WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.480 Welcome to the Deep Dive. Today we're looking 00:00:02.480 --> 00:00:05.219 at a career that, well, it almost feels like 00:00:05.219 --> 00:00:07.240 two different careers, doesn't it? It really 00:00:07.240 --> 00:00:09.699 does. We're talking about Robert John Odenkirk. 00:00:09.859 --> 00:00:11.970 Right. And it's this incredible contradiction. 00:00:12.050 --> 00:00:14.169 You've got the guy most people probably know 00:00:14.169 --> 00:00:17.089 now, the intense, dramatic actor from Breaking 00:00:17.089 --> 00:00:19.809 Bad from Better Call Saul. The antihero. Yeah. 00:00:19.910 --> 00:00:22.910 A major dramatic star who, you know, kind of 00:00:22.910 --> 00:00:24.789 came into that later in his career, like in his 00:00:24.789 --> 00:00:27.089 late 40s. But before any of that, he'd already 00:00:27.089 --> 00:00:28.989 carved out this whole other identity, a really 00:00:28.989 --> 00:00:32.310 significant one, actually. A cult comedy legend, 00:00:32.530 --> 00:00:37.030 a writer, Emmy winner. It's wild. Absolutely. 00:00:37.049 --> 00:00:40.109 Two primetime Emmys for writing comedy back in 00:00:40.109 --> 00:00:42.490 the early 90s. That's the foundation. But then 00:00:42.490 --> 00:00:44.850 you look at the acting nods later on. Six Emmy 00:00:44.850 --> 00:00:47.009 nominations just for lead actor in Better Call 00:00:47.009 --> 00:00:49.170 Saul. Six. Yeah. And that's not even counting 00:00:49.170 --> 00:00:51.009 the Golden Globes. The Critics' Choice wins. 00:00:51.250 --> 00:00:53.929 Right. Three wins there for best actors. The 00:00:53.929 --> 00:00:57.090 contrast is stark. So that's our mission today. 00:00:57.189 --> 00:00:59.789 We want to dig into that shift. How does someone 00:00:59.789 --> 00:01:03.759 go from feeling, as he apparently did, kind of 00:01:03.759 --> 00:01:06.299 uncertain about his comedy writing, to becoming 00:01:06.299 --> 00:01:10.140 this celebrated dramatic force. And then, you 00:01:10.140 --> 00:01:12.159 know, an action star. Yeah, the action star thing 00:01:12.159 --> 00:01:14.500 is another curveball. It's a story about restlessness, 00:01:14.579 --> 00:01:18.280 I think. About always pushing, adapting. So we're 00:01:18.280 --> 00:01:21.180 tracing that path from the weirdness of Mr. Show 00:01:21.180 --> 00:01:25.400 to the prestige world of AMC drama. Let's start 00:01:25.400 --> 00:01:27.120 at the beginning then. Where did this drive come 00:01:27.120 --> 00:01:29.799 from? Well, like a lot of comedians, maybe, it 00:01:29.799 --> 00:01:31.540 starts with wanting to get away from somewhere. 00:01:31.840 --> 00:01:36.120 Okay. So, born in Berwyn, Illinois, 1962, but 00:01:36.120 --> 00:01:38.200 he grew up mostly in Naperville. In Naperville. 00:01:38.739 --> 00:01:40.719 Let's just say he wasn't a fan. He's been pretty 00:01:40.719 --> 00:01:43.079 blunt about it. Said he grew up hating the place. 00:01:43.239 --> 00:01:46.019 Hating it. Wow. Yeah. Called it a dead end. Felt 00:01:46.019 --> 00:01:48.120 like there was no culture, nothing creative happening. 00:01:48.159 --> 00:01:49.939 He just couldn't wait to get out, move to a city, 00:01:50.019 --> 00:01:51.879 be around people making things. That seems like 00:01:51.879 --> 00:01:54.140 a big early motivator. And it sounds like home 00:01:54.140 --> 00:01:56.180 life wasn't exactly stable either. He was one 00:01:56.180 --> 00:01:58.400 of seven kids. Second oldest of seven, yeah. 00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:02.340 His parents were Walter, who ran a printing business, 00:02:02.579 --> 00:02:05.799 and Barbara. Catholic background, German and 00:02:05.799 --> 00:02:09.680 Irish roots. But his father's alcoholism was 00:02:09.680 --> 00:02:12.599 a major issue. It led to his parents divorcing. 00:02:12.599 --> 00:02:14.759 And Odenkirk's description of his father is. 00:02:15.849 --> 00:02:18.770 Well, it's harsh, remote, fucked up and not around. 00:02:19.110 --> 00:02:21.389 It was rough. And that had a direct impact on 00:02:21.389 --> 00:02:23.629 him personally. Definitely. He made a conscious 00:02:23.629 --> 00:02:26.110 choice to avoid alcohol himself because of it. 00:02:26.150 --> 00:02:28.330 And you kind of wonder, don't you, if maybe that 00:02:28.330 --> 00:02:31.229 experience, that lack of control at home fueled 00:02:31.229 --> 00:02:34.169 this intense focus on his work later, like creating 00:02:34.169 --> 00:02:37.250 order in his career. Interesting point. That 00:02:37.250 --> 00:02:39.069 focus definitely shows up early academically. 00:02:39.430 --> 00:02:40.889 You finished high school super young, right? 00:02:40.969 --> 00:02:44.050 At 16. Graduated from Naperville North. Said 00:02:44.050 --> 00:02:45.960 he was just tired of high school. and impatient, 00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:48.159 you know, ready for the next thing. So college 00:02:48.159 --> 00:02:50.479 wasn't exactly a straight line either. Not really. 00:02:50.620 --> 00:02:53.560 He bounced around a bit. College of DuPage, then 00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:56.000 Marquette University in Milwaukee, then transferred 00:02:56.000 --> 00:02:58.080 downstate to Southern Illinois University in 00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:00.000 Carbondale. That's where he eventually got his 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:03.039 communications BA in 84. But the real action 00:03:03.039 --> 00:03:04.960 was happening outside the lecture halls. Oh, 00:03:04.979 --> 00:03:08.139 for sure. Especially at SIU. He got heavily involved 00:03:08.139 --> 00:03:11.099 with the campus radio station, WIDB. That's where 00:03:11.099 --> 00:03:13.400 he really started writing sketches, performing 00:03:13.400 --> 00:03:16.360 them. On the radio. Yeah. He created this late 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:19.060 night show called The Primetime Special, ran 00:03:19.060 --> 00:03:22.139 from midnight to 4 a .m. Talk about dedication. 00:03:22.139 --> 00:03:25.180 That was his first real creative outlet, honing 00:03:25.180 --> 00:03:27.479 those skills. So after college, it had to be 00:03:27.479 --> 00:03:30.069 Chicago, right? The comedy mecca. Absolutely. 00:03:30.270 --> 00:03:32.210 He knew that's where he needed to be. He actually 00:03:32.210 --> 00:03:34.129 finished up some college credits at Columbia 00:03:34.129 --> 00:03:36.810 College Chicago while diving headfirst into the 00:03:36.810 --> 00:03:38.650 improv scene. And this is where he connects with 00:03:38.650 --> 00:03:41.590 some key figures. Huge ones. He studied under 00:03:41.590 --> 00:03:44.090 the legendary Del Close at the Players Workshop. 00:03:44.370 --> 00:03:46.629 Del Close. We should probably pause on that name 00:03:46.629 --> 00:03:48.930 for a second. Why? Because his influence, especially 00:03:48.930 --> 00:03:51.289 on the kind of comedy Odenkirk would later champion. 00:03:51.789 --> 00:03:54.370 He is massive. Totally. Close wasn't just teaching 00:03:54.370 --> 00:03:57.550 improv games. He was teaching a philosophy. Long 00:03:57.550 --> 00:04:01.129 form improv, the herald, this very structured, 00:04:01.150 --> 00:04:03.789 almost intellectual way of building comedy scenes. 00:04:04.210 --> 00:04:06.930 Themes, patterns, taking the audience somewhere 00:04:06.930 --> 00:04:09.349 unexpected. You can really see the DNA of Mr. 00:04:09.490 --> 00:04:11.590 Show in that description. Exactly. That's structured 00:04:11.590 --> 00:04:13.610 chaos. And it was at Players Workshop he met 00:04:13.610 --> 00:04:16.910 Robert Smigel. Another huge connection. Then 00:04:16.910 --> 00:04:19.629 he performed at ImprovOlympic, rubbing shoulders 00:04:19.629 --> 00:04:22.589 with guys like Chris Farley, Tim Meadows. Wow. 00:04:22.810 --> 00:04:25.470 So he was right in the thick of that incredible 00:04:25.470 --> 00:04:28.709 90s Chicago comedy explosion. Steeped in it. 00:04:29.100 --> 00:04:31.259 And his own influences kind of point to that 00:04:31.259 --> 00:04:34.000 blend of smart and silly. Monty Python's Flying 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:37.120 Circus was his number one. He loved that mix 00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:39.540 of cerebral humor and just, you know, laugh out 00:04:39.540 --> 00:04:41.800 loud absurdity. What else? You mentioned local 00:04:41.800 --> 00:04:44.579 Chicago radio guy Steve Dahl, SCTV, of course, 00:04:44.620 --> 00:04:47.180 Steve Martin. Also more niche stuff like The 00:04:47.180 --> 00:04:50.160 Credibility Gap, Bob and Ray. It wasn't about 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:52.379 traditional stand -up jokes for him. It was about 00:04:52.379 --> 00:04:54.759 constructed weirdness, maybe even anti -humor 00:04:54.759 --> 00:04:56.879 sometimes. So by the time he gets the call for 00:04:56.879 --> 00:04:58.750 SNL, he's got this really unique... toolkit. 00:04:58.949 --> 00:05:02.529 The structure from Del Close, the Python absurdity, 00:05:02.589 --> 00:05:05.230 and this like... intense personal drive yeah 00:05:05.230 --> 00:05:07.750 all forged in that desire to escape naperville 00:05:07.750 --> 00:05:09.790 and find his voice he was ready for the big leagues 00:05:09.790 --> 00:05:14.410 or so he thought okay so 1987 he lands the dream 00:05:14.410 --> 00:05:17.490 job for a comedy writer saturday night live stays 00:05:17.490 --> 00:05:20.430 till 91 he's in the room with smigel with conor 00:05:20.430 --> 00:05:22.449 o 'brien i mean that's legendary it absolutely 00:05:22.449 --> 00:05:25.029 is but here's where that odin kirk restlessness 00:05:25.029 --> 00:05:27.629 that friction really starts to show because even 00:05:27.629 --> 00:05:30.129 though he's there at the pinnacle he apparently 00:05:30.129 --> 00:05:33.920 felt Really unsure. Unsure about his writing. 00:05:34.019 --> 00:05:36.360 Yeah. He's talked about feeling like his stuff 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:38.839 just wasn't quite working at SNL. His style, 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:42.300 more conceptual, sometimes kind of dark or just 00:05:42.300 --> 00:05:44.779 plain weird. It didn't always fit the four minute 00:05:44.779 --> 00:05:47.779 punchline driven network sketch format. That 00:05:47.779 --> 00:05:49.660 makes sense. SNL needs things to land quickly, 00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:52.060 often relying on recurring bits or impressions. 00:05:52.360 --> 00:05:55.019 Yeah. His Chicago improv background was probably 00:05:55.019 --> 00:05:58.420 geared towards something. Longer. Stranger. Exactly. 00:05:58.500 --> 00:06:01.259 He felt kind of stifled by the process, the politics 00:06:01.259 --> 00:06:03.259 of getting a sketch on air. It wasn't a perfect 00:06:03.259 --> 00:06:05.360 fit for his sensibility. And ironically, his 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:07.300 biggest hit for SNL came when he wasn't even 00:06:07.300 --> 00:06:09.000 in the building, right? Right. It was during 00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:11.040 a summer break. He was back in Chicago doing 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:13.540 a show at Second City called Flag Burning, permitted 00:06:13.540 --> 00:06:16.540 in lobby only. Kitchy title. Isn't it? And that's 00:06:16.540 --> 00:06:18.709 where he cooked up. Matt Foley, motivational 00:06:18.709 --> 00:06:21.589 speaker. For Chris Farley. Specifically for Farley. 00:06:21.769 --> 00:06:24.569 Tailored it completely to Farley's physical genius 00:06:24.569 --> 00:06:27.149 and that, you know, underlying sweetness he had. 00:06:27.370 --> 00:06:30.310 Living in a van down by the river. Iconic. Instantly. 00:06:30.350 --> 00:06:33.189 And it worked because I had that classic Odenkirk 00:06:33.189 --> 00:06:35.800 mix. The completely over the top, destructive 00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:38.579 character. But then that one heartbreakingly 00:06:38.579 --> 00:06:42.000 specific, pathetic detail is brilliant. But still, 00:06:42.139 --> 00:06:44.000 he wasn't really getting on screen much himself. 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:46.779 Just that one commercial. Pretty much. That Bad 00:06:46.779 --> 00:06:49.920 Idea Jeans parody in 1990 was his most visible 00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:53.040 moment as a performer there. So by 91, even though 00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:55.980 he's surrounded by future megastars, Sandler, 00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:59.600 Spade, Rock, Farley were all there. In his last 00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:02.149 year, he decides to leave. Yeah. He realized 00:07:02.149 --> 00:07:03.709 he didn't just want to write the weird stuff. 00:07:03.750 --> 00:07:05.449 He wanted to be the weird stuff. He needed to 00:07:05.449 --> 00:07:07.910 perform. And SNL wasn't really offering him that 00:07:07.910 --> 00:07:10.610 shot. Which leads him to another legendary, albeit 00:07:10.610 --> 00:07:13.769 short -lived, show. The Ben Stiller Show, 1992. 00:07:14.610 --> 00:07:17.050 He'd known Stiller briefly from sharing an office 00:07:17.050 --> 00:07:19.829 at SNL. Ben hired him as both a writer and a 00:07:19.829 --> 00:07:23.069 performer this time on Fox. And this show, again, 00:07:23.189 --> 00:07:27.389 critically adored, commercially. Not so much. 00:07:27.610 --> 00:07:30.269 Classic story, right? They created some amazing, 00:07:30.470 --> 00:07:32.810 bizarre sketch. I remember Manson Lassie. Oh 00:07:32.810 --> 00:07:35.970 my God, yes. And the show won an Emmy for outstanding 00:07:35.970 --> 00:07:38.189 writing. He was already canceled by the time 00:07:38.189 --> 00:07:39.930 they got the award. Exactly. It just proved the 00:07:39.930 --> 00:07:42.290 network still didn't quite know what to make 00:07:42.290 --> 00:07:45.250 of that specific brand of smart alternative comedy. 00:07:45.529 --> 00:07:47.649 So after Stiller ended, he did a stint writing 00:07:47.649 --> 00:07:50.439 for Conan. Yeah, late night with Conan O 'Brien, 00:07:50.680 --> 00:07:53.920 93 to 94. Solid writing gig, kept him working. 00:07:54.100 --> 00:07:56.740 But the real game changer was teaming up with 00:07:56.740 --> 00:07:59.240 someone he met on The Stiller Show. David Cross. 00:07:59.379 --> 00:08:01.639 David Cross. And that brings us to the monument, 00:08:01.779 --> 00:08:06.360 really. Mr. Show with Bob and David. HBO, 1995 00:08:06.360 --> 00:08:10.370 to 1998. This show is... It felt different. Not 00:08:10.370 --> 00:08:12.250 just the content, but the whole structure. Totally 00:08:12.250 --> 00:08:14.610 revolutionary for a TV sketch comedy. Like we 00:08:14.610 --> 00:08:15.889 talked about with Double O's, it wasn't just 00:08:15.889 --> 00:08:17.790 isolated bits. Sketches flowed into each other, 00:08:17.870 --> 00:08:20.490 bled together, commented on each other. It was 00:08:20.490 --> 00:08:23.290 dense, non -linear meta. You kind of had to pay 00:08:23.290 --> 00:08:25.389 attention, right? It wasn't background noise 00:08:25.389 --> 00:08:28.230 comedy. Definitely not. And the talent it fostered? 00:08:28.629 --> 00:08:31.209 Unbelievable. Sarah Silverman, Jack Black, Paul 00:08:31.209 --> 00:08:34.399 F. Tompkins, Tom Kenny, Brian Posen. The list 00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:36.960 is insane. Critically loved, Emmy nominated, 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:38.860 but because it was on HBO back then. The audience 00:08:38.860 --> 00:08:41.820 was smaller, yeah. But super dedicated. That's 00:08:41.820 --> 00:08:44.480 the cult status thing. Its influence hugely outweighed 00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:47.139 its ratings. It became this touchstone for comedians 00:08:47.139 --> 00:08:49.059 and writers. But when they tried to take that 00:08:49.059 --> 00:08:52.240 Mr. Show vibe to the big screen, it didn't go 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:55.820 well. Oof, yeah. Run, Ronnie, run in 2002 based 00:08:55.820 --> 00:08:58.240 on a Mr. Show sketch. But the studio took over 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:00.899 the edit and Bob and David basically washed their 00:09:00.899 --> 00:09:03.080 hands of the final version. That must have been 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:05.820 painful, losing control like that. Crucial moment, 00:09:06.019 --> 00:09:08.419 I think. It seems like it really pushed Odenkirk 00:09:08.419 --> 00:09:10.559 towards wanting more control, wanting to direct 00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:13.399 his own stuff, which unfortunately led to a pretty 00:09:13.399 --> 00:09:15.200 tough decade for him behind the camera. Right, 00:09:15.259 --> 00:09:17.179 the 2000s. People forget this period, but he 00:09:17.179 --> 00:09:19.440 was directing features. He was. And his first 00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:21.980 one, Melvin Goes to Dinner in 2003, was actually 00:09:21.980 --> 00:09:24.940 well -received. Small, indie, character -focused. 00:09:25.220 --> 00:09:27.320 Won an audience award at South by Southwest. 00:09:27.899 --> 00:09:30.450 Showed he could handle nuanced stuff. But then 00:09:30.450 --> 00:09:33.629 came the studio comedies. Yeah. Let's go to prison 00:09:33.629 --> 00:09:38.029 in 2006. The Brother Solomon in 2007. Those did 00:09:38.029 --> 00:09:40.230 not go over well. Critically panned, commercially 00:09:40.230 --> 00:09:42.450 unsuccessful. It feels like maybe the studio 00:09:42.450 --> 00:09:45.350 system just wasn't the right fit for his sensibility, 00:09:45.470 --> 00:09:48.210 especially after the run, Ronnie, run experience. 00:09:48.330 --> 00:09:51.009 He needed that creative freedom. Seems likely. 00:09:51.210 --> 00:09:53.549 And he was trying constantly to get his own stuff 00:09:53.549 --> 00:09:57.090 made, too. Develop TV pilots like The Big Wide 00:09:57.090 --> 00:10:00.610 World of Carl Lamke, David's Situation. But nothing 00:10:00.610 --> 00:10:02.450 got ticked up. It sounds like a really frustrating 00:10:02.450 --> 00:10:04.830 time. Lots of work, not a lot clicking commercially. 00:10:05.149 --> 00:10:07.090 But even while his own projects were maybe struggling, 00:10:07.289 --> 00:10:09.549 he was still finding and championing other unique 00:10:09.549 --> 00:10:12.690 voices, right? Absolutely. This is key. He didn't 00:10:12.690 --> 00:10:15.490 abandon that alt -comedy world. He famously discovered 00:10:15.490 --> 00:10:17.909 Tim Heidecker and Eric Wareheim. Tim and Eric. 00:10:18.070 --> 00:10:20.360 Yeah. He helped them get... Tom goes to the mayor 00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:22.980 and then Tim and Eric. Awesome show. Great job 00:10:22.980 --> 00:10:26.000 off the ground. He saw their bizarre genius and 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:28.360 used his clout to support it. It shows he was 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:30.379 still connected to that fringe, even when trying 00:10:30.379 --> 00:10:32.600 to make more mainstream stuff himself. And we 00:10:32.600 --> 00:10:36.340 have to mention the big what if from this era, 00:10:36.480 --> 00:10:40.519 The Office. Ah, yes. The Michael Scott near miss. 00:10:40.759 --> 00:10:43.059 He was seriously in the running for the pilot. 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:45.080 Can you imagine? It's hard to picture anyone 00:10:45.080 --> 00:10:47.740 but Carell now. It really is. But clearly the 00:10:47.740 --> 00:10:49.919 office folks loved him because they brought him 00:10:49.919 --> 00:10:52.460 back for a guest spot in the final season. He 00:10:52.460 --> 00:10:55.379 played this manager in Philly who was very Michael 00:10:55.379 --> 00:10:57.759 Scott -esque. A fun little nod to that alternate 00:10:57.759 --> 00:11:00.480 reality. But his real path, the one nobody saw 00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:02.740 coming, was about to open up. Not in comedy, 00:11:02.820 --> 00:11:05.379 but in drama. Yeah. Albuquerque was calling. 00:11:05.559 --> 00:11:09.000 Okay, so 2009, Breaking Bad is on AMC, already 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:11.559 a critical darling, and suddenly Bob Odenkirk 00:11:11.559 --> 00:11:13.940 shows up. Out of nowhere, right, as Saul Goodman, 00:11:14.059 --> 00:11:17.519 the flashy, morally flexible lawyer. And the 00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:19.460 crazy thing is, this wasn't supposed to be a 00:11:19.460 --> 00:11:21.840 big deal initially. Not at all. Get this. The 00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:23.960 role was written as just a three -episode guest 00:11:23.960 --> 00:11:26.159 spot in season two. Three episodes? Seriously? 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:28.019 Yeah, he was just meant to be a plot device, 00:11:28.179 --> 00:11:29.919 basically. Help Walt and Jesse navigate some 00:11:29.919 --> 00:11:32.919 legal trouble. But Odekirk just popped. He really 00:11:32.919 --> 00:11:35.940 did. That mix of sleaze and confidence, comedy, 00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:39.620 and, like, genuine menace underneath. Vince Gilligan 00:11:39.620 --> 00:11:42.139 and Peter Gold, the creators, saw it immediately. 00:11:42.360 --> 00:11:44.820 They were blown away. That three -episode arc, 00:11:45.039 --> 00:11:47.419 forget it. He became a series regular from season 00:11:47.419 --> 00:11:49.600 three all the way to the end. He just brought 00:11:49.600 --> 00:11:52.019 this unexpected depth to the character. And that 00:11:52.019 --> 00:11:55.090 depth, that complexity they saw. That led directly 00:11:55.090 --> 00:11:57.590 to Better Call Saul. The spinoff premiered 2015, 00:11:57.850 --> 00:12:01.629 ran till 2022. And now Odenkirk isn't just a 00:12:01.629 --> 00:12:04.190 scene stealer. He's the lead. Charting that whole 00:12:04.190 --> 00:12:07.190 transformation of Jimmy McGill into Saul Goodman. 00:12:07.309 --> 00:12:10.169 And he's a producer on this one, too. Huge shift 00:12:10.169 --> 00:12:13.889 from cult comedian to the face of a major prestige 00:12:13.889 --> 00:12:18.440 drama. And the acclaim. It was intense. Off the 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:20.679 charts. I mean, the Emmy situation alone is kind 00:12:20.679 --> 00:12:23.600 of nuts. Six nominations for Outstanding Lead 00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:25.860 Actor in a Drama Series for Saul. Six times, 00:12:25.899 --> 00:12:28.399 and he never won that specific Emmy. Right. It 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:30.340 ties the record for most nominations in that 00:12:30.340 --> 00:12:32.580 category without a win, which is, you know, a 00:12:32.580 --> 00:12:34.320 weird record to hold, but it speaks volumes about 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:36.259 how consistently great the critics thought he 00:12:36.259 --> 00:12:38.700 was year after year. And the Golden Globes piled 00:12:38.700 --> 00:12:41.179 up, too? Five nominations there. But he did get 00:12:41.179 --> 00:12:42.779 the win multiple times at the Critics' Choice 00:12:42.779 --> 00:12:45.720 Awards. Right, three wins for... Best actor in 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:48.659 a drama series. Yeah. 2015, 2016, and for the 00:12:48.659 --> 00:12:51.860 final season in 2022. So the critics at least 00:12:51.860 --> 00:12:53.940 were definitely validating this dramatic transformation. 00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:56.799 Absolutely. But here's what I find fascinating. 00:12:57.039 --> 00:12:59.740 Even while he's plumbing the depths of Jimmy 00:12:59.740 --> 00:13:01.899 McGill's tragic soul. He can't quite quit the 00:13:01.899 --> 00:13:04.779 comedy. Exactly. Right in the middle of the Saul 00:13:04.779 --> 00:13:08.169 run. 2015, he gets back together with David Cross 00:13:08.169 --> 00:13:11.149 for W. Bob and David on Netflix. All new sketch 00:13:11.149 --> 00:13:13.750 series. Yeah, he co -created it, wrote, starred, 00:13:13.889 --> 00:13:16.009 produced. It's like he needed that outlet, a 00:13:16.009 --> 00:13:18.269 palate cleanser from all the drama, maybe. Get 00:13:18.269 --> 00:13:19.990 back to the absurdity. Maintain the balance. 00:13:20.289 --> 00:13:23.309 Seems like it. And at the same time, his dramatic 00:13:23.309 --> 00:13:26.090 success was opening doors in movies, big time. 00:13:26.269 --> 00:13:28.429 Yeah, suddenly he's popping up in really respected 00:13:28.429 --> 00:13:31.409 films. Supporting roles, but in quality projects. 00:13:31.950 --> 00:13:34.169 Spectacular. Now, he did voice work in Incredibles 00:13:34.169 --> 00:13:36.679 2. Ben Bradley's Deputy in the Post showed up 00:13:36.679 --> 00:13:38.639 in Greta Gerwig's Little Women. And Nebraska, 00:13:38.919 --> 00:13:41.000 the Alexander Payne film. Yeah. That felt significant. 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:45.840 Huge. 2013, beautiful black and white film, nominated 00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:48.120 for the Palme d 'Or at Cannes. That wasn't just 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:50.639 a small part. It really cemented him as a serious 00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:53.500 actor who could hold his own in high -level independent 00:13:53.500 --> 00:13:56.519 cinema. He proved he had the dramatic chops, 00:13:56.620 --> 00:14:00.759 no question. So, okay. We've got the cult comedy 00:14:00.759 --> 00:14:04.190 writer, the prestige drama lead. You'd think 00:14:04.190 --> 00:14:06.210 maybe he'd settle into that groove, right? You 00:14:06.210 --> 00:14:09.850 would think. But nope. The next pivot is maybe 00:14:09.850 --> 00:14:13.649 the most unexpected of all. He becomes an action 00:14:13.649 --> 00:14:16.870 hero in his late 50s. It sounds completely bizarre 00:14:16.870 --> 00:14:19.490 on paper. Bob Odenkirk doing fight choreography. 00:14:19.690 --> 00:14:23.070 But then nobody comes out in 2021. And it works. 00:14:23.129 --> 00:14:25.330 He plays Hutch Mansell, the seemingly boring 00:14:25.330 --> 00:14:28.490 suburban dad who turns out to have a very particular 00:14:28.490 --> 00:14:30.769 set of skills. A very violent past, yeah. And 00:14:30.769 --> 00:14:32.700 apparently he didn't phone it in. The training 00:14:32.700 --> 00:14:34.960 was intense. Get this, two years. He trained 00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:36.580 for two years to do a lot of the stunt work and 00:14:36.580 --> 00:14:37.799 fighting himself. That's serious commitment. 00:14:38.059 --> 00:14:40.259 And audiences responded. The movie was a hit. 00:14:40.419 --> 00:14:42.200 Number one at the box office when it opened. 00:14:42.379 --> 00:14:44.500 Huge success. And remember, he produced this 00:14:44.500 --> 00:14:46.539 one too. Through his own company, he had that 00:14:46.539 --> 00:14:48.840 control. Cal Gold Pictures, right? He set that 00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:52.039 up in 2020. Signed a deal with Sony TV. Smart 00:14:52.039 --> 00:14:54.720 move for creative control long term. Definitely. 00:14:54.779 --> 00:14:57.779 And the success of... Nobody was so big, they're 00:14:57.779 --> 00:15:00.539 already doing a sequel. Nobody 2 is slated for 00:15:00.539 --> 00:15:03.320 2025. Incredible. So he's got this action franchise 00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:05.399 going, but he's still exploring other things 00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:07.460 on TV too. Yeah, he didn't just stick with the 00:15:07.460 --> 00:15:09.940 action. In 2023, he starred in Lucky Hank on 00:15:09.940 --> 00:15:13.100 AMC, based on a Richard Russo novel, Straight 00:15:13.100 --> 00:15:15.500 Man. Playing a character quite different from 00:15:15.500 --> 00:15:18.240 Houch Mansell. Totally. A kind of burnt out, 00:15:18.299 --> 00:15:21.460 neurotic English professor. Much more internalized, 00:15:21.460 --> 00:15:24.039 closer to maybe some of his earlier comedic personas, 00:15:24.200 --> 00:15:27.159 but grounded in drama. And then comes this amazing 00:15:27.159 --> 00:15:29.220 guest spot that brought everything full circle 00:15:29.220 --> 00:15:32.139 almost. The bear. Oh man, that episode. The Christmas 00:15:32.139 --> 00:15:35.659 episode. Fishes. Just chaos. And he played Uncle 00:15:35.659 --> 00:15:38.659 Lee. And he got an Emmy nomination for it. Outstanding 00:15:38.659 --> 00:15:41.519 guest actor in a comedy series. It was brilliant 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:44.000 because unlike Saul, who's loud and performative, 00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:46.820 Uncle Lee was all this simmering resentment and 00:15:46.820 --> 00:15:49.659 anxiety beneath the surface. Just fantastic acting 00:15:49.659 --> 00:15:53.389 within that insane comedic pressure cooker. It 00:15:53.389 --> 00:15:55.769 really showed his range yet again. And then just 00:15:55.769 --> 00:15:57.690 when you think, okay, what else can he possibly 00:15:57.690 --> 00:16:00.950 do? He makes his Broadway debut. In a monster 00:16:00.950 --> 00:16:04.429 of a play, no less. David Mamet's Glengarry Glen 00:16:04.429 --> 00:16:08.269 Ross. Yeah, in 2025. And not just any part. He 00:16:08.269 --> 00:16:11.210 played Shelley the Machine Levine, the desperate, 00:16:11.409 --> 00:16:14.889 washed -up salesman. It's a classic, incredibly 00:16:14.889 --> 00:16:18.379 demanding, dramatic role. Echoes of Jimmy McGill's 00:16:18.379 --> 00:16:20.860 desperation, maybe, but in a totally different 00:16:20.860 --> 00:16:23.620 theatrical context. Absolutely. And he nailed 00:16:23.620 --> 00:16:26.059 it. The reviews for his performance were stellar, 00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:28.740 even if the overall production got mixed reactions. 00:16:29.059 --> 00:16:32.080 He earned a Tony Award nomination for Best Featured 00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:35.269 Actor in a Play. Wow. a tony nomination the only 00:16:35.269 --> 00:16:37.649 nomination the show received actually which really 00:16:37.649 --> 00:16:39.649 highlights how much his performance stood out 00:16:39.649 --> 00:16:41.450 it just confirmed his status as a heavyweight 00:16:41.450 --> 00:16:44.129 dramatic actor stage or screen and throughout 00:16:44.129 --> 00:16:46.370 all these acting transformations he kept writing 00:16:46.370 --> 00:16:48.909 too never stopped he put out that book of comedy 00:16:48.909 --> 00:16:51.490 sketches and essays a load of hooey back in 2014 00:16:51.490 --> 00:16:55.149 then the memoir in 2022 comedy comedy comedy 00:16:55.149 --> 00:16:57.889 drama i mean the title says it all right perfect 00:16:57.889 --> 00:17:01.159 title And then showing yet another side, he co 00:17:01.159 --> 00:17:03.279 -wrote a children's poetry book with his daughter, 00:17:03.419 --> 00:17:06.240 Erin, called Zealot and Other Important Rhymes. 00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:09.460 Came out in 2023. Amazing. The sheer breadth 00:17:09.460 --> 00:17:13.960 of it all. Comedy, drama, action, writing, producing, 00:17:14.019 --> 00:17:17.079 Broadway, kids books. Yeah. It's just relentless 00:17:17.079 --> 00:17:19.880 creativity. So his career has been full of these 00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:22.460 incredible, sometimes jarring shifts. But in 00:17:22.460 --> 00:17:25.440 2021, life itself threw him a curveball that 00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:27.400 was far more serious. Yeah, the health scare 00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:29.599 on the set of... better call Saul. That was genuinely 00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:32.660 terrifying. He collapsed while filming in Albuquerque, 00:17:32.660 --> 00:17:35.299 July 2021. And the initial reports were kind 00:17:35.299 --> 00:17:38.660 of vague, but the reality was grim. Extremely 00:17:38.660 --> 00:17:40.799 grim. It wasn't just a small heart attack as 00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:42.539 sometimes gets reported. It was what they call 00:17:42.539 --> 00:17:44.960 a widow maker. Which means? It means a total 00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:47.220 blockage of the main artery supplying blood to 00:17:47.220 --> 00:17:50.259 the heart, the LAD. It's often fatal if not treated 00:17:50.259 --> 00:17:52.569 immediately. He'd actually been diagnosed with 00:17:52.569 --> 00:17:55.329 some plaque buildup back in 2018, but this event 00:17:55.329 --> 00:17:57.490 was catastrophic. His heart actually stopped. 00:17:57.750 --> 00:18:01.049 Completely stopped. He needed CPR onset, multiple 00:18:01.049 --> 00:18:03.730 defibrillator shocks to get his pulse back. It's 00:18:03.730 --> 00:18:06.210 hard to overstate how close he came. Wow. And 00:18:06.210 --> 00:18:08.009 the impact on the show itself could have been 00:18:08.009 --> 00:18:10.950 huge. Oh, absolutely. Peter Gold, the showrunner, 00:18:10.990 --> 00:18:14.069 said very clearly afterwards that if Odenkirk 00:18:14.069 --> 00:18:15.549 hadn't pulled through, that would have been it 00:18:15.549 --> 00:18:17.890 for Better Call Saul. They wouldn't have recast, 00:18:17.910 --> 00:18:19.430 wouldn't have tried to finish it without him. 00:18:19.529 --> 00:18:21.569 That says a lot about his importance to that 00:18:21.569 --> 00:18:24.410 entire project and the loyalty there. It really 00:18:24.410 --> 00:18:27.160 does. Incredible loyalty. Thankfully, he made 00:18:27.160 --> 00:18:29.880 a remarkable recovery and was back on set by 00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:33.119 September to finish the final season. Just amazing 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:36.420 resilience. Switching gears a bit, his family 00:18:36.420 --> 00:18:38.920 life seems pretty grounded amidst all the career 00:18:38.920 --> 00:18:43.119 chaos. Married Naomi Yelmtoff in 97. Right. And 00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:45.019 she's in the business, too. She was an executive 00:18:45.019 --> 00:18:47.700 producer on W. Bob and David. They have two kids 00:18:47.700 --> 00:18:50.240 together. And his brother, Bill Odenkirk, is 00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:53.079 also a successful comedy writer. The Simpsons, 00:18:53.180 --> 00:18:55.700 Futurama. It's definitely a talented family. 00:18:55.880 --> 00:18:57.700 Runs in the blood, apparently, which actually 00:18:57.700 --> 00:18:59.839 leads us to maybe the most surprising discovery 00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:01.839 about his background. Oh, yeah, the Finding Your 00:19:01.839 --> 00:19:04.740 Roots episode. This was wild. Totally unexpected. 00:19:05.220 --> 00:19:08.440 So the guy who hated suburban Naperville and 00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:11.319 defined himself through edgy, anti -establishment 00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:15.460 comedy, turns out he has royal blood. Seriously. 00:19:15.640 --> 00:19:19.160 Royal! Well, descended from royalty, he learned 00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:22.200 he's related, through an illegitimate son, to 00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:25.460 Frederick Charles, who was the Duke of Schleswig 00:19:25.460 --> 00:19:28.700 -Holstein -Sonderburg plan back in the day. Okay, 00:19:28.759 --> 00:19:30.940 so what does that actually mean in terms of, 00:19:30.940 --> 00:19:34.190 like... current royal. Yet this. It makes him 00:19:34.190 --> 00:19:37.789 an 11th cousin to King Charles III. No way. Bob 00:19:37.789 --> 00:19:39.890 Odenkirk and King Charles are cousins. That's 00:19:39.890 --> 00:19:42.650 hilarious. Isn't it? The irony is just perfect. 00:19:42.710 --> 00:19:44.970 The ultimate outsider comedian discovers this 00:19:44.970 --> 00:19:47.569 aristocratic connection. Amazing. And wasn't 00:19:47.569 --> 00:19:49.410 there some other interesting ancestor? Like a 00:19:49.410 --> 00:19:52.029 soldier. Yeah. Another surprise. He had an ancestor 00:19:52.029 --> 00:19:54.289 named Jean -Jacques Fricker who fought for Napoleon. 00:19:54.490 --> 00:19:56.710 A French soldier at the Battle of Aspern -Essling 00:19:56.710 --> 00:19:58.549 during the Napoleonic Wars. Just adds another 00:19:58.549 --> 00:20:00.630 layer of unexpected history to the guy. From 00:20:00.630 --> 00:20:03.589 neighbor. to Napoleonic battles and German Dukes. 00:20:03.589 --> 00:20:06.049 Quite a family tree. You could say that. And 00:20:06.049 --> 00:20:08.009 finally, capping off this whole incredible journey, 00:20:08.170 --> 00:20:10.710 he got his star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. 00:20:10.829 --> 00:20:13.880 Well deserved. When was that? April 18th, 2022. 00:20:14.220 --> 00:20:16.339 They timed it perfectly for the premiere date 00:20:16.339 --> 00:20:18.799 of the final season of Better Call Saul. Nice 00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:21.559 touch. And where is it located? Even better touch. 00:20:21.740 --> 00:20:23.980 It's right next to Bryan Cranston's star. Ah, 00:20:24.119 --> 00:20:27.380 perfect. Walt and Saul side by side on Hollywood 00:20:27.380 --> 00:20:29.960 Boulevard. That feels right. Hashtag tag outro. 00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:34.039 So when you step back and look at the whole picture, 00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:37.589 it's kind of staggering, isn't it? From writing 00:20:37.589 --> 00:20:40.029 Matt Foley at Second City, feeling unsure at 00:20:40.029 --> 00:20:43.349 SNL, creating the cult chaos of Mr. Show. Through 00:20:43.349 --> 00:20:46.190 the directing struggles, then the complete reinvention 00:20:46.190 --> 00:20:48.529 as Saul Goodman, becoming this acclaimed dramatic 00:20:48.529 --> 00:20:51.490 actor. Then pivoting again to become a bona fide 00:20:51.490 --> 00:20:54.309 action star in his late 50s, getting a Tony nomination 00:20:54.309 --> 00:20:58.029 on Broadway. It's a career defined. By refusing 00:20:58.029 --> 00:21:00.289 to be pinned down. By perseverance, sure, but 00:21:00.289 --> 00:21:02.269 also by this incredible adaptability. He just 00:21:02.269 --> 00:21:04.230 never settled. Which brings us to our final thought 00:21:04.230 --> 00:21:06.569 for you, the listener. After hitting these peaks, 00:21:06.750 --> 00:21:09.970 prestige drama, action stardom, Broadway acclaim, 00:21:09.970 --> 00:21:12.450 what's the next unexpected turn for Bob Odenkirk? 00:21:12.650 --> 00:21:15.789 You might think maybe a quiet indie drama. Or 00:21:15.789 --> 00:21:18.930 producing more. Nope. Get ready to this. His 00:21:18.930 --> 00:21:21.970 next big starring role. is playing Johnny in 00:21:21.970 --> 00:21:24.269 the Room Returns. Yes, you heard that right. 00:21:24.390 --> 00:21:27.049 A reportedly shot -for -shot remake of Tommy 00:21:27.049 --> 00:21:30.450 Wiseau's legendary 2003 disaster piece, The Room. 00:21:30.670 --> 00:21:33.329 I mean, it's just perfect, isn't it? After scaling 00:21:33.329 --> 00:21:35.349 the heights of serious artistic achievement, 00:21:35.589 --> 00:21:37.930 he dives right back into the glorious, absurd 00:21:37.930 --> 00:21:40.950 muck of cult infamy. It proves that the Mr. Show 00:21:40.950 --> 00:21:43.009 spirit, that love for the brilliantly bizarre 00:21:43.009 --> 00:21:46.329 and the embrace of failure as art, that's still 00:21:46.329 --> 00:21:48.609 fundamentally who he is as a performer and creator. 00:21:48.769 --> 00:21:51.029 He just keeps defying categorization, keeps surprising 00:21:51.029 --> 00:21:54.009 us. An incredible arc and probably far from over. 00:21:54.150 --> 00:21:56.670 Absolutely. Well, that's our deep dive on Bob 00:21:56.670 --> 00:21:58.150 Odenkirk. Thanks for joining us. We'll catch 00:21:58.150 --> 00:21:58.650 you next time.