Are you listening? This ain't no quiet thing
We're screaming out our lungs All right, welcome
friends to Hey Are You Listening? This is a podcast
exploring the past, present, and future of Christian
music. My name is Joel and I'm here with my good
friend Brandon. And we connected over mutual
love of some certain artists, but also have different
tastes when it comes to things. And so we get
to expose each other to new things while inviting
some friends along for the ride from time to
time. And we actually have a guest with us today.
and so you may know him. I'm from his work on
your PV guitar amp or his time in the bands Bellador
and Ransom Tree. He's a worship leader and my
college roommate and best friend, Mr. John Paul
Dove. JP, how are you, my friend? Man, it is
great to be on this podcast. I've, you know,
I've been on the outside looking in just like,
let me in there. You got it. You guys are having
such a great time. And anyway, man, it's, it's,
you're falling. Yeah. So, um, but yeah, it's
just great to great to be here to connect with
you. Anyway, it's always good to catch up, but,
uh, You know, anytime we get together, it's always
music. Anyway, that's that's kind of the thing
we talk about. So that's right, man. It's a perfect
fit. This is it's it's a natural thing. Yeah,
we're super thankful to have you here with us
today. Yeah, it's been for me and you music from
the beginning that kind of drew us together.
Beginning. Yeah, I think I met you. I was I was
playing bass for a couple of guys that were in
my youth group that started music thing and we
were doing auditions for guitar players and I
think you came in to audition and the day that
you're you remind me if I'm right or wrong about
this but the day that you auditioned, they decided
that they actually didn't want to do this anymore.
And they wanted to go back to singing with tracks
or something and not have a band. I was like,
how that's not very rock and roll. I was like,
I was like, what is this? Say, say, yeah, that
used to be a thing singing to tracks. Yep. It
was, it was. It was like karaoke for church.
Yeah, it was the thing to do. It's pretty fun
But yeah, and so I think we decided that day.
Well, if they don't want us We'll just start
our own thing and go from there. Yeah, we did
and Do you what year was that? I was trying to
I Think it what was it? Was it 95? It's probably
95 it had to have been 95. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,
I think so But yeah, I remember that and then
we we just We kind of had a constant rotation
of people that we were playing with. There's
no doubt about that. Yeah. But you and I always
stuck it out together until I eventually quit.
Yeah, until we got enough of that, you know,
decided, hey, you know, as much as stinky vans
are fun, I think I'd rather get married and,
you know, start an actual life. Oh, yeah. Classic
story. Classic story of a woman coming in and
she was she was completely worth it, though.
And she still is every day. Oh, you you you made
you made a great decision. I'll never regret
that one. That's cool, man. Well, I'm so excited
for us to be able to talk through this today.
Tell you tell us a little bit, John Paul, like.
for you, like, how did how did Christian music
kind of enter into your story in your world?
Like, how did you get involved? Well, I think
for me, like just music in general, like, I mean,
I heard you guys talking in one of the previous
episodes, you are talking about, you know, your
history with Christian music and or just music
in general. And, you know, I had a very similar
experience to you, Joe, in the sense that music
was just always there. I learned to play guitar
with my dad and then my grandfather was always
singing. Some of the early Christian music that
I remember was actually written by Hank Williams.
or like Johnny Cash, like his, some of his stuff.
But that's what I, you know, that's how I discovered
music in general. And, but yeah, just the, getting
into that kind of music, learning it, and then
just at church, it just, you know, they find
out, oh, you play guitar. And so they, you know,
the They want to put you up there and on the
stage every now and then to show you off. But,
but, you know, I was, I mean, I'm sure it was
awful, but so I just, I just started, I just
started, you know, learning, learning to play
some of the standards and, and, uh, you know,
it was really interesting. It wasn't really until
I met you, Joel, until I really, uh, It as far
as like Christian music outside of just church
music. Yeah And it was right about that time
I remember I was in a I'd go into a camp down
at Gulf Shores Baptist assembly And there was
it was the first time I ever walked into I guess
it was a life way. Yeah, and so I saw this section
of CDs or cassette tapes and started looking
through it and I was like, wait a minute. I think
the very first record I ever bought was Big Tent
Revival. Yeah, Big Tent Revival. And I remember
learning to play that song, Two Sets of Joneses.
If I'm not mistaken, I had met you, and then
you introduced me to Pray for Rain, PFR. And
I remember at some point seeing jars of clay
when they first came out. It was at a church,
it was some youth night, and I went to it. And
I don't know, I just started... you know, it
was just kind of eye -opening to me. But I think
the majority of, you know, my experience with
Christian music probably wasn't until I got into
college. Right. You know, I learned a lot of
my, I got exposed to a lot of Christian music
actually outside of the world of church music
in particular, mostly from you and some of our
mutual friends. Yeah. Yeah, it was fun. JP and
I are in our room together in college. Our lives
kind of melded together at a deep level for a
few years at that point. Absolutely. One of us
was getting exposed to something, the other one
was too, which was kind of fun. Right. Well,
you know, one of my memories is... My exposure
to most of the music I was listening to is that
at that time was usually riding in either your
truck I was riding shotgun there and you would
go through your stack of CDs your your Your binder.
Yeah, you'd say hey, you got to check this out.
So we'd put that in and listen to it or You know
on the way to Waffle House or something And then
eventually in the van as we were traveling around
which was fun. Yeah Yeah, we had an old an old
GMC van. I don't know what year that man was,
but yeah, we traveled around and Yeah, rest in
peace Reggie Yeah, we named our van Reggie. Yeah
All right. Well today let's we're gonna I'm gonna
Give a game to you guys just kind of a fun way
for us to get thinking and talking about some
of this And so this is a new game called guilty
pleasures And so this is something we're all
all three of us are gonna do where we name two
guilty pleasures For us for ourselves in the
CCM world meaning that like it could be an artist.
It could be an album It could be a song but something
that like you probably wouldn't readily want
other people to know that like you're like actually
really into this this thing so Yeah, what's a
what what is the guilty pleasure for you? Okay
Well, well, I've got several, but well, here's
the thing. Guilty. When you, when you, when you
look like me, I'd have lost all shame years ago,
but I will say that I do still pull out T -bone.
I will still listen. Okay. So here, here's the
deal. Look when. when you when you're having
to deal with TPS reports that work and Copiers
aren't working and things like that But you still
want to represent Jesus. Well, you know, that's
that's kind of Yeah, so so I definitely I'll
have to listen to some some Christian gangster
rap if that makes So you're you're still a lyrical
assassin, huh? Yeah, I don't I don't know if
theologically if that checks out or not I Hear
yeah, it definitely feels good, you know, so
that's funny. Take that demons Yes, some of those
early Christian rap records were I think the
first CD that I ever bought was the dynamic twins
which was like a Christian rap record. But yeah,
I was pretty into that for a little while, for
sure. Yeah, I remember that. It's good stuff.
So I'm just gonna, I'm gonna throw one out and
we can kind of go bounce around. But for me,
one that I think I've learned to appreciate more
over time is Amy Grant, guys. Oh man. Amy Grant
is so good. Um, such a great singer, such a good
songwriter, um, from baby baby, but especially
the Christmas music. I feel like nobody does
Christmas music like Amy Grant. And so I'm here
for it. Yeah. Just bring it. Yeah. She really
does. I was thinking about that too. Yeah. Amy,
Amy grant. She's awesome. What about you, Brandon?
I... For me, it was a struggle because I feel
like even weird stuff I listen to, I'm very like
Danielson. I'm like, I think that's... It's weird
and good. For me, one that came to mind was...
Do you guys remember the To Save a Life movie
that came out? Yep. There was an original rap
song they did by some guy named J. Russ. And
it's just this like Italian guy that has like
an afro and he does this like it's supposed to
be a really cool rap song because it's supposed
to be like, oh, we did a live concert for this.
And I feel like it's so cringy, but it's like
if I wanted to put someone in the background
that's just like, yeah, you move to or whatever.
That's what I'm playing. Yeah. J Russ. There
you go. I don't know it, but I will check it
out. That's pretty awesome. JP, you got any more?
Man, you know I'm not I'm not really ashamed
of it. But I mean, I'm a I'm a big fan of rich
Mullins But there are a few of his of his tracks
that I have to admit Instrumentally or kind of
cheesy, but I still I still are they sound dated
But uh, but I still rock out to awesome. God.
I love that And yeah Yeah, I love it. I mean
like like his stuff is amazing and and then there
are some things that I do listen to that I can't
listen to around anyone else because for one
thing it just like You know few left standing
I Get in I get in the mood for it and it's like
even my kids are like what is wrong with you?
And I'm just like Sometimes you just got to open
up the pit. I don't know. I mean, but, but I
just, I just have to do it. And I, and I, you
know, and then all the nice ladies at church,
they just, you know, they look at you like, what?
Yeah. I just have to keep that to myself. And
those guys are awesome. There's nothing to be
ashamed of there. I'm not ashamed of it, but
it's just, I have to, I have to listen to it
by myself. You know, I will say that I don't
think I want to use this platform as a way to
attack people, but looking through trying to
choose cringy music, I came across, I got to
call out someone on Spotify. There's a playlist
that's cringy Christian music. I click on it
and it's all just Toby Maxx songs. So someone
out there named Rachel. It's cool and I was so
just I was like Rachel what so, you know, I don't
know this Rachel person But I just felt personally
attacked the in it. Listen, there's some stuff
that I'll give it to you might be a little cringy
But I felt like it was it wasn't questionable
stuff So just there's Rachel out there that in
her mind if she was here right now, she would
say you want cringe go listen to some That one
hurt a little bit, huh? It did. I felt personally
attacked. Oh my goodness. I'm so sorry. I had
to experience that. I met him two years ago at
an expo in California for work. But yeah, he
ended up being played a surprise show there.
So I did get to it, man. He puts on a great show.
Part of me was really worried that John Paul
is about to share. Like, yeah, I met him. Worst
guy ever. Oh, no, no, he was a super. Yeah, I
met him and his bass player at the time. OK,
they came by or boost. Yeah, that's really cool.
I heard he has a next door neighbor. Mm hmm.
Sorry. I'm going back to the Stephen Kirsten
episode. Got to be true. Got to be true. Even
Curtis Chapman. Yeah. All right. So let me just
throw one more out here. This is hard This is
hard for me because yeah, I I feel like I Don't
know we've already covered this we've already
covered this band I think to most people the
fact that I am a big Sixpence none the richer
fan might be something that they would look at
and say That's got to be a guilty pleasure because
kiss me like you're into that And I'm 100 % into
it. But also even more and everything else that
they've put out. So, yeah, I'll go with Sixpence
as as like another one for me, but deeply like.
Nothing to be ashamed there. No, they're such
a good band, such a good band. All right. Well,
let's talk about what we've been listening to
lately. So in the Christian music world, what's
what's something you guys have been listening
to lately? I've been, uh, I've been listening
to that new, uh, John Van Dusen. Uh, yeah, that's,
I'm still not over that third record. I go back
to it and listen to it all the time. What's,
what's the name of it? It's escaping me. The
I am origami part two, that one. Yes. Yeah. Uh,
yeah. Yeah. So good. Yeah. Yeah. JP I put the
same thing down because that record just came
out. I think this past Friday Yeah Yeah, you
sent it to me. I did. Yeah. Yes as long as I
am in the tent of this body I will Make a joyful
noise. So the longest album title outside of
probably like it something Sufjan was done over
time, but 18 songs on that record. And there's
a part two coming because he couldn't fit them
all. In the end, it'll be like a triple record,
basically. But it's so good. Yeah, I can't wait
to cover some John Van Dusen on this podcast.
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, he he is he is incredible.
And and You know, I listen to I like John Mark
McMillan a lot. I'm always coming back to his
yeah to his music Rest in peace Yeah, he just
just officially like quit making music John Mark
McMillan. Oh, yeah, sadly, yeah Sorry, I didn't
mean to drop that on you in the middle of the
podcast. No, I thought he like when you said
rest in peace. It could have been worse. I was
like, dude, it's all right, brother. Take a break.
Don't write a song for a little while. Yeah.
Yeah. I'm just glad you're okay. Anyway. Yeah.
It's a really good one. Brandon, what about you?
I've rediscovered recently, it's a side project
of Mark Solomon and Steve, his name's Dale, but
it's a side project called White Lighter and
it's just a one -off album they released 10 years
ago, but I discovered it two or three years ago
and it's sort of this... This this hidden the
third album of neon horse is the best way to
describe it is that it feels it's the same voices
it's it's a lot of the same people that are still
involved with it like Jason Martin is still involved
in the Production of it. So it feels so much
like neon horse So it's a really cool just kind
of this strange like album. And I mean, I think
it gets maybe about 70 listens on Spotify a month
and probably 50 of those are me. But so it's
just this like very hidden, obscure album. But
like it's it's 30 minutes of just really good
music. Mark Solomon, that voice. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
That's awesome. I love that. So one of the things
we'd like to do when we have a guest on is to
let our guests bring one of their favorite records
to us for us to get to spend some time with.
So John Paul, what album have you brought for
us to talk about today? Well, The Hunger by Seven
Day Jesus. Yes, it is. It was one of those records
when I heard it. It kind of started to put a
lot of things together for me. Because at that
particular time, I was really growing spiritually.
But all the music I was listening to, again,
you know, bands, I mean, listening to Rich Mullins,
listening to You know trying to get some meat
some theology But then but then also like I was
really getting into indie rock music and It was
just kind of like they all came together with
that record and I was like wow, this is It I
was like, oh, this is interesting Like like I
need I need to I need to digest this record Yeah,
I was trying to think back on this one, too.
I can't remember what exposed me to Seven Day
Jesus as I think through it. It might have just
been a five minute walk record sampler. It was.
It was. I do remember. I do remember because
because you and I, I think we. I remember us
talking about it because it was a sampler that.
One of their take time to listen. Yeah, it was
five iron frenzy. I mean, that was we were getting
really into them. But but yeah, but heard this
this thing and I was like, OK. Wait, so. So it's
like a little bit of. sunny day real estate like
you can kind of you can kind of hear that sort
of yeah indie rock that little beginnings of
emo but then it was i was like man i don't know
there's just something about the lyrics like
there's some meat here you know and uh i was
like man i need to explore that i was thinking
about it today it's kind of like I was like,
it's basically Presbyterian Weezer. I was like,
wow, I'm so depraved. This is a great hook. That's
a great way to put it. Yeah, I remember I was
eating up. Brandon knows this already. I was
eating up everything tooth and nail and and then
when I found five iron frenzy started listening
to all then there's all these five minute walk
bands as well and so I'm like buying all these
samplers and so I'm pretty sure it was one of
their take time to listen samplers that came
out that kind of exposed us to seven day Jesus.
Do you remember going did you go with me to see
seven day Jesus play in Jackson? Yes. I do remember
us going to see Seven Day Jesus, yes. I can't
remember who they play with. Super weird tour.
So Seven Day Jesus was second. I think the opener
opener was All -Star United before their first
record came out. And the headliner was third
day. I do. Yep, that's I absolutely remember
that. What a bizarro tour. But this was like
when third day was still like it was like right
around when the first record came out. They were
like edgy. They weren't like mainstream CCM at
this point. Yeah, it was like consuming fire.
I think, yeah, that first record. Yeah. Man,
that was a fun time. What a time to be alive.
It really was. That was a really awesome show.
I remember having a conversation. I remember
meeting Brian McSweeney, who's the lead singer
of 7 to Jesus at that show. Super down to earth
guy. And I was totally fanboying, just like getting
the chance to talk to him. And I remember him
asking me, I was talking about how much I love
the record. And he was like, we're working on
the second one. He's like, what would you want
to be different about, like, another record from
us? And I was like, I've never had an artist
ask me that before. And I think I remember I
remember telling him, it'd be cool to put some
acoustic guitar on there, which they ended up
putting a lot of acoustic guitar on that second
record. So I like to think that I was very influential
in the forefront. Second release by Seven Day
Jesus that came out just the next year. I think
you, I think you probably were. I think so. I
mean, I mean, he probably knew who he was talking
to. He got a sense of it. This. Oh yeah. No,
not at all. But, um, but I I'd love to get into
that second record at some point too, because
so. This first album just some opening thoughts
and then we'll talk about it. So a little bit
of info Before we dig into it. So a little bio
on it. So the hunger is the first album released
by 7a Jesus Came out in 1996 They recorded with
future 500 frenzy producer Masaki Liu and plank
guy bassist Lewis Garcia It was released on five
-minute walk records with its follow up coming
out on four front records. And so they moved
from this independent label to kind of one of
the big heavy hitter labels. So many Jesus toured
the hunger with Plank Guy and Fold Zandura and
a longer tour with All Star United and Third
Day, which we were able to to catch them on.
So that OK, so this record, like you said, John
Paul, for me, it carries a lot of that early
kind of emo vibe in the days of a band like Sunday
Day Real Estate where we're bridging the gap
between alternative music and what would become
emo. And so it's kind of, it's in an interesting
spot musically there because you have to think
about this. So this record came out in 96. 1995
is when Jesus Freak came out. by DC Talk, which
was kind of like alternative is everything in
Christian music. And then you have a band like
7A Jesus, just the next year say, well, actually
we're already like progressing into something
else. And so it's a pretty progressive record
in that sense at its time. It really was. Yeah.
And so it was really just ahead of its time.
Yeah. And then they do a follow up just one year
later, which is very different. A lot more pop
and a lot more hooks and a lot better production,
obviously, because it's on forefront records.
And at the time, I was so enamored with. this
early seven day Jesus that I'm like, what is
this garbage? I didn't super love it. But man,
as I go back and listen to that second record
now, I'm like, this thing's so good. It's it's
a phenomenal album. And I think it rivals like
anything that forefront records put out. And
so I'm looking forward to talking about that
one day, too. So, Brandon, for you, this is your
first listen. Yeah, so I don't know if you have
any kind of opening thoughts or anything that
We'll dive into it going into this I never listened
this band and for whatever reason I thought that
they were like this like Chris Tomlin type like
worship like a 90s Chris Tomlin So yeah going
into this that was my thoughts. Yeah It ended
up being a little different. Yeah, a little different.
Yeah, that's fun I love that. Well, let's kind
of get into it track by track. Um, the hunger
70 Jesus. Um, yeah, JP, you have any more opening
thoughts before we kind of dig into it? Um, no,
no, I think it was just, let's just dig into
it. Just one, one thing that I would say, um,
and I think it's going to become very clear.
Um, I Brian McSweeney was the best vocalist in
Christian music in 1996. Yeah, it wasn't even
close. Yeah, hands down. What what an incredible
singer. I was reading an interview with him to
do some research for this and it was talking
about like all of his musical influences. And
he talked about he was talking about bands that
he liked, like I don't, Pavement and a lot of
these like heavier whatever bands. But he's cited
as his main vocal influence, Michael English,
if you remember him. Which he does sing a lot
like Michael English, which is just kind of interesting.
So that's a very, he has a very CCM like vocal
influence on top of this like really heavy kind
of music, which is just a fascinating combination.
All right. So track by track first song on the
hunger is a time to heal. What do you guys think
about this one? I would I would be curious to
to to hear to hear the new guys. So yes. Yeah.
So every week I feel like I talk about how I
feel like the first song is Maybe the most important
because it really sets the tone because there's
some albums that The first track is just like
terrible and it's like you have to you're almost
digging yourself out of the hole Yeah, but like
I said going into it. I'm expecting it to be
this like don't know this like some strings and
very soft and piano so it was a really nice surprise
to be like oh that's not what this band is yeah
so for me I I think it was a great opener like
it is someone who For me, I have no buy -in of
this album is good or bad or anything. But immediately
when it hits, I want to listen to more like it's
I'm excited to dive into this album. So I think
that's that's always cool when it's like I said,
for me, it's like this might be one of the worst
albums I've ever listened to. But it's oh, I
want to dive into this. So yeah, I feel like
it's a great guitar. But yeah, like it's as an
as a new person going into this, it hooked me.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like this one, um, it's
got a good amount of energy kind of going into
it. Um, you get, you get where the name of the
band, seven day Jesus comes from. Um, because
he says in the lyrics, not just Sunday, like
the idea of like every day we want to be pursuing
Jesus and following Jesus. Um, I do feel like
this, this song is kind of like, um, It's a showcase
for what the whole album is going to be like
it sits kind of in the middle or the center of
like where the album moves. Yeah, so it just
kind of fits really well as as an opening track.
Yeah. What do you think? Yeah. Well, I mean,
I was just blowing like. I don't know. I think
you've you've you've said so much about it already,
but it's just I don't know, it was just to me,
from my experience, kind of where I was when
this record came out, I think that was, it really
spoke to me because so much of the music that
was out was, especially in Christian music was
just very, everything was happy, just very, you
know, bubbly, if you will. But but I'm hearing
something in this that's like, you know, it's
I'm not being very clear right now, but something
a little deeper and more. Well, it just did.
It was like, you know, sometimes walking, like
getting into the deep things of the Lord, like
there's a lot of pain there. There's a lot of
death, dying, dying to self. Like it's a painful
process. And here's somebody singing about that
very thing. And I'm just like, okay, I can connect
with this. This feels authentic to where I was
at at the time. I think that's why it meant so
much to me. That's good. I love that. Let's move
on to strength. Joel, what are you thinking about
strength? So strength is one of my favorite tracks
on the record I love I love that the opening
of it Just like the you get a sense from just
this picking of this guitar like where this is
going I think this is one of the catchiest songs
on the album It gives me a real you you mentioned
like reformed Weezer like this This is the song
that gives me the real Weezer vibe or blur it
totally does. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I love this song
because I think it's super catchy and I love
the line Sometimes I think about the cross, but
sometimes I'm thinking about myself because how
well does that capture like all of our experiences
of like So often we're just thinking about ourselves
when we need to be focused in on Jesus and here
he is So I love this is a great track Mm -hmm.
Yeah really is Yeah, sometimes I think of going
back to the time that I want to do then I get
a glimpse of you Yeah, yeah awesome Yeah, I Lyrically
I liked it and I think musically I differ a little
bit because I feel like it it was a little like
chaotic and I I don't know I guess it was like
just that like One tick from me whereas like
that line of like, oh, I I don't know where like
I guess it for me It's like I don't know where
this is gonna go But also I'm sitting here being
like I'm the second track into this being like,
oh this isn't 90s worship music So but like I
I do think it is cool and you know with a lot
of these albums it like it is cool trying to
put this lens on what What it was meaning back
then like it's this album is very different if
it's released this year versus then, right? so
it is thinking like Okay, like what's the differences?
But yeah, I felt like it was maybe just like
that tick over like of Going all over. Yeah,
we need to get you listen to some Weezer. Yeah
You know and another thing I thought about you
know was you know The year this came out, 96,
I mean, this was, you know, teenage angst was
all, was all the rage back then. Like, I mean,
I mean, that was, that was just kind of like
in pop culture in general, like, uh, you know,
an alternative music in general, it was just,
it was just this, uh, yeah. Like, like you, you
saw that like even with like Nirvana coming,
like this was right. This was right after, you
know, several years after them. But, but it's
just, that was kind of the mood of that generation,
you know? Yeah. And, and I think he captured
it. Well, you know, it was like, like, wow. Yeah.
Anyway. Yep. So that goes into track three flyby.
Yeah. What'd you guys think about flyby? It's
just, it's just incredible. There's, there's,
there's no, there's no track on this that I don't
like. Yeah. I mean, it's just, I think what it
is, like every, every track on this, it's like,
he's just, it, it's, it's almost like, like pulling
a layer away. It's like, you're seeing him almost
in real time. Just, just discovering. the, you
know, the deep things of the Lord. And with that,
and in doing that, it's, you know, when you see
the holiness of God, you're confronted with your
own unholiness, your own sinfulness. And yeah,
so yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I think this one
this one when this one kicks off you're like
oh okay like this is this is pretty heavy um
yeah which which is interesting that you end
up with like this heavy heavy guitar and then
you go to like these like soft melodic vocals
um which which is kind of leading into that early
emo kind of feel of what's going on but then
these like big choruses um Think my favorite
my favorite part of this song though is like
when you almost feel like the song ends and there's
like a Musical turn that it takes where it builds
back in to the same song But it almost feels
like a different song building back into the
same song. It's kind of a cool thing that they
do So this track is me and Joel like we don't
We don't talk beforehand of like, oh here's my
rating or that rating but earlier he was telling
me a little bit about how this album like really
didn't have wasn't overly produced versus like
the next album had a lot of production and so
like and I'd be interested like on with your
take on this John Paul but like so with this
track I felt like it wasn't overly produced but
I felt like it's one of those tracks where I
think a little more production would have helped
a lot. So I guess like for you, is it something
that you think that the rawness does make it
a lot better? Or, or do you think like a little
production like does help with a track like this?
I don't think there's a right answer or a wrong
answer there. I mean, well, I mean, I think it's
a great question. Yeah. To me I don't I Think
the rawness of it is kind of what what I connected
with because it was this I Think did well, okay
Let me let me put it this way. I heard years
ago. This is without getting too far off track
I had I had a musician a guy used to work with
or work for at a guitar shop. One of the things
he told me, he said, if it's a good song, it's
going to be a good recording. And what he meant
by that, like he was referring to like the early
Beatles stuff, like, you know, you know, four,
maybe eight tracks, you know, production wise
is not much there, but if it's a good song, it's
going to connect. Yeah. And I think think that's
kind of the way I take a song like this, you
know, it's just But the thing is is like with
a good song like it's to you like you could you
could cover it You can do it like a different
genre all together. But it's a and it's hard
a good song It's gonna it's gonna connect. So
I don't know. I Like the way it was produced,
but I could I could imagine it being like if
it if it were more slick, you know, it, you know,
it's like, I say, I like raw stuff, but then
like, you know what? Two years after this, that
was when Jimmy world did clarity and it was,
and it was an absolute masterpiece of production.
So, you know, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
That's a really good point. Sometimes it's hard
to like, um, kind of nail down. Thoughts on that
kind of thing track four is leads us into the
forgive song. So we've got forgive me Yeah, I
I think this is so this is a different feel for
the record But yeah, it definitely is I love
the lead guitar that's going on and I love actually
the groove that the song gets into I like that
there that we've got like a female vocal yeah
like added in as well and i think it's such a
good bridge with them like singing together too
so um yeah i like i like this one a lot i feel
like the female vocalist is what stood out to
me on it i really liked and like not knowing
the band and i couldn't really like find this
online but like was that someone who was it was
it just a random musician or was it someone who
Like and into who it was that was providing that
I have no idea. Honestly, it's a great question.
Yeah Yeah The trivia listeners, yeah, I don't
know but I like it Joel you should have asked
Brian McSweeney when you you're right I should
have forgiven giving him his marching orders
for the next record Brian come on the pod. We
love you Yeah. Yeah. What'd you think about that
one, JP? Dude, it's, it's, it's just, it's great,
man. I mean, I'm just as, as we're, as we're
doing this, I'm looking, I've actually pulled
up the lyrics and I'm just looking through them
and I'm, man, I'm just, man. Okay. Like this
line, although I love you father, I forgot to
eat my bread again or today again. my spirit
seems to be so strong but my flesh is so weak
again i need to know you lord so tired of waiting
for another day to draw a line now step across
i can't see you but you're still there i'm following
by faith so lead me anyway i just yeah yeah he's
a really he's a really simple lyricist but it
just works because it's real and um and and and
it it comes across as being as being real when
he's singing and I love that I love that well
you know like a couple of weeks ago you guys
y 'all did the uh the whole EP by Pedro yeah
the lion and and that's I think that was a it's
a very similar thing like I'm I connect to the
you know the struggle there you know, is like
because in my in my experience, you know, the
Christian life dealing with like like following.
I mean salvation itself is is free. It's it's
it's something that we we don't have to strive
for. It's it's a gift but but walking with the
lord that that's a that cost us dearly. Yeah.
You know and uh and I don't know. I just I've
always loved people, you know, being real about
that. And I don't know. Yeah, I feel that one
hundred percent. Yeah. So we move to forgive
you. Oh, yeah. Go ahead, Brandon. So I'll take
my take is context is so important. And I was
thankful on Jesus Freak Hideout. they had um
a little blurb about each song um about kind
of and so for me because when i first listened
i'm like it who like what what's who's what's
going on um yeah but i so i i thought this was
one of my favorite tracks on the album because
i i really respect a song that Think we need
to get this out and we're not going to try to
water this down because Like Christian Christian
movies a lot of times you'll have the bad guy
in the film It's still a person who's really
a good person, you know, like it's they're not
doing a lot of bad stuff It's just they fit to
their mom and they actually got you know, they're
not going to a friend's house to study the basketball
game and I I thought to myself when I heard this
I thought of I know like back in I think it's
2012 Showbread had a release and they got in
so much hot water for just not being like chill
about the albums and or the lyrics and so for
me I thought I can only imagine how much this
was I don't know, controversial back in 19, you
said in 96, 97 when this was released. Yeah.
Like I was thinking, man, it just was it like
pulled from like Family Christian once they read
the lyrics or. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely it's
raw. There's no doubt. There's no doubt there.
So I don't know. I mean, to me, like. That guitar
line right at the beginning of that song like
you just you know, you're about to I Mean, it
sounds like trouble, you know, you know what
I mean? Like it just I don't know like it's Yeah,
this one I Don't know what else to say other
than what you've said already. I mean, I don't
know what to add to it. But man, it's just it
is so it incredibly Powerful song. Yeah, it definitely
takes some guts to do a song like this on your
first record because your careers like Potentially
hanging in the balance, right and obviously they
went on to More success with forefront records
after this But but yeah, I even today though
I It's hard for me to listen to this one. But
I think that I think that that's a good thing
As I listen to it and then obviously so Context
like he's writing this song because a friend
of his is raped and he doesn't know how to deal
with the feelings of that and the emotions of
it and he's wrestling with how how Like can I
forgive someone that has done this to someone
that I love? And so the first verse is about
the guy that raped his friend, but then verse
two is he's talking about God and how, and his
own sin and how God readily forgave him for his
sin. So why should he not be able to forgive?
There's just a lot, man, there's a lot there.
It reminds me of a, there's a Sufjan song on
Illinois. called John Wayne Gacy Jr., where he's
telling a story about one of the most notorious
serial killers in American history. And he uses
a line where he talks about how John Wayne Gacy
would bury bodies under the floorboards of his
house. But then the song ends with him saying,
but in my best behavior, I'm really just like
him look beneath the floorboards to see what
I've had. And It's like the same idea of just
like, we're all sinners and we've, uh, if we
have been forgiven, what right do we have to
not, not be willing to show forgiveness to others?
Yeah. It's challenging. And, and do you guys
ever define, find this to be the case to where
like forgiving someone for what they do against
you. is a lot easier than forgiving someone of
what they do against someone you love. That's
a hard thing. It's almost harder. I completely
agree with that. I think you're right. Track
six is pavement. This one is so heavy at the
beginning, and I love it. I'm here for it. Yeah.
So this one, like this one makes me feel a little
bit of like the production of the whole record
that it's really simple production. There's nothing
flashy about it at all, but it's a really full
sound at the same time. And so it captures. it
captures the drums and the bass and the guitars
even though it's really simple it captures those
in a really full way and I think that's kind
of showcased by a song like this when these guitars
kick in that they're they're really heavy and
really full yeah I like I like this one yeah
for me I really love the song I really like the
guitar in it too and I really just love the the
struggle they're painting of what this man's
going through and honestly this whole album what
stood out was uh you said before the lyrics it's
it's simple so we're not doing anything crazy
with them but every track the lyrics were refreshingly
good and i think with the 90s yeah a lot of times
that's my struggle is maybe not you know, being
more than 92, it's not really appreciating getting
into music until the mid 2000s. So a lot of 90s
stuff comes across as very cheesy musically and
lyrically. So for me, that's what stood out is
that I think with even the tracks on here that
maybe I didn't love, it was never a lyric thing.
It was just the music thinking, oh, I want to
tweak this or tweak that. and so to me it was
just really refreshing on this album to think
yeah everyone the lyrics are it's simple and
it's it's done well yeah yeah such a good man
i just love i just love this record just sitting
here and just kind of thinking about it man it
like it really it really rocked my world when
it When it, when I first, when I first heard
it, I was just like, wow, I can't believe this
exists. It was just, I don't know. Yeah. It's
a good, that's a good word to Brandon that, um,
something about this album that's good is that
this is an extremely Christian album. Um, like
there's no hiding it at all. It's like out there,
but it never comes across in like a cheesy, um,
kind of way whereas their next record has one
of those songs which is pretty pretty cheesy
um but that's what happens when you sign to like
a major christian label so um i do i do love
that about about this about this one that's really
good next up we have the hunger um for me i i
think it was a cool uh a nice slow down to kind
of take a little bit of a break from the heaviness
Um, and it really showcases, uh, the vocals on
this one. So I think it was, it was a nice, just
kind of break while getting to appreciate, uh,
the vocals. What a great, I, I can't say enough
about this guy's vocals. I mean, they're just,
they're just, they're just like, Who is another
vocalist that that was like there was even like
him like Like I'm thinking about it at that particular
time At that like I mean there was Jeff Buckley.
Yeah, I mean, you know, you know, it's probably
the closest comparison Yeah, it's just I don't
I don't know I mean there's there was just That's
what I loved about this this record both sonically
lyrically just thematically is it's just it's
stripped down. It's raw. It's honest and and
then Like it there's it doesn't hide behind anything
like like it's just I don't Yeah, I agree. I
This this is a great song. It's up there for
me on the album I think the chorus is great.
The vocals are great. I love just the idea behind
it, too. Just hungering, hungering for Jesus
and time with him and being in a like being putting
yourself in a place of need. I think is is such
a such an important like theme. I think this
this song also showcases the fact that Brian
McSweeney is like a great guitar player. When
that classical guitar kicks in. Um, that's him
like cranking on, on that thing. And he doesn't,
the thing about this record is he does not show
off at all on the guitar. Um, but he's an incredible
guitar player. And, um, I don't, you probably
don't know this Brandon, but, um, but there was
a point in time when, um, audiojournal was going
through a transition and guitarists. I think
after Bloom, their guitar player had been with
them from the beginning, stepped away, and Brian
actually stepped in and was the lead guitar player
for Audio Adrenaline for a while. I had forgotten
that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I saw that tour. Did you
go and see them? I think I did. Yeah. I think
I did. Yeah. And that guitar work on that Audio
Adrenaline album, Bloom, is no joke. That guy
was an incredible player. And Brian, I mean,
he's great. And so I love I love that about this,
too. But yeah, that's a great song. I love the
build up to the last chorus. It's really cool.
Really cool. Track number eight is restrained.
Yeah. Yeah. What do you guys think about this
one? Go ahead. I was getting worried because
i'm like this is gonna be the track where i'm
like i'm not strong. It's like it's amazing.
Um, but no for me, um um, so earlier I had made
a comment about how I felt like one of the ones
jumped around like a little bit and I felt like
this one did it too, but I I enjoyed the jumping
around. I think that whereas the other one was
maybe just a A step or two like over. Um, I liked
and I think once again I like the female vocal
showing back up. And I think that's what's so
weird is that with both the tracks that she was
on, that was the highlight of the track. So that's
why it made me think it's weird that there's
no, oh, that's Shelly or whoever singing. So
to me, it's cool when you can have something
that's a little piece mean a lot to it. Yeah,
JP, what'd you think about this one? Oh, man.
It's just phenomenal. I don't know. I don't know
what else I can add about the specific track
that I haven't already said. It's just more of
the same. I mean, it's just, yeah. Yeah, I think
this one. So for me, when you hit this point
in the album, like this is like... my favorite
part of this record. And this one really, the
hunger starts it, but it leads into this one.
I love the space that they give on the verse
for the vocals to shine. You have this rhythm
going, but the bass will hit a note and just
sustain it for a while, and it keeps hitting
the same... note just sustained over and over
again. And it creates this bed for the vocals
just to kind of like stand out on top. And I
think that's really cool. And the chorus with
the echoing melody with the female vocal, like
you said, Brandon, I think it's cool. And I love
that it ends like in a pretty small kind of way.
And so this one's definitely a highlight of the
record for me. So yeah. Next, we move to delightful
you. What are your thoughts? You know, this I
was thinking about this again to bring up to
keep bringing up Pedro the lion. But I was just
I was thinking about what was the name? There
was there was a song that that says, oh, man,
Joe, you're going to have to help me here, brother.
It talks about the wisdom of man. Unless you
plan to change the truth to accommodate the wisdom
of man. What's the name of that song? I can't
remember, but I know what you're talking about.
Anyway, that's exactly what I think of with this
song. You know, again, it's coming with this
idea of doubt. Like, can I trust you with my
doubt? Like, that's kind of, that's what I remember
about this track. Like, it's just, I was like,
Lord, can I trust you? So it's like, this whole,
again, this whole record, it's like this. It's
like one constant prayer. That's the way I always
took it. It's like, can I trust you? Or it's
like trying to get a feral cat to come and eat
out of your hand. It's essentially what this
reminds me of, this entire record. No approaching
God with With all of your doubts and yeah anyway
And I think all of these songs are just it's
it's kind of like they're taking Another is taking
another step. Mm -hmm. Like I look at it as just
one big narrative Anyway, mm -hmm. That's cool
Brandon. What do you think about this one? Yeah,
I really like the bass line in it I think too
what's interesting is there's like a shift after
the first verse and I felt like the the second
half of the track was like I enjoyed it more
um so but I thought that was interesting whenever
there's a track where you you're used to like
albums saying oh I like the second half of the
album better or the first half so I feel like
it's interesting whenever there's like a song
and you're like Oh in the three or four minutes,
this was on I like this two minute section better.
Yeah, um, but yeah, I liked it and Like I feel
like that's it can be challenging whenever you
do have a shift like that. But yeah, I enjoyed
it that bass line Sheesh It's crazy. I love the
groove of this one. We're basically just got
that bass going and like a really tight snare
that they're hitting Um And I love the part when
the last verse is like just drums and vocals.
And then it then it kicks in again. Yeah, this
one's just got a different feel from most of
the rest of the record, which I think is a great
change of pace. Yeah. And I love a band that
can that can do that and pull it off. And it's
still full kind of cohesive. And then they do
this thing at the end of the track where again,
it sounds like what would be its own like track.
Yeah. You've got this little acoustic transition
or interlude kind of thing that's the melody
of the last song. But it's it's it's connected
to the song before, which is just I don't remember
how that worked out on a CD, but I know in my
Apple music, it's like not its own thing, which
I thought was interesting. But it leads into
the last track of the album, ashamed, ashamed.
Yeah, beautiful. Yeah. If I'm not mistaken, Joel,
I think we we covered this in Ransom Tree, I
think we covered this song. I could see that.
John Paul, I was actually thinking, I wrote a
note down that says this reminds me of a Ransom
Tree song that we never... One of those maybe
that never got on an album that was kind of on
that second unreleased thing that we were working
on. But you might be right in the fact that...
We either covered this or I think we completely
ripped it off and wrote something that sounded
just like it. No, man. What an incredible song.
I mean, I, I mean, this, to me, this is the,
this is the quintessential, like, like this is,
this is the song on the album. Like, I don't
know. It just. Again, I keep hitting on this
whole narrative. It just sort of brings it into
completion. It's like, Hey, we've gone through
the struggle. You've, you know, you've, you've
seen me at my rawest now through that I've seen
your goodness. Um, yeah, I'm not ashamed. Yeah.
This is, yeah, I think it's good. I love the,
um, I love how it's now I'm ashamed. Like you,
Like he showcases his shame throughout the song
until the very end. And that's like, now I'm
not ashamed. Yeah. And this, I think you're right.
I think this is like the. This like what? I don't
know. There probably weren't really singles,
but this should have been like the single of
the album that would have like would have stood
out. It reminds me of that instrumental part
that it jams out into at the end of the song.
is so good. You've got that guitar riff that
sounds like almost like a collective soul kind
of guitar. Like, yeah, it is. Yeah. Yeah. And
this is like the most emo song on the album.
So I'm just. Yeah. Felt like it is another track
that highlighted the vocal as well. Yeah, and
I think it was a it was a great ending to the
album It's going back to the beginning. The first
song is very important, but also the last song
Yeah, it's like what's what's in between that
and there's some times where the back the back
end of an album is let's just stuff the ones
that maybe like we're just filling in yeah, and
I think with this album it improved like it gets
better The second half of it and I felt like
that was cool that by the end of this Like, you
know some I feel like there's some albums you
listen to and okay when when is this over how
many tracks do we have left and To me what was
cool was as I said the beginning is going into
it not Not knowing the band not knowing the album.
It was cool to get to the end and still be enjoying
it Yeah, there was no part which this is probably
bleeding into like thoughts on the album but
to me it was just it was cool to get to the end
and go that was a nice album there was in this
part of all right can we wrap this up because
I want to get back to my music you know and I
was thinking about the way that you think about
music sometimes Brandon with these last tracks
is you try and think about what would this be
like as like a last track live in a concert and
thinking this this would be the song that I would
want to hear them in with because I want to like
I want to hear that instrumental part just kicking
at the end of their set I think that would be
so cool so yeah I love that all right well let's
get down to the real part of this and talk about
any final thoughts and our ratings of the record
from one to five I don't mind leading out here
so I have to admit that a lot of this for me
is probably nostalgia speaking and like John
Paul's talked about how this is just this was
such an influential record for me early on and
one of my favorite albums when I was in high
school, the end of my high school career. And
so just super important to me. So but with that,
it's not a five for me, because I recognize that
it's it's a first album by this band. And had
they continued past album two, I would have loved
to hear like what would have happened with them.
And Brian McSweeney, obviously, he went on to
make a lot of other music in different settings.
And it's all fantastic. um but um but um yeah
so anyways i don't know if it's nostalgia but
i'm gonna give this one um a pretty solid four
um but and in my heart i think it's probably
even more than that so yeah i would have to i
mean for me it was kind of like i remember when
I heard this record, it really, it pushed me
creatively as far as like songwriting for, you
know, or wanting to do songwriting. Like for,
you know, for Ransom Tree. And it was very influential,
but I was like, this is the kind of music that
I would like to create. Like it gave me a standard.
Yeah. I think if I was honest, I was kind of
thinking for myself, but just to be different,
let me let me give it a. Can we do fractions?
You can tell. I often get things at three point
two. OK, well, I'm going to give this one a four
point two. Yes. I mean, it's a great record.
I love that. That's awesome. Yeah, it's it's
nice getting to see how scientific Joel's is
because it'll be like a yeah This was a 1 .7,
but this one was definitely a five And I remember
the first few ratings we did I would sit there
and think I kind of just looked at the CD went
I'm feeling a three Which uh for me, so I I think
that's where I land on this album is a three
But it was like I said going into it was thinking
oh, man It's gonna be a challenge to listen to
like 90s like soft worship type things but to
me what's cool is I love getting to listen to
a band or an album I've never listened to and
when after that album it makes me want to go
listen to what went on So to me, that's what's
cool is that I'm excited to after this podcast
go and listen and get like i'm excited to see
how okay they've talked about how there's the
shift so i'm excited to see oh let me go listen
to this other album and compare it um so to me
that's that it's just cool when a band can do
that when like i said at the end of it it's not
okay cool we've done this review i can put this
band back on the shelf So, yeah. Yeah, Brandon,
I think I can I can pretty solidly say for you
that you are going to much more enjoy their second
record. And you might actually love it. So I
definitely encourage you to check it out. We
didn't talk about this, but I've got it. Since
we're talking about Seven Day Jesus, I just have
to throw out that Happy Christmas Volume One.
Seven day. Jesus. Oh my God covered. Oh, holy
night. And it is standard for Oh, holy night.
Oh my gosh. Till this day. Yes. So much. Yes.
Wow. Want to talk about a song that showcases
Brian McSweeney's vocals. Holy cow. The man can
sing. Yeah. In fact, that might be my favorite
seven day Jesus track. I definitely think it's
the one I listen to most. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's
incredible. It is so stinking good. It's it's
so great. All right. Well, let's talk about the
lyric of the week. All right. So the lyric of
the week comes from the song Restrained. i still
remember when i held my breath and dove right
in and never wondered would the water hold so
take me to a place where i won't hide but seek
your face after all i've never drowned before
um i love that love love that that's actually
some really good writing right there so Well,
John Paul, man, this has been so fun having you
join us for this. It's always a joy just to chat
and catch up, but it's super fun getting to talk
about music and reminisce a little bit. So I
know that you mentioned you're a little bit of
a hermit or something, but is there any way or
anywhere that anybody can find you or do you
have any music that you've made that you want
to plug? I mean, I've got a record that I made
an EP a few years ago. Yeah, you can find John
Paul Dove. You can find me on Spotify. Basically
anywhere you find music, it's on there. It's
called My Son the Brawler. Yeah. It's a great
EP. I love it. You did a great job with that
one. Well, you're very generous. Thank you. And
of course, we made some music together, some
of which I want you to find and some of which
we can just pretend that it doesn't exist. Man,
I tell you, this time of the year, this time
of the year, I do just, man, I was, I listened
to one of our tracks this morning. I don't know.
Just, just the fall makes me feel all nostalgic.
Yeah, no doubt. It does. I mean, I have an autumn
playlist. That's one of my favorites. And so
our first track off the Bellador record, Autumn
Fair is on there because of course it is. It's
about autumn. There you go. So that's great.
You wrote that. It's a great song. I love that.
Well, it was, man, those were fun days. I think
fondly of them. Same, my friend. Well, dude,
thanks again. We appreciate it and look forward
to maybe having you on again sometime to talk
about some of your other favorite records. So
absolutely. And Brandon, it was great to meet
you. It was nice meeting you, too. All right.
Love you, brother. Thanks, everybody, for listening.
Like, subscribe, all the fun things. Give us
a review and we will look forward to seeing you
next week.