WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.140 Welcome back to the Unboxum Funcast, coming at 00:00:03.140 --> 00:00:05.200 you from Inside Games Unlimited in Pittsburgh. 00:00:05.400 --> 00:00:07.740 This is a podcast about being on the front lines 00:00:07.740 --> 00:00:10.679 of the games industry from inside a friendly 00:00:10.679 --> 00:00:13.580 local game store. We're recording today on October 00:00:13.580 --> 00:00:17.710 21st. This is... one of our more freeform episodes, 00:00:18.030 --> 00:00:20.750 but it's pretty special because today Chandra 00:00:20.750 --> 00:00:23.789 and I are going to be interviewing Bob Schwartz, 00:00:23.929 --> 00:00:26.649 the person who started Games Unlimited way back 00:00:26.649 --> 00:00:31.050 in 1979. So as always, I am your host, Kylie. 00:00:31.269 --> 00:00:34.009 I'm joined by my co -host, Chandra. And Bob, 00:00:34.090 --> 00:00:36.549 why don't you say hi to the folks? Well, I'm 00:00:36.549 --> 00:00:38.829 glad to be here. I'm glad to be anywhere at this 00:00:38.829 --> 00:00:41.689 age, but thanks for inviting me. We're glad to 00:00:41.689 --> 00:00:44.170 have you here, Bob. Let's, uh... Let's start 00:00:44.170 --> 00:00:46.990 at the beginning and talk about when you got 00:00:46.990 --> 00:00:48.390 into board games. I mean, was that something 00:00:48.390 --> 00:00:50.429 you played as a kid growing up in Pittsburgh? 00:00:51.549 --> 00:00:55.009 Well, on and off, I was always enjoying games. 00:00:55.109 --> 00:00:58.390 And I remember one of the first experiences, 00:00:58.609 --> 00:01:03.369 I asked for a game on my birthday, and I didn't 00:01:03.369 --> 00:01:06.230 get a game. I got toys. Because at the time, 00:01:06.230 --> 00:01:09.030 toys and games were the same word. So I complained, 00:01:09.129 --> 00:01:11.989 and I got a game eventually. And it was called 00:01:11.989 --> 00:01:15.129 Park and Shop. which I consider the first Euro 00:01:15.129 --> 00:01:18.530 game. You were dealt six cards and you had to 00:01:18.530 --> 00:01:23.450 get rid of them. And on this board, drugstores, 00:01:23.590 --> 00:01:28.409 restaurants, post office, all kinds of places. 00:01:28.510 --> 00:01:31.090 And you had to plan your trip in the best way 00:01:31.090 --> 00:01:34.290 to get rid of your cards first. And I loved the 00:01:34.290 --> 00:01:37.430 game. Unfortunately, I found nobody to play with. 00:01:37.489 --> 00:01:41.349 So I had to play solo. And I did that. And I 00:01:41.349 --> 00:01:44.159 did it a lot. I was five years old at the time. 00:01:44.239 --> 00:01:48.140 I made up my own rules. I added on parts of the 00:01:48.140 --> 00:01:51.000 board. I really made the game bigger and better. 00:01:52.219 --> 00:01:55.519 I think the second big event in my life was about 00:01:55.519 --> 00:01:59.439 five or six years later. I went into a hobby 00:01:59.439 --> 00:02:03.079 shop. My mother wanted me to build models or 00:02:03.079 --> 00:02:07.239 something useful, which brings me to a story 00:02:07.239 --> 00:02:09.280 about Chandra's mother, but we'll get to that 00:02:09.280 --> 00:02:13.460 later. So I went into this store, and I found 00:02:13.460 --> 00:02:16.080 nothing that interesting, but in the bottom corner 00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:20.580 of a wood floor, dirty, a stack of Avalon Hill 00:02:20.580 --> 00:02:25.039 games, that the plastic was rough, and it was 00:02:25.039 --> 00:02:27.960 falling off, and nobody was buying them, apparently. 00:02:29.060 --> 00:02:33.599 But to me, it was an impactful moment. I had 00:02:33.599 --> 00:02:35.659 to have that game, and it was like six bucks. 00:02:36.300 --> 00:02:38.819 I only had five, but the guy booked the five. 00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:41.340 Because I think he was happy to get rid of it. 00:02:41.419 --> 00:02:46.020 It was called Tactics 2. A real amazing game. 00:02:46.139 --> 00:02:48.780 And I played a lot of that solo. The thing that 00:02:48.780 --> 00:02:51.360 was amazing is this game didn't have two equal 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:54.060 sides. It had a map. There were mountains on 00:02:54.060 --> 00:02:57.319 the right, a river on the left. I had a city, 00:02:57.400 --> 00:02:59.539 the blue city. Somebody else had a red city. 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:04.300 But it wasn't equal. And you started in different 00:03:04.300 --> 00:03:07.960 positions. Never heard of anything like that. 00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:11.639 That was really revolutionary. And the guy warned 00:03:11.639 --> 00:03:13.479 me, you're going to have trouble with this game. 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:16.719 But to me, that was a challenge. And I loved 00:03:16.719 --> 00:03:21.120 it. I loved them. That's often how we talk to 00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:26.300 parents in this business as well. Parents will 00:03:26.300 --> 00:03:30.199 say, what's a good game for a girl who's 11 years 00:03:30.199 --> 00:03:33.759 old or something like that. And they perhaps 00:03:33.759 --> 00:03:37.180 don't get how vague that is. A lot of the time 00:03:37.180 --> 00:03:41.139 it's not so much can a child play this game, 00:03:41.219 --> 00:03:44.300 it's is the child interested. If they're interested, 00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:46.439 they'll figure it out. Kids are great that way. 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:49.300 Just like you were, Bob, coming up with your 00:03:49.300 --> 00:03:52.939 own rules to play a game solitaire and expand 00:03:52.939 --> 00:03:56.319 upon it. Kids do stuff like that all the time 00:03:56.319 --> 00:03:59.060 if you give them half a chance. But, you know, 00:03:59.099 --> 00:04:03.219 what is their interest level? So you grew up 00:04:03.219 --> 00:04:05.949 playing these games that... you really only found 00:04:05.949 --> 00:04:08.289 in the corner, the dark, dingy corner of these 00:04:08.289 --> 00:04:11.610 hobby stores. But at a certain point, you decided 00:04:11.610 --> 00:04:13.889 you want to open a store. You probably wanted 00:04:13.889 --> 00:04:17.569 to sell games like this. What was your vision 00:04:17.569 --> 00:04:20.410 for Games Unlimited as you originally conceived 00:04:20.410 --> 00:04:26.350 it? The vision was to work for myself, doing 00:04:26.350 --> 00:04:30.129 something that I like instead of working. Like, 00:04:30.149 --> 00:04:33.610 this wasn't going to be work. So the only thing 00:04:33.610 --> 00:04:39.750 that came to mind, with board games. And I envisioned 00:04:39.750 --> 00:04:43.629 a store of about 1 ,200 square feet. And I drew 00:04:43.629 --> 00:04:47.170 this out before we even started. And I mapped 00:04:47.170 --> 00:04:50.829 it out. And there would be one alcove for chess, 00:04:51.110 --> 00:04:56.889 one for backgammon, one for cards, one for dominoes, 00:04:56.889 --> 00:05:00.430 one for every type of game, jigsaw puzzles, handheld 00:05:00.430 --> 00:05:04.959 manipulative puzzles. And that was what I pictured. 00:05:05.519 --> 00:05:08.420 Didn't quite work out that way. I even had tables 00:05:08.420 --> 00:05:11.420 in each area with a couple chairs where people 00:05:11.420 --> 00:05:14.500 would play, like a tea shop or a coffee shop 00:05:14.500 --> 00:05:18.980 these days. That was the dream. But 1 ,200 square 00:05:18.980 --> 00:05:23.339 foot didn't give you that kind of a space to 00:05:23.339 --> 00:05:28.680 do that. I knew that I couldn't be the only person 00:05:28.680 --> 00:05:31.160 in the world that liked to play board games and 00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:33.259 that there was something else out there other 00:05:33.259 --> 00:05:39.339 than Monopoly, which I really disliked. So we 00:05:39.339 --> 00:05:42.000 used to find games and we'd pick them up and 00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:44.860 try them. Avalon Hill had a few games that weren't 00:05:44.860 --> 00:05:49.560 war games. Facts in Five and a number of other 00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:52.480 games you could actually play. Average people 00:05:52.480 --> 00:05:54.519 could play. They didn't have to be war game enthusiasts. 00:05:55.629 --> 00:05:57.709 And we liked getting together and playing them. 00:05:57.750 --> 00:06:00.230 And it just seemed like there was a market there. 00:06:01.389 --> 00:06:06.129 And I contacted a company that owned a magazine 00:06:06.129 --> 00:06:10.990 called Games Magazine. And I asked them, do you 00:06:10.990 --> 00:06:14.490 have a list of companies? And he sent me a list 00:06:14.490 --> 00:06:18.189 of like 150 companies, most of whom sold one 00:06:18.189 --> 00:06:21.930 game. It was like a guy designed a game, paid 00:06:21.930 --> 00:06:24.699 his own money. And his basement was filled up 00:06:24.699 --> 00:06:27.459 with these games. That's the kind of places we 00:06:27.459 --> 00:06:30.720 got. And I wrote to every one of them. And I 00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:34.139 decided there were enough things out there. If 00:06:34.139 --> 00:06:36.100 you coupled it with chess and backgammon and 00:06:36.100 --> 00:06:39.699 dominoes and cribbage, and even the game of Go, 00:06:39.899 --> 00:06:43.959 the Japanese game, somebody would be interested. 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:46.860 I couldn't be the only one. And that was the 00:06:46.860 --> 00:06:51.319 basis of it all. It sounds to me like from the 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:55.339 very beginning, then, you had this vision of 00:06:55.339 --> 00:06:59.500 games to suit all sorts of people, all sorts 00:06:59.500 --> 00:07:03.779 of temperaments. They're, you know, back at that 00:07:03.779 --> 00:07:06.800 time in the main marketplaces, if you went to 00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:08.860 a department store or something, you would find, 00:07:08.899 --> 00:07:12.420 you know, kids games. And if you were lucky, 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:16.699 maybe Avalon Hill and not much in between. But 00:07:16.699 --> 00:07:20.319 it sounds like. You already had the notion that 00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:22.279 there are these really interesting games that 00:07:22.279 --> 00:07:25.699 aren't in mass market. Avalon Hill games weren't 00:07:25.699 --> 00:07:28.459 in the toy department. They were in the stationary 00:07:28.459 --> 00:07:32.100 department. That's where Coffman's, Gimble's, 00:07:32.120 --> 00:07:34.860 and Horne's, Pittsburgh department stores, thought 00:07:34.860 --> 00:07:39.699 they belonged. I never understood that, and that's 00:07:39.699 --> 00:07:42.300 probably why they didn't sell. Well, that's where 00:07:42.300 --> 00:07:45.620 the grown -up stuff goes, right? Nobody bought 00:07:45.620 --> 00:07:49.649 them, but I bought them. So it shows you that 00:07:49.649 --> 00:07:53.209 they weren't taken seriously. It was attack on. 00:07:53.870 --> 00:07:57.589 And they never belonged in mass media, mass market. 00:07:58.350 --> 00:08:01.670 Who was going to sell them? Well, I took that 00:08:01.670 --> 00:08:04.709 as what I should be doing. So at this point, 00:08:04.810 --> 00:08:08.050 it's probably mid -late 70s at this point, you've 00:08:08.050 --> 00:08:10.769 decided, yeah, maybe this is something that you 00:08:10.769 --> 00:08:12.470 want to do. Open this game store. You've got 00:08:12.470 --> 00:08:15.810 this great vision. Where do you go from there? 00:08:15.870 --> 00:08:18.370 You've even... reached out and found out where 00:08:18.370 --> 00:08:20.850 you can get games from these companies. But did 00:08:20.850 --> 00:08:23.889 you do any other research, right? Back then, 00:08:23.970 --> 00:08:25.790 there's no internet back then. You can't just 00:08:25.790 --> 00:08:28.490 go online. I don't even think, I mean, the Game 00:08:28.490 --> 00:08:30.970 Manufacturers Association, I want to say that 00:08:30.970 --> 00:08:33.129 started right around this time, late 70s. So 00:08:33.129 --> 00:08:34.769 I don't know if that was something you were aware 00:08:34.769 --> 00:08:37.889 of. How do you research back then? How do you 00:08:37.889 --> 00:08:41.590 decide what works, what doesn't work? Were there 00:08:41.590 --> 00:08:43.429 examples of other game stores you were able to 00:08:43.429 --> 00:08:46.570 find? What did that process look like? I heard 00:08:46.570 --> 00:08:48.570 that there were some places in San Francisco 00:08:48.570 --> 00:08:51.970 and Los Angeles. So I hopped on a plane and I 00:08:51.970 --> 00:08:55.730 went. And I found a place in San Francisco that 00:08:55.730 --> 00:08:59.870 was my dream place. It was an open mall. It had 00:08:59.870 --> 00:09:03.350 maybe 10 different stores, a shoe store and a 00:09:03.350 --> 00:09:07.029 drug store. And then there was a game store off 00:09:07.029 --> 00:09:10.309 on the side. And it was all open air. There were 00:09:10.309 --> 00:09:13.840 no walls. At night, when they closed, they pulled 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:15.539 a gate around it and they locked their stuff 00:09:15.539 --> 00:09:19.919 up. But this place was my dream. I walked in 00:09:19.919 --> 00:09:21.679 and right in the middle, there was a display 00:09:21.679 --> 00:09:25.360 with the game of Go demoing right in front of 00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:27.879 me and these games that I had never seen before. 00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:31.700 And long story short, I went to LA, didn't find 00:09:31.700 --> 00:09:34.539 anything that good, came back and then I had 00:09:34.539 --> 00:09:37.460 something to really sink my teeth into. Now, 00:09:37.500 --> 00:09:40.850 I wanted to duplicate what that guy did. But 00:09:40.850 --> 00:09:43.529 I didn't have the money to pay the rent that 00:09:43.529 --> 00:09:48.490 he was paying. But that was my research, the 00:09:48.490 --> 00:09:53.929 one store. And the list that I got from Games 00:09:53.929 --> 00:09:57.769 Magazine, that's what I had. That's all I had. 00:09:57.970 --> 00:10:00.350 Yeah, cramp up your hands writing letter after 00:10:00.350 --> 00:10:03.769 letter to these companies. That's what it meant. 00:10:03.950 --> 00:10:07.909 Yeah, or call them all. I had to buy like three 00:10:07.909 --> 00:10:10.990 games from this company. They only made one game 00:10:10.990 --> 00:10:13.090 and I did three copies. They were happy to sell 00:10:13.090 --> 00:10:15.169 them. They didn't have anybody else selling. 00:10:16.409 --> 00:10:19.289 Or you buy a dozen and they pay the freight. 00:10:19.429 --> 00:10:22.210 But I couldn't afford to buy a dozen. So I had 00:10:22.210 --> 00:10:24.029 to give up on that. But anyway, that was the 00:10:24.029 --> 00:10:29.230 basic idea. So you open up. I believe you've 00:10:29.230 --> 00:10:33.169 told me you opened October 1st. This was 1979, 00:10:33.490 --> 00:10:36.059 although... Those of you who've been around Games 00:10:36.059 --> 00:10:38.580 Unlimited for a while know we celebrated our 00:10:38.580 --> 00:10:43.899 40th anniversary in 2018 because we thought the 00:10:43.899 --> 00:10:46.879 store opened in 1978. But after we moved up to 00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:49.980 Forbes, found a bunch of boxes and receipts and 00:10:49.980 --> 00:10:51.860 various documents in the basement of the old 00:10:51.860 --> 00:10:54.539 store and was able to realize, no, no, no, it 00:10:54.539 --> 00:10:57.679 wasn't 1979. It was 1978. Excuse me. It wasn't 00:10:57.679 --> 00:11:00.679 1978. It was 1979 that the store actually opened. 00:11:02.059 --> 00:11:06.480 And Bob, you've mentioned that you opened October 00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:09.779 1st. The idea was you want to open just at the 00:11:09.779 --> 00:11:12.500 start of Q4, the busy holiday shopping season. 00:11:12.580 --> 00:11:14.919 Because if you're going to survive, that's when 00:11:14.919 --> 00:11:17.240 the big influx of cash is going to come. So if 00:11:17.240 --> 00:11:18.799 you're going to open a brand new store, that's 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:20.860 the time to do it because you're going to hopefully 00:11:20.860 --> 00:11:22.519 get a big influx of cash during that season. 00:11:23.379 --> 00:11:27.559 So October 1, 1979, Games Unlimited opens its 00:11:27.559 --> 00:11:30.000 doors. Do you remember that day? Do you remember 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:31.700 the first day that Games Unlimited was open? 00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:36.159 As clear as the day. Unbelievable. We went in 00:11:36.159 --> 00:11:39.779 and for an hour, nothing happened. I didn't really 00:11:39.779 --> 00:11:42.740 have any doubts, but I was disappointed because 00:11:42.740 --> 00:11:45.460 we had made flyers and we went down to the universities, 00:11:45.740 --> 00:11:49.659 Pitt, Duquesne, CMU, even Robert Morris, the 00:11:49.659 --> 00:11:53.480 high schools, Taylor Alderdice, passed out handouts. 00:11:54.259 --> 00:11:56.620 Pretty good ones, too. We had a guy that did 00:11:56.620 --> 00:12:00.169 a nice job on them. And I expected, well, we 00:12:00.169 --> 00:12:02.909 could have people right off the bat. But finally, 00:12:02.990 --> 00:12:05.409 at about 11 .15, a lady walked in and bought 00:12:05.409 --> 00:12:09.730 a manipulation puzzle. There was a company called 00:12:09.730 --> 00:12:12.950 Magnith, and they made these things that you 00:12:12.950 --> 00:12:16.690 manipulate. Puzzles. And it was like 10 bucks. 00:12:17.009 --> 00:12:21.029 But that was the start. That was day one. About 00:12:21.029 --> 00:12:24.409 two hours later, a major moment. A guy walked 00:12:24.409 --> 00:12:27.419 in. His name was Don Miller. And he said, where's 00:12:27.419 --> 00:12:31.120 your Dungeons & Dragons stuff? And I said, what 00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:33.600 are you talking about? What is Dungeons & Dragons? 00:12:34.899 --> 00:12:38.039 And he said, well, and he sat down and explained 00:12:38.039 --> 00:12:41.399 to me. And he said, as luck would have it, I 00:12:41.399 --> 00:12:44.759 sell this stuff to, you know, little mom and 00:12:44.759 --> 00:12:49.320 pop drugstores and hobby shops. And I said, oh, 00:12:49.340 --> 00:12:50.980 so you want to sell me it? He said, of course. 00:12:51.120 --> 00:12:55.360 So I bought two games, the starter set. a couple 00:12:55.360 --> 00:13:00.639 sets of dice, a lead figure of a fighter and 00:13:00.639 --> 00:13:05.200 a mage, and I thought I was in business. So I 00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:09.259 gave it about two feet of shelf space, about 00:13:09.259 --> 00:13:11.460 four feet tall, and spread it out, and I was 00:13:11.460 --> 00:13:16.659 proud. And it was all done in three days. So 00:13:16.659 --> 00:13:21.860 that first day was pretty eye -opening. Okay, 00:13:21.879 --> 00:13:26.269 now that's fascinating. It's 1979. You've just 00:13:26.269 --> 00:13:30.769 opened a game store, but you'd never heard of 00:13:30.769 --> 00:13:32.950 Dungeons & Dragons. I mean, this is certainly 00:13:32.950 --> 00:13:38.110 the very early days of D &D. But day one, someone 00:13:38.110 --> 00:13:39.909 comes in and asks about Dungeons & Dragons. So 00:13:39.909 --> 00:13:42.990 clearly people had heard of it. And so now you're 00:13:42.990 --> 00:13:46.169 selling it. Were you advertising this? Did other 00:13:46.169 --> 00:13:48.789 people actually know what D &D was at the time 00:13:48.789 --> 00:13:51.629 we're coming to you asking for it? Oh, the kids 00:13:51.629 --> 00:13:55.720 knew. I didn't know. So I'm an adult, 30 years 00:13:55.720 --> 00:13:58.200 old. I didn't know anything about Dungeons & 00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:01.600 Dragons. I mean, I didn't know anything at all 00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:04.580 about it. But I had to call this guy the next 00:14:04.580 --> 00:14:07.000 day, and I said, everything you gave me, he said, 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:10.000 you should have bought more. I said, well, okay, 00:14:10.259 --> 00:14:14.740 but come back. So I bought five sets, and I bought 00:14:14.740 --> 00:14:18.519 five figures, and four sets of dice, and a couple 00:14:18.519 --> 00:14:21.500 modules, whatever they were. They were add -ons. 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:24.340 And he said, and I have this stuff from Judge's 00:14:24.340 --> 00:14:27.059 Guild. If you've been around a while, you know 00:14:27.059 --> 00:14:29.299 what that was. It was a company that was feeding 00:14:29.299 --> 00:14:33.639 off of Dungeons & Dragons, making their own homemade 00:14:33.639 --> 00:14:38.399 dungeons. So I said, give me a couple of those. 00:14:38.539 --> 00:14:42.460 What do I know? And really, within a week, all 00:14:42.460 --> 00:14:45.139 that was gone. And I knew that something had 00:14:45.139 --> 00:14:49.220 to be done. So I called the company. And I said, 00:14:49.240 --> 00:14:51.200 where can I get this stuff? I can't buy it from 00:14:51.200 --> 00:14:53.679 this guy running around on the street. And they 00:14:53.679 --> 00:14:55.539 said, there's a distributor down in Pittsburgh 00:14:55.539 --> 00:14:59.379 that has everything you need. And that was the 00:14:59.379 --> 00:15:02.679 next step. I went down and I saw up a shopping 00:15:02.679 --> 00:15:06.960 basket and bring it back. And now we had four 00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:12.500 feet of shelf space, five feet tall. And that 00:15:12.500 --> 00:15:16.539 was a lot of space to give it. And within three 00:15:16.539 --> 00:15:21.460 months. Probably, we opened in October. By spring, 00:15:21.659 --> 00:15:26.759 we had given it now 15 % of the store. We had 00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:29.000 modules from every company in the world. We had 00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:34.120 dozens of lead figures, dozens and dozens, with 00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:39.039 dice coming out of our ear. And anything that 00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:43.139 was connected to the game, we took it, and it 00:15:43.139 --> 00:15:46.419 all sold. Without that, we may not have even 00:15:46.419 --> 00:15:49.360 survived. I didn't know. We weren't selling enough 00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:53.519 chess sets to pay for the rent. But D &D got 00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:58.379 us off to a real hard start. So this D &D comes 00:15:58.379 --> 00:16:00.820 out of left field. It's a big surprise. Pretty 00:16:00.820 --> 00:16:04.539 soon it's 15 % of the store, like you said. Were 00:16:04.539 --> 00:16:07.480 the war games selling? Did you find you were 00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:10.139 doing more of just the classic stuff? What other 00:16:10.139 --> 00:16:13.179 kind of surprises, things you didn't expect happened 00:16:13.179 --> 00:16:16.659 in that first year of the store being open? Well, 00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:19.299 the other games were doing fine. There were other 00:16:19.299 --> 00:16:24.899 surprises sales -wise. But D &D dollar -wise 00:16:24.899 --> 00:16:27.600 dwarfed everybody. You have to remember, everything 00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:29.840 was a surprise. We had no idea what was going 00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:34.240 to happen. One game called Pigmania. We sold 00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:37.799 that probably the number one number of copies, 00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:40.919 individual copies. It was a game with rubber 00:16:40.919 --> 00:16:44.980 dice made it. They were pigs, rubber pigs. You 00:16:44.980 --> 00:16:47.700 rolled them and they came up with different combinations 00:16:47.700 --> 00:16:51.379 and you scored points. It was kind of like keep 00:16:51.379 --> 00:16:55.039 rolling until you pig out and lose your points. 00:16:56.059 --> 00:16:58.740 We sold a lot of those. So I put those right 00:16:58.740 --> 00:17:01.159 at the cash register and people thought that 00:17:01.159 --> 00:17:06.210 was cute and they'd buy it. Another game that 00:17:06.210 --> 00:17:09.549 sold very well, really well, was Pente, if you 00:17:09.549 --> 00:17:12.730 remember that. Glass beads, beautiful game. You 00:17:12.730 --> 00:17:15.150 lay it out in the middle of the table. It was 00:17:15.150 --> 00:17:17.890 gorgeous. And it was easy to play. It was no 00:17:17.890 --> 00:17:21.089 harder than tic -tac -toe almost. Based on the 00:17:21.089 --> 00:17:24.450 game of Go, but a simplified version. We sold 00:17:24.450 --> 00:17:26.609 a lot of that. And there were two or three other 00:17:26.609 --> 00:17:30.109 ones, but that's two of the biggest. You've talked 00:17:30.109 --> 00:17:32.789 about how... You used to be able to find war 00:17:32.789 --> 00:17:34.950 games at the department stores. They were in 00:17:34.950 --> 00:17:37.009 the wrong section of the store. So now you've 00:17:37.009 --> 00:17:39.609 had the opportunity to show people what this 00:17:39.609 --> 00:17:41.750 are, maybe put them in their element. Were they 00:17:41.750 --> 00:17:44.509 actually selling the Avalon Hills? I don't know 00:17:44.509 --> 00:17:46.490 when SPI started, if that was a thing back then, 00:17:46.569 --> 00:17:49.490 but were the war games actually selling in the 00:17:49.490 --> 00:17:52.910 location? No, and you had your hardcore group 00:17:52.910 --> 00:17:56.029 of war gamers and they supported us. We sold 00:17:56.029 --> 00:17:59.940 a lot of war games, but not... Deep copies. We 00:17:59.940 --> 00:18:02.819 sold four of this game, four of that. We might 00:18:02.819 --> 00:18:06.519 have sold a dozen in a year of 10 different games. 00:18:06.680 --> 00:18:09.420 But that was substantial. And it was important 00:18:09.420 --> 00:18:13.900 because these people were very supportive. They 00:18:13.900 --> 00:18:16.180 loved their hobby and they loved their war games. 00:18:16.859 --> 00:18:19.420 And eventually war games got to be pretty expensive. 00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:23.940 So there was a lot of money involved. Kind of 00:18:23.940 --> 00:18:27.000 interesting hearing all of this for me because 00:18:27.549 --> 00:18:30.230 In a way, it's the more things change, the more 00:18:30.230 --> 00:18:36.089 they stay the same. We still sell a bunch of 00:18:36.089 --> 00:18:40.369 accessible games, you know, in the Pente or Pass 00:18:40.369 --> 00:18:43.730 the Pigs kind of area. Good family games that 00:18:43.730 --> 00:18:48.130 have some strategy and thought to them. We also 00:18:48.130 --> 00:18:53.859 have our hardcore gamer supporters who... come 00:18:53.859 --> 00:18:56.680 to us time and time again for these very expensive 00:18:56.680 --> 00:19:01.579 strategy games and the role -playing game section 00:19:01.579 --> 00:19:07.740 that has its own entire audience. It's just really 00:19:07.740 --> 00:19:10.680 interesting to me to hear how these general categories 00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:16.119 actually seem to still be more or less cemented 00:19:16.119 --> 00:19:19.839 and still to be kind of the pillars of what keeps 00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:22.380 Games Unlimited running so many years later. 00:19:23.819 --> 00:19:27.420 Well, the layout was very important too. I've 00:19:27.420 --> 00:19:29.420 talked to Kylie about this a lot, but I used 00:19:29.420 --> 00:19:32.720 to make sure that when people walked in the store, 00:19:32.839 --> 00:19:36.420 they weren't knocked out by these weird games. 00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:41.259 So I've made sure Monopoly, Clue, Othello, all 00:19:41.259 --> 00:19:43.559 the things they'd feel comfortable looking at. 00:19:43.759 --> 00:19:46.819 And then to the right, there was chess. And to 00:19:46.819 --> 00:19:48.920 the left, there was backgammon. And there were 00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:51.299 dominoes. So when they got in the first third 00:19:51.299 --> 00:19:54.950 of the store, It wasn't scary like it could have 00:19:54.950 --> 00:19:57.650 been. And I put Pente up front, too, because 00:19:57.650 --> 00:20:01.490 it looked so good. In the back went the war games. 00:20:01.609 --> 00:20:04.670 And when the hardcore came in, we could keep 00:20:04.670 --> 00:20:08.150 them segregated from the real people. I'm sorry. 00:20:08.250 --> 00:20:12.549 I don't mean that in a negative, too negative 00:20:12.549 --> 00:20:16.829 a way. But, you know, they were talking and people 00:20:16.829 --> 00:20:19.349 heard them and thought, I'm getting out of here. 00:20:19.490 --> 00:20:23.750 I don't want to be part of this. And the D &D 00:20:23.750 --> 00:20:25.950 crowd was a little bit like that, too. They had 00:20:25.950 --> 00:20:31.710 a tendency to scare some people away. And that's 00:20:31.710 --> 00:20:33.910 when I remember your mother came in and said, 00:20:33.970 --> 00:20:37.609 what am I getting into with my son playing these 00:20:37.609 --> 00:20:41.809 role -playing games? Explain yourself, Mr. Game 00:20:41.809 --> 00:20:46.269 Store Man. And she was so nice, and I explained 00:20:46.269 --> 00:20:48.849 it to her, that the people playing these games, 00:20:48.890 --> 00:20:51.569 the kids that were playing them, you, by the 00:20:51.569 --> 00:20:55.720 way. or much younger. No gray in your beard at 00:20:55.720 --> 00:20:59.500 all at that time. But I told her that people 00:20:59.500 --> 00:21:02.480 playing it are the best students. They have the 00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:07.420 highest grades. You have to have comprehension, 00:21:07.500 --> 00:21:09.559 reading comprehension. You have to have math 00:21:09.559 --> 00:21:14.380 skills. The rules are written so poorly in many 00:21:14.380 --> 00:21:18.599 cases that you have to be able to read and comprehend 00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:21.710 what this guy's telling you. And you have to 00:21:21.710 --> 00:21:25.630 be able to create. And she bought it. She accepted 00:21:25.630 --> 00:21:29.710 my explanation. And she let you continue on your 00:21:29.710 --> 00:21:34.390 road to being a major part in Games Unlimited. 00:21:34.930 --> 00:21:39.589 It's funny because nothing you told her was untrue. 00:21:40.369 --> 00:21:43.750 I think it's just at that time, also, no one 00:21:43.750 --> 00:21:46.609 was thinking in terms of making a career out 00:21:46.609 --> 00:21:50.579 of this stuff. I mean, a handful of people were, 00:21:50.660 --> 00:21:52.960 I'm sure, you know, there were some people doing 00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:56.839 it, but most for most people, it was at best 00:21:56.839 --> 00:22:03.359 a paying hobby. Um, but you know, you talking 00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:06.779 to my mother in, in such a kind way, you know, 00:22:06.779 --> 00:22:09.740 making her feel more comfortable with this, with 00:22:09.740 --> 00:22:11.759 this hobby that my friends and I were spending 00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:14.200 so much time and energy on and that kids today 00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:18.119 still do. made her feel more comfortable with 00:22:18.119 --> 00:22:24.259 it and we continued on and here I am making a 00:22:24.259 --> 00:22:28.200 living doing this stuff I'm not a designer yet 00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:32.319 maybe those days will come but I'm still in this 00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:35.859 industry because of that conversation you had 00:22:35.859 --> 00:22:39.539 and I'm sure there are more kids than me who 00:22:39.539 --> 00:22:42.819 grew up having bought their first games at games 00:22:42.819 --> 00:22:47.400 unlimited and found their way into the industry 00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:51.420 one way or another. There were a lot of mothers, 00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:53.779 just like your mother, that had the same questions. 00:22:53.900 --> 00:22:56.839 And they had every right to, and I respected 00:22:56.839 --> 00:22:59.420 their questions. I wasn't trying to make things 00:22:59.420 --> 00:23:01.799 up. I was telling them what I really believed. 00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:04.619 And I still believe to this day, the kids that 00:23:04.619 --> 00:23:09.779 grew up playing D &D were generally quiet loners. 00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:13.279 And that D &D brought them out. And I think it 00:23:13.279 --> 00:23:16.440 made them better people and made their careers 00:23:16.440 --> 00:23:19.539 better, whether they stayed in the industry or 00:23:19.539 --> 00:23:23.059 went on to be lawyers or doctors. I really believe 00:23:23.059 --> 00:23:26.400 that. I agree. I know all of my friends I grew 00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:29.900 up playing games with that you sold Dyson books 00:23:29.900 --> 00:23:35.200 to, a lot of them, you know, they're all very 00:23:35.200 --> 00:23:37.960 successful in all sorts of different fields now. 00:23:38.859 --> 00:23:42.420 Did you ever see Games Unlimited as your forever 00:23:42.420 --> 00:23:44.019 job, as the job you were going to have until 00:23:44.019 --> 00:23:48.480 your retirement? No question about that. I foresaw 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:51.779 two ways that I was going to leave this world. 00:23:51.880 --> 00:23:54.980 I would be behind the counter and drop dead at 00:23:54.980 --> 00:23:59.720 80, or I'd be on a softball field on a Sunday. 00:23:59.960 --> 00:24:03.240 Same deal. That's what I planned on doing. I 00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:06.019 love coming to work every day. I love talking 00:24:06.019 --> 00:24:09.240 to the gamers because... It was a kindred spirit 00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:12.519 type thing. I really enjoyed coming to work every 00:24:12.519 --> 00:24:15.460 day. I enjoyed everything from unpacking the 00:24:15.460 --> 00:24:19.319 boxes. You may agree with that, but I enjoyed 00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:22.160 opening the boxes. It was like Christmas. Every 00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:27.640 day a box of games came in. You'd open it up, 00:24:27.640 --> 00:24:29.880 you'd hold it in your hand, and you'd say, I 00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:32.640 can't open them all. I've got to sell a few of 00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:37.210 them. But it was really like Christmas, and I 00:24:37.210 --> 00:24:41.190 enjoy every part of it. In a way, it was like 00:24:41.190 --> 00:24:45.769 a game. Buy the right things, sell them, make 00:24:45.769 --> 00:24:49.549 money, and then play more games. Something a 00:24:49.549 --> 00:24:51.730 lot of people don't know about you, Bob, is you 00:24:51.730 --> 00:24:56.099 were probably the first. person to do videos 00:24:56.099 --> 00:25:01.099 and radio interviews, reviews of games. You interviewed 00:25:01.099 --> 00:25:03.799 designers. You talked about games. You had a 00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:06.480 video channel on the internet before YouTube, 00:25:06.579 --> 00:25:09.759 I believe. Tell me how that all started. We opened 00:25:09.759 --> 00:25:13.420 up a second store in Brentwood, PA, because we 00:25:13.420 --> 00:25:18.000 could do no wrong. And while I was there, a guy 00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:21.680 walked in and said, I like what you're doing, 00:25:21.740 --> 00:25:25.400 and I do a radio show every morning, and I'd 00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:28.220 like you to come on every Friday and take 15 00:25:28.220 --> 00:25:31.119 minutes and bring a game and tell us about it. 00:25:32.119 --> 00:25:34.480 And we did that for two or three years. We did 00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:36.839 hundreds of episodes. They were only 15 minutes, 00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:40.779 and it was unpolished, but people seemed to like 00:25:40.779 --> 00:25:44.220 it, and we'd get phone calls. And it was up to 00:25:44.220 --> 00:25:47.700 me. I could bring anything I wanted. Well, eventually... 00:25:48.589 --> 00:25:50.950 They changed from an all -thought format, and 00:25:50.950 --> 00:25:53.869 I was let go. But so was everybody else. But 00:25:53.869 --> 00:25:59.130 fast forward to the year 1999, and a guy who 00:25:59.130 --> 00:26:01.569 used to listen to that show came up, and he said, 00:26:01.609 --> 00:26:04.730 I'm a director, and we're going to start a channel, 00:26:04.869 --> 00:26:10.390 Live Internet TV. And we want you to do a game 00:26:10.390 --> 00:26:13.970 segment every week for half an hour, kind of 00:26:13.970 --> 00:26:16.869 like a TV show. And I said, wait a second, live? 00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:19.700 He said, yeah, we're going to do it live. We're 00:26:19.700 --> 00:26:22.079 going to post it live around the world. Well, 00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:27.099 that was a little scary. But he said, bring anything 00:26:27.099 --> 00:26:31.000 you like. And it was his idea to do the game 00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:37.000 show, my idea how to set it all up. And one day 00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:40.539 I showed up and they had a studio and the camera 00:26:40.539 --> 00:26:45.180 was on and he said, start. And that's an experience 00:26:45.180 --> 00:26:48.069 when you know. You can't make a mistake because 00:26:48.069 --> 00:26:51.269 this is going out live. And we did a game called 00:26:51.269 --> 00:26:54.170 El Grande by Kramer. I think it even won the 00:26:54.170 --> 00:26:56.930 Spiel des Jahres. And they're sitting there in 00:26:56.930 --> 00:26:59.990 the booth saying, hey, there's 100 people now. 00:27:00.029 --> 00:27:03.490 There's 120 people, 140 people watching. And 00:27:03.490 --> 00:27:06.329 I'm hearing this and it's hard to keep. But we 00:27:06.329 --> 00:27:10.250 tried our best. And we did this for 100 episodes 00:27:10.250 --> 00:27:15.400 for like two years. The idea was not to review 00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:18.440 the games. It was to, and you use this expression 00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:22.160 all the time, unbox. I wanted to open a box up 00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:25.259 and show people the components because these 00:27:25.259 --> 00:27:28.099 Euro games are beautiful. And I wanted them to 00:27:28.099 --> 00:27:32.480 see the game, get a taste of how it played, make 00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:36.599 your own mind up. I didn't want to review it 00:27:36.599 --> 00:27:39.819 because what qualifications did I have to tell? 00:27:40.950 --> 00:27:43.410 Reiner Kanisha that he had a good game or a bad 00:27:43.410 --> 00:27:48.150 game. That's for you people to decide. So we 00:27:48.150 --> 00:27:53.670 did about 100 episodes. And as it went on, I 00:27:53.670 --> 00:27:56.509 decided the best way to do that was to bring 00:27:56.509 --> 00:28:01.109 the designer on with me and talk about his game. 00:28:01.490 --> 00:28:03.750 Why should I be talking about it? Let him describe 00:28:03.750 --> 00:28:06.970 it. So we used to have Reiner on and every time 00:28:06.970 --> 00:28:09.849 he had a new game on. He'd come over, or, well, 00:28:09.950 --> 00:28:12.750 we'd hook up, he was living in England, and we'd 00:28:12.750 --> 00:28:14.690 hook up with a picture of him on the screen, 00:28:14.829 --> 00:28:17.549 and he'd talk about his game. People seemed to 00:28:17.549 --> 00:28:21.029 like it. And then we got Alan Moon, and he did 00:28:21.029 --> 00:28:25.650 the same thing. In fact, he allowed us to, he 00:28:25.650 --> 00:28:30.609 was debuting a game called San Marco, and he 00:28:30.609 --> 00:28:33.250 said, I'm going to debut it on your show. We 00:28:33.250 --> 00:28:36.269 were thrilled. And he comes on, and he talks 00:28:36.269 --> 00:28:39.480 about the game. And I thought it was a wonderful 00:28:39.480 --> 00:28:41.619 game. In fact, I still think this was one of 00:28:41.619 --> 00:28:44.660 the great games. It was designed for three players, 00:28:44.779 --> 00:28:47.859 which was unique already. But it was basically, 00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:52.019 I'll give you a pie, you cut the pie, and I take, 00:28:52.099 --> 00:28:55.220 you make the choice. I'll cut it, you decide 00:28:55.220 --> 00:28:57.940 which half you want. It was that kind of a game. 00:28:58.519 --> 00:29:01.359 You divided your resources, and the other guy 00:29:01.359 --> 00:29:05.779 got to pick. Great mechanic. But that's... The 00:29:05.779 --> 00:29:11.440 way the show developed, one disappointment, nobody 00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:15.799 in the industry ever advertised or supported 00:29:15.799 --> 00:29:19.720 it. I was pretty disappointed that some of the 00:29:19.720 --> 00:29:24.640 companies didn't get behind it. But we did have 00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:27.740 a two -year run, and it helped the store a lot 00:29:27.740 --> 00:29:32.220 because people knew we were there then. And there 00:29:32.220 --> 00:29:35.710 were people in Scandinavia. writing us letters. 00:29:35.890 --> 00:29:38.609 And at that time, we were just opening up our 00:29:38.609 --> 00:29:42.849 online sales. So we were getting sales in England 00:29:42.849 --> 00:29:48.190 and France and Finland and Scandinavia, China, 00:29:48.569 --> 00:29:54.289 Japan, all over the world. It was really an amazing 00:29:54.289 --> 00:29:57.910 time. So you started an e -commerce platform 00:29:57.910 --> 00:30:00.910 for Games Unlimited, selling board games and 00:30:00.910 --> 00:30:04.900 game supplies in the late 90s? We were pretty 00:30:04.900 --> 00:30:07.819 much the first that went after it. And I had 00:30:07.819 --> 00:30:10.480 to learn programming because I had to design 00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:13.099 the site. And it was pretty rudimentary, but 00:30:13.099 --> 00:30:17.799 it was functional. The show fed that a good bit. 00:30:18.220 --> 00:30:21.099 And we had a lot of fun doing it. So I'm trying 00:30:21.099 --> 00:30:24.240 to get a sense of what the broader industry looked 00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:28.859 like. This is circa late 90s, early 2000s. You 00:30:28.859 --> 00:30:32.279 were getting designers on the show. They were 00:30:32.279 --> 00:30:34.539 excited to talk about their games, to talk with 00:30:34.539 --> 00:30:37.099 you. You obviously had some e -commerce, so those 00:30:37.099 --> 00:30:39.460 were feeding into each other. But the publishers 00:30:39.460 --> 00:30:43.359 weren't necessarily advertising. They weren't 00:30:43.359 --> 00:30:46.819 marketing. They weren't doing the kind of promotion. 00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:48.940 It seemed like it was mostly on the designer 00:30:48.940 --> 00:30:51.759 and on the stores to really get the word out 00:30:51.759 --> 00:30:54.720 about these games. There was a little bit of 00:30:54.720 --> 00:30:57.440 difficulty because... A lot of the designers 00:30:57.440 --> 00:30:59.940 were from Europe, and they didn't feel comfortable 00:30:59.940 --> 00:31:06.240 on the show with English. And I can think of 00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:09.700 two or three. Kramer was one, and Bruno Fiduti 00:31:09.700 --> 00:31:12.380 was another that didn't want to come on the show 00:31:12.380 --> 00:31:14.819 because they were, and I said we'd take care 00:31:14.819 --> 00:31:17.640 of them, but they were very worried because English 00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:21.839 wasn't their first language. As far as the companies, 00:31:21.980 --> 00:31:25.119 we got much better relations with designers. 00:31:26.109 --> 00:31:28.650 They always talked to me. I could always call 00:31:28.650 --> 00:31:32.549 them. But as far as the companies, it was kind 00:31:32.549 --> 00:31:35.529 of rough going. They didn't think Games Unlimited 00:31:35.529 --> 00:31:42.210 was big enough for, I know TFR and Wizards of 00:31:42.210 --> 00:31:46.029 the Coast wanted gaming in the store. And we 00:31:46.029 --> 00:31:50.450 only had 900 square feet. I couldn't do it. We 00:31:50.450 --> 00:31:53.650 couldn't game in the store. And they held that 00:31:53.650 --> 00:31:58.009 against us. Bob, we could sit here all day with 00:31:58.009 --> 00:32:03.309 you asking all sorts of questions. But I really 00:32:03.309 --> 00:32:07.369 just wanted to hear, quick and dirty, what thoughts 00:32:07.369 --> 00:32:10.650 do you have about Games Unlimited these days 00:32:10.650 --> 00:32:15.609 compared to when you ran it? What goes through 00:32:15.609 --> 00:32:18.569 your head when you walk into the store or when 00:32:18.569 --> 00:32:21.769 you think about the changes that, you know, Kylie 00:32:21.769 --> 00:32:24.170 and I and the rest of us here on staff have made? 00:32:25.230 --> 00:32:28.069 Well, first of all, I could never have done what 00:32:28.069 --> 00:32:31.509 you, well, Kylie did. I didn't have the guts 00:32:31.509 --> 00:32:34.750 to move up to Forbes Avenue, pay triple rent 00:32:34.750 --> 00:32:37.930 and hire a bunch of people and have big expenses. 00:32:38.089 --> 00:32:41.250 I didn't have that kind of confidence. I knew 00:32:41.250 --> 00:32:45.769 where I was, I could cover and make money and 00:32:45.769 --> 00:32:49.809 do fine. But I'm not sure I could have ever done 00:32:49.809 --> 00:32:53.490 what he did. And it's his enthusiasm. And believe 00:32:53.490 --> 00:32:58.180 me, it's genuine. He made it work. And he's an 00:32:58.180 --> 00:33:03.160 expert at social media. And he's an expert at 00:33:03.160 --> 00:33:08.579 things that I never could do. It was like the 00:33:08.579 --> 00:33:11.400 natural progression. I had taken it where it 00:33:11.400 --> 00:33:14.440 was. It needed somebody else to take it where 00:33:14.440 --> 00:33:17.359 it's going. And that's what you two are doing. 00:33:17.579 --> 00:33:21.519 And you kind of straddled both ends. Because 00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:25.579 you were very valuable to me. and the store from 00:33:25.579 --> 00:33:30.180 the day you walked in. It's just, it's a perfect 00:33:30.180 --> 00:33:33.079 ending as far as I'm concerned. And I see nothing 00:33:33.079 --> 00:33:37.279 but bigger things. And I'm proud to be a part 00:33:37.279 --> 00:33:42.099 of it in the conception or inception, whatever. 00:33:43.119 --> 00:33:45.900 And you're surrounded by good people. That's 00:33:45.900 --> 00:33:49.509 everything. That's everything. We always like 00:33:49.509 --> 00:33:52.509 to end every show talking about specific games, 00:33:52.650 --> 00:33:55.750 games we've played lately. And as our guest, 00:33:55.869 --> 00:33:58.309 Bob, I want to give you the honors of going first. 00:33:59.210 --> 00:34:03.109 I do a lot of game playing with Bob. You know, 00:34:03.109 --> 00:34:06.160 Bob is definitely still... a part of my life. 00:34:06.279 --> 00:34:09.699 He is the adopted grandfather to my kids and 00:34:09.699 --> 00:34:12.920 we play games a lot. He actually lives across 00:34:12.920 --> 00:34:14.840 the street from us now, so we get to see him 00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:17.539 every day and play games. And he's very much 00:34:17.539 --> 00:34:20.480 still a part of, you know, getting to retire 00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:23.480 and see what's going on in the games industry. 00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:26.539 So, Bob, what have you played lately that you've 00:34:26.539 --> 00:34:29.219 really enjoyed? Well, you're going to have to 00:34:29.219 --> 00:34:31.800 help me with names because I play so many games 00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:35.659 now. You know, you get... 30 games a week. I 00:34:35.659 --> 00:34:38.480 used to get 30 games a year. You know, it's different. 00:34:39.139 --> 00:34:41.460 But there's a game that I was playing with your 00:34:41.460 --> 00:34:44.940 youngest daughter yesterday. And it's a game 00:34:44.940 --> 00:34:47.519 where there's two pieces on the board and you 00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:52.079 put a card face up and face down. And then they 00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:54.800 have to decide which one they want. And you're 00:34:54.800 --> 00:34:58.860 trying to push them. Agent Avenue. That's what 00:34:58.860 --> 00:35:02.199 that one's called. Very similar to San Marco, 00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:03.880 which you talked about earlier, Bob. It's got 00:35:03.880 --> 00:35:06.260 that eye slice you pick. Yeah, you put the one 00:35:06.260 --> 00:35:08.599 face down, one face up. They know one of them 00:35:08.599 --> 00:35:10.539 and they have to decide, do they want to take 00:35:10.539 --> 00:35:12.239 the thing you're offering them face up or is 00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:13.940 there something better face down? Really cool. 00:35:14.539 --> 00:35:18.199 What a great game. I just, we had so much fun 00:35:18.199 --> 00:35:23.480 and it's really got a lot of strategy to it for 00:35:23.480 --> 00:35:26.619 as simple as it is. And you can play it in 15 00:35:26.619 --> 00:35:29.159 minutes. And we loved it. We played it all day. 00:35:29.940 --> 00:35:33.980 And she's very good at it. That's just the first 00:35:33.980 --> 00:35:36.500 one that comes to mind. There's plenty of others, 00:35:36.559 --> 00:35:38.739 but we'll save it. What about you, Chandra? What 00:35:38.739 --> 00:35:42.719 have you been playing? In addition to RPGs, as 00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:44.920 usual, I've been playing a bunch of smaller games. 00:35:45.539 --> 00:35:51.019 So one that pops into mind recently is CMYK is 00:35:51.019 --> 00:35:56.489 doing their Magenta Line. of re -releases of 00:35:56.489 --> 00:35:58.949 of card games that haven't been in print for 00:35:58.949 --> 00:36:04.449 a while and figment from uh wolfgang varsch um 00:36:04.449 --> 00:36:08.130 i i just got a play of in recently and that is 00:36:08.130 --> 00:36:11.630 a re -implementation of his game illusion uh 00:36:11.630 --> 00:36:14.469 and i always really liked illusion a lot and 00:36:14.469 --> 00:36:18.969 i think figment with the incredibly vibrant colors 00:36:18.969 --> 00:36:23.769 and the the nice sort of foil effects on the 00:36:23.769 --> 00:36:26.489 metallics and things like that. It's just got 00:36:26.489 --> 00:36:29.809 great table presence. Great little card game. 00:36:29.869 --> 00:36:34.469 Not suitable for people who have severe color 00:36:34.469 --> 00:36:38.469 blindness, I'll say that. Although I'd like to 00:36:38.469 --> 00:36:40.849 hear from some folks to see if maybe they picked 00:36:40.849 --> 00:36:43.250 some better color combinations this time around. 00:36:43.349 --> 00:36:46.389 But... If that's not an issue for the group that 00:36:46.389 --> 00:36:49.130 you tend to play games with, I really recommend 00:36:49.130 --> 00:36:54.530 Wolfgang Warsch's Figment as just like a fun 00:36:54.530 --> 00:36:57.030 family game or party game kind of thing. You're 00:36:57.030 --> 00:37:00.630 flipping cards that have all sorts of crazy patterns 00:37:00.630 --> 00:37:04.269 on them, trying to figure out which cards in 00:37:04.269 --> 00:37:08.210 the row have the most of a given color. And it 00:37:08.210 --> 00:37:11.170 is, even for someone like me who's really good 00:37:11.170 --> 00:37:14.280 with colors, it is... very, very difficult because 00:37:14.280 --> 00:37:16.559 of the patterns, because of the way the colors 00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:19.280 are split up on the cards. It's just a good, 00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:24.000 fun, quick kind of game that tests skills that 00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:27.619 a lot of games don't. So just something nice 00:37:27.619 --> 00:37:30.739 and different. The game I've really been enjoying 00:37:30.739 --> 00:37:33.800 lately really came out of nowhere for me. I had 00:37:33.800 --> 00:37:35.800 not heard of this game, hadn't seen it marketed, 00:37:35.960 --> 00:37:40.339 but we got a kind of like a little promo. pseudo 00:37:40.339 --> 00:37:43.260 demo, a not complete version just to try out 00:37:43.260 --> 00:37:46.599 of a game called Take Time. And this was sent 00:37:46.599 --> 00:37:48.699 to us unsolicited. We get stuff like this from 00:37:48.699 --> 00:37:50.659 time to time. Usually I don't pay much attention 00:37:50.659 --> 00:37:52.780 because there's a lot of games to look at. But 00:37:52.780 --> 00:37:54.900 this one, the brief description caught my eye 00:37:54.900 --> 00:37:57.780 because it's a cooperative game in the vein of 00:37:57.780 --> 00:38:01.239 games where everyone's got some information and 00:38:01.239 --> 00:38:03.380 you have to all play the cards in a way that 00:38:03.380 --> 00:38:05.300 you all work together and win the game. In this 00:38:05.300 --> 00:38:07.739 case, everyone's got cards with numbers on them. 00:38:08.039 --> 00:38:10.320 And you have to play these numbers around a clock 00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:14.139 face in a very specific order. So it's 12 cards 00:38:14.139 --> 00:38:15.280 that are dealt out. It's a two to four player 00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:17.579 game. And you're going to deal the cards out 00:38:17.579 --> 00:38:19.380 evenly. So in a four player game, everyone's 00:38:19.380 --> 00:38:21.780 got three cards. These cards are numbered one 00:38:21.780 --> 00:38:25.179 to 12. And there are like day cards and night 00:38:25.179 --> 00:38:28.480 cards, one to 12 for each color. So that's important 00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:31.719 information because if I say, if I've got the 00:38:31.719 --> 00:38:34.400 white 12 or I've played the white 12 face down. 00:38:34.829 --> 00:38:36.710 and someone else only has white cards in their 00:38:36.710 --> 00:38:39.329 hand, I can tell from the back, then I know they 00:38:39.329 --> 00:38:42.610 don't have a 12. Now, what we have to do, the 00:38:42.610 --> 00:38:45.110 basic idea is there's six sections of the clock, 00:38:45.190 --> 00:38:47.010 and we're going to have to play all 12 of our 00:38:47.010 --> 00:38:49.269 cards face down without talking to each other 00:38:49.269 --> 00:38:51.969 and place them such that the first section of 00:38:51.969 --> 00:38:54.309 the clock has the lowest number total. Once we've 00:38:54.309 --> 00:38:56.250 played all the cards, and every section has got 00:38:56.250 --> 00:38:58.230 to have at least one card, once we've played 00:38:58.230 --> 00:39:00.530 them all, we're going to flip it face up and 00:39:00.530 --> 00:39:03.440 add up the totals. The first section has the 00:39:03.440 --> 00:39:06.340 lowest and every section after that has to be 00:39:06.340 --> 00:39:09.519 equal to or higher in total number. And that 00:39:09.519 --> 00:39:13.420 last section of the clock cannot exceed 24. So 00:39:13.420 --> 00:39:15.599 depending on the cards that people are dealt, 00:39:15.820 --> 00:39:18.059 you know, the half of the deck is dealt out amongst 00:39:18.059 --> 00:39:19.400 the players. You don't know what numbers people 00:39:19.400 --> 00:39:21.480 have, but you've got to play these cards down 00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:25.320 and you're not allowed to talk, but you can play 00:39:25.320 --> 00:39:28.380 a certain number of cards face up based on number 00:39:28.380 --> 00:39:30.000 of players. Four players, you can play four cards 00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:32.800 face up. So if I'm, you know, for whatever reason, 00:39:32.840 --> 00:39:36.139 playing a 12, maybe down in the middle of it 00:39:36.139 --> 00:39:37.639 where we wouldn't expect it to be, maybe I want 00:39:37.639 --> 00:39:39.400 to play that face up so other players know, ooh, 00:39:39.500 --> 00:39:41.219 there's a big number there. I don't want to place 00:39:41.219 --> 00:39:44.099 too much. Or that last section that can't exceed 00:39:44.099 --> 00:39:46.739 24. If you're playing stuff there, maybe you 00:39:46.739 --> 00:39:48.739 want to play that face up so we know where we 00:39:48.739 --> 00:39:52.019 can do it. Just a lot of that cool, subtle communication. 00:39:52.760 --> 00:39:55.139 And the demo had four different maps on it because 00:39:55.139 --> 00:39:57.260 each clock's going to change it up in some ways. 00:39:57.340 --> 00:39:59.619 So that's the basics, what I described to you. 00:40:00.670 --> 00:40:03.750 Maybe on this clock, the very first card played 00:40:03.750 --> 00:40:05.789 has to be played in this very specific section, 00:40:05.969 --> 00:40:07.869 right? So who goes first has a very important 00:40:07.869 --> 00:40:11.070 decision to make. Or maybe this section has to 00:40:11.070 --> 00:40:13.170 have exactly three cards in it, no more, no less. 00:40:13.349 --> 00:40:15.849 Or maybe a section has to have the lowest black 00:40:15.849 --> 00:40:18.230 card played total has to be in that section. 00:40:18.489 --> 00:40:21.190 So I think there's 40 something different clocks 00:40:21.190 --> 00:40:23.789 in the game. So as you just go through, you get 00:40:23.789 --> 00:40:26.130 different challenges. Been loving it with my 00:40:26.130 --> 00:40:27.909 kids. They want to play it all the time. And 00:40:27.909 --> 00:40:30.469 I just like that kind of... communication game. 00:40:30.610 --> 00:40:33.230 So I was really excited to try out Take Time, 00:40:33.349 --> 00:40:34.610 and I'm looking forward to playing more of that 00:40:34.610 --> 00:40:37.150 one. Well, I think that's going to do it for 00:40:37.150 --> 00:40:40.090 this episode of the Unbox Some Funcast. Bob, 00:40:40.349 --> 00:40:43.030 I want to thank you so much for coming on and 00:40:43.030 --> 00:40:44.869 talking a little bit about the history of Games 00:40:44.869 --> 00:40:47.409 Unlimited. We just barely scratched the surface. 00:40:47.610 --> 00:40:49.570 I know Tonda and I have both said we can't wait 00:40:49.570 --> 00:40:52.349 to have you on multiple times. So we will definitely 00:40:52.349 --> 00:40:54.030 do this again because I know you got some more 00:40:54.030 --> 00:40:56.449 stories about how the games industry used to 00:40:56.449 --> 00:40:58.869 be, how it's changed over the years and so on. 00:40:58.929 --> 00:41:01.710 So really, really thank you for coming on. I 00:41:01.710 --> 00:41:04.590 had a great time talking about the old days. 00:41:05.250 --> 00:41:08.889 As much as I enjoy what you're doing now, I forgot 00:41:08.889 --> 00:41:11.489 a lot of these things. Everything you said almost 00:41:11.489 --> 00:41:14.989 invited another story. It was really interesting. 00:41:15.610 --> 00:41:18.550 Next time, we're going to do a scripted, more 00:41:18.550 --> 00:41:22.030 scripted episode about really our tagline, what 00:41:22.030 --> 00:41:24.849 it means to be on the front lines of the games 00:41:24.849 --> 00:41:28.550 industry. Working in a retail store, slinging 00:41:28.550 --> 00:41:31.750 games day in and day out is really like what 00:41:31.750 --> 00:41:34.449 value we think we bring to the industry as a 00:41:34.449 --> 00:41:37.210 whole and how it's different from being a publisher 00:41:37.210 --> 00:41:40.170 or a designer or even working at a con. So until 00:41:40.170 --> 00:41:43.489 then, I am Kylie at Games Unlimited. And I'm 00:41:43.489 --> 00:41:46.269 Chandra, also here at Games Unlimited. And it's 00:41:46.269 --> 00:41:48.090 time for you to go unbox some fun.