WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.779 Welcome to the deep dive Today we're taking a 00:00:03.779 --> 00:00:07.280 shortcut Really getting into the mind and you 00:00:07.280 --> 00:00:09.500 know the career of an actor whose filmography 00:00:09.500 --> 00:00:12.820 reads like an exercise in genre whiplash William 00:00:12.820 --> 00:00:16.679 or bill Pullman if you're looking for the blueprint 00:00:16.679 --> 00:00:19.500 on how a performer can successfully pivot between 00:00:19.500 --> 00:00:23.920 say prestige theater era -defining sci -fi really 00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:26.980 unsettling psychological thrillers and deep TV 00:00:26.980 --> 00:00:30.300 drama well This is your deep dive. Exactly. And 00:00:30.300 --> 00:00:32.000 our listener, I think, is curious about the mechanism, 00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:34.039 right? How do you get that longevity and that 00:00:34.039 --> 00:00:36.079 kind of range? Right. When you look at his work, 00:00:36.079 --> 00:00:38.820 I mean, from Lone Star and Spaceballs all the 00:00:38.820 --> 00:00:40.979 way to the complex detective Harry Ambrose in 00:00:40.979 --> 00:00:44.479 the center, or even a character in a Pulitzer 00:00:44.479 --> 00:00:47.420 Prize -winning play about, well, pretty controversial 00:00:47.420 --> 00:00:50.060 stuff. Yeah. you realize this isn't just an actor, 00:00:50.119 --> 00:00:52.159 this is kind of a chameleon, but one armed with 00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:55.179 a really serious academic foundation. And that 00:00:55.179 --> 00:00:56.679 foundation, honestly, that's the first thing 00:00:56.679 --> 00:00:59.140 that jumped out at us in the sources. It completely 00:00:59.140 --> 00:01:01.380 changes the context of his entire career, doesn't 00:01:01.380 --> 00:01:03.439 it? It really does. He didn't start professionally 00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:06.260 as a struggling actor waiting tables. He started 00:01:06.260 --> 00:01:09.420 as a professor. He actually had a career in academia 00:01:09.420 --> 00:01:12.640 before he even made his film debut in Ruthless 00:01:12.640 --> 00:01:16.819 People back in 86. Yeah. That contrast is just 00:01:16.819 --> 00:01:19.180 staggering. Professor to President Whitmore. 00:01:19.640 --> 00:01:23.400 It really provides the intellectual scaffolding 00:01:23.400 --> 00:01:25.719 for everything that came after. So let's start 00:01:25.719 --> 00:01:28.459 with the basics, what the sources tell us. Bill 00:01:28.459 --> 00:01:31.659 Pullman, born December 17, 1953, in Hornell, 00:01:31.760 --> 00:01:35.439 New York. OK. And his upbringing, interestingly, 00:01:35.799 --> 00:01:38.019 was kind of rooted in the sciences and care. 00:01:38.299 --> 00:01:41.599 His father, James Pullman Jr., was a physician. 00:01:41.680 --> 00:01:44.519 Oh, wow. And his mother, Johanna Lamina Pullman, 00:01:44.540 --> 00:01:46.859 she was a nurse. That's an interesting professional 00:01:46.859 --> 00:01:48.840 backdrop medicine, the science for someone who 00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:50.819 would eventually, you know, dedicate their life 00:01:50.819 --> 00:01:53.739 to theater. It is, yeah. But looking at his academic 00:01:53.739 --> 00:01:55.739 path, it's clear he didn't just stumble into 00:01:55.739 --> 00:01:57.599 theater. He didn't approach it lightly at all. 00:01:57.620 --> 00:02:00.480 No. Not at all. He graduated from Hornell High 00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:03.769 School in 71. Then he attended the State University 00:02:03.769 --> 00:02:07.090 of New York at Delhi, SUNY. Then got his Bachelor 00:02:07.090 --> 00:02:10.150 of Arts degree in theater studies from SUNY Oneonta 00:02:10.150 --> 00:02:13.469 in 1975. Right. But he committed even further. 00:02:13.770 --> 00:02:16.210 He earned his Master of Fine Arts degree, an 00:02:16.210 --> 00:02:18.569 MFA from the University of Massachusetts Amherst 00:02:18.569 --> 00:02:22.349 in 1980. Okay, an MFA. That's a terminal degree 00:02:22.349 --> 00:02:24.169 in the arts, right? It's not just a certificate. 00:02:24.349 --> 00:02:27.310 Exactly. It really prepares you for teachings, 00:02:27.590 --> 00:02:31.620 for pedagogy, and like... deep theoretical understanding 00:02:31.620 --> 00:02:34.800 of the craft. It means he spent, what, five years 00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:37.919 post undergrad just intensely studying the craft, 00:02:37.939 --> 00:02:41.259 the text, the technical side of drama. How do 00:02:41.259 --> 00:02:43.699 you think that rigorous background informs his 00:02:43.699 --> 00:02:46.199 approach to a role? Say compared to an actor 00:02:46.199 --> 00:02:48.580 who just came up purely through auditions. Well, 00:02:48.580 --> 00:02:50.460 I think it creates a real commitment to text 00:02:50.460 --> 00:02:53.240 and structure. A classically trained actor, especially 00:02:53.240 --> 00:02:55.939 with an MFA, often understands the anatomy of 00:02:55.939 --> 00:02:58.500 a play or a screenplay in a way that lets them 00:02:58.500 --> 00:03:01.680 move between genres almost seamlessly, they get 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:04.180 why the comedy works or how the structure of 00:03:04.180 --> 00:03:06.780 a tragedy is built. What's the mechanics? Exactly, 00:03:06.900 --> 00:03:08.900 the mechanics. He wasn't just learning lines. 00:03:08.939 --> 00:03:12.039 He was learning dramatic mechanics. It's a different 00:03:12.039 --> 00:03:15.180 level of engagement, I think. And he immediately 00:03:15.180 --> 00:03:17.060 put that education to use, didn't he, back in 00:03:17.060 --> 00:03:20.219 the classroom? He did. He taught theater at SUNY 00:03:20.219 --> 00:03:22.539 Delhi. And then critically, he was an adjunct 00:03:22.539 --> 00:03:24.639 professor at Montana State University School 00:03:24.639 --> 00:03:28.159 of Film and Photography. That's in Bozeman, Montana. 00:03:28.539 --> 00:03:31.599 And this wasn't just like a brief stint, right? 00:03:31.740 --> 00:03:33.599 The sources suggest he was pretty established 00:03:33.599 --> 00:03:35.939 in a teaching career. Yeah, that seems to be 00:03:35.939 --> 00:03:38.580 his initial professional identity. He was grading 00:03:38.580 --> 00:03:41.259 papers, leading workshops, probably directing 00:03:41.259 --> 00:03:44.479 student productions. And here is where the story 00:03:44.479 --> 00:03:47.039 takes that wonderful pivot right there in Bozeman. 00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:49.819 The key anecdote, the one that keeps coming up, 00:03:50.419 --> 00:03:52.939 is that his own students at MSU... They were 00:03:52.939 --> 00:03:55.120 the ones who persuaded him that his talent needed 00:03:55.120 --> 00:03:58.159 a wider stage. They convinced him to pursue film 00:03:58.159 --> 00:04:00.900 roles. This would have been mid -1980s. Wow. 00:04:01.080 --> 00:04:03.120 Imagine that confidence boost. The people you're 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:05.219 instructing are basically saying, no, you're 00:04:05.219 --> 00:04:07.000 the one who should be out there doing this. Right. 00:04:07.159 --> 00:04:09.879 That's the real aha moment, isn't it, that launches 00:04:09.879 --> 00:04:12.800 the career we know. It really suggests there 00:04:12.800 --> 00:04:15.360 was something magnetic, undeniable about his 00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:17.120 presence, even just standing in front of a whiteboard. 00:04:17.360 --> 00:04:19.939 Absolutely. And that encouragement, it seems, 00:04:20.360 --> 00:04:24.019 acted as the final push, out of academia, back 00:04:24.019 --> 00:04:26.240 into performance full -time. So he makes the 00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:28.519 decision. Yeah. And once he made that decision 00:04:28.519 --> 00:04:32.500 in the 80s, the sources show he focused on working 00:04:32.500 --> 00:04:34.480 with theater companies, first in New York, then 00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:36.680 Los Angeles. OK, so back to the stage first. 00:04:36.860 --> 00:04:38.959 Right. Which kind of proves he respected the 00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:41.360 craft enough to return to basics, right? Yeah. 00:04:41.360 --> 00:04:43.459 Boning that stage technique before jumping straight 00:04:43.459 --> 00:04:46.259 into the commercial world of film. It's the perfect, 00:04:46.259 --> 00:04:50.120 like, slow burn start. He spent basically a decade 00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:52.420 building up that intellectual and performance 00:04:52.420 --> 00:04:54.680 muscle before Hollywood even really knew his 00:04:54.680 --> 00:04:58.029 name. And that preparation, it just set him up 00:04:58.029 --> 00:05:01.310 perfectly for what turned out to be a truly chaotic 00:05:01.310 --> 00:05:04.949 but brilliant decade of versatility, the 1990s. 00:05:05.009 --> 00:05:07.029 Yeah, the 90s were huge for him. His film debut 00:05:07.029 --> 00:05:09.089 itself was pretty striking, Roofless People in 00:05:09.089 --> 00:05:12.610 1986, and he was immediately alongside heavy 00:05:12.610 --> 00:05:16.009 hitters. Danny DeVito, Bette Midler, he played 00:05:16.009 --> 00:05:18.399 Earl Mott. Yeah, I remember that. It showed he 00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:20.379 could absolutely hold his own in high -stakes 00:05:20.379 --> 00:05:22.259 comedy right out of the gate. And he didn't waste 00:05:22.259 --> 00:05:24.420 any time moving into a leading role, did he? 00:05:24.620 --> 00:05:28.220 Not at all. Just one year later, 1987, he's lone 00:05:28.220 --> 00:05:32.399 star in Mel Brooks's magnificent sci -fi parody, 00:05:32.819 --> 00:05:35.819 Spaceballs. Oh, Spaceballs, a classic. Absolute 00:05:35.819 --> 00:05:37.860 classic. And it's a cultural touchstone now, 00:05:37.879 --> 00:05:41.050 but... It required him to be the perfect straight 00:05:41.050 --> 00:05:43.930 man, didn't it? Totally. The classic heroic archetype, 00:05:43.949 --> 00:05:46.430 but who's also completely absurd because of the 00:05:46.430 --> 00:05:48.430 world around him. He's the foundation, really, 00:05:48.430 --> 00:05:50.649 that makes all the Mel Brooks insanity work. 00:05:50.810 --> 00:05:53.470 He anchors it. He anchors it. And this is where 00:05:53.470 --> 00:05:55.850 his range immediately becomes evident, because 00:05:55.850 --> 00:05:59.170 the very next year, 1988, he's in The Accidental 00:05:59.170 --> 00:06:02.470 Tourist. Sensitive drama. Right. And The Serpent 00:06:02.470 --> 00:06:05.269 in the Rainbow, which is a chilling horror film 00:06:05.269 --> 00:06:08.089 directed by Wes Craven with Zeke Smoky. OK, hold 00:06:08.089 --> 00:06:10.319 on. We're talking about a performer who can pivot 00:06:10.319 --> 00:06:15.459 from spoofing Han Solo to a serious voodoo -fueled 00:06:15.459 --> 00:06:19.040 horror film in less than a year. That's Pullman. 00:06:20.379 --> 00:06:23.600 That genre jumping, that really became the engine 00:06:23.600 --> 00:06:25.980 of his 1990s career. You see it everywhere. Like 00:06:25.980 --> 00:06:29.379 what? Well, early 90s. He's Brian Denton, the 00:06:29.379 --> 00:06:31.639 kindhearted journalist in Newsies in 92. OK, 00:06:31.740 --> 00:06:34.579 the musical. Yeah. And then Bob Hinson in the 00:06:34.579 --> 00:06:37.259 beloved baseball classic, A League of Their Own, 00:06:37.439 --> 00:06:40.339 same year, 92. Right, opposite Gina Davis. Mm 00:06:40.339 --> 00:06:43.699 -hmm. And he wasn't afraid to be part of an ensemble 00:06:43.699 --> 00:06:47.160 often supporting A -list talent. which I think 00:06:47.160 --> 00:06:50.420 speaks to maybe his humility or dedication to 00:06:50.420 --> 00:06:53.699 good projects over just pure ego. Yeah, that 00:06:53.699 --> 00:06:56.300 makes sense. Then came that streak where he really 00:06:56.300 --> 00:06:58.819 kind of defined the role of the sympathetic romantic 00:06:58.819 --> 00:07:01.519 foil, didn't he? Oh, yeah. He was Walter Jackson 00:07:01.519 --> 00:07:04.379 in Sleepless in Seattle in 93, the guy Meg Ryan's 00:07:04.379 --> 00:07:06.079 engaged to. Putologist. That's him. Yeah. And 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:08.839 then critically, he was Jack Callahan in While 00:07:08.839 --> 00:07:11.100 You Were Sleeping in 95, opposite Sandra Bullock. 00:07:11.439 --> 00:07:14.500 Ah, yes, the other brother. Exactly. He had this 00:07:14.500 --> 00:07:17.829 niche and he really... He played the dependable, 00:07:18.029 --> 00:07:19.949 maybe slightly wounded, but totally charming 00:07:19.949 --> 00:07:21.769 guy you were rooting for. Ah, even though you 00:07:21.769 --> 00:07:24.290 kind of knew Meg Ryan or Sandra Bullock is probably 00:07:24.290 --> 00:07:26.170 going to end up with the other lead, Tom Hanks, 00:07:26.230 --> 00:07:28.149 or Bill Pullman's character's brother. Right, 00:07:28.149 --> 00:07:30.550 right. But he carried the emotional weight of 00:07:30.550 --> 00:07:32.550 those romantic comedies, in a way. He really 00:07:32.550 --> 00:07:35.389 did. And that ability to convey accessibility, 00:07:35.750 --> 00:07:38.089 that inherent goodness, it set him up perfectly 00:07:38.089 --> 00:07:40.970 for the family market, too. He played Dr. James 00:07:40.970 --> 00:07:44.069 Harvey in Casper in 1995. Oh, yeah, the ghost 00:07:44.069 --> 00:07:46.389 therapist. Yeah, the successful family fantasy 00:07:46.389 --> 00:07:48.790 film. So he'd basically mastered the mainstream 00:07:48.790 --> 00:07:53.769 by the mid -90s. OK. And then came 1996, the 00:07:53.769 --> 00:07:56.850 role that just cemented his face in the global 00:07:56.850 --> 00:08:00.149 consciousness forever, President Thomas J. Whitmore 00:08:00.149 --> 00:08:03.009 in Independence Day. Boom. Yeah. That role is 00:08:03.009 --> 00:08:05.920 just. It's a master class in aspirational political 00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:08.120 leadership on screen. Isn't it though? It's the 00:08:08.120 --> 00:08:10.420 highest expression maybe of the American heroic 00:08:10.420 --> 00:08:13.199 ideal. A leader who not only gives that incredible 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:15.480 speech, but also puts on a flight suit and goes 00:08:15.480 --> 00:08:17.959 into battle. Today we celebrate our Independence 00:08:17.959 --> 00:08:22.220 Day. Chills. Still gives me chills. Me too. And 00:08:22.220 --> 00:08:25.399 that character, he provided this crucial moral 00:08:25.399 --> 00:08:29.240 anchor for a massive, massive blockbuster. It's 00:08:29.240 --> 00:08:31.519 really no surprise he got an OFTA nomination 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:34.340 for best sci -fi fantasy horror actor for that 00:08:34.340 --> 00:08:36.740 96th performance. Definitely deserved. It just 00:08:36.740 --> 00:08:39.100 transcended the genre, didn't it? It became cultural 00:08:39.100 --> 00:08:41.820 shorthand for rallying bravery for leadership. 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:43.720 OK, so here's the really interesting part for 00:08:43.720 --> 00:08:46.399 me and where we should maybe slow down the analysis 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:48.899 a bit. OK. He's reached that pinnacle, right? 00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:52.659 Global recognition, huge commercial success with 00:08:52.659 --> 00:08:54.740 Independence Day. Most actors would probably 00:08:54.740 --> 00:08:57.320 chase the sequel or the next biggest paycheck. 00:08:57.480 --> 00:09:00.320 Sure, that's the usual path. But Pullman pivots, 00:09:00.759 --> 00:09:03.919 like 180 degrees. He goes straight to work with 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:06.159 David Lynch on the highly surreal, definitely 00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:09.399 non -commercial masterpiece Lost Highway in 1997. 00:09:09.659 --> 00:09:12.000 He plays the tormented musician Fred Madison. 00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:14.820 It's a stunning career choice, isn't it? Almost 00:09:14.820 --> 00:09:16.759 like a deliberate artistic counterstatement. 00:09:16.779 --> 00:09:19.279 Totally. Think about it. The emotional and intellectual 00:09:19.279 --> 00:09:21.279 demands of playing President Whitmore, where 00:09:21.279 --> 00:09:23.460 everything is externalized, it's clear, it's 00:09:23.460 --> 00:09:26.080 heroic. That's the complete inverse of playing 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:29.080 Fred Madison, where everything is internal, it's 00:09:29.080 --> 00:09:32.779 fractured, it's based on surreal, unreliable 00:09:32.779 --> 00:09:36.240 perception. And Lynch demands so much from an 00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:38.360 actor, doesn't he? You have to commit totally 00:09:38.360 --> 00:09:40.700 to that psychological labyrinth, even when the 00:09:40.700 --> 00:09:43.590 narrative makes, well, no conventional sense 00:09:43.590 --> 00:09:45.990 half the time. Exactly. To go from the most famous, 00:09:46.269 --> 00:09:48.929 maybe most accessible role in the world to Fred 00:09:48.929 --> 00:09:51.529 Madison, a guy who may or may not have murdered 00:09:51.529 --> 00:09:54.669 his wife, whose whole reality is just disintegrating. 00:09:54.750 --> 00:09:58.169 Mm -hmm. It shows a kind of total disregard for 00:09:58.169 --> 00:10:00.730 maintaining a bankable public image. Mm -hmm. 00:10:00.970 --> 00:10:03.269 Or maybe just a stronger desire for the artistic 00:10:03.269 --> 00:10:05.789 challenge. I think the latter. It proved that 00:10:05.789 --> 00:10:08.669 his MFA commitment, that academic rigor, it was 00:10:08.669 --> 00:10:10.629 real. He wasn't just chasing fame. He was chasing 00:10:10.629 --> 00:10:12.769 the most challenging text available, the most 00:10:12.769 --> 00:10:15.330 interesting directors. Yeah. This decision, for 00:10:15.330 --> 00:10:18.090 me, truly defines him as an actor who's dedicated 00:10:18.090 --> 00:10:20.570 to the art form over just the commercial outcome. 00:10:20.730 --> 00:10:22.509 And he kept balancing these extremes, didn't 00:10:22.509 --> 00:10:24.889 he? Yeah, he did. He starred as the lead detective, 00:10:25.090 --> 00:10:27.830 Daryl Zero, in that clever, quirky noir comedy 00:10:27.830 --> 00:10:31.620 Zero Effect in 98. Oh, I love Zero Effect. Underrated. 00:10:31.779 --> 00:10:34.039 Totally underrated. And then he closes the century 00:10:34.039 --> 00:10:37.340 with a more standard creature -future Lake Placid 00:10:37.340 --> 00:10:39.940 in 1999. Right. Fighting the giant crocodile. 00:10:40.120 --> 00:10:42.799 Yeah. He could just shift gears faster than a 00:10:42.799 --> 00:10:45.360 Formula One racer. It's incredible. So he had 00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:47.360 essentially done it all on screen by the end 00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:51.940 of the 90s. Romantic lead, check. Comedic hero, 00:10:52.539 --> 00:10:56.299 check. Action star president, check. Surrealist 00:10:56.299 --> 00:10:59.210 nightmare fuel. Check. Pretty much, yeah. So 00:10:59.210 --> 00:11:01.950 where does a versatile actor like that go next 00:11:01.950 --> 00:11:04.269 when you've hit all those screen genres? Well, 00:11:04.309 --> 00:11:06.370 he goes back to the beginning, in a way. Back 00:11:06.370 --> 00:11:09.049 to the stage, which is where that academic training 00:11:09.049 --> 00:11:11.990 we talked about really, really shines. That's 00:11:11.990 --> 00:11:14.389 right. As we move into the 21st century, his 00:11:14.389 --> 00:11:16.809 stage career stops being just like a footnote 00:11:16.809 --> 00:11:18.990 and becomes a major highlight, totally equal 00:11:18.990 --> 00:11:20.889 to his screen work. Absolutely. And we have to 00:11:20.889 --> 00:11:22.750 talk about his collaboration with Edward Albee. 00:11:23.309 --> 00:11:25.870 Especially his starring role in The Goat, or 00:11:25.870 --> 00:11:28.870 Who is Sylvia, on Broadway in 2002. Okay, yeah. 00:11:29.190 --> 00:11:30.830 We mentioned the awards earlier, Tony, for Best 00:11:30.830 --> 00:11:33.210 Play, Pulitzer for Drama. Huge awards. But the 00:11:33.210 --> 00:11:35.049 awards don't even tell the whole story here, 00:11:35.149 --> 00:11:37.110 do they? Yeah. This play isn't just critically 00:11:37.110 --> 00:11:40.769 demanding, it's thematically explosive. That's 00:11:40.769 --> 00:11:43.230 a good word for it. Pullman starred as Martin. 00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:46.659 this successful architect who confesses to his 00:11:46.659 --> 00:11:49.779 wife, played by the amazing Mercedes Roll, that 00:11:49.779 --> 00:11:52.500 he has fallen in love with and is having an affair 00:11:52.500 --> 00:11:55.840 with a goat. I mean, wow, that's where you see 00:11:55.840 --> 00:11:58.059 true intellectual bravery, right? Absolutely. 00:11:58.620 --> 00:12:01.740 To stand on a Broadway stage night after night 00:12:01.740 --> 00:12:04.899 dealing with themes of. bestiality, betrayal, 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:07.980 the complete collapse of a family. That takes 00:12:07.980 --> 00:12:11.080 immense technical skill, sure, but also incredible 00:12:11.080 --> 00:12:13.159 emotional fortitude. Yeah, this is definitely 00:12:13.159 --> 00:12:15.360 not the charming Jack Callahan from While You 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:18.039 Were Sleeping. Not even close. This role demanded 00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:21.100 he confront one of the last remaining major social 00:12:21.100 --> 00:12:23.220 taboos right there in front of a live audience, 00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:26.379 eight shows a week. And the risk paid off, artistically 00:12:26.379 --> 00:12:29.519 speaking. The play itself won the Tony, the Drama 00:12:29.519 --> 00:12:32.580 Desk, the Pulitzer Prize for Drama. And his performance 00:12:32.580 --> 00:12:35.440 as Martin, the central tormented figure, earned 00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:38.059 him that Drama Desk Award nomination for Outstanding 00:12:38.059 --> 00:12:40.539 Actor in a Play. That's top tier recognition. 00:12:40.539 --> 00:12:44.639 Yeah. Achieved through pure unadulterated commitment 00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:48.070 to really challenging, difficult drama. And he 00:12:48.070 --> 00:12:50.629 clearly thrived on Albie's challenging, often 00:12:50.629 --> 00:12:53.389 non -naturalistic dialogue, because he returned 00:12:53.389 --> 00:12:55.429 to Albie's work later, appearing in Peter and 00:12:55.429 --> 00:12:58.210 Jerry Off -Broadway in 2007. Right, and got another 00:12:58.210 --> 00:12:59.889 Drama Desk nomination for that one too, didn't 00:12:59.889 --> 00:13:02.470 he? It did, yeah, his second. And he also tackled 00:13:02.470 --> 00:13:05.210 David Mamet's notoriously intense two -person 00:13:05.210 --> 00:13:09.409 drama, Oleana, in 2009. He starred opposite Julia 00:13:09.409 --> 00:13:13.009 Stiles. Oh, Oleana, that play is brutal. About 00:13:13.009 --> 00:13:15.269 the power dynamics between a professor and a 00:13:15.269 --> 00:13:17.320 student. Yeah, it's the ultimate action. workout, 00:13:17.679 --> 00:13:19.700 really. Mamet's rhythmic dialogue, the intense 00:13:19.700 --> 00:13:22.840 verbal sparring, it's relentless. And even though 00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:24.580 that run was relatively short, I think it closed 00:13:24.580 --> 00:13:27.740 after about 65 performances. It still demonstrated 00:13:27.740 --> 00:13:30.580 his consistent desire to tackle the hardest material 00:13:30.580 --> 00:13:32.960 American theater has to offer. He keeps going 00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:35.679 back to the big guns. He does. And years later, 00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:37.960 he was starring in Arthur Miller's classic tragedy 00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:40.720 All My Sons at the Old Vic Theater in London 00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:43.379 in 2019. He constantly returns to the source 00:13:43.379 --> 00:13:45.659 material, to the great drama. It's impressive. 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:49.240 His commitment to the craft isn't just limited 00:13:49.240 --> 00:13:52.779 to acting, is it? The sources also highlight 00:13:52.779 --> 00:13:55.840 his work as a creative writer and even a director. 00:13:56.240 --> 00:13:59.700 That's right. It reveals this comprehensive artistic 00:13:59.700 --> 00:14:03.580 curiosity he has. Tucked in among his early 2000s 00:14:03.580 --> 00:14:06.580 work is the TV film The Virginian from 2000, 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:09.759 which he not only starred in, but also directed 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:13.360 and produced. And it won a Western Heritage Award. 00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:16.159 So he clearly has an affinity for that genre 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:18.259 too. Yeah, the Montana connection probably helps 00:14:18.259 --> 00:14:20.620 there. Probably does. But the most fascinating 00:14:20.620 --> 00:14:22.919 piece of his writing portfolio, for me anyway, 00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:25.620 is his play, Exhibition Six. It premiered in 00:14:25.620 --> 00:14:28.320 San Francisco back in 2007. And this connects 00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:30.539 back to his sci -fi and drama interests in a 00:14:30.539 --> 00:14:32.320 really unique way, right? In a very unique way. 00:14:32.460 --> 00:14:34.799 The subject matter is a really high concept, 00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:37.659 but also intensely dramatic. It's based on the 00:14:37.659 --> 00:14:40.000 real life International Space Station mission, 00:14:40.179 --> 00:14:42.039 Expedition Six. OK, I remember this. The source 00:14:42.039 --> 00:14:44.159 is concerned the crew was actually in orbit when 00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:46.419 the space shuttle Columbia was tragically destroyed 00:14:46.419 --> 00:14:49.600 during reentry in February 2003. Exactly. And 00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:52.000 that disaster grounded the entire U .S. space 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:54.320 shuttle program for a while, which meant the 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:56.580 ISS crew, who were expecting to rotate out and 00:14:56.580 --> 00:14:58.980 come home, soon, they were forced to stay on 00:14:58.980 --> 00:15:01.799 the station for an extra two months. Stranded, 00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:04.399 essentially. Pretty much. Until a Russian Soyuz 00:15:04.399 --> 00:15:06.440 transport could be arranged to bring them home. 00:15:06.860 --> 00:15:09.419 His play examines that immense psychological 00:15:09.419 --> 00:15:12.440 strain, the isolation of a crew stranded above 00:15:12.440 --> 00:15:15.019 the world, contemplating their reliance on, you 00:15:15.019 --> 00:15:17.799 know, former rivals, the Russians, and their 00:15:17.799 --> 00:15:20.539 own mortality after witnessing such a profound 00:15:20.539 --> 00:15:23.679 tragedy from space. Wow. That tells you a lot 00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:25.679 about his mind, doesn't it? That he operates 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:28.590 on these two levels as a performer embodying 00:15:28.590 --> 00:15:31.450 characters and as a storyteller drawn to these 00:15:31.450 --> 00:15:34.409 real -life crises that test the absolute limits 00:15:34.409 --> 00:15:37.389 of human endurance. It really does and it also 00:15:37.389 --> 00:15:39.809 kind of explains his dedication to fostering 00:15:39.809 --> 00:15:41.870 new talent. The sources mention he serves as 00:15:41.870 --> 00:15:44.389 a jury member for Filmaka. What's Filmaka? It's 00:15:44.389 --> 00:15:46.450 a platform that supports undiscovered filmmakers 00:15:46.450 --> 00:15:48.889 so in a way he's paying forward the encouragement 00:15:48.889 --> 00:15:51.309 his own students gave him all those years ago. 00:15:51.450 --> 00:15:54.070 That's a nice full circle element. Okay now let's 00:15:54.070 --> 00:15:57.009 pivot to his television dominance in the 2010s. 00:15:57.330 --> 00:15:59.629 Because this is where that dark undercurrent 00:15:59.629 --> 00:16:02.110 may be informed by his academic background and 00:16:02.110 --> 00:16:04.610 stage work really came to the fore. Yeah, he 00:16:04.610 --> 00:16:07.549 definitely traded the romantic comedy mantle 00:16:07.549 --> 00:16:11.009 for the deeply complex, often morally ambiguous 00:16:11.009 --> 00:16:13.570 anti -hero on TV. And the initial shock, I think, 00:16:13.649 --> 00:16:16.090 for a lot of people came with Torchwood. Miracle 00:16:16.090 --> 00:16:19.570 day in 2011. Oh, yeah. He played Oswald Danes, 00:16:19.809 --> 00:16:22.849 a convicted pedophile and child killer. across 00:16:22.849 --> 00:16:25.870 eight episodes. I mean, that is a direct, jarring 00:16:25.870 --> 00:16:27.830 break from his public persona up to that point. 00:16:28.070 --> 00:16:30.889 Completely. To take on a character of such just 00:16:30.889 --> 00:16:34.149 moral repugnance, especially after years of playing 00:16:34.149 --> 00:16:37.549 the good guy or the romantic lead, it requires 00:16:37.549 --> 00:16:39.490 a total professional reset, doesn't it? It's 00:16:39.490 --> 00:16:41.370 a risk. It could alienate a whole fan base. It 00:16:41.370 --> 00:16:43.409 was absolutely a conscious choice, I think, to 00:16:43.409 --> 00:16:45.389 demonstrate that incredible range. And you know 00:16:45.389 --> 00:16:47.850 what? It worked. That performance was widely 00:16:47.850 --> 00:16:50.570 acclaimed. It earned him a Saturn Award nomination 00:16:50.570 --> 00:16:53.529 for best supporting actor on television. It proved 00:16:53.529 --> 00:16:56.549 he could inhabit the grotesque, the truly disturbing 00:16:56.549 --> 00:16:59.350 with conviction and subtlety without falling 00:16:59.350 --> 00:17:01.789 into caricature. And in true Pullman fashion, 00:17:02.070 --> 00:17:04.190 the whiplash continued. Of course it did. He 00:17:04.190 --> 00:17:06.490 immediately went from playing a convicted child 00:17:06.490 --> 00:17:08.670 killer to returning to the role of the president. 00:17:08.890 --> 00:17:11.450 Yep. Though, admittedly, in a very different 00:17:11.450 --> 00:17:14.369 tone. This was President Dale Gilchrist in the 00:17:14.369 --> 00:17:18.390 comedy series 1600 Pen that ran from 2012 to 00:17:18.390 --> 00:17:21.329 2013. Only Bill Pullman could navigate that kind 00:17:21.329 --> 00:17:23.730 of tonal chasm without giving the audience psychological 00:17:23.730 --> 00:17:26.170 vertigo. It's amazing. It really is. But the 00:17:26.170 --> 00:17:29.009 defining TV role of his recent career, I think 00:17:29.009 --> 00:17:31.869 we agree, has to be Detective Harry Ambrose in 00:17:31.869 --> 00:17:34.230 the USA Network mystery series, The Sinner. Oh, 00:17:34.250 --> 00:17:35.950 absolutely. Four seasons, right? Four seasons, 00:17:36.069 --> 00:17:38.549 yeah. And this is where all the threads of his 00:17:38.549 --> 00:17:41.609 career seem to converge. The rigorous textual 00:17:41.609 --> 00:17:44.690 analysis from his academic background, the quiet 00:17:44.690 --> 00:17:47.730 intensity honed on stage, and that ability to 00:17:47.730 --> 00:17:50.630 portray profound internal trauma we saw glimpses 00:17:50.630 --> 00:17:52.809 of even in his earlier work. Yeah, Detective 00:17:52.809 --> 00:17:55.920 Ambrose is just... defined by his quietness, 00:17:55.960 --> 00:17:59.400 isn't he? His relentless pursuit of the why behind 00:17:59.400 --> 00:18:01.839 the crime, not just the who or the how. Exactly. 00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:04.519 And his own barely contained emotional damage, 00:18:04.660 --> 00:18:07.339 which unfolds across the seasons. The role is 00:18:07.339 --> 00:18:09.359 so much less about action and much more about 00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:12.480 subtle reactions, psychological excavation, both 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:14.920 of the suspect and himself. It's the perfect 00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:17.279 maturation maybe of his subtle acting style. 00:18:17.799 --> 00:18:20.140 We're watching him absorb and process trauma. 00:18:20.329 --> 00:18:23.009 rather than just solving a puzzle like a typical 00:18:23.009 --> 00:18:25.690 TV detective. And that highly nuanced approach. 00:18:25.900 --> 00:18:28.960 garnered him multiple nominations. Critics' Choice 00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:31.680 Television Awards, Screen Actors Guild Awards, 00:18:31.799 --> 00:18:34.359 another Saturn nomination. Rightfully so. The 00:18:34.359 --> 00:18:37.140 ability to anchor such a complex, character -driven 00:18:37.140 --> 00:18:39.779 mystery across four seasons is just a testament 00:18:39.779 --> 00:18:42.039 to the depth of preparation and thought he brings 00:18:42.039 --> 00:18:43.880 to every part. And he continues to challenge 00:18:43.880 --> 00:18:46.079 himself with high -profile, demanding material. 00:18:46.380 --> 00:18:48.759 Most recently, playing the convicted South Carolina 00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:51.819 attorney Alex Murdaugh in the 2023 two -part 00:18:51.819 --> 00:18:55.039 Lifetime series, Murdaugh Murders. The movie. 00:18:55.380 --> 00:18:58.460 Right. Another one Rick from the headlines. Again, 00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:01.339 tackling a really complex, morally ambiguous 00:19:01.339 --> 00:19:04.180 figure who dominated the news cycle. Demanding 00:19:04.180 --> 00:19:06.859 a performance that felt both familiar because 00:19:06.859 --> 00:19:09.920 we saw so much of the real guy, but also deeply 00:19:09.920 --> 00:19:12.359 unsettling. He never seems to pick the easy route, 00:19:12.500 --> 00:19:15.420 does he? Never. So we've tracked the academic 00:19:15.420 --> 00:19:17.900 rigor, the massive professional versatility, 00:19:18.460 --> 00:19:20.720 the artistic commitment to stage and screen. 00:19:21.289 --> 00:19:24.190 But who is the man balancing all these extremes? 00:19:24.609 --> 00:19:26.549 Yeah, the sources give us some great insight 00:19:26.549 --> 00:19:29.210 into the anchors in his life, his family, his 00:19:29.210 --> 00:19:31.349 ranch, and also a surprising physical challenge 00:19:31.349 --> 00:19:33.450 you overcame early on. Let's start with family. 00:19:33.849 --> 00:19:36.150 His family life seems deeply rooted in the arts 00:19:36.150 --> 00:19:38.450 as well. He's married to Tamara Hurwitz, who 00:19:38.450 --> 00:19:41.250 is a modern dancer, and they've successfully 00:19:41.250 --> 00:19:43.609 passed that creative baton to their three children. 00:19:44.009 --> 00:19:47.019 Louis Pullman, their son. is also a rapidly rising 00:19:47.019 --> 00:19:49.500 actor doing great work. He really is. Their daughter, 00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:51.839 Misa Pullman, is a singer -songwriter. And they 00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:54.160 also have another son, Jack. It sounds like an 00:19:54.160 --> 00:19:56.140 environment just steeped in performance and creative 00:19:56.140 --> 00:19:59.140 expression. It's pretty rare, actually, to see 00:19:59.140 --> 00:20:02.259 that level of multi -generational success in 00:20:02.259 --> 00:20:05.240 the arts. It really suggests their home environment 00:20:05.240 --> 00:20:07.900 must foster a kind of disciplined creativity. 00:20:08.579 --> 00:20:10.420 Yeah. But let's talk about something else the 00:20:10.420 --> 00:20:12.740 source has mentioned, a detail that's often overlooked. 00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:15.859 but might be critical to understanding his physical 00:20:15.859 --> 00:20:19.269 performance style. Okay. There's a unique biographical 00:20:19.269 --> 00:20:22.089 detail about an injury he sustained when he was 00:20:22.089 --> 00:20:26.049 just 21. Ah, right. The sources confirm he suffered 00:20:26.049 --> 00:20:28.670 a pretty severe head injury. It was from a fall 00:20:28.670 --> 00:20:31.269 during a play rehearsal. Yeah. And the lasting 00:20:31.269 --> 00:20:33.930 physical consequence was the loss of his sense 00:20:33.930 --> 00:20:36.490 of smell. He lost it. And also the loss of feeling 00:20:36.490 --> 00:20:39.009 in his left elbow. Now, that kind of physical 00:20:39.009 --> 00:20:41.569 impairment, especially losing a major sense like 00:20:41.569 --> 00:20:44.390 smell, it kind of forces a performer to rely 00:20:44.390 --> 00:20:46.910 more heavily on other things, right? Visual cues. 00:20:46.890 --> 00:20:49.630 nonverbal communication. That's an interesting 00:20:49.630 --> 00:20:51.809 thought. It's an intellectual challenge, in a 00:20:51.809 --> 00:20:54.410 way, that might have subtly contributed to the 00:20:54.410 --> 00:20:57.369 intense internalized nature of roles like Detective 00:20:57.369 --> 00:21:00.930 Ambrose, who relies so much on acute observation 00:21:00.930 --> 00:21:03.789 of others. And you could also speculate, maybe, 00:21:04.089 --> 00:21:07.349 that surviving that kind of physical trauma so 00:21:07.349 --> 00:21:10.029 young, perhaps, fed into the determination, the 00:21:10.029 --> 00:21:13.130 resilience required to excel in the really demanding 00:21:13.130 --> 00:21:15.069 world of acting. It definitely speaks to his 00:21:15.069 --> 00:21:17.710 resilience, yeah. And speaking of grounding forces, 00:21:17.970 --> 00:21:20.910 we absolutely have to discuss his dual life out 00:21:20.910 --> 00:21:23.950 in the American West. Ah, the ranch. Right. He 00:21:23.950 --> 00:21:26.569 co -owns a cattle ranch with his brother in Montana 00:21:26.569 --> 00:21:29.250 near a town called Whitehall, and he lives there 00:21:29.250 --> 00:21:31.390 part -time. That Montana connection, it traces 00:21:31.390 --> 00:21:33.650 all the way back to his adjunct professor days 00:21:33.650 --> 00:21:35.890 at Montana State University, doesn't it? It seems 00:21:35.890 --> 00:21:38.670 vital to him. How do you think ranching, which 00:21:38.670 --> 00:21:40.970 is, you know, physically demanding, it's analog, 00:21:41.150 --> 00:21:44.670 it's seasonal, How does that act as an antidote 00:21:44.670 --> 00:21:47.849 to the high pressure, often artificial world 00:21:47.849 --> 00:21:49.950 of Hollywood sets? Oh, it has to be an essential 00:21:49.950 --> 00:21:52.769 counterbalance. I mean, imagine spending months 00:21:52.769 --> 00:21:55.049 inhabiting the mind of a character like Alex 00:21:55.049 --> 00:21:58.069 Murdoch or the deeply troubled Fred Madison in 00:21:58.069 --> 00:22:00.809 Lost Highway. Yeah, intense. You need some radical 00:22:00.809 --> 00:22:03.890 external force to pull you back to reality, right? 00:22:04.279 --> 00:22:07.079 Ranching demands present moment physical attention. 00:22:07.539 --> 00:22:10.339 You're mending fences, managing animals, dealing 00:22:10.339 --> 00:22:13.160 with the weather. Mm -mm. Grounding work. Totally. 00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:16.099 It forces him to turn off that internal psychological 00:22:16.099 --> 00:22:18.740 analysis that acting requires. It's a different 00:22:18.740 --> 00:22:21.160 kind of focus. And that connection to Montana, 00:22:21.380 --> 00:22:23.680 it's been recognized too. Montana State University, 00:22:23.859 --> 00:22:26.180 the very place where his students convinced him 00:22:26.180 --> 00:22:28.579 to pursue acting in the first place, they awarded 00:22:28.579 --> 00:22:32.259 him an honorary doctorate in 2018. That's a beautiful 00:22:32.259 --> 00:22:34.380 validation of the whole journey, isn't it? It 00:22:34.380 --> 00:22:36.799 really is. And he maintains other academic links 00:22:36.799 --> 00:22:39.220 too. He serves on the board of trustees at Alfred 00:22:39.220 --> 00:22:41.880 University back in New York State, which also 00:22:41.930 --> 00:22:44.509 awarded him an honorary doctorate in 2011. So 00:22:44.509 --> 00:22:46.990 he never fully cut the ties to his teaching and 00:22:46.990 --> 00:22:49.349 learning roots. That's great. And just to round 00:22:49.349 --> 00:22:51.390 out the human element, because it's mentioned, 00:22:51.509 --> 00:22:54.230 we should note his deep personal commitment to 00:22:54.230 --> 00:22:56.970 the Buffalo Bills, the football team. Ah, yes. 00:22:57.069 --> 00:23:00.250 The Bills mafia has a member in President Whitmore. 00:23:00.490 --> 00:23:02.549 It's that small detail, isn't it, that grounds 00:23:02.549 --> 00:23:05.109 the iconic actor in a very specific, relatable, 00:23:05.569 --> 00:23:08.390 passionate fandom. Yeah. And all this leads us 00:23:08.390 --> 00:23:11.210 to the final and maybe the most poignant piece 00:23:11.210 --> 00:23:14.369 of recent news that confirms his enduring legacy. 00:23:14.910 --> 00:23:18.109 This upcoming full circle moment with Spaceballs. 00:23:18.349 --> 00:23:21.170 Right, yeah. The sources announced this in June 00:23:21.170 --> 00:23:24.950 2025. He will reprise his role as Lone Star in 00:23:24.950 --> 00:23:27.849 the sequel. It's scheduled for 2027. After all 00:23:27.849 --> 00:23:30.680 these years. I know. But this is more than just 00:23:30.680 --> 00:23:33.000 a nostalgic sequel grab, isn't it? This feels 00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:35.619 like a landmark moment. He returns to the role 00:23:35.619 --> 00:23:38.319 that defined his early success decades later, 00:23:38.339 --> 00:23:41.240 and the sources confirm he will be co -starring 00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:44.259 with his own son, Lewis Pullman. It's the ultimate 00:23:44.259 --> 00:23:46.279 passing of the torch, isn't it? A literal bridging 00:23:46.279 --> 00:23:48.640 of generations within the same fictional universe. 00:23:48.680 --> 00:23:50.960 Yeah. The professor who was pushed by his students 00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:53.220 to pursue film is now the patriarch, returning 00:23:53.220 --> 00:23:56.019 to his roots and guiding his own son in the very 00:23:56.019 --> 00:23:58.019 genre that launched his career. It's kind of 00:23:58.019 --> 00:24:00.440 perfect. Hashtag, tag outro. So if we try to 00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:02.599 synthesize this whole deep dive into Bill Pullman's 00:24:02.599 --> 00:24:05.160 journey, what we really find is just this astonishing 00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:08.900 commitment to intellectual rigor, first of all, 00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:11.140 and then artistic challenge. Yeah. He moved from 00:24:11.140 --> 00:24:14.079 earning an MFA back in 1980 and teaching at places 00:24:14.079 --> 00:24:17.599 like SUNY and Montana State University to becoming 00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:21.339 the iconic President Whitmore. And ultimately, 00:24:22.270 --> 00:24:24.890 critically acclaimed detective and stage actor 00:24:24.890 --> 00:24:26.890 who just never settled for the predictable roles. 00:24:27.029 --> 00:24:29.630 His core mechanism for longevity I think is that 00:24:29.630 --> 00:24:32.140 continuous commitment to being a learner. He 00:24:32.140 --> 00:24:35.640 just keeps adapting his craft, moving seamlessly 00:24:35.640 --> 00:24:38.279 from the high comedy of Spaceballs to the absolute 00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:41.559 intensity of Edward Albee's controversial Pulitzer 00:24:41.559 --> 00:24:44.720 -winning stage work, and then embracing the challenging, 00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:47.059 dark complexity of television and shows like 00:24:47.059 --> 00:24:50.059 The Sinner and Torchwood. That willingness to 00:24:50.059 --> 00:24:52.559 continuously seek out roles entirely outside 00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:54.420 his established comfort zone, whether that zone 00:24:54.420 --> 00:24:58.799 was romantic lead or, you know, morally repugnant 00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:01.039 killer, that seems to be his enduring hallmark. 00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:03.319 When you look at his entire career laid out, 00:25:03.579 --> 00:25:05.660 you just see this sequence of deliberate risks, 00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:08.400 don't you? You really do. He chose Lynch right 00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:11.700 after Independence Day. He chose to tackle zoophilia 00:25:11.700 --> 00:25:14.299 on a Broadway stage after Sleepless in Seattle. 00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:17.779 He chose a child killer role after years of being 00:25:17.779 --> 00:25:21.279 America's charming, reliable, good guy. Yeah. 00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:24.019 And that adaptability, that constant seeking 00:25:24.019 --> 00:25:26.900 is what makes the forthcoming Spaceballs sequel 00:25:26.900 --> 00:25:30.099 actually feel relevant, not just nostalgic. Right. 00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:33.420 What does it mean for an actor to revisit a defining, 00:25:33.420 --> 00:25:37.039 beloved role like Lone Star so many decades later? 00:25:37.500 --> 00:25:39.880 Not just for the fans, which is great. but as 00:25:39.880 --> 00:25:42.180 a direct creative collaboration with his own 00:25:42.180 --> 00:25:44.059 son. It elevates the whole project, doesn't it? 00:25:44.099 --> 00:25:46.480 From simple nostalgia to a real statement on 00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:48.980 artistic legacy. Yeah. That multi -generational 00:25:48.980 --> 00:25:51.559 partnership the professor turned patriarch, guiding 00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:53.619 the next generation in the universe that defined 00:25:53.619 --> 00:25:55.559 his own youth that might just be the most defining 00:25:55.559 --> 00:25:57.799 and honestly the most appealing element of his 00:25:57.799 --> 00:26:00.400 continuing story. It leaves us with a final provocative 00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:02.839 thought maybe for you, the listener, to explore. 00:26:02.980 --> 00:26:05.660 Considering his extensive education, the academic 00:26:05.660 --> 00:26:08.460 background, and the huge risks he took on both 00:26:08.430 --> 00:26:11.990 stage and screen. Which of Pullman's career decisions 00:26:11.990 --> 00:26:14.490 required the greater intellectual or emotional 00:26:14.490 --> 00:26:17.029 bravery? Ooh, good question. Was it committing 00:26:17.029 --> 00:26:19.789 to the deep psychological demands of David Lynch's 00:26:19.789 --> 00:26:22.789 Lost Highway, plunging into that surreal darkness? 00:26:23.730 --> 00:26:25.829 Or was it the sheer courage required to stand 00:26:25.829 --> 00:26:28.650 on a Broadway stage night after night and tackle 00:26:28.650 --> 00:26:31.390 the intensely controversial taboo subject matter 00:26:31.390 --> 00:26:35.180 of The Goat? Hmm, that's a tough one. Both required 00:26:35.180 --> 00:26:37.420 immense guts, just in different ways. A question 00:26:37.420 --> 00:26:39.400 worth mulling over until we see Lone Star and 00:26:39.400 --> 00:26:41.859 his son fly again. That's all the time we have 00:26:41.859 --> 00:26:42.720 for this deep dive.