WEBVTT 00:00:11.759 --> 00:00:14.060 Hi, everybody. Welcome to the Canine Connection 00:00:14.060 --> 00:00:18.660 podcast. So today, Lori and I decided to talk 00:00:18.660 --> 00:00:22.699 about the opposite of what we talked about on 00:00:22.699 --> 00:00:26.079 our last two episodes, which was reducing reinforcement. 00:00:26.660 --> 00:00:29.620 And I think it kind of came up because I was 00:00:29.620 --> 00:00:32.420 up in Connecticut. We were doing a training thing. 00:00:32.439 --> 00:00:34.320 I don't even know how it came up. And we were 00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:37.500 somehow talking and there was someone was there. 00:00:37.579 --> 00:00:39.890 I don't. I feel terrible. You know, do you know, 00:00:39.909 --> 00:00:41.450 what's her name? You know who I'm talking about, 00:00:41.509 --> 00:00:45.810 Lori? That was talking about Raleigh. Yep. And 00:00:45.810 --> 00:00:49.909 what's her name? Carol Perkins. Okay. And we, 00:00:49.990 --> 00:00:54.250 so we were talking about Raleigh and how, I don't 00:00:54.250 --> 00:00:56.750 even know how this came up, but how they tend, 00:00:56.909 --> 00:01:00.329 have a tendency, and I'm not throwing shade here, 00:01:00.450 --> 00:01:05.730 to practice courses all the time, right? Yeah. 00:01:05.790 --> 00:01:10.010 Then, so, That kind of got us thinking about, 00:01:10.170 --> 00:01:12.849 you know, some there are definitely instances 00:01:12.849 --> 00:01:15.150 where people don't reinforce enough. And then 00:01:15.150 --> 00:01:18.829 ironically enough, yesterday I'm training with 00:01:18.829 --> 00:01:21.769 my two training partners and the one brings up, 00:01:21.769 --> 00:01:24.629 you know, the podcast on reinforcement. And my 00:01:24.629 --> 00:01:27.150 other training partner goes, you know, my students 00:01:27.150 --> 00:01:29.469 have the opposite problem. They don't reinforce 00:01:29.469 --> 00:01:33.209 enough. So it was funny that she said that because 00:01:33.209 --> 00:01:35.530 you and I just that morning had decided that's 00:01:35.530 --> 00:01:38.689 what we were going to talk about. It's not just 00:01:38.689 --> 00:01:42.829 in rally. I kind of mentioned rally because there 00:01:42.829 --> 00:01:47.629 is a strong tendency in that sport. And I see 00:01:47.629 --> 00:01:49.609 that with students that I get from that sport 00:01:49.609 --> 00:01:52.829 where they do several things. One is they just 00:01:52.829 --> 00:01:55.890 practice courses all the time, which means the 00:01:55.890 --> 00:01:58.950 dog doesn't get reinforced until the very end. 00:02:00.909 --> 00:02:04.609 Um, but that's also common with like obedience. 00:02:04.750 --> 00:02:07.290 Like as soon as people start putting chains together, 00:02:07.469 --> 00:02:10.150 they just reward the, you know, they do the whole 00:02:10.150 --> 00:02:13.689 exercise every time and they just reward the 00:02:13.689 --> 00:02:15.810 end. And I'm sure it's common in other sports 00:02:15.810 --> 00:02:18.469 as well, where once they start putting the pieces 00:02:18.469 --> 00:02:24.569 together, they just reinforce the end. So I think 00:02:24.569 --> 00:02:27.949 that can be problematic on several, on three 00:02:27.949 --> 00:02:31.729 fronts. One is. You're not really addressing 00:02:31.729 --> 00:02:35.150 engagement. And if there's a long chain, engagement 00:02:35.150 --> 00:02:37.909 is going to get weak. Right. And engagement is 00:02:37.909 --> 00:02:43.610 everything to reinforcement is super important 00:02:43.610 --> 00:02:46.949 because it's information. Right. Like it's not 00:02:46.949 --> 00:02:50.409 just, oh, my dog will only work. No, it's information. 00:02:50.810 --> 00:02:56.110 It's telling you like you're correct or you're 00:02:56.110 --> 00:02:58.689 not. And if you're not, here's what you need 00:02:58.689 --> 00:03:02.919 to do. to rectify the situation so that would 00:03:02.919 --> 00:03:06.580 be like me give i kind of thought about this 00:03:06.580 --> 00:03:08.939 i thought this would be pretty funny so if i'm 00:03:08.939 --> 00:03:12.139 if either you or i are given a lesson and the 00:03:12.139 --> 00:03:14.340 students and we're like okay show me what you 00:03:14.340 --> 00:03:17.699 can do and they start doing something with the 00:03:17.699 --> 00:03:19.659 dog and then they look at us for information 00:03:19.659 --> 00:03:23.060 and we go just keep going and we say nothing 00:03:23.060 --> 00:03:25.139 and they look at us and we're like just keep 00:03:25.139 --> 00:03:28.900 going like at one point at some point you're 00:03:28.900 --> 00:03:33.259 going to be like what the hell like can you give 00:03:33.259 --> 00:03:40.020 me some feedback here like and then if you kept 00:03:40.020 --> 00:03:43.180 coming back at some point you'd be like oh my 00:03:43.180 --> 00:03:47.039 god i hate these lessons why does my why does 00:03:47.039 --> 00:03:50.039 whoever keep dragging me to these lessons like 00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:55.389 i never get any information Right. So it's a 00:03:55.389 --> 00:03:57.770 lack of information. And then the final piece 00:03:57.770 --> 00:04:01.530 is, yeah, there is a level of motivation and 00:04:01.530 --> 00:04:04.969 not for nothing. People, none of you are working 00:04:04.969 --> 00:04:10.330 for free. So if you don't get paid, you're not 00:04:10.330 --> 00:04:13.210 going to be as motivated to do your job. Right. 00:04:13.289 --> 00:04:16.730 Like there has to be a certain amount of motivation, 00:04:17.009 --> 00:04:20.970 especially when you're asking these animals to 00:04:20.970 --> 00:04:27.060 do things that are. I'm animal like not at all 00:04:27.060 --> 00:04:30.220 reinforcing in any way, shape or form. Like, 00:04:30.300 --> 00:04:35.439 why would your dog want to do it? Why? Why? Because 00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:41.560 they love you. Sorry. Ain't happening. It's so 00:04:41.560 --> 00:04:48.300 true. You know, and I, I always tell people that 00:04:48.300 --> 00:04:53.459 I feel like when. I did rally. That was my first 00:04:53.459 --> 00:04:56.500 sport. So I find it really, really difficult 00:04:56.500 --> 00:05:00.579 because I find that the start sign actually more 00:05:00.579 --> 00:05:04.800 often than not is very, very near the entranceway 00:05:04.800 --> 00:05:06.699 when you come through the ring gates. Like you 00:05:06.699 --> 00:05:09.160 don't have a whole lot of time to get your dog 00:05:09.160 --> 00:05:12.939 together to all that stuff. there's a little 00:05:12.939 --> 00:05:15.740 bit of, if you don't have engagement worked into 00:05:15.740 --> 00:05:19.779 your training and the process of, you know, getting 00:05:19.779 --> 00:05:22.680 prepared for coming in the ring gate and getting 00:05:22.680 --> 00:05:25.560 your dog locked in and dialed in like rallies 00:05:25.560 --> 00:05:27.759 hard in that sense. I find that because you have 00:05:27.759 --> 00:05:30.360 such a short window right there before you set 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:33.519 up at that start sign. And then I feel like, 00:05:33.519 --> 00:05:35.360 sorry, I know I just cut you off, but I feel 00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:40.120 like it's really, it's tends to be chaotic. around 00:05:40.120 --> 00:05:43.079 most ring entrances for most sports, but I feel 00:05:43.079 --> 00:05:46.699 like rally can sometimes be especially chaotic. 00:05:47.540 --> 00:05:49.980 Yeah, I agree. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong, 00:05:50.139 --> 00:05:53.660 but... I just feel like it moves, like, so quickly. 00:05:53.879 --> 00:05:56.199 Like, you go in the ring gate, the start sign's 00:05:56.199 --> 00:06:00.319 right there. Yeah, yeah. And, like, within seconds, 00:06:00.620 --> 00:06:03.639 you know, you're being asked, are you ready? 00:06:03.740 --> 00:06:07.600 And then you're gone. It's rapid fire behaviors 00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:10.680 in that one to three minutes for however long 00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:14.180 you're in the ring for. That's like for, that's 00:06:14.180 --> 00:06:17.540 a lot of, like each sign itself has more than 00:06:17.540 --> 00:06:21.000 one behavior, you know, like come front, halt, 00:06:21.139 --> 00:06:26.000 round, left, you know. That is incredible. Like 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:28.519 if you, not only are you doing a whole chain 00:06:28.519 --> 00:06:32.339 from the. time you start to the end. But in that 00:06:32.339 --> 00:06:35.819 chain, it is like if you would sit and really 00:06:35.819 --> 00:06:38.360 break down each sign and count how many behaviors 00:06:38.360 --> 00:06:41.899 you're asking your dog to do, it's massive. It's 00:06:41.899 --> 00:06:44.839 massive. I think that's another issue, at least 00:06:44.839 --> 00:06:50.740 from what I've seen. So like, for example. Like 00:06:50.740 --> 00:06:53.399 I've seen people teach their dog. I'm just going 00:06:53.399 --> 00:06:56.199 to randomly pick a sign three steps back. Right. 00:06:56.259 --> 00:06:58.500 And the way they attempt to teach three steps 00:06:58.500 --> 00:07:02.620 back is by taking three steps back. Or the sign 00:07:02.620 --> 00:07:06.699 is, you know, stop down, walk around. So they 00:07:06.699 --> 00:07:10.000 teach it by stop down, walk around. Like I was 00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:12.519 teaching these. I just mentioned these because 00:07:12.519 --> 00:07:14.620 I was teaching those to Zaina the other day. 00:07:15.500 --> 00:07:20.879 And I do like one. eighth of a step back yes 00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:24.720 feed right until she gets that piece then I go 00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:28.279 like you know one quarter of a step back yes 00:07:28.279 --> 00:07:31.779 feed one half a step back and I might not even 00:07:31.779 --> 00:07:35.579 get to one or two for like multiple training 00:07:35.579 --> 00:07:38.560 sessions then with the down walk around you're 00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:41.920 like well she's trained right well yeah but dogs 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:45.500 don't generalize well so I stop and I tell her 00:07:45.500 --> 00:07:48.850 down and she looks at me like we don't heal stop 00:07:48.850 --> 00:07:53.149 and down like that's not that's not a thing so 00:07:53.149 --> 00:07:57.490 I heel stop down yes feed heel stop down yes 00:07:57.490 --> 00:08:01.569 feed heel stop down yes feed separately I do 00:08:01.569 --> 00:08:06.170 down walk around yes feed like break it into 00:08:06.170 --> 00:08:10.029 small pieces and that's what I did with zeal 00:08:10.029 --> 00:08:15.290 too and that's again like I don't feel like people 00:08:15.290 --> 00:08:19.860 are doing that And maintaining that, right? Like 00:08:19.860 --> 00:08:25.279 maybe that's how you taught it. But are you maintaining 00:08:25.279 --> 00:08:28.639 that? Like in obedience, you know, we'll do a 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:31.939 drop on recall, drop the dog and reward the drop 00:08:31.939 --> 00:08:37.159 like forever. Like the dog can be an odd gazillion 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:41.519 and you're still periodically doing that. Not 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:44.559 everyone, people should be. They don't, right? 00:08:45.159 --> 00:08:49.019 So it's the same with rally. Like at you need 00:08:49.019 --> 00:08:52.559 to be rewarding, not just the individual signs, 00:08:52.940 --> 00:08:57.860 but the pieces of the signs. Exactly. Interesting 00:08:57.860 --> 00:09:06.840 and fun and like motivational and like interesting 00:09:06.840 --> 00:09:12.419 for the dog. Right. Right. And, you know, I think 00:09:12.419 --> 00:09:16.370 a lot of. I mean, I can't say for sure, but I 00:09:16.370 --> 00:09:19.809 had taken a few rally classes back when I was 00:09:19.809 --> 00:09:23.490 first starting out in rally and it, there was 00:09:23.490 --> 00:09:28.509 no, there was really for the most part, no breaking 00:09:28.509 --> 00:09:32.169 signs down and working on individual signs. It 00:09:32.169 --> 00:09:36.970 was set the course up and you just go from start 00:09:36.970 --> 00:09:42.090 to finish and you were timed and you just. you 00:09:42.090 --> 00:09:45.009 just got through it like that's kind of how the 00:09:45.009 --> 00:09:47.529 like I felt the mentality was like you just need 00:09:47.529 --> 00:09:50.990 to get through it yeah and it is I mean I have 00:09:50.990 --> 00:09:54.950 a student now and you know so she was like oh 00:09:54.950 --> 00:09:57.850 my dog was doing great and now my dog's gotten 00:09:57.850 --> 00:09:59.649 to where it doesn't even want to go in the ring 00:09:59.649 --> 00:10:03.570 right and um and she says like people have told 00:10:03.570 --> 00:10:06.450 me in my class outside the ring as soon as I 00:10:06.450 --> 00:10:08.470 say we're going in the ring the dog's like oh 00:10:08.470 --> 00:10:12.809 right and I said well Do you, you know, have 00:10:12.809 --> 00:10:17.169 you worked on ring entrances? Say what? You know, 00:10:17.169 --> 00:10:22.830 I'm like, well, just so it also takes some like 00:10:22.830 --> 00:10:25.710 I want to say, I guess, courage. Right. Because 00:10:25.710 --> 00:10:28.289 if that's what everyone's doing now, you're going 00:10:28.289 --> 00:10:30.769 to go against the grain. Right. Because I said 00:10:30.769 --> 00:10:34.289 to her, I don't want you to do a course. No courses 00:10:34.289 --> 00:10:37.690 for now. You're just going to go to class and 00:10:37.690 --> 00:10:40.269 you're going to use your time, however many minutes 00:10:40.269 --> 00:10:42.429 that is, and you're just going to work on your 00:10:42.429 --> 00:10:44.250 ring entrances. And I don't even care if you 00:10:44.250 --> 00:10:47.110 don't get into the ring. You need to change your 00:10:47.110 --> 00:10:51.029 dog's state of mind outside the ring first. Then 00:10:51.029 --> 00:10:53.409 you need to change your dog's state of mind crossing 00:10:53.409 --> 00:10:56.629 through the ring gates. Then you need to do it 00:10:56.629 --> 00:11:02.190 moving from the ring gate to your setup start 00:11:02.190 --> 00:11:05.440 point. Right. And if you don't have any of that, 00:11:05.580 --> 00:11:08.700 there's no way you should even be thinking about 00:11:08.700 --> 00:11:13.000 starting a course. Right. And then once you get 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:15.559 that, which could take weeks to months, depending 00:11:15.559 --> 00:11:20.159 on what, you know, the scenario, right? Like 00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:23.799 what you've kind of inadvertently built into 00:11:23.799 --> 00:11:27.580 the dog. And even then you have to maintain that 00:11:27.580 --> 00:11:32.559 forever. When we train, if I'm training in my 00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:35.980 backyard and I don't have anything set up, I'm 00:11:35.980 --> 00:11:38.440 still doing like three or four ring entrances 00:11:38.440 --> 00:11:44.139 every single training session. Yeah. Same. Always. 00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:48.340 Right. Because that's so hard for the dog. Yeah. 00:11:48.419 --> 00:11:51.740 And how am I going to maintain that? Right. So 00:11:51.740 --> 00:11:55.740 and then the. taking the leash off we train that 00:11:55.740 --> 00:11:59.259 piece we reward it heavily we make it a fun trick 00:11:59.259 --> 00:12:02.679 like we make it a game right and then from there 00:12:02.679 --> 00:12:05.220 moving to the start point and then setting the 00:12:05.220 --> 00:12:07.500 dog up because now the dog's sitting there and 00:12:07.500 --> 00:12:11.039 it's like oh my god the judge is there the people 00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:15.379 are looking at me the noise is going on never 00:12:15.379 --> 00:12:23.840 mind randomly rewarding signs right right Yeah, 00:12:23.919 --> 00:12:28.539 I don't know. I don't want to like say the broad 00:12:28.539 --> 00:12:31.179 spectrum is this is what happens in all rally 00:12:31.179 --> 00:12:35.440 classes because I know like even talking to Danette, 00:12:35.500 --> 00:12:38.460 talking to Carol Perkins, I know those guys work 00:12:38.460 --> 00:12:41.299 on individual signs, breaking down behaviors. 00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:46.620 But I think there is a large amount of classes 00:12:46.620 --> 00:12:49.279 that it's just set up courses and go through 00:12:49.279 --> 00:12:53.720 them, right? And I think you're right. Like it 00:12:53.720 --> 00:12:56.919 has to, you have to still, like everything we're 00:12:56.919 --> 00:13:00.120 doing in Rally, it's all, it's the same as obedience 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:03.740 in the sense that it's all obedience behaviors, 00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:07.200 you know, sit, front, left, you know, finish, 00:13:07.259 --> 00:13:09.860 all that stuff. And like you said, like we break 00:13:09.860 --> 00:13:13.639 all that down. We go and reinforce all those 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:17.659 pieces, all the middle pieces. So even if you're 00:13:17.659 --> 00:13:21.360 working on a sign. It's so important to break 00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:25.700 that down and still work on motivating and reinforcing 00:13:25.700 --> 00:13:29.539 those pieces and not just going from start a 00:13:29.539 --> 00:13:34.279 to the end. Cause that's, I think, um, well, 00:13:34.419 --> 00:13:37.700 you know, they, they need to reinforce good things, 00:13:37.860 --> 00:13:40.200 right? This is a problem. It's a big problem 00:13:40.200 --> 00:13:42.279 in obedience. It's a big problem in a lot of 00:13:42.279 --> 00:13:48.139 sports, like where they, the dog's working nicely. 00:13:49.070 --> 00:13:52.450 And they just keep going and keep going and keep 00:13:52.450 --> 00:13:55.730 going until the dog makes a mistake. And then 00:13:55.730 --> 00:13:58.710 they say to the dog, you're wrong. You made a 00:13:58.710 --> 00:14:02.990 mistake, right? And then whether they handle 00:14:02.990 --> 00:14:07.549 the error well or not, regardless, then, okay, 00:14:07.610 --> 00:14:12.029 now they go again. Dog does it right. They keep 00:14:12.029 --> 00:14:16.809 going and they keep going. Until the dog makes 00:14:16.809 --> 00:14:19.970 another mistake. And then they're like, you're 00:14:19.970 --> 00:14:25.690 wrong. And I'm like, oh, my God. The dog's like, 00:14:25.830 --> 00:14:32.090 get me out of here. Yeah. Like, think about rewarding 00:14:32.090 --> 00:14:36.830 the pieces that are good, because that's going 00:14:36.830 --> 00:14:41.669 to motivate the dog and give the dog confidence. 00:14:41.730 --> 00:14:45.440 Because again. Like I see the dogs like they're 00:14:45.440 --> 00:14:49.740 doing and I see it in obedience to like, you 00:14:49.740 --> 00:14:55.620 know, the dog looks so confused and unsure. It 00:14:55.620 --> 00:15:01.879 just looks like. Unsure. Right. And if you say 00:15:01.879 --> 00:15:04.659 to the dog, that's it. Good job. The dog goes, 00:15:04.759 --> 00:15:08.120 oh, thank God I'm doing it right. Right. And 00:15:08.120 --> 00:15:10.840 if you do that routinely, your dog's going to 00:15:10.840 --> 00:15:15.590 go, oh, I. I'm good at this. I know what to do. 00:15:15.690 --> 00:15:19.769 Like not getting information is a weird feeling. 00:15:19.909 --> 00:15:23.529 Like, um, I just did this thing and nose work, 00:15:23.570 --> 00:15:25.649 right? Like we really have to put ourselves in 00:15:25.649 --> 00:15:30.230 the dog's shoes. So, um, there's a big area and 00:15:30.230 --> 00:15:32.970 my instructor says, um, okay, I'm gonna, I'm 00:15:32.970 --> 00:15:36.090 not telling you how many hides are in here. And 00:15:36.090 --> 00:15:38.590 you have to go through the whole building, find, 00:15:38.730 --> 00:15:41.289 you know, as many as you can. And then tell me 00:15:41.289 --> 00:15:43.990 when you're done, like when you feel like you've 00:15:43.990 --> 00:15:48.210 cleared the whole room. Right. Yeah. So I do 00:15:48.210 --> 00:15:52.710 it with Zesty. And then I look at her like I 00:15:52.710 --> 00:15:56.529 go, well, I kind of said, I'm done. Like, I think 00:15:56.529 --> 00:15:58.690 I'm done. Like, I think I did it because, you 00:15:58.690 --> 00:16:00.490 know, I'm new. I don't know what the hell I'm 00:16:00.490 --> 00:16:03.070 doing. Right. And she looks at me and she goes, 00:16:03.210 --> 00:16:06.860 well. I'm not going to tell you because I want 00:16:06.860 --> 00:16:10.279 you to run it with Zaina. Now, what's the first 00:16:10.279 --> 00:16:13.159 thing I think? Oh God, I must've fucked it up. 00:16:13.220 --> 00:16:16.559 That must be why she's not telling me because 00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:19.919 she wants me to go with Zaina and see if I figure 00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:24.740 it out and fix what I did wrong and blah. So, 00:16:24.740 --> 00:16:27.740 and then of course I had to like stop myself 00:16:27.740 --> 00:16:30.139 and go, no, she's just doing it so that, you 00:16:30.139 --> 00:16:33.139 know, you can do it with Zaina and not. be skewed 00:16:33.139 --> 00:16:37.299 or whatever but yeah the dog's not gonna the 00:16:37.299 --> 00:16:41.320 dog's gonna have that same feeling like I did 00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:46.159 it was it right right was it wrong right was 00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:50.399 it good was it bad well that self -doubt creeps 00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:53.500 in just like yes I must have screwed something 00:16:53.500 --> 00:16:55.940 up because she's not telling me anything she 00:16:55.940 --> 00:16:59.000 doesn't look happy she's telling me come on come 00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:03.700 on come on sit sit sit down down down I must 00:17:03.700 --> 00:17:07.880 be wrong. Yeah. Yeah. That definitely plays into 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:12.200 it for sure. Without a doubt. And I think that's 00:17:12.200 --> 00:17:15.420 what people need to think about because so many 00:17:15.420 --> 00:17:19.440 of the behaviors, I get this constantly. My dog 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:21.960 panicked in the ring. I look at the video. Nope. 00:17:21.980 --> 00:17:24.160 Your dog's not panicked. Your dog's confused 00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:27.619 as shit. My dog stressed out in the ring. Nope. 00:17:27.640 --> 00:17:31.440 Your dog's confused as shit. My dog's, you know, 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:34.519 not giving me effort. No, your dog is confused. 00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:42.380 Oh, poor dog. Like nine out of 10 times your 00:17:42.380 --> 00:17:45.559 dog's confused or your dog's doing displacement 00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:49.759 behaviors because it's confused or it's just, 00:17:49.859 --> 00:17:52.039 it's distracted because you haven't taught it 00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:55.480 engagement, right? Or maybe you taught engagement, 00:17:55.660 --> 00:17:58.839 but you're halfway through the course and the 00:17:58.839 --> 00:18:01.759 dog loses engagement and you just keep going. 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:05.279 right well if you do that enough times your dog's 00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:07.920 gonna go oh i guess it's okay to look away because 00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:12.420 no one ever said i shouldn't right so i may as 00:18:12.420 --> 00:18:16.960 well look around yeah and that's um yeah that 00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:21.759 and i think too that you know there's there's 00:18:21.759 --> 00:18:25.420 a lot to it but a big one too is making sure 00:18:25.420 --> 00:18:30.859 that The dogs actually know the behaviors that 00:18:30.859 --> 00:18:33.460 they're actually taught thoroughly those behaviors. 00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:38.700 Well, I think that's a big thing. Like, I think, 00:18:38.700 --> 00:18:45.859 I think that rally can be misinterpreted as an 00:18:45.859 --> 00:18:49.099 easy sport for the dogs to do, you know, like 00:18:49.099 --> 00:18:52.059 kind of anybody can do it. We can all go in and 00:18:52.059 --> 00:18:55.799 get through, get through the course. But again, 00:18:55.900 --> 00:19:00.740 it goes back to it's, is it fair to just go in 00:19:00.740 --> 00:19:03.380 and wing it when your dog really doesn't know 00:19:03.380 --> 00:19:06.640 some of the behaviors really well? Because I 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:10.779 see that too sometimes, you know. You can see 00:19:10.779 --> 00:19:12.920 it's just the confusion from the dog because 00:19:12.920 --> 00:19:15.940 the dog doesn't really know how to do that. And 00:19:15.940 --> 00:19:19.140 that's where, you know, there's the begging and 00:19:19.140 --> 00:19:22.609 the pleading and the. all that going on in the 00:19:22.609 --> 00:19:27.150 rally ring to just get through the course. And 00:19:27.150 --> 00:19:30.349 I always like, it's hard to watch that sometimes 00:19:30.349 --> 00:19:34.369 all the time. Well, it's hard to watch because 00:19:34.369 --> 00:19:37.769 the dog's not comfortable. Right. And yeah. And 00:19:37.769 --> 00:19:40.809 it's like, it's, it's at the expense of your 00:19:40.809 --> 00:19:43.970 dog. Like that's how I feel. Like your dog is 00:19:43.970 --> 00:19:48.369 put in a really hard spot, you know, because 00:19:48.369 --> 00:19:51.769 they're being asked to do. two, three minutes 00:19:51.769 --> 00:19:56.869 of work. And like I said, in obedience, we have 00:19:56.869 --> 00:20:01.289 eight to 10 minutes, whatever. We have in between 00:20:01.289 --> 00:20:05.289 exercises. I love that we have that. We have 00:20:05.289 --> 00:20:08.230 in between those transition periods where we 00:20:08.230 --> 00:20:11.809 can give feedback and we can do whatever until 00:20:11.809 --> 00:20:15.549 the next exercise. Like I said, like I find rally 00:20:15.549 --> 00:20:17.710 to be really hard in just that sense. It's rapid 00:20:17.710 --> 00:20:19.789 fire, rapid fire, rapid fire, rapid fire. Like 00:20:19.789 --> 00:20:23.910 the dogs need to be, I mean, that level of engagement 00:20:23.910 --> 00:20:26.029 definitely needs to be there for that entire 00:20:26.029 --> 00:20:32.589 time. So. And I find, so my students, my rally 00:20:32.589 --> 00:20:36.789 students, they'll take like certain courses and 00:20:36.789 --> 00:20:43.170 they're like, well, I can't pre -cue or I can't. 00:20:43.420 --> 00:20:46.799 do the transition right because like we do in 00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:48.720 obedience because they don't have that option 00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:55.319 so I'm like totally fair however like if you 00:20:55.319 --> 00:21:00.819 what you do have is those at those signs you 00:21:00.819 --> 00:21:06.460 can make them so fun that they're self -reinforcing 00:21:06.460 --> 00:21:11.099 like when I did it with like each sign I did 00:21:11.099 --> 00:21:16.440 he was like oh my god this is so fun because 00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:23.019 i took the individual sign and made it a fun 00:21:23.019 --> 00:21:27.900 trick right like i would just break it down into 00:21:27.900 --> 00:21:31.140 little pieces reward the pieces and then like 00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:35.660 reward it heavily and then um do it and then 00:21:35.660 --> 00:21:40.819 play a game afterwards and he just thought like 00:21:41.109 --> 00:21:44.029 the behaviors were so fun and then after each 00:21:44.029 --> 00:21:51.289 one i can say good job buddy wow and so basically 00:21:51.289 --> 00:21:55.670 each sign in essence for him was almost like 00:21:55.670 --> 00:22:01.549 he was getting reinforced right in his mind right 00:22:01.549 --> 00:22:06.009 um and that goes back to taking those signs and 00:22:06.009 --> 00:22:10.490 a like you said Teaching it so well, because 00:22:10.490 --> 00:22:14.069 if the dog knows something really, really well, 00:22:14.289 --> 00:22:18.109 they're confident. Yeah. And then when you say 00:22:18.109 --> 00:22:21.069 do this, they're going to go, oh, I can do that 00:22:21.069 --> 00:22:23.809 because I know this inside out, backwards, forwards, 00:22:23.950 --> 00:22:27.029 upside down. And then I'm going to go, good job. 00:22:27.109 --> 00:22:29.349 And the dog's going to go, I knew it because 00:22:29.349 --> 00:22:33.210 I know this really well. So make sure the dog 00:22:33.210 --> 00:22:40.470 knows it. extremely well in isolation, then reinforce 00:22:40.470 --> 00:22:45.549 it like forever, not every single time, but I'm 00:22:45.549 --> 00:22:47.890 saying teach it with heavy reinforcement, then 00:22:47.890 --> 00:22:51.930 fade the reinforcement. But then just like the 00:22:51.930 --> 00:22:55.250 other day, I just did some healing, right? So 00:22:55.250 --> 00:22:58.529 I did forward right turn feed, forward left turn 00:22:58.529 --> 00:23:02.930 feed, forward about turn feed with my seasoned 00:23:03.840 --> 00:23:06.420 experienced competition dogs you might say well 00:23:06.420 --> 00:23:09.660 why would you do that because I want to reinforce 00:23:09.660 --> 00:23:12.740 the pieces that keeps them sharp it keeps my 00:23:12.740 --> 00:23:16.700 dog it keeps them enjoyable keeps it fun and 00:23:16.700 --> 00:23:19.059 I'm saying to my dog yep that's right that's 00:23:19.059 --> 00:23:21.740 right over and over my dog's like yeah I know 00:23:21.740 --> 00:23:25.779 how to do this so that's what you need to do 00:23:25.779 --> 00:23:31.500 with those rally behaviors right like just and 00:23:31.500 --> 00:23:34.759 you can just do it in your living room like in 00:23:34.759 --> 00:23:38.579 your house yeah definitely all of those little 00:23:38.579 --> 00:23:45.740 things for sure yeah so and um we're gonna have 00:23:45.740 --> 00:23:48.680 to have probably multiple episodes just on engagement 00:23:48.680 --> 00:23:51.519 alone right because i think that's another thing 00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:58.980 that like you go to a class and you do Like, 00:23:58.980 --> 00:24:03.519 I know that every year, these poor dogs, like, 00:24:03.579 --> 00:24:06.759 because, I mean, we think obedience nationals 00:24:06.759 --> 00:24:12.960 are hard. I mean, we specifically train for months 00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:18.059 and months just for the NOC because the challenges 00:24:18.059 --> 00:24:21.000 are different because there's so many rings going 00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:24.319 on at the same time. And it's so distracting, 00:24:24.539 --> 00:24:26.839 not just because of the multiple rings, because 00:24:26.839 --> 00:24:29.200 of the people, the announcers, the whole thing. 00:24:29.339 --> 00:24:36.539 Yeah. That is like a joke compared to 600 or 00:24:36.539 --> 00:24:42.039 400 rally people with like 80 ,000 rings. Yeah. 00:24:42.539 --> 00:24:49.039 Holy shit. Like. Yes, it is. Yes. Like when we 00:24:49.039 --> 00:24:52.730 go to the NOC, like when I, like I. Last year 00:24:52.730 --> 00:24:55.289 when I got there, we popped in early and I was 00:24:55.289 --> 00:25:00.430 like, holy Hannah. I could not believe the amounts 00:25:00.430 --> 00:25:04.490 of people in that building. Yeah. So if you think 00:25:04.490 --> 00:25:09.329 about the audio level, right? The energy level, 00:25:09.609 --> 00:25:12.089 because there's stress. The dogs are stressed. 00:25:12.250 --> 00:25:16.730 The people are stressed. The smells, right? The 00:25:16.730 --> 00:25:21.339 motion that's going on. If you're in a middle 00:25:21.339 --> 00:25:25.640 ring, there is massive amounts of motion on all 00:25:25.640 --> 00:25:29.059 four sides. There's noise everywhere. There's 00:25:29.059 --> 00:25:32.039 chaos outside the ring. I can't imagine trying 00:25:32.039 --> 00:25:38.900 to get to, never mind, into your ring. And it's 00:25:38.900 --> 00:25:43.240 very common that people just do their normal 00:25:43.240 --> 00:25:45.619 rally routine and then they go to rally nationals. 00:25:45.619 --> 00:25:48.700 And then they're like, oh. Yeah. My dog had a 00:25:48.700 --> 00:25:51.319 meltdown. I don't know why. I'm like, you don't 00:25:51.319 --> 00:25:57.779 know why. And I don't mean that in a mean way. 00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:00.359 I mean, like they don't even understand because 00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:04.380 people aren't addressing it or talking about 00:26:04.380 --> 00:26:08.559 like, right. You know, we need to work on engagement. 00:26:08.579 --> 00:26:12.759 We like if. If I was taking my dog to rally nationals, 00:26:12.759 --> 00:26:16.299 I would be training all over the plate, like 00:26:16.299 --> 00:26:18.940 in the middle of stores, like in the middle of 00:26:18.940 --> 00:26:21.759 chaos, like in a park where there's soccer games 00:26:21.759 --> 00:26:26.259 going on. And I would be trying to get people 00:26:26.259 --> 00:26:32.460 together and, you know, do a partial run while 00:26:32.460 --> 00:26:35.240 there's chaos going on around the ring and people 00:26:35.240 --> 00:26:39.650 are yelling things and dogs are barking. Right. 00:26:39.789 --> 00:26:43.690 Because otherwise, yes, your poor dog is going 00:26:43.690 --> 00:26:48.109 to have a nervous breakdown. Yeah. Yeah. Because 00:26:48.109 --> 00:26:51.529 the level of difficulty is through the roof for 00:26:51.529 --> 00:26:55.369 sure. Through the roof. And imagine, I'm sure 00:26:55.369 --> 00:26:58.890 there are many people that have gone that they, 00:26:59.009 --> 00:27:03.910 the human struggled, right. With focus and made 00:27:03.910 --> 00:27:08.529 mistakes. Oh yeah. So imagine then how the dog. 00:27:09.210 --> 00:27:14.809 Must feel in that situation. Right. Yeah. So 00:27:14.809 --> 00:27:17.769 even and even if you don't do rally nationals, 00:27:17.789 --> 00:27:20.190 even if you're just, you know, locally showing 00:27:20.190 --> 00:27:24.250 and rally still, it's hard. Right. Distractions 00:27:24.250 --> 00:27:27.750 are going on. The judges in the ring. Things 00:27:27.750 --> 00:27:32.450 like dark corners, like, you know, when you have 00:27:32.450 --> 00:27:35.869 a rally ring, they're squeezing stuff into like 00:27:35.869 --> 00:27:42.359 every. square inch of that ring they are no yes 00:27:42.359 --> 00:27:46.599 so and some dogs like go into a corner and they're 00:27:46.599 --> 00:27:51.980 like i don't i don't like this corner right um 00:27:51.980 --> 00:27:56.640 so like that's something that Should be worked 00:27:56.640 --> 00:28:00.700 on and like recognized, first of all, like and 00:28:00.700 --> 00:28:04.579 like and everything's kind of close. So pressure 00:28:04.579 --> 00:28:07.359 is an issue as well. Right. Like feeling pressure 00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:11.160 from the signs, from the corner, from the judge 00:28:11.160 --> 00:28:16.880 following around. And I don't really see much 00:28:16.880 --> 00:28:19.660 talk. And I'm not saying no one's out there doing 00:28:19.660 --> 00:28:25.660 it. I'm saying in general about. the effect of 00:28:25.660 --> 00:28:31.339 pressure in a ring and like how that impacts 00:28:31.339 --> 00:28:36.500 a dog and how to help a dog and teach a dog to 00:28:36.500 --> 00:28:41.460 handle the pressure and be comfortable with that. 00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:45.299 Yeah. I'm not sure that is addressed enough in 00:28:45.299 --> 00:28:51.359 Rally. You know, I like I. when I, I took a few 00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:54.460 private lessons with Danette, um, Danette Chorney. 00:28:54.779 --> 00:28:58.180 And I mean, she's amazing. She's an, she's an 00:28:58.180 --> 00:29:03.880 AKC rally judge and she really definitely like 00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:07.640 teaches her students all the, you know, about 00:29:07.640 --> 00:29:11.859 engagement and about big things. She really teaches 00:29:11.859 --> 00:29:14.980 is like mapping out your strategies from sign 00:29:14.980 --> 00:29:18.539 to sign. Like I was blown away by that. Like, 00:29:18.539 --> 00:29:22.049 cause So then right there, I'm like, all right, 00:29:22.109 --> 00:29:24.789 it's not even about like I have to freaking remember 00:29:24.789 --> 00:29:28.750 the signs, memorize the signs. Now it's like 00:29:28.750 --> 00:29:31.369 when you walk that course, it's like I have to 00:29:31.369 --> 00:29:33.990 remember like from this sign to that sign, like 00:29:33.990 --> 00:29:36.230 what I need to do for my dog to help my dog get 00:29:36.230 --> 00:29:39.450 to that sign, to be able to execute that sign 00:29:39.450 --> 00:29:42.869 well. Like it was like I was like, holy shit, 00:29:42.990 --> 00:29:45.569 like this is crazy. This is intense. And she's 00:29:45.569 --> 00:29:49.009 like, yeah, yep. And she was purposely setting 00:29:49.009 --> 00:29:52.089 up courses for me like that were hard. She's 00:29:52.089 --> 00:29:53.529 like, these are some of the things that they'll 00:29:53.529 --> 00:29:55.289 do at nationals. Like, they're going to stick 00:29:55.289 --> 00:29:56.829 this sign in this corner because they're going 00:29:56.829 --> 00:29:58.690 to see if that, you know, people can get their 00:29:58.690 --> 00:30:01.930 dogs navigated through efficiently there without, 00:30:01.990 --> 00:30:04.369 you know, having an issue. And dogs, they set 00:30:04.369 --> 00:30:06.269 them up purposely to see if it's going to, like, 00:30:06.309 --> 00:30:08.289 kind of screw the dog up a little bit. Like, 00:30:08.309 --> 00:30:11.509 I was blown away by that. So she definitely does 00:30:11.509 --> 00:30:13.970 a lot of that stuff. But I don't think it's addressed 00:30:13.970 --> 00:30:20.089 enough, like you said. Well, and that. that is 00:30:20.089 --> 00:30:25.049 huge right like taking responsibility for your 00:30:25.049 --> 00:30:30.549 part in this because your part in rally is enormous 00:30:30.549 --> 00:30:34.369 like you need to memorize the sign you should 00:30:34.369 --> 00:30:40.369 not walk to the sign look at it with two eyeballs 00:30:40.369 --> 00:30:47.049 analyze it And then think about what you're doing 00:30:47.049 --> 00:30:49.970 to execute the sign, because if you're doing 00:30:49.970 --> 00:30:53.769 that, guess what? You're leaving your dog completely 00:30:53.769 --> 00:30:56.809 hanging. That is not a team. You're not being 00:30:56.809 --> 00:31:00.710 a teammate. Right. You need to. And I'm not saying 00:31:00.710 --> 00:31:03.349 it's easy because it is hard because I remember 00:31:03.349 --> 00:31:05.549 thinking, oh, yeah, this rally stuff so easy. 00:31:05.730 --> 00:31:07.910 And then I started looking at all the signs and 00:31:07.910 --> 00:31:12.690 I was like, oh, shit, it's not easy. And I went 00:31:12.690 --> 00:31:18.859 out. This is so funny. First of all, I, oh my 00:31:18.859 --> 00:31:22.400 God, I go in one of the rings. I'm literally 00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:25.900 like a novice, right? And I walk in and they're 00:31:25.900 --> 00:31:29.400 like, you don't have the right leash or I didn't 00:31:29.400 --> 00:31:31.640 have a leash or something. So that was like a 00:31:31.640 --> 00:31:33.900 big debacle. You had your slip leash on. You 00:31:33.900 --> 00:31:36.140 had your slip leash on. I had something completely, 00:31:36.220 --> 00:31:39.869 I fucked up. They're like, then, and I had to 00:31:39.869 --> 00:31:41.609 leave the ring and then I, it was a whole big 00:31:41.609 --> 00:31:46.390 thing. Then I do this course and I, and then 00:31:46.390 --> 00:31:49.150 I finish and the judge looks at me, goes, what 00:31:49.150 --> 00:31:52.250 was all good except for that sign over there. 00:31:53.049 --> 00:31:56.210 I don't know what, whatever you did, you did 00:31:56.210 --> 00:31:59.089 a lot of moving and spinning and I don't know. 00:31:59.089 --> 00:32:02.029 And I left the ring and I'm like, I did that 00:32:02.029 --> 00:32:08.450 sign perfectly. I know I I've been practicing 00:32:08.450 --> 00:32:11.970 that move, that double about turn thing. And 00:32:11.970 --> 00:32:14.130 I'm like, and I look at the videotape. I go, 00:32:14.190 --> 00:32:17.470 I did it. Perfect. Well, that wasn't the sign. 00:32:18.789 --> 00:32:22.289 It was just a plain old fucking right turn. And 00:32:22.289 --> 00:32:25.190 I, or about turn. And I did some fancy schmancy 00:32:25.190 --> 00:32:32.450 thing. I'm, you know, and I'm like, Oh, that's 00:32:32.450 --> 00:32:37.049 expensive. You know? So the point is like, It's 00:32:37.049 --> 00:32:41.730 my job to memorize the signs first and foremost. 00:32:41.849 --> 00:32:44.369 And cause they're very, you know, sometimes you 00:32:44.369 --> 00:32:47.390 have to stop. Sometimes you do it in motion and 00:32:47.390 --> 00:32:53.500 it's my job to memorize the course so that. I 00:32:53.500 --> 00:32:57.240 only need to glance at the sign, like to either 00:32:57.240 --> 00:33:00.359 as partially maybe to orient myself and partially 00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:03.660 as a quick little reminder, but I shouldn't have 00:33:03.660 --> 00:33:06.880 to stare at the sign. I should just maybe glance 00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:09.619 really quickly or see it out of the corner of 00:33:09.619 --> 00:33:12.740 my eye so I can maintain my connection to the 00:33:12.740 --> 00:33:16.420 dog. Well, the other thing too is it's, I found 00:33:16.420 --> 00:33:18.500 when I did rally and then when I took some of 00:33:18.500 --> 00:33:20.940 those lessons with Danette, like you get to a 00:33:20.940 --> 00:33:24.109 sign and like you, You better be – like you better 00:33:24.109 --> 00:33:27.970 know that sign so well because you should already 00:33:27.970 --> 00:33:30.569 be thinking about your next sign. Like that's 00:33:30.569 --> 00:33:33.529 how I felt. Like I needed to be so proactive 00:33:33.529 --> 00:33:37.410 and two steps ahead, right? Because I didn't 00:33:37.410 --> 00:33:39.589 like – and there were a couple of times where 00:33:39.589 --> 00:33:42.589 I would all of a sudden like I'd get stuck on 00:33:42.589 --> 00:33:44.509 something and then I'd be at the next sign. I'd 00:33:44.509 --> 00:33:46.400 be like, oh, shit. What are we doing at this 00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:50.680 sign? Like I, it was so hard. Like mentally it 00:33:50.680 --> 00:33:53.339 was so hard. That's why I feel like it's that 00:33:53.339 --> 00:33:57.119 rapid fire, like moving. Like some of the signs 00:33:57.119 --> 00:34:00.220 are only like two feet apart. Like you better 00:34:00.220 --> 00:34:03.319 fucking know your shit and be ready for the next. 00:34:04.639 --> 00:34:07.500 Well, and I think people need to take responsibility 00:34:07.500 --> 00:34:10.679 for that. Right. And they should be taught that 00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:13.360 that's their job. Right. Like they shouldn't 00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:15.739 be taught. Like if I was teaching a rally class 00:34:15.739 --> 00:34:17.780 and you walked around staring at the sign, I'd 00:34:17.780 --> 00:34:19.639 be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah. 00:34:19.820 --> 00:34:22.559 Get your dog, put them in the crate. Here's a 00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:27.739 pile of flashcards. Memorize these signs or memorize 00:34:27.739 --> 00:34:29.539 this course. You know what I'm saying? Like, 00:34:29.619 --> 00:34:35.530 I don't want you staring. at the sun like that's 00:34:35.530 --> 00:34:38.369 your responsibility like I literally think to 00:34:38.369 --> 00:34:41.429 myself I'm like oh like in a few years I'm gonna 00:34:41.429 --> 00:34:44.570 300 if not sooner do rally I'm like that'll be 00:34:44.570 --> 00:34:48.309 such a good way like when I get older to keep 00:34:48.309 --> 00:34:54.010 my brain sharp because it is such a mental challenge 00:34:54.010 --> 00:34:58.250 and that's exhausted by it I'm like holy crap 00:34:58.829 --> 00:35:01.869 Yeah. And we should embrace that, right? We should 00:35:01.869 --> 00:35:04.849 embrace that as it is a mental challenge. It's 00:35:04.849 --> 00:35:07.829 a puzzle. Challenge yourself. Think about it. 00:35:07.849 --> 00:35:10.650 Like every time you do that, you're building 00:35:10.650 --> 00:35:13.590 new neurons. Like you're keeping, you're staving 00:35:13.590 --> 00:35:16.170 off Alzheimer's and dementia. Like this is good 00:35:16.170 --> 00:35:18.949 for you. Have a positive outlook about it. And 00:35:18.949 --> 00:35:21.530 because that's only fair for your dog. Like we 00:35:21.530 --> 00:35:24.409 get so annoyed, like you down and your dog doesn't 00:35:24.409 --> 00:35:28.150 down. He didn't down. Well. You messed up the 00:35:28.150 --> 00:35:33.670 sign, honey. So like, how about that? How about 00:35:33.670 --> 00:35:35.730 you take response? You know, how about we mess 00:35:35.730 --> 00:35:37.989 up a sign and it's like, oh, whoopsie, we messed 00:35:37.989 --> 00:35:40.789 up the sign. Our dog messes up the sign. It's 00:35:40.789 --> 00:35:45.190 like, oh, the dog messed up the sign. Well, sorry. 00:35:46.059 --> 00:35:48.659 you know someone should be holding you should 00:35:48.659 --> 00:35:51.079 be holding yourself equally accountable that's 00:35:51.079 --> 00:35:52.960 why my dog messed up the sign i'm not going to 00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:55.320 even get on their case i am going to go it's 00:35:55.320 --> 00:35:57.420 a training issue i need to go fix it but more 00:35:57.420 --> 00:35:59.300 than likely they messed up the sign because i 00:35:59.300 --> 00:36:04.179 messed up the sign right exactly exactly it's 00:36:04.179 --> 00:36:07.679 hard rally's hard it's really hard i thought 00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:10.039 i think it's super fun though like i'm really 00:36:10.039 --> 00:36:12.619 looking forward to i love doing it with zeal 00:36:13.309 --> 00:36:16.190 Like I wasn't even, I was like, oh, I'm not going 00:36:16.190 --> 00:36:18.070 to, I loved it. I didn't think I was going to 00:36:18.070 --> 00:36:23.010 like it. I'm going to, so I'm training. I'm starting 00:36:23.010 --> 00:36:25.670 to teach Zaina some of the signs. After the NOC, 00:36:25.750 --> 00:36:30.989 I'm really going to buckle down. And I'm going 00:36:30.989 --> 00:36:34.250 to give it a go with her. Like I hope she likes 00:36:34.250 --> 00:36:41.289 it because I like it. Yeah. And I kind of do 00:36:41.289 --> 00:36:45.199 like the. I did like the like rapid fire and 00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:47.679 that it changes constantly. I like the variety. 00:36:48.079 --> 00:36:51.300 Yeah. I mean, like, I like that it's different. 00:36:51.539 --> 00:36:54.719 I like that there's so many different moves for 00:36:54.719 --> 00:36:58.000 lack of a better word. Right. Right. And I think 00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:01.380 the dogs like that if it's trained properly and 00:37:01.380 --> 00:37:03.500 if we're giving them information, like I said, 00:37:03.519 --> 00:37:07.530 like I know. People get nervous in the ring and 00:37:07.530 --> 00:37:11.210 et cetera, et cetera. But like Zeal loved that. 00:37:11.349 --> 00:37:14.489 I would be like, good job, buddy. And he's like 00:37:14.489 --> 00:37:18.829 real like, oh, and then I, you know, two seconds 00:37:18.829 --> 00:37:21.769 later, you're at the next sign. Yeah. Good boy. 00:37:21.909 --> 00:37:24.949 Nice job. Right. Like I wasn't incessantly talking, 00:37:25.110 --> 00:37:31.739 but I was praising him. And he loved that. Yeah. 00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:34.780 And I think talking to Carol and Danette, they 00:37:34.780 --> 00:37:38.000 were like, people don't praise enough. They both 00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:40.320 said that they were like, they go through the 00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:42.719 whole thing. And they're like, tell your dog, 00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:45.260 like, give them some feedback, like, let them 00:37:45.260 --> 00:37:49.840 know because you can do that. Yeah, like you 00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:52.079 could totally you can do that in the ring. So 00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:54.099 you should be doing it in training. And then 00:37:54.099 --> 00:37:57.639 in training. Even if your dog's super advanced, 00:37:57.820 --> 00:38:00.699 you should periodically be breaking out the signs, 00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:03.699 feeding them individually a fair amount, keeping 00:38:03.699 --> 00:38:06.800 them fun. And then if you're doing courses, you 00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:10.780 should randomly throughout the course mark and 00:38:10.780 --> 00:38:14.179 reinforce your dog. And you should do it with 00:38:14.179 --> 00:38:18.340 food not on you. Like put the food right outside 00:38:18.340 --> 00:38:21.559 the ring or on the steward's table, right? Yes. 00:38:22.170 --> 00:38:24.269 run and give them a piece of food go back to 00:38:24.269 --> 00:38:27.389 the sign you left continue on from that sign 00:38:27.389 --> 00:38:30.750 right and always randomize where you feed not 00:38:30.750 --> 00:38:33.010 always like after you finish your sign sometimes 00:38:33.010 --> 00:38:35.489 in the middle of healing from one sign to the 00:38:35.489 --> 00:38:39.349 next sometimes in the middle of doing a sign 00:38:39.349 --> 00:38:41.469 right like don't finish the whole thing just 00:38:41.469 --> 00:38:45.230 in the middle of it go get so your dog never 00:38:45.230 --> 00:38:47.449 knows when it's going to get reinforced which 00:38:47.449 --> 00:38:49.829 is going to be really fun and exciting for them 00:38:49.829 --> 00:38:52.650 because they're going to be like maybe now, maybe 00:38:52.650 --> 00:38:55.690 now, maybe now. And then you're like now, and 00:38:55.690 --> 00:38:58.809 they're going to be like, wow. Right. Cause at 00:38:58.809 --> 00:39:04.349 the end is so predictable. It's like, why, you 00:39:04.349 --> 00:39:07.889 know, if you're looking from purely a motivational 00:39:07.889 --> 00:39:13.809 standpoint, why am I going to put effort in until 00:39:13.809 --> 00:39:17.489 the end? Right. Exactly. Nothing ever. I never 00:39:17.489 --> 00:39:24.219 get rewarded. Right. for that. Like, you know, 00:39:24.219 --> 00:39:26.860 what, why am I going to try hard? Like, what's 00:39:26.860 --> 00:39:31.039 the point? It just, there's no reason for it. 00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:37.940 Right. It's true. Yeah. So engagement, which 00:39:37.940 --> 00:39:42.599 we're going to is important for all sports, including 00:39:42.599 --> 00:39:47.960 rally, um, ring entrances, keeping everything 00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:53.429 fun. Yeah. Rewarding enough. Right. Don't always 00:39:53.429 --> 00:40:00.550 do chains like reward pieces. Yeah. Making sure 00:40:00.550 --> 00:40:03.989 because I think touching upon like distractions 00:40:03.989 --> 00:40:09.550 and stuff, I think that I don't know if people 00:40:09.550 --> 00:40:12.789 who exclusively do rally really get their dogs 00:40:12.789 --> 00:40:15.349 out in more distracting environments because 00:40:15.349 --> 00:40:17.309 they just go to class and do the rally courses. 00:40:17.449 --> 00:40:22.519 But that's like. You can still go do sign behaviors 00:40:22.519 --> 00:40:25.659 out in stores and stuff. Like you have to definitely 00:40:25.659 --> 00:40:30.039 put the distractions in for sure. Yeah, for sure. 00:40:30.179 --> 00:40:33.869 Yeah, I think that's. You don't have to rely 00:40:33.869 --> 00:40:36.369 on the signs for engagement. Just like when I 00:40:36.369 --> 00:40:39.630 start doing obedience and sometimes even to this 00:40:39.630 --> 00:40:42.329 day, when I do obedience, when I go to a store 00:40:42.329 --> 00:40:45.050 or something, I'm not always doing like a full 00:40:45.050 --> 00:40:48.150 healing pattern and a full retrieve and a full 00:40:48.150 --> 00:40:51.250 list. Sometimes I'm just doing pieces like I'm 00:40:51.250 --> 00:40:54.250 doing like for command discrimination. I'm telling 00:40:54.250 --> 00:40:58.570 my dog to down, walk away, turn. Yes. Good job, 00:40:58.630 --> 00:41:01.429 buddy. That was really good. Right. Or drop on 00:41:01.429 --> 00:41:04.190 recall. Leave my dog. Turn and face my dog. My 00:41:04.190 --> 00:41:07.409 dog looks happy. Yes. Good job, buddy. That's 00:41:07.409 --> 00:41:11.070 it. Things like that. Like you don't have to 00:41:11.070 --> 00:41:15.929 do the full exercise or the full sequence. Right. 00:41:16.070 --> 00:41:21.519 So you could literally just go and. heel and 00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:24.699 do right turn left turn or do front finish or 00:41:24.699 --> 00:41:27.699 do the sign without the sign being there you 00:41:27.699 --> 00:41:29.920 should know how to you know you should know most 00:41:29.920 --> 00:41:33.599 of the signs at certain point and but work on 00:41:33.599 --> 00:41:37.239 engagement the focus should be that the dog learns 00:41:37.239 --> 00:41:41.360 how to stay focused around distractions because 00:41:41.360 --> 00:41:46.039 what you know big thing with engagement i always 00:41:46.039 --> 00:41:49.590 tell people now If you're doing a hard task. 00:41:49.909 --> 00:41:52.550 That requires. I feel like I said this recently. 00:41:52.730 --> 00:41:56.570 But who knows. That requires a lot of concentration. 00:41:56.730 --> 00:41:58.829 And you're doing it in your house. That's one 00:41:58.829 --> 00:42:00.889 thing. But if you have to do it at Starbucks. 00:42:01.469 --> 00:42:04.530 And it's a busy day at Starbucks. It's hard. 00:42:05.170 --> 00:42:08.650 Because you have to tune all that stuff out. 00:42:08.809 --> 00:42:11.989 While concentrating. And that's what we're asking 00:42:11.989 --> 00:42:16.690 our dogs to do. And that's a skill. Like that. 00:42:17.150 --> 00:42:20.630 is really hard and it it's like a muscle like 00:42:20.630 --> 00:42:23.750 at first when i take a dog start taking them 00:42:23.750 --> 00:42:27.150 to new environments maybe if i only get a couple 00:42:27.150 --> 00:42:29.650 like a tiny little bit of engagement like they 00:42:29.650 --> 00:42:32.269 can do two or three behaviors and i can see that's 00:42:32.269 --> 00:42:35.489 hard for them then i'm like i'm out and then 00:42:35.489 --> 00:42:39.590 i have to build on that little by incrementally 00:42:39.590 --> 00:42:42.409 incrementally incrementally until my dog can 00:42:42.409 --> 00:42:46.079 do A minute, two minutes, three minutes, four 00:42:46.079 --> 00:42:51.019 minutes continuously, because that is very hard. 00:42:51.539 --> 00:42:55.619 Very hard. And it is. It's a it's a taught skill. 00:42:55.780 --> 00:42:59.039 I don't I'm not sure everybody understands that 00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:01.619 and the importance of it. That has to be taught 00:43:01.619 --> 00:43:04.380 and it has to be done incrementally for the dog 00:43:04.380 --> 00:43:09.260 to learn that skill for sure. Yeah. And I think 00:43:09.260 --> 00:43:15.309 that. Yeah, that's just not worked on enough. 00:43:15.489 --> 00:43:18.230 And it's not it's really not worked on if you're 00:43:18.230 --> 00:43:21.090 doing if you're doing a run through in class, 00:43:21.110 --> 00:43:24.730 like a course, like how are you working on engagement? 00:43:24.809 --> 00:43:28.869 Right. Like. To me, engagement trumps everything. 00:43:29.210 --> 00:43:33.170 Yeah. Whether it's obedience rally, any sport, 00:43:33.309 --> 00:43:36.250 really, I have a student in my one class doing 00:43:36.250 --> 00:43:38.550 waterworks. I don't even know. I didn't even 00:43:38.550 --> 00:43:41.539 know it was a thing. Yeah. Nevermind what it 00:43:41.539 --> 00:43:44.860 entails or, you know, so it's all new to me, 00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:50.179 but in essence we worked on, it was so fun, but 00:43:50.179 --> 00:43:55.260 it's a completely different sport. And you're 00:43:55.260 --> 00:43:59.260 like nothing like obedience or rally, but what 00:43:59.260 --> 00:44:01.940 is it? It's a bunch of behaviors, right? At the 00:44:01.940 --> 00:44:04.260 end of the day. And it's a bunch of behaviors 00:44:04.260 --> 00:44:07.639 that are strung together. So that's what we had 00:44:07.639 --> 00:44:11.099 to work on. And the dog has to be engaged because 00:44:11.099 --> 00:44:14.059 if the dog's not engaged, it doesn't, it's not 00:44:14.059 --> 00:44:16.199 paying attention. Right. It's not paying attention. 00:44:16.519 --> 00:44:19.659 How can it follow your instructions? Right. How 00:44:19.659 --> 00:44:21.860 can it even, it's not even going to be looking 00:44:21.860 --> 00:44:24.599 at the buoy out there that it has to go retrieve. 00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:28.500 Right. It's out at a lake. My dog should be like. 00:44:28.880 --> 00:44:31.039 That's so funny. Cause I have a student with 00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:33.280 this, we're doing the same thing. And she's like, 00:44:33.380 --> 00:44:36.179 yeah. And it was so funny. Cause she's like, 00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:38.880 I never like, she's like, this is a thing, this 00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:42.139 engagement. I'm like, yes. In everything we do 00:44:42.139 --> 00:44:45.170 with the dog. She's like. holy crap. She goes, 00:44:45.210 --> 00:44:47.110 cause these dogs, like some of them, they just 00:44:47.110 --> 00:44:48.750 want to go get, you know, they want to go to 00:44:48.750 --> 00:44:50.130 the other boat. They want to go to the other 00:44:50.130 --> 00:44:52.610 boat. And people are like, I just, I don't even 00:44:52.610 --> 00:44:54.309 care about the engagement piece. I'm just going 00:44:54.309 --> 00:44:56.670 to let my dog go do the thing. And she's like, 00:44:56.710 --> 00:44:59.150 it's a freaking shit show. She goes, this is 00:44:59.150 --> 00:45:01.610 like, this is a thing. We need to get engagement. 00:45:02.269 --> 00:45:05.110 She was like so shocked about it. And now she's 00:45:05.110 --> 00:45:07.650 like working so hard on it. It's so cute. I love 00:45:07.650 --> 00:45:10.610 it. I know. Yeah, it's so fun. This person I'm 00:45:10.610 --> 00:45:12.690 working with, she's great. She has really good 00:45:12.690 --> 00:45:16.909 instincts. But it's all new. And she's been doing 00:45:16.909 --> 00:45:20.289 this a long time. She's a judge in this sport, 00:45:20.489 --> 00:45:23.130 but it's not something they ever talked about, 00:45:23.190 --> 00:45:27.409 like transitions, pre -cues, like, you know, 00:45:27.409 --> 00:45:30.489 breaking the behavior down. She's like, why did 00:45:30.489 --> 00:45:32.969 you do that? I go, he's just not even, he's not 00:45:32.969 --> 00:45:35.769 confident. He's not, it's all the same issues, 00:45:35.869 --> 00:45:38.610 right? He's not confident. Just tell him he's 00:45:38.610 --> 00:45:41.630 right a bunch of times. Oh, and look, now the 00:45:41.630 --> 00:45:44.030 dog's like, oh, I know what to do. Run out and 00:45:44.030 --> 00:45:46.789 grab the thing. Yeah, he just needed to be told 00:45:46.789 --> 00:45:50.389 he was right. He was just like, oh, I'm not sure. 00:45:50.789 --> 00:45:54.989 You know, so it's like dog training is dog training 00:45:54.989 --> 00:46:00.170 is dog training, right? Like she has all the 00:46:00.170 --> 00:46:06.710 same pieces for that sport. need to be in place 00:46:06.710 --> 00:46:12.489 to get the kind of work she wants. Right. Right. 00:46:12.570 --> 00:46:15.269 And not just the kind of work she wants the dog 00:46:15.269 --> 00:46:18.329 she wants. Cause really what is it is she's like, 00:46:18.389 --> 00:46:22.269 well, my dog doesn't, why is my dog doing that? 00:46:22.710 --> 00:46:25.769 You know, I don't want my dog to look like that. 00:46:25.809 --> 00:46:28.510 I don't want my, right. Why does my dog look 00:46:28.510 --> 00:46:30.789 like that? Cause your dog's confused. Oh, well. 00:46:31.360 --> 00:46:34.199 No one wants their dog to be confused or you 00:46:34.199 --> 00:46:38.300 don't want your dog to be worried or uncomfortable. 00:46:38.659 --> 00:46:45.400 Nobody wants that, right? So, okay, well, that's 00:46:45.400 --> 00:46:49.179 why these things matter, right? Because when 00:46:49.179 --> 00:46:54.059 your dog is barely making it through the course, 00:46:54.179 --> 00:46:59.119 yes, you got the ribbon. Maybe you even got a 00:46:59.119 --> 00:47:05.500 placement. But are you happy with how your dog, 00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:09.039 with your dog's experience in the ring? And I 00:47:09.039 --> 00:47:12.300 think a lot of people aren't. They just don't 00:47:12.300 --> 00:47:17.760 know how to fix it or what piece is missing or 00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:23.159 what to do. Yeah. Why all that happened. Yeah. 00:47:23.800 --> 00:47:31.199 Yeah. So, yeah. So, reinforce more. Reinforce. 00:47:31.800 --> 00:47:37.340 Yeah. The pieces. Motivate them. Teach them. 00:47:37.460 --> 00:47:42.460 Teach all the pieces. Be a good teammate. Learn 00:47:42.460 --> 00:47:46.940 your signs. Take responsibility. And engagement. 00:47:47.699 --> 00:47:51.440 And that's going to have to be. Another topic 00:47:51.440 --> 00:47:57.079 we have to tackle. For sure. All right. Thanks 00:47:57.079 --> 00:48:00.239 everybody. Thank you. Bye.