WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.120 Welcome to the Deep Dive. Today we are strapping 00:00:03.120 --> 00:00:06.580 ourselves in for, well, a deep examination of 00:00:06.580 --> 00:00:08.539 an authentic American troubadour whose career 00:00:08.539 --> 00:00:10.960 is less of a straight line and more of a decades 00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:14.320 -long battle for artistic control, John Mellencamp. 00:00:14.800 --> 00:00:17.329 It really is a remarkable story. And our mission 00:00:17.329 --> 00:00:19.670 today, you know, is to distill the key facts, 00:00:19.870 --> 00:00:22.510 the inspirations, and yeah, some often surprising 00:00:22.510 --> 00:00:24.829 collaborators that tracked his evolution. We're 00:00:24.829 --> 00:00:28.109 really looking at how he moved from that corporate 00:00:28.109 --> 00:00:30.730 pop product known as Johnny Cougar. Ugh, that 00:00:30.730 --> 00:00:33.429 name. Right. To the gritty, socially conscious 00:00:33.429 --> 00:00:36.630 voice of the Heartland rock movement. We're zeroing 00:00:36.630 --> 00:00:38.950 in on those foundational hits and the, well, 00:00:39.350 --> 00:00:41.810 the nuanced history behind them. John J. Mellencamp, 00:00:41.869 --> 00:00:44.810 born in Indiana in 1951, he didn't just participate 00:00:44.810 --> 00:00:46.549 in Heartland Rock. You could argue he helped 00:00:46.549 --> 00:00:49.369 define it alongside genres like roots rock, folk 00:00:49.369 --> 00:00:52.450 rock. But the critical sources really point out 00:00:52.450 --> 00:00:54.509 that his true innovation kicks in around the 00:00:54.509 --> 00:00:56.850 Scarecrow album. Exactly. That's when he successfully 00:00:56.850 --> 00:00:59.189 started bringing in traditional acoustic instruments, 00:00:59.289 --> 00:01:00.729 you know, I think the dulcimer, the mandolin, 00:01:00.869 --> 00:01:03.210 the fiddle, and weaving them into a hard rock 00:01:03.210 --> 00:01:05.409 framework. Which sounds kind of counterintuitive 00:01:05.409 --> 00:01:08.620 on paper. But it worked. It totally worked. And 00:01:08.620 --> 00:01:11.519 that fusion is precisely why he's often cited 00:01:11.519 --> 00:01:14.900 as a pioneer of the alternative country genre, 00:01:15.400 --> 00:01:17.400 what some people call the no depression sound. 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:21.239 He took the power, the structure of arena rock 00:01:21.239 --> 00:01:23.959 and just grounded it in that Appalachian tradition. 00:01:24.180 --> 00:01:26.680 But before we even get deep into the sound, we 00:01:26.680 --> 00:01:29.540 absolutely have to talk about the name, the stage 00:01:29.540 --> 00:01:32.620 name saga. It's like a visual record of his fight 00:01:32.620 --> 00:01:34.719 for independence. Oh, completely. You can literally 00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:38.120 track his growing power, his leverage by what 00:01:38.120 --> 00:01:40.680 name was printed on the album cover. It started, 00:01:40.700 --> 00:01:42.760 of course, with that truly terrible corporate 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:45.640 mandated name, Johnny Cougar. Just sounds so 00:01:45.640 --> 00:01:47.439 70s marketing meeting, doesn't it? Doesn't it? 00:01:47.459 --> 00:01:49.540 It was forced on him by his first manager, Tony 00:01:49.540 --> 00:01:52.079 DeFries. Now, DeFries was legendary, right? He 00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:55.280 managed David Bowie's Ziggy Stardust persona, 00:01:55.359 --> 00:01:57.500 for goodness sake. He knew how to create an image. 00:01:57.680 --> 00:02:00.799 OK, so he had credentials, but but DeFries insisted 00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:04.060 Mellencamp was just too difficult, too ethnic, 00:02:04.239 --> 00:02:07.019 maybe too long and too hard for the American 00:02:07.019 --> 00:02:09.479 market to swallow. Mellencamp was apparently 00:02:09.479 --> 00:02:12.599 furious, but, you know, young artist first deal. 00:02:12.919 --> 00:02:15.199 He had to comply. And you've got to imagine when 00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:18.400 that first album, Chestnut Street Incident, completely 00:02:18.400 --> 00:02:21.039 bombed, sold something like only twelve thousand 00:02:21.039 --> 00:02:23.439 copies. Yeah, a total flop. That must have just. 00:02:23.580 --> 00:02:25.699 poured gasoline on his resentment towards that 00:02:25.699 --> 00:02:27.740 name. So he quickly shortened it right to just 00:02:27.740 --> 00:02:30.520 John Cougar. He did. But here's the really interesting 00:02:30.520 --> 00:02:34.270 pivot point or maybe the lack of one. He didn't 00:02:34.270 --> 00:02:36.650 fully reclaim his own name immediately after 00:02:36.650 --> 00:02:38.990 finding massive success. It wasn't like, OK, 00:02:39.009 --> 00:02:41.310 I'm a star now, ditch the Cougar. Right. Why 00:02:41.310 --> 00:02:43.310 the decade -long compromise? That seems odd if 00:02:43.310 --> 00:02:45.110 he hated it so much. Well, that's where the business 00:02:45.110 --> 00:02:47.629 side of music always, always clashes with the 00:02:47.629 --> 00:02:49.949 art. By the time he hit his commercial peak with 00:02:49.949 --> 00:02:53.030 American Fool in 82, the name John Cougar was 00:02:53.030 --> 00:02:56.110 a brand. People knew it. Ah, OK. So dropping 00:02:56.110 --> 00:02:58.689 it cold would have been risky. Hugely risky. 00:02:59.090 --> 00:03:02.270 Commercial suicide, potentially. So his first 00:03:02.270 --> 00:03:04.810 real step towards reclaiming his artistic control, 00:03:04.889 --> 00:03:08.889 his identity, was a compromise. In 1983 was the 00:03:08.889 --> 00:03:11.789 first album released as John Cougar Mellencamp. 00:03:11.969 --> 00:03:14.129 Gotcha. Adding the family name back in. Exactly. 00:03:14.409 --> 00:03:16.949 Reclaiming the Mellencamp part while still acknowledging 00:03:16.949 --> 00:03:19.210 the brand that people recognized on the radio 00:03:19.210 --> 00:03:22.530 and in record stores. So a strategic compromise. 00:03:23.069 --> 00:03:25.550 He sort of slowly weaned the public off the Cougar. 00:03:25.689 --> 00:03:28.300 That's a good way to put it. He finally ditched 00:03:28.300 --> 00:03:32.439 it entirely in 1991, settling on just John Mellencamp, 00:03:32.560 --> 00:03:34.800 the name he's used ever since. But yeah, it's 00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:37.599 a decades -long fight for authenticity, literally 00:03:37.599 --> 00:03:40.539 fought out in bold font on album covers. Pretty 00:03:40.539 --> 00:03:42.560 unique. And despite all that, you know, the corporate 00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:45.340 meddling, the early struggles, the name changes, 00:03:45.860 --> 00:03:47.560 the success metrics are just enormous. Well, 00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:50.099 they are. We're talking over 60 million albums 00:03:50.099 --> 00:03:52.840 sold worldwide. and he holds the record for the 00:03:52.840 --> 00:03:55.639 most songs by a solo artist to hit number one 00:03:55.639 --> 00:03:57.979 on the Hot Mainstream Rock Tracks chart. Seven 00:03:57.979 --> 00:04:00.740 number ones there. That specific chart, the Rock 00:04:00.740 --> 00:04:03.120 Tracks chart, is really telling, isn't it? Why 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:05.319 dominate that chart maybe more than the general 00:04:05.319 --> 00:04:07.159 pop charts later on? What does that tell you 00:04:07.159 --> 00:04:09.849 about his audience? It speaks volumes, I think, 00:04:10.069 --> 00:04:12.490 about that transition in his image and sound 00:04:12.490 --> 00:04:15.389 we were talking about. The early Cougar material, 00:04:15.710 --> 00:04:18.610 stuff like Hurt So Good, was aimed squarely at 00:04:18.610 --> 00:04:21.410 Top 40 pop radio, the Billboard Hot 100. Right. 00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:24.660 But as he brought in more of those acoustic roots 00:04:24.660 --> 00:04:27.579 elements and his lyrics got heavier, more political, 00:04:27.639 --> 00:04:31.379 maybe a bit darker, his core appeal shifted. 00:04:31.459 --> 00:04:34.120 It moved heavily toward album -oriented rock, 00:04:34.620 --> 00:04:37.379 AOR and classic rock stations. So the audience 00:04:37.379 --> 00:04:40.160 evolved with him. Exactly. The core audience 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:42.199 that stuck with him, the ones buying the albums 00:04:42.199 --> 00:04:44.639 and listening to rock radio, they valued the 00:04:44.639 --> 00:04:46.740 substance, the longevity. They weren't just there 00:04:46.740 --> 00:04:48.819 for the pop novelty of the moment. And he definitely 00:04:48.819 --> 00:04:51.199 earned those accolades, cementing his place. 00:04:51.819 --> 00:04:53.600 induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame 00:04:53.600 --> 00:04:55.899 in 2008. And the Songwriters Hall of Fame in 00:04:55.899 --> 00:05:00.120 2018, which is arguably just as if not more prestigious 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:03.180 for someone like him. Absolutely. But to really 00:05:03.180 --> 00:05:05.199 track that transformation, we have to start with 00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:08.540 the album that gave him the commercial muscle, 00:05:08.680 --> 00:05:10.819 the leverage he needed to start fighting the 00:05:10.819 --> 00:05:13.720 machine. American Fool back in 1982. Yeah, that 00:05:13.720 --> 00:05:15.939 one changed the game. Okay, let's unpack this 00:05:15.939 --> 00:05:18.360 huge commercial breakthrough. American Fool. 00:05:18.500 --> 00:05:20.259 This was really the make or break album, wasn't 00:05:20.259 --> 00:05:22.579 it? After several earlier attempts under the, 00:05:22.579 --> 00:05:25.579 uh... the Johnny Cougar name hadn't quite landed 00:05:25.579 --> 00:05:27.579 that commercial punch he needed for leverage. 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:30.879 It absolutely delivered. The album launched with, 00:05:31.220 --> 00:05:34.040 hurts so good. And that track just perfectly 00:05:34.040 --> 00:05:37.259 captured that early 80s sound. It was up tempo, 00:05:37.779 --> 00:05:40.319 incredibly catchy, but just gritty enough around 00:05:40.319 --> 00:05:42.800 the edges to feel a little rebellious. And what's 00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:44.819 really remarkable about the song, according to 00:05:44.819 --> 00:05:47.699 the sources, is its origin story. It sounds incredibly 00:05:47.699 --> 00:05:50.199 casual, almost low effort. He co -wrote it with 00:05:50.199 --> 00:05:52.339 his childhood friend, George Green. Yeah, George 00:05:52.339 --> 00:05:54.149 Green. who we'll talk more about later, a key 00:05:54.149 --> 00:05:56.550 figure. Mellencamp apparently recounted that 00:05:56.550 --> 00:05:58.990 the entire song just originated when he kind 00:05:58.990 --> 00:06:01.970 of muttered the phrase, hurt so good. And they 00:06:01.970 --> 00:06:03.910 just laughed about the concept and apparently 00:06:03.910 --> 00:06:06.089 finished it really quickly, just batting lines 00:06:06.089 --> 00:06:08.870 back and forth. It's a fantastic example, isn't 00:06:08.870 --> 00:06:12.569 it? How those massive, enduring hits can sometimes 00:06:12.569 --> 00:06:15.170 spring from the most casual, almost accidental, 00:06:15.529 --> 00:06:19.029 spontaneous inspiration. Not always some tortured 00:06:19.029 --> 00:06:22.680 artist moment. Totally. The success was just 00:06:22.680 --> 00:06:24.860 staggering. It peaked at number two on the Billboard 00:06:24.860 --> 00:06:28.199 Hot 100 and 82. It famously got held off the 00:06:28.199 --> 00:06:30.839 top spot only by Survivor's Eye of the Tiger, 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:33.100 which was, you know, a monster hit from Rocky 00:06:33.100 --> 00:06:35.899 the Third. Right. Unstoppable that summer. But 00:06:35.899 --> 00:06:37.959 Hurt So Good had this incredible staying power. 00:06:38.060 --> 00:06:41.019 He spent 16 weeks in the top 10. 16 weeks. That's 00:06:41.019 --> 00:06:43.540 not just a hit song. That's like the soundtrack 00:06:43.540 --> 00:06:46.620 to an entire season. It defined that summer for 00:06:46.620 --> 00:06:49.220 a lot of people. And it was the longest. top 00:06:49.220 --> 00:06:52.160 ten run for any song in the entire 1980s. Think 00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:54.199 about that. All the massive hits of the 80s, 00:06:54.220 --> 00:06:56.220 and this one stayed hot the longest. It just 00:06:56.220 --> 00:06:58.639 shows its incredible longevity and how it defined 00:06:58.639 --> 00:07:00.819 that early phase of his career. And it backed 00:07:00.819 --> 00:07:03.699 him his first major award too, right? Yep. The 00:07:03.699 --> 00:07:06.759 Grammy for Best Rock Vocal Performance, male, 00:07:07.339 --> 00:07:11.500 in 1983. Huge validation. But, you know, it hurts 00:07:11.500 --> 00:07:14.899 so good. built the momentum, then the next single, 00:07:15.079 --> 00:07:17.899 Jack and Diane, really defined the absolute commercial 00:07:17.899 --> 00:07:20.279 peak of that cougar era. That's the big one. 00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:22.779 The really big one. It spent four weeks at number 00:07:22.779 --> 00:07:26.139 one on the Billboard Hot 100. It's still Mellencamp's 00:07:26.139 --> 00:07:28.870 most successful single ever, chart -wise. What's 00:07:28.870 --> 00:07:30.790 fascinating here, though, is the inspiration. 00:07:31.029 --> 00:07:32.470 You wouldn't guess it from the song, but it was 00:07:32.470 --> 00:07:35.329 apparently originally based on a pretty highbrow 00:07:35.329 --> 00:07:39.290 source, the 1962 Tennessee Williams film Sweet 00:07:39.290 --> 00:07:41.490 Bird of Youth. Yeah, starring Paul Nomen and 00:07:41.490 --> 00:07:44.750 Geraldine Page. It's a dark story about disillusionment 00:07:44.750 --> 00:07:47.990 and lost youth. That deep kind of literary source 00:07:47.990 --> 00:07:50.589 provides this whole lost layer of context for 00:07:50.589 --> 00:07:52.529 what ended up becoming a much more straightforward 00:07:52.529 --> 00:07:54.769 narrative about small town teenage life. And 00:07:54.769 --> 00:07:57.069 the sources reveal an even deeper layer of lost 00:07:57.069 --> 00:07:59.589 context. that honestly changes the entire meaning 00:07:59.589 --> 00:08:02.209 of the song's narrative. This is pretty significant. 00:08:02.910 --> 00:08:05.069 Mellencamp admitted years later the song was 00:08:05.069 --> 00:08:07.189 originally conceived as being about an interracial 00:08:07.189 --> 00:08:09.829 couple. Jack was supposed to be African -American, 00:08:10.209 --> 00:08:12.689 not a football star, facing a very different 00:08:12.689 --> 00:08:15.589 kind of future in that small town. Wow. That 00:08:15.589 --> 00:08:17.709 completely reframes it. Doesn't it? Yeah. But 00:08:17.709 --> 00:08:19.990 the record company, sadly, but maybe predictably 00:08:19.990 --> 00:08:22.310 for mainstream pop in that era, persuaded him 00:08:22.310 --> 00:08:24.970 to change that key element. They wanted it more 00:08:24.970 --> 00:08:27.009 generically digestible. you know, for a mass 00:08:27.009 --> 00:08:29.329 audience. And that decision just shifts the whole 00:08:29.329 --> 00:08:31.550 thing. It goes from being potentially a piece 00:08:31.550 --> 00:08:34.370 of subtle social commentary about race and class 00:08:34.370 --> 00:08:39.330 survival in small town America to, well, a nostalgic 00:08:39.330 --> 00:08:42.649 love ballad, which is great, but different. It 00:08:42.649 --> 00:08:45.149 is tragic in a way, but it perfectly illustrates 00:08:45.149 --> 00:08:47.230 the kind of compromises he would still be forced 00:08:47.230 --> 00:08:49.629 to make even as he was achieving that massive 00:08:49.629 --> 00:08:51.629 chart success. He wasn't fully in control yet. 00:08:51.740 --> 00:08:53.940 And the production story of Jack and Diane is 00:08:53.940 --> 00:08:56.220 also legendary. It sounds like it was kind of 00:08:56.220 --> 00:08:59.759 chaos leading to genius. Mellencamp himself apparently 00:08:59.759 --> 00:09:02.039 called the recording process a terrible record 00:09:02.039 --> 00:09:04.200 to make. Yeah, he felt the band really struggled 00:09:04.200 --> 00:09:06.519 to play along with his solo acoustic guitar part. 00:09:06.919 --> 00:09:09.220 The rhythm was tricky. He felt the resulting 00:09:09.220 --> 00:09:11.500 arrangement was kind of weird because of the 00:09:11.500 --> 00:09:14.259 stop start nature needed to keep everyone together. 00:09:14.480 --> 00:09:16.519 But every time we hear that song now, we hear 00:09:16.519 --> 00:09:19.320 these two iconic, almost unintentional elements 00:09:19.320 --> 00:09:21.980 that basically saved it, right? First, there's 00:09:21.980 --> 00:09:25.139 that clapping beat. The hand claps, yeah. Mellencamp 00:09:25.139 --> 00:09:27.820 fully intended to remove them in the final mix. 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:29.899 They were only put there during recording as 00:09:29.899 --> 00:09:31.960 a guide, just something for the musicians to 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:35.039 keep time to because the basic track was so sparse. 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:37.820 But then he realized... He realized the song 00:09:37.820 --> 00:09:40.360 just wouldn't work without it. It gave it that 00:09:40.360 --> 00:09:42.820 essential percussive backbone, that structure 00:09:42.820 --> 00:09:45.759 it needed. Taking it out left it feeling empty. 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:48.740 And then there's the contribution of Mick Ronson, 00:09:48.940 --> 00:09:51.700 guitar legend, Bowie collaborator. producer and 00:09:51.700 --> 00:09:54.480 guitarist Mick Ronson. His input was absolutely 00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:57.340 crucial. Ronson was there, working on the album, 00:09:57.639 --> 00:09:59.679 and he noticed how stripped down and unusual 00:09:59.679 --> 00:10:02.440 the Jack and Diane track felt. Melekamp recalled 00:10:02.440 --> 00:10:05.059 Ronson telling him, basically, this is thin, 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:07.500 you need to put baby rattles on there. The famous 00:10:07.500 --> 00:10:10.340 Baby Rattles percussion. That sounds so random. 00:10:10.559 --> 00:10:13.200 It does sound random. But Ronson was trying to 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:16.419 solve a specific textural problem. The arrangement 00:10:16.419 --> 00:10:18.779 was so bare, really just Mellencamp's acoustic 00:10:18.779 --> 00:10:21.120 guitar and voice for long stretches, that it 00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:24.860 felt, well, almost amateurish maybe? A bit empty. 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:28.159 OK. So Ronson added that very simple shaker -like. 00:10:28.330 --> 00:10:30.629 Percussion the baby rattles to give the rhythm 00:10:30.629 --> 00:10:32.889 this unique shimmer this high -end complexity 00:10:32.889 --> 00:10:34.769 that was missing from the rest of the mix It 00:10:34.769 --> 00:10:37.070 was just a masterstroke of minimalist arrangement 00:10:37.070 --> 00:10:39.389 Filled the space perfectly and Ronson didn't 00:10:39.389 --> 00:10:41.850 just suggest the percussion did he he also sang 00:10:41.850 --> 00:10:44.950 a key part he did He's saying that really catchy 00:10:44.950 --> 00:10:47.470 almost choir ish backing vocal part. Oh, yeah, 00:10:47.549 --> 00:10:50.450 let it rock. Let it roll Well camp readily credits 00:10:50.450 --> 00:10:52.850 Ronson for coming up with that hook It's arguably 00:10:52.850 --> 00:10:54.990 become the most recognized part of the song after 00:10:54.990 --> 00:10:57.350 the main melody itself just amazing how those 00:10:57.559 --> 00:11:00.179 Accidental or unexpected elements came together. 00:11:00.460 --> 00:11:03.639 Serendipity in the studio, it happens. So moving 00:11:03.639 --> 00:11:06.740 into the mid -80s now, he's got the commercial 00:11:06.740 --> 00:11:09.399 clout from American Fool firmly established. 00:11:10.059 --> 00:11:12.519 Mellencamp was finally, really, in a position 00:11:12.519 --> 00:11:15.320 to start redefining his image and his sound. 00:11:15.529 --> 00:11:17.750 on his own terms. Yeah, this is where he really 00:11:17.750 --> 00:11:19.870 starts to fight for his real name and begins 00:11:19.870 --> 00:11:24.330 to deeply define that heartland rock genre, infusing 00:11:24.330 --> 00:11:27.549 it with more overt political conscience. And 00:11:27.549 --> 00:11:30.409 this starts properly with, uh -huh, in 1983. 00:11:30.850 --> 00:11:32.809 That's the first album billed as John Cougar 00:11:32.809 --> 00:11:35.000 Mellingcamp. The compromise name? The compromise 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:38.220 name, yeah. But it marks a definitive shift toward 00:11:38.220 --> 00:11:40.539 those working class observational themes he'd 00:11:40.539 --> 00:11:43.039 become known for. And the lead single, Crumbling 00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:45.120 Down, which he co -wrote again with George Green, 00:11:45.600 --> 00:11:47.539 is kind of a perfect sonic bridge from the earlier 00:11:47.539 --> 00:11:49.080 stuff. It's interesting to know, though, that 00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:51.259 Crumbling Down was actually the very last song 00:11:51.259 --> 00:11:53.639 recorded for the album. It was almost an afterthought. 00:11:53.679 --> 00:11:56.179 That's right. It was added late because Mellencamp 00:11:56.179 --> 00:11:58.600 and his team felt the album still needed a stronger, 00:11:59.039 --> 00:12:01.480 more driving lead single to really establish 00:12:01.480 --> 00:12:04.600 that new Cougar Mellencamp brand identity. And 00:12:04.600 --> 00:12:07.620 the lyrics, they really cut right to the bone 00:12:07.620 --> 00:12:10.100 of that early 80s American anxiety, don't they? 00:12:10.490 --> 00:12:12.789 Well, George Green apparently saw it more as 00:12:12.789 --> 00:12:15.850 a commentary on fading rock stardom. Mellencamp 00:12:15.850 --> 00:12:19.269 himself revealed years later in a rock hall exhibit, 00:12:19.269 --> 00:12:22.350 I think, that for him it was a very political 00:12:22.350 --> 00:12:24.509 song. Yeah, he connected it directly to what 00:12:24.509 --> 00:12:27.049 was happening economically. It was partly inspired, 00:12:27.049 --> 00:12:29.429 apparently, by his own cousin losing his job 00:12:29.429 --> 00:12:32.090 as an electrical engineer. And Mellencamp linked 00:12:32.090 --> 00:12:35.169 that personal story, that personal failure, directly 00:12:35.169 --> 00:12:38.230 to the macroeconomic reality of the Reagan administration. 00:12:38.519 --> 00:12:41.179 That's a huge takeaway right there. He's explicitly 00:12:41.179 --> 00:12:43.299 linking the failure of the individual to the 00:12:43.299 --> 00:12:45.480 political structure. He said the walls were crumbling 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:48.120 down on the poor because of deregulation, that 00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:50.539 deep -seated cynicism kind of hidden behind a 00:12:50.539 --> 00:12:53.039 really catchy rock anthem. That became his signature 00:12:53.039 --> 00:12:55.179 move, didn't it? It absolutely did. And that 00:12:55.179 --> 00:12:57.940 cynicism, or maybe the misinterpretation of that 00:12:57.940 --> 00:13:00.059 cynicism, is perhaps best or worst, depending 00:13:00.059 --> 00:13:02.519 on your view. Illustrated by the next big hit 00:13:02.519 --> 00:13:07.019 from Uh -Huh. Pink Houses. Oh, yes. Pink Houses. 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:10.240 This is the song that really contains the core 00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:13.620 contradiction, the core paradox of his entire 00:13:13.620 --> 00:13:16.559 career, maybe. I think you can argue that. The 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:19.279 genesis of the song itself is just pure Americana 00:13:19.279 --> 00:13:21.980 poetry, though. Mellencamp was driving home from 00:13:21.980 --> 00:13:23.980 the Indianapolis airport, watching the world 00:13:23.980 --> 00:13:27.019 go by from an overpass. Yeah, I read this. He 00:13:27.019 --> 00:13:29.899 saw an old black man sitting outside his small 00:13:29.899 --> 00:13:32.460 pink shotgun house, just sitting on the porch, 00:13:32.940 --> 00:13:35.399 completely unperturbed by all the highway traffic 00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:37.919 and hustle who simply gave Mellencamp a wave 00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:41.220 as he drove past. Exactly. That visual snapshot, 00:13:41.779 --> 00:13:44.360 the kind of contented, maybe defiant figure in 00:13:44.360 --> 00:13:47.159 this simple home against the backdrop of modern 00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:49.799 rush that sparked the initial idea for the song, 00:13:50.059 --> 00:13:52.799 a really powerful image. But despite that beautiful 00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:55.450 visual start, Mellencamp has apparently long 00:13:55.450 --> 00:13:57.889 regretted how the song ended up. He stated, pretty 00:13:57.889 --> 00:13:59.970 repeatedly, his profound unhappiness with the 00:13:59.970 --> 00:14:02.090 final verse. Yeah, he wished he had done a better 00:14:02.090 --> 00:14:04.029 job, given it more meaning. He seems to feel 00:14:04.029 --> 00:14:06.210 he compromised the power of the social critique 00:14:06.210 --> 00:14:08.230 he originally intended to deliver in that last 00:14:08.230 --> 00:14:10.990 section. And this leads directly to the huge 00:14:10.990 --> 00:14:13.370 paradox we really have to spend some time on. 00:14:14.230 --> 00:14:16.809 Mellencamp intended that famous line, ain't that 00:14:16.809 --> 00:14:20.909 America, to be drenched in sarcasm. Utter cynicism. 00:14:21.029 --> 00:14:23.990 Right. He saw the song as a critical lesson on 00:14:23.990 --> 00:14:27.330 race. class and survival in America. He wanted 00:14:27.330 --> 00:14:29.730 you, the listener, to see the gap between the 00:14:29.730 --> 00:14:32.289 promise of the American dream and the often harsh 00:14:32.289 --> 00:14:35.389 reality for ordinary people. But instead, it 00:14:35.389 --> 00:14:37.789 became the exact opposite in the public consciousness. 00:14:38.110 --> 00:14:39.990 Completely. It was widely and you have to say 00:14:39.990 --> 00:14:43.429 completely misinterpreted as a straight up uncomplicated, 00:14:43.750 --> 00:14:46.330 sometimes even jingoistic patriotic anthem, which 00:14:46.330 --> 00:14:48.590 is just fascinating. So why? Why does that happen? 00:14:48.690 --> 00:14:51.429 Why does the audience or a large part of it consistently 00:14:51.429 --> 00:14:54.379 miss that cynical core he intended? Well, I think 00:14:54.379 --> 00:14:56.480 you touched on it earlier. It might be the structure 00:14:56.480 --> 00:14:58.960 of the music itself, that uplifting major key 00:14:58.960 --> 00:15:02.080 melody combined with the really powerful anthemic 00:15:02.080 --> 00:15:05.279 chorus delivery. It just sonically overwhelms 00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:07.259 the bleakness or the critique and some of the 00:15:07.259 --> 00:15:09.360 lyrical details. So the sound trumps the words. 00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:12.659 Often, yeah. The human ear and maybe the collective 00:15:12.659 --> 00:15:15.879 psyche often defaults to the positive interpretation 00:15:15.879 --> 00:15:18.460 when the musical structure is so rousing, so 00:15:18.460 --> 00:15:21.100 communal sounding. People hear the sound of unity 00:15:21.100 --> 00:15:24.080 or patriotism and assume the message must also 00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:26.980 be one of simple unity or patriotism. That's 00:15:26.980 --> 00:15:29.659 really insightful. The music itself kind of betrays 00:15:29.659 --> 00:15:32.879 the lyrics' darker intent. Because the song sounds 00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:36.159 like an embrace of Americana, the listener, whether 00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:37.840 they're doing it consciously or not, kind of 00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:40.279 filters out the class critique, the racial undertones, 00:15:40.399 --> 00:15:43.340 and just accepts the song as a simple, unifying 00:15:43.340 --> 00:15:45.639 cheer. Which must have been incredibly frustrating 00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:48.600 for him. Oh, constantly. And this misinterpretation 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:50.580 created constant political headaches for him 00:15:50.580 --> 00:15:53.840 down the line. Mellencamp, who is a devoted Democratic 00:15:53.840 --> 00:15:56.919 Party supporter, very liberal views. He had to 00:15:56.919 --> 00:15:59.779 actively police the songs used by conservatives. 00:16:00.100 --> 00:16:02.539 Famously, yeah. He sent a cease and desist letter 00:16:02.539 --> 00:16:05.179 to John McCain's presidential campaign back in 00:16:05.179 --> 00:16:07.440 2008 when they started using it. And even more 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:10.460 pointedly, his team issued very specific instructions 00:16:10.460 --> 00:16:13.059 to the National Organization for Marriage, NOM, 00:16:13.240 --> 00:16:14.879 the group opposing same -sex marriage, telling 00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:18.139 them to stop using it in 2010. And he didn't 00:16:18.139 --> 00:16:21.279 mince words. He explicitly stated through his 00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:23.919 publicist that his own views on same -sex marriage 00:16:23.919 --> 00:16:28.200 were completely at odds with Enomim's stated 00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:30.559 agenda. He's probably one of the most vigilant 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:33.019 artists in modern music when it comes to controlling 00:16:33.019 --> 00:16:34.899 the political alignment of his back catalog. 00:16:35.159 --> 00:16:38.779 Okay, so moving on to 1985 now. We reach the 00:16:38.779 --> 00:16:42.059 album that really fundamentally shifts his musical 00:16:42.059 --> 00:16:45.529 identity, Scarecrow. This is the big one. musically 00:16:45.529 --> 00:16:47.649 speaking. This is where he gains enough control, 00:16:47.809 --> 00:16:50.629 enough confidence maybe, to move beyond those 00:16:50.629 --> 00:16:53.389 standard arena rock formulas. And crucially, 00:16:53.450 --> 00:16:56.090 he started recording primarily at his own studio, 00:16:56.389 --> 00:16:59.029 Belmont Mall, back in Belmont, Indiana, really 00:16:59.029 --> 00:17:01.330 cementing his geographical identity too. Yeah, 00:17:01.570 --> 00:17:03.990 and Scarecrow is the foundation of his claim 00:17:03.990 --> 00:17:06.750 to being a progenitor of that no -depression 00:17:06.750 --> 00:17:09.269 or alternative country genre. The transition 00:17:09.269 --> 00:17:11.269 wasn't just thematic, it was deeply musical. 00:17:11.589 --> 00:17:14.109 He definitively consistently incorporated those 00:17:14.109 --> 00:17:16.019 traditions folk and roots instruments we mentioned 00:17:16.019 --> 00:17:18.119 earlier the fiddle the mandolin the dulcimer 00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:20.660 right into his rock framework so it wasn't just 00:17:20.660 --> 00:17:23.240 an occasional flavor anymore not at all he was 00:17:23.240 --> 00:17:26.349 essentially telling a modern rock story but using 00:17:26.349 --> 00:17:29.509 the sonic vocabulary, the instrumentation, often 00:17:29.509 --> 00:17:31.890 associated with older forms like bluegrass and 00:17:31.890 --> 00:17:34.289 Appalachian folk music. That blending of the 00:17:34.289 --> 00:17:36.890 acoustic textures with the electric grit is really 00:17:36.890 --> 00:17:39.130 what makes that album and his subsequent work 00:17:39.130 --> 00:17:42.329 so revolutionary for the time. And apparently, 00:17:42.609 --> 00:17:45.349 to achieve this sound, he didn't exactly ease 00:17:45.349 --> 00:17:48.839 the band into it gently. No, he didn't. He apparently 00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:51.240 required his band members to learn nearly a hundred 00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:54.859 different 1960s rock and soul songs, almost mathematically 00:17:54.859 --> 00:17:57.200 verbatim, before they even started recording 00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:00.700 Scarecrow. That's intense homework. Right. He 00:18:00.700 --> 00:18:03.240 was demanding they absorb the roots, the structure, 00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:06.240 the feel of American popular music really, really 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:08.259 deeply before they tried to build something new 00:18:08.259 --> 00:18:10.519 on top of it. And that grounding, that deep dive 00:18:10.519 --> 00:18:13.079 into the past, immediately produced hits that 00:18:13.079 --> 00:18:16.480 felt both classic and new. Take Lonely All Night. 00:18:16.619 --> 00:18:19.140 Yeah. The lead single. It topped the Top Rock 00:18:19.140 --> 00:18:21.180 Tracks chart for five weeks straight. Big hit 00:18:21.180 --> 00:18:23.599 on Auck Radio. Yeah. And the title inspiration 00:18:23.599 --> 00:18:25.900 is another classic movie deep cut from him. Right. 00:18:25.940 --> 00:18:28.940 Not just a random phrase. No, it apparently came 00:18:28.940 --> 00:18:31.779 from a specific character -driven scene in the 00:18:31.779 --> 00:18:35.920 1963 film HUD, starring Paul Newman, specifically 00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:38.839 focusing on HUD's really strained, difficult 00:18:38.839 --> 00:18:40.880 relationship with his father. It just shows, 00:18:40.900 --> 00:18:43.339 again, how his inspiration was often coming from 00:18:43.339 --> 00:18:46.720 these deep narrative, often cinematic sources, 00:18:47.099 --> 00:18:49.339 even for rock anthems. I love that detail. And 00:18:49.339 --> 00:18:51.000 there's also the fun little detail about the 00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:53.589 music video for A Lonely Old Night, right? with 00:18:53.589 --> 00:18:55.970 George Green's wife. Oh, yeah. Catherine Green, 00:18:55.970 --> 00:18:58.750 George's wife, appeared as Mellencamp's girlfriend 00:18:58.750 --> 00:19:02.089 in the video. Apparently, she jokingly told Mellencamp, 00:19:02.109 --> 00:19:04.490 who was kind of unrealistic for a huge rock star 00:19:04.490 --> 00:19:06.650 like him, to be singing about his nights being 00:19:06.650 --> 00:19:08.670 lonely. So he put her in the video. That's pretty 00:19:08.670 --> 00:19:10.170 funny. And then there's the other huge anthem 00:19:10.170 --> 00:19:13.289 from Scarecrow, the ode to home small town. Yeah, 00:19:13.329 --> 00:19:16.390 which Mellencamp explicitly intended as an affirmation. 00:19:16.549 --> 00:19:18.049 His quote was something like, you don't have 00:19:18.049 --> 00:19:19.809 to live in New York or Los Angeles to live a 00:19:19.809 --> 00:19:22.349 full life. He was really defending the dignity 00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:24.740 the value of the regional American experience, 00:19:24.859 --> 00:19:26.980 his own experience. And the origin story for 00:19:26.980 --> 00:19:30.220 that one is just pure Midwest reality. Apparently 00:19:30.220 --> 00:19:33.279 he wrote it in the laundry room of his old house 00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:36.920 in Seymour, Indiana on an electronic typewriter, 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:39.079 no less. Yeah, he talked about how people were 00:19:39.079 --> 00:19:41.099 upstairs in the house kind of laughing and carrying 00:19:41.099 --> 00:19:43.200 on and they were annoyed by the sound of him 00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:46.039 typing away down there until he played the finished 00:19:46.039 --> 00:19:49.160 song for them. And they were immediately silenced 00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:51.339 by the weight and honesty of the track. So the 00:19:51.339 --> 00:19:53.480 next time you hear that giant stadium anthem, 00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:55.799 you got to remember it started with him basically 00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:58.559 dodging someone folding socks in a laundry room. 00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:02.160 Exactly. It's that mundane, grounded origin that 00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:04.740 makes the song feel so authentic, I think. Okay, 00:20:04.859 --> 00:20:07.640 and finally on Scarecrow, we have The Outlier, 00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:11.480 maybe? R -O -C -K in the USA, a salute to 60s 00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:14.259 rock, which was tucked onto the album. Yeah, 00:20:14.380 --> 00:20:16.519 and Mellencamp was apparently incredibly reluctant 00:20:16.519 --> 00:20:19.440 to even include this track. He saw it as too 00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:21.940 light -hearted, maybe trivial. Really? He thought 00:20:21.940 --> 00:20:23.940 it diluted the seriousness of the other songs. 00:20:24.299 --> 00:20:27.380 Exactly. He worried it didn't fit alongside the 00:20:27.380 --> 00:20:31.019 grimier, more socially conscious songs like Rain 00:20:31.019 --> 00:20:33.730 on the Scarecrow. He initially considered it 00:20:33.730 --> 00:20:36.289 just a bonus party track, maybe for the cassette 00:20:36.289 --> 00:20:38.650 or CD versions, not part of the main album statement. 00:20:38.829 --> 00:20:41.609 But his manager stepped in. Wisely, yeah. His 00:20:41.609 --> 00:20:43.930 manager, Don Gemmen, I believe, recognized its 00:20:43.930 --> 00:20:46.829 obvious chart potential and pushed for its inclusion. 00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:49.380 And thank goodness he did, because it became 00:20:49.380 --> 00:20:51.599 a massive hit, reaching number two on the Hot 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:54.079 100. And musically, it's just an explicit homage, 00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:57.000 right? It directly references various 60 songs, 00:20:57.380 --> 00:20:59.660 like the Trog's Wild Thing is in there. Yep, 00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:02.680 among others. It directly reflects all that intense 00:21:02.680 --> 00:21:05.000 Roots homework he had forced his Dan to do before 00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:07.240 the sessions. It was like the graduation party 00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:09.700 after the hard study. And even the music video 00:21:09.700 --> 00:21:11.680 for that one carried a message, maybe a bit more 00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:14.440 subtly this time. It did. It featured an African 00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:16.940 -American vocal group performing alongside a 00:21:16.940 --> 00:21:19.440 Caucasian instrumental group. It was a deliberate 00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:22.160 visual statement about the unity of American 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:24.319 music, different traditions coming together, 00:21:24.500 --> 00:21:28.160 underscoring his consistent desire to bridge 00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:30.519 racial divides through his art, even in a fun 00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:34.180 rock song. So that blend of the acoustic instruments, 00:21:34.700 --> 00:21:37.200 the sharpening social themes and that stadium 00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:40.660 rock power. It really peaked arguably with the 00:21:40.660 --> 00:21:43.759 next album, 1987's The Lonesome Jubilee. Yeah, 00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:46.119 many fans and critics point to this one as the 00:21:46.119 --> 00:21:48.940 absolute pinnacle of that signature sound. That's 00:21:48.940 --> 00:21:51.019 where it all just completely solidified into 00:21:51.019 --> 00:21:54.339 that undeniable Mellingkamp formula, that rousing, 00:21:54.779 --> 00:21:56.720 really crystalline mix of acoustic and electric 00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:59.019 guitars, a prominent Appalachian fiddle, and 00:21:59.019 --> 00:22:01.599 those almost gospel -style backing vocals. And 00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:03.500 the sound of the band really changed significantly 00:22:03.500 --> 00:22:05.640 when he brought in fiddle player Lisa Germano 00:22:05.640 --> 00:22:07.480 just before the tour for this album, didn't it? 00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:10.259 Oh, absolutely. That Appalachian texture, which 00:22:10.259 --> 00:22:12.480 was present on Scarecrow, suddenly went from 00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:14.569 being just a background feature to a central 00:22:14.569 --> 00:22:17.089 driving element on Lonesome Jubilee. The fiddle 00:22:17.089 --> 00:22:19.250 wasn't just color anymore. It became essential 00:22:19.250 --> 00:22:21.710 to the rhythm, the melody, the whole identity 00:22:21.710 --> 00:22:23.829 of the band at that point. And the lead single 00:22:23.829 --> 00:22:27.490 really announced that new, maybe fiercer sound, 00:22:27.970 --> 00:22:31.269 paper in fire. A biographer described this as 00:22:31.269 --> 00:22:34.589 a ferocious song, even calling it the aural equivalent 00:22:34.589 --> 00:22:37.589 of a wild beast breaking out of its cage. It 00:22:37.589 --> 00:22:40.769 does feel raw, visceral. Its roots were intensely 00:22:40.769 --> 00:22:43.289 personal for him. Mellencamp revealed the song 00:22:43.289 --> 00:22:45.589 was actually about his uncle Joe Mellencamp and 00:22:45.589 --> 00:22:47.890 what he called the family's ingrained anger. 00:22:47.950 --> 00:22:50.190 Wow, that's specific. Yeah, he noted that his 00:22:50.190 --> 00:22:52.509 uncle could be cruel to others and his own worst 00:22:52.509 --> 00:22:55.640 enemy. The song takes this very specific, painful 00:22:55.640 --> 00:22:58.660 family dynamic and translates it into this universal 00:22:58.660 --> 00:23:00.920 rock song about self -destruction, about passion 00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:03.460 burning itself out too quickly, symbolized by 00:23:03.460 --> 00:23:05.920 paper and fire. It's interesting, too, that a 00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:08.519 biographer also classified the song's underlying 00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:11.480 theme as libertarian, given that focus on the 00:23:11.480 --> 00:23:14.400 individual being his own worst enemy. It just 00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:17.440 shows how his deeply personal songwriting could 00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:19.940 still be interpreted through multiple political 00:23:19.940 --> 00:23:22.779 or philosophical lenses. True. And then you have 00:23:22.779 --> 00:23:25.579 the other big hit from Lonesome Jubilee, Cherry 00:23:25.579 --> 00:23:28.180 Bomb, which hit number one on the album rock 00:23:28.180 --> 00:23:30.839 tracks chart. This one is just pure nostalgia, 00:23:31.019 --> 00:23:32.680 right? Looking back at his teenage years, hanging 00:23:32.680 --> 00:23:35.339 out at the Last Exit Teen Club. Yeah, total nostalgia 00:23:35.339 --> 00:23:39.460 bomb. It's also famous, maybe infamous, for that 00:23:39.460 --> 00:23:42.200 common misinterpretation of the opening chorus 00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:44.299 line. Ah, yes, the classic Miss Heard lyric. 00:23:44.680 --> 00:23:47.519 The actual line is, that's when a sport was a 00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:50.220 sport. referring to simpler times, maybe. But 00:23:50.220 --> 00:23:52.519 it is almost universally misinterpreted by listeners 00:23:52.519 --> 00:23:55.480 as, that's when a smoke was a smoke. Which also 00:23:55.480 --> 00:23:57.559 kind of fits the nostalgic vibe, I guess. It 00:23:57.559 --> 00:24:00.039 does. Maybe that's why it sticks. And musically, 00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:02.680 Cherry Bomb really demonstrates his growing maturity 00:24:02.680 --> 00:24:05.279 as an arranger. He was taking cues, he said, 00:24:05.559 --> 00:24:08.140 from Sly and the Family Stone. Well, Mellencamp 00:24:08.140 --> 00:24:11.240 loved Sly's innovative use of multiple lead voices, 00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:13.960 that kind of vocal interplay and layering. So 00:24:13.960 --> 00:24:16.019 he deliberately structured the second verse of 00:24:16.019 --> 00:24:18.680 Cherry Bomb to share the lead vocals. It wasn't 00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:20.619 just him singing. Right, it passes the road. 00:24:21.099 --> 00:24:23.519 Exactly. It features Mellencamp, then the female 00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:25.700 backing singer Crystal Talaferro takes a line, 00:24:26.099 --> 00:24:28.400 then male band members Toby Myers and Mike Wanchik 00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:31.500 each take lines. It gives the song this really 00:24:31.500 --> 00:24:35.180 cool, textured, almost gospel -infused variety 00:24:35.180 --> 00:24:37.039 that you didn't hear much in mainstream rock 00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:39.859 then. And just like with the Scarecrow videos, 00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:42.980 the Cherry Bomb music video also carried a pretty 00:24:42.980 --> 00:24:45.980 powerful, though maybe subtle, statement. Yeah, 00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:48.180 it featured an interracial couple dancing together 00:24:48.180 --> 00:24:50.960 very intimately throughout the video. Mellencamp, 00:24:51.079 --> 00:24:53.140 having spent years playing in an interracial 00:24:53.140 --> 00:24:55.579 band himself, felt it was absolutely crucial 00:24:55.579 --> 00:24:58.569 to use that visual medium. MTV being huge then. 00:24:58.990 --> 00:25:01.130 To make a clear statement about music's power 00:25:01.130 --> 00:25:03.190 to bring different people together, regardless 00:25:03.190 --> 00:25:05.490 of skin color or background, another consistent 00:25:05.490 --> 00:25:08.309 theme. It really is. When you look back at Mellencamp's 00:25:08.309 --> 00:25:10.930 entire career arc, it just feels impossible to 00:25:10.930 --> 00:25:13.750 separate the music from the activism and also 00:25:13.750 --> 00:25:16.170 from those key collaborators who really grounded 00:25:16.170 --> 00:25:19.029 him, especially early on. We definitely have 00:25:19.029 --> 00:25:21.309 to dive a bit deeper into his partnership with 00:25:21.309 --> 00:25:24.569 George Green. Absolutely. George Green was so 00:25:24.569 --> 00:25:27.539 much more than just a collaborator. He was Mellencamp's 00:25:27.539 --> 00:25:30.220 foundational anchor in many ways, his childhood 00:25:30.220 --> 00:25:32.920 friend, literally from the same Sunday school 00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:35.519 class back in Seymour, Indiana. And Green was 00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:37.799 the co -writer on those huge early hits like 00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:40.940 Hurt So Good and Crumbling Down, but also on 00:25:40.940 --> 00:25:43.299 really important cornerstone tracks later like 00:25:43.299 --> 00:25:45.660 Rain on the Scarecrow from Scarecrow and even 00:25:45.660 --> 00:25:48.440 Key West Intermezzo, I Saw You First, much later. 00:25:48.779 --> 00:25:50.710 Right. The way their partnership often worked, 00:25:51.029 --> 00:25:52.769 according to interviews, was that Green would 00:25:52.769 --> 00:25:55.390 contribute these initial lyrical ideas, maybe 00:25:55.390 --> 00:25:57.930 some key phrases, or just observational snippets 00:25:57.930 --> 00:26:00.430 about life, and Mellencamp would then take those 00:26:00.430 --> 00:26:02.809 fragments and develop them into the full song 00:26:02.809 --> 00:26:05.329 structure and melody. So losing that specific 00:26:05.329 --> 00:26:07.069 creative partnership must have been a really 00:26:07.069 --> 00:26:09.569 seismic shift in his writing process later on. 00:26:09.809 --> 00:26:12.450 You have to assume it was. Mellencamp revealed 00:26:12.450 --> 00:26:15.230 the partnership ended sometime in the early 2000s. 00:26:15.450 --> 00:26:17.890 He cited a falling out that involved, in his 00:26:17.890 --> 00:26:20.980 words, personal problems, cross -pollinated with 00:26:20.980 --> 00:26:23.579 professional issues, which sounds complicated. 00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:26.140 Yeah, sounds messy. And that loss of a childhood 00:26:26.140 --> 00:26:28.319 friend, someone with that shared history, that 00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:31.539 grounded small town perspective, it might very 00:26:31.539 --> 00:26:34.859 well have contributed to the sometimes angrier, 00:26:35.019 --> 00:26:37.019 maybe more isolated tone you hear in some of 00:26:37.019 --> 00:26:39.200 Mellencamp's later material. It's speculation, 00:26:39.579 --> 00:26:42.049 but... plausible. And sadly, George Green later 00:26:42.049 --> 00:26:45.410 died in 2011, only 59 years old from small cell 00:26:45.410 --> 00:26:48.089 lung cancer. It just underscores the fragility 00:26:48.089 --> 00:26:50.650 of those deep decades long working relationships 00:26:50.650 --> 00:26:53.430 in music. It really does. Now, outside of his 00:26:53.430 --> 00:26:55.970 own song catalog, Mellencamp's most visible and 00:26:55.970 --> 00:26:59.430 enduring legacy is probably his activism, specifically 00:26:59.430 --> 00:27:01.440 Pharmaid. Absolutely. He's a founding member 00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:03.599 of the organization, started way back in 1985 00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:05.880 with Willie Nelson and Neil Young. The scale 00:27:05.880 --> 00:27:08.640 of that first concert was just immense, especially 00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:10.799 considering how quickly it was organized. It 00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:13.480 was a direct response to raise awareness, and 00:27:13.480 --> 00:27:16.740 crucially, funds, about the staggering loss of 00:27:16.740 --> 00:27:19.759 family farms across America due to the 1980s 00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:22.140 farm crisis. And the idea was fundamentally simple, 00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:24.890 right? keep those families on their land by providing 00:27:24.890 --> 00:27:27.210 direct financial support and resources. Exactly. 00:27:27.829 --> 00:27:30.390 And nearly 40 years later, farm aid concerts 00:27:30.390 --> 00:27:32.930 are still an annual event. The organization has 00:27:32.930 --> 00:27:36.069 raised, as of 2024, nearly 80 million dollars. 00:27:36.609 --> 00:27:38.869 That's not just a one -off benefit concert. It's 00:27:38.869 --> 00:27:41.410 become a sustained, immensely effective movement 00:27:41.410 --> 00:27:43.930 promoting the importance of a strong family farm 00:27:43.930 --> 00:27:47.480 system in America. A huge legacy. And his political 00:27:47.480 --> 00:27:50.359 consistency is also absolutely critical to understanding 00:27:50.359 --> 00:27:53.200 his whole career, his whole persona. He is a 00:27:53.200 --> 00:27:55.859 steadfast liberal, a Democratic Party supporter 00:27:55.859 --> 00:27:57.880 through and through. Which led to him taking 00:27:57.880 --> 00:28:00.619 enormous risks at times, politically. Like back 00:28:00.619 --> 00:28:02.859 in 2003, when he became one of the very first 00:28:02.859 --> 00:28:05.279 major entertainers to publicly oppose the impending 00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:07.880 invasion of Iraq. That was a deeply unpopular 00:28:07.880 --> 00:28:10.039 stance to take at that particular moment in the 00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:12.799 US. He released the song to Washington right 00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:15.279 amidst the lead up to the invasion, and he apparently 00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:18.000 attracted incredible public vitriol for it. Oh, 00:28:18.019 --> 00:28:20.720 yeah. He recounted hearing a radio caller on 00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:22.920 some show say something like, I don't know who 00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:25.660 I hate the most, John Mellencamp or Osama bin 00:28:25.660 --> 00:28:28.859 Laden. Wow. That quote alone just encapsulates 00:28:28.859 --> 00:28:31.680 the intense polarized tension his political stance 00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:34.880 generated during that post 9 -11 period. Definitely. 00:28:36.059 --> 00:28:38.359 consistency, that willingness to stick to his 00:28:38.359 --> 00:28:41.259 guns, extends to the really stringent control 00:28:41.259 --> 00:28:44.799 he maintains over how his music is used. We mentioned 00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:46.839 the cease and desist letters to John McCain and 00:28:46.839 --> 00:28:48.779 the National Organization for Marriage earlier. 00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:51.339 Right. He maintains this very clear standard. 00:28:51.799 --> 00:28:54.279 If the organization's political goals run counter 00:28:54.279 --> 00:28:57.480 to his own intent, which is largely anti -corporate, 00:28:57.539 --> 00:28:59.700 pro -working class Democrat, then they simply 00:28:59.700 --> 00:29:02.660 cannot use his material, period. Yet, on the 00:29:02.660 --> 00:29:04.960 flip side, he happily permitted his music to 00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:07.319 be used by fellow Democrat John Edwards during 00:29:07.319 --> 00:29:10.680 his campaigns. And he even performed Pink Houses, 00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:14.000 ironically enough, for Barack Obama's 2009 inauguration 00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:16.500 celebration. So he uses the power and recognition 00:29:16.500 --> 00:29:19.160 he earned from those massive hits to actively 00:29:19.160 --> 00:29:21.680 police the narrative around his songs and prevent 00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:24.779 them from being co -opted by causes he opposes. 00:29:24.940 --> 00:29:27.599 It's quite proactive. Very much so. So in more 00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:30.039 recent years, Mellencamp has sort of settled 00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:33.019 into this role of elder statesman of rock, maybe? 00:29:33.019 --> 00:29:35.099 It's fascinating to hear. how critics describe 00:29:35.099 --> 00:29:38.259 his voice now. Words like, weathered to a nub, 00:29:38.619 --> 00:29:41.299 sounding eternal, even primal. Yeah, there's 00:29:41.299 --> 00:29:44.160 a sense that age and experience, maybe all those 00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:46.480 cigarettes too, have only added to the depth, 00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:49.079 the gravitas of his vocal delivery. It carries 00:29:49.079 --> 00:29:51.309 more weight now. And he certainly commends the 00:29:51.309 --> 00:29:53.450 respect of his peers. I mean, the late great 00:29:53.450 --> 00:29:55.690 Johnny Cash himself, once called Mellencamp one 00:29:55.690 --> 00:29:58.690 of the 10 best songwriters in music, that's incredibly 00:29:58.690 --> 00:30:00.490 high praise from the man in black. Doesn't get 00:30:00.490 --> 00:30:02.990 much higher than that. And he's still creatively 00:30:02.990 --> 00:30:05.829 vibrant, still putting out really detailed, socially 00:30:05.829 --> 00:30:08.650 conscious material well into his later career. 00:30:08.829 --> 00:30:11.049 Yeah, let's look at his relatively recent work, 00:30:11.309 --> 00:30:14.130 like Orpheus Descending. That was his 25th studio 00:30:14.130 --> 00:30:17.769 album, released in June 2023. Critics generally 00:30:17.769 --> 00:30:20.130 classified it as alternative country or folk, 00:30:20.509 --> 00:30:22.410 and many specifically noted a return to that 00:30:22.410 --> 00:30:25.509 kind of crunchy, earthy roots rock sound heard 00:30:25.509 --> 00:30:28.589 on seminal albums like Big Daddy or The Lonesome 00:30:28.589 --> 00:30:30.789 Jubilee. It definitely shows that his commitment 00:30:30.789 --> 00:30:33.880 to lyrical substance hasn't waned one bit. There 00:30:33.880 --> 00:30:36.140 were two notable tracks from that album, which 00:30:36.140 --> 00:30:39.539 he actually debuted on his 2023 tour before the 00:30:39.539 --> 00:30:41.279 record came out that really showcased this. Which 00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:43.980 ones? There was the Eyes of Portland. which is 00:30:43.980 --> 00:30:47.220 this really powerful, angry diatribe against 00:30:47.220 --> 00:30:49.859 homelessness and societal neglect based on a 00:30:49.859 --> 00:30:51.819 real encounter he had. And then there's the track, 00:30:51.980 --> 00:30:54.160 Hey God, which is more of a plea or a question 00:30:54.160 --> 00:30:56.700 about suffering. So even in the 70s, he's actively 00:30:56.700 --> 00:30:59.619 grappling with contemporary social failures and 00:30:59.619 --> 00:31:02.240 big existential questions. And there was a wonderful 00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:04.420 kind of full circle moment for his collaborators 00:31:04.420 --> 00:31:06.680 on that recent album and tour, wasn't there, 00:31:06.779 --> 00:31:10.950 with Lisa Germano? Yes, Lisa Germano. the fiddle 00:31:10.950 --> 00:31:13.869 player, who was so absolutely crucial to defining 00:31:13.869 --> 00:31:16.849 that iconic lonesome jubilee sound back in the 00:31:16.849 --> 00:31:19.369 late 80s, but who had left the band way back 00:31:19.369 --> 00:31:23.269 in 1994. She returned. She came back for his 00:31:23.269 --> 00:31:26.670 2023 live and in -person tour, and she played 00:31:26.670 --> 00:31:28.789 violin on the Orpheus Descending album itself. 00:31:29.130 --> 00:31:31.349 That's fantastic. Her first studio album with 00:31:31.349 --> 00:31:35.230 him since 1993 is Human Wheels. That reconnection 00:31:35.230 --> 00:31:38.630 bridges this massive, almost 30 -year gap in 00:31:38.630 --> 00:31:41.210 his recording history with a key player. It really 00:31:41.210 --> 00:31:43.809 does. And speaking of major collaborators, we 00:31:43.809 --> 00:31:45.549 absolutely have to talk about the presence of 00:31:45.549 --> 00:31:47.309 Bruce Springsteen in his recent work as well. 00:31:47.470 --> 00:31:49.839 Right, the boss showing up. Springsteen worked 00:31:49.839 --> 00:31:52.460 on three songs on Mellencamp's preceding album, 00:31:52.779 --> 00:31:55.519 Strictly a One -Eyed Jack from 2022, including 00:31:55.519 --> 00:31:57.460 that really powerful duet they did together, 00:31:57.680 --> 00:31:59.740 Wasted Days. That collaboration, just hearing 00:31:59.740 --> 00:32:02.599 those two iconic Heartland Giants trading verses, 00:32:02.819 --> 00:32:05.119 felt like a real moment, a testament to the mutual 00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:07.160 respect they clearly share after all these years. 00:32:07.240 --> 00:32:09.579 And the connection continued on to Orpheus Descending, 00:32:09.759 --> 00:32:12.119 right? Springsteen contributed a song. He did. 00:32:12.180 --> 00:32:15.200 He provided the song Perfect World for Mellencamp 00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:18.099 to record on Orpheus Descending. That kind of 00:32:18.099 --> 00:32:20.759 pu - endorsement sharing material like that only 00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:22.779 further solidifies Mellencamp's place in the 00:32:22.779 --> 00:32:25.140 American rock pantheon and it's also proof isn't 00:32:25.140 --> 00:32:27.680 it that his specific brand of roots rock has 00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:31.220 had this enduring influence across different 00:32:31.220 --> 00:32:34.099 genres and generations you see it pop up in unexpected 00:32:34.099 --> 00:32:36.440 places oh definitely like country superstar Keith 00:32:36.440 --> 00:32:39.740 Urban for instance he has repeatedly cited Mellencamp 00:32:39.740 --> 00:32:42.660 as a absolutely critical inspiration for him 00:32:42.660 --> 00:32:45.400 urban specifically called seeing Mellencamp's 00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:47.380 lonesome Jubilee tour when it came through Australia 00:32:47.339 --> 00:32:51.640 in 1988, an epiphany. An epiphany that, in Urban's 00:32:51.640 --> 00:32:54.019 words, showed me the way to blend all these diverse 00:32:54.019 --> 00:32:57.000 influences, rock, pop, country folk, into his 00:32:57.000 --> 00:32:59.819 own distinctive country rock style. So Mellencamp 00:32:59.819 --> 00:33:02.000 really paved the way for a lot of modern country 00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:04.680 artists to integrate traditional instrumentation 00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:07.460 with harder driving rock structures. Urban's 00:33:07.460 --> 00:33:10.140 respect is totally clear. He's covered many Mellencamp 00:33:10.140 --> 00:33:13.720 songs over the years. And his own 2015 hit single, 00:33:13.880 --> 00:33:18.599 John Cougar, John Deere, John 3 .1, is obviously 00:33:18.599 --> 00:33:21.420 an explicit thematic tribute to Mellencamp's 00:33:21.420 --> 00:33:24.220 defining era and that whole small town heartland 00:33:24.220 --> 00:33:26.220 appeal. That's a great connection. And looking 00:33:26.220 --> 00:33:29.480 ahead now, Mellencamp is apparently taking his 00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:32.000 signature small town narrative to a completely 00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:34.619 new stage, literally. He's been developing a 00:33:34.619 --> 00:33:36.660 stage musical called Small Town. Yeah, based 00:33:36.660 --> 00:33:38.900 on Jack and Diane. It's planned as a jukebox 00:33:38.900 --> 00:33:41.960 musical using maybe 12 to 15 existing Mellencamp 00:33:41.960 --> 00:33:44.940 songs woven into a new story centered around 00:33:44.940 --> 00:33:47.160 two characters named, you guessed it, Jack and 00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:48.900 Diane. It feels kind of fitting, doesn't it, 00:33:48.980 --> 00:33:51.259 that the hit single, which was perhaps the ultimate 00:33:51.259 --> 00:33:53.579 artistic compromise forced on him by the record 00:33:53.579 --> 00:33:56.920 company early on, is now being repurposed, reclaimed 00:33:56.920 --> 00:34:00.359 maybe, to tell a completely new theatrical American 00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:02.839 story on his own terms. Yeah, bring it full circle 00:34:02.839 --> 00:34:05.559 again. So when we set back and look at this entire 00:34:05.559 --> 00:34:08.300 deep dive into John Mellencamp, camp, what does 00:34:08.300 --> 00:34:10.480 it ultimately reveal? What are the big takeaways? 00:34:11.340 --> 00:34:14.199 Well, we've certainly seen a songwriter who relentlessly 00:34:14.199 --> 00:34:17.699 fought corporate pressure, who had to ditch that 00:34:17.699 --> 00:34:21.079 manufactured persona of Johnny Cougar. Yeah, 00:34:21.260 --> 00:34:24.019 shedding that skin to become a true genre innovator, 00:34:24.500 --> 00:34:27.920 someone who successfully and influential fused 00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:31.239 American roots instrumentation, the fiddle. the 00:34:31.239 --> 00:34:33.119 dulcimer with the power and reach of Stadium 00:34:33.119 --> 00:34:36.019 Rock. We've also tracked his incredibly consistent 00:34:36.019 --> 00:34:38.280 political commitment, haven't we, from the subtle 00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:40.940 critique of Reagan era policies hidden inside 00:34:40.940 --> 00:34:43.579 crumbling down all the way up to his very direct 00:34:43.579 --> 00:34:45.980 commentary on homelessness decades later in the 00:34:45.980 --> 00:34:48.440 eyes of Portland. He's a true blue Democratic 00:34:48.440 --> 00:34:50.800 supporter whose activism, especially farm aid, 00:34:51.159 --> 00:34:54.440 has provided this profound, practical, real world 00:34:54.440 --> 00:34:56.800 application for his lifelong working class principles. 00:34:57.219 --> 00:34:59.590 It wasn't just talk. But I think the defining 00:34:59.590 --> 00:35:01.369 tension of his artistic life, the thing that 00:35:01.369 --> 00:35:03.269 makes him so interesting, remains that central 00:35:03.269 --> 00:35:06.070 paradox we spent time on, the legacy of Pink 00:35:06.070 --> 00:35:09.250 Houses. Definitely. We learned he deeply regretted 00:35:09.250 --> 00:35:12.309 the final verse, felt it fell short. We know 00:35:12.309 --> 00:35:15.010 he intended the entire song to be this sarcastic, 00:35:15.130 --> 00:35:18.030 cynical observation on the complexities and hypocrisies 00:35:18.030 --> 00:35:21.250 of American survival. Yeah. That very same partially 00:35:21.250 --> 00:35:23.269 compromised song is the one that has had the 00:35:23.269 --> 00:35:26.059 most complicated, the most Argued over and maybe 00:35:26.059 --> 00:35:28.480 the most enduring political life in American 00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:30.880 popular culture. It's constantly being claimed 00:35:31.099 --> 00:35:33.980 and then rejected by opposing viewpoints. It 00:35:33.980 --> 00:35:36.280 really raises a huge important question, doesn't 00:35:36.280 --> 00:35:38.659 it? One that's definitely worth mulling over 00:35:38.659 --> 00:35:41.320 long after this deep dive ends. What does it 00:35:41.320 --> 00:35:43.440 tell you about the sheer power of music or maybe 00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:46.219 about the persistent, almost unyielding hunger 00:35:46.219 --> 00:35:49.480 of the American public for simple, unifying narratives 00:35:49.480 --> 00:35:52.539 that a song intended by its own creator to be 00:35:52.539 --> 00:35:55.360 a sharp, cynical indictment can be so overwhelmingly 00:35:55.360 --> 00:35:58.179 adopted generation after generation of a genuine, 00:35:58.579 --> 00:36:01.119 uncomplicated patriotic anthem? That massive 00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:03.639 disconnect, that gap between the artist's personal 00:36:03.639 --> 00:36:05.760 intended message and the audience's collective 00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:08.099 emotional interpretation, that feels like something 00:36:08.099 --> 00:36:10.780 truly unique, maybe particularly potent in American 00:36:10.780 --> 00:36:13.219 songwriting. And it's a paradox that continues 00:36:13.219 --> 00:36:16.179 to shape, maybe confuse, our culture even today.