Hi, everybody. Welcome to the Canine Connection
podcast. Today, Lori and I are going to follow
up a little bit on the last podcast where we
talked about how incredibly challenging it is
to get the dog in the ring that we would like
to have. I guess more specifically, we're talking
about Zesty and Ever and about... thing that
we're going to try and change some things, change
our perspective on things, do some things differently
and so on. So I think it's been, I want to say
maybe a week and a half, give or take since then.
Yeah. And Lori said she's been doing a lot and
thinking a lot and she did have one show. So
she's going to tell us all about that. And then
we're just going to see where this leads us because
we don't have a plan. Yeah. um so the last time
we talked we had talked about um a bunch about
you know the dogs in their arousal state like
in training we can definitely get them up you
know as soon as we pull the cookie out we can
get them to look flashy and exciting and in the
in the game um but that's not necessarily what
we get in the trial ring like we talked about
so But it's easy to do that the second, you know,
it's easy to just pull a cookie out or play the
game. And that's that's going to create that.
So I had come up with a couple of things last
time we talked about, like where I was just going
to do some more of like like calming praise to
her in the ring, like good girl with. And I had
talked about using that wow word, which is kind
of like. You know, sometimes we feed that, sometimes
we don't, but it's just another cue that we can
bring legally into the ring, kind of like to
let them know that they're on the right track
and they're doing fine. Because like we talked
about, they get worried, they care so much, then
it starts to become where they look like they
want to die. And then going into the exercise,
you're like. we could very well enqueue this
because they look that way. So I did that. I
went, I had my plan. I was proud of myself because
I actually stayed on the plan and executed it.
And it was a one -day trial, but two trials in
one day. So four classes. So I went into my first
class and I had no dog, like she was stressy
and worried. And so I did all the things that
I had planned on doing and trying. And, um, she
pulled through the class. She, you know, it doesn't
matter like what she got, right? Like, I don't
care. Like she. She she came through with a really
nice score. But at the end of the day, it's always
like it felt like crap, like I hated it. She
looked like she wanted to die through it. The
thing with Ever is even when she looks like that,
the dog. is still precise because that's just
who she is she's still it's her training she's
well trained right so even though like she comes
out and either wins a class or gets a really
nice score like in my head I'm like that doesn't
feel good like that's not what I want that's
not the feeling I want what my dog don't look
like so I did do all of that stuff Um, did it
help? There were moments where I felt like it
helped, but what I did notice was because I kept
everything so calm, I was calm and I was like,
good girl. It actually like kept her arousal
down. I think it got her too low. I think it
got her too low. And so. We went into our next
class, which was actually utility. Open was first,
utility was second. And by the time I got in
that class and I was trying to effectively use
the same techniques that I had in my plan, she
actually like looked like she wanted to die.
And the first exercise was gloves. And she literally
went out to the glove and froze. like froze like
totally bailed and literally looked like she
wanted to melt in a puddle so I was just like
it's okay come on come on come on good girl it's
okay it's all right next exercise was articles
and like I said in the last episode we did like
this is our thing articles are like our nemesis
so of course we go to articles and I'm like And
literally right here, I'm like, I just want to
cheerlead her through. But I'm like, I'm not.
I'm just going to try to stick with my plan and
see if I can push her through. But it didn't
work. So I sent her to the article pile. She
went out to the article pile. Same thing like
she did in gloves. Like she stood over the pile
and like totally froze up and bailed. Could not
push through. So I was like, you know, I think
we're done today. Thanks, judge. Blah, blah,
blah. Left. Because I was like, I'm not going
to keep going. this obviously isn't working for
whatever reason, whether it's because we haven't
done it long enough, because literally, if anyone
remembers, I had just started this like four
days before the trial. Right. So I did want to
just make that point, right? Like, yeah, not
saying it will work or not, but just for context.
Yeah. Right. You'd only been working on that
for four days. So that was a big change. And
you have a. fairly long history of trialing in
a certain way yeah also too like she's used to
you being a certain way so now you're different
different is always going to be well different
right different totally and for a dog like her
she's going to be like a little bit confused
by that so I'm not saying one way or the other,
just like context, right? Yes, yeah, for sure.
Like just so everyone knows where we're at. And
in training, she's used to doing everything in
very high arousal. She is. And then her arousal
lowers in the ring. But like, yeah, she probably
it's possible, too, that like in lower arousal,
she just doesn't even know what to do. Right.
Because that's not exactly. So then I had I had
two more classes to do and I was like, all right,
well, I could either just pack up and go home
or I'm going to try to see if I can change my
handling and get her through. So I ended up.
going back to what i feel like i have to do to
get her through is i have to like i have to warm
her up get her barking spin twist like i have
to manufacture it a little bit and get her into
that higher arousal state and then like we go
blasting into the ring and this is again, like
what we just talked about, like, this is kind
of what she knows. Like, this is how I trial
her knowing she needs me to kind of carry her
through like this. And, and that's what I did.
Like, I was like looking at her, like, like.
Like I had some big secret, like we just won
the lottery and she really likes that. But I
have to work freaking so hard. Like I have to
work so hard through the entire class. Like I
feel like I'm just on the edge of the cliff.
Like if I let my guard down a second and just
go into like kind of let her do the work, then
she's going to drop on me. So we ended up getting
through the next two classes. But then I'm, like,
thinking about all this because then I'm like,
all right, some people have said to me, like,
you may have to do that with her. Like, you may
have to carry her through classes like that.
Yeah. But part of me is like, but, okay, I might
have to kick her up into a little bit higher
arousal just because of who she is. And maybe
that will prevent her from kind of going, getting
into her head about things. But then again, I'm
going, but she also needs to learn to push through
like we talk about. So then I'm thinking about
so like all the thinking I go home and I'm like,
all right, what's my plan going to be? And I
don't I don't I want her to. Like, so what I
see a lot in the ring is I see it in my transitions.
I see it in my setups. I see it in things like
my pivots. That's where I start to see where
she's like, oh God, oh God. Because the dog is
totally trained. I've done all the things to
motivate her in exercises so that like the exercises
are fun and she likes them. But it's the in -between
stuff where she starts to worry where that's
where I start to see it start to be like, oh,
God, transitioning to the next exercise. She
looks like she wants to die. That's where I feel
like I got to be like, I have to work so hard
to convince her to like, it's OK. You know, all
that work I have to do. And I'm like, that's
where I need her to be like, you need to bring
it to the table. Like, this is where my head's
going right now. You need to bring it to the
table a little bit. Like, that's not the transition
I want you to do. That's not the setup I want
you to do. So, like, I figured out a few things.
So, one is, and I felt this for a while, where
I feel like I have, when Zest struggles. Right.
Like I have to bribe him. So I'm like, I have
to flip it. Right. I have to teach. And that's
my fault. Right. Because he gets sucky. And then
I'm like, oh, God. And then I do something to
help him out, which is instinct. Right. It's
what most people would do. So. Yeah. So then
I'm like, OK, I have. No, no, no, no. You have
to give me except really good work. really good
effort and then I will reward that so I need
to flip it around right so instead of saying
come on give me a good transition because he
has a similar issue right right and then if he
doesn't go no no buddy this is a transition I
want and help him out and blah blah blah because
I know like if I bring the cookies out or a toy
out in that moment I'll get what I want. Right.
But in essence, I'm creating it. He's not giving
it to me. So I took him to the Lowe's the other
day and he worked exactly like in the ring. And
I was like, oh, perfect, because this is what
I need. I need him to be like he is in the ring.
Right. I said, OK, so I let's say, I don't know,
send him to the glove. Right. Oh, oh. you know,
really slow, trots back. And I took it and I
felt this overwhelming urge to get out my toy
or get out some cookies. And I'm like, nope,
I'm not doing it. But neither am I going to accept
this because it's not meeting my criteria of
what I want, right? And I've taught you what
I want. So it's not like you don't know. Now,
I'm not going to like beat you over the head
or be like, no, I'm just like not going to reward
it. Right. Because like if I said to the dog
down and the dog sat, I'm not going to go yes
and give him a cookie. Right. I'm going to go
silly dog stand. I said down. And then when you
down, I'll say good dog or whatever. Right. Right.
So it's the same concept. It's just a bigger
chain right now. And again, I know I fully train
this. He has a skill level, etc. Right. So whether
it's the distraction or whether it's he feels
pressure in that environment, regardless, it's
OK. We're just going to do it again. Right. So
no cookie, no toy. I did try to charge him up
a little bit at the beginning. So bounce, bounce
again. And he's like, OK, can kind of bounce.
I'm like, no. bounced like for real. And I just
stayed with it until he started bouncing like
a lunatic. So again, even there, there was like
this hesitation and I felt myself going to cave.
Right. And I'm like, no, I'm just going to be
super patient. Right. Come on. So until he's
bouncing freely. Because at the beginning he's
bouncing because I told him to. It's a command.
But dude, when we train, you bounce freely all
the time. By freely, I mean, you're just, yeah,
I'm bouncing. Right. Because you want to. So
I'm just going to wait you out. Right. And then
all of a sudden he turns a corner and he starts
hopping like freely. And I'm like, good boy.
Now let's try to do the glove. Right. Let's pivot.
Send. He runs out. He starts to run back before
he can truck because now you gave me three quarters.
Really good effort. I'm like, yes. So now you
said a really good comparison. This is the work
I will reward when you give me that work. I will
give you a really good reward for that. If you
give me the other work, I'm not going to get
upset with you, but we're going to try it. a
few more times until you get it. So I kind of
did that with him. And then, um, I went to a
match on Saturday and same kind of similar thing,
like a little better than at the store, but you
know, I always get the same at a match, but usually
I always go and help him. And I'm like, nope,
we're going to do the same thing. you're going
to give me effort and I'm just going to be really
patient. I don't care if we only do one exercise
out of four runs. I don't care. Like, but we're
going to do it over a few times until you give
me what I want, or at least give me effort, right?
Like more effort. And then we're going to have
a party with that. And then by the time, and
so that, so I had some really nice pieces. I
felt like he was starting to have some understanding.
And then Sunday I went to a match and he worked
lights, lights out. Now I'm not saying it's going
to work at a show or whatever, but I do remember
that this is what I did a few months before the
NOC. Cause I would go to like. you know, like
stores in front of the Walmart, et cetera, et
cetera. And he will get really flat, like in
the ring. Now, whether it's distraction, whether
it's whatever the case, right? And I remember
back then what I did was I would be like, oh,
silly dog, that's not how you do that exercise.
Let's try again. And I'd have to do some exercises
like three or four times and then he would run
and I'd be like, yes, woo -hoo. huge like shenanigans
and he figured it out right and it carried over
then somewhere along the line more than likely
my fault right probably somewhere he got a little
sucky I went and covered up for it in my training
yep and so on so anyway that so the other thing
I'm doing is like kind of in a similar vein but
i'm doing this like at home because i do have
a similar issue with like transitions pivot stuff
like that yeah and again usually i'm like come
on let's go and if he i'm like all right that's
the best you can do all right good job no i'm
like dude no i want you slamming into me and
hopping like a lunatic because you know if i
get less maybe i'll get what i want right but
again i'm not gonna bribe you into it So we're
just in my garage and I'm like, let's go. That's
my transition cue. And he's like, but I'm like,
oh, silly dog. That's not a transition. Let's
try that again. Let's go. Right. And I'll sidestep.
And then when he gives me a lot of energy, then
I would go, that's what I want. Yeah, exactly.
And then I'm. also mixing in and this is like
where I'm a little bit weak where I tend I still
think I reward too much um where then he'll give
me that and I'll go yes and then I'll reward
him so now I don't reward it every time I'll
do wow so sometimes I just praise you and you
jump up and down Sometimes I'm just like, that
was really good. I love that. Sometimes I'm like,
super buddy. We move a little bit. Then I go,
yes. Then I actually feed you or, or I go toy
and we do the toy so that you're not actually
getting a food or toy reinforcer every time.
And at first he was constantly like, wait, what?
Where's the food? Wait, what? Where's the toy?
Wait, what? And I'm like, no, no, you're good.
And he's like, well, thanks. But looking around
like, where's the toy? I'm like, nope, you're
not getting it. Come here. Jump up and down.
And it was hard because we were neither of us
were comfortable with it. Right. And so, again,
I feel that temptation to just go fuck it and
give him the food. Right. And I'm like, no, no,
no, no. Like, I have to. kind of and it's that
piece is starting to get better and better and
better like every day where and I think part
of it is where we feel like oh they're looking
for it like oh they're no but yeah they are because
that's I've created that expectation. Yes. It's
not like he can't do it without it. He's confused.
So I have to be patient and work through the
confusion. And now he's starting to understand.
Oh, sometimes we just jump up and down. Sometimes
we do that. I'm not saying it's fully there,
but. The key here is multiple, many, many times
within sessions and from session to session,
I could feel myself going, this isn't working.
I'm just going to do what I've always done. And
then I have to stop myself and go, wait, is it
not working? I can't really say that yet because
I need more time. Exactly. Exactly. Definitely.
Yeah. And I, I'm doing the same thing and what
I'm doing with my, um, what I'm doing right now,
what the new thing is the new flavor of the week
this week is I'm doing a ton of, I'm just calling
it doodling. So what was really interesting was
I went to go set up ever to go do articles. the
week after we got back, I'm like by myself in
my building. Like there's no one there. There's
no, there's no like any form of like outside
pressure that would make her feel like, oh God,
we're doing like the formal thing. I just set
her up. I marked her article pile and she literally
like. tried to climb up my body. Like she couldn't
even sit there. So I'm like, all right, well,
there's definitely emotional baggage attached
to this exercise. So talking to somebody else
who I train with, I was hashing this out and
she's familiar with some of this stuff that's
going on, whatever. And she said, why don't you
right now separate? You're like, you work on
your transitions and your setups, like the doodling
part of it, where she has to do those pieces
correctly. Like she has to bring it to the table
and don't even just, don't even do the exercise,
like set all your crap up, do your ring entrance,
do your transition, do your setup. And she has
to do it. And I did that by myself in my building,
nobody there. And I got sucky. Like I got trial
-y, crappy shit I get, which was great because
then I worked on it. So when she didn't transition,
like she got all like, oh, I can barely stay
with you and heal position through this fucking
transition. I go, and I have to watch myself
because I get annoyed. So I had to really watch
my emotional state. Yeah, and that's a huge point,
right? Because it's so important for us to be
mindful. It is. And she's emotions moment by
moment. So we can manage them because we can't
manage them if we're not aware. If we're aware,
it's OK to have those emotions. We are human.
Right. But we must be aware and manage them.
And that's the key. Right. Really the key. Because
I had that dog like she. Yeah. So I'm just like,
oh, I go, no, no, no. That's not a transition.
I got. So I take her by the collar, which she's
like. oh God, I have to watch this too. But I
have to be like, this is a transition. Let's
go or whatever my word is I use, which is actually
with me. And she's like, oh, but I go with me
until she actually willingly comes on the collar.
Like I'm putting that in and she understands
that. So once she does that, I go, oh, wow, look
at you. You did it. Let's go try it again. Dude,
this took like. This took like three, four reps
before I got a with me. But once she did it and
was ears up like, OK, I'm coming. That's when
I marked it like what you just talked about.
But it I've got all like I'm so I'm I'm working
on all this in my pit. I get it in my pivots.
I don't know what it is. Like I pivot. She pivots
with me. And then as I'm coming to the end of
the pivot. She looks like she wants to die. Well,
it probably starts before the pivot because for
a pivot, they're sitting there for a long period
of time and they get really flat. I've been doing
this game that sometimes I'm like, what is wrong
with you? So like I do this workshop, like I'm
putting together this workshop, right? A few
weeks ago. And so I'm like, oh, so. The workshop
is like things you can do to increase arousal.
Right. Because we're always talking about managing
arousal, whatever. So I'm like, OK, so I put
and then I'm like thinking in my head, OK, what
can we like? All right. This technique, that
technique that and then I'm like, all right,
the ready, steady game. And I go in my garage
to film it. Do you think I've done this with
Zesty? No. So I'm doing it with him and I'm like,
oh, my God, he loves this game. It's working
amazing. What is wrong with you? Right. So it's
that concept that you talk about is the dopamine
is released in anticipation of something exciting.
Right. Not it's like in anticipation of. Right.
So it's the whole ready, steady. one two three
and then an explosion right like yes and then
I'm like tossing cookies or chase it go or I
have the cookie I'm like is it gonna go left
or right or what where's it going this way that
way and he's like and then I finally toss a cookie
and then he gets a cookie and then I'm like get
back in here now it's back to stillness right
so I'm like ready two three, and then explosion.
So I do that over and over and he starts to get
crazy. Right. So then I'm like, okay, I can transition
that to doing that without a verbal. So I'm just
looking at him. I'm saying it in my head. Ready?
Two, three, right. So this doesn't all happen
in five minutes, like session after session.
Right. So now I can look at him, say it in my
head. And he's like, and then an explosion. Right.
So I'm like, OK, now I can start bringing this
into my pivot. So now instead of him sitting
there going, oh, God, oh, God. And then I do
the pivot and he's like, I'm coming. Right. I'm
like, and then I get like, and then I explode
into the pivot. So it's not completely finished,
but it's definitely like, I can see it working.
So I'm doing that, like heading into my transition.
I'm doing it like on pivots. I'm doing it wherever
I feel like. the exercise might be flat so what
I did is like um he doesn't like explode into
the article so I'm taking out the pivot I'm just
sitting him and I'm like ready two three and
he's like and I'm like fine and he's like running
out and now that's like starting to look way
better um So anyway, so I'm incorporating. But
again, I'm like, I'm not feeding. I'm not bribing
it. Right. Like very quickly, I started reducing
the food and I would do the pivot. And then I'd
go, wow. And wow, meaning you may not get food.
You may not get a toy. Maybe you will. Maybe
you won't. Maybe I'm just going to praise you.
Maybe we're just going to jump up and down. Right.
So immediate, cause I'm like, I'm not good. If
I immediately now take this game and every single
time pay it, well, what's going to happen when
I don't pay it? Exactly. I'm going to be screwed.
So immediately I'm moving away and same with
my transitions, right? Like I do the game, then
we explode into the transition and I'm varying
what's going to happen. And, um, so that again,
don't know. I won't know for a couple of weeks.
I don't think my next show is for like another
couple of weeks. If, or how any of this is gonna
transfer, but so far there, there are definite
areas where in the past, even just training with
my training partners, like his articles have
been like meh, you know? And like today he like
flew out, went boom, boom, grabbed it flying
back. And I'm like, yes. Yeah. And I did make
a big deal about that. And I did pay it because
it was first rep. Yeah. Lots of effort. Yeah.
So I think it's like changing that mindset of
like getting sucked into like. Paying them to
get what we want versus give me what I want,
then I am going to reward you for doing it. Right.
Exactly. Exactly. That's the mindset for sure.
Because otherwise we're inadvertently teaching
them if it gets hard or if. whatever's going
on and you act like this, then I will bail you
out. Right. And then when we can't bail them
out, well, then we're stuck and they're stuck.
Right. And then we have kind of a problem. So
we, but we can't take all reinforcement away,
you know? So I think it's just shifting the responsibility.
Like I'll even, I'll even say like, I've trained
in my training partner's training building with
him or with my other two training partners and
chained a few exercises and done transitions.
And he's given me meh transitions. And I'm like,
come on, come on. And like, I'm like, I guess
he can't just can't give me more. And I've accepted
it. Well, then I certainly can't expect to get
more than that in the ring. You know, so now
I'm just like, all right, buddy, let's try that
again. Like, I'm not like, no, you're not. I'm
just like, well, let's try it again. Right. I
need a little bit more. And I think our dogs
are very intelligent. All of our animals, like
dogs, period, are incredibly intelligent. And
they can learn concepts as long as we're consistent.
Right. Um, so I do believe, cause I know I did
it with zeal, you know, like I had to shift it
around and it worked and he totally understood
it. And he changed, like he became, he gained
confidence, even though he was not innately confident,
he became confident. Like, would he ever be as
confident as Zayna? No, but he became confident
enough. Yeah. To do really hard work at the highest,
highest level under the toughest conditions.
Right. So it's possible. It's just like, you
know, it's just always like it's this process
of getting to that point. Because, you know,
our dogs change, too. Like they may look one
way at one or two years old and a little different
at three, four. And so it's that. It's so hard
because it's just this, it's always fluid. It
is. It is. It is. And I don't know, you know,
I mean, this is like, to me, like, you know,
it's easy. I don't know. It's hard to say what
people will say about this. kind of topic but
you know I'm a lot of people have like a method
well if the dog's not doing it then this is what
you do but I I just feel like it's more than
that like the training aspect of it right like
trying to figure out how to get like what we're
looking for in the ring in a way for that particular
dog you know because that's the other thing is
like Ever's not every dog. Zesty's not every
dog. Like you can't just use this method to train
that piece. Do you know what I'm talking about?
No, you can't. It's impossible because it's just
like trying to teach every child the same way.
Right? Right. It's just not. It's like me trying
to teach all my students the same way. It's impossible.
They're all different. And I have this similar
struggle with students. Like, right. Like I'll
have all these different students and I'm trying
to present the material and all these 18 different
ways. And then like, like they, sometimes they're
looking at me and I'm looking at them and I'm
like, they have no fucking idea what I just said.
Like, I'm trying to, I'm like, okay, let me explain
it this way. And I, I'm looking at her and I'm
like, she still doesn't get it. I'm like, okay,
let me try the thorough. And I'm like, she still
doesn't get it. Right? Like, and that's not a
reflection of me, nor is it a reflection of her.
It's just a reflection of maybe at that moment
in time, maybe that time of day, maybe, you know,
she had other things on her mind. Maybe she's
upset about something. Maybe I think I'm saying
it one way and I'm not at all. things like happening
at the same time. Right. And it's the same thing
with dogs. It's like, and they don't even speak
our language. Right. So they don't speak our
language. They're all very different. They change
moment by moment. They perceive the world differently
than we do as humans. Right. Like there's so
it's so complex, you know, and so. I absolutely
don't. I don't think it's possible for any method
to work for every dog. Like, I just don't see
it. Like, I don't believe it's possible. Right.
And to be fair to the dog, because we're also
trying to be fair. And we're also, you know,
like trying to be kind and like all these other
things like. It's it's very complicated. And
and then we also have to remember, like, what
are we what the stuff we're asking them to do
is so completely and utterly ridiculous. Like
it makes zero sense to an animal like none, like
none. Like when I hike with my dogs, the only
thing they do that's remotely resembles anything
is sniffing. Right. Like maybe that's remotely
similar to send articles. Although I'm sure if
they could tell you, they would be like, dude,
it is absolutely nothing like what we do in real
life. You know? So same as agility. Like what's
with the contact? Like my dogs don't like run
over a tree and then stop. Like what? Like any
sport, like. We have to be empathetic and go,
what we are asking them to do is so ridiculous.
So, of course, it's hard because it makes no
freaking sense whatsoever from the animal's point
of view. Right. Agree. Agree. It's tough. It's
really, really complicated. And I think the whole
thing is you have to think about like, you know,
I've been thinking so much about reinforcement.
Right. Because it's kind of like a huge challenge.
And like my one training partner, like not a
hundred percent, but a greater percentage of
her training is pattern training and a lower
reinforcement rate. And our dog's working like
lights out, you know? Yeah. So it's making me
think a lot. Like I. Try to be super mindful
of like weaning, you know, lessening food as
quickly as possible, making behavior self -reinforcing,
variable reinforcement, on and on and on. Watch
myself next to her and I am like the cookie monster.
Like I am like drowning my dog in cookies. So,
you know, it's a good perspective for me to have
because it's kind of like, huh. Like how much
do I, and I think I wrote a little blog on that,
like having had Peggy on here for the Seeing
Eye interview, like, yes, you know, she talked
about those dogs working, doing this incredibly
complex task. For praise in essence, and for
the reinforcer of getting to move out in the
environment, because that's inherently self -reinforcing.
Right. And it's like, holy Hannah, like, okay,
I get it. Some of it is apples and oranges, but
dog training is dog training. Like, you know,
it's, it's really making me think about like
patterns about, you know, using praise more,
you know? Yeah. Using my food even less. Like,
just really stop going on autopilot as a trainer
and really push, try to push my boundaries a
little bit more and see how much more can I get
for less. Right. You know, and where is that
balance, right? Like, there's always a balance
because you can never just pattern train. You
can never just, like, there has to be. And that
balance is going to be different for every dog.
And it's going to be different throughout the
dog's lifetime, right? Like puppy, adult, you
know. Exactly. So it's something that I think
you have to be revisiting constantly or evaluating.
I don't know what the right word is, but. Well,
I think it's something like I, you know, I'm
being way more mindful now with Salty, you know,
because I want to start that early. Like, I think
I created a lot of that with Ever, you know,
especially and Stormy too a little bit. Not as
much, but, you know, I wasn't as mindful. as
when and where and how I'm giving reinforcers,
right? I just, I think it could get way better,
like you just said. So that's what I'm doing
with Celtic. I think the tricky thing is like,
yes, we can create all the behaviors we want
the way we want them using a high reinforcement
rate. The problem is always getting that in competition.
that's the sticking point right that's where
like most of my students they can train the exercises
you know they can look really good and then it's
like you go the barrier of entry to the ring
is it's like the grand canyon right between having
taught the exercises and then getting a decent,
I'm not even saying great, like a decent, and
by decent, I don't mean score placement. I mean
like where, you know, we're feeling like, oh,
my dog looked comfortable. My dog looked, dare
I say, you know, happy or relaxed or, you know,
because the reality, and this is where I think
there's a big disconnect in training too, right?
Like it's great to say, We should be doing all
these things. We should never, the dog should
never make mistakes. The dog should this, we
should never tell them they're wrong. This, that,
and the other thing. That's all great. But like,
then we have to get them in the ring. And the
reality is, and this is what I think is a problem.
Like people are not, maybe this is a theory I
have. I could be dead wrong. I think people grossly
underestimate. the reality of the ring is freaking
hard on them. Competition is hard. Like it's
meant to be hard. Like I go all the way back
to field work, right? Like. It's ludicrous. Like
if you went duck hunting, you sit in a blind,
the duck falls, your dog goes and gets it. You
don't give a shit how the dog gets it. Just go
get the damn duck and bring it back so I don't
have to go in the water in the middle of winter,
right? You do a hunt test or a field trial. It
is completely artificial. Go in a perfectly straight
line. Don't do this. Don't do that. And I'm going
to put all these things in the way to throw you
off and blah, blah, blah. It is completely and
utterly artificial. All right. That's why it's
a test. And that's why it's a competition. And
it's hard. And every dog can't do it. And it
is stressful. So for to. Kind of have the philosophy
that I'm going to train my dog a certain way
because I don't want my dog to be it to be hard
or stressful or any in any way, shape or form
in training and then put them in the ring. It's
actually grossly unfair. Yeah, for sure. Because
your dog's not prepared. Right. You know, and
then to go, well, I have no idea what happened,
blah, blah, blah, et cetera, et cetera. It's
like we are not being realistic and honest and
fair. Right. Like we have to say as a whole,
as a community, no, this is really hard. And
the hard part is not teaching your dog the exercises
like that's a cakewalk. That's a cakewalk. Yeah.
You know. And we have to teach our dogs how to
handle adversity and how to push when it's hard
because that's what they have to do in the ring.
Yeah, exactly. And that's where it gets tricky
because that's where, you know. And that's where
I'm at with a lot of my students. But I, you
know, I count myself very blessed because they're
very open minded and very flexible because I'm
really saying to them, don't make it a little
harder. You know, dog makes a mistake. Everybody
freaks out on panics and training. It's broken.
No, your articles are not broken. No, that. Exercise
is not broken. Know your contacts aren't permanently
broken. Right. Like the dog made a mistake. Let's
teach the dog how to work through this mistake.
Let's sometimes let's let the dog figure it out.
Right. And let them muddle muddle through it.
And then let's try it again. And what I find
is when we do it again, oh, look, the dog does
it. And the dog figured it out on their own.
You know, and those are the kind of things that
like we have to put that in place. And we have
to sometimes say to the dog, like with Ceci,
like, buddy, I'm like that you have to give me
a little more. Right. You know. And I'm not,
I can't, sorry, but I can't pull out a cookie
for you to do this. Like you, come on, buddy.
Dig, I know you can do it. Come on, you can do
it. And then he does it. See, you did it. And
that's the word, you know, the dig. I want them
to dig. I want her to dig when it gets hard.
And that's where, like we talk about, it's so
hard because we want to go into help mode, but
we can't. And it feels yucky and messy. I can't,
I hate it. And like rep, it might take two, three
times before then she actually brings it on her
own. And that's when I can reward her, you know?
And the thing is, it's so interesting to me because
like in every sport, right? Like I'm a sports.
fanatic because I've competed in sports and now
there are sports that I have zero interest in
but like sometimes I'll watch it because of the
lessons right like and I feel like those human
lessons apply to the animals as well right like
every like the olympics like obsessed right with
the drama because it's relevant to what we do
okay like so the athletes will across the board
tell you it's hard it's a struggle they have
to do mental management they have to learn grit
like they they will tell you like oh my god there
was this great thing this michaela she just won
olympic gold in slalom after having her last
Olympics where it all went south, it was all
a disaster. Anyway, like she was saying how,
regardless of whether things go well or not,
even when things go really well, it was a struggle
to get that. Right. And they got there because
of the struggle. They never say, I got here and
it's been smooth sailing the whole way. They
don't come out and go, I've always won everything.
I've never lost. And, you know, it's just like,
yeah, I don't know. It's just not that hard for
me. You never hear them say that. Right. And
the best of the best will tell stories of struggle
and how they learned to become. strong and resilient
right right and like i think it's the same like
we're asking our dogs to do hard things so now
some people say well i don't care if my dog doesn't
do great it just has to qualify well great it's
still hard right so your dog maybe your dog doesn't
need as much resilience as my dog but your dog
still needs resilience yeah for sure you know
so Um, yeah, so that, so it's like, we really
need to think about, you know, putting some resilience
into their training, which like a lot, like I,
like I said, like, um, we should, we should do
a whole episode on it. Cause like, yeah, we have
to, we have to do a whole episode on that. Cause
like, I realized I could go down like, and like
a whole rabbit hole right now. Because I'm really
focusing on that. Yeah, me too. With my own dogs,
but with my students. And it's having some really
astounding, in a positive way, results. Yeah.
Which certain of the things, like proofing, right?
the old version of proofing is you set your dog
up you make it really hard so your dog fails
you tell your dog that's wrong right but the
way we do it now is we make things hard and we
let the dog kind of figure it out if they get
stuck we help them just a little bit but it's
like come on dog you can do it Yeah. And then
they come out the other side and it really builds
confidence. So that kind of stuff we've been
doing, but I'm doing like things at a way younger
age now. In the learning phase, like, yeah, we've
been changing a lot of things. Yeah. So, yeah,
we should do a whole episode on that. Yeah. Could
probably be more than one episode. Yeah. But.
Yeah, so I don't know. What's the take home?
That it's hard. It's hard. It's fucking hard.
Yeah, but I mean, I think that's fair. Like,
because I think everybody always feels like they're
failing because we're always comparing ourselves
to this false image or this false, like, idea
that, like, we should be able to or, you know.
Right. And that it takes, you have to be flexible
and you have to be willing to experiment. Yeah.
And change things and try things. Definitely.
Try and fail and try and fail and try and fail.
That's the bottom line. That's what it is. That's
what it is. Yeah. and try different things right
because different things work for different dogs
and I've sometimes tried stuff with a dog that
didn't work and three years later I tried it
again all of a sudden it works and I'm like oh
that's weird yeah right um yeah and yeah definitely
all right well we'll keep you guys posted on
whether this stuff any of it worked or didn't
work And helps you. And the next weeks and months
of us endlessly trying to get what we need in
the ring. The happy dog in the ring. Yep. And
then there's Zaina. Happy birthday, Zaina. Zaina's
10 today. Aw, happy birthday, you little whippersnapper.
And no, I didn't do anything special because
she thinks every day is her birthday. That's
right. We'll just let her keep it. She's like,
what? Every day is my birthday. Aw. She's so
naughty. She's so funny. I let her bark at me
in training today a whole lot. There you go.
That made her happy. There you go. Perfect. that's
perfect all right um okay okay the next episode
bye everybody bye thanks