WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.120 Welcome to the deep dive. Today we're tackling, 00:00:03.160 --> 00:00:05.740 well, a really ambitious subject. We're diving 00:00:05.740 --> 00:00:09.779 into the life, the career, the whole philosophy, 00:00:09.820 --> 00:00:13.919 really, of a musician defined by, well, what 00:00:13.919 --> 00:00:17.379 seems like impossible duality. Our focus is the 00:00:17.379 --> 00:00:19.940 rhythmic powerhouse behind one of the biggest 00:00:19.940 --> 00:00:22.969 bands on the planet. The bassist known fully 00:00:22.969 --> 00:00:26.129 as Roberto Agostin, Miguel Santiago, Samuel Trujillo 00:00:26.129 --> 00:00:29.250 Veracruz. And just that name itself, you know, 00:00:29.269 --> 00:00:32.109 it speaks volumes about his heritage, Mexican, 00:00:32.170 --> 00:00:34.469 Native American. It hints at the complexity we're 00:00:34.469 --> 00:00:36.329 getting into. Definitely. Because if you look 00:00:36.329 --> 00:00:39.310 at his journey, you, the listener, have to somehow 00:00:39.310 --> 00:00:41.729 reconcile these incredibly different musical 00:00:41.729 --> 00:00:44.570 worlds. We're talking like Jaco Pistorius level 00:00:44.570 --> 00:00:47.630 jazz fusion, slamming into intense crossover 00:00:47.630 --> 00:00:50.289 thrash funk metal, and then landing squarely 00:00:50.289 --> 00:00:52.890 in, well, Metallica. Exactly. And that's our 00:00:52.890 --> 00:00:54.929 mission today. Not just how we made those shifts, 00:00:55.009 --> 00:00:56.869 but how we actually synthesize them. How does 00:00:56.869 --> 00:00:59.229 the guy who seriously studied jazz, aiming to 00:00:59.229 --> 00:01:02.630 be a studio musician, end up anchoring the massive 00:01:02.630 --> 00:01:05.950 downpicked riffs of Metallica for, what, two 00:01:05.950 --> 00:01:08.569 decades now? It's a fascinating question. It 00:01:08.569 --> 00:01:10.849 suggests he's not just, you know, a heavy metal 00:01:10.849 --> 00:01:14.870 bassist. He's more like... a musician applying 00:01:14.870 --> 00:01:17.290 this incredibly deep understanding of rhythm 00:01:17.290 --> 00:01:20.090 to heavy music. That's the key distinction, I 00:01:20.090 --> 00:01:21.530 think. We're not just looking at him filling 00:01:21.530 --> 00:01:24.329 a role. No, no. He's a synthesis artist. Someone 00:01:24.329 --> 00:01:26.890 deliberately merging different styles to create 00:01:26.890 --> 00:01:29.890 something new. And understanding his past, those 00:01:29.890 --> 00:01:33.069 early influences, is absolutely crucial to getting 00:01:33.069 --> 00:01:34.849 his current approach. Okay, let's dig into that 00:01:34.849 --> 00:01:37.790 foundation. Roberto was born in Santa Monica, 00:01:37.790 --> 00:01:41.650 California, October 23rd, 1964. Right. Grew up 00:01:41.650 --> 00:01:44.040 nearby in Culver City. His dad was a high school 00:01:44.040 --> 00:01:46.060 teacher there, so, you know, Southern California 00:01:46.060 --> 00:01:49.340 roots. But the music in the house, that wasn't 00:01:49.340 --> 00:01:51.480 your typical future metalhead soundtrack. No, 00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:53.780 not at all. And what's really key here, according 00:01:53.780 --> 00:01:56.760 to the sources, is his mother's influence, a 00:01:56.760 --> 00:02:00.680 deep, profound love for soul music. We're talking 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:03.739 Marvin Gaye, James Brown, Sly and the Family 00:02:03.739 --> 00:02:06.180 Stone. Just think about that foundation, the 00:02:06.180 --> 00:02:08.919 rhythm, the syncopation, the groove. Yeah, that's 00:02:08.919 --> 00:02:11.180 a master class right there. Exactly, it gives 00:02:11.180 --> 00:02:13.639 him that sense of pocket, that feel that a lot 00:02:13.639 --> 00:02:16.669 of metal bassists just... Well, they don't always 00:02:16.669 --> 00:02:18.789 have it in the same way. But at the same time, 00:02:18.830 --> 00:02:20.830 growing up then, he's also soaking up the heavy 00:02:20.830 --> 00:02:22.930 stuff, right? Playing in those backyard party 00:02:22.930 --> 00:02:24.889 bands. Right, learning the essentials. Black 00:02:24.889 --> 00:02:28.349 Sabbath, Ozzy, Rush, Led Zeppelin. So he's balancing 00:02:28.349 --> 00:02:31.930 that funk and soul feel with the power, the low 00:02:31.930 --> 00:02:34.610 end weight of early metal. It's quite a mix already. 00:02:34.789 --> 00:02:37.650 It is. But then came the real game changer. The 00:02:37.650 --> 00:02:40.569 moment that seems to have completely redefined 00:02:40.569 --> 00:02:44.930 the bass for him. Jaco Pistorius. Trujillo's 00:02:44.930 --> 00:02:47.610 clear Jaco was his hero, not just technically, 00:02:47.810 --> 00:02:50.330 but like a total artistic mind shift. OK, hold 00:02:50.330 --> 00:02:53.569 on. The comparison he makes. He said hearing 00:02:53.569 --> 00:02:55.610 Pistorius was like hearing Eddie Van Halen's 00:02:55.610 --> 00:02:58.050 eruption for the first time. Just huge. Massive. 00:02:58.129 --> 00:03:00.729 He's putting a bassist's innovative work on the 00:03:00.729 --> 00:03:03.449 same level as the moment that basically rewrote 00:03:03.449 --> 00:03:05.729 rock guitar. It tells you he saw the bass as 00:03:05.729 --> 00:03:09.330 a lead voice, a virtuoso instrument capable of 00:03:09.330 --> 00:03:12.319 driving everything, not just holding down the 00:03:12.319 --> 00:03:14.500 root note. A completely different philosophy. 00:03:14.780 --> 00:03:17.719 Totally. And it wasn't just the chops. Trujillo's 00:03:17.719 --> 00:03:20.300 description of Jaco is so telling. He said, he 00:03:20.300 --> 00:03:23.340 was funk, he was rock, he was soul, and his whole 00:03:23.340 --> 00:03:27.039 attitude was punk. Wow. That sums up the versatility, 00:03:27.219 --> 00:03:29.340 doesn't it? And that sort of aggressive edge. 00:03:29.599 --> 00:03:31.819 Exactly. That's the spirit Trujillo kind of absorbed. 00:03:31.960 --> 00:03:34.500 Seeing the bass as this powerful, almost rebellious 00:03:34.500 --> 00:03:36.500 tool. And he backed it up with serious study. 00:03:36.780 --> 00:03:39.639 At 19, he actually went to jazz school. Yeah, 00:03:39.860 --> 00:03:42.300 with the goal of becoming a studio musician. 00:03:43.020 --> 00:03:45.280 Mastering the craft, the theory, the technique 00:03:45.280 --> 00:03:47.960 for total versatility. But even while he's deep 00:03:47.960 --> 00:03:51.020 in jazz fusion theory, he never lost that love 00:03:51.020 --> 00:03:52.759 for rock and metal. It's like he was building 00:03:52.759 --> 00:03:55.539 this incredibly sophisticated toolkit, knowing 00:03:55.539 --> 00:03:58.180 he'd eventually use it to tear down stadium walls. 00:03:58.460 --> 00:04:01.259 That jazz school background really explains his 00:04:01.259 --> 00:04:03.740 fingerstyle technique, his understanding of harmony, 00:04:04.060 --> 00:04:07.099 chords, complex fills. He got the highest level 00:04:07.099 --> 00:04:09.400 of musical knowledge before diving into the heavy 00:04:09.400 --> 00:04:12.280 stuff. Smart move. That sophisticated toolkit 00:04:12.280 --> 00:04:14.199 found a perfect outlet pretty quickly, didn't 00:04:14.199 --> 00:04:17.600 it? Late 80s crossover thrash. Yeah, which itself 00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:21.220 was a hybrid punk energy. metal skills, but often 00:04:21.220 --> 00:04:23.439 needing more funk, more groove than traditional 00:04:23.439 --> 00:04:26.220 thrash. Which leads us straight to Suicidal Tendencies, 00:04:26.420 --> 00:04:29.120 his first major professional gig, really. Yeah. 00:04:29.480 --> 00:04:33.139 Roughly 89 to 95. Right. He replaced Bob Heathcote. 00:04:33.379 --> 00:04:35.459 And there's that little trivia nugget he was 00:04:35.459 --> 00:04:38.279 initially billed as stymie on that 89 record, 00:04:38.500 --> 00:04:40.779 controlled by hatred feel like shit. Deja vu. 00:04:41.019 --> 00:04:44.300 Huh. Stymie. OK. And his work with them during 00:04:44.300 --> 00:04:46.199 that time is pretty defining for that genre, 00:04:46.279 --> 00:04:48.759 right? Oh, yeah. Seminal albums, Lights .Camera 00:04:48.759 --> 00:04:51.500 .Revolution in 90, The Art of Rebellion in 92, 00:04:51.819 --> 00:04:54.279 Suicidal for Life in 94. These records really 00:04:54.279 --> 00:04:56.079 expanded their sound, and he was right there 00:04:56.079 --> 00:04:58.959 applying that high -level technique to really 00:04:58.959 --> 00:05:01.339 raw, aggressive music. But he wasn't just doing 00:05:01.339 --> 00:05:03.100 suicidal. This is where the synthesis thing really 00:05:03.100 --> 00:05:05.180 kicks in. Exactly. He had this major side project 00:05:05.180 --> 00:05:07.199 going at the same time, infectious grooves. OK. 00:05:07.259 --> 00:05:09.620 That let him fully unleash the funk, the jazz, 00:05:09.800 --> 00:05:11.920 the slap bass. The supergroup, yeah. with Mike 00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:14.699 Neer again. Infectious Grooves felt like, well, 00:05:14.959 --> 00:05:17.660 like the gloves were off. Totally. If suicidal 00:05:17.660 --> 00:05:20.439 was punk metal fusion, Infectious Grooves was 00:05:20.439 --> 00:05:24.120 high -level funk metal improvisation. Real showcase 00:05:24.120 --> 00:05:25.720 stuff. You can hear it right through their records. 00:05:26.259 --> 00:05:28.160 The plague that makes your booty move. Great 00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:31.399 title. Sarcipius's arc, Groove family psycho. 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:34.680 This is where you hear the pastorious influence 00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:37.860 dialed up to 11, the slap technique, the fast 00:05:37.860 --> 00:05:40.199 finger runs, the complex rhythms. He wasn't just 00:05:40.199 --> 00:05:42.740 a metal guy who knew some funk licks. He was 00:05:42.740 --> 00:05:45.220 a seriously sophisticated groove player applying 00:05:45.220 --> 00:05:47.779 it all to heavy music. He was already this complex 00:05:47.779 --> 00:05:50.560 musical force before Metallica even came calling. 00:05:50.740 --> 00:05:54.000 Okay, so after that intense period with suicidal 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:56.360 and infectious grooves, things shifted a bit. 00:05:56.759 --> 00:05:59.370 Mid -90s, he moves towards, well... the sources 00:05:59.370 --> 00:06:01.269 say more straightforward hard rock and metal. 00:06:01.569 --> 00:06:03.850 Right. He joins Ozzy Osbourne's band in the late 00:06:03.850 --> 00:06:06.209 90s. Which shows incredible adaptability, really, 00:06:06.329 --> 00:06:09.670 going from the kind of wild genre mashing improv 00:06:09.670 --> 00:06:13.089 of infectious grooves to the more structured 00:06:13.089 --> 00:06:15.430 world of an Ozzy Stadium show. Definitely requires 00:06:15.430 --> 00:06:17.629 a different kind of discipline. Less about flashy 00:06:17.629 --> 00:06:19.610 technique, maybe, and more about locking into 00:06:19.610 --> 00:06:22.050 that huge hard rock machine. And he contributed 00:06:22.050 --> 00:06:24.029 creatively there, too, right? He wasn't just 00:06:24.029 --> 00:06:26.269 playing the parts. No, he co -wrote several songs 00:06:26.269 --> 00:06:29.240 on the Down to Earth album in 2000. so he brought 00:06:29.240 --> 00:06:31.899 compositional skills to the table, proving he 00:06:31.899 --> 00:06:34.279 could create within that established hard rock 00:06:34.279 --> 00:06:38.860 style. But this Aussie era... It also had that 00:06:38.860 --> 00:06:42.439 footnote, the re -recording controversy in 2002. 00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:44.339 Yeah, you can't really talk about his time with 00:06:44.339 --> 00:06:46.079 Ozzy without mentioning that. It's still pretty 00:06:46.079 --> 00:06:48.259 contentious for some fans. So let's be clear, 00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:50.879 just presenting the facts here. Juhio was asked 00:06:50.879 --> 00:06:53.939 to re -record the original bass parts for the 00:06:53.939 --> 00:06:57.000 reissues of Blizzard of Oz and Diary of a Madman. 00:06:57.240 --> 00:07:01.319 Parts originally played brilliantly by Bob Daisley. 00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:04.060 And the reason given for this... pretty drastic 00:07:04.060 --> 00:07:06.660 move. Daisley claimed he hadn't been paid proper 00:07:06.660 --> 00:07:09.019 royalties for his work on those classic albums. 00:07:09.199 --> 00:07:12.319 Which put Trujillo in a, well, a really awkward 00:07:12.319 --> 00:07:14.740 spot professionally. Absolutely. He's the guy 00:07:14.740 --> 00:07:16.959 tasked with replacing legendary tracks because 00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:19.300 of a legal and financial dispute, not a creative 00:07:19.300 --> 00:07:21.480 one. It's one of those tough situations musicians 00:07:21.480 --> 00:07:23.620 can find themselves in, dealing with legacy, 00:07:24.120 --> 00:07:27.899 money, contracts. Yeah, messy. But it does show 00:07:27.899 --> 00:07:30.500 the level of trust in his ability, that he was 00:07:30.500 --> 00:07:32.660 considered capable of reproducing that iconic 00:07:32.660 --> 00:07:35.339 work under pressure. True. And even while doing 00:07:35.339 --> 00:07:38.300 the Ozzy gig, he kept exploring. He formed Mass 00:07:38.300 --> 00:07:41.100 Mental with Benji Webby from Dub War. Described 00:07:41.100 --> 00:07:43.319 as rag -a -punk metal, so definitely an outlet. 00:07:43.519 --> 00:07:45.899 Oh yeah. While holding down the big rock gig, 00:07:46.100 --> 00:07:48.740 he's still pushing boundaries on the side. They 00:07:48.740 --> 00:07:51.560 release an album in Japan, a live album too. 00:07:52.060 --> 00:07:54.379 It shows he always needed that space for musical 00:07:54.379 --> 00:07:56.879 freedom, for experimentation. You also did a 00:07:56.879 --> 00:07:59.699 short stint with Zach Wild's band, Black Label 00:07:59.699 --> 00:08:02.439 Society, right? Played a few shows. Appeared 00:08:02.439 --> 00:08:06.029 on the 1919 Eternal album in 2002. Uh huh. Kind 00:08:06.029 --> 00:08:08.250 of cementing his reputation as this top tier 00:08:08.250 --> 00:08:10.610 professional, trusted by major players, but someone 00:08:10.610 --> 00:08:12.589 who never really lost touch with those funk and 00:08:12.589 --> 00:08:15.170 fusion roots. He was perfectly set up for what 00:08:15.170 --> 00:08:17.449 came next. Which was the really big one. The 00:08:17.449 --> 00:08:19.610 move that put him firmly into heavy music legend 00:08:19.610 --> 00:08:23.670 status. Joining Metallica, February 24th, 2003. 00:08:24.120 --> 00:08:26.560 Filling that huge void left after Jason Newstart 00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:29.060 resigned two years earlier, a period where producer 00:08:29.060 --> 00:08:31.240 Bob Rock had been handling bass duties in the 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:33.220 studio. And it wasn't like they just picked a 00:08:33.220 --> 00:08:36.179 name out of a hat. No, absolutely not. Trujillo 00:08:36.179 --> 00:08:38.940 already knew the guys. Suicidal tendencies had 00:08:38.940 --> 00:08:41.580 toured with Metallica back in 93 and 94 on those 00:08:41.580 --> 00:08:44.000 big tours. Nowhere else to roam. Shit hits the 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:46.659 shits. Yeah. So they knew him. They knew he could 00:08:46.659 --> 00:08:49.139 handle the pressure, the stage presence, the 00:08:49.139 --> 00:08:52.059 energy they required. He was a known quantity, 00:08:52.379 --> 00:08:56.759 a pro. A known respected pro who got, well, quite 00:08:56.759 --> 00:08:59.440 the welcome package, that $1 million advance. 00:08:59.559 --> 00:09:02.820 Which became legendary largely thanks to the 00:09:02.820 --> 00:09:05.279 some kind of monster documentary showing it all 00:09:05.279 --> 00:09:08.919 unfold. Right. It's just, wow. It really is. 00:09:08.940 --> 00:09:10.639 And you have to think about the psychology there. 00:09:11.100 --> 00:09:13.019 It wasn't just a signing bonus. It felt like 00:09:13.019 --> 00:09:16.139 they were buying stability, commitment, loyalty, 00:09:16.659 --> 00:09:19.039 making absolutely sure their bassist issue was 00:09:19.039 --> 00:09:21.639 solved decisively. Like buying institutional 00:09:21.639 --> 00:09:23.580 certainty, as you put it before. Exactly. Less 00:09:23.580 --> 00:09:26.440 about hiring a musician, more about solidifying 00:09:26.440 --> 00:09:28.879 the foundation of the band itself after a rocky 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:30.919 period. And you have to say, the investment worked 00:09:30.919 --> 00:09:33.440 out. He joined in 03. He's now their longest 00:09:33.440 --> 00:09:36.139 serving bassist. Incredible longevity, which 00:09:36.139 --> 00:09:39.120 speaks volumes about his musical fit, his professionalism, 00:09:39.299 --> 00:09:42.559 and his ability to navigate the sometimes complex 00:09:42.559 --> 00:09:45.000 dynamics within that band, especially back then. 00:09:45.019 --> 00:09:47.480 And he got the official recognition, too, inducted 00:09:47.480 --> 00:09:49.039 into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame with them 00:09:49.039 --> 00:09:53.360 in 2009, alongside The Current Guys and Newstead 00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:56.559 and Cliff Burton. Yes, cementing his place in 00:09:56.559 --> 00:09:59.159 the official Metallica legacy. Looking at the 00:09:59.159 --> 00:10:01.919 discography since he joined, it's significant, 00:10:02.100 --> 00:10:04.480 covers a lot of their modern era. Though we should 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:06.820 clarify this ain't anger situation. Right. He 00:10:06.820 --> 00:10:09.279 joined after that album was recorded in 2003. 00:10:09.879 --> 00:10:12.799 Bob Rock played bass on the studio tracks. Trujillo 00:10:12.799 --> 00:10:15.259 is credited as a member, toured it heavily, and 00:10:15.259 --> 00:10:17.460 he plays on the bonus live DVD that came with 00:10:17.460 --> 00:10:19.620 it. But his proper recorded debut with Metallica 00:10:19.620 --> 00:10:22.659 is Death Magnetic in 2008. which was a really 00:10:22.659 --> 00:10:24.740 important album for them, a deliberate return 00:10:24.740 --> 00:10:27.100 to more complex, thrashy structures. And his 00:10:27.100 --> 00:10:29.039 background must have been perfect for that. Absolutely. 00:10:29.340 --> 00:10:32.259 That rhythmic sophistication, the ability to 00:10:32.259 --> 00:10:34.899 handle syncopation and add groove within those 00:10:34.899 --> 00:10:37.460 intricate riffs, it was crucial in helping them 00:10:37.460 --> 00:10:39.860 recapture that classic feel, but with a modern 00:10:39.860 --> 00:10:43.500 edge. And since then, the pace hasn't let up. 00:10:43.779 --> 00:10:46.220 You've got the Lou Reed collaboration, Lulu, 00:10:46.639 --> 00:10:48.820 in 2011. Which definitely would have drawn on 00:10:48.820 --> 00:10:52.179 his improvisational skills. Then hardwired to 00:10:52.179 --> 00:10:54.759 self -destruct in 2016, the big orchestral S 00:10:54.759 --> 00:10:59.159 &M 2 project in 2020, and most recently 72 seasons 00:10:59.159 --> 00:11:02.559 in 2023. Across all those different sounds and 00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:05.720 projects, he's been the consistent anchor. He 00:11:05.720 --> 00:11:08.259 brings that pastorious level complexity, but 00:11:08.259 --> 00:11:10.700 knows exactly how to apply it to Hetfield's rhythm 00:11:10.700 --> 00:11:13.220 playing, when to just lay down the root, when 00:11:13.220 --> 00:11:15.820 to add a chord, a harmonic. It's that musical 00:11:15.820 --> 00:11:18.200 intelligence that makes him fit so well. It all 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:19.899 comes back to the technique, doesn't it? The 00:11:19.899 --> 00:11:22.720 foundation he built early on is playing style, 00:11:23.399 --> 00:11:25.740 overwhelmingly finger style. Yeah, which is significant 00:11:25.740 --> 00:11:28.019 in Metallica history. Jason Neustad, mostly pick. 00:11:28.169 --> 00:11:30.889 Aggressive, clicky sound. Cliff Burton. Exclusively 00:11:30.889 --> 00:11:32.970 fingerstyle. So Trio brought back that warmer, 00:11:32.970 --> 00:11:36.169 more dynamic finger approach, which arguably 00:11:36.169 --> 00:11:38.409 works really well with their more complex, modern 00:11:38.409 --> 00:11:41.409 arrangements. And his specific techniques. They're 00:11:41.409 --> 00:11:43.789 not typical rock -based stuff. The sources mention 00:11:43.789 --> 00:11:46.370 playing massive chords and these complex chord 00:11:46.370 --> 00:11:50.139 -based harmonics. Right. He uses the bass harmonically, 00:11:50.279 --> 00:11:53.399 not just rhythmically, adding texture, filling 00:11:53.399 --> 00:11:56.039 space when needed. It goes back to seeing the 00:11:56.039 --> 00:11:58.120 bass as more than just a foundation instrument. 00:11:58.600 --> 00:12:00.059 And, of course, the slap bass. We don't hear 00:12:00.059 --> 00:12:02.500 it on the Metallica studio albums. No, not really, 00:12:02.519 --> 00:12:05.440 but it was huge in his funk days, and he definitely 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:08.279 brought it out live, especially in solos. That 00:12:08.279 --> 00:12:11.559 jungle -essence solo from the 2004 tour. That 00:12:11.559 --> 00:12:13.240 was something else for a Metallica show back 00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:17.279 then. Slap bass, effects, complex fingerwork. 00:12:17.819 --> 00:12:20.899 a real virtuoso moment. Yeah, it was like a direct 00:12:20.899 --> 00:12:23.899 link back to infectious grooves, back to Jaco, 00:12:24.100 --> 00:12:26.039 right there in the middle of a metal concert, 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:28.360 showed he wasn't gonna just bury that part of 00:12:28.360 --> 00:12:30.860 his playing. Yeah, this is fascinating. His method 00:12:30.860 --> 00:12:33.379 for writing things down. He developed his own 00:12:33.379 --> 00:12:36.299 code for bass arrangements. Inspired by an article 00:12:36.299 --> 00:12:38.879 by Pino Palladino, the session legend. Why do 00:12:38.879 --> 00:12:41.330 that? Why create a personal shorthand? Well, 00:12:41.470 --> 00:12:43.370 think about the situation he described using 00:12:43.370 --> 00:12:46.129 it in recording Jerry Cantrell's Degradation 00:12:46.129 --> 00:12:48.370 Trip. He said he was working from these little 00:12:48.370 --> 00:12:51.590 hoodrat demos, where the bass was almost impossible 00:12:51.590 --> 00:12:54.529 to hear clearly. He needed a precise system to 00:12:54.529 --> 00:12:57.350 capture every little rhythmic nuance, ghost notes, 00:12:57.610 --> 00:13:00.730 slaps, pops, mutes, stuff that standard notation 00:13:00.730 --> 00:13:02.990 might miss, especially against complex drums. 00:13:03.250 --> 00:13:05.549 It's that studio musician discipline again. Super 00:13:05.549 --> 00:13:08.309 meticulous. Exactly. The jazz school training 00:13:08.309 --> 00:13:11.049 never really left him. Okay, let's talk gear. 00:13:11.789 --> 00:13:14.549 The tools of the trade. With Metallica, it's 00:13:14.549 --> 00:13:17.070 mainly Warwick Streamer basses, right? Four and 00:13:17.070 --> 00:13:19.370 five strings. Yeah, that's his core sound with 00:13:19.370 --> 00:13:21.549 them. He even has his own signature Warwick Streamer. 00:13:21.590 --> 00:13:23.669 It came out in 2010. But he uses other stuff 00:13:23.669 --> 00:13:26.009 too, reflecting his whole career. Fernandez Gravity 00:13:26.009 --> 00:13:28.610 five strings, one with a silver finish and blue 00:13:28.610 --> 00:13:31.559 flames. That's the one, EMG pickups. He also 00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:34.379 has a Zon Sonus RT signature model. And in the 00:13:34.379 --> 00:13:38.240 past, he's used Tobias ESP Music Man, almost 00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:40.320 always five strings, clearly likes that extended 00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:42.740 range. Though he did use a Fender PBass sometimes 00:13:42.740 --> 00:13:45.340 back with Ozzy and Black Label Society. Right. 00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:48.379 Classic choice for that sound. For amps, it's 00:13:48.379 --> 00:13:52.360 Ampeg. Big, powerful sound. And his strings are 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:55.700 custom Jim Dunlop icons, taper core, stainless 00:13:55.700 --> 00:13:58.679 steel. Except for the B string, which is non 00:13:58.679 --> 00:14:01.179 -tapered for extra tension. Crucial for those 00:14:01.179 --> 00:14:04.620 low tunings. But the gear story, the most amazing 00:14:04.620 --> 00:14:06.440 piece, it has to be the Jaco connection. Oh, 00:14:06.559 --> 00:14:09.019 absolutely. Trujillo is the current custodian, 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:12.330 the caretaker. of Jaco Pistorius's legendary 00:14:12.330 --> 00:14:15.049 Bass of Doom. That's just incredible. The actual 00:14:15.049 --> 00:14:18.090 62 fretless jazz bass that Jaco used on everything. 00:14:18.210 --> 00:14:20.950 The very one. And the fact that Trujillo is entrusted 00:14:20.950 --> 00:14:22.909 with it and has even played it on stage with 00:14:22.909 --> 00:14:26.230 Metallica, it's this profound link back to his 00:14:26.230 --> 00:14:28.490 hero, bridging those worlds in the most tangible 00:14:28.490 --> 00:14:31.470 way possible. Wow. And his live sound. It's not 00:14:31.470 --> 00:14:33.210 just bass into amp. He's got a pretty complex 00:14:33.210 --> 00:14:35.029 pedalboard. Yeah, it's a real toolkit. You've 00:14:35.029 --> 00:14:37.509 got an Electro Harmonix Qtron for that envelope 00:14:37.509 --> 00:14:41.289 filter sound. Tech 21 Sans Amp. FDI, TEC -21XXL 00:14:41.289 --> 00:14:43.830 for dirt, an MXR Smart Gate for noise, a Morley 00:14:43.830 --> 00:14:46.750 Wah, and a Boss Octave pedal. All run clean with 00:14:46.750 --> 00:14:48.970 Voodoo lab power. That's a lot of options for 00:14:48.970 --> 00:14:50.929 texture and dynamics. More than you might expect 00:14:50.929 --> 00:14:53.470 in straight -up metal. Definitely. And his dedication 00:14:53.470 --> 00:14:56.090 to Jaco goes beyond just playing or owning the 00:14:56.090 --> 00:14:59.009 bass. He produced the documentary Jaco back in 00:14:59.009 --> 00:15:02.049 2012. Right. Now directed by Stephen Kijak and 00:15:02.049 --> 00:15:04.929 Paul Marchand. It even became the official film 00:15:04.929 --> 00:15:08.129 of Record Store Day in 2014. It just shows his 00:15:08.129 --> 00:15:10.809 commitment to championing that legacy, ensuring 00:15:10.809 --> 00:15:13.389 that kind of groundbreaking musicianship gets 00:15:13.389 --> 00:15:15.789 seen. He's actively using his platform in the 00:15:15.789 --> 00:15:18.529 metal world to promote high -level fusion. It's 00:15:18.529 --> 00:15:21.750 a really unique position he holds. Okay, moving 00:15:21.750 --> 00:15:24.509 beyond the music slightly. His personal life 00:15:24.509 --> 00:15:27.309 seems grounded, collaborative. Yeah, married 00:15:27.309 --> 00:15:30.710 son and a daughter. And his wife, Chloe, is an 00:15:30.710 --> 00:15:32.950 artist. She did that amazing pyrography design, 00:15:33.009 --> 00:15:35.389 the Aztec calendar, on one of his bases. That's 00:15:35.389 --> 00:15:37.990 beautiful. A visual link between his art, family, 00:15:38.169 --> 00:15:40.029 and heritage right there on his instrument. And 00:15:40.029 --> 00:15:42.149 the musical legacy is continuing. Very directly, 00:15:42.389 --> 00:15:44.649 his son, Ty Trujillo. He's making waves, isn't 00:15:44.649 --> 00:15:47.769 he? Bassist for OTTTO, and significantly, he 00:15:47.769 --> 00:15:49.690 plays bass for Suicidal Tendencies now, too. 00:15:49.730 --> 00:15:52.269 It's incredible. The son of the Metallica bassist 00:15:52.269 --> 00:15:54.029 is playing in the band that gave his dad his 00:15:54.029 --> 00:15:57.129 first big break. He even filled in for Korn on 00:15:57.129 --> 00:16:00.090 tour when he was, what, 12? Crazy. It connects 00:16:00.090 --> 00:16:02.830 all these generations of heavy music. That funk 00:16:02.830 --> 00:16:05.350 thrash lineage keeps going. And Robert's own 00:16:05.350 --> 00:16:08.539 visibility. It's huge. Beyond music, he's been 00:16:08.539 --> 00:16:11.080 a character and guitar hero, Metallica. Of course. 00:16:12.299 --> 00:16:15.039 Tony Hawk's Pro Skater HD, if you have the right 00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:18.059 DLC pack. That's right, the Pro Skater 3 HD River 00:16:18.059 --> 00:16:21.340 Pack, plus him and all of Metallica are playable 00:16:21.340 --> 00:16:23.799 in Fortnite. So he spans classic thrash gaming, 00:16:24.139 --> 00:16:26.679 skateboarding sims, and modern battle royales. 00:16:26.860 --> 00:16:28.919 Talk about cultural reach. And we have all this 00:16:28.919 --> 00:16:31.360 visual documentation too, some kind of monster, 00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:35.080 the Big Four concert films, his own Jocko documentary. 00:16:35.399 --> 00:16:37.419 He's a very well -documented figure in music 00:16:37.419 --> 00:16:39.299 history. So looking back at everything we've 00:16:39.299 --> 00:16:41.820 covered. What's the big takeaway? For me, it's 00:16:41.820 --> 00:16:44.600 not just the skill, it's how smoothly he moved 00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:48.259 between jazz, fusion, funk, metal. He didn't 00:16:48.259 --> 00:16:49.779 leave things behind, he brought them with him. 00:16:50.059 --> 00:16:52.539 Exactly. He weaponized those diverse influences. 00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:55.179 His core strength isn't just playing metal, it's 00:16:55.179 --> 00:16:57.840 the deep rhythmic sophistication from soul, from 00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:00.639 James Brown and especially from Jaco. That's 00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:02.799 why he fits Metallica so well now, bringing groove 00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:05.680 and complexity. It ensures his rhythm section 00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:08.500 work is always smart, always has that underlying 00:17:08.500 --> 00:17:10.809 feel. Which brings us to that final thought for 00:17:10.809 --> 00:17:12.869 you, the listener. What does this incredible 00:17:12.869 --> 00:17:16.069 duality anchoring Metallica while championing 00:17:16.069 --> 00:17:18.950 Jaco Pastorius, even caring for the Bass of Doom, 00:17:19.170 --> 00:17:22.250 tell us about genre itself? Yeah. Here's a guy 00:17:22.250 --> 00:17:25.430 excelling at the peak of heavy metal while simultaneously 00:17:25.430 --> 00:17:29.109 preserving this high art jazz legacy. Maybe it 00:17:29.109 --> 00:17:31.210 suggests that for the truly great musicians, 00:17:31.430 --> 00:17:34.029 those genre borders, they're kind of meaningless, 00:17:34.190 --> 00:17:36.509 just points on a map during a much bigger journey 00:17:36.509 --> 00:17:38.750 of synthesis. A journey that's still ongoing? 00:17:38.920 --> 00:17:40.859 a really provocative thought to end on. Thank 00:17:40.859 --> 00:17:42.859 you for sharing all that insight today. My pleasure. 00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:44.559 It's a fascinating career to unpack.