WEBVTT 00:00:11.019 --> 00:00:13.099 Hi everybody, welcome to the Canine Connection 00:00:13.099 --> 00:00:16.280 podcast. Today, Lori and I are going to talk 00:00:16.280 --> 00:00:20.320 about making training hard for our dogs, which 00:00:20.320 --> 00:00:25.679 doesn't sound very nice, but I talk about this 00:00:25.679 --> 00:00:31.620 for a couple of reasons. One of them is, you 00:00:31.620 --> 00:00:35.579 know, I've been reading another book, big surprise. 00:00:35.780 --> 00:00:39.240 And of course this, this is the universe, right? 00:00:39.299 --> 00:00:42.679 Or maybe it's just that people that the trend 00:00:42.679 --> 00:00:46.659 is now shifting, right? And people are understanding 00:00:46.659 --> 00:00:53.000 that part, because I also saw a post from Andrew 00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:55.780 Huberman, who's a neuroscientist. If you've never 00:00:55.780 --> 00:01:00.460 looked at his podcast, they're amazing. He takes 00:01:01.240 --> 00:01:06.260 complex topics and simplifies it so that anyone 00:01:06.260 --> 00:01:11.019 can understand it and it's just amazing information 00:01:11.019 --> 00:01:17.159 and he recently got a puppy and so it's so great 00:01:17.159 --> 00:01:19.799 because he's like got this puppy on the treadmill 00:01:19.799 --> 00:01:23.780 and he's like talking now about training and 00:01:23.780 --> 00:01:29.459 learning and how the brain learns right And so 00:01:29.459 --> 00:01:32.799 multiple things, stuff that I've been reading, 00:01:32.939 --> 00:01:36.120 things that he said, other things I've seen. 00:01:36.239 --> 00:01:39.939 And in addition to just what I'm experiencing 00:01:39.939 --> 00:01:43.120 in life, in training, with my training partner, 00:01:43.200 --> 00:01:49.200 with some of my students, is dogs thrive when 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:53.459 we challenge them. Dogs are a thousand times 00:01:53.459 --> 00:01:57.219 smarter than we ever give them credit for. We 00:01:57.219 --> 00:02:00.340 have this horrible tendency of like spoon feeding 00:02:00.340 --> 00:02:04.959 them, like constantly micromanaging them, helping 00:02:04.959 --> 00:02:11.080 them, doing it. Oh God, like just get out of 00:02:11.080 --> 00:02:14.400 the way and let them think. The second they make 00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:17.060 a mistake, I wouldn't even call it a mistake 00:02:17.060 --> 00:02:20.099 because if a dog is learning, let's say it heads 00:02:20.099 --> 00:02:23.620 in the wrong direction, we panic and intervene. 00:02:23.900 --> 00:02:27.349 Like we're just. constantly in there, in there, 00:02:27.349 --> 00:02:30.830 and in there, like helicopter parents, even like 00:02:30.830 --> 00:02:34.629 more micromanaging than that. And so we're doing 00:02:34.629 --> 00:02:37.770 a bunch of things. One is we're not even giving 00:02:37.770 --> 00:02:40.810 them an opportunity to show us like what they 00:02:40.810 --> 00:02:44.310 can do. Two, we're creating learned helplessness. 00:02:44.330 --> 00:02:48.930 We're teaching them, just don't do anything. 00:02:49.110 --> 00:02:51.710 I'm going to show you how to do it. Like, well, 00:02:51.789 --> 00:02:54.539 that's not going to go well down the road. Right. 00:02:54.659 --> 00:02:59.180 And the evidence and the research is showing 00:02:59.180 --> 00:03:04.319 that errors are a normal part and a necessary 00:03:04.319 --> 00:03:08.960 and an important part and a valuable part of 00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:13.180 learning. And so for constantly like trying to 00:03:13.180 --> 00:03:16.219 go, oh, God, oh, God, oh, God. And like, I got 00:03:16.219 --> 00:03:18.500 to do something. I got to do something. You're 00:03:18.500 --> 00:03:23.060 interfering with the dog's natural. learning 00:03:23.060 --> 00:03:29.180 process so I'm having people do wacky things 00:03:29.180 --> 00:03:33.400 like take their tiny little puppy when I mean 00:03:33.400 --> 00:03:37.759 young eight nine ten weeks old stop training 00:03:37.759 --> 00:03:40.879 it in your basement or in your empty training 00:03:40.879 --> 00:03:45.180 building bring it to class send it to the mat 00:03:45.180 --> 00:03:50.009 student's dog runs like goes to the mat She rewards 00:03:50.009 --> 00:03:53.710 it, sends it again. The dog wanders off. Now, 00:03:53.750 --> 00:03:56.229 I'm not saying let it get into trouble or into 00:03:56.229 --> 00:03:59.509 danger. It wasn't in danger. Just wandered away 00:03:59.509 --> 00:04:02.270 from the mat, right? Got distracted. It's a baby. 00:04:02.870 --> 00:04:05.270 Looks around in the environment and all of a 00:04:05.270 --> 00:04:07.229 sudden, it's the most fascinating thing ever. 00:04:07.310 --> 00:04:12.009 It snaps its head back, looks at the rug and 00:04:12.009 --> 00:04:15.050 goes, I'm supposed to go to the rug. Runs to 00:04:15.050 --> 00:04:19.529 the rug. Yes. after that next couple reps ran 00:04:19.529 --> 00:04:24.129 to the rug and back so the dog learned with absolutely 00:04:24.129 --> 00:04:31.250 zero handler interference and when it learned 00:04:31.250 --> 00:04:34.709 once it made that once it drew that conclusion 00:04:34.709 --> 00:04:38.569 all on its own it knew what to do like it wasn't 00:04:38.569 --> 00:04:42.069 like it kind of sort of learned it like it knew 00:04:42.069 --> 00:04:49.079 what to do right Yeah. And that's like the thing 00:04:49.079 --> 00:04:54.720 people are fearful of most is just letting them 00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:57.899 figure it out. But I think people shift to, well, 00:04:57.939 --> 00:05:00.100 I don't want, I don't want them to make a mistake. 00:05:00.319 --> 00:05:03.740 I don't want them to practice that. Like practice 00:05:03.740 --> 00:05:05.600 what? Like they don't even know what they're 00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:08.800 fucking doing anyway. Like there's no practicing. 00:05:10.029 --> 00:05:13.829 And even if you did sort of start training, putting 00:05:13.829 --> 00:05:16.310 some foundation on it, like you still need to 00:05:16.310 --> 00:05:20.730 let them sort things out and try to puzzle it 00:05:20.730 --> 00:05:24.670 out when it gets hard, when there's other choices 00:05:24.670 --> 00:05:29.509 and distractions out there. Um, it, I always 00:05:29.509 --> 00:05:31.990 say to my, like, I'm, I'm always saying this 00:05:31.990 --> 00:05:35.889 to my students. Like it is okay to let the wheels 00:05:35.889 --> 00:05:39.529 fall off the bus. Like don't, it's fine. It's 00:05:39.529 --> 00:05:42.769 okay. Like it happens to us as human beings in 00:05:42.769 --> 00:05:46.709 life. Don't tell me that shit hasn't gone backwards 00:05:46.709 --> 00:05:49.529 or sideways for you. And then you figure it out 00:05:49.529 --> 00:05:51.810 and then you feel like a million bucks because 00:05:51.810 --> 00:05:54.889 you figured it out without help. It's the same 00:05:54.889 --> 00:05:57.110 thing for the. the dogs and it's the same thing 00:05:57.110 --> 00:05:59.629 for the puppies and yeah they are like expect 00:05:59.629 --> 00:06:04.209 them to not go in the right direction on the 00:06:04.209 --> 00:06:06.430 first try or the second try or the third try 00:06:06.430 --> 00:06:09.009 like that can happen but let them have a chance 00:06:09.009 --> 00:06:12.029 let them have a chance like a hundred percent 00:06:12.029 --> 00:06:15.509 yeah I remember one time I was doing articles 00:06:15.509 --> 00:06:18.790 with Zesty and I don't know he just kept grabbing 00:06:18.790 --> 00:06:21.170 the wrong article I didn't know why I couldn't 00:06:21.170 --> 00:06:25.420 figure it out and I and I couldn't fix it So 00:06:25.420 --> 00:06:30.000 I just left it. I just let it be wrong. I got 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:33.120 up the next day. I still didn't know why or whatever. 00:06:33.300 --> 00:06:40.560 And I tried again and he did it right. So that 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:44.839 whole, like, you know, Oh, I have to like, it's 00:06:44.839 --> 00:06:47.019 the end of the world. It's completely broken. 00:06:47.279 --> 00:06:51.579 I have to, I can't stop training until this is 00:06:51.579 --> 00:06:56.269 right. Let me simp. Like now look, I'm not saying, 00:06:56.430 --> 00:06:59.589 again, right, like, let the dog struggle to the 00:06:59.589 --> 00:07:02.550 point of no return. But, like, we don't even 00:07:02.550 --> 00:07:07.629 give them a chance to, like, muddle through. 00:07:08.149 --> 00:07:12.069 The biggest one is a great example is that, like, 00:07:12.089 --> 00:07:15.910 when I have students start their puppies or adult 00:07:15.910 --> 00:07:18.189 dogs even who have never done scent articles, 00:07:18.389 --> 00:07:23.439 we start them on the tins. And I'm like. just 00:07:23.439 --> 00:07:27.220 do nothing. Like don't do anything. Just let 00:07:27.220 --> 00:07:30.439 them figure it out. Don't be all quick to jump 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:33.100 in. And they, and I'm watching, I'm watching 00:07:33.100 --> 00:07:35.480 the person and they're standing there. They cannot 00:07:35.480 --> 00:07:38.800 control themselves. They start inching toward 00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:41.500 the pile. The second the puppy doesn't hit the 00:07:41.500 --> 00:07:44.639 right tin, they're starting to walk it. I'm like, 00:07:44.680 --> 00:07:48.189 no, no, right. Even if the puppy hits the right 00:07:48.189 --> 00:07:50.949 tin and like walks away, they're like so apt 00:07:50.949 --> 00:07:53.810 to like jump in and help or like freaked out. 00:07:53.889 --> 00:07:56.569 And I'm like, just wait. I don't know what it 00:07:56.569 --> 00:08:01.009 is. It's like this like total, I don't know, 00:08:01.029 --> 00:08:04.389 fear of failure. Well, you did make a really 00:08:04.389 --> 00:08:10.209 good point that I want to reemphasize. It's that 00:08:10.209 --> 00:08:14.230 whole we we don't want them to learn the incorrect 00:08:14.230 --> 00:08:17.649 behavior or practice the incorrect behavior. 00:08:17.829 --> 00:08:21.689 But your point was outstanding. They are not 00:08:21.689 --> 00:08:25.170 practicing. They are learning. And there's a 00:08:25.170 --> 00:08:29.670 huge difference. Yeah. Right. Between learning 00:08:29.670 --> 00:08:36.070 and practicing. When you learn, it gets messy. 00:08:36.690 --> 00:08:40.669 Right. Like, if only people could just apply 00:08:40.669 --> 00:08:44.049 their own experience to the dog's experience. 00:08:44.230 --> 00:08:49.250 Like, it's messy when you're learning. And it's 00:08:49.250 --> 00:08:54.590 okay to be messy, right? You're not practicing 00:08:54.590 --> 00:08:57.549 the wrong behavior over and over. Now, if the 00:08:57.549 --> 00:09:01.779 puppy... left you know that example i gave earlier 00:09:01.779 --> 00:09:04.480 where it wandered away from the mat if it just 00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:06.980 like wandered away and never came back all right 00:09:06.980 --> 00:09:09.639 i'd have to modify something a little bit i wouldn't 00:09:09.639 --> 00:09:11.740 like go completely off the rails but i would 00:09:11.740 --> 00:09:18.259 modify something right but or if every time i 00:09:18.259 --> 00:09:22.120 sent the puppy it wandered away and then eventually 00:09:22.120 --> 00:09:25.759 came back, I would modify something. But the 00:09:25.759 --> 00:09:28.899 puppy is learning. And I do the same thing with 00:09:28.899 --> 00:09:32.360 an adult dog, right? Like it's learning. So let 00:09:32.360 --> 00:09:35.899 it kind of like, you know, get a little weird. 00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:38.720 And then, oh, look, it figured it out. Like, 00:09:38.759 --> 00:09:41.639 I can't tell you how many times like this has 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:48.340 happened where like hold is a perfect example, 00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:51.860 right? Like you have an object, you want to teach 00:09:51.860 --> 00:09:55.500 your dog to hold it. So initially you want your 00:09:55.500 --> 00:09:59.740 dog to just put their mouth on it. So the dog 00:09:59.740 --> 00:10:04.100 will open its mouth briefly, briefly, split second, 00:10:04.139 --> 00:10:07.120 put their mouth on the object you're working 00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:08.879 on. It could be a dog. It could be anything. 00:10:08.980 --> 00:10:11.159 It doesn't really matter. Right. And then they 00:10:11.159 --> 00:10:15.539 click and feed. Okay. Except. they click and 00:10:15.539 --> 00:10:18.279 feed that for like 50 reps. And then they're 00:10:18.279 --> 00:10:21.940 like, I can't get duration. Yeah. Because you 00:10:21.940 --> 00:10:25.139 never, because when they wait, cause I do it, 00:10:25.139 --> 00:10:27.320 like you do it two, three times. Now I'm waiting 00:10:27.320 --> 00:10:29.679 for duration. Well that now that I'm waiting 00:10:29.679 --> 00:10:32.320 for duration, it gets a little messy. And then 00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:35.159 this is where people mess up. Right. So now the 00:10:35.159 --> 00:10:37.980 dog puts their mouth on it. Let's go. Well, that's 00:10:37.980 --> 00:10:40.320 not what I wanted. I want duration. Right. So 00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:43.320 I don't say anything. I just wait. Dog pokes 00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:45.299 it with its nose. Nope, that's not what I want. 00:10:45.419 --> 00:10:48.980 I just wait. Dog maybe looks away or goes to 00:10:48.980 --> 00:10:51.240 walk away. I go, nope, come back here. Now people 00:10:51.240 --> 00:10:54.320 start freaking out, right? Nope, I just wait. 00:10:55.480 --> 00:10:58.940 Dog like pushes the dumbbell. I just wait. Now 00:10:58.940 --> 00:11:01.139 when I'm doing with someone, same thing like 00:11:01.139 --> 00:11:04.539 you said, I'm going, wait, wait. Don't do anything. 00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:08.600 Wait. And you can see the person getting so uncomfortable. 00:11:09.220 --> 00:11:12.059 And just when they're about ready to look at 00:11:12.059 --> 00:11:14.899 me and go, I can't take it anymore. The dog puts 00:11:14.899 --> 00:11:17.059 their mouth on the dumbbell and holds it there 00:11:17.059 --> 00:11:19.340 for several seconds, which is what we wanted. 00:11:19.720 --> 00:11:24.039 Bingo. Right. People just can't wait that long. 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:26.259 They can't tell it, but he's walking away, but 00:11:26.259 --> 00:11:28.679 he's doing this, but he's poking. So immediately 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:31.519 they go back to dog, barely puts their mouth 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:34.289 on it. Click. Well, and now you're teaching the 00:11:34.289 --> 00:11:36.850 dog just barely put your mouth on it. Right. 00:11:37.009 --> 00:11:43.649 So all because you can't wait. But that's what 00:11:43.649 --> 00:11:48.809 like you're the dog is just processing like its 00:11:48.809 --> 00:11:52.470 brain is going, hmm, what are the possible answers? 00:11:52.509 --> 00:11:55.509 Is this the answer? No, that didn't work. Yeah. 00:11:55.669 --> 00:11:58.649 Yeah. How about that? Nope. That now sometimes 00:11:58.649 --> 00:12:01.710 when they go, when it appears like they're leaving 00:12:01.710 --> 00:12:04.210 or all those things you want to label it, the 00:12:04.210 --> 00:12:06.950 dog's just processing. Yeah. Right. It's just 00:12:06.950 --> 00:12:10.230 like me yesterday trying to fix the dryer and 00:12:10.230 --> 00:12:12.470 I like couldn't figure something out. I'm like, 00:12:12.509 --> 00:12:15.009 I'm just going to go upstairs for a second. Yeah. 00:12:15.590 --> 00:12:20.190 Right. Yeah. And then I come back and I'm like, 00:12:20.230 --> 00:12:22.690 oh, right. I can do this now. Right. So it's 00:12:22.690 --> 00:12:27.230 the same thing. Like they're just. taking a minute 00:12:27.230 --> 00:12:32.269 to process like give them just it's okay just 00:12:32.269 --> 00:12:38.049 wait it out like and hundreds of times there 00:12:38.049 --> 00:12:41.409 have been scenarios where the person just was 00:12:41.409 --> 00:12:44.049 not gonna wait long enough and I'm standing and 00:12:44.049 --> 00:12:47.029 I make them wait and then the dog has a breakthrough 00:12:47.029 --> 00:12:49.769 and then the dog's really proud and the handler's 00:12:49.769 --> 00:12:53.509 like beyond delighted and surprised right and 00:12:53.509 --> 00:12:59.679 I'm like see Yeah. Yeah. And that's like that 00:12:59.679 --> 00:13:02.539 whole thing, like with, you know, making it harder, 00:13:02.659 --> 00:13:04.919 like I'm harping on this all the time. Like, 00:13:04.980 --> 00:13:10.039 again, like the second I got it at that interval, 00:13:10.279 --> 00:13:14.620 I'm progressing. Like I'm moving on. I'm making 00:13:14.620 --> 00:13:17.179 it harder. Like I'm. And I think you, people 00:13:17.179 --> 00:13:19.879 have to consciously be aware of that in their 00:13:19.879 --> 00:13:23.980 training that you, like, the goal is, like, you 00:13:23.980 --> 00:13:26.679 have your end goal of what you want that end 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:28.919 picture to look like, your behavior, your finished 00:13:28.919 --> 00:13:31.159 product to look like. Like, and even as puppies, 00:13:31.259 --> 00:13:36.250 like, I'm on a... I'm on a time frame. Like it's 00:13:36.250 --> 00:13:38.830 not like the clock's ticking, but eventually 00:13:38.830 --> 00:13:41.929 like I need to get to that place however long 00:13:41.929 --> 00:13:44.789 it takes. So I don't want to sit there forever. 00:13:44.830 --> 00:13:51.210 And if I've got understanding at that millisecond 00:13:51.210 --> 00:13:54.909 piece, like if we freeze frame it and the dog 00:13:54.909 --> 00:13:57.450 has it at that second, I'm moving on. Like I'm 00:13:57.450 --> 00:13:59.330 progressing. People have a really hard time with 00:13:59.330 --> 00:14:02.429 that, I think, because. Then it goes like it's 00:14:02.429 --> 00:14:05.370 like that circling back that vicious cycle like, 00:14:05.450 --> 00:14:07.429 oh, God, well, now I have to do it again. And 00:14:07.429 --> 00:14:09.509 the dog might make a mistake if I push it. Like, 00:14:09.549 --> 00:14:12.710 yeah, that's still a learning process all the 00:14:12.710 --> 00:14:16.769 way up to fluency. Right. Because I always say 00:14:16.769 --> 00:14:20.049 that to people like it's OK. Like if you if the 00:14:20.049 --> 00:14:22.789 dog can't get it, you progress, you went too 00:14:22.789 --> 00:14:26.429 fast or too far. You can always go back, but 00:14:26.429 --> 00:14:29.870 you don't want to stay there. Right. You need 00:14:29.870 --> 00:14:33.149 to be OK with moving, making it harder, moving 00:14:33.149 --> 00:14:36.450 on progression. Well, it's that whole reinforcement 00:14:36.450 --> 00:14:41.230 thing for humans. Right. Like like today. And 00:14:41.230 --> 00:14:45.549 because I'm aware. So I took my dogs to Lowe's 00:14:45.549 --> 00:14:50.470 and I trained them. And Zesty was like lights 00:14:50.470 --> 00:14:54.909 out. Right. First time in a long time. So he 00:14:54.909 --> 00:15:01.970 was like, awesome. And I'm in there and I'm like, 00:15:02.090 --> 00:15:06.750 okay, you're done. And I felt this urge to do 00:15:06.750 --> 00:15:10.409 more. Even when I put him back in the car, I 00:15:10.409 --> 00:15:14.009 was like, I know why I want to do more because 00:15:14.009 --> 00:15:18.029 that felt so good. I want to feel more of that. 00:15:18.309 --> 00:15:23.850 But that's me. That's a me problem, right? That's 00:15:23.850 --> 00:15:29.909 a me enjoying wanting more ice cream. But it's 00:15:29.909 --> 00:15:33.850 not the best training strategy. It's actually 00:15:33.850 --> 00:15:37.789 the worst training strategy is drilling. And 00:15:37.789 --> 00:15:40.169 this was part of in the book, too, where it's 00:15:40.169 --> 00:15:42.750 like this book I read. And it's about, you know, 00:15:42.750 --> 00:15:46.889 just doing reps, reps, reps, reps, reps feels 00:15:46.889 --> 00:15:49.950 good. And it feels like you're making progress 00:15:49.950 --> 00:15:53.879 in the. short term, but in the long term, the 00:15:53.879 --> 00:15:57.000 retention tends to be poor. The retention is 00:15:57.000 --> 00:16:01.659 better if you do less reps. And even if you stop 00:16:01.659 --> 00:16:07.480 your reps before they're good. So for example, 00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:10.860 if I'm training my dog like a drop and he made 00:16:10.860 --> 00:16:14.120 a little progress on the drop, but it's not where 00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:18.500 I need it to be, but I stop anyway. and then 00:16:18.500 --> 00:16:21.779 pick it up another time that that's way they 00:16:21.779 --> 00:16:25.259 dogs have better learning long -term that way. 00:16:25.659 --> 00:16:28.519 Then if I say, Oh, I'm going to do another one 00:16:28.519 --> 00:16:30.539 and another one, it's almost, it's better, but 00:16:30.539 --> 00:16:33.179 it's another one. And so whether I'm doing it 00:16:33.179 --> 00:16:35.759 because I'm trying to get a better outcome on 00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:39.320 that task in the session, or I'm doing it because 00:16:39.320 --> 00:16:43.289 it feels good to see my dog get it right. over 00:16:43.289 --> 00:16:48.870 and over, in both cases, it is not the best training 00:16:48.870 --> 00:16:54.450 strategy. Right. Right. Which is easy for us 00:16:54.450 --> 00:16:58.190 to do. Very easy for us to do. Or we get into 00:16:58.190 --> 00:17:01.070 that, like, it feels good. Or we're like, I need 00:17:01.070 --> 00:17:03.429 to make sure this is this is actually solid. 00:17:04.769 --> 00:17:07.230 Like, yeah. And I was like, well, wait, can you 00:17:07.230 --> 00:17:09.230 do it on the fourth? Like, let's make sure you 00:17:09.230 --> 00:17:11.569 can do it 10 times solid. And then it's like. 00:17:12.269 --> 00:17:14.750 And they can't. And what happens, and I see this 00:17:14.750 --> 00:17:17.349 all the time, this is why I have a rule of threes 00:17:17.349 --> 00:17:20.490 with my students. You are not allowed to do more 00:17:20.490 --> 00:17:23.410 than three correct reps ever. And I'm really 00:17:23.410 --> 00:17:27.109 big on one and done, right? Like I'm huge on 00:17:27.109 --> 00:17:30.470 one and done. But like, if you absolutely like 00:17:30.470 --> 00:17:34.069 are having like a seizure, don't do more than 00:17:34.069 --> 00:17:41.160 three. What I've done is hard. Like it's hard 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:44.019 for me too. I'll be like, oh my God, that was 00:17:44.019 --> 00:17:46.880 perfect. I guess I should move on to something 00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:50.319 else. Like it's so hard. But if you think about 00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:53.900 it, well, a couple of things happen. One is it's 00:17:53.900 --> 00:17:58.119 almost for some dogs like Zaina, it becomes like 00:17:58.119 --> 00:18:02.160 a punisher because she did it perfectly. And 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:05.940 then she's like, I can see her rolling her eyes. 00:18:05.980 --> 00:18:10.670 Like, really? Again? Yeah. For other dogs, they 00:18:10.670 --> 00:18:15.549 start to second guess. Right. And the work actually 00:18:15.549 --> 00:18:19.529 degrades. And now you have to say to the dog, 00:18:19.569 --> 00:18:22.410 that's not right. And you kind of wiped out all 00:18:22.410 --> 00:18:26.289 those beautiful wraps the dog just did. Yeah. 00:18:26.670 --> 00:18:29.309 So that's one scenario. The other thing is they 00:18:29.309 --> 00:18:31.910 start second guessing. So they start like doing 00:18:31.910 --> 00:18:35.109 weird things. Right. Where they're like. And 00:18:35.109 --> 00:18:37.609 the other thing is just mental fatigue. Right. 00:18:37.670 --> 00:18:43.579 Like. When I'm learning a motor skill, like the 00:18:43.579 --> 00:18:46.980 last time I went shooting, there comes a point 00:18:46.980 --> 00:18:50.660 where I can feel my accuracy starts to go downhill. 00:18:50.980 --> 00:18:55.000 And as soon as that happens, I stop. Because 00:18:55.000 --> 00:19:02.079 I just exhausted the good reps I had in my nervous 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:07.980 and motor system. So if I keep going... Now I 00:19:07.980 --> 00:19:12.180 am rehearsing what I don't want. So what is the 00:19:12.180 --> 00:19:16.480 point? Right? Like, I don't care if I have more 00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:20.440 rental time. I don't care. Like, I'm done. It's 00:19:20.440 --> 00:19:25.400 good. I'm done. Yeah. But we should be like, 00:19:25.700 --> 00:19:29.420 I don't know why we don't flip our brains going 00:19:29.420 --> 00:19:32.119 like, wow, that was amazing. I did it once and 00:19:32.119 --> 00:19:33.900 I don't have to do it again. Like, we don't go 00:19:33.900 --> 00:19:40.839 there. Yeah. Well, this book, it showed that 00:19:40.839 --> 00:19:43.440 even when they did these studies and then showed 00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:47.559 the students the results of the studies and explained 00:19:47.559 --> 00:19:49.839 it to them, et cetera, et cetera, they still 00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:53.420 had this tendency to want to drill anyway. So 00:19:53.420 --> 00:19:58.299 it's a weird human tendency, which. We just need 00:19:58.299 --> 00:20:01.440 to be aware of, right? Like if we're aware of 00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:05.000 it and we need to be willing to try it because 00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:11.400 what I found with Zest when he was young was 00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:14.759 if he's trying to figure something out and then 00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:19.180 he kind of gets it, then I just stop, right? 00:20:19.500 --> 00:20:22.279 Because if I kept going, it would always get 00:20:22.279 --> 00:20:26.079 like really ugly. So I said, all right, I'm just 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:29.059 going to stop. Like he just kind of did it. Maybe 00:20:29.059 --> 00:20:31.180 sort of whatever. I'm just going to stop. Come 00:20:31.180 --> 00:20:34.400 back the next day. He could do it. Yeah. And 00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:36.859 that happened several times. And then I went, 00:20:36.940 --> 00:20:40.480 okay, got it. Like I am, he is, he does better 00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:45.619 with just leave it, move on to something else, 00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:48.920 leave that, move on to something else and then 00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:53.930 let him sleep on it. And then come back and he's 00:20:53.930 --> 00:20:56.890 got it. And a lot of dogs are like that, but 00:20:56.890 --> 00:21:01.549 we just never even try it. We are given the chance. 00:21:01.549 --> 00:21:07.230 Yeah. To see if it works or not. Definitely. 00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:10.799 You know, I think, too, like, another thing is, 00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:14.559 like, I feel like when we really let the dogs 00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:17.000 try to puzzle stuff out without us spoon -feeding 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:21.160 all that, like, you really do learn a bunch about 00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:23.819 who your dog is, you know, through that process. 00:21:24.039 --> 00:21:27.940 You really, like, how they learn best. I think 00:21:27.940 --> 00:21:31.259 that's a big thing because you're watching them 00:21:31.259 --> 00:21:35.630 actually. learn and figure it out in that moment. 00:21:35.769 --> 00:21:37.769 You're actually like, I mean, hopefully you're 00:21:37.769 --> 00:21:40.990 observing that, you know, and seeing what kind 00:21:40.990 --> 00:21:44.250 of learner they really are. Do they get frustrated? 00:21:44.369 --> 00:21:47.690 Like what's their frustration threshold or tolerance 00:21:47.690 --> 00:21:51.750 or, you know? do they need, do they do things 00:21:51.750 --> 00:21:54.410 like, like that was a big thing with salty. Like 00:21:54.410 --> 00:21:56.730 when he couldn't get something, he would just 00:21:56.730 --> 00:21:58.970 walk away and I'd be like, Holy shit. Like, where's 00:21:58.970 --> 00:22:01.430 he going? But he would come back. And it was 00:22:01.430 --> 00:22:03.250 like the first time I was the first couple of 00:22:03.250 --> 00:22:05.609 times I'm like, Oh Jesus. But that's what he 00:22:05.609 --> 00:22:08.190 needed to do. Like he would just leave, do a 00:22:08.190 --> 00:22:11.069 circle, come back. Like it was his thinking process, 00:22:11.150 --> 00:22:16.339 you know? So you're like really paying attention, 00:22:16.700 --> 00:22:18.599 like you just said with Zest, like you figured 00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:21.720 that out when he was young by just letting him 00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:26.059 figure stuff out. Well, it's like you just said, 00:22:26.119 --> 00:22:30.180 it's being willing to be an observer, number 00:22:30.180 --> 00:22:32.740 one. Right. Which means you're not interfering. 00:22:32.859 --> 00:22:36.039 You're just kind of interpreting what you're 00:22:36.039 --> 00:22:39.960 watching, watching it and just going like, huh, 00:22:40.220 --> 00:22:43.619 like. That's interesting. I wonder why he did 00:22:43.619 --> 00:22:48.559 that without interfering. Right. And then after 00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:52.140 a while, you're like, oh, I can see why that's 00:22:52.140 --> 00:22:55.619 happening. But if you're interfering, then you're 00:22:55.619 --> 00:22:58.339 never going to get that information. Or if you're 00:22:58.339 --> 00:23:01.500 having this like, well, I'm observing it, but 00:23:01.500 --> 00:23:04.380 why is he doing it? I can't believe he let me. 00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:07.859 Like and you're getting all in your head. Right. 00:23:08.019 --> 00:23:12.380 You're not being an object. objective observer. 00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:16.640 It's actually now like one of my favorite things 00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:19.599 to do is really just watch the dogs try to figure 00:23:19.599 --> 00:23:22.440 stuff out. I think it's so fascinating because 00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:25.140 I think they all do things differently and they 00:23:25.140 --> 00:23:26.880 all go about things differently and it's just 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:30.920 fun to watch them. Because they, to me, like 00:23:30.920 --> 00:23:33.059 they are, I feel like they're natural problem 00:23:33.059 --> 00:23:36.779 solvers. Like they're opportunists to begin with. 00:23:36.819 --> 00:23:40.059 And I think that we just don't give them that 00:23:40.059 --> 00:23:42.619 chance enough. I just find it, I think it's, 00:23:42.619 --> 00:23:44.839 I know you do too. It's just incredible to watch 00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:50.519 them. Well, and solving problems creates confidence. 00:23:50.619 --> 00:23:53.200 Well, it teaches the dog how to learn. It teaches 00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:56.099 the dog how to push through adversity. Right. 00:23:56.200 --> 00:24:00.180 It teaches the dog resilience. They have to learn 00:24:00.180 --> 00:24:03.180 to deal with frustration. Right. And that's not 00:24:03.180 --> 00:24:06.160 a bad thing. That's important. It's an important 00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:10.839 skill. Like, no, don't just give up. Don't just 00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:13.279 bail. Don't just stand there and wait for me 00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:16.259 to solve your problem. Like, figure it out. Yeah, 00:24:16.359 --> 00:24:18.519 you're a little frustrated. It's OK. You're not 00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:20.299 going to die. You're going to figure it out. 00:24:20.359 --> 00:24:23.000 And they get better and better and better at 00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:26.460 it. Um, those are really important skills. People 00:24:26.460 --> 00:24:29.259 want dogs that are resilient in the ring. How 00:24:29.259 --> 00:24:32.000 do I get a confident dog? How do I get a resilient 00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:35.740 dog? Well, a stop micromanaging them, let them 00:24:35.740 --> 00:24:39.839 solve some problems, like make it challenging. 00:24:39.940 --> 00:24:42.940 If you make it too easy and the dog never struggles, 00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:45.259 the dog's never going to learn how to push through 00:24:45.259 --> 00:24:54.900 and how to solve the problem. a lot of which 00:24:54.900 --> 00:24:57.799 I wish I had done this years ago. I don't know 00:24:57.799 --> 00:25:00.319 why, because that's just, it wasn't how it was 00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:05.220 done, right? Traditionally, you teach your dog 00:25:05.220 --> 00:25:08.460 behaviors in isolation, like in your training 00:25:08.460 --> 00:25:10.339 building, in your house, wherever you normally 00:25:10.339 --> 00:25:13.440 train, low distraction level, teach the dog the 00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:17.180 skills. Teach it there until the dog really knows 00:25:17.180 --> 00:25:21.440 the skill. Then later down the road, add challenges 00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:23.640 to it. Well, if you think about it, that makes 00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:27.400 absolutely no sense on two levels. One, you're 00:25:27.400 --> 00:25:32.359 teaching the dog context. In this context, a 00:25:32.359 --> 00:25:35.960 pristine environment, you do these behaviors 00:25:35.960 --> 00:25:39.099 when I give you these cues. Then you completely 00:25:39.099 --> 00:25:42.720 change the context. You'll completely change 00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:44.839 the picture. And you're like, now do these same 00:25:44.839 --> 00:25:46.799 behaviors here. And the dog's like, wait, I don't 00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:48.480 even know where I am. I don't even know what's 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:49.980 happening. I don't even know what I'm doing. 00:25:50.279 --> 00:25:54.240 Right. Right. So you're, so that's a lot harder 00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:59.859 for them. And like, again, you're teaching them 00:25:59.859 --> 00:26:02.680 in a clean environment. So maybe you're shaping, 00:26:02.779 --> 00:26:05.880 maybe you're making it, but it's still not that 00:26:05.880 --> 00:26:11.390 hard. So what we've been doing is. right out 00:26:11.390 --> 00:26:15.089 of the gate right I don't care if there's noise 00:26:15.089 --> 00:26:18.210 I don't care if there's other so like um my poor 00:26:18.210 --> 00:26:20.750 Zio not poor Zio I mean he lived a good life 00:26:20.750 --> 00:26:24.609 but he's gone now poor me because I miss him 00:26:24.609 --> 00:26:28.470 but my old dog like when my training partner 00:26:28.470 --> 00:26:33.569 would train her puppy he was out and he was doing 00:26:33.569 --> 00:26:36.789 his like old dog retrieves and you know because 00:26:36.789 --> 00:26:40.220 he still wanted to work so I would work him and 00:26:40.220 --> 00:26:44.579 she would train her puppy on purpose. So she, 00:26:44.759 --> 00:26:49.059 her puppy got used to, oh, dog runs around, dumbbell 00:26:49.059 --> 00:26:53.240 flies, person saying down, sit, stand, motion, 00:26:53.339 --> 00:26:58.740 like stuff happens, right? If we had put tennis 00:26:58.740 --> 00:27:01.019 balls out as a distraction, the tennis balls 00:27:01.019 --> 00:27:03.359 were out, right? If the puppy ran and looked 00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:06.400 at a tennis ball, who cared? Eventually it learned. 00:27:06.859 --> 00:27:09.019 Sometimes there's tennis balls out. Sometimes 00:27:09.019 --> 00:27:11.920 there's toys out. Sometimes there's weird little 00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:16.019 creatures that like the hip hop duck that does 00:27:16.019 --> 00:27:22.660 hip hop and goes around and like stuff is always 00:27:22.660 --> 00:27:26.220 happening. And the most fascinating thing happened 00:27:26.220 --> 00:27:34.240 is this dog all on its own went, oh. When stuff 00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:37.740 happens, I pay better attention. I really need 00:27:37.740 --> 00:27:41.759 to focus in on mom. So the dog started to say, 00:27:41.940 --> 00:27:45.079 oh, when this distraction comes, I need to give 00:27:45.079 --> 00:27:49.779 my mother more engagement. All on its own, it 00:27:49.779 --> 00:27:55.220 figured that out. This dog is so bomb -proof, 00:27:55.519 --> 00:27:59.359 like in terms of environmental stuff, like so 00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:05.589 bomb -proof. because it just it's been like that 00:28:05.589 --> 00:28:10.130 from day one like that's just how this dog was 00:28:10.130 --> 00:28:13.809 trained and that's how the dog continues to be 00:28:13.809 --> 00:28:16.670 trained another thing with this dog is it makes 00:28:16.670 --> 00:28:20.930 a mistake in training right and we're just like 00:28:20.930 --> 00:28:23.670 nope that's not the right behavior it goes okay 00:28:23.670 --> 00:28:27.230 comes back it figures out how to do it right 00:28:27.230 --> 00:28:30.519 it doesn't fall apart Doesn't have a nervous 00:28:30.519 --> 00:28:33.859 breakdown. It's not like, oh, God, I messed up. 00:28:33.900 --> 00:28:37.759 It's like, oh, I made a mistake. No, I get it. 00:28:37.819 --> 00:28:41.279 A mistake just means do a different behavior. 00:28:42.299 --> 00:28:47.440 Right. Definitely. Yeah, that dog is really awesome. 00:28:47.619 --> 00:28:50.940 I mean, that dog actually came when we had our 00:28:50.940 --> 00:28:56.839 first NOC training party at my building. I mean, 00:28:56.859 --> 00:28:59.980 it was fucking crazy. Like, we had multiple, 00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:02.819 multiple rings. Like, little tiny rings going 00:29:02.819 --> 00:29:05.420 with things going in every ring all the time. 00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:09.119 And that dog participated as a full exhibitor 00:29:09.119 --> 00:29:12.500 and did really, really well. She's not even two 00:29:12.500 --> 00:29:16.180 yet, I don't think, right? No. And she did everything 00:29:16.180 --> 00:29:21.660 well. Like, really well. with the rest of us 00:29:21.660 --> 00:29:24.279 it was really it was really cool yeah and it's 00:29:24.279 --> 00:29:27.859 because that's how that dog got trained from 00:29:27.859 --> 00:29:33.200 day one and we like would purposefully like she 00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:35.640 would send the dog to the go out and I would 00:29:35.640 --> 00:29:37.859 walk in front of the go out. I'd have my dog 00:29:37.859 --> 00:29:39.920 in front of the, like all the proofing stuff 00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:43.680 we do with adult dogs that we didn't do it in 00:29:43.680 --> 00:29:45.900 a sense of like, again, you have to use discretion, 00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:47.980 like where we completely overwhelmed the dog. 00:29:48.099 --> 00:29:52.700 Yeah. Stuff was just always there. And it just 00:29:52.700 --> 00:29:57.859 learned that that's just the way it is. Yeah. 00:29:58.220 --> 00:30:01.769 Yeah. And that's the thing, like. I know like 00:30:01.769 --> 00:30:05.509 my breeder of Ever and Salty, Kate, who we've 00:30:05.509 --> 00:30:08.809 had on our podcast, like, I mean, training sessions 00:30:08.809 --> 00:30:12.869 too, like she runs a really busy business, you 00:30:12.869 --> 00:30:15.589 know? And a lot of times like with her, when 00:30:15.589 --> 00:30:17.430 she's raising up her puppies and stuff, like. 00:30:18.029 --> 00:30:21.869 Um, she just doesn't have windows that fit perfectly 00:30:21.869 --> 00:30:25.250 for having like ideal training environment or 00:30:25.250 --> 00:30:28.670 whatever. So her puppies are always like just 00:30:28.670 --> 00:30:31.170 whenever, whatever's happening in the kennel 00:30:31.170 --> 00:30:33.150 or whatever's happening in the building or whatever's 00:30:33.150 --> 00:30:35.089 happening, like with daycare drop off, like those, 00:30:35.130 --> 00:30:37.569 the puppies are out and they're doing their stuff. 00:30:37.589 --> 00:30:39.470 Like, and she's working them through all that 00:30:39.470 --> 00:30:42.890 because a, she doesn't really have the flexibility 00:30:42.890 --> 00:30:46.690 and. The advantage of just picking and choosing 00:30:46.690 --> 00:30:49.289 her times because she's so busy and the puppies 00:30:49.289 --> 00:30:53.130 like that's just and that's sort of how like 00:30:53.130 --> 00:30:55.349 that when I got salty, it was kind of the same 00:30:55.349 --> 00:30:58.630 way I had gotten the business in the building 00:30:58.630 --> 00:31:00.930 and I was showing two dogs or in training all 00:31:00.930 --> 00:31:04.289 the dogs and life got freaking create like chaotic 00:31:04.289 --> 00:31:08.150 and I I didn't have like opportune moments all 00:31:08.150 --> 00:31:11.599 the time like. when you guys all came to train 00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:14.359 at the building like I took him out and trained 00:31:14.359 --> 00:31:17.259 him like dumbbells are flying and like I love 00:31:17.259 --> 00:31:20.500 that now like that's definitely I definitely 00:31:20.500 --> 00:31:23.700 see that he's like that's beneficial for him 00:31:23.700 --> 00:31:26.920 since we started doing that and that's definitely 00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:28.440 what I'm going to be doing for the rest of all 00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:31.940 my you know next future puppies for sure yeah 00:31:31.940 --> 00:31:36.000 like And my, like when my puppy comes, it's gone. 00:31:36.119 --> 00:31:38.460 I mean, I always did train it. Like when I had 00:31:38.460 --> 00:31:41.319 my rehab, right, it was connected to the kennels. 00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:43.900 Puppies just train there. Dogs are barking, stuff's 00:31:43.900 --> 00:31:49.000 going on. But at some point I did do more, you 00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:51.480 know, oh no, have to teach this first. Like, 00:31:51.500 --> 00:31:54.099 no, I'm going to be training this dog at the 00:31:54.099 --> 00:31:57.380 stores, in the parking lot. It's going to be 00:31:57.380 --> 00:32:01.890 going. You know, when, like with my training 00:32:01.890 --> 00:32:05.930 partners, when we set stuff up, then when it's 00:32:05.930 --> 00:32:08.089 a puppy's turn, that same, I'm not putting this 00:32:08.089 --> 00:32:11.289 stuff away. I'm not going to be like, clean up 00:32:11.289 --> 00:32:14.849 the toy. No, it's all going to stay out. I'm 00:32:14.849 --> 00:32:16.789 going to tell my training partners, move around. 00:32:17.269 --> 00:32:20.509 I'm going to say, you know, take a dog out and 00:32:20.509 --> 00:32:23.509 train that dog while I'm training this dog. Like 00:32:23.509 --> 00:32:27.690 this dog is just going to learn that. you know, 00:32:27.690 --> 00:32:31.029 you can learn and you can, again, it's just another 00:32:31.029 --> 00:32:34.829 form of solving problems. And it's just making, 00:32:35.009 --> 00:32:40.730 you know, making the dog more resilient. And 00:32:40.730 --> 00:32:43.650 I feel like if the dog just learns, like, that's 00:32:43.650 --> 00:32:45.950 how it is, then that's just how it is. And then 00:32:45.950 --> 00:32:48.490 one day down the road, when it sees ring picture, 00:32:48.710 --> 00:32:50.849 it's not going to be like, holy heck, like, what 00:32:50.849 --> 00:32:53.690 the hell is this? Right. And I think that's a 00:32:53.690 --> 00:32:57.809 big thing too, is like, you know, like you said, 00:32:57.869 --> 00:33:01.589 like the way that things were done in the past 00:33:01.589 --> 00:33:03.970 was, you know, we train everything in isolation. 00:33:04.509 --> 00:33:07.430 We train all the things where there's no distractions. 00:33:07.789 --> 00:33:10.769 And then at some point in the dog's career, like 00:33:10.769 --> 00:33:13.009 as we're getting close to like possibly thinking 00:33:13.009 --> 00:33:15.490 about showing the dog where, oh shit, we got 00:33:15.490 --> 00:33:19.210 to generalize everything. Like now that years 00:33:19.210 --> 00:33:22.369 have gone by, let's totally dramatically change 00:33:22.369 --> 00:33:25.309 the picture on the dog. Yes. And now let's make 00:33:25.309 --> 00:33:29.519 it hard. Which, you know, OK, if you didn't do 00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:31.940 it when they were young, you still got you still 00:33:31.940 --> 00:33:34.039 have to go do that. You still have to make it 00:33:34.039 --> 00:33:36.599 challenging. Right. Like proofing. I mean, that's 00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:41.599 huge. But if we can do it earlier, even better 00:33:41.599 --> 00:33:45.859 or earlier, like today I was doing we were in 00:33:45.859 --> 00:33:48.819 my garage and I was doing this nose work thing 00:33:48.819 --> 00:33:54.779 where there's boxes and there's. I'm just laughing 00:33:54.779 --> 00:33:59.599 because I have labs right so now at the next 00:33:59.599 --> 00:34:02.940 level they have to you put a box out that's got 00:34:02.940 --> 00:34:06.940 like food in it oh good lord help me right so 00:34:06.940 --> 00:34:10.980 like and it could be so today my my friend brought 00:34:10.980 --> 00:34:14.719 cat food apparently cat food's very exciting 00:34:14.719 --> 00:34:20.139 so um So ignore the box with the cat food, find 00:34:20.139 --> 00:34:22.300 the box with the odor, right? So anyway, Zest 00:34:22.300 --> 00:34:25.019 is in there doing a search and her dog was laying 00:34:25.019 --> 00:34:28.019 down and her dog like got up and just started 00:34:28.019 --> 00:34:30.619 wandering around. And she's like, oh my God. 00:34:30.679 --> 00:34:33.199 I said, leave her out there. I don't care that 00:34:33.199 --> 00:34:36.199 she's walking around the pile. Zesty can figure 00:34:36.199 --> 00:34:40.460 it out. Like he should not care that this other 00:34:40.460 --> 00:34:42.340 dog is walking through the pile. Is that going 00:34:42.340 --> 00:34:45.860 to happen in a trial? No, but. I don't care. 00:34:45.860 --> 00:34:48.000 Just going to make him concentrate even that 00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:54.619 much harder. So like he's new to the nose work 00:34:54.619 --> 00:34:57.920 thing, but I don't care. I'm doing that. He doesn't 00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:00.719 even have his NW one yet. His he's not in a child 00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:02.840 till the end of the month. This is not an NW 00:35:02.840 --> 00:35:05.440 one thing. This is a harder thing. So what I'm 00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:08.320 making it harder. He's going to, and he's, you 00:35:08.320 --> 00:35:10.639 know, they both, my dogs, they can figure it 00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:14.530 out. And even my training partner with her dog, 00:35:14.690 --> 00:35:17.449 like she's like, Oh, this is the first time I'm 00:35:17.449 --> 00:35:19.869 doing it. So we did this yesterday. She's like, 00:35:19.869 --> 00:35:22.110 I'm going to, I looked at her. I go, I'm like, 00:35:22.150 --> 00:35:25.130 Riley, you don't have to make it that easy. She 00:35:25.130 --> 00:35:27.489 could figure it out. And she did. The dog did. 00:35:27.550 --> 00:35:29.550 The dog figured it out really fast. And I said, 00:35:29.590 --> 00:35:31.329 see, you were making it too easy. She's like, 00:35:31.429 --> 00:35:33.989 yeah, I know. I realized that now. Like it's 00:35:33.989 --> 00:35:38.920 this weird thing where we're always. making it 00:35:38.920 --> 00:35:42.699 too easy now again I'm not saying overwhelm your 00:35:42.699 --> 00:35:47.880 dog or set your dog up for massive failure and 00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:52.820 overwhelm yeah but right you almost that our 00:35:52.820 --> 00:35:58.000 natural inclination is making it too simple And 00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:00.420 then even when the dog were like, are the dogs 00:36:00.420 --> 00:36:03.639 easily doing it, doing multiple. I looked around. 00:36:03.719 --> 00:36:05.920 I'm like, you're doing another rep this simple. 00:36:06.019 --> 00:36:08.019 I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Here, let me put 00:36:08.019 --> 00:36:10.119 some more down. And she's like, oh, she did it. 00:36:10.179 --> 00:36:15.500 Yeah, no. Yeah, she did. Like, it's so fascinating 00:36:15.500 --> 00:36:20.199 to me. Like, if it was too hard, we would have 00:36:20.199 --> 00:36:23.400 just made it easier. Right. Well, that's the 00:36:23.400 --> 00:36:25.980 thing. You can always go back and make it easier. 00:36:26.300 --> 00:36:29.780 Modify. For sure. Yeah. And that's the whole 00:36:29.780 --> 00:36:33.000 thing. Like, it's not like if it's too hard, 00:36:33.199 --> 00:36:38.079 we ruined the dog permanently. Right. Yeah. We 00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:44.219 just made it too hard. Yeah. And just, again, 00:36:44.599 --> 00:36:48.639 like, let's just reiterate, like, we're not throwing 00:36:48.639 --> 00:36:50.880 them totally under the bus and putting them in 00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:55.800 situations that are possibly going to. I don't 00:36:55.800 --> 00:36:57.679 know how to even say it, like just... Completely 00:36:57.679 --> 00:36:59.420 stress them out or scare them or overwhelm them. 00:36:59.420 --> 00:37:01.800 Yeah, like you don't want to scare them and make 00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:03.940 them... Yeah, like you just have to be a little 00:37:03.940 --> 00:37:06.619 bit mindful of that for when you're starting 00:37:06.619 --> 00:37:10.280 to do that. But, you know, just... I think you 00:37:10.280 --> 00:37:14.510 just... People definitely need to start... being 00:37:14.510 --> 00:37:19.429 a little bit more like open to letting the dogs 00:37:19.429 --> 00:37:21.889 and puppies figure it out more for sure. Like 00:37:21.889 --> 00:37:24.750 it's okay if it's going to, it will go like for 00:37:24.750 --> 00:37:28.130 sure. Unless you have that genius puppy who's 00:37:28.130 --> 00:37:31.090 going to like just figure it all out like a brainiac, 00:37:31.110 --> 00:37:33.230 the first whatever, but you're going to have 00:37:33.230 --> 00:37:36.769 fallout. Definitely. It's okay. Totally okay. 00:37:38.590 --> 00:37:41.309 Yeah. And I think that's, that's the piece people 00:37:41.309 --> 00:37:44.789 have to. They just have to be OK with the mess. 00:37:44.909 --> 00:37:48.210 I mean, I find it fascinating that humans as 00:37:48.210 --> 00:37:51.789 trainers struggle like they constantly make mistakes. 00:37:51.889 --> 00:37:56.130 They constantly like get frustrated. You know. 00:37:58.110 --> 00:38:02.070 But it's like weird how they can't see that, 00:38:02.150 --> 00:38:04.889 but then eventually they get better. Right. Because 00:38:04.889 --> 00:38:08.239 that's the process. And they can't but yet they 00:38:08.239 --> 00:38:12.039 can't see that like that's OK for the dog. Right. 00:38:12.099 --> 00:38:17.079 Like for the dog, they're like constantly in 00:38:17.079 --> 00:38:19.739 a in a panic. So I think you have to remember, 00:38:19.940 --> 00:38:25.179 A, the science says, you know, that making it 00:38:25.179 --> 00:38:28.360 hard is actually very beneficial, especially 00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:31.599 for long term learning, making it challenging. 00:38:31.940 --> 00:38:37.820 Right. That mistakes. are within reason are again 00:38:37.820 --> 00:38:41.380 they're beneficial they're in a really productive 00:38:41.380 --> 00:38:46.920 part of learning like there's nothing wrong with 00:38:46.920 --> 00:38:51.059 that um and that like you said like if we're 00:38:51.059 --> 00:38:53.820 not like constantly pushing them pushing them 00:38:53.820 --> 00:38:57.300 then we just get stuck and stagnate and then 00:38:57.300 --> 00:39:02.010 the dogs get like bored or frustrated We're like, 00:39:02.250 --> 00:39:04.929 oh, we don't know what to do. Well, that's because 00:39:04.929 --> 00:39:07.929 you're afraid because you're afraid that when 00:39:07.929 --> 00:39:10.829 you push it and it falls apart a little bit, 00:39:10.889 --> 00:39:14.690 you're panicking. Stop panicking. Stop panicking 00:39:14.690 --> 00:39:17.730 and also stop caring what other people think. 00:39:17.869 --> 00:39:20.230 That's another one, too, because that's a big 00:39:20.230 --> 00:39:22.530 one. Your dog makes a mistake and everyone's 00:39:22.530 --> 00:39:26.969 like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. Chill out. I know. 00:39:28.079 --> 00:39:31.699 yeah well and it's like and I it's kind of similar 00:39:31.699 --> 00:39:34.019 what you said earlier like I'll hear people say 00:39:34.019 --> 00:39:37.000 like um or I'll have a student she's like well 00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:38.980 I don't want my dog to do that in the ring I'm 00:39:38.980 --> 00:39:41.719 like dude your dog's a year old I don't think 00:39:41.719 --> 00:39:44.219 we need to be worrying about this right now like 00:39:44.219 --> 00:39:48.639 literally right like come on it'll be fine worse 00:39:48.639 --> 00:39:53.719 it's like that whole learning piece right like 00:39:54.510 --> 00:39:59.449 It's the dog is learning. It's OK. It does. It's 00:39:59.449 --> 00:40:01.929 not supposed to come out of the womb and do it 00:40:01.929 --> 00:40:04.730 perfectly. It's not supposed to do it perfectly 00:40:04.730 --> 00:40:07.769 in a year or in two years. Like it's just it's 00:40:07.769 --> 00:40:11.250 part of the process. Like it'll get there. It's 00:40:11.250 --> 00:40:15.469 going to get there at some point. But, you know, 00:40:15.489 --> 00:40:22.179 if you're constantly micromanaging. You're going 00:40:22.179 --> 00:40:26.360 to have a huge, huge problem on your hands because 00:40:26.360 --> 00:40:31.599 the dog is going to learn that when I'm not sure, 00:40:31.739 --> 00:40:36.119 when I'm conflicted, when I'm worried, when it's 00:40:36.119 --> 00:40:39.900 hard, all of these things happen when a dog is 00:40:39.900 --> 00:40:42.860 competing. I'm just going to stand here and do 00:40:42.860 --> 00:40:46.900 nothing. And my mom or dad are going to bail 00:40:46.900 --> 00:40:49.559 me out. Well, good luck with that when you're 00:40:49.559 --> 00:40:56.559 in the ring. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so let it 00:40:56.559 --> 00:41:03.880 be. When I have my proofing class, which I don't 00:41:03.880 --> 00:41:05.780 call proofing anymore because, you know, the 00:41:05.780 --> 00:41:08.840 old way of proofing is you set the dog up to 00:41:08.840 --> 00:41:10.760 be wrong and then you tell them they're bad. 00:41:11.309 --> 00:41:14.389 But where we start adding challenges to behaviors, 00:41:14.570 --> 00:41:18.489 which actually makes the behavior stronger and 00:41:18.489 --> 00:41:21.590 makes the dog more confident if it's done correctly. 00:41:22.610 --> 00:41:26.610 At first, first week or two, I'm always like, 00:41:26.670 --> 00:41:28.730 make it harder, make it harder. It's okay. Your 00:41:28.730 --> 00:41:30.989 dog can do it. People are like hesitant. They're 00:41:30.989 --> 00:41:33.030 like cautious. They're very afraid. They're like, 00:41:33.070 --> 00:41:36.610 I don't know. By the end of week, by week four, 00:41:36.710 --> 00:41:40.550 five, six, they're going to town. I'm like, oh 00:41:40.550 --> 00:41:43.389 my God. I'm getting all kinds of great ideas 00:41:43.389 --> 00:41:45.949 from my students. I'm like, oh, I need to try 00:41:45.949 --> 00:41:48.489 that. Oh, I need to try that too. Because now 00:41:48.489 --> 00:41:51.789 they're having fun. And now they're seeing, oh, 00:41:51.929 --> 00:41:55.969 my dog can do it. Oh, my dog can figure it out. 00:41:56.130 --> 00:42:01.230 And now they're like, oh, this is so cool. And 00:42:01.230 --> 00:42:05.030 they're like all in. But I always have that like 00:42:05.030 --> 00:42:10.480 initial thing at the beginning. Where they're 00:42:10.480 --> 00:42:14.699 like, huh, huh, huh. And I'm like, it's fine. 00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:19.739 Right. It's okay. It'll be okay. You know, huh, 00:42:19.880 --> 00:42:22.219 but he went, you know, I threw the dumbbell and 00:42:22.219 --> 00:42:25.659 he ran to the toy. Uh -huh. He did. They all 00:42:25.659 --> 00:42:29.460 do. Right. That's what they do. Right. And then 00:42:29.460 --> 00:42:32.320 guess what? They figure it out. And then they 00:42:32.320 --> 00:42:34.340 realize they're not supposed to run to the toy. 00:42:34.460 --> 00:42:37.199 They're supposed to get the dumbbell. Right. 00:42:37.579 --> 00:42:43.969 Right. But. Just give them a chance. Yeah. Totally. 00:42:44.389 --> 00:42:48.110 Give them a chance. Give them a chance. Make 00:42:48.110 --> 00:42:52.949 it challenging. Let them have that amazing, amazing 00:42:52.949 --> 00:42:58.250 feeling. Yeah. Figuring it out. That we all get, 00:42:58.449 --> 00:43:04.110 right? When we struggle and then. figure something 00:43:04.110 --> 00:43:07.469 out and that frustration's part of it like you 00:43:07.469 --> 00:43:10.329 should have seen me the other night I was just 00:43:10.329 --> 00:43:15.150 telling my friend this morning I was fixing the 00:43:15.150 --> 00:43:17.789 dryer so my washer and dryer both broke like 00:43:17.789 --> 00:43:21.690 within a day of each other so I fixed the washer 00:43:21.690 --> 00:43:26.090 okay that wasn't it was okay so now that I tackled 00:43:26.090 --> 00:43:31.449 the dryer and I I'm like, all I have to do is 00:43:31.449 --> 00:43:34.429 put the stupid like front panel back on. Except, 00:43:34.489 --> 00:43:36.730 of course, it wasn't that easy. Like, I really 00:43:36.730 --> 00:43:38.750 just needed another pair of pants and I didn't 00:43:38.750 --> 00:43:42.530 have another pair of pants. It was hot. I'm in 00:43:42.530 --> 00:43:44.510 the basement. There's no air conditioning down 00:43:44.510 --> 00:43:48.150 there. I'm pouring sweat. My hands are all slippery. 00:43:48.590 --> 00:43:54.789 I keep dropping the door. I'm like, fuck. I'm 00:43:54.789 --> 00:43:59.670 like cursing. I'm like. So mad. Right. And then 00:43:59.670 --> 00:44:02.130 I'm like, all right. And then I'm like, I am 00:44:02.130 --> 00:44:08.909 getting this door on if it's the last. But there's 00:44:08.909 --> 00:44:12.429 also this part of me this whole time, like my 00:44:12.429 --> 00:44:15.469 hands are getting cut up. Right. Or I'm like. 00:44:16.730 --> 00:44:21.190 The reason I didn't just bail or wait a day or 00:44:21.190 --> 00:44:23.349 two till somebody was around and asked them to 00:44:23.349 --> 00:44:27.539 help me was because I've been here before. I've 00:44:27.539 --> 00:44:30.380 done things like this. I've been in situations 00:44:30.380 --> 00:44:33.679 where I got stuck and I got frustrated. And I 00:44:33.679 --> 00:44:38.440 know that if I just keep at it, if I just take 00:44:38.440 --> 00:44:41.800 a deep breath, dry my hands, take a walk away 00:44:41.800 --> 00:44:46.260 for a minute, come back, I'll get it. I'll get 00:44:46.260 --> 00:44:49.300 it done. And that's because I have a history 00:44:49.300 --> 00:44:53.179 of that. And that's resilience, right? That's 00:44:53.179 --> 00:44:56.539 what we want in our dogs. We want our dogs to 00:44:56.539 --> 00:44:59.739 be in a situation where they go, and then they 00:44:59.739 --> 00:45:02.320 go, wait, there's some part of them that goes, 00:45:02.380 --> 00:45:08.159 I know what to do here. If I push, it will work, 00:45:08.239 --> 00:45:12.670 right? If I push, why? Because I've done this 00:45:12.670 --> 00:45:16.030 before. I've done this many times. I've been 00:45:16.030 --> 00:45:19.050 in a situation where it was hard, where I wasn't 00:45:19.050 --> 00:45:23.449 sure, where I got frustrated, but I just tried 00:45:23.449 --> 00:45:25.809 one more time and then it worked. And then I 00:45:25.809 --> 00:45:30.969 got the right answer. And that's what we're building. 00:45:31.150 --> 00:45:34.050 That's what we're teaching them so that when 00:45:34.050 --> 00:45:38.340 they are in that situation. They will push through. 00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:40.800 Because they're like. I know how to do this. 00:45:41.420 --> 00:45:47.539 Right. And maybe they'll curse. Like Zaina. Zaina 00:45:47.539 --> 00:45:53.260 will probably be like. Or maybe not. Maybe they'll 00:45:53.260 --> 00:45:57.639 be more like Zesty. And they'll just do it. Whatever. 00:45:57.780 --> 00:46:02.739 But in essence. That's what we're teaching them. 00:46:03.159 --> 00:46:09.510 Right. Push through. Push through. Don't give 00:46:09.510 --> 00:46:14.389 up. Yeah, so get those dogs out there. Get them 00:46:14.389 --> 00:46:16.849 out in the environment. Stop training in your 00:46:16.849 --> 00:46:19.570 house or your room. Put different stuff in that. 00:46:19.650 --> 00:46:22.230 If you're in the room by yourself, just put different 00:46:22.230 --> 00:46:24.250 things on the floor, different things, different 00:46:24.250 --> 00:46:30.630 sounds. Make it different. Make it hard. Don't 00:46:30.630 --> 00:46:34.530 baby them. Right. And then I think they're going 00:46:34.530 --> 00:46:43.099 to shock you. Definitely. All right. Okay. That 00:46:43.099 --> 00:46:47.119 was good. Thanks, everybody. Thanks. Bye. Bye.