WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.640 Welcome to the Deep Dive. So if you're looking 00:00:02.640 --> 00:00:07.559 for a complete, coherent, easily marketable brand 00:00:07.559 --> 00:00:10.259 identity. Yeah. Well, you've definitely come 00:00:10.259 --> 00:00:12.119 to the wrong place today. That's putting it mildly. 00:00:12.480 --> 00:00:14.359 We're basically trying to shortcut your understanding 00:00:14.359 --> 00:00:16.559 of Joseph Will Oldham. He's an American singer 00:00:16.559 --> 00:00:19.160 -songwriter and actor too. And what really defines 00:00:19.160 --> 00:00:22.739 him is how he... intentionally uses confusion, 00:00:22.960 --> 00:00:25.339 almost strategically, you know? Yeah, that's 00:00:25.339 --> 00:00:27.760 a perfect way to frame it. We are diving deep 00:00:27.760 --> 00:00:30.199 into the career of someone who's incredibly prolific, 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:33.100 been active since 93 right up to now, but also 00:00:33.100 --> 00:00:35.939 like deliberately elusive. Right. Our mission 00:00:35.939 --> 00:00:38.100 really is to unpack what we're calling the pseudonym 00:00:38.100 --> 00:00:41.759 paradox. It's this idea that for him, maybe stability 00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:44.869 and connection actually come through. Constant 00:00:44.869 --> 00:00:47.270 instability in disguise. Strange, right? It really 00:00:47.270 --> 00:00:50.130 is. So born Joseph Will Oldham, January 15, 1970, 00:00:50.530 --> 00:00:53.149 Louisville, Kentucky. His musical identity is 00:00:53.149 --> 00:00:56.070 built on these, well, shifting sands. Before 00:00:56.070 --> 00:00:57.689 we even get to the music itself, just look at 00:00:57.689 --> 00:01:00.109 the names he used early on. Especially in those 00:01:00.109 --> 00:01:03.530 foundational years like 93 to 97. We've got Palace, 00:01:03.729 --> 00:01:05.909 Palace Brothers, Palace Songs, Palace Music. 00:01:06.209 --> 00:01:08.469 And that was just the beginning. Just scratching 00:01:08.469 --> 00:01:11.629 the surface. And all of that confusion eventually 00:01:11.629 --> 00:01:14.540 led to the name that's stuck. The one that feels 00:01:14.540 --> 00:01:17.439 almost mythic now, Bonnie Prince Billy, which 00:01:17.439 --> 00:01:21.000 he adopted in 98. OK. But to really get why he 00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:23.019 needed all these masks, these different names, 00:01:23.079 --> 00:01:25.120 kind of have to look at his background. It's 00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:27.439 maybe not what you'd expect. It's not the typical 00:01:27.439 --> 00:01:29.920 rock star origin story. Not at all. This wasn't 00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:31.959 someone who dropped out to go on tour. He came 00:01:31.959 --> 00:01:34.629 from a really thoughtful pre -academic. Background. 00:01:34.709 --> 00:01:37.370 He graduated from J. Graham Brown School back 00:01:37.370 --> 00:01:40.269 in 88. And while he was, you know, trying out 00:01:40.269 --> 00:01:42.409 acting roles in places like Brooklyn, L .A., 00:01:42.409 --> 00:01:45.150 Bloomington, he was also attending Brown University. 00:01:46.030 --> 00:01:47.849 Sporadically, it sounds like, but still. Right. 00:01:47.909 --> 00:01:49.870 Dipping in and out. And his family environment, 00:01:49.969 --> 00:01:51.670 that was pretty intellectual, too. His mom was 00:01:51.670 --> 00:01:54.090 a teacher, an artist, his dad, an attorney and 00:01:54.090 --> 00:01:57.609 photographer. So the artistic roots are definitely 00:01:57.609 --> 00:02:01.030 there, but maybe with a more academic approach. 00:02:01.549 --> 00:02:03.629 Which leads perfectly into this key little detail, 00:02:03.769 --> 00:02:05.730 something that really sets the tone for his whole 00:02:05.730 --> 00:02:07.849 career, I think. The origin of the music itself. 00:02:08.129 --> 00:02:11.270 Exactly. His first real move into making music 00:02:11.270 --> 00:02:15.009 wasn't like starting a garage band. It actually 00:02:15.009 --> 00:02:19.090 began as a project, an academic project for his 00:02:19.090 --> 00:02:22.150 ethnomusicology professor at Brown, Jeff Todd 00:02:22.150 --> 00:02:25.120 Titan. Which is fascinating, isn't it? It suggests 00:02:25.120 --> 00:02:28.500 right from the start, he saw making a song or 00:02:28.500 --> 00:02:31.860 an album or even an artistic identity as maybe 00:02:31.860 --> 00:02:34.020 as much about intellectual structure, a kind 00:02:34.020 --> 00:02:37.219 of study and performance and folk tradition as 00:02:37.219 --> 00:02:40.060 it was about just raw personal expression. Yeah, 00:02:40.120 --> 00:02:42.360 it feels much more considered than just, oh, 00:02:42.439 --> 00:02:43.819 we got a new drummer, let's change the name. 00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:46.340 This feels like a deliberate strategy, almost 00:02:46.340 --> 00:02:47.960 like controlling the narrative from the start. 00:02:48.060 --> 00:02:50.199 So for you, the listener, getting the why behind 00:02:50.199 --> 00:02:52.620 all these disguises, that's really the key. to 00:02:52.620 --> 00:02:54.740 unlocking his entire body of work. Absolutely. 00:02:54.759 --> 00:02:56.979 That intentional rationale, that's the philosophical 00:02:56.979 --> 00:02:59.379 core we really need to dig into first. If you 00:02:59.379 --> 00:03:01.060 look at that initial period, the palace era, 00:03:01.180 --> 00:03:05.219 93 to 97, it was just chaotic. Gizzying, yeah. 00:03:05.599 --> 00:03:08.400 Palace, palace brothers, palace songs, palace 00:03:08.400 --> 00:03:11.620 music. If you were trying to follow him back 00:03:11.620 --> 00:03:14.340 then as a fan, you'd just feel completely lost, 00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:16.979 I imagine. And he knew that. It wasn't an accident. 00:03:17.020 --> 00:03:19.300 He was consciously trying to signal that things 00:03:19.300 --> 00:03:22.080 weren't continuous. Precisely. His fundamental 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:24.979 belief was that different records, records with 00:03:24.979 --> 00:03:27.240 different themes, different sounds, and maybe 00:03:27.240 --> 00:03:30.699 most importantly, different collaborators, they 00:03:30.699 --> 00:03:33.240 just shouldn't be seen as coming from the same 00:03:33.240 --> 00:03:36.060 band, the same unit. That's such a direct challenge 00:03:36.060 --> 00:03:38.039 to how the music industry usually works, isn't 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:40.759 it? Totally. Most bands, they find a name, they 00:03:40.759 --> 00:03:43.219 stick with it, and that name becomes a brand 00:03:43.219 --> 00:03:45.960 that promises something consistent. Oldham just 00:03:45.960 --> 00:03:48.280 threw that whole idea out. He basically said, 00:03:48.360 --> 00:03:50.919 look, if I put out a record under one name, you're 00:03:50.919 --> 00:03:52.659 going to expect the same people, the same kind 00:03:52.659 --> 00:03:54.960 of sound next time. Right. But he wasn't doing 00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:57.300 that. He was constantly cycling through musicians, 00:03:57.560 --> 00:04:00.719 dozens of them. One year it might be super lo 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:03.280 -fi acoustic stuff. The next it's louder, full 00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:05.780 band rock. So the name change was almost like 00:04:05.780 --> 00:04:08.539 a warning label. Exactly. He felt he had to change 00:04:08.539 --> 00:04:10.979 the name so the audience would know right away, 00:04:11.120 --> 00:04:14.139 OK, this is a fresh project. It might be his 00:04:14.139 --> 00:04:16.699 writing, but maybe not much else is the same. 00:04:16.860 --> 00:04:19.220 It's almost anti -commercial, really. Designed 00:04:19.220 --> 00:04:22.839 purely for artistic freedom. Absolutely. If you 00:04:22.839 --> 00:04:25.579 bought There Is No One, What Will Take Care of 00:04:25.579 --> 00:04:28.620 You by the Palace Brothers in 93, you shouldn't 00:04:28.620 --> 00:04:31.459 be shocked when Viva Last Blues by Palace Music 00:04:31.459 --> 00:04:34.480 comes out in 95 and sounds completely different. 00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:37.720 The name change itself was the heads up, like 00:04:37.720 --> 00:04:41.720 caveat emptor, or maybe caveat expectator. Let 00:04:41.720 --> 00:04:44.019 the listener beware of their own expectations. 00:04:44.420 --> 00:04:46.980 Ah, yeah. It gave him total permission to just 00:04:46.980 --> 00:04:49.139 reinvent his recording style, the instruments. 00:04:49.529 --> 00:04:51.889 Everything with each release. Total freedom. 00:04:52.009 --> 00:04:54.470 That intellectual side shows up even in the choice 00:04:54.470 --> 00:04:56.089 of the word palace, doesn't it? It sounds so 00:04:56.089 --> 00:04:59.689 grand, but the music often feels quite grounded 00:04:59.689 --> 00:05:02.129 or even raw. Well, there's a great little anecdote 00:05:02.129 --> 00:05:04.050 about that. He mentioned, I think it was in a 00:05:04.050 --> 00:05:06.709 95 KCRW interview, that one of the early names 00:05:06.709 --> 00:05:09.269 he used, Palace Flophouse. Okay. That was directly 00:05:09.269 --> 00:05:11.790 inspired by reading John Steinbeck's Cannery 00:05:11.790 --> 00:05:14.750 Row. Ah, okay. Makes sense. Yeah, that book, 00:05:14.769 --> 00:05:18.350 you know, it's all about these societal outcasts, 00:05:18.350 --> 00:05:20.870 drifters squatting in this rundown old building. 00:05:21.009 --> 00:05:23.009 It's kind of a perfect metaphor, isn't it? The 00:05:23.009 --> 00:05:25.790 structure that maybe used to be grand, but now 00:05:25.790 --> 00:05:27.850 it's crumbling and it's housing the shifting 00:05:27.850 --> 00:05:30.769 group of artistic transients. That fits perfectly. 00:05:31.009 --> 00:05:33.629 So, okay, after years of this deliberate chaos, 00:05:33.750 --> 00:05:37.589 this flux, why did he land on Bonnie Prince Billy 00:05:37.589 --> 00:05:41.550 in 1998? Why did that one stick? Why trade the 00:05:41.550 --> 00:05:43.860 constant change for something that felt... Well, 00:05:43.980 --> 00:05:46.000 more permanent. Well, I think the permanence 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:48.040 is maybe part of the construction itself. It's 00:05:48.040 --> 00:05:50.100 like he was building something designed for mythic 00:05:50.100 --> 00:05:53.100 endurance this time. And the name itself, it 00:05:53.100 --> 00:05:55.860 seems like he pulled it together from three pretty 00:05:55.860 --> 00:05:57.800 distinct inspirations. Like he was searching 00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:00.819 for something with deep roots in history and 00:06:00.819 --> 00:06:03.480 folklore. Okay, what are the layers? So the first 00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:06.459 layer, he said, is historical. He liked the mellifluous 00:06:06.459 --> 00:06:08.319 sound of Bonnie Prince Charlie. The Scottish 00:06:08.319 --> 00:06:10.839 claimant to the throne. That's the one. The romantic 00:06:10.839 --> 00:06:14.430 figure. The failed rebellion. brings this sense 00:06:14.430 --> 00:06:18.410 of like royalty but also tragedy yeah a sound 00:06:18.410 --> 00:06:21.110 that's elegant but also kind of sad which definitely 00:06:21.110 --> 00:06:23.680 fits a lot of his music exactly Then the second 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:26.819 layer, it's a nod to music history, specifically 00:06:26.819 --> 00:06:29.699 American performers. He mentioned thinking about 00:06:29.699 --> 00:06:32.100 the structure of names like Nat King Cole. Oh, 00:06:32.180 --> 00:06:34.240 interesting. Like the rhythm and weight of the 00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:37.100 name itself. Yeah, that careful, balanced cadence. 00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:39.860 It shows an appreciation for how performance 00:06:39.860 --> 00:06:43.079 names can sound inherently American, almost build 00:06:43.079 --> 00:06:46.699 on rhythm. Okay, so royalty, musical structure. 00:06:47.120 --> 00:06:49.420 What's the third? The third one connects it firmly 00:06:49.420 --> 00:06:52.740 to American outlaw mythology. He often suggested 00:06:52.740 --> 00:06:54.300 this might have been more subconscious, but it 00:06:54.300 --> 00:06:56.879 links to William Bonney. Billy the Kid. Billy 00:06:56.879 --> 00:06:59.319 the Kid. So in one name, Monty Prince, Billy, 00:06:59.420 --> 00:07:02.339 you've got Scottish royalty, classic American 00:07:02.339 --> 00:07:04.620 performance structure and a legendary American 00:07:04.620 --> 00:07:07.779 outlaw. Wow. So the name itself suggests someone 00:07:07.779 --> 00:07:11.569 who's both like elevated, but also a rebel. A 00:07:11.569 --> 00:07:14.230 romantic figure outside the usual rule. Precisely. 00:07:14.230 --> 00:07:16.370 Outside the law, whether that's society's law 00:07:16.370 --> 00:07:18.970 or music's law. But the really crucial part here, 00:07:19.089 --> 00:07:22.040 the so what. for you listening, is why go to 00:07:22.040 --> 00:07:24.259 all this trouble? He actually gave a pretty clear 00:07:24.259 --> 00:07:26.660 reason for the pseudonym's main purpose, didn't 00:07:26.660 --> 00:07:28.699 he? He did, and this is really the core artistic 00:07:28.699 --> 00:07:31.500 commitment, I think. He explained that the name 00:07:31.500 --> 00:07:34.300 allows both the audience and the performer to 00:07:34.300 --> 00:07:36.220 have a relationship with the performer that is 00:07:36.220 --> 00:07:39.680 valid and unbreakable. Okay, valid and unbreakable. 00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:41.579 What does that actually mean in practice? What 00:07:41.579 --> 00:07:43.319 kind of relationship is that? It's basically 00:07:43.319 --> 00:07:46.560 a protection mechanism. Think about it. If he 00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:49.579 releases incredibly personal, vulnerable songs 00:07:49.579 --> 00:07:53.639 under his real name, Will Oldham, then maybe 00:07:53.639 --> 00:07:55.920 any personal stuff that happens to Will Oldham 00:07:55.920 --> 00:07:58.519 in his life, failures, changes, just growing 00:07:58.519 --> 00:08:01.620 up, could potentially mess with how the audience 00:08:01.620 --> 00:08:03.600 hears the art. Right, the music gets tangled 00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:05.639 up with the biography. Exactly. The music becomes 00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:08.220 burdened by the man. So the pseudonym, Bonnie 00:08:08.220 --> 00:08:11.019 Prince Billy, acts like a shield. It protects 00:08:11.019 --> 00:08:13.879 the pure artistic project from the everyday realities 00:08:13.879 --> 00:08:16.560 of his private life. So Bonnie Prince Billy is 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:19.079 like this mythic character. Sort of an avatar, 00:08:19.259 --> 00:08:22.860 yeah. A consistent artistic lens. The audience 00:08:22.860 --> 00:08:25.819 isn't really asked to relate to Joseph Will Oldham, 00:08:25.939 --> 00:08:28.800 the guy who pays taxes or gets married. They're 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:31.600 asked to relate to this persona who deals in 00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:34.519 these haunted melodies and big existential questions. 00:08:34.860 --> 00:08:36.919 It creates a space where the emotional truth 00:08:36.919 --> 00:08:40.279 of the song can exist on its own, untainted by 00:08:40.279 --> 00:08:42.759 the singer's personal life, making that relationship, 00:08:42.940 --> 00:08:45.340 as he says, unbreakable. That's the idea. It 00:08:45.340 --> 00:08:47.320 keeps the focus on the art. That distinction 00:08:47.320 --> 00:08:49.539 focusing on the project over the person that 00:08:49.539 --> 00:08:52.600 seems to run through everything he does. So now 00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:54.220 we kind of get the shifting identities. Let's 00:08:54.220 --> 00:08:56.419 talk about the music itself, the actual sound, 00:08:56.460 --> 00:08:58.779 which seems just as contradictory as the name 00:08:58.779 --> 00:09:01.019 sometimes. Yeah, the sound is definitely defined 00:09:01.019 --> 00:09:03.419 by its rawness, its refusal to just settle into 00:09:03.419 --> 00:09:05.879 one thing. Critics often point to this foundation 00:09:05.879 --> 00:09:08.759 in like a do -it -yourself punk aesthetic and 00:09:08.759 --> 00:09:11.419 blunt honesty. Even when it's acoustic folk music. 00:09:11.879 --> 00:09:15.120 especially then sometimes there's often this 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:19.039 lo -fi immediacy to the recordings it feels intentionally 00:09:19.039 --> 00:09:20.879 stripped down you know like they're deliberately 00:09:20.879 --> 00:09:23.279 avoiding polish to focus purely on the emotion 00:09:23.279 --> 00:09:25.200 and the lyric and the melody it connects directly 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:28.340 back to that self -reliant vibe of 80s punk i 00:09:28.340 --> 00:09:32.259 think and the result is this huge mix of genres 00:09:32.259 --> 00:09:34.360 that people try to pin on him it tells you right 00:09:34.360 --> 00:09:37.659 there he resists easy labels we see things like 00:09:37.659 --> 00:09:41.320 country rock freak folk Gothic country. Lo -fi 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:44.559 indie folk, alternative country. Yeah, the list 00:09:44.559 --> 00:09:47.139 is long. It's a sprawling catalog of influences. 00:09:47.620 --> 00:09:50.159 It really points to a deep knowledge and appreciation 00:09:50.159 --> 00:09:52.399 for the whole history of American roots music. 00:09:52.580 --> 00:09:55.139 But it's always delivered with this kind of modern, 00:09:55.299 --> 00:09:58.559 often unsettling edge. If you listen closely, 00:09:58.759 --> 00:10:02.059 the themes keep coming back. mortality, moral 00:10:02.059 --> 00:10:04.639 ambiguity, these stark rural landscapes. Which 00:10:04.639 --> 00:10:06.759 explains that very specific description you sometimes 00:10:06.759 --> 00:10:09.860 see. Appalachian post -punk solipsist. Right. 00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:11.980 It sounds like a mouthful, doesn't it? It really 00:10:11.980 --> 00:10:13.960 does. Can we break that down? What does Appalachian 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:16.019 post -punk solipsist actually capture when you 00:10:16.019 --> 00:10:18.159 put it all together? Okay, yeah. It actually 00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:20.700 synthesizes it really well. The Appalachian part, 00:10:20.799 --> 00:10:22.820 that's pretty straightforward. It points to his 00:10:22.820 --> 00:10:26.419 Kentucky roots, his use of folk and country structures, 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:28.659 you know, the haunted sounding melodies, traditional 00:10:28.659 --> 00:10:31.559 instruments sometimes, the storytelling style 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:34.019 common in Southern music. Got it. And post -punk. 00:10:34.350 --> 00:10:37.690 That captures the recording style, the raw, maybe 00:10:37.690 --> 00:10:41.129 anti -establishment feel. It's that lo -fi aesthetic 00:10:41.129 --> 00:10:44.009 we mentioned, the emotional immediacy resisting 00:10:44.009 --> 00:10:46.830 that slick commercial production sound. Okay. 00:10:47.090 --> 00:10:50.549 Appalachian post -punk and solipsist. Yeah. That 00:10:50.549 --> 00:10:52.230 feels like the most abstract part. That ties 00:10:52.230 --> 00:10:54.269 right back to the pseudonym, actually. Solipsism, 00:10:54.330 --> 00:10:57.090 philosophically, is the idea that only one's 00:10:57.090 --> 00:10:59.809 own mind is sure to exist. In his songwriting, 00:10:59.929 --> 00:11:02.940 it kind of translates to this. intensely personal 00:11:02.940 --> 00:11:05.919 almost sealed off focus the lyrics are often 00:11:05.919 --> 00:11:08.399 deeply introspective dealing with these internal 00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:11.419 psychological worlds relationships defined purely 00:11:11.419 --> 00:11:14.240 by the individual's viewpoint a lot of existential 00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:17.620 dread the pseudonym the prince acts as the barrier 00:11:17.620 --> 00:11:20.960 that allows this intensely personal solipsistic 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:23.960 stuff to come out without maybe implicating the 00:11:23.960 --> 00:11:26.419 man will oldham in that extreme vulnerability 00:11:26.419 --> 00:11:30.289 the character speaks the difficult truths That 00:11:30.289 --> 00:11:32.909 intensity is definitely amplified by his voice. 00:11:33.210 --> 00:11:35.830 It's instantly recognizable, but it's not technically 00:11:35.830 --> 00:11:38.049 powerful, is it? It's actually quite fragile. 00:11:38.250 --> 00:11:40.429 Yeah, fragile is a good word. It often gets described 00:11:40.429 --> 00:11:43.190 as like a fragile sort of warble frittering around 00:11:43.190 --> 00:11:45.570 haunted melodies. It's incredibly expressive 00:11:45.570 --> 00:11:47.730 because it's vulnerable. It doesn't sound like 00:11:47.730 --> 00:11:49.769 a voice that should be tackling these huge themes, 00:11:49.850 --> 00:11:52.590 but it does with this unnerving conviction. It 00:11:52.590 --> 00:11:55.129 makes you lean in, you know, to catch the lyrics, 00:11:55.210 --> 00:11:57.210 which are often really complex and literary. 00:11:57.799 --> 00:12:00.840 His discography is just huge. But if someone 00:12:00.840 --> 00:12:02.759 wants the essential starting points, the albums 00:12:02.759 --> 00:12:05.299 that critics consistently rate highly, where 00:12:05.299 --> 00:12:07.830 should they look? OK, yeah, the roadmap. You 00:12:07.830 --> 00:12:10.230 absolutely have to start in the palace era. There 00:12:10.230 --> 00:12:12.710 is no one what will take care of you from 93 00:12:12.710 --> 00:12:15.129 under the palace brother's name. That's foundational. 00:12:15.190 --> 00:12:18.350 Right. Then you see the evolution with Viva Las 00:12:18.350 --> 00:12:22.129 Blues in 95, credited to palace music. That shows 00:12:22.129 --> 00:12:24.669 his first big shift towards fuller arrangements. 00:12:24.950 --> 00:12:28.269 OK. And then the essential Bonnie Prince Billy 00:12:28.269 --> 00:12:30.549 album, the one often called his masterpiece, 00:12:30.830 --> 00:12:34.710 is I See a Darkness from 1999. Right. The title 00:12:34.710 --> 00:12:37.399 track, everyone. knows exactly those three albums 00:12:37.399 --> 00:12:40.019 together give you a pretty concise history of 00:12:40.019 --> 00:12:42.539 how his sound developed right through the 90s 00:12:42.539 --> 00:12:44.340 another defining thing about his output is how 00:12:44.340 --> 00:12:47.340 much he collaborates which again seemed to reinforce 00:12:47.340 --> 00:12:49.960 that idea that the project is bigger than just 00:12:49.960 --> 00:12:52.600 him he doesn't only make solo records no his 00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:54.840 collaborative albums are crucial like his partnership 00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:56.940 with the guitarist matt sweeney they did super 00:12:56.940 --> 00:12:59.000 wolf together back in 2005 which was amazing 00:12:59.440 --> 00:13:01.759 So good. And that partnership was so strong, 00:13:01.779 --> 00:13:04.000 they actually came back and did a sequel, Superwolf 00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:07.460 again, 16 years later in 2021. Those records 00:13:07.460 --> 00:13:10.139 really show a darker, more electric side of his 00:13:10.139 --> 00:13:13.639 writing. Sweeney's guitar work, it's so precise, 00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:16.899 a little eerie sometimes. It's the perfect counterpoint 00:13:16.899 --> 00:13:19.419 to Oldham's voice. And he takes those collaborations 00:13:19.419 --> 00:13:21.500 into really different territory too, doesn't 00:13:21.500 --> 00:13:24.220 he? bringing his folk thing into unexpected genres. 00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:26.759 Yeah, the Tortoise collaboration is a great example. 00:13:26.899 --> 00:13:29.799 In 2006, he teamed up with Tortoise, the legendary 00:13:29.799 --> 00:13:33.059 experimental post -rock band from Chicago, for 00:13:33.059 --> 00:13:35.299 an album called The Brave and the Bold. What 00:13:35.299 --> 00:13:37.259 was that one like? What's fascinating is it was 00:13:37.259 --> 00:13:39.659 entirely a covers album. It was a chance for 00:13:39.659 --> 00:13:42.259 him to reinterpret songs by artists ranging from 00:13:42.259 --> 00:13:44.840 Richard Young's to, believe it or not, Devo. 00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:47.700 Devo, wow. Yeah. It's a perfect example of letting 00:13:47.700 --> 00:13:50.039 the collaborators dictate the context and the 00:13:50.039 --> 00:13:53.240 sound, even if it pushes him way outside of traditional 00:13:53.240 --> 00:13:55.720 folk. It's about the project. And more recently, 00:13:55.720 --> 00:13:58.220 he joined forces with another songwriter known 00:13:58.220 --> 00:14:01.070 for kind of poetic, mysterious work. Right. The 00:14:01.070 --> 00:14:03.450 2021 album with Bill Callahan, Blind Date Party, 00:14:03.570 --> 00:14:05.210 that's another highlight. They both have that 00:14:05.210 --> 00:14:07.950 really literate, philosophical style. And seeing 00:14:07.950 --> 00:14:10.470 them work together, often covering other artists' 00:14:10.590 --> 00:14:13.350 songs again, it just underlines his focus on 00:14:13.350 --> 00:14:15.730 conversation and synthesis, not just his own 00:14:15.730 --> 00:14:18.649 brand. So he collaborates outwardly. But he also 00:14:18.649 --> 00:14:21.009 seems to collaborate with himself, turning his 00:14:21.009 --> 00:14:24.169 own back catalog into new material. This is where 00:14:24.169 --> 00:14:26.210 the name thing gets even more complicated. Those 00:14:26.210 --> 00:14:28.190 reworking albums are really interesting, almost 00:14:28.190 --> 00:14:31.909 like philosophical exercises. In 2004, he released 00:14:31.909 --> 00:14:35.330 Sing's Greatest Palace Music. He took those early, 00:14:35.389 --> 00:14:38.049 really raw lo -fi palace songs and re -recorded 00:14:38.049 --> 00:14:40.470 them, but this time with a more polished, considered 00:14:40.470 --> 00:14:43.470 approach, and importantly, under the established 00:14:43.470 --> 00:14:46.309 Bonnie Prince Billy name. So the name dictated 00:14:46.309 --> 00:14:48.840 the style of the reworking. Seems like it. And 00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:50.700 then he did something similar again, but switching 00:14:50.700 --> 00:14:52.539 the name yet again. Using his birth name this 00:14:52.539 --> 00:14:55.179 time. Exactly. For the 2018 album Songs of Love 00:14:55.179 --> 00:14:57.720 and Horror, he revisited material again, but 00:14:57.720 --> 00:15:00.840 released it explicitly as Will Oldham. That feels 00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:03.279 really significant, given everything we've said 00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:06.120 about the pseudonym being the unbreakable performer 00:15:06.120 --> 00:15:08.700 contract. It is hugely significant. Releasing 00:15:08.700 --> 00:15:10.720 some of his most intimate material under his 00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:13.159 given name suggests that maybe, sometimes, the 00:15:13.159 --> 00:15:15.720 mask does come off. Maybe the relationship he 00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:18.019 wants with that material or at that moment is 00:15:18.019 --> 00:15:20.600 different, perhaps more vulnerable, more direct, 00:15:20.740 --> 00:15:23.620 less wrapped in myth. Like, the man is finally 00:15:23.620 --> 00:15:25.919 ready to own the songs that the prince first 00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:28.460 sang. When an artist operates so far outside 00:15:28.460 --> 00:15:30.840 the mainstream, like he'd does, often the real 00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:32.879 measure of their impact is how they influence 00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:35.179 other artists, right? And Oldham's reach seems 00:15:35.179 --> 00:15:37.980 massive. It crosses genres, generations. It really 00:15:37.980 --> 00:15:40.559 does. And the biggest moment, the one that undeniably 00:15:40.559 --> 00:15:42.860 brought his work to a much wider audience, was 00:15:42.860 --> 00:15:45.159 the Johnny Cash cover. I see a darkness. Yep. 00:15:45.620 --> 00:15:48.000 Cash recorded that Bonnie Prince Billy song for 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:50.299 his third American album, Solitary Man, back 00:15:50.299 --> 00:15:53.360 in 2000. For an artist known for being such an 00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:55.919 outsider, having a giant like Johnny Cash cover 00:15:55.919 --> 00:15:59.730 that specific song. It really cemented Oldham's 00:15:59.730 --> 00:16:02.490 place in that lineage of great, dark American 00:16:02.490 --> 00:16:04.889 songwriters. And it wasn't just a cover. The 00:16:04.889 --> 00:16:06.789 connection was more direct than that. That's 00:16:06.789 --> 00:16:09.009 right. The mutual respect was clear. Oldham didn't 00:16:09.009 --> 00:16:11.470 just get covered. He actually provided backing 00:16:11.470 --> 00:16:15.129 vocals on Cash's recording. Wow. Can you picture 00:16:15.129 --> 00:16:17.990 that? The sort of outlaw prince of modern folk 00:16:17.990 --> 00:16:19.889 standing there with the man in black, adding 00:16:19.889 --> 00:16:22.769 his fragile voice to his own song as Cash transforms 00:16:22.769 --> 00:16:25.250 it. It feels like a real torch passing moment. 00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:27.299 And that influence just spread out from there, 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:29.840 didn't it? Globally across all sorts of music. 00:16:29.980 --> 00:16:32.419 It really speaks to how strong his songwriting 00:16:32.419 --> 00:16:34.779 is structurally, that it works in so many different 00:16:34.779 --> 00:16:37.600 styles. Take Rosalia, the Spanish singer who 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:40.500 mixes flamenco and experimental pop. Yeah. She 00:16:40.500 --> 00:16:43.399 covered I See a Darkness, that song about deep 00:16:43.399 --> 00:16:46.159 existential crisis on her very first album, Los 00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:49.240 Angeles, going from Kentucky folk introspection 00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:53.480 to Spanish avant -garde pop. That's incredible 00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:56.279 range. And rock legends. covered him too. Absolutely. 00:16:56.980 --> 00:16:59.259 Marianne Faithfull started including his song 00:16:59.259 --> 00:17:02.720 A King at Night in her live shows around 2003. 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:05.380 And then you have people like Steve Aidy, Mark 00:17:05.380 --> 00:17:07.700 Kozilek, highly respected songwriters themselves 00:17:07.700 --> 00:17:10.339 covering his work. It confirms his status as 00:17:10.339 --> 00:17:12.920 a real songwriter's songwriter. But maybe the 00:17:12.920 --> 00:17:15.119 most surprising covers come from completely different 00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:17.859 ends of the musical spectrum. You mean like Catatonia? 00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:21.430 Exactly. A Swedish heavy metal band. Yeah, Catatonia, 00:17:21.509 --> 00:17:24.329 known for their atmospheric, melancholic metal. 00:17:24.569 --> 00:17:27.410 They covered Oh How I Enjoy the Light and they 00:17:27.410 --> 00:17:29.769 even wove parts of the Palace Brothers song You 00:17:29.769 --> 00:17:31.690 Will Miss Me When I Burn into one of their own 00:17:31.690 --> 00:17:34.809 tracks. It shows that his themes, darkness, mortality, 00:17:35.089 --> 00:17:37.450 they resonate even in the metal scene. And his 00:17:37.450 --> 00:17:39.950 work pops up in TV shows too. Right, like Deer 00:17:39.950 --> 00:17:42.089 Tick's cover of Death to Everyone was used really 00:17:42.089 --> 00:17:44.390 effectively in the Western series Hell on Wheels. 00:17:44.690 --> 00:17:46.990 The list keeps growing. Cadaver's condition covered 00:17:46.990 --> 00:17:50.039 black. Influence is broad. This feels like a 00:17:50.039 --> 00:17:52.500 good point to circle back to that do -it -yourself 00:17:52.500 --> 00:17:56.400 punk aesthetic. In today's world, that ethos 00:17:56.400 --> 00:17:59.480 gets tested by how music is distributed right. 00:17:59.940 --> 00:18:02.359 His stance on streaming services seems like a 00:18:02.359 --> 00:18:04.619 very practical application of his whole philosophy. 00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:07.240 It's a huge statement, really, a statement of 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:09.940 integrity. He's made a conscious choice to keep 00:18:09.940 --> 00:18:12.660 many of his solo albums off Spotify, the biggest 00:18:12.660 --> 00:18:15.240 platform out there. That must cost him in terms 00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:18.569 of reach and income. Massively. But he sees it 00:18:18.569 --> 00:18:20.769 as necessary. And his reason goes right to the 00:18:20.769 --> 00:18:23.029 core of it. He basically says he disagrees with 00:18:23.029 --> 00:18:25.490 how they treat musicians. Simple as that. He 00:18:25.490 --> 00:18:27.390 feels the payment model, the way music is kind 00:18:27.390 --> 00:18:30.029 of devalued, is fundamentally exploitative. So 00:18:30.029 --> 00:18:32.869 by withholding his work. He's reinforcing that 00:18:32.869 --> 00:18:35.569 anti -commercial, anti -establishment stance 00:18:35.569 --> 00:18:37.809 that he started with way back in the palace days. 00:18:38.069 --> 00:18:41.019 It's saying, look. I value the integrity of this 00:18:41.019 --> 00:18:43.680 project and the ability for artists to make a 00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:46.539 living more than I value mass access on these 00:18:46.539 --> 00:18:50.000 terms. It forces you, the listener, to engage 00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:52.160 with the music differently, maybe more intentionally. 00:18:52.460 --> 00:18:55.740 It reinforces that unbreakable relationship idea, 00:18:55.960 --> 00:18:58.339 even if it's less convenient for the consumer. 00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:01.779 OK, let's completely switch gears now, because 00:19:01.779 --> 00:19:04.019 for people who only know the music, maybe the 00:19:04.019 --> 00:19:06.599 biggest surprise is that Will Oldham has had 00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:09.380 this whole other career, a really robust and 00:19:09.380 --> 00:19:12.140 continuous one as an actor, often under his own 00:19:12.140 --> 00:19:14.339 name. Right. It's not just a side hobby. It's 00:19:14.339 --> 00:19:16.339 a parallel path that actually started before 00:19:16.339 --> 00:19:18.740 his music career really took off. Acting was 00:19:18.740 --> 00:19:20.940 his first ambition. Seems like it. He moved to 00:19:20.940 --> 00:19:23.019 Hollywood specifically to act after he landed 00:19:23.019 --> 00:19:25.279 his very first film role. And it was a pretty 00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:27.859 significant part, too. And in a serious, acclaimed 00:19:27.859 --> 00:19:30.119 film. from the start. Yeah, his first role was 00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:32.680 playing the teen preacher Danny Radner in John 00:19:32.680 --> 00:19:36.299 Sayles' fantastic 1987 drama, Mate One. Which 00:19:36.299 --> 00:19:38.160 is about the coal miners' strike, the Battle 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:41.359 of Mate One. Exactly. A powerful historical film 00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:44.200 about Appalachian labor disputes. Playing a teen 00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:46.240 preacher right off the bat placed him in this 00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:49.220 role, demanding deep moral conviction, intensity. 00:19:50.509 --> 00:19:52.609 Themes you can definitely hear echoing in his 00:19:52.609 --> 00:19:54.730 music later on. But he also had a brush with 00:19:54.730 --> 00:19:57.150 something much more mainstream early on, before 00:19:57.150 --> 00:19:58.970 he really committed to the indie world. Yeah, 00:19:59.009 --> 00:20:01.549 that range is part of his unique path. After 00:20:01.549 --> 00:20:04.029 Matewan, he ended up playing Chip McClure, the 00:20:04.029 --> 00:20:06.190 father of baby Jessica, remember her? The baby 00:20:06.190 --> 00:20:08.490 rescued from the well. Oh, wow. Yeah, in the 00:20:08.490 --> 00:20:12.130 1989 TV movie Everybody's Baby, the rescue of 00:20:12.130 --> 00:20:15.329 Jessica McClure. So a brief detour into mainstream 00:20:15.329 --> 00:20:17.789 sensational drama, totally different from the 00:20:17.789 --> 00:20:20.450 artistic isolation of his music. He was also 00:20:20.450 --> 00:20:22.529 in a film called Thousand Pieces of Gold around 00:20:22.529 --> 00:20:26.009 1990. But like his music, it seems his most lasting 00:20:26.009 --> 00:20:27.950 connections in acting came from the independent 00:20:27.950 --> 00:20:30.769 film world, especially with director Kelly Reichert. 00:20:30.990 --> 00:20:33.430 Absolutely. That partnership really marked his 00:20:33.430 --> 00:20:35.829 return to acting in the mid -2000s. He starred 00:20:35.829 --> 00:20:39.210 as Kurt in her 2006 film Old Joy. Which is a 00:20:39.210 --> 00:20:41.990 beautiful, quiet film. It really is. Just about 00:20:41.990 --> 00:20:44.049 these two estranged friends on a camping trip. 00:20:44.430 --> 00:20:48.509 And Kurt, his character, is defined by introspection, 00:20:48.789 --> 00:20:51.410 a feeling of displacement, a quiet searching. 00:20:51.869 --> 00:20:54.309 It feels like a perfect mirror to the Bonnie 00:20:54.309 --> 00:20:57.369 Prince -Billy persona in many ways. And he worked 00:20:57.369 --> 00:20:59.569 with her again after that. Yeah, he had a smaller 00:20:59.569 --> 00:21:02.410 role. as the character Icky in her next film, 00:21:02.549 --> 00:21:05.269 Wendy and Lucy, in 2008. He also found another 00:21:05.269 --> 00:21:07.430 key collaborator and director, David Lowery, 00:21:07.430 --> 00:21:09.289 right? Showcasing more of that philosophical 00:21:09.289 --> 00:21:12.609 side on screen. Yes. Lowery cast him first in 00:21:12.609 --> 00:21:15.910 a short film called Pioneer in 2011, and then... 00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:18.359 Maybe most memorably, as the character called 00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:21.319 the Prognosticator in the 2017 film A Ghost Story. 00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:23.819 Right, where he delivers that incredibly long 00:21:23.819 --> 00:21:26.339 monologue. That amazing monologue, all about 00:21:26.339 --> 00:21:29.039 legacy, time, questioning the whole point of 00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:31.240 existence. It feels like something Bonnie Prince 00:21:31.240 --> 00:21:32.980 Billy could have written himself. But just when 00:21:32.980 --> 00:21:34.980 you think you've got him pegged as this super 00:21:34.980 --> 00:21:38.640 serious, somber indie guy, he completely throws 00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:42.140 you a curveball by embracing total absurdity 00:21:42.140 --> 00:21:44.880 and lowbrow comedy. That DIY punk thing again, 00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:47.250 maybe? embracing stuff that just punctures any 00:21:47.250 --> 00:21:49.710 sense of high seriousness. His appearance in 00:21:49.710 --> 00:21:52.569 Jackass 3V. In 2010, yeah. It's just brilliant 00:21:52.569 --> 00:21:55.269 comedic contrast to his artistic reputation. 00:21:55.369 --> 00:21:58.529 He shows up as himself playing a gorilla trainer, 00:21:58.710 --> 00:22:01.609 but the story behind the cameo is almost better. 00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:04.599 Okay, tell us the negotiation story. So he agreed 00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:07.220 to do this absurd physical comedy bit. Right. 00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:09.859 But apparently, as part of the deal, he wrote 00:22:09.859 --> 00:22:12.480 a theme song for one of the filmmakers, Lance 00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:15.460 Bangs. But not just any theme song. Yeah. He 00:22:15.460 --> 00:22:17.740 wrote it in the style of a Saturday morning cartoon 00:22:17.740 --> 00:22:20.259 show theme. Get out. The guy known for Gothic 00:22:20.259 --> 00:22:22.759 Country wrote a cartoon theme for Jackass. Exactly. 00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:25.890 The sheer contrast is just... peak Oldham. It 00:22:25.890 --> 00:22:28.049 shows how comfortable he is with paradox, with 00:22:28.049 --> 00:22:30.990 performance art. It suggests that maybe all creative 00:22:30.990 --> 00:22:33.309 output, whether it's a haunting ballad or a silly 00:22:33.309 --> 00:22:35.970 cartoon tune, is just another valid project for 00:22:35.970 --> 00:22:38.670 him. That dry, surreal humor pops up in some 00:22:38.670 --> 00:22:41.890 niche TV stuff too. Yeah, he played Pastor Pigmeat 00:22:41.890 --> 00:22:44.410 in an episode of that infamous MTV charity show 00:22:44.410 --> 00:22:46.750 Wondershowsen. Oh, Wondershowsen, right. And 00:22:46.750 --> 00:22:48.650 he voiced a reverend character in the animated 00:22:48.650 --> 00:22:52.410 series Xavier, Renegade Angel. He clearly enjoys 00:22:52.410 --> 00:22:54.930 using that distinctive voice for weird comedic 00:22:54.930 --> 00:22:57.970 effect sometimes. But maybe the most out there 00:22:57.970 --> 00:23:00.509 project mentioned in the source material was 00:23:00.509 --> 00:23:03.049 that documentary that was supposed to be a reality 00:23:03.049 --> 00:23:05.769 TV pilot. Oh, Tripping with Keva. Yeah, from 00:23:05.769 --> 00:23:08.549 2004. What was the deal with that? The filmmaker, 00:23:08.809 --> 00:23:11.779 Kaviza Hedy. had this wild idea for a reality 00:23:11.779 --> 00:23:14.559 series where he'd take psychedelic drugs, specifically 00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:17.240 psilocybin mushrooms, with a different celebrity 00:23:17.240 --> 00:23:20.400 guest each episode. Seriously? A reality show 00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:22.779 pilot about celebrity mushroom trips in 2004? 00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:25.920 Yep. The short film showing him and Oldham taking 00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:28.559 the mushrooms was shot as the pilot? Obviously, 00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:30.400 it never got picked up by a network. I can imagine. 00:23:30.519 --> 00:23:33.259 Why not? Right. But the film itself did eventually 00:23:33.259 --> 00:23:35.759 get an official release years later in a box 00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:38.460 set of Zahedi's work. It's just another example, 00:23:38.539 --> 00:23:41.259 isn't it, of Oldham's willingness to jump into 00:23:41.259 --> 00:23:43.380 projects that just completely blur the lines 00:23:43.380 --> 00:23:46.920 between documentary performance art and maybe 00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:48.920 controlled chaos, kind of like the structured 00:23:48.920 --> 00:23:51.400 chaos of his musical identity. OK, let's round 00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:54.099 out the career part with his voice work, which 00:23:54.099 --> 00:23:56.079 often seems to bring things back to his roots, 00:23:56.119 --> 00:23:58.369 back to Kentucky. Yeah, his narration work is 00:23:58.369 --> 00:24:01.730 really well regarded. He lent that unique voice 00:24:01.730 --> 00:24:05.170 to some important documentaries like Madam and 00:24:05.170 --> 00:24:08.210 Little Boy in 2009, which is about atomic weapons. 00:24:08.549 --> 00:24:11.910 And also the 2010 film Music Makes a City, all 00:24:11.910 --> 00:24:13.789 about the history of the Louisville Orchestra. 00:24:14.150 --> 00:24:16.250 So he's using his voice to tell these bigger 00:24:16.250 --> 00:24:18.650 stories, but also regional ones. And he's even 00:24:18.650 --> 00:24:21.809 made his mark in modern video games for people 00:24:21.809 --> 00:24:24.890 into interactive narratives. He has. He did voice 00:24:24.890 --> 00:24:27.339 work for the 2013 game. Kentucky Route Zero. 00:24:27.779 --> 00:24:30.460 But more than that, he apparently served as inspiration 00:24:30.460 --> 00:24:32.500 for the character actually named Will in the 00:24:32.500 --> 00:24:35.140 game. Oh, cool. Yeah, and that game is known 00:24:35.140 --> 00:24:38.000 for its really surreal storytelling, exploring 00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:40.200 American mythologies, especially regional ones. 00:24:40.339 --> 00:24:42.660 So having him involved lends this authentic, 00:24:42.819 --> 00:24:45.920 grounded, but also slightly haunted quality to 00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:48.200 its version of Kentucky. So before we try to 00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:49.799 wrap all this complexity up, we should probably 00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:51.880 mention that this man of a thousand public faces 00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:54.460 does have a steady private anchor. Right. He 00:24:54.460 --> 00:24:56.839 married the textile artist Elsa Hansen back in 00:24:56.839 --> 00:24:59.359 2016, and they had a child together in 2018. 00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:02.039 So there's this grounded personal life happening 00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:05.099 alongside the constantly shifting, performing 00:25:05.099 --> 00:25:08.500 artistic identity. Even the ultimate shapeshifter 00:25:08.500 --> 00:25:11.259 has a private reality away from the prince or 00:25:11.259 --> 00:25:14.240 the prognosticator. Okay. So after this whole 00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:16.480 deep dive, how do we synthesize this? What's 00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:19.279 the main takeaway for you, the listener, from 00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:22.279 this whole pseudonym paradox of Joseph Will Oldham? 00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:24.099 I think the core idea, the thing that should 00:25:24.099 --> 00:25:26.200 really stick is that the only real consistency 00:25:26.200 --> 00:25:29.299 in his entire career is his embrace of intentional 00:25:29.299 --> 00:25:31.579 inconsistency. It's like he operates under this 00:25:31.579 --> 00:25:34.380 unified theory of creative work, meaning whether 00:25:34.380 --> 00:25:36.279 he's burning through five band names in five 00:25:36.279 --> 00:25:39.039 years or starring quietly in an indie film like 00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:41.619 Old Joy or, you know, writing a theme song for 00:25:41.619 --> 00:25:44.440 Jackass. It's all unified by this deep, almost 00:25:44.440 --> 00:25:47.140 academic commitment to the artistic project itself. 00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:49.579 Right. He forces the audience to focus on the 00:25:49.579 --> 00:25:52.160 thing being made. the album, the film, the song, 00:25:52.299 --> 00:25:55.079 the collaboration, rather than getting comfortable 00:25:55.079 --> 00:25:58.599 with a single predictable personal brand. Exactly. 00:25:58.619 --> 00:26:00.819 It's a career built on deliberately managing 00:26:00.819 --> 00:26:03.339 identity in order to maximize artistic freedom. 00:26:03.700 --> 00:26:05.960 Which leads us perfectly into our final thought 00:26:05.960 --> 00:26:07.960 for you to chew on after this is over. Okay. 00:26:08.460 --> 00:26:12.079 So we established early on that the stated main 00:26:12.079 --> 00:26:14.400 reason for the Bonnie Prince Billy pseudonym 00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:17.400 was to create this unbreakable relationship between 00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:19.539 the audience and the performer right to protect 00:26:19.539 --> 00:26:22.720 the art from the man right but We also know he 00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:24.960 works continuously under his birth name, Will 00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:28.279 Oldham, for all his acting, his narration work, 00:26:28.420 --> 00:26:31.460 and even for specific albums like Joya or that 00:26:31.460 --> 00:26:34.079 really significant rework album, Songs of Love 00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:36.099 and Horror. So that raises a really interesting 00:26:36.099 --> 00:26:38.220 question about what that artistic contract actually 00:26:38.220 --> 00:26:41.079 is. If the prince is the dedicated mythic performer 00:26:41.079 --> 00:26:43.680 of the songs, what does the simultaneous work 00:26:43.680 --> 00:26:46.380 as Will Oldham tell us about the relationship 00:26:46.380 --> 00:26:48.890 he wants with that material? yeah does the name 00:26:48.890 --> 00:26:51.049 will oldham serve a totally different audience 00:26:51.049 --> 00:26:55.309 maybe one for his film work or narration or do 00:26:55.309 --> 00:26:58.410 the two names will oldham and bonnie prince billy 00:26:58.410 --> 00:27:00.990 just represent two different but equally serious 00:27:00.990 --> 00:27:04.569 sides of the same huge artistic project one being 00:27:04.569 --> 00:27:06.690 the sort of mythic public performance the other 00:27:06.690 --> 00:27:09.940 may be more direct unmediated communication It's 00:27:09.940 --> 00:27:12.740 a really fascinating way to think about how identity 00:27:12.740 --> 00:27:15.460 gets managed in the creative world today, where 00:27:15.460 --> 00:27:17.660 that line between the artist and the art is always 00:27:17.660 --> 00:27:19.640 getting blurred. Definitely something to think 00:27:19.640 --> 00:27:22.660 about as you explore his incredibly complex but 00:27:22.660 --> 00:27:25.000 always captivating body of work. Absolutely. 00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:26.920 Thank you for diving deep with us today.