WEBVTT

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Hi everybody, welcome to the Canine Connection

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podcast. Lori and I, before we started recording,

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just started talking about training again and

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then we're like, oh shoot, we should be recording

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this because this is really interesting. You

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know, the reality is we're always training and

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we're always learning and we're always trying

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to figure things out and trying to make things

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better for our dogs. Right. And ultimately, in

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our case, we're trying to make our dogs more

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comfortable in the ring with the understanding

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that what they are doing in our sport. and I'm

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not saying this isn't true in most sports, right,

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is that they're being tested. If they're being

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tested, what? It's hard, right? There's a reason

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it's hard. It's a test. Therefore, the dogs are

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struggling to a certain extent, and there is

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no way around that. So in a perfect world, our...

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vision is that we want the dogs in the ring to

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be happy and comfortable and to and we have a

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vision of what that would look like right so

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like I have a vision that that looks like Zaina

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you know happy -go -lucky glumping around hippity

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-hoppitying prancy pantsing And basically like

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I'm concerned with the judge and with the environment.

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So that was beyond a struggle for me to get even

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remotely close to that with deal. And I don't

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really think I achieved it till he was like eight.

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And so basically we started talking about Lori's

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dog ever and my dog Zesty. Because they go in

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the ring and a lot of times they look like they're

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going to die. Right. And to me, to me. So this

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is my personal experience. I feel when I watch

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Dusty, sometimes he looks like I never reinforce

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him. I never do anything fun with him. Like the

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way he acts in the ring to me looks like I harass

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the living shit out of him for friends and precision.

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None of which I do. Right. Like he'll trot back

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on a retrieve. When I tell you I have done thousands

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of motivational retrieves in every possible way

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I could possibly think of from puppyhood on.

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Right. Why is he trotting back? And he just looks

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slow and worried and flat and unsure. And times

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that will also lead to him failing, you know,

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making a mistake because he's all like caught

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up in his head. Right. So you want to talk about

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your version of that with ever? Yeah, it's it

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runs very parallel to that where. you know, the

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thing is, it's like trait, like when we're trait,

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like this, we always go back, this is the hardest

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part, right? Like we always talk about this.

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And to me, like, this is what I tell all my students,

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like, it is the hardest part getting from that,

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from training into trialing, like into the ring

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and getting that, that optimal performance, right?

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And My thing with Ever is the same thing. When

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I'm training her, same thing. We play the games.

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I make things motivational because we want to

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make sure that there's enough in the bank. We

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want to make sure that they're motivated enough

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to do the thing. We want to make sure that...

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They have great feelings attached to these behaviors

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we're asking them to do under the circumstances

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and the environment we're putting them in, the

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trial environment. What happens, I feel like,

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with Ever is I do a bunch of that. And, of course,

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like, she gets totally, like, zesty. Like, they

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go fucking nuts. Like, they're totally different

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in training when we do that. They're fast. They're

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totally engaged with us. Yeah, confident. I mean,

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I get barking. I get spins. I get offering. And,

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like, that feels good. Like, we, right? Like,

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that, like, we love that. Cause that's kind of

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what we want. That's like you said, like I have

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this picture in my head. I love whenever looks

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like that. I love when she's edgy, you know,

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like that edgy, edgy look to her. But in truth,

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when I go to the trial, I don't get that. Like,

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this is the problem. Like I'll go in and. Same

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thing. Like I'll get it a little bit here and

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there, but then she worries and it is who she

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is. Like she totally cares. This dog cares so

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much about being right. Like that, like that

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is like her number one thing is just to absolutely

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do the right thing. And if she is like, like

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you said, like they get in their head about it.

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Like if you ever watch. ever do articles. You're

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going to see she goes out to the pile and she

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literally like goes from article to article like

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a poisonous snake's about to freaking bite her

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in the pile. Like it is like painful to watch

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and I hate it. Like I freaking hate it. So what

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do I do in training? I motivate. I do games.

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I've put cookies in the pile. I am always trying

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to like create it so that she's happier, wants

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to go out to the pile. But in essence, that is

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who she is. Like that is actually who she is

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in life. That is how she is in my house. The

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dog is not a high arousal dog in life. Like she

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literally will be on the couch 24 seven. Like

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she, she's not crazy in the house. She's not

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like. that's just who she is and she's super

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careful in the house like she she cares about

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everything in the house if we raise our voices

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in the house she like slinks off like we beat

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her we've never beat her so this is like this

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is my like this is my big thing with ever right

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now is that Like I need to be okay with her being

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in low arousal. And I also need to learn to train

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her in low arousal because that, yeah. That's

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the thing. So I think what happens is we go and

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a lot of people do this, right? And I, I've been

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thinking about this with Ever and meaning to

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like bring it up because it's kind of like for

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certain dogs, when we, when we're. It's almost

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like we're not consciously, we're using arousal,

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but we're really masking the underlying issue,

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right? So I realized last year at some point,

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I was like, okay, this is all great, this stuff

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I'm doing in training, but this is not how he

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is in the ring. Like I need to train him the

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way he is. In the ring. Exactly. And then I need

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to explain to him when you're in this state.

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This that's OK, but you still need to either

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push through and, you know, complete the task.

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Right. Or run out and run back, for example.

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Right. Right. I said, OK, so. I took him to a

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store and instead of bringing his meal and, you

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know, doing all these shenanigans, I just brought

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my usual stuff, warmed him up, pretended, did

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my pretend ring entrance, what I always do and

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like started working him. And he was exactly

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like in the ring. Right. Which I think there's

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several reasons for that. One is he just like

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ever. Not in life, but he desperately, desperately

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cares about being right. Doesn't matter that

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he never gets in trouble for making mistakes

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or anything like that. It is who he is. It's

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who Zeal was. Zeal wouldn't make a mistake. And

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I didn't even have to say anything because he's

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already going down a rabbit hole. Yeah, that's

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ever. Right? So I would never say to him, like,

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you're wrong. With Zest, like, it's just, it's

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who he is. That's his personality. They don't

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want to be wrong. Okay, which means they're trying

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really hard. Well, what happens as a human when

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we try really hard? Well, we concentrate really

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hard and then we tend to slow down, right? Now

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add in distractions. So if we were recording

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this podcast, like at Starbucks, I'm already

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concentrating hard. I would have to concentrate

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so much harder. I would probably be talking slower.

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I would lose train of my thought because it's

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distracting. Right. Right. Right. Part of what

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happens with zest is like, and if you think about

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it is he's basically doing calculus in a distracting

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environment. Right. And so as ever. So now they

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really care about being right. They don't want

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to be wrong. There's stuff going on around them.

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They're like, oh, God, I have to tune it out.

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Maybe they're not. Maybe they're worried about

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it. Maybe they're not. But either way, they have

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to think extra hard, which is going to slow them

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down. Right. And then I think what had happened

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was like I'm rehearsing so much in a different

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arousal state that I'm really not rehearsing

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and giving him information in the state. That

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he is in when he's in a trial. Correct. Well,

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instead of in that moment when he starts to get

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flat or whatever you want to call it, I really

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shouldn't even label it when he gets the way

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I don't like him to be, which because maybe he's

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not even being flat. Maybe it's just a matter

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of like intense concentration. Right. Right.

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That's where I have to give him information.

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Right. This is where I have to say to him. Good

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job, buddy. That's correct. Even though there's

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this little piece inside me, that's like, Oh,

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I freaking hate that. I wish he did it faster,

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whatever that like evil monster inside me. Right.

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So, and that doesn't mean that I'm still not

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on some level striving for that, but I just need

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to approach it very differently. And in the meantime,

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and maybe forever, who knows, I have to accept.

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who he is and that this is how he works when

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he's in this situation specifically. So when

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he's in that situation working like that, that's

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when I'm saying to him, okay, buddy, that was

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good. Or, oh, buddy, that's not correct. Let's

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try that again. I don't care if it's not fast,

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but it has to be correct. So now I'm working

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him. In the state that he is actually in. Right.

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Now, does that mean I never do player toys or

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food? No. Does that mean I wasn't in my garage

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the other day doing like playing around with

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like doing steady, like silence to explosion

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and blah, blah, blah. Yep. I was. Will that stuff

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work at some point? Possibly. Right. Why? It's

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why I'm endlessly tinkering because I always

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want to see, can I figure it out? But at the

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end of the day, I've been thinking an enormous

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amount about the fact that like there is nothing

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wrong. I have to write my head defining him trotting

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back as being wrong. Right. And that's the same

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boat. I I've been in with ever and it and it

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was so crazy because I had been in Syracuse last

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weekend and I was going through all this with

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ever like it was like this roller coaster ride

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of three days of trialing with her. And like

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I was like, you know, it's good. It's not good.

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It's good. It's not going good. Like it was not

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it was it was horrible. And then driving home,

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I'm just like I didn't. Cause you were like,

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how's it going? What's going on? And a couple

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other people. And I was like, I'm just, I need,

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I don't even know how to answer it because I

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was like, I need to sit, I need to figure this

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out. Like I, there's, there is a way to fix this

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with this dog. Like, not that I'm looking for

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like the magic pill, but I'm like, I'm doing

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something wrong. Like I'm approaching this. incorrectly.

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And so I drove four hours thinking about it,

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going back with all the things. And then I came

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to the conclusion at the end of my ride and I

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was just like, I have to be okay with her operating

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like that. And I need to, like you said, like

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I need to like train her. when she's like that,

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like I need to train her in those moments to,

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to try to like be able to work through it. Like,

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so that in the ring I can work through it. Cause

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what happens with ever is like, she'll start

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to get worried. Like literally I can see it on

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her face. Like, and I can't help, but get annoyed

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in my head. Like it's in my head. I can't help

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it. I'm like, Oh God. Or I start to panic. Like

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it's hard not to go there. And then I would be

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like, all right, I would try to bring her up.

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Like, let me try to bring her up. Let me try

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to bring her up. Sometimes that would work and

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I would get her to come up a little bit, but,

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or she'd come up and bark at me. So that was

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an issue because that's what happens in training.

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Like I get her up and we bark and we go crazy

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and we bark, but I can't have her barking in

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the ring. So I'm just trying to figure out. I

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need to, I need to, it's, I don't even know how

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to explain it. It's like, I'm trying to find

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that optimal balance, you know? So the other

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day, so I got home. Well, hold on. Let me just

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backtrack for a second. Cause what you told me

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earlier, which I think is super important is

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that tell them what you've been doing with her

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since the classic, because if you really think

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about it, Yeah, right, right, right. It's raining,

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but it's nothing like in the rain. Right. Nothing.

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So since I've been home from the classic, like

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absentmindedly not paying attention. And this

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was like when I was like driving home from Syracuse.

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I'm like, you're a fucking dumbass. Like everything

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you've been doing for the past four weeks since

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the classic has been nothing but stupid jackpot

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motivational games. Like literally. I'm not paying

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attention enough to making sure that I'm putting

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in, mindfully putting in like formal picture.

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You know, I've just been doing tons of motivational

00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:52.759
stuff. So then I go to Syracuse and like, that's

00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:55.460
the thing. Like I can't get her. We do, we do

00:16:55.460 --> 00:16:58.460
tons of. tons of stuff in the in our training

00:16:58.460 --> 00:17:02.039
where she's spinning and barking and then like

00:17:02.039 --> 00:17:04.559
like she'll do something great and i'm like yes

00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:07.160
you know how we are like when we're doing motivational

00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:09.960
training like well we can't fucking do that at

00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:13.880
the trial right so well it's different but also

00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:21.200
like some dogs can't concentrate in that state

00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:25.150
of arousal right right right zeal when he was

00:17:25.150 --> 00:17:28.549
learning i used to try and make him because that's

00:17:28.549 --> 00:17:30.430
how we did it back in the day right you teach

00:17:30.430 --> 00:17:32.630
everything fast because if you don't teach it

00:17:32.630 --> 00:17:35.130
fast they're going to be slow and zeal was like

00:17:35.130 --> 00:17:38.349
nope can't do it nope can't do it like he refused

00:17:38.349 --> 00:17:42.309
he's like i cannot learn in that state and i

00:17:42.309 --> 00:17:44.230
remember i don't know i may have said this on

00:17:44.230 --> 00:17:47.829
the podcast before like i was at a store once

00:17:47.829 --> 00:17:50.950
doing signals and they were so hard for zest

00:17:50.950 --> 00:17:53.430
back in the day like so hard because he hated

00:17:53.430 --> 00:17:56.309
being out there by himself so i'm like tugging

00:17:56.309 --> 00:17:59.750
tugging and then i'm like let's do signals and

00:17:59.750 --> 00:18:02.269
then he did it and i'm like toy and he's like

00:18:02.269 --> 00:18:06.529
no i don't want the toy yeah yeah like why don't

00:18:06.529 --> 00:18:08.990
you want the toy toy and he's like nope i don't

00:18:08.990 --> 00:18:12.250
want the toy and i'm like shit is he sick like

00:18:12.250 --> 00:18:14.150
are you okay like i'm trying to figure it out

00:18:14.150 --> 00:18:18.390
and he's like no I'm good. And I'm like, huh?

00:18:18.670 --> 00:18:20.750
I'm like, all right, let me do another rep and

00:18:20.750 --> 00:18:23.690
see like, see if I think he's like not feeling

00:18:23.690 --> 00:18:26.069
good. Like what's going on? Does the rep beautifully?

00:18:26.210 --> 00:18:30.230
I go, yes. He wanted food because he's in lower

00:18:30.230 --> 00:18:34.009
arousal with food. And he's like, I cannot do

00:18:34.009 --> 00:18:37.609
this activity that requires, that is so hard

00:18:37.609 --> 00:18:40.670
for me and requires so much concentration and

00:18:40.670 --> 00:18:44.880
effort. I can't do it. in high arousal so like

00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:46.960
when you were saying how in the ring because

00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:49.460
i had this with zeal and it's the same with zask

00:18:49.460 --> 00:18:54.859
he goes flat and i start going come up come up

00:18:54.859 --> 00:19:00.319
come up and he's like no no no coming up can't

00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:04.119
do it and then i'm like shit right and then what

00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:07.720
i did with zeal i learned was i did the complete

00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:10.819
something that's completely counterintuitive

00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:15.799
which is he would get nervous and I would give

00:19:15.799 --> 00:19:20.460
him my calm cue. Say what? He would be flat and

00:19:20.460 --> 00:19:24.420
nervous. Well, the calm cue was actually reassuring

00:19:24.420 --> 00:19:27.180
and he's anxious. So it was helping control his

00:19:27.180 --> 00:19:31.200
anxiety, right? And I was basically, it was saying

00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:33.339
to him, it's all right, buddy, you're fine. I

00:19:33.339 --> 00:19:35.640
got you. You're good, dude. You're fine. And

00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:40.000
it worked like a freaking charm. And that's exactly

00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:43.140
what I'm doing with Ever. Like, because when

00:19:43.140 --> 00:19:47.420
she goes down like that, I know she then goes,

00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:50.160
oh God, I know I'm not supposed to be acting

00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:53.380
like this because I'm sure she's felt my annoyance

00:19:53.380 --> 00:19:57.059
and like aggravation with that. And it just makes

00:19:57.059 --> 00:20:01.779
everything worse with her. So now I am giving

00:20:01.779 --> 00:20:04.680
her like, this is what I'm like starting to put

00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:08.710
in my training. Like when. she starts to look

00:20:08.710 --> 00:20:12.809
a little worried, right? I am like, you know,

00:20:12.809 --> 00:20:14.430
we're just trying, we're trying all different

00:20:14.430 --> 00:20:16.390
kinds of things. Like this is what we do. We

00:20:16.390 --> 00:20:18.450
got to, you know, this is what we do in training.

00:20:18.450 --> 00:20:23.230
Right. So I'm like, I bend down to her and I

00:20:23.230 --> 00:20:30.130
like pet her and she is like, fucking thank fucking

00:20:30.130 --> 00:20:34.170
God. Like I keep like the relief on this dog

00:20:34.170 --> 00:20:36.980
just for me to bend down for that. quick second

00:20:36.980 --> 00:20:40.099
and just pet her and let her go through my legs,

00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:44.700
I can feel she's like, thank fucking God. And

00:20:44.700 --> 00:20:47.880
then I go, okay, set up. And she's like, okay,

00:20:47.940 --> 00:20:51.599
good. I'm ready now. Like it's been, I don't

00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:53.660
know if it's going to hold up. I'm trialing tomorrow.

00:20:54.059 --> 00:20:56.180
So I'm going to let y 'all fucking know, but

00:20:56.180 --> 00:21:00.119
it's okay. Do you know what I'm saying? Yes.

00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:03.880
And so in essence, I do think sometimes like

00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:07.490
they, even though I'm saying, zesty bounce bounce

00:21:07.490 --> 00:21:11.009
like to him there's probably like a little bit

00:21:11.009 --> 00:21:13.369
of there could be some pressure in there that

00:21:13.369 --> 00:21:16.789
he's feeling whether or not we intend it or not

00:21:17.500 --> 00:21:20.039
They could be feeling pressure and then they

00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:22.819
feel, then that's a negative thing to them. Right.

00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:26.559
Well, especially these dogs, because they care

00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:29.259
so much about being right. So if he can't bounce

00:21:29.259 --> 00:21:31.220
in the moment, he's going to go, Oh fuck, I can't

00:21:31.220 --> 00:21:34.140
do it. Oh fuck, I'm making a mistake again. We're

00:21:34.140 --> 00:21:37.160
saying it's okay. You're fine. You're doing a

00:21:37.160 --> 00:21:40.460
good job. It's all good. Let's just keep going.

00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:45.980
Right. And move on. Exactly. You know, look.

00:21:46.490 --> 00:21:49.710
Will it work tomorrow? Maybe, maybe not because

00:21:49.710 --> 00:21:52.990
you just started doing that, right? Like we have

00:21:52.990 --> 00:21:57.089
to be fair and say, okay, like maybe it will

00:21:57.089 --> 00:21:59.630
work right away, but maybe we just need more

00:21:59.630 --> 00:22:03.430
time to put, you know, put that in training and

00:22:03.430 --> 00:22:07.490
make that part of a chain, right? Because like

00:22:07.490 --> 00:22:12.240
what I found with zest at the time too was. When

00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:14.920
the chain was a little longer, he would start

00:22:14.920 --> 00:22:17.359
to get worried. Like, oh God, am I doing everything

00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:20.119
okay? Am I doing everything right? And I would

00:22:20.119 --> 00:22:21.740
just have to be like, yeah, buddy, you're doing

00:22:21.740 --> 00:22:25.859
good, really good. You know, you're okay. Sometimes

00:22:25.859 --> 00:22:28.579
they just need us to just say, it's all good.

00:22:28.900 --> 00:22:32.940
You're fine. Let's keep going, right? Rather

00:22:32.940 --> 00:22:38.140
than us trying so hard to say, come on, bounce,

00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:44.000
you know, whatever cues we use. to get them up

00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:48.019
because we want them up. And I, you know, these

00:22:48.019 --> 00:22:54.420
dogs may or may not ever be those super flashy

00:22:54.420 --> 00:22:58.579
dogs that look like they're having a blast in

00:22:58.579 --> 00:23:02.259
the ring, not because they're necessarily miserable,

00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:07.759
but because they're trying so hard. Right, right.

00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:12.009
They're trying so hard. And it doesn't matter

00:23:12.009 --> 00:23:17.109
like how much I set my training up so that they're

00:23:17.109 --> 00:23:19.430
successful and that they're right. And that I'm

00:23:19.430 --> 00:23:21.410
building confidence and I'm, we're like, you're

00:23:21.410 --> 00:23:25.690
great. You're doing amazing. Like, um, I do think

00:23:25.690 --> 00:23:29.329
like over time, I do see Zesty getting better

00:23:29.329 --> 00:23:35.289
over time. Right. But like at some point I just

00:23:35.289 --> 00:23:39.859
have to be like, it's okay. Like, you know, you,

00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:43.660
you tried it back from your articles. It's fine.

00:23:43.740 --> 00:23:46.900
Like it's fine. Just because I want you to run

00:23:46.900 --> 00:23:49.039
and then bounce and then your ears to be like,

00:23:49.059 --> 00:23:53.400
this is how you do it, you know, in this environment.

00:23:54.039 --> 00:23:56.859
And again, it's not like we're not going to keep

00:23:56.859 --> 00:23:59.279
trying to motivate and keep it fun and blah,

00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:03.579
blah, blah. But, um, and there's also, like I

00:24:03.579 --> 00:24:09.049
said, there's value to them because We were taught

00:24:09.049 --> 00:24:12.230
back in the day, and that's still kind of a thing,

00:24:12.410 --> 00:24:16.609
right? Because, again, yay social media, right?

00:24:16.710 --> 00:24:21.490
All you see, you don't see videos of dogs doing

00:24:21.490 --> 00:24:26.329
workman -like work, right? You see dogs flying

00:24:26.329 --> 00:24:30.549
fast. throwing themselves to the ground, leaping

00:24:30.549 --> 00:24:33.150
into a stand, spinning, jumping. That's sexy.

00:24:33.250 --> 00:24:36.269
It's fancy. And then everybody feels like if

00:24:36.269 --> 00:24:39.509
we don't have that, we're failing, right? Like

00:24:39.509 --> 00:24:42.490
our dog sucks. It's sucky. Like I just went through

00:24:42.490 --> 00:24:44.849
this with a student. It's not the first time,

00:24:44.910 --> 00:24:50.930
right? She has a dog very similar to Zesty. Cares.

00:24:51.450 --> 00:24:54.730
This poor woman turns herself inside out for

00:24:54.730 --> 00:24:58.150
a happy dog, right? And the dog's very serious

00:24:58.150 --> 00:25:02.730
and it's very thoughtful and it does not want

00:25:02.730 --> 00:25:08.049
to be wrong. And all she's doing in a way inadvertently

00:25:08.049 --> 00:25:11.230
is muddying the waters for the dog, right? And

00:25:11.230 --> 00:25:15.829
making herself so frustrated because you feel

00:25:15.829 --> 00:25:19.029
like a failure because you're not making your

00:25:19.029 --> 00:25:22.940
dog, quote unquote. happy happy the reality is

00:25:22.940 --> 00:25:27.180
based on the breed based on the dog's personality

00:25:27.180 --> 00:25:32.079
based on who this dog is it is doing the best

00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:36.740
it can right and that is the way it looks and

00:25:36.740 --> 00:25:39.680
it's not wrong and it doesn't mean the dog is

00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:43.460
unhappy or the dog is miserable or she's a bad

00:25:43.460 --> 00:25:46.880
trainer or the training's not fun that's just

00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:51.759
who the dog that dog is yeah yeah That is. And

00:25:51.759 --> 00:25:55.420
there are. I mean, there is. I mean, there's

00:25:55.420 --> 00:25:58.660
there's a couple dogs out there, one in particular,

00:25:59.019 --> 00:26:03.160
you know, that's got like literally like 37 on

00:26:03.160 --> 00:26:08.200
it. And if you and the dog like. Is just clocks

00:26:08.200 --> 00:26:11.759
around the ring and wins because it just does

00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:15.680
its job and it's not flashy and it's not fast,

00:26:15.880 --> 00:26:20.289
you know, and. that's just who the dog is. Like,

00:26:20.289 --> 00:26:25.109
that's just who the dog is. And it's our reading

00:26:25.109 --> 00:26:29.029
too. It's like in our mind, we have, I know I

00:26:29.029 --> 00:26:33.509
do. I'll speak for myself. I have an image that

00:26:33.509 --> 00:26:37.230
if my dog is, this is how my dog looks when it's

00:26:37.230 --> 00:26:40.630
quote unquote happy. And that's how I want it

00:26:40.630 --> 00:26:44.789
to look in the ring. Yep. If it doesn't look

00:26:44.789 --> 00:26:49.279
like that, it is. Unhappy, therefore I failed.

00:26:49.380 --> 00:26:53.339
But maybe my dog is not unhappy. Maybe my dog

00:26:53.339 --> 00:26:59.160
is just no different than when I'm in the ring

00:26:59.160 --> 00:27:06.180
and I look pissed off. I'm not. No, I know you're

00:27:06.180 --> 00:27:09.839
not. I know you're not. But try to convince other

00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:12.819
people of that. I'm sure they wouldn't believe

00:27:12.819 --> 00:27:15.829
it because that is absolutely how I look. When

00:27:15.829 --> 00:27:19.390
I'm concentrating really hard, really hard. Right.

00:27:19.509 --> 00:27:23.109
So maybe part of this is we're misinterpreting.

00:27:23.109 --> 00:27:27.109
Like we have created this absolute happy, not

00:27:27.109 --> 00:27:30.769
happy. And that's the thing. Like, so when I'm

00:27:30.769 --> 00:27:32.730
standing there and I see ever out there at the

00:27:32.730 --> 00:27:36.309
article pile. Right. And she's like, literally.

00:27:38.890 --> 00:27:40.630
I don't even know how to explain it. I mean,

00:27:40.650 --> 00:27:43.690
literally tiptoeing through the pile. Like, she's

00:27:43.690 --> 00:27:46.910
working. She goes to each one. Like, it is so

00:27:46.910 --> 00:27:51.650
painfully slow. And I'm in my head. I'm like,

00:27:51.750 --> 00:27:56.049
Jesus fucking Christ. It's hard not to, but like

00:27:56.049 --> 00:27:58.849
the past couple of days I sent her out to her

00:27:58.849 --> 00:28:03.150
articles and I'm just like, this is how my dog

00:28:03.150 --> 00:28:06.990
sends her articles. This is how she works her

00:28:06.990 --> 00:28:11.630
articles. Will it get better? Maybe. But as long

00:28:11.630 --> 00:28:14.369
as she does her job and brings it back and this

00:28:14.369 --> 00:28:18.309
is how she does it, it's fine. Like I, that's

00:28:18.309 --> 00:28:19.769
what, you know, like these are the things I'm

00:28:19.769 --> 00:28:26.240
trying to get in my head. And I can't like exude

00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:29.359
any of those emotions because she's going to

00:28:29.359 --> 00:28:32.440
pick up on it. Like the dog reads my face. Like,

00:28:32.440 --> 00:28:35.220
like the second she comes back for brunch, she's

00:28:35.220 --> 00:28:37.980
looking at me and I can tell like she's scanning

00:28:37.980 --> 00:28:40.099
for any sort of like emotional disappointment

00:28:40.099 --> 00:28:45.460
in my face. Yeah. So it's like, it's just a mind

00:28:45.460 --> 00:28:48.779
shift. Right. And it's hard. Like it's really

00:28:48.779 --> 00:28:52.990
hard. And I do think like. with the whole arousal

00:28:52.990 --> 00:28:56.250
thing too like a lot of times we're trying so

00:28:56.250 --> 00:28:59.630
hard and I see a lot of people do this like the

00:28:59.630 --> 00:29:03.509
minute they see something that they don't like

00:29:03.509 --> 00:29:05.390
with their dog or they're not sure what their

00:29:05.390 --> 00:29:07.549
dog or the dog looks slightly uncomfortable grab

00:29:07.549 --> 00:29:10.809
the toy make the toy friend make the dog frantic

00:29:10.809 --> 00:29:15.210
and then but in essence I think what we're a

00:29:15.210 --> 00:29:18.759
lot of times doing is we're just masking what's

00:29:18.759 --> 00:29:22.900
underneath it. We're not really addressing the

00:29:22.900 --> 00:29:27.019
entity and we're not meeting the dog where the

00:29:27.019 --> 00:29:32.339
dog is. We're trying to force the dog to be something

00:29:32.339 --> 00:29:35.119
and do something that they're not comfortable

00:29:35.119 --> 00:29:40.160
doing. So the irony is in our attempt to make

00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:44.059
the dog happy and comfortable, we're probably

00:29:44.059 --> 00:29:48.819
making it uncomfortable. Right. Right. And that's

00:29:48.819 --> 00:29:52.119
what causes like the failure, like for real.

00:29:52.859 --> 00:29:57.640
It is. It does. Like, that's what I like. That's

00:29:57.640 --> 00:30:00.259
what's going on right now with ever. And I like,

00:30:00.279 --> 00:30:02.960
that's what I'm trying to work through for sure.

00:30:03.259 --> 00:30:06.400
And like all the things, you know, and that's

00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:09.380
the thing, like, you know, even went like, so

00:30:09.380 --> 00:30:12.509
the past couple of days of training, like. I'm

00:30:12.509 --> 00:30:15.609
trying to also like do everything. I want to

00:30:15.609 --> 00:30:19.930
like replicate so much that like all of my, I

00:30:19.930 --> 00:30:22.730
want to be able to tell her how right and how

00:30:22.730 --> 00:30:27.930
good she's being in a legal way and in a bridge

00:30:27.930 --> 00:30:30.690
version of it where I don't have, I can't use

00:30:30.690 --> 00:30:33.630
a reinforcer. You know what I mean? Like, that's

00:30:33.630 --> 00:30:37.450
my other thing is like, like. Like, my new thing

00:30:37.450 --> 00:30:40.210
is, like, I'm doing this, like, wow. Like, that's

00:30:40.210 --> 00:30:42.170
like that. Remember we talked about that? Like,

00:30:42.230 --> 00:30:47.329
coming up with a word. Yeah. As a gambling cue

00:30:47.329 --> 00:30:51.549
or whatever. Yeah. And that, like, that really

00:30:51.549 --> 00:30:53.930
has helped. I mean, in the past three or four

00:30:53.930 --> 00:31:00.299
days even. And being able to like tell her you're

00:31:00.299 --> 00:31:02.319
on the right track. It doesn't matter that you

00:31:02.319 --> 00:31:04.680
were a little slow. You're doing fine. And she's

00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:07.740
like, I'm seeing like this dog is like, oh God,

00:31:07.819 --> 00:31:11.720
thank God. Thank God you're okay with that. I

00:31:11.720 --> 00:31:14.920
think she was like, that was like half our problem

00:31:14.920 --> 00:31:18.259
was like she, she was interpreting when she went,

00:31:18.259 --> 00:31:22.940
when she went down like that, then she was attaching

00:31:22.940 --> 00:31:26.190
like, I must be, this, this is wrong. And that's

00:31:26.190 --> 00:31:27.930
when, like, it would just go spiral downward.

00:31:28.109 --> 00:31:31.970
And that's when we'll fail an exercise. Because

00:31:31.970 --> 00:31:36.789
instinct is, come on, come up, bring the dog

00:31:36.789 --> 00:31:40.309
up, bring the dog up. Our instinct is not to

00:31:40.309 --> 00:31:45.329
say, good dog. That's it. You're fine. Wait,

00:31:45.490 --> 00:31:47.430
what do you mean you're fine? You just did that

00:31:47.430 --> 00:31:51.349
slow as molasses. I hated it. Right? So, no,

00:31:51.710 --> 00:31:56.869
like, it's good dog. that was really good. Good

00:31:56.869 --> 00:32:01.009
job. Let's go. Like maybe that's, it doesn't

00:32:01.009 --> 00:32:02.970
have to be any more complicated than that. Right.

00:32:03.049 --> 00:32:05.910
That's what I did with zeal at the, when I finally

00:32:05.910 --> 00:32:10.029
figured it all out, I would just look down exercise

00:32:10.029 --> 00:32:14.390
finish and I would just go, good boy. Yeah. Boy.

00:32:15.130 --> 00:32:17.829
Right. And like hold his head. And then I'd move

00:32:17.829 --> 00:32:20.750
to the next position. If I sat him down and he

00:32:20.750 --> 00:32:24.410
was like, I just squeeze his head and I'd go.

00:32:25.560 --> 00:32:30.980
good good dog and even Zaina sometimes I'll see

00:32:30.980 --> 00:32:33.819
in her face she's like she gets a little worried

00:32:33.819 --> 00:32:36.059
or stressy something all of a sudden bothers

00:32:36.059 --> 00:32:40.000
her right and in that moment I used to do all

00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:42.440
this other stuff at that no I just go good girl

00:32:42.440 --> 00:32:46.619
good boom she instant it's fascinating she instantly

00:32:46.619 --> 00:32:49.720
slaps out of it yeah because they're like oh

00:32:49.720 --> 00:32:54.180
good thank god like that's a good girl Good girl.

00:32:54.319 --> 00:32:58.359
Literally, that is all I do. And she goes, OK.

00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:02.259
And then, boom, she's back and off we go. And

00:33:02.259 --> 00:33:04.680
I continue on as if nothing ever happened. Right.

00:33:04.900 --> 00:33:10.579
So. That's what I think. And that's what I did

00:33:10.579 --> 00:33:14.079
with Zeal. I mean, I'm sorry, Zesty, like I showed

00:33:14.079 --> 00:33:17.539
a couple of times or whatever. So this the next

00:33:17.539 --> 00:33:24.759
the first class, you know, I hated. And then

00:33:24.759 --> 00:33:27.259
the second class, I was like, all right, stop

00:33:27.259 --> 00:33:29.980
trying so hard, just whatever. And I was just

00:33:29.980 --> 00:33:33.279
like, right here. Good boy. That's it. That's

00:33:33.279 --> 00:33:36.039
all we did right here. Pay attention. Good boy.

00:33:36.099 --> 00:33:38.819
Right. Because the other tricky thing is with

00:33:38.819 --> 00:33:44.019
Zesty. He looks he looks like he's going to die

00:33:44.019 --> 00:33:49.259
in two separate scenarios. One, when he's trying

00:33:49.259 --> 00:33:51.720
so hard that smoke's coming out of his ears.

00:33:52.349 --> 00:33:55.470
And the other though, is if he's distracted and

00:33:55.470 --> 00:34:00.750
kind of not giving me as much effort to ignore

00:34:00.750 --> 00:34:04.910
the distractions as he should. But in that situation,

00:34:05.029 --> 00:34:08.010
like I never interpreted as that because I'm

00:34:08.010 --> 00:34:11.429
like, oh, poor dog. Oh, he's, are you okay, buddy?

00:34:11.510 --> 00:34:15.349
Oh God. You know, and sometimes I just need to

00:34:15.349 --> 00:34:18.429
be like, dude, leave that alone, pay attention.

00:34:18.710 --> 00:34:20.730
And then he's like, oh, okay. And I'm like, really?

00:34:21.480 --> 00:34:25.119
You just faked me out. Like totally tricked me.

00:34:25.400 --> 00:34:27.900
Right. So, but I don't even have to do anything

00:34:27.900 --> 00:34:29.739
crazy with him. Cause again, at the end of the

00:34:29.739 --> 00:34:31.739
day, he wants to be right. Right. So I just go

00:34:31.739 --> 00:34:35.059
right here, pay attention. And then I go, good,

00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:38.920
that's it. And then that's what I did the second

00:34:38.920 --> 00:34:43.219
class. And the last and the next day, it wasn't

00:34:43.219 --> 00:34:45.039
the exact, whatever. The next time I went in

00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:48.000
the ring and it was night and day better. Right.

00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:53.039
And. Did he run back on every single exercise?

00:34:53.460 --> 00:34:58.059
No. Do I wish he did? Yes. Do I accept that he

00:34:58.059 --> 00:35:01.539
didn't? yes right did i go back and look at my

00:35:01.539 --> 00:35:04.480
videos and you know what zeal trotted some back

00:35:04.480 --> 00:35:07.699
sometimes not all the time but sometimes tyler

00:35:07.699 --> 00:35:10.559
always tried it back from articles in part and

00:35:10.559 --> 00:35:12.340
i think he trotted to them too because he was

00:35:12.340 --> 00:35:16.619
so big and the article was never that far yeah

00:35:16.619 --> 00:35:20.159
like why never crossed my mind like oh i wish

00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:24.019
he would run right like but at some point i decided

00:35:24.019 --> 00:35:28.949
the dog should run and the dog like am And same

00:35:28.949 --> 00:35:31.550
with the articles like zesty. I mean, I started

00:35:31.550 --> 00:35:35.710
doing nose work with him. He is a machine. Like,

00:35:35.750 --> 00:35:39.389
it's fascinating. Does he do his articles like

00:35:39.389 --> 00:35:42.750
that? No. I'm like, what are you doing? Sniff

00:35:42.750 --> 00:35:45.250
each same like sniff each article. I'm like,

00:35:45.289 --> 00:35:49.050
you don't need to do that. Right. I've done thousands

00:35:49.050 --> 00:35:51.250
of games, like a million things. He goes in the

00:35:51.250 --> 00:35:55.989
ring, runs, sometimes, sometimes shots out. does

00:35:55.989 --> 00:35:58.750
his articles. I'm like, Oh my God, chats back.

00:35:58.849 --> 00:36:02.809
Right. So maybe that's how he'll do his articles

00:36:02.809 --> 00:36:05.369
forever. And maybe I just have to accept that.

00:36:05.409 --> 00:36:08.150
Like he doesn't do them wrong. He doesn't pick

00:36:08.150 --> 00:36:10.449
up the wrong article. He doesn't fumble. He does

00:36:10.449 --> 00:36:13.949
nothing wrong. Right. Like there's nothing scorable

00:36:13.949 --> 00:36:18.909
in what he's doing. It's just like, and so I

00:36:18.909 --> 00:36:21.630
stopped taking pressure off that. Like, you know,

00:36:21.630 --> 00:36:24.250
I have to mentally take pressure off myself.

00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:29.340
And him, I have to stop in the ring. I have to

00:36:29.340 --> 00:36:33.519
just be like, good boy, that's good. In training,

00:36:33.719 --> 00:36:38.320
sure, I can still try, but maybe it'll change

00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:42.079
down the road. Maybe it won't, right? But either

00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:46.219
way, it's not, I think the big takeaway is it's

00:36:46.219 --> 00:36:49.179
not that he's miserable or unhappy or that we're

00:36:49.179 --> 00:36:53.659
failing as trainers. Because we care that our

00:36:53.659 --> 00:36:56.440
dogs, whether or not our dogs are happy. Right.

00:36:57.619 --> 00:37:01.119
Sometimes it's just who the dog is. I think so,

00:37:01.179 --> 00:37:03.400
too. I think that's a big piece of it, because

00:37:03.400 --> 00:37:07.159
I think, you know, we definitely we inadvertently

00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:09.460
put the pressure on when we want it to be a certain

00:37:09.460 --> 00:37:11.780
way. And then we get like a little bit of, you

00:37:11.780 --> 00:37:15.360
know, that like obsession thing going where like.

00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:18.199
I can figure this out. I can make it faster.

00:37:18.380 --> 00:37:20.820
What else can I do? What solution is out there

00:37:20.820 --> 00:37:24.780
to make the dog run out, run back? And, you know,

00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:28.780
absentmindedly we're just kind of putting added

00:37:28.780 --> 00:37:32.280
pressure on, you know, like I, even today, like

00:37:32.280 --> 00:37:36.940
I trained ever and I, I did, I like had two sets

00:37:36.940 --> 00:37:40.159
of piles of articles out. So I would go, I went

00:37:40.159 --> 00:37:43.380
and did two articles, normal stuff, you know,

00:37:43.380 --> 00:37:48.079
her normal. trotted out ears back did her little

00:37:48.079 --> 00:37:51.900
dainty sniff sniff sniff sniff sniff grabs the

00:37:51.900 --> 00:37:54.719
article and like she picks the article up like

00:37:54.719 --> 00:37:57.659
she doesn't even fly back like she picks it up

00:37:57.659 --> 00:37:59.800
like there's always a second of like oh my god

00:37:59.800 --> 00:38:02.719
is she gonna fucking come back and then she does

00:38:02.719 --> 00:38:07.400
and she trots back hits her front I take it finish

00:38:07.400 --> 00:38:10.940
boom like nothing is scorable about it but of

00:38:10.940 --> 00:38:13.349
course like in our heads we're like Oh my God,

00:38:13.369 --> 00:38:15.289
the dog. And I've literally been at trials and

00:38:15.289 --> 00:38:17.050
people come out, they're like, what's up with

00:38:17.050 --> 00:38:21.070
your articles? And I'm like, I've never corrected

00:38:21.070 --> 00:38:23.269
the dog in an article pile. Like, I don't know

00:38:23.269 --> 00:38:25.590
what to say. That's the thing, right? Like we've

00:38:25.590 --> 00:38:28.090
never corrected them. We don't get on their case.

00:38:28.210 --> 00:38:30.489
We don't harass them. We don't harass them for

00:38:30.489 --> 00:38:33.489
frantic. We do everything motivational. And I

00:38:33.489 --> 00:38:36.010
think part of it then, like, well, I know for

00:38:36.010 --> 00:38:38.110
me, that's part of it. I'll be in the ring and

00:38:38.110 --> 00:38:40.489
I'm like, people are going to think like, what

00:38:40.489 --> 00:38:44.389
the hell? I beat my dog or that I harassed the

00:38:44.389 --> 00:38:47.750
shit out of my dog or, you know, and I'm like,

00:38:47.750 --> 00:38:50.829
and it's like, I have to stop thinking like that.

00:38:50.849 --> 00:38:55.489
Like, I just have to think about it. It's who

00:38:55.489 --> 00:38:59.489
they are. And how is this dog working? And like,

00:38:59.530 --> 00:39:03.750
even in training, like, uh, it's, it's so crazy.

00:39:03.769 --> 00:39:07.190
Like, thank God, like the, um, I, the two people

00:39:07.190 --> 00:39:09.710
I train with now, like once or twice a week.

00:39:10.570 --> 00:39:13.690
And like, I don't know, the other day I was healing

00:39:13.690 --> 00:39:16.389
and I'm like, is his head high enough? I need

00:39:16.389 --> 00:39:18.070
to get his head higher. I don't know. And they

00:39:18.070 --> 00:39:22.010
both go, his head is very high. And I go, okay,

00:39:22.010 --> 00:39:25.030
I'm being crazy. Like that was the way of saying,

00:39:25.190 --> 00:39:31.829
like, don't. So, and I said to them, and cause

00:39:31.829 --> 00:39:34.190
I feel like I'm like, okay, I, I acknowledge

00:39:34.190 --> 00:39:37.150
out loud. I have a problem. Like, I'm always

00:39:37.150 --> 00:39:41.599
like, can it be better? Can I do more? They hold

00:39:41.599 --> 00:39:45.239
me accountable, right? That's good. It's fine.

00:39:45.460 --> 00:39:48.960
Like, it's okay. Like my dog runs to the go out

00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:51.960
at a child canters, like all the way out. No

00:39:51.960 --> 00:39:55.559
hint of slowing down, no hint of anticipation.

00:39:56.239 --> 00:39:59.059
And I'm like, is that fast enough? Like, is he

00:39:59.059 --> 00:40:03.300
going to start slowing down? I got my God, like,

00:40:03.420 --> 00:40:09.510
I know. And you know, I was thinking like, I

00:40:09.510 --> 00:40:13.110
don't know I like I so I did I did her article

00:40:13.110 --> 00:40:15.510
say and then I went I went and did some other

00:40:15.510 --> 00:40:17.210
stuff and then I went back to and I went to the

00:40:17.210 --> 00:40:20.829
other pile and the whole time I'm like every

00:40:20.829 --> 00:40:23.190
time she did one I'm like that was so good buddy

00:40:23.190 --> 00:40:26.409
wow lean down rubbed her she was like oh really

00:40:26.409 --> 00:40:30.050
oh good like all right so by the time I got to

00:40:30.050 --> 00:40:34.750
my like third or fourth article She was going

00:40:34.750 --> 00:40:38.030
out like I could see like the weight was lifted

00:40:38.030 --> 00:40:40.289
off this dog. She's trotting out like was she

00:40:40.289 --> 00:40:43.190
fast? No. But I could just tell she was like

00:40:43.190 --> 00:40:47.210
her tail wagged a little bit, went out, immediately

00:40:47.210 --> 00:40:50.590
found it, picked it up, trotted back super happy.

00:40:51.590 --> 00:40:55.409
And I feel like it's like the same. I feel like

00:40:55.409 --> 00:40:58.809
they feel it from us. Like it'd be like you walking

00:40:58.809 --> 00:41:02.429
in the room and I told you to like to go like.

00:41:03.050 --> 00:41:06.250
clean something and I'm like watching you do

00:41:06.250 --> 00:41:09.289
it and you turn around you're like why the fuck

00:41:09.289 --> 00:41:12.329
are you watching me like that am I doing it wrong

00:41:12.329 --> 00:41:21.269
we do to them yeah and I think right yeah they

00:41:21.269 --> 00:41:26.110
read that but I think that sometimes we're trying

00:41:26.110 --> 00:41:33.960
too hard like maybe she right Maybe to her, you

00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:38.519
just calmly saying, good girl, that was really

00:41:38.519 --> 00:41:43.260
nice. Maybe that's more reinforcing to her than

00:41:43.260 --> 00:41:46.159
you going, yes, and whipping out the cookies

00:41:46.159 --> 00:41:49.980
and putting her into a frenzy. Exactly. Maybe

00:41:49.980 --> 00:41:59.590
she doesn't find that as reinforcing. You just

00:41:59.590 --> 00:42:04.130
calmly saying to her, wow, ever. That was super.

00:42:04.210 --> 00:42:07.510
That was really good. Right. Like, cause we got

00:42:07.510 --> 00:42:11.849
caught up in our head that this is what dogs

00:42:11.849 --> 00:42:15.809
find reinforcing. But again, all dogs are not

00:42:15.809 --> 00:42:18.449
the same. Like I've had, I had a student once

00:42:18.449 --> 00:42:21.250
I would, it was the most fascinating thing I've

00:42:21.250 --> 00:42:27.460
ever seen. And so. um same thing she had a dog

00:42:27.460 --> 00:42:32.320
like it was just worry worry worry worry worry

00:42:32.320 --> 00:42:36.199
right she's very much like us very you know like

00:42:36.199 --> 00:42:40.400
high energy so she would do something with the

00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:46.579
dog and she'd go yes great girl and the dog would

00:42:46.579 --> 00:42:51.820
go oh god oh god oh god So sends me the videos,

00:42:51.880 --> 00:42:54.719
right? I go, all right. I go, I want you to praise

00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:57.599
her in silence. What do you mean in silence?

00:42:57.619 --> 00:43:00.579
In silence. Well, what do I do? And then people

00:43:00.579 --> 00:43:02.480
think they have to do like cartwheels and stuff.

00:43:02.519 --> 00:43:07.099
I go, no. Act exactly the same way as you would

00:43:07.099 --> 00:43:09.440
when you're talking. Just say the words in your

00:43:09.440 --> 00:43:12.059
head. Don't talk. Don't do anything different.

00:43:12.119 --> 00:43:16.320
Just don't talk. Night and freaking day. Unbelievable

00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:20.719
difference. Immediate. immediate not like after

00:43:20.719 --> 00:43:25.280
a few sessions like immediate yeah like so happy

00:43:25.280 --> 00:43:30.000
so relaxed so responded completely different

00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:34.320
so this whole time she thinks she's reinforcing

00:43:34.320 --> 00:43:37.960
the dog she's actually doing something the dog

00:43:37.960 --> 00:43:40.539
finds averse like not necessarily averse but

00:43:40.539 --> 00:43:44.599
uncomfortable yeah and she does something completely

00:43:44.599 --> 00:43:48.869
toned down and the dog's like oh I love this

00:43:48.869 --> 00:43:54.610
you're and the dog read that as praise so I do

00:43:54.610 --> 00:43:57.570
that a fair amount now because I feel like people

00:43:57.570 --> 00:44:02.429
try so hard and then that comes across as pitchy

00:44:02.429 --> 00:44:07.969
and pressure yeah no do it in silence and for

00:44:07.969 --> 00:44:11.070
a fair number of dogs I shouldn't say fair like

00:44:11.070 --> 00:44:15.190
quite a large number of dogs That makes a very

00:44:15.190 --> 00:44:19.269
significant difference. Yeah. And that's what

00:44:19.269 --> 00:44:21.610
I'm seeing in Ever too. Cause I'm like, I used

00:44:21.610 --> 00:44:24.610
to be like, yes, you know, bounce, blah, blah,

00:44:24.670 --> 00:44:27.650
blah. And like, she'd get high. She would like

00:44:27.650 --> 00:44:32.909
react to it, but. I don't know. Like now that

00:44:32.909 --> 00:44:36.389
I'm like doing this, like that was so good. What

00:44:36.389 --> 00:44:39.750
a good girl. And I bend down and I put my hands

00:44:39.750 --> 00:44:44.010
on her. She gets all gooey and loves that. Like

00:44:44.010 --> 00:44:47.550
I can just tell like she loves it, like loves

00:44:47.550 --> 00:44:50.510
it, loves it, loves it. And then like, I'm like,

00:44:50.610 --> 00:44:53.510
ready, buddy, let's go set up. And she's like,

00:44:53.590 --> 00:44:56.599
okay, I'm ready. again I don't know if this is

00:44:56.599 --> 00:44:58.699
gonna hold up but I'm definitely trying it because

00:44:58.699 --> 00:45:01.940
I'm feeling like she likes that so much better

00:45:01.940 --> 00:45:05.059
she's finding like relief in it she's finding

00:45:05.059 --> 00:45:10.079
that to be that communication of like oh everything's

00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:13.739
good I'm on I'm doing okay she just is feeling

00:45:13.739 --> 00:45:17.219
so much better by that so well it may just take

00:45:17.219 --> 00:45:21.679
some time because you're changing the picture

00:45:21.679 --> 00:45:26.789
right like and But you're so she's like, oh,

00:45:26.909 --> 00:45:30.489
we go in the ring and it's like this. And now

00:45:30.489 --> 00:45:33.769
you're changing it. So sometimes, depending on

00:45:33.769 --> 00:45:36.250
the dogs, if they're literal, they'll get a little

00:45:36.250 --> 00:45:39.349
confused. Like, wait, I'm not sure what's happening

00:45:39.349 --> 00:45:42.869
here. Like, it's different. Doesn't mean it's

00:45:42.869 --> 00:45:47.019
not going to work down the road. it may not work

00:45:47.019 --> 00:45:49.820
right away. Or maybe you'll see, maybe it will,

00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:53.719
like who knows, right? But because I do see like

00:45:53.719 --> 00:45:56.460
a lot of times with people, they try something

00:45:56.460 --> 00:46:00.360
and then it doesn't work right away. And they're

00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:02.900
like, it didn't work. Like I had this great,

00:46:03.039 --> 00:46:05.340
I told her, I really wish she would write a blog

00:46:05.340 --> 00:46:11.210
about it. One of my students. It's actually the

00:46:11.210 --> 00:46:13.110
same student I just talked about with this dog

00:46:13.110 --> 00:46:17.190
that was really nervous. And anyway, she had

00:46:17.190 --> 00:46:20.389
recently shown me a recent video of her at a

00:46:20.389 --> 00:46:24.230
trial. And I was like, holy, I like it was stunning

00:46:24.230 --> 00:46:27.690
the difference in the dog. Right. And I said,

00:46:27.690 --> 00:46:31.190
well, what did you do that was different? Well,

00:46:31.429 --> 00:46:35.719
a she did a whole list of things like it. You

00:46:35.719 --> 00:46:37.780
know, I was thinking like, oh, she's going to

00:46:37.780 --> 00:46:41.400
tell me I did X thing. Oh, no, no. It was a long

00:46:41.400 --> 00:46:45.559
list of things. And some of them she started

00:46:45.559 --> 00:46:48.300
like a year. She had been working on for over

00:46:48.300 --> 00:46:53.719
a year. Right. So all these things together worked

00:46:53.719 --> 00:46:58.300
profoundly, but it wasn't a quick fix, right?

00:46:58.420 --> 00:47:01.579
And I was like, this is such a good lesson that

00:47:01.579 --> 00:47:04.699
A, she's coming at it from a bunch of different

00:47:04.699 --> 00:47:09.260
angles. B, she's being creative and thinking

00:47:09.260 --> 00:47:13.360
outside the box. C, she's taking things and not

00:47:13.360 --> 00:47:15.679
just giving up on them. She's like, nope, I'm

00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:18.159
going to slowly, carefully work on this over

00:47:18.159 --> 00:47:22.869
a long period of time. um, you know, to see if

00:47:22.869 --> 00:47:27.329
I can change the impact. And, um, so it was just

00:47:27.329 --> 00:47:30.949
like such a good email. Like the whole thing,

00:47:30.949 --> 00:47:34.170
I was like, this is like, this is dog training

00:47:34.170 --> 00:47:38.010
in a nutshell, right? Like where you have to

00:47:38.010 --> 00:47:41.409
come at it from a bunch of different ways. You

00:47:41.409 --> 00:47:43.849
have to be willing to change. You have to be

00:47:43.849 --> 00:47:46.550
willing to try all these different things and

00:47:46.550 --> 00:47:51.659
try them. over a long period of time and not

00:47:51.659 --> 00:47:54.880
just throw it out the window right away. Cause

00:47:54.880 --> 00:47:58.460
it didn't work. Right. Right. Yeah. Well that,

00:47:58.559 --> 00:48:01.719
you know, and that's my thing. Like, like even

00:48:01.719 --> 00:48:04.360
this weekend, like tomorrow, like I'm going,

00:48:04.460 --> 00:48:06.780
uh, what is today? Where are we? Friday? Yeah.

00:48:06.820 --> 00:48:09.880
Tomorrow I'm trialing. So it's like. I don't

00:48:09.880 --> 00:48:11.980
even, I don't care about anything else. Like

00:48:11.980 --> 00:48:14.400
I'm going to like, I want to work through some

00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:16.860
of this. Like it's a, I just trialed Everlast

00:48:16.860 --> 00:48:20.340
weekend in a three -day trial. And I'm going

00:48:20.340 --> 00:48:22.880
to use this day as just, I want to work through

00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:25.219
some of this stuff. I want to see if I can like,

00:48:25.260 --> 00:48:28.039
see if I can help her in the ring with this new

00:48:28.039 --> 00:48:31.059
thing I'm doing. And I'm fine with whatever happens.

00:48:31.159 --> 00:48:34.300
Like I'm totally fine with it. So I'm, and I'm

00:48:34.300 --> 00:48:36.239
willing to take time with that. Like I'm willing

00:48:36.239 --> 00:48:39.039
to see, like if it doesn't work, if it. if it

00:48:39.039 --> 00:48:42.239
didn't didn't hold up I mean literally I've only

00:48:42.239 --> 00:48:44.280
been doing it for for this week since I've been

00:48:44.280 --> 00:48:47.840
back yeah I'm gonna keep going in the next trial

00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:50.719
and do the same thing like I am seeing it in

00:48:50.719 --> 00:48:53.260
training like I'm seeing it definitely work in

00:48:53.260 --> 00:48:57.219
training um so I gotta give it time for sure

00:48:57.219 --> 00:49:04.239
definitely yeah and you know I so god no I think

00:49:04.239 --> 00:49:07.110
there's so much here and it's all just really

00:49:07.110 --> 00:49:09.489
important like and I just wrote a blog on it

00:49:09.489 --> 00:49:12.250
too because you know every I think so many people

00:49:12.250 --> 00:49:15.510
struggle with this with like expectations that

00:49:15.510 --> 00:49:18.429
we put on ourselves that we put on ourselves

00:49:18.429 --> 00:49:22.110
that stuff we see on social media stuff like

00:49:22.110 --> 00:49:28.070
people say you know this um and then just you

00:49:28.070 --> 00:49:31.769
know different breeds like I I told this story

00:49:31.769 --> 00:49:37.329
in the blog like so my first uh lab that I competed

00:49:37.329 --> 00:49:43.449
with was a breed lab right and um so I knew I

00:49:43.449 --> 00:49:46.869
knew nothing and so I was teaching this dog a

00:49:46.869 --> 00:49:51.110
drop on recall right and like I'm in class this

00:49:51.110 --> 00:49:53.889
is decades ago and they're like why are you unhappy

00:49:53.889 --> 00:49:57.070
with that drop I'm like because I want him to

00:49:57.070 --> 00:50:01.929
drop like that border collie okay physically

00:50:04.719 --> 00:50:08.820
a clunky lab it cannot drop like a border collie

00:50:08.820 --> 00:50:12.019
like border collies are bred to just be standing

00:50:12.019 --> 00:50:15.820
and just go flip down to the ground yeah and

00:50:15.820 --> 00:50:20.420
they laughed at me and which you know maybe wasn't

00:50:20.420 --> 00:50:23.980
the nice thing but and they were like what like

00:50:23.980 --> 00:50:27.679
you basically like you knucklehead like it doesn't

00:50:27.679 --> 00:50:30.639
work like that you have a breed lab right so

00:50:31.630 --> 00:50:36.829
Like every dog, every breed is not going to be

00:50:36.829 --> 00:50:42.150
able to work like running fast, doing this, you

00:50:42.150 --> 00:50:46.909
know, I mean, picking the dumbbell up, flipping

00:50:46.909 --> 00:50:52.969
around and flying back. Like, you know, and so

00:50:52.969 --> 00:50:55.610
it's certain breeds and it's certain personalities,

00:50:55.610 --> 00:50:58.949
which is not to make it an excuse like, oh, well,

00:50:59.030 --> 00:51:02.590
my dog can't do that. It doesn't mean we shouldn't

00:51:02.590 --> 00:51:07.269
keep trying. Right. But at the same time, you

00:51:07.269 --> 00:51:10.650
know, we may have to look at this dog that's

00:51:10.650 --> 00:51:13.730
in front of us in this moment and be like, this

00:51:13.730 --> 00:51:18.929
is how this dog works when they're working to

00:51:18.929 --> 00:51:23.789
the best of their ability. Right. And that's

00:51:23.789 --> 00:51:27.670
not a reflection of us or our training. or the

00:51:27.670 --> 00:51:30.650
dog in a negative way, like that they're not

00:51:30.650 --> 00:51:36.449
trying, you know, because, you know, people,

00:51:36.570 --> 00:51:39.590
one or two people have said, well, he's, Zessie's

00:51:39.590 --> 00:51:43.010
not putting enough effort in, you know, and I

00:51:43.010 --> 00:51:46.289
think it's the opposite. I'm like, dude, just

00:51:46.289 --> 00:51:49.010
freaking relax. Would you just relax already?

00:51:49.110 --> 00:51:52.789
Like, right. He's trying too hard. He's putting

00:51:52.789 --> 00:52:00.269
too much, you know? Yeah. So, yeah, so. And it's

00:52:00.269 --> 00:52:02.929
a never ending process. It's a never ending process.

00:52:03.170 --> 00:52:06.510
It isn't, you know, but I think this was a great

00:52:06.510 --> 00:52:09.010
conversation to have because and it was funny

00:52:09.010 --> 00:52:12.110
because literally I was driving like when I got

00:52:12.110 --> 00:52:15.090
home and then I don't even know when you posted

00:52:15.090 --> 00:52:20.170
that post about Zesty. I was like, oh, my God,

00:52:20.329 --> 00:52:22.610
like that is freaking crazy because that was

00:52:22.610 --> 00:52:26.500
like like the conclusion I came to. driving home

00:52:26.500 --> 00:52:32.800
from Syracuse yeah well we started talking about

00:52:32.800 --> 00:52:34.820
it before the podcast just you and me talking

00:52:34.820 --> 00:52:36.760
and then we're like wait we should be recording

00:52:36.760 --> 00:52:40.260
this because this is like um yeah needs to be

00:52:40.260 --> 00:52:44.139
yeah and it's something that I think you know

00:52:44.139 --> 00:52:51.250
so unless you have that you know like Zaina because

00:52:51.250 --> 00:52:55.550
she doesn't care about the environment she doesn't

00:52:55.550 --> 00:52:58.789
care about the judge and she doesn't care if

00:52:58.789 --> 00:53:02.510
she's wrong so that brings it with it its own

00:53:02.510 --> 00:53:06.170
set of challenges but like that's why she looks

00:53:06.170 --> 00:53:09.409
so happy like we do all these distraction rings

00:53:09.409 --> 00:53:13.530
um distraction things sorry these super hard

00:53:13.530 --> 00:53:18.489
challenges right and we set it up and we're all

00:53:18.489 --> 00:53:21.190
like oh this is hard and then i get zaina out

00:53:21.190 --> 00:53:25.050
and everybody almost simultaneously before i

00:53:25.050 --> 00:53:26.929
even start says the same thing she's not gonna

00:53:26.929 --> 00:53:30.789
care and we put and she does not care when iota

00:53:30.789 --> 00:53:34.389
like she thinks it's hilarious she's like yeah

00:53:34.389 --> 00:53:38.690
yeah yeah you stupid humans like you can't mess

00:53:38.690 --> 00:53:42.610
me up like i know what to do all the other dogs

00:53:42.610 --> 00:53:45.670
are like oh okay can't you know can't look can't

00:53:45.670 --> 00:53:49.869
do that or oh no she's just like oh this is hilarious

00:53:49.869 --> 00:53:54.690
like oh look you guys put that in the pile you

00:53:54.690 --> 00:53:57.789
think you're so clever right because she doesn't

00:53:57.789 --> 00:54:01.630
fucking care she doesn't care she doesn't and

00:54:01.630 --> 00:54:04.510
there's dogs like that there are some dogs like

00:54:04.510 --> 00:54:08.510
that and there are some dogs that are just happy

00:54:08.510 --> 00:54:13.829
-go -lucky that may and maybe they do care but

00:54:13.829 --> 00:54:18.940
not like it doesn't make them kind of flat right

00:54:18.940 --> 00:54:23.760
they're just like okay like right that's who

00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:28.539
they are you know and um I mean I've seen dogs

00:54:28.539 --> 00:54:36.900
that you know where I'm like that trainer and

00:54:36.900 --> 00:54:38.559
I don't mean this in a negative way but like

00:54:38.559 --> 00:54:42.079
doesn't do a lot of motivational stuff just like

00:54:42.329 --> 00:54:44.909
train's pretty basic and the happy dog's like

00:54:44.909 --> 00:54:50.150
oh this is fun in the ring and there's a party

00:54:50.150 --> 00:54:52.429
that like wants to pull your hair out right but

00:54:52.429 --> 00:54:57.389
it's it's the personality it is it's who that

00:54:57.389 --> 00:55:02.110
dog is right it is yeah it is and i really think

00:55:02.110 --> 00:55:06.130
i mean i think like the dog like those the dog

00:55:06.130 --> 00:55:09.130
i mean we've talked about this too like dogs

00:55:10.490 --> 00:55:14.250
those independent dogs that really don't give

00:55:14.250 --> 00:55:16.809
a shit. Like, those are the dogs that, like,

00:55:16.829 --> 00:55:19.889
even in your pet life don't give a shit, Zaina.

00:55:21.269 --> 00:55:24.010
I mean, you know what I mean? Like, those are

00:55:24.010 --> 00:55:29.039
the dogs that may also, like, they don't. they

00:55:29.039 --> 00:55:31.960
don't care enough to really be precise all the

00:55:31.960 --> 00:55:34.699
time. You know what I mean? Like that comes with

00:55:34.699 --> 00:55:37.159
those kinds of dogs. Like you've talked about

00:55:37.159 --> 00:55:40.340
that. Like the dog is animated. She's happy.

00:55:40.380 --> 00:55:42.719
She's fast. But there's times where she's just

00:55:42.719 --> 00:55:45.340
like, eh, good enough. You know what I mean?

00:55:45.880 --> 00:55:49.380
I mean, they just said it yesterday in training,

00:55:49.500 --> 00:55:51.059
right? My training, my one training partner,

00:55:51.179 --> 00:55:54.139
she's like, she looks at me like, cause we were

00:55:54.139 --> 00:55:55.980
doing all this hard stuff. And Zaina's like,

00:55:56.119 --> 00:55:58.139
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. happy as

00:55:58.139 --> 00:56:00.179
a clam. Right. And she looks at me and she goes,

00:56:00.260 --> 00:56:03.159
it really is a shame. That's all she said. Cause

00:56:03.159 --> 00:56:05.860
she knows. Right. And I know because what she

00:56:05.860 --> 00:56:09.639
meant is it's such a shame that she doesn't really

00:56:09.639 --> 00:56:15.880
care. Yeah. Or, or like she'll care for like

00:56:15.880 --> 00:56:19.500
95 % of the class. And then she'll just be like,

00:56:19.579 --> 00:56:22.460
Oh, what's over there. And, or, you know, whatever.

00:56:22.880 --> 00:56:27.239
And she's like, because she would be. Like she

00:56:27.239 --> 00:56:30.619
would be unbeatable if she even cared like a

00:56:30.619 --> 00:56:33.980
little bit. She would be unbeatable. Right. She

00:56:33.980 --> 00:56:37.119
was freaking amazing because she's like come

00:56:37.119 --> 00:56:39.679
around to being pretty darn good. Like I'm not

00:56:39.679 --> 00:56:42.780
trying to constantly throw shade on her. She's

00:56:42.780 --> 00:56:46.179
been working unbelievably well. Right. She has.

00:56:46.300 --> 00:56:50.219
But it's just like hilarious. Like and I said

00:56:50.219 --> 00:56:53.679
to her, I said, you know what? A couple of years

00:56:53.679 --> 00:56:56.460
ago, I said I accepted who she is. I said, and

00:56:56.460 --> 00:56:59.360
I'm glad I have because it's made our relationship

00:56:59.360 --> 00:57:02.840
so much better. I don't get frustrated. Well,

00:57:02.920 --> 00:57:04.880
that's going to be the same with you and Zesty.

00:57:05.059 --> 00:57:08.139
It's the same thing. I don't get upset with her

00:57:08.139 --> 00:57:13.019
anymore because like this is who she is. And

00:57:13.019 --> 00:57:18.079
for who she is, she is giving me her best effort

00:57:18.079 --> 00:57:21.579
and then some. Because quite frankly, leave it

00:57:21.579 --> 00:57:24.599
up to her. She'd be doing everything with artistic

00:57:24.599 --> 00:57:27.260
interpretation. Like, I think this exercise would

00:57:27.260 --> 00:57:31.099
be better if I did it this way. Don't you agree?

00:57:31.280 --> 00:57:33.380
And she would look out at the audience waiting

00:57:33.380 --> 00:57:38.599
for them to applaud for her, right? But I, so

00:57:38.599 --> 00:57:43.940
she's working beyond her natural ability in my

00:57:43.940 --> 00:57:47.829
mind, right? Just like at some point in Zeal's

00:57:47.829 --> 00:57:51.190
career, I accepted who he was, right? And that's

00:57:51.190 --> 00:57:53.869
where I'm coming around with Zesty, where I'm

00:57:53.869 --> 00:57:57.730
like, this is who he is, right? And just because

00:57:57.730 --> 00:58:00.269
in life, like when I hike him, he's a raving

00:58:00.269 --> 00:58:03.190
lunatic. And I'm like, can he be like that? Right.

00:58:03.369 --> 00:58:06.130
This is who he is. And this is how he works.

00:58:06.210 --> 00:58:08.349
And this is, he's giving me the very best he

00:58:08.349 --> 00:58:11.489
can. And I think more really, I have to be honest.

00:58:12.269 --> 00:58:16.130
I get more frustrated with myself, not with the

00:58:16.130 --> 00:58:19.690
dog. I feel like I'm failing, like I'm doing

00:58:19.690 --> 00:58:22.230
something wrong. Like I'm not a good enough trainer.

00:58:22.329 --> 00:58:24.849
Like there's something wrong with me that I can't

00:58:24.849 --> 00:58:27.949
figure it out, that I can't make this dog faster,

00:58:28.130 --> 00:58:30.469
that I can't make this dog quote unquote happier,

00:58:30.610 --> 00:58:34.369
more relaxed, that I can't achieve that end picture.

00:58:34.489 --> 00:58:37.730
So really at the end of the day, it's all me.

00:58:37.869 --> 00:58:43.110
It's me being upset with me. for not being able

00:58:43.110 --> 00:58:47.030
to achieve what I want to achieve when really

00:58:47.030 --> 00:58:50.809
I should just be like, I am doing the best I

00:58:50.809 --> 00:58:57.489
can and he's doing the best he can. And that's

00:58:57.489 --> 00:59:01.309
just what it is. Yeah, that's exactly. That's,

00:59:01.309 --> 00:59:04.849
you know, and I think when we can kind of get

00:59:04.849 --> 00:59:08.429
our mind shifted in that direction, I think that

00:59:08.429 --> 00:59:13.000
it's going to. just get better. I do. I really

00:59:13.000 --> 00:59:17.360
do. And that takes the pressure off, you know?

00:59:17.380 --> 00:59:19.559
So maybe that's just how the dog's going to work

00:59:19.559 --> 00:59:23.219
from here on out. And they work successfully

00:59:23.219 --> 00:59:27.780
like that. You know? I mean, look what Zesty's

00:59:27.780 --> 00:59:30.699
accomplished. I mean, that's crazy. The freaking

00:59:30.699 --> 00:59:37.340
dog is like unbelievable. So... that has to be

00:59:37.340 --> 00:59:39.800
taken into account you know what I mean it's

00:59:39.800 --> 00:59:42.699
not like you have a dog that looks like sometimes

00:59:42.699 --> 00:59:47.739
he's not as fast and flashy or confident looking

00:59:47.739 --> 00:59:51.840
in the ring but he's doing his job to like the

00:59:51.840 --> 00:59:56.000
standard of winning national freaking tournaments

00:59:56.000 --> 00:59:59.170
like that says a lot you know what I mean No,

00:59:59.230 --> 01:00:01.530
I know. And I don't like I don't want people

01:00:01.530 --> 01:00:03.449
to think like, oh, it's like you're never happy.

01:00:03.750 --> 01:00:06.449
Like the people that really, really know me get

01:00:06.449 --> 01:00:09.849
it. It's not that I'm not happy with what he's

01:00:09.849 --> 01:00:12.710
accomplished or what he's done or what he's doing

01:00:12.710 --> 01:00:19.090
or any of that. It's that thing of like where

01:00:19.090 --> 01:00:27.650
I want my end goal is that I want a dog in the

01:00:27.650 --> 01:00:33.800
ring. that's happy and that looks happy and relaxed

01:00:33.800 --> 01:00:38.079
and confident. But I think that what I'm learning

01:00:38.079 --> 01:00:40.980
is that like, it doesn't even mean he's not confident.

01:00:41.039 --> 01:00:43.239
You know what I'm saying? Like it just means

01:00:43.239 --> 01:00:47.059
like he's being thoughtful or careful or whatever.

01:00:47.179 --> 01:00:51.300
So it's just me being so obsessed with, Oh God,

01:00:51.360 --> 01:00:53.380
the poor dog. Oh God, I don't want him to be

01:00:53.380 --> 01:00:56.320
happy. I don't unhappy. Like I love this dog

01:00:56.320 --> 01:01:00.000
so much. Like, sometimes I can't even talk about

01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:02.099
how much I love him because I start to cry. I

01:01:02.099 --> 01:01:06.599
get like. That's how I get. No. As a person.

01:01:06.780 --> 01:01:08.440
See, this is what I'm saying. As a person. Like,

01:01:08.440 --> 01:01:13.960
he. Just everything about this dog. Forget what

01:01:13.960 --> 01:01:18.820
he does in the ring. Like, I love him. He loves

01:01:18.820 --> 01:01:23.219
me. Like, it's ridiculous. Right? Yeah. And I

01:01:23.219 --> 01:01:25.980
wouldn't. trade him for anything under the sun

01:01:25.980 --> 01:01:29.039
and I'm happy with him with how he works no matter

01:01:29.039 --> 01:01:35.000
what like it's it's I because of that I don't

01:01:35.000 --> 01:01:37.019
and I went through the same thing with Zaina

01:01:37.019 --> 01:01:41.260
there was a long period where she was where she

01:01:41.260 --> 01:01:43.719
looked miserable in the ring and she was and

01:01:43.719 --> 01:01:46.079
she was worried and stressed and like I had to

01:01:46.079 --> 01:01:48.619
figure a lot of stuff out with her and I hated

01:01:48.619 --> 01:01:53.079
that just as much because I love them And I don't

01:01:53.079 --> 01:01:59.019
want them to be unhappy in the rain, you know?

01:01:59.019 --> 01:02:05.300
But I think what I'm realizing is that what I'm

01:02:05.300 --> 01:02:08.679
interpreting as unhappy is not necessarily unhappy.

01:02:09.119 --> 01:02:15.719
Right. Right. I agree. I agree. Because I think,

01:02:15.840 --> 01:02:21.250
you know, I think that... When you talked about

01:02:21.250 --> 01:02:23.369
that time you were in the store with the whole

01:02:23.369 --> 01:02:26.829
tug thing and the arousal, I think that's a thing.

01:02:26.869 --> 01:02:33.349
Like, what arousal state do they need to be working

01:02:33.349 --> 01:02:36.030
in to be optimal? You know what I mean? That

01:02:36.030 --> 01:02:38.469
could be different for every dog. Like, Ever

01:02:38.469 --> 01:02:41.510
looks like she's slinking around, but a lot of

01:02:41.510 --> 01:02:44.670
that just could be where she's at with her operating

01:02:44.670 --> 01:02:48.210
arousal state to be. Effectively and efficiently

01:02:48.210 --> 01:02:54.429
working. Does it look great? No. Is it her optimal?

01:02:54.530 --> 01:02:57.110
I don't know. Could we make it better? Maybe.

01:02:57.409 --> 01:03:02.550
But I have to be okay with. Some of what I'm.

01:03:02.650 --> 01:03:06.730
I don't know. That's what my point is. She's

01:03:06.730 --> 01:03:11.349
doing the best she can. Exactly. For who she

01:03:11.349 --> 01:03:17.230
is. At that moment in time. Right. And again,

01:03:17.349 --> 01:03:20.130
it's that whole thing where you're like, but

01:03:20.130 --> 01:03:23.170
oh, my God, like I do like because I know how

01:03:23.170 --> 01:03:26.750
you train. You do so much motivation, so much

01:03:26.750 --> 01:03:30.889
confidence building for years. And then we get

01:03:30.889 --> 01:03:33.769
that in the ring and then we feel like we're

01:03:33.769 --> 01:03:37.670
failing again. Like they're like, what are we

01:03:37.670 --> 01:03:43.730
doing wrong? You know, and like maybe part of

01:03:43.730 --> 01:03:46.820
it is maybe we're trying too hard. You know,

01:03:46.820 --> 01:03:52.780
maybe we shouldn't be doing that much drive building

01:03:52.780 --> 01:03:56.000
per se. Because I will say, like, sometimes with

01:03:56.000 --> 01:04:01.099
Ever, when she gets high, she sounds a little

01:04:01.099 --> 01:04:04.219
frantic to me. Do you know what I'm saying? Like,

01:04:04.219 --> 01:04:07.760
frantic. Not happy high, but, like, anxious high.

01:04:07.860 --> 01:04:12.360
With Zesty, sometimes he'll tug with aggression.

01:04:14.139 --> 01:04:16.619
And sometimes I'm like, come on, buddy, tug.

01:04:16.699 --> 01:04:21.940
Like, I'm coercing him into tugging. And then

01:04:21.940 --> 01:04:23.840
I stopped doing that. I was like, all right,

01:04:23.860 --> 01:04:25.360
you know what? You don't want to tug? Fine, we're

01:04:25.360 --> 01:04:27.280
not going to tug. Like, we're not going to tug.

01:04:27.840 --> 01:04:30.260
I'll use food. You like food. You work great

01:04:30.260 --> 01:04:32.840
for food. I'll use food. You know, and then sometimes

01:04:32.840 --> 01:04:37.260
he's like, toy. And he tugs like a lunatic. So

01:04:37.260 --> 01:04:41.730
I have to let him make that choice, right? I

01:04:41.730 --> 01:04:44.449
have to stop trying to be like, I want you to

01:04:44.449 --> 01:04:47.949
tug and I want you to tug more because I want

01:04:47.949 --> 01:04:53.210
more arousal because I want you to work faster.

01:04:53.750 --> 01:04:56.070
Well, now I'm not being a good teammate. I'm

01:04:56.070 --> 01:04:58.690
not listening. He's saying for whatever reason

01:04:58.690 --> 01:05:02.570
at that moment on that day, doing whatever I'm

01:05:02.570 --> 01:05:04.610
doing with him, that he doesn't want to tug.

01:05:05.050 --> 01:05:11.460
Right. Right. Yeah. So that, you know, And finally,

01:05:11.619 --> 01:05:15.840
I'm like, OK, like, well, I have in the past

01:05:15.840 --> 01:05:18.340
bailed on that and did food, but it would always

01:05:18.340 --> 01:05:20.639
bother me because there's this part of me that's

01:05:20.639 --> 01:05:23.119
like you're failing because you haven't made

01:05:23.119 --> 01:05:27.000
his tug drive strong enough or you're bailing

01:05:27.000 --> 01:05:30.320
and just, you know, caving and giving him food

01:05:30.320 --> 01:05:34.139
or whatever. But I've been watching it more and

01:05:34.139 --> 01:05:36.780
more carefully. And it's just like I think sometimes

01:05:36.780 --> 01:05:41.349
he's like, no, I can't do my work. When I get

01:05:41.349 --> 01:05:44.550
in that state. In that arousal state, you know,

01:05:44.550 --> 01:05:48.010
or for whatever reason, he's like, I would rather

01:05:48.010 --> 01:05:53.590
have food as a reinforcer. Right. At right now

01:05:53.590 --> 01:05:59.449
than that. Right. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and that,

01:05:59.469 --> 01:06:01.730
that's something I'm doing with Stormy too, because

01:06:01.730 --> 01:06:04.989
she is, that dog is high arousal. She lives in

01:06:04.989 --> 01:06:09.230
high arousal 24 seven. And I have to watch, I

01:06:09.230 --> 01:06:11.909
got to watch the, like she wants the toy. Like

01:06:11.909 --> 01:06:14.750
that is her biggest, that's her ultimate reinforcer.

01:06:14.889 --> 01:06:18.929
But I can't, I can't use that reinforcer all

01:06:18.929 --> 01:06:21.030
the time because she can't think and she makes

01:06:21.030 --> 01:06:24.989
mistakes when she's like that. So I use the food

01:06:24.989 --> 01:06:28.510
because the food actually is a lower, it causes

01:06:28.510 --> 01:06:31.190
her to come down actually. The reinforcer keeps

01:06:31.190 --> 01:06:36.070
her in a more manageable arousal state. so there's

01:06:36.070 --> 01:06:39.210
something to be said with that for sure yeah

01:06:39.210 --> 01:06:45.389
good well I'm glad we decided to record now because

01:06:45.389 --> 01:06:48.289
I think it's really good like and good for me

01:06:48.289 --> 01:06:51.469
it's good for me to just like hash that out right

01:06:51.469 --> 01:06:53.650
like which is why we started talking about it

01:06:53.650 --> 01:06:56.369
before we started recording because like yeah

01:06:56.369 --> 01:07:00.610
we need to talk things through and hash things

01:07:00.610 --> 01:07:06.340
out and um constantly work on you know having

01:07:06.340 --> 01:07:09.219
a better understanding of our dogs and what we're

01:07:09.219 --> 01:07:12.659
trying to do recognize like what like i always

01:07:12.659 --> 01:07:16.119
have to recognize my weaknesses right like or

01:07:16.119 --> 01:07:22.940
um my tendencies and rein them in right yeah

01:07:22.940 --> 01:07:28.199
or adjust them or modify them yeah or be able

01:07:28.199 --> 01:07:31.489
to look at it from a different angle you know

01:07:31.489 --> 01:07:34.369
like that's a big one that's and that was my

01:07:34.369 --> 01:07:38.630
whole thing like driving home I'm just like I

01:07:38.630 --> 01:07:41.250
have to be look I gotta look at this from every

01:07:41.250 --> 01:07:44.610
other side like what how what is going on what

01:07:44.610 --> 01:07:47.869
you know like that's a big thing like and that's

01:07:47.869 --> 01:07:51.510
that's just figuring out training stuff it's

01:07:51.510 --> 01:07:55.030
never ending never ending never ending and then

01:07:55.030 --> 01:07:57.800
you get another dog and you think like I've so

01:07:57.800 --> 01:08:01.320
many different dogs surely by now I have the

01:08:01.320 --> 01:08:04.920
answer and then the next dog is completely different

01:08:04.920 --> 01:08:07.639
and then you have a whole nother different set

01:08:07.639 --> 01:08:10.199
of challenges yeah and you're back to square

01:08:10.199 --> 01:08:15.619
one yeah yeah yeah that's true that's why I don't

01:08:15.619 --> 01:08:17.800
know how as a trainer you could ever have a big

01:08:17.800 --> 01:08:20.680
ego because I sure as heck don't because I don't

01:08:20.680 --> 01:08:24.619
either oh my god is keep like knocking me down

01:08:24.619 --> 01:08:32.829
like anything like you know no you don't know

01:08:32.829 --> 01:08:37.829
and it's hard like there's you know like you're

01:08:37.829 --> 01:08:40.390
it can get like where you're just feeling like

01:08:40.390 --> 01:08:44.449
oh my god what what is wrong with me as a dog

01:08:44.449 --> 01:08:48.590
trainer like you can easily go there but you

01:08:48.590 --> 01:08:51.609
know that's just why i love it because we're

01:08:51.609 --> 01:08:56.029
we're trying you know because we really care

01:08:56.029 --> 01:09:02.189
about our dogs like emotional state and their

01:09:02.189 --> 01:09:04.609
head space and all that we're just we're not

01:09:04.609 --> 01:09:07.310
just like i don't care what you look like or

01:09:07.310 --> 01:09:09.390
how you do it just do it and get it done right

01:09:09.390 --> 01:09:13.090
like we care and sometimes maybe we care a little

01:09:13.090 --> 01:09:18.149
bit too much we go over the cliff and then we

01:09:18.149 --> 01:09:22.229
have to like rein ourselves back in and it's

01:09:22.229 --> 01:09:27.270
a different process but anyway um all right this

01:09:27.270 --> 01:09:30.090
was good thanks everybody thanks again everybody

01:09:30.090 --> 01:09:32.949
that comes up and mentions that they listen to

01:09:32.949 --> 01:09:36.750
the podcast yeah that yeah and they tell us like

01:09:36.750 --> 01:09:39.289
you know they're telling other people about it

01:09:39.289 --> 01:09:42.710
um so i wanted to say thank you to everybody

01:09:42.710 --> 01:09:47.569
for that um we really appreciate it um and that's

01:09:47.569 --> 01:09:51.329
it for today so Yeah. Awesome. Thanks everybody.

01:09:51.510 --> 01:09:52.729
Bye. Bye.