WEBVTT 00:00:10.990 --> 00:00:13.150 Hi, everybody. Welcome to the Canine Connection 00:00:13.150 --> 00:00:17.269 podcast. Today, Lori and I are going to follow 00:00:17.269 --> 00:00:20.510 up a little bit on the last podcast where we 00:00:20.510 --> 00:00:24.210 talked about how incredibly challenging it is 00:00:24.210 --> 00:00:28.570 to get the dog in the ring that we would like 00:00:28.570 --> 00:00:31.949 to have. I guess more specifically, we're talking 00:00:31.949 --> 00:00:36.359 about Zesty and Ever and about... thing that 00:00:36.359 --> 00:00:38.979 we're going to try and change some things, change 00:00:38.979 --> 00:00:41.560 our perspective on things, do some things differently 00:00:41.560 --> 00:00:45.659 and so on. So I think it's been, I want to say 00:00:45.659 --> 00:00:48.380 maybe a week and a half, give or take since then. 00:00:48.520 --> 00:00:53.179 Yeah. And Lori said she's been doing a lot and 00:00:53.179 --> 00:00:56.140 thinking a lot and she did have one show. So 00:00:56.140 --> 00:00:58.520 she's going to tell us all about that. And then 00:00:58.520 --> 00:01:00.700 we're just going to see where this leads us because 00:01:00.700 --> 00:01:07.420 we don't have a plan. Yeah. um so the last time 00:01:07.420 --> 00:01:11.780 we talked we had talked about um a bunch about 00:01:11.780 --> 00:01:15.180 you know the dogs in their arousal state like 00:01:15.180 --> 00:01:17.780 in training we can definitely get them up you 00:01:17.780 --> 00:01:19.980 know as soon as we pull the cookie out we can 00:01:19.980 --> 00:01:23.260 get them to look flashy and exciting and in the 00:01:23.260 --> 00:01:26.700 in the game um but that's not necessarily what 00:01:26.700 --> 00:01:28.760 we get in the trial ring like we talked about 00:01:28.760 --> 00:01:32.250 so But it's easy to do that the second, you know, 00:01:32.269 --> 00:01:34.409 it's easy to just pull a cookie out or play the 00:01:34.409 --> 00:01:36.469 game. And that's that's going to create that. 00:01:36.569 --> 00:01:40.170 So I had come up with a couple of things last 00:01:40.170 --> 00:01:41.890 time we talked about, like where I was just going 00:01:41.890 --> 00:01:48.069 to do some more of like like calming praise to 00:01:48.069 --> 00:01:53.189 her in the ring, like good girl with. And I had 00:01:53.189 --> 00:01:55.989 talked about using that wow word, which is kind 00:01:55.989 --> 00:01:58.819 of like. You know, sometimes we feed that, sometimes 00:01:58.819 --> 00:02:01.340 we don't, but it's just another cue that we can 00:02:01.340 --> 00:02:03.560 bring legally into the ring, kind of like to 00:02:03.560 --> 00:02:05.680 let them know that they're on the right track 00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:08.400 and they're doing fine. Because like we talked 00:02:08.400 --> 00:02:11.900 about, they get worried, they care so much, then 00:02:11.900 --> 00:02:15.460 it starts to become where they look like they 00:02:15.460 --> 00:02:18.240 want to die. And then going into the exercise, 00:02:18.300 --> 00:02:21.719 you're like. we could very well enqueue this 00:02:21.719 --> 00:02:25.340 because they look that way. So I did that. I 00:02:25.340 --> 00:02:30.419 went, I had my plan. I was proud of myself because 00:02:30.419 --> 00:02:32.939 I actually stayed on the plan and executed it. 00:02:33.560 --> 00:02:38.460 And it was a one -day trial, but two trials in 00:02:38.460 --> 00:02:43.860 one day. So four classes. So I went into my first 00:02:43.860 --> 00:02:51.960 class and I had no dog, like she was stressy 00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:57.800 and worried. And so I did all the things that 00:02:57.800 --> 00:03:02.819 I had planned on doing and trying. And, um, she 00:03:02.819 --> 00:03:08.020 pulled through the class. She, you know, it doesn't 00:03:08.020 --> 00:03:10.719 matter like what she got, right? Like, I don't 00:03:10.719 --> 00:03:14.219 care. Like she. She she came through with a really 00:03:14.219 --> 00:03:16.639 nice score. But at the end of the day, it's always 00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:19.759 like it felt like crap, like I hated it. She 00:03:19.759 --> 00:03:21.919 looked like she wanted to die through it. The 00:03:21.919 --> 00:03:25.379 thing with Ever is even when she looks like that, 00:03:25.479 --> 00:03:28.699 the dog. is still precise because that's just 00:03:28.699 --> 00:03:31.340 who she is she's still it's her training she's 00:03:31.340 --> 00:03:35.199 well trained right so even though like she comes 00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:37.159 out and either wins a class or gets a really 00:03:37.159 --> 00:03:41.460 nice score like in my head I'm like that doesn't 00:03:41.460 --> 00:03:43.819 feel good like that's not what I want that's 00:03:43.819 --> 00:03:46.120 not the feeling I want what my dog don't look 00:03:46.120 --> 00:03:51.810 like so I did do all of that stuff Um, did it 00:03:51.810 --> 00:03:54.590 help? There were moments where I felt like it 00:03:54.590 --> 00:04:00.110 helped, but what I did notice was because I kept 00:04:00.110 --> 00:04:03.110 everything so calm, I was calm and I was like, 00:04:03.150 --> 00:04:07.990 good girl. It actually like kept her arousal 00:04:07.990 --> 00:04:12.849 down. I think it got her too low. I think it 00:04:12.849 --> 00:04:18.730 got her too low. And so. We went into our next 00:04:18.730 --> 00:04:21.709 class, which was actually utility. Open was first, 00:04:21.790 --> 00:04:24.790 utility was second. And by the time I got in 00:04:24.790 --> 00:04:27.370 that class and I was trying to effectively use 00:04:27.370 --> 00:04:32.050 the same techniques that I had in my plan, she 00:04:32.050 --> 00:04:35.170 actually like looked like she wanted to die. 00:04:35.209 --> 00:04:38.790 And the first exercise was gloves. And she literally 00:04:38.790 --> 00:04:45.709 went out to the glove and froze. like froze like 00:04:45.709 --> 00:04:50.410 totally bailed and literally looked like she 00:04:50.410 --> 00:04:53.050 wanted to melt in a puddle so I was just like 00:04:53.050 --> 00:04:55.629 it's okay come on come on come on good girl it's 00:04:55.629 --> 00:04:58.589 okay it's all right next exercise was articles 00:04:58.589 --> 00:05:01.870 and like I said in the last episode we did like 00:05:01.870 --> 00:05:05.810 this is our thing articles are like our nemesis 00:05:05.810 --> 00:05:10.790 so of course we go to articles and I'm like And 00:05:10.790 --> 00:05:13.250 literally right here, I'm like, I just want to 00:05:13.250 --> 00:05:14.889 cheerlead her through. But I'm like, I'm not. 00:05:14.949 --> 00:05:16.949 I'm just going to try to stick with my plan and 00:05:16.949 --> 00:05:20.449 see if I can push her through. But it didn't 00:05:20.449 --> 00:05:23.610 work. So I sent her to the article pile. She 00:05:23.610 --> 00:05:25.189 went out to the article pile. Same thing like 00:05:25.189 --> 00:05:27.209 she did in gloves. Like she stood over the pile 00:05:27.209 --> 00:05:30.870 and like totally froze up and bailed. Could not 00:05:30.870 --> 00:05:35.029 push through. So I was like, you know, I think 00:05:35.029 --> 00:05:36.670 we're done today. Thanks, judge. Blah, blah, 00:05:36.689 --> 00:05:38.449 blah. Left. Because I was like, I'm not going 00:05:38.449 --> 00:05:42.540 to keep going. this obviously isn't working for 00:05:42.540 --> 00:05:45.100 whatever reason, whether it's because we haven't 00:05:45.100 --> 00:05:47.699 done it long enough, because literally, if anyone 00:05:47.699 --> 00:05:50.100 remembers, I had just started this like four 00:05:50.100 --> 00:05:53.199 days before the trial. Right. So I did want to 00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:56.120 just make that point, right? Like, yeah, not 00:05:56.120 --> 00:05:59.259 saying it will work or not, but just for context. 00:05:59.779 --> 00:06:01.980 Yeah. Right. You'd only been working on that 00:06:01.980 --> 00:06:04.360 for four days. So that was a big change. And 00:06:04.360 --> 00:06:07.000 you have a. fairly long history of trialing in 00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:11.399 a certain way yeah also too like she's used to 00:06:11.399 --> 00:06:15.779 you being a certain way so now you're different 00:06:15.779 --> 00:06:18.800 different is always going to be well different 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:21.740 right different totally and for a dog like her 00:06:21.740 --> 00:06:24.920 she's going to be like a little bit confused 00:06:24.920 --> 00:06:28.250 by that so I'm not saying one way or the other, 00:06:28.290 --> 00:06:31.910 just like context, right? Yes, yeah, for sure. 00:06:32.089 --> 00:06:34.350 Like just so everyone knows where we're at. And 00:06:34.350 --> 00:06:38.370 in training, she's used to doing everything in 00:06:38.370 --> 00:06:43.870 very high arousal. She is. And then her arousal 00:06:43.870 --> 00:06:48.660 lowers in the ring. But like, yeah, she probably 00:06:48.660 --> 00:06:51.819 it's possible, too, that like in lower arousal, 00:06:51.819 --> 00:06:53.899 she just doesn't even know what to do. Right. 00:06:54.000 --> 00:07:01.540 Because that's not exactly. So then I had I had 00:07:01.540 --> 00:07:05.439 two more classes to do and I was like, all right, 00:07:05.480 --> 00:07:07.500 well, I could either just pack up and go home 00:07:07.500 --> 00:07:10.480 or I'm going to try to see if I can change my 00:07:10.480 --> 00:07:15.100 handling and get her through. So I ended up. 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:22.939 going back to what i feel like i have to do to 00:07:22.939 --> 00:07:27.199 get her through is i have to like i have to warm 00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:30.860 her up get her barking spin twist like i have 00:07:30.860 --> 00:07:33.300 to manufacture it a little bit and get her into 00:07:33.300 --> 00:07:36.639 that higher arousal state and then like we go 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:41.339 blasting into the ring and this is again, like 00:07:41.339 --> 00:07:42.779 what we just talked about, like, this is kind 00:07:42.779 --> 00:07:45.579 of what she knows. Like, this is how I trial 00:07:45.579 --> 00:07:48.939 her knowing she needs me to kind of carry her 00:07:48.939 --> 00:07:52.579 through like this. And, and that's what I did. 00:07:52.620 --> 00:07:55.000 Like, I was like looking at her, like, like. 00:07:55.579 --> 00:07:57.980 Like I had some big secret, like we just won 00:07:57.980 --> 00:08:00.519 the lottery and she really likes that. But I 00:08:00.519 --> 00:08:03.899 have to work freaking so hard. Like I have to 00:08:03.899 --> 00:08:07.240 work so hard through the entire class. Like I 00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:09.199 feel like I'm just on the edge of the cliff. 00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:12.139 Like if I let my guard down a second and just 00:08:12.139 --> 00:08:16.100 go into like kind of let her do the work, then 00:08:16.100 --> 00:08:21.120 she's going to drop on me. So we ended up getting 00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:25.879 through the next two classes. But then I'm, like, 00:08:25.879 --> 00:08:28.000 thinking about all this because then I'm like, 00:08:28.259 --> 00:08:31.360 all right, some people have said to me, like, 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:34.860 you may have to do that with her. Like, you may 00:08:34.860 --> 00:08:38.759 have to carry her through classes like that. 00:08:38.779 --> 00:08:44.139 Yeah. But part of me is like, but, okay, I might 00:08:44.139 --> 00:08:46.019 have to kick her up into a little bit higher 00:08:46.019 --> 00:08:48.600 arousal just because of who she is. And maybe 00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:51.379 that will prevent her from kind of going, getting 00:08:51.379 --> 00:08:54.980 into her head about things. But then again, I'm 00:08:54.980 --> 00:08:59.759 going, but she also needs to learn to push through 00:08:59.759 --> 00:09:06.200 like we talk about. So then I'm thinking about 00:09:06.200 --> 00:09:13.399 so like all the thinking I go home and I'm like, 00:09:13.539 --> 00:09:18.840 all right, what's my plan going to be? And I 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:23.799 don't I don't I want her to. Like, so what I 00:09:23.799 --> 00:09:27.480 see a lot in the ring is I see it in my transitions. 00:09:28.100 --> 00:09:31.960 I see it in my setups. I see it in things like 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:35.759 my pivots. That's where I start to see where 00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:40.139 she's like, oh God, oh God. Because the dog is 00:09:40.139 --> 00:09:46.019 totally trained. I've done all the things to 00:09:46.019 --> 00:09:49.340 motivate her in exercises so that like the exercises 00:09:49.340 --> 00:09:54.269 are fun and she likes them. But it's the in -between 00:09:54.269 --> 00:09:58.029 stuff where she starts to worry where that's 00:09:58.029 --> 00:10:00.110 where I start to see it start to be like, oh, 00:10:00.129 --> 00:10:03.009 God, transitioning to the next exercise. She 00:10:03.009 --> 00:10:05.409 looks like she wants to die. That's where I feel 00:10:05.409 --> 00:10:08.730 like I got to be like, I have to work so hard 00:10:08.730 --> 00:10:11.629 to convince her to like, it's OK. You know, all 00:10:11.629 --> 00:10:14.590 that work I have to do. And I'm like, that's 00:10:14.590 --> 00:10:17.470 where I need her to be like, you need to bring 00:10:17.470 --> 00:10:20.309 it to the table. Like, this is where my head's 00:10:20.309 --> 00:10:23.350 going right now. You need to bring it to the 00:10:23.350 --> 00:10:26.769 table a little bit. Like, that's not the transition 00:10:26.769 --> 00:10:30.789 I want you to do. That's not the setup I want 00:10:30.789 --> 00:10:38.289 you to do. So, like, I figured out a few things. 00:10:38.850 --> 00:10:42.909 So, one is, and I felt this for a while, where 00:10:42.909 --> 00:10:50.940 I feel like I have, when Zest struggles. Right. 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:54.700 Like I have to bribe him. So I'm like, I have 00:10:54.700 --> 00:10:58.000 to flip it. Right. I have to teach. And that's 00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:02.600 my fault. Right. Because he gets sucky. And then 00:11:02.600 --> 00:11:06.320 I'm like, oh, God. And then I do something to 00:11:06.320 --> 00:11:08.860 help him out, which is instinct. Right. It's 00:11:08.860 --> 00:11:12.799 what most people would do. So. Yeah. So then 00:11:12.799 --> 00:11:15.860 I'm like, OK, I have. No, no, no, no. You have 00:11:15.860 --> 00:11:20.639 to give me except really good work. really good 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:24.700 effort and then I will reward that so I need 00:11:24.700 --> 00:11:29.340 to flip it around right so instead of saying 00:11:29.340 --> 00:11:33.039 come on give me a good transition because he 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:36.059 has a similar issue right right and then if he 00:11:36.059 --> 00:11:39.759 doesn't go no no buddy this is a transition I 00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:43.000 want and help him out and blah blah blah because 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:46.879 I know like if I bring the cookies out or a toy 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:50.519 out in that moment I'll get what I want. Right. 00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:53.340 But in essence, I'm creating it. He's not giving 00:11:53.340 --> 00:11:56.639 it to me. So I took him to the Lowe's the other 00:11:56.639 --> 00:12:00.620 day and he worked exactly like in the ring. And 00:12:00.620 --> 00:12:03.179 I was like, oh, perfect, because this is what 00:12:03.179 --> 00:12:07.600 I need. I need him to be like he is in the ring. 00:12:07.620 --> 00:12:11.720 Right. I said, OK, so I let's say, I don't know, 00:12:11.740 --> 00:12:16.419 send him to the glove. Right. Oh, oh. you know, 00:12:16.419 --> 00:12:20.480 really slow, trots back. And I took it and I 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:28.700 felt this overwhelming urge to get out my toy 00:12:28.700 --> 00:12:33.080 or get out some cookies. And I'm like, nope, 00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:37.120 I'm not doing it. But neither am I going to accept 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:40.840 this because it's not meeting my criteria of 00:12:40.840 --> 00:12:44.129 what I want, right? And I've taught you what 00:12:44.129 --> 00:12:47.210 I want. So it's not like you don't know. Now, 00:12:47.230 --> 00:12:49.570 I'm not going to like beat you over the head 00:12:49.570 --> 00:12:53.269 or be like, no, I'm just like not going to reward 00:12:53.269 --> 00:12:56.549 it. Right. Because like if I said to the dog 00:12:56.549 --> 00:13:00.309 down and the dog sat, I'm not going to go yes 00:13:00.309 --> 00:13:02.789 and give him a cookie. Right. I'm going to go 00:13:02.789 --> 00:13:07.769 silly dog stand. I said down. And then when you 00:13:07.769 --> 00:13:10.899 down, I'll say good dog or whatever. Right. Right. 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:13.720 So it's the same concept. It's just a bigger 00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:17.120 chain right now. And again, I know I fully train 00:13:17.120 --> 00:13:19.980 this. He has a skill level, etc. Right. So whether 00:13:19.980 --> 00:13:22.440 it's the distraction or whether it's he feels 00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:24.500 pressure in that environment, regardless, it's 00:13:24.500 --> 00:13:28.580 OK. We're just going to do it again. Right. So 00:13:28.580 --> 00:13:33.360 no cookie, no toy. I did try to charge him up 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:36.259 a little bit at the beginning. So bounce, bounce 00:13:36.259 --> 00:13:38.879 again. And he's like, OK, can kind of bounce. 00:13:38.919 --> 00:13:42.139 I'm like, no. bounced like for real. And I just 00:13:42.139 --> 00:13:44.840 stayed with it until he started bouncing like 00:13:44.840 --> 00:13:47.659 a lunatic. So again, even there, there was like 00:13:47.659 --> 00:13:52.000 this hesitation and I felt myself going to cave. 00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:54.480 Right. And I'm like, no, I'm just going to be 00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:58.360 super patient. Right. Come on. So until he's 00:13:58.360 --> 00:14:02.139 bouncing freely. Because at the beginning he's 00:14:02.139 --> 00:14:05.220 bouncing because I told him to. It's a command. 00:14:05.559 --> 00:14:09.039 But dude, when we train, you bounce freely all 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:11.620 the time. By freely, I mean, you're just, yeah, 00:14:11.740 --> 00:14:15.179 I'm bouncing. Right. Because you want to. So 00:14:15.179 --> 00:14:17.200 I'm just going to wait you out. Right. And then 00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:19.320 all of a sudden he turns a corner and he starts 00:14:19.320 --> 00:14:22.620 hopping like freely. And I'm like, good boy. 00:14:23.299 --> 00:14:26.960 Now let's try to do the glove. Right. Let's pivot. 00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:32.669 Send. He runs out. He starts to run back before 00:14:32.669 --> 00:14:35.350 he can truck because now you gave me three quarters. 00:14:35.409 --> 00:14:37.730 Really good effort. I'm like, yes. So now you 00:14:37.730 --> 00:14:40.629 said a really good comparison. This is the work 00:14:40.629 --> 00:14:46.049 I will reward when you give me that work. I will 00:14:46.049 --> 00:14:48.730 give you a really good reward for that. If you 00:14:48.730 --> 00:14:51.450 give me the other work, I'm not going to get 00:14:51.450 --> 00:14:55.580 upset with you, but we're going to try it. a 00:14:55.580 --> 00:14:58.600 few more times until you get it. So I kind of 00:14:58.600 --> 00:15:04.940 did that with him. And then, um, I went to a 00:15:04.940 --> 00:15:11.179 match on Saturday and same kind of similar thing, 00:15:11.259 --> 00:15:13.820 like a little better than at the store, but you 00:15:13.820 --> 00:15:16.299 know, I always get the same at a match, but usually 00:15:16.299 --> 00:15:18.919 I always go and help him. And I'm like, nope, 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:21.809 we're going to do the same thing. you're going 00:15:21.809 --> 00:15:24.370 to give me effort and I'm just going to be really 00:15:24.370 --> 00:15:26.690 patient. I don't care if we only do one exercise 00:15:26.690 --> 00:15:29.870 out of four runs. I don't care. Like, but we're 00:15:29.870 --> 00:15:32.850 going to do it over a few times until you give 00:15:32.850 --> 00:15:35.710 me what I want, or at least give me effort, right? 00:15:35.769 --> 00:15:38.990 Like more effort. And then we're going to have 00:15:38.990 --> 00:15:41.309 a party with that. And then by the time, and 00:15:41.309 --> 00:15:44.909 so that, so I had some really nice pieces. I 00:15:44.909 --> 00:15:47.049 felt like he was starting to have some understanding. 00:15:47.929 --> 00:15:52.389 And then Sunday I went to a match and he worked 00:15:52.389 --> 00:15:57.190 lights, lights out. Now I'm not saying it's going 00:15:57.190 --> 00:16:00.029 to work at a show or whatever, but I do remember 00:16:00.029 --> 00:16:05.429 that this is what I did a few months before the 00:16:05.429 --> 00:16:08.610 NOC. Cause I would go to like. you know, like 00:16:08.610 --> 00:16:11.509 stores in front of the Walmart, et cetera, et 00:16:11.509 --> 00:16:14.490 cetera. And he will get really flat, like in 00:16:14.490 --> 00:16:17.470 the ring. Now, whether it's distraction, whether 00:16:17.470 --> 00:16:21.470 it's whatever the case, right? And I remember 00:16:21.470 --> 00:16:24.330 back then what I did was I would be like, oh, 00:16:24.350 --> 00:16:26.950 silly dog, that's not how you do that exercise. 00:16:27.110 --> 00:16:29.870 Let's try again. And I'd have to do some exercises 00:16:29.870 --> 00:16:32.269 like three or four times and then he would run 00:16:32.269 --> 00:16:37.049 and I'd be like, yes, woo -hoo. huge like shenanigans 00:16:37.049 --> 00:16:42.909 and he figured it out right and it carried over 00:16:42.909 --> 00:16:45.470 then somewhere along the line more than likely 00:16:45.470 --> 00:16:48.769 my fault right probably somewhere he got a little 00:16:48.769 --> 00:16:52.149 sucky I went and covered up for it in my training 00:16:52.149 --> 00:16:57.789 yep and so on so anyway that so the other thing 00:16:57.789 --> 00:17:02.110 I'm doing is like kind of in a similar vein but 00:17:02.110 --> 00:17:04.190 i'm doing this like at home because i do have 00:17:04.190 --> 00:17:06.650 a similar issue with like transitions pivot stuff 00:17:06.650 --> 00:17:10.190 like that yeah and again usually i'm like come 00:17:10.190 --> 00:17:12.690 on let's go and if he i'm like all right that's 00:17:12.690 --> 00:17:14.890 the best you can do all right good job no i'm 00:17:14.890 --> 00:17:18.269 like dude no i want you slamming into me and 00:17:18.269 --> 00:17:21.529 hopping like a lunatic because you know if i 00:17:21.529 --> 00:17:24.410 get less maybe i'll get what i want right but 00:17:24.410 --> 00:17:28.539 again i'm not gonna bribe you into it So we're 00:17:28.539 --> 00:17:33.140 just in my garage and I'm like, let's go. That's 00:17:33.140 --> 00:17:35.339 my transition cue. And he's like, but I'm like, 00:17:35.420 --> 00:17:38.160 oh, silly dog. That's not a transition. Let's 00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:42.279 try that again. Let's go. Right. And I'll sidestep. 00:17:43.579 --> 00:17:48.119 And then when he gives me a lot of energy, then 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:52.599 I would go, that's what I want. Yeah, exactly. 00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:56.960 And then I'm. also mixing in and this is like 00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:00.440 where I'm a little bit weak where I tend I still 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:05.380 think I reward too much um where then he'll give 00:18:05.380 --> 00:18:07.960 me that and I'll go yes and then I'll reward 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:11.500 him so now I don't reward it every time I'll 00:18:11.500 --> 00:18:16.220 do wow so sometimes I just praise you and you 00:18:16.220 --> 00:18:19.660 jump up and down Sometimes I'm just like, that 00:18:19.660 --> 00:18:22.519 was really good. I love that. Sometimes I'm like, 00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:25.240 super buddy. We move a little bit. Then I go, 00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:28.940 yes. Then I actually feed you or, or I go toy 00:18:28.940 --> 00:18:32.500 and we do the toy so that you're not actually 00:18:32.500 --> 00:18:36.599 getting a food or toy reinforcer every time. 00:18:36.859 --> 00:18:40.680 And at first he was constantly like, wait, what? 00:18:40.759 --> 00:18:42.640 Where's the food? Wait, what? Where's the toy? 00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:45.799 Wait, what? And I'm like, no, no, you're good. 00:18:45.900 --> 00:18:48.079 And he's like, well, thanks. But looking around 00:18:48.079 --> 00:18:49.759 like, where's the toy? I'm like, nope, you're 00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:51.599 not getting it. Come here. Jump up and down. 00:18:51.779 --> 00:18:56.980 And it was hard because we were neither of us 00:18:56.980 --> 00:19:00.359 were comfortable with it. Right. And so, again, 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:05.519 I feel that temptation to just go fuck it and 00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:09.059 give him the food. Right. And I'm like, no, no, 00:19:09.099 --> 00:19:13.180 no, no. Like, I have to. kind of and it's that 00:19:13.180 --> 00:19:15.980 piece is starting to get better and better and 00:19:15.980 --> 00:19:19.380 better like every day where and I think part 00:19:19.380 --> 00:19:24.000 of it is where we feel like oh they're looking 00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:27.619 for it like oh they're no but yeah they are because 00:19:27.619 --> 00:19:31.849 that's I've created that expectation. Yes. It's 00:19:31.849 --> 00:19:36.150 not like he can't do it without it. He's confused. 00:19:36.789 --> 00:19:40.410 So I have to be patient and work through the 00:19:40.410 --> 00:19:44.789 confusion. And now he's starting to understand. 00:19:44.869 --> 00:19:48.950 Oh, sometimes we just jump up and down. Sometimes 00:19:48.950 --> 00:19:51.410 we do that. I'm not saying it's fully there, 00:19:51.529 --> 00:19:57.559 but. The key here is multiple, many, many times 00:19:57.559 --> 00:20:00.920 within sessions and from session to session, 00:20:01.140 --> 00:20:05.799 I could feel myself going, this isn't working. 00:20:05.940 --> 00:20:09.599 I'm just going to do what I've always done. And 00:20:09.599 --> 00:20:12.720 then I have to stop myself and go, wait, is it 00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:17.519 not working? I can't really say that yet because 00:20:17.519 --> 00:20:24.029 I need more time. Exactly. Exactly. Definitely. 00:20:24.529 --> 00:20:27.349 Yeah. And I, I'm doing the same thing and what 00:20:27.349 --> 00:20:32.230 I'm doing with my, um, what I'm doing right now, 00:20:32.309 --> 00:20:35.470 what the new thing is the new flavor of the week 00:20:35.470 --> 00:20:40.890 this week is I'm doing a ton of, I'm just calling 00:20:40.890 --> 00:20:45.269 it doodling. So what was really interesting was 00:20:45.269 --> 00:20:50.920 I went to go set up ever to go do articles. the 00:20:50.920 --> 00:20:54.460 week after we got back, I'm like by myself in 00:20:54.460 --> 00:20:57.660 my building. Like there's no one there. There's 00:20:57.660 --> 00:21:01.480 no, there's no like any form of like outside 00:21:01.480 --> 00:21:03.720 pressure that would make her feel like, oh God, 00:21:03.779 --> 00:21:06.440 we're doing like the formal thing. I just set 00:21:06.440 --> 00:21:11.140 her up. I marked her article pile and she literally 00:21:11.140 --> 00:21:15.230 like. tried to climb up my body. Like she couldn't 00:21:15.230 --> 00:21:17.049 even sit there. So I'm like, all right, well, 00:21:17.109 --> 00:21:19.730 there's definitely emotional baggage attached 00:21:19.730 --> 00:21:25.769 to this exercise. So talking to somebody else 00:21:25.769 --> 00:21:29.410 who I train with, I was hashing this out and 00:21:29.410 --> 00:21:31.190 she's familiar with some of this stuff that's 00:21:31.190 --> 00:21:34.410 going on, whatever. And she said, why don't you 00:21:34.410 --> 00:21:39.609 right now separate? You're like, you work on 00:21:39.609 --> 00:21:43.509 your transitions and your setups, like the doodling 00:21:43.509 --> 00:21:47.509 part of it, where she has to do those pieces 00:21:47.509 --> 00:21:51.369 correctly. Like she has to bring it to the table 00:21:51.369 --> 00:21:54.509 and don't even just, don't even do the exercise, 00:21:54.569 --> 00:21:57.809 like set all your crap up, do your ring entrance, 00:21:57.990 --> 00:22:00.150 do your transition, do your setup. And she has 00:22:00.150 --> 00:22:04.569 to do it. And I did that by myself in my building, 00:22:04.670 --> 00:22:08.940 nobody there. And I got sucky. Like I got trial 00:22:08.940 --> 00:22:12.339 -y, crappy shit I get, which was great because 00:22:12.339 --> 00:22:15.660 then I worked on it. So when she didn't transition, 00:22:15.980 --> 00:22:18.240 like she got all like, oh, I can barely stay 00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:20.299 with you and heal position through this fucking 00:22:20.299 --> 00:22:23.539 transition. I go, and I have to watch myself 00:22:23.539 --> 00:22:26.480 because I get annoyed. So I had to really watch 00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:29.240 my emotional state. Yeah, and that's a huge point, 00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:32.079 right? Because it's so important for us to be 00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:36.339 mindful. It is. And she's emotions moment by 00:22:36.339 --> 00:22:39.500 moment. So we can manage them because we can't 00:22:39.500 --> 00:22:41.960 manage them if we're not aware. If we're aware, 00:22:42.299 --> 00:22:44.940 it's OK to have those emotions. We are human. 00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:48.339 Right. But we must be aware and manage them. 00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:52.140 And that's the key. Right. Really the key. Because 00:22:52.140 --> 00:22:56.000 I had that dog like she. Yeah. So I'm just like, 00:22:56.099 --> 00:22:58.819 oh, I go, no, no, no. That's not a transition. 00:22:59.059 --> 00:23:02.220 I got. So I take her by the collar, which she's 00:23:02.220 --> 00:23:05.480 like. oh God, I have to watch this too. But I 00:23:05.480 --> 00:23:08.779 have to be like, this is a transition. Let's 00:23:08.779 --> 00:23:11.319 go or whatever my word is I use, which is actually 00:23:11.319 --> 00:23:16.440 with me. And she's like, oh, but I go with me 00:23:16.440 --> 00:23:19.559 until she actually willingly comes on the collar. 00:23:19.740 --> 00:23:22.000 Like I'm putting that in and she understands 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:26.059 that. So once she does that, I go, oh, wow, look 00:23:26.059 --> 00:23:29.380 at you. You did it. Let's go try it again. Dude, 00:23:29.460 --> 00:23:32.529 this took like. This took like three, four reps 00:23:32.529 --> 00:23:37.109 before I got a with me. But once she did it and 00:23:37.109 --> 00:23:41.369 was ears up like, OK, I'm coming. That's when 00:23:41.369 --> 00:23:43.150 I marked it like what you just talked about. 00:23:43.470 --> 00:23:48.730 But it I've got all like I'm so I'm I'm working 00:23:48.730 --> 00:23:52.009 on all this in my pit. I get it in my pivots. 00:23:52.049 --> 00:23:55.490 I don't know what it is. Like I pivot. She pivots 00:23:55.490 --> 00:23:58.309 with me. And then as I'm coming to the end of 00:23:58.309 --> 00:24:01.740 the pivot. She looks like she wants to die. Well, 00:24:01.740 --> 00:24:04.779 it probably starts before the pivot because for 00:24:04.779 --> 00:24:06.819 a pivot, they're sitting there for a long period 00:24:06.819 --> 00:24:09.119 of time and they get really flat. I've been doing 00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:13.460 this game that sometimes I'm like, what is wrong 00:24:13.460 --> 00:24:16.579 with you? So like I do this workshop, like I'm 00:24:16.579 --> 00:24:18.640 putting together this workshop, right? A few 00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:25.789 weeks ago. And so I'm like, oh, so. The workshop 00:24:25.789 --> 00:24:29.609 is like things you can do to increase arousal. 00:24:29.609 --> 00:24:31.750 Right. Because we're always talking about managing 00:24:31.750 --> 00:24:35.849 arousal, whatever. So I'm like, OK, so I put 00:24:35.849 --> 00:24:38.049 and then I'm like thinking in my head, OK, what 00:24:38.049 --> 00:24:41.589 can we like? All right. This technique, that 00:24:41.589 --> 00:24:43.670 technique that and then I'm like, all right, 00:24:43.690 --> 00:24:46.769 the ready, steady game. And I go in my garage 00:24:46.769 --> 00:24:51.029 to film it. Do you think I've done this with 00:24:51.029 --> 00:24:56.259 Zesty? No. So I'm doing it with him and I'm like, 00:24:56.339 --> 00:25:00.759 oh, my God, he loves this game. It's working 00:25:00.759 --> 00:25:06.599 amazing. What is wrong with you? Right. So it's 00:25:06.599 --> 00:25:10.220 that concept that you talk about is the dopamine 00:25:10.220 --> 00:25:13.740 is released in anticipation of something exciting. 00:25:13.940 --> 00:25:17.519 Right. Not it's like in anticipation of. Right. 00:25:17.559 --> 00:25:24.650 So it's the whole ready, steady. one two three 00:25:24.650 --> 00:25:30.069 and then an explosion right like yes and then 00:25:30.069 --> 00:25:33.549 I'm like tossing cookies or chase it go or I 00:25:33.549 --> 00:25:35.369 have the cookie I'm like is it gonna go left 00:25:35.369 --> 00:25:38.490 or right or what where's it going this way that 00:25:38.490 --> 00:25:42.009 way and he's like and then I finally toss a cookie 00:25:42.009 --> 00:25:44.250 and then he gets a cookie and then I'm like get 00:25:44.250 --> 00:25:46.869 back in here now it's back to stillness right 00:25:46.869 --> 00:25:53.269 so I'm like ready two three, and then explosion. 00:25:53.390 --> 00:25:57.430 So I do that over and over and he starts to get 00:25:57.430 --> 00:26:02.210 crazy. Right. So then I'm like, okay, I can transition 00:26:02.210 --> 00:26:05.930 that to doing that without a verbal. So I'm just 00:26:05.930 --> 00:26:08.569 looking at him. I'm saying it in my head. Ready? 00:26:08.630 --> 00:26:11.880 Two, three, right. So this doesn't all happen 00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:14.140 in five minutes, like session after session. 00:26:14.519 --> 00:26:16.819 Right. So now I can look at him, say it in my 00:26:16.819 --> 00:26:20.779 head. And he's like, and then an explosion. Right. 00:26:20.859 --> 00:26:25.220 So I'm like, OK, now I can start bringing this 00:26:25.220 --> 00:26:28.740 into my pivot. So now instead of him sitting 00:26:28.740 --> 00:26:31.079 there going, oh, God, oh, God. And then I do 00:26:31.079 --> 00:26:35.490 the pivot and he's like, I'm coming. Right. I'm 00:26:35.490 --> 00:26:38.710 like, and then I get like, and then I explode 00:26:38.710 --> 00:26:41.849 into the pivot. So it's not completely finished, 00:26:41.890 --> 00:26:46.210 but it's definitely like, I can see it working. 00:26:46.269 --> 00:26:48.970 So I'm doing that, like heading into my transition. 00:26:50.230 --> 00:26:54.009 I'm doing it like on pivots. I'm doing it wherever 00:26:54.009 --> 00:26:59.819 I feel like. the exercise might be flat so what 00:26:59.819 --> 00:27:03.420 I did is like um he doesn't like explode into 00:27:03.420 --> 00:27:06.900 the article so I'm taking out the pivot I'm just 00:27:06.900 --> 00:27:11.279 sitting him and I'm like ready two three and 00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:16.359 he's like and I'm like fine and he's like running 00:27:16.359 --> 00:27:20.500 out and now that's like starting to look way 00:27:20.500 --> 00:27:25.569 better um So anyway, so I'm incorporating. But 00:27:25.569 --> 00:27:30.849 again, I'm like, I'm not feeding. I'm not bribing 00:27:30.849 --> 00:27:33.849 it. Right. Like very quickly, I started reducing 00:27:33.849 --> 00:27:37.250 the food and I would do the pivot. And then I'd 00:27:37.250 --> 00:27:42.150 go, wow. And wow, meaning you may not get food. 00:27:42.329 --> 00:27:44.710 You may not get a toy. Maybe you will. Maybe 00:27:44.710 --> 00:27:46.589 you won't. Maybe I'm just going to praise you. 00:27:46.630 --> 00:27:49.029 Maybe we're just going to jump up and down. Right. 00:27:49.109 --> 00:27:51.730 So immediate, cause I'm like, I'm not good. If 00:27:51.730 --> 00:27:56.289 I immediately now take this game and every single 00:27:56.289 --> 00:27:59.349 time pay it, well, what's going to happen when 00:27:59.349 --> 00:28:04.230 I don't pay it? Exactly. I'm going to be screwed. 00:28:04.670 --> 00:28:09.529 So immediately I'm moving away and same with 00:28:09.529 --> 00:28:12.049 my transitions, right? Like I do the game, then 00:28:12.049 --> 00:28:15.829 we explode into the transition and I'm varying 00:28:15.829 --> 00:28:21.339 what's going to happen. And, um, so that again, 00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:24.160 don't know. I won't know for a couple of weeks. 00:28:24.220 --> 00:28:25.980 I don't think my next show is for like another 00:28:25.980 --> 00:28:30.940 couple of weeks. If, or how any of this is gonna 00:28:30.940 --> 00:28:36.200 transfer, but so far there, there are definite 00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:41.039 areas where in the past, even just training with 00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:43.400 my training partners, like his articles have 00:28:43.400 --> 00:28:48.240 been like meh, you know? And like today he like 00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:52.339 flew out, went boom, boom, grabbed it flying 00:28:52.339 --> 00:28:57.099 back. And I'm like, yes. Yeah. And I did make 00:28:57.099 --> 00:28:59.099 a big deal about that. And I did pay it because 00:28:59.099 --> 00:29:03.539 it was first rep. Yeah. Lots of effort. Yeah. 00:29:04.259 --> 00:29:09.940 So I think it's like changing that mindset of 00:29:09.940 --> 00:29:17.099 like getting sucked into like. Paying them to 00:29:17.099 --> 00:29:22.319 get what we want versus give me what I want, 00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:27.279 then I am going to reward you for doing it. Right. 00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:31.700 Exactly. Exactly. That's the mindset for sure. 00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:37.680 Because otherwise we're inadvertently teaching 00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:42.839 them if it gets hard or if. whatever's going 00:29:42.839 --> 00:29:47.180 on and you act like this, then I will bail you 00:29:47.180 --> 00:29:50.200 out. Right. And then when we can't bail them 00:29:50.200 --> 00:29:53.160 out, well, then we're stuck and they're stuck. 00:29:53.400 --> 00:29:58.240 Right. And then we have kind of a problem. So 00:29:58.240 --> 00:30:02.519 we, but we can't take all reinforcement away, 00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:07.579 you know? So I think it's just shifting the responsibility. 00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:11.740 Like I'll even, I'll even say like, I've trained 00:30:11.740 --> 00:30:14.799 in my training partner's training building with 00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:17.920 him or with my other two training partners and 00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:20.960 chained a few exercises and done transitions. 00:30:21.019 --> 00:30:25.299 And he's given me meh transitions. And I'm like, 00:30:25.339 --> 00:30:28.259 come on, come on. And like, I'm like, I guess 00:30:28.259 --> 00:30:31.900 he can't just can't give me more. And I've accepted 00:30:31.900 --> 00:30:34.900 it. Well, then I certainly can't expect to get 00:30:34.900 --> 00:30:38.109 more than that in the ring. You know, so now 00:30:38.109 --> 00:30:40.710 I'm just like, all right, buddy, let's try that 00:30:40.710 --> 00:30:44.329 again. Like, I'm not like, no, you're not. I'm 00:30:44.329 --> 00:30:47.670 just like, well, let's try it again. Right. I 00:30:47.670 --> 00:30:50.970 need a little bit more. And I think our dogs 00:30:50.970 --> 00:30:54.769 are very intelligent. All of our animals, like 00:30:54.769 --> 00:31:01.289 dogs, period, are incredibly intelligent. And 00:31:01.289 --> 00:31:04.650 they can learn concepts as long as we're consistent. 00:31:05.309 --> 00:31:10.519 Right. Um, so I do believe, cause I know I did 00:31:10.519 --> 00:31:13.799 it with zeal, you know, like I had to shift it 00:31:13.799 --> 00:31:16.339 around and it worked and he totally understood 00:31:16.339 --> 00:31:23.519 it. And he changed, like he became, he gained 00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:26.599 confidence, even though he was not innately confident, 00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:31.220 he became confident. Like, would he ever be as 00:31:31.220 --> 00:31:34.759 confident as Zayna? No, but he became confident 00:31:34.759 --> 00:31:40.119 enough. Yeah. To do really hard work at the highest, 00:31:40.220 --> 00:31:43.200 highest level under the toughest conditions. 00:31:43.680 --> 00:31:47.460 Right. So it's possible. It's just like, you 00:31:47.460 --> 00:31:49.720 know, it's just always like it's this process 00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:54.019 of getting to that point. Because, you know, 00:31:54.079 --> 00:31:57.180 our dogs change, too. Like they may look one 00:31:57.180 --> 00:32:00.039 way at one or two years old and a little different 00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:06.529 at three, four. And so it's that. It's so hard 00:32:06.529 --> 00:32:12.670 because it's just this, it's always fluid. It 00:32:12.670 --> 00:32:21.990 is. It is. It is. And I don't know, you know, 00:32:22.049 --> 00:32:29.329 I mean, this is like, to me, like, you know, 00:32:29.329 --> 00:32:32.569 it's easy. I don't know. It's hard to say what 00:32:32.569 --> 00:32:36.890 people will say about this. kind of topic but 00:32:36.890 --> 00:32:41.109 you know I'm a lot of people have like a method 00:32:41.109 --> 00:32:43.609 well if the dog's not doing it then this is what 00:32:43.609 --> 00:32:47.430 you do but I I just feel like it's more than 00:32:47.430 --> 00:32:50.089 that like the training aspect of it right like 00:32:50.089 --> 00:32:55.650 trying to figure out how to get like what we're 00:32:55.650 --> 00:33:00.730 looking for in the ring in a way for that particular 00:33:00.730 --> 00:33:03.029 dog you know because that's the other thing is 00:33:03.029 --> 00:33:07.190 like Ever's not every dog. Zesty's not every 00:33:07.190 --> 00:33:12.269 dog. Like you can't just use this method to train 00:33:12.269 --> 00:33:14.569 that piece. Do you know what I'm talking about? 00:33:14.710 --> 00:33:16.890 No, you can't. It's impossible because it's just 00:33:16.890 --> 00:33:20.529 like trying to teach every child the same way. 00:33:20.549 --> 00:33:24.250 Right? Right. It's just not. It's like me trying 00:33:24.250 --> 00:33:26.190 to teach all my students the same way. It's impossible. 00:33:26.430 --> 00:33:30.690 They're all different. And I have this similar 00:33:30.690 --> 00:33:34.319 struggle with students. Like, right. Like I'll 00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:37.539 have all these different students and I'm trying 00:33:37.539 --> 00:33:40.140 to present the material and all these 18 different 00:33:40.140 --> 00:33:45.180 ways. And then like, like they, sometimes they're 00:33:45.180 --> 00:33:47.680 looking at me and I'm looking at them and I'm 00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:49.519 like, they have no fucking idea what I just said. 00:33:49.619 --> 00:33:51.819 Like, I'm trying to, I'm like, okay, let me explain 00:33:51.819 --> 00:33:54.759 it this way. And I, I'm looking at her and I'm 00:33:54.759 --> 00:33:56.380 like, she still doesn't get it. I'm like, okay, 00:33:56.440 --> 00:33:58.160 let me try the thorough. And I'm like, she still 00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:01.269 doesn't get it. Right? Like, and that's not a 00:34:01.269 --> 00:34:03.750 reflection of me, nor is it a reflection of her. 00:34:04.109 --> 00:34:08.250 It's just a reflection of maybe at that moment 00:34:08.250 --> 00:34:12.070 in time, maybe that time of day, maybe, you know, 00:34:12.070 --> 00:34:15.630 she had other things on her mind. Maybe she's 00:34:15.630 --> 00:34:18.130 upset about something. Maybe I think I'm saying 00:34:18.130 --> 00:34:24.099 it one way and I'm not at all. things like happening 00:34:24.099 --> 00:34:27.840 at the same time. Right. And it's the same thing 00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:29.719 with dogs. It's like, and they don't even speak 00:34:29.719 --> 00:34:33.199 our language. Right. So they don't speak our 00:34:33.199 --> 00:34:36.019 language. They're all very different. They change 00:34:36.019 --> 00:34:38.599 moment by moment. They perceive the world differently 00:34:38.599 --> 00:34:44.860 than we do as humans. Right. Like there's so 00:34:44.860 --> 00:34:50.030 it's so complex, you know, and so. I absolutely 00:34:50.030 --> 00:34:54.309 don't. I don't think it's possible for any method 00:34:54.309 --> 00:34:57.690 to work for every dog. Like, I just don't see 00:34:57.690 --> 00:35:01.130 it. Like, I don't believe it's possible. Right. 00:35:01.909 --> 00:35:06.250 And to be fair to the dog, because we're also 00:35:06.250 --> 00:35:10.429 trying to be fair. And we're also, you know, 00:35:10.429 --> 00:35:13.929 like trying to be kind and like all these other 00:35:13.929 --> 00:35:19.139 things like. It's it's very complicated. And 00:35:19.139 --> 00:35:21.639 and then we also have to remember, like, what 00:35:21.639 --> 00:35:24.480 are we what the stuff we're asking them to do 00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:29.480 is so completely and utterly ridiculous. Like 00:35:29.480 --> 00:35:35.079 it makes zero sense to an animal like none, like 00:35:35.079 --> 00:35:39.639 none. Like when I hike with my dogs, the only 00:35:39.639 --> 00:35:43.019 thing they do that's remotely resembles anything 00:35:43.019 --> 00:35:47.690 is sniffing. Right. Like maybe that's remotely 00:35:47.690 --> 00:35:50.690 similar to send articles. Although I'm sure if 00:35:50.690 --> 00:35:52.329 they could tell you, they would be like, dude, 00:35:52.429 --> 00:35:55.769 it is absolutely nothing like what we do in real 00:35:55.769 --> 00:36:02.369 life. You know? So same as agility. Like what's 00:36:02.369 --> 00:36:05.309 with the contact? Like my dogs don't like run 00:36:05.309 --> 00:36:11.489 over a tree and then stop. Like what? Like any 00:36:11.489 --> 00:36:14.869 sport, like. We have to be empathetic and go, 00:36:14.929 --> 00:36:17.070 what we are asking them to do is so ridiculous. 00:36:17.170 --> 00:36:19.670 So, of course, it's hard because it makes no 00:36:19.670 --> 00:36:24.349 freaking sense whatsoever from the animal's point 00:36:24.349 --> 00:36:30.869 of view. Right. Agree. Agree. It's tough. It's 00:36:30.869 --> 00:36:34.050 really, really complicated. And I think the whole 00:36:34.050 --> 00:36:37.150 thing is you have to think about like, you know, 00:36:37.170 --> 00:36:40.250 I've been thinking so much about reinforcement. 00:36:40.610 --> 00:36:45.829 Right. Because it's kind of like a huge challenge. 00:36:45.969 --> 00:36:52.570 And like my one training partner, like not a 00:36:52.570 --> 00:36:55.510 hundred percent, but a greater percentage of 00:36:55.510 --> 00:36:57.769 her training is pattern training and a lower 00:36:57.769 --> 00:37:00.130 reinforcement rate. And our dog's working like 00:37:00.130 --> 00:37:04.110 lights out, you know? Yeah. So it's making me 00:37:04.110 --> 00:37:08.500 think a lot. Like I. Try to be super mindful 00:37:08.500 --> 00:37:12.559 of like weaning, you know, lessening food as 00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:16.039 quickly as possible, making behavior self -reinforcing, 00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:18.639 variable reinforcement, on and on and on. Watch 00:37:18.639 --> 00:37:21.960 myself next to her and I am like the cookie monster. 00:37:22.260 --> 00:37:26.719 Like I am like drowning my dog in cookies. So, 00:37:26.719 --> 00:37:31.219 you know, it's a good perspective for me to have 00:37:31.219 --> 00:37:35.739 because it's kind of like, huh. Like how much 00:37:35.739 --> 00:37:39.059 do I, and I think I wrote a little blog on that, 00:37:39.119 --> 00:37:42.260 like having had Peggy on here for the Seeing 00:37:42.260 --> 00:37:45.320 Eye interview, like, yes, you know, she talked 00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:50.380 about those dogs working, doing this incredibly 00:37:50.380 --> 00:37:54.110 complex task. For praise in essence, and for 00:37:54.110 --> 00:37:56.789 the reinforcer of getting to move out in the 00:37:56.789 --> 00:37:59.269 environment, because that's inherently self -reinforcing. 00:37:59.510 --> 00:38:03.030 Right. And it's like, holy Hannah, like, okay, 00:38:03.050 --> 00:38:05.969 I get it. Some of it is apples and oranges, but 00:38:05.969 --> 00:38:09.469 dog training is dog training. Like, you know, 00:38:09.469 --> 00:38:13.190 it's, it's really making me think about like 00:38:13.190 --> 00:38:18.929 patterns about, you know, using praise more, 00:38:19.110 --> 00:38:24.789 you know? Yeah. Using my food even less. Like, 00:38:24.789 --> 00:38:29.889 just really stop going on autopilot as a trainer 00:38:29.889 --> 00:38:34.250 and really push, try to push my boundaries a 00:38:34.250 --> 00:38:36.849 little bit more and see how much more can I get 00:38:36.849 --> 00:38:43.610 for less. Right. You know, and where is that 00:38:43.610 --> 00:38:46.730 balance, right? Like, there's always a balance 00:38:46.730 --> 00:38:49.230 because you can never just pattern train. You 00:38:49.230 --> 00:38:52.650 can never just, like, there has to be. And that 00:38:52.650 --> 00:38:54.989 balance is going to be different for every dog. 00:38:55.489 --> 00:38:57.869 And it's going to be different throughout the 00:38:57.869 --> 00:39:01.190 dog's lifetime, right? Like puppy, adult, you 00:39:01.190 --> 00:39:04.809 know. Exactly. So it's something that I think 00:39:04.809 --> 00:39:10.969 you have to be revisiting constantly or evaluating. 00:39:11.349 --> 00:39:16.030 I don't know what the right word is, but. Well, 00:39:16.130 --> 00:39:19.150 I think it's something like I, you know, I'm 00:39:19.150 --> 00:39:23.289 being way more mindful now with Salty, you know, 00:39:23.289 --> 00:39:27.349 because I want to start that early. Like, I think 00:39:27.349 --> 00:39:30.409 I created a lot of that with Ever, you know, 00:39:30.489 --> 00:39:36.889 especially and Stormy too a little bit. Not as 00:39:36.889 --> 00:39:42.159 much, but, you know, I wasn't as mindful. as 00:39:42.159 --> 00:39:45.380 when and where and how I'm giving reinforcers, 00:39:45.400 --> 00:39:49.179 right? I just, I think it could get way better, 00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:52.780 like you just said. So that's what I'm doing 00:39:52.780 --> 00:39:55.239 with Celtic. I think the tricky thing is like, 00:39:55.400 --> 00:40:00.320 yes, we can create all the behaviors we want 00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:04.860 the way we want them using a high reinforcement 00:40:04.860 --> 00:40:09.340 rate. The problem is always getting that in competition. 00:40:10.250 --> 00:40:13.849 that's the sticking point right that's where 00:40:13.849 --> 00:40:17.570 like most of my students they can train the exercises 00:40:17.570 --> 00:40:22.349 you know they can look really good and then it's 00:40:22.349 --> 00:40:26.670 like you go the barrier of entry to the ring 00:40:26.670 --> 00:40:33.170 is it's like the grand canyon right between having 00:40:33.170 --> 00:40:39.659 taught the exercises and then getting a decent, 00:40:39.699 --> 00:40:42.360 I'm not even saying great, like a decent, and 00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:45.900 by decent, I don't mean score placement. I mean 00:40:45.900 --> 00:40:49.079 like where, you know, we're feeling like, oh, 00:40:49.159 --> 00:40:53.159 my dog looked comfortable. My dog looked, dare 00:40:53.159 --> 00:40:56.880 I say, you know, happy or relaxed or, you know, 00:40:56.880 --> 00:41:00.619 because the reality, and this is where I think 00:41:00.619 --> 00:41:03.440 there's a big disconnect in training too, right? 00:41:03.539 --> 00:41:07.500 Like it's great to say, We should be doing all 00:41:07.500 --> 00:41:09.960 these things. We should never, the dog should 00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:12.579 never make mistakes. The dog should this, we 00:41:12.579 --> 00:41:14.400 should never tell them they're wrong. This, that, 00:41:14.420 --> 00:41:19.260 and the other thing. That's all great. But like, 00:41:19.300 --> 00:41:22.320 then we have to get them in the ring. And the 00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:25.440 reality is, and this is what I think is a problem. 00:41:25.500 --> 00:41:29.880 Like people are not, maybe this is a theory I 00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:33.400 have. I could be dead wrong. I think people grossly 00:41:33.400 --> 00:41:39.480 underestimate. the reality of the ring is freaking 00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:44.360 hard on them. Competition is hard. Like it's 00:41:44.360 --> 00:41:47.039 meant to be hard. Like I go all the way back 00:41:47.039 --> 00:41:52.090 to field work, right? Like. It's ludicrous. Like 00:41:52.090 --> 00:41:55.949 if you went duck hunting, you sit in a blind, 00:41:56.210 --> 00:41:58.809 the duck falls, your dog goes and gets it. You 00:41:58.809 --> 00:42:01.170 don't give a shit how the dog gets it. Just go 00:42:01.170 --> 00:42:03.090 get the damn duck and bring it back so I don't 00:42:03.090 --> 00:42:04.849 have to go in the water in the middle of winter, 00:42:04.929 --> 00:42:08.590 right? You do a hunt test or a field trial. It 00:42:08.590 --> 00:42:12.769 is completely artificial. Go in a perfectly straight 00:42:12.769 --> 00:42:15.909 line. Don't do this. Don't do that. And I'm going 00:42:15.909 --> 00:42:18.329 to put all these things in the way to throw you 00:42:18.329 --> 00:42:20.909 off and blah, blah, blah. It is completely and 00:42:20.909 --> 00:42:24.690 utterly artificial. All right. That's why it's 00:42:24.690 --> 00:42:27.210 a test. And that's why it's a competition. And 00:42:27.210 --> 00:42:30.989 it's hard. And every dog can't do it. And it 00:42:30.989 --> 00:42:37.190 is stressful. So for to. Kind of have the philosophy 00:42:37.190 --> 00:42:41.170 that I'm going to train my dog a certain way 00:42:41.170 --> 00:42:46.809 because I don't want my dog to be it to be hard 00:42:46.809 --> 00:42:50.289 or stressful or any in any way, shape or form 00:42:50.289 --> 00:42:53.750 in training and then put them in the ring. It's 00:42:53.750 --> 00:42:58.570 actually grossly unfair. Yeah, for sure. Because 00:42:58.570 --> 00:43:03.099 your dog's not prepared. Right. You know, and 00:43:03.099 --> 00:43:05.480 then to go, well, I have no idea what happened, 00:43:05.679 --> 00:43:07.480 blah, blah, blah, et cetera, et cetera. It's 00:43:07.480 --> 00:43:13.639 like we are not being realistic and honest and 00:43:13.639 --> 00:43:18.000 fair. Right. Like we have to say as a whole, 00:43:18.119 --> 00:43:21.360 as a community, no, this is really hard. And 00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:23.960 the hard part is not teaching your dog the exercises 00:43:23.960 --> 00:43:27.739 like that's a cakewalk. That's a cakewalk. Yeah. 00:43:27.860 --> 00:43:33.079 You know. And we have to teach our dogs how to 00:43:33.079 --> 00:43:40.739 handle adversity and how to push when it's hard 00:43:40.739 --> 00:43:44.940 because that's what they have to do in the ring. 00:43:45.219 --> 00:43:49.539 Yeah, exactly. And that's where it gets tricky 00:43:49.539 --> 00:43:54.960 because that's where, you know. And that's where 00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:57.780 I'm at with a lot of my students. But I, you 00:43:57.780 --> 00:43:59.840 know, I count myself very blessed because they're 00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:03.940 very open minded and very flexible because I'm 00:44:03.940 --> 00:44:06.460 really saying to them, don't make it a little 00:44:06.460 --> 00:44:09.440 harder. You know, dog makes a mistake. Everybody 00:44:09.440 --> 00:44:13.440 freaks out on panics and training. It's broken. 00:44:13.539 --> 00:44:18.159 No, your articles are not broken. No, that. Exercise 00:44:18.159 --> 00:44:21.380 is not broken. Know your contacts aren't permanently 00:44:21.380 --> 00:44:25.760 broken. Right. Like the dog made a mistake. Let's 00:44:25.760 --> 00:44:28.820 teach the dog how to work through this mistake. 00:44:29.719 --> 00:44:34.619 Let's sometimes let's let the dog figure it out. 00:44:34.780 --> 00:44:40.739 Right. And let them muddle muddle through it. 00:44:40.820 --> 00:44:44.679 And then let's try it again. And what I find 00:44:44.679 --> 00:44:47.900 is when we do it again, oh, look, the dog does 00:44:47.900 --> 00:44:51.199 it. And the dog figured it out on their own. 00:44:51.500 --> 00:44:54.539 You know, and those are the kind of things that 00:44:54.539 --> 00:45:02.059 like we have to put that in place. And we have 00:45:02.059 --> 00:45:04.579 to sometimes say to the dog, like with Ceci, 00:45:04.619 --> 00:45:08.960 like, buddy, I'm like that you have to give me 00:45:08.960 --> 00:45:13.199 a little more. Right. You know. And I'm not, 00:45:13.239 --> 00:45:15.860 I can't, sorry, but I can't pull out a cookie 00:45:15.860 --> 00:45:18.659 for you to do this. Like you, come on, buddy. 00:45:19.059 --> 00:45:21.760 Dig, I know you can do it. Come on, you can do 00:45:21.760 --> 00:45:26.179 it. And then he does it. See, you did it. And 00:45:26.179 --> 00:45:29.460 that's the word, you know, the dig. I want them 00:45:29.460 --> 00:45:32.280 to dig. I want her to dig when it gets hard. 00:45:32.420 --> 00:45:34.820 And that's where, like we talk about, it's so 00:45:34.820 --> 00:45:39.539 hard because we want to go into help mode, but 00:45:39.539 --> 00:45:44.349 we can't. And it feels yucky and messy. I can't, 00:45:44.349 --> 00:45:47.869 I hate it. And like rep, it might take two, three 00:45:47.869 --> 00:45:50.869 times before then she actually brings it on her 00:45:50.869 --> 00:45:56.190 own. And that's when I can reward her, you know? 00:45:56.590 --> 00:45:59.809 And the thing is, it's so interesting to me because 00:45:59.809 --> 00:46:02.630 like in every sport, right? Like I'm a sports. 00:46:04.639 --> 00:46:08.360 fanatic because I've competed in sports and now 00:46:08.360 --> 00:46:11.159 there are sports that I have zero interest in 00:46:11.159 --> 00:46:14.880 but like sometimes I'll watch it because of the 00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:19.699 lessons right like and I feel like those human 00:46:19.699 --> 00:46:25.039 lessons apply to the animals as well right like 00:46:25.039 --> 00:46:30.800 every like the olympics like obsessed right with 00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:35.659 the drama because it's relevant to what we do 00:46:35.659 --> 00:46:40.559 okay like so the athletes will across the board 00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:43.659 tell you it's hard it's a struggle they have 00:46:43.659 --> 00:46:46.320 to do mental management they have to learn grit 00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:51.239 like they they will tell you like oh my god there 00:46:51.239 --> 00:46:54.159 was this great thing this michaela she just won 00:46:54.159 --> 00:46:59.590 olympic gold in slalom after having her last 00:46:59.590 --> 00:47:02.269 Olympics where it all went south, it was all 00:47:02.269 --> 00:47:04.909 a disaster. Anyway, like she was saying how, 00:47:05.130 --> 00:47:10.010 regardless of whether things go well or not, 00:47:10.110 --> 00:47:15.530 even when things go really well, it was a struggle 00:47:15.530 --> 00:47:23.389 to get that. Right. And they got there because 00:47:23.389 --> 00:47:29.110 of the struggle. They never say, I got here and 00:47:29.110 --> 00:47:32.550 it's been smooth sailing the whole way. They 00:47:32.550 --> 00:47:35.269 don't come out and go, I've always won everything. 00:47:35.409 --> 00:47:40.289 I've never lost. And, you know, it's just like, 00:47:40.510 --> 00:47:43.269 yeah, I don't know. It's just not that hard for 00:47:43.269 --> 00:47:47.929 me. You never hear them say that. Right. And 00:47:47.929 --> 00:47:51.949 the best of the best will tell stories of struggle 00:47:51.949 --> 00:47:57.769 and how they learned to become. strong and resilient 00:47:57.769 --> 00:48:01.750 right right and like i think it's the same like 00:48:01.750 --> 00:48:06.650 we're asking our dogs to do hard things so now 00:48:06.650 --> 00:48:09.570 some people say well i don't care if my dog doesn't 00:48:09.570 --> 00:48:12.750 do great it just has to qualify well great it's 00:48:12.750 --> 00:48:16.550 still hard right so your dog maybe your dog doesn't 00:48:16.550 --> 00:48:19.489 need as much resilience as my dog but your dog 00:48:19.489 --> 00:48:23.389 still needs resilience yeah for sure you know 00:48:23.389 --> 00:48:29.980 so Um, yeah, so that, so it's like, we really 00:48:29.980 --> 00:48:35.719 need to think about, you know, putting some resilience 00:48:35.719 --> 00:48:39.460 into their training, which like a lot, like I, 00:48:39.460 --> 00:48:43.199 like I said, like, um, we should, we should do 00:48:43.199 --> 00:48:47.099 a whole episode on it. Cause like, yeah, we have 00:48:47.099 --> 00:48:49.139 to, we have to do a whole episode on that. Cause 00:48:49.139 --> 00:48:51.980 like, I realized I could go down like, and like 00:48:51.980 --> 00:48:55.940 a whole rabbit hole right now. Because I'm really 00:48:55.940 --> 00:49:01.380 focusing on that. Yeah, me too. With my own dogs, 00:49:01.539 --> 00:49:08.500 but with my students. And it's having some really 00:49:08.500 --> 00:49:13.900 astounding, in a positive way, results. Yeah. 00:49:15.159 --> 00:49:19.320 Which certain of the things, like proofing, right? 00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:25.079 the old version of proofing is you set your dog 00:49:25.079 --> 00:49:27.480 up you make it really hard so your dog fails 00:49:27.480 --> 00:49:31.260 you tell your dog that's wrong right but the 00:49:31.260 --> 00:49:36.260 way we do it now is we make things hard and we 00:49:36.260 --> 00:49:39.420 let the dog kind of figure it out if they get 00:49:39.420 --> 00:49:41.699 stuck we help them just a little bit but it's 00:49:41.699 --> 00:49:45.010 like come on dog you can do it Yeah. And then 00:49:45.010 --> 00:49:47.349 they come out the other side and it really builds 00:49:47.349 --> 00:49:49.989 confidence. So that kind of stuff we've been 00:49:49.989 --> 00:49:54.070 doing, but I'm doing like things at a way younger 00:49:54.070 --> 00:50:01.570 age now. In the learning phase, like, yeah, we've 00:50:01.570 --> 00:50:04.409 been changing a lot of things. Yeah. So, yeah, 00:50:04.510 --> 00:50:07.090 we should do a whole episode on that. Yeah. Could 00:50:07.090 --> 00:50:09.989 probably be more than one episode. Yeah. But. 00:50:10.429 --> 00:50:13.250 Yeah, so I don't know. What's the take home? 00:50:13.409 --> 00:50:18.010 That it's hard. It's hard. It's fucking hard. 00:50:18.050 --> 00:50:20.969 Yeah, but I mean, I think that's fair. Like, 00:50:21.010 --> 00:50:23.190 because I think everybody always feels like they're 00:50:23.190 --> 00:50:25.369 failing because we're always comparing ourselves 00:50:25.369 --> 00:50:33.690 to this false image or this false, like, idea 00:50:33.690 --> 00:50:36.809 that, like, we should be able to or, you know. 00:50:37.110 --> 00:50:43.059 Right. And that it takes, you have to be flexible 00:50:43.059 --> 00:50:46.159 and you have to be willing to experiment. Yeah. 00:50:46.239 --> 00:50:49.800 And change things and try things. Definitely. 00:50:49.840 --> 00:50:53.639 Try and fail and try and fail and try and fail. 00:50:55.199 --> 00:51:01.219 That's the bottom line. That's what it is. That's 00:51:01.219 --> 00:51:06.960 what it is. Yeah. and try different things right 00:51:06.960 --> 00:51:09.059 because different things work for different dogs 00:51:09.059 --> 00:51:11.679 and I've sometimes tried stuff with a dog that 00:51:11.679 --> 00:51:13.940 didn't work and three years later I tried it 00:51:13.940 --> 00:51:15.840 again all of a sudden it works and I'm like oh 00:51:15.840 --> 00:51:23.360 that's weird yeah right um yeah and yeah definitely 00:51:23.360 --> 00:51:28.039 all right well we'll keep you guys posted on 00:51:28.039 --> 00:51:32.099 whether this stuff any of it worked or didn't 00:51:32.099 --> 00:51:39.079 work And helps you. And the next weeks and months 00:51:39.079 --> 00:51:46.019 of us endlessly trying to get what we need in 00:51:46.019 --> 00:51:50.699 the ring. The happy dog in the ring. Yep. And 00:51:50.699 --> 00:51:53.800 then there's Zaina. Happy birthday, Zaina. Zaina's 00:51:53.800 --> 00:51:57.860 10 today. Aw, happy birthday, you little whippersnapper. 00:51:58.280 --> 00:52:00.559 And no, I didn't do anything special because 00:52:00.559 --> 00:52:04.719 she thinks every day is her birthday. That's 00:52:04.719 --> 00:52:06.880 right. We'll just let her keep it. She's like, 00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:12.519 what? Every day is my birthday. Aw. She's so 00:52:12.519 --> 00:52:15.579 naughty. She's so funny. I let her bark at me 00:52:15.579 --> 00:52:19.300 in training today a whole lot. There you go. 00:52:19.340 --> 00:52:23.570 That made her happy. There you go. Perfect. that's 00:52:23.570 --> 00:52:30.670 perfect all right um okay okay the next episode 00:52:30.670 --> 00:52:32.949 bye everybody bye thanks