Hi, everybody. Welcome to the Canine Connection
podcast. Today, Lori and I are going to continue
talking about reducing reinforcement. So in the
last episode, we talked a little bit about, you
know, making sure that we understand the value
of the reinforcement and the value it holds for
the dog and different things have different values.
Why are we giving using the reinforcer? What's
the purpose behind it? Are you even aware? of
how much you're reinforcing and are you reinforcing
so much that you're inadvertently creating learned
helplessness and that, you know, we should really
give our dogs a lot more credit because they
can do a whole lot more than we expect of them.
And I think like a couple examples come to mind.
Like I was just looking at one of my students
homework review with her puppy. He's very young.
Um, and she's doing like what I would consider
for a puppy that age. I mean, it's literally
a puppy. It's got, it can't be more than five,
four or five months old, five months old, maybe
four or five months old. And like, she waits
cause she waits for the puppy to find heel position.
Cause we're not micromanaging this puppy. We're
letting himself problems and he's doing it beautifully.
So he gets a little distracted. She waits. He
comes back, puts himself in heel position. She's
like, good boy. She doesn't give him a cookie.
She starts healing him. She heals him. She does
a few steps, does a spin, heals a little more,
does a spin, heals a little more, does a spin.
Then heals a little more, then gives him a reinforcer.
That's a lot. That's a lot. For a puppy that
young. And that puppy is happy as a clam. His
ears are up. He's bouncing. He's prancing. It's
pretty amazing, really. But it's because she
started this puppy this way, right? Solving problems.
not giving a high rate of reinforcement so she's
not even building that expectation in she's already
teaching the dog which isn't to say she'll never
in certain instances give the dog more reinforcement
but um she's just kind of like building that
in that expectation a lower expectation in terms
of how often you're going to get reinforced i
think when we have created inadvertently an expectation
and we start saying, okay, holy Hannah, like
I've been pumping cookies into my dog. I need
to start reining that in. You're going to hit
points and I'm not saying go from 30 cookies
to five, right? Gotta go from 30 to 25 to 20
to 10. But when you start reducing reinforcement,
Your dog is at some point going to look at you
and go, cookie now, right? And you're going to
go, no, we're continuing on. And the dog is going
to look unhappy, which is going to trigger us
emotionally. And we have to understand that that
look of sadness or unhappiness or disappointment
or all these words is really confusion. That's
really what it is. It's just confusion. The dog
is like, I don't understand why I didn't get
reinforced here because I always get reinforced
here. So this is different. I'm confused. I don't
understand what to do now. And in that moment,
you need to just do whatever you can. to get
your dog to give you just a little bit more work,
whether that's just a few tricks or whether it's
just like a little more healing or, you know,
come on, buddy, you can do it. Let's transition.
Let's move down here. And I'm going to set you
up for an exercise and then reinforce. So now
you're teaching the dog. No, just because you
didn't get reinforced, it doesn't mean you're
wrong. We just need to go a little bit more and
then you'll get reinforced. Yeah, so that's so
important. Kudos to your student for building
that in really early on because I think it's
really hard for a lot of people to... people
especially who are new to training and they just
start training a new puppy or a new dog, it's,
you know, the go -to is instinctively just to
feed a crap ton of food to the dog when you're
teaching and building new behaviors. And then
what happens is a lot of times, as we all know,
then all of a sudden we're like, like you said,
like, wow, okay. The dog is, the puppy is now
seven months old and I've been pumping 8 ,000
cookies into that one single behavior every single
time. So now that's just, that reinforcement
history is there already. So then. you know,
the longer it goes, the harder it is then to
have to explain to the dog. So it is, it's, it's
pretty fascinating how even at a young age with
a young puppy, like you can definitely start
building that concept in that not every rep may
get a cookie or, you know, you know, that's where
we're going to go into today is talking about
some variable reinforcement built into your training.
It's just, it is really important to start that.
Like we want progression too, right? Like you
don't want to stay stuck at the same behavior,
feeding the same behavior the same way every
time. Because at the end of the day, I always
tell my students, remember, remember, we talk
about this all the time. Your goal is to be able
to go in for X amount of minutes without any
reinforcer. So when you're training your dog,
that's where you need to like write it down,
right? Like you need to somehow mindfully put
that into your head that you need to start to
progress toward reducing reinforcers at some
point. And again, part of that is so important
is how do you know you're making progress if
you're not tracking it, right? Julie Bacon had
us on her podcast and we were talking about like
being good students and learning. And all of
us agreed that if we're not in some way, shape
or form tracking our training, however that looks,
you know, it could be a journal. You could put
it in your phone. You could use index cards like
everybody's brain is different. right whatever
works for your brain but if you are not keeping
track of it then it is going to go by the wayside
like there's no way like there's just too much
going on in our brains like dog training there's
just too much we have to pay attention to if
you're not tracking it next thing you know six
months have gone by and you've been feeding the
same behavior over and over and over and over
and then you go to not feed it and your dog's
like whoa what just happened you know um so that's
really important is for you to track and again
you know There's not all or nothing. Everything's
a gradation. So there are some days where I'm
working on very specific skills where I may give
a higher rate of reinforcement, right? Or I'm
purposefully trying to put value into something.
But then as soon as my dog is starting to understand
it, I immediately stop with that high rate of
reinforcement, like as quickly as possible, right?
So like a really good example of this is when
I teach dogs scent, right? So we all have these
tins and like the step one is I sent it and there's
a cookie under it. And I'm telling you, I start
this with like a seven to eight week old puppy,
right? So what in the old days? We would have
paired the scent and the cookie for weeks. I
do it for days. Like as soon as I see the puppies
got the idea, I don't put the cookie underneath
the tin anymore. And then as soon as the puppies
got that idea, I start adding more tins and I'm
adding them very quickly. Like every couple of
days I'm adding until there's a ton of them.
And as soon as my puppy gets that, I'm throwing
distractions in there. I mean, literally at that
rate. Right. Of like, and then as soon as my
puppy gets that, I start putting articles. Like
the whole process moves very, very quickly. And
the dogs across the board, all different breeds,
all different training levels, perfectly fine
with it. Right. And what do I have to do with
my students? Tell them, hurry up. Next step.
Next step. Next step. Because they want to, the
instinct is to stay at that one step. Yeah. For
way too long. So now it's like too easy. The
dog gets bored. And again, the dog's getting
reinforced. Rapidly. Rapidly. And for a very
simple task. If I keep making the task harder
and harder and harder, maybe you're still getting
eight cookie per rep, but you're doing more work
per rep. Every single time. Yeah, and I think
that's the whole progression thing where I think
what happens is, like you said, people aren't
keeping track of the progression. Like, they're
not mindfully, like, being aware of that. Or
some of it, too, I think a little bit is some
fear. The fear of moving forward and the dog
making a mistake. We've talked about that, too.
that's gonna happen anyway like we always we
always harp on this like they're gonna make mistakes
like that's the whole that's how you learn right
so there's a fear of trying to push it a little
farther making it a little harder and then the
dog makes a mistake and then everyone thinks
their dogs are never gonna they're gonna fail
and never be able to go on the right it's pairing
a mistake with like oh i just messed this whole
exercise up it's completely broken i'm sunk right
like uh no the dog just made a mistake right
like i'll have that student so god a terrible
training session i ruin my dogs or i'm like oh
my god it's not ruined you know and you can always
go back so i err on the side of pushing a little
Yeah, me too. If anything too hard in the sense
of like, I'm pushing, I'm pushing, I'm pushing
up. Let me go back a step. No worries. I have
no problem going back one or two steps. Right.
Okay. I went a little too fast. Sorry, buddy.
Let's review those steps. Okay. You good now?
And then push forward. Right. Because I always
want, not because I'm hurrying, but because I'm
pushing my, these dogs are so darn smart. They
are. You should be. pushing they pick it up push
them challenge them and and then they learn like
that figuring stuff out is fun that solving problems
is fun right um that versus this situation you
know where we're just like 30 ,000 reps of the
same thing actually um zesty's breeder recommended
this book on learning theory. And I literally
just, I'm in the, I just got through the first
chapter and I'm like, oh, this book's going to
be so good. Cause already, obviously they're
talking about humans, but it's the same thing.
They're saying that just learning by repetition
is not the most efficient way of learning. So
reading the same paragraph over and over for
a long -term retention is nowhere near as effective
as reading it once and then quizzing them on
it. Yeah. Right. So what does quizzing mean?
Cause we can't do a written quiz. It means make
it a little hard. Yeah. And let me see, can my
dog do it? And if my dog can't, then I'm like,
okay, that's just information. Right. I need
to go. Oh, he's a little confused. Let me go
fix this. Let me go work on this a little more.
OK, let me make it hard again. That's the piece,
Patriot. Like, I think that a lot of my students
will say they'll always turn and say to me, they'll
let me go. Well, what if well, what happens if
he doesn't get it right or what happens if he
doesn't do it? Like, I think there's that real
honest. They don't know what to do if the dog
makes a mistake. Like, and I just look at them
and say the same thing. I'm like, it's okay.
That's, that just means you just can go back
or back to where you were, you know, last right.
Make it a little simpler again before progressing
forward. And they're like, oh, okay. And I think
that's a, that is a true thing. Like they really,
a lot of people just don't know what to do in
that moment of the dog making a mistake. So that's
why I think there's a little bit of that relationship
of. fear of i don't know what to do if he does
make a mistake so i'm just gonna stay here for
months yeah and even just simplify like you know
um in nose work like i would like i'm just learning
right yeah so um i was setting stuff up and all
of a sudden i'm like yeah zesty i'm like what
he kind of is struggling a little bit right so
then i thought about it and i'm like oh you know
what, let me just make, let me just make, make
it really easy. So he can just like, I'm like,
that's what I would do in obedience. Right. I
would like go back a few steps and make it easier
for a little bit. So I just went back. I started
pairing food with the searches. I put searches
out and I was like, if there's a search that
he's struggling with, I'm just going to pretend
it's not even there. I'm just going to be like,
just. So and just go out and have success, success,
success. Right. And so I did that for a week
and boom, his confidence went back. Everything
got better. And so now I'm going to start fading
the food. So the key is like, just go back to
the prior steps. Right. Go back one or two steps
in the whole process of your teaching them. And
we do that forever because problems are going
to crop up. no matter if your dog is arch 15
right things are going to break down and then
the answer is always go break that skill down
the way you taught it and just refresh it yeah
but i think sometimes people think going back
means regression like you're going like oh now
i'm losing momentum or you know i'm it's regression
going backwards in your training And that's not
at all true. Like every athlete does foundation
skills. Like, you know, you can be a runner and
you have to do core work your whole running career.
Right. You don't just go, well, I did core when
I started running and now I never have to do
it again. Or I did, you know, form drills and
I know I have good form now. I never have to
do it again. Like, no. We're always going back.
Yeah. Revisiting. And revisiting that stuff.
And that's not going backwards. That's, you know,
every athlete, like every competitor will tell
you like fundamentals, like it's part of every.
pro athletes, teams, the whole nine yards. So
it's not going backwards. It's a normal part
of the process. So if you just shifted your mindset
and stop thinking like, oh, now I'm going back.
Right. No, just go back. You know, I can't tell
you how many several times now my dogs have struggled
with articles. I just go back. I pull out the
metal tins I taught them at. pull the bag back
out and we go back when we do a refresher for
a week or two and then boom, problem fixed. Yep.
Yep. Yeah. So definitely what is, you know, what
inhibits people from trying from pushing freely
for pushing forward in their training a little
bit for sure. Yeah. So now you have the answer.
If they get stuck, you just go back, but first
give them a chance. to puzzle it out, give them
a couple chances. Cause guess what? I bet you
they'll surprise you. Cause I can't tell you
how many times my students are like, he did it.
And I'm like, uh -huh. I know. I knew he would
be able to do it. And they're like shocked. And
I'm like, uh -huh. Go ahead and give him a chance.
Right. That's right. So, um, so don't. Yeah,
so we need to push them. They'll do way more
without, you know, for less, especially if you
start conditioning that in and pushing for that
and pushing for that over time. Yeah. And then
when the dog does look a little concerned, you
can't like completely panic and bail. You just
have to go, oh, interesting. Like to me, it's
information, right? When my dog gives me that
look, I go, huh, he expects a reinforcer now.
Okay. Let me see if I can push him a little further
and then I'll reinforce him. And then I make
a mental note. You know, this is where I must
be feeding a lot or too much or all the time
or. And then you have to kind of figure out like
you want to create little strategies. And this
is going to be very dog dependent and handler
dependent. Right. Like with Zaina, I can just
look at her, touch the side of her head and say,
good girl. Very good. And she's that makes her
happy as can be. She already knows she's great.
She's just like, oh, finally, you get it. I am
good. And that's good enough for her. She's fine
with that. But with Zesty, it didn't mean anything
to him. So when I was trying to figure out what
can I do, I realized I was recording some games
for this workshop that he likes motion. So I
just do these little motion games with him and
I paid him a fair amount initially and then paid
him less and less. And now he thinks they're
super, super fun. And we play them every time.
Like I sidestep, sidestep, sidestep. Or I do
some doodling, which is like step forward, step
right, step left, some pivots. He thinks those
are really fun. And then I've been inserting
that into my reinforcement strategy. So a lot
of the times I'll say yes. Then I'll do the game.
So we'll go side step, side step, side step.
He bounces really hard into me. Then I move a
little bit further. Then I reinforce. So now
I put something in between there and it's starting
to add value because it comes before the reinforcer.
And then eventually I was able to periodically
use the games and then use one of those motion
games and then just keep going and not reinforce.
And put that in place. And now I've been able
to actually use that in the ring. And it actually
happened this weekend. At one point he was like,
oh, food now, right? And I'm like, nope. And
I'm like, come here, we're doing the game. And
we did the game, did the game. And then I had
him back and we could keep going. And he was
in a good state of mind. Good. Yep. That stuff's
so important. Building, having. And just some
thoughtfulness on what you can build into your
reinforcer or your reinforcement event that I
always say legally can follow you into the ring
because we can't obviously bring food or toys.
So those little behaviors that you build into
those events definitely become valuable. And
it just becomes kind of a reinforcer in itself.
And then that acts as. Kind of like a cue to
the dog that they're on the right track and that
you're proud of them. And that's worth its weight
in gold for those little things that you can
bring into the ring and use in between exercises
and whatnot. For sure. That's smart. Yeah. And
for Zesty, it's huge because now I'm able to
say to him, by doing that game, it acts as a
little bit of a reinforcer for him, which says
to him, you're correct. That's the important
piece. It's not about... Like that he won't work
for without. No, it's that he needs to know he's
right. He needs to know he's on the right track.
Right. And that that's yeah, that you're doing
the right thing. And I think that's what the
vast majority dogs are looking for. Right. That
information to tell them. That's it, buddy. You're
on the right track. Now you have to be really
careful and watch what you do and how, whether
your dog likes it or not. Right. Like I've had
students that are like, wow. And they bend down
and ruffle the dog's ears. And the dog is horrified,
horrified. It's like. Get off me. Right. So I'm
going to I am starting to tell everybody now
you need to have the dog you train and then you
need to have a stuffed animal. You can hug and
kiss and do all this stuff to the stuffed animal.
Leave your dog alone. Yeah, very few dogs. Now,
there are some that like certain amount, certain
types of. Physical praise. Yes, there are some,
like I have one student, her dog, she like pets
the dog and the, she, whatever way she does it,
her dog, it's very clear. The dog loves it. And
I had asked her to submit, um, I was like, can
I borrow some video of that for, you know, a
workshop? So she recorded it and she sends it
to me and she goes, you know what? I was doing,
I did all this petting in between to video for
you. And I realized that whole time I never gave
him a cookie. I'm like, well, duh. So she, it
took her having to do that to actually click
that. No, for this dog, that is so highly reinforcing.
It's probably equal to a cookie or at least.
It carries, she could do a bunch of them before
she has to give a cookie. Yeah. So, but most
students, they're petting their dogs, they're
bending over, they're like, and the dog's like,
holy Hannah. Well, a lot of that too, just thinking
about it too, I think that people aren't really
acutely aware of that. Well, I got to go back.
I feel that some of that is actually for the
person to feel better. Do you know what I'm talking
about? Like in the moment they want, like they
don't, it's like kind of about them. They go
to tell their dog they're doing a good job without
even saying to themselves, like, does my dog
even fucking like this? I think that's a big
thing. Like you're not even aware because you're
in the moment, you're doing the thing, but you're
not really even saying, does my partner enjoy
this at all? Yeah, I mean, trust me, there have
been times when I... there are still times when
I'm like so happy I just want to bend down and
hug him and kiss him but I refrain because I
understand that like I remember when Zeal was
in I don't know whatever novice open summit he
gave me it was a really hard venue he gave me
such a nice class he gave me so much effort at
class was over exercise finish. I was so delighted.
I'm like, Oh my God, CLI bend down to hug him.
And he jumps away from me. And he looks at me
like, thank you very much. You can praise me
from over there. Now this is a dog that was in
the most physically affectionate dog I've ever
had. Like he hounded you to pet him until you
finally had to say, all right, enough, go, go
like, This is crazy. But in that scenario, he
did not like it. So I apologized and I never
did it again. So you need to watch your dog,
videotape it and be objective and say, does my
dog even like this? Because when I point it out
to my students across the board, they always
come back and go, yeah, you're right. I can see
that now. That's what I'm saying. Like in the
moment, you're in your own moment. You don't
even see it until it's like, dude, it's like
blaring. Your dog is like, get the fuck away
from me. Yeah. So you have to figure out what
your dog likes, right? So I spent some time experimenting
with Zessie. Like, okay, do you like if I touch
you here? Do you like if I touch you there? Do
you like if I say these words? Do you like it
better if I shut up? Do you like, oh, you love
motion. Okay, let me incorporate motion into
this. Oh, you like this. Do you like this? No?
Well, how about this? Oh, you like this. Good.
Like, that's what you literally have to do. Like,
you just have to go in your house or in your
garage or whatever and just experiment. and play
around now and then just because the first time
you say to your dog yes and then you go to do
this game and your dog doesn't do the game throw
it out the window no your dog's used to you saying
yes and immediately shoving a cookie into their
mouth before you even finish the s and yes right
so now you changed it it doesn't mean it's not
gonna work it just means you need to give it
some time and kind of convince your dog and be
a little persistent and keep working on it. And
all of a sudden your dog will go, oh, I get it.
Right. And you'll be able to use that. Right.
Yeah. So then we also, the other two things I
do very purposefully with reinforcement is chaining.
So it's teaching the dog. that the chain is going
to get longer and longer, right? So you can say,
well, a simple chain is just one exercise, right?
Like drop on recall. It's putting all the pieces
of that exercise together, right? So the dog
is used to you doing the setup and feeding or
the drop and feeding. And now you're going to
say to the dog, well, no, I'm not going to feed
you until after you front. right so again the
dog at first might look a little confused you
might drop the dog and the dog might go i get
a my reinforcer right and you might say front
and your dog might go huh and you might have
to say front again front come on buddy and help
them out so they understand and then reinforce
them right so they understand or it might be
a longer chain like for a whole class So I start
that, I'll do like a ring entrance, one exercise,
maybe start a transition, then mark, and then
my dog gets a jackpot, like a pretty high value
reinforcer, because I'm going to be asking you
to do long chains. So I want the value of the
reinforcer to equal or exceed the effort the
dog is putting in. And then just once the dog
gets that length in that chain a little bit more
and a little bit more and a little bit more.
And there are you're going to hit a threshold
where the dog's like, oh, my God, like right
by now. Right. Yeah. And you're going to have
to just be like, just a little more, buddy. Even
if it's not beautiful, even if it's a little
flat or it's not perfect, it's OK. Just keep
going. And then the jackpot. And the dog will
literally learn that the absence of the reinforcer
doesn't mean you're wrong. It just means keep
going. Right. Right. And that's where building
some of those little things that you were talking
about, you know, using some motion, some little
tricks or behaviors. Building in, like pairing
those with your reinforcer and vent, that's really
helpful for the dogs who start to get a little
confused because then they're, you know, that's
just telling them that, yes, you're right. And
then you can delay delivering the actual reinforcer.
You know, and I think what happens when people
start working on this is they become very robotic
when they're doing it. Like I did this, I did
this at my camp. I purposely made them all put
their reinforcers off their body because it forces
you then, right, to consciously, I wanted them
to make sure that they were putting in like a
relationship piece into that reinforcer and reinforcement
event. So that it's not just mark feed, mark
deliver, right? It's so important that you're
able to do that so that you can also take that
into the ring. Like when I release my dog in
the ring, sometimes I do exactly what I do in
training. I go, wow, oh my gosh, that was so
good. Wow. And then my dog's like, oh. great
sometimes in training I I do that and sometimes
I feed it and sometimes I don't so I put that
in a little bit as sometimes you may get a reward
for that particular thing we just did or sometimes
that it doesn't so that I'm able to put that
into the ring um I hope that's clear did I explain
yeah it is and then we should say too because
people get a little stuck in Like, you know,
cause it's been drilled into the us that like,
if I say yes, I now owe the dog a cookie. Right.
Cause that's the definition of yes means you're
right. The exercise is done. You're getting a
cookie. Whereas good means you're right. You're
correct. Keep going. You're not getting a cookie.
Right. So we developed like a different cue.
That means you might be getting a cookie. You
might not. You might be getting a game. You might
not. Yeah. You might, you know, you don't, you
might be getting a high value reinforcer, a low
value reinforcer, nothing motion game. We, you
don't know. And we're going to mix it up all
the time. So now we're not lying. Right. But
it's an exciting cue once it's developed because
it's really, truly a jackpot cue in the sense
of gambling, which is it's a variable reinforcer
in and of itself because it's unpredictable.
The dog never knows what it's going to get. Yeah.
So we'll say, wow, you use that same wow or do
you use a different word? Yeah, he's wow. So
say wow. And I'll be like, wow, that was super,
buddy. And sometimes that's all you get. Sometimes
I say, wow, super. And you'll get a cookie. Sometimes
I'll say, wow. And you'll get a toy. Sometimes
I'll say, wow. And I'll do a motion game and
we keep going. And then you can absolutely use
that in the ring because you're not lying to
the dog and saying you're definitely getting
a cookie because they're not. Right. Exactly.
And there was, you know, and in developing that.
And that had to be worked out with Ever for sure
because, you know, I would do wow sometimes and
then she would get her reinforcer. And then when
I started putting it on a variable, like, you
know, sometimes I would wow her after she did
the thing. And then I would be like. with me
like we're going to our next exercise and maybe
as we were just about to set up for the next
exercise then we would go and get her reinforcer
like so I that's how I started to build it in
but there were times I remember when I was starting
that I would do the wow and then I would be like
with me and I could literally see the look on
her face like in her head she's like dude um
doesn't wow mean like where's my reinforcer so
it was a work in progress to work through that
and when she did that I you know I just kept
going and smiling good girl that a girl and then
she slowly figured out that the wow is very you
know it could be wow after the second exercise.
And then we just continue and do everything.
Like if I'm just doing a run through and then
we get out of the ring and I give her her jackpot
or it can be wow. And we go transition to the
next exercise in the middle of that transition.
I give her her reinforcer. So that's how it was
developed, but it did take some time. She did
have some, you know, feelings about it for sure.
And in fact, this weekend. I felt this was a
thing with that. It was in my last class after,
I can't remember. It was such a blur, all the
freaking stuff we did. It was after some exercise
and I went, wow, what a good girl. And then I
went to my next exercise and just as I was about
to set up, she barked at me like pissed, like,
dude. Wait, like she gave it to me in the ring.
Like I, it was like shocking to see it. Like,
because instead of her actually going down and
getting like worried and stuff, she was like
pushy, like bitch deliver. It was so funny. Yeah.
So I think the key is it, like anything else,
I think people give up on these things too quickly.
Right. Like they start them. The minute the dog
looks worried, confused, upset, they're like,
oh, this isn't working. They don't know. Again,
they don't know what to do. And then they just
go right back to to feeding. Right. Or toy. Yeah.
Right. So, again, it's you just probably haven't
done it long enough. Like you just need to keep
working on it. You just need to be consistent.
Totally. So that and your dog will learn it.
It will learn. the new rules, the new games,
you just have to teach them. And it, you know,
if your dog is older and has a long reinforcement
history of it being a certain way, it's not impossible.
You can absolutely teach it to them, but you
have to be realistic. Like, of course, your dog,
you've built in an expectation. Your dog can
learn the new rules, but you have to invest the
time into it and you have to kind of stay, you
know, yeah, buckle up and don't bail, you know,
just don't be a bailer. Don't be a weirdo. Don't
be a bailer. Just work your dog through it, you
know, and they will figure it out. Like, again,
they're smart. you know, but we've taught them
certain patterns. So the other thing is, and
this is extremely hard for humans because we're
built on our whole lives. This is actually pretty
funny. I read this book this one time, right?
And like humans, we think we're so smart and
clever and we're so superior. And I read this
book and it's like, Yeah, no, you're making hardly
any decisions all day. You're just doing one
habit after the other, after the other. I'm like,
what? And it's like, well, think about it. You
don't even think about it because you get out
of bed, you go to the bathroom, you go downstairs,
you turn on your coffee, you do that, like you
do, you brush your teeth, you do a whole set
of routines. Every day, every day. Like I have
a routine even about like at hotels, like how
I unpack. The dog's water dish is always in the
bathroom. Like it's all a bunch of habits. So
certain things in dog training, it's good to
have habits. So it's good to know your footwork
by heart because now you don't have to think
about it. It's good to know. how you're going
to respond to errors, because then you could
just execute it. You don't have to think about
it. But the problem with is we develop reinforcement
habits and dogs pick up on those patterns very
quickly. So every time you halt, you feed your
dog. So your dog expects a cookie at whenever
you halt. It never expects a cookie on the about
turn. So big surprise, it doesn't really pay
attention on the about turn. Why should it? Nothing
ever happens till you halt anyway. So what's
the point, right? And so it all becomes very
predictable. And then when you change that pattern,
like you go in the ring and there's no reinforcement,
again, dog is completely and utterly confused.
So by definition, variable reinforcement means
the dog never knows when that reinforcer cookie
toy is going to come. Never. Which means you
must be your habit must be to be unpredictable.
Right. And that's hard because you actually have
to be aware of what how much you're reinforcing
where when. In order to be. to not be predictable.
So for sure, because I'm always paying attention
to what my dogs are saying, when my dog looks
at me and says, cookie now, right? That's like
a bell going off in my head. Like, oh, lady,
clearly you're feeding here way too much. And
I will never, and I will absolutely not feed
there. I will go a little further than mark and
feed, right? If I mark and feed and my dog looks
shocked like in the middle of a normal, in the
middle of an about turn, in the middle of a slow,
then that means you're almost never reinforcing
there. So you should be reinforcing there more
often. Right. So those are two like little, you
know, ways you can. jog your brain to say, Oh
shoot, I better mix this up. Right. If my dog
never looks surprised, that's a good thing. Right.
Because it means like I'm reinforcing in different
spots all the time. So my dog has no expectation
one way or the other. It just knows that it could
come at any time. Right. That's key that it can
come at any time. Right. Which means you have
to be super aware of what you're doing with your
own body, too, because a lot of people are reaching
for food. They're in their pockets. They're developing
cue systems that they don't even know they're
doing. So that's where you have to be really
careful that you're not, you know, inadvertently
attaching stuff to your reinforcing event so
that the dogs are looking for that all the time.
That's just clean handling stuff, right? Yeah,
well, if they're always saying yes as their hand
is in their pocket, the dog's no longer listening
for the word. It's now hyper -focused on your
hand because it says when the hand moves to the
pocket, that's my marker. So now instead of your
dog paying attention to looking at your face
or looking at whatever or thinking about what
it's supposed to be doing, your dog's distracted.
It's looking for your hand because is the hand
moving now? Is the hand moving now? Is the hand
moving now? Right. So that's why it's so important
to be clean and why we're constantly saying mark,
wait, then reach for the reinforcer so that you
separate them out. So the dog learns that it's
listening for the click or the word that that's
what's important. And then your handling, you
know, so your handling has to be really clean
with that. And the thing, so the thing with variable
two is I'm also varying session to session. So
let's say, you know, tomorrow I might give a
medium amount of reinforcement and training.
Thursday, I'm going to give a very low amount
of reinforcement and training. Um, Friday I might
give high Saturday low. So even day to day, like
it's never the same, right? Like you don't know
is today a day where you're going to get a higher
rate of reinforcement or a lower rate. Like,
and you can't always want, I should go have,
I meant to mention this with chaining is when
people start chaining, they all of a sudden they're
doing it every day. And every day they're doing
a long chain. And every day the dog's getting
a very low rate of reinforcement. Well, over
time, that's just going to be demoralizing. Right.
So everything, it has to change. It has to be
different. But within your sessions, even if
whether I'm giving a higher or lower rate of
reinforcement on that day, I'm still varying
where. I'm marking and feeding and like, for
sure. I'm like never doing it after exercise
finished. Cause that's so predictable. Right.
Right. I can do it and halfway in the middle
of a transition, I can set my dog up for an exercise
and then just not do the exercise and mark and
reinforce. I can stop in the middle of an exercise.
Like, and you just want to keep mixing it up.
Right. And being conscious of it. Yeah. I think
there are apps. I think I said to people, because
for some people, you know, there's so much they're
thinking about already. I'm sure there's an app
or you could go on YouTube and find something
that makes a tone on a varied schedule. Yeah.
So when you hear the tone, that's when you mark.
Right. Which can be very helpful for people,
for sure. Yes, because I think, you know, there's
so much to think about that if they also have
to think about that. And I think that's where,
too, it falls by the wayside, right? Because
they're thinking about their handling and the
dog and is the dog learning? Am I giving them
information? And then it's just so much easier
to just go click, cheat, click, cheat. Right.
So you just have to, you just have to create
better habits, but it's better off to do it.
You know, the sooner you do it, the better, the
easier it'll be on the dog. Just like, you know,
with my student now with this puppy and my training
partner too, like with her young dog, like she
just never, the dog never had a high rate of
reinforcement in its training. And it was just
okay with that. Like, because it just didn't
know any better. Right. So if we're just mindful
of that, you know, the sooner we start, obviously
the better it is. Doesn't mean you can't, it's,
you can't quote unquote fix it. It's just going
to take a little longer for your dog to learn
it. But the sooner you start. reducing reinforcement
and just really being mindful about it, the better
off you're going to be. I think a lot of people
also too, don't really think about fading reinforcement
until they're ready to go in the ring. Right.
Right. That's a big one. I'll have a trial in
three weeks. I should reduce my reinforcement.
Not sure that's going to work out too well. Right.
Right. So you want to be thinking about that
pretty much right out of the gate. Sooner than
later. Yeah. Like sooner. And yeah. And way before
you're thinking about going in the ring. Right.
Way before that. Right. Super important. Super
important. So I think that I think we covered.
I think that. Yeah. I think that's good. That's
a lot of info. Yeah, and you can always go on
our Facebook page when this episode comes out.
And if you have questions or who knows, maybe
we missed something or forgot something or we're
unclear about something, we're happy to talk
about that. Yeah, definitely. Just let us know.
Just let us know. All right. Less cookies. Less
cookies, everybody. Cookie detox. Yeah. Cookie
and toy detox. Put the cookies down. Love it.
All right. Thanks everybody. Happy training.