WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.259 Welcome to the Deep Dive. We sift through, well, 00:00:03.319 --> 00:00:05.860 frankly, mountains of information to bring you 00:00:05.860 --> 00:00:10.179 the really essential, the provocative, the just 00:00:10.179 --> 00:00:12.460 plain fascinating stuff you need to know. Exactly. 00:00:12.679 --> 00:00:16.120 And today, wow, we are diving deep into Sandra 00:00:16.120 --> 00:00:18.800 Bernhard, an immense career and, let's be honest, 00:00:18.980 --> 00:00:22.719 famously controversial actress, comedian, singer, 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:26.179 author. She's done it all across, what, five 00:00:26.179 --> 00:00:28.460 decades now? Pretty much, yeah. And she's worked 00:00:28.460 --> 00:00:30.629 across basically every platform you can think 00:00:30.629 --> 00:00:32.829 of. So our source material today, it covers this 00:00:32.829 --> 00:00:34.909 huge range. It's not just the stand -up, which 00:00:34.909 --> 00:00:36.890 she's obviously known for. We're looking at her 00:00:36.890 --> 00:00:39.670 acting work, which is really varied, her singing, 00:00:39.810 --> 00:00:41.869 her books. It's a lot. It really is. She's this 00:00:41.869 --> 00:00:44.869 artist whose main tool seems to be the completely 00:00:44.869 --> 00:00:47.149 unfiltered word, right? Right. And she operates 00:00:47.149 --> 00:00:50.189 in this interesting space kind of between high 00:00:50.189 --> 00:00:53.939 art. pop culture and some pretty aggressive satire. 00:00:53.979 --> 00:00:55.960 It's a mix that you don't see very often. So 00:00:55.960 --> 00:00:58.159 our mission today, it feels kind of complex. 00:00:58.219 --> 00:01:01.100 We want to unpack this paradox, I guess. How 00:01:01.100 --> 00:01:03.950 did Sandra Bernhardt go from being this? stand 00:01:03.950 --> 00:01:06.030 -up comic, you know, making her name by tearing 00:01:06.030 --> 00:01:08.569 down celebrity culture to becoming this multi 00:01:08.569 --> 00:01:10.150 -platform artist. Someone who brings together 00:01:10.150 --> 00:01:12.829 performance art, music, serious acting roles. 00:01:13.030 --> 00:01:15.010 And the key seems to be she's always pushing 00:01:15.010 --> 00:01:18.250 boundaries. Always. Yeah. Which, naturally, leads 00:01:18.250 --> 00:01:21.650 to some pretty spectacular clashes with the mainstream. 00:01:21.989 --> 00:01:24.170 Definitely. And, you know, if you need just one 00:01:24.170 --> 00:01:26.409 example of that incredible range, think about 00:01:26.409 --> 00:01:29.950 this arc. Way back, 1983, she wins the National 00:01:29.950 --> 00:01:32.409 Society of Film Critics Award for Best Supporting 00:01:32.409 --> 00:01:35.079 Actress. a really prestigious award. To the king 00:01:35.079 --> 00:01:37.560 of comedy, right, Scorsese. Yeah. Intense dramatic 00:01:37.560 --> 00:01:40.700 role. Exactly. Fast forward decades later, and 00:01:40.700 --> 00:01:43.180 she's playing Nurse Judy Kubrick in Pose, you 00:01:43.180 --> 00:01:45.659 know, this landmark show about queer and trans 00:01:45.659 --> 00:01:47.959 ball culture. In such different worlds. Totally. 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:49.980 And it keeps going. She's got a role coming up, 00:01:49.980 --> 00:01:52.040 Nurse Cecily, in the new season of Severance 00:01:52.040 --> 00:01:54.620 on Apple TV plus Zara. That's huge. That show's 00:01:54.620 --> 00:01:57.400 highly anticipated. So that ability to not just 00:01:57.400 --> 00:01:59.540 survive, but thrive in such different spaces. 00:01:59.780 --> 00:02:01.700 That's really what we need to dig into today. 00:02:02.170 --> 00:02:04.150 OK, so let's start at the beginning. Where did 00:02:04.150 --> 00:02:07.209 this famously sharp point of view come from? 00:02:07.569 --> 00:02:11.449 Sandra Bernhard, born June 6, 1955, Flint, Michigan. 00:02:11.629 --> 00:02:14.889 Flint, Michigan. Yeah. And her background, it 00:02:14.889 --> 00:02:18.930 sounds pretty traditional on the surface. Her 00:02:18.930 --> 00:02:21.750 dad, Jerome Bernhard, was a proctologist. Right. 00:02:21.830 --> 00:02:24.830 And her mom, Jeanette Lezebnik, an artist. And 00:02:24.830 --> 00:02:26.770 she was raised conservative Jewish. And those 00:02:26.770 --> 00:02:29.800 details, you know. For a comedian whose work 00:02:29.800 --> 00:02:32.539 is so much about social commentary, they matter. 00:02:32.680 --> 00:02:35.080 You've got that industrial Midwest start, but 00:02:35.080 --> 00:02:37.960 then a really big change. The family moves to 00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:41.000 Scottsdale, Arizona. She's 10. Scottsdale, that's 00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:43.740 a huge shift. Flint to Scottsdale. Yeah, she 00:02:43.740 --> 00:02:46.139 graduates high school there in 73. You have to 00:02:46.139 --> 00:02:49.520 think that contrast. you know, industrial Midwest 00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:52.879 to the kind of sprawling, often wealthy, maybe 00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:55.360 more conservative Southwest. That must have given 00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:57.639 her a lot of material later on for her observational 00:02:57.639 --> 00:02:59.639 stuff. Oh, absolutely. Being an outsider in that 00:02:59.639 --> 00:03:02.560 kind of sun drenched Pacific environment. Yeah. 00:03:02.620 --> 00:03:04.259 And then right after high school, she does something 00:03:04.259 --> 00:03:06.259 even more unexpected. Our sources talk about 00:03:06.259 --> 00:03:10.360 this detour. She goes abroad to Israel. In 1973. 00:03:10.759 --> 00:03:14.580 Yeah, 1973. And she stays for seven months. Lives 00:03:14.580 --> 00:03:17.539 on a kibbutz, kibbutz kefar manahem. So this 00:03:17.539 --> 00:03:20.139 wasn't just a quick trip. It was real immersion, 00:03:20.379 --> 00:03:22.900 communal living. And the sources also mentioned 00:03:22.900 --> 00:03:25.860 she went back later during the Yom Kippur War. 00:03:26.020 --> 00:03:29.800 That's right. Which is, wow. Talk about intense 00:03:29.800 --> 00:03:32.199 life experience right out of high school. Exactly. 00:03:32.199 --> 00:03:34.400 You contrast that kind of life or death international 00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:37.780 reality with, you know. The suburban bubble of 00:03:37.780 --> 00:03:40.240 Scottsdale she just left. It gives you a whole 00:03:40.240 --> 00:03:41.939 different lens to look at Hollywood celebrity 00:03:41.939 --> 00:03:44.719 culture through, which she starts taking aim 00:03:44.719 --> 00:03:47.159 at later. It totally connects to that intensity 00:03:47.159 --> 00:03:49.159 you see in her work. So she comes back to the 00:03:49.159 --> 00:03:51.539 U .S., skips college, basically. Right. And makes 00:03:51.539 --> 00:03:53.759 her way to L .A. And she starts making a name 00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:55.680 for herself at the comedy store in Hollywood. 00:03:55.919 --> 00:03:58.300 This is the late 70s. The legendary comedy store. 00:03:58.400 --> 00:04:00.139 The Crucible, yeah. And she gets established 00:04:00.139 --> 00:04:02.659 pretty quickly, which leads to this huge early 00:04:02.659 --> 00:04:06.060 break in 1977. She gets cast as a supporting 00:04:06.060 --> 00:04:08.360 player on The Richard Pryor Show. Working with 00:04:08.360 --> 00:04:10.560 Richard Pryor. Right. Right off the bat. I know. 00:04:10.659 --> 00:04:13.139 Incredible. That gave her serious, like, serious 00:04:13.139 --> 00:04:15.719 industry cred immediately. But, okay, here's 00:04:15.719 --> 00:04:18.240 where it gets really, really interesting. Because 00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:20.319 she's on this stand -up path, but then takes 00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:24.279 this massive left turn into drama. The Scorsese 00:04:24.279 --> 00:04:26.500 breakthrough. Yeah, it's a huge risk, right? 00:04:26.620 --> 00:04:28.879 For a young comic trying to break through, to 00:04:28.879 --> 00:04:31.720 take a role that's so far from comedy. Martin 00:04:31.720 --> 00:04:35.220 Scorsese casts her in The King of Comedy, 1983. 00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:38.399 And the role itself, Masha. Yeah, the stalker. 00:04:38.439 --> 00:04:41.000 The stalker slash kidnapper, yeah. Obsessed with 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:44.819 Jerry Lewis's character. And she's just... magnetic 00:04:44.819 --> 00:04:47.420 in it. Yeah. Disturbing, captivating. It's like 00:04:47.420 --> 00:04:49.759 she channeled all that outsider energy into this 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:52.019 character who's like a terrifying reflection 00:04:52.019 --> 00:04:54.500 of the celebrity obsession she'd later satirized. 00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:56.519 It wasn't just a bit part. It was a major role. 00:04:56.720 --> 00:04:59.480 And the industry noticed immediately. The critical 00:04:59.480 --> 00:05:01.759 acclaim wasn't just polite nods. It was huge. 00:05:02.220 --> 00:05:04.980 She won the National Society of Film Critics 00:05:04.980 --> 00:05:08.540 Award for Best Supporting Actress 1983. She won 00:05:08.540 --> 00:05:10.850 it. Not just nominate. We want it. And you have 00:05:10.850 --> 00:05:13.410 to understand that award. It signaled she wasn't 00:05:13.410 --> 00:05:15.149 just a funny comic. She was a serious, dramatic 00:05:15.149 --> 00:05:18.069 actor capable of real darkness, real intensity. 00:05:18.209 --> 00:05:20.910 So that basically gave her the authority, the 00:05:20.910 --> 00:05:23.329 artistic license to start blending genres later 00:05:23.329 --> 00:05:25.149 on, didn't it? In a way, a few others could. 00:05:25.550 --> 00:05:28.790 Exactly. Winning that major award for a dramatic 00:05:28.790 --> 00:05:31.670 film role while still honing her comedy chops, 00:05:31.889 --> 00:05:34.629 it totally changed everything for her. Gave her 00:05:34.629 --> 00:05:37.750 this platform, this freedom to experiment. And 00:05:37.750 --> 00:05:40.490 she became unavoidable on late night TV, which 00:05:40.490 --> 00:05:43.149 was, I mean, absolutely essential for comedians 00:05:43.149 --> 00:05:45.910 back then. Oh, yeah. Our sources highlight just 00:05:45.910 --> 00:05:49.189 how ubiquitous she was. 28 appearances on Late 00:05:49.189 --> 00:05:51.209 Night with David Letterman starting right there 00:05:51.209 --> 00:05:54.259 in 1983. Letterman's show. That seems like the 00:05:54.259 --> 00:05:56.980 perfect fit for her, right? Intelligent, kind 00:05:56.980 --> 00:06:00.100 of cynical. Absolutely. It was the ideal incubator 00:06:00.100 --> 00:06:02.860 for that sharp, acerbic personality she was developing. 00:06:03.100 --> 00:06:04.939 But it sounds like the standard five -minute 00:06:04.939 --> 00:06:07.100 stand -up slot wasn't really enough for what 00:06:07.100 --> 00:06:09.459 she wanted to do. No, not at all. Her comedy 00:06:09.459 --> 00:06:12.579 was always more theatrical, you know? It was 00:06:12.579 --> 00:06:14.420 cultural critique mixed with personal stories, 00:06:14.480 --> 00:06:16.720 musical numbers. It needed more space. Right. 00:06:16.779 --> 00:06:19.399 It needed a bigger stage, literally, which led 00:06:19.399 --> 00:06:21.680 her to develop these one -woman shows. That evolution 00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:24.560 starts with her first show, I'm Your Woman, that 00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:27.860 was 1985, and it got released as an album later. 00:06:27.980 --> 00:06:30.199 But the real breakthrough, the one that really 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:34.339 cemented her as a performance artist, was Without 00:06:34.339 --> 00:06:37.360 You, I'm Nothing. With You, I'm Not Much Better. 00:06:37.879 --> 00:06:41.339 That title alone. I know, right? It debuted off 00:06:41.339 --> 00:06:44.240 -Broadway in 1988, played at the Orpheum Theatre. 00:06:44.500 --> 00:06:47.139 Big deal. And what made that show different? 00:06:47.279 --> 00:06:49.420 What was the structure like? Well, that's what 00:06:49.420 --> 00:06:51.519 really set her apart. It wasn't just jokes, joke, 00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:54.040 joke. It was this whole experience. You get these 00:06:54.040 --> 00:06:57.920 blistering, satirical monologues tearing down 00:06:57.920 --> 00:07:01.360 celebrity culture. And then suddenly these incredibly 00:07:01.360 --> 00:07:03.819 raw personal confessional moments. And she used 00:07:03.819 --> 00:07:07.000 music, classic pop, jazz, blues covers to kind 00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:09.300 of bridge those different moods. Just like emotional 00:07:09.300 --> 00:07:12.120 whiplash. Totally. One minute she's eviscerating 00:07:12.120 --> 00:07:14.500 someone famous. The next she's doing this heartbreaking 00:07:14.500 --> 00:07:17.120 Nina Simone cover. That became her signature 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:19.990 style. art, you know, not just a comedy set. 00:07:20.149 --> 00:07:21.769 And she was smart about getting it out there, 00:07:21.829 --> 00:07:23.730 wasn't she? She didn't just let it live on stage. 00:07:24.029 --> 00:07:26.790 Very smart. She immediately understood how to 00:07:26.790 --> 00:07:30.189 translate that live experience. By 1990, without 00:07:30.189 --> 00:07:32.970 you, nothing was adapted into a film. Oh yeah, 00:07:33.050 --> 00:07:34.850 the sources mentioned it was shot mostly at the 00:07:34.850 --> 00:07:37.629 Coconut Grove nightclub, at the old Ambassador 00:07:37.629 --> 00:07:40.949 Hotel. Very atmospheric. Exactly. And at the 00:07:40.949 --> 00:07:43.230 same time, she releases it as a double album 00:07:43.230 --> 00:07:47.310 in 1989. Wow. Film and a double album. Yeah, 00:07:47.350 --> 00:07:49.750 she was thinking multi -platform way before that 00:07:49.750 --> 00:07:51.990 was common. Like a producer as much as a performer. 00:07:52.870 --> 00:07:55.029 Documenting her work, reaching different audiences. 00:07:55.350 --> 00:07:57.230 And it worked. It got major recognition. She 00:07:57.230 --> 00:08:00.189 got a Grammy nomination. Best comedy album, 1990. 00:08:00.589 --> 00:08:04.069 For without you, I'm nothing. So even though 00:08:04.069 --> 00:08:06.089 what she was doing was way more complex than 00:08:06.089 --> 00:08:08.730 typical stand -up, she was still competing alongside 00:08:08.730 --> 00:08:11.759 the... biggest names in comedy. It was huge validation. 00:08:12.139 --> 00:08:14.759 It seems like the stage remained her like creative 00:08:14.759 --> 00:08:16.980 home base, though. Definitely. That's where she 00:08:16.980 --> 00:08:19.120 had total control, where she could blend everything, 00:08:19.339 --> 00:08:21.759 the comedy, the music, the commentary. She went 00:08:21.759 --> 00:08:25.000 back to Broadway in 98 with I'm Still Here. Damn 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:27.519 it. Another great title. And that got recorded 00:08:27.519 --> 00:08:29.779 for a live album, too. Apparently she was actually 00:08:29.779 --> 00:08:32.159 pregnant during the Broadway run, which is just. 00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:35.039 Incredible. And she kept creating these shows, 00:08:35.139 --> 00:08:37.080 Everything Bad and Beautiful in 2006. That got 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:40.179 a really well -received CD release, too. And 00:08:40.179 --> 00:08:43.720 Plan B from Outer Space in 2007. The live show 00:08:43.720 --> 00:08:46.059 is always the anchor for her. Okay, so she's 00:08:46.059 --> 00:08:48.519 got this film award, these acclaimed stage shows. 00:08:48.899 --> 00:08:52.460 She's built up serious artistic authority. And 00:08:52.460 --> 00:08:54.940 that really sets the stage for her becoming this 00:08:54.940 --> 00:08:59.139 major force in pop culture in the late 80s, early 00:08:59.139 --> 00:09:01.440 90s. Yeah, and you really can't talk about that 00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:03.879 period without... talking about Madonna. The 00:09:03.879 --> 00:09:05.759 Madonna connection. Yeah. It was huge. It was 00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:08.860 a time when, I mean, the lines between art, publicity, 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:12.340 friendship, rumored romance, they were just completely 00:09:12.340 --> 00:09:14.179 blurred. And Bernhard was right in the middle 00:09:14.179 --> 00:09:16.639 of it all. The sources call her Madonna's then 00:09:16.639 --> 00:09:19.519 good friend, but also mention the rumored lover 00:09:19.519 --> 00:09:22.340 aspect. It wasn't exactly kept private, was it? 00:09:22.419 --> 00:09:24.279 Not at all. It felt very much like spectacle. 00:09:24.820 --> 00:09:26.919 Deliberately so. And the peak of that spectacle 00:09:26.919 --> 00:09:29.399 was probably that Letterman appearance in 1988. 00:09:30.059 --> 00:09:33.159 Oh, my God. Legendary. The two of them on late 00:09:33.159 --> 00:09:36.019 night doing this kind of staged, really sexy 00:09:36.019 --> 00:09:39.379 confrontation, openly hinting at this intense, 00:09:39.480 --> 00:09:42.200 possibly romantic thing between them. On network 00:09:42.200 --> 00:09:44.659 TV in 1988. Exactly. You have to remember the 00:09:44.659 --> 00:09:47.980 context. That kind of openly queer coded interaction 00:09:47.980 --> 00:09:51.600 between two huge female celebrities. It was shocking. 00:09:51.779 --> 00:09:55.779 It generated so much press. constant headlines. 00:09:56.080 --> 00:09:57.519 And their friendship seemed pretty documented 00:09:57.519 --> 00:09:59.440 for a while after that, too, right? Bernhard 00:09:59.440 --> 00:10:01.639 was in Madonna's Truth or Dare documentary in 00:10:01.639 --> 00:10:04.500 91. She was, which sort of cemented her place 00:10:04.500 --> 00:10:06.980 in that elite celebrity circle. But then the 00:10:06.980 --> 00:10:09.139 sources say the friendship just ended pretty 00:10:09.139 --> 00:10:11.639 definitively in 1992. Yeah, it seemed to burn 00:10:11.639 --> 00:10:14.299 bright and fast. But the cultural impact of that 00:10:14.299 --> 00:10:17.450 whole period, that very public pairing. It really 00:10:17.450 --> 00:10:20.830 vaulted Bernhard to a whole new level of mainstream 00:10:20.830 --> 00:10:23.350 visibility. And maybe that visibility, that ability 00:10:23.350 --> 00:10:26.230 to generate buzz, even controversial buzz, helped 00:10:26.230 --> 00:10:28.230 open the door for her next big move, network 00:10:28.230 --> 00:10:30.549 television. Absolutely. It leads directly into 00:10:30.549 --> 00:10:32.889 her joining the cast of Roseanne, which was, 00:10:32.950 --> 00:10:34.669 I mean, one of the biggest shows on TV at the 00:10:34.669 --> 00:10:37.870 time. Huge hit sitcom on ABC. And she comes in 00:10:37.870 --> 00:10:40.710 during the fourth season, 1991, playing Nancy 00:10:40.710 --> 00:10:43.929 Bartlett. She stayed for quite a while, 33 episodes 00:10:43.929 --> 00:10:46.740 through 97. And that role Nancy Bartlett. It's 00:10:46.740 --> 00:10:48.940 actually really significant in TV history. We 00:10:48.940 --> 00:10:51.279 kind of forget how big a deal it was. How so? 00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:54.600 Well, this is the early 90s. LGBTQ plus representation 00:10:54.600 --> 00:10:57.559 on TV is still really fraught, politically charged. 00:10:58.100 --> 00:11:01.059 And Nancy Bartlett becomes one of the first openly 00:11:01.059 --> 00:11:03.580 bisexual recurring characters on American network 00:11:03.580 --> 00:11:06.340 television. On a show like Roseanne. A mainstream 00:11:06.340 --> 00:11:09.159 working class family sitcom. Exactly. That was 00:11:09.159 --> 00:11:11.740 radical back then. Bringing an openly bisexual 00:11:11.740 --> 00:11:14.019 character into millions of living rooms every 00:11:14.019 --> 00:11:16.659 week on that kind of show. It was a major act 00:11:16.659 --> 00:11:19.500 of visibility and normalization, really. So even 00:11:19.500 --> 00:11:22.080 with her edgy standup persona, she was using 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:25.120 this mainstream platform to push social boundaries. 00:11:25.320 --> 00:11:27.080 Yeah, she was working on multiple levels and 00:11:27.080 --> 00:11:29.240 she never just did one thing, did she? While 00:11:29.240 --> 00:11:31.299 she's on Roseanne, she's also hosting this quirky 00:11:31.299 --> 00:11:33.700 movie show on USA Network, Real Wild Cinema. 00:11:34.139 --> 00:11:36.539 That was for Tuesday. on starting in 95. Oh, 00:11:36.580 --> 00:11:39.159 I remember that. And then in 92, September 92, 00:11:39.419 --> 00:11:42.240 she does the Playboy pictorial. Nude. Right. 00:11:42.559 --> 00:11:44.820 Leaning right into the provocative image. So 00:11:44.820 --> 00:11:47.820 you've got the serious acting, the boundary pushing 00:11:47.820 --> 00:11:51.259 TV role, and the shock value stuff all happening 00:11:51.259 --> 00:11:53.399 around the same time. She really defies easy 00:11:53.399 --> 00:11:56.559 categorization. Totally. And speaking of different 00:11:56.559 --> 00:11:59.620 paths. We have to talk about the role that got 00:11:59.620 --> 00:12:02.700 away, the big what if. She apparently was offered 00:12:02.700 --> 00:12:05.940 Miranda Hobbs on Sex and the City. No way, Miranda. 00:12:06.299 --> 00:12:08.940 Yeah. It's impossible to picture anyone but Cynthia 00:12:08.940 --> 00:12:11.860 Nixon. I know. But according to Bernhardt herself, 00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:15.519 she got the offer, and she turned it down. Why? 00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:18.139 Two reasons, based on the sources. She thought 00:12:18.139 --> 00:12:20.639 the original script she saw was, quote, terrible, 00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:23.879 and the paycheck was too small. Wow. turning 00:12:23.879 --> 00:12:26.279 down what became Sex and the City because the 00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:28.059 script wasn't good enough and the pay was low. 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:30.539 It tells you a lot, doesn't it? Even facing this 00:12:30.539 --> 00:12:33.120 potentially massive, career -changing mainstream 00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:36.960 hit, her priorities were, like, artistic integrity 00:12:36.960 --> 00:12:38.899 and knowing her worth. She was willing to walk 00:12:38.899 --> 00:12:41.559 away. That takes guts. Or at least a very strong 00:12:41.559 --> 00:12:44.279 sense of self. Yeah. That willingness to filter 00:12:44.279 --> 00:12:46.639 everything through her own lens, even if it's 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:49.279 risky, that seems pretty central to the whole 00:12:49.279 --> 00:12:51.879 Fanda Bernhardt story. Okay, so most people know 00:12:51.879 --> 00:12:53.809 Bernhardt the comedian. Maybe they know Bernhard, 00:12:53.929 --> 00:12:56.950 the actress, or the controversial figure. But 00:12:56.950 --> 00:12:59.769 one part of her career that often surprises people 00:12:59.769 --> 00:13:02.389 is just how extensive her music career is. It 00:13:02.389 --> 00:13:04.789 really is. She's not just someone who sings a 00:13:04.789 --> 00:13:08.110 bit in her shows. She performs classic pop, jazz, 00:13:08.409 --> 00:13:11.029 blues, and really integrates it deeply into her 00:13:11.029 --> 00:13:13.250 stage work. And the sheer volume of recorded 00:13:13.250 --> 00:13:16.279 work is impressive. The sources list, what, 15 00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:19.259 albums and EPs that combine music and comedy. 00:13:19.399 --> 00:13:21.919 Yeah, it's a substantial discography. And some 00:13:21.919 --> 00:13:23.740 of it actually charted, which people might not 00:13:23.740 --> 00:13:26.799 realize. Excuses for Bad Behavior Part 1 hit 00:13:26.799 --> 00:13:28.899 number 40 on the Billboard Heat Seekers chart. 00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:31.580 Okay. And I love being mean, don't you? Yeah. 00:13:31.620 --> 00:13:34.279 Another great title reached number 9 on the Billboard 00:13:34.279 --> 00:13:36.259 Comedy Chart. So crossing genres even on the 00:13:36.259 --> 00:13:38.879 charts. Let's think about the music itself. Often 00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:41.639 she's interpreting standards, right? jazz blues 00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:45.200 classics that requires real vocal chops real 00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:47.940 emotional depth it does and it creates this fascinating 00:13:47.940 --> 00:13:51.259 contrast doesn't it she can deliver this blistering 00:13:51.259 --> 00:13:54.519 political satire just shredding someone and then 00:13:54.519 --> 00:13:57.879 pivot on a dime to sing this really heartfelt 00:13:57.879 --> 00:14:00.419 vulnerable standard it's like she uses the music 00:14:00.419 --> 00:14:03.059 to disarm you to show vulnerability right before 00:14:03.059 --> 00:14:05.320 she goes back in for the kill with the commentary 00:14:05.320 --> 00:14:08.059 it keeps the audience off balance totally And 00:14:08.059 --> 00:14:10.460 what's even more surprising maybe is her success 00:14:10.460 --> 00:14:13.100 in a completely different musical arena, dance 00:14:13.100 --> 00:14:16.539 music. Dance music. Seriously. Seriously. She 00:14:16.539 --> 00:14:19.659 actually scored significant hits on the U .S. 00:14:19.659 --> 00:14:22.639 Billboard Hot Dance Club play chart. Her cover 00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:25.360 of Sylvester's You Make Me Feel, Mighty Real. 00:14:25.580 --> 00:14:27.759 The classic. Went to number 13 on the dance chart 00:14:27.759 --> 00:14:30.909 and another single. On the runway, hit number 00:14:30.909 --> 00:14:33.570 39. That's incredible. So, acclaimed dramatic 00:14:33.570 --> 00:14:36.809 actress, groundbreaking comedian, and a charting 00:14:36.809 --> 00:14:39.110 dance diva. It just shows how much she refuses 00:14:39.110 --> 00:14:40.889 to be put in a box. And she even did a Hanukkah 00:14:40.889 --> 00:14:43.750 song. Yeah. Co -wrote and performed a song called 00:14:43.750 --> 00:14:46.450 Miracle of Lights for a holiday compilation album. 00:14:46.730 --> 00:14:49.110 Like you said, incredible versatility. She can 00:14:49.110 --> 00:14:51.990 connect with audiences through almost any genre, 00:14:52.070 --> 00:14:54.830 which feeds back into those really diverse live 00:14:54.830 --> 00:14:57.610 shows. And all that performance experience across... 00:14:58.169 --> 00:15:01.330 Comedy, music, theater. Yeah. It seems like it's 00:15:01.330 --> 00:15:03.710 really informed her more recent dramatic work, 00:15:03.769 --> 00:15:05.629 too. Absolutely. It feels like a perfect training 00:15:05.629 --> 00:15:07.809 ground. Look at her role on Pose. That's such 00:15:07.809 --> 00:15:09.970 a great example of her staying relevant and deeply 00:15:09.970 --> 00:15:12.590 connected to queer culture. She played Nurse 00:15:12.590 --> 00:15:16.950 Judy Kubrick from 2018 to 2021, right? 13 episodes. 00:15:17.190 --> 00:15:18.750 Yeah, in the series, that was just so important, 00:15:18.830 --> 00:15:20.909 focusing on the ball scene in New York during 00:15:20.909 --> 00:15:24.129 the AIDS crisis. And Nurse Judy, she was kind 00:15:24.129 --> 00:15:25.830 of the compassionate caregiver, the advocate, 00:15:25.950 --> 00:15:28.350 wasn't she? Provided this granding, dramatic 00:15:28.350 --> 00:15:31.129 weight against all the fabulousness and the tragedy. 00:15:31.269 --> 00:15:33.509 Exactly. It felt like resonant casting. You know, 00:15:33.529 --> 00:15:35.350 not just stunt casting. It connected back to 00:15:35.350 --> 00:15:38.429 her own history of LGBTQ plus advocacy, her identity 00:15:38.429 --> 00:15:41.490 as a bisexual artist. Just fit. And she's get 00:15:41.490 --> 00:15:43.429 busy with other high profile dramatic roles, 00:15:43.529 --> 00:15:45.429 too. You mentioned Severance coming up. Right. 00:15:45.490 --> 00:15:48.330 Nurse Cecily in 2025. Right. And before that, 00:15:48.409 --> 00:15:50.330 she did six episodes of American Horror Story, 00:15:50.570 --> 00:15:54.610 NYC in 2022. So staying very active in major 00:15:54.610 --> 00:15:57.350 TV projects. And she pops up in recurring comedy 00:15:57.350 --> 00:16:00.389 roles, too, like Joe Deaf or Joe on Two Broke 00:16:00.389 --> 00:16:03.860 Girls. And Professor Teresa Ladarski on Switched 00:16:03.860 --> 00:16:06.080 at Birth, she even played herself on Will & Grace. 00:16:06.139 --> 00:16:08.500 It's like she never stops working, always finding 00:16:08.500 --> 00:16:11.320 ways to use different parts of her talent. Okay, 00:16:11.379 --> 00:16:13.639 now we need to shift gears a bit and address 00:16:13.639 --> 00:16:17.240 the... Well, the controversies. Her persona is 00:16:17.240 --> 00:16:19.919 built on being unfiltered, right? No. But that 00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:22.360 approach has definitely led to some serious public 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:24.500 friction over the years. Yeah, this section needs 00:16:24.500 --> 00:16:26.200 careful handling. We're looking at the source 00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:28.080 material, reporting on these incidents and the 00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:30.759 rhetoric used, but, you know, without endorsing 00:16:30.759 --> 00:16:32.679 any of it. It's about understanding how she's 00:16:32.679 --> 00:16:35.320 managed this incredibly provocative public career. 00:16:35.580 --> 00:16:37.639 Exactly. It's about examining where the line 00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:40.139 is or maybe where different people draw the line 00:16:40.139 --> 00:16:44.320 between satire, provocation, and... Something 00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:46.580 else. So let's look at some specific examples 00:16:46.580 --> 00:16:49.200 documented in the sources. One of the earliest 00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:51.860 and maybe most shocking physically was back in 00:16:51.860 --> 00:16:54.940 1995 on Politically Incorrect. Oh, yeah. The 00:16:54.940 --> 00:16:56.860 Comedy Central show. She was on a panel with 00:16:56.860 --> 00:16:59.139 John Lofton, a conservative commentator, and 00:16:59.139 --> 00:17:02.080 things got heated, like really heated. Sources 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:04.279 describe her actually getting up, standing over 00:17:04.279 --> 00:17:07.019 him, spitting at him and then saying, and this 00:17:07.019 --> 00:17:09.400 quote is documented, if I had you, you'd be an 00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:12.730 abortion. Wow. The physicality, the spitting, 00:17:12.750 --> 00:17:16.190 plus that line, it went way beyond political 00:17:16.190 --> 00:17:18.730 disagreement. It became this huge media thing 00:17:18.730 --> 00:17:21.150 about, you know, what's acceptable public behavior. 00:17:21.289 --> 00:17:24.230 Definitely. Then jump forward to 2006. There's 00:17:24.230 --> 00:17:26.289 a controversy involving a commercial she did 00:17:26.289 --> 00:17:29.759 for Emac Cosmetics. Emac C. makeup art cosmetics. 00:17:30.099 --> 00:17:32.319 This one is interesting because it shows the 00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:34.839 clash between her unfiltered style and corporate 00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:37.740 branding. She was promoting a lip gloss, I think. 00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:40.500 And what did she say? Well, in the ad, she apparently 00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:43.059 targeted potential critics of her lifestyle or 00:17:43.059 --> 00:17:46.220 views. The documented quote describes them as 00:17:46.220 --> 00:17:48.440 a little freaked out, intimidated, frightened, 00:17:48.660 --> 00:17:51.400 right -wing Republican thin -lipped bitch. Oof. 00:17:51.500 --> 00:17:54.490 Okay. An Amex reaction. They edited the line 00:17:54.490 --> 00:17:56.890 out of the commercial, completely cut it, which 00:17:56.890 --> 00:17:58.789 tells you even a brand that maybe wanted some 00:17:58.789 --> 00:18:01.130 of her edgy appeal felt that crossed a line. 00:18:01.250 --> 00:18:04.170 Too inflammatory risked alienating too many customers. 00:18:04.490 --> 00:18:06.750 So there are commercial limits to the provocation. 00:18:06.809 --> 00:18:09.730 Seems so, but the rhetoric definitely escalated 00:18:09.730 --> 00:18:13.049 again in 2008. This time aimed at Sarah Palin, 00:18:13.130 --> 00:18:14.970 who was running for vice president. Oh, I remember 00:18:14.970 --> 00:18:17.650 this one. This got massive coverage, didn't it? 00:18:17.650 --> 00:18:20.569 And a lot of outrage. Huge. The sources detail 00:18:20.569 --> 00:18:22.930 Bernhard making this public statement where she 00:18:22.930 --> 00:18:26.329 warned Palin. She said Palin would be, quote, 00:18:26.470 --> 00:18:29.569 gang raped by her big black brothers if she visited 00:18:29.569 --> 00:18:32.329 Manhattan. And this was directly tied to a planned 00:18:32.329 --> 00:18:35.690 campaign stop Palin had in New York City. Yes. 00:18:35.710 --> 00:18:38.549 The explicitness of the violence threatened the 00:18:38.549 --> 00:18:42.170 racial element. It was incredibly charged. It 00:18:42.170 --> 00:18:44.529 marked one of the most intense flashpoints in 00:18:44.529 --> 00:18:46.650 her career, really highlighting the risks of 00:18:46.650 --> 00:18:49.109 that completely unfiltered approach to political 00:18:49.109 --> 00:18:51.750 commentary. It's extreme language. Extremely. 00:18:51.789 --> 00:18:53.769 Yeah. And finally, there's an incident that shows 00:18:53.769 --> 00:18:56.490 how these things don't just disappear. In 2020, 00:18:56.809 --> 00:18:58.750 Naomi Campbell brought up comments Bernhardt 00:18:58.750 --> 00:19:00.609 had made years earlier. Naomi Campbell, what 00:19:00.609 --> 00:19:02.789 was the context? Campbell was interviewing Mariah 00:19:02.789 --> 00:19:05.289 Carey, and she specifically called out Bernhardt 00:19:05.289 --> 00:19:07.950 for comments made back in her 1998 comedy show, 00:19:08.089 --> 00:19:11.420 I'm Still Here. About Mariah Carey. About Carey's 00:19:11.420 --> 00:19:14.450 black ancestry, yeah. Campbell cited Bernhard's 00:19:14.450 --> 00:19:17.049 disparaging remarks, and we have to include the 00:19:17.049 --> 00:19:19.529 specific quote documented from Bernhard's show. 00:19:19.849 --> 00:19:23.150 She referred to Carrie, quote, acting real niggerish 00:19:23.150 --> 00:19:25.589 there at the Royalton Hotel suite with Puff Daddy 00:19:25.589 --> 00:19:28.630 and all the greasy, chain -wearing black men. 00:19:28.809 --> 00:19:31.730 Wow. Using that word. Yeah. And having someone 00:19:31.730 --> 00:19:34.349 like Naomi Campbell bring that up publicly over 00:19:34.349 --> 00:19:36.910 20 years later, it just shows that these kinds 00:19:36.910 --> 00:19:39.150 of racially charged, controversial statements, 00:19:39.349 --> 00:19:42.890 they have a long shelf life. They stick. It ensures 00:19:42.890 --> 00:19:45.130 that part of her legacy, the controversial side, 00:19:45.269 --> 00:19:48.049 remains very much a live issue. So despite all 00:19:48.049 --> 00:19:50.970 the controversies, or maybe in some ways connected 00:19:50.970 --> 00:19:53.509 to her willingness to challenge norms, her work 00:19:53.509 --> 00:19:56.369 has undeniably been important for LGBTQ plus 00:19:56.369 --> 00:19:59.410 visibility. Oh, absolutely. Bernhard openly identifies 00:19:59.410 --> 00:20:01.950 as bisexual, and she's been a really strong, 00:20:02.049 --> 00:20:04.730 consistent supporter of LGBTQ rights and activism 00:20:04.730 --> 00:20:06.589 throughout her career. And that commitment was 00:20:06.589 --> 00:20:08.289 recognized formally, wasn't it? She received 00:20:08.289 --> 00:20:11.990 an award from Gialatti. Yeah. In 2002, the Gilead 00:20:11.990 --> 00:20:15.910 Media Davidson Valentini Award. It's given specifically 00:20:15.910 --> 00:20:19.230 to an openly LGBTQ person in the media who's 00:20:19.230 --> 00:20:21.730 made a real difference in promoting equality 00:20:21.730 --> 00:20:26.089 and acceptance. So her identity, her art, her 00:20:26.089 --> 00:20:29.049 activism, they seem completely intertwined. And 00:20:29.049 --> 00:20:31.190 her personal life, her family structure also 00:20:31.190 --> 00:20:33.390 seems to reflect a kind of nontraditional path, 00:20:33.609 --> 00:20:36.000 maybe. Well, she has a daughter, Cicely, born 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:39.279 July 4th, 1998. Right. And the sources are clear 00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:41.539 that she raised Cicely with her long -term partner, 00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:44.220 Sarah Switzer. They've been together since 1999. 00:20:44.460 --> 00:20:47.319 So over 20 years. That's a long, committed relationship. 00:20:47.799 --> 00:20:50.519 It is. A very stable family life, it seems, alongside 00:20:50.519 --> 00:20:53.539 this incredibly public, often tumultuous career, 00:20:53.740 --> 00:20:56.180 which is another one of those interesting Bernhard 00:20:56.180 --> 00:20:58.359 paradoxes. And before Sarah Switzer, she was 00:20:58.359 --> 00:21:00.359 in a relationship with Patricia Velasquez, the 00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:02.539 Venezuelan actress. That's noted, too. Yes. And 00:21:02.539 --> 00:21:04.539 besides the state. and screen she's also an author 00:21:04.539 --> 00:21:06.700 she's written books ensuring she gets to tell 00:21:06.700 --> 00:21:09.140 her own story in her own words right she has 00:21:09.140 --> 00:21:11.299 three books out there the first was an autobiography 00:21:11.299 --> 00:21:14.240 confessions of a pretty lady back in 1989 right 00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:16.779 when her fame was really exploding okay then 00:21:16.779 --> 00:21:19.299 an essay collection love love and love came out 00:21:19.299 --> 00:21:23.839 in 1993 and later in 1999 sort of semi -autobiography 00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:26.559 called may i kiss you on the lips miss sandra 00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:31.339 so there is comedy music film print She's always 00:21:31.339 --> 00:21:33.200 been focused on crafting and controlling her 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:35.400 own narrative, hasn't she? Leaving you in no 00:21:35.400 --> 00:21:38.279 doubt about her perspective. Hashtag, hashtag 00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:42.299 outro. Okay, so wrapping this all up, synthesizing 00:21:42.299 --> 00:21:44.839 everything we've looked at today. Syringa Bernhardt 00:21:44.839 --> 00:21:47.279 emerges as this artist who is just fundamentally 00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:49.630 defined by her willingness to provoke. Right. 00:21:49.769 --> 00:21:51.490 Yeah, I think that's fair. And that willingness, 00:21:51.650 --> 00:21:54.109 that edge, it's allowed her to stay relevant 00:21:54.109 --> 00:21:57.150 somehow across five decades, which is remarkable 00:21:57.150 --> 00:21:58.849 in itself. It really is. And it seems like her 00:21:58.849 --> 00:22:01.230 biggest successes often come when she manages 00:22:01.230 --> 00:22:03.369 to blend that satirical edge, that unfiltered 00:22:03.369 --> 00:22:06.109 commentary with her actual dramatic or musical 00:22:06.109 --> 00:22:08.809 talent, whether it's on stage in the 80s or on 00:22:08.809 --> 00:22:11.369 a prestige TV show now. I think what really stands 00:22:11.369 --> 00:22:13.569 out looking at all this source material isn't 00:22:13.569 --> 00:22:15.789 just the sheer amount of work, but her adaptability. 00:22:16.089 --> 00:22:19.339 She pivots. She changes platforms. Somehow, she 00:22:19.339 --> 00:22:21.819 never really softens that core identity. You 00:22:21.819 --> 00:22:25.240 think about the journey, the intense drama of 00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:28.400 King of Comedy, then the raw, boundary -breaking 00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:31.000 humor of those one -woman shows, the Grammy nomination, 00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:34.619 and then landing these really significant, resonant 00:22:34.619 --> 00:22:38.240 roles in shows like Pose, reflecting modern queer 00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:41.640 culture. The constant thread through all of it 00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:46.039 is that voice. Unwavering. Unapologetic. no matter 00:22:46.039 --> 00:22:47.720 the medium. It really makes you think about her 00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:50.680 overall contribution. We talked about how important 00:22:50.680 --> 00:22:53.220 Nancy on Roseanne was for bisexual visibility 00:22:53.220 --> 00:22:56.160 on TV back then. We know about the music, the 00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:59.980 dance hits, the standards, the books, the comedy 00:22:59.980 --> 00:23:02.000 specials. It's an incredibly diverse portfolio. 00:23:02.440 --> 00:23:04.640 So here's maybe a final thought for you, the 00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:06.779 listener, to chew on. We've seen this huge range. 00:23:07.339 --> 00:23:10.039 Author, actress, singer, comedian. Does that 00:23:10.039 --> 00:23:12.420 prove she successfully avoided being pigeonholed 00:23:12.420 --> 00:23:14.380 her whole career? Yeah. That she really is all 00:23:14.380 --> 00:23:18.140 those things equally? Or does the sheer intensity, 00:23:18.220 --> 00:23:21.180 the undeniable notoriety of her public persona 00:23:21.180 --> 00:23:23.759 and those controversies, does that ultimately 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:26.279 define her legacy more powerfully than the actual 00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:29.019 breadth and diversity of her artistic work? It's 00:23:29.019 --> 00:23:29.500 a tough question.