Are you listening? Well hello everyone and welcome
to Hey Are You Listening? This is a podcast exploring
the past, present and future of Christian music.
My name is Joel and I'm here with my good friend
Brandon and we connected over a mutual love of
some certain artists but we also have pretty
different tastes when it comes to things and
so this is a fun journey for us as we get to
expose each other to new things But also sometimes
have some friends come along for the ride with
us. And so today I'm getting exposed to something
new for me, which is really fun. But Brandon,
how's it going today? How you doing? I'm doing
great. Yeah, I'm excited about today. I feel
like we've I've learned that for you was very
much a tooth and nail like experience growing
up. And for me, it was way more of a goatee records.
So I feel like I'm on I'm like I have the home
field advantage today, so. It's always kind of
a scary thing, though, when you bring one of
your favorite records and submit it for conversation.
So are you feeling nervous about that at all
or? It's a little nervous. I could I can definitely
see you walking away being like, Brandon, this
is a pleasant surprise or. Brandon this is a
one -star You think it could go either way that's
just the magic of John Rubin you can love him
you can hate him All right. So speaking of today.
The question is hey Are you listening to the
boy versus the cynic by John Rubin? So I'm excited
to dig into this as this is again kind of a new
record for me But before we do that Brandon you
inform me that you have a game for us today.
Yes I got a game for you Joel. So this like retribution
for like all the past games So for John Rubin
anyone who's a fan of his knows that he just
like comes up with just these like Just these
different aliases that he puts out. So he goes
by all these different names on there. So today
I have a mix of real aliases of John Rubin and
fake ones. So we're gonna see if you can spot
the fakes out of these ones. Can I ask you a
question about this before we get started? Yes.
Where is John Rubin using these aliases? He just
like throws it out in a song and he's good. Yeah,
I go by this name. I go by that name. So so it's
not like different like anonymous Twitter accounts
where he gets. Yeah, I don't I don't think yeah,
like it's just John Rubin being like, yeah, I
go by these names. No one. All right. I'm ready.
I'm ready. Let's do this. All right. So first
off, Rubalu. So I'm telling you if this is real
or fake real or fake rubele I'm gonna go fake.
That's right John Rue John Rue sounds like that's
what like his buddies called him in college.
So I'm gonna go yes real. All right, so far you
got it J Rube J Rube I'm gonna go with that one's
that one's a real one, too. It's fake. Oh, you
got me. All right next one Jack zappin It's real
Don Rubio I'm gonna go fake again. It's real
what? Rubik's Cube oh man I'm gonna say this
one's real, but it's gonna be fake. It's fake
Johnny Rubonic Real that's real. I got it was
so out there. I knew it had to be real the Dippity
-Doo -er Again, so out there. I'm gonna go with
real. You got it and finally Rubatron Rubatron
fake that's fake. Yeah. All right. All right.
I think I figured it out by the end If it actually
sounds like something that's made up. It's real
It sounds real then it's probably fake Is that
it that's it awesome awesome. Well, that was
a good time. Thank you It's good to be reminded
of the fact that I don't know everything. But
it also just shows that I haven't listened to
a ton of John Rubin. One of my friends, he was
a student pastor when I was in college that I
volunteered under. He and some of his buddies
were big John Rubin fans, and so I got exposed
to some stuff then, but never really took the
time, I don't know why, to listen. or maybe because
I was too busy listening to Tooth and Nail records.
Who knows? But yeah, this will be fun. Before
we get deep into that though, today, let's talk
real quick about what's in the news. So I've
just got one news item for us today unless you've
got anything to add but I found out the other
day as I was looking through my socials is that
Petra has a new record coming out and it's the
first Petra album in over 20 years and it's gonna
be called hope And they actually have a new single
out right now coming from that record called
deliver us so Yeah, this is kind of interesting
for me because Petra was my first like rock concert
This would be middle school for me. So probably
like 92 mm -hmm went to a camp and they played
And so I immediately there bought I think their
record unseen power that they were touring at
the time and then went back and got like beyond
belief and And listen to some of the other stuff,
but I feel like I like quickly moved on from
Petra in my life Yeah, but they also played like
a pretty pivotal role like at the right moment
Do you have any any kind of history with Petra
at all? The only Petra album I remember listening
to was I want to say I don't know if this is
like the album cover or if this is just like
a picture in the booklet but like they're in
like a van Or maybe like a bus or like a train
And I guess the lead singers wearing like a red
shirt or something a red jacket Yeah, that's
not reminding me of anything. I don't know Could
be it could be they put out a lot of records
Yeah, we'll definitely have to cover Petra because
They had such an important place. I feel like
yeah in this in this whole world at one point
But it's kind of fun for them to be able to put
a new record out. Yeah And I think that it's
pretty much the same band that I saw back in
back in 92 Which is cool. So I don't know how
much they've played I guess just they Maybe kind
of been on hiatus for a while But yeah, I'm pretty
fun to see them doing something and I just noticed
even from like them posting that like the social
media response to it was like Huge, so there's
still a lot of Petra fans out there which is
kind of a fun thing. So let's talk about a little
bit of what we have been listening to lately.
Brandon, have you listened to anything interesting
of note late? Well, I think interesting is the
key word, Joel. I've discovered an entirely new
genre this past weekend. Oh, wow. I'm super intrigued.
So it's a thing I like to call hot dog pop. Don't
know if you've seen apparently Jordan said that
this has been like really popular for a while,
but there is I don't have the name with me But
it's this like eight or nine or ten year old
and what he does is he takes? chapel Rome songs
and Replaces the lyrics about to make it a song
about hot dogs so one where it's like the the
cheese Coney Club, it's all about just like going
to a restaurant where he could eat like the best
chili dog. Okay. Uh, then there's another one
where it's like, um, it's like hot, like hot
dogs, but it's like the H O T D O G S and it's
just all about him. Like all the different hot
dogs he enjoys and like sitting with his buddies
and enjoying the hot dog. It's just like, I feel
like it's the most interesting thing. Cause it's
just this, like this catchy beat. and even the
other day we were playing it for our nephew and
so it comes on and he's like I know this song
and then just like 30 seconds into it he's so
confused being like what and um so yeah it's
just all like I said I forget if you I think
if you google hot dog songs this guy right now
he has the market like he owns the market he's
like at the top of the genre but yeah Hot dog
pop. So yeah, if you enjoy pop if you enjoy hot
dogs Go to Spotify just type in cheese. Coney
club and I I guarantee you there's no one else
out there who's made All right. Yeah. Well, that's
really fascinating Maybe reminds me a little
bit of the it's corn. Yeah. Yeah I'm waiting
for them to tour together. Yeah, it'll be a pretty
killer tour So that's funny. That's funny Yeah
for me. I actually had somebody who works on
our team with us one of our friends who recommended
Reagan she recommended a And an instrumental
album to me and it's called midnight prayers
by Dan Musselman And I never been exposed to
his stuff before at all, but I love like kind
of quiet, melancholy piano music, especially
for when I'm working and I need to focus on something.
And so this is pretty cool because it basically
takes like modern worship songs, but it takes
them from being in a major key. Turns them into
a minor key and then like quiet instrumental
piano and so it's kind of cool to just have on
as background music and I Played it with my family
the other night We were doing laundry and just
kind of had it all and trying to like settle
us down at the end of a day Mm -hmm, but we were
like, all right who can name what worship song
this is first And so it was kind of a fun thing,
but it's a really cool Album and so if you're
into that kind of quiet instrumental stuff I
think it'd be something that you would dig. I
imagine this is probably gonna end up on my Apple
Music replay for the year, just because I've
already played it so much that it'll probably
pop up up there, which would be kind of a fun
thing. Yeah, that one's been fun to dig into.
All right, well, I guess it's time to get into
our album discussion. for the day. And so Brandon,
you submitted the record, The Boy Versus the
Cynic by John Rubin for us to chat about today.
So I'm gonna give us kind of some, just opening
info, just a little bio of this. And then I'd
love to hear for you, like just some of your
history with the record before we get into it.
But The Boy Vs. The Cynic is the fourth album
by John Rubin. It was released in 2005 on Goatee
Records. It features the hit Nuisance. In 2006,
the album was nominated for two Dove Awards,
the rap hip -hop album of the year and recorded
music packaging of the year at the 37th annual
Dove Awards. So I don't guess it won. I wonder
what beat it out for rap and hip -hop. John Rubin
was always he was just too he was always a man
was always putting him down now He's on the nomination
list like every year, but he never makes it to
the I remember being so So bitter when lecrae
got big I guess that would have been like 2009
2010 and I remember like having people like in
my class talk about how awesome lecrae was and
i'm just over there like oh you know john rubin
and i remember me like i had such a like anti
-lecrae stance because i felt like he was a threat
to john rubin and in hindsight i'm like that's
the most ridiculous thing i've got to have lecrae's
pretty awesome so I just remember being like,
you guys think that's good. Well, you haven't
checked out John Rubin yet. And so I just, I
remember like for the longest time, like just
whatever Lecrae would release, I would immediately
have to be like, that's not that good. He's just,
he's saying words and there's some music. And
so in hindsight, I'm like, I don't know why I
had this just. That's funny. I need to repent
of the the uh anger and jealousy the rage I had
against the cray. Yeah. Well, that's a that's
a good call. That's a good call Well, tell us
a little bit about your history with us and why
this is like such an important record for you.
Yeah, so um I wouldn't say this is like my favorite
or what I think is the best John Rubin album.
Um for me, it's maybe like one of the most personal
albums though. Um, and it's because We were on
family vacation and we stopped by our local family
Christian bookstore. Um, I feel there's people
out there. It's going to be like, what, what
is that? What was that? It's a thing that used
to exist. We used to have stores that had CDs
in there. Um, and on the back wall, they just
had a bunch of like clearance CDs. And, um, I
think that I had downloaded. One or two of John
Rubin songs from goatee records. So I kind of
knew him and I'm like, well this album I'll grab
this one just to get a new album and I took it
home and like it was like my first experience
into getting stuff that was like outside of I
guess like the radio realm or like I had had
Toby Max welcome the Diver City, which I guess
that's like The step but like toby mac still
is like he's established. Mm -hmm was john rubin
was this guy that I felt like it was the first
time I had gotten music that I was like Like
i've discovered this no one else around here
like knows this so it was so special and um one
thing I think is cool about it is that uh, so
originally he submitted two different cds and
there was one that was very much a like Radio
-friendly you very like optimistic thing and
then there was like a side project he was gonna
do where it was like these darker elements and
all and goatee thought that Like these more serious
songs were really cool. So they ended up packaging
it into One album. So you have this like mix
of like the like optimistic like sunshine type
songs in the very just like pessimistic and like
dark side of humanity or whatever and um as a
kid i just thought that was like really cool
and even now like i feel like there's a lot of
artists out there that it's you were joking at
lunch about how they like choose one of the lanes
where everything they do like every song is resolved
by the end it's all happy right or just all they
do is complain like nothing is good and so like
this album to me is just cool that it's this
balance of like Having this like struggle of
like optimism versus like cynicism. Yeah. Yeah
when you were telling me that I feel like the
whole record made so much more sense to me because
I was noticing that as I was like listening to
it And the fact that it was gonna be like two
different projects that they brought together
We'll talk a little bit more about as we get
into it, but I think the album Makes sense makes
a lot of sense. Yeah end of it But but yeah,
that's a really cool tidbit that helps just helps
me kind of understand a little bit more About
it and John Rubin's like an interesting guy.
Yeah told me things about him and I'm like What
are some of the like fascinating things to know
about about John Rubin? Um Yeah, I just I was
that person growing up and I still am that I
just loved getting any information I could about
them So what's cool to me is that... I'm trying
to find that file in my head that should fill
with John Rubin facts. I always thought it was
cool that he like partnered with a lot of these
like lesser known artists. So like we will discuss
it in there, but this is like House of Heroes.
Like I think around this time this was released,
they might have released... Maybe their debut
album, but like they weren't really like a household
name. So like to me, it's cool seeing that and
I felt like it was just like His style was way
different than a lot of just like the rappers
at the time Like you hear a song and you know,
it's a John Rubin song. Yeah, like, you know,
it's not like a kj -52 or like Like a pigeon
John, you know or whatever So yeah for me, I
feel like that's um that's what stuck out and
um yeah so i'm trying to think one cool thing
about this album is that the like the track nuisance
it has a music video and it's basically just
like the office and so it's like characters from
them as characters from the office and so John
Rubin is Michael Scott like in it and Matt Thiessen
gets to be Jim Halpert in it so Feel like that
was a cool like when it first came out. I didn't
understand why it was so popular Then looking
back on it. I was like, oh I can appreciate this
now. So yeah, that's cool Well, let's get into
track by track so we can start talking through
Through the record a little bit Again, I'll just
mention for me like I haven't had a history with
this and so this is this is brand new um for
me and so it's interesting hearing kind of like
the different um the different styles that are
kind of present throughout the record and so
we'll be able to talk about that as we kind of
navigate um our way through it so all right so
the boy versus the cynic john rubin track number
one is called out of control This is the first
moment for me, just like, all right, here it
is. This is John Rubin. And it started out with
an electric guitar. And I was like, that's cool.
I like that. It took me a while to like, I mean,
obviously I knew this was like a rap hip hop
album, but it didn't start off feeling that way.
And so I'm like, oh, this is kind of interesting
that it's a little different. I like the groove
of the song. um along the way and then then it
kind of got into it and i'm like all right this
is like this like rap rock kind of like vibe
and i'm like who else has done this and obviously
there have been a lot of people who have done
this dc talk in the christian world being a prevalent
answer to that beastie boys whatever maybe but
um but yeah i thought it just wasn't what i expected
in the beginning yeah yeah i i think when reviewing
an album like The opener can sometimes be so
make I feel like we've reviewed albums even now
that like It doesn't have a solid opener and
it almost takes away like yeah, like a whole
point or whatever, you know or whatever i'm like
but I think I think it's a great opener. Um I
think like I said, and you said it already kind
of establishes that like It's not what you like
expect and I remember back in the day just kind
of being a felon like All all or most of the
rap music I had heard was in this group over
here and then John Rubin was like over here where
it's like Hey, we don't have to sound the same.
We don't have to sing about the same stuff um
I I was wondering like so for me I always felt
like All of the songs fit like the boy versus
the cynic like going forward but this one I guess
if you had to put it you would put it into like
the Optimistic category, but do you do you feel
like it felt like having listened to the rest
of the album? did you feel like it felt or did
it feel like oh, it's a good song, but it feels
like it's just There to be an opener to establish
Yeah, that's a good question because it it's
not leaning hard in either direction. Yeah, it's
kind of a middle -road Song just from from what
I noticed from the record and so yeah, I don't
really I didn't really feel it Leaning in one
way or another. Yeah, but with that it kind of
felt like a song that kind of like brings the
two worlds together a little bit Yeah, like here's
kind of on average what you're like the average
or the mean of what you're gonna be experiencing
throughout this So yeah, I thought I thought
it was a fun opener and I like I like that it
surprised me. Yeah. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah So
track two is Nuisance, which I'm guessing is
the single from the record, since it's the one
with the music video. It's the one that got released
that way. So what are your thoughts on that track?
I like it a lot. I feel like it makes sense why
it was the single. I really enjoy Matt Thiessen.
I feel like it works and I think to it like it
establishes that like, um, it's not a song. It's
not a CD where every song fits into, um, one
or two of those categories. So I, I appreciate
a song that can have this like, Oh, there's just
struggle we're working through. And then you
see where it's gone. It's not just to like, Oh,
things are bad and all of a sudden it's good
or whatever. Um, so I mean, I, I feel like it.
it works like I know that and I've probably sang
along to the song a couple of hundred times in
the car so I feel like that's always like it's
a good sign of a song when you're like oh you
it's hard to not sing along with it yeah yeah
I felt that way about it too I love um again
it started out with guitar um and I loved it
and a little more kind of like indie almost kind
of pop punk kind of feel to it um and um I thought
that this one was super fun. I really liked everything
about it. It's one of my one of my favorite tracks
on the record, for sure. And there's like there's
this really low bass running throughout it, which
I thought was really interesting. I didn't bring
this up at the beginning, but the production
on this record is pretty impeccable. Like it's
really the production level is really high. Yeah,
it's very. Very well produced and so this one
was a lot of fun. I like the drop towards the
end that really kind of let you feel the melody
and what's happening just in a different kind
of way. I feel like moments like that are good
because you experience a song in one context
and it's kind of fun to drop it out of that context
into like a completely different kind of feel
and be like, oh yeah, that melody like really
works. And so yeah, I thought it was cool. I
had great outro too. Yeah. um so we move on to
the next song chapter one um this is a track
that like when i first got the the CD like i
never truly appreciated and i never really liked
and fast forward like Was it, you know, like
18 years or whatever. I still don't care for
it. So I was wondering where that was going.
I think I was trying because I was like, you
can't just leave it with don't care for it. I
think like lyrically, it starts off with like,
OK, now we're we're going to spotlight some of
the like cynical side of the album. I think it's
the music that I just find like annoying. I think
that's the Biggest attachment and I think that
like out of the two categories, I think this
was the weakest like like angry or cynical song
How do you feel about it? Yeah, I think I think
we agree probably on that. I actually when it
started I was like, this is interesting musically.
I like what was going on But then like it didn't
change at all and it just kept going And it finally
eventually adapted a little bit and did something
that's a little different. Yeah, obviously It's
a song where they want the focus to be on what
he's saying What he's communicating rather than
trying to accomplish something musically, but
I'm like, I'm a I'm a chorus guy. Yeah, I want
a chorus. Yeah, something to bring this whole
thing together and make it feel like we're part
of something. And it just never really got to
where I felt like I wanted it to go. And so,
yeah, I think I'm with you. It's kind of a weaker
spot for the record. I think it would have worked
if it would have been maybe like a minute long,
like interlude or something setting up, which
I mean, I think like on an album like this. It's
nice to have those little breaks, which I guess
like, you know, we'll talk about it, but like
having the happy songs thrown in helps with that.
But I feel like it's a, you know, if you just
added one or two interludes throughout the album,
it kind of helps with this like transition or
like the story you're going for. Yeah, maybe
it just went on a little too long. Yeah. Next
up is Follow Your Leader. I think it's the first
track that's just like aggressively in your face
with like we're like, I don't know like you hear
something about like oh, we're gonna have like
the sad, you know, whatever and it's the first
one that's very much like Yeah, we're gonna get
very like honest about stuff. Mm -hmm. And so
I think that yeah, I feel like this this shows
you a sign of things to come and I know it's
a song that I Enjoyed then I enjoy now. So so
do you feel like this one fits into the boy?
Just kidding. I know it's very obvious Yeah,
yeah this this one was interesting for me. I
felt like in the beginning it reminded me of
like a Beck song I don't listen to back very
much but I kind of had the feel of like a bet
kind of groove With where he was going the chorus
on it is like huge and kind of bonkers Um, and
so that, that was kind of interesting. Um, I
did like the bridge, um, a lot towards the end.
Um, yeah, he's definitely got something to say
and, um, and he says it and, um, so yeah, I,
I liked, I liked this one. It was interesting,
uh, different, um, really different from most
of the record in a pretty significant way. So
it stands out in that sense at least. Yeah. So
track number five is sales pitch What what were
your thoughts on that one? So I think the the
line that sums it up well is from politics to
the dude trying to play it cool on the dance
floor Everyone's got an agenda One thing I like
is that it can start sounding so repetitive when
you have like an album that's like, all right,
here's two subjects we're covering. And I think
with this one, I like the shift in like, it's
not just this big like, oh, it's the man or something.
Like this is something where it's like, hey,
you gotta watch with all this stuff. And even
we were talking about this in MC the other day
about how we start talking about like, Being
of the world or something and we're like, oh
that has to be like Drinking or it has to be
stealing, you know or something like that. Yeah,
and I was like, you know, I look at stuff just
like Hating your job or something. I was like
there's sometimes where I'm like It would be
so much easier if I just told people like yeah
I don't care for my job because it almost is
like harder sometimes to be like hey, I enjoy
both my jobs like I enjoy who I work with and
it almost feels weird like a you're not supposed
to say that and um so I feel like with with this
song I appreciate that it's a like hey this applies
to everyone on here like it's not just uh hey
I'm calling you out if you're like you know you
if you work in I don't know like the insurance
agency or something or you know it's not this
you're you're hurting people or whatever it's
something that's like hey no matter what position
you're in you could be doing something that like
um is like bad or whatever yeah i felt like this
one reminded me at least in moments a little
bit of the beastie boys um and so um there are
things that i really liked about it um i liked
i liked the like really like quick fast rapping
kind of at the universe too. I didn't really
love the chorus like it didn't go where I wanted
it to go yeah so yeah this one for me is kind
of like a meh song but um but um I probably should
have paid more attention to the lyrics like you
I definitely was reading through them as I was
going but um well this is um because this is
the chorus that's like the You have like the
almost like the whispered like this person singing
then you have like John saying the random stuff
like yeah do yourselves pitch and I feel like
yeah that stuff it's like a would you a hollow
chorus or something where you're like no come
on let one person John either you say more words
with this guy whispering turn him up so I can
hear him yeah maybe that's what it was I don't
know um but track six um sunshine This definitely
falls into the boy category This one was super
peppy and I like peppy. Uh -huh. And so I really
like this song. This is one of my favorites on
the record it's there's like a There's like a
down strum like walk down that happens a lot
throughout it That's just like a really nice
like melodical thing. That's yeah happening and
that part where they're like give me some sunshine
that part I thought was was really cool. And
there's another drop out I love that kind of
does the same thing that Nuisance does earlier.
Yeah. And so so far I'm super digging these happy
songs. So I really like that one. I don't know
about you. I feel like it. it feels like a little
out of left field like um when you've had these
last couple of tracks right you're like yeah
yeah we're getting we're getting angry or like
things are bad and then this hits um that's such
the interesting thing about this album though
um but i i think i thought about like doesn't
improve the album if you make it half and half
and i feel like ultimately when you get to the
end Think that having that chaos like It's it
feels like that's what John was going for is
that it's not like let's be clean and separate
the stuff But yeah, I I really liked this track
when I was younger I think now if I'm like nitpicking
I think it like it could be seen as kind of cheesy
and I think that like if I had to choose one
this might be like what I think I think it might
be the weakest like happy track I think it's
maybe what chapter one is to like the like yeah
cynical side of the album is that it's like it's
it's there um but yeah Feel like it's it's still
good. I remember I remember I used to get that
and nuisance mixed up and maybe It was a do happy
songs, right? Um, but so we move next into so
glad What do you think about this one Joel? So
I love the like Like this is just like a dance
song. Uh -huh. It's really fun. It makes you
makes you want to dance The chorus, for the energy
that the song was bringing, the chorus didn't
hit like I wanted it to when it got there, and
so I felt like that part of it was a little lacking,
and so I didn't enjoy it as much as Nuisance
or something like that, but I still thought it
was a fun song. I used to not like it, but now
in the past 10 years or so, Like i've added it
to a lot of like playlists when i'm like traveling
places and um When I first like got this album.
I had no idea who house of heroes was so like
whenever I got into them It was so cool going
back and be like that's that's tim. I know him
and um, I think this is a track that like It
would be so good to hear alive because I feel
like it's almost written to be a live track where
you have like that like I think like The chorus
going on I feel like it's more about just the
party that's happening there Than the actual
like song i'm going on um So I feel like like
live this would be such a it would translate
Maybe even better like if you're sitting there
at the show and you're surrounded by I don't
know like anywhere from 200 to 200 million, you
know, john I can feel that for sure. Yeah. Yeah,
I get that Alright, so let's talk about track
eight. What about them? Mm -hmm Brandon who is
them? Them or it's them, you know, it's them
What's funny is I got mixed up and at first I
was like I thought them was like the bad guy
I wrote about this one that I just love how honest
this album is and um and I thought about like
how I felt like it was provocative at the time
but now it's like I I wonder if this would get
released or at least like on on like a you know
maybe it was like an indie release or something
but I feel like goatee is like I would say it's
top four Christian label top five like it's somewhere
there and um but Yeah I feel like it's just like
it's a super honest um like track and I think
I think for me with John it was it I've always
been more of like a lyric person so I feel like
that's probably a trend on this is that I feel
like a lot of tracks it's more about like judging
what the lyrics whereas for you it's like hey
this is cool drop down or whatever um which I
feel like it's cool to highlight because no one
wants to hear a podcast where it's all about
like Well, the music's whatever but if you just
get a lyric book like that's where all the like
treasure is um, but yeah, I just I just I just
remember thinking like man, this is like it's
cool how much like Artistic freedom is there
a song just that's what stands out to me about
it. Yeah, this reminded me not not musically,
of course, but Lyrically, it kind of reminded
me of like a five iron frenzy song. They yeah,
they have like three or four songs about like
Native Americans and mistreatment. So like they're
constantly causing us to look at ourselves and
see how we treat people that are more marginalized.
And so as I was listening to the song, I just
like caught wind and kind of felt kind of the
same kind of ideas, just helping us to keep our
eyes like. not just on people who are like us
and have walked through what we've walked through
in life, but how can we put our eyes on people
who maybe have had a different experience and
have had to walk through some tougher stuff than
we have? What about them? So I felt that was
kind of cool about that one. Next up we've got,
there's only forgiveness. What about this track
Joel? How where did this rank for you in the?
This is depressing So it reminded me a little
bit of like an Eminem song, uh -huh, which You
can probably correct me, but I feel like John
Rubin and Eminem had or maybe that was kj -5
to you thing back and forth thing I don't know.
Oh, yeah, it was kj -5 to you had the like it
was like the What's like Eminem's is like Stan
And then KJ 5 2s was like dear slim or he wrote
like a track to him about like you need to stop.
That makes sense. Yeah, this one just felt a
little Eminem, like the beat was cool. Like it
wasn't just a standard beat. And so I thought
that was neat. And there's a total like shift
that happens in the song. Yeah. Way through,
which I thought was. Cool and interesting. Yeah
at that point it felt like a move from an Eminem
song to like a pod song Yeah, and like a lighter
pod song with some of the like classical guitar
and And so yeah, I thought this one was cool.
I liked it. I um, I like I like the so I really
like the shift at the end because I wrote down
that like It might have been my favorite like
Bridge slash like ending or whatever you want
to call it to like the entire album. Yeah, because
I feel like it I don't know it gets like eerie
or whatever like towards the end I like lyrically
the shift where a lot of the other like Scenic
tracks have been an opinion on the outward and
I feel like this song is a lot about like the
inward struggle where it's like him saying like
I don't want to like let go of this pain. I want
to hold on to it. So like I just I enjoy that
it's not just a pointing the finger like at everything.
It's like taking this inward look and and I feel
like that for me it helps not every track start
feeling the same kind of the same way with like
the like happier tracks that you don't want everything
just to be like Things can be kind of tough,
but guess what? I'm happy. Like you want there
to be a little bit of like difference. Speaking
of we moved to our next track. All I have. What
do you think about this one? Do you find it to
be cynical or? No, it wasn't. This one was cool.
I like the acoustic guitar kind of groove to
it. It's more. It's like that, it's not like
rapping or singing. It's that world that exists
between the two. And I kind of like that sometimes.
I think that's fun. And I bet it's probably fun
for him to do, just to do something that's a
little different. And so I thought the chorus
was great. I liked the feel of it. I wanted to
kind of sing along with it. So for me, it was
like a highlight song. But again, it's one of
the happier feeling ones. Yeah, this this used
to be a skip track when I was younger. And it's
weird because I feel like that and like sunshine
like switched where now it's like I appreciate
all I have more. Yeah. And I think it's like
I don't I don't know who you were when you were
younger, but I felt like younger. I didn't like
when there was a shift like when I when a artist
did something different. It was like. No, I like
what you did on this track now Give that to me
like, you know for the next right 20 albums you
release. Yeah, and um, so now like listening
back I appreciate how it has this like you said
like this like acoustic like feel to it um, and
I I like how it like it feels like there's an
authentic hopefulness to it. Yeah, and um You
know, I I keep going back to it's so easy for
these songs to fall into a category where it's
just okay I need this to be like angry and but
I feel like with the tracks there's a thought
put into okay how what am I feeling how do I
express it not just uh okay we have to get this
album out like we need two more like angry songs
or whatever yeah um next one is cooperate what
are your thoughts on cooperating Yeah. Um, so
cooperate. I thought it was cool. I liked the,
um, I like the message that's going on of just
like the idea of like needing to grow up and,
um, and like almost kind of like being a, you're
like, you feel like you're like so unique and
like you're the, you're the cool thing or whatever
that, um, that you're actually kind of like.
Selling out and it's time to just grow up and
get yeah get over yourself a little bit And so
I thought that was kind of cool again here reminded
me of a fire and frenzy song handbook for the
sellout For some reason and so yeah, I thought
this was a cool one. It's cool Yeah, you oh yeah,
I forgot it Yeah, I like the chorus a lot on
this one Lyrically, I like how it goes back to
like very Specific it's not just like hey all
you people who are fake. It's bad like it It
feels like they're someone he's thinking about
or it's like someone he's encountered a lot.
Yeah I know to like in just like the like, you
know Goes back to like the rap world. I feel
like there's a lot of this like fakeness and
you see that a lot I mean, it's probably the
same way like in like the rock world too, but
I guess just for like this sake, that was something
is that I felt like that was a push in John's
like music to was that like it was let's be different
and almost kind of like mocking that thing of
like, yeah, I could sell more, but it's like
I'm not being authentic if I go to this crowd
and I start saying like, you know, and I think
this album too, it's like, um it's like you're
you're kind of firing shots all across the board
like it's not something where he's saying like
the church is corrupt or it's like oh everything
outside of the church is corrupt right and um
i think that's like that's a cool part about
this song is that it feels like this is he's
calling out someone different from the other
ones and um i don't know i feel like this album
shows oh A lot of probably why john rubin never
got a ton of traction was that it was kind of
like, uh Yeah, we're let's we're gonna call all
of this out or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, that's good
um, so track number 12 the last track on the
record, um is the Um where we get the title of
the album the boy versus the cynic this is where
this whole record made sense for me. Like I'm
listening through it and I'm like, I feel like
this is all over the place. There's like some
pretty hard cynicism about the world, about the
church, about lots of different things. And then
there's just like, guys, life is good. Like what's
going on? And then this track hits and I'm like,
okay. Uh -huh. I get it. Like I understand what's
happening here. And so, um, I feel like Just
this putting this track at the end of the record
like automatically raises this this like whole
album up for me because I understand it, um,
and I feel like it The album doesn't make sense
without this song and yeah, it's got a really
important place. Um, plus I think it's good like
uh, I like the guitars um, they they do like
a Doubling of the vocals. Yeah chorus at some
point, which I think is is really fun The lyrics
are cool. Like I just think he says a lot here
that really yes a nice bow around this and I
thought that was awesome Yeah, I think that um
Like I think for me this track was like life
-altering but to give it like a real review and
not Life -altering Like I really enjoyed um,
like you said how it sums up the album and like
There's so many times where I think about like
how an album begins and sometimes it's like albums
get this pass if it like Tapers off or like there's
albums where i'm like, you know, the first like
eight songs really good, but the last three Yeah,
we don't have to talk about them. But I think
this is an album that it's like The beginning
and the end are just so strong is the kind of
like lifts like the rest of it yeah um and i
think tim skipper's like presence on it like
is just like it does so much for like the chorus
like i feel like i'm like i'm experiencing what
this person is experiencing yeah and like i i
sometimes think it's like it we think it's so
easy with like a song for it to like impact someone
and think about like a movie where it's like
you have like 100 million dollars and you've
got two and a half hours to like Get people like
into your story and to like change their mind
or change their life or make them feel these
emotions and I look at music sometimes and I
think Like how difficult is that when you have
like two to four minutes? To be like I need to
get your attention I need to like make you feel
this way or whatever like it's almost like that
like elevator pitch or it's like you have a business
and you have 20 seconds you know to tell me what
your business is versus the 20 minute presentation
um so but i i think it does uh really well um
and like we both said i feel like it does put
that uh bow on the album yeah yeah it's cool
and that kind of is my like kind of summary thought
of all this is just that there's this nice little
tie that happens there between these two different
worlds that he's kind of introducing us to through
this. And so, yeah, I love I love that last song
and I love what it does for the album in a really
cool way. So, yeah, what are your final thoughts
or anything else? I guess final thoughts like.
for me, I I think it's cool when you go back
and you like revisit music like this because
like I said There was other CDs where I'm like,
oh man, every single track on this is amazing
But I was like this is one that I haven't listened
to like through like all the way and I think
it is more of a discussion because it like, you
know, I could see someone loving or hating this
album just because it doesn't fit into that nice
thing of like everything is bad or everything
is good or Here's our target or that's our target.
Like it's it's a very Like I don't know like
John Rubin releasing what John Rubin wants to
release go to you releasing what John Rubin needs
Yeah, that's cool. All right. Well, let's talk
about our overall ratings for this one So this
is a big one for you Brandon. Where does it where
does it fall? I'm gonna pull a Style out of the
Joel Hamm book and I'm gonna give it a four point
one five I Feel like it's it's not a four point
five. It's not off, but it's better than a four.
So I'm just gonna go 4 .15. 4 .15. Awesome. I
love it. Yeah, so for me, again, I liked this.
It wasn't what I was necessarily even expecting
going into it, and I love that part about it.
And I like how that last song pulls it up for
me in a lot of ways. It's still, I don't think,
something that I would listen to every day. it's
it's a little it's I talked about the production
earlier and how good the production is like it's
a little too polished um for me um which I feel
like probably hip -hop is gonna be that way a
little more than like what I traditionally listen
to you um although I spent a good amount of time
in middle school like digging into some Christian
hip -hop so um but um but I also I really I really
enjoyed it and so for me I'm gonna go with a
3 .3 um for the boy versus the cynic by John
Rubin and so um yeah how does that make you feel
bringing this before me I've had so many people
get annoyed at me like please be quiet about
John Rubin so really like I've I've become uh
immune to like the John Rubin hate out there
so there's no hate 3 .3 is a good rating no I
think that's good and I Honestly, I think that
um Sometimes when I put numbers out there, I
think the same way like for some people I mean
we were discussing this the other day with like
some of our friends like About like what is like
is a four bad is a three bad, you know, right?
Because you can see your 2 .5 as a 50 or you
can see it as you know average. Yeah Yeah, so
yeah, so yeah, I don't I don't think that you
gave John Rubin a barely passing. Maybe that's
what you meant to do, but no, no, no. So for
me, for me, a 2 .5 is an average. Like, it's
fine. Yeah. So this is this is, you know, pretty
well above that, which is awesome. I think that's
John's motto is like above average. I'm sure
there's I wouldn't be surprised if there's a
John Rubin t -shirt out there. It said like you're
above average rapper. So that's awesome. That's
awesome. Cool man. Well, let's figure out what
our lyric of the week is. Time to create a new
atmosphere where the boy and the cynic can both
play fair. That's nice. Yeah, I love that. I
love that you pulled it from that last one. And
I kind of kind of sums it all up together. That's
cool. All right. Well, where can people spend
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