Hi, everybody. Welcome to the Canine Connection
podcast. Today, Lori and I are going to start
a series on reducing reinforcement. And I say
start a series because there's no way we can
cover it all in one episode unless the episode's
like three hours. True. So I think we should
just start by clarifying reinforcement in the
sense that I don't. people, I don't think most
people really think about reinforcement very
carefully and even use it mindfully to begin
with, nevermind reducing it. Right. So for example,
people, so I think of reinforcement as a tool
and as information and I use different. types
of reinforcement for different things, right?
So if I want my dog to really think about something
and problem solve, I'm not going to tug and tug
and tug until my dog's eyes are popping out of
its head and then go now solve this problem because
I just use the reinforcer to raise the dog's
arousal and that's not optimal. So I don't even
think, I think people just like either click
cookie or click toy. And they're not even really
thinking like, what is the value of this reinforcer?
Can I make this cookie more or less valuable?
Like, what am I using it for? What's the point
of this? And like, the other part is you're just
mindfully giving cookies all the time, like cookie,
cookie, cookie, cookie. And then I'm like, wait,
what was that cookie even for? you like if you
toss a reset cookie and the dog comes back and
goes into heel position and it knows heel position
really well and you're giving another cookie
what's that cookie for for coming back to heel
position at what point should the dog just be
doing that out of habit and it shouldn't even
get a cookie anymore and then you ask the dog
for one behavior and give another cookie and
then toss another reset cookie and the dog comes
back and you give another cookie now you just
gave five cookies in like 20 seconds how is your
dog gonna work in the ring or whatever sport
you're at how is your dog gonna be able to do
that yeah Yeah, and I think that that's a big
thing. People aren't mindfully keeping that in
their head that at the end of the day, eventually
my dog needs to work without reinforcement for
X amount of time in a hard. harder environment,
right? Like that's, I think, where people are
like, they're just, they're in, I think they're
in the moment with their dogs, not thinking about
the end picture and the end goal with reinforcers
in mind. I also think that there's a huge emotional
component attached to People just giving the
reinforcer because it makes them feel good. They
want to make their dogs feel good. So things
are just being handed out without any sort of
like mindful structure to it at all. and it's
used as a crutch like or as a bribe right like
you want to think to yourself is this a crutch
or is it a bribe or is it information right so
the second the dog struggles or the second the
handler's unsure of how to fix something or help
the dog or the dog looks unsure or the dog you
know looks distracted they grab the cookie and
then instantly guess what the dog looks better
and then We feel better. And then we're like,
this is how I want the dog to look. But no thought
is even going behind that. It's like this instinctive
thing, right? Well, that's emotion. Yeah, it
is. And I think what happens is it's exactly
that. Like it's that emotional component, especially.
especially when others are watching. Like, I
find this all the time, like, because I run a
lot of matches at my facility, right? And we
go to a lot of matches. We see it. So something
starts to unravel. The dog is making mistakes
or the dog is starting to, you know, it's starting
to just unravel in whatever way. And, you know,
all of a sudden the person just. dips into their
pockets and the cookies come out, like whether
they're just putting a cookie on the dog's face
or whatever. And then they just keep going and
doing the thing to get to the end. And I will
ask them, I'll say, but don't forget, you need
to go, if your goal is to trial, remember you
can't have cookies in the ring. That is the simple
statement I say to them. And they go, oh yeah,
you're right. Like they forget. Well, they forget,
but I also, I also think two other things happening.
One is if they don't immediately know how to
fix it, right. Or know the answer or know what
to do. They just panic and grab a cookie rather
than say, hold on, let me, or let me use the
cookie right now, but I know I'm doing it and
I know why, but I'm going to go home. And I'm
going to figure out for next time what I could
do instead. Right. I'm going to look for that
solution. But they're not doing that. They're
just grabbing the cookie. It's band -aiding the
problem. And off they go. And for a lot of people,
they don't know, you know, what the steps are
maybe. It's that whole mindfulness thing, right?
And that's where it all starts, right? Like you
have to say, okay, like what I've had students
do is take a notebook, put it on a table next
to the cookies. Cookies can't be on your body.
And every time you go to give a cookie, write
down that you gave a cookie and write down why,
right? Because something has to force you to
think. first, before you can even reduce it,
is why am I giving this reinforcer? What am I
trying to achieve with it? Like, what is my goal?
What am I trying to accomplish? And so, for example,
if I'm working on fine -tuning fronts, then guess
what? Cookies are in my mouth. I'm giving a very
high rate of reinforcement and I'm very conscious
that I'm doing it and I'm doing it for a reason.
Right. Because I'm working on a detail. But the
next day or in another situation, nothing is
on my body. No cookie, no toy. I'm very mindfully
doing that. And every reinforcer I give, like
I'm acutely aware that I am giving it and that
there's a reason why. And I'm always thinking
in the back of my head, even from when I have
a little tiny little puppy, that there's going
to come a day where my dog has to work for nine
continuous minutes under extremely difficult
conditions for zero reinforcer. Right. Right.
And that's a huge piece that people. are not
they don't really think about it until they're
in the ring and it all falls apart yeah that's
exactly what happens and then they and then they
do that that realization comes and they go it's
they say it all the time it's because i don't
have food on me And like you just answered your
own question, you know, like you just solved
your own problem because it's a reinforcement
problem. Because, you know, the dog has never
learned to work without that constant rate of
reinforcement being given to them. Yeah. And
reinforcement gets a bad rap among in some ways
because people like have developed this. I don't
know. philosophy where it's like oh well the
dog is only working when there's food as if it's
the dog's fault as if the dog is lazy and the
dog is only working when you have food on you
and in the absence of the that the dog is quote
-unquote blowing you off the dog doesn't want
to do it the dog isn't motivated you're bribing
the dog blah blah and That's not the case at
all. The dog is just confused as shit because
the reinforcement also becomes part of the whole
picture. And think about it like none of us are
working for free. So. If you go to work and you're
getting paid your full salary, and one day you
come in and they're like, you're not getting
paid at all. You're just going to shrug your
shoulders, go okay. And work the same amount.
Hell no. Well, hell is going to break loose,
but people never think of it like that. Right.
And then what happens is they, they turn around,
they get, they get like mad at the dog and be
like, well, you know what? we're not having cookies
at all anymore. No cookie. And I'm like, whoa,
that's what they do. Like it's the dog's fault.
And I'm like, no, no, no. And it's our fault
because we created an expectation, right? And
we made it part of the whole process. Like I
can tell. I guarantee you, I could be like a
circus act, right? Come train your dog and I
can tell you exactly when and where you give
your dog cookies. Because the dog is going to
say it. The dog clears day, goes, cookie now,
right? And I'm like, because that's where they
get fed every time, right? Cookie now, right?
And then the... When the dog's like only half
paying attention, I'm like, I can tell that the
dog never gets reinforced there because it doesn't
expect it. It's like, yep, I never get fed in
the middle of a healing pattern. So whatever,
I'll just get through this part so I can get
to the halt. And then as soon as you halt, the
dog's like, yay! It's so true. Because that's
always where I get a cookie. And then you halt
in the ring. The dog goes, cookie now, right?
Gets no cookie. And the dog's a jerk. No, the
dog's like, wait. Oh, something's wrong. What
happened? Right? And that confusion. That concern,
then they start thinking they did something wrong.
They don't understand what's happening. They're
very confused. And then all those ring behaviors
that we claim are quote -unquote ring stress,
it's just a dog being completely confused. Right.
Right. Yeah. And, you know, just to note, like
reinforcement is always quote -unquote on the
table, right? We don't withhold reinforcement.
It is available. It's just that after we teach
behaviors where we, you know, you're using a
lot of food to teach and. reinforce behaviors
right once those behaviors become solid then
that's where the shift needs to take place that
mindfulness of keeping track and starting to
put your reinforcement on a variable schedule
right so going back to like reinforcements always
that though before the variable reinforcement
I think we should even go back because people
aren't even good at working with the reinforcer
not on their body yeah yeah you know what I'm
saying like yeah absolutely which is like it's
just a matter of moving it's just a matter of
going to I it's just inconvenient right because
if I because if I say yes and the cookie's right
on me I just get it out of my pocket. But if
it's on the table, I actually have to walk to
the table. Right. Well, it's hard in the sense
because there's a habit of these, of people constantly,
like I've got people who have come to me where
like their hands are living in their pockets.
Like they're walking around with their hands
in their pockets. Like, like, so in that sense.
I'm like, put all your food on the table. And
they act like I just cut their arms off. Like
what? They can't function. But that's like, that's
what I'm saying. Like that gets really hard,
but you're right. That's got to start. Discipline
yourself to do it. Right. Just like put the container
on the table. Don't have it in your hand. Think
of it as like, oh, good. You're getting extra
steps in today. Right. Because. You're just going
to do the same work. Like I do this when I have
a puppy. I put the treat in a container on the
table and I'm doing my stuff and I take a cookie
off the table and I hand the puppy a cookie.
So right out of the gate, I'm not saying I never
have food on me again, but my dog immediately
is also exposed to. The fact that sometimes the
food's not on me and it's over there and that's
okay. It doesn't matter. You're still going to
get it. I just need to go over there to get the
food. What's nice about that too, just to sneak
this little piece in, is because what happens
a lot when the food's on the person is they are
just... literally just a PEZ dispenser. You know,
they're just either, and if they mark, they're
just marking and feeding, marking and feeding.
And what happens is I feel is like, then there's
an absence of like that relationship factor that
should be also put into the reinforcement event,
whatever that may be. So having food off your
body gives you that chance to be like, yes wow
look at that you did incredible let's go get
your reinforcer like I love that piece that now
starts to there's a little bit of time to build
that in um I just wanted to sneak that in there
no that's super important no I mean that's super
important and um Don't let the dog run to the
reinforcer without you. Right. Because this is
something you should be doing together. You should
become you should be you should always be part
of the reinforcement rate event. Right. Like
I have a little puppy. It's eight weeks old.
It does something. I say yes. And I'm looking
right in its eyes and I say, yes. And like, my
face is happy. And I'm like, that was really
good, buddy. Super job. And then I give the cookie.
Like, I always insert myself in between that
anyway. But like, I can't, I almost can't not
do it. This goes back to that whole thing. We
briefly talked about, or maybe more than briefly,
but it's worth revisiting the whole mark. rush
to get the reinforcer to the dog right which
is like I don't know oh my god that's hard to
break people of and I think food off your body
significantly helps with that because people
are like They're in their pocket, they already
got the cookie out, and then they're saying yes.
Now, first of all, all you're doing is making
the dog pay more attention to your hands than
anything else, because your hand is predicting
the marker, not your voice, not the sound, right?
And you're in such a rush to get the dog the
reinforcer that you're like... blending it all
together like it's just a big murky mess and
you're not adding your personality into it and
your praise and the relationship that's what
you can take in the ring like you're not taking
the cookie or the toy in the ring but the whole
thing about like it's so crazy it's one of the
hardest things to teach people is to separate
the marker oh gosh from the reinforcer yeah it
is i just and i just put a workshop up on my
thing for that because i'm like we're doing a
workshop because we need to carve that out and
single it out so people can just work on that
for two hours it's a thing it's our only way
of communicating what we want and we're messy
about it and like every class I talk about it
and like every time and then people say to me
oh I know my markers were off I gotta fix that
just fix it like it's so important like it's
the it's like like this is again if we just compared
everything to human life like Everyone has a
person in their life, a human that they have
that they're in some sort of a relationship with
that they find maddening because the communication
is not the lines of communication are not wide
open and clear. Right. And they get so frustrated
with that person because the communication is
not good. And so we all know how that feels.
And. not only is the communication bad, it causes
frustration. It causes feelings of not being
heard, not being respected. It causes a whole
big giant mess. And yet that's what we're doing
to our dogs. Cause like the only thing that tells
the dogs if they're on the right track or not
is our marker system. And we're a mess with that.
Makes me crazy. Makes me crazy too. Makes me
crazy. So, but yeah, so food off your body is
a great way to separate the marker from the reinforcer
and a really good place to insert praise and
you're like into the relationship. So since we're
here though, we should clarify that because what
some people, it doesn't matter what you think.
Is praise. It matters what the dog thinks, right?
So if you're bending down and ruffling your dog's
face and your dog leaps away or turns their head
or backs up or drops their body or squints their
eyes. They don't like it. They don't like it.
If you're faking it. they are truth these dogs
know the truth so if you're like good job fighter
and your dog's gonna go dude whatever like stop
what is our favorite saying stop being a weirdo
right it has to be genuine Right. And it has
to be something the dog likes. Usually standing
up tall is always a good option. I know it's
counterintuitive. I know we want, we would like,
but I'm going to tell my students now, if you
have this overwhelming urge to bend down to your
dog, get a stuffed animal, hold it under your
arm because, because your dog doesn't like it.
They don't like it. So stand up really tall.
Get out of your dog space. I don't care if you
have a tiny dog. They hate it even more. Stand
up tall. Get out of their space. Genuinely praise
the dog. Look at your dog. Analyze. Does my dog
like the way I'm praising them? If not, let me
try something different. Some dogs don't like
the sound of our voices. I've done this with
a ton of students now where they're not allowed
to. praise verbally at all they just say the
words in their head and the dogs can read it
and the dogs are tons happier so you have to
figure out what your dog likes and initially
your dog's not going to like anything because
if all you've ever done is go click cookie click
cookie click cookie or click toy click toy your
dog's going to go dude where's the cookie where's
the toy and you're going to have to work extra
hard and be super patient and maybe read the
direct the dog back towards you a few times because
a dog might go oh cookies are over there hurry
up and give me the cookie and I'm like no get
over here no we're gonna go together and I'm
gonna tell you how good you are and if you go
to bolt over there I'm gonna get get back here
and if you're just patient and diligent it'll
come around right Right. And those dogs are going
to call you out like the ones that you've sort
of trained to just like give cookies after you
clicked or marked or whatever, because they usually
are just staring at your hand. They don't really
they're not engaging with you. Like I want my
dog when I go, yes, I want them to look me right
in the eye and be like, really? That was so good,
buddy. Wow. Oh, Jen, they're jumping up and they're
looking at me. Cause a lot of times too, they
don't know where their reinforcers coming from.
They don't know if it's on me. They don't know
if it's over on the table. It could, and that
could be the thing. Like it could be on me. It
could also be on the table. It could also be
on the floor somewhere. Like they don't know
where that's coming from. So that gets built
in too. So then that kind of makes them stay
with me. They're still engaged with me. They
think it's super fun. They think that is like,
they just think that's like really fun until
I say like, whatever it is, how they're going
to get their reinforcer. Well, and that's really
key too, because the thing that's most rewarding
for them is that dopamine rush they get. in the
moments before the food or the toy. So if you're
shoveling it in their mouth, you're taking that
away, right? It's that anticipation of it coming
that releases all those chemicals that feels
really good. So you're actually getting way more
out of your reinforcer if you delay it. than
if you give it immediately right so if you're
like yes and the food's in their mouth it there's
no time for it at all but if you're like yes
and you're praising and they're like oh you know
it's coming it's coming it's coming where's it
coming from that is very exciting for them And
that's what releases all those chemicals, right?
And that's what happens between the marker and
the actual delivery of the food or the toy. Right.
And most people are missing out on that completely.
So you would start by just putting the food or
the toy on a table, move away, have the dog do
one or two behaviors. Mark. Praise. Go to the
table. Give them the cookie or the toy. Right.
That's how you start. Like if you've never done
it. Right. That teaches the dog just because
it's not on me doesn't mean the reinforcers.
It's like you said, it's still available. The
reinforcements available. It's just not on my
body. Right. And so if you do that with some
tricks, the dog quickly figures that out. And
then you can carry it over into your actual training.
Just be aware, like I mentioned earlier, like
initially they may then look to the table or
go run to the table or wherever you have the
reinforcer and you just have to work them through
that. Yeah. Yeah. So then I think the next step
is you have to be asking yourself like. why am
I giving this cookie? Does my dog really need
it? Right. Cause at some point, at least for
sure, certain foundation behaviors should just
become habits and they should be so ingrained
that they like, I never for it's been years,
literally many, many, many, many, many years
since either of my dogs have gotten a cookie
for getting into heel position. Like ever. Right.
You know, like ever. So that doesn't need a cookie.
It's just ingrained. Right. So at some point
you have to say, all right, this is a behavior
my dog does all the time. And that behavior should
sort of be fun, right? Like if you make that
be, so for my dogs, tricks, right? Everybody's
dogs loves tricks and thinks they're fun. Why
do dogs think tricks are fun? Because we think
they're fun. There's no pressure behind it. So
if you make things like getting into heel position
a trick. Front finishes a trick, sit down, stand,
backing up in those positions a trick, hold a
trick. If you make all these things just a silly
pet trick, then your dog's going to happily do
it. And it's not even going to need to be reinforced
because it's self -reinforcing. Right. Super
important. Yeah. So you want to. say to yourself
like you know why am I giving this cookie or
this tug does my dog need it and maybe it does
and then go ahead and do it but maybe it doesn't
and maybe you can skip that um reinforcer and
just keep going maybe you could turn certain
behaviors make them really fun so that your dog
thinks they're tricks maybe you can insert a
trick and use it as a reinforcer right like I
could do a little bit of healing and then go
wow that was nice and do twist spin bounce and
then that is the reinforcer for my dog because
if my dog thinks those tricks are super fun and
they make my dog super happy they can serve as
a reinforcer sometimes absolutely and what's
nice about that is some of that can be sort of
brought into the ring with you too you know because
they just become self -reinforcing and then that
will make your dog feel better so in between
exercises like I just did this last weekend you
know after whatever exercise I told her what
a good girl I just put my legs apart I just signaled
her to weave. Oh my gosh, she thought that was
the best freaking thing in the whole world. It
instantly like made her like jump in the air
and off we went to the next thing. So that's
really nice to integrate that as part of like
your reinforcer because that, you know, those
little bits you can kind of modify to bring right
into the ring with you. Totally. Yeah. And a
lot of people in things like rally, they're like,
well, how do we do that? We don't have transitions.
The exercise doesn't end. Well, when I did rally
with zeal, the funny thing is most of the things
the signs ask us to do, he thought was a trick.
Like my dogs think backing up is a super fun
trick. Right. So if I get to a sign and it's
like three steps back. He doesn't feel like he
just did like hard behaviors. He was like three
steps back. He thought he just did the most fun
trick and then we keep going. Right. And then
it's down, sit, stand. And he's like, back up,
down, sit, stand. Because to my dogs, those are
tricks. So he's like, I just did another three
tricks. So like almost every sign, like pivot.
My dogs think I doodle with pivots all the time.
I use pivots as a reward. Like I'm using them
now a little bit as a reward in the ring. Like,
so it's just a matter of taking the time to make
those little pieces so fun. And it's so easy.
You could just do it in your house, right? That
your dog thinks it's the most fun thing. And
then it doesn't need. um, reinforcement. It,
it becomes the reinforcement, right? Which is
really nice. And the other thing I do is, um,
I don't, even at a very young age, like as soon
as my puppy can do one hand touch reliably, I
immediately ask for two before he gets a cookie.
And then as soon as the puppy can do two, I ask
for three. Before the dog gets a cookie. So I'm
like, I'm always asking for more before the dog
gets a reinforcer for multiple reasons. One,
just because I want more effort for less reinforcement,
but also because the more effort the dog puts
in, the more animated and engaged the dog is.
Yeah, I was just going to touch upon that, too.
You know, the more animated, the more effort
they put in, like, and that's the piece like
you kind of want to start to build in is, you
know, the reinforcement will come, but they just
don't know when or how. And you kind of want
to develop that like whole little piece where
the dog's like, how about now? Okay, not now.
Okay, I'm going to keep going. How about now?
Like you kind of want to build that piece in.
That's what we're trying to do. Instead of the
dog not being really taught well enough what
that whole thing means when we start, you know,
reducing the rate of reinforcement or putting
it on more of a variable schedule. If that's
not mindfully done, then you're not going to
create that. You're going to create. like let
down, disappointment, confusion, stress in the
dog. That's a huge piece. What happens is like
if you ask for two, let's say three, and your
dog gives you two and then just looks at you,
what do people do? Panic and give the dog a cookie,
right? 99 % of the time, all you need to do is
wait. You just don't wait. You just don't get,
and then the dog looks unsure and we panic. Give
that, no, stop. Let the dog puzzle it out. Zaina
gave me such a good, I wish I had it on video
yesterday. Like, because there's this whole bad
thing about struggle these days, right? And I
mean, oh my God, I could go down a whole rabbit
hole with this, but struggle is not bad, right?
So I was doing nose work with her. And there
was like, I don't know, maybe a four foot, three
or four foot wall. And I had put the odor on
top of the wall. Right. So when she put her front
feet up, she was not at the very top. Like she
couldn't put her paws up on it. Right. So she
knew it was up there, like kind of. And she's
like trying to figure out exactly where. And
she's like, you know, going side to side to side.
And all of a sudden I see her and she's like,
huge effort leaps up onto the wall. Right. And
then she's like, there it is. The expression
on her face. I wish I could have bottled that.
She was so proud because she was like. This stupid
wall isn't going to mess me up. I figured it
out. I jumped up on it and I conquered this wall.
And look, it's right here. And she was looking
at me with this look of absolute pride, right?
A very different look than when she's trotting
along and she's just like, oh, it's right here.
She's still like, oh, look, I found it. very
different look though the struggle the work she
put in and the fact that she had to put effort
in to solve the problem and she figured out that
jumping up was the solution that gave her that
forget the cookie at that point she was reinforcing
herself because she overcame the struggle right
and that's what we take that's what We are constantly
taking away from our dogs that feeling. We're
robbing them of it constantly. Yeah, and we really,
you know, at the end of the day, like, we need
to help the dogs develop into being problem solvers,
right? puzzle things out because it is going
to be hard in the ring. There's going to be moments
where you need your dog to dig deep or, you know,
in despite of if they're a little confused, I'd
rather have my dog do something rather than nothing,
right? Yes. And it is like it's just an empowering
feeling for the dog to do that. And you're right.
Like a lot of people like that's that emotional
piece where they're like, oh, God, my dog's struggling.
Let me help them or let me just give him a cookie
because that was good enough. Like, no, like,
don't forget, like we're looking for always in
our training. You don't want to stay static like
everything we're doing. We want that progression.
We want that end goal to be what we need them
to be. to be prepared to go in the ring. Yeah.
And we're really creating learned helplessness,
right? And that's a thing. I mean, we're creating
a situation where every time the dog hesitates
for a split second, we're leaping in either with
a reinforcer or with help. And then when you
remove all that help, the dog does not know you've
done the dog a great disservice. And it's a horrible
feeling for the dog. Like it feels like it's
been just left hung out to like hung out there.
And like you're, you've abandoned them and they
have, they don't have the skillset. To do it,
a woman once said to me when I was doing rehab
on dogs and my clients come week after week and
they talk and I don't know, start telling each
other way too much stuff, right? And I've done
a lot of things in my life because I've had to,
but in any event, so she looks at me one day
and she's like, wow, she's like. I'm so envious
of you and I'm like what and she's like I can't
do anything like my husband has to do everything
for me like I just I don't I can't do anything
and she's like and she literally said to me and
it's a terrible feeling so then well right so
I won't go down the rabbit hole of what I you
know of course I gave her but the point is The
her saying like on the outside, you might say,
oh, how nice my my husband, your husband does
everything for must be nice. Right. But she said
it's a terrible feeling. Right. Because she's
helpless in essence. Right. She's relying on.
Yeah. If he left or if something happened to
him. holy Hannah, like, what is she going to
do? It's going to be horrible. Right. Yeah. So
that's what we're doing to our dogs. We're putting
them in a situation where we're never making
them struggle or work or push and then go, look,
I did it. And right. Yeah. So it's something
people really need to think long and hard about.
And I get it. It's not easy. I'm a control freak.
You know, when my dog's like stuck or something,
I'm like, oh, same. Well, I don't think it's
comfortable for anybody to stand there and watch
it, you know. And of course, everybody's like,
oh, God, my dog, my dog's broken. Oh, God, my
dog's not going to trial. Like, just relax. Like,
you don't learn everything on the first try.
Right. And what does it feel like when you finally
freaking figure out how to do it? Like my daughter,
she's a theater kid and she was asked to be a
stage director. And they asked her if she knew
how to read music and she didn't. So she was
like, I'm going to figure it out because I want
to be stage director. So she did. She bought
like a $3 .99 app and taught herself how to read
music. And she was like, I know how to read music
now. Like she felt so proud of herself. Loved
it. So, you know, just let your dogs have that
glory. Dogs do. They love to solve problems.
And they liked it and it makes them feel really
good. And it's just, it's so hard. It's just
like my training partner has a puppy, right?
Like very young puppy, like puppy, puppy, puppy,
eight to 10 week old puppy. And so we're in a
training building. There's three of us there.
My other training partner had her dog out. She
has a puppy out and. what have we been taught?
Don't let it look away. I'm like, leave it alone.
Every time it comes to you, have a party, right?
So at one point the puppy wanders off and she's
like, ah, I'm like, don't do anything, but don't
do anything, right? Puppy wanders off. All of
a sudden the puppy goes, wait, and runs back
to her, right? Yes, we had a party. Did that
two or three times. And then all of a sudden
it didn't leave anymore. But the time, like not
doing anything while that puppy was wandering
off, that's the critical moment. That's the point
where everybody's like so uncomfortable, where
we've been in obedience for sure. We've been
taught for decades. You never let them do that.
You never blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right?
And guess what? The puppy figured it out on its
own, but it only figured it out because I was
like, don't do anything, but don't do anything,
but don't do it. And so, I mean, there's thousands
of examples, but, you know, we just need to think
about that. It's really, really important. to
incorporate that into our training build that
into our dogs and you know when we reduce reinforcement
there are going to be moments and times where
the dog's like confused and that's going to look
like whatever negative thing you want to label
it as and in that moment you're going to have
to make a decision do i fall back My same old
strategy of I grab a cookie, I grab a toy, or
do I work through this, right? Do I figure out,
okay. And we'll talk about some of those strategies,
but like how, what can I do to get my dog past
this point? Right. A little bit past this point.
And then I can give the dog reinforcement. And
then not only are you delaying reinforcement,
but the dog's learning. Don't panic. Just keep
going. Correct. Yeah. Lots to unfold here. Maybe
we should stop here. Yeah, I think that we can.
Because it's a lot there for people to process
and unpack. And I think, too, like, go to our
podcast Facebook page. Anything you guys want
to, you know, if we miss something or things
you want us to touch upon, because I think we'll
definitely do at least another episode on this.
Yeah. Yeah. Let us know. Put it there. And we'll
happily add it into the next episode. Or, well,
except this one will be out. Well, whatever.
We'll throw it in somewhere. yeah yeah definitely
all right thanks everybody thanks bye bye