WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.859 Welcome back to The Deep Dive. Today we're looking 00:00:02.859 --> 00:00:06.419 at someone whose career is, well, it's just fascinatingly 00:00:06.419 --> 00:00:08.500 weird, isn't it? Uh -huh. Mary Lynn Rajkoop. 00:00:08.599 --> 00:00:12.980 Hmm. Actress, comedian. She somehow managed to 00:00:12.980 --> 00:00:15.980 be this key figure in, like, one of the biggest 00:00:15.980 --> 00:00:19.219 network thrillers ever. Right. 24. And at the 00:00:19.219 --> 00:00:21.399 exact same time, she's like the undisputed queen 00:00:21.399 --> 00:00:25.719 of really niche, super awkward, almost painfully 00:00:25.719 --> 00:00:28.039 funny cult comedy. It's a genuine occupational 00:00:28.039 --> 00:00:30.879 paradox. I mean, her career path, it's almost 00:00:30.879 --> 00:00:33.159 like a roadmap for how you navigate modern media. 00:00:33.320 --> 00:00:36.200 You've got this incredibly wide cultural footprint. 00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:39.119 It stretches all the way from. you know, super 00:00:39.119 --> 00:00:41.439 high stakes, edge of your seat network drama, 00:00:41.679 --> 00:00:44.679 straight into the most surreal, most celebrated 00:00:44.679 --> 00:00:47.659 corners of alt comedy. It's wild. So our mission 00:00:47.659 --> 00:00:49.659 today is basically to try and make sense of this, 00:00:49.759 --> 00:00:52.140 synthesize this huge kind of contradictory body 00:00:52.140 --> 00:00:54.679 of work. We're going to go from her earliest 00:00:54.679 --> 00:00:58.579 days, art school, gritty stand up, all the way 00:00:58.579 --> 00:01:02.039 up to her recent memoir, Famish. We really want 00:01:02.039 --> 00:01:04.040 to understand the sort of physics of it. How 00:01:04.040 --> 00:01:05.819 does she pivot between these completely different 00:01:05.819 --> 00:01:10.599 worlds so... seamlessly, often without missing 00:01:10.599 --> 00:01:12.480 a beat. Well, you almost have to start by just 00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:14.859 acknowledging the two poles of her fame, right? 00:01:14.920 --> 00:01:17.140 The two characters people overwhelmingly know 00:01:17.140 --> 00:01:20.400 her for. Okay. And they couldn't be more different, 00:01:20.519 --> 00:01:23.519 like polar opposites in tone, style, everything. 00:01:23.819 --> 00:01:27.040 Yeah. On one side, you have the super serious, 00:01:27.079 --> 00:01:30.939 hyper -competent CTU analyst Chloe O 'Brien in 00:01:30.939 --> 00:01:33.700 24. The ultimate reliable tech person. Exactly. 00:01:33.700 --> 00:01:36.920 And then on the other side, you've got Gail the 00:01:36.920 --> 00:01:38.969 snail. from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. 00:01:39.430 --> 00:01:42.310 Gail, just utterly repulsive, often literally 00:01:42.310 --> 00:01:44.810 spitting. But somehow beloved. It's bizarre. 00:01:45.010 --> 00:01:47.030 Okay, let's unpack this then. How does one actor 00:01:47.030 --> 00:01:49.109 manage that? How do you maintain credibility, 00:01:49.549 --> 00:01:52.670 artistic integrity while you're existing in like 00:01:52.670 --> 00:01:56.030 the sterile high -tech basement of CTU, you know, 00:01:56.049 --> 00:01:57.890 desperately trying to save Kiefer Sutherland 00:01:57.890 --> 00:02:02.980 and simultaneously inhabiting the grimy... morally 00:02:02.980 --> 00:02:05.700 bankrupt world of the gang where your character 00:02:05.700 --> 00:02:08.060 is basically celebrated for being disgusting 00:02:08.060 --> 00:02:11.699 and like a financial leech. It's more than just 00:02:11.699 --> 00:02:14.060 range, isn't it? It totally is. It's like a master 00:02:14.060 --> 00:02:16.219 class in identity management or something. Well, 00:02:16.280 --> 00:02:18.099 to really get that range, I think you got to 00:02:18.099 --> 00:02:20.039 look at where she started. Her background is 00:02:20.039 --> 00:02:24.000 very Midwestern. Okay. Which I think is actually 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:26.979 kind of key to her whole delivery, that grounded, 00:02:27.039 --> 00:02:29.460 almost deadpan thing she does. Yeah, that makes 00:02:29.460 --> 00:02:32.879 sense. So specifics. She was born June 22nd, 00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:35.939 1971 in Detroit, but she grew up in Trenton, 00:02:35.960 --> 00:02:38.120 Michigan, which is just south of the city. And 00:02:38.120 --> 00:02:39.740 the family background is pretty classic working 00:02:39.740 --> 00:02:43.520 class. Exactly. Her dad, Tony, was a pipe fitter. 00:02:43.620 --> 00:02:46.360 Her mom, Betty, was a pharmacist's assistant. 00:02:46.460 --> 00:02:48.879 So not exactly the environment you'd immediately 00:02:48.879 --> 00:02:50.879 think would produce this kind of avant -garde 00:02:50.879 --> 00:02:53.099 comedian. Right. But she was definitely soaking 00:02:53.099 --> 00:02:56.379 up culture. There's this one detail that always 00:02:56.379 --> 00:02:58.979 jumps out from her early life. What's that? Her 00:02:58.979 --> 00:03:01.280 childhood inspiration was apparently the TV show 00:03:01.280 --> 00:03:05.080 Moonlighting. Moonlighting. Stylized banter, 00:03:05.099 --> 00:03:06.639 the breaking of the fourth wall. I can kind of 00:03:06.639 --> 00:03:09.080 see a thread there maybe. The quirky sensibility. 00:03:09.340 --> 00:03:12.219 Maybe. But what's really unconventional is her 00:03:12.219 --> 00:03:15.020 artistic path after that. She didn't go the traditional 00:03:15.020 --> 00:03:17.500 drama school route. Not even like Second City 00:03:17.500 --> 00:03:20.159 or improv initially. No. Her formal training 00:03:20.159 --> 00:03:22.659 was all visual arts. She went to the Center for 00:03:22.659 --> 00:03:24.780 Creative Studies in Detroit and then the San 00:03:24.780 --> 00:03:27.259 Francisco Art Institute. She was trained as a 00:03:27.259 --> 00:03:31.000 painter. See, I find that detail incredibly telling. 00:03:31.099 --> 00:03:33.139 Because when you watch her comedy, especially 00:03:33.139 --> 00:03:36.159 the character stuff, it's not built on slick 00:03:36.159 --> 00:03:38.680 one -liners. It's built on physical observation. 00:03:39.219 --> 00:03:42.219 I honestly think that visual arts training informs 00:03:42.219 --> 00:03:44.539 her whole style. It's often really physical, 00:03:44.699 --> 00:03:48.080 awkward, hyper -specific. I totally agree. Think 00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:49.620 about what a painter does, right? They're not 00:03:49.620 --> 00:03:51.919 just looking at the subject. They're analyzing 00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:55.740 light, shadow, negative space, texture, composition, 00:03:56.080 --> 00:03:59.629 all of it. So when Rajak Sood builds a character 00:03:59.629 --> 00:04:02.129 like Gale the Snail or even that silent role 00:04:02.129 --> 00:04:04.169 she did in Arrested Development. Right, Heartfire. 00:04:04.409 --> 00:04:06.689 She's not just delivering lines. She's delivering 00:04:06.689 --> 00:04:09.830 this fully composed physical presence. It really 00:04:09.830 --> 00:04:12.789 feels like she's meticulously painting the character 00:04:12.789 --> 00:04:17.189 with these weird, small, deeply observed details. 00:04:17.610 --> 00:04:19.689 Yeah, it's less about smooth stagecraft and more 00:04:19.689 --> 00:04:23.490 about realizing this sharp. visually kind of 00:04:23.490 --> 00:04:26.290 uncomfortable persona. Exactly. That physical 00:04:26.290 --> 00:04:29.250 discomfort or like slightly unnatural movement 00:04:29.250 --> 00:04:32.149 that's often central to her comedy. It feels 00:04:32.149 --> 00:04:34.790 totally intentional. Like it comes from an artist 00:04:34.790 --> 00:04:36.949 observing how people hold themselves when they're 00:04:36.949 --> 00:04:39.829 just a little off. And the way she got into performing 00:04:39.829 --> 00:04:43.129 fits that kind of quirky path to her very first 00:04:43.129 --> 00:04:46.329 role. Community theater. Willy Wonka and the 00:04:46.329 --> 00:04:48.290 Chocolate Factory. She was an Oompa Loompa. An 00:04:48.290 --> 00:04:50.629 Oompa Loompa. OK. Followed by her first starring 00:04:50.629 --> 00:04:54.410 role. As Raggedy Ann. Wow. Okay, so both roles 00:04:54.410 --> 00:04:56.990 demanding a lot of costume, a lot of physical 00:04:56.990 --> 00:04:59.110 commitment. Right. It reinforces that physical 00:04:59.110 --> 00:05:01.310 nature of her comedy later on. Then came the, 00:05:01.310 --> 00:05:03.470 you know, the performer's grind. Early 90s, she 00:05:03.470 --> 00:05:05.949 moves to San Francisco. Which was a real hotbed 00:05:05.949 --> 00:05:08.839 then for new alternative comedy voices. Totally. 00:05:08.920 --> 00:05:11.600 She was cutting her teeth at open mics, developing 00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:14.939 that really unique kind of dry voice that didn't 00:05:14.939 --> 00:05:16.899 sound like anybody else at the time. And then 00:05:16.899 --> 00:05:19.620 inevitably the move to L .A. Right, where the 00:05:19.620 --> 00:05:22.620 real actor hustle starts. The sources mentioned 00:05:22.620 --> 00:05:24.839 she was waitressing at a hard rock cafe. Oh, 00:05:24.899 --> 00:05:27.379 the classic L .A. actor rite of passage. Pretty 00:05:27.379 --> 00:05:30.259 much, before she finally broke into TV. But she 00:05:30.259 --> 00:05:33.060 carried that, like... authentic working class 00:05:33.060 --> 00:05:36.480 observer thing right into the very stylized world 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:39.819 of Hollywood. So she gets to L .A. and she finds 00:05:39.819 --> 00:05:41.420 her people pretty quickly. And it was a very 00:05:41.420 --> 00:05:44.399 specific group. Yeah. Like godfathers of modern 00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:46.779 American alt sketch comedy. Exactly. She was 00:05:46.779 --> 00:05:48.920 one of the original cast members of Mr. Show 00:05:48.920 --> 00:05:51.240 with Bob and David. OK. For anyone listening 00:05:51.240 --> 00:05:52.839 who doesn't know Mr. Show you got to understand 00:05:52.839 --> 00:05:56.060 this wasn't SNL. Not even close. This was like 00:05:56.060 --> 00:05:59.220 hyper intellectual deeply surreal kind of anti 00:05:59.220 --> 00:06:02.920 comedy comedy. totally rejected normal sketch 00:06:02.920 --> 00:06:05.120 structures. It became this foundational text 00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:08.339 for like everyone from Key and Peele to Tim and 00:06:08.339 --> 00:06:10.879 Eric. Yeah, absolutely. And Mary Lynn Roscoe 00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:12.500 was right there in the middle of it. And it's 00:06:12.500 --> 00:06:16.879 amazing how perfectly her sort of. artistic sensibilities 00:06:16.879 --> 00:06:20.100 fit that show. How so? Well, the show relies 00:06:20.100 --> 00:06:24.019 so heavily on these really absurd specific characters, 00:06:24.040 --> 00:06:26.759 not just broad punchlines. Right. So her visual 00:06:26.759 --> 00:06:29.500 focus, her commitment to unique characterization, 00:06:29.980 --> 00:06:32.800 the stuff she honed in art school, it made her... 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:35.420 Totally indispensable in that cast. There's also 00:06:35.420 --> 00:06:37.480 a little personal tidbit there. Oh, yeah. The 00:06:37.480 --> 00:06:40.259 sources confirm she was dating David Cross. One 00:06:40.259 --> 00:06:42.040 half of Bob and Dax. Right. And he introduced 00:06:42.040 --> 00:06:43.980 her to the show. So it's that classic creative 00:06:43.980 --> 00:06:46.060 collaboration born from a personal connection. 00:06:46.459 --> 00:06:49.199 But the exit is kind of dramatic, too. She left 00:06:49.199 --> 00:06:51.279 Mr. Show after the second season ended. When 00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:53.259 they broke up. Yeah. It really underscores how 00:06:53.259 --> 00:06:56.360 intense and intertwined that whole L .A. comedy 00:06:56.360 --> 00:06:59.379 scene was back then. Okay. So after Mr. Show, 00:06:59.540 --> 00:07:02.819 she pivots almost immediately to another. Really 00:07:02.819 --> 00:07:05.920 high quality, super influential project. HBO's 00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:08.240 The Larry Sanders Show? An all -timer. Absolutely. 00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:11.899 From 96 to 98, she had that recurring role. Mary 00:07:11.899 --> 00:07:13.980 Lou Collins, the booking assistant, appeared 00:07:13.980 --> 00:07:18.000 in 18 episodes. That's a tough gig. Larry Sanders 00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:21.079 was known for that hyper -realistic, often improvised 00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:23.980 feel. Oh, yeah. You had to be incredibly naturalistic, 00:07:23.980 --> 00:07:26.519 and you had to hold your own opposite Gary Shandling 00:07:26.519 --> 00:07:31.189 and Rip Torn. A lot. Yeah. So moving from the 00:07:31.189 --> 00:07:35.850 like stylized absurdity of Mr. Show to the really 00:07:35.850 --> 00:07:39.230 subtle cringe comedy realism of Larry Sanders. 00:07:39.410 --> 00:07:42.189 Yeah. That shows incredible flexibility right 00:07:42.189 --> 00:07:44.649 away. Impressive comedic timing. And she kept 00:07:44.649 --> 00:07:46.930 that network TV presence going, too. She landed 00:07:46.930 --> 00:07:49.529 a recurring semi -regular role on Veronica's 00:07:49.529 --> 00:07:52.069 Closet. Right, as Chloe appeared in 15 episodes 00:07:52.069 --> 00:07:53.889 of that. Now, Veronica's Closet, definitely more 00:07:53.889 --> 00:07:56.629 conventional than her HBO stuff. For sure. But 00:07:56.629 --> 00:07:59.389 it kept her visible on mainstream TV while she 00:07:59.389 --> 00:08:01.269 was still kind of building that niche reputation. 00:08:01.730 --> 00:08:04.069 And it wasn't just traditional TV either. Her 00:08:04.069 --> 00:08:06.310 knack for popping up in different cultural spots 00:08:06.310 --> 00:08:09.730 really set the stage for her later genre hopping. 00:08:09.870 --> 00:08:11.629 Yeah, like music videos. This was the era when 00:08:11.629 --> 00:08:13.709 music videos... were basically mini movies, highly 00:08:13.709 --> 00:08:16.149 regarded. And she was in some classics. You got 00:08:16.149 --> 00:08:18.569 to mention Weezer's The Good Life. Yes, and Beck's 00:08:18.569 --> 00:08:20.550 The New Pollution. Totally. These weren't just 00:08:20.550 --> 00:08:22.949 like generic pop videos. They were stylized, 00:08:22.949 --> 00:08:25.930 a little quirky, real cultural markers of the 00:08:25.930 --> 00:08:28.110 mid to late 90s. She did stuff for Sheryl Crow 00:08:28.110 --> 00:08:30.529 later too, right? Yeah. And aligning herself 00:08:30.529 --> 00:08:32.990 with artists like Weezer and Beck who had their 00:08:32.990 --> 00:08:35.830 own distinctive kind of oddball cultural thing 00:08:35.830 --> 00:08:38.970 going on. Right. That was really key in cementing 00:08:38.970 --> 00:08:43.129 her status as this alternative. comic actor and 00:08:43.129 --> 00:08:45.830 her early film cameos did the same thing showed 00:08:45.830 --> 00:08:47.850 she could steal a scene with barely any screen 00:08:47.850 --> 00:08:50.470 time like friday's mary and man on the moon the 00:08:50.470 --> 00:08:53.690 andy kaufman biopic and just a voice role female 00:08:53.690 --> 00:08:56.049 radio caller in the truth about cats and dogs 00:08:56.049 --> 00:09:00.429 small parts but requiring really specific character 00:09:00.429 --> 00:09:03.529 work not just you know background filler so what's 00:09:03.529 --> 00:09:05.029 fascinating when you look at this early period 00:09:05.029 --> 00:09:08.120 is She wasn't chasing the typical starlet path, 00:09:08.379 --> 00:09:10.980 you know, not going for romantic leads. It seems 00:09:10.980 --> 00:09:13.480 like it was laser focused on becoming this indispensable, 00:09:13.700 --> 00:09:16.340 unique fixture in really influential, high quality 00:09:16.340 --> 00:09:18.820 comedy. Whether it was the brainy sketch stuff 00:09:18.820 --> 00:09:21.259 of Mr. Show, the subtle realism of Larry Sanders, 00:09:21.500 --> 00:09:23.740 or even just the visual vibe of a Beck video. 00:09:23.879 --> 00:09:26.919 She built this whole professional identity based 00:09:26.919 --> 00:09:30.720 on being the intensely specific, slightly awkward, 00:09:30.799 --> 00:09:34.000 but deeply reliable. supporting player exactly 00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:37.500 which ironically set her up perfectly for the 00:09:37.500 --> 00:09:40.340 huge mainstream role that would completely redefine 00:09:40.340 --> 00:09:42.200 her fame and that of course brings us to the 00:09:42.200 --> 00:09:44.799 role that basically defined a decade for her 00:09:44.799 --> 00:09:48.340 and shot her into like global recognition ctu 00:09:48.340 --> 00:09:52.169 systems analyst chloe o 'brien on 24 yeah This 00:09:52.169 --> 00:09:54.509 is the moment the alt -comedy insider suddenly 00:09:54.509 --> 00:09:57.049 becomes the absolutely essential sidekick in 00:09:57.049 --> 00:09:59.850 this massive high -octane thriller that millions 00:09:59.850 --> 00:10:02.090 watched every single week. The jump from surreal 00:10:02.090 --> 00:10:04.889 comedy to high -stakes procedural is jarring 00:10:04.889 --> 00:10:07.330 enough, right? Totally. But it's the sheer longevity 00:10:07.330 --> 00:10:10.230 and the kind of gravity of the role that really 00:10:10.230 --> 00:10:12.970 sets it apart. She joined in 2003, season three, 00:10:13.070 --> 00:10:15.610 started as just a guest star. And I think the 00:10:15.610 --> 00:10:18.549 key to why she worked so well on 24 is that she 00:10:18.549 --> 00:10:21.129 played the necessary awkwardness of Chloe. Explain 00:10:21.129 --> 00:10:23.169 that. Well, Chloe wasn't written to be smooth 00:10:23.169 --> 00:10:25.850 or charming, right? She was the socially awkward 00:10:25.850 --> 00:10:29.029 tech whiz, often really blunt, sometimes frustratingly 00:10:29.029 --> 00:10:30.970 rigid about protocol. Yeah, she could be difficult. 00:10:31.149 --> 00:10:33.669 But absolutely indispensable. She was the only 00:10:33.669 --> 00:10:36.309 person Jack Bauer could ultimately rely on when 00:10:36.309 --> 00:10:39.509 everything else was failing. And the fans loved 00:10:39.509 --> 00:10:42.370 that dynamic. So much so, she was one of the 00:10:42.370 --> 00:10:45.090 few brought back for season four. And the showrunners 00:10:45.090 --> 00:10:47.730 clearly saw that dynamic was crucial. That character 00:10:47.730 --> 00:10:50.230 provided this really necessary emotional anchor 00:10:50.230 --> 00:10:52.870 against Jack Bauer constantly going rogue. Right. 00:10:52.929 --> 00:10:56.070 So Rajshku became a main cast member in season 00:10:56.070 --> 00:10:58.409 five. And by the time the original run ended 00:10:58.409 --> 00:11:01.049 after eight seasons, she was the lead female, 00:11:01.250 --> 00:11:04.190 second billing, only to Kiefer Sutherland himself. 00:11:04.750 --> 00:11:06.970 That rise is just staggering, especially on a 00:11:06.970 --> 00:11:08.950 show like 24 where characters drop like flies. 00:11:09.009 --> 00:11:11.009 Seriously. And think about the pressure of delivering 00:11:11.009 --> 00:11:13.370 that dialogue, all that tech jargon about server 00:11:13.370 --> 00:11:17.009 farms, firewalls, data packets. She had to sound 00:11:17.009 --> 00:11:20.029 completely convincing while also conveying the 00:11:20.029 --> 00:11:22.289 insane stress of the ticking clock. And that's 00:11:22.289 --> 00:11:23.990 where her acting choices may be coming from, 00:11:24.049 --> 00:11:26.350 that visual analytical mind we talked about really 00:11:26.350 --> 00:11:29.509 shine. How so? She played Chloe with this intense 00:11:29.509 --> 00:11:32.769 focus on efficiency, almost like a robotic lack 00:11:32.769 --> 00:11:35.480 of surface emotion. because that focus was what 00:11:35.480 --> 00:11:37.840 made her reliable. Right. Her loyalty to Jack 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:40.360 wasn't shown through big speeches. Exactly. It 00:11:40.360 --> 00:11:42.700 was shown through just relentlessly getting the 00:11:42.700 --> 00:11:44.980 job done, no matter the rules or the personal 00:11:44.980 --> 00:11:47.860 risk. She channeled her fear and empathy into 00:11:47.860 --> 00:11:51.480 like frantic typing and systems analysis, not 00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:54.659 big dramatic breakdowns. And it paid off culturally 00:11:54.659 --> 00:11:56.879 in a huge way. Yeah. She actually got to say 00:11:56.879 --> 00:11:59.320 the very last words of the original series in 00:11:59.320 --> 00:12:01.519 the season eight finale. That's massive. It shows 00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:04.129 how central. her character and her performance 00:12:04.129 --> 00:12:06.429 had become to the whole show's identity. And 00:12:06.429 --> 00:12:08.769 the story didn't even end there. The legacy kept 00:12:08.769 --> 00:12:11.110 going. Right. She came back for the limited series 00:12:11.110 --> 00:12:14.830 in 2014 -24, Live Another Day, all 12 episodes. 00:12:15.049 --> 00:12:17.350 Which basically cemented Chloe as the longest 00:12:17.350 --> 00:12:19.250 running, most essential supporting character 00:12:19.250 --> 00:12:22.450 in the entire 24 universe. Her being there was 00:12:22.450 --> 00:12:24.889 just non -negotiable for the fans. And the ultimate 00:12:24.889 --> 00:12:28.570 pop culture seal of approval. Ah, yes. The Simpsons. 00:12:28.649 --> 00:12:31.649 Appearing on The Simpsons. In that 2007 episode, 00:12:31.889 --> 00:12:34.529 24 Minutes, she and Kiefer Sutherland voiced 00:12:34.529 --> 00:12:37.090 their characters in the parody. Once you're parodied 00:12:37.090 --> 00:12:38.909 on The Simpsons, you know you've saturated the 00:12:38.909 --> 00:12:41.340 culture. Absolutely. And we should mention the 00:12:41.340 --> 00:12:43.279 critical recognition, too, even if it wasn't 00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:45.720 individual acting awards. Okay. She got nominated 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:49.039 twice for a Screen Actors Guild Award 2005 and 00:12:49.039 --> 00:12:52.399 2007 as part of the Ensemble for Outstanding 00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:54.779 Performance in a Drama Series. Her presence was 00:12:54.779 --> 00:12:57.700 absolutely vital to that ensemble's success and 00:12:57.700 --> 00:13:01.460 its dramatic weight. So here's where it gets 00:13:01.460 --> 00:13:04.799 really interesting for me. She spends almost 00:13:04.799 --> 00:13:08.970 a decade tied to this incredibly intense serious 00:13:08.970 --> 00:13:11.809 globally famous role right and yet at the same 00:13:11.809 --> 00:13:15.019 time she's actively cultivating and taking on 00:13:15.019 --> 00:13:17.299 some of the weirdest, most specific and often 00:13:17.299 --> 00:13:20.759 downright repulsive comedic roles you can imagine. 00:13:20.980 --> 00:13:23.820 Yeah. This period just shows the incredible artistic 00:13:23.820 --> 00:13:26.440 freedom that a massive hit like 24 can actually 00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:28.820 buy you. That really is the core paradox, isn't 00:13:28.820 --> 00:13:30.799 it? Being Chloe O 'Brien didn't box her in. If 00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:32.940 anything, it seemed to like liberate her. Yeah, 00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:35.100 it feels that way. She actively went after high 00:13:35.100 --> 00:13:37.299 quality indie films and dramatic roles that were 00:13:37.299 --> 00:13:40.299 the complete opposite of the CTU basement. OK, 00:13:40.379 --> 00:13:42.580 well, give us some examples. Well, look at the 00:13:42.580 --> 00:13:44.919 films she was choosing then. She pops up in some 00:13:44.919 --> 00:13:48.379 really acclaimed, auteur -driven stuff like Punch 00:13:48.379 --> 00:13:51.080 Drunk Love. Paul Thomas Anderson. Very stylized. 00:13:51.159 --> 00:13:54.460 Exactly. And she had a role in that really powerful, 00:13:54.539 --> 00:13:58.379 tough indie drama Mysterious Skin. She played 00:13:58.379 --> 00:14:01.539 Avalyn Friesen. Okay. Mysterious Skin requires 00:14:01.539 --> 00:14:04.940 some serious dramatic commitment. That's a world 00:14:04.940 --> 00:14:07.620 away from the action dialogue of 24. Totally. 00:14:07.659 --> 00:14:09.799 It shows she was really dedicated to proving 00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:12.000 her dramatic range outside the thriller box. 00:14:12.259 --> 00:14:14.960 And she also landed parts in those key indie 00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:17.419 darlings like Little Miss Sunshine. As pageant 00:14:17.419 --> 00:14:20.200 assistant Pam. Yes. And later. sunshine cleaning 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:22.480 and that cool little time travel comedy safety 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:26.240 not guaranteed so those film choices they paint 00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:28.340 a picture of an actor who's prioritizing like 00:14:28.340 --> 00:14:31.139 script quality and unique characters over just 00:14:31.139 --> 00:14:33.879 grabbing big blockbuster paychecks yeah it seems 00:14:33.879 --> 00:14:35.379 like she wanted to work with interesting independent 00:14:35.379 --> 00:14:37.720 voices and her recent work keeps that standard 00:14:37.720 --> 00:14:39.960 up right still choosing interesting dramatic 00:14:39.960 --> 00:14:42.460 roles definitely she was in the sci -fi movie 00:14:42.460 --> 00:14:44.779 the tomorrow war as nora showing she can still 00:14:44.779 --> 00:14:48.309 handle genre stuff and crucially She took that 00:14:48.309 --> 00:14:50.769 four -episode dramatic part in the dropout on 00:14:50.769 --> 00:14:53.669 Hulu. Which is huge. Yeah, playing Lorraine Fuse, 00:14:53.769 --> 00:14:56.330 William H. Macy's character's wife. That required 00:14:56.330 --> 00:14:59.009 portraying a real person caught up in this big 00:14:59.009 --> 00:15:02.029 medical legal drama. Totally different tone again. 00:15:02.210 --> 00:15:04.509 Okay, so that's the serious side. But then you 00:15:04.509 --> 00:15:07.309 pivot, and there's just the sheer fun of the 00:15:07.309 --> 00:15:10.009 comedy cameo powerhouse side of her career. Oh, 00:15:10.009 --> 00:15:12.289 yeah. She's the master of those perfect, unforgettable 00:15:12.289 --> 00:15:15.700 bit parts, often playing like... The single weirdest 00:15:15.700 --> 00:15:17.779 person in the scene that just stick in your head. 00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:21.019 Totally. Think about Blind Brenda in Road Trip. 00:15:21.139 --> 00:15:24.039 Oh, my God. Just a one scene marvel of awkward 00:15:24.039 --> 00:15:27.419 physical comedy gold. Or Zelmina in Dude, Where's 00:15:27.419 --> 00:15:31.659 My Car? Yeah. And Sweet Home Alabama. Sarah and 00:15:31.659 --> 00:15:33.720 Julie and Julia. They're all perfect examples 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:36.620 of her using that unique kind of off center comedic 00:15:36.620 --> 00:15:38.919 persona she built back in the 90s. But nothing. 00:15:39.580 --> 00:15:42.519 Nothing captures that sheer, joyful, artistic 00:15:42.519 --> 00:15:45.759 contradiction more than Gail the Snail. Ah, the 00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:49.000 snail. An internet legend in her own right. Living 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:50.940 right alongside Chloe O 'Brien and the cultural 00:15:50.940 --> 00:15:53.840 consciousness. It's insane. Gail the Snail from 00:15:53.840 --> 00:15:56.059 It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. I mean, it's 00:15:56.059 --> 00:15:59.700 just pure artistic commitment to grotesquery. 00:15:59.820 --> 00:16:01.899 Right. She first showed up in The Gang Gives 00:16:01.899 --> 00:16:04.779 Frank an Intervention. And the character is just 00:16:04.779 --> 00:16:09.389 everything. awkward, strange, needy, repulsive, 00:16:09.570 --> 00:16:12.509 often physically aggressive. The spit. She's 00:16:12.509 --> 00:16:14.690 famous for the spit. And the bizarre physical 00:16:14.690 --> 00:16:17.690 stuff, the total lack of social awareness. It 00:16:17.690 --> 00:16:20.289 takes serious confidence as a performer. To commit 00:16:20.289 --> 00:16:22.450 that hard to a character whose whole point is 00:16:22.450 --> 00:16:24.570 basically to make everyone watching and the gang 00:16:24.570 --> 00:16:27.690 feel disgusted. Oh, absolutely. And when you 00:16:27.690 --> 00:16:31.789 compare the like tight, controlled, intense posture 00:16:31.789 --> 00:16:34.169 of Chloe O 'Brien hands always ready over the 00:16:34.169 --> 00:16:36.990 keyboard, back straight with the kind of slouched, 00:16:37.029 --> 00:16:39.590 aggressive, perpetually sticky posture of Gail 00:16:39.590 --> 00:16:42.509 the snail, you see the incredible physical transformation. 00:16:42.629 --> 00:16:44.950 She's using those visual observation tools from 00:16:44.950 --> 00:16:47.889 art school to create this utterly repellent physical 00:16:47.889 --> 00:16:50.240 composition. It's brilliant. in a horrifying 00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:52.379 way and she clearly loved it because she kept 00:16:52.379 --> 00:16:54.840 coming back reprised the role multiple times 00:16:54.840 --> 00:16:57.460 the ninth season finale season 13's the gang 00:16:57.460 --> 00:16:59.980 beats boggs ladies reboot which is fantastic 00:16:59.980 --> 00:17:03.659 yeah so that enduring presence means she successfully 00:17:03.659 --> 00:17:08.180 anchored two major culturally defining tv roles 00:17:08.180 --> 00:17:10.759 that could not possibly be further apart on the 00:17:10.759 --> 00:17:13.339 spectrum of tone and style Let's quickly hit 00:17:13.339 --> 00:17:15.779 some other recurring TV comedy roles, too, because 00:17:15.779 --> 00:17:18.859 even while 24 was massive, she was still popping 00:17:18.859 --> 00:17:21.079 up in other great comedies. Right. She played 00:17:21.079 --> 00:17:23.660 Genevieve Mirren Carter over five episodes of 00:17:23.660 --> 00:17:25.680 Brooklyn Nine -Nine. Which fit her perfectly. 00:17:25.819 --> 00:17:27.400 Totally. And we have to talk about Flight of 00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:30.170 the Conchords. Oh, yes. Her guest spot as Karen, 00:17:30.329 --> 00:17:32.990 the art Garfunkel fanatic and prime minister. 00:17:33.170 --> 00:17:36.069 That is peak niche comedy casting. It's just 00:17:36.069 --> 00:17:38.789 perfect for a role that needs that very specific, 00:17:38.910 --> 00:17:41.890 slightly unhinged intensity hidden under this 00:17:41.890 --> 00:17:44.630 totally mundane exterior. And finally, her appearance 00:17:44.630 --> 00:17:47.869 in Arrest Development's fourth season as Heartfire. 00:17:48.049 --> 00:17:50.210 Yes, which is crucial because it loops right 00:17:50.210 --> 00:17:52.730 back to her visual arts background. How so? It 00:17:52.730 --> 00:17:55.180 was a silent role. But really well received. 00:17:55.279 --> 00:17:57.859 And Raj Scoop herself described Heartfire as 00:17:57.859 --> 00:18:00.400 a character who speaks from the heart but doesn't 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:03.599 use any words. Wow. So a performance built entirely 00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:06.259 on physical presence, visual storytelling, deliberate 00:18:06.259 --> 00:18:09.440 movement. Pure visual art principles just translated 00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:11.900 onto the screen. Amazing. And even when the projects 00:18:11.900 --> 00:18:14.259 themselves weren't maybe top tier. Like Night 00:18:14.259 --> 00:18:17.089 School. Right. 2018 movie Night School, she played 00:18:17.089 --> 00:18:19.210 Teresa. The reviews were kind of middling for 00:18:19.210 --> 00:18:21.410 the film itself. But Michael Phillips, the critic 00:18:21.410 --> 00:18:23.349 at the Chicago Tribune, specifically pointed 00:18:23.349 --> 00:18:25.950 her out. He said something like, the actors aren't 00:18:25.950 --> 00:18:28.170 the problem with Night School, the material is. 00:18:28.450 --> 00:18:31.589 So even in a weaker film, she brings that commitment 00:18:31.589 --> 00:18:34.490 and quality that stands out. She elevates it. 00:18:34.650 --> 00:18:38.009 So, okay, she's conquered mainstream drama, indie 00:18:38.009 --> 00:18:41.690 film, cult comedy. What next? Well, she turned 00:18:41.690 --> 00:18:45.099 inward. Focusing more on writing and solo performance, 00:18:45.339 --> 00:18:48.539 using her own unique experiences with fame and 00:18:48.539 --> 00:18:51.539 just life as her material. Which really shows 00:18:51.539 --> 00:18:53.460 her commitment to being authentic, doesn't it? 00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:55.980 Yeah, I think so. The shift really started with 00:18:55.980 --> 00:18:59.539 her solo shows. Back in 2010, she performed Mary 00:18:59.539 --> 00:19:01.599 Lynn Spreads Her Legs at the Steve Allen Theater 00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:04.940 in L .A. Bold title. Very bold. And this show 00:19:04.940 --> 00:19:07.839 was intensely personal. Directly inspired by 00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:11.079 her experiences with pregnancy, childbirth, becoming 00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:13.160 a mother for the first time. And the reviews 00:19:13.160 --> 00:19:15.920 noted that boldness, right? The unvarnished tone. 00:19:16.180 --> 00:19:19.480 Exactly. F. Kathleen Foley at the LA Times wrote 00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:23.079 that the cheerfully vulgar title sums up the 00:19:23.079 --> 00:19:25.740 overall tone, which is often breezily obscene. 00:19:25.900 --> 00:19:28.099 OK, so that confirms she's still committed to 00:19:28.099 --> 00:19:31.279 this really bold, unfiltered style, which is 00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:33.619 so fundamentally different from the kind of reserved 00:19:33.619 --> 00:19:36.619 professional vibe of Chloe O 'Brien. Completely. 00:19:36.619 --> 00:19:40.640 She uses the stage to just fully embrace the 00:19:40.640 --> 00:19:43.220 chaos and messiness of life that her mainstream 00:19:43.220 --> 00:19:45.740 roles rarely let her touch. And she took that 00:19:45.740 --> 00:19:49.420 very personal style international. In 2016, she 00:19:49.420 --> 00:19:51.799 did the Edinburgh Fringe Festival with a show 00:19:51.799 --> 00:19:54.099 called 24 Hours with Mary Lynn Rodscope. Right. 00:19:54.160 --> 00:19:56.339 And that one dealt more directly with that clash 00:19:56.339 --> 00:19:58.779 juggling domestic life with the absurdity of 00:19:58.779 --> 00:20:01.359 being this specific kind of famous. The recognizable 00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:04.680 but still sort of niche celebrity balancing family 00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:06.680 with trying to do your own independent stuff. 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:08.720 Yeah. And she was doing more traditional stand 00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:10.779 up, too, like appearing on John Oliver's New 00:20:10.779 --> 00:20:13.480 York stand up show back in 2010. And beyond the 00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:15.519 stage, she was actually pretty early in the digital 00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:18.470 content game, right? Recognizing the power of 00:20:18.470 --> 00:20:21.769 making her own stuff. Totally. In 2011, she had 00:20:21.769 --> 00:20:24.609 that web series Dickie on my damn channel. And 00:20:24.609 --> 00:20:26.130 it was apparently one of their most successful 00:20:26.130 --> 00:20:28.410 series. And Dickie is another great example of 00:20:28.410 --> 00:20:31.029 her tapping into those Midwestern roots and her 00:20:31.029 --> 00:20:34.140 art background. How so? The character, this 40 00:20:34.140 --> 00:20:36.400 -year -old woman living at home, obsessed with 00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:39.220 making crafts and taking her art super seriously. 00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:43.299 It feels clearly based on really specific observations 00:20:43.299 --> 00:20:46.319 of people she grew up around in Michigan. It's 00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:49.079 like the visual artist creating a character study 00:20:49.079 --> 00:20:51.299 of someone on the fringes. And she was involved 00:20:51.299 --> 00:20:53.940 in early podcasting, too, hosting Kicking It 00:20:53.940 --> 00:20:56.140 Mary Lynn style on the Nerdist Network. Right. 00:20:56.259 --> 00:20:59.200 Just further proof she knew how to connect directly 00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:01.880 with those niche audiences outside the usual. 00:21:02.089 --> 00:21:04.190 network structures. So all this creative output, 00:21:04.329 --> 00:21:07.329 the solo shows, the web series, the stand -up, 00:21:07.329 --> 00:21:08.930 it feels like it all kind of led to her written 00:21:08.930 --> 00:21:12.130 work. Her book, yeah. In 2022, she released her 00:21:12.130 --> 00:21:15.589 first book, Famish, My Life at the Edge of Stardom. 00:21:15.670 --> 00:21:19.289 And that title, Famish, it's just perfect, isn't 00:21:19.289 --> 00:21:21.250 it? It sums up her whole career. Absolutely. 00:21:21.309 --> 00:21:23.829 It addresses that really unique situation of 00:21:23.829 --> 00:21:27.089 being instantly recognizable everywhere. You 00:21:27.089 --> 00:21:29.009 can't go through an airport without someone yelling 00:21:29.009 --> 00:21:32.490 Chloe at her. Right. But not fitting that conventional 00:21:32.490 --> 00:21:36.049 A -list superstar mold, it means having the creative 00:21:36.049 --> 00:21:38.609 freedom of an artist without maybe the suffocating 00:21:38.609 --> 00:21:41.730 pressure of being like a Tom Cruise level celebrity. 00:21:41.730 --> 00:21:45.609 And that specific balance clearly still resonates. 00:21:45.970 --> 00:21:50.359 Her appearance just last year. 2023, on Celebrity 00:21:50.359 --> 00:21:52.740 Wheel of Fortune. Oh yeah, that went viral, didn't 00:21:52.740 --> 00:21:54.940 it? Totally. An official clip of her and Paul 00:21:54.940 --> 00:21:57.480 Scheer just goofing around got over 2 million 00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:00.920 views on TikTok. Her ability to connect is still 00:22:00.920 --> 00:22:02.859 incredibly strong, precisely because she just 00:22:02.859 --> 00:22:05.220 leans into her own unique thing, even when she's 00:22:05.220 --> 00:22:07.960 just spinning a puzzle wheel. And finally, we 00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:09.160 should probably touch on some of the personal 00:22:09.160 --> 00:22:11.359 details she shares, which add to that authentic 00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:13.740 image. Right. The source material confirms she 00:22:13.740 --> 00:22:16.059 identifies as bisexual. And her relationship 00:22:16.059 --> 00:22:18.519 history includes some interesting creative figures. 00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:21.500 Theated music producer John Breon for five years. 00:22:21.740 --> 00:22:24.460 And the comedian Duncan Trussell. Yeah. And her 00:22:24.460 --> 00:22:28.039 marriage story is pretty fittingly unconventional, 00:22:28.059 --> 00:22:30.160 too. Matthew Rolfe, the personal trainer. Right. 00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:32.740 Met him after one of her comedy sets. Started 00:22:32.740 --> 00:22:35.579 dating. Pregnant three months later. Wow. Son 00:22:35.579 --> 00:22:38.559 born in 2008. And then they had this impromptu 00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:42.859 wedding in Vegas on August 1st, 2009. Very Vegas. 00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:44.720 Very comedian. Totally. They were married for 00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:46.380 about a decade. Then she filed for divorce in 00:22:46.380 --> 00:22:49.180 2019. But it's clear that whole life story, the 00:22:49.180 --> 00:22:52.160 ups, the downs, provides tons of material for 00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:56.140 her really honest, often vulgar comedy about 00:22:56.140 --> 00:22:59.740 motherhood and just life. Hashtag tag outro host 00:22:59.740 --> 00:23:01.359 and expert. So when you put it all together. 00:23:02.029 --> 00:23:04.710 What an incredible mix of artistic paths. It 00:23:04.710 --> 00:23:07.170 really is. We've traced her from like the San 00:23:07.170 --> 00:23:09.710 Francisco Art Institute as a painter to this 00:23:09.710 --> 00:23:12.730 super specific stylized world of Mr. Show to 00:23:12.730 --> 00:23:15.390 being the absolute essential female lead in a 00:23:15.390 --> 00:23:17.769 global phenomenon like 24. And while doing all 00:23:17.769 --> 00:23:19.809 that, she's pioneering web series, popping up 00:23:19.809 --> 00:23:21.869 in iconic music videos and doing this really 00:23:21.869 --> 00:23:24.950 self -deprecating, deeply honest solo comedy. 00:23:25.150 --> 00:23:27.150 I mean, if we try to connect this to the bigger 00:23:27.150 --> 00:23:30.859 picture. Her career really demonstrates the huge 00:23:30.859 --> 00:23:34.140 value of like artistic self -possession. Meaning 00:23:34.140 --> 00:23:37.539 she built a career on being indispensable, not 00:23:37.539 --> 00:23:40.990 just interchangeable. distinct, recognizable, 00:23:41.289 --> 00:23:43.990 comedic voice, even when it was awkward or weird, 00:23:44.150 --> 00:23:46.789 gave her the artistic leverage and probably the 00:23:46.789 --> 00:23:50.069 financial freedom from 24 to just bounce between 00:23:50.069 --> 00:23:52.609 these massive commercial things and then really 00:23:52.609 --> 00:23:55.930 specific niche personal projects, like committing 00:23:55.930 --> 00:23:59.170 100 % to being the repulsive Gail Disnail. It's 00:23:59.170 --> 00:24:01.170 an amazing display of professional flexibility. 00:24:01.509 --> 00:24:05.069 She figured out how to be quiet, intense, and 00:24:05.069 --> 00:24:08.630 hyper -competent on a huge Fox drama. Yeah. And 00:24:08.630 --> 00:24:11.349 then turn around and be loud, disturbing, and 00:24:11.349 --> 00:24:13.789 gloriously incompetent on a cult effect show. 00:24:13.950 --> 00:24:16.190 And achieving that kind of longevity by holding 00:24:16.190 --> 00:24:18.529 onto your artistic integrity across such wildly 00:24:18.529 --> 00:24:20.329 different scales of fame, that's really rare. 00:24:20.549 --> 00:24:22.250 It feels like she took the structure and the 00:24:22.250 --> 00:24:24.990 safety net of mainstream success. And used it 00:24:24.990 --> 00:24:27.089 to fuel her more experimental, more personal, 00:24:27.190 --> 00:24:29.950 often much more awkward artistic impulses. So 00:24:29.950 --> 00:24:31.829 what does this all mean? I guess it means embracing 00:24:31.829 --> 00:24:34.849 your quirks, your unique perspective, even if 00:24:34.849 --> 00:24:37.779 it's visually awkward, can lead to this. Really 00:24:37.779 --> 00:24:40.720 unexpected cultural staying power. Influence 00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:42.680 that goes way beyond what a more conventional 00:24:42.680 --> 00:24:46.240 career path might give you. Yeah. Mary Lynn Rajskub 00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:49.079 is kind of proof that success isn't about fitting 00:24:49.079 --> 00:24:52.440 neatly into one box. It's about owning every 00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:54.240 single one of your contradictions. Well, totally. 00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:56.319 And it makes you think, doesn't it, about the 00:24:56.319 --> 00:24:59.119 complexity of fame now in the Internet age? How 00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:02.140 so? Well, how does that specific kind of... fame 00:25:02.140 --> 00:25:04.720 -ish she talks about in her book being instantly 00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:08.079 recognizable for these niche or cult roles right 00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:11.380 alongside a defining mainstream role. How does 00:25:11.380 --> 00:25:13.220 that reflect the modern balance between, you 00:25:13.220 --> 00:25:15.339 know, widespread recognition and personal artistic 00:25:15.339 --> 00:25:18.009 freedom? That's a great question. And ultimately, 00:25:18.069 --> 00:25:20.829 which version of her wins out? Which persona, 00:25:21.069 --> 00:25:23.529 the sharp visual artist, the loyal tech analyst, 00:25:23.730 --> 00:25:26.549 or the aggressively awful snail will be the one 00:25:26.549 --> 00:25:28.930 that history really remembers as defining her 00:25:28.930 --> 00:25:31.470 legacy? Something to definitely mull over. Until 00:25:31.470 --> 00:25:32.490 our next deep dive.