WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.879 Welcome to the Deep Dive. Today we're taking 00:00:01.879 --> 00:00:05.179 a, well, a deep cut into 20th century American 00:00:05.179 --> 00:00:08.000 letters. We're going to explore an author who 00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:12.099 critics consistently praise, but who remains, 00:00:12.240 --> 00:00:14.660 you know, largely unknown outside of his one 00:00:14.660 --> 00:00:17.000 big success. That's right. We are talking about 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:20.219 Mark Harris. Yeah, Mark Harris, a novelist, a 00:00:20.219 --> 00:00:23.789 literary biographer, professor. His life was 00:00:23.789 --> 00:00:26.410 just a fascinating mirror of the very themes 00:00:26.410 --> 00:00:28.769 he wrote about. It really was. When most people 00:00:28.769 --> 00:00:30.809 hear the name Mark Harris, if they know it, they 00:00:30.809 --> 00:00:33.909 think, bang the drums lowly. Yeah. That classic 00:00:33.909 --> 00:00:36.369 baseball novel. Exactly. But as we unpack the 00:00:36.369 --> 00:00:39.009 sources today, you find this life just defined 00:00:39.009 --> 00:00:42.289 by like four decades of intense academic work, 00:00:42.409 --> 00:00:44.829 sharp journalism, and this incredible output 00:00:44.829 --> 00:00:46.829 of fiction, really focused on social critique. 00:00:47.070 --> 00:00:49.829 So our mission today is kind of... To move beyond 00:00:49.829 --> 00:00:52.210 the dugout. Totally. Explore the extraordinary, 00:00:52.549 --> 00:00:55.009 you know, multifaceted career of this writer. 00:00:55.130 --> 00:00:57.250 He often felt like he was under the radar, despite 00:00:57.250 --> 00:00:59.270 his talent. And we actually have his own words 00:00:59.270 --> 00:01:01.390 to guide us, which is perfect. He summed up his 00:01:01.390 --> 00:01:03.729 books himself. Oh, yeah. What did he say? He 00:01:03.729 --> 00:01:06.250 said they were, and this is a quote, about the 00:01:06.250 --> 00:01:08.769 one man against his society and trying to come 00:01:08.769 --> 00:01:11.670 to terms with his society and trying to succeed 00:01:11.670 --> 00:01:14.049 within it without losing his own identity or 00:01:14.049 --> 00:01:17.310 integrity. Wow. That's it, isn't it? That tension. 00:01:18.109 --> 00:01:20.870 Success versus moral survival. It feels like 00:01:20.870 --> 00:01:23.590 the engine behind everything he did, every book. 00:01:23.790 --> 00:01:26.230 It's the perfect lens. Born Mark Harris Finkelstein, 00:01:26.469 --> 00:01:30.209 Mount Vernon, New York, 1922. Right. And yeah, 00:01:30.290 --> 00:01:33.010 he crafted the famous Henry Wiggin Quartet, those 00:01:33.010 --> 00:01:35.189 baseball novels. Banging the drum slowly, the 00:01:35.189 --> 00:01:37.650 big one. Lived a long, productive life. Passed 00:01:37.650 --> 00:01:40.670 away in Santa Barbara back in 2007, age 84. Right. 00:01:41.250 --> 00:01:44.209 But to really get that integrity piece he championed, 00:01:44.209 --> 00:01:46.209 we have to start right at the beginning. with 00:01:46.209 --> 00:01:48.230 this kind of foundational conflict that really 00:01:48.230 --> 00:01:50.069 kicked off his career. Okay, let's do that. Let's 00:01:50.069 --> 00:01:52.230 unpack this theme, identity, the price of integrity. 00:01:52.430 --> 00:01:54.230 Go right back to 1940. He's just out of high 00:01:54.230 --> 00:01:56.590 school looking for work. What's the first big 00:01:56.590 --> 00:01:59.329 defining act? It's a huge one. He changes his 00:01:59.329 --> 00:02:02.689 name. Born Mark Harris Finkelstein. In 1940, 00:02:02.849 --> 00:02:05.750 right after graduation, drops the Finkelstein 00:02:05.750 --> 00:02:09.229 completely. Just becomes Mark Harris. Wow. Okay. 00:02:09.530 --> 00:02:12.849 And do the sources give explicit reasons for 00:02:12.849 --> 00:02:14.669 this? I mean, that's a pretty dramatic step. 00:02:14.949 --> 00:02:17.199 Oh, yeah. It wasn't casual. It was presented 00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:20.460 as, well, a professional necessity driven by 00:02:20.460 --> 00:02:23.379 prejudice, basically. OK. He stated pretty explicitly 00:02:23.379 --> 00:02:26.240 that he dropped the surname because, and this 00:02:26.240 --> 00:02:28.460 is his reasoning, it was a difficult time for 00:02:28.460 --> 00:02:31.180 kids with Jewish names to get jobs. Right. So 00:02:31.180 --> 00:02:33.860 right at the start, launching his career. Yeah. 00:02:33.960 --> 00:02:36.539 He has to make this compromise. A profound one. 00:02:36.960 --> 00:02:39.520 To succeed in the very society he's about to 00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:42.460 spend his life critiquing, he first has to mask 00:02:42.460 --> 00:02:44.909 a core part of his identity. That sets such a 00:02:44.909 --> 00:02:47.669 tone, doesn't it? The central theme of his life's 00:02:47.669 --> 00:02:51.030 work, succeeding without losing integrity. It's 00:02:51.030 --> 00:02:53.650 immediately complicated by this, you know, pragmatic 00:02:53.650 --> 00:02:56.270 sacrifice just to get in the door. Absolutely. 00:02:56.449 --> 00:02:58.889 It must have given him this deep, almost painful 00:02:58.889 --> 00:03:01.449 awareness of those social barriers. Yeah. Baked 00:03:01.449 --> 00:03:03.669 in from day one. He knew what society demanded, 00:03:03.909 --> 00:03:07.150 what the cost was. Exactly. But at the same time, 00:03:07.150 --> 00:03:09.930 you see this other side developing, this intense 00:03:09.930 --> 00:03:13.169 devotion to truth, to observation. And it starts 00:03:13.169 --> 00:03:14.990 really early. You're talking about the diary? 00:03:15.250 --> 00:03:18.610 The diary. It's almost unbelievable. The sources 00:03:18.610 --> 00:03:20.509 say he started keeping a daily diary when he 00:03:20.509 --> 00:03:23.590 was just 11 years old. 11. 11. And what's truly 00:03:23.590 --> 00:03:27.430 astonishing is he kept it up every single day 00:03:27.430 --> 00:03:30.500 for the rest of his life. Wait, every day? No 00:03:30.500 --> 00:03:32.719 breaks. Every single day. We're talking over 00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:35.860 seven decades of continuous writing, self -analysis, 00:03:35.860 --> 00:03:37.900 recording detail. It's a sort of credible dedication. 00:03:38.300 --> 00:03:40.340 It really is. Yeah. And you can see how that 00:03:40.340 --> 00:03:43.560 kind of commitment to introspection, to precise 00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:46.919 documentation becomes the bedrock for his writing 00:03:46.919 --> 00:03:50.939 style later. That very grounded, realist. A writer 00:03:50.939 --> 00:03:53.060 who commits to that kind of meticulous record 00:03:53.060 --> 00:03:55.740 for 70 years. That's someone who believes deeply 00:03:55.740 --> 00:03:58.039 in observed truth. Absolutely. And this need 00:03:58.039 --> 00:04:00.680 to confront reality, document it. It gets tested 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:02.919 almost immediately by the war. Right. World War 00:04:02.919 --> 00:04:05.340 II. Harris gets drafted into the U .S. Army, 00:04:05.500 --> 00:04:10.460 January 1943. And his experience there, it quickly 00:04:10.460 --> 00:04:12.539 becomes this crucible. Well, he wasn't just, 00:04:12.599 --> 00:04:15.099 you know, a reluctant soldier. He developed this 00:04:15.099 --> 00:04:17.800 serious growing opposition to the war itself. 00:04:18.360 --> 00:04:21.339 And that gets compounded, really exacerbated 00:04:21.339 --> 00:04:24.379 by his anger over the racial discrimination he 00:04:24.379 --> 00:04:26.920 saw, pervasive in the army at the time. OK, so 00:04:26.920 --> 00:04:30.279 this deep moral political outrage, it doesn't 00:04:30.279 --> 00:04:32.639 just sit there. He acts on it. He does, dramatically, 00:04:32.959 --> 00:04:34.959 which tells you a lot about his commitment to 00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:37.060 that integrity idea, even when it's risky. What 00:04:37.060 --> 00:04:39.439 did he do? He chose confrontation. In February 00:04:39.439 --> 00:04:43.449 1944, he went AWOL, absent without leave. from 00:04:43.449 --> 00:04:46.209 Camp Wheeler, Georgia. Oh, during wartime. That's 00:04:46.209 --> 00:04:48.689 serious. Very serious. And it wasn't just, you 00:04:48.689 --> 00:04:50.589 know, skipping out for a bit. It seems like it 00:04:50.589 --> 00:04:53.089 was a deliberate act of protest, defiance against 00:04:53.089 --> 00:04:55.189 the military structure, which for him probably 00:04:55.189 --> 00:04:57.350 represented that rigid discriminatory society 00:04:57.350 --> 00:05:00.430 he already felt alienated from. Wow. Okay, so 00:05:00.430 --> 00:05:02.569 what happens? High stakes move. He gets arrested 00:05:02.569 --> 00:05:05.129 pretty quickly, but then crucially he's hospitalized. 00:05:05.209 --> 00:05:08.449 The official diagnosis was psychoneurosis. Okay. 00:05:08.529 --> 00:05:11.750 But here's the key detail, the outcome. He receives 00:05:11.750 --> 00:05:15.600 an honorable discharge. April 1944. An honorable 00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:19.319 discharge? After going AWOL and being hospitalized 00:05:19.319 --> 00:05:22.139 for psychoneurosis? Exactly. That is fascinating 00:05:22.139 --> 00:05:25.240 in itself. It's like he navigated the system, 00:05:25.300 --> 00:05:28.100 he challenged it to the breaking point, but somehow 00:05:28.100 --> 00:05:30.920 emerged with his reputation, his honor, intact. 00:05:31.279 --> 00:05:33.720 It almost perfectly mirrors that theme you mentioned. 00:05:33.959 --> 00:05:36.680 The individual versus society, finding a way. 00:05:36.779 --> 00:05:39.279 Yeah. The lived contradiction. That must have 00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:42.019 fueled his art. Absolutely. He found a way to 00:05:42.019 --> 00:05:45.100 resist, and that experience becomes immediate 00:05:45.100 --> 00:05:47.959 raw material. His first novel, Trumpet to the 00:05:47.959 --> 00:05:50.339 World, comes out in 1946. Just two years after 00:05:50.339 --> 00:05:53.500 his discharge. Right. And that book, along with 00:05:53.500 --> 00:05:56.459 something about a soldier later in 57, they directly 00:05:56.459 --> 00:05:59.339 channel that wartime experience, the outrage 00:05:59.339 --> 00:06:02.180 over racial injustice, the military rigidity. 00:06:02.490 --> 00:06:04.870 So his early life is just this intense period, 00:06:05.170 --> 00:06:07.810 social friction, dropping the name, going AWOL, 00:06:07.829 --> 00:06:10.370 and every conflict just pours straight into his 00:06:10.370 --> 00:06:12.370 fiction. You got it. The struggle isn't just 00:06:12.370 --> 00:06:14.689 his theme, it's his autobiography in a way. It 00:06:14.689 --> 00:06:17.790 makes the writing feel so necessary, not abstract 00:06:17.790 --> 00:06:20.769 at all. Exactly. It's processed directly from 00:06:20.769 --> 00:06:23.670 lived experience under duress. That pressure 00:06:23.670 --> 00:06:27.220 cooker defined his voice. Realist. critic that 00:06:27.220 --> 00:06:30.300 intensity is amazing especially when you think 00:06:30.300 --> 00:06:32.459 about how unstable his professional life was 00:06:32.459 --> 00:06:34.899 right after the war oh completely let's trace 00:06:34.899 --> 00:06:38.220 that this next phase he's juggling everything 00:06:38.220 --> 00:06:41.759 right journalism academia trying to be a novelist 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:44.579 the sources really paint a picture of just relentless 00:06:44.579 --> 00:06:48.199 hustle after the discharge in april 44 he jumps 00:06:48.199 --> 00:06:51.850 right into journalism May 44, the daily item 00:06:51.850 --> 00:06:53.949 in Port Chester, New York. But it doesn't stick, 00:06:54.189 --> 00:06:57.449 right? No, stability was elusive. Constantly 00:06:57.449 --> 00:06:59.750 moving, changing roles. He goes to New York City, 00:06:59.889 --> 00:07:02.509 works for PM, that progressive newspaper. Right, 00:07:02.610 --> 00:07:04.029 I've heard of that one. Short -lived, though. 00:07:04.189 --> 00:07:05.930 Yeah, and he was only there two months before 00:07:05.930 --> 00:07:08.670 getting fired. Fired, okay. Suggest maybe a clash 00:07:08.670 --> 00:07:11.110 or just that restless idealism, maybe. Could 00:07:11.110 --> 00:07:13.709 be. The instability continues. But you have to 00:07:13.709 --> 00:07:15.990 think, this is phenomenal training for a novelist 00:07:15.990 --> 00:07:18.610 aiming for realism. Right, good point. Where 00:07:18.610 --> 00:07:21.040 next? St. Louis. International News Service, 00:07:21.180 --> 00:07:25.079 July 45. And it's there, amidst all this chaos, 00:07:25.339 --> 00:07:28.279 that he meets Josephine Horan, his co -worker. 00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:32.220 And marries her. Yep. March 1946. But even that 00:07:32.220 --> 00:07:34.319 connection doesn't really anchor the job situation. 00:07:34.660 --> 00:07:37.839 He resigns just four months later. Wow. That 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:40.779 sounds exhausting, constant flux. Geographically, 00:07:40.779 --> 00:07:42.600 professionally. It really was. An intense grind. 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:46.019 Basically up until 1948, we see him pop up in 00:07:46.019 --> 00:07:47.600 Albuquerque writing for the Albuquerque Journal. 00:07:47.699 --> 00:07:49.829 Okay. Then Chicago. And this is interesting. 00:07:49.870 --> 00:07:51.610 He's writing for publications focused on black 00:07:51.610 --> 00:07:55.189 life like Negro Digest and Ebony. Ah, so that 00:07:55.189 --> 00:07:57.230 commitment to social justice, the stuff that 00:07:57.230 --> 00:08:00.189 fueled his AWOL protest, it's showing up in his 00:08:00.189 --> 00:08:02.329 journalism choices, too. Absolutely. It's consistent. 00:08:02.449 --> 00:08:04.230 And then finally, back to the York for the Park 00:08:04.230 --> 00:08:06.470 Row News Service. OK, we need to pause here because 00:08:06.470 --> 00:08:09.149 while he's doing this frantic short term journalism 00:08:09.149 --> 00:08:12.089 scramble, moving, getting fired, moving again, 00:08:12.269 --> 00:08:15.490 he somehow finishes and publishes his first novel. 00:08:16.139 --> 00:08:19.300 Trumpet to the World. Right. 1946. That says 00:08:19.300 --> 00:08:21.060 everything about his commitment, doesn't it? 00:08:21.079 --> 00:08:23.519 The literary mission was just non -negotiable, 00:08:23.579 --> 00:08:26.920 even when his life was completely unstable. That's 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:29.279 the core commitment. And, you know, the journalism 00:08:29.279 --> 00:08:32.659 itself, even if it was chaotic, must have fed 00:08:32.659 --> 00:08:34.720 the writing immensely. Bouncing around cities, 00:08:34.860 --> 00:08:37.669 different communities, writing for Ebony. That 00:08:37.669 --> 00:08:40.570 gives you a raw, unvarnished look at America. 00:08:40.830 --> 00:08:43.269 Yeah, the foundation for that authenticity his 00:08:43.269 --> 00:08:45.889 novels are known for. Definitely. And it seems 00:08:45.889 --> 00:08:48.990 like that period of intense, maybe draining realism 00:08:48.990 --> 00:08:52.830 spurred a change, a strategic pivot. Towards 00:08:52.830 --> 00:08:55.070 something more structured. Exactly. The journalism 00:08:55.070 --> 00:08:57.730 hustle finally leads him to academia. February 00:08:57.730 --> 00:09:00.289 1948, he enrolls at the University of Denver. 00:09:00.789 --> 00:09:03.210 Big shift. He gets his master's in English in 00:09:03.210 --> 00:09:05.950 51. And he kept going. Oh, yeah. He clearly saw 00:09:05.950 --> 00:09:08.649 the value in deep scholarly grounding. He gets 00:09:08.649 --> 00:09:10.649 a Ph .D. in American Studies in the University 00:09:10.649 --> 00:09:13.769 of Minnesota. Finishes that in 56. And his Ph 00:09:13.769 --> 00:09:16.409 .D. topic. That's really revealing, isn't it? 00:09:16.429 --> 00:09:18.509 About his politics, his interests. Absolutely. 00:09:18.549 --> 00:09:20.590 His dissertation was on Randolph Bourne. The 00:09:20.590 --> 00:09:23.379 progressive writer. Yeah, the intellectual. Bourne 00:09:23.379 --> 00:09:25.519 was famous for opposing U .S. involvement in 00:09:25.519 --> 00:09:28.519 World War I. His essay, War is the Health of 00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:32.259 the State, huge critique of how war empowers 00:09:32.259 --> 00:09:35.299 government, suppresses dissent. So for Harris, 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:39.120 who went AWOL during war, choosing Bourne is 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:41.539 like this massive academic validation of his 00:09:41.539 --> 00:09:44.360 own lifelong stance, the individual resisting 00:09:44.360 --> 00:09:47.129 the state. It's a perfect connection. He's using 00:09:47.129 --> 00:09:49.230 his academic platform to kind of legitimize the 00:09:49.230 --> 00:09:51.570 very conflict he lived through. And after the 00:09:51.570 --> 00:09:54.610 doctorate, he moves into teaching. A really long 00:09:54.610 --> 00:09:56.669 career as an educator. How long are we talking? 00:09:56.929 --> 00:10:00.250 Nearly five decades. Starts September 56, San 00:10:00.250 --> 00:10:02.649 Francisco State College. He stays there for 11 00:10:02.649 --> 00:10:05.730 years until 67. That must have felt like incredible 00:10:05.730 --> 00:10:07.730 stability after all the earlier moving around. 00:10:07.850 --> 00:10:09.889 11 years in one place, yeah. But then he's since 00:10:09.889 --> 00:10:12.370 moving again within academia this time. Seems 00:10:12.370 --> 00:10:15.220 like it. A succession of... Pretty major university 00:10:15.220 --> 00:10:18.340 posts, but often shorter stays. Purdue, 67 to 00:10:18.340 --> 00:10:20.919 70. Okay. California Institute of the Arts, 70 00:10:20.919 --> 00:10:23.539 to 73. University of Southern California, 73 00:10:23.539 --> 00:10:26.779 to 75. University of Pittsburgh, 76 to 80. So 00:10:26.779 --> 00:10:29.000 he's circulating through some big writing programs. 00:10:29.460 --> 00:10:32.360 Highly sought after, clearly. Definitely. Reflects 00:10:32.360 --> 00:10:34.419 his growing reputation as both a writer and a 00:10:34.419 --> 00:10:36.779 professor. And where did he finally land his 00:10:36.779 --> 00:10:39.259 longest academic home? That was Arizona State 00:10:39.259 --> 00:10:43.110 University, ASU. He joins the faculty there in 00:10:43.110 --> 00:10:45.950 September 1980, professor of English, mostly 00:10:45.950 --> 00:10:48.350 teaching creative writing, and he stays there 00:10:48.350 --> 00:10:52.049 until he retires in 2001. 21 years. Wow. Yeah. 00:10:52.490 --> 00:10:55.950 So 21 years nurturing the next generation. It's 00:10:55.950 --> 00:10:57.950 such a contrast to that chaotic start in journalism, 00:10:58.110 --> 00:11:00.830 isn't it? It's a really powerful trajectory from 00:11:00.830 --> 00:11:04.169 frantic newsrooms to revered tenured professor. 00:11:04.590 --> 00:11:06.970 What do we know about his philosophy of writing 00:11:06.970 --> 00:11:09.350 during this academic time? How he saw the writer 00:11:09.350 --> 00:11:12.049 and reader? We get a fantastic insight, actually, 00:11:12.129 --> 00:11:14.830 thanks to the literary critic Wayne Seaboo. Oh, 00:11:14.850 --> 00:11:16.809 yeah. From the rhetoric of fiction. That's the 00:11:16.809 --> 00:11:20.190 one. In that really influential 1961 book. Booth 00:11:20.190 --> 00:11:23.049 actually quotes Harris, calls him a fine young 00:11:23.049 --> 00:11:25.529 novelist. OK. And he uses Harris to illustrate 00:11:25.529 --> 00:11:28.149 this core principle about narrative style and 00:11:28.149 --> 00:11:29.909 what readers should expect. And this goes right 00:11:29.909 --> 00:11:32.649 back to his realism, rejecting handholding. Exactly. 00:11:33.429 --> 00:11:35.809 Harris's quote was, you will no more expect the 00:11:35.809 --> 00:11:37.590 novelist to tell you precisely how something 00:11:37.590 --> 00:11:39.830 is said than you will expect him to stand by 00:11:39.830 --> 00:11:42.730 your chair and hold your book. Huh. That's brilliant. 00:11:43.570 --> 00:11:46.070 Succinct. It's like a declaration of literary 00:11:46.070 --> 00:11:48.350 integrity. Respect the reader's intelligence. 00:11:48.450 --> 00:11:51.360 Totally. The writer. creates the authentic world, 00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:54.740 the vernacular, the detail. But you, the reader, 00:11:54.899 --> 00:11:58.659 you have to engage, interpret. The writer doesn't 00:11:58.659 --> 00:12:01.360 do it for you. It's a demanding view. Very modern. 00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:03.899 It is. And just to show you the mix of high principle 00:12:03.899 --> 00:12:07.559 and, well, pragmatism. Yeah. In 1960, while he's 00:12:07.559 --> 00:12:09.799 teaching at San Francisco State, he already appears 00:12:09.799 --> 00:12:13.360 as a guest contestant on You Bet Your Life. Groucho 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:16.940 Marx's show? No way. Yes. Apparently using that 00:12:16.940 --> 00:12:19.080 very popular platform to promote his latest book. 00:12:19.220 --> 00:12:21.259 That's fantastic. The ultimate synthesis, right? 00:12:21.399 --> 00:12:23.740 Integrity and hustle. Appearing on Groucho to 00:12:23.740 --> 00:12:25.779 sell serious literature. Get to do what you got 00:12:25.779 --> 00:12:28.799 to do, I guess. Okay, so let's pivot now to the 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:31.740 work he is absolutely best known for. The Henry 00:12:31.740 --> 00:12:35.500 Wiggin Quartet. Bang the drum slowly. This is 00:12:35.500 --> 00:12:37.759 where that theme, individual navigating society, 00:12:38.080 --> 00:12:42.240 finds its most, well, accessible platform. And 00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:44.200 maybe it's the most profitable one. Definitely 00:12:44.200 --> 00:12:46.820 the most profitable. So, the Henry Wiggin Quartet, 00:12:47.039 --> 00:12:49.879 four novels, all about professional baseball, 00:12:50.100 --> 00:12:53.220 all narrated by the same guy, Henry Arthur Wiggin. 00:12:53.299 --> 00:12:55.019 Pitcher for the fictional New York Mammoths. 00:12:55.159 --> 00:12:58.000 Right. And the defining thing, right away, is 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:00.279 the voice. They're written almost entirely in 00:13:00.279 --> 00:13:02.600 American vernacular. Very immediate, authentic, 00:13:02.919 --> 00:13:04.879 voice -driven. And they span a good chunk of 00:13:04.879 --> 00:13:07.899 his career. The Southpaw in 53. Bang the drums 00:13:07.899 --> 00:13:10.980 slowly. In 56. A ticket for a steam stitch in 00:13:10.980 --> 00:13:14.100 57. And then a big gap. Yeah. Much later. It 00:13:14.100 --> 00:13:16.200 looked like forever in 1979. But the anchors 00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:18.100 clearly banged the drum slowly. Oh, absolutely. 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:20.700 The sources confirm this was Harris' only true 00:13:20.700 --> 00:13:24.460 popular success. The story. It's intense. Focuses 00:13:24.460 --> 00:13:25.879 on the relationship between Wig and the star 00:13:25.879 --> 00:13:28.059 pitcher and his teammate Bruce Pearson, the catcher. 00:13:28.100 --> 00:13:31.120 Right. Diagnosed with a fatal illness, Hodgkin's 00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:34.019 disease, and the team, the Mammoths. They become 00:13:34.019 --> 00:13:37.399 this microcosm of society. Grappling with mortality, 00:13:37.620 --> 00:13:40.580 loyalty, class differences within the team. And 00:13:40.580 --> 00:13:43.659 that story just resonated hugely. Multiple adaptations. 00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:46.559 Right. Cemented its place in pop culture. Instantly. 00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:50.100 The novel's power was obvious. 1956, the year 00:13:50.100 --> 00:13:52.500 it's published, it gets adapted for TV. The United 00:13:52.500 --> 00:13:54.659 States Steel Hour. Which was a big deal back 00:13:54.659 --> 00:13:57.519 then. Prestige television. Huge deal. And get 00:13:57.519 --> 00:13:59.600 this casting. Paul Newman plays Henry Wiggin. 00:13:59.700 --> 00:14:02.700 No, man. And Albert Selmy plays Bruce Pearson, 00:14:02.860 --> 00:14:05.039 the catcher. That immediately gave it massive 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:07.279 visibility. Incredible. And then the movie, the 00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:11.059 1973 film, maybe even more famous now. That film 00:14:11.059 --> 00:14:13.759 really solidified it in cinema history. John 00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:16.440 D. Hancock directed it. Michael Moriarty as Wiggin. 00:14:16.539 --> 00:14:18.600 And Robert De Niro. And Robert De Niro as Bruce 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:21.340 Pearson. A really crucial early role for De Niro, 00:14:21.460 --> 00:14:24.519 showcasing that ability he had to inhabit these 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:27.240 complex, vulnerable characters. Absolutely. And 00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:29.100 importantly, the sources note, Harris himself 00:14:29.100 --> 00:14:31.519 wrote the screenplay for the 73 film. Oh, he 00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:34.090 did? That's significant. Yeah. speaks volumes 00:14:34.090 --> 00:14:36.009 about his commitment to controlling the narrative 00:14:36.009 --> 00:14:38.690 integrity, making sure the transfer from page 00:14:38.690 --> 00:14:41.990 to screen honored his grounded, realistic vision. 00:14:42.129 --> 00:14:44.730 That's rare for an author to successfully shepherd 00:14:44.730 --> 00:14:47.049 their own work into a major film like that and 00:14:47.049 --> 00:14:50.029 keep the artistic fidelity. Very rare. And the 00:14:50.029 --> 00:14:52.470 story wasn't done yet. It even got adapted for 00:14:52.470 --> 00:14:55.370 the stage. Really? Yeah. A stage version, played 00:14:55.370 --> 00:14:57.049 at the next theater in Evanston, Illinois in 00:14:57.049 --> 00:15:00.309 1992, just shows the enduring power of that relationship, 00:15:00.450 --> 00:15:04.379 those themes. Loyalty. Mortality. They work everywhere. 00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:06.759 OK, let's talk critical assessment, because this 00:15:06.759 --> 00:15:11.080 is where the argument for Harris's maybe genius 00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:14.120 really lies. It wasn't just popular. Critics 00:15:14.120 --> 00:15:17.000 say these books redefined the baseball novel. 00:15:17.159 --> 00:15:19.580 The praise is immense. Nicholas Dowadoff, editor 00:15:19.580 --> 00:15:23.500 of Baseball. A literary anthology gave his defining 00:15:23.500 --> 00:15:26.480 quote. So the four Wiggin books elevate the baseball 00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:29.080 novel into unmistakable art. Unmistakable art. 00:15:29.159 --> 00:15:31.039 That's placing him right at the top. Within that 00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:33.279 specific genre, but also in the broader American 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:36.200 literary canon. Absolutely. And then there's 00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:38.340 Roger K. Miller, writing for the Denver Post. 00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:41.500 He does this really interesting comparison, putting 00:15:41.500 --> 00:15:43.659 Harris directly against other famous baseball 00:15:43.659 --> 00:15:46.460 novels. Helps us see why Harris's approach felt 00:15:46.460 --> 00:15:49.100 different, maybe superior to some. Who did he 00:15:49.100 --> 00:15:52.039 compare him to? Well, Miller went all out praising 00:15:52.039 --> 00:15:55.000 Harris. He even used the full amazing title. 00:15:55.389 --> 00:15:59.070 Bang the Drum Slowly by Henry J. Wiggin. Certain 00:15:59.070 --> 00:16:02.330 of his enthusiasms restrained. Huh. Love that 00:16:02.330 --> 00:16:04.549 title. Right. And Miller claimed it was better 00:16:04.549 --> 00:16:06.429 than Bernard Malamud's The Natural. Better than 00:16:06.429 --> 00:16:09.090 The Natural. Wow. Why? What was the argument? 00:16:09.309 --> 00:16:11.590 Malamud's book is iconic. The distinction comes 00:16:11.590 --> 00:16:14.889 down to realism versus fantasy, which brings 00:16:14.889 --> 00:16:16.710 us right back to Harris's core integrity thing. 00:16:16.789 --> 00:16:18.809 Okay. Malamud's The Natural. He uses magical 00:16:18.809 --> 00:16:21.250 realism, right? Myth, legend, the supernatural 00:16:21.250 --> 00:16:24.980 hero, the symbolic bat. Right. Wonder Boy. Exactly. 00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:29.039 Miller and critically Harris himself, they favored 00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:31.700 a much starker reality. The sources are explicit. 00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:34.200 Harris did not like fantasy, especially in baseball. 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:38.720 For him, baseball was this working class, deeply 00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:42.879 human drama. Introducing fantasy, it kind of 00:16:42.879 --> 00:16:46.100 corrupted the social critique potential. So his 00:16:46.100 --> 00:16:48.259 preference for realism in baseball wasn't just 00:16:48.259 --> 00:16:50.580 a taste thing. It was philosophical, aligning 00:16:50.580 --> 00:16:52.879 the genre with his bigger mission. Precisely. 00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:56.100 And Miller also compared Harris favorably to 00:16:56.100 --> 00:16:58.620 Robert Coover's experimental classic, The Universal 00:16:58.620 --> 00:17:01.080 Baseball Association. Another complex one. Yeah. 00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:03.279 Miller said Harris's novel was at least as good 00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:06.220 as Coover's, which is high praise. Coover's book 00:17:06.220 --> 00:17:08.519 is about a fantasy game. But Miller notes, like 00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:10.599 Harris's and all good baseball novels, it's about 00:17:10.599 --> 00:17:12.980 more than just baseball. Right. But the key difference 00:17:12.980 --> 00:17:15.420 is method. Coover uses fantasy and experimental 00:17:15.420 --> 00:17:18.339 structure to explore deep truths. Harris uses 00:17:18.339 --> 00:17:20.880 pure, observed, vernacular realism to do the 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:23.500 same thing. His integrity demanded that the backdrop, 00:17:23.799 --> 00:17:26.839 the baseball world, feel absolutely real, grounded 00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:28.900 in social reality. That grounding, the specific 00:17:28.900 --> 00:17:31.940 details, language, social hierarchy, that's what 00:17:31.940 --> 00:17:33.720 let the Wiggin novels be more than just sports 00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:36.440 fiction. They're about death, class, loyalty. 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:39.220 Filtered through that honest, sometimes naive 00:17:39.220 --> 00:17:43.170 narrator voice, Henry Wiggin. That voice is just 00:17:43.170 --> 00:17:46.730 essential. Harris nails that authenticity, not 00:17:46.730 --> 00:17:49.230 through fancy literary language, but through 00:17:49.230 --> 00:17:53.269 this immediate accessible vernacular. Captures 00:17:53.269 --> 00:17:56.049 the sound of the locker room, the kind of blunt 00:17:56.049 --> 00:17:58.829 honesty of that world. Another facet of his dedication 00:17:58.829 --> 00:18:01.309 to observe truth. Exactly. The baseball novel 00:18:01.309 --> 00:18:03.890 is clearly a massive achievement. But like we 00:18:03.890 --> 00:18:06.130 said at the start, just one piece of this incredible 00:18:06.130 --> 00:18:08.210 output, let's broaden out again, section four, 00:18:08.390 --> 00:18:13.000 the sheer diversity. Social novels, plays, biographies, 00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:15.539 and his own autobiographical work. Yeah, we definitely 00:18:15.539 --> 00:18:17.619 need to circle back to that first novel, Trumpet 00:18:17.619 --> 00:18:20.660 to the World, 1946. Born from the war experience. 00:18:20.940 --> 00:18:23.059 Right. And it immediately establishes him as 00:18:23.059 --> 00:18:25.839 a serious social novelist, tackling this explosive 00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:28.700 topic. A young black soldier married to a white 00:18:28.700 --> 00:18:31.200 woman on trial for hitting a white officer. Published 00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:32.880 right as the civil rights movement is really 00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:35.400 gathering steam. Very relevant. Incredibly relevant. 00:18:35.619 --> 00:18:37.759 Showed his finger was right on the pulse of critical 00:18:37.759 --> 00:18:40.380 American issues from the get -go. And his second 00:18:40.380 --> 00:18:42.759 wartime novel, Something About a Soldier, that 00:18:42.759 --> 00:18:45.880 even got adapted for Broadway. It did. Briefly. 00:18:46.059 --> 00:18:49.920 Stage version by Ernest Kenoy, January 62. Starred 00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:53.380 Salminia. Salminia, wow. Yeah. Shows his social 00:18:53.380 --> 00:18:55.619 critiques had reach, commercial and artistic, 00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:59.200 across different platforms. And Harris also wrote 00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:01.940 his own original play, Friedman and Son, in 63. 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:05.680 Okay. So, fiction, drama. And then his academic 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:08.940 side shows up in serious scholarship, too. Biography, 00:19:09.019 --> 00:19:11.480 editing. Right. He wasn't just making stuff up. 00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:14.339 He was digging into others' lives, too. Two significant 00:19:14.339 --> 00:19:17.940 literary biographies. First one, City of Discontent, 00:19:18.019 --> 00:19:20.500 an interpretive biography of Rachel Lindsay back 00:19:20.500 --> 00:19:23.079 in 52. Rachel Lindsay, the poet. Yeah. Complex 00:19:23.079 --> 00:19:25.400 guy. Troubled. Known for his populist spirit, 00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:27.059 trying to bring poetry back to the people. You 00:19:27.059 --> 00:19:28.759 can see the connection, right? Harris and his 00:19:28.759 --> 00:19:31.019 commitment to accessible democratic writing. 00:19:31.180 --> 00:19:33.859 Kindred spirits, maybe. And the second biography. 00:19:34.460 --> 00:19:37.279 Another literary giant. Saul Bellow. Saul Bellow. 00:19:37.380 --> 00:19:40.019 Drumlin' Woodchuck, published in 1980. Bellow. 00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:43.039 Okay. Another major Jewish -American writer wrestling 00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:45.960 with identity, modern life. Exactly. Clearly 00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:49.259 a significant subject for Harris. These choices 00:19:49.259 --> 00:19:52.019 just underscore his consistent interest in writers 00:19:52.019 --> 00:19:55.460 navigating those complex social -cultural identities. 00:19:55.819 --> 00:19:58.019 And he put serious time into editing, too, bringing 00:19:58.019 --> 00:20:00.259 other figures to light. Absolutely. He edited 00:20:00.259 --> 00:20:04.089 selected poems of... Vachel Lindsay in 63, continuing 00:20:04.089 --> 00:20:06.690 that early interest. But maybe the biggest editing 00:20:06.690 --> 00:20:10.069 job was on James Boswell. Boswell, Samuel Johnson's 00:20:10.069 --> 00:20:12.410 Boswell. That's the one. In 1981, he published 00:20:12.410 --> 00:20:15.430 The Heart of Boswell. Six journals in one volume. 00:20:15.589 --> 00:20:18.490 Imagine the work involved, synthesizing all that 00:20:18.490 --> 00:20:20.970 18th century material. That's incredible versatility. 00:20:21.109 --> 00:20:24.130 Baseball players, American poets, Jewish novelists, 00:20:24.170 --> 00:20:26.549 and now editing Boswell's journals. And even 00:20:26.549 --> 00:20:29.089 that work got adapted. The Boswell editing led 00:20:29.089 --> 00:20:31.730 to two television plays, Boswell for the Tenfold 00:20:31.730 --> 00:20:35.109 in 83 and Boswell's London Journal in 84. It 00:20:35.109 --> 00:20:37.210 just shows this effortless movement, doesn't 00:20:37.210 --> 00:20:39.490 it? Contemporary American vernacular, one minute, 00:20:39.549 --> 00:20:41.910 deep historical scholarship, the next, always 00:20:41.910 --> 00:20:44.410 focused on authentic human life. That's the thread. 00:20:44.609 --> 00:20:46.789 But maybe the most revealing part of his whole 00:20:46.789 --> 00:20:49.049 body of work is when he turned that lens on himself, 00:20:49.289 --> 00:20:51.529 the autobiographical trilogy. Oh, yeah, this 00:20:51.529 --> 00:20:53.849 is essential for understanding Harris. He didn't 00:20:53.849 --> 00:20:55.769 just write standard memoirs. It was more like. 00:20:56.359 --> 00:21:00.019 Deep embedded self -documentation. Often putting 00:21:00.019 --> 00:21:02.319 himself right in the middle of charged situations 00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:05.059 specifically to chronicle them. Okay, let's take 00:21:05.059 --> 00:21:09.200 the first one. Mark the Glove Boy or The Last 00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:12.799 Days of Richard Nixon. Published 64. It chronicles 00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:15.180 Nixon's failed run for California governor in 00:21:15.180 --> 00:21:18.480 62. Harris literally embedded himself in the 00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:21.700 campaign. As the Glove Boy, what does that mean? 00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:25.579 It's like who? The small peripheral figure. the 00:21:25.579 --> 00:21:28.220 observer who's there but not powerful, documenting 00:21:28.220 --> 00:21:30.359 the big political machine from the inside but 00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:33.160 slightly removed. He used his journalist's eye 00:21:33.160 --> 00:21:35.119 on the spectacle, the mechanics of political 00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:37.579 theater, political failure. He was there for 00:21:37.579 --> 00:21:39.799 Nixon's famous last press conference, you know, 00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:41.400 you won't have Nixon to kick around anymore. 00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:44.599 Wow. So he needed that immersion, not critiquing 00:21:44.599 --> 00:21:46.440 from afar, but right there, like a field reporter. 00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:48.480 Exactly. And that immersion continues in the 00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:51.220 next autobiographical book. Takes him way outside 00:21:51.220 --> 00:21:53.980 American politics. We're two. Sierra Leone. The 00:21:53.980 --> 00:21:58.480 book is 21 twice. A journal. Published 66. It 00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:00.039 chronicles his time in the Peace Corps there. 00:22:00.180 --> 00:22:03.000 He joined the Peace Corps. Yeah. Again, not just 00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:06.579 observing. Actively participating in this idealism 00:22:06.579 --> 00:22:09.119 -driven thing in a totally new environment. Putting 00:22:09.119 --> 00:22:12.259 his own values under real -world strain. It's 00:22:12.259 --> 00:22:14.900 a journal of self -discovery through service. 00:22:15.470 --> 00:22:17.730 Far from academia or baseball. And then the third 00:22:17.730 --> 00:22:20.329 piece, the formal autobiography. Right. Best 00:22:20.329 --> 00:22:23.269 father ever invented. The autobiography of Mark 00:22:23.269 --> 00:22:26.230 Harris. 1976. This one pulls it all together. 00:22:26.410 --> 00:22:29.630 His life from late adolescence up to 73. The 00:22:29.630 --> 00:22:32.170 name change, the war, the journalism chaos, the 00:22:32.170 --> 00:22:34.930 early academic and literary success. These three 00:22:34.930 --> 00:22:36.789 books together, they just show this commitment 00:22:36.789 --> 00:22:39.750 to radical honesty, documentation, living out 00:22:39.750 --> 00:22:41.849 the realist principle he applied to his fiction. 00:22:42.069 --> 00:22:44.089 Absolutely. It's incredible, reflecting on the 00:22:44.089 --> 00:22:46.130 sheer volume, but also the thematic cohesion 00:22:46.130 --> 00:22:48.269 across all these genres. He keeps coming back 00:22:48.269 --> 00:22:51.109 to that core theme. Individual integrity versus 00:22:51.109 --> 00:22:53.369 society, whether it's a dying catcher, a poet, 00:22:53.490 --> 00:22:56.009 or himself in Africa. And this is why people 00:22:56.009 --> 00:22:58.529 use that under the radar phrase so much with 00:22:58.529 --> 00:23:01.650 him. His obituary in the Denver Post nailed it. 00:23:01.710 --> 00:23:03.829 One of that legion of under the radar writers 00:23:03.829 --> 00:23:06.670 who for decades consistently turned out excellent 00:23:06.670 --> 00:23:10.150 novels and went largely unsung. Maybe too principled, 00:23:10.150 --> 00:23:13.089 too dedicated to pure realism to chase the kind 00:23:13.089 --> 00:23:15.450 of fame fantasy might have brought. Could be. 00:23:15.609 --> 00:23:18.130 He stuck to his guns. And returning to that core 00:23:18.130 --> 00:23:20.049 philosophy, it really does all circle back to 00:23:20.049 --> 00:23:22.319 that quote you shared earlier. Yeah. His life's 00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:25.400 work dedicated to stories about the one man against 00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:27.579 his society and trying to come to terms with 00:23:27.579 --> 00:23:30.140 his society and trying to succeed within it without 00:23:30.140 --> 00:23:32.900 losing his own identity or integrity. He lived 00:23:32.900 --> 00:23:35.599 it, starting with the name change through the 00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:37.920 AWOL incident and channeling it all into his 00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:40.140 writing, his teaching, his scholarship. Exactly. 00:23:40.279 --> 00:23:41.779 And it's interesting, too, that continuation 00:23:41.779 --> 00:23:45.740 of this critical, maybe documentarian impulse 00:23:45.740 --> 00:23:48.539 in his family. His nephew is a writer, too. Yeah, 00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:51.710 side Serafia Azada. also a highly regarded writer. 00:23:51.849 --> 00:23:54.450 He wrote that powerful memoir, When Skateboards 00:23:54.450 --> 00:23:57.009 Will Be Free, a memoir of a political childhood. 00:23:57.390 --> 00:23:59.769 Fascinating. That dedication to writing, critical 00:23:59.769 --> 00:24:02.630 observation, it's a persistent legacy. It seems 00:24:02.630 --> 00:24:05.150 so. And for anyone listening who wants to dive 00:24:05.150 --> 00:24:08.130 even deeper into Harris's mind, all his papers, 00:24:08.230 --> 00:24:11.049 including those 70 -plus years of diaries, they're 00:24:11.049 --> 00:24:13.150 archived. Special collections at the University 00:24:13.150 --> 00:24:15.529 of Delaware. Yeah. An incredibly rich resource 00:24:15.529 --> 00:24:18.170 for anyone studying 20th century American literature. 00:24:18.410 --> 00:24:21.990 What an immense legacy. Art and self -documentation 00:24:21.990 --> 00:24:25.390 intertwined. Okay. Okay, so to leave you with 00:24:25.390 --> 00:24:27.470 a final thought, reflecting on this whole challenging 00:24:27.470 --> 00:24:29.970 life. Yeah. We know he felt he had to change 00:24:29.970 --> 00:24:33.240 his name. Mark Harris Finkelstein became Mark 00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:36.740 Harris just to survive, get a job, achieve success 00:24:36.740 --> 00:24:39.539 early on. Right. A pragmatic choice driven by 00:24:39.539 --> 00:24:41.960 prejudice. Yet the work he created was defined 00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:45.500 by this absolute unwavering commitment to authenticity, 00:24:45.740 --> 00:24:48.259 to integrity, especially that famous rejection 00:24:48.259 --> 00:24:51.339 of fantasy demanding grounded realism. So it 00:24:51.339 --> 00:24:53.240 raises this really interesting question for you, 00:24:53.319 --> 00:24:55.559 the listener, to think about. What does it really 00:24:55.559 --> 00:24:58.180 cost an artist or anyone ambitious to make those 00:24:58.180 --> 00:25:01.119 initial compromises with a biased society just 00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:04.400 to get in the door? And how does that early struggle, 00:25:04.500 --> 00:25:07.500 that compromise of identity, maybe paradoxically, 00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:10.339 end up sharpening and defining the very unmistakable 00:25:10.339 --> 00:25:13.079 art they create later? Right. Harris sought integrity 00:25:13.079 --> 00:25:17.029 through realism. But the path to that art. was 00:25:17.029 --> 00:25:19.950 paved with this initial act of, well, assimilation. 00:25:20.309 --> 00:25:23.009 Why was that realism so crucial for him? Perhaps 00:25:23.009 --> 00:25:25.130 because of that early experience. Something to 00:25:25.130 --> 00:25:26.950 chew on. What's the real relationship between 00:25:26.950 --> 00:25:29.269 compromise and artistic integrity? A profound 00:25:29.269 --> 00:25:31.890 challenge. As you reflect on the diverse, complex, 00:25:31.950 --> 00:25:34.250 and fiercely principled life of Mark Harris. 00:25:34.430 --> 00:25:35.950 Thanks for joining us for this deep dive.