Are you listening Well, hey, are you listening?
This is a podcast exploring the past, present
and future of Christian music. My name is Joel,
and I'm here with my good friend, Brandon. We
connected over a mutual love of some particular
artists, but also have kind of different tastes
from each other. And so we get to expose each
other to new stuff while inviting some friends
along for the ride. Brandon, you have a friend
who is here with us today. So this friend, his
name is Zach. and we met in college. I wrote
down Zach's passions, or some of these are, is
helping people, music, and bow jangles. Zach,
if you'd like to explain to people that might
not be familiar with the bow jangles, because
Zach actually lives out in California, so I feel
like you often have to explain to people what
a bow jangle is. So, for those listening outside
of the Southeast, a Bojangles is perhaps one
of the better, if not the best chicken place
that I have ever been to. A classic. If you've
lived in the South for long enough, you've known,
like, my granddaddy goes to that Bojangles and
sits with his boys, you know, three mornings
out of the week, gets a black cup of coffee and
a... and a chicken biscuit and calls it a day.
I love that because I feel like Bojangles doesn't
get enough respect in South Carolina for whatever
reason. I used to live in North Carolina and
in North Carolina everybody is obsessed with
Bojangles. It's like the place to be. The drive
-through lines are always insane and so we grew
to love it. uh, because we moved from Mississippi,
we grew to Levitt and then moved from North Carolina
to South Carolina and there's Bojangles, but
like people like aren't, it's not like a big
deal and I'm like, what's wrong with you people?
It is good stuff. But yeah, we're super excited
to have you on Zach. So thank you so much for
joining us today. Of course. Is there anything
that we need to know about you guys and your,
um, How do you know each other? Like, give us
some background info. So yeah, we met in like
a... I think it was a theater production, like
our friend Ariel was doing. Either that or Improv,
one of those two. Yeah, I think it was Improv
first and then Ariel caught me for the production,
but... And the earliest memory I have of Zack
is we found out we both love Bojangles. And so
I'm like, I still have these. For whatever reason,
when we had downtime, I would just go film these
little shorts of Zack coming from inside a small...
hidden closet or him like turning around the
corner and i'd be like sir do you know what time
it is and he would just say bow time so that
was always just the joke is that whatever i asked
him he would just be like bow time but and we
thought it was hilarious and now that i say it
out loud it kind of sounds weird or strange but
um i think we have a real missed opportunity
we could be eating bojangles while we record
this episode right now yeah i i think so yeah
think about that i should have reached out to
them make for a really nice soundscape on the
podcast i um i think this was when we were talking
about sharing a story because before we recorded
zakat brought up um there's been a lot of times
where i'll just say something like random and
i'll just like joke with people and see oh i
wonder if they believe this and usually i'm pretty
good at saying like Oh, that was a lie. Like
one time I told someone at Charleston Southern
that the entire college was underwater for 100
years. But then when the water when the great
flood receded, like everything was still intact.
And they believed me. And I was like, no, no,
I'm just I'm messing with you. But there was
one time that Zach came to visit our apartment.
And I made a comment to him about like, oh, don't
use the bathroom after 11 o 'clock. because the
way the pipes run, it'll run through our friend
Andrew's bedroom and wake him up. And so now
the way this apartment was set up, I thought
that like Zach would, I guess like Zach would
put it together, it was nonsense because the
bathroom, it like would have had to run like
up the wall through the wall. Like it would not
have made sense for the pipes to run here. So
I didn't think anything of it. I thought, okay,
Zach might like laugh, but he'll realize it.
Fast forward eventually Zach's moves in like
once me once I got married another friend got
married Zach moved into the apartment Yeah, and
I don't know how how long did it was it that
you believe for this? It might have been two
two or three months And so Zach was living in
this apartment and he truly believed lit I have
to get everything done like by 11 o 'clock because
I don't want to mess with our friend Andrew and
mess up his sleep. And so when I found out about
that, I felt so bad. I think even like Andrew
was like, why are you doing that? That's weird.
And so not only did Zach like have believed the
absurd lie of mine, but then he was judged by
other people for trying to be a good person.
And that's the story of Zach's college life.
It's almost like there's consequences for our
words. It is true. This actually is just an intervention.
We're not here to discuss an album. That's great.
That's great. Well, Zach, we're pumped to have
you here and I'm excited to get to spend some
time getting to know you as we chat through this.
So today, We are listening to an album that Zach
brings to us As one of his favorites the album
ending is beginning by the band down here So
I'm excited to get into that in just a little
bit But before we do that, let's talk a little
bit about what's in the news All right. So I
have a little bit of a journey for us to go on
today for our news segment. Usually when we talk
about what's in the news, we're talking about
things that are actually happening in the world
of Christian music. But today I want to spend
some time talking about things that aren't happening
in the world of Christian music. We're going
to talk about fake news. And I know fake news
is like a political like whatever But I was shocked
over the last week to discover that there is
a lot of Christian music fake news out there
on the internet. Did you know about this? I didn't
know about until you told me about it. I like
so I think what happened is I saw an article
that I immediately was like started reading it
and then I'm like That can't be true. And I clicked
on it, which took me like deeper and gave me
more. But then once you do something like that,
your whole like newsfeed starts filling up with
those kinds of things. And so now my whole Facebook
feed is just like Christian music, fake news.
And so I wanted to like give you guys some of
it just to get your reaction to it and, um, and
see what you think. Basically what's happening
is there. It's like AI written stuff that's out
there, articles about news about particular artists.
And then you have hundreds or thousands of comments
on these things from Christians who can't like
discern that what's happening is not actually
real. They believe that it's real. So I was going
to give you some. So there's this one Facebook
page called Made To Move, and I feel like this
one, Brandon, is just so up your alley. You need
to go click follow on this page because the whole
page is about Toby Mac. I want to say real fast.
I don't like that I just told a story about like
lying and making up ridiculous stuff. And now
we're talking about people who are bad. Well,
I wonder Brandon if maybe you're the one that's
behind this Toby Mac fake news page Me and Zach
have been peddling fake Chris. That's how we
make our pay for our rent Here's what I think's
fascinating about this So if you go to this page
made to move on Facebook, which you can go pull
it up right now It's the intro of it says where
faith doesn't stand still and hope gets loud
Inspired by uplifting music bold belief and a
life in motion We're made to move forward, live
with purpose and shine light every day." So you're
like, okay, that sounds like whatever. There's
an actual address on here. I'm just going to
say it. 178 Trouser Leg Road, Gobbles, Michigan.
There's a phone number. What's his address again?
Phone number is four one three eight seven five
three three one four. I mean they're putting
it out there I'm not afraid to put it out there
either So I'm just gonna give you some examples
of headlines off of this page, okay This is the
first one that's on the page The cameras flashed
awaiting the signature swagger of a Christian
music icon launching a massive new tour Um, so
this is about Toby Mag launching a new tour and
there's like AI pictures. Um, it's pretty funny
because they don't even match what the, uh, what
it's really about. Um, even though supposedly
he's giving away, according to this, every single
cent of his tour earnings, um, to build recovery
centers and shelters. So I guess that's what
some of the pictures are, but the pictures that
they show for these news articles are clearly
like not Toby Mac. You can tell they're AI pictures.
So I don't even know who that this one is about.
I'm going to skip past that one. Let me, let
me find, let me find a good one. All right. The
final drop. Tonight in Nashville, the air feels
different, heavier, yet electric with memory.
Under the glare of the spotlights, Toby Mack
steps onto the stage and the roar of the crowd
shifts instantly from excitement to a deep, reverent
hush. This isn't just a concert. It's the end
of an era. Apparently, Toby Mack's quitting.
That's what that one is about. Then you have
Netflix drops. Toby Mack, The Untold Story. the
raw documentary that will change how you see
the Christian legend forever. That's not real.
Breaking news, Toby Mack hits deep world tour.
Twenty twenty six just dropped thirty five dates
across North America, Europe and Australia. Here's
what you have to notice about this. They'll simultaneously
run an article saying that he's quitting music
and then run an article about a new tour that
he's launching. So they're contradicting each
other. This tour. um this tour there's buzzer
buzzing rumors that lecrae or former dc talk
bandmates may join um then you've got toby mack
and forest frank announce final farewell tour
40 cities legendary guests and goodbye and a
goodbye christian music will never forget um
then the different tour toby mack's going global
the mission is far from over Far from over. He's
not quitting picture. That's definitely not him
Then the silence has been broken by poor four
powerful words. I'm not done yet. So he's still
going Netflix again a different Toby Mack documentary.
This one's called the beat that never fades So
there's two different Toby Mack documentaries
hitting Then you've got the day the music stopped.
Toby Mack silences the view with a sermon they
didn't ask for. There you go. Toby Mack walked
onto the view set with the humble swagger of
a man who has played thousands of arenas waving
to the crowd. No one expected that just minutes
later, the peace and love vibe would turn into
a spiritual battlefield. No script anticipated
it. No control room could stop it. In the moment,
Whoopi Goldberg slammed her hand on the desk
and shouted, We need to cut to commercial. Stop
the preaching. The line had already been crossed.
The PAX studio instantly turned into a pressure
cooker. Every camera locked onto Toby Mack, no
longer just a Christian music icon there to promote
a tour, but a believer refusing to water down
his message live on air. Toby adjusted his cap.
No shouting. No theatrics, just the grounded,
passionate calm of a man who has weathered loss
of a son and spent 30 years championing a message.
The world often mocks. Listen to me. Whoopie.
Toby said his voice steady, but carrying the
weight of a revival tent. You don't get to invite
me here. Praise my positive vibes. And then immediately
try to censor the name that gives me that joy.
You want the fruit, but you hate the root studio.
I can't keep going anyways. Toby Mac hasn't been
on the view, at least as of late. The next one
is Toby Mac is recovering from surgery. So this
page is just on and on multiple times a day,
releasing new news articles about Toby Mac. And
what I think is fascinating about this, I'd love
to get y 'all's take on this, is that somebody
is getting AI to write stories about Toby Mac.
There's also a ton of pages about like Brandon
Lake They're getting AI to write these stories
that I think people want to hear About artists
the kinds of things that they think are gonna
get a lot of likes and a lot of comments But
but they're completely like not true at all And
so what does it mean when we're creating a narrative?
about somebody that fuels something that we would
think is a positive message or an agenda, but
yet it's all based in lies. What's happening?
I wanted to say, while Zach collects his thoughts,
so when you type in that address, it takes you
to a place called Larry's Pub in Gobbles, Michigan,
but then you search Larry's Pub and it brings
you to a Facebook that it says you have no access.
We're going down this rabbit hole now. Does this
place exist? Does Larry's pub exist? If you live
in Gobbles, Michigan Let us know hang on hang
on. I don't know. What are what are your thoughts
on that Zach? I mean I think as As an artist
it would be a little like I mean kind of disheartening
Because I assume you're trying to build something,
you're trying to put yourself out there, and
you don't need this mythologizing of yourself.
It's like, no, I know what I do, I know how I
perform, I know how I write. I don't need you
being like, oh, I told off Whoopi Goldberg, or
I'm playing 18 ,000 cities in the next six months.
Like, it's, I think it's a little insulting,
honestly. Yeah, I think, me and Zach talk about
this a lot, that people want to stay in their
own groups, and I feel like it's weird because
people almost want this to be a, like, you look
at someone like Toby Mack, and you can love his
music and be like, man, he helps people. He does
all this stuff. But for some reason, if you throw
out that, like, oh, you know that he goes to,
like, a Southern Baptist church, when all of
a sudden there's people that are like, oh, wait,
he's one of those? Or if he was to say, yeah,
I voted independent, it's, oh, so you're... and
it's this weird thing of, like, so you think
and that, like, sways it. And even in that example,
you read and you're like, does that sound like
something Toby would say, like, from the real
interviews you can look? But also, secondly,
it's like... it's almost this weird, like, we're
plotting that, but if that really happened, you'd
be like, that's not, like, it's not a very good
thing, where it's almost like, we don't want
those people at church, or we don't want, like,
you're too far gone, because you, because even
in that one, it's like, no point of it does it
say that it claims that Whoopi Goldberg was like,
well, God doesn't exist, or like, you're an idiot.
It turns into this, like, thing of, oh, well,
Toby Toby said something and Whoopi was like,
cut the commercial. And I don't it. To me, it's
just sad, too, that there's so much stuff that
people like they don't research. And I remember
I was always told that when something happens,
like this person was like, I go to like a like
three different outlets. And she used the example
of going to something that's right, left and
then whatever. So she had press and she was like,
whatever you see is in all of those. You know,
that's true. So it's like there was a plane crash
or whatever. and then the other stuff is speculation
of well this was the cause or the this witness
said that they heard this or whatever and I think
that people it's just sad that when you see people
reading that and it's not like did that happen
or you know like to me I would go to YouTube
and pull up let me look at this clip but it's
like yeah you see that doesn't happen and I feel
like it's just sad that like um like social media
has become so weaponized that that's what it's
being used for is like how can we you know and
on the opposite i think about the people that
stop being a toby mack fan because they think
that he's out there starting feuds with whoopi
goldberg which sounds like a mad lib and then
toby mack yelled at whoopi goldberg yeah i there's
definitely an agenda that's like Being fueled
by this and I would hate as an artist For anybody
to take me in my name and try and like fuel their
agenda in that way And I honestly I'm sure that
whoever put this together probably is a Toby
Mac fan Yeah, and probably enjoys his music a
lot But it's kind of like what we do. I'm gonna
get a little Christian for a minute. It's kind
of like what we do a lot of times in kind of
creating God in our image and in our agendas
that we believe that we can speak for what God
wants or what God can say. But yeah, we're doing
that with like artists that we revere or whatever.
I'm just saying, I know Toby would do this. And
so I'm just going to create a fake news article
about the fact that he did this. Just I'm so
troubled by this on so many levels not only from
misrepresenting people and Blatantly like this
is a lie. This is a breaking of the Ten Commandments.
And so that's problematic But also just for the
amount of people that read this and just believe
that it happened and believe that it's true And
we've got to become more discerning as a Christian
culture of the things that we read and see. In
a world of AI, there's no room for us just automatically
believing something that we read on social media
anymore. We've got to be willing to do the research
and check it out and decide what it is. Yeah,
I don't know. This this bothers me a lot, especially
since I was able to see how much of this there
is out there. And a lot of it seems really similar.
I think Chad GPT is like, really working hard
for some of these people. Writing a lot of this
kind of stuff. And a lot of it seems kind of
plug and play that it's like the same story.
Yeah, but we're gonna this this time it's going
to be Toby Mack next time it's gonna be Brandon
Lake, whatever it may be. So yeah. Yeah, I don't
know any more thoughts you guys have I think
that's I'm good Interesting stuff out there.
Anyways on that not really sure. So Alright,
well we are going to move on to a game. So let's
play Yeah, so this week it was kind of inspired
by the album We are gonna dive into in a little
bit is that you know, I caught myself a few times
thinking Man, like what what genre would I say?
This is like this one song feels like this this
other song feels like that So it kind of really
made me start thinking like what what defines
a genre like how do you describe? This to someone
so what I decided to do Was take one of our biggest
passions. I think everyone this table is fast
food restaurants And so we're gonna i'm gonna
give you a restaurant and you're gonna give me
what music genre Fits that restaurant Okay Okay.
All right. All right. So first off chick -fil
-a I mean I think I would with Chick -fil -A
probably just say CCM. Like contemporary Christian
music. Or maybe worship music. I don't know.
Like it's done well, but it's pretty clean cut.
Like not very edgy. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah.
I think you hit it on the head with like worship
music. Like it feels very polished. I think like
it it feels very I don't want to say paint by
numbers, but a very like ordered in a way Definitely
worship and I do love chick -fil -a. So just
be real about that I put ccm too. Maybe it's
like a steve chris chapman if you like you just
throw on some Got to be true or whatever a great
adventure. Oh, yeah, uh, next one is mcdonald's
Can tell you what I put down, but I feel like
it's not a gonna be a popular comment Go for
it. Tell me I put down classic rock It's been
around forever, but is it really that good like
I don't know every so often maybe McGriddle is
good, but Yes, Zach, do you have an idea on that
one? My knee -jerk reaction is to say just mainstream
pop. It's always there. You've always got something.
Generally, it's not always the best, but it's
there and you see it a lot. That's what I'm going
with. Actually, I think that's the thing that
popped in my head the first time too is just
there's... pop music always exists sometimes
sometimes it's better than others when you go
and listen like half the time the ice cream machine
is going to be broken and so it's like not going
to do it for you and you're going to be mad that
you pulled it up to begin with yeah i think that
feels right all right subway eat fresh I put
lo -fi I feel like it's just kind of like You
never really think about it, but like it's it's
everywhere and I feel like it just It does what
it's supposed to do Yeah, I would I would I think
I would agree with that just some kind of like
instrumental Peaceful like maybe piano instrumental
music Sack has someone who plays the piano. How
how do you feel about like? Do you agree or disagree
with Subway being likened to a piano? I really,
I really disagree. As someone who has spent the
last 20 years playing piano, I'm like, I've never
sat down and like, man, this feels like a turkey
club. I think I would put Subway in the category
of like elevator music. Yeah. Just like. Like
I don't have. I don't have high, uh, high marks
for Subway. So I'm like, it's, it's just, it's
like, if you need to eat something, I guess,
like it's, it's food. If you need to listen to
something, it's like, and they're in the elevator
with you. It's, it's It's a thing. I guess that's
why Zach was never asked to be the spokesman
for subway So that they just hear it's food.
I guess if you need to eat I think I was thinking
somewhere between the two of you. Uh -huh like
lo -fi Instrumental. Yeah. Yeah. We've got a
couple more. What about sonic drive -ins? I put
alternative rock Because I feel like their menus
just like you've got a hot dog over here. You've
got a deep fried Oreo. Then you've got people
making like apple juice milkshakes. Like it's
really just anything you need. I think I think
I'd put it in like the grunge category. I think
we're all on the same page here. It does kind
of feel like the let's get a little quirky and
do something that's alternative to the mainstream.
But most of the time With like pretty good success.
Um, I like sonic Uh, what about waffle house?
Waffle house is bluegrass. I will I will take
no questions I definitely thought country country
music was the thing that popped in my head. Yeah
Um, I don't know why maybe it's because if you
go play any of the actual waffle house songs
Off of the jukebox and Waffle House, they're
like all country music. What was that one that
Jared tried to play a while back? It was like
Steve's oil or something. Oily pan. I don't know.
There's some really interesting songs on the
Waffle House jukebox. There used to be one called
99 ,000 ways to eat a hamburger at Waffle House.
Classic. Our final one, Bojangles. I knew this
was coming I feel like what I'm thinking is like
I don't know like if it's like Maybe like pop
punk or something like it's not for everyone,
but I feel like the people that love it like
love it I I would go so far as to say like I
Think I'm kind of with where you were with McDonald's
like I'm thinking like classic rock. Like it's
always there. It's always good. It's just classic
nostalgic chicken. It's always good. You heard
what he said? I think I would go with like Americana,
like roots rock. Yeah, like this, it's not country
music, but it feels. Okay, feels rootsy. It feels
like America like when you're listening to it
and it just feels right, you know Well, there
you go Bojangles. We've we fit you into two segments
already. So Those executives are listening Where's
the sponsorship? Yeah All right. Well, there
we go. That's awesome. All right, it's time to
check what's in the mail All right, we have a
new segment Brandon where we check the mail and
I think that you have some mail for us Yeah,
we have something from this person named Gina
Lorick That name sounds familiar because yeah,
it's my mom Gotcha So we're still at the stage
of our podcast where our moms are the ones that
are writing in I'll say that my mom she has whenever
I have uh dove into anything she's been super
supportive but like she's also like she'll give
a fair like assessment like she's not she's not
one of those people that's just like oh all those
things are amazing it'll be i don't know that
i don't agree with that episode or like why'd
you throw in that shade at like toby or whatever
so i don't think your mom has left us a review
yet online so i think she's waiting for us to
do a toby mack or third day review that's what
she's waiting for so um she asked who has been
your top three artists or groups that you have
seen live and who have you not seen current or
past that you would like to see live okay um
yeah so top three i think that i've seen live
that i'll go with One would be my favorite band,
not a Christian band, but my favorite band, Wilco.
I've seen Wilco probably, I don't know how many
times, eight times, and they're just phenomenal.
They put on an incredible, incredible show. Um,
so we'll go, um, number two, I'd probably have
to go Sufjan Stevens. Um, I've only seen him
two or three, three times. Um, but it's been
an incredible show every time. Just kind of one
of those life -changing moments. And then number
three, I'm going to go the killers. Um, so this
would be my top three concert live experiences.
Zach, do you, or who would you like to see? Do
you have an answer for that one? That I haven't
seen? Yeah. Yeah. It would probably be a tie
between Arcade Fire and Radiohead. Okay. Yeah.
So. Do you have any thoughts on that question?
You know, I have not always been the... Haven't
been drawn to live music a lot. I'm more of a
studio album kind of guy But I have seen Casting
Crowns was really good live I've seen a lot of
like Broadway off -broadway musicals live which
blow the albums out of the water obviously I
think I saw It all it is is Broadway musicals
or guys. I saw winter jams Well, if you I guess
thinking about that like if you Like is there
a Broadway show or like an artist like either
one that right now if we just said guess what
Zack We got you tickets to this that you would
be like thrilled to see Mmm Gosh it really is
just a grab bag like I've got like 10 or 12 musicals,
and I'm like, oh yeah, it'd be cool to see that,
it'd be cool to see that. Gosh. I'm drawing a
blank, man. I'm sorry. I'm going to get a text
tonight from Zach, like the one in the morning
that's like, okay, I figured it out. We'll edit
it and post it. Yeah. Just throw in like, blank.
I would love to see Insert whatever ticket master
that'll be our next sponsor is just ticket master.
Yeah I the ones that come to mind of what I've
seen is Me without you just because that the
audit the crowd is so like Studied maybe is the
best way to put it that it's just I remember
the first time I saw them. I thought man all
these people don't know what weird music is about
to be played and then I realized that everyone
else in the room knew like the entire catalog
that's what that's what they're there for Brandon
yeah yeah I would say if I mind I was just thinking
like they don't know what they're signing up
for but um it like so it's just it's just so
cool when you go to a show and you don't see
people like on your cell phone or you don't see
people there just because like their girlfriend
you know dragged them there or whatever um so
I'd go me without you um I think Toby Mack from
the standpoint of just like it's a full production
and usually like I prefer just seeing someone
in like a 500 person place where it's just the
instruments and the people but with Toby he's
one of the people that it's just like there's
so much effort that goes into like putting on
a show and um like you can just tell that he's
like you paid your money. Like, I don't want
anyone leaving here thinking that. So, Me Without
You, Toby Mac, and then, um, there's a lot of
other ones like Family Force 5. I think what
stands out to me is, um, I have seen The Last
Bison a few times, and the last time I saw them
live, it was in this, like, little, like, bar
slash, like, concert venue, and there was maybe
maybe like 20 people there for the show. So,
like, by all accounts, it's kind of like, it's
sad, it's like, oh, this is whatever, but you
would never think, you would think that they're
playing an arena full of 20 ,000 people. Like,
just the, it was the same show, it was the same
energy, and it just stood out to me that here
these people have, you know, this super poor
turnout, but they're providing a show like they
would for you know, like the biggest crowd out
here. I think people I want to see, you know,
of course John Rubin is always going to be like
the number one answer. I think outside of that,
like probably the top person in like the non
-Christian genre would maybe be like Regina Spector.
She just always like, I just grew up growing
up, and this is someone who took piano lesson
for years. I thought piano was the most boring
instrument. And the first time that I heard her,
like her music is very piano driven. She's kind
of the first artist that I'm like, oh you can
do that with a piano? Like I didn't know that
you could produce this kind of music, you know?
And so like I've always thought that that would
be a cool concert to go to just because it is
just like a person here telling stories with
a piano. So that's cool. I'm sticking to that
answer. All right. I love it. I did remember
a show that I'd love to shout out. Me and my
wife went to visit our family out in Arkansas
this past September, and we went up to Branson
and saw a Sight and Sound musical, David, and
it was absolutely phenomenal. I would highly
suggest anything out of Sight and Sound. They
do incredible work up there. Yeah, i've heard
that that's awesome. That's awesome All right.
Well, let's take a second and just talk about
what we've been listening to lately What have
you guys what have you guys been listening to?
Um For me it's like it's like still waiting for
like new stuff to hit, you know, we talk about
that. It's like, um It's usually february march
stuff new stuff hits. Um man, I'm trying to think
I mean this week a lot of it was just listening
to like going through like down here stuff and
I'm trying to think I'm trying to think of something
new colony house. They had a new single that
came out. So I've been listening to that That
the second half of that EP drops second week
in February So I think right now I'm pretty I'm
pretty pumped up to see kind of what what direction
that goes um so yeah i'm pretty i'm pretty pumped
up for that so it's supposed to be different
or like part one it's all all i know is it's
part two so i don't i don't think i don't think
necessarily there's this like oh this part is
about right you know because even the other one
comes just a mix up of songs um so they've released
some of the stuff now and um I mean like I've
enjoyed it kind of sounds a lot like part one
But like I've enjoyed it so far. So cool Sounds
good sack. What about you? I can't really think
of any albums off the top of my head, but I have
been listening to a lot of Dom Farrah It's like
a super indie artist makes really good like kind
of 80s inspired music and steam -powered giraffe
Uh, is a really good band that I've, I've started
going like kind of deeper into their catalog.
Uh, they're, they're really cool. Highly suggest.
This sound like things that I would like to listen
to. So I'll definitely have to check them out.
Um, yeah, I think my, so I'm with you Brandon
a little bit and that nothing new has been hitting.
So I haven't really had anything to talk about
that's new. Um, but. My kids have a movie that
they watch over and over all the time. Um, it's
a little, little flick called a walk to remember.
Um, and if you've ever seen it, like switch foot
is half of the, um, soundtrack to that movie.
Um, because apparently Mandy Moore was going
through a switch foot phase or something. And
so, um, and she actually sings a switch fit song
in the movie, only hope off their second record.
Um, and it's like, it is the crescendo of the
whole film, her singing the song. And so my kids
like love that song. And then, so we're like
in the car and I just like turn on the switch
fit version of it. And they're like, Oh, this
is blah, blah, blah. I'll like play other switch
fit songs from. that are on the soundtrack to
the movie and they're like, Oh, I love this song.
Oh, this song is great. And then I'm like, all
right, this is a prime opportunity for me to
get my kids into switch foot. And so I've just
been playing like, especially the early stuff
that a lot of that soundtrack is from. And so
one that I pulled the vinyl out and I've just
kind of had it going constantly is their second
record that only hope is off of new way to be
human. Yeah. And so we've just spent a lot of
time listening to that lately and I love that
album. Um, I love it. Love it. So, um, yeah,
it's been really good. It's, it's early quirky,
but really good switch fit. So, yeah, yeah, it's
a lot of fun. All right. Well, let's transition
and get into the thing that we're all here to
talk about. And that is ending is beginning by
down here. Well, I'll give us a little info on
this record. So Ending is Beginning is the fifth
official album release from Christian Rock Band
down here. It was released on September 23rd,
2008. In May 2008, fans played a part in selecting
the songs chosen for the album by rating and
scoring 17 potential songs on audioscorecard
.com. Christianity Today gave this album five
stars and Jesus Freak Hideout gave it four and
a half stars. It's a pretty well respected record
in the Christian music world. So just opening
thoughts for this. Zach, I think you are the
one that's coming to this with more background
than either Brandon or I. So we'd love to hear
from you first. Like, how did this album come
across your plate? And how did you get exposed
to this band? So a little background on me is
that I've kind of always grown up in church,
but the church that I grew up in was like really
super like, oh, it's it's the blueback hymnal,
like like it's just very ccm wasn't a big part
of things growing up right um until until i got
into like our youth group about like i would
have been like 13 or 14 by the time this released
and this album was the very first ccm uh cd that
i ever got like it was my first exposure to the
genre basically and I mean, I fell in love with
it. Like it was something that I would put in,
and this is back when I had a little like seedy
walk man that I would carry around and just have
it running and have it playing. And I don't know,
it's definitely like, it was the beginning of
me like looking at other genres basically, especially
as genres that like tied faith into it, which
was really interesting. That's cool Brandon,
what's what's your exposure to this? I So when
Zach first told me I Did this thing where I got
mixed up with like four different bands? And
I think that I only knew it from like how many
Kings Because I don't know I don't know if we
play it here or if it was some or feels another
church I was at that I remember that being played
and that was the only um like like exam or i
guess like experience i had with them going into
it so it was kind of that classic moment of zach
saying we should do this one and me thinking
oh man i hope this isn't one of those like um
yeah i so i used to work at um i'll back when
they existed a life way um, Christian bookstore.
And this would have been around around the time
that down here was releasing records. Um, but
I, I ran our music department even. And so I
had to be like, sort of aware of like all Christian
music so that I could give people recommendations
and And so I think I knew enough of about down
here to be able to like recommend them to someone
if they came asking about certain things. Um,
but I never really took the time to listen to
anything. Um, honestly, it wasn't until after
they broke up, I'm assuming they're technically
broken up. I think so. Um, it wasn't until after
that happened that I got exposed to Mark Martell,
who was one of their two singers and I think
I came across him online singing covers of Queen
songs which if you listen to him sing on this
album you know why because he has a very Freddie
Mercury voice in fact he now pretty much full
-time tours with a Queen cover band and they
actually played in Charleston a couple of months
ago. But also, when the movie Bohemian Rhapsody
came out, Mark Martel recorded all of the live
vocals of Freddie Mercury for that film. And
so when you listen to... The singing that's happening
live in the movie Bohemian Rhapsody. That's actually
Mark Martel singing So I've got because I like
Queen a lot I kind of got wrapped up a little
bit in his everything that he's doing with Queen
and With all the Queen stuff that he's doing
but then also like he still releases a lot of
different kinds of things like he'll he's got
duets with Amy Grant and Michael W Smith and
all kinds of stuff for Christmas music and Um,
and so I've just been pretty blown away by his
talent as a singer and I think a songwriter,
like there's, there's a video that if you haven't
seen this, I highly recommend it of Mark Martel
covering Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen. And it's
just him at a piano all by himself. Um, and it's
one of the most incredible things that I've ever
seen before. Um, the man's just incredibly talented.
And so, um, So, but I've never listened to any
of the music that his actual band put out before.
Um, and so for me, this is fun because I'm like,
I get to step back now and go listen to Mark
Martel when it comes to like songs that he's
writing and singing. And so, uh, I was really
excited to be able to, to get into this. So,
yeah, that's good. Any, any other thoughts you
guys have before we can I get into it? all right
let's do this track by track um so yeah first
we jump into bleed for this love um so my initial
thoughts i wrote down is his voice is like a
cross between matt hamet from sanctus real and
kevin max and i was like man what what is going
on and it made me like really curious for more
Um, it also wasn't until I listened to a few
of the tracks that zach informed me that it's
two different singers So I just thought it was
the same guy and i'm like man this guy like that's
cool. Got some really different. Yeah and um,
but yeah, I You know, I talk a lot about how
I see a album as like a concert And I think um
the first track even more so when you don't know
a band Like it sets the tone for because going
into this I knew they were really popular with,
um, like how many kings? And so in my mind, I'm
thinking how CCM is this going to be? And I think
right off the bat, I get, I get hit with, okay,
this is different. This isn't just, we're making
it, we're making an album to try to get plays
on K love. Um, so I think like after the first
track, I was still like, like wanting more. Like,
I was like, okay, I'm excited to see what's...
So I think it was really good in that regard
that it made me want to listen to more. What
were your thoughts, Zach? Honestly, I was really
blown away by the mixing of this. Like, I think
this is definitely a good, like, kick in the
door. Like, all right, we're kicking off an album.
But a lot of the, like, technical things of it,
like... how it messes with the panning a lot.
It opens hard, panned right, and kind of closes,
panned left, like you're moving through it. But
every piece of the verse had a different crash
in, cut out, crash in, cut out. It's like, we're
here, and this is what we're doing. All right.
So I need you guys to be a little gracious with
me on this. I don't really love this as an opener.
I'll talk a little bit more about that as we
get into it. But I do want to mention a couple
of things. I have notes about Kevin Max as well,
because I thought several times during this whole
record. was getting that Kevin Maxx vibe and
that led me to feel like some of these songs
almost sounded like DC Talk songs in some ways.
Whenever you say like whenever I feel like it's
good or bad if you say this reminds me of Kevin
Maxx's vocals because I had we had a college
professor Dr. Cersei who he was always like yeah
me and my brother would make fun of him because
he's always doing the Kevin was my favorite singer
in DC talk. So, okay. Well, that's, that's a
good sign. It's a good thing for me. Um, yeah.
So about the song, um, I like, I, I like the
song. It reminded me of like a song by like the
fray. Um, if you've ever heard the fray, um,
it's, it's, it does kind of give you like a picture
of where the record is going, that this is like
a piano rock kind of deal that we're getting
into. Um, obviously I like Mark's voice a lot.
And so I like that. Um, I like the like drops
that happen down to acoustic guitar and then
pick back up. Um, and I actually do, I think
the production is really good. Um, Brandon and
I talk Zach about production a lot. And so sometimes
good production for me is a good thing. And sometimes
it's a bad thing. Um, for me on this song. It
felt a little too slick for me. And it just made
the song feel a little stale. And so I didn't
dislike the song, but I didn't feel, while I
felt like... you get a little vibe of where we're
going I feel like this song lacked a lot of the
creativity that comes as the album progresses
on and this was a pretty more of just like straightforward
like pop rock song whereas I think especially
starting in like track three you have a lot of
creativity mixed within that and I think that
this one just didn't give like a good sense of
like um this one felt like one that would be
played on the radio whereas some of their other
stuff is like maybe this is a little too weird
for the radio does that make sense do you think
that if it if it wasn't the opener do you think
like if this is like track like three four five
ten or whatever you like it more or do you think
that you're kind of going to feel the same way
no matter where it falls on this album I don't
know. Maybe it would have blended in a little
better. It does feel like a single, like it feels
like we wrote this song to be a single that's
going to be on the radio. Okay. Um, whereas I
kind of feel like a lot of the songs, they probably
knew there's no way this would get played on
the radio. And I just happen to like the songs
more that are like, I know the song will get
played on the radio, um, just in general with
any artist. So, um, yeah, I didn't dislike it,
but it just wasn't, it didn't do every I honestly,
at this point, because this is the first time
I've listened to this record. Yeah. And so I
kind of was like, I don't really know what I'm
in for listening to this. Like, am I going to
have 13 songs of pretty much just straightforward
pop rock? Yeah. Or what's what's going to happen?
So I was just kind of left still wondering like
where we were going, if that makes sense. Gotcha.
Zach, moving to Here I Am. What are your thoughts
on the second track? So. It's funny because I
feel like the way that Joel feels about the first
track, I feel about the second track. Like, here
I am. I think, like, lyrically, it's really good.
But it does just kind of feel it feels like your
standard, like, Otz rock groove. In my notes,
I said it reminded me a little bit of our lady
piece. Yeah. And I. I do know that this actually
was one of the singles that was released prior
to the album. So it does give that single standalone
cut and dry, probably is going to get played
on the radio feel, to me at least. Yeah, Zach,
I actually felt the same way. And so again, here
I am, this is track two, and I'm like... All
right. So this is just a pretty standard like
pop rock record, which I didn't know where we're
going, although I know Mark's music a little
bit. And so it felt very radio friendly. I, there
were things about it that I thought were a little
interesting musically. Um, they, they do this
cool like vocal thing at the end of the song,
um, with all these different vocals going on.
And I thought that was pretty cool. Um, and creative,
but it just kind of felt, I felt like, all right.
At this point, I'm like, I think I know what
I'm getting here. Just a pretty straightforward
pop rock record. This one just kind of carried
on what I felt from the first song. Yeah. I think
for me, I put down like the piano is still here.
So I was kind of like being like, okay, well,
I'm picking up on piano is probably gonna be
pretty heavy on here. I thought the backing vocal
shined. Think like the track it wasn't like my
favorite track or whatever, but I think that
at this point I was still Still pretty happy
and maybe it's just because I went into it with
expectations of You know if we if we want to
say that your average kind of just run -of -the
-mill Caleb song is like a c -plus or something,
you know or whatever like that's my expectation
so I think that right now both songs had kind
of like over -delivered on what I expected. So
I feel like that kind of helped the album is
that like you're going into it with like really
low expectations. So maybe that's just the trick
is whenever you're going to listen to an album
just expect it to be the worst thing you've ever
listened to. But no, I think that like, and I
think that I make this comment later on, that
it just kind of reminded me that I think that
when people talk about like the greatest music
and we talk about you know this decade that decade
I feel like there's just something special about
like the 2000s where like they're like there's
so many bands that I love that there was this
like 2005 to 2010 mark and this was kind of reminding
me of like Zach said, is that you're finding
these people that are doing this stuff that you're
like, wait, you can make Christian music? Can
it sound like this? So yeah, I think right now
it was still like above what I was expecting.
Gotcha. Gotcha. What about track three, Brandon?
Cathedral made of people. Sorry, I messed up.
I put down I like the like building intro. I
really liked how this one you had this like kind
of like slow song and then there's this transition
into like faster and then you have like the electric
guitar come in. So I enjoyed that because at
first I was worried that it was I was like I
think it's too soon for us to like slow down
and just have like this very light thing. Uh,
so I did enjoy that you had some like different
stuff going on is that there is this like Speeding
up and we're building to something. Mm -hmm Zach,
what do you think about track three this? I have
a lot to say about track three This is for me.
This is the absolute jewel of the album Like
this is this is the highest mark that I can come
up with because like brand like brandon said
there's like the building throughout it Uh is
just like it's very nice. It's very steady How
you like start with just the lead vocalists and
the first refrain? then like a small chorus and
the second refrain and then you after the double
chorus you just get the full choir and the like
organ in the back and Maybe i'm just a sucker
for choir and organ but like just that big kick
in the door like Like sky -opening moment is
the is the thing that I live for in in this album
I have was there That that little refrain at
the end is a really good touch that nothing ever
can stand against her It's almost giving like
church bells in an old cathedral There's like
creaking wood noises like really soft in the
mix at the very beginning like it just it paints
a fantastic picture so when i finished track
two on this record brandon i almost texted you
and was like while i was listening to track two
and i was going to be like man i'm gonna have
a hard time with this record because it's pretty
straightforward and then i started listening
to track three and it's like my mind opened up
to this album Um, and I'm like, this is what
I've been waiting for. Um, this Zach, I think
is probably my favorite song on the album too,
but it just creates like a moment where the rest
of the album after this is very different, like
from what happens in the beginning and ways that
I love. Um, and so for me, the whole record picks
up here, but I really, I really love the song
a lot. This is where I wrote down the the like
Kevin Max, DC Talk influence too, because I'm
like, this sounds like it could be like one of
the more like creative, like DC Talk songs. Well,
you can tell Mark Martell was a fan of Kevin
Max. When you listen to this, there's like a
cool guitar solo section that's happening. And
then that organ hits. And I was not expecting
it. I was not ready for it. But that organ took
the song from a four to a four point five for
me. I'm like, man, this. This is awesome. It's
overblown. Like that organ is too big for the
mix, but it's perfect because of that. Like it
just works so well. And I'm here for it. I just
wrote down love it, love it, love it. I thought
this was such a cool song. Maybe not my favorite
song lyrically on the album. It's pretty simple.
But but man, all the musical stuff going on like
there's a point in the build where it really
does kick in and sound like a phrase song, but
in all the right ways. It's a great track. Yeah,
I loved it. Next we move to my last Amen. Were
you loving this track as well, Joel? I did love
this track, Brandon. I thought this was a really
interesting piano work and melody. This was like,
I could tell Mark Martel. is like all over this.
There's like a Queen influence. Like this is
the first time I heard Freddie Mercury on his
voice on this record. I wrote down this album
is really getting better. And there are these
moments where the guitars are hitting and there's
horns in the background. And then somehow and
later in the song, it breaks out into this like
dance beat. And I'm like. Okay. I wasn't expecting
that, but it works. Um, there's just a, there's
a lot of creativity in it. Yeah. I thought it
was really interesting. What about you, Zach?
I, so, uh, this was, this is a very creative
song and I love, like, I think, like you said,
very, very musically interesting. It's, it's
got like this tango feel, like, uh, I wrote down
dancing around the idea of like death and like
getting to, uh, getting to your last amen in
a way. I liked how it just it never resolved
to a major like chord in the refrain until like
the very end and it's like it's it's that it's
that development through the song and I think
we'll get through it we'll get to it in a few
other tracks where it's just like the the way
that it builds the way that it kind of puts itself
together and in small ways that just make the
finish like Chef's kiss kind of kind of thing
it like the trumpets a nice flair the I Don't
I don't know if this is too technical but like
the very end has a pickery third Which is not
my favorite, but I think it works here But it's
not my favorite on the track but I do see like
the I See the the the stars in the sky with this
one Enjoy I was telling Zach prior to this that
I enjoy when you have people who like know like
why something is good and they can explain it
Because I feel like if not, it's just me being
like man that car was fast because it's fast
But then someone be like, oh, yes the engine
we put some the oil the special oil Brandon My
notes I wrote down Okay, so you're telling me
this guy isn't related to Kevin Maxx. I really
enjoy the continuation of it being different.
And I feel like this the vocals just shine really
well. And like I said, going into it, I didn't
really know what to expect. But I felt like,
like the beginning, like y 'all were saying,
it wasn't like we're breaking new ground. But
I felt like, to this point, none of the tracks
felt like it's, okay, here's the cookie cutter
we have. And I think that a lot of bands can
fall into, yeah, we'll have some different stuff,
but you know that eight tracks on this album
are going to have these four ingredients. And
that's what we're known for, and that's what
we're going to sell. So I'm really appreciating,
up to this point, just the... Kind of variety
and like sounds and what we're getting. Yeah
What about track? Five hope is rising. What'd
you guys think about that one? It goes I think
I think that um, this one I really liked it If
if every song from like track three has had like
a different like angle I would say that like
this one is more like Synthy, you know, yeah
not not like hard edm but like Little like a
little dash of that in the mix. Mm -hmm I've
written love the beeps and boops in the metronome
like like it sounds very like How do I describe
it it sounds like a like a click ticking clock
in the background Let's see it it does call back
to like the choir feel track three a little bit
and it feels like a interweaving of like oh you
heard this in this song you heard this in this
song and it's like all on top of that like uh
aughts feel that you got in one and two and it's
just it's a very very nice lyrically uh very
nice like in musical motion like it feels like
this is just going up and up and up which you
know thematically is really fun What do you think
Brandon? For me, I enjoyed having a little slow
down in it. I also, I don't know if you guys
will agree with this or not, but I said that
songs like this can be good when they're done
right. Many times the CD is made up of entirely
of these types of things. I think the more simple
stuff can be good. So, like, I did feel like
it was a little more simple and straightforward
than other ones, but it made me think of, you
know, there's a lot of times that, you know,
when it comes to, like, worship music, and I'd
be like, man, I don't care for this. I don't
care for that on the radio. And it's not that
all that stuff is bad. I think it's just when
everyone is doing the same thing, or when an
artist is only doing that. Um, so I feel like
you can have something that is more on the simple
side that works really, really well when that's
not just everything you're being served. Yeah.
Yeah. I like this one, Zach, and go back to something
that you said, um, talking about just feeling,
feeling like musically, like it's It's rising
it's going up and I felt I felt like I agreed
with that and I felt like that fit with like
the theme of the song hope is rising that this
song was a really good blend of They're not just
Creating a soundscape and then giving us some
lyrics about something But they're actually like
musically painting the picture of what the song
is about And I thought that was really cool.
Like it really as I listened to it felt like
hope is rising right now. Like the song just
portrays that idea so well musically and a lot
of artists like can't do something like that
and so I thought that was a really cool touch
to this one and yeah I enjoyed it. Next we move
to Something Heavenly. What are your thoughts
on this track Joel? Something Heavenly so for
me I felt like this one was a little more in
the vein of the first two songs. It felt a little
more straightforward. I mean, I liked a lot of
things about it. The intro was good. The it I
wrote down a note on this that the bridges are
just good on this album. Like these guys are
really good at making good bridges. And so even
if a song is not like doing it for me, like the
bridge pretty much always gets me. Yeah. And
I'm always here on it. And part of that is just
like Mark's voice. It's usually Mark singing
on the bridge. And so he his voice just kind
of floats and takes you somewhere And so it does
that for me on this song I love all the moments
of this song that aren't just the straightforward
Moments, which there are some there where they
do some more creative things There's a lot there's
some fullness like the ending is pretty full
with a lot of different things happening and
so I liked a lot of that, but I did feel like
parts of it were just kind of more back to the
straightforward kind of thing too. But, um, but
it worked. It worked for me. You say, I think,
um, cause I went back through and like, tried
to like actually like play some of these songs
because you know, when you, when you go through
the chords and you go through like how it, how
it was put together that way, you can find some
really cool things. So like the, the chords in
the verse actually paint a really fun picture
because you start on like you start on one chord
in the middle like the minor chord and then you
move up and then you move down and then you move
back and it's like thematically it's like oh
you're in this you're in this like I draw upward
and a fall downward and then back to like a minor
sounding like this is where I'm at so like music
musically it's interesting I I will echo what
Joel said those bridges just every single time.
It's like It It feels like it should be disconnected,
but it works. Yeah, you know it it's Tethered
enough to like be like, okay. No, they didn't
just splice this in it But it's far enough away
to where it's like it's like a sail pulling a
ship, you know, yeah Um was it gives it some
upward motion kind of like track five like that
rising motion from from an album standpoint i
think having track five and track six back to
back really really helps out both of them you
know in the in the grand scheme of things but
but yeah yeah i i agree i um i feel like the
the album is still like moving in a really good
way um i really like the like eerie stuff that
was going on behind the guitars uh i was trying
to think of how to like recreate that noise but
after brad is saying i don't think i can so if
you're listening this just go listen to it and
you'll be like that's eerie um but i like those
little things um like i i've shared this story
before that there was this like behind the scenes
on a toby mack album um it was i don't know if
portable sounds or it might have been tonight
but there was this thing where They're like,
oh we have to have this cd in by five o 'clock
and it is like 4 15 And one of his guys is going
through it and just has this like little bell
or something and just going like ding ding and
it's like They're just like yeah, that's it's
such a little thing, but it makes the song better
Yeah, and so sometimes when you when I hear those
little things, I think like they didn't have
to do that but it's cool when you have a band
or whoever is responsible for it is taking the
time to say let's do this little tweak on here
to improve this. That's cool. Next up we have
Coming Back Home. Zach, what do you think about
Coming Back Home? I think first note is that
bass is doing some heavy lifting. I love the
shuffle feel in this one. like it's just it's
very it feels like a like a very forward like
walking song you know which you know given the
given the theme of the lyrics like the prodigal
son yeah um it it's very much like uh like i'm
i'm heading back into like some things that i
know i just screwed up yeah i know i know i need
to i know i need to head this way let's see uh
the chord under the phrase torn down in the chorus
is such like a wide spaced chord like it's it's
like I don't want to say like it's a minor major
seven basically which means that you've got like
this dark tone in the core but like this uplifting
kind of distant tone in the top end so so you
get like this conflicting like Hate that I've
torn this down, but I have hope that if I go
back to you I can yeah find reconciliation and
then the the bridge where it just like barges
straight into a major like Here we go. You won't
you won't let me down in this and it's just it's
it's a really fun song It's a really fun group
and I really dig it Brandon I'm really interested
to know your thoughts on this one. I wrote down
I was like, what genre is this? Country Western?
Rock? But no, I liked it. I think that it was
definitely different than like the rest. But
I think this is where I started kind of paying
attention to the lyrics and being like, man,
I'm in I'm enjoying this because I think even
just like like musically when there's tracks
that maybe like that's that's not the like like
I mean like I'm way more of a lyric than like
a music person so I think that it's nice when
you can fall back on that okay this just doesn't
feel like uh it's cheesy and it made me think
that I think there's a lot of a lot of bands
that I know the backstory of like okay here's
their production like process or here's like
the label had a lot to do with it so it did make
me curious on here that like i'd love to somehow
find out who who were the driving forces are
responsible for like us receiving this album
like the way we do like is it the label is it
you know mark is it the band itself. The fans
voting on audioscorecard .com. I'll say, I forgot
to mention this earlier, that I think that was
so cool when like I am such a fan of people just
doing stuff that's like different like that.
Yeah. And like when I heard that, I felt like
I found out about it after listening to this.
Yeah. And I was like, man i feel like that bumps
up the album score just no i was like this could
have been the worst i might ever heard but just
knowing that i'll throw it half a point just
because that's that's really cool um so yeah
um i wrote a note on this brandon because i was
trying to place this song to you like the whole
time it was going on i was like who does this
sound like and i couldn't For the life of me
figure it out until the end of the song and all
of a sudden it just like hit me What band do
you feel like maybe this song sounds like? I
don't know. I wrote down house of heroes And
so I want to encourage you to go back and listen
to it with house of heroes ears And see what
you think about it Because it had it was quirky.
I said but a good kind Kind of a little bit of
a dancey feel to it There were a lot of like
Queen influences to this. Yeah, which I don't
know how well, you know this but Queen is like
a big influence on House of Heroes, especially
vocally with like gang vocals and melodies and
things like that that are happening. I thought
the chorus on this was really different, but
cool. The melodies were really interesting. There's
like a musical interlude that happens. And I
think that's where it hit me. Like this sounds
like something House of Heroes would do in a
song. And all of it just kind of came together
in that moment. This is actually one of my favorite
songs on the record. Um because it's kind of
different in a fun way. Yeah, and so I really
really like this one. Yeah What about track eight
all at war? Um For me, this is the first miss
on the album I was hoping that it would fall
to where I could follow one of y 'all and one
of you could say something and I'd be like, oh,
okay that I didn't know that that kind of redeems
it. Um, I feel like this was just the first one
that I was like, I feel like just like the music
like the lyrics there just was really nothing
that i was like okay i can hold on to that or
i think that that's like good um so yeah i think
this was just the first one that i was kind of
like i don't know it's just kind of like there
for me yeah i i'll go ahead and say i think for
me this might be my least favorite track on the
record too um i interestingly wrote down is this
the first slow song on the album because I don't
think that the other ones hit me that way even
though I know some of them started out slow I
didn't get hit by it the same way I did here
so I was like that's kind of interesting but
then it just felt like it was lacking a lot of
the creativity that had been happening on the
album even though like it picks up a little bit
on the bridge and things get a little more interesting
there it just it wasn't my favorite favorite
track sack what were your thoughts yeah i do
i i can agree with y 'all that like it is a bit
of a weaker track um i think i think for me the
lyrics kind of kind of pull it up a little bit
but definitely the instrumentation is just it's
it's kind of more ambiance it's kind of just
like it's it's a very floaty like no frills no
bells no whistles just kind of like a like a
a flat plane on which the lyrics sit If the if
the lyrics don't really catch you then it's it
really is kind of nothing But I personally I
like the lyrics. I think the bridge is still
cool. Yeah, but but it's it's definitely it's
definitely one of the One of the lower ratings
on this one. Yeah, I don't think there's a bridge
that misses It makes me wonder I'd love to go
back and listen to the songs that were cut from
the album because I know like Toby Mack a couple
years ago he released a Like lost demos. It was
like six or seven tracks And he was talking about
how like one of them on there. He was like, well,
we already had one about like um, it might have
been like his son or something and I just thought
like I mean that's interesting and I know even
um I feel like i'm talking a lot about toby mac
for this to be a down here Podcast, but um, I
know years ago he it all stems from there was
just this mini documentary on the cd so I this
just really pushes that as a kid and now I love
documentaries Especially if they're heading on
like bonus sides of a cd. Well, there's two coming
on netflix about to be like I'm gonna have to
check them out Um, but he was like he was like,
yeah like I start the process by i'll write out
like It was something crazy like 100 courses
Then he was like we'll trim that down to like
40 of them that will kind of like go further
with them and he was just like talking about
how he essentially goes from there's a hundred
like beginnings you know foundations for a song
and then that will be trimmed down to like the
12 to 15 that you see on an album and i used
to think like man i wonder what stuff out there
is just sitting there like just just a good chorus
or you have all the lyrics just no music behind
it um so it made me curious to be like I wonder
if, you know, I mean, maybe you could see this
as a whole, like the, you know, think about the
four weakest tracks in your mind. Like, are there
four songs that were not on here that you were
like, man, this, this takes this album from whatever
rating to so much higher or, you know, was it
a, Oh, well be glad they put this one on instead
of like, you know. Yeah, it would be interesting.
You're right. I think they actually did release
them. Don't know if I can't remember I read about
it if there was a deluxe edition or they made
like a separate EP But basically I think they
were the songs the fans didn't vote for okay
But so it'd be interesting to know why were they
two out there or were they you know, like what?
Yeah, it would be fascinating to listen to them.
So what are your thoughts Joel on don't miss
now? Yeah, so don't miss now was another slow
track. I thought it was interesting that they
put two more chill tracks right next to each
other versus spreading them out over the album.
But this one worked a lot more for me than all
at war. That melody is just a lot more interesting.
And then the bridge, holy cow, the bridge again,
so good on this song. So yeah, this I, I probably
I think they probably could have just taken all
at war. off and then this would have flowed well
from coming back home into this song rather than
having two slow songs next to each other. Yeah.
Yeah. I think for me it was like just the two
slower songs back to back. I think it kind of
like does a disservice to it. I don't think there's
anything wrong and I think it's stronger than
All At War. but that's it kind of goes back to
the placement of songs is it made me think i
probably would have enjoyed this a little bit
more if it's not if it wasn't preceded by like
all at war yeah slow songs have a hard time with
you anyways but when you put two of them next
to each other it's like uh zack what'd you think
man i so uh i'll echo what y 'all are saying
like i do think it's stronger than than all at
war like i If I recall correctly, listening through
this when I first got the CD, once I got comfortable
with it, I would skip all at war and just go
to Don't Miss Now, which I think let it flow
a little better. Yeah. I think I think Don't
Miss Now really highlights like the piano forward
stuff that you get in like the back half of the
album. I feel like the front half was more guitar
for the back half was more like piano forward.
But I've got words about this bridge man From
from like a from like a chord perspective. Yeah,
it's it is so thematically like on point because
the a lot of it is like The road less traveled
and whatnot. Yeah, and once you get to the bridge
The the tonal center of this song it's chucked
straight out the window You're like going to
like this key and this key like you're nodding
to this key like I I asked my wife like when
listening through this for for the for the show
I was like I was like help me figure this out
because it just sounds bonkers And sure enough
like it's it's a very consonant like chord progression
like it makes sense when you look at it but it's
the weirdest way to get all the way back to where
you started, which I think is super on point.
It's musically less traveled, and I think that's
really cool. Yeah, I loved that. That's awesome.
All right, track number 10 is Live for You. Zach,
what were your thoughts on this one? I definitely
skipped this one a lot. I think All at War and
this song are kind of at odds for the bottom
of the barrel with this album. Lyrically, it's
fine. Musically, it's just not that interesting.
And I think they do some weird things with the
drum beats. It feels like it builds at the very,
very end just to stop again. like without one
of those full breaks, it's just like even, even,
even, even picks it up and then just drops it.
So I'm, it's, it's not a, it's not a hit for
me. Yeah. I think for me, I wrote, I feel like
the past little bit of this song has been way
more CCM than like the beginning. I feel like
it felt more worshipal, worshipal. And I agree
with Zach that I think that the Lyrics there
was nothing wrong with them. I think it was just
the music that felt like it dragged it down a
little bit Yeah, it's not one of my favorites
either but I like the pre -chorus I felt like
was a good shift and it goes kind of like double
time at the end just to kind of change the pace
a little bit so like Two things that I thought
about it were were cool. But yeah, it's not not
a highlight for me either So 11 track 11 the
problem This one felt different to me. Mm -hmm.
What do you think Brandon? I think this might
be my favorite track off the whole album I really
like this. I feel like everything just like the
the music the lyrics the voice like everything
was just like like firing on all cylinders And
I just I really love Feel like a lot of times
and it's not just like a Christian world thing,
but I think it's in every like kind of like a
group or whatever you want to call but there's
always this like well the problem is It's like
pointing outwards and it's these people they
can do more. Why are they not doing it's their
fault and I think I've just learned that Like
a lot of times when you start fixing when you
start focusing on stuff you're missing you start
seeing the world like start changing because
you start seeing yourself be the one that realizes
like i can't change this person but i can change
how i treat this person or the situation or whatever
so i feel like even just the message of it like
it was just like i said it was the uh best song
for me on the album that's cool sac what'd you
think uh i just want to say i had a feeling that
this was going to be brandon's song like I was
like, no, Brandon's going to really, really get
this one. I like it. I wouldn't put it in my
top spot, but I think this is the track on the
album where it's a very overt message. I don't
want to say call to action, but very much like,
hey, this is the... Radical stance. Yeah, I know
kind of what Brenda was talking about So lyrically
fantastic. It's a neat beat It gives kind of
like a western feel like kind of like another
walking song. Yeah And the the chorus stuff on
the outro like I'm just a sucker for the chorus
stuff. It was really cool Yeah, I agree with
that on the outro. That's cool. I yeah, I thought
this was a good like Change a good feeling change
and one thing that I that I like about this album
is That there is like a pretty good variety of
like influences that are at play coming together
And like letting all those things shine In a
lot of cases and so I thought I thought this
was cool. And yeah, it's a pretty bold message
about like our own sinfulness and so I thought
I thought the lyrics were really good. I loved
the vocals at the end like we talked about, but
yeah, I just it's kind of nice having acoustic
guitar things just to feel like a little a little
different. So I thought this one was cool. Next
time we move to the Becker who gives ohms. Joel,
what are your thoughts? Yeah, this one felt simple,
but not the kind of simple that felt like Uh,
this is just another radio, like straightforward
song. I actually liked, um, I liked the simplicity
of this one and I felt like the simplicity of
this one worked, um, worked better than, than
some of the other ones. The theme is cool. Like
being beggars, like in need of grace. Um, I thought
that was cool and how they played. Like with
that biblically, but also like with them making
music and so I in I feel like all their songs
like sort of go somewhere and this one didn't
go anywhere Yeah, somehow it worked that it didn't
go anywhere and I yeah, I liked it. Yeah Zach,
what about you? I'll echo that like it's it definitely
it sits at where it's at but it is content to
be contemplative. Does that make sense? This
is one of the tracks that I probably played on
repeat. This and Cathedral are my top two. As
an artist, it's just beautiful poetry put over
beautiful music. It's quiet. It's subdued. But
it doesn't drag it's not stagnant The the lyrics
that I have written here is I I'm recreating
visions through a cracked and broken lens like
that gives me chills every single time I I don't
know. I think that's all I got to say about it's
just a beautiful track. Yeah Yeah, I I think
for me lyrically I enjoy that it kind of like
stays where it does. Because I think that a lot
of times in Christian music, there's this like,
I'm not a cool person. But then by the chorus,
it's like, but that actually makes me the coolest
person, you know, in the world. And I enjoy that
there is none of this like, you know, I don't
know, I think sometimes it's almost like we sit
there and we pray like, Lord, like, just give
me what I need to survive. Don't give me anything
special. but we say that expecting, like, well,
if I say that, then God will definitely give
me, like, a million dollars, because they'll
be like, oh, you got the cheat code, you didn't
want it, so therefore I'm going to give that
to you. So, I enjoy, just from a story standpoint,
that it stays with this, like, yeah, that's who
I am, and that's okay. Like, it doesn't... I
don't have to become a king or something for
this to be worth it or a good life or whatever.
Yeah. So I think it's good. I think it's important
sometimes to remember that if a song is good
enough, if the lyrics are good enough, if the
melody is good enough, it doesn't have to do
anything crazy. It can stand on its own because
it's that good. I mean, yeah, think about a song
like Yesterday by the Beatles doesn't go really
anywhere. Fantastic. But just in its simplicity
is just beautiful. And I feel like the song just
kind of carries those vibes and works, works
really well. And that leads us into track 13,
the last song, How Many Kings. Zach, what you
think about How Many Kings? So I'm you guys said
at the top, what I've been thinking, like if
we would have stopped at the beggar who gives
alms, I would have been completely fine. It's
not that How Many Kings is a bad song. It's and
I'm pretty sure I'm repeating you verbatim, but
it just doesn't fit. I'm pretty sure this was
tacked on as a bonus track, and I think a lot
of the places that I look at the track list,
it's listed as a bonus track. But I think while
it is a nice Christmas song, I think it kind
of detracts from the album as a whole. It feels
okay. It's nice. It's fine. Yeah, I had the same
feeling like as I'm listening to it It's a good
song and it's the kind of thing that I would
expect to hear on the radio, especially around
Christmas time It was I actually went and added
it to my Christmas playlist because I'm like
this will work Well like a Christmas time, but
it didn't feel to me like it just fit it fit
the record at all as a whole like it felt out
of place and As I was looking into it. I noticed
that it was really I think released the year
before as like a Christmas single or maybe on
a compilation or something. And so then my thought
is, well, they had a lot of success with it.
And so the record label is like, hey, we're going
to stick this song on the end of your album because
you haven't put it on an album yet and people
love it. So they'll buy the record if the song
is on there at the end. But I don't think it
works with the album. For me, I kind of have
like a different approach. uh like I appreciate
the song more after seeing the quality of the
other tracks because I was I was half expecting
it to be okay here's their hit then everything
else is just like every there's attempts to where
it was like here was the other 12 that didn't
work but here's the one that actually did hit
yeah um and I guess for me I thought the album
was different enough that it didn't like it didn't
seem I guess as out of place like if you like
hearing this now it kind of makes sense okay
like yeah I guess I can see how that but if you
would have told me no that was the plan from
the start I wouldn't have thought it was like
as out in left field but I can definitely see
where y 'all are coming from with it with it
being kind of like and I think that Zach brings
up an interesting point that like I think the
album does feel a lot different if you end with,
like, the beggar who gives alms. And so, like,
I think that is interesting to think, like, oh,
like, yeah, how do I feel if that's, like, at
a concert? I think at a concert, how many kings
plays, and you're like, yeah, they're playing
the top song, you know, so I think it works better
if it's a concert, but yeah, as an album, I don't
know. but yeah, it's interesting. I think that
leads into kind of moving into some of our like
final thoughts and rating of the record. I feel
like for me, if there were a few songs, um, that
weren't like 13 songs is a pretty, I don't want
to say bloated album, but there's a lot of songs
on there. Um, and so, um, I think that probably
if there were two or maybe three songs that got
pulled then I feel like the record as a whole
is a lot more cohesive and just works better
and probably I probably would have like a stronger
like rating for it coming out of that but my
rate every track and divide by 13 um for me puts
ending is beginning by down here at a 3 .6 okay
but i feel like if how many kings and all at
war um and maybe one of those early tracks wasn't
here then i think that this album would easily
be like over a four um over a four for me there's
so much about it that i really enjoyed was surprised
by um and just got really excited about like
i'm gonna I'm going to keep listening to this
because I really, really enjoyed it that much.
And I think with just a little editing of the
track listing, like I think it's even stronger.
So. Gotcha. For me, yeah, I, like I said, going
into it, didn't didn't really know what to expect.
So I feel like it's always safer to have lower
expectations than to be like. All right, well,
Zach chose this, so it better be the greatest
music I ever heard. But I was really pleasantly
surprised by what I experienced with this album,
and I gave it an even four. That's cool. before
this Brandon told me about your scoring system,
Joel, so I kind of split it between like, okay,
here's how the Joel system works and here's how
Brandon's system works. So I think as a whole
album, it has some really high highs, but the
lows don't go super low. There's nothing on this
album that I'd be like, I dislike listening to
this. There's nothing here that's actively bad
for me. There's certain songs that I'm like,
oh, I might skip this one, or I'll probably skip
this one most of the time. I think my Rate Every
Song composite score put me at about a 3 .5.
But I'll I'll agree with you guys if if you take
out a couple of like take out all of or take
out a couple of different tracks Like it could
it could definitely be like closer to a four.
Awesome. Yeah. Yeah, that's cool. So we're kind
of Brandon you you came out on top on this And
it makes up for all those striper fans I love
that. I love that. Well, this has been a really
fun one to dig into. I was actually really excited
to talk about this because of how much I actually
really enjoyed this album. And Zach, thanks for
bringing it to us and allowing us to get to talk
through this and have this journey. Let's talk
about our lyric of the week as we get ready to
finish out. So I felt like there were a lot of
strong lyrics on this record so there were lots
of things I could have pulled from but the one
as I was just listening and reading through that
that stood out to me is from the song my last
amen it says and while the thrills are fading
the joy is in the waiting somewhere in the grand
design it's good to be unsatisfied it keeps the
faith and hope a little more alive I liked just
the tension um that's kind of in those in those
lyrics and so I thought that was I thought that
was cool so well Zach thanks man for hanging
out with us this has been a blast and uh we'll
definitely have to have to have you back on in
the future to talk about um some other things
where um can people uh can people find you anywhere
online do you you open to that like um yeah where
can people find you People cannot find me. Good
luck trying. The best place you can find me is
on this podcast. There you go. There you go.
And so hopefully you'll be able to find them
again in the future. Well, you can find us obviously
here, but we're on Facebook as well. Hey, are
you listening at Harry pod on X? We would love
it if you subscribe to the podcast so that you
can have these in your feed every Friday morning
as they get released. If you want to leave a
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you want to send in some mail to the mail bag
and so you can send in your questions to heyareulisteningpod
at gmail .com and we'd love to have a conversation
about those things on the air. We're so thankful
that you joined us today and we look forward
to having you back in the future as we keep having
these fun conversations. We'll see you next week.
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