WEBVTT

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Welcome, everyone, to the Unbox Some Funcast

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here at Games Unlimited in Pittsburgh. This is

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the podcast about being on the front lines of

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the games industry, the tabletop games industry,

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from one of the country's oldest game stores.

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I am your host, Kylie, and if you've been listening

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for a while, you've heard both myself and Chandra

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talking about various aspects of the games industry,

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but we've got a special guest today. Chandra

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is hopefully recovering from an emergency root

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canal. Yeah. So the dulcet tones you're hearing

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are one of our other staff members named Mike.

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Mike, why don't you introduce yourself? Yeah,

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hi, I'm Michael. You talk about the front lines

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of the game store. I always describe myself as

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that. If you are the general and Chandra and

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Dan are your lieutenants, I am the foot soldier

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on the front lines. How often do you get shot

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at? Depends on how we would define it. We keep

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the analogy going. But I'm answering the phone

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and saying, no, we don't have Wii controllers.

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We sell board games. And, you know, I'm on the

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floor talking to customers and I'm unboxing games

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and putting them on the shelf. And then I'm cutting

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up the boxes and taking them out to the trash.

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And I feel like I hit almost every aspect of

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this outside the office work. Do you do much

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shipping? I'm thinking about you boxing up. I

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don't do a lot of shipping. Don't do a lot of

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shipping. Because that's the full. That's the

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full gastrointestinal system, if you think about

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it. The boxes come in, you got to put them on

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the shelf, you cut up the boxes. Fun fact, Mike

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has definitely, of everyone on staff, been shopping

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at Games Unlimited the longest. Yeah. I was in

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high school when I discovered an RPG called Dungeons

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& Dragons. and there were two stores in Pittsburgh

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that sold them. The long -gone Bill and Walt's

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Hobby Shop on Smithfield Street, where I went

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and learned about it. I actually learned about

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it because I had a friend whose brother was in

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the military, and they were just publishing the

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first edition Dungeon Master's Guide. Prior to

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that, and this was early days of photocopying,

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so prior to that, the game was done with something

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called a mimeograph. and they had cranked out

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and that was the only way to get these things

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so they were actually publishing they had done

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the other two books i guess and the dm's guide

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came last and he went to get that for his brother

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and we looked at the stuff and talked to them

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and bought a starter set and this was a hobby

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shop dedicated to model trains yeah and rc airplanes

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and everything and then down in the basement

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they had three guys that were the rpg guys down

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there and uh they were limited and uh we used

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another uh ancient artifact called the yellow

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pages and found out oh there's another store

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that sells this stuff it's in squirrel hill and

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i got my dad to drive me out there and it was

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unlimited this time apparently and yeah yeah

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well games unlimited and then i got into um car

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wars which was another You could do it strictly

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as a board game and use your car to battle the

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other car, or they had scenarios, and you could

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play it as an RPG. And my friends and I did a

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little bit of each, and they used to have a supplementary

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magazine called Auto Duel Quarterly. So I had

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to make sure every quarter that I was back out

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there to get the latest issue of that and just

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got into more and more games. And yeah, it became

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a regular. And then went to school at the University

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of Pittsburgh, so it was much easier to get to.

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to Games Unlimited back then on Murray Avenue.

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So that was late 70s into the early 80s, yeah.

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Yeah, yeah. And talk about games with longevity.

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Both of those games you mentioned are still in

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print. They're still, yeah, still around. Now,

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you also, interesting story, you called something.

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The moment we announced that we were moving to

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a new location, I believe you turned to your

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wife and said something to her. Well, so that

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was during the dark times, during COVID. And

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the deal for the new location was you had to

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schedule an appointment to come into the store.

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I think you were taking like five at a time.

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And I got to be one of the first five. I grabbed

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that first time slot and came in and looked around

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and I said, wow, this is amazing. They are going

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to need more staff. I'm ready to apply for a

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job then. And that would have been in November

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of 2020. We're recording this in April. As of

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May, I will hit my five years of employment here.

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Yeah. Awesome. So it's, yeah, it's been great

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to have you on. I mean, every staff member brings

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a different vibe, a different energy. So this

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is fun. And I'm glad you're here because we're

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going to do something a little bit different

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with this particular podcast. I've mentioned

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in some previous ones that I gave a talk, a seminar

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at Gamma. about a business book called alchemy

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the dark art and curious science of creating

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magic in brands business and life the author

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of that is rory sutherland and uh i decided to

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give a talk about that and applying it to a game

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store and i believe it was very well received

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i'm all about creating magic as you will find

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out a little bit later um and so i decided you

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know what you know it's a it was about a 45 minute

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long seminar guess what our podcasts try to be

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that short And since this year Gamma didn't record

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the seminar, so there's really no way to see

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that, I've decided, why don't I just do it on

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the podcast? And that way people listening have

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access to that information and those ideas. But

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also we get to have some fun. Originally Chandra

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was going to do it with me. He wasn't there for

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the seminar. He has read the book, but he wanted

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to hear what was going on and maybe have some

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back and forth. Now we get Mike, who hasn't even

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read the book as far as I know. No, I have not.

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So this will be... One part seminar, but also

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a little bit of a chance to have Mike be our

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interlocutor here. I am really curious because

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I always joke about it during that week of Gamma.

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I say they're off talking about how to run a

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game store, and they left me behind to run the

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game store while they're doing that. All right,

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so I'm going to jump right in, but Mike, feel

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free. If you have thoughts, you have questions,

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I may actually call on you at certain points

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to do some things. Oh, yeah, I have a million

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thoughts. I'll be holding back for the most part.

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Cool. All right. So as I mentioned, this seminar

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is about a book called Alchemy by Rory Sutherland.

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You don't have to have read the book. I actually

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hadn't read the book a year ago when we won some

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power retailer wars at Gamma. So often the start

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of some of these seminars and things, I've got

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some slides that I'll describe to you. But just

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giving ourselves some bona fides for Games Unlimited.

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You're listening to this. You know that. And

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that last year, we took home two Power Retailer

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Awards, one for most innovative retailer of the

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year. And then we took home an award for just

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retail, overall retailer of the year. And it's

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actually generally encouraged that winners of

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Power Retail Awards do give some sort of seminar

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or talk in the years following. And I wasn't

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actually planning to do that. I've given many,

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many seminars, most of them process seminars.

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how to do used games, you know, how to do things

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like that. Very, very process oriented. And I'd

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kind of gotten burnt out. Do you get an explanation

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that goes with those awards? Like what did you

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do to deserve that award? Yes, yes, yes. So specifically

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the most innovative retailer award, it was because

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of our social media. doing the TikToks and the

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Facebook reels and Instagram and YouTube, the

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things that we have done, which I will talk about

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a little bit later in the seminar, but it was

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for that. Like that is something new. Not a lot

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of game stores were doing. The overall retailer

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of the year, that's just, they decide, the committee

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decides who, you know, they award points to all

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the nominated stores and add those up. Yeah,

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very cool. So, yeah, actually when we won the

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award, I hadn't read the book. And so that's

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an interesting thing because I read this book

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and, It didn't teach me anything. It wasn't instrumental

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in how we run Games Unlimited. So I can't say,

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hey, you want to do what we did, go read this

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book because this is what we did. Yeah, no. It

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was more, this book actually put language to

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a lot of the things we do that I hadn't had.

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For years, I think about, there's a lot of interesting

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things that we do here that I can't quite put

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into words or when I try to put it into words,

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people don't quite understand. So I... was thinking

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that I could actually share that, share that

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this is more of a background philosophy, a 30

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,000 -foot view. This is not a seminar about

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do X to do Y, and this is exactly how we do it.

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And that was exciting for me because actually

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going into Gamma this year, I mentioned on the

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previous podcast, I was feeling burnt out. I

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didn't think people actually had listened to

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many of my seminars and implemented them. And

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I had so many people coming up to us this year

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saying, yes, they're doing used games the way

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we're doing it. They're using RPGs the way we

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do it. That's really great. Yeah, I think a lot

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of what you do, I just credit to your intuition.

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But I know just as an observer, I was a bit from

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the outside, you do have Chandra and Dan, your

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managers, who sometimes take you out of your

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comfort zone and say, we need to do this. And

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you say, no, no, no. And they go, no, trust me,

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this will work. So, yeah, it's also your intuition

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of knowing when to trust what other people are

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saying to go there. And I don't know how much

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of it you're even conscious of, but there's a

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hive mind working here. Oh, I'm actually very

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conscious of it, and it's going to come up a

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little bit later, specifically around you. Foreshadowing.

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So the next slide says small retailers have an

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advantage. We optimize for psychology instead

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of efficiency. And this was the big thing that

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I kind of want to drive home. A lot of times

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we're trying to think like we're big retail stores.

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We're trying to think like big box stores because

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we feel like we're in competition with that.

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My biggest competitors are Amazon and Target

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and people going and doing those things. But

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big companies have to justify decisions with

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spreadsheets. They have to show the logical,

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if we're going to do X, this is the expected

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return on that, and this is how it's going to

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work. Because we're all small retailers, and

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every game store retailer is a small business.

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I mean, I know stores that do multiple million

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dollars a year. I know stores that have franchises

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in multiple stores. But I believe the U .S. government's

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definition of a small business is 200 or less

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employees. And I do not know any game store that's

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even close to that. So we're small. We're small

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and we're scrappy and we get to test ideas that

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feel irrational at times. And, you know, the

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real point is that alchemy, we think of alchemy

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historically, medievally as how can I turn lead

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into gold? But real alchemy is not turning lead

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into gold. It's turning perception into value.

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We here at Games Unlimited. We sell games at

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full MSRP. It doesn't make sense. Why would people,

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they could easily click a couple buttons and

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buy games cheaper. But there's something about

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how they're perceiving us and what they do that

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make it valuable enough to spend that extra money.

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And that's the real alchemy. So jumping on from

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here, I jump to a slide. Rory Sutherland, the

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author of the book, has 11 rules of alchemy.

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I'm not going to go through all 11 of them. But

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I highlight five of them. And Mike, if you can

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read those. Yeah. Read the five that I've highlighted.

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So the opposite of a good idea can also be a

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good idea. I like that one. The nature of our

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attention affects the nature of our experience.

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A flower is simply a weed with an advertising

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budget. That's my favorite. Okay. The problem

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with logic is that it kills off magic. Boy, I

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can relate to that. Test counterintuitive things

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only because no one else will. Excellent. Excellent.

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Yeah. You got a nice voice for radio, Mike. Mike's

00:12:30.700 --> 00:12:34.600
also a bit of a thespian. Just recently watched

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him in a production of A Midsummer Night's Dream

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-ish. Adjacent, yeah. Yeah, Brawling Bard Theater.

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We do an homage to Shakespeare with very little

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Shakespeare in it. but uh yes i've had a little

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bit of uh voice training too so you might be

00:12:51.379 --> 00:12:53.379
careful the podcast looks about to bring that

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mic guy back yeah hey there we go there we go

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so yeah so those are five email kylie five of

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the rules uh that i'm going to be focusing on

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and the first one uh is the opposite of a good

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idea can also be a good idea and sutherland this

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is kind of sutherland's magnum opus the thing

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he drives home so much and if you've ever maybe

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seen him seen a video of him or something he's

00:13:19.100 --> 00:13:22.620
often talking about red bull the example of red

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bull we all probably know what red bull is um

00:13:24.740 --> 00:13:28.460
strange little pseudo energy drink comes in a

00:13:28.460 --> 00:13:31.539
weird shaped small can is really expensive and

00:13:31.539 --> 00:13:35.340
doesn't taste very good and all of that is intentional

00:13:35.340 --> 00:13:39.639
so literally the the the higher -ups at red bull

00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:42.899
at the company that makes red bull decided they

00:13:42.899 --> 00:13:46.190
wanted to try to capture uh the second most market

00:13:46.190 --> 00:13:48.789
share of the soft drink thing can't beat coca

00:13:48.789 --> 00:13:50.389
-cola i don't remember if it's coke or pepsi

00:13:50.389 --> 00:13:52.370
that's number one but it's like can we get to

00:13:52.370 --> 00:13:54.429
the second one and you would think well we got

00:13:54.429 --> 00:13:55.850
to make something cheaper we got to make something

00:13:55.850 --> 00:13:58.210
better and they went exactly in the opposite

00:13:58.210 --> 00:14:01.250
direction what if we made a drink that tastes

00:14:01.250 --> 00:14:04.889
worse than anything out there except maybe moxie

00:14:04.889 --> 00:14:09.570
if you know what that is um and costs more that

00:14:09.570 --> 00:14:13.519
seems like a really bad idea But guess what?

00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:16.100
Red Bull has the second most market share of

00:14:16.100 --> 00:14:21.220
soft drinks. And we can post hoc rationalize.

00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:23.679
I mean, they definitely like pre hoc rationalize.

00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:25.080
Oh, maybe it'll be because of this. Let's try

00:14:25.080 --> 00:14:27.159
it. Let's try it. Let's try it. But at the end

00:14:27.159 --> 00:14:30.000
of the day, why it works doesn't matter. That's

00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:31.820
the magic of it. That's the alchemy of it. It

00:14:31.820 --> 00:14:35.360
works. And it works based on something that doesn't

00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:38.799
make any sense whatsoever. It seems like the

00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:42.179
opposite of a good idea. Got a little slide up

00:14:42.179 --> 00:14:44.320
here. It's a simple Cartesian coordinate graph,

00:14:44.460 --> 00:14:47.039
XY graph. Sorry, that's the philosopher in me

00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:52.539
coming. XY graph. And the X line, actually, I

00:14:52.539 --> 00:14:54.820
forget which one. X is horizontal. X is the horizontal

00:14:54.820 --> 00:15:02.340
axis. So the X line is something being a bad

00:15:02.340 --> 00:15:06.220
idea all the way to the right of being a good

00:15:06.220 --> 00:15:09.789
idea. And then the Y axis up and down, down at

00:15:09.789 --> 00:15:13.070
the bottom is an idea that fails. And at the

00:15:13.070 --> 00:15:16.309
top is an idea that is successful. So if you

00:15:16.309 --> 00:15:18.470
can visualize this, you've got these four quadrants.

00:15:18.610 --> 00:15:21.970
Now, most things that businesses do are in the

00:15:21.970 --> 00:15:25.470
upper right quadrant. That is, it's a good idea

00:15:25.470 --> 00:15:29.629
and it has been successful. Those are safe ideas.

00:15:29.750 --> 00:15:32.330
I call that the safe zone. Yeah, it seems like

00:15:32.330 --> 00:15:33.870
it would make sense. Let's try it. Good. We made

00:15:33.870 --> 00:15:37.940
money. It was successful. There are ideas that

00:15:37.940 --> 00:15:41.220
seem like a good idea on paper and you implement

00:15:41.220 --> 00:15:44.059
it and they fail. So that's below the safe zone

00:15:44.059 --> 00:15:46.860
that I call the do better zone. We tried it,

00:15:46.879 --> 00:15:49.919
you know, it was safe, but it didn't work. Okay,

00:15:49.980 --> 00:15:53.139
we'll pivot to something else. So most people

00:15:53.139 --> 00:15:55.679
are not, they don't have difficulty trying out

00:15:55.679 --> 00:15:58.279
ideas that seem like good ideas. Yeah. And I

00:15:58.279 --> 00:16:01.080
can think of a dozen examples of both of those

00:16:01.080 --> 00:16:03.970
things. Yeah. Yeah. It's very, very common. Now,

00:16:04.029 --> 00:16:07.509
we usually don't see things on the side of the

00:16:07.509 --> 00:16:09.769
x -axis that's the bad idea, because why doesn't

00:16:09.769 --> 00:16:12.570
anyone try a bad idea? And in particular, that's

00:16:12.570 --> 00:16:15.529
because if you try a bad idea and it's not successful,

00:16:15.769 --> 00:16:19.450
that's what I call the danger zone. That's the

00:16:19.450 --> 00:16:22.429
zone where you get fired. Yeah. Right? Like,

00:16:22.509 --> 00:16:24.750
this doesn't seem like it would work. Are you

00:16:24.750 --> 00:16:27.090
sure you want to try that? And if you can convince

00:16:27.090 --> 00:16:30.009
your bosses or whatever to let you try it? and

00:16:30.009 --> 00:16:32.470
it fails and you lose money on it, at best you're

00:16:32.470 --> 00:16:34.549
on notice and at worst maybe you're gone. So

00:16:34.549 --> 00:16:37.029
people don't even bring up these ideas. Yeah,

00:16:37.049 --> 00:16:40.230
then you're the dummy and any future good ideas

00:16:40.230 --> 00:16:42.429
you have don't get listened to because you have

00:16:42.429 --> 00:16:45.309
a history of failure. Yeah, stupid. So people

00:16:45.309 --> 00:16:47.610
don't even think outside the box. This is the

00:16:47.610 --> 00:16:49.110
thing we've been trained to do. We just don't

00:16:49.110 --> 00:16:52.710
even think about the weird bad ideas. But there

00:16:52.710 --> 00:16:55.830
is this zone called the alchemy zone where it

00:16:55.830 --> 00:17:00.159
was a bad idea, but it was successful. And the

00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:01.960
whole point of alchemy and the whole point of

00:17:01.960 --> 00:17:04.140
what I'm trying to get you to think about is

00:17:04.140 --> 00:17:08.220
what can you do in that zone? There's a lot of

00:17:08.220 --> 00:17:10.880
magic that happens in that zone if you're willing

00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:16.859
to test out bad ideas like Red Bull did. So I'm

00:17:16.859 --> 00:17:19.319
going to give you an example of our big alchemical

00:17:19.319 --> 00:17:22.640
moment. Our big alchemical moment was a few years

00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:26.200
ago. If you had asked me, say four years ago,

00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:30.950
if... We should be spending, me in particular,

00:17:31.009 --> 00:17:34.549
I spend probably a good 30 % of my work time

00:17:34.549 --> 00:17:38.950
doing social media and pushing e -commerce, trying

00:17:38.950 --> 00:17:41.650
to drive e -commerce. If you'd asked me that

00:17:41.650 --> 00:17:44.730
four years ago, that seems like a bad thing.

00:17:45.529 --> 00:17:47.769
It takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of time.

00:17:47.869 --> 00:17:50.410
And for what return would be the real question?

00:17:51.970 --> 00:17:55.190
There's a lot of assumptions we make about e

00:17:55.190 --> 00:17:58.690
-commerce. One. Social media, the way it is in

00:17:58.690 --> 00:18:01.349
its current form, is not really local. It's very

00:18:01.349 --> 00:18:03.569
hard to say, I want videos to only show up to

00:18:03.569 --> 00:18:05.190
people in Pittsburgh to come into my store and

00:18:05.190 --> 00:18:07.309
pick it up. They're going to go worldwide. And

00:18:07.309 --> 00:18:08.930
if things go viral, it's going to go everywhere.

00:18:09.829 --> 00:18:12.569
And so what's the point of that? Because people

00:18:12.569 --> 00:18:16.009
will just buy your stuff elsewhere. Like, oh,

00:18:16.049 --> 00:18:17.490
they see a cool video of you talking about a

00:18:17.490 --> 00:18:19.289
game. Well, let's go to Amazon. Let's go to some

00:18:19.289 --> 00:18:23.009
of these things and buy it. Why? Why my reward,

00:18:23.230 --> 00:18:25.190
my efforts aren't being paid off with sales.

00:18:25.869 --> 00:18:27.750
And the only way to get my efforts to be paid

00:18:27.750 --> 00:18:30.450
off in sales is to discount my stuff online so

00:18:30.450 --> 00:18:32.529
I can price match with all the other places people

00:18:32.529 --> 00:18:35.650
can go. This is the standard logic. This is the

00:18:35.650 --> 00:18:37.930
standard assumptions. You have to be price competitive.

00:18:38.509 --> 00:18:41.569
And even then, people can just consume your stuff,

00:18:41.750 --> 00:18:43.730
consume your content online, and go buy it somewhere

00:18:43.730 --> 00:18:48.029
else. But I decided to try it anyway. Now, I

00:18:48.029 --> 00:18:50.329
had some ideas about why this would work, and

00:18:50.329 --> 00:18:53.789
I could... I could give you those ideas and I

00:18:53.789 --> 00:18:55.230
could say this is why it works. But at the end

00:18:55.230 --> 00:18:57.289
of the day, it's alchemy. I don't know that this

00:18:57.289 --> 00:18:59.730
is the reason why it works. All I know is that

00:18:59.730 --> 00:19:03.390
it works. So the next slide I show, because we

00:19:03.390 --> 00:19:04.869
still, you know, we want to do magic, but we

00:19:04.869 --> 00:19:07.730
need numbers to back things up sometimes. I show

00:19:07.730 --> 00:19:11.210
a slide of our e -commerce sales year over year.

00:19:11.930 --> 00:19:17.549
2021, we did just over $8 ,000 in e -commerce

00:19:17.549 --> 00:19:20.859
shipping sales in 2021. We had an e -commerce,

00:19:20.980 --> 00:19:22.799
you know, Shopify had set us up. It was very

00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:24.420
easy to turn a button on and say, hey, we can

00:19:24.420 --> 00:19:27.660
ship stuff. 2022, which was sort of the year

00:19:27.660 --> 00:19:31.920
I started germinating this idea, we did 14 ,000

00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:33.819
in e -commerce sales. There was a little bit

00:19:33.819 --> 00:19:35.839
of a bump, probably commiserate a little bit

00:19:35.839 --> 00:19:40.140
with our overall bump in sales. 2023, we hadn't

00:19:40.140 --> 00:19:44.359
started ramping up yet, but we saw nearly double

00:19:44.359 --> 00:19:50.970
from 14 ,000 to 32 ,000. 2024, we jumped from

00:19:50.970 --> 00:19:55.470
$32 ,000 to $65 ,000 in e -commerce sales. And

00:19:55.470 --> 00:19:58.769
then last year, once we were really rolling full

00:19:58.769 --> 00:20:03.690
steam, doubled again from $65 ,000 to $126 ,000

00:20:03.690 --> 00:20:06.930
in e -commerce sales. E -commerce last year accounted

00:20:06.930 --> 00:20:12.049
for 12 % of our overall sales. And here's the

00:20:12.049 --> 00:20:17.500
kicker. We sell at full MSRP online. Yeah. It's

00:20:17.500 --> 00:20:20.779
literally, we have just broadened our customer

00:20:20.779 --> 00:20:25.720
base outside of the local Pittsburgh area. 12

00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:27.420
% of our sale, I mean, we're shipping all over

00:20:27.420 --> 00:20:29.619
the country. We're shipping to Canada. People

00:20:29.619 --> 00:20:33.180
are buying stuff. Customers are paying more to

00:20:33.180 --> 00:20:35.440
buy from us. They're paying for shipping most

00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:37.200
of the time that we do have a free shipping threshold.

00:20:37.460 --> 00:20:39.619
They have to wait longer. I'm not getting stuff

00:20:39.619 --> 00:20:44.339
to you next day the way Amazon does. Why? I've

00:20:44.339 --> 00:20:46.990
got reasons, but does it really matter? It works.

00:20:47.230 --> 00:20:50.990
The logical play would have been either don't

00:20:50.990 --> 00:20:52.769
sell online at all, don't try to compete there,

00:20:52.849 --> 00:20:54.730
or if you're going to compete, discount it. I

00:20:54.730 --> 00:20:57.230
heard it from a retailer just recently. I did

00:20:57.230 --> 00:20:58.690
a tour of some local game stores, and one of

00:20:58.690 --> 00:21:00.990
the game store owners was like, you know, I can't

00:21:00.990 --> 00:21:02.069
sell online. If you're going to sell online,

00:21:02.269 --> 00:21:03.950
you've got to deep discount everything and so

00:21:03.950 --> 00:21:06.630
on and so forth, and it's not worth it. Wasn't

00:21:06.630 --> 00:21:09.390
going to disabuse him of that notion, but yeah,

00:21:09.509 --> 00:21:13.210
it seems to have worked. But I do want to make

00:21:13.210 --> 00:21:19.980
a quick sidebar. to talking about risk. I tried

00:21:19.980 --> 00:21:22.400
this experiment and I was able to do it with

00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:24.740
very little risk. If you looked at those numbers

00:21:24.740 --> 00:21:26.680
now, you could go back and say, oh, well, this

00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:29.019
is a great idea. We should do it. I don't have

00:21:29.019 --> 00:21:30.920
a great personality on camera. Well, I can hire

00:21:30.920 --> 00:21:33.099
someone. Like you could hire a staff person who's

00:21:33.099 --> 00:21:35.299
very gregarious and does video editing and does

00:21:35.299 --> 00:21:38.140
all that stuff. There are ways you can look at

00:21:38.140 --> 00:21:39.880
what we're doing at Games Unlimited and try to

00:21:39.880 --> 00:21:42.220
emulate it. And you can look at the numbers and

00:21:42.220 --> 00:21:44.880
say, this is probably worth the return on investment.

00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:47.259
But none of these numbers existed when we started

00:21:47.259 --> 00:21:50.619
doing this. I was leaning into strengths we already

00:21:50.619 --> 00:21:53.319
had. We already had Shopify set up. You know,

00:21:53.319 --> 00:21:55.359
e -commerce was easy. I didn't have to overhaul

00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:57.940
a bunch of infrastructure to make it work. I'm

00:21:57.940 --> 00:22:00.000
comfortable on camera and it was very easy for

00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:02.079
me to learn video editing. And I had the space

00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:04.240
to do it because I had a great management team

00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:06.240
and Chandra and Dan that were picking up some

00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:08.339
of the tasks that I normally do to free me up

00:22:08.339 --> 00:22:11.279
to do other things. So it didn't actually cost

00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:15.180
me much. to try this. I use the tools at my disposal.

00:22:16.140 --> 00:22:18.180
And that's a thing you should always look at

00:22:18.180 --> 00:22:20.380
when you think about doing some of these bad

00:22:20.380 --> 00:22:22.880
ideas, supposedly bad ideas. What can you try

00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:25.900
out? What advantages do you have that aren't

00:22:25.900 --> 00:22:27.720
going to cost you a lot in resources, be they

00:22:27.720 --> 00:22:30.400
time or money or whatever, to try something?

00:22:31.740 --> 00:22:34.259
And then just constantly think about what's the

00:22:34.259 --> 00:22:37.480
bad idea that you're afraid to try? Figure out

00:22:37.480 --> 00:22:39.339
what works. Figure out what doesn't work. I want

00:22:39.339 --> 00:22:41.220
to point out an example of that because we're

00:22:41.220 --> 00:22:44.019
sitting at it right now. It's this demo bar.

00:22:45.339 --> 00:22:49.099
I think the average retailer would say, I cannot

00:22:49.099 --> 00:22:52.559
afford to give up this much floor space. You

00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:55.480
know, we used to have product here on the shelves.

00:22:55.980 --> 00:23:00.859
And we had a little table that was not as big

00:23:00.859 --> 00:23:03.799
as a card table. It was maybe as wide, but it

00:23:03.799 --> 00:23:07.740
was shallower. And you would put a display there

00:23:07.740 --> 00:23:11.599
and say, here, demo games to people. And we finally

00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:13.900
said, there's not enough room here. We need a

00:23:13.900 --> 00:23:16.359
big, wide bar where we can really bring out the

00:23:16.359 --> 00:23:20.660
games and show them. And measurements were taken.

00:23:20.819 --> 00:23:24.420
And I remember the day when Dan, the manager,

00:23:24.500 --> 00:23:26.099
said, all right, we're going to get all those

00:23:26.099 --> 00:23:27.819
things off the shelves and move that away and

00:23:27.819 --> 00:23:29.359
everything because they're bringing the bar in

00:23:29.359 --> 00:23:32.680
this weekend. And yeah, now we have a bar. And

00:23:32.680 --> 00:23:35.140
I'm sure the average retailer would say, I can't.

00:23:35.420 --> 00:23:38.240
devote that much space can't devote that much

00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:41.099
space also how expensive is that bar right now

00:23:41.099 --> 00:23:43.000
first of all credit where credit is due we were

00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:46.140
talking earlier about ideas mike i believe you

00:23:46.140 --> 00:23:48.619
were the first person to say we what if we had

00:23:48.619 --> 00:23:52.319
a little bar yeah i never i never envisioned

00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:55.259
this thing this thing is wonderful but um yeah

00:23:55.259 --> 00:23:57.160
it had to be something bigger than that table

00:23:57.160 --> 00:24:00.140
and we kind of ran with the idea it's like what

00:24:00.140 --> 00:24:03.000
yeah bar actually a bar and then you know i mentioned

00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:05.559
it to my father -in -law who happens to be handy

00:24:05.559 --> 00:24:09.640
with with tools and construction and he took

00:24:09.640 --> 00:24:12.059
the idea he's an incredible carpenter and found

00:24:12.059 --> 00:24:14.759
the wood and did all this stuff so again these

00:24:14.759 --> 00:24:17.500
were things at my disposal was it like you know

00:24:17.500 --> 00:24:19.480
what let's have a demo bar and it's probably

00:24:19.480 --> 00:24:22.480
going to cost us 10 grand to install this thing

00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:25.359
and let's just do it no it was like here's an

00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:27.220
idea well what can we do what can we work with

00:24:27.220 --> 00:24:36.259
what resources do we have Let's move on to the

00:24:36.259 --> 00:24:39.539
problem with Logic is that it kills off magic.

00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:46.440
So my very first Gamma was in 2017. I bought

00:24:46.440 --> 00:24:48.720
the store. I bought Games Unlimited in 2015 after

00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:51.740
having worked there for a few years. When I bought

00:24:51.740 --> 00:24:55.960
the store, I did not know that you, quote unquote,

00:24:56.140 --> 00:25:01.960
had to sell CCGs. I built the identity of Games

00:25:01.960 --> 00:25:04.140
Unlimited around my passion with board games.

00:25:05.120 --> 00:25:07.279
And then I went to Gamma, you know, and I'm thinking,

00:25:07.339 --> 00:25:09.099
oh yeah, we're awesome. I'm doing this great

00:25:09.099 --> 00:25:10.400
thing and we're, you know, we're making a lot

00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:12.140
of money and my store is awesome, but I'll go

00:25:12.140 --> 00:25:14.160
to this show. Maybe I can learn something. And

00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:16.700
boy, did I learn a lot. But one of the things

00:25:16.700 --> 00:25:21.740
I learned was everyone was so focused on CCs,

00:25:21.900 --> 00:25:25.319
Magic and Pokemon. That was the primary revenue

00:25:25.319 --> 00:25:28.900
driver. And the idea that you would have a game

00:25:28.900 --> 00:25:32.359
store and not sell that stuff, it just, that

00:25:32.359 --> 00:25:34.880
doesn't work. I mean, identity -wise, is that

00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:37.599
even a game store? But also just business -wise,

00:25:37.700 --> 00:25:40.599
how can you do it? But the thing was, I had not

00:25:40.599 --> 00:25:43.259
been told that. I hadn't internalized it. I'm

00:25:43.259 --> 00:25:45.640
kind of glad that I didn't go to Gamma for my

00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:47.279
first two years of being in business because

00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:51.579
I wasn't told the logic. The logic is follow

00:25:51.579 --> 00:25:57.019
this proven revenue model. Alchemy says build

00:25:57.019 --> 00:26:01.119
an identity, right? Now, I'm obviously, you know.

00:26:01.579 --> 00:26:03.519
We're influenced by things. So we did actually

00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:06.759
try CCGs in 2024. Like, okay, well, apparently

00:26:06.759 --> 00:26:08.980
people are making money hand over fist with this

00:26:08.980 --> 00:26:11.799
stuff. It's not our vibe. It's not our passion.

00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:13.660
But let's go ahead and bring in CCGs because

00:26:13.660 --> 00:26:17.799
that's the logical thing to do. We brought in

00:26:17.799 --> 00:26:21.619
CCGs in 2024. And I put a slide up that shows

00:26:21.619 --> 00:26:25.880
in 2024, we did $12 ,000 in revenue from CCGs.

00:26:26.460 --> 00:26:29.190
And that was at a 38 % margin. Which is pretty

00:26:29.190 --> 00:26:31.190
average margins, my understanding, for CCGs.

00:26:31.269 --> 00:26:34.069
If you're not doing singles and more high margin

00:26:34.069 --> 00:26:38.069
used stuff. Our typical margin, our overall margin

00:26:38.069 --> 00:26:43.190
for the store is about 47%. So that $12 ,000

00:26:43.190 --> 00:26:45.630
in revenue didn't lead to a ton of profit compared

00:26:45.630 --> 00:26:51.170
to other things. 2025, $1 ,700 in revenue on

00:26:51.170 --> 00:26:53.470
CCGs at 18 % margin because we were blowing them

00:26:53.470 --> 00:26:57.940
out. Wasn't working. Oh, right. They accounted

00:26:57.940 --> 00:27:00.299
for 1 .6 % of our total inventory. It was an

00:27:00.299 --> 00:27:02.339
experiment, you know. For me, I look at those

00:27:02.339 --> 00:27:04.920
numbers and like, okay, you know, wasn't a big

00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:08.740
risk. We tried it, but it didn't work despite

00:27:08.740 --> 00:27:14.420
it being the logical thing to do. Now, what does

00:27:14.420 --> 00:27:18.240
that mean? It means, and this is another big

00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:20.519
thing on the next slide, if your differentiation

00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:26.059
is small, your competition is large. Why did

00:27:26.059 --> 00:27:30.319
we not sell so much in CCPs? Well, we weren't

00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:33.259
doing anything different than the other stores

00:27:33.259 --> 00:27:35.980
in the area selling CCPs. In fact, well, the

00:27:35.980 --> 00:27:37.799
thing we were doing different was we weren't

00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:39.480
hosting game nights. We weren't doing Friday

00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:42.480
Night Magic. We're not, you know, WotC premium

00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:44.940
store. We weren't doing anything to promote them.

00:27:45.819 --> 00:27:48.440
We weren't doing anything to differentiate ourselves.

00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:51.640
So we were competing with all the other stores

00:27:51.640 --> 00:27:55.509
that have years of experience. selling CCGs and

00:27:55.509 --> 00:27:57.589
some of the various things that go along with

00:27:57.589 --> 00:28:06.029
it. So the idea here is that we are winning as

00:28:06.029 --> 00:28:09.150
a store, not because we're better at CCGs than

00:28:09.150 --> 00:28:11.589
other stores. We're winning because we've chosen,

00:28:11.630 --> 00:28:13.750
and we don't do CCGs anymore, we've chosen not

00:28:13.750 --> 00:28:16.190
to compete. You need to know what are the arenas

00:28:16.190 --> 00:28:19.210
you don't compete in so that you can focus on

00:28:19.210 --> 00:28:21.849
the other things. There's a video that I'm not

00:28:21.849 --> 00:28:24.450
going to play here. of Chandra talking from a

00:28:24.450 --> 00:28:27.589
previous podcast about the blue ocean philosophy,

00:28:27.890 --> 00:28:31.750
which is a really beautiful thing that I'll sum

00:28:31.750 --> 00:28:34.009
up by simply saying he talks about it's a philosophy

00:28:34.009 --> 00:28:36.769
from old school Nintendo, where the higher ups

00:28:36.769 --> 00:28:41.950
there basically realized, hey, these video game

00:28:41.950 --> 00:28:44.670
companies, the Sonys and the Microsofts, they're

00:28:44.670 --> 00:28:46.890
always trying to push hardware, trying to grab

00:28:46.890 --> 00:28:49.329
the hardcore gamers with the next big shooter.

00:28:49.789 --> 00:28:52.329
And they're all fighting over the same segment

00:28:52.329 --> 00:28:55.490
of people. That's the red ocean. Red because

00:28:55.490 --> 00:28:57.269
it's like bloody. We're scrapping tooth and nail

00:28:57.269 --> 00:28:59.630
to steal each other's competitors. The blue ocean

00:28:59.630 --> 00:29:02.170
is this idea, there's a whole other type of video

00:29:02.170 --> 00:29:04.630
gamer out there that you don't have to fight

00:29:04.630 --> 00:29:08.130
for because there's so many of them. Yeah. So

00:29:08.130 --> 00:29:10.950
by focusing on more casual games, couch co -op

00:29:10.950 --> 00:29:12.789
games, we saw this with the Nintendo Switch,

00:29:13.049 --> 00:29:14.950
the sort of stuff you can play with your grandmother,

00:29:15.329 --> 00:29:18.740
they're drawing in a lot more people. And that's

00:29:18.740 --> 00:29:21.740
part of what we do. By not focusing on the red

00:29:21.740 --> 00:29:25.519
ocean of CCGs, we can go into the blue ocean

00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:27.539
of getting more and more people into games, realizing

00:29:27.539 --> 00:29:31.359
there's a huge segment of people that can become

00:29:31.359 --> 00:29:34.240
our customer base. And frankly, I think there's

00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:37.519
far more than we're servicing. I would not consider

00:29:37.519 --> 00:29:39.980
another game store here in Pittsburgh to be our

00:29:39.980 --> 00:29:42.119
competitors. If they are getting more people

00:29:42.119 --> 00:29:46.460
into board games, that's fantastic. Right. Yeah.

00:29:47.990 --> 00:29:49.890
Collaborator is not the right word either, but

00:29:49.890 --> 00:29:52.970
yeah, we're all kind of partners in that together.

00:29:53.390 --> 00:29:56.490
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I tell people our biggest

00:29:56.490 --> 00:30:02.690
competitor is Nintendo and Netflix. It's other

00:30:02.690 --> 00:30:04.190
things that people are doing with their leisure

00:30:04.190 --> 00:30:06.769
time because they don't realize that tabletop

00:30:06.769 --> 00:30:09.309
gaming is a fantastic leisure time activity.

00:30:10.210 --> 00:30:13.089
So I'm gunning for you, Microsoft. All right.

00:30:13.109 --> 00:30:16.619
The next big thing. The nature of our attention

00:30:16.619 --> 00:30:19.960
affects the nature of our experience, or the

00:30:19.960 --> 00:30:21.960
way Sutherland places it, my favorite way of

00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:25.000
placing it. A flower is simply a weed with an

00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:29.599
advertising budget. So I show that on a slide,

00:30:29.740 --> 00:30:31.819
and then before I show the next part of the slide,

00:30:32.099 --> 00:30:36.420
I ask the audience, how many of you would be

00:30:36.420 --> 00:30:39.700
comfortable that had a real -time LCD sign up

00:30:39.700 --> 00:30:42.980
in your store that real -time tracks your revenue?

00:30:43.610 --> 00:30:45.829
tracks how much money people have spent in your

00:30:45.829 --> 00:30:49.410
store. Right behind the counter. As soon as a

00:30:49.410 --> 00:30:52.930
customer buys a $50 game, it ticks up by $50.

00:30:53.690 --> 00:30:55.329
Now, I didn't expect anyone to raise their hand.

00:30:55.390 --> 00:30:56.930
Actually, a couple of stores were like, yeah,

00:30:56.930 --> 00:30:59.730
that would be cool. That's interesting. I want

00:30:59.730 --> 00:31:01.210
to talk to you later. But most people were like,

00:31:01.250 --> 00:31:05.069
no, I wouldn't want to do that. For a couple

00:31:05.069 --> 00:31:06.970
of reasons. Most people were like, that just

00:31:06.970 --> 00:31:08.450
seems weird. I don't want to share that information.

00:31:09.170 --> 00:31:12.500
But I think the... The real deep -seated reason

00:31:12.500 --> 00:31:15.279
that we wouldn't want to do that is because that's

00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:19.119
focusing all the attention on sales and money.

00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:21.599
It's telling not only the customers, but the

00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:25.880
staff, this is the metric that matters. Get that

00:31:25.880 --> 00:31:28.920
money. I see a similar thing with CCG stores,

00:31:29.019 --> 00:31:32.720
and I'm not trying to decry them, but so many

00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:34.759
times stores are focused on what we call butts

00:31:34.759 --> 00:31:37.259
in seats. How many people can I get to my events?

00:31:37.700 --> 00:31:41.160
And that is a useful metric, but... If that metric's

00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:43.160
not turning into sales or turning into the other

00:31:43.160 --> 00:31:44.819
things that are important to you, it doesn't

00:31:44.819 --> 00:31:49.180
matter. So we actually did a thing. We have a

00:31:49.180 --> 00:31:51.920
counter. We have a real -time counter in our

00:31:51.920 --> 00:31:55.019
store, and I'll show a picture of it. But what

00:31:55.019 --> 00:31:59.339
it's showing is games played. Games that we have

00:31:59.339 --> 00:32:00.680
facilitated. Yeah, what's the number on it today,

00:32:00.779 --> 00:32:06.920
Mike? 60 ,825. Yeah. So the sign underneath it

00:32:06.920 --> 00:32:09.880
says games played since 2024. So we've been...

00:32:10.140 --> 00:32:12.859
Counting this since 2024. Now that is, we count

00:32:12.859 --> 00:32:16.299
every game that we sell as a game played with

00:32:16.299 --> 00:32:18.500
the assumption, yeah, it'll get played. Now,

00:32:18.579 --> 00:32:21.039
we all know gamers, some games don't get played.

00:32:21.819 --> 00:32:24.980
Right, but most games get played more than once.

00:32:25.019 --> 00:32:28.740
Exactly, exactly. But we also, the demo bar that

00:32:28.740 --> 00:32:31.279
Mike so eloquently talked about earlier, when

00:32:31.279 --> 00:32:33.480
we teach people games at the demo bar, there's

00:32:33.480 --> 00:32:35.759
a big green button. Hit the button. Goes up.

00:32:35.799 --> 00:32:39.880
We track that as well. So for us... That is where

00:32:39.880 --> 00:32:42.579
we're putting our attention. What do we want?

00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:45.980
What is our goal? People playing games. The funny

00:32:45.980 --> 00:32:48.160
thing about that is, you know, we will demo a

00:32:48.160 --> 00:32:50.880
game for somebody. We don't call attention to

00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:53.779
that sign. And when we're done with the demo,

00:32:53.819 --> 00:32:56.220
they've played the game there. And usually I

00:32:56.220 --> 00:32:59.900
will defer to the customer, the one who had the

00:32:59.900 --> 00:33:01.359
best score or something. But I'll say, well,

00:33:01.400 --> 00:33:03.619
look, since you did that, why don't you go over

00:33:03.619 --> 00:33:05.039
and hit the button? And they go, what button?

00:33:05.059 --> 00:33:08.059
Oh, that. And then we talk about it. And then

00:33:08.059 --> 00:33:10.240
they hit the button and now they want to play

00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:11.900
another game so they can hit the button again.

00:33:12.200 --> 00:33:14.240
So what else you got? I want to hit the button,

00:33:14.359 --> 00:33:16.819
you know? Yeah. And there's a little, there's

00:33:16.819 --> 00:33:18.700
a little asterisk on it too. At the bottom, it

00:33:18.700 --> 00:33:20.740
says, you know, ask us about our 10 year goal

00:33:20.740 --> 00:33:23.940
because we're trying to measure something. And

00:33:23.940 --> 00:33:28.759
our goal is by the end of 2033, that would be

00:33:28.759 --> 00:33:31.599
10 years from 2024. Maths. See, I'm all about

00:33:31.599 --> 00:33:34.740
magic and alchemy, bookkeeping, who cares? But

00:33:34.740 --> 00:33:37.799
our goal is 300 ,000. We want that number to

00:33:37.799 --> 00:33:40.519
hit 300 ,000 in 10 years from when we started.

00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:42.240
And I think we're well on our way. I don't think

00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:43.819
we're going to have trouble. Yeah, I think so.

00:33:44.660 --> 00:33:47.480
But what we're measuring there is the impact.

00:33:48.519 --> 00:33:51.339
We're not just measuring how many games we sold,

00:33:51.440 --> 00:33:53.740
how many games we played. How are we spreading

00:33:53.740 --> 00:33:57.279
the joy of gaming? And that has not only do the

00:33:57.279 --> 00:34:00.019
customers get excited, I think our staff gets

00:34:00.019 --> 00:34:01.859
excited too. Our staff wants to teach people

00:34:01.859 --> 00:34:05.079
games at the demo bar because it moves that needle.

00:34:05.420 --> 00:34:07.099
And that's where we're trying to get people to

00:34:07.099 --> 00:34:09.820
focus. There are certain games that maybe one

00:34:09.820 --> 00:34:12.000
staff member will pull out because someone asked

00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:15.840
about it. And, you know, two others of us working

00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:17.500
are like, oh, hey, do you need a fourth for that?

00:34:17.820 --> 00:34:20.000
I'll come over. I'll join in. Yeah, we get excited

00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:22.360
about that. That's the best part of the job.

00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:28.099
So one of the most successful and illogical things

00:34:28.099 --> 00:34:33.659
that we do is mystery games. Gift -wrapped mystery

00:34:33.659 --> 00:34:37.019
game. So let me explain a little bit about what

00:34:37.019 --> 00:34:39.420
this is and the history of it. Any of you that

00:34:39.420 --> 00:34:41.880
run game stores, you know you get dead stock.

00:34:42.139 --> 00:34:44.460
You get games that you bought too much of. No

00:34:44.460 --> 00:34:46.739
one's buying. What do you do with? Most of the

00:34:46.739 --> 00:34:48.940
time, we clearance that stuff. Have a little

00:34:48.940 --> 00:34:52.019
clearance section. Hey, 20 % off, 30 % off, 60

00:34:52.019 --> 00:34:54.440
% off, whatever. Get it out of my store. I need

00:34:54.440 --> 00:34:57.139
to recoup some money from it. And of course,

00:34:57.159 --> 00:34:59.300
we have that as well. And they're not always

00:34:59.300 --> 00:35:01.400
bad games. I mean, there are some often very

00:35:01.400 --> 00:35:03.739
good games that just... Don't spark interest.

00:35:03.860 --> 00:35:05.579
Right, they don't spark interest. So you've got

00:35:05.579 --> 00:35:07.119
to get ready. You've got to recoup some of the

00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:09.199
money from your investment on that, right? Well,

00:35:09.340 --> 00:35:12.300
years ago, we would try a clearance table. And

00:35:12.300 --> 00:35:14.420
I've never liked clearance tables because I just

00:35:14.420 --> 00:35:15.780
look at it and go like, oh, yeah, these must

00:35:15.780 --> 00:35:19.559
be crap games, even if they're not. But it didn't

00:35:19.559 --> 00:35:22.260
work very well. We could do 30, 40, 60 % off.

00:35:23.099 --> 00:35:25.760
They were moving, but they were moving very slow.

00:35:26.639 --> 00:35:29.280
Now, we also do used games. We sell a lot of

00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:32.510
used games. And I noticed that... I could have

00:35:32.510 --> 00:35:34.489
a game in shrink wrap on the clearance table

00:35:34.489 --> 00:35:37.809
for 50 % off, and there could be an open and

00:35:37.809 --> 00:35:41.530
played copy on the used game shelf for the equivalent

00:35:41.530 --> 00:35:44.889
of 50 % off, and people would buy that one. It

00:35:44.889 --> 00:35:47.829
didn't make sense to me. So I started opening

00:35:47.829 --> 00:35:50.190
the clearance games, taking the shrink wrap off,

00:35:50.250 --> 00:35:51.949
putting them on the used game shelf at the same

00:35:51.949 --> 00:35:55.750
price, and they would sell. This is strange.

00:35:55.889 --> 00:35:58.500
Customer psychology is weird, but whatever. And

00:35:58.500 --> 00:36:00.280
then I got the idea from some other retailers

00:36:00.280 --> 00:36:02.840
and from some bookstores who would like wrap

00:36:02.840 --> 00:36:06.340
up books in brown butcher paper. Get a book.

00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:07.960
You don't know what it is. It's a mystery, but

00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:10.679
it's half off or whatever. I remember that from

00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:12.820
the old store. Yep. Yeah. There was literally

00:36:12.820 --> 00:36:15.360
a day I took our clearance table, which maybe

00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:17.860
had 20 games on it. And most of those 20 games

00:36:17.860 --> 00:36:21.019
had been sitting there for months. I wrapped

00:36:21.019 --> 00:36:22.679
every single one of them in butcher paper. I

00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:25.059
wrote a little description of kind of like the

00:36:25.059 --> 00:36:27.920
type of game it would be. Priced it like 50 %

00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:32.659
off. All 20 games were gone that weekend. Yeah,

00:36:32.679 --> 00:36:35.139
I bought one or two of those. I was like, wait

00:36:35.139 --> 00:36:36.840
a minute. It's literally the same price, but

00:36:36.840 --> 00:36:39.340
because people can't see it, they will buy it.

00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:44.260
It could be anything. Even a boat. Right. So,

00:36:44.420 --> 00:36:47.719
go ahead. You and Shiner talked about that in

00:36:47.719 --> 00:36:50.760
the last podcast. A totally different subject

00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:56.050
of random. effects in games and and Shandra made

00:36:56.050 --> 00:36:59.230
the point that part of that is it gives a surprise

00:36:59.230 --> 00:37:02.190
factor yep to it and that's what you added to

00:37:02.190 --> 00:37:04.550
that game absolutely out of the surprise factor

00:37:04.550 --> 00:37:07.550
so these were doing very well for us uh and then

00:37:07.550 --> 00:37:09.730
the holidays came along and I said what if you

00:37:09.730 --> 00:37:11.309
know part of the problem was it is a little time

00:37:11.309 --> 00:37:13.369
consuming not only wrapping them but then coming

00:37:13.369 --> 00:37:15.449
up with kind of little descriptions of the game

00:37:15.449 --> 00:37:18.090
to write on it um holidays came along and I said

00:37:18.090 --> 00:37:20.809
what if I wrapped them in holiday gift wrapping

00:37:20.809 --> 00:37:23.210
paper You know, do some neutral ones, some Christmas

00:37:23.210 --> 00:37:26.530
ones, some Hanukkah ones. And just don't even

00:37:26.530 --> 00:37:29.590
bother with the description. Just say this is

00:37:29.590 --> 00:37:33.510
a $10 game. MSRP is $25 or more. Something like

00:37:33.510 --> 00:37:39.829
that. Boy, they were gone so fast. It's insane.

00:37:40.090 --> 00:37:42.750
And that was back, I think I was still back in

00:37:42.750 --> 00:37:45.170
the old store when we first started doing the

00:37:45.170 --> 00:37:49.179
gift wrapping. So I throw up on the slide. Our

00:37:49.179 --> 00:37:53.079
most recent numbers. So in 2024, we sold 385

00:37:53.079 --> 00:37:56.320
of these gift -wrapped mystery games at $6 ,400

00:37:56.320 --> 00:38:00.360
in revenue. And in 2025, we sold 500 of them

00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:04.179
at $7 ,700 in revenue. In fact, I start stocking

00:38:04.179 --> 00:38:09.340
up January 1 if I see closeout deals from distributors.

00:38:09.800 --> 00:38:11.679
Stuff that could actually, like, make a profit.

00:38:11.780 --> 00:38:14.519
If I, like, oh, I'm getting this for $5, I can

00:38:14.519 --> 00:38:16.599
sell it for $10, even though it's an MSRP of

00:38:16.599 --> 00:38:19.159
$25 or $30. We're actually making money off of

00:38:19.159 --> 00:38:21.599
it. But the vast majority of it still comes from,

00:38:21.659 --> 00:38:23.780
you know, come November, I start looking. What

00:38:23.780 --> 00:38:25.579
are the games that aren't selling? How can I

00:38:25.579 --> 00:38:29.099
just recoup some money? So, you know, the margins

00:38:29.099 --> 00:38:32.000
actually are terrible. We're getting our money

00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:35.380
back out of it most of the time. The margins

00:38:35.380 --> 00:38:37.219
are terrible. terrible the revenue is not a tongue

00:38:37.219 --> 00:38:39.099
i mean it's not you know that amount of money

00:38:39.099 --> 00:38:42.780
is not going to make or break the store but we

00:38:42.780 --> 00:38:48.860
turn dead inventory into anticipation come november

00:38:48.860 --> 00:38:50.619
people are asking are you going to have those

00:38:50.619 --> 00:38:54.559
mystery games the stories people tell oh i opened

00:38:54.559 --> 00:38:56.260
this game and i'll be on it like they're like

00:38:56.260 --> 00:38:58.119
what game did you get oh this game that i'm like

00:38:58.119 --> 00:39:00.460
oh that game looked like a dog to me we never

00:39:00.460 --> 00:39:02.440
would have played this game and we love love

00:39:02.440 --> 00:39:05.889
it yeah You know, I can think of a couple that

00:39:05.889 --> 00:39:09.449
bought, they each bought a game for the other

00:39:09.449 --> 00:39:11.710
person. And on Christmas, they were just going

00:39:11.710 --> 00:39:14.889
to open their gifts to each other. Uh, I think

00:39:14.889 --> 00:39:17.489
of the guy that bought five of them. He said,

00:39:17.530 --> 00:39:19.750
I have five nieces and nephews and I just finished

00:39:19.750 --> 00:39:23.230
my Christmas shopping. Yeah. Yeah. So this is,

00:39:23.250 --> 00:39:25.750
this is that flower is just a weed with an advertising

00:39:25.750 --> 00:39:28.730
budget. Cause from, from a pure business perspective,

00:39:28.989 --> 00:39:32.210
these are all weeds. We got to prune these games.

00:39:32.710 --> 00:39:34.590
We got to get them out of here. Well, again,

00:39:34.809 --> 00:39:36.610
I'm going to jump on your analogy. You know,

00:39:36.650 --> 00:39:39.269
botanically, there is no classification of weed.

00:39:39.369 --> 00:39:41.670
Right. People think there's trees, there's bushes,

00:39:41.730 --> 00:39:45.929
there's flowers, there's weeds. No. Because weed

00:39:45.929 --> 00:39:48.309
came from the verb to take out the plants you

00:39:48.309 --> 00:39:51.469
don't want. You're weeding your flower bed. And

00:39:51.469 --> 00:39:55.369
a weed is just something unwanted. It's a perfect

00:39:55.369 --> 00:40:01.409
analogy. Test counterintuitive things, if only

00:40:01.409 --> 00:40:04.010
because no one else will. And you may notice

00:40:04.010 --> 00:40:05.929
a lot of the examples that we're giving you from

00:40:05.929 --> 00:40:07.829
what we've done at Games Unlimited, they fit

00:40:07.829 --> 00:40:09.349
into multiple of these categories. I mean, this

00:40:09.349 --> 00:40:13.429
is just overall trying to come up with not good

00:40:13.429 --> 00:40:15.389
ideas that are actually really good ideas. But

00:40:15.389 --> 00:40:18.309
this is the one where I'm glad I have Mike on

00:40:18.309 --> 00:40:21.590
the podcast here. So what I asked, I've got the

00:40:21.590 --> 00:40:23.389
slide up that says test counterintuitive things,

00:40:23.550 --> 00:40:25.949
if only because no one else will. So I asked

00:40:25.949 --> 00:40:27.650
the audience at Gamma, how many of you sell magic?

00:40:29.099 --> 00:40:31.300
Pretty sure every single hand went up. Yeah.

00:40:33.099 --> 00:40:35.440
They had two words after magic, though, right?

00:40:35.500 --> 00:40:38.179
The gathering. The gathering. And then I said,

00:40:38.260 --> 00:40:39.920
well, hold on a minute. No, no, no, no, no. This

00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:41.400
is a trick question. Seriously, how many of you

00:40:41.400 --> 00:40:46.300
sell magic tricks? Most of the hands went down,

00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:49.900
but more than I expected stayed up. There are

00:40:49.900 --> 00:40:52.639
other stores that sell magic tricks. That's a

00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:54.440
great pun. It was a trick question. It was a

00:40:54.440 --> 00:40:56.059
trick question. Well, see, then I asked them,

00:40:56.139 --> 00:40:58.619
what do you mean? All of you put your hands down.

00:40:59.300 --> 00:41:01.719
People go into a game store expecting magic.

00:41:01.800 --> 00:41:05.079
How are you not selling magic? Works on multiple

00:41:05.079 --> 00:41:08.139
levels because we're talking about metaphorical

00:41:08.139 --> 00:41:12.860
magic here. So first I want to actually give

00:41:12.860 --> 00:41:16.360
an example of something that we tried that was

00:41:16.360 --> 00:41:19.539
a good idea that failed. So I asked, you know,

00:41:19.579 --> 00:41:21.500
how many people sold Squishable? Sell Squishable,

00:41:21.579 --> 00:41:24.440
right? I went to Gamma a few years back. Squishable,

00:41:24.539 --> 00:41:27.860
the stuffed animals, all the rage. Every store

00:41:27.860 --> 00:41:29.659
telling me how they can't keep these things on

00:41:29.659 --> 00:41:31.179
the shelves. They're selling them hand over fist.

00:41:31.340 --> 00:41:34.360
So what's the logical thing to do? It's working

00:41:34.360 --> 00:41:35.659
for everyone else. We're going to bring them

00:41:35.659 --> 00:41:39.760
in. They never did great for us. Whatever reason,

00:41:39.820 --> 00:41:41.659
again, I can come up with reasons, but it doesn't

00:41:41.659 --> 00:41:44.480
matter. Bottom line, they didn't work. That seemed

00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:47.980
very intuitive, but it didn't work. But what

00:41:47.980 --> 00:41:50.760
could we try? That was a good idea that failed.

00:41:50.900 --> 00:41:52.980
Are there some things that might be bad ideas

00:41:52.980 --> 00:41:56.889
or counterintuitive ideas that don't fail? Mike,

00:41:56.969 --> 00:41:59.070
can you tell us a little bit about your history

00:41:59.070 --> 00:42:03.510
with magic tricks? My history with magic? Good

00:42:03.510 --> 00:42:06.090
Lord. It probably goes back to about third grade

00:42:06.090 --> 00:42:08.670
when I had a teacher that she had a bunch of

00:42:08.670 --> 00:42:10.789
free books that she was going to donate and said,

00:42:10.849 --> 00:42:12.730
oh, I'll give them to my class first if anybody

00:42:12.730 --> 00:42:18.090
wants one. One was a book of magic tricks. And

00:42:18.090 --> 00:42:20.949
that started me on the path of magic when I was

00:42:20.949 --> 00:42:22.489
in high school, the same time I was learning

00:42:22.489 --> 00:42:26.630
D &D. I had a friend who was taking music lessons

00:42:26.630 --> 00:42:30.110
in the Fulton building in downtown Pittsburgh,

00:42:30.210 --> 00:42:32.110
and there was a magic shop on the same floor

00:42:32.110 --> 00:42:35.090
as his teacher. It was Frank Tomasello's magic

00:42:35.090 --> 00:42:40.170
shop, the late Frank Tomasello. Wonderful place,

00:42:40.309 --> 00:42:42.090
and we started hanging out there. That was the

00:42:42.090 --> 00:42:44.349
place to go to, and we would buy magic, and he

00:42:44.349 --> 00:42:47.130
would teach magic. He was the kind of guy that

00:42:47.130 --> 00:42:49.849
if somebody asked about a trick, he would look

00:42:49.849 --> 00:42:52.530
over at me or one of my friends and say, Well,

00:42:52.530 --> 00:42:54.010
didn't you buy that last time you were here?

00:42:54.110 --> 00:42:56.829
You know how to do it. You perform it. And he

00:42:56.829 --> 00:43:02.650
let us show a fellow customer these things. And

00:43:02.650 --> 00:43:06.650
so he encouraged magic. I was on again, off again

00:43:06.650 --> 00:43:09.030
with it. Got busy through college. Didn't do

00:43:09.030 --> 00:43:14.210
a lot of it. In the realm of too much information,

00:43:14.809 --> 00:43:18.840
I was diagnosed with cancer. at an early age

00:43:18.840 --> 00:43:21.940
and less than 50 -50 chance to survive. I got

00:43:21.940 --> 00:43:24.380
through that and told my wife one of the things

00:43:24.380 --> 00:43:27.760
I really missed during all the downtime was I

00:43:27.760 --> 00:43:31.219
missed doing magic. By then, Frank's shop had

00:43:31.219 --> 00:43:33.039
closed, but another one had opened on the south

00:43:33.039 --> 00:43:35.619
side. It was called the Cuckoo's Nest. Anyone

00:43:35.619 --> 00:43:38.719
doing magic in Pittsburgh knew the Cuckoo's Nest.

00:43:39.420 --> 00:43:44.800
And that... The owners were a married couple,

00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:47.880
and the guy running it had passed on, and after

00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:50.079
a while, his wife lost interest in running the

00:43:50.079 --> 00:43:53.500
store. And it was hard. You know, we talk about

00:43:53.500 --> 00:43:55.880
specialty shops like a brick -and -mortar board

00:43:55.880 --> 00:43:57.659
game store. Imagine a brick -and -mortar magic

00:43:57.659 --> 00:44:02.619
shop. The margins are bad. You know, you don't

00:44:02.619 --> 00:44:06.199
have a high volume, you know, because you're

00:44:06.199 --> 00:44:11.199
so specialized. And because magic is dealing

00:44:11.199 --> 00:44:14.440
largely in secrets, It's not something you want

00:44:14.440 --> 00:44:18.159
a mass audience coming in. You want the people

00:44:18.159 --> 00:44:24.139
that know to do that. But somewhere along the

00:44:24.139 --> 00:44:27.280
way, I had started performing. I had lost my

00:44:27.280 --> 00:44:30.320
job for a while, and I was doing house parties

00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:37.179
where I would perform a 60 -minute mostly mentalism

00:44:37.179 --> 00:44:39.900
show, mind reading. I would mail them a prediction

00:44:39.900 --> 00:44:42.679
a week in advance, and it was fun stuff. Um,

00:44:43.119 --> 00:44:47.900
and then I would also do, uh, readings for them.

00:44:47.940 --> 00:44:50.159
I do palm readings and numerology and other stuff,

00:44:50.260 --> 00:44:56.039
magic adjacent sort of things. And, um, went

00:44:56.039 --> 00:44:57.940
to a lot of lectures because again, the magic

00:44:57.940 --> 00:44:59.579
shop would say, Hey, there's a guy coming to

00:44:59.579 --> 00:45:02.400
town. We're sponsoring a lecture and got to meet

00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:04.619
all the other local Pittsburgh magicians. And

00:45:04.619 --> 00:45:07.079
they finally said, you show up at all these things.

00:45:07.099 --> 00:45:10.440
Why don't you join our magic club? And I said,

00:45:10.480 --> 00:45:12.280
well, if you'll have me, I don't do a lot of

00:45:12.280 --> 00:45:14.280
card tricks and everything. I'm a mentalist.

00:45:14.300 --> 00:45:15.739
And they're like, no, we're interested in that.

00:45:15.940 --> 00:45:20.739
So I joined and cut to the chase. That was a

00:45:20.739 --> 00:45:25.940
little over 20 years ago. And clubs like that

00:45:25.940 --> 00:45:29.860
kind of ebb and flow. But the Pittsburgh chapter

00:45:29.860 --> 00:45:33.739
of Society of American Magicians was officially.

00:45:35.530 --> 00:45:41.389
welcomed in in February of 1928. So we are coming

00:45:41.389 --> 00:45:44.690
up on a hundred years that that club has existed

00:45:44.690 --> 00:45:46.849
here in Pittsburgh. For the last couple of years,

00:45:46.889 --> 00:45:49.369
I've had the honor of being the president of

00:45:49.369 --> 00:45:52.329
the Pittsburgh Assembly of Society of American

00:45:52.329 --> 00:45:58.869
Magicians. And this past year got a presidential

00:45:58.869 --> 00:46:01.730
citation from the national president of the club.

00:46:02.170 --> 00:46:04.409
uh for the work i've done to keep magic going

00:46:04.409 --> 00:46:08.210
here in pittsburgh and uh i think that brings

00:46:08.210 --> 00:46:10.750
us up to date now what does that have to do with

00:46:10.750 --> 00:46:12.789
games unlimited yeah what does that have to do

00:46:12.789 --> 00:46:16.190
well um i don't even remember how it started

00:46:16.190 --> 00:46:19.489
i just think someday you said to me like hey

00:46:19.489 --> 00:46:21.989
we could probably sell a few magic tricks here

00:46:21.989 --> 00:46:25.170
see if you can find a supplier no revisionist

00:46:25.170 --> 00:46:28.010
history okay i know i really don't remember well

00:46:28.010 --> 00:46:33.519
my memory of it is it was Fully from you. I've

00:46:33.519 --> 00:46:35.480
heard your stories about the Society for American

00:46:35.480 --> 00:46:37.679
Musicians, that the cuckoo's nest is closed,

00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:40.820
there's no place to get magic. And you researched,

00:46:41.079 --> 00:46:44.019
you found a supplier, Murphy's Magic, and you

00:46:44.019 --> 00:46:47.320
kind of came to me and said, hey, could we maybe

00:46:47.320 --> 00:46:49.460
try a little spot in the store with some magic

00:46:49.460 --> 00:46:52.780
tricks? Okay. Try selling magic tricks. I'll

00:46:52.780 --> 00:46:55.599
accept that version. And I was like, okay, well,

00:46:55.739 --> 00:46:58.519
Mike, show me how much it's going to cost. And

00:46:58.519 --> 00:47:00.639
you put together an order and it was... It's

00:47:00.639 --> 00:47:03.699
minimal by our standards. I looked at it and

00:47:03.699 --> 00:47:05.380
said, this is not much of a risk. I think the

00:47:05.380 --> 00:47:08.519
first was like $250 or $300 or something. Part

00:47:08.519 --> 00:47:11.079
of it, too, is I checked a couple of suppliers,

00:47:11.280 --> 00:47:14.559
and this one even said, hey, look, we have a

00:47:14.559 --> 00:47:16.880
line that's called the Apprentice Line. It's

00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:19.980
basic, simple stuff, and we'll send you one of

00:47:19.980 --> 00:47:22.440
each for free as a demo of whatever you order.

00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:25.139
You order 10, we'll give you 11. You order three,

00:47:25.219 --> 00:47:27.880
we'll give you four. That sort of thing. And

00:47:27.880 --> 00:47:30.119
I said, okay, good. That'll go a long way because

00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:33.699
it's hard to sell magic without demoing it. And

00:47:33.699 --> 00:47:36.280
we still have to work on that a little bit, but

00:47:36.280 --> 00:47:38.179
we're getting there. Well, and so going back

00:47:38.179 --> 00:47:42.320
to, for me, my risk, I was like, Mike, you want

00:47:42.320 --> 00:47:45.099
to take point on it, go find a distributor, put

00:47:45.099 --> 00:47:46.980
together an order, show me the numbers, show

00:47:46.980 --> 00:47:48.940
me what it's going to look like. It's not costing

00:47:48.940 --> 00:47:52.039
me any time. And minimal amount of money, a couple

00:47:52.039 --> 00:47:54.880
hundred bucks to get started. Couple square feet

00:47:54.880 --> 00:47:57.619
of shelf space. What's the worst that happens?

00:47:57.820 --> 00:48:00.139
We spend a few months with some dead stock of

00:48:00.139 --> 00:48:03.800
magic. Yeah. That Michael probably buy at wholesale

00:48:03.800 --> 00:48:08.820
anyway. Well, yeah, I do also run a society of

00:48:08.820 --> 00:48:11.460
young magician or they're American magician youth.

00:48:11.599 --> 00:48:14.699
They've changed the name. But yeah, I'm always

00:48:14.699 --> 00:48:18.219
looking for low cost stuff for the kids to learn

00:48:18.219 --> 00:48:22.219
from. But at the time I knew I'm not going to.

00:48:22.429 --> 00:48:25.210
bring magic in here and start selling magic right

00:48:25.210 --> 00:48:28.489
away and i you know i was i chandra was saying

00:48:28.489 --> 00:48:31.050
look kylie was patient with me with the rpgs

00:48:31.050 --> 00:48:34.269
and it's taken off over time he'll be patient

00:48:34.269 --> 00:48:37.150
with you too and i was still nervous like but

00:48:37.150 --> 00:48:39.530
i want to show some revenue so i made sure to

00:48:39.530 --> 00:48:43.849
order lots of varied types of playing cards um

00:48:43.849 --> 00:48:46.269
that i thought even if the magic doesn't do well

00:48:46.269 --> 00:48:49.280
the playing cards will will bring in enough to

00:48:49.280 --> 00:48:52.199
keep ordering more magic. Yeah, and pro tip stores

00:48:52.199 --> 00:48:56.880
out there, playing cards are like dice. Yeah,

00:48:56.980 --> 00:49:00.260
I didn't expect that. The more variety of playing

00:49:00.260 --> 00:49:03.239
cards you have, people come in just like dice

00:49:03.239 --> 00:49:04.699
people. I need new dice, I need new dice. They'll

00:49:04.699 --> 00:49:06.340
come in, I want this color, I want that type

00:49:06.340 --> 00:49:11.280
of back. And I don't mean this as a pejorative.

00:49:11.519 --> 00:49:14.519
Dice people call themselves dice goblins. Because

00:49:14.519 --> 00:49:17.039
they want to just hoard more. We have card goblins

00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:20.719
too. Absolutely. More than I expected. I knew

00:49:20.719 --> 00:49:23.820
some magicians were like that. In fact, I know

00:49:23.820 --> 00:49:26.699
a guy who's got four cedar chests full of playing

00:49:26.699 --> 00:49:30.400
cards. But, you know, your average person on

00:49:30.400 --> 00:49:32.519
the street will look at it and say, oh, wow,

00:49:32.619 --> 00:49:34.280
look at these. These are cute. They have dogs

00:49:34.280 --> 00:49:36.599
on them. And these have cats on them. And, oh,

00:49:36.659 --> 00:49:39.059
I like the pattern on this. And these are fun.

00:49:39.079 --> 00:49:44.500
And, yeah. Right now, it's a battle between how

00:49:44.500 --> 00:49:47.420
much do we keep bringing in a deck because it's

00:49:47.420 --> 00:49:50.280
well -liked and how much do we bring in something

00:49:50.280 --> 00:49:52.300
new because people are, oh, no, I have this,

00:49:52.360 --> 00:49:55.260
I have this, and I have this. So let's not bury

00:49:55.260 --> 00:49:56.840
the lead here a little bit. People are listening

00:49:56.840 --> 00:50:01.079
and going, okay, so clearly magic tricks and

00:50:01.079 --> 00:50:05.099
playing cards have been successful. Well, we

00:50:05.099 --> 00:50:07.500
need to define success again, going back to all

00:50:07.500 --> 00:50:09.579
the other things we said. Slide pops up and I'm

00:50:09.579 --> 00:50:12.420
showing. Last year, magic tricks were... 0 .3

00:50:12.420 --> 00:50:16.219
% of our revenue. Now, they were the biggest

00:50:16.219 --> 00:50:18.880
growth category. Doubled from the previous year.

00:50:19.039 --> 00:50:22.719
But this is nothing to write home about. Playing

00:50:22.719 --> 00:50:26.380
cards, much better. 1 .1 % of our revenue. But

00:50:26.380 --> 00:50:28.199
still, neither of them categories that are paying

00:50:28.199 --> 00:50:30.699
anyone's salary. Neither of them categories that

00:50:30.699 --> 00:50:35.079
financially would be missed if they were gone.

00:50:36.260 --> 00:50:40.460
But are they successful? Well, there's a point

00:50:40.460 --> 00:50:42.480
now in the presentation where I had brought along

00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:45.260
a prop, something called the magic coloring book.

00:50:45.619 --> 00:50:47.719
I'll try to describe what happens here. It's

00:50:47.719 --> 00:50:50.880
a coloring book that shows images of like magicians

00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:53.280
doing tricks and stuff that you'd color in. And

00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:56.360
I'd bring an audience member up and say, okay,

00:50:56.460 --> 00:50:58.139
it's magic coloring book. So I flip through the

00:50:58.139 --> 00:50:59.639
book, show them the outlines of the pictures,

00:50:59.739 --> 00:51:02.079
and then have them wave a magic wand and tap

00:51:02.079 --> 00:51:03.840
on the book. And now I flip through the book

00:51:03.840 --> 00:51:07.159
and they're all colored in. Yeah. Great little

00:51:07.159 --> 00:51:11.809
trick. And then I don't remember exactly how

00:51:11.809 --> 00:51:13.630
I did it, but basically the way the trick kind

00:51:13.630 --> 00:51:15.650
of works from there is then you can say, okay,

00:51:15.710 --> 00:51:18.170
make all the colors go away, and then wave the

00:51:18.170 --> 00:51:19.289
wand, and then you flip through the book, and

00:51:19.289 --> 00:51:20.650
now there's nothing. All the pages are blank.

00:51:21.369 --> 00:51:23.750
Yeah, right. The line drawings have vanished,

00:51:23.769 --> 00:51:24.949
too. Right. There's nothing. And then you've

00:51:24.949 --> 00:51:26.309
got to do the magic again and get the drawings

00:51:26.309 --> 00:51:30.110
back. Neat little trick. But there was a day

00:51:30.110 --> 00:51:34.559
that I... Because I'd heard the staff do that

00:51:34.559 --> 00:51:36.400
trick, show it off. Especially kids love seeing

00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:37.780
that trick. And the staff's learned how to do

00:51:37.780 --> 00:51:42.360
this trick. And Mike was doing the trick. The

00:51:42.360 --> 00:51:44.679
kid waved it. And all the coloring, they were

00:51:44.679 --> 00:51:47.300
all colored in. And then suddenly I heard Dan,

00:51:47.420 --> 00:51:51.219
the manager, kind of yelling. Yes, he does that.

00:51:51.539 --> 00:51:55.699
Mike! Are you ruining the coloring books again?

00:51:55.780 --> 00:51:57.920
We cannot sell coloring books that are already

00:51:57.920 --> 00:52:01.300
colored in. And Mike goes, I'm so sorry, so sorry.

00:52:01.480 --> 00:52:04.699
And it's all part of a routine. Get the kid to

00:52:04.699 --> 00:52:06.539
make him disappear. And then there's no pictures

00:52:06.539 --> 00:52:08.500
back. We really can't sell one with nothing,

00:52:08.539 --> 00:52:11.860
you know. And realize that the staff, you all

00:52:11.860 --> 00:52:14.679
had come up with this on your own. Yeah, it happened

00:52:14.679 --> 00:52:17.619
organically. Dan just did that one day. And now

00:52:17.619 --> 00:52:21.260
if he's available, he will always chime in with

00:52:21.260 --> 00:52:23.079
it. And I've done it. I've seen other staff members

00:52:23.079 --> 00:52:27.179
do it. It's a bit. And, you know, I will say,

00:52:27.260 --> 00:52:29.699
I looked at the numbers. Magic coloring books,

00:52:29.860 --> 00:52:32.679
we sold $150 of magic coloring books last year.

00:52:33.219 --> 00:52:36.820
Not a ton. I'm sure. How often do you think you've

00:52:36.820 --> 00:52:40.260
done that trick? Like in a given month? I mean,

00:52:40.400 --> 00:52:43.179
probably, you know, hundreds of times. Yeah,

00:52:43.179 --> 00:52:47.360
yeah. It's not returning on investment monetarily,

00:52:47.460 --> 00:52:52.800
but the culture around it is incredible. Yeah.

00:52:52.840 --> 00:52:56.280
The way the kids' eyes light up, the family's

00:52:56.280 --> 00:53:00.150
eyes light up. It's just doing a thing that creates

00:53:00.150 --> 00:53:04.949
a sense of joy and magic. And also, I know it's

00:53:04.949 --> 00:53:06.670
created a sense of ownership in you, Mike. You've

00:53:06.670 --> 00:53:08.130
talked about it. You still kind of feel a little

00:53:08.130 --> 00:53:10.070
stressed and wish that the magic was better.

00:53:10.349 --> 00:53:12.590
But I can tell you, magic's not going anywhere.

00:53:13.090 --> 00:53:16.869
It doesn't matter that it's not a huge category

00:53:16.869 --> 00:53:18.869
for us. It's funny because I will hand the kid,

00:53:18.889 --> 00:53:21.789
we have these $2 plastic magic wands, and I'll

00:53:21.789 --> 00:53:24.369
hand the kid the magic wand to tap on the book,

00:53:24.489 --> 00:53:27.480
and then the book is colored in. And the kid

00:53:27.480 --> 00:53:32.000
begs their parents, buy me this wand. But they

00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:35.940
don't realize there's a gimmick in the book.

00:53:36.639 --> 00:53:38.199
They think they're going to go home with that

00:53:38.199 --> 00:53:40.019
wand and color in their coloring book. And I

00:53:40.019 --> 00:53:42.360
have to say, no, please don't buy them the wand.

00:53:42.420 --> 00:53:47.039
They're going to get disappointed. Yeah. So the

00:53:47.039 --> 00:53:49.539
next slide I bring up is to drive home something

00:53:49.539 --> 00:53:52.159
really important that I think this story tells

00:53:52.159 --> 00:53:55.320
you. Some categories that you have in your store.

00:53:55.820 --> 00:53:59.619
justify themselves financially other categories

00:53:59.619 --> 00:54:04.320
justify themselves cultural magic tricks are

00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:06.820
staying in our store because they justify itself

00:54:06.820 --> 00:54:09.500
culturally and all the things that it does and

00:54:09.500 --> 00:54:12.980
a great store needs both things so when you're

00:54:12.980 --> 00:54:15.380
testing counterintuitive ideas when something

00:54:15.380 --> 00:54:18.460
seems like a bad idea ask yourself what is the

00:54:18.460 --> 00:54:20.760
metric of success what is that thing doing we

00:54:20.760 --> 00:54:24.960
do free game demos on sundays You can sign up

00:54:24.960 --> 00:54:26.980
to do a full teach. Sometimes they're long, two

00:54:26.980 --> 00:54:30.619
hour long games. We don't charge. We want people

00:54:30.619 --> 00:54:34.280
to come and play games. Now, most stores, a lot

00:54:34.280 --> 00:54:36.460
of stores don't run board game demos or they'll

00:54:36.460 --> 00:54:38.920
do it. They'll charge for it. If they do it for

00:54:38.920 --> 00:54:41.800
free, they do it for not very long because they

00:54:41.800 --> 00:54:45.340
go, well, we had 16 people. We spent the time

00:54:45.340 --> 00:54:47.579
to teach 16 people this game and we only sold

00:54:47.579 --> 00:54:49.920
one copy of the game. That's not worth the staff

00:54:49.920 --> 00:54:52.630
time and all of that stuff. Again, if you're

00:54:52.630 --> 00:54:55.369
looking at it just financially, it's not. But

00:54:55.369 --> 00:54:57.489
the question I always ask, and it's hard to track

00:54:57.489 --> 00:55:00.750
this, how many of those 16 people that played

00:55:00.750 --> 00:55:05.710
that game bought something? Yeah. We can't just

00:55:05.710 --> 00:55:08.110
look at it, this game needs to prove its worth.

00:55:08.309 --> 00:55:10.269
And they'll be back. And they're telling their

00:55:10.269 --> 00:55:12.329
friends about this time they came to this store

00:55:12.329 --> 00:55:14.369
and played a game. And the excitement. People

00:55:14.369 --> 00:55:16.389
are always, regardless of the 16 people playing

00:55:16.389 --> 00:55:18.030
the game, we also track how many people kind

00:55:18.030 --> 00:55:20.070
of shoulder serve. How many people asked, what

00:55:20.070 --> 00:55:22.099
are you playing? What's going on? And that's

00:55:22.099 --> 00:55:26.400
just a big cultural boon for the store. Yeah,

00:55:26.420 --> 00:55:28.719
I'm going to interject again. I'm sorry. You

00:55:28.719 --> 00:55:32.019
got me on a roll now. I don't know if you even

00:55:32.019 --> 00:55:34.039
remember this. I think it was maybe the first

00:55:34.039 --> 00:55:37.119
time we had a formal staff meeting here. You

00:55:37.119 --> 00:55:39.239
did an exercise or you gave us post -it notes

00:55:39.239 --> 00:55:42.780
and write down 10 things that are your job. And,

00:55:42.940 --> 00:55:44.699
you know, I put, you know, whatever, you know,

00:55:44.719 --> 00:55:47.719
you start with the obvious stuff. Well, I, you

00:55:47.719 --> 00:55:50.920
know, ring in sales. I throw out the cardboard

00:55:50.920 --> 00:55:54.760
boxes. And I started, you know, after 10 of them,

00:55:54.760 --> 00:55:56.420
I started running out of things and I started

00:55:56.420 --> 00:55:58.960
getting more general. But then we take the 10

00:55:58.960 --> 00:56:01.599
and we weed it down to five and eventually down

00:56:01.599 --> 00:56:04.059
to one. And the one thing that I had written

00:56:04.059 --> 00:56:08.880
that ended up being my one was make people glad

00:56:08.880 --> 00:56:13.800
they came in. Whether they buy anything or not,

00:56:13.880 --> 00:56:15.800
I want people to be happy that they were here.

00:56:16.480 --> 00:56:18.699
Because then they're going to come back. They're

00:56:18.699 --> 00:56:21.320
going to tell their friends about it. We had

00:56:21.320 --> 00:56:23.760
a woman in here yesterday that came in one day

00:56:23.760 --> 00:56:26.340
looking for games for her family. Wasn't sure

00:56:26.340 --> 00:56:28.980
what to do. I gave some recommendations and she

00:56:28.980 --> 00:56:32.019
walked out. She came back later with her mother

00:56:32.019 --> 00:56:34.900
and two sisters. And we played games at the bar.

00:56:35.400 --> 00:56:37.699
And they bought a couple of them. And a couple

00:56:37.699 --> 00:56:40.539
that the family didn't go for it even if she

00:56:40.539 --> 00:56:41.860
liked it. And it was like, all right, well, we're

00:56:41.860 --> 00:56:43.920
not going to do that one. And she was just in

00:56:43.920 --> 00:56:45.820
here yesterday saying, we are still playing those

00:56:45.820 --> 00:56:48.400
games. She was buying something else while she

00:56:48.400 --> 00:56:52.039
was here. And so, yeah, some of it is just, and

00:56:52.039 --> 00:56:55.159
I still hang on to that, is my job is to make

00:56:55.159 --> 00:56:57.699
people glad they took the time to walk into the

00:56:57.699 --> 00:57:01.280
store. You know, whatever happens from that.

00:57:01.500 --> 00:57:04.139
No, I couldn't have said it better myself. Yeah.

00:57:05.760 --> 00:57:07.559
Let's move on. I'm going to just blow through.

00:57:07.659 --> 00:57:09.320
I've got a couple slides that I won't talk about

00:57:09.320 --> 00:57:12.579
here. But the thing, so. If you're listening

00:57:12.579 --> 00:57:14.179
to this, you're going, this all sounds great.

00:57:14.280 --> 00:57:16.239
I'm worried about taking some of these risks.

00:57:16.400 --> 00:57:19.619
And I mentioned before, you know, the risks don't

00:57:19.619 --> 00:57:23.960
have to be great. Really, what I want you to

00:57:23.960 --> 00:57:25.820
think about reframing, what does a risk really

00:57:25.820 --> 00:57:30.539
mean? If an experiment cannot sink you, can't

00:57:30.539 --> 00:57:32.800
bankrupt you, can't make everything go wrong,

00:57:32.960 --> 00:57:36.960
then it's not risk. It's an experiment. And that's

00:57:36.960 --> 00:57:38.880
really what I'm asking you to do is experiment

00:57:38.880 --> 00:57:42.539
here. Most of the examples. that I showed you

00:57:42.539 --> 00:57:44.300
today, I think all the examples I've showed you

00:57:44.300 --> 00:57:47.980
today, they were very easily reversible. Magic's

00:57:47.980 --> 00:57:49.420
not working out. It's not doing anything culturally.

00:57:49.519 --> 00:57:50.980
Whatever, blow them out. It was a few hundred

00:57:50.980 --> 00:57:53.619
dollars. Wrapping these gift wrap games. Okay,

00:57:53.719 --> 00:57:55.280
we spent, you know, a hundred dollars on gift

00:57:55.280 --> 00:57:57.340
wrapping for the holiday season and, you know,

00:57:57.360 --> 00:58:00.179
some hours wrapping stuff up and no one bought

00:58:00.179 --> 00:58:02.159
them. Okay, we tried it. It's not a big deal.

00:58:02.739 --> 00:58:05.599
They were very easily reversible. But so think

00:58:05.599 --> 00:58:07.820
in terms of experiments because those are not

00:58:07.820 --> 00:58:11.570
really risks. This is the big slide I put up

00:58:11.570 --> 00:58:15.190
after that. It says, your biggest risk is becoming

00:58:15.190 --> 00:58:18.730
indistinguishable. Yeah. Not being able to set

00:58:18.730 --> 00:58:22.289
yourself apart from your competitors, which again,

00:58:22.409 --> 00:58:25.070
I don't even necessarily consider other game

00:58:25.070 --> 00:58:27.690
stores. My competitors are all these other activities

00:58:27.690 --> 00:58:29.889
that people could be doing instead of playing

00:58:29.889 --> 00:58:34.869
tabletop games. Really, one of the things I want

00:58:34.869 --> 00:58:37.869
to drive home is as an industry, we've really

00:58:37.869 --> 00:58:41.940
come full circle. Many stores started off in

00:58:41.940 --> 00:58:44.820
the 90s and 2000s as a bunch of backpack dealers

00:58:44.820 --> 00:58:46.760
that wanted to get wholesale prices on their

00:58:46.760 --> 00:58:48.579
magic cards, right? They wanted to be able to

00:58:48.579 --> 00:58:50.940
play games all day. And we've all seen stores

00:58:50.940 --> 00:58:53.800
like this. They're not great stores. Yeah, they're

00:58:53.800 --> 00:58:55.739
still around. They're still around. I mean, other

00:58:55.739 --> 00:58:57.860
ones are around. The same ones are not still

00:58:57.860 --> 00:58:59.639
around. The stores that have been successful

00:58:59.639 --> 00:59:03.260
learned how to become responsible business people.

00:59:03.880 --> 00:59:06.280
The industry started growing. We became data

00:59:06.280 --> 00:59:08.460
-driven, focused on margins, looking at things.

00:59:08.559 --> 00:59:13.559
We learned business, and that's great. But somewhere

00:59:13.559 --> 00:59:16.179
along the way, I worry that we've become so focused

00:59:16.179 --> 00:59:20.860
on the logic that we lose the magic. The advantage

00:59:20.860 --> 00:59:22.699
we have, as I said earlier, over the big companies

00:59:22.699 --> 00:59:25.679
is they cannot afford to test strange ideas,

00:59:25.960 --> 00:59:31.019
but we can. The biggest risk isn't trying something

00:59:31.019 --> 00:59:33.219
illogical or counterintuitive. It's becoming

00:59:33.219 --> 00:59:36.260
indistinguishable from your competitors. We get

00:59:36.260 --> 00:59:40.699
to optimize for psychology, for experience, rather

00:59:40.699 --> 00:59:42.840
than having to optimize for efficiency. I think

00:59:42.840 --> 00:59:44.119
about that all the time. We talked about how

00:59:44.119 --> 00:59:48.099
much shipping we're doing. Our shipping process

00:59:48.099 --> 00:59:51.860
is not efficient. We are not a big warehouse

00:59:51.860 --> 00:59:54.280
with a conveyor belt. It's a person going down

00:59:54.280 --> 00:59:56.360
there, let me look at all these pile of boxes,

00:59:56.440 --> 01:00:00.440
find one that's the right size. But that's okay.

01:00:01.079 --> 01:00:03.059
Because we're not trying to optimize for efficiency.

01:00:03.579 --> 01:00:06.500
You know what else is not efficient? Taking 30

01:00:06.500 --> 01:00:09.300
seconds to write a little note on the packing

01:00:09.300 --> 01:00:13.639
slip that we put into that box. But we get so

01:00:13.639 --> 01:00:15.900
many people reach out to us because they love

01:00:15.900 --> 01:00:18.380
that they have that little note. Amazon can't.

01:00:19.460 --> 01:00:21.400
They got to be maximally efficient. They can't

01:00:21.400 --> 01:00:23.760
even let their people go to the bathroom. So

01:00:23.760 --> 01:00:28.219
this is my challenge, leaving this seminar. Every

01:00:28.219 --> 01:00:29.699
single person listening to this, every single

01:00:29.699 --> 01:00:33.190
person at Gamma, Do one irrational experiment.

01:00:34.150 --> 01:00:37.349
Not risk. Do one irrational experiment this year.

01:00:38.090 --> 01:00:42.650
If it works, it's science. If it doesn't, it's

01:00:42.650 --> 01:00:45.449
tuition. You learn something. That's what Alchemy

01:00:45.449 --> 01:00:50.329
is. And I want to hear about it. So my email

01:00:50.329 --> 01:00:56.809
is Kylie, K -Y -L -I -E, at gamesunl .com. K

01:00:56.809 --> 01:01:01.030
-Y -L -I -E at G -A -M -E -S -U -N -L .com. I

01:01:01.030 --> 01:01:02.889
want to hear about your idea. Yes, I'm probably

01:01:02.889 --> 01:01:06.949
stealing. But mostly I just, I want to keep you

01:01:06.949 --> 01:01:09.090
accountable. What are you trying? And I heard

01:01:09.090 --> 01:01:10.610
from some people at Gamma that like, this is

01:01:10.610 --> 01:01:11.949
what I'm going to try. One of the things I heard

01:01:11.949 --> 01:01:14.090
that I thought was really cool is a store that's

01:01:14.090 --> 01:01:17.469
more focused on CCGs. They're into like a competitive

01:01:17.469 --> 01:01:20.309
environment, but what would it mean to lean into

01:01:20.309 --> 01:01:22.550
doing more events on competitive board games?

01:01:24.210 --> 01:01:26.849
Oh yeah. Right? Like they already have the customer

01:01:26.849 --> 01:01:29.760
base that likes that. sense of particularly two

01:01:29.760 --> 01:01:32.019
-player competitive games like Tag Team or the

01:01:32.019 --> 01:01:34.659
new Duels of Caria that came out. There are some

01:01:34.659 --> 01:01:35.960
of these board games that really lead themselves

01:01:35.960 --> 01:01:37.800
to that. Like, what if they decided to really

01:01:37.800 --> 01:01:40.519
lean into that? Do events focused on those? I

01:01:40.519 --> 01:01:42.340
thought that was fantastic. Well, I think that's

01:01:42.340 --> 01:01:45.500
what we've got today. I appreciate you all listening

01:01:45.500 --> 01:01:47.880
to our little seminar on alchemy. And really,

01:01:47.960 --> 01:01:50.000
thank you, Mike, for coming on. This was super

01:01:50.000 --> 01:01:52.380
fun. I might force you to come on again. Yeah,

01:01:52.380 --> 01:01:54.760
well, he said, hey, do you mind talking magic?

01:01:54.900 --> 01:01:58.039
Do I? I'll be there. Hey, yeah, this was fun.

01:01:58.329 --> 01:02:01.010
And yeah, we can do it again sometime. Absolutely.

01:02:01.210 --> 01:02:03.250
All right. You've been listening to the Unboxum

01:02:03.250 --> 01:02:05.929
Funcast, a podcast about the front lines of the

01:02:05.929 --> 01:02:08.190
games industry. Oh, this episode was recorded

01:02:08.190 --> 01:02:11.489
on April. What is today? April 10th. It's my

01:02:11.489 --> 01:02:13.630
wife's birthday. Oh, happy birthday, Angela.

01:02:14.510 --> 01:02:15.889
All right. We will talk to you soon.