Welcome to the Deep Dive. Today we're really
immersing ourselves in the career of American
filmmaker David Lowery. And it's quite a career,
isn't it? Almost. Contradictory. Oh, absolutely.
You used the perfect word, contradictory. It's
like he operates on these two totally different
planes simultaneously. Yeah, like the title,
we were kicking around the sheet ghost and the
dragon. It sort of sums it up perfectly. One
minute, it's this quiet, contemplative, almost
silent figure. And the next, it's this massive,
you know, CGI spectacle. Exactly. So he was born
in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, December 26, 1980. But
he's really built this fascinating duality in
his work. He really has. It's rare, isn't it,
to find someone. who can just slide so easily
between, say, a super intimate micro -budget
indie film. Where he's often editing it himself
deep in the weeds. And then turn around and helm
a huge nine -figure live -action blockbuster
for a studio like Disney. It's quite the balancing
act. It really is. So our mission today, our
deep dive, is basically to unpack that. How does
he do it? How does he maintain what feels like
a very singular personal vision across projects
that are just worlds apart in terms of scale,
budget, audience, everything? Yeah. Tracing that
path from being this like beloved Texas indie
filmmaker. To becoming this trusted director
for massive studio properties. It's a journey.
It is. And we need to figure out, like you said,
how the same filmmaker gives us something as
profoundly quiet and strange as a ghost story
in 2017. Right. Practically no dialogue, just
pure mood and time. And then, you know, just
the year before, in 2016, he delivered Pete's
Dragon, which was this big, warm, critically
acclaimed family film for Disney. And then pivots
again to something like The Green Knight in 2021,
which is this huge, visually stunning, but also
really ambiguous medieval fantasy. That range
is incredible. That's the puzzle, the aha moment
we want to get into. Okay, so where do we start?
To understand the guy directing the dragon, maybe
we need to go back to the roots, the Indy Foundation.
Exactly. Act one, the Indy Foundation and those
formative years. Because the craftsman, the technical
filmmaker, seems key here. So background first.
He's the eldest of nine kids born to Madeline
and Mark Lowry. Nine kids. I know, right? And
when he was seven, the family moved to Irving,
Texas. He went to Irving High School there. Being
the oldest of nine. I mean, you have to imagine
that teaches you something about managing chaos,
maybe. Leading a group. That's a great point.
Film sets are nothing if not managed chaos. And
that hands -on thing, that commitment, it definitely
started early. The sources say he wrote and directed
his first short film, Lullaby, back in 2000.
He was only 19. 19. And already diving in headfirst.
And look at the roles he took on for Lullaby.
It wasn't just writing and directing. No, he
did pretty much everything. Producer, editor,
and director of photography or camera operator.
The whole technical shebang. And that's the blueprint,
isn't it? That deep dive into the actual mechanics
of filmmaking right from the start, being the
editor, being the DP. It gives you a different
understanding for sure. When you're directing
later, even massive stars, you know what the
camera needs, you know how the scene will cut
together because you've done it. Precisely. That
foundational hands -on experience is invaluable.
It's not abstract for him. So that early work
quickly led to his first feature, right? St.
Nick. Came out in 2009. Yep, St. Nick. Following
these two runaway kids who've been abandoned.
And you can already see some themes emerging
there, can't you? Young characters, kind of lost,
searching for something. That sort of melancholy
feel that runs through a lot of his indie work,
often set against that specific... Texas landscape.
Definitely. And St. Nick was crucial for getting
him noticed, especially within that independent
film world, cementing his Texas identity. It
premiered at South by Southwest SXSW. Which is
a huge launching pad, especially for Texas filmmakers.
Absolutely. And it picked up some significant
awards early on. The Texas Filmmaker Award at
the AFI Dallas International Film Festival in
2009 and a special jury award at Sidewalk Film
Festival. So real recognition, not just participation
trophies. The industry was noticing. Yeah, it
signaled, you know, pay attention to this guy.
A distinct voice was emerging. And he was smart
about it, too, strategically. He set up his own
production company, Sailor Bear, just a couple
of years later in 2011. Right, which is a classic
move for filmmakers who want to maintain control,
right? Protect their vision, nurture specific
kinds of stories, and keep that Texas connection
strong. Okay, so St. Nick gets some notice. Sailor
Bear gives him a base. But the real breakout.
the one that put him on the international radar
that has to be Ain't Them Body of Saints, right?
Yeah, absolutely. Ain't Them Body of Saints.
That's where the aesthetic, the Lowry feel, really
clicks into place for a wider audience. And again,
look at his involvement. Writer, director, and
editor. Total control. And this is where he first
teams up with Rooney Mara and Casey Affleck,
who become really important collaborators for
him later on. Key players, definitely. And the
film just exploded onto the festival scene. Nominated
for the Grand Jury Prize at Sundance in 2013.
Which is massive for an indie film. Huge. And
then it immediately went international, competing
in the Critics Week section at the Cannes Film
Festival that same year. That's a serious stamp
of approval. People describe it as like a lyrical
crime story. What does that really mean in terms
of his style? Well, it's not your typical crime
movie, right? He's less interested in the, you
know, the plot mechanics of the crime itself.
It's more about the fallout, the emotional residue,
the longing, the isolation of the characters
afterwards. It's kind of dreamlike. Melancholy.
Exactly. The pacing is very deliberate, often
slow. The camera lingers. The look is very specific
to sort of muted, nostalgic colors. Let's dig
into the influences he mentioned for that film,
because they're quite revealing, I think. He
talked about Claire Dennis's 35 shots of rum.
Right. Very atmospheric, character focused. Robert
Altman's McCabe and Mrs. Miller. The ultimate
revisionist Western. moody complex. And then
Paul Thomas Anderson and David Fincher. Yeah,
that's the fascinating mix, isn't it? You've
got the arthouse moodiness of Dennis and Altman.
Focused on character and atmosphere over plot.
And McCabe especially, using a genre of the Western
to explore something deeper, almost poetic, about
community and failure. Okay, but then you throw
in PTA, who brings that artistry, but often on
a bigger canvas, and especially Fincher. Fincher
means precision, technical control. Razor -sharp
execution. How does that fit into a quiet, atmospheric,
indie -like, ain't -them -body Saints? That's
the key, I think. The Fincher influence isn't
about fast cuts or obvious technical flashiness
here. It's about the control. The meticulous
composition of the shots, even the quiet ones,
the rigid framing sometimes, the carefully managed
color palette, the desaturated, almost antique
look. So he's using Fincher -level precision,
but in service of mood and atmosphere, not necessarily
action or plot propulsion. Exactly. It's technical
rigor used to deepen the emotional impact, the
sense of time and place. And that synthesis atmospheric
storytelling combined with absolute technical
command is precisely what allows him to eventually
make that leap to something enormous. like Pete's
dragon. He already had the control needed for
complex visuals. That makes perfect sense. That
deep technical skill, especially the editing,
it leads us right into act two. Lowry as this
multi -hyphenate craftsman, his editing work,
often for other directors, is almost like a hidden
superpower. It really is. And understand that
parallel career as an editor is crucial, like
you said, to grasp how he controls rhythm. We
saw it on Lullaby, doing everything himself,
but... Editing for others, that's maybe even
more telling about his specific skill set. I
think so. He edited Amy Simons' Sun Don't Shine
in 2012. But the big one, the really defining
one, is probably his work on Shane Carruth's
Upstream Color in 2013. Oh, wow. Yeah, Upstream
Color. That film is an editing challenge, doesn't
even begin to cover it. It's incredibly nonlinear,
fractured. Completely. It basically lives in
the editing. The story, the feeling, the timeline,
it's all constructed or maybe deconstructed in
the edit. He wasn't just assembling. scenes he
was building this intricate temporal mosaic handling
that level of ambiguity the fractional time memory
loops it's incredibly complex you're creating
coherence out of near incoherence finding the
emotional thread through it all and he nailed
it Got nominations for best editing from the
Chicago Critics, LA Critics, the Independent
Spirit Awards. Major recognition for his editing
chops. Absolutely. And then think about it becoming
a critically acclaimed editor known for handling
complex, dislocated timelines. That's the perfect
training ground for tackling the profound time
jumps and the long, static, unsettling takes
in his own future film, A Ghost Story. He had
already mastered manipulating time in the edit
suite. That technical versatility showed up in
his writing too, right? He wasn't just focused
on his own directorial projects. He co -wrote
Pit Stop in 2013 with Yentam. Yeah, another festival
success. Won Best Screenplay at the Nashville
Film Festival. It shows he could collaborate,
serve another director's vision, not just his
own. He wasn't precious about only directing
his own scripts. Okay, let's look at a project
that highlights the bumps in the road, the realities
of Hollywood development, even for a rising talent.
The Yellow Birds. Ah, yes. That's a really interesting
case study. It was announced back at Cannes in
2014, positioned as a pretty big deal for him.
Lowry was set to write and direct the adaptation.
And the source material was significant. Kevin
Power's novel, a National Book Award finalist
in 2012, a serious war story. Definitely signaled
that the industry saw him as capable of handling
heavier, dramatic material, potentially on a
larger scale. That's not quite how it played
out, was it? No. The film eventually got made,
starring Jack Huston, Jennifer Aniston, but it
was directed by Alexander Moores. Lowry still
got the writing credit, but he didn't end up
directing. So what does that tell us about the
process? Well, it just underscores how complicated
feature film development can be, especially when
you move towards bigger budgets or higher profile
source material. There are so many moving parts,
producers, financiers, star attachments. Things
shift. Even for a director with heat coming off
Sundance and Cannes. Exactly. It shows Lowery
was already navigating those tricky studio waters,
learning the system, before he actually directed
his first major studio film. That experience,
even if maybe frustrating at the time, probably
helped prepare him for the leap. Which brings
us perfectly to Act 3, the studio leap, and then
that immediate, almost whiplash -inducing return
to his personal auteur roots. 2016 is the pivotal
year here. He directs Pete's Dragon for Disney.
And what a leap. Going from his usual indie budgets,
which were often under a million dollars, to
a reported $90 million for Pete's Dragon. That's
a different universe. It was a live -action reimagining.
Right. Loosely based on the 77 Disney musical,
he directed and co -wrote it with Toby Halbrooks.
Yeah. And you have to ask, why did Disney choose
him? The guy known for Quiet. melancholic indie
dramas well presumably they didn't just want
a generic kids movie they wanted that heart that
sense of wonder that emotional depth he'd shown
in his other work but applied to their ip and
by all accounts he delivered pete's dragon got
really strong reviews critics praised its sincerity
its visual warmth it wasn't cynical or overloaded
with cgi Just for the sake of it. It even won
that truly moving picture award from the Heartland
Film Festival. So he proved he could handle the
scale, manage the effects, deliver a big family
film, and keep that emotional core intact. Mission
accomplished, you'd think. So logically, the
next step for most directors in that position
would be? Line up the next big studio project,
right? Capitalize on the success. Strike while
the iron's hot. But that's not what Lowry did.
At all. He did the absolute opposite. Almost
like a palate cleanser was needed. This is the
key anecdote, isn't it? The summer of 2016, Pete's
Dragon is releasing, getting good reviews, and
he's secretly shooting a ghost story. Secretly.
The contrast is just mind -boggling. Imagine
the mental shift. Going from a massive set, hundreds
of crew, managing complex visual effects for
a flying dragon. To basically sneaking off to
shoot in a single house, skeleton crew, tiny
budget, with Casey Affleck under a literal white
sheet for most of it. It's almost defiant, isn't
it? A ghost story feels like a deeply personal
statement. Laurie took on directing. writing
and editing again. Total control. And that editing
skill we talked about, honed on things like upstream
color, really came to the forefront again. He
won the Boston Society of Film Critics Award
for Best Editing for A Ghost Story. Because the
editing is the film in many ways. It's all about
time, loss, memory. How do you convey eternity?
or the slow crawl of grief. Through those incredibly
long static takes, right? Where nothing much
happens, but you feel the time passing. Exactly.
He forces you, the viewer, to sit in that stillness,
to feel the ghost waiting, and then bam, a sudden
cut, and you jump decades, centuries even. That
control over duration and temporal shifts is
masterful. He makes the ghost experience feel
both incredibly vast and intensely present. And
he was so invested, he even apparently has a
tiny cameo himself, uncredited, as another ghost
in the background. Huh. Really. Just fully immersed.
It's like he needed to prove, maybe to himself
as much as anyone, yes, I could do the big Disney
movie, but this is also me. This quiet, strange,
personal stuff is still my core. So after that
extreme swing back to micro -budget, where did
he go next? He didn't just stay in the tiny indie
world. No, he found a sort of middle ground,
perhaps. Still personal, still character -driven,
but with a bit more structure and star power.
He directed The Old Man and the Gun in 2018.
Right, with Robert Redford. Playing the real
-life gentleman bank robber Forrest Tucker. Casey
Affleck was in that one, too. Lowery wrote the
screenplay and directed. And it felt gentle,
almost elegiac. Like a tribute not just to this
charming criminal, but maybe to Redford himself
and that era of filmmaking he represented. Lowry
applied his signature lyrical reflective style
to a true story, a biopic framework. And it worked
critically too, right? Oh yeah. Got a Best Film
nomination at the London Film Festival, Best
Adapted Screenplay Nom from the San Diego Critics.
It showed he could bring his distinct sensibility
to genre material, to biographical stories, without
losing his voice. So the pattern emerges. use
the clout from the big project to get the personal
one made, and use the artistry of the personal
one to keep the studios interested in your unique
vision for their bigger project. Exactly. It's
a symbiotic relationship he seems to have mastered.
Okay, act four. This feels like where he really
starts synthesizing those two sides, the epic
scale and the introspective mood, with The Green
Knight in 2021. Yeah, The Green Knight, a full
-blown medieval fantasy epic. That's a big swing.
adapting a really famous but also quite strange
and difficult Arthurian poem, Sir Gawain and
the Green Knight. Massive undertaking. And look
who's starring. Dev Patel, Alicia Vikander, Joel
Edgerton, big names, and Lowry. He's back in
full multi -hyphenate mode. Director, writer,
editor, and producer. Applying that indie filmmaker,
old control approach to this huge mythological
canvas. And what's fascinating is how he approaches
it. It's not a typical fantasy action movie.
He takes this epic quest narrative and infuses
it with that same deliberate dreamlike pacing,
that same thematic ambiguity we saw in a code
story. Right. It's less about the sword fights,
more about the psychology. Honor, temptation,
facing mortality, the meaning of chivalry. He
makes the epic feel internal, introspective.
Turning the cosmic into something intimate. The
film's release itself got complicated, though.
Ah, right. COVID. It was meant to premiere at
SXSW in March 2020. Which got canceled. So it
didn't actually come out until July 2021. But
the reaction when it landed. was pretty fantastic.
Especially praise for the visuals, the unique
style. Racked up nominations, Best Director,
Best Adapted Screenplay from Chicago Critics,
nods at the Critics' Choice Super Awards for
Fantasy. And around the same time, he was still
doing smaller things, too. There was an anthology
film. Yeah, The Year of the Everlasting Storm,
also in 2021. It premiered at Cannes. A collection
of shorts made during the pandemic. Lowry contributed
a segment called Dig Up My Darling. These pandemic
projects often feel very raw, very essential.
Stripped down filmmaking. And meanwhile, the
Disney relationship was still active. Oh, yeah.
After Pete's Dragon proved he could deliver for
them, they tapped him again for another major
IP. He actually signed on back in 2016 to direct
a live action take on Peter Pan. Which eventually
became Peter Pan and Wendy, released on Disney
Plus in 2023. Right. He directed and co -wrote
that one, too. Right. With Alexander Maloney
as Peter, Jude Law as Captain Hook, Ever Anderson
as Wendy. So. Doing a second huge Disney film
really cements that trust doesn't it. They clearly
believe he can handle their biggest properties
deliver the spectacle but also bring that emotional
depth that unique perspective. Absolutely. He
proved he could thread that needle. And his versatility
extends beyond just film features. He's directed
television, too. Right. He did an episode of
Rectify back in 2014, which was a very atmospheric,
character -driven show, fit his style well. And
a couple of episodes of Strange Angel in 2018,
where he's also an executive producer on those,
plus something quite different. The National
Geographic thing. Yeah, a 2017 episode of the
series Breakthrough. His was called Addiction.
a psychedelic cure so delving into documentary
science social issues showed a real breadth of
interest beyond fiction and the most recent biggest
mainstream tv gig star wars right directing two
episodes of the upcoming star wars skeleton crew
series set for 2024 that's Well, that's about
as big as IP gets. Definitely. The episode titles
mentioned are way, way out past the barrier and
very interesting as an astrogation problem. Which
sounds kind of perfect for him, actually. One
suggests vast cosmic exploration. The other implies
intricate technical problem solving. That duality
again. Wonder and rigor. It's the ultimate validation,
isn't it, being trusted with Star Wars? Pretty
much. Okay, so that brings us towards the end,
Act V. Let's touch on the personal context that
might inform all this and look ahead. Right.
Personal Life Details married fellow filmmaker
Augustin Frizzell in 2010, and importantly, they
live in Dallas. He's maintained that connection
to Texas, to that indie film scene there. That
grounding seems really important to his identity.
And then there are the details about his core
beliefs. He identifies as an atheist. And he's
been a vegan since around 1996, so for decades.
Yeah, these aren't casual choices. Being an atheist,
being a committed vegan for that long, it suggests
a very considered, very disciplined personal
philosophy. A consistency in his own life. And
maybe that consistency, that discipline fuels
his commitment to supporting other independent
filmmakers. He does a lot of executive producing.
He really does. It's like he's actively using
the platform and maybe the resources he gets
from the bigger studio gigs to lift up the next
wave of indie voices, paying it forward. Ensuring
that the kind of filmmaking that launched him
continues to thrive. We see his EP credits on
films like Never Going Back. That's Juneteenth.
We're all going to the World's Fair. Really interesting,
diverse projects. That kind of mentorship, that
support for the ecosystem is huge. He's not just
taking, he's giving back to that indie world.
So looking ahead, what's next on his slate? The
big one seems to be Mother Mary. Ah yes, Mother
Mary. For A24, which, you know, A24 is pretty
much synonymous with director -driven, artistically
ambitious films. Feels like a perfect home for
him. And this project sounds, well, it sounds
like it could bring everything together. It's
described as a music drama. Starring Anne Hathaway
and Michaela Cole. I mean, that's serious star
power. And Lowry is set to write, direct, and
produce back in that full -control, multi -hyphenate
role. But the really intriguing part, for me
at least, is the music collaboration. Jack Antonoff
and Charlie XCX are writing original songs for
it. Okay, that's a combination. Lowry's quiet
visual poetry and emotional depth, mixed with
Antonoff's often maximalist pop production and
Charlie XCX's edgy, futuristic pop sound. Right.
It suggests something really ambitious, maybe
trying to bridge that gap between high art aesthetics
and mainstream pop culture, which perfectly mirrors
Lowry's whole career duality. High art meets
high pop. It sounds potentially amazing, a complex
drama about celebrity, music, maybe faith or
fandom, given the title, but with A -list talent
and cutting -edge music. It feels like it could
be a combination, pulling together everything
he's learned, moving between the micro -budget
personal films and the massive studio spectacles.
Visually stunning, emotionally complex, maybe
culturally resonant, too. Definitely one to watch.
So, wrapping this up. We've explored this really
remarkable career trajectory, this constant,
seemingly deliberate dance between extremes.
Yeah, the filmmaker who can be editing a quiet,
intense indie film about grief and time one year.
Earning critical editing nominations for it.
And simultaneously be prepping or directing a
massive Disney movie like Peter Pan and Wendy.
it really demonstrates this rare mastery of both
intimacy and scale he can handle the intricate
editing of something like upstream color and
the mythological weight and vfx demands of the
green knight and somehow through it all Maintain
that signature style, that slow, contemplative,
visually precise, emotionally resonant feel,
that adaptability, that versatility feels very
modern. Maybe it's the blueprint for how an auteur
survives and thrives today. You have to be able
to navigate all these different levels. And for
you, the listener, the takeaway seems clear.
That grounding in fundamental craft, especially
something like editing, combined with a really
strong, personal, consistent vision, that's what
builds the trust needed to command projects at
every scale. Absolutely. That blend of quiet
contemplation and big ambition is so unique.
But let's leave you with one final thought to
chew on, connecting his personal context back
to the work itself. Okay. So we noted he identifies
as an atheist, has these long -held, disciplined
personal beliefs like veganism, a secular worldview,
essentially. Right. So how does that specific,
grounded, secular perspective fuel his film's
relentless obsession with, well, with... The
big eternal, almost spiritual questions. That's
a great question. Because his most personal films,
like A Ghost Story or ambitious ones like The
Green Knight, they dive headfirst into themes
of time, mortality, legacy, the search for meaning.
What endures after death? How does memory function
across centuries? How do you live a meaningful
life in the face of oblivion? These are huge,
cosmic, almost religious questions. But explores
through a lens that, based on his own stated
beliefs, doesn't rely on traditional religious
answers or supernatural frameworks. Exactly.
It suggests... His exploration is profoundly
humanistic, maybe existential. It's grounded
in observation in the human condition, maybe
in a kind of disciplined, objective look at existence
rather than faith. So the ghost in a ghost story
isn't waiting for heaven or hell. He's just waiting.
anchored to a place, watching time erase things.
Gawain in The Green Knight isn't necessarily
guided by God. He's wrestling with human codes
of honor, fear, desire. That tension, exploring
these vast, timeless, spiritual -seeming questions
from a grounded, disciplined, perhaps secular
perspective, that might be what gives his work
its unique power, its gravity. A secular spirituality,
maybe? Finding the profound and the tangible
in the passage of time itself and human connection
and memory, rather than looking outwards or upwards.
perhaps it's definitely something to think about
as you watch his films that consistent personal
philosophy wrestling with these epic eternal
themes from the quiet vigil of a sheet ghost
to the soaring flight of a dragon a fascinating
contradiction to ponder and that's our deep dive
for today on david lowry thanks for joining us