Welcome to the deep dive. We're here to basically
take all that source material you've provided
and really boil it down into the quickest, most,
well, fascinating path to knowing what's what.
Exactly. Cutting right to the chase. And today
we are tackling a, let's call it, a high velocity
maximalist journey ourselves. We're diving into
the careers, the minds of Daniel Kwan and Daniel
Scheiner. Ah, yes. The Daniels. Everyone knows
them now. Universally known, yeah. And these
two, I mean, they've really carved out this incredible
path, haven't they? From, you know, indie YouTube
stuff, viral hits, messing around with music
videos. Right, the short form experiments. All
the way to becoming these, like, architects of
a whole new style of absurdist cinema. And of
course, that just culminated in that absolutely
historic sweep at the Academy Awards. It's an
amazing trajectory. So our mission today is pretty
clear, quickly, but really thoroughly unpack
that whole journey for you. We're not just going
to list awards, though. We want to trace the
specific steps, those surprising, you know, artistic
decisions and also the business side of things
that really define their huge impact. They're
pushing boundaries. Definitely pushing boundaries.
And maybe we should start with the basics, the
foundation, just who are they? Good point. You've
got Daniel Kwan, born 1988, Westboro, Massachusetts.
And then Daniel Scheiner, born just a year earlier,
1987, down in Birmingham, Alabama. So East Coast
meets the South, Massachusetts and Alabama. Pretty
different backgrounds, you'd think? You would.
And the place where these two seemingly quite
different paths converged, Emerson College in
Boston. Right. Both studied film there. Scheiner
graduated in 09, Kwan in 2010. And that's really
where their whole collective identity starts,
right? going back to maybe 2007, even, while
they were still there, it's always been about
this collaboration. Writing, directing, producing.
Yeah, they're like this two -headed creative
force. It really is that East meets South meets,
well, meets weird. Yeah, meets weird is a good
way to put it. And if you really want to get
the complexity, the visual density, the sheer
audacity, really, of their big movies. Everything.
Everywhere. Exactly. You absolutely have to spend
some time looking at their music video work first.
That was their lab. Their laboratory, yeah. Totally.
That short form, often low budget world, is where
they just hammered out their whole visual style.
Kinetic, physically bizarre sometimes. Often
physically bizarre. Right. And always high concept,
but done really efficiently, really fast. They
started being active around 2007, but the music
video focus really kicked in around 2011. And
that period is so key, isn't it? Because it taught
them how to get the biggest bang for their buck,
essentially. Maximize effect, minimize budget.
Which is totally central to that maximalist thing
they do now. They didn't have money for huge
CGI or massive sets back then. So it was all
practical effects, super quick editing and just
getting these really committed, sometimes way
over the top physical performances. And that
Emerson connection, it wasn't just about the
two of them meeting. It immediately started building
their creative circle. Oh right, you mentioned
Sunita Mani earlier. Exactly. Crucially, they
were at Emerson with her. And this is important
context because you see these early relationships
forming like the backbone of their later professional
work. So Manny stars with Kwan later on. In their
most famous, most viral music video. Yeah, which
obviously we have to talk about turned down for
what? DJ Snake, Lil Jon, 2013? Oh yeah, that
video is just... It's pure Daniels, undiluted.
If you haven't seen it, you need to. It's like
a master class in controlled chaos, right? Absurdist
premise cranked to 11. And Quan himself is starring
in it, alongside Manny. They're doing this completely
bizarre, sexually charged, but also incredibly
destructive floor -humping dance -off. Yeah,
crashing through walls, breaking everything.
It's nuts. All set to that driving beat. And
that specific video got them one of their two
Grammy nominations. Best short form music video.
Which is incredible recognition. Think about
it. Kwan, the co -director, is literally performing
this ridiculous high -energy physical comedy
that basically defines their whole vibe. Right.
Getting Grammy nods validates that, yeah, this
unique way of turning music into visual chaos,
it works. It resonates globally. It absolutely
went viral way before there were big feature
film names. But that wasn't their first Grammy
nomination, was it? No, their first nod was actually
the year before 2013. ceremony for work done
in 2012. It was for Foster the People's Houdini.
OK. So they were getting high level recognition
pretty early on. Definitely. But Turn Down for
What was the one that really cemented the reputation
for just unapologetic weirdness. And it wasn't
just those big hits. They worked with other pretty
high profile respected bands too. Yeah. Showed
some versatility. They did videos for The Shins,
Tenacious D. Rock comedy legends. Right. And
Manchester Orchestra, they did Simple Math, and
later on, The Alien. So this whole period, it
wasn't just fun and games. It was like this intense,
practical training ground. Absolutely. A visual
effects boot camp, almost. Yeah. Developing techniques
on the fly that they'd later blow up for the
multiverse. And there's another fascinating piece
here, something about Daniel Kwan specifically.
It says a lot about his values, I think. You
mean the WDMV thing. Exactly. We Direct Music
Videos, he co -founded that group in 2018. Yeah,
that's a real... telling detail isn't it? It
gives you another layer. Their whole stated goal
is about promoting sustainable directorial labor
practices in the music video industry. So what
does that mean practically for people listening?
Well you gotta understand the music video world
can be pretty brutal. It's often low budget,
super chaotic schedules. Directors are asked
to do so much work under insane deadlines. Right
and maybe not get paid properly or lose rights
to their work. All of that. So Kron This filmmaker
known for creating visual chaos is actually out
there fighting for like Fairness and stability
behind the camera maximum fairness for maximum
chaos, huh? Kind of it shows he wasn't just about
making the coolest video. He was trying to make
the whole system work better for creators That
sincerity mixed with the absurdity That's a really
interesting tension. Yeah, it really sets the
stage for what comes next doesn't it speaking
of what comes next that big leap from you know,
three -minute videos to 90 -minute movies. That
arrived in 2016. Swiss Army Man. Yeah, that was
the moment. They're a full -on transition to
features. And if you had to slap a genre label
on it, maximalist, absurdist comedy drama seems
about right. It's as good as any, I guess. You
really can't talk about Swiss Army Man without
hitting the premise head -on. Yeah. Because it,
uh, it definitely split audiences. Right. Paul
Danno plays a guy stranded on an island suicidal,
and he finds... Well, he finds Daniel Radcliffe
playing a corpse, a very flatulent multi -purpose
corpse, the human Swiss army knife of the title.
Exactly. And the maybe the genius of it or the
madness, depending on your view, is that they
took this really juvenile kind of gross premise.
I mean, a movie built on fart jokes and used
it to talk about really profound things, loneliness,
shame. male intimacy in a really unconventional
way. It's that high absurdity again, but this
time it feels like it's masking something deeply
emotional. Right. And that's where the reception
gets interesting. Critics, for the most part,
really loved it. They saw the originality. But
audiences... Polarized is putting it mildly.
Weren't there reports of people walking out of
the Sundance prepared? Oh yeah, famous walkouts.
Just too weird for some. But... And this is key,
the industry noticed. They won the directing
award at Sundance that year, 2016. Dramatic category.
That Sundance win is huge, though. It's like
the industry saying, OK, yeah, this is out there,
really out there. But the talent, undeniable.
Exactly. It validated their whole approach, chasing
that wild concept all the way, proving they could
keep that chaotic energy going for a full feature.
Now, before they hit the absolute stratosphere
with everything everywhere, they were also doing
work at TV, right? Cutting their teeth there,
too. Yeah. That's a pretty common path. Good
practice managing projects, casing, just on a
smaller screen. They share directing credits
on a few things. Some adult swim shows like NTSF,
SDSUV, and Children's Hospital. Right. And later
on, Awkwafina is Nora from Queens. They did the
Grandma Unchill episode. Mm -hmm. But what's
also interesting here is you see them starting
to define their individual styles a bit too outside
of the partnership. Oh, okay. So solo work. Yeah,
some specialized solo directing credits that
kind of hint at their different sensibilities.
Like what? Well, Daniel Kwan directed an episode
of Legion, you know, the FX show, Chapter 23.
Ah, that makes perfect sense. Legion is all about
unreliable reality. Crazy visuals. Perfect playground
for him. Exactly. Practicing that reality -bending
stuff. A great warm -up for multiverse hopping,
you could say. And Shiner. Shiner directed an
episode of that dark comedy on becoming a god
in central Florida. The episode was called Many
Masters. Okay, yeah. That feels more like his
vibe, too. Darker, maybe more grounded comedy.
I think so. often a bit more cynical, perhaps.
Which leads us nicely into his solo feature film.
Right, he directed his own movie separately.
Yeah, in 2019. The Death of Dick Long. It often
gets overlooked because, well, everything everywhere
was such a supernova. Understandable. What was
it like? It's pure shiner, I'd say. Black comedy
drama. It also premiered at Sundance 2019. Got
good reviews for being this really specific kind
of small town, dark, southern humor. And he was
really involved in it, wasn't he? More than just
directing. Oh, yeah. He acted in it. He played
Dick Long. Yeah. And even performed a song for
the soundtrack. It's been a while. Wow. OK, so
really diving in. Totally immersed. And the tone,
it's much more grounded, more regional than the
stuff they do together. It feels very like Southern
Gothic black comedy. So it suggests his personal
style might lean a bit differently when he's
on his own? I think it does. Towards character
-driven, maybe slightly macabre stories, rooted
in that Alabama background he knows so well.
Still weird, but a different flavor of weird.
Interesting. And just before they hit the jackpot,
there was one project that didn't happen right,
a little speed bump. Ah, yeah, the Kurt Vonnegut
adaptation. Cat's Cradle. They were attached
to direct a TV version developed by Noah Hawley
who did Fargo. That sounds amazing. What happened?
Well the source material just says it was not
picked up. Hollywood being Hollywood I guess.
Projects fall through even for super talented
people. Exactly. But maybe it was fate clearing
the paths for them to pivot towards Well towards
everything everywhere and what a pivot it was
everything everywhere all at once or EEA Oh as
everyone calls it Yeah, the film that didn't
just change their careers kind of changed the
landscape for indie film, didn't it? It really
feels like it did so this whole thing started
back in 2017 Yeah, that's when it was announced
the Daniels writing directing producing alongside
their regular partner Jonathan Wang And significantly,
the Russo Brothers were involved as executive
producers. OK, the Russo Brothers connection
is big. They were fresh off like peak Marvel
success. Exactly. Having them on board lent this
very indie, very high concept project some serious
institutional weight. And then fast forward to
March 2022, it gets released and it just takes
off. Immediately. Widespread critical acclaim
and box office success. barely covers it. Yeah,
let's put some specifics on that success. It
became A24's highest -grossing film ever. Ever.
It was huge for A24 and proved something really
important. Audiences were absolutely starved
for originality, especially originality mixed
with genuine heart. It wasn't just a critic starling.
It was a real global hit. Definitely. And propelled
by that incredible cast. Michelle Yeoh, obviously
just phenomenal. But also Stephanie Su, Ki Hui
Kwan's amazing comeback. James Hong, Jamie Lee
Curtis. Legends and rising stars just going all
in. All in on this story about, you know, laundromat
owner, her taxes, and saving the multiverse.
It sounds ridiculous when you say it like that.
It does. But the history part really kicks in
when you look at the awards. The sheer scale
of the recognition. 11 Oscar nominations, one
seven. That's not just winning, that's dominating.
Total domination. And for the Daniels themselves,
they got the big three. Best picture as producers,
best director, and best original screenplay.
A complete sweep of the top categories for them.
But it went way beyond the Oscars, didn't it?
Oh, absolutely. This is where we get to that
Triple Crown thing with the guilds. They won
the DGA award for directing. Directors Guild.
The PGA for producing. The Dales. And the WGA
for the screenplay. Writers Guild. OK, so why
is winning all three of those guild awards such
a big deal? For the listener, what does that
signify? It's huge, because those awards are
voted on by their peers. Directors voting for
directors, writers for writers, producers for
producers. Ah, okay. So it's not just critics
or Academy members. It's the actual professionals
in those fields saying this was the best work
of the year. Precisely. It shows this incredible
consensus within the industry across all the
major crafts. It validates their achievement
on a whole different level than just, you know,
critical claim. And that level of validation
leads to something pretty mind -blowing. Yeah,
this is the jaw -dropper. I do. In the math,
crunch the numbers from all the awards groups.
All the critics groups, festivals, guilds. Everything.
Everything. And they calculated that everything
everywhere all at once actually surpassed The
Lord of the Rings, The Return of the King. Peter
Jackson's epic from 2003. As the most awarded
film of all time. Okay, I have to pause on that.
That is... That's staggering. A film that felt
so indie, so personal, driven by practical effects
mostly. I'm a laundromat owner. Officially got
more awards than this massive decade -defining
fantasy blockbuster built on huge budgets and
armies. It's wild, isn't it? You know, you have
to be careful with most awarded metrics. They
aggregate a lot of different groups. But still,
the sheer breadth of wins is undeniable. It shows
this near -universal agreement across the entire
global film world. Right. It wasn't just the
big awards. It was almost everyone recognizing
it. Exactly. They cleaned up at the Critics'
Choice Awards, swept the Independent Spirit Awards.
So mainstream critics and the indie scene were
totally aligned. And it even won in genre categories
that often ignored the big prestige pictures.
Yeah, that's another sign of how you It won the
Nebula Award, the Ray Bradbury Award, specifically
for Outstanding Dramatic Presentation. That's
a major science fiction award. Recognizing its
sci -fi core. And it also won the Saturn Award
for Best Fantasy Film. Getting that kind of cross
-genre validation simultaneously. Super rare.
It speaks to how the film just worked on so many
different levels. Now, amidst all this success,
there's a really important personal connection
here for Daniel Kwan, isn't there? Something
that came out of making the film itself. Yes,
absolutely. The source material is clear on this.
He was actually diagnosed with Attention Deficit
Hyperactivity Disorder, ADHD, after he started
researching the condition while writing and developing
everything everywhere. Wow. Okay. That adds a
whole new layer. That reframes the entire film
almost. It goes from being just high -concept
sci -fi to something deeply personal. Completely.
You can suddenly see the film's structure, its
style, as maybe mirroring the cognitive experience
of ADHD. How so? Like, the constant jumping between
universes. Yeah, the rapid fire cuts, the feeling
of being overwhelmed by sensory information,
Evelyn's difficulty focusing on just one reality.
And maybe that tendency to hyper -focus on something
mundane, like the tax receipts, even when the
whole universe is collapsing. Exactly. That whole
maximalist kinetic style, which some people found,
you know, maybe too much, too overwhelming. you
can read it as a literal representation of how
his mind works. So the film's core message about
finding meaning and connection, even when everything
feels chaotic and overwhelming. It gains this
incredible sincerity because... it's rooted in
his own self -discovery during the process. Putting
that level of personal vulnerability into a huge
multiverse action comedy, that's probably why
it hit so hard for so many people. Yeah, that
makes a lot of sense. OK, so they achieved this
absolutely historic success. Critical acclaim,
box office records, Oscars, everything. The next
question from Hollywood has to be, OK, how do
we get in business with these guys? Right. How
do we institutionalize the Daniels? And the answer
came pretty quickly in 2022. Big commitments,
big deals. What kind of deals are we talking
about? Well, two major ones. First, they signed
a first look TV deal with A24. Makes sense. Sticking
with the studio that backed EEAO. Right. Keep
developing maybe weirder prestige TV in that
flexible indie -friendly environment. But then,
the other big one. An exclusive five -year film
deal with Universal Pictures. Ah, Universal.
Okay, that's major studio backing. Guaranteed
budgets, wide distribution. Exactly. It's kind
of a brilliant strategy really. A two -front
approach. Yeah. They keep their connection to
the indie world with A24 for TV, but they get
the security and scale of Universal for their
big movie ideas. So they're set up to basically
do whatever they want, it seems. Pretty much.
And they haven't slowed down on the directing
front either, even while planning these bigger
projects. They jumped right into maybe the biggest
sandbox there is. Don't tell me. Star Wars. Yep.
Announced March 2023, the Daniels directed one
episode of the upcoming Disney Plus series, Star
Wars. Skeleton Crew. Should be out in 2024. Wow.
OK, that's a test, isn't it? Can their very specific,
often chaotic, maximalist style fit inside the,
let's say, very established aesthetic of Star
Wars? It's a fascinating question. How do they
adapt their visual language for Lucasfilm? I'll
have to see. Definitely something to watch. Now,
what about their next original feature film,
the one under that big Universal deal? Ah, well,
here's where we get that interesting little anecdote.
a glimpse into the Hollywood hierarchy. Go on.
Their next big movie, their follow -up to EEAO,
was scheduled for a prime release date, June
12th, 2026, coveted summer slot. Okay, sounds
great. But that date got pushed, bumped back
to an unspecified time later. Why? Because Universal
confirmed that a brand new film by Steven Spielberg
would be taking that June 2026 slot. No way,
Spielberg? Yep, so the directors of the most
awarded film ever still had to step aside for,
well, Spielberg, the ultimate Hollywood legend.
That's incredible. It really shows that even
with all their success, all the awards, the old
guard, the absolute icon still hold sway over
that prime real estate on the calendar. It's
a perfect illustration of the pecking order,
right? Even record breaking success doesn't instantly
put you at the very top of the pyramid. A reality
check? Maybe. But their new power isn't just
about directing their own stuff. They're using
their clout as producers now too, right? Absolutely.
Building their own little ecosystem. There was
a big announcement in June 2025 that Daniels
are producing a high -concept comedy for Universal.
Okay. And who's involved with that? Get this.
It's set to be written and possibly directed
by Paul Dano. Paul Dano, their star from Swiss
Army Man. Exactly. It's like a creative lineage.
They're using their new power to give a major
feature opportunity to someone who is key to
their own breakthrough. That's fantastic. It
really paints them not just as talented directors,
but as like community builders. Yeah. Paying
it forward. Definitely seems that way. And you
see broader recognition reflecting this view
of them as, you know, important figures shaping
the future. They were on the Time 100 Next List
in 2022. Recognizing rising leaders. Right. And
their alma mater, Emerson, gave them the EVVY
Alumni Award of Distinction in 2023. So yeah,
they're seen as major players now for the long
haul. It's easy to just focus on the films, the
weirdness, the awards, but understanding who
they are personally, where they come from, feels
pretty crucial to understanding their work. Totally
agree. That synthesis of their different backgrounds
is key to their unique voice. So let's revisit
that. Daniel Kwan, born in Massachusetts. His
background is multicultural, right? Yeah, his
mother is Taiwanese. His father is from Hong
Kong. That brings up sort of global perspective,
you might say. And personally, he's married to
Kirsten Lepore, who's also a filmmaker and animator.
They got married in 2016, have one son. OK. And
then Daniel Scheinert, born and raised in Birmingham,
Alabama. Deep South Roots, son of Becky and Ken
Scheinert. Went to local schools, Oak Mountain
Elementary and Middle. But interestingly, he
was also in this advanced magnet program, the
Jefferson County International Baccalaureate
School. Ah, so maybe a more internationally focused
education within that southern context. Seems
like it. And that combination is just fascinating,
isn't it? You get Kwan's East Coast multicultural,
maybe more analytical perspective. Meeting Scheinert's
grounded, perhaps darker southern sensibility,
but one that also had this rigorous academic
international focus. And they meet at Emerson.
And that friction, that blend. fuels their style.
It's maybe why their films can feel both intellectually
complex and really specific in their commentary
on American culture. It's like they synthesize
two different Americas into something. universally
strange. Universally strange. I like that. And
just before we wrap up, it's worth quickly mentioning
the sheer volume of their work, especially the
short films. This wasn't overnight success. Right,
right. They were constantly working, experimenting.
Yeah. The features are iconic now. Swiss Army
Man, 2016, Everything Everywhere, 2022, plus
Scheiner's Solo, The Death of Dick Long, 2019.
But look at the shorts. Puppets way back in 2010,
that interactive thing, Possibility in 2014,
even doing a segment for that Omnibo project
in 2020. They were constantly honing their craft.
Practicing the language of weirdness. Relentlessly.
Using every format available to figure stuff
out. Hashtag tag outro. OK, so let's recap this
deep dive. We started with two film students,
seemingly from different worlds, meeting at Emerson.
Traced their path through those groundbreaking
Grammy nominated music videos where they basically
invented their DIY high concept style. Then the
leap to features with the wonderfully weird Sundance
winning Swiss army man. divisive but acclaimed.
And landed of course on the absolute phenomenon
that was everything everywhere all at once. the
record -breaking awards, the cultural impact.
The final picture that emerges is this duo who
took independent, challenging, frankly weird
filmmaking and somehow turned it into massive
mainstream success. And doing it with this interesting
blend of, you know, deep artistic commitment,
but also advocacy for fair labor practices. Yeah.
And finding huge success by tapping into something
incredibly personal, like Kwan's ADHD experience.
And now... They're armed with these major deals.
A24 for TV, Universal for film. They have the
resources, the backing, the critical acclaim.
Unprecedented creative freedom, really. Which
brings us to that final provocative thought for
you, the listener, to chew on. Right. The Daniels,
directors of the most awarded film ever, had
their next movie bumped for Steven Spielberg.
A reminder of the hierarchy, yeah. But given
that they've proven they can blend the deeply
personal with the utterly spectacular. The mundane
with the multiverse? And now they have serious
institutional money and validation behind them.
What's next? What new ground will this duo define
by embracing the strange, committed to fairness,
choose to explore now? What does it even mean
for the future of movies that this kind of wonderfully
weird, high concept vision now has the full backing
of a major studio like Universal? They've broken
pretty much all the rules and won all the prizes.
The only question left is... What incredibly
ambitious, deeply personal, and probably wonderfully
bizarre universe are they going to build for
us next? A beautiful absurdity to ponder indeed.
Thanks for joining us on the Deep Dive. We'll
catch you next time.