Welcome to the Deep Dive. Today we're going to
jump right in and really focus on an actor whose
career I think is just a fascinating example
of like successful comedic branding. We're talking
about someone whose face you know you instantly
recognize but maybe his biggest achievement wasn't
becoming a huge star but more like mastering
one very specific, very marketable character
type. Yeah, absolutely. Our mission today is
really to dig into the career of Robert Anderson
Hubel. He navigated the whole comedy world by
being, well, consistently in... frankly, brilliantly
unlikable on screen. Right. It's this amazing
path, really. He went from wanting to work in
an ad agency, sell you stuff, to being that guy
on screen who just makes you want to throw something
at the TV sometime. And that's exactly what grabbed
us for this deep dive, that specific recognition
he got for this niche. We found this description
cited from Entertainment Weekly, December 2022.
Oh, yeah. What did it say? It called him, completely
seriously, the premier D -bag character actor
of his generation. Wow. Okay. That's quite a
title. Isn't it? It says so much about how consistent
he was, how successful he was in that lane. It
really does. It's like the highest possible praise
for the lowest possible character type, you know?
Totally. So, yeah, we're going to trace how this
guy, born June 4th, 1969, managed to not just
play this role, but kind of institutionalize
it across sketch, improv, TV. So to really get
it, we need to go back, start with that shift
he made from like a pretty structured path towards
something else entirely. Exactly. Let's unpack
that. The move from marketing to improv. Okay.
So basics first. Where's he from? He was born
in Alexandria, Virginia. Grew up there. Went
to Annandale High School. Right. And then college.
And then South, the Clemson University in South
Carolina. Okay. Clemson. And this is where it
gets interesting, right? Because he wasn't studying
acting or anything like that. No, not at all.
Yeah. This is where the past really takes a turn.
He studied marketing. Yeah. His original ambition,
his goal was totally corporate advertising. He
wanted to be the guy crafting the pitches, the
branding. Yeah. You know, the whole communication
strategy thing. That marketing background feels
so important now looking back. It's kind of perfect,
isn't it? It really is. Why do you think that
specific training, you know, identifying what
people want, finding market gaps helped him so
much in comedy later? Well, I think, you know.
Character comedy, especially the kind he does,
it's almost like market research in a way. Huh.
Explain that. When you study marketing, you learn
about demographics, target audiences. This is
key pain points. What annoys people? What are
the universal frustrations? Okay. And that D
-bag archetype that Hubel just perfected, basically
the embodiment of a modern pain point, right?
Yeah. That overly confident, maybe kind of toxic
authority figure we all run into. Yeah, definitely.
So his marketing degree probably gave him this
like... disciplined way to see that gap in the
comedy market yeah and then he branded himself
to fill it over and over again it wasn't just
about being funny it was like product differentiation
he became the go -to product for that specific
comedic need that makes so much sense he didn't
just stumble into playing the jerk he kind of
engineered the perfect jerk for the kind of comedies
being made pretty much but the actual change
the pivot point was when he moved to new york
city and started taking classes at UCB, Upright
Citizens Brigade. Right, the legendary UCB theater.
And here's another interesting detail from our
sources. He was 27 when he first started doing
improv there. 27. That feels maybe a little late
to start in comedy, especially in New York. It
can be seen that way, yeah. A lot of people jump
in right out of college. early 20s. But I actually
think that might have been an advantage for him.
How so? Well, he wasn't coming in totally raw.
He had some professional experience, maybe a
more disciplined approach from, you know, thinking
about marketing and producing and just a more
kind of adult perspective, maybe. Yeah. Rather
than just pure 21 year old chaos energy. Yeah.
And that slightly older viewpoint, it probably
helped him nail those like jaded. slightly world
-weary authority figures he plays so well that
more sort of business -like approach seems to
show up early on too even before he was really
known for acting he was working behind the scenes
in production exactly he did have those early
acting bits yeah sketches on late night with
Conan O 'Brien, and he was in a few episodes
of the actual Upright Citizens Brigade TV show
back in, like, 98, 99. Right. But the producing
stuff, the non -acting roles, that really shows
his early discipline, I think. He wasn't just,
you know, waiting tables between improv sets.
He was actively producing television. Like what?
Well, he got an Emmy nomination as a producer
for Michael Moore's show on Bravo, The Awful
Truth. Seriously, an Emmy nod for producing.
Yep. That was for about 12 episodes around the
year 2000. That's, you know, high stakes documentary
TV production, not fluff. Wow. That is a rigorous
environment. Making documentary TV, especially
something like Moore's Stuff or news comedy,
it requires so much precision. Deadlines, facts.
Totally. Intense precision. And think about how
that shapes a comedian. Well, improv can be loose,
chaotic. Yeah. But the kind of sketch comedy
he ended up doing, like Human Giant or Children's
Hospital. It's very disciplined. It's game -based.
Right. Working on The Awful Truth. And then he
also worked as a segment producer on The Daily
Show with Jon Stewart for a bit. Oh, Daily Show
too. Yeah, around 2000, 2001. That kind of work
teaches you timing. It teaches you how to boil
things down, make sharp points fast. Every line,
every cut has to land perfectly in news comedy.
Okay. So that training probably helped him make
sure his character choices, even the really absurd
ones, were... always like surgically precise
he served the joke perfectly so he's got this
production discipline this precision but he's
still deep in the ucb world that creative chaos
exactly and that's where those really crucial
comedy partnerships started to form the biggest
one probably being his long collaboration with
Rob Riggle. Ah, yes. Riggle and Hubel. They're
kind of inseparable in that whole UCB story,
aren't they? Totally. They worked together constantly.
They were in the improv group, Respecto Mantel
Band, together. They were just always performing
together at UCB. It's that real ensemble thing
where the chemistry is just, you know. Everything.
And they were clearly seen as a unit. We found
this great little detail. They actually auditioned
for Saturday Night Live together. Oh, wow. I
didn't know that. Yeah. For the 30th season around
2004, 2005, Riggle got hired. Just for one year,
but still. Right. Hubel didn't get cast then.
But just the fact they auditioned as a duo, that
they were considered package deal material for
SNL, that says a lot about how strong their partnership
was perceived back then. Definitely. And it wasn't
just about trying out for big shows. They were
creating their own stuff. Really strong live
work. Their main thing at UCB was this two -man
show called Kung Fu Grip. Kung Fu Grip, I remember
hearing about that. Yeah, it ran for a long time.
It was a big deal at UCB. And it wasn't just
a local hit either. It got showcased at the HBO
Comedy Arts Festival in 2004. Okay, so major
validation. Huge validation. It showed they could
carry a whole show, just the two of them. And
that their comedic rhythm worked on a bigger
stage. And you see that whole UCB network starting
to move together into other projects around that
time. It really was like this collective engine.
For sure. They popped up together in that documentary,
Super High Me. And Hubel was in that mockumentary,
Blackballed. The Bobby Duke story. Yeah. Who
else is in that? He played a character named
Sam Brown, but it also had other UCB folks like
Rob Corddry, Paul Scheer. It really felt like
that whole community was starting to break through
into the mainstream together. And that tight
knit group, that whole UCB ecosystem, it led
directly into some of the shows that really defined
that era of like alternative comedy on TV. We're
moving into his big ensemble breakthroughs now.
OK. And the first huge one where he was right
at the center as a creator, writer and star.
That has to be Human Giant. Absolutely. The MTV
sketch show. Iconic. He is an executive producer,
a writer and obviously an actor. And who were
his partners on that? His co -creators were Aziz
Ansari and Paul Scheer. Also straight out of
that UCB scene. Right. And Human Giant wasn't
just, you know, random sketches. It felt like
a real... distillation of that UCB style that
game of the scene improv thinking but translated
for TV fast paced kind of surreal very high energy
yeah high energy and often built around these
characters with just in intense but totally misplaced
confidence. Yeah. Which is the early version
of that classic Hubel D -bag persona start and
form. Oh, definitely. And he was brilliant at
those characters. Super awkward, but acting like
they own the place. You got to mention Samir
from the Shudderbugs. Oh, classic. The ultimate
oblivious, self -important guy trying way too
hard to be cool. And TC Everwood. From the Clell
Tickle sketches. Yeah. Just that intense commitment
to the absolute absurdity of it all. Hilarious,
but also kind of sad. Yeah, those roles really
showed his range within that type. Physical commitment,
the voice work, all the tools you need for great
character acting. But the show that really cemented
him, gave him that signature long -lasting role,
that was Children's Hospital on Adult Swim. Ah,
yes. Children's Hospital. The Medical Show parody,
co -starring with another UCB guy, Rob Corddry.
Right. And he played Dr. Owen Maestro. For, get
this, 79 episodes. Wow, 79. That's a long run
from 2008 to 2016. Yeah. And crucially, again,
he wasn't just an actor for hire. He was a writer
on the show, too. Which means he had a hand in
shaping that character, the tone. Exactly. He
had ownership. And Dr. Owen Maestro, he's like
the archetype perfected. The absolute parody
of every serious TV doctor trope. Totally. Overly
dramatic. Completely self -aggrandizing. Nothing
kind of misogynistic. And just like love. by
absolutely no one but himself but the comedy
is just the sheer level of his incompetence mixed
with his absolute rock solid belief in his own
genius it's the perfect showcase for the hubel
brain it really is and that character was so
strong so central that he brought him back for
the spin -off series medical police right appeared
in all 10 episodes of that in 2020. just shows
you dr maestro's specific flavor of arrogant
idiocy was essential to that whole world's comedy
dna What's cool, though, is even while he's building
this big TV career, becoming known for these
produced shows, he stayed connected to the live
comedy scene. Yeah, that's really important,
I think. He kept performing regularly at the
UCB Theater in L .A. Yeah. Still does, I believe.
That dedication, it stops you from getting rusty,
you know? Keeps that improv muzzle strong. He
co -hosts that live sketch show Crash Test with
Paul Scheer. They do it like... Twice a month.
Sounds right. Yeah. It shows that those partnerships
are still active, still generating new stuff
constantly. And Crash Test was successful enough
on its own that they made a TV movie out of it
in 2015. And let me guess, Hubel was a writer
and executive producer on that, too. You got
it. He clearly understands that live performance
feeds the development process. It's where ideas
get tested. But there's another live project
he does that sounds unique, really gives you
insight into his whole comedy brain. It's called
The Shit Show. Ah, yes. The Shit Show. It's brilliant.
It's not just stand -up. It's almost like performance
art about failure. Okay, tell us the concept,
because it sounds amazing. So he will host it,
and he gets his comedian friends, and these are
often really well -known, successful people,
to come on stage and present the worst scenes
they have ever done. From movies, TV, commercials,
whatever professional work they regret the most.
Wow. So it's like a public airing of your failures.
Exactly. It's a celebration of the creative misfire.
Think about the confidence, the lack of ego.
You need to voluntarily get up and show people
your worst work. That's genius. Because the second
you perform your failure like that. You own it.
It takes the sting out. It becomes comedy gold
instantly. Totally. It's like the ultimate UCB
yes and approach, right? Even to the end is this
commercial I did was a complete disaster. It
turns professional embarrassment into relatable
comedy, which is a skill anyone who takes risks
needs. OK, so now we got to really focus on the
main pillar of his career, right? The thing that
Entertainment Weekly, quote, nailed. The consistent,
almost surgical deployment of that D -bag character.
persona right his whole success is built on being
the most reliable guy you can cast when you need
someone the audience is meant to instantly like
distrust or dislike or maybe even pity a little
exactly let's try and break it down a bit maybe
thematically not just listing roles but thinking
about how he plays these types connecting it
back to that branding idea okay so one big category
seems to be like The corporate obstructionist.
Or maybe the petty authority figure. Yeah, I
like that. Characters who just embody minor bureaucratic
tyranny. Like his role is John Calabasas on the
Goldbergs. He was in like 11 episodes of that.
Plus he came back for the spinoff. Schooled.
What was that character like? Just the classic
kind of clueless middle management type who thinks
he's way cooler and more important than he actually
is. And Hubel has this specific physicality for
those roles sometimes. Shoulders back. maybe
slightly up. Yeah. Projecting that false confidence.
Right. It instantly signals, I think I'm important
and I'm probably going to waste your time. You
see that same kind of energy in those quick guest
spots, too, where the character needs to create
immediate low -level friction, like Glenn Whipple
on Modern Family or Landon Lawson on Brooklyn
Nine -Nine. Exactly. Those characters just walk
into a scene and throw off the balance just by
being themselves, usually by being really annoying
about some minor rule or just their own inflated
sense of status. And sometimes there's this,
like, detached quality to it, too. It's not always
big and loud. Right. Like how we played Gary
on Black. over a few episodes, or Officer Chandler
in the movie The House, it's often not broad
comedy. It's the quiet, self -satisfied smirk
that really gets under your skin. Okay, so that's
one type. What's another major category for his
debaggery? Well, there's the romantic or social
obstructionist. You know, the guy who's in the
way of the main character's happiness. The one
the audience is actively rooting against. Oh,
okay. The prime example here, the one everyone
probably remembers, has got to be AJ from The
Office. Oh, definitely. Holly's boyfriend for
those few episodes. Perfect casting. Why was
he perfect? Because AJ needed to be just. Plausible
enough as a boyfriend, right? And not a monster,
but also just irritating enough that you were
desperate for him to be gone so Michael and Holly
could finally get together. Yeah. And Hubel plead
him with this, like, accessible but subtly superior
vibe. Yeah. The kind of guy who quietly corrects
you or explains things you already know. This
subtle mansplainer. Kinda, yeah. And he thinks
he's winning just by being calmer. It's infuriating.
And he did a similar thing, maybe a bit more
overtly annoying, on How I Met Your Mother as
Wade Flanagan. Another guy designed just to be
a temporary roadblock for the main characters'
relationships. Exactly. And the skill in Hubel's
performance is that he makes these guys believable.
They're not cartoon villains, just recognizably
annoying people we've all met. Okay, so petty
authority, romantic obstructionist. What's the
third big bucket? I think it's maybe the most
common one for him. The pervasive authority figure.
often playing on his look to suggest a kind of
like privileged entitlement. This is where that
marketing background seems to come back. And
these roles often involve sounding smart, using
jargon, being aggressively confident. OK, give
us an example. Well, his role as Len Novak on
Transparent, that was a recurring role, 28 episodes
on a big Amazon prestige show. Right. And Len
Novak is all about confidence and control tied
directly to his money and social standing. He
just embodies that specific type of casual, often
unintentional male insensitivity that comes with
privilege. And similar vibe on The League, he
played Russell, who later became Dr. Doramo.
Yeah, exactly. Over 10 episodes there. And shows
like Transparent and The League, they love characters
who are flawed, morally gray. Hubel comes in
and provides that specific shade of masculine
self -involvement. He's like the catalyst that
brings out the main character's own bad behavior
sometimes. And it's amazing how he keeps translating
this archetype to new shows, new settings, like
on the sex lives of college girls. He's Mr. Murray.
Right. Eight episodes of that so far. He takes
that same slightly inappropriate, overconfident
guy who maybe uses too much jargon and drops
him onto a college campus. It proves the trope
is basically timeless. He just adapts it. That
adaptability, that consistency. Yeah. It makes
him invaluable, right? Casting directors must
just think, OK, we need that guy. Call Hubel.
Pretty much. They know exactly what they're getting.
A character who walks in, says maybe two lines,
and instantly establishes himself as the annoying
obstacle in the scene. Speaking of instant impact,
we have to talk about some of those brilliant...
one -off guest roles that just cemented the whole
image. Like 30 Rock, the MILF Island host. Oh,
perfection. That is the absolute peak expression
of the archetype, maybe. Aye. Because the MILF
Island host is everything rolled into one. He's
super slick, artificially enthusiastic, seems
totally morally bankrupt. Yeah. And yet completely,
100 % committed to the insane premise of this
fake reality show. Hubel just nails that empty
hyper professional vibe of reality TV hosts who
are like encouraging terrible behavior while
acting like your best friend and boss at the
same time. That ability to capture those small
pervasive annoyances. Even carries into his voice
work, right? And that weird PSA stuff. Totally.
Voice -wise, he was the anchorman in Despicable
Me. He's done a bunch of characters on Bob's
Burgers over 12 episodes. Gray Diamond on Axe
Cop. Mr. Lizer on Big Mouth. And what do those
characters usually have in common? Often they
have some kind of annoying status or they wield
some minor social power in an irritating way,
even as a voice. With a PSA thing. That's wild.
Tell us about that. Right, this is the deep cut
that proves he knows what his brand is and leans
into it. For years, he played the inconsiderate
cell phone man in those public service announcements
they show in movie theaters. No way! The guy
taking the call during the previews. That guy.
He was the face of the single most annoying person
you could possibly encounter in a cinema. It's
like meta -level debaggery. He deliberately took
on the role of the public nuisance for our collective
annoyance. That's amazing. OK, so let's quickly
touch on film because this persona shows up there,
too, even in tiny parts, right from the start.
Oh, yeah. Way back in 2002, he had an uncredited
role in Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine
as a. Corporate criminal. Wow. Uncredited but
already typecast as untrustworthy establishment.
Seems like it. Yeah. And just continues. He's
Tevin Downey in I Love You Man in 2009. Officer
Watts and the other guys in 2010. Even when the
role is just called Sleazy Doctor, like in Little
Fockers. Right. You know exactly the flavor they
hired him for. It's built around that Hebel brand.
And it keeps going in big comedies. Pinkberry
Executive and Horrible Bosses 2. More recently,
A Producer in You People just last year. Yeah.
These are just random parts. It feels like strategic
casting. They need that specific energy, that
foil to make the scenes comedy work. And he delivers
it every time. You know, he's incredibly prolific
on screen, obviously, but he's just as active
off screen, especially in things like podcasting,
which for someone with his improv background
makes total sense. It keeps those skills sharp.
Yeah. Podcasting seems like the perfect place
for that UCB mentality, right? Just constantly
generating material, playing characters. He's
been on comedy. Bang, bang. A ton. Often playing
recurring characters like Dave Crigsby or Larry
Jetsky. It's a format that lets him just... invent
new weirdos constantly keeps his character work
really flexible and he had his own scripted podcast
too didn't he yeah on earwolf yeah mike detective
a whole narrative comedy series which shows you
know he can carry something complex just with
his voice and writing plus he pops up on web
series like guest grumps or good mythical morning
just always collaborating always putting stuff
out there feels like the lifeblood of that ucb
world What's also interesting is how the success
he's had as a performer seems to have fueled
his ambition as a producer and director again.
He's not just acting anymore, he's creating the
whole project more often. Right. This is where
it all comes together, isn't it? The marketing
student, the Emmy -nominated producer from way
back, and the established character actor. He
worked a lot with Funny or Die Presents, acted
in it, sure. but also wrote and executive produced
13 episodes. He learned how to make that short
-form, high -impact digital comedy work. And
then he created his own shows. Yeah. He created,
wrote, and executive produced Do You Want to
See a Dead Body? That ran for 15 episodes, kind
of taking that mockumentary, confrontational
comedy style even further. Okay. And even more
involved was Driveshare. Only six episodes. But
he was the creator, writer, director, and executive
producer on that one. Wow, wearing all the hats.
Yeah, it really seems like he thrives when he
has that full creative control. He can build
the whole comedic situation from the ground up,
define the characters, the tone. It shows he's
not just waiting for roles that fit his type.
He's actively building the comedy worlds he wants
to play in. And all that work, that respect within
the industry, it even led to him co -hosting
the Critics' Choice Awards TV special back in
2012. Right. So he's this respect. Expected industry
insider. Yeah. Who just happens to be best known
for playing the most annoying guy in the room.
It's a great balance. It really is. Yeah. And
that ability to straddle both worlds, the producer
brain and the specific character actor brand,
that's probably key to his longevity. Yeah. He
understands why the D -bag character is structurally
necessary in a comedy just as much as the audience
enjoys hating him. So he can pick the roles that
use his brand perfectly. Okay, so we've spent
all this time building up this image of the character,
right? Hyper -confident, maybe kind of abrasive,
definitely self -involved, professional persona.
He plays so well. But now we need to talk about
the other side, because the deep dive sources
also give us this necessary contrast. The reality
of Rob Pupil's personal life seems incredibly
different, a world away from those characters.
It really is a profound difference. It grounds
everything, I think. He's married to Holly Hanular,
and they have a daughter. Holden, born in 2016.
Right. And the circumstances around her birth,
it sounds like it was an incredibly difficult
time. Extremely difficult. The sources detail
this period of just immense struggle, immense
fear. Holden was born really, really premature
at just 26 weeks. 26 weeks. Wow. That's what,
like 14 weeks early? Yeah. A full -term pregnancy
is around 40 weeks, so born that early. Yeah.
It means immediate intensive medical care is
needed just for survival. The odds, they're scary
at that stage. God. And the reality for them
was just staggering. She spent the first 117
days of her life. 117 days. Yeah. Almost four
months in the neonatal intensive care unit, the
NICU. Four months in the NICU. Just the constant
stress, the anxiety of that day in, day out.
Relying completely on doctors, nurses. That's
got to be the absolute polar opposite of the
kind of insulated, self -absorbed world his characters
usually live in. Totally. That D -bag character
is defined by, like, a lack of empathy, right?
An inability to see beyond his own little bubble
of concerns. And here he is, living through this
incredibly vulnerable human experience. It makes
you think about the kind of resilience you need
for this job. To be going through that, the hospital
environment, the constant worry, the long, uncertain
road. Yeah. And then you have to show up on set.
and deliver a performance as, say, Dr. Owen Maestro,
arguably one of the most narcissistic, self -centered
characters imaginable, that requires extraordinary
compartmentalization. Incredible focus. It really
brings that producer discipline back into focus,
doesn't it? That idea that no matter what's happening
personally, when you're on set, you hit your
mark, you say the line, you serve the comedy.
Exactly. He must have this level of, like, emotional
control that is... just the complete opposite
of the characters he's famous for playing. It
creates this huge distance, doesn't it, between
the performer and the performance? A massive
distance. Those characters he plays, they're
safe for us to laugh at, to mock, because they're
fundamentally superficial, right? They care about
status or money or winning some petty argument.
Meanwhile, the actual guy playing them was dealing
with the most profound, basic realities of life
and death. stripped of any professional status,
just focused on the most fundamental human things.
Yeah, that contrast. It really elevates them
beyond just being a funny guy who plays jerks
well. It shows that the arrogance, the smugness,
the self -importance, it really is just a performance.
An expertly crafted performance by someone whose
real life is grounded in, you know, deep empathy,
resilience, vulnerability. It makes the premier
D -bag surprisingly human. Hashtag tag outro.
So, OK, let's try and wrap this up. Synthesize
this whole journey. When you look at Rob Hubel's
career, it's not just a random series of roles,
right? It feels like this meticulously built
system operating on two tracks at once. Yeah,
I think that's a great way to put it. Track one
is like the foundational guy, the UCB improviser,
the Emmy nominated producer, the guy who collaborates
constantly with Riggle, Sheer, Ansari, Corddry.
Building the infrastructure for these ensemble
shows, fostering talent. That's the track that
provides the discipline, the control, the creative
engine. Okay, track one, the builder, the collaborator.
What's track two? Track two is the brand. The
ubiquitous, instantly recognizable, highly effective,
D -bag character actor. This track uses that
marketing insight we talked about to perfectly
fill a specific niche in the comedy market. He
became the essential ingredient, the necessary
foil for seemingly almost every hit sitcom or
comedy movie of the last, what, two decades?
From The Office all the way to The Sex Lives
of College Girls. Right. And that Entertainment
Weekly quote suddenly makes perfect sense. The
premier D -bag character actor of his generation.
It's not just a funny line. It's actually like
profoundly accurate based on his career path.
Totally accurate. That marketing degree wasn't
just about learning to sell soap. It taught him
how to spot the market demand for that specific
character. The slightly toxic, entitled, but
ultimately funny white male authority figure.
He identified the need, branded himself perfectly,
and then backed it up with incredible consistency
and that producer -level discipline. Yeah. He
really proved that sometimes the biggest success
isn't being the main star. It's becoming the
absolutely indispensable supporting piece, the
one you can't imagine the show without. Which
leaves us, as always, with a final thought, something
for you, the listener, to maybe chew on. Yeah.
So think about this. We just talked about the
profound personal challenges he faced, like those
117 days with his daughter in the NICU, the deep
emotional reality of that. And then consider
his ability to switch gears and perfectly embody
these incredibly shallow, insensitive characters
on screen. Does the way modern comedy works now,
relying so heavily on these instantly recognizable
specialized archetypes, does it actually elevate
the character actor who can deliver that niche
performance with such consistent brilliance?
So are we saying the success of today's best
ensemble comedies might actually depend on having
someone like Hebel? Someone who has absolutely
mastered playing the perfect, universally understood
antagonist with total, unwavering professional
precision? It's a question worth asking, I think.
Next time you're watching something. and that
character walks in, the one designed to be instantly
annoying or obstructive, just take a second.
Think about the skill, the consistency, and maybe
even the personal distance required to nail that
roll so perfectly every single time. What's the
real value of that perfect foil?