WEBVTT

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Welcome to the Deep Dive, where we really get

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stuck into a subject, try and dig out those fascinating

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insights, those sort of aha moments. Yeah, find

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the good stuff. Exactly. And today we're exploring

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someone who really defies easy categorization,

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David Baddiel. Definitely. I mean, just think

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about it for a second. This is the guy who co

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-wrote Three Lions, right? That football anthem.

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Oh, yeah. Everyone knows that one. Topped the

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charts not once, but twice. Became this huge

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national thing, you know, part of the culture

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around English football. Absolutely. Waving in.

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But and here's the thing. This same person is

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also an award winning children's author. Right.

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He sold out Wembley Arena with a comedy act.

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And he sparked these really deep national conversations

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about prejudice, particularly anti -Semitism.

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That's something that reigned, isn't it? That

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kind of diverse impact. I mean, the sheer breadth

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of what he's done across so many different fields,

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it just screams unique, doesn't it? A really

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multifaceted individual. It really does. So our

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aim today is to, well, look beyond those easy

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labels, the surface stuff, and try to understand

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the contributions he's made. not just to entertainment,

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which is obvious, but importantly to public discourse

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too, our sort of broader cultural conversation.

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That's a great way to put it. And what's really

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striking about Bideel, what makes him so fascinating,

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I think, is that ability he has to just seamlessly

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shift between these different cultural worlds,

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sometimes doing both at the same time almost.

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Yeah, like juggling chainsaws and kittens. Ah,

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maybe. But... you know, he goes from creating

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this huge mass entertainment, like a number one

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football song everyone sings, to then engaging

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in really serious intellectual stuff. You know,

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his non -fiction, those powerful documentaries,

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his stand -up, which gets quite deep, and this

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incredible versatility, this intellectual curiosity

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just makes him a perfect subject for this kind

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of deep dive. Yeah. Let's us really explore the,

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well, the breadth and depth of his influence

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across all these different, sometimes clashing

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areas. That's a really key point. And it sets

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us up perfectly for what we want to do today.

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A proper deep dive into, well, the many lives

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and careers of David Baddiel, the English comedian,

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presenter, screenwriter, author, singer. All

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of it. Quite the list. Well, look at his origins,

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unpack his really groundbreaking work in comedy,

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dig into his writing career, which, as you said,

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covers everything from adult novels to kids'

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bestsellers. And look at how he's engaged, quite

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courageously, really, with some tricky social

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and political topics. Yeah. And our main source

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for this, our roadmap, if you like, is a pretty

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extensive Wikipedia entry. We're going to be

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pulling it apart and seeing what we find. Right.

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And it's a fantastic resource, a real treasure

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trove of information. So our job is to kind of

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distill the key bits, those fascinating details

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that really light up his journey. We would give

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you a really thorough understanding of how he's

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evolved, pulling out the most important nuggets,

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the things that show his intellectual curiosity

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and the impact he's had. And I think what's really

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interesting here is how we can sort of connect

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the dots across his whole career. You start to

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see these underlying themes, this consistent

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intellectual thread running through it all when

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you look at the source material like this. It's

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not just, you know, a list of stuff he did. It's

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a story, a narrative of growth and engagement

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and, well, personal evolution, too. OK, so to

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really get a grip on David Baddiel's journey,

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all that breadth we talked about, we need to

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go right back. Back to the start, his foundations.

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Where it all began. He was born David Lionel

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Baddiel, May 28th, 1964. And here's the first

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surprise for many, maybe Troy, New York. Yeah,

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not Wofford. Not Wofford, no. His parents were

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from the UK. They were living in the US then.

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But he actually moved to England when he was

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tiny, just four months old. Now, it's a subtle

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thing being born in the US but raised pretty

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much entirely in England, this kind of dual British

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-American heritage on paper. Does that? maybe

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plant some seed, some subtle feeling of being

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slightly other, even as he became, you know,

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totally embedded in British culture, gave him

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a slightly different perspective, maybe. It's

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possible, isn't it? The dual nationality, you

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get the U .S. part was just those first few months.

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It could add a little layer to how he saw things,

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how he formed his identity. But I think the really

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profound influence, the thing that you can see

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echoing in his work is definitely his family

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history. Right. It's a story that's deeply marked

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by, well, displacement, but also incredible resilience.

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And this isn't just background info. It's like

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a lens, I think, for looking at a lot of his

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later stuff on identity, belonging, prejudice.

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If you connect that to the bigger picture, it

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helps make sense of the personal drive behind

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some of his arguments, especially when he talks

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about identity politics or forms of discrimination

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that maybe get overlooked. That makes a lot of

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sense. So let's unpack that family history a

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bit more, then, especially his mother's side.

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Those origins seem incredibly harrowing. It feels

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like the kind of story that would cast a long

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shadow, right? Absolutely. It's quite something.

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What are the key things we need to know? What

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really shaped that family story? Well, OK, let's

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start with his father, Colin Bryan Bedale. He

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came from a working class Swansea family, Eastern

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European Jewish background. He's a research chemist,

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worked for Unilever, sounds pretty stable, academic

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almost. Yeah. But then in the 80s, he was made

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redundant, which was a massive thing for any

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family. creates huge strain uncertainty. Definitely.

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And after that, he switched paths completely,

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started selling dinky toys at Grey's Antique

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Market. Wow, quite a change. It is. From science

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to, well, antiques and collectibles, it gives

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you this little glimpse into a family dealing

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with economic change, having to adapt, shows

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resilience, sure, but maybe hints at some underlying

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anxieties about security, too. And then his mother's

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background. That's where the really heavy historical

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weight comes in, the trauma. Exactly. His mother,

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Sarah Fabian, she was born in Nazi Germany. Her

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family was Jewish and quite wealthy. Right. But

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crucially, when she was just five months old,

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this is 1939, her parents fled Germany and took

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her to England. They had to get out. Because

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of the Nazis? Yes. Her father, David Bediel's

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maternal grandfather, had been stripped of his

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assets during Kristallnacht, the night of broken

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glass. That... terrifying wave of attacks on

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Jews across Germany, a really stark sign of the

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state -sponsored persecution that was ramping

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up just before the Holocaust. God, unimaginable.

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And the trauma didn't stop when they got to the

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UK. His grandfather, despite fleeing the Nazis,

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was actually interned for a year on the Isle

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of Man. as an enemy alien. What? But he was fleeing

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the enemy? Exactly. It's deeply ironic. Tragic,

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really. A man escaping persecution, only to be

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locked up by the country that offered safety.

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It just highlights the suspicion, the injustice

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that even refugees faced during wartime. And

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to add another layer of sadness, his grandfather

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struggled with mental health problems for the

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rest of his life. Sometimes needed hospitalization.

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So this whole family history... fleeing fascism,

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losing everything, the internment, the mental

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health struggles. It's a powerful undercurrent,

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isn't it? Absolutely. It provides this like visceral,

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lived understanding of being marginalized, being

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misunderstood. And it really reframes his later

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arguments, especially in Jews Don't Count, makes

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them feel deeply personal, deeply felt, not just

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theoretical. Yeah, you can absolutely see that

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connection is profound. And you can only imagine

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how those echoes, that intergenerational trauma

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and resilience would shape someone. And on a

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more sort of day -to -day personal level, Badil

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himself has shared a bit about his childhood.

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He said in 2022 that he felt like his older brother

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Ivor basically parented him. Right, I remember

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reading that. Because his dad was unemployed

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and angry while my mom was distracted by her

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passionate affair. Now these are just snippets,

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but they offer a fascinating glimpse into to

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the sort of emotional world he grew up in. They

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really do. How do you think those kinds of dynamics,

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you know, family love mixed with tension, maybe

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having to be a bit independent emotionally, might

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have influenced him, his humor maybe, his introspection,

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even his drive? Well, it's often the case, isn't

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it, that a childhood with, let's say, emotional

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turbulence, where you have to navigate complex

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family stuff, it can really sharpen your observational

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skills. Makes sense. You become more introspective,

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maybe develop a strong drive to express yourself.

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Yeah. And humor especially can become this really

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sophisticated coping mechanism. Yeah. Way to

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process difficult things or maybe connect when

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other connections feel a bit complicated. Yeah.

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And that idea of being parented by an elder brother,

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it suggests relying on sibling bonds more than

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perhaps the parent -child one in some ways. Yeah.

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That could shape his collaborative side later

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on, but maybe also fuel a need to carve out his

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own voice, his own identity. So this complex

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background, you could definitely see it contributing

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to that unique mix he has later, the sharp wit,

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the intelligence, but also that deep vulnerability

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you see in his confessional stand -up. And it

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also points to his own curiosity about where

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he came from. His family history was explored

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on that BBC show. Who do you think you are? Oh,

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yeah. I remember that episode. Though interestingly,

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It didn't actually prove his theory that his

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mother might have been secretly adopted from

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another Jewish family trying to escape. But the

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fact he even explored that tells you something.

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It really does. Speaks volumes about his self

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-awareness, that sort of investigative streak,

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maybe. OK, so let's turn to his education then

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and the path that eventually led him towards

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comedy. Right. He grew up in Dallas Hill, London,

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with his brothers Ivor, who also became a writer,

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interestingly, and Dan. He went to the Northwest

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London Jewish Day School, then Haberdasher's

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Ast Boy School, both pretty well regarded schools

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known for being academically strong. Then he

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went up to Cambridge, King's College, studied

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English and got a double first BA, which for

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anyone listening who doesn't know the UK system,

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that's top honors. Seriously impressive academically.

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Absolutely. Shows that intellect was always there.

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And it was at Cambridge that he joined the famous

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Cambridge Footlights. Ah, yes. The Footlight.

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Which is more than just a student drama club,

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isn't it? It's practically a British comedy institution.

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A launch pad for generations of comedians, writers,

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performers, who basically shaped the landscape

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for decades. Totally. Footlights isn't just a

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club, it's a rite of passage almost. A real crucible

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for comedy talent. Being part of that shows he

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was already leaning towards performance and writing,

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sharpening his skills in this, well, hotbed of

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future stars. And it's also worth noting, he

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started a PhD in English at University College

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London, but didn't finish it. Right. Now that's

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not a failure, I don't think. It's more like

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a really crucial signpost. It shows that early,

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decisive pull away from pure academia towards

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actually doing creative stuff. Prioritizing the

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direct engagement, the expression you get from

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comedy over sticking with scholarly research

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is probably a conscious choice. Recognizing his

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intellectual curiosity could be better channeled

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in the dynamic, immediate world of performing

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and writing. That makes perfect sense and sets

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us up nicely for his, well, his meteoric rise

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in comedy. After uni, he jumped straight into

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professional stand -up in London, started making

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a name for himself pretty quickly. But he wasn't

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just performing, he was writing too, honing those

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skills, contributing to massive shows like Spitting

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Image. Hugely influential, that show. Yeah. brilliant

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savage satire with the puppets. And writing for

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other big names like Rory Bremner, his first

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TV appearance was actually in Filthy Rich and

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Cat Flap. Ah, with Rick Mayall and Ed Edmonton.

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Cold classic. Exactly. So this early period,

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you really see him developing his craft from

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all angles, performing, writing, working across

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different styles of comedy. absorbing it all.

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Yeah. And a key thing here, I think, is how fast

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he established himself, not just as the guy on

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stage, but as the writer behind the scenes too.

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Right. That dual threat. Exactly. That ability

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to both create the material and deliver it effectively.

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It's a theme that runs right through his career.

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Shows he really understood how comedy works from

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the ground up. And writing for Spitting Image

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early on, which was known for being pretty biting.

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often controversial, that also may be hints at

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the intellectual age, the willingness to tackle

00:12:22.700 --> 00:12:25.529
social commentary that we see later. even in

00:12:25.529 --> 00:12:28.070
his lighter stuff. Definitely. But his career

00:12:28.070 --> 00:12:30.850
really, really took off when he teamed up with

00:12:30.850 --> 00:12:33.450
Rob Newman in 1988. That partnership was huge.

00:12:33.590 --> 00:12:35.590
Groundbreaking, really. Together with another

00:12:35.590 --> 00:12:38.250
comedy duo who were coming up, Steve Punt and

00:12:38.250 --> 00:12:42.129
Hugh Dennis, they created and performed The Mary

00:12:42.129 --> 00:12:44.649
White House Experience, which started on BBC

00:12:44.649 --> 00:12:47.549
Radio 1, ran for four series plus a special,

00:12:48.009 --> 00:12:50.649
became this massive hit with its kind of unique

00:12:50.649 --> 00:12:53.750
mix of surreal and observational sketch comedy.

00:12:53.789 --> 00:12:57.000
Very dist - And its popularity just exploded,

00:12:57.240 --> 00:12:59.960
paving the way for the big jump to TV, BBC Two,

00:13:00.039 --> 00:13:02.139
two massively acclaimed series there, bringing

00:13:02.139 --> 00:13:04.419
their brand of humor to a huge national audience.

00:13:04.679 --> 00:13:07.360
Yeah, that move from radio to TV for Mary Whitehouse

00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:09.679
Experience was a really big deal. It showed how

00:13:09.679 --> 00:13:12.480
popular they were becoming, how culturally relevant.

00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:15.379
And then after that, Baddiel Newman teamed up

00:13:15.379 --> 00:13:17.419
again, just the two of them, for Newman and Baddiel,

00:13:17.460 --> 00:13:21.629
in pieces on BBC Two. And that show... pushed

00:13:21.629 --> 00:13:24.269
their style even further, didn't it? Often quite

00:13:24.269 --> 00:13:26.090
intellectual, subversive character sketches,

00:13:26.690 --> 00:13:29.090
weird monologues, really sharp observational

00:13:29.090 --> 00:13:30.990
bits. Yeah, they weren't just funny shows, were

00:13:30.990 --> 00:13:33.149
they? They felt like they were defining something

00:13:33.149 --> 00:13:36.049
for a generation. Pushing boundaries for mainstream

00:13:36.049 --> 00:13:39.429
comedy, offering something a bit more, I don't

00:13:39.429 --> 00:13:44.250
know, cerebral, anarchic than what else was around.

00:13:44.409 --> 00:13:48.590
Definitely. And that leads us to this truly landmark

00:13:48.590 --> 00:13:50.809
moment. something that cemented their status

00:13:50.809 --> 00:13:53.029
and really changed the game for comedy. Their

00:13:53.029 --> 00:13:56.169
live tour, Newman and Baddiel, live and in pieces.

00:13:56.210 --> 00:13:58.870
Yeah. It ended with this incredible achievement.

00:13:59.169 --> 00:14:01.950
The first ever sold out gig for a comedy act

00:14:01.950 --> 00:14:04.809
at Wembley Arena, playing to 12 ,500 people.

00:14:06.019 --> 00:14:08.580
For comedy. Exactly. So what does that actually

00:14:08.580 --> 00:14:09.940
mean? It means they didn't just do comedy, they

00:14:09.940 --> 00:14:12.320
completely changed its status. Before them, the

00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:14.299
idea of a comedian headlining Wembley, a place

00:14:14.299 --> 00:14:16.860
for rock gods, massive pop stars, was almost

00:14:16.860 --> 00:14:19.080
unthinkable. Totally. Baddiel and Newman just

00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:20.980
smashed that perception. They proved stand -up

00:14:20.980 --> 00:14:22.840
and sketch could pull in the same huge crowds,

00:14:23.259 --> 00:14:25.179
command the same sort of reverence as rock and

00:14:25.179 --> 00:14:27.620
roll. It wasn't just a gig, it was a statement.

00:14:27.820 --> 00:14:30.730
It was a cultural turning point. It legitimized

00:14:30.730 --> 00:14:33.809
comedy as a stadium -level thing, paved the way

00:14:33.809 --> 00:14:35.909
for all the big arena comics who came later,

00:14:36.409 --> 00:14:38.509
fundamentally changed the economics, the whole

00:14:38.509 --> 00:14:41.009
landscape of British comedy. So connecting that

00:14:41.009 --> 00:14:43.230
to the bigger picture, it was genuinely pivotal

00:14:43.230 --> 00:14:45.809
for comedy, wasn't it? Showing its commercial

00:14:45.809 --> 00:14:48.110
clout, its cultural power, in a way people hadn't

00:14:48.110 --> 00:14:51.149
really seen before. Absolutely. Before this,

00:14:51.450 --> 00:14:54.309
comedy acts were mostly in theaters, clubs. But

00:14:54.309 --> 00:14:56.870
Betty Ellen Newman proved they could fill arenas.

00:14:57.240 --> 00:14:59.860
That changed the industry forever. And Berio

00:14:59.860 --> 00:15:02.320
was right at the forefront of that shift, making

00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:05.340
comedy a stadium -level art form. Amazing. But

00:15:05.340 --> 00:15:08.340
despite this massive public success, their partnership

00:15:08.340 --> 00:15:11.700
was famously tricky. Ah, yes, the difficult second

00:15:11.700 --> 00:15:15.299
album phase writ large. Kind of. Marked by this

00:15:15.299 --> 00:15:18.019
really fraught working relationship. Lots of

00:15:18.019 --> 00:15:20.000
tension, apparently, which eventually led to

00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:22.039
them splitting up. Their final tour together

00:15:22.039 --> 00:15:24.559
was even documented in that BBC2 film Newman

00:15:24.559 --> 00:15:27.450
and Berio on the road to Wembley. Gave a bit

00:15:27.450 --> 00:15:29.230
of a behind the scenes look at the challenges,

00:15:29.370 --> 00:15:32.549
the pressures of that level of success. Fascinating,

00:15:32.570 --> 00:15:35.049
isn't it? How you can have that intense internal

00:15:35.049 --> 00:15:38.509
fiction bubbling away underneath such massive,

00:15:38.870 --> 00:15:41.250
unprecedented success on the outside. Yeah, the

00:15:41.250 --> 00:15:43.990
classic creative tensions. But Baddiel then moved

00:15:43.990 --> 00:15:46.950
on, formed another really iconic partnership,

00:15:47.190 --> 00:15:49.429
this time with Frank Skinner. Right. They met,

00:15:49.649 --> 00:15:52.629
started sharing a flat, both massive football

00:15:52.629 --> 00:15:56.409
fans. Badil, of course, is a huge Chelsea supporter.

00:15:56.730 --> 00:15:59.129
Die Hard Blue. And that shared love of football,

00:15:59.250 --> 00:16:01.830
it became the sort of fertile ground for their

00:16:01.830 --> 00:16:04.269
next big thing, didn't it? Kicked off a whole

00:16:04.269 --> 00:16:06.509
new chapter in comedy innovation. It really did.

00:16:06.570 --> 00:16:09.649
And what's fascinating here is how that personal

00:16:09.649 --> 00:16:11.309
connection, their shared obsession with football,

00:16:11.470 --> 00:16:14.470
just flowed directly into this new, incredibly

00:16:14.470 --> 00:16:17.029
popular kind of comedy. They created, wrote,

00:16:17.149 --> 00:16:20.110
and performed Fantasy Football League. Hugely

00:16:20.110 --> 00:16:22.539
successful entertainment show. based on what

00:16:22.539 --> 00:16:25.100
was then quite a new thing, fantasy football

00:16:25.100 --> 00:16:27.299
leagues. Yeah, brought it mainstream. Totally.

00:16:27.679 --> 00:16:31.480
Ran for three seminal series on BBC Two, just

00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:33.960
captured the public imagination, mixing sports

00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:36.679
chats, celebrity guests, sharp comedy takes.

00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:39.519
Then they did live specials for the 98 World

00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:43.559
Cup, Euro 2004. They became these must watch

00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:46.679
TV events. They really did. It was properly innovative.

00:16:47.100 --> 00:16:48.899
Set a new bitch mark for how you could blend

00:16:48.899 --> 00:16:51.240
sport and entertainment. And its influence went

00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:53.600
beyond TV, didn't it? Fantasy Football League

00:16:53.600 --> 00:16:55.980
also spawned those really successful podcasts.

00:16:56.279 --> 00:16:58.779
One for The Times during the 2006 World Cup in

00:16:58.779 --> 00:17:00.480
Germany. Yeah, I remember listening to that.

00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:03.159
And another for Absolute Radio for the 2010 World

00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:05.940
Cup in South Africa, apparently got over three

00:17:05.940 --> 00:17:08.440
million downloads, which was huge back then.

00:17:08.740 --> 00:17:11.079
Massive. It really shows their pioneering spirit

00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:13.500
again. They didn't just stick to TV. They saw

00:17:13.500 --> 00:17:16.019
the potential to take their mixed sports comedy

00:17:16.019 --> 00:17:19.289
celebs into new media. created this really casual,

00:17:19.529 --> 00:17:21.829
funny style that still influences sports, chat

00:17:21.829 --> 00:17:24.769
shows, and podcasts today, they made sports talk

00:17:24.769 --> 00:17:27.349
fun, accessible, without alienating the hardcore

00:17:27.349 --> 00:17:29.630
fans. Yeah, they definitely changed the game,

00:17:29.970 --> 00:17:32.410
pardon the pun, for sports entertainment. But

00:17:32.410 --> 00:17:35.009
their biggest cultural footprint from that whole

00:17:35.009 --> 00:17:39.309
collaboration, easily, was Three Lions. Ah, yes,

00:17:39.390 --> 00:17:42.650
the song. The song. The duo topped the UK charts

00:17:42.650 --> 00:17:45.650
twice with that football anthem. co -written

00:17:45.650 --> 00:17:48.549
and performed with the Lightning Seeds. Originally,

00:17:48.710 --> 00:17:51.670
the official England anthem for Euro 96 became

00:17:51.670 --> 00:17:54.390
instantly massive, so they re -recorded it with

00:17:54.390 --> 00:17:56.690
updated lyrics for the 98 World Cup. Still gets

00:17:56.690 --> 00:17:59.430
played constantly. Its staying power is just

00:17:59.430 --> 00:18:01.309
incredible, isn't it? Came back into the charts

00:18:01.309 --> 00:18:04.029
in 2018, like 20 years later, when England were

00:18:04.029 --> 00:18:06.069
doing well in the World Cup. And that phrase,

00:18:06.329 --> 00:18:10.029
it's coming home, it became this massive national

00:18:10.029 --> 00:18:13.130
meme. Part of the language sums up that mix of

00:18:13.130 --> 00:18:16.009
hope and slightly painful English self -awareness

00:18:16.009 --> 00:18:17.730
about football. Absolutely. It became part of

00:18:17.730 --> 00:18:19.769
the national consciousness, an anthem across

00:18:19.769 --> 00:18:22.970
generations. But not every part of his comedy

00:18:22.970 --> 00:18:26.589
career has aged quite so uncontroversially. And

00:18:26.589 --> 00:18:28.349
it's important we talk about those bits with

00:18:28.349 --> 00:18:30.630
the right nuance, especially as public attitudes

00:18:30.630 --> 00:18:33.640
change. Back in the 90s, Baddiel got a lot of

00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:35.759
criticism for his impression of the black footballer

00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:38.380
Jason Lee on Fantasy Football League. Right,

00:18:38.500 --> 00:18:40.579
the pineapple incident. Yeah, involved wearing

00:18:40.579 --> 00:18:43.059
a pineapple on his head and using blackface,

00:18:43.579 --> 00:18:45.779
which is obviously deeply offensive, has that

00:18:45.779 --> 00:18:49.000
long racist history. Lee himself said he felt

00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:51.660
it was a form of bullying. A stark reminder that

00:18:51.660 --> 00:18:54.519
intent isn't everything, the impact matters.

00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:57.019
Yeah, this is definitely a complex and challenging

00:18:57.019 --> 00:19:00.500
bit of his past. And it highlights how social

00:19:00.500 --> 00:19:03.019
attitudes evolve, how we think about accountability

00:19:03.019 --> 00:19:06.759
for past actions, even in comedy. Betty'll, to

00:19:06.759 --> 00:19:10.269
be fair, has apologized multiple times, very

00:19:10.269 --> 00:19:12.869
clearly over the years, called it part of a very

00:19:12.869 --> 00:19:15.710
bad racist tradition on social media and newspaper

00:19:15.710 --> 00:19:18.430
articles. There was that point in 2020 when Jason

00:19:18.430 --> 00:19:21.210
Lee said he hadn't had a direct personal apology

00:19:21.210 --> 00:19:23.890
from Baddiel or Skinner, but that was addressed

00:19:23.890 --> 00:19:27.950
later, quite publicly, in 2022. Baddiel met Lee,

00:19:28.190 --> 00:19:30.650
apologized face to face for a Channel 4 documentary,

00:19:30.930 --> 00:19:33.569
which felt like a significant step, a personal

00:19:33.569 --> 00:19:35.759
reckoning with the harm caused. But this whole

00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:38.000
controversy, it kind of resurfaced or took on

00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:40.619
a new dimension when he published his book Jews

00:19:40.619 --> 00:19:44.519
Don't Count in 2021, because he wrote about how,

00:19:44.680 --> 00:19:47.200
in his view, that past mistake was being used

00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:49.960
against him. He said that despite apologizing

00:19:49.960 --> 00:19:52.859
repeatedly, people, especially online, kept bringing

00:19:52.859 --> 00:19:55.359
up that image to try and shut him down when he

00:19:55.359 --> 00:19:57.779
talked about anti -Semitism. He called it a Trump

00:19:57.779 --> 00:20:01.319
card used to discredit his views on racism, which

00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:05.450
highlights this really complex often quite brutal

00:20:05.450 --> 00:20:08.170
landscape of public debate now, doesn't it? Where

00:20:08.170 --> 00:20:11.230
past actions are constantly relitigated. It really

00:20:11.230 --> 00:20:13.509
does. And what's fascinating, I suppose, is how

00:20:13.509 --> 00:20:16.089
these instances just throw that tension between

00:20:16.089 --> 00:20:18.569
comedic freedom and social responsibility into

00:20:18.569 --> 00:20:20.950
sharp relief. Yeah. It also shows how public

00:20:20.950 --> 00:20:23.230
figures have to grapple with their own history,

00:20:23.630 --> 00:20:25.869
their past output, in an age where everyone's

00:20:25.869 --> 00:20:28.750
watching and old clips can resurface instantly.

00:20:29.289 --> 00:20:32.240
And this specific example as Bediel framed it,

00:20:32.500 --> 00:20:35.339
also ties into that idea of selective outrage

00:20:35.339 --> 00:20:38.630
or a perceived hierarchy of victimhood, which

00:20:38.630 --> 00:20:41.089
is so central to his later arguments in the book.

00:20:41.329 --> 00:20:43.930
It's a very public, very uncomfortable example

00:20:43.930 --> 00:20:47.410
of how norms around humor and identity shift

00:20:47.410 --> 00:20:49.789
over time. And it wasn't the only time he had

00:20:49.789 --> 00:20:52.609
to navigate these tricky waters around past comedy

00:20:52.609 --> 00:20:55.750
choices. Just a few months later, February 2022,

00:20:56.250 --> 00:20:58.569
another old clip popped up, this one from The

00:20:58.569 --> 00:21:01.710
Frank Skinner Show back in 2004. OK, in this

00:21:01.710 --> 00:21:04.130
clip, but he'll use the word Pikey, which is

00:21:04.130 --> 00:21:07.029
a deeply offensive slur against traveler. to

00:21:07.029 --> 00:21:09.730
describe how he looked. And critics immediately

00:21:09.730 --> 00:21:11.849
jumped on it, accused him of hypocrisy, given

00:21:11.849 --> 00:21:14.630
how outspoken he'd become against anti -Semitism,

00:21:14.950 --> 00:21:17.630
and Jews don't count. It really underlines the

00:21:17.630 --> 00:21:19.529
intense scrutiny people face now, doesn't it?

00:21:19.630 --> 00:21:21.710
Especially if you become a voice on issues of

00:21:21.710 --> 00:21:25.519
prejudice. There's this demand for absolute consistency.

00:21:25.940 --> 00:21:28.759
There is. It shows very clearly that public figures

00:21:28.759 --> 00:21:31.039
are held accountable now for pretty much everything

00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:33.480
they've ever said or done, especially if they

00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:36.180
then take a stand on discrimination. That accusation

00:21:36.180 --> 00:21:39.559
of hypocrisy, it highlights the demand for consistency,

00:21:39.940 --> 00:21:42.220
for self -awareness from people who challenge

00:21:42.220 --> 00:21:46.640
others on prejudice. It's also a powerful reminder

00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:49.119
that thanks to the internet, nothing really vanishes.

00:21:49.420 --> 00:21:52.579
Old comments can become problematic in new ways

00:21:52.579 --> 00:21:56.099
as sensitivities change. These incidents, they're

00:21:56.099 --> 00:21:58.259
kind of like case studies, aren't they? In that

00:21:58.259 --> 00:22:00.900
complex, often unforgiving relationship between

00:22:00.900 --> 00:22:04.240
comedy, public figures, and the constantly shifting

00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:07.920
ground of social justice. Definitely. So after

00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:10.019
Fantasy Football League... Badil and Skinner

00:22:10.019 --> 00:22:12.039
carried on working together, too, didn't they?

00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:14.400
With Badil and Skinner unplanned. That's right,

00:22:14.500 --> 00:22:16.640
the improvised Q &A show. Which was really popular,

00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:19.660
too. Toured Edinburgh Fringe, ran for five series

00:22:19.660 --> 00:22:22.799
on ITV, even did a West End run at the Shaftesbury

00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:25.759
Theatre in 2001, showed their comedy chemistry

00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:27.819
worked beyond just sketches or football chat.

00:22:28.259 --> 00:22:30.420
Yeah, they clearly had a great rapport. And their

00:22:30.420 --> 00:22:32.240
collaboration stretched into doing good stuff,

00:22:32.579 --> 00:22:35.069
too. In 2001, they made a bit of history on who

00:22:35.069 --> 00:22:36.890
wants to be a millionaire, didn't they? They

00:22:36.890 --> 00:22:39.730
did. First, celebrity contestants to get up to

00:22:39.730 --> 00:22:42.250
250 ,000 pounds for their charities. Quarter

00:22:42.250 --> 00:22:44.930
of a million quid for the Catholic Children's

00:22:44.930 --> 00:22:47.990
Society and Imperial Cancer Research Fund show

00:22:47.990 --> 00:22:50.170
they could use their comedy partnership for,

00:22:50.170 --> 00:22:53.029
well, serious philanthropic impact, too. Absolutely.

00:22:53.390 --> 00:22:55.750
It really cemented them as this much -loved duo

00:22:55.750 --> 00:22:58.190
beyond just the football stuff, showed their

00:22:58.190 --> 00:23:01.799
versatility and their generosity. Right, shall

00:23:01.799 --> 00:23:04.240
we shift gear now and talk about David Baddiel's

00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:06.880
solo career? Because he really is a man of many

00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:09.519
hats. By many mediums, yeah. His career is just

00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:12.559
marked by this incredible outpouring across writing,

00:23:12.980 --> 00:23:17.180
TV, stage, constantly reinventing himself, exploring

00:23:17.180 --> 00:23:20.319
new ways to be creative. Totally. As an author,

00:23:20.579 --> 00:23:22.759
for starters, he's written four adult novels.

00:23:23.049 --> 00:23:25.109
which shows a different side, goes beyond the

00:23:25.109 --> 00:23:27.329
comedy persona. There was time for bed back in

00:23:27.329 --> 00:23:30.589
96, whatever love means in 2002. I remember that

00:23:30.589 --> 00:23:32.630
one, making a splash. Yeah, the secret purposes

00:23:32.630 --> 00:23:36.089
in 2006 and the death of Eli Gold in 2011. And

00:23:36.089 --> 00:23:38.390
they're not just light reads, they often explore

00:23:38.390 --> 00:23:40.869
things like relationships, memory, kind of existential

00:23:40.869 --> 00:23:44.039
angst, but with that dark wit he has. Whatever

00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:46.460
love means, for instance, really dug into the

00:23:46.460 --> 00:23:49.079
complexities of love and fidelity, showed him

00:23:49.079 --> 00:23:51.240
as a novelist interested in the human condition,

00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:54.039
a long way from the Wembley arena chanting. Definitely

00:23:54.039 --> 00:23:57.220
a different gear. But then he's maybe become

00:23:57.220 --> 00:24:00.160
even more famous, more widely adored for his

00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:02.779
children's books, which was a pretty amazing

00:24:02.779 --> 00:24:04.859
pivot in his writing career, wasn't it? It really

00:24:04.859 --> 00:24:07.359
was. Yeah. He put out his first children's novel,

00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:12.059
The Parent Agency, in June 2015. Right. And it

00:24:12.059 --> 00:24:15.279
wasn't just a bestseller. It won the Lolly Award,

00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:18.220
which is a big deal in kids' books. The successor

00:24:18.220 --> 00:24:21.339
to the Roald Dahl Funny Prize for best laugh

00:24:21.339 --> 00:24:24.299
-out -loud book for nine 13 -year -olds. That's

00:24:24.299 --> 00:24:26.400
serious recognition of his talent in that field,

00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:28.319
and apparently is going to be made into a big

00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:30.559
feature film, which Badil himself is writing

00:24:30.559 --> 00:24:33.319
and producing for Fox 2000. Shows how much appeal

00:24:33.319 --> 00:24:36.200
it has. Wow. And that was just the start, wasn't

00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:38.839
it? He became incredibly prolific as a children's

00:24:38.839 --> 00:24:41.279
author. Totally. After the parent agency, he

00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:43.799
just kept them coming. showed this amazing ability

00:24:43.799 --> 00:24:46.000
to connect with young readers. There was the

00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:48.900
person controller in 2015, Anna Malcolm in 16,

00:24:49.220 --> 00:24:52.279
birthday boy 17, head kid 18, the Taylor turbo

00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:56.200
chaser 19, future friend 2020, the boy who got

00:24:56.200 --> 00:24:59.359
accidentally famous 21, virtually Christmas 22.

00:24:59.660 --> 00:25:02.339
Blimey, he's been busy. And he even did the boy

00:25:02.339 --> 00:25:04.200
who could do what he liked, a short one just

00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:07.599
for World Book Day in 2016. What's really impressive

00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:10.440
isn't just the quantity, it's the quality. shows

00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:12.599
that incredible versatility, again, moving from

00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:16.079
complex adult themes to crafting these imaginative,

00:25:16.279 --> 00:25:18.599
genuinely funny stories that kids absolutely

00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:21.119
love. It's just astounding, isn't it? From the

00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:23.920
raw energy of Wembley to creating these intricate

00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:26.640
funny worlds for kids, his ability to connect

00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:29.099
with such different audiences across generations,

00:25:29.180 --> 00:25:31.359
it's a rare gift. It really is. And it's not

00:25:31.359 --> 00:25:34.039
just books. He's been super active writing and

00:25:34.039 --> 00:25:36.480
directing for screen and stage two, really showing

00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:38.759
his commitment to storytelling in, well, pretty

00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:41.599
much all of it. Absolutely. His TV credits are

00:25:41.599 --> 00:25:44.000
really varied. He wrote and starred in Bideel's

00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:47.759
Syndrome, that sitcom for Sky 1, ran for 14 episodes,

00:25:48.059 --> 00:25:50.480
had people like Morwenna Banks, Stephen Fry,

00:25:50.799 --> 00:25:53.380
Jonathan Bailey in it. Right, sort of semi -autobiographical,

00:25:53.420 --> 00:25:55.819
wasn't it? About a stand -up comedian blurring

00:25:55.819 --> 00:25:58.079
the lines a bit. Yeah. And he also wrote the

00:25:58.079 --> 00:26:00.180
Norris McWhorter Chronicles for Sky 1, which

00:26:00.180 --> 00:26:02.759
he actually directed too, so moving behind the

00:26:02.759 --> 00:26:05.740
camera, taking more creative control. And he

00:26:05.740 --> 00:26:07.660
even wrote a couple of episodes of The Thunderbirds

00:26:07.660 --> 00:26:12.190
Are Go. Reboot on ITV shows his range again,

00:26:12.390 --> 00:26:15.490
different genres. Oh, from sitcom angst to international

00:26:15.490 --> 00:26:17.809
rescue. Why not? And his writing goes into film,

00:26:18.009 --> 00:26:20.730
too. He wrote the comedy movie The Infidel, starred

00:26:20.730 --> 00:26:24.269
Omid Jalili, Richard Schiff, Matt Lucas, Miranda

00:26:24.269 --> 00:26:27.109
Hart, explored those themes of religious identity,

00:26:27.670 --> 00:26:30.029
cultural clashes, but with a light touch. Yeah,

00:26:30.109 --> 00:26:32.789
I remember that. And then, get this, he adapted

00:26:32.789 --> 00:26:35.299
The Infidel into a stage musical. composed the

00:26:35.299 --> 00:26:38.220
lyrics himself, music by Aaron Baron Cohen Saatch's

00:26:38.220 --> 00:26:41.000
brother, and he directed the production too at

00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:44.460
Theatre Royal Stratford East in late 2014. That's

00:26:44.460 --> 00:26:47.380
a huge undertaking, shows incredible multidisciplinary

00:26:47.380 --> 00:26:50.759
talent. Wow, screenplay to musical theatre director,

00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:53.119
that really is comprehensive engagement with

00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:56.000
storytelling. And he's made a big mark in broadcasting

00:26:56.000 --> 00:26:58.619
too, hasn't he? Shaping conversations on radio

00:26:58.619 --> 00:27:01.480
and TV, often with quite clever, intellectually

00:27:01.480 --> 00:27:04.859
curious formats. Definitely. On radio, he created

00:27:04.859 --> 00:27:08.980
and hosted Heresy for BBC Radio 4 back in 2004.

00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:11.740
That panel show where guests have to challenge

00:27:11.740 --> 00:27:14.339
popular opinions received wisdom. Right, use

00:27:14.339 --> 00:27:16.420
wit and logic to kind of dismantle assumptions.

00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:18.960
Exactly. And testament to how good it is, it's

00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:21.579
still going. Now in its 10th series, hosted by

00:27:21.579 --> 00:27:24.269
Victoria Corrin, but Baddiel often goes, back

00:27:24.269 --> 00:27:26.789
as a guest, still provoking thought, sparking

00:27:26.789 --> 00:27:29.250
debate. Yeah, great format. He also created and

00:27:29.250 --> 00:27:31.569
hosted Don't Make Me Laugh for Radio 4 in 2014,

00:27:32.049 --> 00:27:34.349
another really clever idea, a panel show where

00:27:34.349 --> 00:27:36.190
guests have to talk about funny subjects for

00:27:36.190 --> 00:27:38.009
as long as possible without making the others

00:27:38.009 --> 00:27:40.259
laugh. Which sounds... Harder than it looks.

00:27:40.339 --> 00:27:42.539
Deceptively difficult. Needs serious wit and

00:27:42.539 --> 00:27:45.420
self -control. And then in 2015, he did David

00:27:45.420 --> 00:27:47.700
Baddiel Tries to Understand. Yeah. Again, for

00:27:47.700 --> 00:27:49.900
Radio 4, where he'd try and get his head around

00:27:49.900 --> 00:27:51.920
really complex topics suggested by people on

00:27:51.920 --> 00:27:54.220
Twitter, ran for three series. That's a great

00:27:54.220 --> 00:27:56.680
concept, too. It is. And it raises an interesting

00:27:56.680 --> 00:27:59.480
question, doesn't it? How did these inventive

00:27:59.480 --> 00:28:03.400
radio formats show Baddiel's ongoing intellectual

00:28:03.400 --> 00:28:07.589
curiosity and his talent? for turning complex,

00:28:07.750 --> 00:28:09.950
sometimes really abstract ideas into something

00:28:09.950 --> 00:28:13.670
engaging, accessible, often funny for a wide

00:28:13.670 --> 00:28:16.470
audience. It's almost like comedy as public education.

00:28:16.700 --> 00:28:19.819
I think it's partly his ability to find the human

00:28:19.819 --> 00:28:21.980
angle, the funny side in almost anything, and

00:28:21.980 --> 00:28:23.859
he's not afraid to admit when he doesn't know

00:28:23.859 --> 00:28:25.779
something, which is really relatable, disarming.

00:28:26.299 --> 00:28:28.660
And beyond creating and hosting, his face has

00:28:28.660 --> 00:28:31.299
popped up everywhere on TV. He's done acting

00:28:31.299 --> 00:28:34.160
roles, Little Britain, skins, showing a different

00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:36.819
side, The Life of Rock with Brian Pern, even

00:28:36.819 --> 00:28:39.519
horrible histories. And he's a brilliant panel

00:28:39.519 --> 00:28:41.380
show guest, isn't he? Always sharp on things

00:28:41.380 --> 00:28:44.440
like 8 out of 10 cats as Countdown QI Alan Davies

00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:46.799
is as yet untitled. That quick wit, the intellect,

00:28:46.940 --> 00:28:48.900
the improv skills are always there. Yeah, he

00:28:48.900 --> 00:28:50.859
has great value on those. And his documentary

00:28:50.859 --> 00:28:53.339
work is really interesting too, shows that deeper,

00:28:53.460 --> 00:28:55.900
more investigative side. He did that four part

00:28:55.900 --> 00:28:58.279
travel doc, David Baddiel, on the Silk Road for

00:28:58.279 --> 00:29:00.640
Discovery. Oh yeah, following that ancient route.

00:29:00.940 --> 00:29:04.039
Yeah, 4 ,000 miles, mixing history, culture,

00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:07.740
personal thoughts. Really fascinating. Other

00:29:07.740 --> 00:29:10.799
docs he fronted include Badeel and the missing

00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:14.519
Nazi billions for BBC Two, a serious investigation

00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:17.579
into Holocaust -era finance, and who do you want

00:29:17.579 --> 00:29:20.539
your child to be? Also for BBC Two, looking at

00:29:20.539 --> 00:29:23.079
modern parenting pressures. He even did an episode

00:29:23.079 --> 00:29:26.319
of World's Most Dangerous Roads. Blimey. Adventurous,

00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:29.140
too. Seems so. And beyond that, he presented

00:29:29.140 --> 00:29:31.359
a couple of episodes of BBC Two's Arts Night,

00:29:32.019 --> 00:29:33.619
and he was a regular presenter for the Penguin

00:29:33.619 --> 00:29:36.519
Podcast. Interviewing big names like Johnny Maher,

00:29:36.700 --> 00:29:39.359
Zadie Smith, really underlines his deep interest

00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:41.700
in literature and culture. And his personal life

00:29:41.700 --> 00:29:43.960
has become part of his work too, hasn't it? Showing

00:29:43.960 --> 00:29:46.019
that willingness to be vulnerable, share really

00:29:46.019 --> 00:29:48.400
personal stuff, most notably in The Trouble with

00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:51.740
Dad, that Channel 4 doc from 2017 about his father's

00:29:51.740 --> 00:29:54.960
dementia. It was very moving, very honest. Yeah,

00:29:55.099 --> 00:29:57.339
a really powerful look at a tough family situation.

00:29:57.720 --> 00:29:59.740
He's also done Who Do You Think You Are, looking

00:29:59.740 --> 00:30:01.759
into his own family tree, and he was on Desert

00:30:01.759 --> 00:30:04.019
Island Discs, which is always revealing. The

00:30:04.019 --> 00:30:06.630
British Institution. Exactly. More recently,

00:30:06.869 --> 00:30:09.269
he was on Taskmaster Series 9, even won an episode,

00:30:09.269 --> 00:30:11.829
and he did the great stand -up to Cancer Bake

00:30:11.829 --> 00:30:14.750
Off in 2021. It's just this incredibly broad

00:30:14.750 --> 00:30:18.470
range of TV work, shows his profile, but also

00:30:18.470 --> 00:30:20.650
his willingness to put himself out there in all

00:30:20.650 --> 00:30:22.269
sorts of ways, often quite challenging ones.

00:30:22.390 --> 00:30:24.109
It really is. It shows a real shift, doesn't

00:30:24.109 --> 00:30:27.450
it, from just being a comedian to engaging with

00:30:27.450 --> 00:30:29.730
his public platform in a much more reflective

00:30:29.730 --> 00:30:32.470
personal way? Yeah. Which leads us perfectly

00:30:32.470 --> 00:30:35.109
into his return to stand up, because that marked

00:30:35.109 --> 00:30:37.329
a really profound change towards a much more

00:30:37.329 --> 00:30:39.730
personal confessional style. Yeah. And it really

00:30:39.730 --> 00:30:41.750
struck a chord with audiences who maybe remembered

00:30:41.750 --> 00:30:44.750
his earlier, broader stuff. That's right. In

00:30:44.750 --> 00:30:47.490
2013, he came back to stand up with flame. not

00:30:47.490 --> 00:30:50.289
the musical, critically acclaimed, explored celebrity,

00:30:50.430 --> 00:30:52.309
his own experiences with fame, played Edinburgh

00:30:52.309 --> 00:30:55.109
Fringe, Manier Chocolate Factory in London, then

00:30:55.109 --> 00:30:58.269
toured nationally. But the show that really signaled

00:30:58.269 --> 00:31:01.490
that huge transformative shift was My Family,

00:31:01.849 --> 00:31:04.970
not the sitcom. Premiered in spring 2016, again

00:31:04.970 --> 00:31:07.450
at the Manier Chocolate Factory. And this was

00:31:07.450 --> 00:31:10.690
intensely personal, deeply confessional, telling

00:31:10.690 --> 00:31:14.180
the true... often very raw, story of his mom,

00:31:14.359 --> 00:31:16.640
who had recently died, including details about

00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:19.299
her affair, and his dad, who was suffering with

00:31:19.299 --> 00:31:23.130
dementia. Just fascinating there is seeing that

00:31:23.130 --> 00:31:26.009
evolution in his comedy. Moving from the big

00:31:26.009 --> 00:31:28.650
observational stuff, the sketches, to this deeply

00:31:28.650 --> 00:31:32.430
personal, almost vulnerable storytelling. Using

00:31:32.430 --> 00:31:36.130
humor to navigate grief, love, really complex

00:31:36.130 --> 00:31:39.130
family stuff. And it just connected massively

00:31:39.130 --> 00:31:42.170
with audiences. Showed that comedy could be incredibly

00:31:42.170 --> 00:31:44.589
funny, but also profoundly moving at the same

00:31:44.589 --> 00:31:48.289
time. The show was a huge success, ran for ages

00:31:48.289 --> 00:31:50.289
at the Minier, transferred multiple times to

00:31:50.289 --> 00:31:51.799
the... West End, Vaudeville Theater, Playhouse

00:31:51.799 --> 00:31:55.079
Theater. Got an Olivier Award nomination in the

00:31:55.079 --> 00:31:57.279
entertainment and family category, which is...

00:31:57.079 --> 00:31:59.480
Pretty major. Yeah, it showed a comedian using

00:31:59.480 --> 00:32:02.460
humor to process and share these really universal

00:32:02.460 --> 00:32:04.579
human things in a way that genuinely touched

00:32:04.579 --> 00:32:06.960
people emotionally. Absolutely. And there's that

00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:09.099
really poignant detail from that time, too. Rob

00:32:09.099 --> 00:32:11.339
Newman, his old comedy partner, he actually went

00:32:11.339 --> 00:32:13.859
to see my family, not the sitcom, which was apparently

00:32:13.859 --> 00:32:15.359
the first time they'd been in the same room since

00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:18.519
1993. Wow. That says something about the impact,

00:32:18.680 --> 00:32:20.559
the honesty of the show, doesn't it? It really

00:32:20.559 --> 00:32:24.200
does. And the show toured widely, too. Montreal

00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:26.740
Comedy Festival Australia. showed that its themes,

00:32:26.859 --> 00:32:29.079
its storytelling, had this universal appeal.

00:32:29.819 --> 00:32:33.240
His next stand -up show, Trolls, not the dolls

00:32:33.240 --> 00:32:35.859
which toured in 2020, then shifted focus onto

00:32:35.859 --> 00:32:38.980
social media, online abuse. Very timely subject.

00:32:39.099 --> 00:32:41.789
Very much so. And beyond standup, his writing

00:32:41.789 --> 00:32:43.990
ambitions kept growing, didn't they? Showing

00:32:43.990 --> 00:32:46.710
that relentless intellectual drive. In October

00:32:46.710 --> 00:32:49.910
2019, his play God's Dice was put on at the Soho

00:32:49.910 --> 00:32:53.029
Theatre in London. Right. Exploring that complex

00:32:53.029 --> 00:32:55.589
territory where science and religion meet. Featured

00:32:55.589 --> 00:32:57.890
an aging quantum physicist drawn into supporting

00:32:57.890 --> 00:33:00.410
a radical religious group. The title obviously

00:33:00.410 --> 00:33:03.529
playing on Einstein's famous line, God does not

00:33:03.529 --> 00:33:06.069
play dice with the universe. Mm hmm. Shows that

00:33:06.069 --> 00:33:07.910
consistent intellectual curiosity again, doesn't

00:33:07.910 --> 00:33:09.960
it? Yeah. Willingness to tackle big philosophical

00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:13.200
ideas, but in an engaging story -driven way.

00:33:13.839 --> 00:33:16.819
Exactly. And then in 2019, he got this major

00:33:16.819 --> 00:33:20.099
recognition, elected a fellow of the Royal Society

00:33:20.099 --> 00:33:23.559
of Literature. Wow. Which really cemented his

00:33:23.559 --> 00:33:26.380
standing not just as a comedian, but as a serious

00:33:26.380 --> 00:33:28.839
respected figure in the wider literary world.

00:33:28.940 --> 00:33:31.279
That's a huge honor. really underlines the intellectual

00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:33.599
depth, the respect he's earned across different

00:33:33.599 --> 00:33:36.420
creative fields, which brings us neatly, I think,

00:33:36.539 --> 00:33:38.559
to what might be his most defining, certainly

00:33:38.559 --> 00:33:41.859
most challenging work in recent years, the work

00:33:41.859 --> 00:33:44.779
that undeniably sparked huge debate nationally

00:33:44.779 --> 00:33:46.920
and internationally. We have to talk about Jews

00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:49.980
Don't Count. Yes, absolutely. This feels like

00:33:49.980 --> 00:33:52.500
maybe his most impactful non -fiction work so

00:33:52.500 --> 00:33:55.500
far, a really defining piece, and one that, well...

00:33:55.369 --> 00:33:57.569
courageously stirred up a lot of debate, often

00:33:57.569 --> 00:34:00.910
uncomfortable debate. His book, Jews Don't Count,

00:34:00.990 --> 00:34:04.329
came out via TLS books in 2021. And it puts forward

00:34:04.329 --> 00:34:07.089
this really powerful, quite contentious argument,

00:34:07.549 --> 00:34:09.510
which is essentially that anti -racists, whether

00:34:09.510 --> 00:34:12.130
they realize it or not, often apply double standards

00:34:12.130 --> 00:34:14.210
when it comes to anti -Semitism. They treat it

00:34:14.210 --> 00:34:16.650
differently to other forms of racism. His central

00:34:16.650 --> 00:34:19.710
thesis is basically summed up by the line. A

00:34:19.710 --> 00:34:21.869
sacred circle is drawn around those whom the

00:34:21.869 --> 00:34:23.909
progressive modern left are prepared to go into

00:34:23.909 --> 00:34:26.610
battle for, and it seems as if the Jews aren't

00:34:26.610 --> 00:34:29.489
in it. And the book gives loads of examples,

00:34:29.650 --> 00:34:31.789
from culture, from politics, to back this up,

00:34:32.070 --> 00:34:34.469
arguing that progressives, despite their anti

00:34:34.469 --> 00:34:36.949
-racist principles, often have this persistent

00:34:36.949 --> 00:34:40.610
blind spot regarding anti -Semitism. He points

00:34:40.610 --> 00:34:43.969
to cases where tropes, conspiracy theories, prejudiced

00:34:43.969 --> 00:34:46.889
language aimed at Jews, stuff that would be instantly

00:34:46.889 --> 00:34:48.949
condemned if aimed at other minorities often

00:34:48.949 --> 00:34:51.809
gets overlooked, downplayed, or excused when

00:34:51.809 --> 00:34:53.989
it's antisemitic. And here's where it got really

00:34:53.989 --> 00:34:56.030
interesting and where he took that argument onto

00:34:56.030 --> 00:34:58.969
screens. He fronted a Channel 4 documentary based

00:34:58.969 --> 00:35:01.369
on the book, same title, David Baddiel, Jews

00:35:01.369 --> 00:35:04.449
Don't Count, aired November 2022. And that doc

00:35:04.449 --> 00:35:07.530
really explored why antisemitism often gets ignored,

00:35:08.150 --> 00:35:10.230
digging into what he called the dysfunction between

00:35:10.230 --> 00:35:13.460
progressives and Jews. It's a brave area to explore,

00:35:13.940 --> 00:35:16.099
potentially uncomfortable for many, but clearly

00:35:16.099 --> 00:35:18.280
something he feels incredibly passionate about.

00:35:18.739 --> 00:35:21.280
Drawing on his own background, his observations,

00:35:21.739 --> 00:35:24.659
to make this deeply personal case for a more

00:35:24.659 --> 00:35:27.760
consistent, more inclusive anti -racism. Yeah.

00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:30.099
And the reaction to the book and the documentary,

00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:33.460
it was intense. And in some ways, kind of paradoxically

00:35:33.460 --> 00:35:35.800
proved his point, didn't it? How so? Well, The

00:35:35.800 --> 00:35:38.739
Guardian's TV review called The Doc. So shocking,

00:35:38.900 --> 00:35:41.059
it sounds like a siren highlighting how urgent

00:35:41.059 --> 00:35:44.059
and attention grabbing it was. But maybe more

00:35:44.059 --> 00:35:46.420
telling. The Financial Times pointed out that

00:35:46.420 --> 00:35:48.940
the huge torrent of scorn online the program

00:35:48.940 --> 00:35:51.719
got actually only serves to highlight its importance.

00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:54.059
Almost proving his central argument about how

00:35:54.059 --> 00:35:56.440
difficult it is to talk openly about antisemitism

00:35:56.440 --> 00:35:59.659
in some progressive spaces and the hostile reaction

00:35:59.659 --> 00:36:02.039
you can get if you try. So connecting it to the

00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:04.840
bigger picture. Badiel's work here, it fundamentally

00:36:04.840 --> 00:36:07.719
challenges how we define prejudice, challenges

00:36:07.719 --> 00:36:10.420
those hierarchies of victimhood. It pushes for

00:36:10.420 --> 00:36:13.960
a more nuanced, more consistent, truly inclusive

00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:16.559
anti -racism that doesn't leave any group out.

00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:19.940
It's a powerful call for consistency, for recognition

00:36:19.940 --> 00:36:22.679
of all forms of discrimination. That brings us

00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:25.159
to his broader political views, his commentary,

00:36:25.260 --> 00:36:27.679
which are, again, quite distinct, remarkably

00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:30.320
nuanced. He says he votes labor, but he makes

00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:32.179
a point of saying he's not a labor supporter.

00:36:32.380 --> 00:36:33.860
Right. That's an important distinction for him.

00:36:33.980 --> 00:36:37.400
Yeah. He feels his job as a comedian, a commentator,

00:36:37.460 --> 00:36:40.099
means he needs to stay independent, be able to

00:36:40.099 --> 00:36:42.559
criticize any political party if they mess up,

00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:45.480
which really underlines his commitment to independent

00:36:45.480 --> 00:36:48.960
thinking, intellectual honesty over just sticking

00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:51.320
to a party line. Seems typical of his approach.

00:36:51.179 --> 00:36:53.860
approach to complex stuff. Definitely. And his

00:36:53.860 --> 00:36:56.099
comments on specific politicians reflect that,

00:36:56.099 --> 00:36:59.460
too, that nuance. Back in February 2016, he called

00:36:59.460 --> 00:37:02.619
Jeremy Corbyn a pro -proper left -wing labor

00:37:02.619 --> 00:37:05.500
politician. Said the scaremongering from the

00:37:05.500 --> 00:37:07.800
right -wing press actually made him lean towards

00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:10.400
supporting Corbyn, even though he had reservations

00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:13.099
about some of the people around him. He thought

00:37:13.099 --> 00:37:16.409
Corbyn himself was a decent man. Trying to offer

00:37:16.409 --> 00:37:18.349
a balanced view there, separating the person

00:37:18.349 --> 00:37:20.929
from the associations, critiquing the wider context.

00:37:21.389 --> 00:37:24.530
Exactly. And then crucially, in April 2017, he

00:37:24.530 --> 00:37:26.369
wrote this big piece for The Guardian, hitting

00:37:26.369 --> 00:37:28.909
out at Ken Livingston's really controversial

00:37:28.909 --> 00:37:31.969
comments about Hitler and Zionism. Right. But

00:37:31.969 --> 00:37:34.550
significantly, in that same article, he went

00:37:34.550 --> 00:37:36.739
out of his way to state very clearly. that he

00:37:36.739 --> 00:37:39.639
is not a Zionist. That's key. Absolutely. He

00:37:39.639 --> 00:37:42.300
explicitly said he disagrees with religion being

00:37:42.300 --> 00:37:45.320
the basis for statehood and disagreed with the

00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:47.500
appalling actions of the present Israeli government.

00:37:47.940 --> 00:37:49.880
That clarification is vital to understanding

00:37:49.880 --> 00:37:52.110
where he's coming from. It shows his critique

00:37:52.110 --> 00:37:54.329
of anti -Semitism stems from an anti -racist

00:37:54.329 --> 00:37:57.389
principle, not from any sort of partisan or nationalistic

00:37:57.389 --> 00:37:59.989
viewpoint, underscores his independence, his

00:37:59.989 --> 00:38:02.250
moral clarity on it. Yeah, that distinction is

00:38:02.250 --> 00:38:04.750
crucial, demonstrates he separates concern about

00:38:04.750 --> 00:38:08.070
anti -Semitism as racism from any political alignment

00:38:08.070 --> 00:38:11.150
with Zionism or Israeli government actions, keeps

00:38:11.150 --> 00:38:14.150
the focus on prejudice itself. Precisely. And

00:38:14.150 --> 00:38:16.769
then in March 2018 on the BBC's Daily Politics,

00:38:17.090 --> 00:38:19.289
he described anti -Semitism as being sort of

00:38:19.289 --> 00:38:21.889
invisible to core and others on the left because

00:38:21.889 --> 00:38:24.329
their main focus was on fighting the good fight

00:38:24.329 --> 00:38:26.389
against capitalism, which again points directly

00:38:26.389 --> 00:38:28.769
back to that blind spot idea he explored in Jews

00:38:28.769 --> 00:38:31.250
Don't Count, suggesting certain ideologies might

00:38:31.250 --> 00:38:33.670
inadvertently prioritize some kinds of discrimination

00:38:33.670 --> 00:38:37.079
over others. Hmm. And on the, well, the truly

00:38:37.079 --> 00:38:39.079
vile end of things, talking about historical

00:38:39.079 --> 00:38:42.539
denial, in February 2020, he stated absolutely

00:38:42.539 --> 00:38:45.079
clearly that Holocaust denial is a direct way

00:38:45.079 --> 00:38:47.679
of saying Jews are liars. Jews have tricked the

00:38:47.679 --> 00:38:50.099
world for their own gain. Jews are the most evil

00:38:50.099 --> 00:38:53.360
pernicious race that exists. Strong words. And

00:38:53.360 --> 00:38:55.739
he concluded definitively it is hate speech.

00:38:55.860 --> 00:38:58.699
There's no other conclusion. Leaves no doubt

00:38:58.699 --> 00:39:01.440
where he stands on that kind of dangerous, insidious

00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:04.159
stuff. Frames it clearly as direct anti -semitism.

00:39:04.010 --> 00:39:07.289
hate speech designed to dehumanize. Yeah, and

00:39:07.289 --> 00:39:09.550
his commitment to fostering dialogue, difficult

00:39:09.550 --> 00:39:11.510
dialogue, isn't just theoretical. He puts it

00:39:11.510 --> 00:39:14.630
into practice. In 2024, he launched that highly

00:39:14.630 --> 00:39:17.769
anticipated podcast, A Muslim and a Jew Go There.

00:39:17.929 --> 00:39:20.010
Right, with Sayyid al -Warsi. Exactly, Baroness

00:39:20.010 --> 00:39:22.150
Warsi, the prominent Muslim politician and writer.

00:39:22.530 --> 00:39:25.110
And what's really fascinating here is that consistent

00:39:25.110 --> 00:39:28.269
drive he has to start direct, open conversations

00:39:28.269 --> 00:39:31.030
about really sensitive, often very contentious

00:39:31.030 --> 00:39:34.409
topics. pushing for genuine engagement, challenging

00:39:34.409 --> 00:39:36.929
existing narratives about group identities, shared

00:39:36.929 --> 00:39:39.610
spaces, especially with everything going on globally.

00:39:40.530 --> 00:39:42.829
This project directly tackles those themes of

00:39:42.829 --> 00:39:45.469
interfaith understanding, mutual respect, that

00:39:45.469 --> 00:39:48.150
his recent work highlighted. It shows a proactive,

00:39:48.489 --> 00:39:51.269
deeply personal effort to try and bridge divides

00:39:51.269 --> 00:39:53.630
through talking. It feels like a very fitting,

00:39:53.869 --> 00:39:55.989
very important continuation of his recent work,

00:39:56.110 --> 00:39:58.429
doesn't it? Actively using dialogue as a tool.

00:39:58.710 --> 00:40:00.889
OK, moving away from the public commentary for

00:40:00.889 --> 00:40:04.309
a bit, David Baddiel's life also shows this deep,

00:40:04.590 --> 00:40:07.630
sustained commitment to philanthropy, often driven

00:40:07.630 --> 00:40:11.030
by his personal experiences, alongside his, well,

00:40:11.409 --> 00:40:14.050
his intriguing personal passions. Indeed. He's

00:40:14.050 --> 00:40:16.650
a proud patron of Humanist UK, which fits with

00:40:16.650 --> 00:40:18.750
his stated atheism, his commitment to secular

00:40:18.750 --> 00:40:21.969
ethics. He's also a patron of Calam, the campaign

00:40:21.969 --> 00:40:24.110
against living miserably. Yeah, vital mental

00:40:24.110 --> 00:40:26.590
health charity. Focus on preventing male suicide.

00:40:26.940 --> 00:40:29.760
and he actively used his platform for them. He

00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:31.940
compared their stand -up to Stop Suicide event,

00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:34.420
appeared in those powerful radio ads tackling

00:40:34.420 --> 00:40:37.059
young male suicide, really using his voice for

00:40:37.059 --> 00:40:39.110
a critical issue. It's really quite moving, isn't

00:40:39.110 --> 00:40:41.530
it? Seeing how his personal stuff, especially

00:40:41.530 --> 00:40:44.070
with his dad's dementia, translated into this

00:40:44.070 --> 00:40:46.989
deep commitment to causes, it feels like more

00:40:46.989 --> 00:40:49.550
than just blending his name. It seems very direct,

00:40:49.750 --> 00:40:52.929
very personal. It does. For instance, he's actively

00:40:52.929 --> 00:40:55.269
back charities like the Alzheimer's Society,

00:40:55.409 --> 00:40:57.690
the National Brain Appeal, the Unforgettable

00:40:57.690 --> 00:41:00.429
Foundation, all driven by his family's experience.

00:41:00.829 --> 00:41:02.670
He even did a special charity gala performance

00:41:02.670 --> 00:41:05.820
of my family. not the sitcom, with all the money

00:41:05.820 --> 00:41:08.119
going straight to those charities, turning his

00:41:08.119 --> 00:41:10.400
art directly into support. That's fantastic.

00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:12.840
And his charity work goes wider, too, internationally,

00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:15.880
shows a broader human rights perspective. Back

00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:18.360
in February 2009, he co -signed an open letter

00:41:18.360 --> 00:41:21.500
in The Times supporting Baha 'i leaders who were

00:41:21.500 --> 00:41:24.360
being unjustly put on trial in Iran. standing

00:41:24.360 --> 00:41:27.059
up for religious freedom, human rights, beyond

00:41:27.059 --> 00:41:29.420
his immediate community. And he's been a big

00:41:29.420 --> 00:41:31.260
supporter of Comic Relief over the years, too.

00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:33.659
Took part in the Red Nose Convoy, delivering

00:41:33.659 --> 00:41:36.679
aid in Africa, hosted Comic Relief Does University

00:41:36.679 --> 00:41:38.920
Challenge, blending his comedy with fundraising.

00:41:39.599 --> 00:41:42.119
And he narrated that short film to trend on Twitter

00:41:42.119 --> 00:41:45.000
for the cancer charity CLIC Sergeant in 2018.

00:41:45.719 --> 00:41:47.699
Shows his compassionate side, willingness to

00:41:47.699 --> 00:41:50.599
help important causes. It's a really broad range

00:41:50.599 --> 00:41:52.980
of charity work, highlights of a very responsible

00:41:52.980 --> 00:41:55.860
site. to him. Definitely. And beyond the public

00:41:55.860 --> 00:41:58.159
stuff, the philanthropy, there are those few

00:41:58.159 --> 00:42:00.420
intriguing personal details that give us a bit

00:42:00.420 --> 00:42:02.780
more of a glimpse of the man behind it all and

00:42:02.780 --> 00:42:04.840
enrich our picture. He's been with fellow comedian

00:42:04.840 --> 00:42:07.639
Morwenna Banks since 1998. Right, also very talented.

00:42:07.860 --> 00:42:10.460
Yeah, performer writer. They got married in 2017.

00:42:10.820 --> 00:42:12.460
They live in North London with their two kids,

00:42:12.559 --> 00:42:15.619
daughter Dolly, born 2001, son Ezra, born 2004.

00:42:16.219 --> 00:42:18.340
Seem to keep their family life relatively private

00:42:18.340 --> 00:42:21.849
considering their profiles. And despite that

00:42:21.849 --> 00:42:23.809
deep Jewish background, family history we talked

00:42:23.809 --> 00:42:26.610
about, Betel describes himself as a 10 out of

00:42:26.610 --> 00:42:29.530
10 atheist, and fascinatingly, a fundamentalist

00:42:29.530 --> 00:42:32.250
Jewish atheist. Yeah, that's such an interesting

00:42:32.250 --> 00:42:34.989
phrase, isn't it? Fundamentalist Jewish atheist.

00:42:35.150 --> 00:42:37.630
It really is. Very thought -provoking. Tells

00:42:37.630 --> 00:42:39.429
you a lot about his identity, shows how you can

00:42:39.429 --> 00:42:42.010
keep a strong cultural ancestral connection,

00:42:42.570 --> 00:42:44.789
acknowledge that heritage, but without the religious

00:42:44.789 --> 00:42:47.969
belief. actively separating ethnicity, cultural

00:42:47.969 --> 00:42:51.349
roots from faith. It feels like a very modern

00:42:51.349 --> 00:42:53.670
take on identity, which he explores in his work,

00:42:53.829 --> 00:42:56.550
too. It does. And he also talks openly about

00:42:56.550 --> 00:43:00.380
struggling with chronic insomnia. Ah, yes. very

00:43:00.380 --> 00:43:02.900
common, but really debilitating condition. He's

00:43:02.900 --> 00:43:05.780
written quite candidly about it, which is another

00:43:05.780 --> 00:43:07.940
detail that just humanizes him, connects him

00:43:07.940 --> 00:43:11.619
to a shared, often hidden experience, shows that

00:43:11.619 --> 00:43:13.860
willingness to be vulnerable again. Definitely.

00:43:13.980 --> 00:43:16.500
And what's also fascinating here is seeing how

00:43:16.500 --> 00:43:19.099
his deep personal passions, his cultural loves,

00:43:19.619 --> 00:43:21.699
offer this vivid glimpse into his inner world,

00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:23.980
show the things that clearly inspire him, feed

00:43:23.980 --> 00:43:26.219
into his own creativity. Like his music taste.

00:43:26.420 --> 00:43:28.360
Exactly. He is, for example, this incredibly

00:43:28.360 --> 00:43:30.800
passionate fan. of the rock band Genesis. Ah,

00:43:30.920 --> 00:43:34.480
the prog rock connection. Total super fan. So

00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:36.719
devoted. He actually introduced them at their

00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:39.440
big turn it on again, the tour press conference

00:43:39.440 --> 00:43:42.739
back in 2006. Imagine that fan moment. Brilliant.

00:43:42.880 --> 00:43:45.300
And he even wrote the sleeve notes for the reissue

00:43:45.300 --> 00:43:47.760
of their classic album, Nursery Crime, shows

00:43:47.760 --> 00:43:50.519
real knowledge, deep appreciation. That's proper

00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:53.659
dedication. And his love for Peter Gabriel. Genesis's

00:43:53.659 --> 00:43:56.300
original frontman, is also really well known,

00:43:56.500 --> 00:43:58.800
quite endearing. He even worked a funny story

00:43:58.800 --> 00:44:01.219
into a stand -up about being misidentified by

00:44:01.219 --> 00:44:03.880
the Times Diary column at a Gabriel gig. Clearly

00:44:03.880 --> 00:44:06.179
found it amusing, happy to share it. Shows that

00:44:06.179 --> 00:44:08.739
nice self -awareness. And his admiration for

00:44:08.739 --> 00:44:11.739
David Bowie is just immense, deeply felt. Baddiel

00:44:11.739 --> 00:44:13.599
publicly wished for Bowie to make a comeback

00:44:13.599 --> 00:44:17.420
on his 65th birthday in 2012. Then after Bowie

00:44:17.420 --> 00:44:20.119
tragically died, he gave this really emotional

00:44:20.119 --> 00:44:22.139
speech at a tribute concert, calling Bowie the

00:44:22.139 --> 00:44:25.019
greatest tunesmith we have. Wow. Just shows the

00:44:25.019 --> 00:44:27.239
profound impact Bowie had on him, personally

00:44:27.239 --> 00:44:29.760
and culturally. These deep musical connections,

00:44:29.840 --> 00:44:32.420
they reveal this passionate, appreciative, culturally

00:44:32.420 --> 00:44:35.699
engaged side to his, well, his multifaceted personality.

00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:39.219
So what does this all mean? When you try and

00:44:39.219 --> 00:44:41.440
pull it all together, We've journeyed through

00:44:41.440 --> 00:44:44.159
this incredible, often surprising evolution of

00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:47.159
David Baddiel. We've seen him go from being this

00:44:47.159 --> 00:44:49.639
groundbreaking comedian, filling Wembley with

00:44:49.639 --> 00:44:52.340
Rob Newman, creating national anthems with Frank

00:44:52.340 --> 00:44:55.460
Skinner, to becoming this profound author writing

00:44:55.460 --> 00:44:58.199
best -selling kids' books, and then this really

00:44:58.199 --> 00:45:01.340
incisive social commentator challenging how we

00:45:01.340 --> 00:45:03.860
think about prejudice. Quite the arc. We've seen

00:45:03.860 --> 00:45:06.340
an artist who doesn't just reflect culture, he

00:45:06.340 --> 00:45:09.199
actively shapes it, constantly pushing boundaries,

00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:11.780
evolving his... voice, even while navigating

00:45:11.780 --> 00:45:14.340
some really intense personal stuff and public

00:45:14.340 --> 00:45:16.860
controversies, his whole career just feels like

00:45:16.860 --> 00:45:20.199
a testament to constant reinvention, that intellectual

00:45:20.199 --> 00:45:23.099
curiosity we keep mentioning, and a real willingness

00:45:23.099 --> 00:45:26.199
to face difficult truths, personal ones and societal

00:45:26.199 --> 00:45:28.039
ones. Yeah, and if you connect that to the bigger

00:45:28.039 --> 00:45:30.699
picture, Baddiel's journey really shows that

00:45:30.699 --> 00:45:33.440
having a cultural impact isn't just about entertaining

00:45:33.440 --> 00:45:36.099
people. It's also about engaging deeply with

00:45:36.099 --> 00:45:39.079
identity, with history, with the often uncomfortable

00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:41.760
stuff about our shared human experience. His

00:45:41.760 --> 00:45:44.639
willingness to evolve, to dig into those deeply

00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:47.219
personal stories, and to courageously challenge

00:45:47.219 --> 00:45:49.739
some established progressive ideas, especially

00:45:49.739 --> 00:45:52.980
with his work on antisemitism, it makes him a

00:45:52.980 --> 00:45:55.639
really significant, really vital voice for our

00:45:55.639 --> 00:45:59.519
times, I think. He embodies the idea that intellectual

00:45:59.519 --> 00:46:02.119
growth, creative growth, often means you have

00:46:02.119 --> 00:46:04.659
to confront the complex things, the inconvenient

00:46:04.659 --> 00:46:07.219
things, and do it with both intelligence and,

00:46:07.579 --> 00:46:10.260
well, conviction. So David Bideal's life and

00:46:10.260 --> 00:46:12.519
work, especially those unflinching explorations

00:46:12.519 --> 00:46:15.420
of identity, faith, those often visible biases

00:46:15.420 --> 00:46:17.719
in society, they kind of leave us with a question,

00:46:17.780 --> 00:46:20.179
don't they? They invite us to think what uncomfortable

00:46:20.179 --> 00:46:22.360
truths are we, maybe as individuals, maybe as

00:46:22.360 --> 00:46:24.619
a society, still reluctant to really acknowledge?

00:46:24.679 --> 00:46:27.800
And what crucial role do artists, thinkers play

00:46:27.800 --> 00:46:29.860
in maybe forcing us, compelling us, to finally

00:46:29.860 --> 00:46:32.119
take a proper look? That's a great question to

00:46:32.119 --> 00:46:34.840
end on. Something to chew on until our next deep

00:46:34.840 --> 00:46:35.960
dive. Thanks for joining us.