Welcome back to The Deep Dive. Today we're looking
at someone whose career is, well, it's just fascinatingly
weird, isn't it? Uh -huh. Mary Lynn Rajkoop.
Hmm. Actress, comedian. She somehow managed to
be this key figure in, like, one of the biggest
network thrillers ever. Right. 24. And at the
exact same time, she's like the undisputed queen
of really niche, super awkward, almost painfully
funny cult comedy. It's a genuine occupational
paradox. I mean, her career path, it's almost
like a roadmap for how you navigate modern media.
You've got this incredibly wide cultural footprint.
It stretches all the way from. you know, super
high stakes, edge of your seat network drama,
straight into the most surreal, most celebrated
corners of alt comedy. It's wild. So our mission
today is basically to try and make sense of this,
synthesize this huge kind of contradictory body
of work. We're going to go from her earliest
days, art school, gritty stand up, all the way
up to her recent memoir, Famish. We really want
to understand the sort of physics of it. How
does she pivot between these completely different
worlds so... seamlessly, often without missing
a beat. Well, you almost have to start by just
acknowledging the two poles of her fame, right?
The two characters people overwhelmingly know
her for. Okay. And they couldn't be more different,
like polar opposites in tone, style, everything.
Yeah. On one side, you have the super serious,
hyper -competent CTU analyst Chloe O 'Brien in
24. The ultimate reliable tech person. Exactly.
And then on the other side, you've got Gail the
snail. from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
Gail, just utterly repulsive, often literally
spitting. But somehow beloved. It's bizarre.
Okay, let's unpack this then. How does one actor
manage that? How do you maintain credibility,
artistic integrity while you're existing in like
the sterile high -tech basement of CTU, you know,
desperately trying to save Kiefer Sutherland
and simultaneously inhabiting the grimy... morally
bankrupt world of the gang where your character
is basically celebrated for being disgusting
and like a financial leech. It's more than just
range, isn't it? It totally is. It's like a master
class in identity management or something. Well,
to really get that range, I think you got to
look at where she started. Her background is
very Midwestern. Okay. Which I think is actually
kind of key to her whole delivery, that grounded,
almost deadpan thing she does. Yeah, that makes
sense. So specifics. She was born June 22nd,
1971 in Detroit, but she grew up in Trenton,
Michigan, which is just south of the city. And
the family background is pretty classic working
class. Exactly. Her dad, Tony, was a pipe fitter.
Her mom, Betty, was a pharmacist's assistant.
So not exactly the environment you'd immediately
think would produce this kind of avant -garde
comedian. Right. But she was definitely soaking
up culture. There's this one detail that always
jumps out from her early life. What's that? Her
childhood inspiration was apparently the TV show
Moonlighting. Moonlighting. Stylized banter,
the breaking of the fourth wall. I can kind of
see a thread there maybe. The quirky sensibility.
Maybe. But what's really unconventional is her
artistic path after that. She didn't go the traditional
drama school route. Not even like Second City
or improv initially. No. Her formal training
was all visual arts. She went to the Center for
Creative Studies in Detroit and then the San
Francisco Art Institute. She was trained as a
painter. See, I find that detail incredibly telling.
Because when you watch her comedy, especially
the character stuff, it's not built on slick
one -liners. It's built on physical observation.
I honestly think that visual arts training informs
her whole style. It's often really physical,
awkward, hyper -specific. I totally agree. Think
about what a painter does, right? They're not
just looking at the subject. They're analyzing
light, shadow, negative space, texture, composition,
all of it. So when Rajak Sood builds a character
like Gale the Snail or even that silent role
she did in Arrested Development. Right, Heartfire.
She's not just delivering lines. She's delivering
this fully composed physical presence. It really
feels like she's meticulously painting the character
with these weird, small, deeply observed details.
Yeah, it's less about smooth stagecraft and more
about realizing this sharp. visually kind of
uncomfortable persona. Exactly. That physical
discomfort or like slightly unnatural movement
that's often central to her comedy. It feels
totally intentional. Like it comes from an artist
observing how people hold themselves when they're
just a little off. And the way she got into performing
fits that kind of quirky path to her very first
role. Community theater. Willy Wonka and the
Chocolate Factory. She was an Oompa Loompa. An
Oompa Loompa. OK. Followed by her first starring
role. As Raggedy Ann. Wow. Okay, so both roles
demanding a lot of costume, a lot of physical
commitment. Right. It reinforces that physical
nature of her comedy later on. Then came the,
you know, the performer's grind. Early 90s, she
moves to San Francisco. Which was a real hotbed
then for new alternative comedy voices. Totally.
She was cutting her teeth at open mics, developing
that really unique kind of dry voice that didn't
sound like anybody else at the time. And then
inevitably the move to L .A. Right, where the
real actor hustle starts. The sources mentioned
she was waitressing at a hard rock cafe. Oh,
the classic L .A. actor rite of passage. Pretty
much, before she finally broke into TV. But she
carried that, like... authentic working class
observer thing right into the very stylized world
of Hollywood. So she gets to L .A. and she finds
her people pretty quickly. And it was a very
specific group. Yeah. Like godfathers of modern
American alt sketch comedy. Exactly. She was
one of the original cast members of Mr. Show
with Bob and David. OK. For anyone listening
who doesn't know Mr. Show you got to understand
this wasn't SNL. Not even close. This was like
hyper intellectual deeply surreal kind of anti
comedy comedy. totally rejected normal sketch
structures. It became this foundational text
for like everyone from Key and Peele to Tim and
Eric. Yeah, absolutely. And Mary Lynn Roscoe
was right there in the middle of it. And it's
amazing how perfectly her sort of. artistic sensibilities
fit that show. How so? Well, the show relies
so heavily on these really absurd specific characters,
not just broad punchlines. Right. So her visual
focus, her commitment to unique characterization,
the stuff she honed in art school, it made her...
Totally indispensable in that cast. There's also
a little personal tidbit there. Oh, yeah. The
sources confirm she was dating David Cross. One
half of Bob and Dax. Right. And he introduced
her to the show. So it's that classic creative
collaboration born from a personal connection.
But the exit is kind of dramatic, too. She left
Mr. Show after the second season ended. When
they broke up. Yeah. It really underscores how
intense and intertwined that whole L .A. comedy
scene was back then. Okay. So after Mr. Show,
she pivots almost immediately to another. Really
high quality, super influential project. HBO's
The Larry Sanders Show? An all -timer. Absolutely.
From 96 to 98, she had that recurring role. Mary
Lou Collins, the booking assistant, appeared
in 18 episodes. That's a tough gig. Larry Sanders
was known for that hyper -realistic, often improvised
feel. Oh, yeah. You had to be incredibly naturalistic,
and you had to hold your own opposite Gary Shandling
and Rip Torn. A lot. Yeah. So moving from the
like stylized absurdity of Mr. Show to the really
subtle cringe comedy realism of Larry Sanders.
Yeah. That shows incredible flexibility right
away. Impressive comedic timing. And she kept
that network TV presence going, too. She landed
a recurring semi -regular role on Veronica's
Closet. Right, as Chloe appeared in 15 episodes
of that. Now, Veronica's Closet, definitely more
conventional than her HBO stuff. For sure. But
it kept her visible on mainstream TV while she
was still kind of building that niche reputation.
And it wasn't just traditional TV either. Her
knack for popping up in different cultural spots
really set the stage for her later genre hopping.
Yeah, like music videos. This was the era when
music videos... were basically mini movies, highly
regarded. And she was in some classics. You got
to mention Weezer's The Good Life. Yes, and Beck's
The New Pollution. Totally. These weren't just
like generic pop videos. They were stylized,
a little quirky, real cultural markers of the
mid to late 90s. She did stuff for Sheryl Crow
later too, right? Yeah. And aligning herself
with artists like Weezer and Beck who had their
own distinctive kind of oddball cultural thing
going on. Right. That was really key in cementing
her status as this alternative. comic actor and
her early film cameos did the same thing showed
she could steal a scene with barely any screen
time like friday's mary and man on the moon the
andy kaufman biopic and just a voice role female
radio caller in the truth about cats and dogs
small parts but requiring really specific character
work not just you know background filler so what's
fascinating when you look at this early period
is She wasn't chasing the typical starlet path,
you know, not going for romantic leads. It seems
like it was laser focused on becoming this indispensable,
unique fixture in really influential, high quality
comedy. Whether it was the brainy sketch stuff
of Mr. Show, the subtle realism of Larry Sanders,
or even just the visual vibe of a Beck video.
She built this whole professional identity based
on being the intensely specific, slightly awkward,
but deeply reliable. supporting player exactly
which ironically set her up perfectly for the
huge mainstream role that would completely redefine
her fame and that of course brings us to the
role that basically defined a decade for her
and shot her into like global recognition ctu
systems analyst chloe o 'brien on 24 yeah This
is the moment the alt -comedy insider suddenly
becomes the absolutely essential sidekick in
this massive high -octane thriller that millions
watched every single week. The jump from surreal
comedy to high -stakes procedural is jarring
enough, right? Totally. But it's the sheer longevity
and the kind of gravity of the role that really
sets it apart. She joined in 2003, season three,
started as just a guest star. And I think the
key to why she worked so well on 24 is that she
played the necessary awkwardness of Chloe. Explain
that. Well, Chloe wasn't written to be smooth
or charming, right? She was the socially awkward
tech whiz, often really blunt, sometimes frustratingly
rigid about protocol. Yeah, she could be difficult.
But absolutely indispensable. She was the only
person Jack Bauer could ultimately rely on when
everything else was failing. And the fans loved
that dynamic. So much so, she was one of the
few brought back for season four. And the showrunners
clearly saw that dynamic was crucial. That character
provided this really necessary emotional anchor
against Jack Bauer constantly going rogue. Right.
So Rajshku became a main cast member in season
five. And by the time the original run ended
after eight seasons, she was the lead female,
second billing, only to Kiefer Sutherland himself.
That rise is just staggering, especially on a
show like 24 where characters drop like flies.
Seriously. And think about the pressure of delivering
that dialogue, all that tech jargon about server
farms, firewalls, data packets. She had to sound
completely convincing while also conveying the
insane stress of the ticking clock. And that's
where her acting choices may be coming from,
that visual analytical mind we talked about really
shine. How so? She played Chloe with this intense
focus on efficiency, almost like a robotic lack
of surface emotion. because that focus was what
made her reliable. Right. Her loyalty to Jack
wasn't shown through big speeches. Exactly. It
was shown through just relentlessly getting the
job done, no matter the rules or the personal
risk. She channeled her fear and empathy into
like frantic typing and systems analysis, not
big dramatic breakdowns. And it paid off culturally
in a huge way. Yeah. She actually got to say
the very last words of the original series in
the season eight finale. That's massive. It shows
how central. her character and her performance
had become to the whole show's identity. And
the story didn't even end there. The legacy kept
going. Right. She came back for the limited series
in 2014 -24, Live Another Day, all 12 episodes.
Which basically cemented Chloe as the longest
running, most essential supporting character
in the entire 24 universe. Her being there was
just non -negotiable for the fans. And the ultimate
pop culture seal of approval. Ah, yes. The Simpsons.
Appearing on The Simpsons. In that 2007 episode,
24 Minutes, she and Kiefer Sutherland voiced
their characters in the parody. Once you're parodied
on The Simpsons, you know you've saturated the
culture. Absolutely. And we should mention the
critical recognition, too, even if it wasn't
individual acting awards. Okay. She got nominated
twice for a Screen Actors Guild Award 2005 and
2007 as part of the Ensemble for Outstanding
Performance in a Drama Series. Her presence was
absolutely vital to that ensemble's success and
its dramatic weight. So here's where it gets
really interesting for me. She spends almost
a decade tied to this incredibly intense serious
globally famous role right and yet at the same
time she's actively cultivating and taking on
some of the weirdest, most specific and often
downright repulsive comedic roles you can imagine.
Yeah. This period just shows the incredible artistic
freedom that a massive hit like 24 can actually
buy you. That really is the core paradox, isn't
it? Being Chloe O 'Brien didn't box her in. If
anything, it seemed to like liberate her. Yeah,
it feels that way. She actively went after high
quality indie films and dramatic roles that were
the complete opposite of the CTU basement. OK,
well, give us some examples. Well, look at the
films she was choosing then. She pops up in some
really acclaimed, auteur -driven stuff like Punch
Drunk Love. Paul Thomas Anderson. Very stylized.
Exactly. And she had a role in that really powerful,
tough indie drama Mysterious Skin. She played
Avalyn Friesen. Okay. Mysterious Skin requires
some serious dramatic commitment. That's a world
away from the action dialogue of 24. Totally.
It shows she was really dedicated to proving
her dramatic range outside the thriller box.
And she also landed parts in those key indie
darlings like Little Miss Sunshine. As pageant
assistant Pam. Yes. And later. sunshine cleaning
and that cool little time travel comedy safety
not guaranteed so those film choices they paint
a picture of an actor who's prioritizing like
script quality and unique characters over just
grabbing big blockbuster paychecks yeah it seems
like she wanted to work with interesting independent
voices and her recent work keeps that standard
up right still choosing interesting dramatic
roles definitely she was in the sci -fi movie
the tomorrow war as nora showing she can still
handle genre stuff and crucially She took that
four -episode dramatic part in the dropout on
Hulu. Which is huge. Yeah, playing Lorraine Fuse,
William H. Macy's character's wife. That required
portraying a real person caught up in this big
medical legal drama. Totally different tone again.
Okay, so that's the serious side. But then you
pivot, and there's just the sheer fun of the
comedy cameo powerhouse side of her career. Oh,
yeah. She's the master of those perfect, unforgettable
bit parts, often playing like... The single weirdest
person in the scene that just stick in your head.
Totally. Think about Blind Brenda in Road Trip.
Oh, my God. Just a one scene marvel of awkward
physical comedy gold. Or Zelmina in Dude, Where's
My Car? Yeah. And Sweet Home Alabama. Sarah and
Julie and Julia. They're all perfect examples
of her using that unique kind of off center comedic
persona she built back in the 90s. But nothing.
Nothing captures that sheer, joyful, artistic
contradiction more than Gail the Snail. Ah, the
snail. An internet legend in her own right. Living
right alongside Chloe O 'Brien and the cultural
consciousness. It's insane. Gail the Snail from
It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. I mean, it's
just pure artistic commitment to grotesquery.
Right. She first showed up in The Gang Gives
Frank an Intervention. And the character is just
everything. awkward, strange, needy, repulsive,
often physically aggressive. The spit. She's
famous for the spit. And the bizarre physical
stuff, the total lack of social awareness. It
takes serious confidence as a performer. To commit
that hard to a character whose whole point is
basically to make everyone watching and the gang
feel disgusted. Oh, absolutely. And when you
compare the like tight, controlled, intense posture
of Chloe O 'Brien hands always ready over the
keyboard, back straight with the kind of slouched,
aggressive, perpetually sticky posture of Gail
the snail, you see the incredible physical transformation.
She's using those visual observation tools from
art school to create this utterly repellent physical
composition. It's brilliant. in a horrifying
way and she clearly loved it because she kept
coming back reprised the role multiple times
the ninth season finale season 13's the gang
beats boggs ladies reboot which is fantastic
yeah so that enduring presence means she successfully
anchored two major culturally defining tv roles
that could not possibly be further apart on the
spectrum of tone and style Let's quickly hit
some other recurring TV comedy roles, too, because
even while 24 was massive, she was still popping
up in other great comedies. Right. She played
Genevieve Mirren Carter over five episodes of
Brooklyn Nine -Nine. Which fit her perfectly.
Totally. And we have to talk about Flight of
the Conchords. Oh, yes. Her guest spot as Karen,
the art Garfunkel fanatic and prime minister.
That is peak niche comedy casting. It's just
perfect for a role that needs that very specific,
slightly unhinged intensity hidden under this
totally mundane exterior. And finally, her appearance
in Arrest Development's fourth season as Heartfire.
Yes, which is crucial because it loops right
back to her visual arts background. How so? It
was a silent role. But really well received.
And Raj Scoop herself described Heartfire as
a character who speaks from the heart but doesn't
use any words. Wow. So a performance built entirely
on physical presence, visual storytelling, deliberate
movement. Pure visual art principles just translated
onto the screen. Amazing. And even when the projects
themselves weren't maybe top tier. Like Night
School. Right. 2018 movie Night School, she played
Teresa. The reviews were kind of middling for
the film itself. But Michael Phillips, the critic
at the Chicago Tribune, specifically pointed
her out. He said something like, the actors aren't
the problem with Night School, the material is.
So even in a weaker film, she brings that commitment
and quality that stands out. She elevates it.
So, okay, she's conquered mainstream drama, indie
film, cult comedy. What next? Well, she turned
inward. Focusing more on writing and solo performance,
using her own unique experiences with fame and
just life as her material. Which really shows
her commitment to being authentic, doesn't it?
Yeah, I think so. The shift really started with
her solo shows. Back in 2010, she performed Mary
Lynn Spreads Her Legs at the Steve Allen Theater
in L .A. Bold title. Very bold. And this show
was intensely personal. Directly inspired by
her experiences with pregnancy, childbirth, becoming
a mother for the first time. And the reviews
noted that boldness, right? The unvarnished tone.
Exactly. F. Kathleen Foley at the LA Times wrote
that the cheerfully vulgar title sums up the
overall tone, which is often breezily obscene.
OK, so that confirms she's still committed to
this really bold, unfiltered style, which is
so fundamentally different from the kind of reserved
professional vibe of Chloe O 'Brien. Completely.
She uses the stage to just fully embrace the
chaos and messiness of life that her mainstream
roles rarely let her touch. And she took that
very personal style international. In 2016, she
did the Edinburgh Fringe Festival with a show
called 24 Hours with Mary Lynn Rodscope. Right.
And that one dealt more directly with that clash
juggling domestic life with the absurdity of
being this specific kind of famous. The recognizable
but still sort of niche celebrity balancing family
with trying to do your own independent stuff.
Yeah. And she was doing more traditional stand
up, too, like appearing on John Oliver's New
York stand up show back in 2010. And beyond the
stage, she was actually pretty early in the digital
content game, right? Recognizing the power of
making her own stuff. Totally. In 2011, she had
that web series Dickie on my damn channel. And
it was apparently one of their most successful
series. And Dickie is another great example of
her tapping into those Midwestern roots and her
art background. How so? The character, this 40
-year -old woman living at home, obsessed with
making crafts and taking her art super seriously.
It feels clearly based on really specific observations
of people she grew up around in Michigan. It's
like the visual artist creating a character study
of someone on the fringes. And she was involved
in early podcasting, too, hosting Kicking It
Mary Lynn style on the Nerdist Network. Right.
Just further proof she knew how to connect directly
with those niche audiences outside the usual.
network structures. So all this creative output,
the solo shows, the web series, the stand -up,
it feels like it all kind of led to her written
work. Her book, yeah. In 2022, she released her
first book, Famish, My Life at the Edge of Stardom.
And that title, Famish, it's just perfect, isn't
it? It sums up her whole career. Absolutely.
It addresses that really unique situation of
being instantly recognizable everywhere. You
can't go through an airport without someone yelling
Chloe at her. Right. But not fitting that conventional
A -list superstar mold, it means having the creative
freedom of an artist without maybe the suffocating
pressure of being like a Tom Cruise level celebrity.
And that specific balance clearly still resonates.
Her appearance just last year. 2023, on Celebrity
Wheel of Fortune. Oh yeah, that went viral, didn't
it? Totally. An official clip of her and Paul
Scheer just goofing around got over 2 million
views on TikTok. Her ability to connect is still
incredibly strong, precisely because she just
leans into her own unique thing, even when she's
just spinning a puzzle wheel. And finally, we
should probably touch on some of the personal
details she shares, which add to that authentic
image. Right. The source material confirms she
identifies as bisexual. And her relationship
history includes some interesting creative figures.
Theated music producer John Breon for five years.
And the comedian Duncan Trussell. Yeah. And her
marriage story is pretty fittingly unconventional,
too. Matthew Rolfe, the personal trainer. Right.
Met him after one of her comedy sets. Started
dating. Pregnant three months later. Wow. Son
born in 2008. And then they had this impromptu
wedding in Vegas on August 1st, 2009. Very Vegas.
Very comedian. Totally. They were married for
about a decade. Then she filed for divorce in
2019. But it's clear that whole life story, the
ups, the downs, provides tons of material for
her really honest, often vulgar comedy about
motherhood and just life. Hashtag tag outro host
and expert. So when you put it all together.
What an incredible mix of artistic paths. It
really is. We've traced her from like the San
Francisco Art Institute as a painter to this
super specific stylized world of Mr. Show to
being the absolute essential female lead in a
global phenomenon like 24. And while doing all
that, she's pioneering web series, popping up
in iconic music videos and doing this really
self -deprecating, deeply honest solo comedy.
I mean, if we try to connect this to the bigger
picture. Her career really demonstrates the huge
value of like artistic self -possession. Meaning
she built a career on being indispensable, not
just interchangeable. distinct, recognizable,
comedic voice, even when it was awkward or weird,
gave her the artistic leverage and probably the
financial freedom from 24 to just bounce between
these massive commercial things and then really
specific niche personal projects, like committing
100 % to being the repulsive Gail Disnail. It's
an amazing display of professional flexibility.
She figured out how to be quiet, intense, and
hyper -competent on a huge Fox drama. Yeah. And
then turn around and be loud, disturbing, and
gloriously incompetent on a cult effect show.
And achieving that kind of longevity by holding
onto your artistic integrity across such wildly
different scales of fame, that's really rare.
It feels like she took the structure and the
safety net of mainstream success. And used it
to fuel her more experimental, more personal,
often much more awkward artistic impulses. So
what does this all mean? I guess it means embracing
your quirks, your unique perspective, even if
it's visually awkward, can lead to this. Really
unexpected cultural staying power. Influence
that goes way beyond what a more conventional
career path might give you. Yeah. Mary Lynn Rajskub
is kind of proof that success isn't about fitting
neatly into one box. It's about owning every
single one of your contradictions. Well, totally.
And it makes you think, doesn't it, about the
complexity of fame now in the Internet age? How
so? Well, how does that specific kind of... fame
-ish she talks about in her book being instantly
recognizable for these niche or cult roles right
alongside a defining mainstream role. How does
that reflect the modern balance between, you
know, widespread recognition and personal artistic
freedom? That's a great question. And ultimately,
which version of her wins out? Which persona,
the sharp visual artist, the loyal tech analyst,
or the aggressively awful snail will be the one
that history really remembers as defining her
legacy? Something to definitely mull over. Until
our next deep dive.