WEBVTT 00:00:00.140 --> 00:00:02.879 Alright, so check it out. You know how we talk 00:00:02.879 --> 00:00:05.139 about all the weird stuff they sneak into our 00:00:05.139 --> 00:00:07.990 food, our air, or even our clothes? Yeah. It 00:00:07.990 --> 00:00:10.349 turns out most shirts are basically made of plastic. 00:00:10.710 --> 00:00:12.769 You're sweating in chemicals, man. That's why 00:00:12.769 --> 00:00:15.210 I switched to Hypronatural. It's wild. They make 00:00:15.210 --> 00:00:17.570 their fabric from jade stone and crab shells. 00:00:18.010 --> 00:00:20.410 Yeah, you heard me right. Jade and crab shells. 00:00:20.750 --> 00:00:23.089 The jade keeps you naturally cool, like literally 00:00:23.089 --> 00:00:25.489 drops your skin temp down a few degrees. And 00:00:25.489 --> 00:00:27.850 the crab shell fibers, they fight odor and help 00:00:27.850 --> 00:00:30.510 your skin stay fresh all day long. So you can 00:00:30.510 --> 00:00:33.460 wear it longer, wash it less. and not smell like 00:00:33.460 --> 00:00:36.280 a dirty old gym tap. They use a fancy caught 00:00:36.280 --> 00:00:39.640 mother of pearl buttons and zero junk. No polyester, 00:00:39.820 --> 00:00:41.859 no chemical dyes, and none of that synthetic 00:00:41.859 --> 00:00:44.840 garbage. It's clean, it's sustainable, and honestly, 00:00:45.100 --> 00:00:47.060 it's just cool gear. You can wear it anywhere. 00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:50.000 The gym, the range, whatever. And it looks legit. 00:00:50.100 --> 00:00:53.560 Go to hypernatural .com and use my code is zero 00:00:53.560 --> 00:00:55.859 signal at checkout and you'll get yourself 20 00:00:55.859 --> 00:00:58.939 % off. And get yourself the cleanest, most comfortable 00:00:58.939 --> 00:01:01.359 shirt you've ever worn. That's hypernatural. 00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:13.799 Nature engineered for comfort. You're tuned into 00:01:13.799 --> 00:01:16.780 Zero Signal, a show about what they won't say 00:01:16.780 --> 00:01:19.260 and what you're probably already thinking. No 00:01:19.260 --> 00:01:23.019 fluff, no filters, no bullshit. Let's crack it 00:01:23.019 --> 00:01:32.079 open. Welcome back to Zero Signal with your hosts 00:01:32.079 --> 00:01:34.700 David and Jay Green. So Dave, you ever notice 00:01:34.700 --> 00:01:37.239 how every conspiracy has that one moment, that 00:01:37.239 --> 00:01:40.739 one bizarre detail where you go, okay, that's 00:01:40.739 --> 00:01:43.219 too crazy to be real. And then you realize it's 00:01:42.989 --> 00:01:45.489 actually true and has happened? Yeah, you're 00:01:45.489 --> 00:01:47.510 half asleep at 2 a .m., scrolling some sketchy 00:01:47.510 --> 00:01:50.549 forum, reading about mind control, secret drug 00:01:50.549 --> 00:01:53.290 experiments, CIA safe houses with mirrors and 00:01:53.290 --> 00:01:54.870 prostitutes, and you're thinking, all right, 00:01:54.950 --> 00:01:57.370 man, this is fan fiction. Then you look at the 00:01:57.370 --> 00:01:59.870 declassified files and yeah, that actually did 00:01:59.870 --> 00:02:02.430 happen. Welcome to MKUltra. The program's so 00:02:02.430 --> 00:02:04.049 wild, the official version already sounds like 00:02:04.049 --> 00:02:06.609 a bad dream. And tonight we're pulling on a thread 00:02:06.609 --> 00:02:09.590 that starts with Cold War paranoia and runs straight 00:02:09.590 --> 00:02:12.889 through LSD experiments, hypnosis sessions. sensory 00:02:12.889 --> 00:02:15.310 deprivation tanks, midnight brothels, wired with 00:02:15.310 --> 00:02:17.830 cameras, and a government chemist with a clearance 00:02:17.830 --> 00:02:19.889 who lived like a low -key Bond villain. And we're 00:02:19.889 --> 00:02:21.870 talking about Nick Gottlieb, the man who asked, 00:02:22.069 --> 00:02:24.530 what if we could erase mines, rewrite it, or 00:02:24.530 --> 00:02:27.110 bend it? And the CIA said, cool, here's a big 00:02:27.110 --> 00:02:28.990 check. And the best part, most of the documents 00:02:28.990 --> 00:02:31.909 explaining what actually did happen, the dirty 00:02:31.909 --> 00:02:35.169 details were ordered destroyed in 1973. So what 00:02:35.169 --> 00:02:37.810 we know is actually the tip of the iceberg. Which 00:02:37.810 --> 00:02:40.050 means tonight, we're not just talking history, 00:02:40.110 --> 00:02:42.900 we're talking puzzles with Mr. pieces, scattered 00:02:42.900 --> 00:02:45.280 testimonies, and experiments so unethical, they 00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:47.340 make a science fiction look soft. And we'll also 00:02:47.340 --> 00:02:49.719 get into the proven stuff. Montreal, de -patterning, 00:02:49.840 --> 00:02:52.759 the safe houses, the drugging of their own employees. 00:02:52.979 --> 00:02:55.080 But then we're also walking right up to the border, 00:02:55.240 --> 00:02:57.219 maybe over the border, into the conspiratorial 00:02:57.219 --> 00:02:59.699 spillover. The assassins, the cults, the counterculture, 00:02:59.919 --> 00:03:03.080 the Manson rumors. And did they actually succeed 00:03:03.080 --> 00:03:04.819 with these experiments? Because the real question 00:03:04.819 --> 00:03:08.000 isn't did MKUltra happen. It's how far did it 00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:10.060 go, and what was ever made out of it, and what 00:03:10.060 --> 00:03:12.979 happened to those and what was in them. So settle 00:03:12.979 --> 00:03:14.819 in, turn down the lights, grab your popcorn, 00:03:14.939 --> 00:03:16.960 and maybe don't trust your memory for the next 00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:19.199 hour. This is Zero Signal, and tonight, we're 00:03:19.199 --> 00:03:37.430 opening the files they tried to erase. MKUltra 00:03:37.430 --> 00:03:40.770 was a covert CIA behavioral modification program 00:03:40.770 --> 00:03:44.169 that was established back in 1953. And it mainly 00:03:44.169 --> 00:03:46.430 ran through the CIA technical services staff. 00:03:46.530 --> 00:03:49.210 This involved illegal human experimentation, 00:03:49.590 --> 00:03:52.129 the use of drugs, especially LSD. For whatever 00:03:52.129 --> 00:03:54.409 reason, it was heavy in psychedelics. It also 00:03:54.409 --> 00:03:57.289 involved hypnosis, sensory deprivation, and electric 00:03:57.289 --> 00:03:59.490 shock. And to explain to the audience, if you 00:03:59.490 --> 00:04:01.810 don't know what electric shock is, is where they 00:04:01.810 --> 00:04:05.150 put these pads on your head and send high voltage 00:04:05.150 --> 00:04:07.629 currents to your brain. These methods were used 00:04:07.629 --> 00:04:10.169 on unwitting subjects to see if human behavior 00:04:10.169 --> 00:04:12.610 could be controlled or manipulated for intelligence 00:04:12.610 --> 00:04:15.610 or worth their purposes. Many records were deliberately 00:04:15.610 --> 00:04:19.089 destroyed in 1973 when the program was actually 00:04:19.089 --> 00:04:22.370 terminated. And this destruction was on orders 00:04:22.370 --> 00:04:25.410 from the CIA director, Richard Helms. So what 00:04:25.410 --> 00:04:28.329 we largely know today is from surviving financial 00:04:28.329 --> 00:04:32.230 and administrative records. And in 1963, the 00:04:32.230 --> 00:04:35.720 CIA inspector general published a report. the 00:04:35.720 --> 00:04:38.939 1975 church committee investigations and the 00:04:38.939 --> 00:04:42.600 1977 Senate MKUltra hearings. So as you can see, 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:46.639 this was heavily scrutinized by our elected government 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:49.879 during its roughly 20 year tenure as a secret 00:04:49.879 --> 00:04:52.420 program. The official scope from the Senate and 00:04:52.420 --> 00:04:56.399 CIA records included that MKUltra roughly contained 00:04:56.399 --> 00:04:59.920 149 sub projects with roughly 80 institutions 00:04:59.920 --> 00:05:02.839 involved. Most of these institutions were universities, 00:05:03.220 --> 00:05:05.560 hospitals, prisons, and pharma companies. Many 00:05:05.560 --> 00:05:07.740 didn't even know the CIA was funding their work. 00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:10.519 Experiments included LSD and other hallucinogens, 00:05:10.779 --> 00:05:12.800 barbiturates, stimulants, and drug cocktails, 00:05:13.079 --> 00:05:16.199 hypnosis and hypno conditioning, sensory deprivation 00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:19.180 and isolation, sleep deprivation in sleep rooms, 00:05:19.579 --> 00:05:21.620 electroconvulsive treatments paired with drugs, 00:05:21.800 --> 00:05:24.800 and recorded messages, which many refer to as 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:27.779 psychic driving. The core aim of this program 00:05:27.779 --> 00:05:29.399 was to figure out if there was a way to break 00:05:29.399 --> 00:05:32.839 resistance, control memory, create amnesia, or 00:05:32.839 --> 00:05:35.500 shape behavior for interrogation. espionage and 00:05:35.500 --> 00:05:37.860 covert operations. There's also a claim that 00:05:37.860 --> 00:05:40.540 it was used to instill split personalities in 00:05:40.540 --> 00:05:43.819 the people. So one personality could carry this 00:05:43.819 --> 00:05:48.019 secret information, this code, all the knowledge 00:05:48.019 --> 00:05:50.779 that a person would have to be a covert agents. 00:05:51.209 --> 00:05:54.910 When they got to the other side, the person receiving 00:05:54.910 --> 00:05:58.050 the information could use a trigger ward to bring 00:05:58.050 --> 00:06:00.430 this second personality up to the consciousness. 00:06:00.750 --> 00:06:03.449 They could have a conversation, exchange information, 00:06:03.730 --> 00:06:05.550 exchange secrets, and they could use another 00:06:05.550 --> 00:06:07.689 ward to trigger back their primary personality. 00:06:07.970 --> 00:06:11.310 And in retrospect, this primary personality had 00:06:11.310 --> 00:06:14.600 no awareness of the second. personality within 00:06:14.600 --> 00:06:16.699 their psyche. And I think the interesting thing 00:06:16.699 --> 00:06:19.639 is MK Ultra didn't just appear out of nowhere. 00:06:19.639 --> 00:06:22.600 It was born in the Cold War when American intelligence 00:06:22.600 --> 00:06:25.079 was terrified that the Soviets and Chinese had 00:06:25.079 --> 00:06:27.720 discovered this brainwashing. Prisoners of war 00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:31.079 were coming back with broken minds, strange confessions, 00:06:31.180 --> 00:06:33.600 and stories that look like science fiction. The 00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:36.180 question in Washington became simple and quite 00:06:36.180 --> 00:06:38.660 ugly. If the enemy can do this, we can do it 00:06:38.660 --> 00:06:41.899 better. So the CIA built a program to weaponize 00:06:41.899 --> 00:06:45.220 psychology. The ideal was to find ways to control 00:06:45.220 --> 00:06:47.800 a person at the deepest level, not just to get 00:06:47.800 --> 00:06:50.560 them to talk, but to make them different, more 00:06:50.560 --> 00:06:54.000 compliant, more suggestible, or just in the darkest 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:56.939 theories programmable. The people running this 00:06:56.939 --> 00:06:58.959 weren't horror writers. They were scientists, 00:06:59.060 --> 00:07:01.300 doctors, bureaucrats, working with government 00:07:01.300 --> 00:07:04.000 money and national security cover. Conspiracy 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:06.680 researchers look at this origin story and see 00:07:06.680 --> 00:07:09.480 a moral switch flipping. Once you decide that 00:07:09.480 --> 00:07:12.730 national security justifies anything, voluntary 00:07:12.730 --> 00:07:15.230 consent, basic ethics, and even the ideal of 00:07:15.230 --> 00:07:18.649 a stable identity become optional. MK Ultra in 00:07:18.649 --> 00:07:21.410 this view is what happens when a powerful state 00:07:21.410 --> 00:07:24.370 decides that human mind is just another battlefield 00:07:24.370 --> 00:07:26.310 to dominate. Yeah, I think it's an important 00:07:26.310 --> 00:07:28.810 thing to piggyback off your point. So a lot of 00:07:28.810 --> 00:07:31.870 this stuff started after World War II and during 00:07:31.870 --> 00:07:34.879 the early part of the Cold War. and officials 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:37.980 were terrified that the Soviets had these show 00:07:37.980 --> 00:07:41.360 trials and confessions from spies or even in 00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:44.399 certain instances soldiers where the unwilling 00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:48.360 participant essentially spouted whatever the 00:07:48.360 --> 00:07:51.100 party doctrine was at the time, confessing to 00:07:51.100 --> 00:07:54.959 things that they didn't do, confessing to things 00:07:54.959 --> 00:07:58.519 that they had willingly told the Soviets or I 00:07:58.519 --> 00:08:01.220 guess in some cases the North Koreans because 00:08:01.220 --> 00:08:04.699 we had a war back in the 50s. in Korea. So a 00:08:04.699 --> 00:08:07.860 lot of these prisoners of war endured a lot of 00:08:07.860 --> 00:08:10.639 these tortures, these psychedelic experiments, 00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:14.040 the sleep deprivation. So when these guys came 00:08:14.040 --> 00:08:18.000 back home, they seemed to really tout the Soviet 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:20.920 Communist Party line and really believe what 00:08:20.920 --> 00:08:23.620 they had been programmed to believe. And it took 00:08:23.620 --> 00:08:25.759 a lot of them a long time to get deprogrammed. 00:08:25.920 --> 00:08:28.779 So CI Director at the time, Alan Dulles, explicitly 00:08:28.779 --> 00:08:31.420 claimed that Soviets and Chinese were way far 00:08:31.420 --> 00:08:33.409 ahead in brain warfare. and argued that the U 00:08:33.409 --> 00:08:35.889 .S. needed to catch up or suppress them. So it's 00:08:35.889 --> 00:08:38.929 also interesting that Nazi and Imperial Japanese 00:08:38.929 --> 00:08:41.750 have a pretty significant legacy with some of 00:08:41.750 --> 00:08:44.450 the development, as we all know, Operation Paperclip. 00:08:44.509 --> 00:08:46.769 But it's interesting to see that the Nazis and 00:08:46.769 --> 00:08:50.370 Imperial Japanese had a pretty big hand in some 00:08:50.370 --> 00:08:52.649 of these techniques and some of this research. 00:08:52.870 --> 00:08:55.730 So post -war, the U .S. secretly recruited Nazi 00:08:55.730 --> 00:08:58.509 and access scientists via Operation Paperclip, 00:08:58.669 --> 00:09:01.590 including some involved in unethical human experimentation. 00:09:01.710 --> 00:09:03.950 We all know a lot of the horror stories that 00:09:03.950 --> 00:09:06.289 the Japanese and Nazis put people through during 00:09:06.289 --> 00:09:09.210 their reign of terror back in the forties. So 00:09:09.210 --> 00:09:12.429 the U S was interested in the broader climate 00:09:12.429 --> 00:09:15.610 of mining enemy atrocities for data. And this 00:09:15.610 --> 00:09:18.149 kind of helped normalize the idea that ethics 00:09:18.149 --> 00:09:20.549 could be bent for national security. So this 00:09:20.549 --> 00:09:23.370 kind of points back to direct Nazi to MK ultra 00:09:23.370 --> 00:09:25.850 pipelines that are often claimed in the conspiracies. 00:09:26.350 --> 00:09:29.250 Documented links exist where the conceptual level, 00:09:29.330 --> 00:09:32.840 but the direct evidence is a little bit fuzzy, 00:09:32.940 --> 00:09:36.019 but it doesn't take a big logical leap to see 00:09:36.019 --> 00:09:38.320 their fingerprints all over this inception. I 00:09:38.320 --> 00:09:40.679 always ask myself like, maybe this existed back 00:09:40.679 --> 00:09:42.960 in the day and then ethics stepped in and put 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:46.220 it into it. But I think we see a continuation 00:09:46.220 --> 00:09:48.700 of events. If you look at Guantanamo Bay and 00:09:48.700 --> 00:09:51.600 the humiliation of prisoners and sleep deprivation 00:09:51.600 --> 00:09:53.740 and waterboarding, a lot of times I think they're 00:09:53.740 --> 00:09:56.259 just, they're doing another version of MKUltra 00:09:56.259 --> 00:09:58.759 and it never truly stopped. And even if we have 00:09:58.759 --> 00:10:00.700 some ethics here in the United States, Perhaps 00:10:00.700 --> 00:10:02.919 other countries don't and they're continuing 00:10:02.919 --> 00:10:05.480 on this way with different versions of the truth 00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:07.259 serum But and we'll probably talk a little bit 00:10:07.259 --> 00:10:09.379 more about that as we get into the show But I 00:10:09.379 --> 00:10:11.740 think one of the most disturbing parts of MK 00:10:11.740 --> 00:10:14.120 ultra is where it ultimately happened We're not 00:10:14.120 --> 00:10:16.480 talking about secret bunkers in the mountains 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:19.120 We're talking about normal -looking places with 00:10:19.120 --> 00:10:21.720 very respectable signs on the door universities 00:10:21.720 --> 00:10:24.519 research hospitals mental health clinics prisons 00:10:24.519 --> 00:10:27.799 places where people go for help or education 00:10:27.799 --> 00:10:31.039 or rehabilitation money flows into these institutions 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:33.500 through the front foundations and fake grants 00:10:33.500 --> 00:10:36.440 with friendly names. I think on paper, it was 00:10:36.440 --> 00:10:40.039 behavioral science, human ecology, stress research, 00:10:40.039 --> 00:10:42.340 and underneath it could be something very different. 00:10:42.419 --> 00:10:45.259 Heavy drug noses, sleep deprivation, electroshock, 00:10:45.440 --> 00:10:48.259 and forced hypnosis. Patients who believe they 00:10:48.259 --> 00:10:51.220 were getting this cutting edge treatment instead 00:10:51.220 --> 00:10:53.840 of becoming these test subjects, sometimes without 00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:56.620 clear consent, sometimes with no real ideal what 00:10:56.620 --> 00:10:59.269 they actually signed up for. From a a conspiracy 00:10:59.269 --> 00:11:01.590 standpoint, you know, this is kind of the master 00:11:01.590 --> 00:11:03.809 stroke. You don't need a secret island when you 00:11:03.809 --> 00:11:06.669 can turn to the existing system into your lab, 00:11:06.830 --> 00:11:08.889 a doctor in a white coat, a professor with a 00:11:08.889 --> 00:11:11.190 grant, a therapist with a clipboard. These become 00:11:11.190 --> 00:11:14.450 the new face of the black project. And once that's 00:11:14.450 --> 00:11:17.690 normalizes, it raises a scary question. How many 00:11:17.690 --> 00:11:20.049 studies and trials over the decades have quietly 00:11:20.049 --> 00:11:23.289 doubled as data collection for people you never 00:11:23.289 --> 00:11:25.710 actually see the author's list? And it's getting 00:11:25.710 --> 00:11:27.889 ingrained. And I always ask myself, and maybe 00:11:27.789 --> 00:11:29.549 Maybe you have an answer for this one, but like, 00:11:29.649 --> 00:11:32.169 how in the hell did the government get so many 00:11:32.169 --> 00:11:34.850 highly credentialed people to sign up for this 00:11:34.850 --> 00:11:36.570 experimentation? Yeah, to go back to your point, 00:11:36.649 --> 00:11:39.690 I think as long as humans have been alive, we've 00:11:39.690 --> 00:11:42.389 been trying to convince and control one another. 00:11:42.509 --> 00:11:46.090 I think MK Ultras is the official rendition of 00:11:46.090 --> 00:11:48.529 man trying to control man, trying to control 00:11:48.529 --> 00:11:51.049 the belief systems, trying to control the narrative, 00:11:51.210 --> 00:11:53.570 trying to brainwash. And we can go into a bunch 00:11:53.570 --> 00:11:56.090 of examples of how this is reflected in modern 00:11:56.090 --> 00:11:58.480 day society. I think with everything in the government, 00:11:58.600 --> 00:12:01.299 everything is very compartmentalized. So you 00:12:01.299 --> 00:12:03.779 give out grants to scientists, psychologists, 00:12:04.019 --> 00:12:06.200 one guy might be studying a drug, one guy might 00:12:06.200 --> 00:12:08.980 be studying certain forms of psychotherapy. In 00:12:08.980 --> 00:12:11.100 the aggregate, the government's kind of pulling 00:12:11.100 --> 00:12:13.379 all these tools together. And I think at a certain 00:12:13.379 --> 00:12:15.799 stage, the government sees what works, what drugs 00:12:15.799 --> 00:12:18.519 work, what psychotherapy works. And then at the 00:12:18.519 --> 00:12:20.899 top, you may have a handful of guys taking all 00:12:20.899 --> 00:12:23.220 these tools and putting them together and then 00:12:23.220 --> 00:12:25.980 using them to manipulate control and brainwash 00:12:25.980 --> 00:12:28.460 it. at the final stages, but I think in the initial 00:12:28.460 --> 00:12:31.200 stages, some of these scientists are just investigating 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:34.019 whatever they're interested in at the universities 00:12:34.019 --> 00:12:36.259 or in the hospitals and not really knowing what 00:12:36.259 --> 00:12:39.120 the ultimate outcome is. So for I think 90 % 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:41.559 of them, it's just one piece of the puzzle. The 00:12:41.559 --> 00:12:45.440 guys at the top look at the data and they see 00:12:45.440 --> 00:12:47.879 that project A may have worked, project B maybe 00:12:47.879 --> 00:12:51.419 not. So as time goes on, they're taking the cream 00:12:51.419 --> 00:12:53.799 of the crop, these methods, learning them themselves, 00:12:53.799 --> 00:12:56.720 and then implementing them as an aggregate to 00:12:56.720 --> 00:12:59.320 use on these individuals that they're trying 00:12:59.320 --> 00:13:01.919 to control. Yeah, it's twisted because it's not, 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:04.200 Hey, we're going to shoot this gas into the air 00:13:04.200 --> 00:13:06.299 at our enemy and let's see what it does to them. 00:13:06.500 --> 00:13:09.460 It's like literally people in the CIA are drugging 00:13:09.460 --> 00:13:11.820 each other unbeknownst to them and slipping stuff 00:13:11.820 --> 00:13:13.659 into their drinks to see what works and what 00:13:13.659 --> 00:13:15.659 doesn't. To me, it's just wild. Me and you go 00:13:15.659 --> 00:13:17.399 to a bar, you're my brother, but I'm going to 00:13:17.399 --> 00:13:19.080 test this chemical on you and see how it goes 00:13:19.080 --> 00:13:20.899 and see what you do. Like it's for shits and 00:13:20.899 --> 00:13:22.899 giggles, I guess. I don't really know, but it 00:13:22.899 --> 00:13:26.309 seems very twisted. And when we're talking about 00:13:26.309 --> 00:13:29.370 drugs here, MKUltra is almost inseparable from 00:13:29.370 --> 00:13:33.330 LSD. The CIA became obsessed with this new psychedelic, 00:13:33.370 --> 00:13:35.889 wondering if it could be a truth serum, a chaos 00:13:35.889 --> 00:13:38.570 weapon, or this like mind control tool. They 00:13:38.570 --> 00:13:41.029 bought it in bulk and started slipping into people's 00:13:41.029 --> 00:13:43.649 lives. Prisoners, soldiers, psychiatric patients, 00:13:43.809 --> 00:13:46.330 and random civilians in bars and brothels that 00:13:46.330 --> 00:13:48.669 were actually government safe houses wired with 00:13:48.669 --> 00:13:50.690 microphones and cameras so they could watch their 00:13:50.690 --> 00:13:52.830 behavior. Now here's where the conspiracy twist 00:13:52.830 --> 00:13:56.289 kind of kicks in. years later, LSD explodes into 00:13:56.289 --> 00:13:59.610 the 1960s counterculture. It goes from the secret 00:13:59.610 --> 00:14:02.690 experiment to music, art, protest and entire 00:14:02.690 --> 00:14:05.350 lifestyles that revolve around it. The same substance 00:14:05.350 --> 00:14:07.909 that was being tested in these hidden clinics 00:14:07.909 --> 00:14:10.250 suddenly became the sacrament of a generation. 00:14:10.429 --> 00:14:13.129 Was that just organic cultural spread or did 00:14:13.129 --> 00:14:16.289 some of those tabs, those gurus and those scenes 00:14:16.289 --> 00:14:18.970 have a quiet push from intelligence operations 00:14:18.970 --> 00:14:21.149 that had already mapped the drug effects? When 00:14:21.149 --> 00:14:23.340 theory says LSD was intentionally allowed to 00:14:23.340 --> 00:14:26.120 spill out into mass experimentation. They flood 00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:28.580 the use with acid and you study how they behave. 00:14:28.700 --> 00:14:30.919 Maybe you fragment movements that might otherwise 00:14:30.919 --> 00:14:33.840 become politically organized and dangerous. And 00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:36.399 maybe you get a generation that's easier to manage 00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:38.980 and influence because it's tripping instead of 00:14:38.980 --> 00:14:41.039 marching. I think in this view, the sixties weren't 00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:43.399 just this spontaneous uprising. They were also 00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:45.879 in part this MKUltra field test. Yeah. And I 00:14:45.879 --> 00:14:48.080 think we'll explore some of those rabbit holes 00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:49.820 as we get a little bit further into the episode, 00:14:49.820 --> 00:14:52.779 but I wanted to digress to your point. you do 00:14:52.779 --> 00:14:54.820 it on your own people and not do it on the enemy. 00:14:54.899 --> 00:14:57.419 I think the reason we do it within these institutions 00:14:57.419 --> 00:14:59.840 and we do it on our own people is because it's 00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:01.960 in a somewhat controlled environment. So you 00:15:01.960 --> 00:15:04.899 can observe, you can record data. It'd be very 00:15:04.899 --> 00:15:07.720 difficult just to send something or someone over 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:09.879 into let's just say hypothetically Russia or 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:11.720 China or whatever other country in the world. 00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:14.940 Spray this chemical, dose the water supply, but 00:15:14.940 --> 00:15:17.580 you're not really in a position to record anything. 00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:20.720 You're not in a position to observe. So you're 00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:23.440 letting it go and then you're out via drone or 00:15:23.440 --> 00:15:25.720 whatever delivery method you may have. The only 00:15:25.720 --> 00:15:28.240 thing you really can see is the aftermath, but 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:30.470 there are so many unaccounted. variables, you're 00:15:30.470 --> 00:15:33.610 not really sure how the chain reaction unfolded. 00:15:33.649 --> 00:15:35.690 But when you do it on your own people, in your 00:15:35.690 --> 00:15:38.289 own institutions, in your own, within your own 00:15:38.289 --> 00:15:41.250 borders, you're able to observe, you're able 00:15:41.250 --> 00:15:43.970 to make the logical conclusions that you want 00:15:43.970 --> 00:15:46.710 to see and so on. So I think that's why they 00:15:46.710 --> 00:15:49.250 do it on their own people, because it's a great 00:15:49.250 --> 00:15:51.870 batch of guinea pigs that are within a confined 00:15:51.870 --> 00:15:55.769 space and confined institute that you can be 00:15:55.769 --> 00:15:58.990 readily available to draw these conclusions without. 00:15:58.919 --> 00:16:02.139 potentially getting caught or not having the 00:16:02.139 --> 00:16:04.799 ability to see what's happening. Do you think 00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:07.080 the government actually allowed it like this 00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:09.740 LSD to get out there so that they could expand 00:16:09.740 --> 00:16:12.279 their pool? And perhaps was there something going 00:16:12.279 --> 00:16:14.960 on in the country that the government was trying 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:17.940 to lead with a heavier hand to control the populace? 00:16:17.960 --> 00:16:19.679 And maybe this is one way they thought they could 00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:21.659 do it. Yeah, I think so. We hear stories all 00:16:21.659 --> 00:16:23.620 the time about the government experimenting on 00:16:23.620 --> 00:16:25.639 their own people, especially people in the military. 00:16:25.779 --> 00:16:27.960 The Tuskegee experiments where they gave people 00:16:28.139 --> 00:16:31.360 They're just giving people horrible diseases, 00:16:31.820 --> 00:16:35.860 horrible drugs, and they do it with the, I guess, 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:39.559 the intention of using it for warfare. And I'm 00:16:39.559 --> 00:16:42.019 under the impression now that we're under constant 00:16:42.019 --> 00:16:44.919 psychological warfare, be it through social media, 00:16:45.059 --> 00:16:47.279 be it through television, be it through just 00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:49.539 about anything that's out there anymore. And 00:16:49.539 --> 00:16:52.379 LSD can make your brain hyperpliable. It makes 00:16:52.379 --> 00:16:54.820 you super suggestible. It causes you to trip. 00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:56.759 You can have good hallucinations. You can have 00:16:56.759 --> 00:16:59.080 bad hallucinations. nations, people, even the 00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:01.299 tech bros in Silicon Valley are experimenting 00:17:01.299 --> 00:17:04.180 with psilocybin and other type of hallucinogenics. 00:17:04.220 --> 00:17:06.920 And a lot of them microdose, but they microdose 00:17:06.920 --> 00:17:09.980 because they claim that it helps open and create 00:17:09.980 --> 00:17:12.660 new neural pathways so their brain can be more 00:17:12.660 --> 00:17:15.359 plastic and make it easier to learn stuff. I 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:18.140 think that translates, at least in the government's 00:17:18.140 --> 00:17:20.940 point of view, into making your brain more suggestible. 00:17:21.019 --> 00:17:23.539 You're able to implant these ideas. And I find 00:17:23.539 --> 00:17:26.839 it interesting that they introduced LSD to society. 00:17:26.569 --> 00:17:29.109 society, made it mainstream, made it cool. Like 00:17:29.109 --> 00:17:31.430 we're seeing now with marijuana, marijuana is 00:17:31.430 --> 00:17:33.609 pretty mainstream. People use it all the time. 00:17:33.670 --> 00:17:35.910 And now you're, like I said, with the advent 00:17:35.910 --> 00:17:38.630 of these tech bros and even Joe Rogan talks about 00:17:38.630 --> 00:17:40.930 it, talking about taking psychedelics, you hear 00:17:40.930 --> 00:17:44.109 it everywhere, DMT, all these weird things that 00:17:44.109 --> 00:17:45.490 really mess with your mind. So they're trying 00:17:45.490 --> 00:17:48.069 to mainline it into society. And I think that 00:17:48.069 --> 00:17:50.529 opens doors in your head for them to implant 00:17:50.529 --> 00:17:55.170 suggestions and steer social opinion, steer influence. 00:17:55.789 --> 00:17:58.329 I think when you boil it down, brainwash the 00:17:58.329 --> 00:18:00.210 populace. We see it all the time in these cults 00:18:00.210 --> 00:18:03.049 that they use the same type of strategies. It's, 00:18:03.190 --> 00:18:04.990 again, I think you're getting back to psychology 00:18:04.990 --> 00:18:08.470 101. It's repetition, and you need to induce 00:18:08.470 --> 00:18:11.009 a drug that will open doors and make you feel 00:18:11.009 --> 00:18:13.410 good in some instances and make you feel terrified 00:18:13.410 --> 00:18:15.789 in others. It's just a way to screw with your 00:18:15.789 --> 00:18:17.390 head. Yeah, that's a good point. I really think 00:18:17.390 --> 00:18:19.789 we should do an episode on what direction is 00:18:19.789 --> 00:18:23.710 America going in? Because I feel like post -1940s, 00:18:23.809 --> 00:18:25.839 this country is on a down... word to directory 00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:28.940 when it comes to moral values, a connected full 00:18:28.940 --> 00:18:31.380 home that doesn't have divorce. And just the 00:18:31.380 --> 00:18:33.640 moral principle that we stand on is really tread 00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:35.359 in the wrong direction. So it might be interesting 00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:37.779 to do an episode of where it's heading. If you 00:18:37.779 --> 00:18:39.720 want a case study that feels like pure horror, 00:18:39.799 --> 00:18:41.900 you can look at the Montreal connection. In one 00:18:41.900 --> 00:18:44.500 psychiatric hospital, patients check in for everyday 00:18:44.500 --> 00:18:47.279 issues, anxiety, depression, postpartum struggles. 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:48.740 They were told that they were getting advanced 00:18:48.740 --> 00:18:50.720 treatment and what some of them got instead was 00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:53.180 a nightmare. Massive electroshocks, heavy drugs, 00:18:53.500 --> 00:18:55.980 sensory deprivation. and recorded messages played 00:18:55.980 --> 00:18:58.400 over and over while they were sedated or half 00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:01.180 -conscious. The apparent goal was to wipe the 00:19:01.180 --> 00:19:03.680 mind back to a childlike state and then rebuild 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:05.480 it through repetition. I think when we think 00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:07.599 about that, not treating symptoms, but trying 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:10.140 to erase and rewrite a person, some patients 00:19:10.140 --> 00:19:13.299 came out with shattered memories, scrambled identities, 00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:15.619 and missing years of their lives gone. They weren't 00:19:15.619 --> 00:19:17.799 told that they were in a secret program. They 00:19:17.799 --> 00:19:19.839 were told they were being helped by these people. 00:19:19.940 --> 00:19:22.660 This isn't just one unethical experiment. It's 00:19:22.660 --> 00:19:26.079 a crucial proof concept that modern Western hospital 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:28.579 can be turned into a personality reconstructed 00:19:28.579 --> 00:19:31.279 factory. Once you know that happened, even once 00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:34.160 being a respectable front, you start asking how 00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:36.559 many other places tried similar things under 00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:39.839 different names with better security and no paper 00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:42.339 trail left behind. I can't get past that. Meaning 00:19:42.339 --> 00:19:45.500 that if you're experiencing anxiety and you go 00:19:45.500 --> 00:19:47.180 to a hospital and they're like, just give me 00:19:47.180 --> 00:19:49.440 some medication, help me out. And then going 00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:52.400 from having anxiety to like being tortured and 00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:54.609 going through these horrible experiences by people 00:19:54.609 --> 00:19:56.910 that we trust, by people that take Hippocratic 00:19:56.910 --> 00:19:58.849 oaths that says they're going to take care of 00:19:58.849 --> 00:20:01.170 you and look out for your welfare is insanity 00:20:01.170 --> 00:20:03.490 to me. It's just, it's so hardcore and evil. 00:20:03.789 --> 00:20:05.250 No, man, I think you make a good point there. 00:20:05.349 --> 00:20:08.170 Sometimes I wonder, and I probably need to do 00:20:08.170 --> 00:20:09.750 a little bit more research on this, but think 00:20:09.750 --> 00:20:13.509 about the, just the pervasive use of SSRI use 00:20:13.509 --> 00:20:16.069 in modern society. Like all these drugs are relatively 00:20:16.069 --> 00:20:20.710 new, going back 20, 30 years. And you hear horror 00:20:20.710 --> 00:20:22.390 stories all the time about people getting on 00:20:22.390 --> 00:20:25.210 these drugs and might make them feel better for 00:20:25.210 --> 00:20:27.029 a little bit. But when they decide it's time 00:20:27.029 --> 00:20:28.650 to come off, if they've been on them long enough, 00:20:28.690 --> 00:20:31.069 they have horrible withdrawals. And I'm wondering 00:20:31.069 --> 00:20:34.390 if MKUltra didn't contribute to some of these, 00:20:34.390 --> 00:20:36.990 these psychological drugs that people really 00:20:36.990 --> 00:20:38.910 struggle with today. So I think in some sense, 00:20:39.210 --> 00:20:41.349 in some cases they really help. And in other 00:20:41.349 --> 00:20:44.130 cases, I think they're overprescribed and I wonder 00:20:44.130 --> 00:20:46.970 why. I think a lot of some of, I think they're 00:20:46.970 --> 00:20:49.769 great for people to have really bad out of control 00:20:49.769 --> 00:20:52.349 psychological issues, but I know people can just 00:20:52.349 --> 00:20:54.759 be going that. going through a really bad time 00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:57.319 in their life and they hand these drugs out like 00:20:57.319 --> 00:20:59.380 candy. I don't think it takes a whole lot of 00:20:59.380 --> 00:21:01.180 effort to get them or you have to go in there 00:21:01.180 --> 00:21:03.599 and say, I feel sad. I feel anxious. And within 00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:05.839 five minutes you'll have a prescription. And 00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:08.980 it seems like it takes a lot of dialing in to 00:21:08.980 --> 00:21:10.660 see what prescription works. So you might go 00:21:10.660 --> 00:21:12.819 on one. You may not feel any better. Heck, you 00:21:12.819 --> 00:21:14.740 might end up feeling worse. And then they switch 00:21:14.740 --> 00:21:16.380 you to another one. So you're introducing a different 00:21:16.380 --> 00:21:18.119 chemical into your system every two to three 00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:20.200 months until you find something that may work 00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:22.890 for you. But just looking at the data. You can 00:21:22.890 --> 00:21:26.250 compare some of these SSRIs and other psychotropic 00:21:26.250 --> 00:21:28.470 type drugs and compare them to natural things 00:21:28.470 --> 00:21:31.809 like herbs, vitamins, lifestyle changes, diet 00:21:31.809 --> 00:21:34.069 changes, and they're not nearly as effective. 00:21:34.150 --> 00:21:37.190 And I know a lot of people tie these into like 00:21:37.190 --> 00:21:39.390 these mass shootings, these school shootings. 00:21:39.809 --> 00:21:42.730 I think there may be some correlation there, 00:21:42.730 --> 00:21:45.849 but if you even look at the warning labels on 00:21:45.849 --> 00:21:48.170 some of these medicines, it says they may want 00:21:48.170 --> 00:21:50.630 you to commit off yourself and may want you to 00:21:50.630 --> 00:21:53.869 do horrible. unspeakable acts of taking someone's 00:21:53.869 --> 00:21:56.329 life. So they admit that these are some of the 00:21:56.329 --> 00:21:58.849 side effects. And there's countless stories about 00:21:58.849 --> 00:22:01.569 people going off these meds and losing all their 00:22:01.569 --> 00:22:03.930 emotions, losing all their cares, losing all 00:22:03.930 --> 00:22:06.769 their inhibitions. And it's just scary. But I 00:22:06.769 --> 00:22:09.809 kind of want to cycle back a bit to what kind 00:22:09.809 --> 00:22:12.750 of led, what were the, like the forefather programs, 00:22:12.890 --> 00:22:15.390 the MKL truth. So there was a program back in 00:22:15.390 --> 00:22:18.170 1950 called project blue bird. And it focused 00:22:18.170 --> 00:22:21.519 on protecting us personnel from hustle. interrogation. 00:22:21.539 --> 00:22:25.220 So this used like drugs, hypnosis, special interrogation 00:22:25.220 --> 00:22:27.700 techniques to compel information. So just to 00:22:27.700 --> 00:22:29.680 boil that all down, what they were trying to 00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:33.940 do was give their soldiers or assets in the field, 00:22:34.220 --> 00:22:37.079 CIA, et cetera, will have you and give them techniques 00:22:37.079 --> 00:22:40.160 to resist the interrogation tactics of the enemy. 00:22:40.279 --> 00:22:43.119 So that program only really lasted about a year. 00:22:43.339 --> 00:22:46.259 So they say, and that evolved into project artichoke, 00:22:46.299 --> 00:22:49.420 which was created in 1951. And so this was the 00:22:49.420 --> 00:22:51.779 successor. Bluebird, it was more aggressive. 00:22:52.019 --> 00:22:54.579 The experiments included on whether a person 00:22:54.579 --> 00:22:57.140 can be made to commit certain acts against their 00:22:57.140 --> 00:22:59.559 will. So now you're seeing some of the telegraphing 00:22:59.559 --> 00:23:03.680 of what MKUltra really was set up to explore. 00:23:03.859 --> 00:23:06.839 And again, you have the use of heavy drugs, hypnosis, 00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:09.200 psychological pressure, and this would be put 00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:12.359 on detainees and expendable subjects. So sometimes 00:23:12.359 --> 00:23:14.900 I hear that word expendable. It's such a horrible 00:23:14.900 --> 00:23:17.799 term, expendable. It's essentially saying that 00:23:17.799 --> 00:23:19.339 your life doesn't matter, your mental health, 00:23:19.660 --> 00:23:21.480 emotional health, spiritual health, are of no 00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:24.160 consequence to us. And who defines who's expendable 00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:26.579 and who's not? That's a scary one. And this ultimately 00:23:26.579 --> 00:23:29.259 led to MKUltra, which is essentially artichoke 00:23:29.259 --> 00:23:32.519 2 .0. It was larger, more institutionalized within 00:23:32.519 --> 00:23:35.059 the prisons, hospitals, like you mentioned Montreal. 00:23:35.259 --> 00:23:37.440 And it was heavily focused, like you said before, 00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:40.119 on LSD and pharmaceuticals. Look at the timeline 00:23:40.119 --> 00:23:43.519 of the inception of MKUltra. So in the early 00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:47.299 40s, in early 50s, you have the setup. So 1947 00:23:47.299 --> 00:23:51.630 to 1949. The CIA is founded. Covert ops and psychological 00:23:51.630 --> 00:23:54.609 warfare divisions grew rapidly. In 1950, you 00:23:54.609 --> 00:23:57.309 have Project Bluebird. In 51, Bluebird becomes 00:23:57.309 --> 00:24:00.309 Artichoke and it focuses on special interrogation, 00:24:00.430 --> 00:24:03.569 including drugs and hypnosis experiments. 1953 00:24:03.569 --> 00:24:07.369 to 1963, this was MKUltra's quote unquote main 00:24:07.369 --> 00:24:09.670 active period. You have conspiracy theorists 00:24:09.670 --> 00:24:12.130 that now think the program has evolved to new 00:24:12.130 --> 00:24:15.970 names. It's gotten deeper and more occult in 00:24:15.970 --> 00:24:18.490 its processes involving. both the paranormal 00:24:18.490 --> 00:24:21.029 and sort of supernatural. So not to digress too 00:24:21.029 --> 00:24:24.150 much, but in April of 1953, CIA director Alan 00:24:24.150 --> 00:24:27.869 Dulles approves MKUltra. It's ran by Sidney Gottlieb, 00:24:27.950 --> 00:24:30.730 the head of the technical services staff. 1953 00:24:30.730 --> 00:24:34.630 through 63, this again was the peak MKUltra activity. 00:24:34.890 --> 00:24:37.329 Contracts were given to universities and hospitals. 00:24:37.609 --> 00:24:40.349 LSD is given to mental patients, prisoners, drug 00:24:40.349 --> 00:24:42.589 addicts, military personnel, and some ordinary 00:24:42.589 --> 00:24:45.210 citizens. And this was often without consent. 00:24:45.230 --> 00:24:48.579 I would presume that... 99 .9 was given without 00:24:48.579 --> 00:24:51.680 consent. In 1963, you have the inspector general 00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:54.460 report and a partial rollback of the program. 00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:58.220 An internal CI inspector warns that MKUltra is 00:24:58.220 --> 00:25:00.920 ethically and legally dangerous and poorly supervised. 00:25:01.099 --> 00:25:03.380 Some projects are scaled back and rebranded. 00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:05.740 The name MKUltra begins the phase out. In the 00:25:05.740 --> 00:25:07.839 mid sixties and early seventies, you have follow 00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:10.440 -up programs. This is the quiet phase. Certain 00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:13.019 sub -projects roll into successor or parallel 00:25:13.019 --> 00:25:15.799 programs. And we'll get a little bit into MKSearch. 00:25:15.980 --> 00:25:19.369 Kate Naomi and others. But again, we'll save 00:25:19.369 --> 00:25:21.609 that for a little bit later in the episode. MKUltra 00:25:21.609 --> 00:25:23.809 remains mostly entirely unknown to the public. 00:25:23.869 --> 00:25:25.710 And now this is when it starts to get a little 00:25:25.710 --> 00:25:28.490 bit sketchy. So in 1973, you have the document 00:25:28.490 --> 00:25:31.309 destruction. CI Director Richard Helms orders 00:25:31.309 --> 00:25:34.609 most of MKUltra files destroyed. This is apparently 00:25:34.609 --> 00:25:38.490 done to prevent future exposure. Some financial 00:25:38.490 --> 00:25:41.230 records did survive and they survived mostly 00:25:41.230 --> 00:25:43.849 due to being misfiled or stored elsewhere. And 00:25:43.849 --> 00:25:47.589 in 1975 through 77, you have the exposure and 00:25:47.500 --> 00:25:49.900 the Senate hearing. So in 75, the Rockefeller 00:25:49.900 --> 00:25:52.640 commission and church committee began exposing 00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:56.359 domestic CIA abuses, including MKUltra. In 1977, 00:25:56.359 --> 00:25:58.920 you have the Senate subcommittee on health and 00:25:58.920 --> 00:26:01.220 scientific research, and they hold public hearings 00:26:01.220 --> 00:26:05.299 on the program. Survivors testify and Sydney 00:26:05.299 --> 00:26:08.359 Gottlieb appears on subpoena. And the results 00:26:08.359 --> 00:26:11.599 of this report is ongoing document releases, 00:26:11.779 --> 00:26:13.920 mostly through the freedom of information act 00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:16.400 and class action lawsuits where more documents 00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:19.279 emerge. over the decades. In 2024, you have a 00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:21.779 large collection of CIA mind control documents 00:26:21.779 --> 00:26:24.339 that is published by the National Security Archive 00:26:24.339 --> 00:26:27.420 and ProQuest. And in 2025, a newly published 00:26:27.420 --> 00:26:30.440 material includes top secret depositions from 00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:32.299 Sidney Gottlieb to the church community staff, 00:26:32.420 --> 00:26:35.279 providing more detail on LSD experiments, assassination 00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:37.599 -related research, and special interrogations. 00:26:37.819 --> 00:26:40.180 Yeah, to talk about how twisted some of this 00:26:40.180 --> 00:26:42.180 stuff is, when we talk about Project Monarch, 00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:44.920 we are really talking about trauma -based mind 00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:48.670 control. Eric shows up in a lot of survivor testimonies. 00:26:48.789 --> 00:26:51.109 The claim is pretty simple, but absolutely brutal. 00:26:51.430 --> 00:26:54.529 Certain groups used extreme trauma, ritual abuse, 00:26:54.869 --> 00:26:57.450 staged deaths, sexual violence, and psychological 00:26:57.450 --> 00:27:00.130 terror to deliberately fracture the mind into 00:27:00.130 --> 00:27:02.869 separate compartments. Each compartment or alter 00:27:02.869 --> 00:27:05.430 could then be programmed for different purposes. 00:27:05.609 --> 00:27:08.170 In this model, trauma is a side effect. It's 00:27:08.170 --> 00:27:10.349 like the main tool. They put a child through 00:27:10.349 --> 00:27:12.490 enough horror and their mind protects itself 00:27:12.490 --> 00:27:15.210 by splintering. Each fragment can then be shaped. 00:27:15.150 --> 00:27:18.549 One altar for normal life and one for espionage 00:27:18.549 --> 00:27:21.309 or one for seduction, one for violence. And trigger 00:27:21.309 --> 00:27:24.349 words, symbols, hand signs, songs. Switch these 00:27:24.349 --> 00:27:27.210 altars on and off. The front personality has 00:27:27.210 --> 00:27:29.789 no ideal what the others are doing. To the outside 00:27:29.789 --> 00:27:32.150 world, you're dealing with one person. Internally, 00:27:32.150 --> 00:27:34.369 it's a whole cast running different scripts. 00:27:34.569 --> 00:27:38.069 And Monarch is where MKUltra merges with cults, 00:27:38.150 --> 00:27:40.930 elite circles, and generational abuse in our 00:27:40.930 --> 00:27:43.509 narrative. The ideal is that once this kind of 00:27:43.509 --> 00:27:46.319 programming works, becomes a long -term investment. 00:27:46.680 --> 00:27:48.680 It creates controlled assets who can be placed 00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:51.180 in entertainment, politics, and espionage, all 00:27:51.180 --> 00:27:53.680 while looking like regular citizens. Now, whether 00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:56.519 you believe the testimonies or not, Monarch represents 00:27:56.519 --> 00:27:59.599 the logical extreme of MK Ultra's mindset. Not 00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:02.500 just influencing behavior, but redesigning the 00:28:02.500 --> 00:28:05.240 human soul through pain, which is just absolutely 00:28:05.240 --> 00:28:09.099 horrifying. Like, how evil must you be to come 00:28:09.099 --> 00:28:11.079 up with something like this? Obviously, trauma 00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:13.599 does things to people. We've seen it many times. 00:28:13.579 --> 00:28:15.819 when real trauma occurs, a death of a parent, 00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:18.140 a death of a loved one, or abuse by a loved one 00:28:18.140 --> 00:28:20.339 or whatever the case may be, it fractures the 00:28:20.339 --> 00:28:22.539 mind. But to intentionally do this to somebody, 00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:25.039 to take advantage of them, it's like we're putting 00:28:25.039 --> 00:28:27.160 a bunch of child molesters in office. Let them 00:28:27.160 --> 00:28:30.299 free and run experiments on people. So this stuff 00:28:30.299 --> 00:28:33.339 though, maybe makes good topics for movies or 00:28:33.339 --> 00:28:35.359 I think you said that Stranger Things is about 00:28:35.359 --> 00:28:37.259 this. I've never seen that show. It's pretty 00:28:37.259 --> 00:28:39.279 twisted stuff of what they're doing to folks 00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:42.079 in order to gain control over them. A lot of 00:28:42.079 --> 00:28:43.920 people, I remember watching a movie with Denzel 00:28:43.920 --> 00:28:46.059 Washington a long time ago called The Manchurian 00:28:46.059 --> 00:28:49.480 Candidate. It's one of the most famous MKL trick 00:28:49.480 --> 00:28:52.319 conspiracy branches is the ideal of this Manchurian 00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:55.019 candidate, a mind control assassin who doesn't 00:28:55.019 --> 00:28:57.059 know they're actually an assassin. And it goes 00:28:57.059 --> 00:28:59.099 like this. You take a person, you break them 00:28:59.099 --> 00:29:01.240 down through trauma, drugs, and psychological 00:29:01.240 --> 00:29:03.920 manipulation. Then you build artificial identities 00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:06.819 and triggers. A phrase, a song, a symbol, something 00:29:06.819 --> 00:29:09.680 innocuous becomes the key that unlocks a programmed 00:29:09.680 --> 00:29:12.009 behavior. Pick up a gun, pull a trigger. and 00:29:12.009 --> 00:29:14.190 then forget. Every time a strange, seemingly 00:29:14.190 --> 00:29:17.130 senseless assassination or mass shooting happens, 00:29:17.289 --> 00:29:19.690 people start hunting for MKUltra fingerprints. 00:29:19.890 --> 00:29:22.069 Was this person in the military? Did they have 00:29:22.069 --> 00:29:24.089 a history of psychiatric treatment? Did they 00:29:24.089 --> 00:29:26.750 participate in any studies or programs? Are there 00:29:26.750 --> 00:29:29.309 weird gaps in their story, contradictory memories, 00:29:29.589 --> 00:29:32.509 flat effect, or robotic behavior? To most people, 00:29:32.650 --> 00:29:34.829 those are signs of mental illness or stress, 00:29:34.829 --> 00:29:37.930 but to someone with MKUltra in mind, those can 00:29:37.930 --> 00:29:40.329 look like glitches or conditioning. This line 00:29:40.329 --> 00:29:42.269 of thinking leads to to the chilling possibility 00:29:42.269 --> 00:29:45.049 that some events we write off as random horror 00:29:45.049 --> 00:29:48.130 might in theory be carefully designed demonstrations, 00:29:48.190 --> 00:29:50.710 not just to eliminate a target, but to generate 00:29:50.710 --> 00:29:53.410 fear, headlines, and public support for tighter 00:29:53.410 --> 00:29:56.369 controls. You can manufacture an assassin, you 00:29:56.369 --> 00:29:59.289 can manufacture a crisis. And if you can manufacture 00:29:59.289 --> 00:30:02.789 a crisis, you can steer policy without ever firing 00:30:02.789 --> 00:30:05.329 a visible shot. Perhaps you make somebody take 00:30:05.329 --> 00:30:07.410 that shot for you. And I don't know if it works 00:30:07.410 --> 00:30:10.049 or if it doesn't work, but it's some scary stuff. 00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:13.500 I think you can get people to react with these 00:30:13.500 --> 00:30:16.200 trigger words after this programming, all stemming 00:30:16.200 --> 00:30:19.900 from Project Monarch to MKUltra to possibly the 00:30:19.900 --> 00:30:21.799 thousands of other programs that are out there 00:30:21.799 --> 00:30:23.420 that we don't know about. Though some people 00:30:23.420 --> 00:30:25.779 say that the Israelis are still experimenting 00:30:25.779 --> 00:30:28.119 in this space and how can they program assassins 00:30:28.119 --> 00:30:30.339 to do their work? Some people connected to the 00:30:30.339 --> 00:30:32.519 famous guy that just got murdered in front of 00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:35.259 the public. Perhaps it was an MKUltra connection 00:30:35.259 --> 00:30:37.799 to that that caused it to happen. I don't know 00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:40.740 if I believe that, but it is. scary stuff. Yeah, 00:30:40.900 --> 00:30:43.019 I think it goes back to what we talked about 00:30:43.019 --> 00:30:46.279 earlier. It's used to split personality. And 00:30:46.279 --> 00:30:48.240 I know there has been psychological studies of 00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:50.720 people and some people claim to have up to 10 00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:53.259 different personalities within their psyche. 00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:56.240 And the one kind of interesting part about it 00:30:56.240 --> 00:30:59.460 is that each personality can have its own set 00:30:59.460 --> 00:31:03.359 of characteristics versus both physical and mental. 00:31:03.500 --> 00:31:06.539 One personality may be allergic to nuts. The 00:31:06.539 --> 00:31:08.799 other personality, when exposed to nuts, have 00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:12.700 no no visible or physical reaction to them. And 00:31:12.700 --> 00:31:15.420 a lot of these personalities are unaware of one 00:31:15.420 --> 00:31:18.180 another. And the theory behind it is once you 00:31:18.180 --> 00:31:20.720 expose somebody to trauma, and I know you agree 00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:23.119 with me on this, if you're sleep deprived, you're 00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:25.859 doped up with LSD, you're getting an electroshock, 00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:28.859 you're not able to sleep for days on end because 00:31:28.859 --> 00:31:31.039 they're keeping you awake with amphetamines. 00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:33.839 I don't think it too far of a logical jump to 00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:37.750 suggest that with this neural drive this psychic 00:31:37.750 --> 00:31:40.990 driving that you can split someone's psyche and 00:31:40.990 --> 00:31:43.349 program it to be someone completely different 00:31:43.349 --> 00:31:46.400 than who you are. who God made you to be. And 00:31:46.400 --> 00:31:49.640 not to go crazy deep into this, the theory is 00:31:49.640 --> 00:31:52.480 that you can send somebody in their base personality 00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:55.180 to some event. Somebody there can use a trigger 00:31:55.180 --> 00:31:58.059 ward that has been deeply ingrained into their 00:31:58.059 --> 00:32:00.440 subconscious and it can bring forth another quote 00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:02.660 unquote personality to the surface. And this 00:32:02.660 --> 00:32:04.619 personality may have a completely different set 00:32:04.619 --> 00:32:07.960 of skills, a completely different kind of physical 00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:11.779 chemical makeup, and it can do whatever the program 00:32:11.779 --> 00:32:14.650 tells them to do, be it assassination. be it 00:32:14.650 --> 00:32:17.690 delivering information, being the ability to 00:32:17.690 --> 00:32:19.970 resist interrogation because this personality 00:32:19.970 --> 00:32:21.809 doesn't know the information that the other one 00:32:21.809 --> 00:32:25.210 does. So it gets pretty scary and these people 00:32:25.210 --> 00:32:28.190 can use another trigger word to bring forth the 00:32:28.190 --> 00:32:30.569 primary personality or a completely different 00:32:30.569 --> 00:32:32.529 personality altogether to come to the surface. 00:32:32.650 --> 00:32:36.349 I think you saw it with Sirhan when he did assassinate 00:32:36.349 --> 00:32:39.549 RFK and there's been plenty of YouTube videos 00:32:39.549 --> 00:32:41.950 and documented evidence that he says he doesn't 00:32:41.950 --> 00:32:44.450 know what the heck happened. Like he is completely 00:32:44.450 --> 00:32:46.690 unaware of it. People say that when he was there, 00:32:46.910 --> 00:32:49.230 he seemed pretty normal. Then he did that horrible 00:32:49.230 --> 00:32:52.890 act and somehow his base personality came back 00:32:52.890 --> 00:32:54.430 up and he was like, I don't know what happened, 00:32:54.430 --> 00:32:56.450 but obviously he pulled the trigger. You just 00:32:56.450 --> 00:32:58.809 wonder, you ask yourself how many people have 00:32:58.809 --> 00:33:01.230 been through these programs and you can research 00:33:01.230 --> 00:33:03.049 the background and see what institutions they 00:33:03.049 --> 00:33:05.549 went to, what psychiatrists, psychologists that 00:33:05.549 --> 00:33:07.869 they've seen and their backgrounds are sketchy. 00:33:07.970 --> 00:33:11.109 And I'm not blaming the person for being traumatized 00:33:11.109 --> 00:33:13.539 and enduring some of this. psychological torture, 00:33:13.700 --> 00:33:15.819 but you have to ask yourself, like, how many 00:33:15.819 --> 00:33:18.599 people out there have this hidden trigger that 00:33:18.599 --> 00:33:21.039 may manifest at any time? It's just something 00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:23.099 to think about. I know it's a bit conspiratorial, 00:33:23.099 --> 00:33:26.039 but I think there is evidence, at least in psychological 00:33:26.039 --> 00:33:28.640 research, to suggest multiple personalities do 00:33:28.640 --> 00:33:31.200 exist. Whether or not they're programmed by the 00:33:31.200 --> 00:33:33.599 government is a topic that can be argued around, 00:33:33.720 --> 00:33:37.099 but trauma can induce personality splits. Yeah, 00:33:37.099 --> 00:33:40.160 for sure. Whether it's programming or demonic 00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:43.019 possession, I think people can have these split 00:33:43.019 --> 00:33:45.039 personalities disorders. And a lot of the times 00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:46.940 people come up with stuff, they come up with 00:33:46.940 --> 00:33:48.839 a problem so they can sell you the solution, 00:33:48.900 --> 00:33:50.740 like in order to make you sick, in order to heal 00:33:50.740 --> 00:33:52.759 you. Much more reason why even if the cure to 00:33:52.759 --> 00:33:54.740 cancer existed, I'm not sure that they would 00:33:54.740 --> 00:33:56.259 give it to you because they make so much more 00:33:56.259 --> 00:33:58.160 money selling you the treatments for it. One 00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:00.539 of the things I really find interesting about 00:34:00.539 --> 00:34:03.240 MKUltra is the scale. Many people, when you think 00:34:03.240 --> 00:34:06.160 of MKUltra, it sounds like a single dusty file 00:34:06.160 --> 00:34:09.139 in the CIA cabinet, but in reality, it was an 00:34:09.139 --> 00:34:13.900 umbrella of over at least 149 distinct sub -projects. 00:34:13.940 --> 00:34:16.199 That's the numbers the CIA's own financial records 00:34:16.199 --> 00:34:19.780 give us when they were discovered in 1977 and 00:34:19.780 --> 00:34:21.739 handed to the Senate. These sub -projects were 00:34:21.739 --> 00:34:25.280 scattered across more than 80 institutions, universities, 00:34:25.699 --> 00:34:28.059 hospitals, prisons, and private companies. One 00:34:28.059 --> 00:34:31.420 latter summary puts it at 80 -plus known institutions 00:34:31.420 --> 00:34:34.599 and around 185 outside researchers involved. 00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:38.039 Now, what that means in plain language is MKUltra 00:34:38.039 --> 00:34:40.690 wasn't just guys in trench coats. was woven into 00:34:40.690 --> 00:34:42.929 the respectable society. Money moved through 00:34:42.929 --> 00:34:45.650 front groups and foundations with friendly names, 00:34:45.670 --> 00:34:48.550 and then landed on desk of professors, psychiatrists, 00:34:48.570 --> 00:34:51.010 and lab directors. Some knew the CIA was behind 00:34:51.010 --> 00:34:53.250 it. Others just saw grant money to study human 00:34:53.250 --> 00:34:56.070 ecology, stress, or new drugs. And the result 00:34:56.070 --> 00:34:58.969 is that this entire system, academia, medicine, 00:34:59.210 --> 00:35:02.110 corrections, became a disturbed experiment, often 00:35:02.110 --> 00:35:04.789 without people inside realizing they were part 00:35:04.789 --> 00:35:07.329 of this intelligence project. And as we talk 00:35:07.329 --> 00:35:09.130 about just some of them, like the widely known 00:35:09.070 --> 00:35:12.050 ones, whether it be Bluebird or Artichoke or 00:35:12.050 --> 00:35:15.250 the Montreal Project or what have you. How many 00:35:15.250 --> 00:35:17.429 don't we know about? And perhaps how many are 00:35:17.429 --> 00:35:19.949 still going on? Because I think there is still 00:35:19.949 --> 00:35:22.230 some version of this that is occurring inside 00:35:22.230 --> 00:35:25.050 the United States. Even today, whether it's for 00:35:25.050 --> 00:35:28.269 -profit institutions trying to get on board to 00:35:28.269 --> 00:35:31.309 make your food terrible, to sell you dietary 00:35:31.309 --> 00:35:34.050 supplements, to sell you the fix, or the government 00:35:34.050 --> 00:35:36.530 wanting to control you, essentially institutionalize 00:35:36.530 --> 00:35:39.059 you to vote them into office or... to do whatever. 00:35:39.320 --> 00:35:41.920 I still think this exists to some day and yeah, 00:35:42.019 --> 00:35:43.719 it's pretty crazy. Yeah. I want to go back to 00:35:43.719 --> 00:35:45.900 a point you made earlier. You were saying like, 00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:47.780 whether or not it's a split personality or someone 00:35:47.780 --> 00:35:49.900 being demon possessed. I think it's very interesting 00:35:49.900 --> 00:35:52.500 that they use heavy psychedelics on these people. 00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:56.159 And I do think heavy psychedelic used to be psilocybin, 00:35:56.320 --> 00:36:00.550 be LSD. I think the base mechanism is ultimately 00:36:00.550 --> 00:36:03.530 very similar. And I do think it opens like a 00:36:03.530 --> 00:36:06.150 spirit portal in you. And I think it makes you 00:36:06.150 --> 00:36:09.309 susceptible to being possessed by evil entity. 00:36:09.530 --> 00:36:12.010 And I think, you know, I think it's interesting 00:36:12.010 --> 00:36:14.409 that they use that in conjunction with hypnosis 00:36:14.409 --> 00:36:17.550 and with inducing trauma, the kind of lower the 00:36:17.550 --> 00:36:21.630 person's will to let them give permission for 00:36:21.630 --> 00:36:23.489 this entity to come in. And so I think it's a 00:36:23.489 --> 00:36:26.070 good point you made. Sometimes I do wonder how 00:36:26.070 --> 00:36:29.010 much of that is actually demonic possession where 00:36:29.010 --> 00:36:31.429 the person just gives up the autonomy to their 00:36:31.429 --> 00:36:34.849 body and there's an evil entity actually doing 00:36:34.849 --> 00:36:37.909 these deeds. And this is not to absolve the person 00:36:37.909 --> 00:36:40.989 of horrible deeds, but I wonder about that because 00:36:40.989 --> 00:36:43.969 psychedelics can induce forms of psychosis. I 00:36:43.969 --> 00:36:46.190 do think it's a spirit portal. There's been countless 00:36:46.190 --> 00:36:50.030 stories of people having very similar interactions 00:36:50.030 --> 00:36:54.650 with entities and DMT is a particularly interesting 00:36:54.650 --> 00:36:57.360 one where people see the elf. and machines. And 00:36:57.360 --> 00:37:00.699 it just seems a bit odd that everyone has the 00:37:00.699 --> 00:37:03.179 same type of story about these beings that they 00:37:03.179 --> 00:37:05.820 encounter on DMT. You would think everybody, 00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:08.079 given their psychological makeup, their chemical 00:37:08.079 --> 00:37:10.239 makeup, would have different experiences. It's 00:37:10.239 --> 00:37:13.320 just odd that everyone has, when you boil it 00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:15.820 all down, the same exact story and description 00:37:15.820 --> 00:37:18.019 of these entities that they interact with on 00:37:18.019 --> 00:37:20.739 a DMT trip. So I think that's a good point. I 00:37:20.739 --> 00:37:24.300 think a split psyche can manifest different personality 00:37:24.300 --> 00:37:26.719 types and traits. In order to have somebody do 00:37:26.719 --> 00:37:29.360 something that horrific, I think it has a lot 00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:31.920 to do with the destroying the chemical makeup 00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:35.440 of one's brain, reducing their will and allowing 00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:37.940 influences from the outside to override what 00:37:37.940 --> 00:37:40.199 they otherwise would allow or do themselves. 00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:43.179 I don't, I'm not super real wet on psychedelics 00:37:43.179 --> 00:37:45.780 and the thing. Some of it I wonder is obviously 00:37:45.780 --> 00:37:48.679 visualizations come along with it. And I wonder 00:37:48.679 --> 00:37:50.599 if they can make you see something, then you 00:37:50.599 --> 00:37:52.400 will believe it. Kind of like the project blue 00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:54.360 beam callback. Like you can't believe everything 00:37:54.360 --> 00:37:56.340 that you. see, but I wonder if they can influence 00:37:56.340 --> 00:37:59.019 you through that design. I think in my circles, 00:37:59.139 --> 00:38:01.000 one of the most famous things you hear about 00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:03.199 is, you ever heard of somebody take in too much 00:38:03.199 --> 00:38:05.559 Benadryl and everybody sees the same person and 00:38:05.559 --> 00:38:07.300 they call them the hat man? Too much what? I'm 00:38:07.300 --> 00:38:09.380 sorry. What did you say? Yeah. So have you ever 00:38:09.380 --> 00:38:11.860 seen somebody like in my circles when they're 00:38:11.860 --> 00:38:14.139 talking about Benadryl, everybody reports seeing 00:38:14.139 --> 00:38:16.099 the same person and they call them the hat man. 00:38:16.139 --> 00:38:18.199 And that's from falls into that DMT family. You 00:38:18.199 --> 00:38:20.519 take so much, you take it to get high and everybody 00:38:20.519 --> 00:38:23.099 sees the exact same figure when they do it. No, 00:38:23.099 --> 00:38:24.489 I've heard of the hat man. And I didn't know 00:38:24.489 --> 00:38:28.070 that he manifested during an intro trips. The 00:38:28.070 --> 00:38:30.650 only thing I know about is the DMPLs. Yeah. So 00:38:30.650 --> 00:38:33.409 it's weird that everybody sees the same figure. 00:38:33.449 --> 00:38:34.829 Cause you would think if somebody's hallucinating, 00:38:34.889 --> 00:38:36.309 it'd just be whatever they're thinking about. 00:38:36.590 --> 00:38:38.590 Like whether they're taking about the beach or 00:38:38.590 --> 00:38:40.449 whatever, like they would see different things. 00:38:40.530 --> 00:38:42.570 But I do find it super interesting that they 00:38:42.570 --> 00:38:45.750 see it that way. And perhaps there is some connections. 00:38:45.769 --> 00:38:48.789 A lot of people, even like ayahuasca, like it's 00:38:48.789 --> 00:38:51.210 connected to like these ritualistic experiences 00:38:51.210 --> 00:38:54.250 and this counter -cultural world. So I wonder 00:38:54.250 --> 00:38:57.789 if there is some fine line that opens yourself 00:38:57.789 --> 00:39:00.329 up to demonic possession, to these different 00:39:00.329 --> 00:39:01.929 things that you're going to see when you're doing 00:39:01.929 --> 00:39:05.010 these drugs as well. And then you wonder like, 00:39:05.389 --> 00:39:08.250 how could the government do that to us? And I 00:39:08.250 --> 00:39:10.289 think here's the part that kind of cuts deep. 00:39:10.530 --> 00:39:13.789 By the time NK Ultra started, the Numer Code 00:39:13.789 --> 00:39:16.250 already existed. After the trials of the Nazi 00:39:16.250 --> 00:39:19.150 doctors in the 1940s, the world had supposedly 00:39:19.150 --> 00:39:21.949 agreed on a simple principle. You do not experiment 00:39:21.949 --> 00:39:24.679 on humans. human beings without voluntary informed 00:39:24.679 --> 00:39:27.199 consent. That code was widely known in medicine 00:39:27.199 --> 00:39:30.460 and research by the 1950s, the exact moment the 00:39:30.460 --> 00:39:33.639 CIA launched MKUltra and its cousins. They didn't 00:39:33.639 --> 00:39:35.639 stumble over the line by accident, they stepped 00:39:35.639 --> 00:39:37.920 over it on purpose. Senate summaries later noted 00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:40.440 that MKUltra -type experiments were conducted 00:39:40.440 --> 00:39:43.460 on unwitting and non -volunteer subjects, prisoners, 00:39:43.699 --> 00:39:46.119 psychiatric patients, children in state schools, 00:39:46.460 --> 00:39:48.880 sexual psychopaths in hospitals, people whose 00:39:48.880 --> 00:39:51.280 consent was either impossible or deliberately 00:39:51.500 --> 00:39:55.119 bypassed. In other words, while America was publicly 00:39:55.119 --> 00:39:57.739 condemning the horrors of Nazi medical crimes, 00:39:57.940 --> 00:40:00.239 part of its own intelligence apparatus were quietly 00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:03.300 running a parallel playbook under nicer branding. 00:40:03.460 --> 00:40:06.739 And for people like us, that's not just hypocrisy. 00:40:06.940 --> 00:40:09.360 It's evidence of a deep structural belief that 00:40:09.360 --> 00:40:12.219 ethics are optional when power wants answers. 00:40:12.500 --> 00:40:15.320 Yeah, I think, so I ran across a project I didn't 00:40:15.320 --> 00:40:17.880 know anything about. It's called MK Often, and 00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:20.639 it's a less well -documented, often -described 00:40:20.710 --> 00:40:23.650 secondary sources exploring black magic, occult 00:40:23.650 --> 00:40:26.750 and paranormal phenomena alongside psychological 00:40:26.750 --> 00:40:29.550 research. And with my belief in what psychedelics 00:40:29.550 --> 00:40:31.690 are and what doors they open, I think it's a 00:40:31.690 --> 00:40:34.909 natural progression that somebody observing. 00:40:35.460 --> 00:40:38.840 the studies and the research would draw the conclusion 00:40:38.840 --> 00:40:42.360 that, oh yeah, there seems to be somewhat of 00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:45.300 a homogenous beam coming through this mental 00:40:45.300 --> 00:40:48.559 door that we open with psychedelics. So I just 00:40:48.559 --> 00:40:51.000 think for these people doing this research that 00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:53.199 it would be a natural progression to start studying 00:40:53.199 --> 00:40:55.559 black magic, occult and this paranormal stuff. 00:40:55.679 --> 00:40:57.860 So I found that interesting. I didn't do a ton 00:40:57.860 --> 00:41:00.119 of research into it. It's hard to find a lot 00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:02.659 on it because it's not as well documented. And 00:41:02.659 --> 00:41:05.369 a part of me thinks that it's still. probably, 00:41:05.590 --> 00:41:08.869 if not in effect, underneath that title underneath 00:41:08.869 --> 00:41:11.590 a different title that is probably classified 00:41:11.590 --> 00:41:13.969 in or top secret. I kind of want to touch on 00:41:13.969 --> 00:41:16.090 like the hypnosis aspect. Do you know much about 00:41:16.090 --> 00:41:18.329 hypnosis? Not a whole lot, actually. I don't 00:41:18.329 --> 00:41:19.969 know a whole lot about hypnosis. I don't even 00:41:19.969 --> 00:41:21.809 know if I believe in it or not. What about you? 00:41:21.889 --> 00:41:24.150 Yeah. So I know a fair amount about self -hypnosis. 00:41:24.329 --> 00:41:26.510 Essentially what happens is somebody tries to 00:41:26.510 --> 00:41:28.349 get you in a super relaxed state and there's 00:41:28.349 --> 00:41:30.250 a progression to kind of get you to that point. 00:41:30.309 --> 00:41:32.789 And then when you're in that relaxed state, the 00:41:32.789 --> 00:41:35.159 theory is that you're mind is more susceptible 00:41:35.159 --> 00:41:38.199 to suggestions and to behavioral changes. And 00:41:38.199 --> 00:41:40.360 you hear all the stories about, I want to help 00:41:40.360 --> 00:41:43.619 hypnosis session to help me stop smoking or drinking 00:41:43.619 --> 00:41:46.059 or lose weight. But I think when you really boil 00:41:46.059 --> 00:41:49.539 it down, that it is effective, probably less 00:41:49.539 --> 00:41:52.860 than 10 % of the time. So there is a very large 00:41:52.860 --> 00:41:55.119 portion of the population that you're immune 00:41:55.119 --> 00:41:58.460 to hypnosis. I do think everybody is suggestible 00:41:58.460 --> 00:42:00.460 to a degree. And I think you see it with social 00:42:00.460 --> 00:42:03.099 media, TikTok, these kind of 30 second reel. 00:42:03.019 --> 00:42:05.699 where somebody puts something up there and the 00:42:05.699 --> 00:42:07.579 algorithm kind of takes control and over time 00:42:07.579 --> 00:42:09.900 it can nudge you, but that process takes forever. 00:42:10.360 --> 00:42:13.500 But hypnosis in and of itself, it can be a very 00:42:13.500 --> 00:42:16.599 dramatic thing, but it's only really effective 00:42:16.599 --> 00:42:18.579 for a small part of the populace. And I also 00:42:18.579 --> 00:42:20.800 found it interesting. I was listening to someone 00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:23.199 talk and they were talking about MKUltra with 00:42:23.199 --> 00:42:25.539 the combination of trauma -inducing experiences, 00:42:25.739 --> 00:42:28.159 the electric shock, the hypnosis, the drug use. 00:42:28.260 --> 00:42:30.760 He claims, again, I wish I could remember his 00:42:30.760 --> 00:42:33.329 name, but he claims that of all the people that 00:42:33.329 --> 00:42:36.210 go into this program unwillingly or unknowingly 00:42:36.210 --> 00:42:38.929 that it only really works on about 5 % of the 00:42:38.929 --> 00:42:41.090 people. So you may have, let's just say you have 00:42:41.090 --> 00:42:43.889 a hundred people go into the study or this program, 00:42:43.989 --> 00:42:47.909 only five out of the hundred are actually able 00:42:47.909 --> 00:42:50.570 to be programmed with a second personality or 00:42:50.570 --> 00:42:52.329 programmed with a switch to make them do something 00:42:52.329 --> 00:42:54.909 terrible, do something against their will. So 00:42:54.909 --> 00:42:57.369 I think they did end up ending the program because 00:42:57.369 --> 00:43:00.449 of its unethical means, but I think they also 00:43:00.449 --> 00:43:02.809 ended it because they found A lot of people just 00:43:02.809 --> 00:43:05.329 were not, they were not able to get to do with 00:43:05.329 --> 00:43:07.369 what they wanted them to do. And I know like 00:43:07.369 --> 00:43:09.289 when you, I don't know from experience, but I 00:43:09.289 --> 00:43:12.449 know that when people are in LSD introduced trips, 00:43:12.449 --> 00:43:14.929 they might act and behave a certain way that 00:43:14.929 --> 00:43:18.469 is way outside of their norm, but that's temporary. 00:43:18.789 --> 00:43:20.630 And, but they were looking for people that would 00:43:20.630 --> 00:43:23.150 be permanently programmed. So I find it interesting. 00:43:23.210 --> 00:43:25.210 You ever see like a hypnosis session where a 00:43:25.210 --> 00:43:27.190 guy brings someone on the stage, he starts giving 00:43:27.190 --> 00:43:30.349 his, he starts to try to induct them, give them 00:43:30.349 --> 00:43:32.190 suggestions. and he'll walk across the stage 00:43:32.190 --> 00:43:34.210 and touch certain people, pick up their hands. 00:43:34.309 --> 00:43:36.610 And he immediately kicks them off the stage because 00:43:36.610 --> 00:43:39.630 that person is not going to be hypnotized. So 00:43:39.630 --> 00:43:42.309 just know who is suggestible and who isn't. It's 00:43:42.309 --> 00:43:43.750 interesting to watch if you know what you're 00:43:43.750 --> 00:43:45.969 looking for. But again, it's only a very small 00:43:45.969 --> 00:43:48.230 percentage of the population who can actually 00:43:48.230 --> 00:43:50.730 be effectively hypnotized. And I think when we 00:43:50.730 --> 00:43:52.829 look at that, they're like modern -day hypnosis 00:43:52.829 --> 00:43:55.309 and these scam artists, people that we see on 00:43:55.309 --> 00:43:58.530 TV, that's just with hypnosis alone. Look at 00:43:58.530 --> 00:44:01.139 this watch or look at this pendulum and count 00:44:01.139 --> 00:44:04.119 to 10 and you'll be under my control. But I wonder 00:44:04.119 --> 00:44:07.940 if that percentage goes up with drugs and isolation 00:44:07.940 --> 00:44:10.719 and sensory deprivation and all of these torturous 00:44:10.719 --> 00:44:12.599 techniques that they use on people. I wonder 00:44:12.599 --> 00:44:16.400 if that five, 10 % goes up to 45 or 50%. Any 00:44:16.400 --> 00:44:18.559 thoughts? I think in the moment it does. I think 00:44:18.559 --> 00:44:20.659 at a certain point the human psyche tries to 00:44:20.659 --> 00:44:23.059 protect itself. So if you're in a room and you're 00:44:23.059 --> 00:44:25.659 being electrocuted, I think it's akin to torture. 00:44:25.900 --> 00:44:28.559 There's tons of stories about sad to say even 00:44:28.559 --> 00:44:31.420 Americans. is torturing people and mostly prisoners 00:44:31.420 --> 00:44:33.639 of war. But at a certain point, you're just going 00:44:33.639 --> 00:44:35.599 to tell them whatever they want to hear just 00:44:35.599 --> 00:44:38.039 to get out of the situation. So I don't think 00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:40.639 torture in the grand scheme of things is actually 00:44:40.639 --> 00:44:43.179 a useful tool to get information. I can't imagine 00:44:43.179 --> 00:44:45.179 if I'm tied up in a room, they're waterboarding 00:44:45.179 --> 00:44:47.300 me, they're playing loud music. At a certain 00:44:47.300 --> 00:44:50.079 point, I'm not being fed. I'm scared for my life. 00:44:50.139 --> 00:44:51.980 I'm naked. At a certain point, I'll be like, 00:44:51.980 --> 00:44:53.820 I'll tell you what everyone here do to stop. 00:44:54.179 --> 00:44:58.159 And you start out of fear of the torture continuing. 00:44:58.320 --> 00:45:00.780 You're just going to make an elaborate story 00:45:00.780 --> 00:45:03.900 in your head, knowing dang well that it's not 00:45:03.900 --> 00:45:06.380 true just to get them to back off. So I think 00:45:06.380 --> 00:45:10.179 in the situation, yeah, is it true programming? 00:45:10.539 --> 00:45:13.139 No, I think it's someone's survival mechanism 00:45:13.139 --> 00:45:16.360 coming to the surface and just trying to get 00:45:16.360 --> 00:45:18.880 out of the situation. I think when you get outside 00:45:18.880 --> 00:45:21.539 that environment, you're going to be traumatized. 00:45:21.559 --> 00:45:23.739 You're going to be scared. But if anything, I 00:45:23.739 --> 00:45:25.320 think it probably makes you a little bit more 00:45:25.320 --> 00:45:28.510 docile not to do anything crazy. not to get back 00:45:28.510 --> 00:45:31.230 into that situation. So I think, I guess to summarize 00:45:31.230 --> 00:45:33.489 what I'm trying to suggest, I think in this situation, 00:45:33.489 --> 00:45:35.809 you'll do whatever you can to get out of it. 00:45:35.889 --> 00:45:37.730 But once you leave that environment, you're not 00:45:37.730 --> 00:45:40.289 going to continue with the programming with the 00:45:40.289 --> 00:45:42.369 exception of a very small percentage. And I think 00:45:42.369 --> 00:45:44.889 psychedelic use, you get to certain doses, it 00:45:44.889 --> 00:45:47.469 starts to destroy your brain and you lose memories. 00:45:47.650 --> 00:45:50.230 You might seem to come off as a psychotic quack 00:45:50.230 --> 00:45:52.690 and you might have a propensity for violence 00:45:52.690 --> 00:45:54.849 that you didn't have. But at a certain point, 00:45:54.869 --> 00:45:56.949 I don't think your brain, I think you've destroyed 00:45:56.949 --> 00:45:59.230 your frontal lobe. So whatever violence you're 00:45:59.230 --> 00:46:02.110 committing is probably done out of your psychotic 00:46:02.110 --> 00:46:04.489 break or your brain just being destroyed. And 00:46:04.489 --> 00:46:06.949 there's really no rhyme or reason to it. I don't 00:46:06.949 --> 00:46:09.289 think you'd become an effective tool because 00:46:09.289 --> 00:46:11.530 like you're just a dumb fire missile versus a 00:46:11.530 --> 00:46:13.050 guided missile. I think a lot of these people 00:46:13.050 --> 00:46:15.909 just turn into dumb missiles and the chaos and 00:46:15.909 --> 00:46:18.250 tragedy that they call are just random one -offs. 00:46:18.570 --> 00:46:20.989 Yeah. When we talk about torture and people willing 00:46:20.989 --> 00:46:23.329 to say anything, we saw that in my background, 00:46:23.469 --> 00:46:25.190 right? Not that I tortured people, but in law 00:46:25.190 --> 00:46:27.039 enforcement in general. role when they think 00:46:27.039 --> 00:46:30.639 there was inhuman behavior used to solicit a 00:46:30.639 --> 00:46:33.519 false confession. And a lot of our constitution 00:46:33.519 --> 00:46:36.900 laws protect against that today and calling something 00:46:36.900 --> 00:46:39.980 cruel or unusual because people have knowingly 00:46:39.980 --> 00:46:42.719 confessed to murder or to rape or to whatever 00:46:42.719 --> 00:46:46.360 after being in a room. Back in the day when investigators 00:46:46.360 --> 00:46:48.139 were going to interrogate you, they would hold 00:46:48.139 --> 00:46:50.519 you against your will so you'd be detained. They 00:46:50.519 --> 00:46:52.079 would set you in a small room and they would 00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:55.119 interview you for 12, 15 hours. Still some interviews. 00:46:55.179 --> 00:46:58.019 go on for a very long time. And it starts to 00:46:58.019 --> 00:47:00.179 call into question is, do people just want to 00:47:00.179 --> 00:47:01.679 get out of this damn room because they've been 00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:04.500 locked in this single uncomfortable room with 00:47:04.500 --> 00:47:07.039 maybe like an uncomfortable temperature, no blanket, 00:47:07.260 --> 00:47:09.199 no water, nothing to eat or drink. And they're 00:47:09.199 --> 00:47:10.980 willing to say anything because prison is better 00:47:10.980 --> 00:47:13.639 than being in this cell that you have me in right 00:47:13.639 --> 00:47:16.079 now. So a lot of the training I did back in the 00:47:16.079 --> 00:47:18.679 day was to try to prevent that, keep your interviews 00:47:18.679 --> 00:47:21.119 within reason. Sometimes you had to wait, like 00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:23.460 you're not going to interview folks if you just 00:47:23.460 --> 00:47:25.159 had a murder that happened. they would sweep 00:47:25.159 --> 00:47:26.860 the crime scene so I could use the evidence in 00:47:26.860 --> 00:47:28.599 my interview to interrogate. So it might take 00:47:28.599 --> 00:47:30.340 a couple hours where you set into a room, but 00:47:30.340 --> 00:47:32.059 eventually I'll come in and we'll talk. But you 00:47:32.059 --> 00:47:34.179 have to watch that clock to make sure it doesn't 00:47:34.179 --> 00:47:37.699 get too cruel and unusual. I think the big outcome 00:47:37.699 --> 00:47:40.599 with, especially with LSD, but other drugs that 00:47:40.599 --> 00:47:43.039 they were using during this time was it was very 00:47:43.039 --> 00:47:44.980 unpredictable of what the outcome was going to 00:47:44.980 --> 00:47:47.340 look like. I think of the Frank Olsen story, 00:47:47.460 --> 00:47:51.480 the scientist who fell from a window. In 1953, 00:47:52.199 --> 00:47:55.070 Frank Olsen was this government... a biochemist 00:47:55.070 --> 00:47:57.829 working on biological warfare. He wasn't some 00:47:57.829 --> 00:47:59.730 drifter. He had a security clearance, a family, 00:47:59.829 --> 00:48:02.050 a house, and a good salary. Then he went on a 00:48:02.050 --> 00:48:04.750 work retreat in rural Maryland with CIA colleagues. 00:48:04.909 --> 00:48:06.789 One night at dinner, without telling him, his 00:48:06.789 --> 00:48:09.429 bosses slipped him LSD into his drink as part 00:48:09.429 --> 00:48:12.190 of the MKUltra test on their own people. Over 00:48:12.190 --> 00:48:14.789 the next nine days, Frank began to unravel. He 00:48:14.789 --> 00:48:17.710 told his wife he'd made a terrible mistake. He 00:48:17.710 --> 00:48:20.130 was agitated, confused, talking about quitting 00:48:20.130 --> 00:48:22.389 his job. The superiors decided to take him to 00:48:22.389 --> 00:48:24.929 New York. to see a doctor connected to the CIA. 00:48:25.130 --> 00:48:27.110 Instead of getting better, he kept spiraling. 00:48:27.250 --> 00:48:29.510 Then at about two in the morning in a Manhattan 00:48:29.510 --> 00:48:32.769 hotel, Frank went out his 10th floor window and 00:48:32.769 --> 00:48:35.150 hit the sidewalk. The official stories, he jumped. 00:48:35.309 --> 00:48:37.789 Nervous breakdown may be fueled by the surprise 00:48:37.789 --> 00:48:40.489 acid trip. But decades later, after MK Ultra 00:48:40.489 --> 00:48:42.769 started to leak into public view, his family 00:48:42.769 --> 00:48:45.409 pushed back. They had his body exhumed. A new 00:48:45.409 --> 00:48:47.809 forensics exam found head and chest injuries 00:48:47.809 --> 00:48:49.809 that looked more like a beating than a clean 00:48:49.809 --> 00:48:51.730 fall. Some investigators called the evidence 00:48:52.039 --> 00:48:54.780 of homicide. The government eventually admitted 00:48:54.780 --> 00:48:57.679 he'd been dosed with LSD without consent and 00:48:57.679 --> 00:48:59.739 paid his family a settlement, but never admitted 00:48:59.739 --> 00:49:02.699 murder. So you're left with this, a loyal scientist, 00:49:02.860 --> 00:49:05.079 drugged by his own side, dead on the sidewalk, 00:49:05.219 --> 00:49:07.340 and a family that still believes he was silenced 00:49:07.340 --> 00:49:10.099 because he knew too much about MKUltra and other 00:49:10.099 --> 00:49:12.820 programs we're already doing. And we have countless 00:49:12.820 --> 00:49:14.900 horror stories like this, which suggests that 00:49:14.900 --> 00:49:17.099 if they gave him LSD and he did what they wanted, 00:49:17.179 --> 00:49:18.639 they wouldn't worry about it. This is success. 00:49:18.719 --> 00:49:21.619 But it was so unpredictable. And if we see as 00:49:21.619 --> 00:49:24.659 LSD in our society today, that if the chance 00:49:24.659 --> 00:49:27.619 of it being successful is one in 1 ,000 or one 00:49:27.619 --> 00:49:30.260 in 100 ,000 or whatever the case may be, there'd 00:49:30.260 --> 00:49:32.099 probably be different outcomes in play. But this 00:49:32.099 --> 00:49:34.480 was so unpredictable. It was such a colossal 00:49:34.480 --> 00:49:37.039 failure in a way. I didn't do a whole lot of 00:49:37.039 --> 00:49:39.239 research into his case, but I wonder why they 00:49:39.239 --> 00:49:41.940 just randomly dosed him with LSD. But I wonder 00:49:41.940 --> 00:49:44.019 if somebody dosed him and then knocked him off, 00:49:44.280 --> 00:49:45.940 like just pushed him or threw him over the ledge. 00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:48.940 It's a weird story. I think it points back to 00:49:48.940 --> 00:49:52.179 Operation Midnight Climax. they would use prostitutes 00:49:52.179 --> 00:49:54.860 to be a honeypot. So these guys would come up 00:49:54.860 --> 00:49:57.460 to prostitutes, proposition them, and then the 00:49:57.460 --> 00:49:59.380 prostitutes would bring them back to a hotel 00:49:59.380 --> 00:50:01.460 room that had a two -way mirror where the scientists 00:50:01.460 --> 00:50:04.780 could observe. The girls would dose the Johns 00:50:04.780 --> 00:50:08.159 with LSD and then the scientists behind the screen 00:50:08.159 --> 00:50:11.460 would observe. what the guy experienced. So it 00:50:11.460 --> 00:50:13.980 was, I don't think anyone was particularly targeted 00:50:13.980 --> 00:50:17.079 in that whole operation. It was just random guys 00:50:17.079 --> 00:50:19.059 who for whatever reason decided one day they 00:50:19.059 --> 00:50:22.059 wanted to go out and solicit a girl. And I think 00:50:22.059 --> 00:50:25.440 it was more of a research program is to see the 00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:28.159 effects of LSD. Again, I don't know why they 00:50:28.159 --> 00:50:30.019 would do it out in public when they were doing 00:50:30.019 --> 00:50:32.519 it in controlled situations at universities and 00:50:32.519 --> 00:50:35.219 hospitals. I find that one a bit bizarre unless 00:50:35.219 --> 00:50:37.760 they were looking for candidates. Maybe they 00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:41.360 had a list. list of attributes that when manifested 00:50:41.360 --> 00:50:44.159 during an LSD trip, that they were essentially 00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:46.059 looking to recruit a certain type of person. 00:50:46.179 --> 00:50:48.320 It harkens back to what we talked about. Hypnosis, 00:50:48.500 --> 00:50:50.780 a small percentage of the population is highly 00:50:50.780 --> 00:50:53.699 suggestible. And maybe it's the same way when 00:50:53.699 --> 00:50:56.300 you're on an acid trip. Maybe they were looking 00:50:56.300 --> 00:50:59.500 for a way to recruit men cheering like candidates 00:50:59.500 --> 00:51:01.880 because they displayed certain qualities during 00:51:01.880 --> 00:51:03.840 the acid trip. That's the only thing I can draw 00:51:03.840 --> 00:51:05.980 down to it. I just don't know why you would, 00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:08.429 when you already have control environments in 00:51:08.429 --> 00:51:11.190 play that you would just seemingly take completely 00:51:11.190 --> 00:51:14.309 random individuals and experiment on. I wonder 00:51:14.309 --> 00:51:16.530 if because they were getting attention. Oh, you 00:51:16.530 --> 00:51:19.110 can't test at this facility anymore or doctors 00:51:19.110 --> 00:51:21.170 or whoever stepped up and was like, yeah, we're 00:51:21.170 --> 00:51:22.849 not going to be a part of this experimentation. 00:51:22.989 --> 00:51:25.309 And I wonder if they were running out of options. 00:51:25.489 --> 00:51:27.230 Like they had to give it to somebody. They wanted 00:51:27.230 --> 00:51:29.730 to continue their investigation into this drug 00:51:29.730 --> 00:51:32.429 or into this mind control technique. And that's 00:51:32.429 --> 00:51:34.170 what they were left with. So they did it that 00:51:34.170 --> 00:51:36.130 way. Yeah. But I know even today you can sign 00:51:36.130 --> 00:51:37.690 up for drug trial. You don't really know what 00:51:37.690 --> 00:51:39.590 you're getting yourself into. They pay you. Maybe 00:51:39.590 --> 00:51:41.949 it wasn't that way back then. Who knows? I didn't 00:51:41.949 --> 00:51:44.989 do enough research to deduce that. But I would 00:51:44.989 --> 00:51:47.789 think if you wanted to study a drug, you would 00:51:47.789 --> 00:51:49.989 just have some poor college kid or poor guy on 00:51:49.989 --> 00:51:52.530 the street who just needs a quick buck and then 00:51:52.530 --> 00:51:54.230 dose them. I don't even think you really have 00:51:54.230 --> 00:51:56.449 to even tell them what you're giving them. You 00:51:56.449 --> 00:51:59.150 just may have to state something on the research 00:51:59.150 --> 00:52:01.269 saying we're just studying the psychological 00:52:01.269 --> 00:52:03.909 effects of drug ABC. So in my mind, it was more 00:52:03.909 --> 00:52:06.070 of a, it could be a completely wrong opinion. 00:52:05.960 --> 00:52:08.739 And more of a way to see, to see what percentage 00:52:08.739 --> 00:52:11.599 of the population manifested certain characteristics 00:52:11.599 --> 00:52:14.460 while under the influence of a psychedelic. Yeah. 00:52:14.679 --> 00:52:16.860 So my first thought is I feel like I'm on LSD 00:52:16.860 --> 00:52:19.139 because I see two versions of you on my screen. 00:52:22.900 --> 00:52:25.079 That's odd because my cameras are off. I know 00:52:25.079 --> 00:52:27.559 it says J and then zero signal is the other one. 00:52:27.800 --> 00:52:29.639 So there's three people in this call right now. 00:52:29.929 --> 00:52:32.289 Is that the CIA listening to our show? How about 00:52:32.289 --> 00:52:34.610 you tell us what happened? Give us the full rendition 00:52:34.610 --> 00:52:37.269 right now by every hear of the Charles Manson 00:52:37.269 --> 00:52:39.780 MK Ultra link. You actually wanted to go into 00:52:39.780 --> 00:52:41.960 a story real quick and then we'll get into the 00:52:41.960 --> 00:52:44.699 Manson connection, but it jogged my memory because 00:52:44.699 --> 00:52:46.380 you were talking about people could sign up for 00:52:46.380 --> 00:52:48.239 these studies and they would get a material benefit, 00:52:48.239 --> 00:52:50.619 whether it be money or whatever. It reminds me 00:52:50.619 --> 00:52:53.940 of the James Whitey Bulger story. Before he became 00:52:53.940 --> 00:52:56.900 a notorious Boston mob boss, Bulger was this 00:52:56.900 --> 00:52:59.559 young inmate in federal prison in the 1950s. 00:52:59.760 --> 00:53:01.900 Guards told him there was a medical program looking 00:53:01.900 --> 00:53:04.280 for volunteers, an experiment that, you know, 00:53:04.380 --> 00:53:07.000 might help cure schizophrenia, maybe shave time 00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:09.159 off his sentence. this if he signed up for this 00:53:09.159 --> 00:53:11.699 program. What he walked into, according to his 00:53:11.699 --> 00:53:14.159 later letters, wasn't treatment. It was a series 00:53:14.159 --> 00:53:17.340 of brutal high dose LSD sessions, dozens of trips 00:53:17.340 --> 00:53:19.500 over more than a year. He described feeling like 00:53:19.500 --> 00:53:22.239 his head was changing shape, reality shedding 00:53:22.239 --> 00:53:24.880 around him, terror that didn't end with the drug 00:53:24.880 --> 00:53:27.239 war off. He wrote that he thought he was going 00:53:27.239 --> 00:53:29.519 insane and that no one explained what was being 00:53:29.519 --> 00:53:32.400 done to him or even why. Only later did Balger 00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:35.159 learn he had been part of MKUltra -linked prison 00:53:35.159 --> 00:53:37.539 experimentation. Test on inmates. to see how 00:53:37.539 --> 00:53:39.980 far LSD could push a mind and whether it could 00:53:39.980 --> 00:53:42.820 be used to control or break prisoners. He said 00:53:42.820 --> 00:53:45.179 he felt like a lab rat, not a patient, and blamed 00:53:45.179 --> 00:53:48.460 those sessions for lifelong anxiety and paranoia. 00:53:48.539 --> 00:53:50.840 In a strange twist, years after his conviction, 00:53:50.900 --> 00:53:53.219 one of the jurors who helped put him away publicly 00:53:53.219 --> 00:53:55.579 said she regretted the verdict, not because he 00:53:55.579 --> 00:53:58.159 was innocent of his crimes, but because she only 00:53:58.159 --> 00:54:00.039 learned afterward what the government had done 00:54:00.039 --> 00:54:02.119 to him in the name of research. We're talking 00:54:02.119 --> 00:54:04.780 about a guy that was pretty horrible, and Whitey 00:54:04.780 --> 00:54:07.409 Bulger is very famous. And he went through this 00:54:07.409 --> 00:54:10.530 and he later became this famous mob boss. And 00:54:10.530 --> 00:54:12.570 I wonder if that, through that experimentation 00:54:12.570 --> 00:54:15.670 altered his reality and he became this like horrible 00:54:15.670 --> 00:54:17.610 human being from it. Yeah, I think he actually 00:54:17.610 --> 00:54:19.449 ended up being a fed too, wasn't he? Like he 00:54:19.449 --> 00:54:22.230 was a rat. Like he would rat out other mob bosses 00:54:22.230 --> 00:54:25.130 and form the government as to what other gangsters 00:54:25.130 --> 00:54:27.250 and stuff were doing. Or am I making that up? 00:54:27.369 --> 00:54:29.309 No, you're right. He eventually did become a 00:54:29.309 --> 00:54:32.550 witness for the state, but most high profile 00:54:32.550 --> 00:54:35.630 folks like him are in some way, shape or form. 00:54:35.309 --> 00:54:37.289 form a witness for the state because they're 00:54:37.289 --> 00:54:39.030 trying to eliminate competition through that 00:54:39.030 --> 00:54:41.429 fact. And it always reminds me of the, one of 00:54:41.429 --> 00:54:43.989 my favorite movies called The Departed. And the 00:54:43.989 --> 00:54:46.730 entire story is at the end is this guy's an FBI 00:54:46.730 --> 00:54:48.730 informant and he's been able to do whatever the 00:54:48.730 --> 00:54:50.510 hell he wants because he's knocking off all of 00:54:50.510 --> 00:54:52.650 his enemies. And that's very true in our reality 00:54:52.650 --> 00:54:54.769 today. It wasn't Jack Nicholson's character kind 00:54:54.769 --> 00:54:56.929 of based on Whitey Bulger. It was a little bit. 00:54:56.989 --> 00:54:58.909 Yeah. I think it was. Yeah. I think he ended 00:54:58.909 --> 00:55:00.570 up getting knocked off in prison or something, 00:55:00.690 --> 00:55:02.510 didn't he? I don't remember how he ended. I don't 00:55:02.510 --> 00:55:04.409 remember. I think he was super old when he was 00:55:04.409 --> 00:55:06.960 in the federal prison. I think he was being wheel 00:55:06.960 --> 00:55:10.820 -chaired to a medical section and I guess another 00:55:10.820 --> 00:55:14.260 mobster had like locks, like those metal locks 00:55:14.260 --> 00:55:16.760 you put on lockers. beat him to death with it. 00:55:17.300 --> 00:55:20.000 To get back to Charles Manson, there was a pretty 00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:22.619 recent wave of interest. A Netflix documentary 00:55:22.619 --> 00:55:25.320 called Chaos explores whether Charles Manson 00:55:25.320 --> 00:55:27.820 and his inner circle intersected with MKUltra. 00:55:27.900 --> 00:55:30.380 The claims center on frequent contacts with doctors 00:55:30.380 --> 00:55:33.199 and institutions connected to government drug 00:55:33.199 --> 00:55:36.780 research. We all know he was heavily into LSD 00:55:36.780 --> 00:55:40.679 and given his followers heavy acid trips. I think 00:55:40.679 --> 00:55:43.619 there is enough circumstantial evidence to point 00:55:43.619 --> 00:55:46.880 to the fact that he was part of these experiments. 00:55:46.980 --> 00:55:48.860 I know he spent a lot of time in prison before 00:55:48.860 --> 00:55:51.000 his ultimate life sentence. Do you remember the 00:55:51.000 --> 00:55:53.480 actor Danny Trejo? He's like that Mexican guy. 00:55:53.559 --> 00:55:55.179 I think he's Mexican. He's got like the tattoos 00:55:55.179 --> 00:55:57.280 and kind of plays like an action hero, like villain 00:55:57.280 --> 00:55:59.460 in a lot of movies. So I listened to an episode 00:55:59.460 --> 00:56:02.039 of Tinfoil Hat and they had a recording of Danny 00:56:02.039 --> 00:56:05.059 Trejo talking about an interaction he had with 00:56:05.059 --> 00:56:07.280 Charles Manson in prison. And he said, Charles 00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:11.239 Manson could hypnotize you to relive drug experiences, 00:56:11.519 --> 00:56:13.420 like boil it down without getting into too much 00:56:13.420 --> 00:56:16.760 detail. said that Charlie came to him and was 00:56:16.760 --> 00:56:19.739 like, Hey, do you want to experience heroin high? 00:56:20.119 --> 00:56:22.800 And Danny was like, yeah, why not? And he said 00:56:22.800 --> 00:56:25.239 Charles Manson hypnotized them. And he felt like 00:56:25.239 --> 00:56:27.599 he had just taken his first hit of heroin. The 00:56:27.599 --> 00:56:29.539 interesting kind of part of it was like one of 00:56:29.539 --> 00:56:32.039 the, one of the cell mates, Charles Manson tried 00:56:32.039 --> 00:56:34.599 to hypnotize him to experience it and the guy 00:56:34.599 --> 00:56:36.059 couldn't. And they asked him like, why aren't 00:56:36.059 --> 00:56:38.739 you high? And Charles Manson asked the guy, have 00:56:38.739 --> 00:56:40.380 you ever done heroin? The guy said, no, he said, 00:56:40.420 --> 00:56:42.519 I can't hypnotize him because he has no mental 00:56:42.519 --> 00:56:44.460 recollection or physical. a cool recollection 00:56:44.460 --> 00:56:46.860 of what it's like to be on heroin. So I found 00:56:46.860 --> 00:56:49.659 that to be a pretty interesting story. Yeah. 00:56:49.760 --> 00:56:52.159 There's a lot of bad people that are wrapped 00:56:52.159 --> 00:56:54.739 up into this program. And it almost makes me 00:56:54.739 --> 00:56:57.619 go back to think of the demonic possession, because 00:56:57.619 --> 00:57:00.880 another famous story is Ted Kaczynski, which 00:57:00.880 --> 00:57:04.579 we all know is the Unabomber. But Theodore Kaczynski 00:57:04.579 --> 00:57:07.780 was a teenage math prodigy at Harvard. During 00:57:07.780 --> 00:57:10.539 his sophomore year, he was recruited into long 00:57:10.539 --> 00:57:13.750 -term psychological study run by Dr. Henry Murray 00:57:13.750 --> 00:57:16.889 at the Harvard Psychological Clinic. On paper, 00:57:16.889 --> 00:57:19.250 it was to measure how bright young men responded 00:57:19.250 --> 00:57:21.989 to intense stress. But what actually happened 00:57:21.989 --> 00:57:24.889 was a three -year program of purposeful, abusive 00:57:24.889 --> 00:57:27.010 interviews. Kaczynski and other students were 00:57:27.010 --> 00:57:29.489 asked to share their deepest beliefs and personal 00:57:29.489 --> 00:57:31.909 philosophies. Then while wired to monitors, they 00:57:31.909 --> 00:57:34.289 were subjected to vicious, humiliating attacks 00:57:34.289 --> 00:57:36.309 on those beliefs. Told they were stupid, worthless, 00:57:36.570 --> 00:57:38.789 contradictory, where their psychological responses 00:57:38.789 --> 00:57:40.969 were recorded. And this went on for years and 00:57:40.969 --> 00:57:44.530 years. open document. There are stamps of the 00:57:44.530 --> 00:57:47.329 MKUltra label on this case file and there's no 00:57:47.329 --> 00:57:49.789 solid evidence that he was given drugs, but the 00:57:49.789 --> 00:57:52.230 timing, the funding climate, the nature of the 00:57:52.230 --> 00:57:54.550 work, breaking down identities, studying stress, 00:57:54.690 --> 00:57:57.349 mapping reactions, have led many researchers 00:57:57.349 --> 00:58:00.489 and conspiracy thinkers to set this as a psychological 00:58:00.489 --> 00:58:02.909 cousin to MKUltra. In their narrative, you've 00:58:02.909 --> 00:58:05.030 got a brilliant, emotionally fragile teenager 00:58:05.030 --> 00:58:08.250 subject to years of government -linked psychological 00:58:08.250 --> 00:58:10.690 torment who then disappears into a shack in the 00:58:10.690 --> 00:58:13.340 wood and becomes back as America's most infamous 00:58:13.340 --> 00:58:15.539 domestic terrorist. And if you don't draw a straight 00:58:15.539 --> 00:58:18.639 line between these two, the story forces an uncomfortable 00:58:18.639 --> 00:58:21.000 question. How many experiments on young minds 00:58:21.000 --> 00:58:23.619 left scars that nobody traced until it was far 00:58:23.619 --> 00:58:25.840 too late? And we're just talking about all these 00:58:25.840 --> 00:58:28.900 famous, really evil people that killed a lot 00:58:28.900 --> 00:58:31.340 of people in different ways. And I just wonder, 00:58:31.559 --> 00:58:33.920 man, if something of taking these drugs really 00:58:33.920 --> 00:58:37.039 flips that switch into demonic possession and 00:58:37.039 --> 00:58:39.579 it makes you do very evil things. Because from 00:58:39.579 --> 00:58:43.179 Whitey Bulger, to Manson, to Ted Kaczynski, to 00:58:43.179 --> 00:58:45.360 probably many more that we could talk about, 00:58:45.500 --> 00:58:47.360 did some really horrific things when they were 00:58:47.360 --> 00:58:49.699 involved in this experimentation. Yeah. You look 00:58:49.699 --> 00:58:51.960 at cult leaders, especially back in like the 00:58:51.960 --> 00:58:54.099 sixties and seventies. And I wonder how many 00:58:54.099 --> 00:58:57.079 of them have ties back to MKUltra. Like you have 00:58:57.079 --> 00:58:59.380 Jim Jones. There's some loose connections that 00:58:59.380 --> 00:59:01.599 he may have been involved in some of the research 00:59:01.599 --> 00:59:03.519 and studies. And we all know what he did. He 00:59:03.519 --> 00:59:06.460 went down to South America proclaiming religious 00:59:06.460 --> 00:59:09.320 message and convinced his followers at the end. 00:59:09.519 --> 00:59:12.840 I'll drink the juice and off themselves. So I 00:59:12.840 --> 00:59:14.599 think a lot of this information, even though 00:59:14.599 --> 00:59:16.940 they destroy it, what do you make of the 12 ,000 00:59:16.940 --> 00:59:19.579 pages of documents destroyed? What kind of horrible 00:59:19.579 --> 00:59:21.800 crap are they covering up? And then on the back 00:59:21.800 --> 00:59:24.300 end of that question, I wonder how many people 00:59:24.300 --> 00:59:27.239 that they're protecting that are actually Truman 00:59:27.239 --> 00:59:29.880 chairing candidates that are out there that are 00:59:29.880 --> 00:59:33.900 leaders in industry, leaders in religious institutions, 00:59:34.460 --> 00:59:36.739 cult leaders. It's gotta be in the thousands. 00:59:36.820 --> 00:59:38.420 I don't know why else you would destroy it other 00:59:38.420 --> 00:59:40.130 than. Obviously you're trying to cover up the 00:59:40.130 --> 00:59:41.809 horrible crap you've done and you're trying not 00:59:41.809 --> 00:59:43.489 to spend the rest of your life in prison. But 00:59:43.489 --> 00:59:45.510 I think on the other side of that coin is you 00:59:45.510 --> 00:59:47.630 want to protect your assets in the field. You 00:59:47.630 --> 00:59:50.710 don't want people to know who has been programmed, 00:59:50.750 --> 00:59:53.610 who has this information, who is actively using 00:59:53.610 --> 00:59:56.710 it. And I'm sure a lot of this stuff that happened 00:59:56.710 --> 00:59:58.889 back in the fifties, sixties and seventies is 00:59:58.889 --> 01:00:02.869 now manifesting in our social media, in our television, 01:00:02.969 --> 01:00:05.530 our news media. And I don't think it's a far 01:00:05.530 --> 01:00:08.369 leap. The CIA, the FBI, whoever. government, 01:00:08.590 --> 01:00:10.250 and just not the U .S. government, but governments 01:00:10.250 --> 01:00:13.769 all over the world are using the techniques underneath 01:00:13.769 --> 01:00:18.530 different names, different guises to still perpetuate 01:00:18.530 --> 01:00:21.210 this program. Yeah, and you got survivor stories 01:00:21.210 --> 01:00:24.650 as well. Christine Dian Nicolai, sometimes called 01:00:24.650 --> 01:00:27.510 Christine Kaleb in like these older online posts, 01:00:27.670 --> 01:00:30.289 who, you know, she gave public testimony years 01:00:30.289 --> 01:00:32.590 after the official program was supposed to have 01:00:32.590 --> 01:00:34.949 ended. And in her statement, she describes being 01:00:34.949 --> 01:00:38.840 used from childhood into adulthood. roughly 1966 01:00:38.840 --> 01:00:42.420 to 1976, in a series of experiments she says 01:00:42.420 --> 01:00:45.559 involved radiation, drugs, and systematic mind 01:00:45.559 --> 01:00:48.300 control. According to her testimony, the objective 01:00:48.300 --> 01:00:50.780 wasn't therapy or research. It was to shape her 01:00:50.780 --> 01:00:53.400 into a controlled asset, a spy assassin whose 01:00:53.400 --> 01:00:55.900 mind could be steered through programming, triggering 01:00:55.900 --> 01:00:58.980 phrases, and trauma. She talked about self -destruct 01:00:58.980 --> 01:01:01.380 messages, death commands, and later attempts 01:01:01.380 --> 01:01:03.920 by one of her doctors to reverse the implant 01:01:03.920 --> 01:01:06.320 instructions so she wouldn't kill herself on 01:01:06.320 --> 01:01:08.880 cue. In her words, she spent her adult life trying 01:01:08.880 --> 01:01:11.480 to survive programming that was designed to either 01:01:11.480 --> 01:01:14.699 use her or eliminate her. There's no declassified 01:01:14.699 --> 01:01:17.480 file neatly confirming her story, but her account 01:01:17.480 --> 01:01:20.599 lives in this gray zone of congressional testimony, 01:01:20.920 --> 01:01:23.579 survivor networks, and conspiracy archives. The 01:01:23.579 --> 01:01:26.780 MK Ultra world, the stories like Christine's 01:01:26.780 --> 01:01:29.280 are treated as human voice of everything the 01:01:29.280 --> 01:01:31.300 shredded documents don't show us, and what it 01:01:31.300 --> 01:01:34.860 would feel like to live as a long -term experiment 01:01:34.860 --> 01:01:37.159 and to break... breaking and rebuilding the mind. 01:01:37.219 --> 01:01:39.619 And I can only imagine there's many more stories 01:01:39.619 --> 01:01:43.039 out there that confirm the validity of what the 01:01:43.039 --> 01:01:45.260 government was trying to do and why they shredded 01:01:45.260 --> 01:01:47.239 those documents. As you stated, are there more 01:01:47.239 --> 01:01:49.539 assets out there in the field? I guarantee you 01:01:49.539 --> 01:01:51.340 there are, maybe not anymore because we're now 01:01:51.340 --> 01:01:54.380 in 2025. Maybe they're old or self -destructed 01:01:54.380 --> 01:01:56.420 themselves already or whatever the case may be. 01:01:56.460 --> 01:01:59.139 I think there was a big cadre of candidates out 01:01:59.139 --> 01:02:01.739 there to do their bidding and to be that asset 01:02:01.739 --> 01:02:03.920 that they needed. Yeah. Another interesting person, 01:02:04.119 --> 01:02:07.269 Velma Orekha. She was the wife of the Canadian 01:02:07.269 --> 01:02:09.409 prime minister at the time. And she ended up 01:02:09.409 --> 01:02:12.929 going to one of the hospitals secretly conducting 01:02:12.929 --> 01:02:15.349 these MKUltra experiments because of postpartum 01:02:15.349 --> 01:02:17.530 postnatal depression. And she was subjected to 01:02:17.530 --> 01:02:19.690 deep patterning and psychic driving. So they 01:02:19.690 --> 01:02:22.170 ended up suing the government and in lawsuits, 01:02:22.170 --> 01:02:24.949 she testified to losing much of her memory and 01:02:24.949 --> 01:02:27.389 becoming like a child. And she really struggled 01:02:27.389 --> 01:02:30.269 to rebuild her life afterward. And so she became 01:02:30.269 --> 01:02:33.030 the lead plaintiff in Oracle versus the United 01:02:33.030 --> 01:02:39.610 States. the CIA overfunding of the MKUltra program. 01:02:39.889 --> 01:02:42.909 So even people with a lot of power somehow ended 01:02:42.909 --> 01:02:46.949 up in this web of MKUltra. Can you imagine being 01:02:46.949 --> 01:02:49.630 depressed or having anxiety or going to a mental 01:02:49.630 --> 01:02:51.829 hospital or just a regular hospital because you're 01:02:51.829 --> 01:02:53.730 really struggling and next thing you know, you're 01:02:53.730 --> 01:02:55.710 going through this experimentation without your 01:02:55.710 --> 01:02:57.710 knowledge, just making your condition that much 01:02:57.710 --> 01:02:59.869 worse? It's got to be a freaking nightmare, man. 01:02:59.969 --> 01:03:02.590 Yeah. I think about the patient. In the 1950s, 01:03:02.610 --> 01:03:04.820 he had checked into a hospital and signed up 01:03:04.820 --> 01:03:07.340 to get extra privileges, to make some money. 01:03:07.460 --> 01:03:11.119 And they put him on LSD for 77 straight days. 01:03:11.440 --> 01:03:14.500 Now, I've never taken these drugs, but I can 01:03:14.500 --> 01:03:18.059 only imagine what that could do to your psyche 01:03:18.059 --> 01:03:20.820 or what could that do to your mental state. And 01:03:20.820 --> 01:03:24.099 I really think that your reality may start blending. 01:03:24.260 --> 01:03:26.119 If they're just continuously dosing you and you're 01:03:26.119 --> 01:03:28.380 continually hallucinating and the hallucinations 01:03:28.380 --> 01:03:31.699 are getting crazier every time that you experience 01:03:31.699 --> 01:03:34.780 it. Trying to think of a fact that I feel like 01:03:34.780 --> 01:03:36.800 somewhere out there and folks can correct me 01:03:36.800 --> 01:03:38.699 if I'm wrong, but I think they said if you take 01:03:38.699 --> 01:03:41.400 LSD like five times in your lifetime, you could 01:03:41.400 --> 01:03:43.500 be almost clinically insane. Like you could have 01:03:43.500 --> 01:03:45.960 mental issues just from taking it five times. 01:03:46.099 --> 01:03:49.159 I couldn't imagine taking it 77 times in a row. 01:03:49.360 --> 01:03:51.059 I can't imagine what that would do to you outside 01:03:51.059 --> 01:03:53.340 of killing you and you're just an empty hollow 01:03:53.340 --> 01:03:56.719 person at that point. Yeah, I feel like. That 01:03:56.719 --> 01:03:59.800 would just be mental torture. I don't know how 01:03:59.800 --> 01:04:01.699 your psyche you would have. You'd probably be 01:04:01.699 --> 01:04:04.460 so adverse to getting psychological help, but 01:04:04.460 --> 01:04:06.340 you'd almost have to put your psyche back together 01:04:06.340 --> 01:04:08.800 with the help of someone. I would. default to 01:04:08.800 --> 01:04:10.699 Jesus and reading the Bible to put it all back 01:04:10.699 --> 01:04:12.960 together. But I can't imagine just the chemical 01:04:12.960 --> 01:04:14.659 damage you've done to your brain at that point. 01:04:14.860 --> 01:04:16.960 Like your neurochemicals have to be so jacked 01:04:16.960 --> 01:04:18.960 up. Your brain structures have to be so damaged 01:04:18.960 --> 01:04:21.340 that I think it would take years and years of 01:04:21.340 --> 01:04:25.199 therapy and prayer and just intentional self 01:04:25.199 --> 01:04:27.980 love put the pieces back together. I think I 01:04:27.980 --> 01:04:29.599 know we're getting close to the end and that 01:04:29.599 --> 01:04:31.980 we haven't gotten into a ton of the really weird 01:04:31.980 --> 01:04:34.320 conspiracies, but I just want to run through 01:04:34.320 --> 01:04:36.219 a couple of them. Some of them we've talked about, 01:04:36.420 --> 01:04:39.000 but so we have dementia. the theory of the Manchurian 01:04:39.000 --> 01:04:42.369 Candidate Sessions. So, you know, this kind of 01:04:42.369 --> 01:04:45.110 draws from MK Ultra's hypnosis and drug tests 01:04:45.110 --> 01:04:48.070 on subjects. And it points back to political 01:04:48.070 --> 01:04:51.170 figures that have been assassinated and in turn 01:04:51.170 --> 01:04:53.869 relates to people like Lee Harvey Oswald, which 01:04:53.869 --> 01:04:56.050 we talked about a bit. And some people suggest 01:04:56.050 --> 01:04:59.590 that we are still seeing some of these MK Ultra 01:04:59.590 --> 01:05:02.389 type assassinations. Even modern day, like that 01:05:02.389 --> 01:05:05.909 kid who tried to assassinate Trump, the whole 01:05:05.909 --> 01:05:08.690 Charlie Kirk thing is getting super weird. And 01:05:08.690 --> 01:05:10.699 there's some suggestions that. there may have 01:05:10.699 --> 01:05:13.199 been some MK ultra type people involved in that 01:05:13.199 --> 01:05:15.639 whole thing as well. And then you talked a bit 01:05:15.639 --> 01:05:18.400 about Project Monarch and a lot of this has to 01:05:18.400 --> 01:05:21.559 do with celebrity mind control. So the theory 01:05:21.559 --> 01:05:24.800 is that Hollywood stars and musicians are MK 01:05:24.800 --> 01:05:27.460 ultra slaves programmed via trauma symbols and 01:05:27.460 --> 01:05:29.539 triggers since childhood. And you can see some 01:05:29.539 --> 01:05:31.239 of these videos where these celebrities quote 01:05:31.239 --> 01:05:33.719 unquote glitch out and they have weird physical 01:05:33.719 --> 01:05:36.960 movements and they just act super bizarre. I 01:05:36.960 --> 01:05:39.039 think you can write that off to a lot of things 01:05:39.039 --> 01:05:41.599 like be mental health issues, heavy drug use, 01:05:41.860 --> 01:05:44.440 just people that big ego that are just acting 01:05:44.440 --> 01:05:47.199 bizarre just to get clicks. Britney Spears seems 01:05:47.199 --> 01:05:50.159 to be a pretty big one. She's acting very bizarre. 01:05:50.380 --> 01:05:52.820 At a certain point too, it seems like these child 01:05:52.820 --> 01:05:55.480 stars always end up suffering in adulthood. And 01:05:55.480 --> 01:05:58.599 I wonder, could that be attributed to MKUltra 01:05:58.599 --> 01:06:01.920 processes? Yeah, of course. But could that Be 01:06:01.920 --> 01:06:03.920 just mental health problems manifesting because 01:06:03.920 --> 01:06:05.340 when you're a kid, people were telling you how 01:06:05.340 --> 01:06:06.860 great you're famous. You have a ton of money. 01:06:06.920 --> 01:06:09.179 You start creeping into adulthood and next thing 01:06:09.179 --> 01:06:10.780 you know, nobody wants to hang out with. Nobody 01:06:10.780 --> 01:06:12.480 wants to cash you. Nobody wants to hear your 01:06:12.480 --> 01:06:14.320 music. I don't know. That's a rabbit hole. I 01:06:14.320 --> 01:06:16.300 don't think we have time to get into. And I know 01:06:16.300 --> 01:06:18.440 plenty of people that have their theories, but 01:06:18.440 --> 01:06:21.000 how much of it is just drug use? And I think 01:06:21.000 --> 01:06:23.900 a large proponent of it is people just trying 01:06:23.900 --> 01:06:26.719 to stay in the forefront of the media with bizarre 01:06:26.719 --> 01:06:30.380 acts. Like they say, all exposures, good exposures. 01:06:30.510 --> 01:06:32.969 such thing as bad media, bad press. Yeah, I think 01:06:32.969 --> 01:06:35.690 the approach is different, but I think the CIA's 01:06:35.690 --> 01:06:38.090 approach is different to these control experiments. 01:06:38.130 --> 01:06:40.989 I think about Master Sergeant James Stanley, 01:06:41.210 --> 01:06:43.829 who volunteered for experimentation. They gave 01:06:43.829 --> 01:06:46.510 him a clear liquid to drink and he didn't particularly 01:06:46.510 --> 01:06:49.610 hallucinate, but he had like strange reactions. 01:06:49.610 --> 01:06:51.929 It caused depression. He went on with his life, 01:06:52.090 --> 01:06:53.869 forgot about it, but his marriage collapsed. 01:06:54.030 --> 01:06:56.349 His life steered off course and everything fell 01:06:56.349 --> 01:06:59.289 apart for him after doing these drugs. And 17 01:06:59.289 --> 01:07:01.579 years later, later, he gets a counterclaim for 01:07:01.579 --> 01:07:03.199 the United States government saying, sorry about 01:07:03.199 --> 01:07:05.800 testing these drugs on you. We'll try to support 01:07:05.800 --> 01:07:08.039 you, get you some mental health treatment stuff. 01:07:08.320 --> 01:07:09.900 And he had never known that he had been given 01:07:09.900 --> 01:07:11.400 these drugs. He knew he was given something, 01:07:11.400 --> 01:07:13.519 but he didn't know what he was testing and he 01:07:13.519 --> 01:07:15.659 didn't have any crazy hallucinations, but he 01:07:15.659 --> 01:07:17.780 did have behavioral changes. When we think back 01:07:17.780 --> 01:07:19.719 to that era, and I could be wrong, but I don't 01:07:19.719 --> 01:07:22.920 think people knew such powerful drugs existed. 01:07:23.000 --> 01:07:25.280 A lot of people were smoking pot or doing whatever, 01:07:25.559 --> 01:07:27.940 but having these crazy hallucinations really 01:07:27.940 --> 01:07:30.400 change it and alter it. brain chemistry wasn't 01:07:30.400 --> 01:07:33.300 widely known at that time. They didn't have the 01:07:33.300 --> 01:07:35.440 internet. They didn't have the stuff on TV that 01:07:35.440 --> 01:07:37.960 people weren't into about or talking about. Now 01:07:37.960 --> 01:07:40.539 in modern days, everybody knows about LSD. We're 01:07:40.539 --> 01:07:42.760 talking about on this show, doctors trying to 01:07:42.760 --> 01:07:45.940 sell it to you in micro doses to help with anxiety 01:07:45.940 --> 01:07:48.280 and depression, much like mushrooms or whatever 01:07:48.280 --> 01:07:50.679 the case may be. So everybody knows about it 01:07:50.679 --> 01:07:53.199 to some extent. They know it's this very powerful 01:07:53.199 --> 01:07:55.719 drug. You're part of the alternate crowd where 01:07:55.719 --> 01:07:57.460 you think it's going to heal you, or you're part 01:07:57.460 --> 01:07:59.599 of the crowd that enjoys it as a party favor 01:07:59.599 --> 01:08:01.719 or you're like me and you think it's all bad 01:08:01.719 --> 01:08:03.340 stuff and you should stay away from it because 01:08:03.340 --> 01:08:05.880 you know it's going to have unintended consequences. 01:08:05.940 --> 01:08:09.059 So I think now you've got to change your engagement 01:08:09.059 --> 01:08:11.400 strategy if you're thinking like a CIA analyst 01:08:11.400 --> 01:08:14.840 and you want to continue to sway people's opinions 01:08:14.840 --> 01:08:18.000 or do your bidding for you. And I think we see 01:08:18.000 --> 01:08:20.140 a lot of that with the internet as you touched 01:08:20.140 --> 01:08:24.119 on, whether it be movies or movie stars or memes 01:08:24.119 --> 01:08:28.250 online or Reddit forums or social media. or whatever 01:08:28.250 --> 01:08:31.109 the case may be. You can change people's opinion 01:08:31.109 --> 01:08:32.989 and guide them to a certain fact. And if they 01:08:32.989 --> 01:08:35.109 didn't start out A, how do we get them to Z to 01:08:35.109 --> 01:08:37.029 make them believe this way or do this thing? 01:08:37.090 --> 01:08:39.750 So I think a lot of it continues. And you talked 01:08:39.750 --> 01:08:43.590 a little bit about how MK search really wasn't 01:08:43.590 --> 01:08:45.989 the end. As we talked about MK Ultra ran from 01:08:45.989 --> 01:08:50.130 1953 to about 63 or 64, then it was terminated. 01:08:50.250 --> 01:08:52.270 But what the fine print says is a lot of work 01:08:52.270 --> 01:08:54.829 simply moved into a follow -on program called 01:08:54.829 --> 01:08:58.189 MK search. And later, CI correspondence and hearings, 01:08:58.409 --> 01:09:00.949 MK search is explicitly described as a project 01:09:00.949 --> 01:09:03.750 that funded the non terminated portion of MK 01:09:03.750 --> 01:09:06.390 ultra activities. So I think we can see that 01:09:06.390 --> 01:09:08.310 even though all this horrific stuff was uncovered, 01:09:08.630 --> 01:09:10.649 components of this experimentation continued. 01:09:10.689 --> 01:09:13.090 And I think we still see it today. As you said, 01:09:13.229 --> 01:09:15.430 I was going to say Charlie Kirk earlier. I forgot 01:09:15.430 --> 01:09:17.350 his name for a brief moment, but that's who I 01:09:17.350 --> 01:09:19.050 was talking about in the earlier conversation. 01:09:19.149 --> 01:09:21.430 A lot of people think he's tied up to this and 01:09:21.430 --> 01:09:24.010 they don't quite understand why some kid like 01:09:24.010 --> 01:09:26.279 him would sassinate this guy in a public. for 01:09:26.279 --> 01:09:28.140 him knowing that he's going to be caught. As 01:09:28.140 --> 01:09:30.500 he drops down from the building, somebody's been 01:09:30.500 --> 01:09:32.680 very trained for this, being able to jump off 01:09:32.680 --> 01:09:34.579 a building and not get hurt and all that stuff 01:09:34.579 --> 01:09:36.640 and getting the gun by at his age with, again, 01:09:36.659 --> 01:09:38.699 no training. People call that into question. 01:09:38.840 --> 01:09:40.500 I find it interesting. I don't know if I believe 01:09:40.500 --> 01:09:43.239 in that theory or not. I think he was taken up 01:09:43.239 --> 01:09:45.199 for his trans girlfriend and he thought he was 01:09:45.199 --> 01:09:47.380 doing some justice by her, but there is a lot 01:09:47.380 --> 01:09:49.079 of weird facts about that story. I don't know 01:09:49.079 --> 01:09:50.920 what to think about that story. I always, the 01:09:50.920 --> 01:09:54.159 more I live my life, the more I see just the 01:09:54.159 --> 01:09:56.020 weird, bizarre stuff. that happens out there 01:09:56.020 --> 01:09:58.100 in this world. I always feel like there's a Patsy. 01:09:58.199 --> 01:10:00.560 It's the guy that to a certain extent, he agrees 01:10:00.560 --> 01:10:03.000 to be a part of the quote unquote operation. 01:10:03.220 --> 01:10:05.680 This isn't specific to the Kirk thing. This is 01:10:05.680 --> 01:10:08.600 just in general with all these high profile type 01:10:08.600 --> 01:10:11.520 of assassinations or high profile, high impact 01:10:11.520 --> 01:10:14.939 events that there's a group of people and one 01:10:14.939 --> 01:10:18.100 unwitting, unlucky guy is the guy who doesn't 01:10:18.100 --> 01:10:20.100 know it, but he's the guy to take the fall. So 01:10:20.100 --> 01:10:22.100 though he may have been on that roof with a gun, 01:10:22.199 --> 01:10:24.359 it doesn't mean necessarily he's the one that 01:10:24.239 --> 01:10:26.560 that took the shot. Again, I don't really know. 01:10:26.779 --> 01:10:29.520 I try not to pay a lot of attention to it. Part 01:10:29.520 --> 01:10:31.720 of it, I think, is a little bit of a distraction 01:10:31.720 --> 01:10:34.779 from stuff that's going on, because that whole 01:10:34.779 --> 01:10:37.600 thing is grown legs and is taking a walk on its 01:10:37.600 --> 01:10:39.359 own. But I kind of want to circle back to the 01:10:39.359 --> 01:10:41.199 whole marijuana thing too. Like the marijuana 01:10:41.199 --> 01:10:45.500 back in the 50s, 60s, 70s was rather low THC 01:10:45.500 --> 01:10:47.460 content. The marijuana they're creating today 01:10:47.460 --> 01:10:50.659 genetically has an astronomical amount of THC 01:10:50.659 --> 01:10:52.979 compared to the stuff that was naturally occurring 01:10:52.979 --> 01:10:55.630 in Earth. and high enough doses THC can be a 01:10:55.630 --> 01:10:58.369 psychedelic and cause psychotic and schizophrenic 01:10:58.369 --> 01:11:01.090 type behavior in individuals. Just looking at 01:11:01.090 --> 01:11:04.750 the data, if you're prone to psychotic induced 01:11:04.750 --> 01:11:09.170 THC, or if you're prone to being psychotic, you 01:11:09.170 --> 01:11:11.510 will have a seven -fold increase of actually 01:11:11.510 --> 01:11:13.750 triggering a psychotic break if you ingest too 01:11:13.750 --> 01:11:16.449 much THC over a long period of time. And if you're 01:11:16.449 --> 01:11:18.989 not prone to having psychotic breaks or prone 01:11:18.989 --> 01:11:21.250 to psychosis, you have a four -fold increase 01:11:21.250 --> 01:11:24.050 to experiencing a psychotic. episode. So right 01:11:24.050 --> 01:11:27.130 there in and of itself is a scary statistic with 01:11:27.130 --> 01:11:30.369 all these drugs being streamlined and mainlined. 01:11:30.390 --> 01:11:33.489 And now the whole psychedelic thing is quickly 01:11:33.489 --> 01:11:36.090 falling in the same footsteps. It makes me wonder 01:11:36.090 --> 01:11:38.770 how many of us are MK altering ourselves. You 01:11:38.770 --> 01:11:40.829 take these drugs, there was even studies testing 01:11:40.829 --> 01:11:43.350 the water supply and there's small amounts of 01:11:43.350 --> 01:11:45.489 SSRIs in the water. So if you drink water out 01:11:45.489 --> 01:11:48.010 of your faucet, or if you're drinking heck water 01:11:48.010 --> 01:11:49.970 even out of your filter, you're getting micro 01:11:49.970 --> 01:11:52.640 doses of SSRIs like it or not. in most areas, 01:11:52.939 --> 01:11:55.079 especially big metropolitan areas. So I wonder 01:11:55.079 --> 01:11:58.119 with the combination of social media, the media, 01:11:58.199 --> 01:12:01.039 and everything else you interact with in your 01:12:01.039 --> 01:12:03.060 daily life that revolves around the computer 01:12:03.060 --> 01:12:05.520 or your television screen, how many of us are 01:12:05.520 --> 01:12:08.340 actually being programmed slowly over time and 01:12:08.340 --> 01:12:10.640 don't even realize it. I feel like this world 01:12:10.640 --> 01:12:13.380 is more divided today than it was 50 years ago, 01:12:13.380 --> 01:12:15.180 60 years ago. Heck, even when we were growing 01:12:15.180 --> 01:12:17.199 up, the world didn't seem this divided. And I 01:12:17.199 --> 01:12:21.039 wonder how much of it is driven by the algorithm. 01:12:21.100 --> 01:12:24.439 by AI and you've seen plenty of newscasts, plenty 01:12:24.439 --> 01:12:27.380 of videos that compare the newscasts and the 01:12:27.380 --> 01:12:31.220 news anchors literally verbatim recite the same 01:12:31.220 --> 01:12:34.239 script regarding certain events and certain topics. 01:12:34.460 --> 01:12:37.359 So you have that repetition. You have people 01:12:37.359 --> 01:12:39.979 that are either intentionally smoking marijuana 01:12:39.979 --> 01:12:42.380 or intentionally taking psychedelics that are 01:12:42.380 --> 01:12:44.979 making their brains more suggestible. And then 01:12:44.979 --> 01:12:48.079 people that are on SSRIs willingly, and then 01:12:48.079 --> 01:12:51.579 people drinking or taking microdoses. of SSRIs 01:12:51.579 --> 01:12:54.199 through the water because they choose or don't 01:12:54.199 --> 01:12:56.760 need these other chemicals in their lives. So 01:12:56.760 --> 01:12:59.600 part of me thinks that we are MKL -turing ourselves 01:12:59.600 --> 01:13:01.680 to a certain extent, at least the vast majority 01:13:01.680 --> 01:13:04.220 of the population is, especially with this tribalistic 01:13:04.220 --> 01:13:06.640 nature that we've devolved into over the past 01:13:06.640 --> 01:13:10.239 20 years. Yeah. It's people, they go after the 01:13:10.239 --> 01:13:12.840 pharmaceutical option rather than nature. I deal 01:13:12.840 --> 01:13:15.520 with anxiety quite a bit. And one of the ways 01:13:15.520 --> 01:13:17.880 I essentially cured it was I realized that I 01:13:17.880 --> 01:13:20.130 was deficient in magnesium. I started taking 01:13:20.130 --> 01:13:22.689 magnesium instead of taking the drugs the doctors 01:13:22.689 --> 01:13:24.369 wanted to sell me. And it did a world of good 01:13:24.369 --> 01:13:27.289 for me. And a lot of these deficiencies in diet 01:13:27.289 --> 01:13:30.770 that we see today can be linked to deficiencies 01:13:30.770 --> 01:13:32.750 and not to go off topic here, but I just found 01:13:32.750 --> 01:13:34.890 it fascinating because I just recently started 01:13:34.890 --> 01:13:37.270 taking magnesium supplement. And I found out 01:13:37.270 --> 01:13:39.649 because I'm allergic to gluten, your body does 01:13:39.649 --> 01:13:42.189 not produce magnesium very well. And most people 01:13:42.189 --> 01:13:45.170 that have celiac disease are deficient in magnesium. 01:13:45.289 --> 01:13:47.270 Like they just can't gain enough through their 01:13:47.270 --> 01:13:50.229 diet. I basically cured my anxiety by taking 01:13:50.229 --> 01:13:52.930 magnesium and it's just exciting. So I'm just 01:13:52.930 --> 01:13:54.369 throwing it out there. If you have anxiety, maybe 01:13:54.369 --> 01:13:56.310 you should try magnesium. It might be helpful, 01:13:56.310 --> 01:13:58.590 but to get back to it, I think as you scroll 01:13:58.590 --> 01:14:00.569 through certain corners of the internet, you 01:14:00.569 --> 01:14:03.029 do see people dissecting music videos, fashion 01:14:03.029 --> 01:14:05.670 shoots, award shows, pointing out butterflies, 01:14:05.949 --> 01:14:08.329 checkerboard floors, broken dolls, one eye imagery 01:14:08.329 --> 01:14:11.050 and cages. Now to most viewers, it's just edgy 01:14:11.050 --> 01:14:13.750 or art direction. But to MK Ultra, conspiracy 01:14:13.750 --> 01:14:16.489 fans. vocabulary of symbols linked to monarch 01:14:16.489 --> 01:14:19.529 style programming. In this theory, some celebrities 01:14:19.529 --> 01:14:21.430 aren't just entertainers, they're programmed 01:14:21.430 --> 01:14:24.430 assets with handlers, managers, doctors, and 01:14:24.430 --> 01:14:26.710 security people whose real job is to monitor 01:14:26.710 --> 01:14:29.270 and maintain the conditioning. Public breakdowns, 01:14:29.350 --> 01:14:32.050 sudden rehab visits, bizarre interviews, or blank 01:14:32.050 --> 01:14:35.390 stares on camera are labeled as glitches or deprogramming 01:14:35.390 --> 01:14:37.630 attempts. And when an artist complains about 01:14:37.630 --> 01:14:40.130 not controlling their own image or music, it's 01:14:40.130 --> 01:14:42.369 read not just as a business dispute, but as a 01:14:42.369 --> 01:14:45.090 hint that they're under deeper control. Thank 01:14:45.090 --> 01:14:48.050 Britney Spears here. The version of MK Ultra 01:14:48.050 --> 01:14:50.369 turns the entertainment industry into this kind 01:14:50.369 --> 01:14:53.010 of psychological theater. The ideal that the 01:14:53.010 --> 01:14:55.949 same symbols used to trigger or reinforce programming 01:14:55.949 --> 01:14:58.350 inside the subjects are pushed out to the public 01:14:58.350 --> 01:15:00.770 as well. Conditioning the audience is a lighter 01:15:00.770 --> 01:15:03.569 level. The line between this is a music video 01:15:03.569 --> 01:15:06.029 and this is a ritualized message blurs those 01:15:06.029 --> 01:15:08.270 lines together. And even if you don't buy it, 01:15:08.270 --> 01:15:11.250 it changes how you look at a constant stream 01:15:11.250 --> 01:15:14.420 of curated images where all soaking in or everybody's, 01:15:14.520 --> 01:15:16.020 I love this song. And I'm like, have you ever 01:15:16.020 --> 01:15:18.479 listened to the lyrics? Like they're awful. You 01:15:18.479 --> 01:15:20.199 probably shouldn't be playing that, but people 01:15:20.199 --> 01:15:23.000 eat into it. And I think if you talk about shooting 01:15:23.000 --> 01:15:25.079 your friends down the street in a cool rap video, 01:15:25.340 --> 01:15:26.960 eventually, maybe you might think that's okay. 01:15:27.159 --> 01:15:28.800 Yeah. I think it goes back to the repetition. 01:15:29.100 --> 01:15:31.300 Like you are what you think. And if you listen 01:15:31.300 --> 01:15:33.640 like they study them in K -Ultra, it's like a 01:15:33.640 --> 01:15:36.180 driving. It's the same message repeated over 01:15:36.180 --> 01:15:37.899 and over again. And you know how it is. Like 01:15:37.899 --> 01:15:39.539 you'll listen to a podcast, you'll listen to 01:15:39.539 --> 01:15:41.439 music when you're working out or taking a walk 01:15:41.439 --> 01:15:43.960 or just chilling. and you trans out. You go into 01:15:43.960 --> 01:15:46.260 the theta wave state and children spend a ton 01:15:46.260 --> 01:15:48.739 of time in the theta wave state. below the age 01:15:48.739 --> 01:15:50.840 of seven. That's why they're able to learn so 01:15:50.840 --> 01:15:52.859 much more efficiently than we are. Their brains 01:15:52.859 --> 01:15:55.260 are more pliable. But as adults, you don't go 01:15:55.260 --> 01:15:58.699 into Theta as often as a child does. But when 01:15:58.699 --> 01:16:01.380 you're tranced out, you've done it before you're 01:16:01.380 --> 01:16:04.079 driving and you're like, wow, I traveled 15 miles 01:16:04.079 --> 01:16:06.100 when I feel like I've maybe only should have 01:16:06.100 --> 01:16:08.060 traveled two. That's a trance. But when you're 01:16:08.060 --> 01:16:10.159 listening to something, listening to a message 01:16:10.159 --> 01:16:11.840 and maybe in different words, depending on the 01:16:11.840 --> 01:16:13.779 music you're listening to. But when you boil 01:16:13.779 --> 01:16:17.180 the message down, violence. money, fame, power, 01:16:17.359 --> 01:16:20.060 whatever, is starting to ingrain in your psyche. 01:16:20.260 --> 01:16:22.739 And then as deeper it gets ingrained, the more 01:16:22.739 --> 01:16:25.340 it's going to affect over time and it's going 01:16:25.340 --> 01:16:28.640 to affect how you react because, you know, you've 01:16:28.640 --> 01:16:31.199 been mad before, you've reacted in a way that's 01:16:31.199 --> 01:16:34.340 not cool and everyone does it. But sometimes 01:16:34.340 --> 01:16:37.420 I think those messages build that reaction pattern 01:16:37.420 --> 01:16:39.840 deep down inside. So when you become in a heightened 01:16:39.840 --> 01:16:42.300 emotional state, your reaction is already pre 01:16:42.300 --> 01:16:44.439 -programmed instead of stepping back, observing 01:16:44.439 --> 01:16:47.210 the situation. and then responding versus reacting. 01:16:47.569 --> 01:16:50.270 So I think it's interesting that this music is 01:16:50.270 --> 01:16:52.829 geared toward younger people. So I think it's 01:16:52.829 --> 01:16:56.489 taking into account that the younger you are, 01:16:56.630 --> 01:16:59.369 the more that this programming may take root 01:16:59.369 --> 01:17:02.250 into your psyche and the people, the powers that 01:17:02.250 --> 01:17:05.649 be can manifest program and trigger those reactions 01:17:05.649 --> 01:17:09.850 in somebody who is sub 25. Your prefrontal cortex 01:17:09.850 --> 01:17:12.670 doesn't fully develop until you're 25 years old. 01:17:12.710 --> 01:17:15.100 I just find it pretty convenient. that most of 01:17:15.100 --> 01:17:18.439 this media that we consume is really geared toward 01:17:18.439 --> 01:17:20.800 those 25 years and younger. Yeah, a hundred percent, 01:17:20.939 --> 01:17:23.239 man. I think whenever you have drugs, money, 01:17:23.319 --> 01:17:25.859 and people willing to do ugly things for it, 01:17:26.020 --> 01:17:28.340 you are leading towards a culture of shit. And 01:17:28.340 --> 01:17:30.199 if it's government sanction, it's even worse 01:17:30.199 --> 01:17:31.859 because they can get away with it and not get 01:17:31.859 --> 01:17:33.979 prosecuted. Yeah. It's almost people are trying 01:17:33.979 --> 01:17:36.739 to drive towards a great reset. Yeah. So I think 01:17:36.739 --> 01:17:38.680 this is where we pose the question. What do you 01:17:38.680 --> 01:17:41.720 make of all of this? It's a good question. Obviously 01:17:41.720 --> 01:17:44.319 MK Ultra is real. I think it's... very evil. 01:17:44.560 --> 01:17:46.539 I think it's been proven that it's very evil. 01:17:46.640 --> 01:17:50.119 And I don't think it stopped in the 60s or 70s. 01:17:50.119 --> 01:17:52.119 I don't think it ended with MK search. I think 01:17:52.119 --> 01:17:54.880 it goes on today in our society in the United 01:17:54.880 --> 01:17:58.000 States and across many societies across the globe. 01:17:58.220 --> 01:18:00.479 Hopefully in the United States, we have some 01:18:00.479 --> 01:18:02.939 constraint, like we've learned some lessons and 01:18:02.939 --> 01:18:04.899 after violating the new murder laws, different 01:18:04.899 --> 01:18:06.640 things. So hopefully we learn some lessons and 01:18:06.640 --> 01:18:10.039 it's not as bad. But what I can say is that post 01:18:10.039 --> 01:18:12.399 -World War II, we really saw the moral decline 01:18:12.399 --> 01:18:14.680 of our society here in the United States. And 01:18:14.680 --> 01:18:18.300 these bad values are being pushed out and into 01:18:18.300 --> 01:18:21.300 mainline narratives. I worry about the future 01:18:21.300 --> 01:18:23.439 that my kids, what country are they growing up 01:18:23.439 --> 01:18:26.180 in? I worry about that and getting somebody into 01:18:26.180 --> 01:18:28.039 office that are going to make the right decisions. 01:18:28.060 --> 01:18:30.260 I don't even know if that's a possibility anymore. 01:18:30.279 --> 01:18:32.800 It just seems to people get more extreme and 01:18:32.800 --> 01:18:35.699 willing to take more risk and more chances. If 01:18:35.699 --> 01:18:38.859 we don't end with a boom with World War III, 01:18:39.180 --> 01:18:41.760 perhaps we just stutter out. We've seen great 01:18:41.760 --> 01:18:43.449 society. societies fall before. It really is 01:18:43.449 --> 01:18:45.930 great in terms of conquering like the Roman Empire 01:18:45.930 --> 01:18:48.949 among many that have fallen when they seemingly 01:18:48.949 --> 01:18:53.050 seemed impossible for them to fall. I think MKUltra 01:18:53.050 --> 01:18:55.069 started it, but again, I don't think it ended 01:18:55.069 --> 01:18:58.109 there. I think it's highly evil. I think it's 01:18:58.109 --> 01:19:00.850 demonic. I think there's just so much badness 01:19:00.850 --> 01:19:03.550 about this, Jay. I'm almost lost for words. And 01:19:03.550 --> 01:19:06.329 not only when we talk about the 60s and 70s and 01:19:06.329 --> 01:19:08.869 the moral degradation of our country. Back then 01:19:08.869 --> 01:19:11.449 it was experimentation. A lot of people weren't 01:19:11.449 --> 01:19:13.869 doing the same drugs. Now people take it willingly. 01:19:14.109 --> 01:19:16.229 Let me just sign up for this. If somebody said, 01:19:16.229 --> 01:19:18.210 I'm going to stand out on a street corner and 01:19:18.210 --> 01:19:20.430 hand out LSD and you can get it every day for 01:19:20.430 --> 01:19:22.649 free. If you're somewhere in California or wherever, 01:19:22.750 --> 01:19:24.550 there's probably going to be a long line of people 01:19:24.550 --> 01:19:26.149 that are going to be waiting for their handout 01:19:26.149 --> 01:19:28.909 of daily LSD. People are just willing. It's almost 01:19:28.909 --> 01:19:31.090 like they're brainwashed to think that drugs 01:19:31.090 --> 01:19:33.170 are cool, that alcohol is cool, that all these 01:19:33.170 --> 01:19:35.289 things are really cool to do and they're fun. 01:19:35.350 --> 01:19:36.909 And that's the only way I'm going to have fun. 01:19:36.989 --> 01:19:38.569 And I'm not sure what that next step is going 01:19:38.569 --> 01:19:41.020 to look like, but it's all bad. man. It's all 01:19:41.020 --> 01:19:43.220 bad. Yeah, man. I agree. We used to live in a 01:19:43.220 --> 01:19:46.220 culture where if you took drugs, you were shunned. 01:19:46.239 --> 01:19:48.920 And now modern day culture, you're almost shunned. 01:19:49.020 --> 01:19:51.140 If you think taking drugs is bad, it's scary. 01:19:51.279 --> 01:19:53.979 Like you said, people will line up around the 01:19:53.979 --> 01:19:57.119 street, heck sell their souls literally and figuratively 01:19:57.119 --> 01:20:00.840 to get high. And it scares me because marijuana. 01:20:01.289 --> 01:20:04.109 and its derivatives become mainstream. You can 01:20:04.109 --> 01:20:05.989 pretty much get it wherever you want without 01:20:05.989 --> 01:20:08.250 having to go into a back alley and hand some 01:20:08.250 --> 01:20:10.930 sketchy guy 20 bucks for a bag of marijuana. 01:20:11.029 --> 01:20:12.729 You can go into a store now and buy drinks that 01:20:12.729 --> 01:20:15.670 have it in it. And now it seems to be in popular 01:20:15.670 --> 01:20:20.189 culture via Joe Rogan and a bunch of famous people 01:20:20.189 --> 01:20:23.529 championing the use of psychedelics to expand 01:20:23.529 --> 01:20:26.569 your mind and make your mind more neuroplastic 01:20:26.569 --> 01:20:31.210 and awaken your... third eye or whatever BS they're 01:20:31.210 --> 01:20:33.489 trying to sell. I think we know, and it's the 01:20:33.489 --> 01:20:36.090 government even admits it, MKUltra was a real 01:20:36.090 --> 01:20:39.170 program. They very clearly stated their goals 01:20:39.170 --> 01:20:42.489 as a true serum, a way to erase memories, a way 01:20:42.489 --> 01:20:46.109 to instill second, third, fourth personality 01:20:46.109 --> 01:20:49.250 types in the people. And those 12 ,000 documents 01:20:49.250 --> 01:20:52.130 that were destroyed, I think they were probably 01:20:52.130 --> 01:20:55.430 more than likely sold off to big corporations. 01:20:55.659 --> 01:20:59.579 big media, big pharma. And I think you're seeing 01:20:59.579 --> 01:21:04.000 the natural after -effects today where again, 01:21:04.180 --> 01:21:06.840 drug culture has become normalized, social media 01:21:06.840 --> 01:21:09.960 has become normalized. I think you see the hypnotic 01:21:09.960 --> 01:21:13.119 patterns in music and television in these social 01:21:13.119 --> 01:21:17.479 media apps and in tandem with drug use, SSRI 01:21:17.479 --> 01:21:20.279 use that is both intentional and unintentional. 01:21:20.579 --> 01:21:22.779 I think most people in K -Ultra themselves now, 01:21:22.819 --> 01:21:25.939 and I'm a little bit concerned as to what research 01:21:25.939 --> 01:21:27.560 they're doing now because there's still programs 01:21:27.560 --> 01:21:31.159 going on that are not declassified. And I wonder 01:21:31.159 --> 01:21:33.659 what other ways they're coming up with to manipulate 01:21:33.659 --> 01:21:36.399 the populace. We look at conspiracy through a 01:21:36.399 --> 01:21:39.100 biblical lens and it seems like stuff is starting 01:21:39.100 --> 01:21:41.659 to line up with biblical end times. They talk 01:21:41.659 --> 01:21:43.899 about the use of pharmacia and how it's normalized. 01:21:43.939 --> 01:21:45.739 It's pretty much normalized across the world. 01:21:45.819 --> 01:21:49.359 And I often wonder in the end times where people, 01:21:49.439 --> 01:21:51.479 there's a mass falling away from the faith, the 01:21:51.479 --> 01:21:54.460 Christian faith and people worshiping the beast. 01:21:54.159 --> 01:21:56.479 the Antichrist, the One World Religion, One World 01:21:56.479 --> 01:21:59.159 Government. How does that happen? It has to be 01:21:59.159 --> 01:22:01.079 something pretty freaking convincing to happen 01:22:01.079 --> 01:22:03.840 to make that whole thing come to fruition. And 01:22:03.840 --> 01:22:07.539 I think we probably see, if not the mid -stage 01:22:07.539 --> 01:22:11.119 outcome as to how that happens with, like we 01:22:11.119 --> 01:22:13.880 stated, the drug use and the constant repetition 01:22:13.880 --> 01:22:17.699 through media to instill a message into your 01:22:17.699 --> 01:22:20.899 psyche and make you highly suggestible to the 01:22:20.899 --> 01:22:23.239 intended outcome. Yeah, it's no longer the drugs. 01:22:23.369 --> 01:22:25.670 It's the algorithm pushing what you should consume 01:22:25.670 --> 01:22:28.090 and what you should believe and all those things. 01:22:28.170 --> 01:22:29.890 Thank you. Guard your hearts. What do you want 01:22:29.890 --> 01:22:32.310 to close with tonight? Yeah, man. Same thing 01:22:32.310 --> 01:22:34.130 I always do. Jesus loves you. We love you. I 01:22:34.130 --> 01:22:36.210 love you, brother. Root yourself in wisdom and 01:22:36.210 --> 01:22:39.170 discernments. Don't believe everything you hear. 01:22:39.789 --> 01:22:42.250 And unfortunately now I have to kind of state 01:22:42.250 --> 01:22:45.659 the. Other part, don't believe everything because 01:22:45.659 --> 01:22:49.500 now you can look at stuff on the TV and there 01:22:49.500 --> 01:22:51.939 is a good chance it may be AI generated. And 01:22:51.939 --> 01:22:54.119 as time progresses forward, that's just going 01:22:54.119 --> 01:22:56.220 to become more and more believable. And they'll 01:22:56.220 --> 01:22:57.979 hit a certain point where you're not going to 01:22:57.979 --> 01:23:00.170 be able to tell if. That thing you're seeing 01:23:00.170 --> 01:23:03.949 on TV is real or if it's fake. Call back to the 01:23:03.949 --> 01:23:06.609 dead internet through our last episode. How much 01:23:06.609 --> 01:23:08.710 more would we believe it if we're all doped up 01:23:08.710 --> 01:23:10.770 on LSD and these different drugs that they're 01:23:10.770 --> 01:23:12.729 pushing today. It would feel even more real. 01:23:12.930 --> 01:23:15.329 But I agree with you, bro. I love you. I think 01:23:15.329 --> 01:23:17.210 it's been a good episode. It's always eye opening. 01:23:17.350 --> 01:23:19.409 People I've never seen stranger things, but I 01:23:19.409 --> 01:23:21.689 think you said talks about MK Ultra or something 01:23:21.689 --> 01:23:24.289 and you just got to have discernment. And when 01:23:24.289 --> 01:23:26.630 you can discern things of a clear mind, body 01:23:26.630 --> 01:23:29.010 and spirit, you can make appropriate. choices, 01:23:29.010 --> 01:23:30.689 and it's going to be important and it's going 01:23:30.689 --> 01:23:33.670 to grow even more important as the days, years, 01:23:33.850 --> 01:23:36.569 and decades go forward. I think the good thing, 01:23:36.569 --> 01:23:38.289 the alert for our audience is that next week, 01:23:38.310 --> 01:23:40.189 our first interview is coming up and we have 01:23:40.189 --> 01:23:42.369 a whole series of interviews going to be right 01:23:42.369 --> 01:23:44.630 on the back end of it. So we have a lot of exciting 01:23:44.630 --> 01:23:46.810 guests lined up. We're excited to talk with them 01:23:46.810 --> 01:23:48.789 and explore their stories and how it connects 01:23:48.789 --> 01:23:51.310 to what we do here at Zero Signal. But yeah, 01:23:51.470 --> 01:23:53.029 we're going to have a ton of fun and had a ton 01:23:53.029 --> 01:23:56.270 of fun with you today, Jay. Love you and we will 01:23:56.270 --> 01:23:58.779 see you next week. Well then, we are Zero Signal. 01:23:59.060 --> 01:23:59.319 We're out.