WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.359 All right, so check it out. You know how we talk 00:00:02.359 --> 00:00:04.639 about all the weird stuff, they sneak into our 00:00:04.639 --> 00:00:07.480 food, our air, or even our clothes? Yeah. It 00:00:07.480 --> 00:00:09.839 turns out most shirts are basically made of plastic. 00:00:10.220 --> 00:00:12.259 You're sweating in chemicals, man. That's why 00:00:12.259 --> 00:00:14.720 I switched to Hypronatural. It's wild. They make 00:00:14.720 --> 00:00:17.059 their fabric from jade stone and crab shells. 00:00:17.519 --> 00:00:19.899 Yeah, you heard me right. Jade and crab shells. 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:22.600 The jade keeps you naturally cool, like literally 00:00:22.600 --> 00:00:24.980 drops your skin temp down a few degrees. And 00:00:24.980 --> 00:00:27.339 the crab shell fibers? They fight odor and help 00:00:27.339 --> 00:00:30.000 your skin stay fresh all day long. So you can 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:32.969 wear it longer, wash it less. and not smell like 00:00:32.969 --> 00:00:36.109 a dirty old gym tap. They use a fancy cot, mother 00:00:36.109 --> 00:00:39.109 of pearl buttons, and zero junk. No polyester, 00:00:39.289 --> 00:00:41.350 no chemical dyes, and none of that synthetic 00:00:41.350 --> 00:00:44.329 garbage. It's clean, it's sustainable, and honestly, 00:00:44.630 --> 00:00:46.570 it's just cool gear. You can wear it anywhere. 00:00:46.770 --> 00:00:49.490 The gym, the range, whatever, and it looks legit. 00:00:49.590 --> 00:00:52.950 Go to hypernatural .com and use my code zero 00:00:52.950 --> 00:00:55.350 signal at checkout and you'll get yourself 20 00:00:55.350 --> 00:00:58.429 % off. And get yourself the cleanest, most comfortable 00:00:58.429 --> 00:01:00.850 shirt you've ever worn. That's hypernatural. 00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:27.189 Nature engineered for comfort. Welcome back to 00:01:27.189 --> 00:01:28.849 Zero Signal. I'm your host, David, and I'm sitting 00:01:28.849 --> 00:01:30.909 here with my cohost, Jay. Tonight, we're pulling 00:01:30.909 --> 00:01:33.409 back the curtain on a war most people only see 00:01:33.409 --> 00:01:36.109 in the headlines or on Netflix shows. We're talking 00:01:36.109 --> 00:01:38.810 about drugs, cartels, dark web markets, and the 00:01:38.810 --> 00:01:40.829 kind of decisions that get made far above our 00:01:40.829 --> 00:01:43.030 pay grade. My guest spent nearly three decades 00:01:43.030 --> 00:01:46.030 on the inside. Brian Townsend is a retired supervisory 00:01:46.030 --> 00:01:48.370 special agent and resident agent in charge with 00:01:48.370 --> 00:01:50.370 the Drug Enforcement Administration. He started 00:01:50.370 --> 00:01:52.569 as a street cop in Joplin, Missouri, and then 00:01:52.569 --> 00:01:55.489 spent 23 years with the DEA chasing traffickers 00:01:55.489 --> 00:01:57.709 in places like Corpus Christi, Little Rock, and 00:01:57.709 --> 00:01:59.670 Springfield, where the official mission was simple, 00:01:59.829 --> 00:02:02.590 stop the drugs and dismantle the networks. At 00:02:02.590 --> 00:02:04.390 Quantico, he wasn't just teaching tactics, he 00:02:04.390 --> 00:02:06.670 helped build DEA's Leadership and Development 00:02:06.670 --> 00:02:08.870 Training Program, shaping how an agency over 00:02:08.870 --> 00:02:11.610 10 ,000 people thinks about power, influence, 00:02:11.610 --> 00:02:14.009 and control. Now on the outside, Brian's still 00:02:14.009 --> 00:02:15.770 in the fight, just without the badge. He's a 00:02:15.770 --> 00:02:17.629 law enforcement training coordinator with the 00:02:17.629 --> 00:02:19.889 Mid -States Organized Crime Information Center. 00:02:19.969 --> 00:02:22.370 He runs Eagle Six Training, and he founded only 00:02:22.370 --> 00:02:25.650 Two Milligrams Incorporated, a 501C3... nonprofit 00:02:25.650 --> 00:02:28.729 focused on fentanyl and the opioid crisis that's 00:02:28.729 --> 00:02:30.650 tearing through America's communities. He also 00:02:30.650 --> 00:02:32.750 serves on the board of Drug Enforcement Association 00:02:32.750 --> 00:02:35.469 of Federal Narcotics Agents, and he's been featured 00:02:35.469 --> 00:02:38.469 on Fox, CNN, and across media whenever someone 00:02:38.469 --> 00:02:40.650 wants to understand what's really going on with 00:02:40.650 --> 00:02:43.030 illicit drugs, transnational crime organizations, 00:02:43.289 --> 00:02:45.830 cryptocurrency, and dark web marketplaces. This 00:02:45.830 --> 00:02:47.270 is the kind of guest who's seen the parts of 00:02:47.270 --> 00:02:49.110 the war on drugs that never make it into the 00:02:49.110 --> 00:02:51.210 press. The part that, if he didn't have the case 00:02:51.210 --> 00:02:52.830 files, might sound like conspiracy theories. 00:03:07.469 --> 00:03:09.870 So Brian, that's the official bio. When the cameras 00:03:09.870 --> 00:03:12.270 are off, how do you describe who you are and 00:03:12.270 --> 00:03:13.930 what's the one thing you want to be remembered? 00:03:13.969 --> 00:03:16.469 Just be a decent human being as someone who is 00:03:16.469 --> 00:03:19.069 genuine, authentic, cared and try to make a world 00:03:19.069 --> 00:03:21.389 a better place. That's really who I am and how 00:03:21.389 --> 00:03:23.210 I want to be remembered. That's an amazing thing. 00:03:23.210 --> 00:03:24.909 I think we all want to be remembered that way. 00:03:24.949 --> 00:03:26.590 And you have a stellar career. So you obviously 00:03:26.590 --> 00:03:29.490 have a lot of high level accomplishments coming 00:03:29.490 --> 00:03:31.729 from your DEA background. And obviously you're 00:03:31.729 --> 00:03:34.129 wearing the shirt today. So only two milligrams, 00:03:34.189 --> 00:03:36.389 which is a nonprofit that you're supporting and 00:03:36.389 --> 00:03:37.889 all the things. that you're doing and training 00:03:37.889 --> 00:03:40.169 and really making this place a better world. 00:03:40.430 --> 00:03:43.270 So let's start with Venezuela. When you hear 00:03:43.270 --> 00:03:45.770 politicians blame a big chunk of the drug problem 00:03:45.770 --> 00:03:48.889 on Venezuela, how much of that matches what you 00:03:48.889 --> 00:03:51.810 saw in real cases and how much feels like a convenience 00:03:51.810 --> 00:03:54.349 storyline? A lot of it right now is a convenience 00:03:54.349 --> 00:03:56.129 storyline. I think it's a lot more complicated 00:03:56.129 --> 00:03:58.750 than people think. Drugs, primarily cocaine, 00:03:58.849 --> 00:04:01.110 do come from Venezuela and that area of the world. 00:04:01.150 --> 00:04:03.129 But there's a lot of players, a lot of bad actors 00:04:03.129 --> 00:04:05.090 involved. I think there's something bigger going 00:04:05.090 --> 00:04:07.469 on obviously now. We've restricted airspace. 00:04:07.530 --> 00:04:09.409 We don't like the president. He's been indicted 00:04:09.409 --> 00:04:11.490 in the United States. He's a bad guy. We should 00:04:11.490 --> 00:04:13.469 all mutually agree. That's a good thing for him 00:04:13.469 --> 00:04:15.710 to be gone. But I don't know what's playing behind 00:04:15.710 --> 00:04:17.689 the scenes there, but certainly more than what 00:04:17.689 --> 00:04:19.829 we see. The drug boat's being destroyed. I'm 00:04:19.829 --> 00:04:21.529 actually happy about that. I have no problem 00:04:21.529 --> 00:04:23.370 with that at all. I don't know how much of a 00:04:23.370 --> 00:04:25.389 dent it's going to make in our drug supply, especially 00:04:25.389 --> 00:04:27.430 when they say fentanyl. Fentanyl doesn't come 00:04:27.430 --> 00:04:29.670 from there. It primarily comes from Mexico. Doesn't 00:04:29.670 --> 00:04:31.870 mean I'm not unhappy, though. I think we got 00:04:31.870 --> 00:04:34.110 to take the war to them if there is a war on 00:04:34.110 --> 00:04:36.439 drugs. But yeah, very comfortable. over there 00:04:36.439 --> 00:04:38.779 for sure. I've heard that a lot of, at least 00:04:38.779 --> 00:04:41.300 the base ingredients are shipped to Mexico from 00:04:41.300 --> 00:04:43.240 China. How true is that from your experience? 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:45.319 Absolutely. A hundred percent true. So China 00:04:45.319 --> 00:04:47.779 is the number one source country for the chemicals 00:04:47.779 --> 00:04:49.660 followed by India. And then there are some other 00:04:49.660 --> 00:04:52.139 countries primarily in Europe, but China is number 00:04:52.139 --> 00:04:54.740 one by far not giving up that number one spot. 00:04:54.860 --> 00:04:56.800 They, they send the chemicals that we sometimes 00:04:56.800 --> 00:04:59.040 we'll call them precursor chemicals to make the 00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:02.139 fentanyl primarily directly to Mexico. And the 00:05:02.139 --> 00:05:04.220 stuff is mass produced. It comes into ports. 00:05:04.459 --> 00:05:06.939 cargo ships. From there, it's transported to 00:05:06.939 --> 00:05:09.759 various locations around Mexico, especially the 00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:12.319 Sinaloa Cartel controlled areas and the CJNG 00:05:12.319 --> 00:05:14.459 controlled areas in the western part of Mexico. 00:05:14.680 --> 00:05:17.040 It's manufactured in bulk and it's smuggled over 00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:19.240 the border like they do other drugs successfully 00:05:19.240 --> 00:05:22.500 for decades now. So we do see some labs in Canada 00:05:22.500 --> 00:05:24.819 and other parts of the world as well, but China 00:05:24.819 --> 00:05:27.600 to Mexico is the primary destination before it 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:29.240 gets to the U .S. So when it gets to Mexico, 00:05:29.300 --> 00:05:31.920 what's the typical supply chain there? Do they 00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:34.540 mix it in with other drugs, heroin? Are they 00:05:34.540 --> 00:05:36.279 just cutting it up and repackaging and shipping 00:05:36.279 --> 00:05:38.139 it out or is there some sort of process that 00:05:38.139 --> 00:05:40.399 they do over there on the Mexican side? Primarily 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:42.339 just the manufacture of the fentanyl itself. 00:05:42.589 --> 00:05:44.370 They've really controlled that, just like they 00:05:44.370 --> 00:05:46.610 have methamphetamines. Since the early 2000s, 00:05:46.610 --> 00:05:49.029 they have a great pipeline, unfortunately, of 00:05:49.029 --> 00:05:51.410 precursor chemicals to manufacture this stuff. 00:05:51.509 --> 00:05:53.689 And they make it in bulk and they smuggle it. 00:05:53.689 --> 00:05:55.829 And it's usually in powder or pill form when 00:05:55.829 --> 00:05:57.750 it's smuggled. Now it does get into our heroin, 00:05:57.850 --> 00:05:59.430 it does get into our cocaine, it does get into 00:05:59.430 --> 00:06:01.250 our methamphetamine. I could make a pretty good 00:06:01.250 --> 00:06:03.250 case. That's primarily done in the United States 00:06:03.250 --> 00:06:04.990 by the traffickers. Not that it's not done in 00:06:04.990 --> 00:06:06.970 Mexico, but we know a lot of traffickers in the 00:06:06.970 --> 00:06:08.889 United States are involved in that as well. Interesting. 00:06:09.189 --> 00:06:10.670 Yeah, when I was in law enforcement, when the 00:06:10.670 --> 00:06:12.160 fentanyl crisis really started to break, out 00:06:12.160 --> 00:06:13.819 or at least when I started seeing it, you saw 00:06:13.819 --> 00:06:16.220 a lot of the heroin addicts that overdose because 00:06:16.220 --> 00:06:17.939 fentanyl was getting mixed in with the heroin 00:06:17.939 --> 00:06:20.240 and what is it a thousand times stronger or something 00:06:20.240 --> 00:06:22.600 crazy amount that it's stronger and it's causing 00:06:22.600 --> 00:06:25.100 these kids and others to overdose on it, which 00:06:25.100 --> 00:06:27.160 is a very sad situation. Yeah. You look at the 00:06:27.160 --> 00:06:29.279 overall overdose numbers. I like to call them 00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:30.740 drug poisonings because I think you could make 00:06:30.740 --> 00:06:32.660 an argument that most of those folks weren't 00:06:32.660 --> 00:06:34.399 looking, probably none of them were looking for 00:06:34.399 --> 00:06:37.540 fentanyl, especially in the early 2010, 2015 00:06:37.540 --> 00:06:39.500 time range. They were looking for heroin. We 00:06:39.500 --> 00:06:41.639 saw a spike in heroin and you can go. back further 00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:43.819 than that because of the way we changed pain 00:06:43.819 --> 00:06:46.660 management in this country in the 1990s. In 1996, 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:49.160 to be specific, with Purdue's release of Oxycontin. 00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:51.500 And we just started giving out opioids like they 00:06:51.500 --> 00:06:54.399 were candy. And that increased the demand for 00:06:54.399 --> 00:06:57.060 street opioids, street heroin. Manufacturers 00:06:57.060 --> 00:06:58.860 couldn't make it fast enough. They started cutting 00:06:58.860 --> 00:07:00.699 it with fentanyl. And like you said, people were 00:07:00.699 --> 00:07:02.860 dying overnight because they had no idea that 00:07:02.860 --> 00:07:04.939 fentanyl had polluted our heroin supply. And 00:07:04.939 --> 00:07:06.720 like I said, these people weren't looking for 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:08.160 fentanyl, they're looking for heroin. And the 00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:10.399 difference between heroin and fentanyl is significant. 00:07:10.319 --> 00:07:12.639 And to me, it's not necessarily the potency, 00:07:12.660 --> 00:07:15.339 it's the amount. The average lethal dose of heroin 00:07:15.339 --> 00:07:17.860 is about 30 milligrams. The average lethal dose 00:07:17.860 --> 00:07:19.699 of fentanyl is about two milligrams. In fact, 00:07:19.699 --> 00:07:21.920 that's why we call it our non -product is a reminder. 00:07:22.180 --> 00:07:23.939 So that's a significant difference. So you think 00:07:23.939 --> 00:07:25.519 you're, especially if you've built a tolerance, 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:27.439 you have a bunch of heroin in front of you that 00:07:27.439 --> 00:07:29.720 you're about to use and literally only a couple 00:07:29.720 --> 00:07:31.600 of granules of salt or sand of fentanyl gets 00:07:31.600 --> 00:07:33.920 into it, which is only two milligrams and you're 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:35.860 dead. And that's why I like to call them drug 00:07:35.860 --> 00:07:38.240 poisonings and say that these people had no idea 00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:40.269 they were getting fentanyl on. And the number 00:07:40.269 --> 00:07:42.209 of people dying in this country just exploded, 00:07:42.490 --> 00:07:43.949 absolutely exploded overnight. At the height 00:07:43.949 --> 00:07:46.370 of it, two years ago, we lost 105 ,000 people. 00:07:46.589 --> 00:07:49.410 And dive deep into those numbers, 75 % because 00:07:49.410 --> 00:07:51.629 of one drug, fentanyl. Last year, thankfully, 00:07:51.629 --> 00:07:54.170 we saw a reduction to 80, 82 ,000. I don't know 00:07:54.170 --> 00:07:56.089 the exact number yet. But again, if you dive 00:07:56.089 --> 00:07:58.329 deep into those numbers, same thing, about 75 00:07:58.329 --> 00:08:00.490 % because of fentanyl. And the only reason we've 00:08:00.490 --> 00:08:03.329 seen a reduction is because of drugs like naloxone 00:08:03.329 --> 00:08:06.170 or opioid reversing drugs that have made their 00:08:06.170 --> 00:08:09.720 way on the street. the name of the device, but 00:08:09.720 --> 00:08:11.279 it would basically reverse did the symptoms. 00:08:11.439 --> 00:08:12.740 They gave them to every cop that was out on the 00:08:12.740 --> 00:08:14.240 street and you would inject somebody if you thought 00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:16.839 they overdosed on heroin. Narcan, naloxone. Yeah, 00:08:16.899 --> 00:08:18.259 Narcan, that's the word I'm looking for. Yeah, 00:08:18.259 --> 00:08:21.199 Narcan. Yeah, that's the brand. So do you think 00:08:21.199 --> 00:08:23.839 this new war on drugs, like taking out the Venezuelan 00:08:23.839 --> 00:08:26.139 supply most, do you think that's helping reduce 00:08:26.139 --> 00:08:28.220 drugs that are reaching this country or is it 00:08:28.220 --> 00:08:30.199 just a show of force? No, I think it's helped, 00:08:30.220 --> 00:08:31.639 but I really think there needs to be a holistic 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:34.059 approach to what we're doing. I hate the word 00:08:34.059 --> 00:08:36.220 war on drugs and not that you said anything wrong. 00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:38.100 I say it all the time as well, because when we 00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:40.659 hear that, we're waiting for an end. And I don't 00:08:40.659 --> 00:08:42.019 know that we'll ever have an end. And the reason 00:08:42.019 --> 00:08:44.139 is because we have a demand and this is simple 00:08:44.139 --> 00:08:45.860 economics. If there's a demand, there'll be a 00:08:45.860 --> 00:08:47.860 supply. Do I think it helps? Yeah, absolutely. 00:08:47.860 --> 00:08:49.779 And I think we need to do more of that and step 00:08:49.779 --> 00:08:52.340 that up. Go after these large scale traffickers 00:08:52.340 --> 00:08:54.519 and transnational criminal organizations. Go 00:08:54.519 --> 00:08:56.179 after these traffickers that are killing people 00:08:56.179 --> 00:08:58.120 with fentanyl. But at the same time, we need 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:00.720 to increase awareness and education and figure 00:09:00.720 --> 00:09:02.720 out, like I said, more of a holistic approach. 00:09:02.840 --> 00:09:04.659 We can't, I used to believe this, but we can't 00:09:04.659 --> 00:09:06.440 arrest ourself out of this problem. We just can't. 00:09:06.460 --> 00:09:08.429 There's always going to to be a demand for drugs. 00:09:08.809 --> 00:09:10.509 And until we reduce that demand, we're really 00:09:10.509 --> 00:09:12.929 just spinning the wheel in time. Do you think 00:09:12.929 --> 00:09:15.129 the solution is what they're doing in some West 00:09:15.129 --> 00:09:17.529 coast communities where like it's under control, 00:09:17.669 --> 00:09:19.250 it's under an eye, like they're providing the 00:09:19.250 --> 00:09:22.080 needles and. And the drugs, is that the solution 00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:23.899 or what do you think the solution is? Because 00:09:23.899 --> 00:09:25.659 I think once you're addicted to something, it's 00:09:25.659 --> 00:09:27.779 really hard to almost control it. It's like a 00:09:27.779 --> 00:09:29.320 shark in water. Like you're going towards it 00:09:29.320 --> 00:09:30.720 and you're not going to stop until you get it. 00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:32.960 But is there an easy solution? We got to figure 00:09:32.960 --> 00:09:35.200 out a way to reduce the demand. I think we can 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:37.840 start by reducing stigma or eliminating stigma, 00:09:37.840 --> 00:09:40.000 but I'm not a big fan of some of the things they're 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:41.720 doing. I'm all about helping people and figuring 00:09:41.720 --> 00:09:44.220 out if there's other solutions or other avenues 00:09:44.220 --> 00:09:46.539 we can go down. The problem is I think because 00:09:46.539 --> 00:09:49.179 of the stigma of drug use in this country, we're 00:09:49.179 --> 00:09:51.799 not really serious about a solution. Politicians 00:09:51.799 --> 00:09:53.919 will throw money at the enforcement and then 00:09:53.919 --> 00:09:55.740 they'll get on TV and say, hey, we just gave 00:09:55.740 --> 00:09:58.200 DEA a little bit more money or Haida or whoever 00:09:58.200 --> 00:10:00.139 a little bit more money, but that's not the solution. 00:10:00.259 --> 00:10:02.600 I was proud of what I did. I think that's certainly 00:10:02.600 --> 00:10:05.139 part of the solution. Again, it has to be more 00:10:05.139 --> 00:10:07.019 holistic. We got to look at this from different 00:10:07.019 --> 00:10:09.159 angles and we throw a little tiny bit of money 00:10:09.159 --> 00:10:11.039 thinking that's it. And we're not, we probably 00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:13.860 spend more money fixing potholes than we do helping 00:10:13.860 --> 00:10:16.019 people that are really struggling from substance 00:10:16.019 --> 00:10:18.100 use disorder addiction. That's real. And this 00:10:18.100 --> 00:10:19.860 is, that's something we need. to solve, go back 00:10:19.860 --> 00:10:21.820 to the demand I was talking about. You look in 00:10:21.820 --> 00:10:24.580 the United States, we make about four, four and 00:10:24.580 --> 00:10:26.159 a half percent of the world's population, yet 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:28.539 we consume the majority of drugs. That's a problem. 00:10:29.000 --> 00:10:31.019 Like, you've got to figure that out. I'd rather 00:10:31.019 --> 00:10:33.379 them, not rather, but in addition to spending 00:10:33.379 --> 00:10:35.340 money on the enforcement piece, how about putting 00:10:35.340 --> 00:10:38.059 people in our schools and our communities talking 00:10:38.059 --> 00:10:40.440 about these dangers? How about more treatment, 00:10:40.600 --> 00:10:42.539 especially medicated assistant treatment, MAT? 00:10:42.840 --> 00:10:44.940 But back to the original question, when we're 00:10:44.940 --> 00:10:46.620 only given a little bit of pot of money, and 00:10:46.620 --> 00:10:48.100 then somebody says, we're just going to go buy 00:10:48.100 --> 00:10:49.980 needles with it. I don't think that's a solution. 00:10:50.139 --> 00:10:53.080 I think that's a band aid at best. And I'm not 00:10:53.080 --> 00:10:55.220 a fan of the needles. I'm just not. I know people 00:10:55.220 --> 00:10:57.019 are probably going to write in and criticize 00:10:57.019 --> 00:11:01.340 me or you all. But yeah, did it slow the AIDS 00:11:01.340 --> 00:11:03.600 and other problems? Absolutely. And that's not 00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:05.559 a bad thing. I'm actually not a hundred percent 00:11:05.559 --> 00:11:07.399 opposed to needles. I tell you what I am opposed 00:11:07.399 --> 00:11:09.960 to is field test kits for folks that are using 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:11.779 drugs. And the reason is because they provide 00:11:11.779 --> 00:11:14.519 a false sense of accuracy to people. We talked 00:11:14.519 --> 00:11:16.580 about how little fentanyl it takes to kill you. 00:11:16.600 --> 00:11:19.220 And I can tell you example after example of people, 00:11:19.419 --> 00:11:21.320 especially young people who, here's one right 00:11:21.320 --> 00:11:23.620 here. I was talking to a family member out in 00:11:23.620 --> 00:11:26.360 California who lost her niece to a counterfeit 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:28.820 Adderall pill. girlfriends were having a little 00:11:28.820 --> 00:11:31.159 slumber party and they bought a counterfeit Adderall. 00:11:31.240 --> 00:11:33.919 Thought it was real. Split it into three pieces. 00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:36.340 Three pieces. We're talking a little tiny pill. 00:11:36.830 --> 00:11:39.149 And she never woke up after taking this piece. 00:11:39.350 --> 00:11:41.129 So what would have, they would have got a, let's 00:11:41.129 --> 00:11:43.710 say a tester or something like that and tested 00:11:43.710 --> 00:11:46.169 some of the pill. You have to destroy the entire 00:11:46.169 --> 00:11:48.330 pill to tell whether or not it's accurate or 00:11:48.330 --> 00:11:50.529 not. Now that pill's gone. How about the batch? 00:11:50.649 --> 00:11:52.909 Just because that one pill was negative doesn't 00:11:52.909 --> 00:11:54.389 mean the other pills in that batch are going 00:11:54.389 --> 00:11:56.009 to be negative. It's just, I don't know, when, 00:11:56.129 --> 00:11:58.009 when I hear about these organizations just putting 00:11:58.009 --> 00:12:00.409 all their apples in the one basket, it's just 00:12:00.409 --> 00:12:02.370 frustrating because we have a limited amount 00:12:02.370 --> 00:12:06.850 of apples. We need to be smarter and more efficient 00:12:06.850 --> 00:12:08.610 about it. When I was in law enforcement, right, 00:12:08.690 --> 00:12:11.090 the field test, they were enough to like be able 00:12:11.090 --> 00:12:13.049 to make an arrest, but they weren't enough to 00:12:13.049 --> 00:12:14.929 like bring into the court and sustain the case 00:12:14.929 --> 00:12:16.169 because they aren't always a hundred percent 00:12:16.169 --> 00:12:17.649 accurate. And if I remember correctly, maybe 00:12:17.649 --> 00:12:19.169 things have changed. It's been a long time since 00:12:19.169 --> 00:12:21.129 I've been in law enforcement now, but like for 00:12:21.129 --> 00:12:22.909 the case you're describing, there is no field 00:12:22.909 --> 00:12:25.210 test. Like, I think we use like meth field tests 00:12:25.210 --> 00:12:27.470 to try to bring it to test positive, but I don't 00:12:27.470 --> 00:12:29.470 remember there actually ever being a field test 00:12:29.470 --> 00:12:31.710 for Adderall or what have you. There are field 00:12:31.710 --> 00:12:33.769 tests for fentanyl now. And I'm actually excited 00:12:33.769 --> 00:12:36.570 for the. use of those in law enforcement community, 00:12:36.610 --> 00:12:38.490 because like you were saying in your application, 00:12:38.710 --> 00:12:40.649 it gave you enough to charge them or at least 00:12:40.649 --> 00:12:42.490 rest them. And then you'd wait for the lab report 00:12:42.490 --> 00:12:44.570 before anything formal came. In fact, I work 00:12:44.570 --> 00:12:47.230 with a company out of Ohio that just made a fentanyl 00:12:47.230 --> 00:12:49.029 wipe, which is pretty cool. You actually, it's 00:12:49.029 --> 00:12:51.149 a, it looks like a Perel wipe. It's like a five 00:12:51.149 --> 00:12:54.250 by eight. And once it touches any surface, pill 00:12:54.250 --> 00:12:56.490 or anything that has fentanyl, it changes, instantly 00:12:56.490 --> 00:12:58.610 changes color. Yeah. I think that's pretty neat. 00:12:58.610 --> 00:13:00.190 And there's a lot of products on the market, 00:13:00.389 --> 00:13:02.970 the True Narcs, the electric ramen devices. But 00:13:02.970 --> 00:13:04.679 my point is. I don't have a problem with law 00:13:04.679 --> 00:13:06.620 enforcement using this. I think the application 00:13:06.620 --> 00:13:08.299 sense, because we need to know. You're on the 00:13:08.299 --> 00:13:09.419 street. You need to know whether or not this 00:13:09.419 --> 00:13:11.639 substance is meth, cocaine, marijuana, whatever. 00:13:12.129 --> 00:13:14.830 But from a user aspect, I think it's a false 00:13:14.830 --> 00:13:16.990 sense of security. When I know of one story where 00:13:16.990 --> 00:13:18.990 some young people bought a pill for everyone 00:13:18.990 --> 00:13:21.009 and then one extra pill that they tested and 00:13:21.009 --> 00:13:23.110 that pill tested negative. So they all thought, 00:13:23.110 --> 00:13:25.110 we're good to go. This one's negative. And one 00:13:25.110 --> 00:13:27.909 of the children died because his pill wasn't 00:13:27.909 --> 00:13:30.230 negative. And that's the dangers of putting all 00:13:30.230 --> 00:13:32.129 our eggs into one basket, thinking that these 00:13:32.129 --> 00:13:34.269 are going to save people. And I just, I don't 00:13:34.269 --> 00:13:35.809 know, I have problems with that. So they're coming 00:13:35.809 --> 00:13:38.590 out of a high -class manufacturing facility for 00:13:38.590 --> 00:13:40.909 normal pharmaceuticals. Exactly. The last couple 00:13:40.909 --> 00:13:42.840 of labs I went into. They're one, both of them 00:13:42.840 --> 00:13:44.980 had blenders. One of them had a sifter, literally 00:13:44.980 --> 00:13:47.240 a sifter. Where they're just sifting this stuff 00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:51.539 together. There's no quality control. So, correct 00:13:51.539 --> 00:13:52.980 me if I'm wrong. I'm looking at your bio and 00:13:52.980 --> 00:13:55.059 it said you spent 28 years in law enforcement. 00:13:55.299 --> 00:13:58.120 23 of those was with DEA. What made you want 00:13:58.120 --> 00:14:01.159 to leave the street grind and hop over to DEA? 00:14:01.179 --> 00:14:03.039 Was there what you saw in the streets? Was there 00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:04.899 a particular incident or was it just a passion? 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:07.639 It was a passion. So, I grew up in Northern Virginia 00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:09.960 outside of Washington DC. And I'm not going to 00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:12.220 say that I grew up on the streets, but I certainly 00:14:12.220 --> 00:14:14.039 didn't grow up with a silver spoon in my mouth 00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:16.299 at all. I saw what drugs were doing early on 00:14:16.299 --> 00:14:18.940 in my life to people around me and it bothered 00:14:18.940 --> 00:14:22.169 me. And I made a decision actually when I was 00:14:22.169 --> 00:14:24.029 in high school that I wanted to work in drug 00:14:24.029 --> 00:14:25.710 enforcement, but we didn't have the internet. 00:14:25.889 --> 00:14:27.990 I had no idea what that meant. And the funny 00:14:27.990 --> 00:14:29.850 thing, I was actually, it was at a career fair 00:14:29.850 --> 00:14:32.370 at my high school and the DEA was there. I was 00:14:32.370 --> 00:14:34.009 just down the street from Quantico, Northern 00:14:34.009 --> 00:14:35.850 Virginia, which is unheard of. They don't typically 00:14:35.850 --> 00:14:37.769 go to colleges and stuff. And there was two guys 00:14:37.769 --> 00:14:39.649 there and they were talking about DEA and no 00:14:39.649 --> 00:14:41.549 idea what drug enforcement administration was. 00:14:41.570 --> 00:14:43.629 But I was like, wow, this is what I want to do. 00:14:43.830 --> 00:14:45.889 And I just was able, I just, I got lucky and 00:14:45.889 --> 00:14:48.269 just kept that goal in mind and became a police 00:14:48.269 --> 00:14:50.379 officer. Loved it. Absolutely loved it. Learned 00:14:50.379 --> 00:14:52.500 a lot about myself. Learned that no one ever 00:14:52.500 --> 00:14:55.629 takes responsibility. Everyone lies. And there's 00:14:55.629 --> 00:14:58.029 a lot of evil people out there who do incredibly 00:14:58.029 --> 00:15:00.750 horrible things to other individuals. But I did 00:15:00.750 --> 00:15:03.330 that for five years and then was fortunate enough 00:15:03.330 --> 00:15:05.870 to get a spot with DEA. That's the dream. A lot 00:15:05.870 --> 00:15:07.970 of people shoot for it. It's comparatively, I 00:15:07.970 --> 00:15:09.730 think there's only 10 ,000 people or something 00:15:09.730 --> 00:15:12.149 in the DEA. So it's a hard spot to get in and 00:15:12.149 --> 00:15:14.529 most people retire out once they get locked into 00:15:14.529 --> 00:15:17.509 that gig. Yeah, it's just not too bad. Yeah. 00:15:18.950 --> 00:15:20.590 Whereabouts in Northern Virginia? I'm actually 00:15:20.590 --> 00:15:22.750 located in Northern Virginia. Okay. I was in 00:15:22.750 --> 00:15:26.700 Prince William County. Woodbridge, aka Hoodbridge 00:15:26.700 --> 00:15:28.460 area. Yeah, that's still, we still call it to 00:15:28.460 --> 00:15:34.120 that day. Yeah, that whole area down there and 00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:36.519 it's just gotten worse and worse. Yeah, I actually, 00:15:36.519 --> 00:15:38.860 I worked in Fairfax County as a law enforcement 00:15:38.860 --> 00:15:40.879 officer that I finished my career in Leesburg. 00:15:40.980 --> 00:15:43.500 I started a while back at Cincinnati. So I took 00:15:43.500 --> 00:15:45.340 a little bit easier route when I came to Northern 00:15:45.340 --> 00:15:47.460 Virginia. But yeah, know that area with a partner 00:15:47.460 --> 00:15:48.940 with that law enforcement agent out there quite 00:15:48.940 --> 00:15:50.700 a bit as well. That's awesome. Getting back to 00:15:50.700 --> 00:15:52.179 Venezuela, because I know a lot of people are 00:15:52.179 --> 00:15:55.019 just super interested in this topic, but have 00:15:55.019 --> 00:15:57.480 you seen it show up in your work? Like cases 00:15:57.480 --> 00:15:59.960 leading to Venezuela, prosecutions that you work? 00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:03.460 I don't understand it, like how Venezuela really 00:16:03.460 --> 00:16:05.019 plays into it. Usually you hear about Mexico, 00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:06.659 you hear about Colombia, you hear about some 00:16:06.659 --> 00:16:08.279 of the South American countries, but you generally 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:10.000 don't hear a lot about Venezuela. So have you 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:11.559 seen it shown up in your work? Yeah. There are 00:16:11.559 --> 00:16:13.940 tons of DEA cases that tie back to Venezuela. 00:16:14.179 --> 00:16:16.059 Like I said, their president has been involved 00:16:16.059 --> 00:16:18.139 with trafficking for a long time, and Cartel 00:16:18.139 --> 00:16:20.559 de Sons. There's so many links to drug trafficking 00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:23.500 in that region of the world, specifically cocaine. 00:16:23.980 --> 00:16:25.840 Like I said, I think there's something greater 00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:28.740 going on than just the drugs right now, politically. 00:16:29.769 --> 00:16:32.029 The VA's worked up a plethora of cases in that 00:16:32.029 --> 00:16:34.289 region. Me personally, no, I wasn't assigned 00:16:34.289 --> 00:16:37.129 down there. Most of our cases in the US, domestic, 00:16:37.309 --> 00:16:39.549 if we had an international connection, it was 00:16:39.549 --> 00:16:43.769 99 .9 % of the time it was Mexico. And now, even 00:16:43.769 --> 00:16:46.210 now, the emphasis is still the big two cartels 00:16:46.210 --> 00:16:49.070 in Mexico, the Cartel Alisco, CJ &G, and the 00:16:49.070 --> 00:16:51.669 Sinaloa Cartel, so CDS. That's helpful. Thank 00:16:51.669 --> 00:16:53.490 you for that. I'll mention this politically, 00:16:53.730 --> 00:16:56.090 and maybe I shouldn't, but... President Trump 00:16:56.090 --> 00:16:59.090 just pardoned Honduras president, former president 00:16:59.090 --> 00:17:03.590 Juan Orlando, and that one puzzles me. And I'm 00:17:03.590 --> 00:17:05.930 hired from DEA, so I can tell you this. I don't 00:17:05.930 --> 00:17:07.710 know that you'll find an active DEA agent that 00:17:07.710 --> 00:17:09.970 can go on record and say this, but I mean... 00:17:09.829 --> 00:17:12.329 You're talking, I don't remember the exact amount, 00:17:12.490 --> 00:17:15.009 four or 500 tons of cocaine that they could tie 00:17:15.009 --> 00:17:17.049 back to this. Tons. We're not talking a couple 00:17:17.049 --> 00:17:19.250 of crams. Give this guy a pardon. It's just, 00:17:19.250 --> 00:17:21.450 I don't get it. I'm not political. I don't care 00:17:21.450 --> 00:17:23.769 how people vote either way. In fact, I try to 00:17:23.769 --> 00:17:26.170 be real careful with a nonprofit to toe the middle 00:17:26.170 --> 00:17:28.230 line there, but I do have an opinion and I'll 00:17:28.230 --> 00:17:30.109 support things that this president's done and 00:17:30.109 --> 00:17:32.109 I'll not support things this president has done. 00:17:32.190 --> 00:17:34.589 I try to look at it from a clear lens and not 00:17:34.589 --> 00:17:37.289 a biased political lens. How do you, I'm all 00:17:37.289 --> 00:17:39.210 for destroying the votes. I have no problem with 00:17:39.210 --> 00:17:40.990 it. I really don't I know some people do but 00:17:40.990 --> 00:17:43.190 then you pardon a guy who look into this guy 00:17:43.190 --> 00:17:45.809 He was a major drug trafficker. This wasn't like 00:17:45.809 --> 00:17:47.549 the guy at the end of the block This was this 00:17:47.549 --> 00:17:49.769 guy's a big deal and a lot of folks lost their 00:17:49.769 --> 00:17:51.789 life because of this guy I'm vaguely familiar 00:17:51.789 --> 00:17:53.890 with that. Do you know the reason for the pardon? 00:17:54.130 --> 00:17:55.809 Was it one given? I haven't been able to read 00:17:55.809 --> 00:17:57.970 any news today. I haven't seen anything prior 00:17:57.970 --> 00:17:59.789 to today other than the pardon I think there 00:17:59.789 --> 00:18:01.890 was another pardon that was took precedent today 00:18:01.890 --> 00:18:03.529 some Russian guy I haven't even been able to 00:18:03.529 --> 00:18:05.369 look into that one as well, but I don't know 00:18:05.369 --> 00:18:07.069 it doesn't seem like there could be a good reason 00:18:07.069 --> 00:18:09.259 I just don't know there's a couple pardons that 00:18:09.259 --> 00:18:11.500 have puzzled me. Russ Albright, the creator of 00:18:11.500 --> 00:18:13.500 the Silk Road dark web. I teach a lot of dark 00:18:13.500 --> 00:18:15.519 web stuff. That one really puzzled me. I know 00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:17.519 that the libertarians were excited about that, 00:18:17.539 --> 00:18:19.660 but this one was a shot in the face to DEA. It 00:18:19.660 --> 00:18:22.339 really was. This guy was a major turd. So you 00:18:22.339 --> 00:18:24.359 bring up the dark web. In your experience of 00:18:24.359 --> 00:18:27.619 your career, how much of a role does the dark 00:18:27.619 --> 00:18:29.980 web play in drug trafficking? It's played quite 00:18:29.980 --> 00:18:32.279 a bitter role. A lot of folks, not just the dark 00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:34.519 web, it's social media itself. A lot of folks, 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:37.319 it's easy to buy dope online. The days of going 00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:39.940 to CDA neighborhoods and trying to pick out the 00:18:39.940 --> 00:18:42.839 drug deal, that happens certainly, but it's so 00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:45.779 easy to go online and to Snapchat, the meta platform, 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:48.220 Facebook, Instagram, and find dope. It really 00:18:48.220 --> 00:18:50.740 is. The dark web is the criminal marketplaces. 00:18:50.799 --> 00:18:52.420 I don't know if you've ever been on those marketplaces, 00:18:52.519 --> 00:18:55.059 but within 30 seconds you're online into those 00:18:55.059 --> 00:18:57.160 marketplaces. You can have that dope delivered 00:18:57.160 --> 00:18:59.720 directly to your home. And just the volume of 00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:01.440 packages being shipped all around the world is 00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:03.960 just too overwhelming for law enforcement canines 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:07.200 or FedEx, UPS, the delivery services to actually 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:09.720 stop it. But yeah, it's prevalent and it's interesting. 00:19:10.019 --> 00:19:12.440 I teach especially, usually almost always to 00:19:12.440 --> 00:19:14.339 law enforcement when I talk dark web. And I've 00:19:14.339 --> 00:19:16.380 seen this evolution where the criminal marketplaces 00:19:16.380 --> 00:19:18.200 really took off, especially after Silk Road. 00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:20.119 That's why I was against the pardon of that idiot. 00:19:20.420 --> 00:19:22.680 Sorry. No, it's all good. And there were a couple 00:19:22.680 --> 00:19:24.740 of exit scams on the dark web and a couple of 00:19:24.740 --> 00:19:26.319 other things. And what I mean by that is let's 00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:28.109 say the three of us got together and developed 00:19:28.109 --> 00:19:30.289 our own marketplace and we got it up and going 00:19:30.289 --> 00:19:32.450 and we let people buy and sell drugs and murder 00:19:32.450 --> 00:19:34.809 for hire and guns and child porn and all the 00:19:34.809 --> 00:19:36.849 other disgusting stuff online. And then all of 00:19:36.849 --> 00:19:38.970 a sudden we just pull the plug and all that money 00:19:38.970 --> 00:19:40.670 that's sitting there, especially all the crypto 00:19:40.670 --> 00:19:42.789 that's sitting in the escrow, we run with it 00:19:42.789 --> 00:19:44.589 and it's usually millions of dollars, literally 00:19:44.589 --> 00:19:47.089 millions of dollars. And it's interesting, the 00:19:47.089 --> 00:19:49.089 deeper I dove into that and even started speaking 00:19:49.089 --> 00:19:51.650 to folks who were involved in this criminal side, 00:19:51.690 --> 00:19:54.490 it really eroded the trust of the dark web. And 00:19:54.490 --> 00:19:55.930 there's still a lot of folks that use it. I'm 00:19:55.930 --> 00:19:57.869 not going to be naive. and think that it's in 00:19:57.869 --> 00:19:59.990 a way with criminal activity. But because of 00:19:59.990 --> 00:20:02.369 that, and at the same time, because of the advancements 00:20:02.369 --> 00:20:04.630 of technology, encryption, the apps that are 00:20:04.630 --> 00:20:06.630 right on our phone, we're seeing an increase 00:20:06.630 --> 00:20:09.890 in illegal criminal activity on apps like Telegram. 00:20:10.009 --> 00:20:12.349 That's a big one. Discord. We see some stuff 00:20:12.349 --> 00:20:14.930 on Discord. A kick. Just some of the apps that 00:20:14.930 --> 00:20:16.829 use the encryption and have these little private 00:20:16.829 --> 00:20:19.230 message boards, it's incredible. And people find 00:20:19.230 --> 00:20:21.710 these message boards and they buy their illegal 00:20:21.710 --> 00:20:24.170 contraband all the time. So it's not only the 00:20:24.170 --> 00:20:26.230 dark web now, it's just literally right on our. 00:20:26.639 --> 00:20:30.019 Right. Now, how much influence does the cartel 00:20:30.019 --> 00:20:32.359 have or play in the dark web? Is it limited? 00:20:32.940 --> 00:20:35.319 I assume it's maybe someone maybe purchasing 00:20:35.319 --> 00:20:37.440 direct from the cartels and then they set up 00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:40.039 their own app. Is the cartel heavily in the dark 00:20:40.039 --> 00:20:42.680 web or how does that work? Yeah, from my experience, 00:20:42.740 --> 00:20:45.480 my perspective, it's going to be more of we're 00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:48.960 supplied by someone at a high level and maybe 00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:50.819 I don't know how many levels above them would 00:20:50.819 --> 00:20:53.019 be quote unquote cartel member. But like I said, 00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:54.759 let's say the three of us decide to sell dope 00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:57.259 online. We have a good hook, we have a good connect, 00:20:57.299 --> 00:20:59.599 but as long as we're getting what we need, then 00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:02.319 we can be successful selling dope online. The 00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:04.640 cartel itself, sure, I'm sure there's some members 00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:06.319 here and there, but from my experience, it's 00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:08.380 mainly just, they're just part of the supply 00:21:08.380 --> 00:21:10.579 chain. They're just the wholesalers pretty much. 00:21:11.059 --> 00:21:13.619 They're not involved in the retail side so much. 00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:16.519 Yeah, exactly. You mentioned crypto in one of 00:21:16.519 --> 00:21:19.279 your statements. I know, I think maybe it's the 00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:21.920 regulations changing in this country, but for 00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:24.000 the most part, it's fairly anonymous. In your 00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:26.559 career, how often did you run up against trying 00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:29.079 to have to deal with that? Towards the end of 00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:31.319 it, quite a bit more in our investigations, we 00:21:31.319 --> 00:21:33.619 were seeing links to cryptocurrency. In fact, 00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:35.839 I remember the last year of my career, we had 00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:38.319 a pretty high level drug trafficker who was using 00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:40.720 his money to get into coin. mining, where we 00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:43.420 actually had a pretty impressive rig, a small 00:21:43.420 --> 00:21:45.660 building full of computers. And it was all dope 00:21:45.660 --> 00:21:47.980 money. It was all dope proceeds that was funding 00:21:47.980 --> 00:21:51.980 this. But yeah, the last few years or more, I 00:21:51.980 --> 00:21:54.180 think that's been pretty prevalent in a lot of 00:21:54.180 --> 00:21:56.400 really big investigations. It's just another 00:21:56.400 --> 00:21:58.559 form of currency that's easy to move. It's the 00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:01.140 days of moving duffel bags worth of cash still 00:22:01.140 --> 00:22:03.660 happen, but it's a lot easier for me to just 00:22:03.660 --> 00:22:05.599 hit a button on a computer. And now you have 00:22:05.599 --> 00:22:07.660 a million dollars sitting on your computer that 00:22:07.660 --> 00:22:10.170 you can off to your wallet. from there, but yeah, 00:22:10.210 --> 00:22:12.089 it's definitely a lot more prevalent. And the 00:22:12.089 --> 00:22:14.049 problem is I've really seen the learning curve 00:22:14.049 --> 00:22:15.950 for law enforcement behind the learning curve. 00:22:16.089 --> 00:22:18.549 When I've seen it myself, investigators will 00:22:18.549 --> 00:22:20.490 say, oh, cryptocurrency, and it's just way over 00:22:20.490 --> 00:22:22.289 their head, and they're just intimidated by it, 00:22:22.289 --> 00:22:24.569 and they don't give it the time they need. And 00:22:24.569 --> 00:22:27.430 thankfully, we're starting to catch up. We're 00:22:27.430 --> 00:22:29.210 starting to learn what this is and how we can 00:22:29.210 --> 00:22:31.230 be successful in investigating it. And that's 00:22:31.230 --> 00:22:32.869 one of the things I talk about, especially to 00:22:32.869 --> 00:22:35.329 patrol officers and investigators at police departments 00:22:35.329 --> 00:22:37.170 and sheriff's offices, is what do you do when 00:22:37.170 --> 00:22:39.690 you get these calls? the fraud calls. We can 00:22:39.690 --> 00:22:41.730 show you how you can, there's software out there 00:22:41.730 --> 00:22:43.910 like Chain Analysis, TRM Labs. There's a bunch 00:22:43.910 --> 00:22:46.049 of companies out there who look at this raw data 00:22:46.049 --> 00:22:48.329 on the Explorer sites and they figure out where 00:22:48.329 --> 00:22:50.529 the money is moving and try to identify it in 00:22:50.529 --> 00:22:52.430 exchange and give law enforcement a fighting 00:22:52.430 --> 00:22:54.849 chance to seize that money and hopefully recover 00:22:54.849 --> 00:22:56.869 it for the victim. But anyway, more and more 00:22:56.869 --> 00:22:59.779 cryptocurrency for sure. In your experience as 00:22:59.779 --> 00:23:01.660 like Bitcoin and different cryptocurrencies, 00:23:01.799 --> 00:23:04.079 are they truly untraceable where you can't identify 00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:06.160 who actually received it? No, not with Bitcoin. 00:23:06.380 --> 00:23:09.220 So Moreno is a privacy coin. That one is virtually 00:23:09.220 --> 00:23:11.299 impossible to track. So with Bitcoin, you have 00:23:11.299 --> 00:23:13.799 the blockchain and blockchain is really technical, 00:23:13.799 --> 00:23:16.319 but the best way, cash is anonymous. So let's 00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:19.140 just say that I sell you both a kilo of cocaine 00:23:19.140 --> 00:23:22.220 for $40 ,000. Unless you guys cooperate, unless 00:23:22.220 --> 00:23:24.440 there's a witness, unless there's a video, there's 00:23:24.440 --> 00:23:27.339 no record of this transaction between the cocaine 00:23:27.339 --> 00:23:30.250 and the cash. cryptocurrency, or at least Bitcoin 00:23:30.250 --> 00:23:32.690 and cryptocurrency that uses blockchain, that's 00:23:32.690 --> 00:23:35.670 not entirely true. So we have the transaction 00:23:35.670 --> 00:23:38.190 itself is going to be on the blockchain forever. 00:23:38.309 --> 00:23:40.769 You can look at every single transaction on Bitcoin 00:23:40.769 --> 00:23:44.289 since the Genesis back in 2009. So it doesn't 00:23:44.289 --> 00:23:47.369 say that Brian Townsend sold these guys a kilo 00:23:47.369 --> 00:23:50.809 of coke. On this day and on this time, $40 ,000 00:23:50.809 --> 00:23:53.329 was transferred from this wallet to this wallet. 00:23:53.490 --> 00:23:55.589 So from the law enforcement perspective, let's 00:23:55.589 --> 00:23:58.210 say now let's tie that into One of us is a, I'm 00:23:58.210 --> 00:24:01.569 a victim. I lost $10 ,000 in a scam via cryptocurrency, 00:24:01.769 --> 00:24:04.150 via Bitcoin. Now you know who X is. X is me, 00:24:04.150 --> 00:24:06.569 because I'm the victim. You can see the transaction 00:24:06.569 --> 00:24:08.269 because that's on the blockchain. You can see 00:24:08.269 --> 00:24:11.029 that $10 ,000 went from let's say some crypto 00:24:11.029 --> 00:24:14.170 ATM to some unknown wallet. So now law enforcement's 00:24:14.170 --> 00:24:16.250 job is to figure out what wallet went to, what 00:24:16.250 --> 00:24:17.849 exchange it went to, you know, whether money 00:24:17.849 --> 00:24:19.490 is still there, whether it's been transferred 00:24:19.490 --> 00:24:22.150 again, and then exploit it and use the judicial 00:24:22.150 --> 00:24:24.410 system to hopefully, like I said, freeze and 00:24:24.410 --> 00:24:26.289 recover that money. I assume it's probably pretty 00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:29.259 difficult to identify who the receiving crypto 00:24:29.259 --> 00:24:31.539 wallet belongs to unless somehow you get lucky 00:24:31.539 --> 00:24:34.200 and catch somebody randomly? Or is there a way 00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:36.240 to tie that back to a particular individual? 00:24:36.539 --> 00:24:37.960 Yeah. And that's the whole, that's the secret 00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:40.599 sauce right there. If you're doing, if you guys 00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:43.099 or anyone listening is involved in cryptocurrency 00:24:43.099 --> 00:24:46.140 and you use a wallet, a custodial wallet, Coinbase, 00:24:46.380 --> 00:24:49.259 Robinhood, Binance, crypto .com, there's a million 00:24:49.259 --> 00:24:51.579 of them out there. They're like banks. So if 00:24:51.579 --> 00:24:53.680 right now we go to, I don't know, what's a national 00:24:53.680 --> 00:24:55.799 bank, like Bank of America or Wells Far - or 00:24:55.799 --> 00:24:57.440 something like that. You can't just go in there 00:24:57.440 --> 00:24:59.759 and say, oh, my name is Joe Blow. Give me an 00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:01.220 account. They're going to want your driver's 00:25:01.220 --> 00:25:03.279 license, probably a pint of blood, and you're 00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:05.160 for porn. We're going to want some things. Yes, 00:25:05.480 --> 00:25:07.759 cryptocurrency exchanges have to follow the same 00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:10.299 laws, the PSA, the AML, the money laundering 00:25:10.299 --> 00:25:13.400 laws. It's called know your customer, KYC. So 00:25:13.400 --> 00:25:15.839 if you right now, you go online and you go to, 00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:17.559 I don't know, let's say Coinbase, you develop 00:25:17.559 --> 00:25:19.680 an account, you have to prove who you are. You 00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:21.880 have to upload your, again, your driver's license, 00:25:21.900 --> 00:25:25.400 things like that. So now we have way to trace 00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:27.059 that money because like I said that money is 00:25:27.059 --> 00:25:28.779 on the blockchain or at least the transactions 00:25:28.779 --> 00:25:31.299 on the blockchain. So if we can trace that transaction 00:25:31.299 --> 00:25:35.319 to Coinbase to wallet number 123. Then law enforcement 00:25:35.319 --> 00:25:37.440 can contact Coinbase and say, okay, we need to 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:39.619 know who the owner of wallet one, two, three 00:25:39.619 --> 00:25:41.700 is. And because they have to follow the law, 00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:43.400 they're going to have your information. Now, 00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:45.380 obviously criminals know that and there's other, 00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:47.660 this can get really technical, it hasn't already, 00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:50.440 but there's exchanges in North Korea or Russia. 00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:52.700 Of course they're not going to follow or be compliant 00:25:52.700 --> 00:25:54.839 to U .S. law. So if we contact them in North 00:25:54.839 --> 00:25:56.420 Korea and say, hey, we need to know the owner 00:25:56.420 --> 00:25:57.920 of wallet one, two, three, they're probably going 00:25:57.920 --> 00:25:59.720 to tell us to pound sand. Are you seeing this 00:25:59.720 --> 00:26:01.660 as a major part of the drug trade or is this 00:26:01.660 --> 00:26:03.519 still like an emerging market and like crypto? 00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:06.160 still very new for them and so cash is king. 00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:08.440 Cash is king. Absolutely. Because at the end 00:26:08.440 --> 00:26:10.240 of the day, let's say I'm a drug trafficker and 00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:12.359 all my transactions are in cryptocurrency coin 00:26:12.359 --> 00:26:14.799 or whatever. I can't go to the club with Bitcoin. 00:26:18.779 --> 00:26:21.220 have to convert that to cash at some point. But 00:26:21.220 --> 00:26:23.119 at the end of the day, cash is king, especially 00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:25.539 the drug traffickers. So we all know Mexico's 00:26:25.539 --> 00:26:27.680 government's heavily infiltrated by the cartels. 00:26:27.880 --> 00:26:30.059 Have you seen that pop up in the United States, 00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:33.480 particularly on border towns like in Texas, Arizona? 00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:36.779 I often wonder because the reach is fairly broad, 00:26:37.119 --> 00:26:39.019 especially sharing a southern border with us. 00:26:39.099 --> 00:26:42.000 Have you had any busts or heard any stories about 00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:44.599 politicians, maybe not necessarily someone in 00:26:44.599 --> 00:26:47.240 the Senate or Congress, but maybe local politicians 00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:50.779 on the border town? being corrupted, influenced, 00:26:51.099 --> 00:26:53.700 controlled by the cartels in any form? Yeah, 00:26:53.740 --> 00:26:57.720 we have. I got to be careful here. We've also 00:26:57.720 --> 00:27:00.259 had law enforcement as well. Very few. It's not 00:27:00.259 --> 00:27:01.940 a major issue within law enforcement, but it 00:27:01.940 --> 00:27:03.859 does happen on the United States side. I worked 00:27:03.859 --> 00:27:06.660 down in South Texas for seven years. Our office 00:27:06.660 --> 00:27:08.440 was in Corpus, but most of our work was in the 00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:11.000 McGowan area or Brownsville, that area of the 00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:13.240 country. And so I'm familiar with that part of 00:27:13.240 --> 00:27:17.259 Mexico, Reynosa. And the golf cartel really controls 00:27:17.259 --> 00:27:19.039 that area and they were fighting with the Los 00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:20.720 Santos. And we were dealing with that quite a 00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:22.779 bit. A lot of corruption on their side of the 00:27:22.779 --> 00:27:25.799 border, 100%. No question. That's still a problem. 00:27:26.140 --> 00:27:28.220 Yeah, we saw it on this side of the border. Wasn't 00:27:28.220 --> 00:27:30.799 as bad, not even close to what it was on the 00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:33.700 Mexican side. But yeah, I mean, we definitely 00:27:33.700 --> 00:27:36.200 experienced it at times, but it was more for 00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:38.940 us. It was more of certain law enforcement officials 00:27:38.940 --> 00:27:42.559 that... occasional bad board patrol officer or 00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:44.920 agent. It wasn't like a daily occurrence or anything 00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:46.839 like that, but it certainly did happen. And we 00:27:46.839 --> 00:27:48.859 certainly did see it and we had to mitigate that 00:27:48.859 --> 00:27:50.940 and be careful and keep our operations safe, 00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:52.700 keep our informants safe. A lot of the times 00:27:52.700 --> 00:27:54.940 you hear on news or perhaps though, not very 00:27:54.940 --> 00:27:57.400 real. You watch Netflix shows and you see like 00:27:57.400 --> 00:28:00.079 FBI interacting with the DEA and they're like 00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:01.460 button heads and they're blocking each other. 00:28:01.480 --> 00:28:03.559 Is there any reality to that in real life? Yeah, 00:28:03.559 --> 00:28:05.420 a little bit, but it's, I don't know that it's 00:28:05.420 --> 00:28:08.099 necessarily agency specific. It's person specific. 00:28:08.180 --> 00:28:11.019 I had pretty good real life. I think coming from 00:28:11.019 --> 00:28:14.039 a local agency, I understood that world and I 00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:16.299 think it gave me a little bit of cred when I 00:28:16.299 --> 00:28:18.339 would go into a police department or sheriff's 00:28:18.339 --> 00:28:20.119 office. It wasn't just all the feds are here. 00:28:20.279 --> 00:28:21.660 In fact, there's sometimes when I teach there's 00:28:21.660 --> 00:28:23.640 a guy that introduces me and sometimes if it's 00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:25.539 law enforcement only he'll say, it's okay guys. 00:28:25.640 --> 00:28:29.759 He was a real cop as well. There was a connection 00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:32.059 there. But yeah, it happens, but it's usually 00:28:32.059 --> 00:28:34.579 people specific. Unfortunately, those stereotypes 00:28:34.579 --> 00:28:37.759 exist and we all joke and we call the FBI fan 00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:42.170 belt inspectors and whatever. call us on every 00:28:42.170 --> 00:28:44.490 afternoon. There's a lot of riving going on. 00:28:44.609 --> 00:28:47.349 And I thankfully had amazing relationships with 00:28:47.349 --> 00:28:49.710 those agencies. I really did. My first assignment 00:28:49.710 --> 00:28:51.930 was in Little Rock, Arkansas. And we just got 00:28:51.930 --> 00:28:54.349 along really well with all the other federal 00:28:54.349 --> 00:28:56.450 agencies. And my second assignment, like I said, 00:28:56.470 --> 00:28:59.589 was in South Texas. And there were a couple agencies 00:28:59.589 --> 00:29:02.829 who did not like us. And there was a couple officers 00:29:02.829 --> 00:29:05.569 from one particular agency who would actively 00:29:05.569 --> 00:29:08.569 undermine any DEA investigation he could. And 00:29:08.569 --> 00:29:10.511 if he found out we had a target, he wouldn't 00:29:10.509 --> 00:29:13.190 do a knock and talk or he would somehow try to 00:29:13.190 --> 00:29:15.890 do a traffic. He literally would undermine our 00:29:15.890 --> 00:29:18.029 investigations. And it got to a point where I 00:29:18.029 --> 00:29:19.630 actually had to have a meeting with the higher 00:29:19.630 --> 00:29:21.769 ups in this agency and say, look, enough of this 00:29:21.769 --> 00:29:23.910 is silly. What's our goal here? Putting bad people 00:29:23.910 --> 00:29:26.670 in jail. Period. I don't, I'm not a camera hog. 00:29:26.789 --> 00:29:28.769 I don't need the credit. I let's put these bad 00:29:28.769 --> 00:29:30.329 people in jail. Let's hold them accountable for 00:29:30.329 --> 00:29:32.269 the things they do. We can't play these games. 00:29:32.450 --> 00:29:34.690 I've seen more of a problem with the lack of 00:29:34.690 --> 00:29:37.369 de -confliction. than I have with people butting 00:29:37.369 --> 00:29:39.410 heads like you see in the movies. That's the 00:29:39.410 --> 00:29:41.150 biggest problem I still see to this day. And 00:29:41.150 --> 00:29:42.990 it's something I train a lot when I talk to law 00:29:42.990 --> 00:29:45.910 enforcement is we have to de -conflict our investigations 00:29:45.910 --> 00:29:48.150 from many different reasons. One, from an officer 00:29:48.150 --> 00:29:50.769 safety perspective. You guys are working a case 00:29:50.769 --> 00:29:52.849 and I'm working a case. Who's to say that there's 00:29:52.849 --> 00:29:55.009 no blue on blue at some point? Because that happened 00:29:55.009 --> 00:29:57.250 because we didn't want to disclose the information 00:29:57.250 --> 00:29:59.809 in our investigation. And now maybe I'm working 00:29:59.809 --> 00:30:01.869 one of you and you're an undercover because you 00:30:01.869 --> 00:30:03.650 guys didn't de -conflict or because I didn't 00:30:03.650 --> 00:30:05.539 de -conflict. But anyway, I can go on. on this 00:30:05.539 --> 00:30:07.119 stuff, it drives me nuts. Did you spend a lot 00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:09.759 of time undercover or were you undercover? Yeah, 00:30:09.900 --> 00:30:12.200 yeah. A lot of time, no, but I certainly did 00:30:12.200 --> 00:30:15.400 it. I enjoyed it. A &E did a special called Undercover 00:30:15.400 --> 00:30:17.940 Caught on Tape. And I don't know if they still 00:30:17.940 --> 00:30:23.640 air this show, but season one, episode six is 00:30:23.640 --> 00:30:26.579 Undercover Caught on Tape. It's on A &E. It's 00:30:26.579 --> 00:30:28.500 season one, episode six. And if you watch the 00:30:28.500 --> 00:30:30.960 last 18 minutes, you'll see my ugly face talking 00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:34.259 about an operation you did. A little over 20 00:30:34.259 --> 00:30:37.039 years ago, it was actually needed. It was a high 00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:39.500 level methamphetamine and marijuana organization. 00:30:39.859 --> 00:30:43.400 And I was able to infiltrate the marijuana arm 00:30:43.400 --> 00:30:46.079 of the organization. And I met two members of 00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:48.799 the cartel. We were able to lure them to a hotel 00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:50.680 room outside of Dallas, Texas. And of course 00:30:50.680 --> 00:30:52.240 the whole thing's on video. And if you watch 00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:54.880 the episode, you'll see it unfold. How long were 00:30:54.880 --> 00:30:57.279 you undercover for? Most of, actually all, every 00:30:57.279 --> 00:30:59.380 single undercover operation ever worked. It was 00:30:59.380 --> 00:31:02.000 literally, I'd go in, meet someone, buy some 00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:04.420 dough. Hope. And then boom, I'm done. I would 00:31:04.420 --> 00:31:07.160 never live in an apartment and I had fictitious 00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:09.259 IDs and things like that, but I didn't, it wasn't 00:31:09.259 --> 00:31:11.059 like a biker gang type thing like you see in 00:31:11.059 --> 00:31:13.119 the movies, nothing like that. I never, all of 00:31:13.119 --> 00:31:15.720 mine were literally go meet this guy, buy dope 00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:17.880 from him, have a conversation with him, get a 00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:19.559 phone number from him, introduce him, inform 00:31:19.559 --> 00:31:21.819 him, whatever. And then boom, I'm out. And this 00:31:21.819 --> 00:31:24.019 one was, it wasn't even planned. It was a kind 00:31:24.019 --> 00:31:25.799 of a happenstance. It really worked out really 00:31:25.799 --> 00:31:28.440 well, but I was able to insert myself into the 00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:30.859 organization and convince them that I was a high 00:31:30.859 --> 00:31:34.470 level weed dealer. remove my source, who was 00:31:34.470 --> 00:31:36.369 who they were originally dealing with. And they 00:31:36.369 --> 00:31:37.809 were looking for him because they owed him a 00:31:37.809 --> 00:31:39.529 lot of money and they wanted to kill him. And 00:31:39.529 --> 00:31:41.049 so I was like, yeah, I'm looking for him too. 00:31:41.109 --> 00:31:43.309 Let's remove him from this chain, deal with me 00:31:43.309 --> 00:31:45.289 direct, and we won't worry about him anymore. 00:31:45.390 --> 00:31:47.329 And they bought it hook, line and sinker. You 00:31:47.329 --> 00:31:51.089 ever get scared doing that? Because you looked 00:31:51.089 --> 00:31:52.990 way too professional today. You know what? I 00:31:52.990 --> 00:31:55.170 didn't have any facial hair. I had, of course 00:31:55.170 --> 00:31:57.029 I just got my hair cut, but I always had short 00:31:57.029 --> 00:31:59.130 hair, never had facial hair. I don't know that 00:31:59.130 --> 00:32:01.210 I ever had any facial hair at all when any of 00:32:01.210 --> 00:32:03.269 the other... I remember one time I was working, 00:32:03.349 --> 00:32:05.349 we went into a really bad neighborhood and we 00:32:05.349 --> 00:32:07.750 were buying methamphetamine and cocaine and stuff. 00:32:07.869 --> 00:32:10.150 And I would just, I'd wear baggy pants and a 00:32:10.150 --> 00:32:12.450 ball cap. And I would just act like a punk college 00:32:12.450 --> 00:32:15.910 kid or a young executive. And I was buying quantity 00:32:15.910 --> 00:32:18.490 of dope and it worked. As far as being scared, 00:32:18.490 --> 00:32:20.269 I don't want to sound cocky because I'm not, 00:32:20.269 --> 00:32:23.250 I'm not Superman, but I really trusted my team 00:32:23.250 --> 00:32:25.430 and our operational planning. That's something 00:32:25.430 --> 00:32:28.269 we're really good at DEA is we really think about 00:32:28.269 --> 00:32:30.690 how things can go wrong, how shit can go bad. 00:32:30.599 --> 00:32:33.099 fast and we try to mitigate that. Not to say 00:32:33.099 --> 00:32:35.099 that we don't get in shootings and bad things 00:32:35.099 --> 00:32:37.359 don't happen, but I just had an amazing team 00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:39.579 around me. Surrounded myself with really professional 00:32:39.579 --> 00:32:41.819 people and we just planned very well. So I felt 00:32:41.819 --> 00:32:44.119 very confident in these situations. Yeah, that's 00:32:44.119 --> 00:32:45.599 important. Sometimes in the local law enforcement 00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:48.559 has started doing narcotics at the local level. 00:32:48.680 --> 00:32:50.339 Sometimes it was just a radio and a gun and you'd 00:32:50.339 --> 00:32:52.420 go out. Like we're talking many years ago and 00:32:52.420 --> 00:32:54.200 starting to work with the FBI. I don't know if 00:32:54.200 --> 00:32:56.200 I ever actually worked with the DEA before or 00:32:56.200 --> 00:32:58.099 not, but definitely extensive with the FBI and 00:32:58.099 --> 00:33:00.859 their planning is super extensive and they have 00:33:00.859 --> 00:33:03.019 tons of resources at their disposal. And you 00:33:03.019 --> 00:33:04.339 always feel confident when you went out with 00:33:04.339 --> 00:33:06.220 those guys because you had all the tools to play 00:33:06.220 --> 00:33:08.539 with. And it was a, it was good. Only thing I 00:33:08.539 --> 00:33:10.140 hate it doing with the FBI. And I can tell you, 00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:12.359 maybe DA is much like this, but it's search warrants. 00:33:12.440 --> 00:33:14.759 Cause as local cops, we go in, we tear up a house. 00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:16.559 We just, we're trying to find what we're looking 00:33:16.559 --> 00:33:19.220 for. FBI's know you got to put everything back 00:33:19.220 --> 00:33:23.440 to where it belonged. And I'm like, no. One of 00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:24.960 the first search warrants, federal search warrants 00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:28.119 we did with FBI, even the entry was, please let 00:33:28.119 --> 00:33:33.000 me come in. My boss was livid because he was 00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:34.400 like the most dangerous thing we've ever done 00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:36.220 in our life because we're sitting there all tacked, 00:33:36.220 --> 00:33:38.180 tacked up, ready to hit the house and they're 00:33:38.180 --> 00:33:39.859 literally knocking on the door. And I get it. 00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:41.859 We have to knock and announce time was going 00:33:41.859 --> 00:33:43.960 and that was the last time we ever did that. 00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:47.519 Yeah. They spent so long. Like I would just leave 00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:49.480 them at the scene. Like our search warrant was 00:33:49.480 --> 00:33:51.220 executed. We were done. They're like trying to 00:33:51.220 --> 00:33:52.819 pick up. I'm like, yeah, I got better stuff to 00:33:52.819 --> 00:33:56.180 do. I'm out guys. You enjoy. They're pretty thorough 00:33:56.180 --> 00:33:59.940 though. I get mad. One time we actually had a 00:33:59.940 --> 00:34:01.759 meeting, my last office, and we were like, you 00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:03.299 think we're missing stuff because we're going 00:34:03.299 --> 00:34:05.079 a little too fast. We got to figure this out 00:34:05.079 --> 00:34:06.759 a little bit better. We always had room assignments 00:34:06.759 --> 00:34:08.480 and things like that. You take the Northwest 00:34:08.480 --> 00:34:11.059 corner and blah, blah, blah. But yeah, the FBI, 00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:13.559 of course, they probably had 18 people just dedicated 00:34:13.559 --> 00:34:15.619 per task. Yeah. Their crime scene texts were 00:34:15.619 --> 00:34:18.639 great too, so we used them sometimes. You're 00:34:18.639 --> 00:34:20.829 absolutely right. They are. So tell us a little 00:34:20.829 --> 00:34:23.070 bit about your Eagle Six training. What's that 00:34:23.070 --> 00:34:26.449 all about? Yeah. So I retired from DEA in 2022 00:34:26.449 --> 00:34:29.710 and I started Eagle Six training and it's a training 00:34:29.710 --> 00:34:32.670 consulting business. And I do training and consulting, 00:34:32.849 --> 00:34:34.989 primarily leadership and not only law enforcement, 00:34:35.150 --> 00:34:37.150 but outside of law enforcement as well. I've 00:34:37.150 --> 00:34:39.050 always had an interest in training and teaching, 00:34:39.210 --> 00:34:41.090 speaking. It's just always been a passion of 00:34:41.090 --> 00:34:43.010 mine. I'm always the guy, even early on in my 00:34:43.010 --> 00:34:45.050 career, where they would say, Hey, the Rotary 00:34:45.050 --> 00:34:47.150 Club needs someone to come talk about DEA for 00:34:47.150 --> 00:34:49.099 30 minutes. I'm like, Oh, can I do it? I love 00:34:49.099 --> 00:34:51.440 doing that stuff. And I had an assignment at 00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:53.980 Quantico, DEA Quantico for about three and a 00:34:53.980 --> 00:34:55.960 half years. I was in charge of most student service 00:34:55.960 --> 00:34:58.019 training and actually got to start the leadership 00:34:58.019 --> 00:35:00.159 and development training unit for DEA at the 00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:01.659 Academy. And I'm real proud of that. I'm proud 00:35:01.659 --> 00:35:04.039 of the work we did. I had an amazing crew of 00:35:04.039 --> 00:35:06.500 folks that worked with me and it just, the fire 00:35:06.500 --> 00:35:08.780 was already gone. And then once I was there, 00:35:08.860 --> 00:35:11.519 it was, I knew this was going to be my post -DEA 00:35:11.519 --> 00:35:14.519 journey. And I left DEA when I could. I love, 00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:16.579 I'm still, I'm on the board of directors for 00:35:16.579 --> 00:35:19.139 the agents association. of friends there, but 00:35:19.139 --> 00:35:21.480 started Eagle Six training and it's been great. 00:35:21.739 --> 00:35:23.860 It's training is hard. I can tell you that it's 00:35:23.860 --> 00:35:25.860 the numbers are a lot lower than they used to 00:35:25.860 --> 00:35:28.300 be. And it's not just me. There's a lot of trainers 00:35:28.300 --> 00:35:30.059 who are having the same problem filling rooms 00:35:30.059 --> 00:35:32.099 where you used to have 30, 40 guys in a room 00:35:32.099 --> 00:35:34.800 from local agencies and how you get 15, 20. But 00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:37.300 anyway, that's a whole different wax there. That's 00:35:37.300 --> 00:35:38.699 staffing problems there. I was going to say, 00:35:38.699 --> 00:35:41.699 why is that? Because I remember back in my law 00:35:41.699 --> 00:35:43.360 enforcement days, signing up for in -service 00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:45.500 training was like awesome. You get to pick some 00:35:45.500 --> 00:35:47.940 good programs, learn some cool stuff. Why is 00:35:47.940 --> 00:35:51.300 it down? Staffing. Over the last five or six 00:35:51.300 --> 00:35:53.699 years, there's been a backlash at law enforcement. 00:35:53.800 --> 00:35:55.420 I think most people love law enforcement, but 00:35:55.420 --> 00:35:57.090 most people don't come out and say that. When 00:35:57.090 --> 00:35:59.510 somebody does something stupid and makes national 00:35:59.510 --> 00:36:02.050 news and then you have protests and whatever 00:36:02.050 --> 00:36:05.070 else, there's a lack of people. I'm sure when 00:36:05.070 --> 00:36:07.349 you applied for your job, you probably had hundreds 00:36:07.349 --> 00:36:09.389 of people looking for that one position. Same 00:36:09.389 --> 00:36:11.670 with me. We tested every six months. You could 00:36:11.670 --> 00:36:13.949 have zero spots. We still tested and we'd always 00:36:13.949 --> 00:36:16.269 have a couple hundred folks out there. Now it's 00:36:16.269 --> 00:36:18.050 complete opposite. There's some funny videos 00:36:18.050 --> 00:36:19.969 online where you'll see, hey, that application 00:36:19.969 --> 00:36:21.989 you put in 10 years ago, we're interested in 00:36:21.989 --> 00:36:25.250 you. I've been in prison for the last seven years. 00:36:25.269 --> 00:36:29.389 It doesn't matter. on it. That's true. You see 00:36:29.389 --> 00:36:31.349 it probably because the local law enforcement 00:36:31.349 --> 00:36:33.809 is really in the spotlight when it comes to national 00:36:33.809 --> 00:36:35.449 events that kind of make the headlines. Are you 00:36:35.449 --> 00:36:37.610 having those recruiting efforts along, like in 00:36:37.610 --> 00:36:40.289 the DEA as well? Absolutely. DEA is struggling, 00:36:40.570 --> 00:36:42.650 FBI, all the agencies are struggling. They're 00:36:42.650 --> 00:36:44.590 still hiring, still running academies, but it's 00:36:44.590 --> 00:36:46.650 not. When I applied, oh my goodness, probably 00:36:46.650 --> 00:36:49.190 five, 600 applications per hire. That was the 00:36:49.190 --> 00:36:51.670 norm for federal agencies and even the local 00:36:51.670 --> 00:36:53.530 and state law enforcement, but it's not like 00:36:53.530 --> 00:36:55.510 that anymore. It's creeping up in some areas 00:36:55.510 --> 00:36:57.590 of the country, but I can tell you I'm trained 00:36:57.590 --> 00:36:59.679 in in a couple dozen states now in the last couple 00:36:59.679 --> 00:37:01.820 of years, just primarily leadership. And I can 00:37:01.820 --> 00:37:03.119 tell you that, because I asked this question, 00:37:03.159 --> 00:37:05.380 how are you guys on staffing? And rarely do I 00:37:05.380 --> 00:37:08.320 hear we're full staff. So you have agencies that 00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:10.400 are down, especially some of these big agencies. 00:37:10.519 --> 00:37:12.440 You look at, anyway, some really big agencies 00:37:12.440 --> 00:37:14.880 that have 400 or 500 officers and they're down 00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:17.960 50 or 60. That's significant. And so now a lot 00:37:17.960 --> 00:37:20.139 of states have requirements for whether it's 00:37:20.139 --> 00:37:22.460 post or depending on what state you are, you 00:37:22.460 --> 00:37:24.940 have to have so many hours a year to continue 00:37:24.940 --> 00:37:27.059 your certification or whatever you call it. But 00:37:27.059 --> 00:37:29.500 a lot of these departments have gone online or 00:37:29.500 --> 00:37:31.719 they've figured out other ways to fulfill those 00:37:31.719 --> 00:37:34.139 needs. And that's just really, I think that's 00:37:34.139 --> 00:37:36.000 a disservice to our officers. Cause like you 00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:37.579 said, not only do you enjoy the service, you 00:37:37.579 --> 00:37:39.559 learn from it and you learn from the people sitting 00:37:39.559 --> 00:37:41.619 next to you. Think of all the networking and 00:37:41.619 --> 00:37:43.880 all the conversations you have when you're at 00:37:43.880 --> 00:37:46.099 a conference or you're at training. But yeah, 00:37:46.119 --> 00:37:47.860 the big thing is staffing. That's just really 00:37:47.860 --> 00:37:50.199 hurt training. Do you think it's affecting the 00:37:50.199 --> 00:37:52.440 quality of officers that are on the street today? 00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:54.159 Like our agencies lowering their standards of 00:37:54.159 --> 00:37:55.980 who they're hiring and do we have less qualified 00:37:55.980 --> 00:37:57.260 people? people out there today because of it? 00:37:57.280 --> 00:37:59.440 I have seen that and it scares me. And what I 00:37:59.440 --> 00:38:00.960 think is going to happen, and I hope I'm wrong. 00:38:00.980 --> 00:38:02.460 I really do. I hope in a couple of years, you 00:38:02.460 --> 00:38:04.780 guys call me and laugh in my face. I think in 00:38:04.780 --> 00:38:06.960 a couple of years, we're going to see some real 00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:10.179 bad incidents as these people continue to climb 00:38:10.179 --> 00:38:12.659 up in their agencies because they're not qualified. 00:38:12.760 --> 00:38:15.019 They're promoting. They're going to recruit the 00:38:15.019 --> 00:38:17.920 same type of people that they are. A lot of agencies 00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:20.780 have really increased, not increased, they're 00:38:20.780 --> 00:38:23.300 allowing certain criminal histories to come in. 00:38:23.420 --> 00:38:25.280 I don't know. Every so often I hear a department 00:38:25.289 --> 00:38:27.030 say we've actually increased our standards. And 00:38:27.030 --> 00:38:29.110 I think kudos to you, good job, but you've got 00:38:29.110 --> 00:38:31.690 to find other ways to recruit people, recruit 00:38:31.690 --> 00:38:33.369 talented people. Yeah. Cause you're officers 00:38:33.369 --> 00:38:35.230 today in 10 years, you're going to be your lieutenants, 00:38:35.289 --> 00:38:37.230 your captains, potentially your chiefs of police 00:38:37.230 --> 00:38:38.909 running those organizations. I think it's a little 00:38:38.909 --> 00:38:40.630 bit scary if you get the wrong people in place. 00:38:40.710 --> 00:38:43.349 It is right. I do a lot of leadership training 00:38:43.349 --> 00:38:45.429 and some of it's for specifically for lead law 00:38:45.429 --> 00:38:47.650 enforcement. And I can't tell you how many young 00:38:47.650 --> 00:38:49.670 lieutenants and captains and I'm not saying they're 00:38:49.670 --> 00:38:51.949 not qualified or they're incompetent, but come 00:38:51.949 --> 00:38:55.880 on now two years and you're a captain. I've seen 00:38:55.880 --> 00:38:58.159 that a lot and it just, it's crazy. It really 00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:00.239 is. You got to put some time on. You got to know, 00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:01.739 you got to figure out how the sausage is made 00:39:01.739 --> 00:39:03.559 before you start running the company. Yeah. Like 00:39:03.559 --> 00:39:05.699 they say, experience is the best teacher. That's 00:39:05.699 --> 00:39:07.440 a little scary if you don't get the experience. 00:39:07.900 --> 00:39:09.619 Absolutely. So in your Eagle Six trainings, are 00:39:09.619 --> 00:39:11.719 you outside of the leadership part? Are you training 00:39:11.719 --> 00:39:15.300 best practices, introducing new technology to 00:39:15.300 --> 00:39:17.760 whoever contracts with you or how does that work? 00:39:17.860 --> 00:39:19.800 Yeah. I'm really focused on the leadership and 00:39:19.800 --> 00:39:22.239 I really keep intentionally, I keep my leadership 00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:24.920 instruction very simple. I really truly... believe 00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:27.059 that leadership is simple. It's just something 00:39:27.059 --> 00:39:29.699 we choose not to do. And I have three concepts 00:39:29.699 --> 00:39:32.519 or principles. Leadership is intentional. Just 00:39:32.519 --> 00:39:34.519 because you're in a position of authority doesn't 00:39:34.519 --> 00:39:36.300 mean you're a leader. Just because someone gave 00:39:36.300 --> 00:39:38.420 you a rank, gave you a title, gave you a bigger 00:39:38.420 --> 00:39:40.280 office, doesn't mean you're a leader. A leader, 00:39:40.280 --> 00:39:41.739 and I don't take that from those people that 00:39:41.739 --> 00:39:43.559 are progressing in the agencies. Good for them, 00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:45.880 but that doesn't make them leaders. And in society, 00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:48.780 we have this organizational leader, city leader, 00:39:49.000 --> 00:39:51.420 a team leader. We always use this word really 00:39:51.420 --> 00:39:53.599 loosely, and I don't think that's a correct or 00:39:53.599 --> 00:39:56.050 fair - assessment of that word. The second concept 00:39:56.050 --> 00:39:58.789 I have is that everything that you do is impactful. 00:39:58.809 --> 00:40:01.269 If you take a position of authority in your organization, 00:40:01.389 --> 00:40:03.570 your team, whatever, everything you don't do 00:40:03.570 --> 00:40:05.610 is going to have an impact. And we dive deeper 00:40:05.610 --> 00:40:07.510 into these things. And then the third thing is 00:40:07.510 --> 00:40:09.469 leadership starts with yourself. You have to 00:40:09.469 --> 00:40:11.230 look in the mirror. If you're not willing to 00:40:11.230 --> 00:40:13.110 look in the mirror and fix yourself, then how 00:40:13.110 --> 00:40:14.530 in the hell are you ever going to help anyone 00:40:14.530 --> 00:40:16.889 else or help your organization? The analogy I 00:40:16.889 --> 00:40:19.449 use there is I travel a lot. I love to fly. And 00:40:19.449 --> 00:40:21.170 when you get on the airplane, that flight attendant 00:40:21.170 --> 00:40:22.750 always gives you that safety briefing that I 00:40:22.750 --> 00:40:24.369 know. most people don't listen to. He or she 00:40:24.369 --> 00:40:26.989 will say, if the cabin pressure drops, an oxygen 00:40:26.989 --> 00:40:28.809 mask will fall from the ceiling. Put your own 00:40:28.809 --> 00:40:30.869 mask on before you help anyone else. And I really 00:40:30.869 --> 00:40:32.809 think that's applicable into this leadership 00:40:32.809 --> 00:40:34.949 lesson and how I teach is because if you don't 00:40:34.949 --> 00:40:36.929 help yourself, don't look in the mirror and figure 00:40:36.929 --> 00:40:38.809 out, hey, how can I improve? How can I bring 00:40:38.809 --> 00:40:40.690 my A game? Then again, how are you ever going 00:40:40.690 --> 00:40:43.210 to be the best you can for the folks entrusted 00:40:43.210 --> 00:40:45.070 in your care or the folks that are around you? 00:40:45.090 --> 00:40:48.670 So my leadership training is really focused around 00:40:48.670 --> 00:40:51.170 those three core principles. It really is. And 00:40:51.170 --> 00:40:53.579 I like to do it facilitated conversations with 00:40:53.579 --> 00:40:55.480 people. Nothing against PowerPoint. I use it 00:40:55.480 --> 00:40:57.280 for other classes. But if you come to one of 00:40:57.280 --> 00:40:59.139 my leadership classes, you won't see a PowerPoint 00:40:59.139 --> 00:41:01.760 presentation. It is literally us talking. I love 00:41:01.760 --> 00:41:04.940 that. I think we all have something to say. We 00:41:04.940 --> 00:41:08.019 all like to talk. And when you're in a room with 00:41:08.019 --> 00:41:10.340 like -minded individuals and you have the ability 00:41:10.340 --> 00:41:13.639 to freely speak, you can really learn from each 00:41:13.639 --> 00:41:15.800 other and really increase your perspective. So 00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:17.960 I do some other things as well. I do some consulting. 00:41:18.159 --> 00:41:20.340 I mentioned that product earlier with the fentanyl 00:41:20.340 --> 00:41:22.400 wipes. That was a company. I was consulting with. 00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:24.480 They know I've navigated in the law enforcement 00:41:24.480 --> 00:41:26.900 world for 30 years. And even though I'm not active, 00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:28.880 I still work with law enforcement. I work for 00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:31.079 another organization where I train law enforcement. 00:41:31.219 --> 00:41:33.119 So they want my perspective. And there's other 00:41:33.119 --> 00:41:35.000 companies as well I work with. They want to know, 00:41:35.119 --> 00:41:37.179 is this a good product? What do cops think about 00:41:37.179 --> 00:41:39.199 this, et cetera, et cetera. And then you transferred 00:41:39.199 --> 00:41:41.239 that into your nonprofit. So you want to talk 00:41:41.239 --> 00:41:42.659 a little bit about your nonprofit? Yeah, I wear 00:41:42.659 --> 00:41:47.909 a lot of hats, right? Busy guy. I am. I started 00:41:47.909 --> 00:41:49.949 working for an intelligence center part -time 00:41:49.949 --> 00:41:52.090 and I'm a law enforcement training coordinator 00:41:52.090 --> 00:41:53.769 for them. And then they convinced me to work 00:41:53.769 --> 00:41:55.829 for them full -time and support law enforcement 00:41:55.829 --> 00:41:58.349 in nine states in the Midwest. And I was asked 00:41:58.349 --> 00:42:00.690 to build drug specific curriculum, obviously 00:42:00.690 --> 00:42:03.750 because of my history with DEA. And I built a 00:42:03.750 --> 00:42:06.570 opioids class that really focused on fentanyl. 00:42:06.630 --> 00:42:09.349 And this was in October of 2022 and it just took 00:42:09.349 --> 00:42:12.070 off. It was built specifically at the time for 00:42:12.070 --> 00:42:14.090 law enforcement. And then almost immediately 00:42:14.090 --> 00:42:16.469 we brought it to... law enforcement, which was 00:42:16.469 --> 00:42:18.670 primarily other first responders, firefighters, 00:42:18.969 --> 00:42:21.449 EMS, and then some teachers and the recovery 00:42:21.449 --> 00:42:24.010 community, educators, politicians in there as 00:42:24.010 --> 00:42:25.809 well. And it just took off. It really did. And 00:42:25.809 --> 00:42:27.250 I thought, wow, there's something here. And I've 00:42:27.250 --> 00:42:29.869 always felt this need to serve people. I know 00:42:29.869 --> 00:42:32.389 it sounds Boy Scout -ish, but one of the reasons, 00:42:32.489 --> 00:42:33.969 another reason I got into law enforcement is 00:42:33.969 --> 00:42:36.190 because I really feel a sense of purpose through 00:42:36.190 --> 00:42:38.769 public service. And when I retired, I didn't 00:42:38.769 --> 00:42:42.630 have that anymore. And I found that when I was 00:42:42.630 --> 00:42:45.010 doing this and I was helping people and the stories 00:42:45.010 --> 00:42:47.719 I would hear and the people I was meeting. And 00:42:47.719 --> 00:42:49.659 it's just amplified. It's gotten more and more. 00:42:49.719 --> 00:42:51.440 I can't tell you how many families I've spoken 00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:53.760 to, how many folks I know now who have struggled 00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:56.760 with substance use, lost loved ones to substance 00:42:56.760 --> 00:42:59.820 use. And it just evolved. It evolved into me 00:42:59.820 --> 00:43:02.199 starting a nonprofit organization. I called a 00:43:02.199 --> 00:43:04.480 bunch of my retired buddies at DEA and said, 00:43:04.500 --> 00:43:06.380 I want to do this. And they're like, you're crazy. 00:43:06.400 --> 00:43:07.800 And I said, I need your help. And they said, 00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:11.239 sure. So my entire board is retired DEA. We just 00:43:11.239 --> 00:43:13.139 brought on it earlier last year. Earlier in the 00:43:13.139 --> 00:43:14.920 year, we brought on the executive director who's 00:43:14.920 --> 00:43:17.030 not DEA, but she's phenomenal as well. well, 00:43:17.030 --> 00:43:19.710 and she really helps expand our message and lead 00:43:19.710 --> 00:43:22.130 us into a good strategic direction. But yeah, 00:43:22.130 --> 00:43:24.550 that's only to M .G. Our initial goal was to 00:43:24.550 --> 00:43:26.849 raise awareness of illicit fentanyl, but we've 00:43:26.849 --> 00:43:29.190 evolved to other public safety threats as well. 00:43:29.289 --> 00:43:31.090 Fentanyl is not the only thing in our drug supply. 00:43:31.190 --> 00:43:33.349 We're seeing more and more drugs, the nidazine, 00:43:33.389 --> 00:43:36.070 silazine. Every day you listen to the news or 00:43:36.070 --> 00:43:37.769 pick up a, I would say pick up a paper, but I 00:43:37.769 --> 00:43:40.730 don't think people do that anymore. There's something 00:43:40.730 --> 00:43:42.710 latest and greatest, and you have to stay ahead 00:43:42.710 --> 00:43:44.769 of that. So from a drug standpoint, like what's 00:43:44.769 --> 00:43:46.690 the greatest danger to our country right now. 00:43:46.789 --> 00:43:48.489 We obviously hear a lot about fentanyl, but what's 00:43:48.489 --> 00:43:50.369 the other big players that we should be concerned 00:43:50.369 --> 00:43:52.150 about? I was just reading about trang the other 00:43:52.150 --> 00:43:54.269 day and how that's pretty dangerous in of itself. 00:43:54.469 --> 00:43:56.210 I think they call it the zombie drug, but what 00:43:56.210 --> 00:43:58.150 are the greatest dangers that we are facing as 00:43:58.150 --> 00:44:00.889 a country today? Fentanyl by far, a hundred percent. 00:44:01.130 --> 00:44:02.409 I've 30 years in law enforcement, never seen 00:44:02.409 --> 00:44:04.730 a drug more impactful than fentanyl. It has changed 00:44:04.730 --> 00:44:07.190 drug experimentation, casual drug use, recreational 00:44:07.190 --> 00:44:11.050 drug use. which is xylazine. Now we're seeing 00:44:11.050 --> 00:44:13.369 more of the nidazines, like the isodote. We're 00:44:13.369 --> 00:44:15.449 seeing a lot more synthetics, a lot more man 00:44:15.449 --> 00:44:17.530 -made dope. And I always joke, but sometimes 00:44:17.530 --> 00:44:19.289 I don't think I'm joking when I say this, is 00:44:19.289 --> 00:44:20.769 that I think there's a bunch of idiots out there 00:44:20.769 --> 00:44:23.489 who have a contest on who can make the next deadliest 00:44:23.489 --> 00:44:25.489 drug. Because fentanyl, quite frankly, it's not 00:44:25.489 --> 00:44:27.610 the most dangerous drug out there. The iso, the 00:44:27.610 --> 00:44:29.610 nidazines, I just got quoted in Rolling Stone 00:44:29.610 --> 00:44:31.329 magazine on this, which was pretty cool. Awesome. 00:44:31.550 --> 00:44:33.210 Nice. Yeah, I was pretty excited about that. 00:44:33.269 --> 00:44:36.050 But this is a drug that's stronger than fentanyl. 00:44:36.150 --> 00:44:38.630 Thankfully, it hasn't flooded the hazard. seen 00:44:38.630 --> 00:44:40.630 it quite a bit in our illicit drug market, but 00:44:40.630 --> 00:44:43.050 fentanyl is by all accounts, the game changer. 00:44:43.170 --> 00:44:45.429 The drug supply is much different than it was 00:44:45.429 --> 00:44:47.869 10, 15 years ago, and it's forever changed. One 00:44:47.869 --> 00:44:49.710 of the things I look at in the United States, 00:44:49.710 --> 00:44:52.150 we have a program that DEA runs called the National 00:44:52.150 --> 00:44:54.630 Forensic Laboratory Information System. And we 00:44:54.630 --> 00:44:57.449 need an acronym, so it's NFLIS. And what it is, 00:44:57.550 --> 00:45:01.269 the DEA works with about 98, 99 % of all the 00:45:01.269 --> 00:45:03.630 drug labs in the U .S. So whether you're a city 00:45:03.630 --> 00:45:05.829 officer, state officer, or federal officer, most 00:45:05.829 --> 00:45:08.179 of the drug labs, when you submit dope, they 00:45:08.179 --> 00:45:10.219 all participate in this program. So I like to 00:45:10.219 --> 00:45:11.840 look at a couple of things. I like to look at 00:45:11.840 --> 00:45:13.559 what's being submitted by law enforcement at 00:45:13.559 --> 00:45:16.199 all levels. I like to look at how much is being 00:45:16.199 --> 00:45:18.659 submitted. And I like to look at what's in the 00:45:18.659 --> 00:45:20.440 drugs being submitted. And a couple of things 00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:23.739 that really blew me away is 75 to 80 % of the 00:45:23.739 --> 00:45:26.000 heroin out there, if you can find heroin, has 00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:28.280 fentanyl in it. The last statistics we have about 00:45:28.280 --> 00:45:33.199 41 % of all the cocaine out there now has fentanyl 00:45:33.199 --> 00:45:35.760 in it. 17 % of all the methamphetamine out there 00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:37.920 now has fentanyl in it. So when I say fentanyl 00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:40.079 is the most impactful drug, that's why. It came 00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:42.239 in through heroin, but then it got into the meth, 00:45:42.320 --> 00:45:44.280 it got into the coke, it got into the counterfeit 00:45:44.280 --> 00:45:47.059 pills. It has transformed our drug supply. And 00:45:47.059 --> 00:45:48.739 yeah, there's a lot of other drugs out there, 00:45:48.840 --> 00:45:50.260 like I said, like Trank and things like that. 00:45:50.260 --> 00:45:52.079 And I'm certainly aware of them and certainly 00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:54.139 concerned about them, but it's the fentanyl that's 00:45:54.139 --> 00:45:56.320 the game changer. Is it because fentanyl is cheap? 00:45:56.460 --> 00:45:57.980 Like back in the day, it used to be actually 00:45:57.980 --> 00:46:00.239 expensive. Like why is it being cut with everything, 00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:01.860 like with cocaine and these other drugs that 00:46:01.860 --> 00:46:04.000 you mentioned? Yeah. And along with that question 00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:06.019 is why would traffickers cut it in the first 00:46:06.019 --> 00:46:07.550 place? If it's going to kill so many people, 00:46:07.590 --> 00:46:09.789 I get that a lot. Really, there's three reasons. 00:46:09.849 --> 00:46:11.769 One is it's cheap now. You can go on the dark 00:46:11.769 --> 00:46:13.449 web and you get a kilo of this stuff. If you 00:46:13.449 --> 00:46:15.630 find the right buyer or seller for $4 ,000 or 00:46:15.630 --> 00:46:18.730 $5 ,000, it's nuts how cheap this is. You're 00:46:18.730 --> 00:46:20.849 talking a couple pounds for just a couple thousand 00:46:20.849 --> 00:46:23.110 dollars. And when you talk about only two milligrams, 00:46:23.389 --> 00:46:25.110 a couple pounds will go a long way if you're 00:46:25.110 --> 00:46:27.550 a drug trafficker. So it's very powerful. So 00:46:27.550 --> 00:46:30.510 I have folks who I know, who I've spoken to, 00:46:30.550 --> 00:46:32.730 who struggle from fentanyl, and they'll tell 00:46:32.730 --> 00:46:35.769 you that it's a more intense experience. know 00:46:35.769 --> 00:46:37.429 when they've gotten fentanyl. Sometimes when 00:46:37.429 --> 00:46:39.030 they don't even ask, they just know because it 00:46:39.030 --> 00:46:41.610 has a different high to it. And finally, that'll 00:46:41.610 --> 00:46:43.670 bring them back. So that makes it more addictive. 00:46:43.809 --> 00:46:45.730 And if you're a drug trafficker, you have one 00:46:45.730 --> 00:46:48.449 thing in mind, period, to bring back repeat customers, 00:46:48.570 --> 00:46:50.530 make money, and cheap, powerful, and addictive. 00:46:50.750 --> 00:46:52.730 Those are the three big ones. And I know it doesn't 00:46:52.730 --> 00:46:54.630 make sense to sell product that kills so many 00:46:54.630 --> 00:46:57.269 people, but they're actually getting more customers 00:46:57.269 --> 00:46:59.289 right now than they're killing people. So what 00:46:59.289 --> 00:47:01.409 we all see in the public is we see these record 00:47:01.409 --> 00:47:03.869 high numbers, people dying every day. It's unfortunate. 00:47:03.949 --> 00:47:05.599 That's the reality. of what this drug has done, 00:47:05.679 --> 00:47:07.880 but they're seeing record profit margins. And 00:47:07.880 --> 00:47:10.659 this stuff costs them. The cartels pennies, literally 00:47:10.659 --> 00:47:13.099 pennies for them to make this stuff. And their 00:47:13.099 --> 00:47:14.940 people are coming back and coming back. And it 00:47:14.940 --> 00:47:16.300 all comes back to what we talked about earlier, 00:47:16.420 --> 00:47:18.340 the demand. Yeah, the demand. This is a simple 00:47:18.340 --> 00:47:20.539 economics problem. There's this greater demand. 00:47:20.639 --> 00:47:22.360 And even though people are dying, there's always 00:47:22.360 --> 00:47:24.199 going to be traffickers out there. Yeah. In my 00:47:24.199 --> 00:47:26.559 experience, it seemed like it was a floodgate. 00:47:26.559 --> 00:47:28.420 Because for a long time in law enforcement, you 00:47:28.420 --> 00:47:30.300 really never saw fentanyl on the street. But 00:47:30.300 --> 00:47:31.780 it's just something that can flip the switch. 00:47:31.880 --> 00:47:34.159 And it started showing up in everything. It was 00:47:34.159 --> 00:47:36.539 a pretty intense experience to witness that as 00:47:36.539 --> 00:47:38.900 it came on. As you said, people started ODing 00:47:38.900 --> 00:47:41.219 on this stuff. It was really weird. It just seemed 00:47:41.219 --> 00:47:42.820 like it was a floodgate. It wasn't a trickle. 00:47:42.920 --> 00:47:45.420 It was definitely a storm in my career. Yeah, 00:47:45.420 --> 00:47:47.300 that's how we all feel. And it was really about, 00:47:47.539 --> 00:47:50.519 what, 2015, 2016, that we just, boom, it just 00:47:50.519 --> 00:47:52.679 hit us. And it just was everywhere. And then 00:47:52.679 --> 00:47:55.280 all the information went out. The officer exposure, 00:47:55.420 --> 00:47:57.699 which we know now is a myth. So just all kinds 00:47:57.699 --> 00:48:00.019 of stuff happening at the same time. Very overwhelming 00:48:00.019 --> 00:48:02.039 for law enforcement and for society in general. 00:48:02.139 --> 00:48:04.699 No, in your opinion. This gets a little bit conspiratorial. 00:48:04.860 --> 00:48:07.739 I know the drug, the cartels have invested financial 00:48:07.739 --> 00:48:09.739 interest in keeping repeat customers. But do 00:48:09.739 --> 00:48:12.480 you see it as like nonlinear warfare from China 00:48:12.480 --> 00:48:14.599 to supply the cartels and then bring it up to 00:48:14.599 --> 00:48:16.780 the United States? I do. And you think about 00:48:16.780 --> 00:48:18.559 it. Look at, if you look at the demographics 00:48:18.559 --> 00:48:21.739 of who's dying at the record numbers, war aged 00:48:21.739 --> 00:48:25.519 men. I mean, that 18 to 30 years old, these are 00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:27.420 our soldiers. These are our frontline folks that 00:48:27.420 --> 00:48:29.719 we send into battle and they are wrecking so 00:48:29.719 --> 00:48:32.159 much havoc on this country without a troop on 00:48:32.159 --> 00:48:33.960 the ground. And I know, like you're saying, it 00:48:33.960 --> 00:48:36.340 does sometimes sound like conspiracy, but that's 00:48:36.340 --> 00:48:38.119 the reality. And I think about it quite a bit. 00:48:38.179 --> 00:48:40.980 What better way to destroy our country than with 00:48:40.980 --> 00:48:43.920 this poison that kills a hundred thousand people 00:48:43.920 --> 00:48:46.420 a year. It's especially at that young age. It's 00:48:46.420 --> 00:48:48.440 horrible. It really is. Now in your experience, 00:48:48.480 --> 00:48:51.800 like these next generation drugs that are falling. 00:48:51.820 --> 00:48:53.840 fentanyl. Are they coming from China as well 00:48:53.840 --> 00:48:55.679 or are they being manufactured somewhere else? 00:48:55.860 --> 00:48:57.760 Primarily China. You look at the nidazines. That's 00:48:57.760 --> 00:48:59.139 been on the news, like I said, on the Rolling 00:48:59.139 --> 00:49:01.719 Stone thing I did. China. India certainly is 00:49:01.719 --> 00:49:03.539 trying to increase their position. And there 00:49:03.539 --> 00:49:05.820 are some other bad actors as well, but China 00:49:05.820 --> 00:49:08.840 by far is the... And that's why every time Xi 00:49:08.840 --> 00:49:11.960 talks to Trump or Biden or whoever the US president 00:49:11.960 --> 00:49:14.199 is, I'm just so skeptical of it. They come back 00:49:14.199 --> 00:49:15.719 and they're like, oh, they're going to sign this 00:49:15.719 --> 00:49:18.119 and sign this. Come on. Whatever he signs is 00:49:18.119 --> 00:49:20.280 garbage. Let's just face it. You can trust it 00:49:20.280 --> 00:49:21.920 as far as you can throw. Now, do you in the next 00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:24.699 five, 10, 15 years, do you see these next gen 00:49:24.699 --> 00:49:26.599 drugs replacing fentanyl? Or do you think fentanyl 00:49:26.599 --> 00:49:28.519 is the worst of it? I don't know that it'll replace 00:49:28.519 --> 00:49:30.260 it, but I think we're going to continue to see 00:49:30.260 --> 00:49:32.420 it. Some people feel like fentanyl is crack in 00:49:32.420 --> 00:49:34.699 the eighties and the different escalation of 00:49:34.699 --> 00:49:36.900 drugs historically, where you see more of it 00:49:36.900 --> 00:49:38.679 in the news and things like that. I don't know 00:49:38.679 --> 00:49:40.219 that fentanyl is going to go anywhere because 00:49:40.219 --> 00:49:43.039 it is so cheap for them to manufacture and it 00:49:43.039 --> 00:49:45.980 is so powerful and addictive. I think we'll continue 00:49:45.980 --> 00:49:48.420 to see other drugs. As crazy as this sounds, 00:49:48.500 --> 00:49:51.250 I think the drug traffickers re - that they do 00:49:51.250 --> 00:49:53.349 look at car fentanyl for instance car fentanyl 00:49:53.349 --> 00:49:55.889 is way more powerful than fentanyl and every 00:49:55.889 --> 00:49:57.789 so often you'll hear about car fentanyl out there 00:49:57.789 --> 00:49:59.590 and I used to follow this all the time I still 00:49:59.590 --> 00:50:01.889 have access to a lot of sensitive bulletins from 00:50:01.889 --> 00:50:04.090 different law enforcement agencies and HIDAs 00:50:04.090 --> 00:50:06.409 and things like that and every time I would see 00:50:06.409 --> 00:50:08.989 a hey whoop whoop car fentanyl has made it in 00:50:08.989 --> 00:50:10.869 this geographical area of the United States I 00:50:10.869 --> 00:50:13.110 used to make phone calls to folks I knew whether 00:50:13.110 --> 00:50:16.110 it was DEA or local narcs I'm telling you every 00:50:16.110 --> 00:50:18.670 single time within a few days it would take care 00:50:18.670 --> 00:50:20.409 of itself nothing that law enforcement did and 00:50:20.409 --> 00:50:22.170 I'm not making fun of law enforcement all really 00:50:22.170 --> 00:50:24.269 good people but the traffickers I always say 00:50:24.269 --> 00:50:26.269 that there's this crazy algorithm yes a lot of 00:50:26.269 --> 00:50:28.170 people die from fentanyl but they're making a 00:50:28.170 --> 00:50:29.989 lot more money fentanyl is like when a hundred 00:50:29.989 --> 00:50:32.610 and 18 people die on a Tuesday night. That's 00:50:32.610 --> 00:50:35.469 not good for business. So they police it themselves. 00:50:35.530 --> 00:50:37.969 So I do think there'll be more and more of these 00:50:37.969 --> 00:50:40.250 synthetics and drugs coming on the market, but 00:50:40.250 --> 00:50:42.309 I think they have to be careful that they don't 00:50:42.309 --> 00:50:44.869 overdo it. From our perspective, people are like, 00:50:44.909 --> 00:50:46.510 how do they overdo it with fentanyl? They're 00:50:46.510 --> 00:50:48.329 really not. From our perspective, they are because 00:50:48.329 --> 00:50:49.769 a lot of people are dying, but they're making 00:50:49.769 --> 00:50:51.949 more money. And as long as that money outpaces 00:50:51.949 --> 00:50:53.929 the death, then they don't care. And they have 00:50:53.929 --> 00:50:55.909 to balance that. I know that sounds weird, but 00:50:55.909 --> 00:50:58.409 that's the reality of what they do. And they 00:50:58.409 --> 00:51:00.670 adapt really well. They don't have laws. They 00:51:00.670 --> 00:51:02.809 don't have morals. They don't have values. They're 00:51:02.809 --> 00:51:04.210 good at what they do and they've been doing it 00:51:04.210 --> 00:51:05.909 for decades. Yeah. They don't want to kill off 00:51:05.909 --> 00:51:10.170 their customer base too fast. Not too fast. Not 00:51:10.170 --> 00:51:16.469 too fast. Just a little bit. Are there like today, 00:51:16.670 --> 00:51:18.530 are there big players in the market? Obviously 00:51:18.530 --> 00:51:20.909 somebody's feet in the machine, somebody's sitting 00:51:20.909 --> 00:51:23.989 at the top of the totem pole. Who are those people 00:51:23.989 --> 00:51:26.889 today or do you know? CJ and G Cartel Jalisco, 00:51:27.010 --> 00:51:29.429 El Mencho is the, he's the top of the food chain. 00:51:29.630 --> 00:51:31.909 You find, we find him, we're $15 million richer. 00:51:32.110 --> 00:51:34.730 He is at one time it would have been El Chapo 00:51:34.730 --> 00:51:36.829 in the Sinaloa Cartel. Of course, El Chapo is 00:51:36.829 --> 00:51:39.050 in federal prison now and two of his kids, in 00:51:39.050 --> 00:51:40.929 fact, one of them, I think just pled guilty yesterday 00:51:40.929 --> 00:51:43.289 or day before. But there's a lot of infighting 00:51:43.289 --> 00:51:46.530 going on now between El. Mayo, which was El Chapo's 00:51:46.530 --> 00:51:48.829 right -hand man within the Sinaloa Cartel. And 00:51:48.829 --> 00:51:51.329 his people, who were loyal to him, believe that 00:51:51.329 --> 00:51:53.829 El Chapo's kids cooperated with the U .S. government. 00:51:53.989 --> 00:51:56.429 And there's all types of things going on behind 00:51:56.429 --> 00:51:58.409 the scenes with these organizations. But because 00:51:58.409 --> 00:52:01.550 of that, they're in -fighting. And the CJ &G, 00:52:01.730 --> 00:52:04.329 the Cartel Jalisco, has really exploited that, 00:52:04.329 --> 00:52:06.369 as they should if they're a rival organization. 00:52:06.449 --> 00:52:08.050 Because we're talking, these two organizations, 00:52:08.329 --> 00:52:10.489 just for people who wouldn't know, or who don't 00:52:10.489 --> 00:52:12.070 know who they are, we're talking like Bloods 00:52:12.070 --> 00:52:14.639 and Crips. We're talking Coke and Pepsi. We're 00:52:14.639 --> 00:52:16.159 talking the Cowboys and the Redskins, and we're 00:52:16.159 --> 00:52:18.800 talking arch rivals within the cartel world. 00:52:19.000 --> 00:52:21.760 And now because of everything going on with the 00:52:21.760 --> 00:52:24.320 Sinaloa cartel, I think you easily make an argument 00:52:24.320 --> 00:52:26.900 that CJ &G has really taken the number one spot. 00:52:26.960 --> 00:52:29.000 But both of them are still dangerous organizations. 00:52:29.119 --> 00:52:31.239 They both operate in, I don't know, last Intel 00:52:31.239 --> 00:52:34.639 report I looked at, probably 40, 42, 43 countries. 00:52:34.760 --> 00:52:37.340 They just have a huge footprint. They're very 00:52:37.340 --> 00:52:39.380 good at what they do. And when it comes to fentanyl, 00:52:39.380 --> 00:52:41.360 those are the two major players. Are there other 00:52:41.360 --> 00:52:43.480 players? Are there other cartels? Absolutely. 00:52:43.559 --> 00:52:46.039 All the cartels are poly drugged and poly criminal 00:52:46.039 --> 00:52:47.960 activity for that matter. Any way to make money, 00:52:47.960 --> 00:52:50.039 they will. But when it comes to the major players 00:52:50.039 --> 00:52:52.300 in the fentanyl trade, it's those two organizations. 00:52:52.460 --> 00:52:54.800 And like I said, CJ &G, they're taking over. 00:52:54.880 --> 00:52:56.880 What does their basic supply chain look like? 00:52:56.940 --> 00:52:59.039 Are they going to China, buying the precursors, 00:52:59.119 --> 00:53:00.880 or they're manufacturing over there, shipping 00:53:00.880 --> 00:53:02.940 it to Mexico, and then somehow smuggling it into 00:53:02.940 --> 00:53:04.500 the country? What does that supply chain look 00:53:04.500 --> 00:53:06.360 like for these big guys? Yeah, China, number 00:53:06.360 --> 00:53:08.440 one. And again, India and some other countries 00:53:08.440 --> 00:53:11.039 as well. But China, by far, number one. The chemicals 00:53:11.039 --> 00:53:14.079 literally on cargo. ships any way they can right 00:53:14.079 --> 00:53:16.920 into Mexico. The ports of Mexico are controlled 00:53:16.920 --> 00:53:19.179 by so much corruption. They're controlled by 00:53:19.179 --> 00:53:21.280 the cartels. They're transported into various 00:53:21.280 --> 00:53:23.960 areas around Mexico, especially the Western portion 00:53:23.960 --> 00:53:26.679 of the country and mass produced. And I think 00:53:26.679 --> 00:53:28.420 I said this earlier, they're very good at smuggling 00:53:28.420 --> 00:53:30.099 drugs into the U .S. They've been doing it for 00:53:30.099 --> 00:53:33.280 decades. And now as opposed to just heroin and 00:53:33.280 --> 00:53:35.480 coke and weed and everything else, now you have 00:53:35.480 --> 00:53:37.960 another drug. It's fentanyl. And so, yeah, they 00:53:37.960 --> 00:53:40.579 really control that process. That's part of what 00:53:40.579 --> 00:53:42.489 we have to do in law enforcement. is to try to 00:53:42.489 --> 00:53:44.789 plug holes along that process. Now you mentioned 00:53:44.789 --> 00:53:47.170 methamphetamine. I always thought meth was cooked 00:53:47.170 --> 00:53:49.610 up by some hillbilly in the trailer in the middle 00:53:49.610 --> 00:53:52.489 of the woods. Like how long has the cartel been 00:53:52.489 --> 00:53:54.489 supplying meth? It's an interesting story with 00:53:54.489 --> 00:53:58.050 meth and that really plays into how successful, 00:53:58.190 --> 00:54:00.050 it was the playbook and let me back up a little 00:54:00.050 --> 00:54:03.090 bit. So it was the hillbillies back in the 90s, 00:54:03.250 --> 00:54:05.650 early 2000s. It was the, we called them one pot 00:54:05.650 --> 00:54:08.909 labs, mom and pop labs, and they just plagued, 00:54:08.949 --> 00:54:10.670 they took over the United States with these little 00:54:10.670 --> 00:54:14.030 labs. So we responded by outlawing certain, or 00:54:14.030 --> 00:54:16.090 making it harder to get certain chemicals like 00:54:16.090 --> 00:54:18.730 aphedrine. So to this day, if you go to, if you 00:54:18.730 --> 00:54:20.530 want the good Sudafed, not the crappy stuff, 00:54:20.550 --> 00:54:22.570 but the really good stuff, you got to go to the 00:54:22.570 --> 00:54:23.750 pharmacist. You don't have to have a script, 00:54:23.769 --> 00:54:25.070 but you have to give them the driver's license. 00:54:25.090 --> 00:54:26.789 You have to sign the little thing and you get 00:54:26.789 --> 00:54:29.650 the good Sudafed. When we did that meth lab production 00:54:29.650 --> 00:54:32.510 in the United States dropped significantly. We're 00:54:32.510 --> 00:54:34.730 talking, I was a police officer in Missouri and 00:54:34.730 --> 00:54:36.989 Southwest Missouri. And we probably did, I don't 00:54:36.989 --> 00:54:39.909 know, 10 a week. And we went down to 10 a year. 00:54:40.039 --> 00:54:42.880 instantly. And now you talk to local law enforcement, 00:54:43.000 --> 00:54:45.139 state law enforcement, or even DEA, you do two 00:54:45.139 --> 00:54:47.699 or three meth labs a year, if that. So that happens 00:54:47.699 --> 00:54:50.480 in the U .S. The cartels love that because these 00:54:50.480 --> 00:54:52.260 hillbillies were taking over the meth trade. 00:54:52.320 --> 00:54:54.380 So they're like, okay, this is perfect. So they 00:54:54.380 --> 00:54:56.920 pick up the telephone, they call China, India, 00:54:57.000 --> 00:54:59.039 other places, but primarily China, and say, hey, 00:54:59.059 --> 00:55:00.900 this is aphedrine and all these other chemicals 00:55:00.900 --> 00:55:03.300 to make methamphetamine. Can we buy these? And 00:55:03.300 --> 00:55:04.900 they're like, yeah, absolutely. And that's where 00:55:04.900 --> 00:55:07.139 it all started. So they started to get all these 00:55:07.139 --> 00:55:10.820 chemicals bulk exported into meth. And again, 00:55:11.019 --> 00:55:12.960 right into the port, they transport them out. 00:55:13.159 --> 00:55:14.320 And then they, that's when we started hearing 00:55:14.320 --> 00:55:17.260 the superlabs and the really strong methamphetamine. 00:55:17.440 --> 00:55:19.920 The cartels absolutely took it over, took it 00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:21.539 over to give you a perspective. I was down in 00:55:21.539 --> 00:55:26.650 the border from 2000. nine to 2016, so not terribly 00:55:26.650 --> 00:55:28.949 long ago. And we were paying in our undercover 00:55:28.949 --> 00:55:30.829 operations or even our informant operations, 00:55:30.989 --> 00:55:33.710 we were paying about $22 ,000, $23 ,000 a pound 00:55:33.710 --> 00:55:36.110 for meth. Right now on the border, you can get 00:55:36.110 --> 00:55:41.349 meth for about $700 a pound. A scringo. So in 00:55:41.349 --> 00:55:43.969 the US, maybe you're in St. Louis or Detroit 00:55:43.969 --> 00:55:45.829 or New York or something like that, and you're 00:55:45.829 --> 00:55:47.210 going to pay a little bit more, maybe not New 00:55:47.210 --> 00:55:48.510 York, but you're going to pay a little bit more 00:55:48.510 --> 00:55:50.329 because you had to go further north with it. 00:55:50.349 --> 00:55:52.369 But that's what they did. They saturated the 00:55:52.369 --> 00:55:54.110 country with methamphetamine. They literally 00:55:54.110 --> 00:55:55.909 took over the production. They took over the 00:55:55.909 --> 00:55:58.469 entire supply chain of it. When fentanyl became 00:55:58.469 --> 00:56:00.349 a necessity because they need something to cut 00:56:00.349 --> 00:56:02.130 heroin with, they did, they literally, when they 00:56:02.130 --> 00:56:03.849 picked up the phone and says, hey, those chemicals 00:56:03.849 --> 00:56:05.469 I was getting for methamphetamine, I'm also going 00:56:05.469 --> 00:56:07.670 to need the chemicals to make this fentanyl stuff. 00:56:07.710 --> 00:56:10.369 And then absolutely. So the same... transportation 00:56:10.369 --> 00:56:13.150 methods, the same cargo ships. Literally it was 00:56:13.150 --> 00:56:15.409 the playbook was written and they just, it was 00:56:15.409 --> 00:56:18.090 natural for them to control and take over the 00:56:18.090 --> 00:56:19.750 production of fentanyl. And that's exactly what 00:56:19.750 --> 00:56:22.409 they've done. I always wonder why the drug problem 00:56:22.409 --> 00:56:24.809 is so bad in the United States. I lived internationally. 00:56:24.909 --> 00:56:27.130 I lived in China for a few years and you don't 00:56:27.130 --> 00:56:29.130 see a lot of it. Like most people are blind by 00:56:29.130 --> 00:56:31.050 the roles. You don't see a lot of drug addicts 00:56:31.050 --> 00:56:33.230 or homeless people on the streets. Like you just, 00:56:33.510 --> 00:56:36.070 if it's there, it's very hidden. I wonder like 00:56:36.070 --> 00:56:38.130 where we've gone wrong as a country and why is 00:56:38.130 --> 00:56:40.099 there so much demand? in the United States. I 00:56:40.099 --> 00:56:42.619 think there's a lot of untreated mental illness, 00:56:42.780 --> 00:56:45.579 trauma, and a lot of issues that we just put 00:56:45.579 --> 00:56:48.320 band -aids on or we stigmatize and we don't allow 00:56:48.320 --> 00:56:50.579 people to get help. And we know that a lot, not 00:56:50.579 --> 00:56:52.800 all, but a lot of people who, especially at young 00:56:52.800 --> 00:56:55.179 age, will turn to drugs and alcohol because they're 00:56:55.179 --> 00:56:58.019 coping with some real stuff in their life. And 00:56:58.019 --> 00:57:00.500 again, not everyone who uses drugs has been molested 00:57:00.500 --> 00:57:02.800 or seen some trauma, but it happens quite a bit. 00:57:02.860 --> 00:57:05.000 They're dealing with something real and the way 00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:08.239 to deal with it is to numb the pain, if you will. 00:57:08.429 --> 00:57:11.650 through drugs or alcohol. And I think historically, 00:57:11.809 --> 00:57:13.849 we just haven't really, haven't had an honest 00:57:13.849 --> 00:57:16.250 national conversation about this and really treated 00:57:16.250 --> 00:57:18.989 mental illness and all these issues and gave 00:57:18.989 --> 00:57:21.369 it the attention and the resources that they 00:57:21.369 --> 00:57:23.070 deserve. And then I also think when you look 00:57:23.070 --> 00:57:25.170 at, look at my own life and I look at the projection 00:57:25.170 --> 00:57:27.550 of drugs, I remember when I was a kid, Nancy 00:57:27.550 --> 00:57:30.090 Reagan, just say no. And the commercials out 00:57:30.090 --> 00:57:32.309 there, this is your brain on drugs. You see some 00:57:32.309 --> 00:57:34.630 eggs spying on a, like we were scared into this. 00:57:34.650 --> 00:57:37.349 And then you saw this slow evolution of people 00:57:37.349 --> 00:57:40.869 saying, maybe drugs aren't so bad. Maybe if we 00:57:40.869 --> 00:57:43.630 provide needles and provide safe spaces. So we 00:57:43.630 --> 00:57:46.369 had this turn of how we dealt with this from 00:57:46.369 --> 00:57:48.469 a national perspective. And at the same time, 00:57:48.570 --> 00:57:50.269 we weren't talking about mental illness. We weren't 00:57:50.269 --> 00:57:51.849 talking about trauma. We weren't talking about 00:57:51.849 --> 00:57:53.769 these other things. We just turned the corner 00:57:53.769 --> 00:57:55.849 on how we were going to deal with the drug problem 00:57:55.849 --> 00:57:58.170 itself. And to the point where there's a lot 00:57:58.170 --> 00:58:00.230 of people now who think it needs to be legalized, 00:58:00.309 --> 00:58:02.980 not because they're, you know... libertarian 00:58:02.980 --> 00:58:05.599 and believe in self, just, but because they just 00:58:05.599 --> 00:58:07.980 think that this is a problem that we shouldn't 00:58:07.980 --> 00:58:10.000 even be addressing. I'm probably rambling, I 00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:12.219 could go on forever on this. It's frustrating. 00:58:12.940 --> 00:58:15.980 It also seems normalized too, especially with 00:58:15.980 --> 00:58:19.340 marijuana. how the stream is pushing psychedelics. 00:58:19.440 --> 00:58:21.599 They make it seem cool and trendy and why don't 00:58:21.599 --> 00:58:23.019 you hop on this, it'll make you feel better. 00:58:23.159 --> 00:58:26.920 So I even argue that our culture today has mainlined 00:58:26.920 --> 00:58:29.059 it into, especially with the youth, which is 00:58:29.059 --> 00:58:31.360 unfortunate. And those marijuana, especially 00:58:31.360 --> 00:58:33.559 gateway drug to some of this other stuff. Yeah, 00:58:33.559 --> 00:58:35.739 you're right. I mean, they have, our culture 00:58:35.739 --> 00:58:37.179 has extended. That's kind of that progression 00:58:37.179 --> 00:58:40.519 I saw from the just say no to, okay, if you're 00:58:40.519 --> 00:58:42.519 going to use it, here's a clean needle. Mentioned 00:58:42.519 --> 00:58:44.260 marijuana, that's another drug that's changed 00:58:44.260 --> 00:58:46.760 so much over the marijuana that when we were 00:58:46.760 --> 00:58:49.139 teenagers is much different than the marijuana 00:58:49.139 --> 00:58:51.420 of the day. And people don't realize, especially 00:58:51.420 --> 00:58:53.039 a lot of parents, I can't tell you how many, 00:58:53.280 --> 00:58:55.059 just tons of parents are like, I smoked marijuana 00:58:55.059 --> 00:58:56.840 when I was a kid, what's the harm? I can't be 00:58:56.840 --> 00:58:58.519 a hypocrite and tell my kids they can't smoke 00:58:58.519 --> 00:59:00.820 weed. Let me tell you that the weed you smoked 00:59:00.820 --> 00:59:03.159 when you were a kid, not even in the same ballpark, 00:59:03.260 --> 00:59:05.340 you're talking, if you were a parent in the 1990s, 00:59:05.440 --> 00:59:07.980 you're talking, I don't know, three to 5 % THC 00:59:07.980 --> 00:59:10.019 levels. Weed that our kids are smoking nowadays 00:59:10.019 --> 00:59:13.500 is 30 % or higher. And if they're using vapes, 00:59:13.599 --> 00:59:17.500 the concentrates are 95 plus percent. It's in... 00:59:18.199 --> 00:59:19.719 Incredible. So we're seeing what we're seeing 00:59:19.719 --> 00:59:22.500 an increase in depression, psychosis, anxiety, 00:59:22.719 --> 00:59:24.300 all the things that we were told that this was 00:59:24.300 --> 00:59:26.739 going to solve. We're seeing an increase in and 00:59:26.739 --> 00:59:28.679 it's just, it's a hot topic. I'm sure I'm going 00:59:28.679 --> 00:59:31.219 to get an email. My son's got glaucoma and this 00:59:31.219 --> 00:59:33.039 is the only thing that can make me feel. Right. 00:59:33.179 --> 00:59:35.079 It's ridiculous. It's absolutely ridiculous. 00:59:35.139 --> 00:59:37.739 This is a change drug. It really is. It's not 00:59:37.739 --> 00:59:39.840 the same every, when I was in high school, you'd 00:59:39.840 --> 00:59:42.719 have to smoke 15, 20 joints to what the equivalent 00:59:42.719 --> 00:59:44.880 of marijuana dates. I would welcome anyone to 00:59:44.880 --> 00:59:47.320 just look at the THC levels. Isn't there a brand 00:59:47.320 --> 00:59:50.940 now called Not Your Dad's Weed? It's in drinks. 00:59:51.300 --> 00:59:54.239 It's in faves. It's everywhere. It's everywhere. 00:59:54.460 --> 00:59:57.820 You can't find the Mids, the Reggie's. Good luck. 00:59:58.159 --> 01:00:00.340 Yeah. Really hard. And that's why some people 01:00:00.340 --> 01:00:02.219 will tell you, especially older folks who, let's 01:00:02.219 --> 01:00:03.739 say you smoked weed when you were in high school 01:00:03.739 --> 01:00:05.460 and now you're older, they'll just take one puff 01:00:05.460 --> 01:00:06.800 or even a half a puff. You know what I mean? 01:00:06.880 --> 01:00:08.519 They'll do the whole Bill Clinton thing though. 01:00:09.320 --> 01:00:12.760 Didn't inhale. They can't handle it because it's 01:00:12.760 --> 01:00:14.800 just too strong. It's much different. Yeah. I'm 01:00:14.800 --> 01:00:17.460 in a state that just recently legalized marijuana 01:00:17.460 --> 01:00:19.920 for recreational use. I'm in Maryland now and 01:00:19.920 --> 01:00:21.860 it seems like a lot of bad news. Do you have 01:00:21.860 --> 01:00:23.559 thoughts on that? You think it should be legal 01:00:23.559 --> 01:00:25.579 and controlled by the government and sold or 01:00:25.579 --> 01:00:27.320 how do you kind of see that path forward? No, 01:00:27.320 --> 01:00:29.500 I actually did a video on this. I think it's 01:00:29.500 --> 01:00:31.659 a bad, I live in Missouri and we legalized it 01:00:31.659 --> 01:00:33.840 my last year at DEA and I was opposed to it. 01:00:33.900 --> 01:00:35.559 Not from the law enforcement perspective, but 01:00:35.559 --> 01:00:36.920 because of what we were just talking about, the 01:00:36.920 --> 01:00:38.780 THC levels. We're seeing more and more problems. 01:00:38.940 --> 01:00:41.260 You look at, I mean, every time All the hideous 01:00:41.260 --> 01:00:43.119 around the United States, every time they release 01:00:43.119 --> 01:00:45.519 the reports on the marijuana impact, I like to 01:00:45.519 --> 01:00:47.139 read them and I'm blown away by them. I would 01:00:47.139 --> 01:00:48.719 just welcome, I mean, look at the early states 01:00:48.719 --> 01:00:51.300 like Colorado, poison control calls, traffic 01:00:51.300 --> 01:00:54.159 accidents involving marijuana up, our visits 01:00:54.159 --> 01:00:57.360 up. Number one treatment, patient, especially 01:00:57.360 --> 01:01:00.500 for young people, marijuana related use. It's 01:01:00.500 --> 01:01:02.619 not, not meth, not cocaine. Not that those things 01:01:02.619 --> 01:01:05.360 don't happen, but every single bad metric can 01:01:05.360 --> 01:01:08.480 be tied back to legalization when you compare 01:01:08.480 --> 01:01:10.760 those states to the state. that have not yet 01:01:10.760 --> 01:01:12.900 legalized it. That was my problem from a public 01:01:12.900 --> 01:01:15.059 safety perspective. But again, it got political 01:01:15.059 --> 01:01:17.340 and unfortunately people will pick a hill and 01:01:17.340 --> 01:01:19.599 die on it because of that. I'm not for it. I 01:01:19.599 --> 01:01:21.420 don't think regulate. Look at the states that 01:01:21.420 --> 01:01:24.099 have regulated it. Do you realize that the cartels 01:01:24.099 --> 01:01:26.280 operate in all those states? They love it. They 01:01:26.280 --> 01:01:28.360 absolutely love it. The Chinese nat criminal, 01:01:28.519 --> 01:01:31.300 transnational criminal organizations, they control, 01:01:31.820 --> 01:01:34.480 absolutely dominate the legal marijuana market, 01:01:34.559 --> 01:01:36.960 dominate it. They exploit the laws. They use 01:01:36.960 --> 01:01:39.909 strawman as they'll use us to be the owner on 01:01:39.909 --> 01:01:42.010 paper. They're destroying the environment on 01:01:42.010 --> 01:01:44.489 these illegal grows because they won't get permits 01:01:44.489 --> 01:01:46.590 for them, or if they do, they'll exploit it. 01:01:46.590 --> 01:01:48.130 They'll say, we're going to grow this, and then 01:01:48.130 --> 01:01:50.210 they'll end up growing eight times as big. Over, 01:01:50.389 --> 01:01:52.150 especially over the last four years, they brought 01:01:52.150 --> 01:01:54.789 a lot of illegal Chinese nationals into the United 01:01:54.789 --> 01:01:57.190 States to work these labs. They literally handcuff 01:01:57.190 --> 01:01:59.510 them to the walls and make them slaves. They 01:01:59.510 --> 01:02:01.590 turn them into indentured servants to work these 01:02:01.590 --> 01:02:03.610 labs. It's incredible what's happened behind 01:02:03.610 --> 01:02:06.250 the scenes. All we say is, let's save drugs, 01:02:06.349 --> 01:02:09.269 legalize it, tax it. We spend more money right 01:02:09.269 --> 01:02:11.610 now in all those states and Maryland, I don't 01:02:11.610 --> 01:02:12.949 know when you guys legalize it, but you're going 01:02:12.949 --> 01:02:14.849 to see the same thing. Mark my words. You're 01:02:14.849 --> 01:02:17.550 going to spend more money on the related social 01:02:17.550 --> 01:02:20.530 and healthcare costs than you do any tax revenue 01:02:20.530 --> 01:02:21.849 that it's generates. We're already seeing that 01:02:21.849 --> 01:02:23.809 in Missouri. It's only been legalized for two 01:02:23.809 --> 01:02:25.969 years now, three years now. It's Colorado's seen 01:02:25.969 --> 01:02:28.010 the same thing, but I'd love to see a reverse 01:02:28.010 --> 01:02:30.530 and states go back, but it's too late. The cat's 01:02:30.530 --> 01:02:33.070 out of the bag. Yeah. I'm not a big fan of it, 01:02:33.090 --> 01:02:35.289 but mainly because it's not just even stuff you 01:02:35.289 --> 01:02:37.250 smoke that you can stash away. Kids can't figure 01:02:37.250 --> 01:02:39.440 out. to really smoke it, but they're gummy bears 01:02:39.440 --> 01:02:41.500 and cookies and like anything you could think 01:02:41.500 --> 01:02:43.760 of that has the high levels of THC, which are 01:02:43.760 --> 01:02:46.139 very toxic with if little ones get into it and 01:02:46.139 --> 01:02:47.460 they just think it's a gummy bear and they want 01:02:47.460 --> 01:02:49.219 to eat candy. I'm going to real quick on that. 01:02:49.260 --> 01:02:50.699 You know what pisses me off about that too is 01:02:50.699 --> 01:02:52.340 look at the packaging. Next time you're at one 01:02:52.340 --> 01:02:54.320 of those near one of those stores, when I walk 01:02:54.320 --> 01:02:56.519 in and look at the packaging, like it infuriates 01:02:56.519 --> 01:02:59.139 me because they're mirroring Cheetos bags or 01:02:59.139 --> 01:03:02.000 Twizzler or Starp. They literally look like the 01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:04.079 real thing. If you're an adult and you want to 01:03:04.079 --> 01:03:05.440 use this stuff, I always tell people this and 01:03:05.440 --> 01:03:07.099 they always laugh when I say it. but use it, 01:03:07.099 --> 01:03:09.800 I don't care. If you're an adult, whatever, but 01:03:09.800 --> 01:03:12.059 put it in a brown paper bag or something like 01:03:12.059 --> 01:03:15.099 that. Don't put it in a bag that says Cheetos 01:03:15.099 --> 01:03:19.980 instead of Cheeto. Wow. Yeah, I know you're right. 01:03:19.980 --> 01:03:22.079 It's absurd. And that goes to the people that 01:03:22.079 --> 01:03:23.219 are marketing this stuff and they'll be like, 01:03:23.260 --> 01:03:25.199 it's legal. Yeah, it is legal to market like 01:03:25.199 --> 01:03:26.860 that, but I think it's unethical. And I don't 01:03:26.860 --> 01:03:28.420 know how you sleep at night when you do that 01:03:28.420 --> 01:03:30.780 percent. So one of my last questions right for 01:03:30.780 --> 01:03:32.719 you is what about the legal loophole? So you're 01:03:32.719 --> 01:03:34.159 seeing a lot of the, I think it's called Delta 01:03:34.159 --> 01:03:36.900 9 that they're able to sell legally, but you're 01:03:36.900 --> 01:03:38.460 seeing a lot of this. I just started seeing like 01:03:38.460 --> 01:03:40.039 mushrooms and stuff where they're like selling 01:03:40.039 --> 01:03:42.519 micro dose of the mushrooms when people can buy 01:03:42.519 --> 01:03:44.679 and they call it for therapeutic effects. Are 01:03:44.679 --> 01:03:47.119 you seeing the same kind of issues that you're 01:03:47.119 --> 01:03:49.210 seeing with the legal? legalization field, like 01:03:49.210 --> 01:03:51.230 you would see in Maryland or what have you. Yeah. 01:03:51.349 --> 01:03:52.869 The whole issue is, and I don't know where we 01:03:52.869 --> 01:03:54.289 stand on this right now, because let me back 01:03:54.289 --> 01:03:55.889 up a little bit, like Delta eight and stuff. 01:03:56.030 --> 01:03:59.030 The farm bill made it really difficult for legalization 01:03:59.030 --> 01:04:01.989 or for non legalization. And then fast forward 01:04:01.989 --> 01:04:04.469 to this last, the government shut down the temporary 01:04:04.469 --> 01:04:06.849 stimulus bill or whatever they passed. They slipped 01:04:06.849 --> 01:04:09.110 it in a measure to close that little loophole 01:04:09.110 --> 01:04:11.110 on the Delta eight. So I don't know where we 01:04:11.110 --> 01:04:13.769 stand on that. I have no idea. It's so confusing 01:04:13.769 --> 01:04:16.309 right now. So I guess the real answer is to be 01:04:16.309 --> 01:04:18.110 continued on. at it, we're seeing more people 01:04:18.110 --> 01:04:20.530 that are trying to exploit these laws and they're 01:04:20.530 --> 01:04:22.570 playing whack -a -mole or they're changing the 01:04:22.570 --> 01:04:24.449 chemical structure a little bit of the drugs. 01:04:24.590 --> 01:04:26.809 So they're not illegal, you know what I mean? 01:04:26.829 --> 01:04:28.849 And then we, it's whack -a -mole and then we, 01:04:28.909 --> 01:04:30.769 the government's come in and say, okay, no, this 01:04:30.769 --> 01:04:33.170 is now illegal. And then they change the structure 01:04:33.170 --> 01:04:35.510 again, or they find a new strand or whatever, 01:04:35.510 --> 01:04:37.230 but really confusing right now. There's a lot 01:04:37.230 --> 01:04:39.190 going on, a lot of, just a lot of problems with 01:04:39.190 --> 01:04:41.409 it. Yes. So my last question, if you were the 01:04:41.409 --> 01:04:43.869 man up top, the president, how would you attack 01:04:43.869 --> 01:04:46.170 this problem? I'd throw a lot more money is not. 01:04:46.119 --> 01:04:48.340 the solution for everything. We see that with 01:04:48.340 --> 01:04:50.079 look at education. We just threw billions of 01:04:50.079 --> 01:04:51.820 dollars and we still have piss poor education 01:04:51.820 --> 01:04:54.559 in a lot of states. But I do think going back 01:04:54.559 --> 01:04:57.219 to my original thoughts on the war on drugs, 01:04:57.280 --> 01:04:59.559 if you will, there needs to be a holistic approach 01:04:59.559 --> 01:05:01.820 and we need to look at the treatment part. We 01:05:01.820 --> 01:05:04.769 need to wean people off. the drugs, like with 01:05:04.769 --> 01:05:06.769 heroin, it was with the methadone clinics, but 01:05:06.769 --> 01:05:09.150 now we're seeing the suboxone and the other drugs. 01:05:09.250 --> 01:05:12.489 But it has to be in contest with or in connection 01:05:12.489 --> 01:05:14.949 with treatment, like the cognitive behavior. 01:05:15.010 --> 01:05:17.489 Why is this person using drugs? We can wean you 01:05:17.489 --> 01:05:20.170 off all day long from a physical, to make your 01:05:20.170 --> 01:05:22.170 brain not want the drug. But if you're dealing 01:05:22.170 --> 01:05:24.409 with some real crap in your life, we've got to 01:05:24.409 --> 01:05:26.210 deal with that as well. We got to make sure that, 01:05:26.210 --> 01:05:28.610 okay, now you're clean, quote unquote, but you 01:05:28.610 --> 01:05:30.889 still are dealing with some demons that we need 01:05:30.889 --> 01:05:33.179 to help you with as well. So I think that's One 01:05:33.179 --> 01:05:34.920 of the things that I would do is I would certainly 01:05:34.920 --> 01:05:38.280 increase our resources and our ability to do 01:05:38.280 --> 01:05:40.440 that and help people do that. And not just people 01:05:40.440 --> 01:05:42.820 who can afford it, getting in front of people 01:05:42.820 --> 01:05:45.420 and making people aware. It's what I do with 01:05:45.420 --> 01:05:47.559 only two MG, especially with young people. I 01:05:47.559 --> 01:05:49.159 think that's critical. And I think we need to 01:05:49.159 --> 01:05:51.059 do more of that. I think I can tell you from 01:05:51.059 --> 01:05:53.360 my own perspective, most parents won't have these 01:05:53.360 --> 01:05:55.619 conversations, unfortunately, or they won't come 01:05:55.619 --> 01:05:57.500 to these presentations because they don't want 01:05:57.500 --> 01:05:59.739 people to think that their family has a problem. 01:05:59.800 --> 01:06:01.800 That's the biggest reason I've had for not for 01:06:01.800 --> 01:06:03.599 parents. coming, because if we're caught there, 01:06:03.880 --> 01:06:05.659 someone's going to think that something's going 01:06:05.659 --> 01:06:07.699 on in our house, which is absurd. But anyway, 01:06:07.699 --> 01:06:10.500 I would certainly increase the resources, the 01:06:10.500 --> 01:06:12.260 tools and resources for that as well. And the 01:06:12.260 --> 01:06:14.559 enforcement part, I think we're certainly doing 01:06:14.559 --> 01:06:17.179 what we can, going after money, going after these 01:06:17.179 --> 01:06:19.559 supply chains, these distribution networks. We 01:06:19.559 --> 01:06:21.340 need to ramp that up as well, especially at the 01:06:21.340 --> 01:06:23.900 highest level. We have the cartels. They're really 01:06:23.900 --> 01:06:25.960 on the offensive right now, more so than they've 01:06:25.960 --> 01:06:28.380 been maybe ever. We need to keep our foot on 01:06:28.380 --> 01:06:31.099 that neck and just take it off. And I suspect 01:06:31.099 --> 01:06:33.780 that the Those cartels will fragment into other 01:06:33.780 --> 01:06:35.559 organizations. There's always going to be a need. 01:06:35.760 --> 01:06:39.110 You kill one snake, six more pop up. But we need 01:06:39.110 --> 01:06:41.889 to continue to disrupt and dismantle these organizations 01:06:41.889 --> 01:06:44.630 and make it difficult for them to operate. And 01:06:44.630 --> 01:06:47.769 at the same time, get the people help that they 01:06:47.769 --> 01:06:50.809 need to prevent that demand for the drugs. Brian, 01:06:50.929 --> 01:06:53.530 where can people find you and reach out to Eagle 01:06:53.530 --> 01:06:56.210 Six or only two milligrams that they want? Training 01:06:56.210 --> 01:07:00.469 or resources? Yeah, only two MG is ONLY2, just 01:07:00.469 --> 01:07:05.739 the number two, and then MG .com. And I do three 01:07:05.739 --> 01:07:07.760 presentations right now. Right now it's only 01:07:07.760 --> 01:07:10.179 myself. I've had one other instructor who's done 01:07:10.179 --> 01:07:12.199 some local stuff, which is awesome. Eventually 01:07:12.199 --> 01:07:14.219 we want to scale this and have a, I have a ton 01:07:14.219 --> 01:07:16.099 of retired law enforcement folks who want to 01:07:16.099 --> 01:07:17.860 work and want to get into schools and want to 01:07:17.860 --> 01:07:20.019 get into communities and spread this message. 01:07:20.079 --> 01:07:22.179 Problem is we just can't afford it. This is a 01:07:22.179 --> 01:07:24.679 very difficult space to fundraise in, really 01:07:24.679 --> 01:07:27.500 is. People just don't care. We'll digress here 01:07:27.500 --> 01:07:28.940 a little bit, but a little side note. I said, 01:07:29.039 --> 01:07:31.579 what if we, what if someone dies on the street 01:07:31.579 --> 01:07:33.619 who's struggling with drugs, has an addiction? 01:07:33.639 --> 01:07:35.699 And what if that person had a pet? Let's say 01:07:35.699 --> 01:07:38.440 a dog. What if we took ownership of that dog 01:07:38.440 --> 01:07:40.800 and rehomed it? We would probably raise millions 01:07:40.800 --> 01:07:43.320 of dollars. If there's no dog involved, people 01:07:43.320 --> 01:07:45.579 don't care. They just don't. There's a stigma 01:07:45.579 --> 01:07:48.519 to it. So anyway, back to only 2MG. Because of 01:07:48.519 --> 01:07:51.119 that, I'm primarily the only instructor. I do 01:07:51.119 --> 01:07:53.619 three presentations. I do what I call my flagship. 01:07:53.780 --> 01:07:55.860 It's a four -hour presentation. I know it sounds 01:07:55.860 --> 01:07:58.539 like a long time, but I really dive deep into 01:07:58.539 --> 01:08:00.400 fentanyl, everything about fentanyl. Done it 01:08:00.400 --> 01:08:04.480 125, 130 times. I don't know, 30, 40 states right 01:08:04.480 --> 01:08:06.659 now. I have some of the organizations I work 01:08:06.659 --> 01:08:08.300 with, some of the businesses I work with who 01:08:08.300 --> 01:08:10.099 are interested in the drugs, but they're more 01:08:10.099 --> 01:08:12.079 interested in the leadership. I developed a one 01:08:12.079 --> 01:08:13.719 -hour lunch and learn for them because they're 01:08:13.719 --> 01:08:15.480 like, look, Brian, I don't have four hours to 01:08:15.480 --> 01:08:17.600 give you these C -suite executives and stuff 01:08:17.600 --> 01:08:19.199 like that. I'm like, can you give me one hour? 01:08:19.859 --> 01:08:21.420 And the cool thing about that is actually had 01:08:21.420 --> 01:08:23.159 some of these folks come to the four hour because 01:08:23.159 --> 01:08:25.640 they're so overwhelmed by the information. And 01:08:25.640 --> 01:08:27.819 then I have one that I'm really proud of them 01:08:27.819 --> 01:08:29.720 all, but this is one I really enjoy doing. It's 01:08:29.720 --> 01:08:32.079 a one -hour presentation I call Shattering Dreams. 01:08:32.079 --> 01:08:33.819 And I do it for young people. I've done a lot 01:08:33.819 --> 01:08:35.800 of high schools and a lot of colleges. And I 01:08:35.800 --> 01:08:37.319 hope to do more and more of those, especially 01:08:37.319 --> 01:08:39.640 in 2026. And that's when I reached the young 01:08:39.640 --> 01:08:41.859 people. It's one hour is perfect if they'll give 01:08:41.859 --> 01:08:44.020 me an hour. Sometimes schools were like, nah, 01:08:44.020 --> 01:08:47.300 you got 20 minutes, buddy. And I'll take 20 minutes 01:08:47.300 --> 01:08:49.079 if I can get that. I'll take two minutes if I 01:08:49.079 --> 01:08:51.220 can get two minutes. But one hour is my sweet 01:08:51.220 --> 01:08:53.380 spot for that. Contact information's on there. 01:08:53.380 --> 01:08:55.800 We don't charge. If the organization can afford 01:08:55.800 --> 01:08:58.239 it, then great. Make a donation because that'll 01:08:58.239 --> 01:09:00.300 help us. One of the things that I wanted to do 01:09:00.300 --> 01:09:02.329 early on, I'm proud of. of is I didn't want money 01:09:02.329 --> 01:09:04.170 to be a barrier. I don't do this for money. I'm 01:09:04.170 --> 01:09:06.329 probably the only person in this space. In fact, 01:09:06.329 --> 01:09:08.409 I think I'm the only person with a nonprofit 01:09:08.409 --> 01:09:11.069 who hasn't lost a direct family member to fentanyl. 01:09:11.130 --> 01:09:13.930 I do this because, as I said earlier, it gives 01:09:13.930 --> 01:09:16.310 me a sense of purpose. It helps me and it helps 01:09:16.310 --> 01:09:19.210 other people. And I truly believe that you got 01:09:19.210 --> 01:09:20.890 to be a person of action. If you really want 01:09:20.890 --> 01:09:22.630 to make the world better, you got to go out there 01:09:22.630 --> 01:09:24.590 and you got to get off your sofa and just do 01:09:24.590 --> 01:09:26.170 it. You got to put your mouth where your mind 01:09:26.170 --> 01:09:28.909 is or your words are. That makes sense? Yes, 01:09:28.989 --> 01:09:31.630 sir. It's a great mission. That's a great mission. 01:09:32.530 --> 01:09:34.430 Yeah. So I don't have a money tree. I wish I 01:09:34.430 --> 01:09:36.470 did, but I do self -fund a lot of what I do, 01:09:36.510 --> 01:09:38.710 or I use Eagle Six training. I pretty much wipe 01:09:38.710 --> 01:09:40.770 all my Eagle Six training profits out so I can 01:09:40.770 --> 01:09:42.229 travel. Because if someone calls me and says, 01:09:42.229 --> 01:09:43.949 we really want you to come out and do a presentation. 01:09:44.090 --> 01:09:45.829 I'm not going to say I'm so much money. If you 01:09:45.829 --> 01:09:48.149 can't afford it, then no, that's not the conversation. 01:09:48.270 --> 01:09:50.470 I do not want money to be a barrier. I've said 01:09:50.470 --> 01:09:52.949 that from day one and I still hold strong to 01:09:52.949 --> 01:09:55.270 that. I will find a way. If an organization, 01:09:55.569 --> 01:09:57.569 school, whoever wants me to come out, I will 01:09:57.569 --> 01:10:00.310 find a way to fund it. Whether I pay for it myself 01:10:00.310 --> 01:10:02.529 or whether I find a client. Anyway, that's what 01:10:02.529 --> 01:10:05.069 I do from Eagle six training is same thing. Eagle 01:10:05.069 --> 01:10:07.770 six, just the number training .com. If you're 01:10:07.770 --> 01:10:10.090 interested in training or leadership or more 01:10:10.090 --> 01:10:12.369 consulting, happy to work with you as well. Awesome. 01:10:12.449 --> 01:10:14.430 But we really appreciate Brian spending a good 01:10:14.430 --> 01:10:16.909 time with you today. It's been a fantastic conversation. 01:10:17.069 --> 01:10:19.010 And I think we learned a lot right between myself 01:10:19.010 --> 01:10:20.810 and my brother and our audience. I think we learned 01:10:20.810 --> 01:10:23.170 a lot of information today, but we really appreciate 01:10:23.170 --> 01:10:25.149 you joining us here on our show. Thank you guys. 01:10:25.270 --> 01:10:26.989 I appreciate the opportunity and look forward 01:10:26.989 --> 01:10:29.689 to. Re -watching it. Heck yeah, brother. Keep 01:10:29.689 --> 01:10:31.890 up the good work, man. This is some good stuff. 01:10:32.010 --> 01:10:48.510 This is amazing. Thank you. Appreciate it. Yeah, 01:10:48.510 --> 01:10:49.930 man, that was a good interview. He's got a lot 01:10:49.930 --> 01:10:51.869 of information. I thought it was pretty interesting 01:10:51.869 --> 01:10:53.489 hearing everything he had to say. Yeah, I know. 01:10:53.489 --> 01:10:55.270 I was super excited to talk to Brian. It fits 01:10:55.270 --> 01:10:57.090 with my background coming from law enforcement. 01:10:57.109 --> 01:10:59.210 Obviously not super fancy in the DEA like he 01:10:59.210 --> 01:11:02.210 was, but I thought he really provided some good 01:11:02.210 --> 01:11:04.729 insight on what that drug trafficking scene looks 01:11:04.729 --> 01:11:07.529 like today and the threats that are facing our 01:11:07.529 --> 01:11:09.350 country. And I think it's important information, 01:11:09.369 --> 01:11:10.529 as he was kind of talking about, right? It's 01:11:10.529 --> 01:11:13.149 important information for our youth to hear about 01:11:13.149 --> 01:11:14.930 the kind of the value impact that he brings with 01:11:14.930 --> 01:11:16.689 his speeches and why it's important to stay away 01:11:16.689 --> 01:11:19.329 from these drugs. why, even though if they legalize 01:11:19.329 --> 01:11:21.510 marijuana or they continue to legalize other 01:11:21.510 --> 01:11:23.289 drugs in this country, it still doesn't mean 01:11:23.289 --> 01:11:26.229 it's safe to do. And there's a whole lot of bad 01:11:26.229 --> 01:11:27.369 things. Like some people are like, well, they 01:11:27.369 --> 01:11:29.250 legalize marijuana, so it's okay if I go purchase 01:11:29.250 --> 01:11:31.470 a little bit and smoke weed. As you hear from 01:11:31.470 --> 01:11:33.130 Brian saying, you're supporting the cartels and 01:11:33.130 --> 01:11:34.890 you're doing a lot of bad stuff, even if you're 01:11:34.890 --> 01:11:36.630 doing that. I don't know. I think it's a reaffirming 01:11:36.630 --> 01:11:39.630 message and it's important to hear. Yeah. I found 01:11:39.630 --> 01:11:42.970 it really interesting that China is so heavily 01:11:42.970 --> 01:11:45.250 financially involved in the legalized drug market 01:11:45.250 --> 01:11:47.720 in the US. I didn't know that. And I think that's 01:11:47.720 --> 01:11:50.079 scary, man, this one country providing and shipping 01:11:50.079 --> 01:11:52.739 the fentanyl to Mexico, the components to make 01:11:52.739 --> 01:11:55.500 meth, and now they're involved in essentially 01:11:55.500 --> 01:11:58.140 the legalized drug use through marijuana in this 01:11:58.140 --> 01:12:00.239 country. It's just, man, it seems like all fingers 01:12:00.239 --> 01:12:02.640 point back to one place. Yeah. I've heard about 01:12:02.640 --> 01:12:05.079 the precursors coming from China for a long time, 01:12:05.100 --> 01:12:07.300 but they, I think, single -handedly uplift and 01:12:07.300 --> 01:12:09.340 support some of these really bad drugs that are 01:12:09.340 --> 01:12:11.100 coming into our country like fentanyl and meth 01:12:11.100 --> 01:12:13.159 and being able to purchase those products. And 01:12:13.159 --> 01:12:14.800 there's really a no holds bar. China will sell 01:12:14.800 --> 01:12:17.920 you anything for bottom line. But I really enjoyed 01:12:17.920 --> 01:12:19.819 that question you asked because it's essentially 01:12:19.819 --> 01:12:21.819 a proxy war that we're seeing. The country is 01:12:21.819 --> 01:12:23.579 not going to step in and regulate against their 01:12:23.579 --> 01:12:26.319 enemies when they're selling precursors to drugs 01:12:26.319 --> 01:12:27.880 that are being manufactured and distributed in 01:12:27.880 --> 01:12:30.079 the United States that are killing 100 ,000 plus 01:12:30.079 --> 01:12:32.199 people every year. Like, why would they step 01:12:32.199 --> 01:12:34.720 in? But it's essentially a proxy that we're facing 01:12:34.720 --> 01:12:37.300 and I think it needs more attention. I'm not 01:12:37.300 --> 01:12:38.979 sure how much it gets because at the end of the 01:12:38.979 --> 01:12:41.420 day, money is the bottom line. How many pockets 01:12:41.420 --> 01:12:43.739 are lying as voting yay or nay against some of 01:12:43.739 --> 01:12:46.039 these initiatives? Yeah, I always won. We always 01:12:46.039 --> 01:12:48.800 talk about the almighty dollar and how many politicians 01:12:48.800 --> 01:12:52.720 are being paid off to pass legislation, not to 01:12:52.720 --> 01:12:54.819 intervene, just to kind of let stuff to keep. 01:12:54.970 --> 01:12:56.989 flowing through the United States of America, 01:12:57.170 --> 01:12:58.930 man. Like we have, we're super high tech. We 01:12:58.930 --> 01:13:00.689 have all kinds of surveillance. We know where 01:13:00.689 --> 01:13:02.369 all the ships are coming and going. Nothing's 01:13:02.369 --> 01:13:05.369 a mystery. And it's almost, this is the conspiratorial 01:13:05.369 --> 01:13:07.630 side of me coming out, but it's almost like it's 01:13:07.630 --> 01:13:09.890 being allowed to happen. Guys like Brian fighting 01:13:09.890 --> 01:13:12.430 the drug war. And as we know, the federal government 01:13:12.430 --> 01:13:14.630 determines how many agents and what their budgets 01:13:14.630 --> 01:13:16.850 are. And he's, sometimes I think these guys are 01:13:16.850 --> 01:13:18.550 fighting with one hand tied behind their back. 01:13:18.789 --> 01:13:21.109 Oh, a hundred percent. It's nonstop. The ground 01:13:21.109 --> 01:13:23.090 level people are really doing the right things. 01:13:23.109 --> 01:13:24.859 Like when you talk about people. like Brian, 01:13:25.020 --> 01:13:26.899 who were DEA agents. And they're out there to 01:13:26.899 --> 01:13:28.579 do the good work, make a difference. You can 01:13:28.579 --> 01:13:30.399 see how his career really transformed. Like he 01:13:30.399 --> 01:13:32.159 retired, but he's still out in the public eye 01:13:32.159 --> 01:13:34.119 trying to pass on the good message. At the end 01:13:34.119 --> 01:13:36.260 of the day, a lot of these federal law enforcements, 01:13:36.319 --> 01:13:38.720 the heads of them are essentially elected officials. 01:13:38.760 --> 01:13:41.060 So they are carrying a political message down. 01:13:41.119 --> 01:13:43.439 You see a lot of that with Cash Patel. He was 01:13:43.439 --> 01:13:46.020 just an attorney that runs the FBI now. Not saying 01:13:46.020 --> 01:13:48.180 he's a bad or a good guy or indifferent about 01:13:48.180 --> 01:13:50.539 him, but they come in with administrations. And 01:13:50.539 --> 01:13:53.079 when Trump leaves office, whoever the next president 01:13:53.079 --> 01:13:55.159 may be, will bring in their own person to run 01:13:55.159 --> 01:13:57.300 these organizations. And they ultimately dictate 01:13:57.300 --> 01:13:59.220 the policy of what's going to happen. I think 01:13:59.220 --> 01:14:01.819 it's all connected between these super PACs that 01:14:01.819 --> 01:14:05.500 we see and this global economy at scale, whether 01:14:05.500 --> 01:14:08.000 it be for goodness or badness that happened. 01:14:08.359 --> 01:14:11.340 Yeah. I sometimes I just don't understand. You 01:14:11.340 --> 01:14:13.739 brought up Venezuela. They say it's because of 01:14:13.739 --> 01:14:16.760 the drug war. I don't buy it. I don't, I, again, 01:14:16.880 --> 01:14:19.880 I'm limited in my knowledge of cartels and where 01:14:19.880 --> 01:14:22.020 they operate, how big they are. But it seems 01:14:22.020 --> 01:14:24.630 like the major issues in Mexico, it seems like 01:14:24.630 --> 01:14:29.239 it's just a easy excuse is an easy ploy. to invade 01:14:29.239 --> 01:14:30.979 an oil rich country. Yeah. That's what I was 01:14:30.979 --> 01:14:33.100 trying to get to because obviously Brian's the 01:14:33.100 --> 01:14:36.079 expert and neither am I, but it's hard to understand 01:14:36.079 --> 01:14:38.859 why we're bombing ships. I get it. It's helping 01:14:38.859 --> 01:14:41.100 some. It's probably a good thing. Like it's stopping 01:14:41.100 --> 01:14:43.640 drugs from coming into this country, but there's 01:14:43.640 --> 01:14:45.579 got to be an ulterior motive because when Brian 01:14:45.579 --> 01:14:47.340 was talking about the big players, it's all in 01:14:47.340 --> 01:14:49.939 Mexico. And historically, back in the day when 01:14:49.939 --> 01:14:51.399 I was in law enforcement, you hear a lot more 01:14:51.399 --> 01:14:53.760 about South and Central American countries. Venezuela 01:14:53.760 --> 01:14:56.140 was rarely in the conversation. So is it a player 01:14:56.140 --> 01:14:58.340 in the game? Yes. Is it a huge player? the game. 01:14:58.479 --> 01:15:01.199 I'm still not so convinced that it is. And I 01:15:01.199 --> 01:15:03.979 wonder what comes down to that. Is there an ulterior 01:15:03.979 --> 01:15:07.739 motive to paint Venezuela as this big bad guy 01:15:07.739 --> 01:15:10.640 in this scenario when even if you take out Venezuela 01:15:10.640 --> 01:15:12.340 and you remove the president from office, which 01:15:12.340 --> 01:15:14.079 they should, he's a horrible human being, and 01:15:14.079 --> 01:15:16.000 you put what they call the rightful president 01:15:16.000 --> 01:15:18.079 in who just won the Nobel peace prize and she 01:15:18.079 --> 01:15:20.239 takes over. Is it going to be super impactful 01:15:20.239 --> 01:15:22.420 to the drugs that are making way into this country? 01:15:22.539 --> 01:15:25.119 My guess is probably not. I'm not the right person 01:15:25.119 --> 01:15:26.699 to be answering that question, but I really don't 01:15:26.699 --> 01:15:27.960 think it's going to make much of a difference. 01:15:28.100 --> 01:15:30.399 It's just a route and it's just a destination, 01:15:30.699 --> 01:15:32.479 but ultimately it's, they're just going to bring 01:15:32.479 --> 01:15:33.939 it in from somewhere else. Like they're going 01:15:33.939 --> 01:15:35.640 to, and obviously they're manufacturing the bulk 01:15:35.640 --> 01:15:38.060 of it into Mexico. So I don't know how much of 01:15:38.060 --> 01:15:39.399 a difference it actually would make, even if 01:15:39.399 --> 01:15:41.760 we achieve the ultimate end game there. Yeah, 01:15:41.760 --> 01:15:44.159 man, I just think it's another battlefront in 01:15:44.159 --> 01:15:47.180 this global war. You have Ukraine, Russia. I 01:15:47.180 --> 01:15:50.880 know Venezuela is part of the BRICS, you know, 01:15:50.939 --> 01:15:53.939 along with Russia, China, Brazil, and it's resource 01:15:53.939 --> 01:15:56.630 heavy. I think a lot of wars we fight are were 01:15:56.630 --> 01:15:59.010 banker wars and corporate war wars. So we're 01:15:59.010 --> 01:16:00.989 fighting for our currency. We want to get our 01:16:00.989 --> 01:16:03.850 access on oil that's relatively local compared 01:16:03.850 --> 01:16:06.189 to somewhere like the Mideast that opens the 01:16:06.189 --> 01:16:08.390 door for big corporations to go down there and 01:16:08.390 --> 01:16:11.350 set up drilling rigs and refineries. And again, 01:16:11.510 --> 01:16:13.770 I think just a lot of what Iraq was about, I 01:16:13.770 --> 01:16:16.630 think it has to do with resources. I think the 01:16:16.630 --> 01:16:20.189 drug scapegoat is a easy sell to act like you're 01:16:20.189 --> 01:16:22.029 really doing something about the drug war when 01:16:22.029 --> 01:16:24.550 reality is just the ploy in order to say, look 01:16:24.550 --> 01:16:27.329 over here. when in reality you're looking at 01:16:27.329 --> 01:16:29.229 something completely different. But fantastic 01:16:29.229 --> 01:16:31.310 episode. I think everybody, if you're looking 01:16:31.310 --> 01:16:33.590 for somebody to speak on the fentanyl crisis 01:16:33.590 --> 01:16:35.649 here in the country and the problems facing our 01:16:35.649 --> 01:16:38.550 country connected to illicit drugs, reach out 01:16:38.550 --> 01:16:41.590 to Brian, reach out to his nonprofit, to MG. 01:16:42.220 --> 01:16:44.239 Obviously doing a lot of good work. Give them 01:16:44.239 --> 01:16:46.439 donations, man. This is good work. And I thought 01:16:46.439 --> 01:16:47.840 it was almost a little bit funny when he says 01:16:47.840 --> 01:16:49.020 people don't want to show up to these seminars 01:16:49.020 --> 01:16:50.539 because they're afraid if somebody spots us in 01:16:50.539 --> 01:16:52.279 the audience that they're going to think somebody 01:16:52.279 --> 01:16:54.939 in my family has an issue. And I laugh about 01:16:54.939 --> 01:16:56.680 that. If you go to church here, are you possessed? 01:16:56.840 --> 01:16:58.739 No, you're just trying to learn about the topic. 01:16:58.800 --> 01:17:00.979 Like you're trying to gain more information. 01:17:01.119 --> 01:17:03.420 So don't let that stop you from showing up to 01:17:03.420 --> 01:17:05.560 one of his presentations. Obviously a very smart 01:17:05.560 --> 01:17:08.699 man, very well versed in this topic and he can 01:17:08.699 --> 01:17:11.220 help you. As fathers, as strong fathers that 01:17:11.220 --> 01:17:13.390 we are. It's important to have all of the information 01:17:13.390 --> 01:17:15.449 that you can to arm yourself because you don't 01:17:15.449 --> 01:17:17.390 know what hurdles your children are going to 01:17:17.390 --> 01:17:19.310 face in the future. And the more details you 01:17:19.310 --> 01:17:21.890 have to combat this very scary problem that's 01:17:21.890 --> 01:17:24.010 facing our country, the better off yourself is 01:17:24.010 --> 01:17:25.250 going to be. And the better off your children 01:17:25.250 --> 01:17:27.329 are going to be because you take an opportunity 01:17:27.329 --> 01:17:30.470 to learn this information and from a true like 01:17:30.470 --> 01:17:32.909 gold source about it. So yeah, take them up on 01:17:32.909 --> 01:17:35.210 it, man, email them, send some donations as a 01:17:35.210 --> 01:17:36.949 way. They're doing really good work. Yeah, I 01:17:36.949 --> 01:17:39.189 agree. Yeah. Donate, donate. He's doing it out 01:17:39.189 --> 01:17:41.289 of the kindness of his heart, off his own dime. 01:17:41.550 --> 01:17:43.569 And for me personally, man, maybe they don't, 01:17:43.569 --> 01:17:45.710 I don't know, but I feel like every school, every 01:17:45.710 --> 01:17:48.010 college should have some sort of fentanyl awareness, 01:17:48.050 --> 01:17:50.069 man. Like he said, you can get Adderall pills, 01:17:50.270 --> 01:17:52.630 die. Any sort of illicit drug that's in a powder 01:17:52.630 --> 01:17:55.050 or a pill form can be contaminated, man. It's 01:17:55.050 --> 01:17:56.829 not worth your life. It's definitely not worth 01:17:56.829 --> 01:17:58.909 your life. Yeah. Especially these college students 01:17:58.909 --> 01:18:01.090 out there experiment. They're going through their 01:18:01.090 --> 01:18:03.590 drug experimentation phase. Like it's not worth 01:18:03.590 --> 01:18:06.670 it for what? Feel silly for 10 minutes. Two milligrams. 01:18:06.750 --> 01:18:08.930 I've seen plenty of videos where cops are going 01:18:08.930 --> 01:18:10.590 in someone's house and they're they're on the 01:18:10.590 --> 01:18:12.270 ground convulsing because somehow they inhaled 01:18:12.270 --> 01:18:14.289 some fentanyl. It doesn't take much to take your 01:18:14.289 --> 01:18:16.789 life. Yeah. It's also just disgusting stuff and 01:18:16.789 --> 01:18:18.890 highly addictive. And sometimes all it takes 01:18:18.890 --> 01:18:21.430 is one exposure before you're an addict and you're 01:18:21.430 --> 01:18:22.930 chasing your next high. And it's not because 01:18:22.930 --> 01:18:24.729 it's good. It's just because it's addictive. 01:18:25.069 --> 01:18:26.569 Yeah, man. Scary world. What do you want to close 01:18:26.569 --> 01:18:28.789 with tonight? Jesus love you. We love you. Brother, 01:18:28.869 --> 01:18:30.590 I love you. Brian, you're awesome. Keep up the 01:18:30.590 --> 01:18:32.250 good work. It was a pleasure talking to you. 01:18:32.289 --> 01:18:34.310 Yeah, man. Yeah. Keep up the good work. Keep 01:18:34.310 --> 01:18:36.890 up the grind. I think you're making marketable 01:18:36.890 --> 01:18:38.609 change. And we'll do everything in our power 01:18:38.609 --> 01:18:40.680 to tell our... listeners to come out your way 01:18:40.680 --> 01:18:42.840 and listen to some of your conferences and get 01:18:42.840 --> 01:18:44.960 involved with your organization. But as always 01:18:44.960 --> 01:18:47.520 Jay, I love you. Been a fantastic spending the 01:18:47.520 --> 01:18:49.619 past couple of hours with you as we deep dive 01:18:49.619 --> 01:18:52.460 a really interesting topic that, you know, is, 01:18:52.460 --> 01:18:54.720 is connected to real life struggles that many 01:18:54.720 --> 01:18:57.180 people face and, and awesome being able to talk 01:18:57.180 --> 01:18:59.079 to you guys in the audience. Reach out if you 01:18:59.079 --> 01:19:01.159 want to be a guest on our show, if you're an 01:19:01.159 --> 01:19:02.880 expert like Brian, or if somebody you can just 01:19:02.880 --> 01:19:04.840 add value to the conversation, please reach out 01:19:04.840 --> 01:19:07.479 at zero signal truth at gmail .com and hit us 01:19:07.479 --> 01:19:09.359 up and let's have a good con. conversation. Until 01:19:09.359 --> 01:19:10.640 next time, we are Zero Signal.