Holy Spirit, Lord Jesus, Abba Father, what a
privilege it is to be here today recording, having
conversations about things that matter in our
world today. I ask for wisdom, for guidance,
for both Adam and myself, and I pray for our
listeners. I'm so thankful for them as they've
been reaching out and asking questions and sharing
things and even pushing back at times, and I'm
thankful for all of it, Lord. We learn through
it all. So bless whoever listens to this podcast.
Maybe somebody stumbles on it. Lord, may they
be refreshed and encouraged and inspired. And
may they someday be able to say, wow, we get
to do this in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. It's Wednesday,
March 18th, 2026. We get to do this. This is
episode number 25. We get to do this. Yes, we
do. We get to do this. Cheers, brother. Cheers.
We got the Black Rifle coffee going. You got
the Beyond Black. I'm doing the Just Black. Oh,
I didn't know there was a different. I'm a notch
down. Oh, OK. Oh, there's so many different flavors.
It's crazy. I'm in need of this. It's been an
incredible week, a good week. a really good week
so far. It's only Wednesday. It's a good week.
That's what I'm talking about, brother. It's
a good week. I've had good technical things,
just good stuff happening. Had a nice afternoon
with my wife and we had a nice dinner and just,
yeah, just fantastic. every night almost. Tina's
always saying, you know, I cook every night.
I'm like, I guess that walking in and out that
I do is anyway, she, she does plan. I think it's
the planning more. You know, it's like, okay,
what should we have? This cut of beef or this
cut of beef? There it is. Yeah. We just placed
our order for hometown meats. Yeah. Those guys
are so good. Love it. Love it. I had my last
ribeye last night. So I'm like, We got to get
this order done. So yeah, we got that in. We
did a tri -tip last night with espresso rub from
Gigawatt Coffee Roasters by a man in Chicago
in Illinois. Wow. So good. Remind me again, who
did the pickles for us? Jody White. Well, it's
she sends them to us. Thank you, Jody. She wants
to make them, she wants them to rebrand as the
Pickle Princess because we've promoted it so
much. But man, those things are good. Oh my gosh.
Did you finish it off? Almost. I'm rationing.
Yeah. So I'm down to the last like two pickles.
And I think I've got an onion and a jalapeno.
And that's it. I don't even want to eat it. I
probably will drink the juice. It's that good.
And Bo, right, makes some Did I get that right?
Yeah, Beau. Thanks, Beau. You're awesome. It's
been a long time since I've actually rationed
myself on anything, certainly pickles. They're
too good. Today's episode has been months in
the making. And it really started, gosh, I can't
believe what episode that was. We were talking
about... Yeah, it's been a few back. about replacement
theology. Didn't we call it the Israel conundrum?
No, even before that we were doing that. Before
that. I think we were doing it before this. We've
hit on this several times. We have. And there's
so much spinning around in the podcast podosphere,
as we call it. And it's literally like Ben Shapiro,
Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly, Candice Owens, who
am I missing? It's exhausting. And they're all
yelling at each other and they're all like, you
need to denounce him, denounce her, denounce
this. And it all comes down to, well, this started
years ago and certainly perked up after October
7th. And all we've heard is labels like Christian
Zionists and all these. And this to me was like,
I need to figure out where all of this is coming
from. And it's kind of been presented as a binary
option. You're either... Clarify that. You're
either a Christian Zionist or you're not. Yeah,
there's no other option. There's no other option.
And, of course, now everything is spun up with
what's happening in Iran. So I want to give a
little bit of historical background on Iran,
our involvement in there, because people really
don't know. Any history and even even I had to
brush up a lot and like okay, where actually
does this all come from and you know when you
understand the history of Iran and The British
involvement and the US involvement. It has always
been about one thing and one thing only can you
guess? Oil I was gonna say money, but that's
always been one thing and one thing only yeah,
and so When we see the, it was a national security
advisor, I think quit his job this morning saying
two things. The president only focused on one,
which is Iran pose no threat. But he also said,
we've been led into this by Israel, basically.
And so when I look at this claim that we have
been dragged into something for Israel's behalf,
It's laughable on its face. Just because of,
look at what's happening. What is the result
of this? The result is the constriction of flow
of oil through the straits of Hormuz, which have
been a problem for decades and decades, but even
in the last couple of years. I mean, it may have
been cool to just watch the helicopter footage
of the Houthis landing on the oil ship, but this
has been an ongoing problem. This has been an
ongoing issue. And without the Straits of Hormuz
open, Saudi Arabian oil can't come through. Qatari
gas can't come through this. And of course, Iranian
oil, which mainly has been sanctioned by all
countries in the world and goes to China and
to other places. So first, let's understand outside
of the terrorism funding aspect, when did this
really start? And it started in the early 1900s
when Churchill decided to switch the British
Navy and the British Empire was a naval seafaring
empire. They conquered all these countries and
turned them into the big Commonwealth. The saying
was the sun never sets on the British Empire
anywhere. They changed their naval vessels from
coal which Britain had enough of to oil this
was no combustion engine had come in now and
so now we're going to use oil to power our ships,
we don't have any oil so they went looking for
oil and Back in the day. Certainly if you go
looking around the region, which was not Iraq
or Iran or Syria or Jordan it was Persia Of course
the Ottoman Empire which was this whole area
and they were starting to break apart of their
own accord because it's all just tribal They
went, you know We should probably go take a look
over there and you could walk through certain
places and your feet would step into oil and
wow That's how they found it. Literally. It was
just so much of it And so the Brits at the time
had learned a very very smart trick, which they
had pulled off in China which was opium war.
So they got all these people in today, modern
day Iran, and Iraq is also a part of this, got
them hooked on opium. And so they got this great
deal with the tribal rulers of the time in Iran.
We'll take all your oil, and we'll give you 10
% of that. Typically, it's like a 50 -50 at least,
you know, so no, we'll take all of that. Have
another toot of opium, you'll be fine. And so
that was the beginning. But all of these different
tribal regions, it was a problem because you
had to continuously keep that flow of oil safe.
There were some pipelines that they even put
in early on, which is now modern day Syria, and
they were piping that up. So they decided to
start funding all these different little groups
and tribes to fight each other and stay occupied,
you know, the divide and rule so they could just
continue to get the oil. Now around this we got
World War One coming up around this time actually
after World War One, which was also partially
about oil because the Germans now they were building
ships. They wanted oil. There was lots of stuff
going on even in African region and the Brits
and the French two guys actually Sykes and Pico.
You may have heard of this a Sykes Pico agreement.
They decided let's carve up the Middle East and
you guys will be responsible for this part and
we'll be responsible for this part." And they
just drew some lines in crayon and a napkin and
said, we'll call this Iraq, we'll call this Iran,
we'll call this Jordan, we'll call this Syria.
The region of Palestine was really, a lot of
it was Jordan at the time, mainly Jordan, some
Syria, and of course it moved all over the place
including Egypt. And that was really the beginning
of the oil the oil dominance of the British.
So they had the Anglo -Iranian Oil Corporation,
which then was later known as BP. And they had
this great, great idea in 1917 called the Balfour
Declaration. And the Balfour Declaration was,
again, so we're looking at war times, we should
probably Create a place for the Jews and why
don't we make it in there kind of their homeland
here in Israel? Because they on one hand will
protect another Import will be another force
for another important part of the country of
the world, which is the Suez Canal I knew that
would come into play of course later and so now
we have now I'm speeding through the years and
I'm not a historian, but I have it pretty well
in my head Even if you watch The Crown, you'll
see some of this. So you have the Suez Canal,
and then there's always, like Egypt always has
revolutions, like every three years there's some
revolt going on, to this day almost. So Nasser
comes in, he was a military leader, and he's
like, you know what, we're taking control of
the Suez Canal, so big problem for the Brits.
It's arguable whether they funded the beginning
of it or took a small group and started funding
them. the Muslim Brotherhood. And this to this
day has been used mainly by the British, but
also by other people and their own autonomous,
they've grown so big to control parts of the
region. So, you know, this idea of building a
state for the Jews has always been historically
a geopolitical initiative, not a biblical initiative.
And Napoleon even tried to do that. And, you
know, he's like, He wanted the Jews out of France,
which a lot of people still see him as a friendly
towards the Jews, but he wanted to basically
get them out, put them in the same place. It
didn't work out for him. He lost in different
places, and of course Waterloo, and that was
all over. So the Brits had this Iranian oil,
and we benefited from it as well, also to keep
it stable. And then in 1953, Iran was essentially
becoming a republic. They had democratically
elected leaders. They had a prime minister. And
the Brits were like, this is no good because
we need to keep these guys kind of disorganized
and fighting each other so we can continue with
oil. And so this was Prime Minister Mossadegh.
And he said, you know, This thing that these
Brits did, we got to end this. We're going to
nationalize the oil, which would mean all of
the rights to the oil go away. And now Britain
has a problem because they have this. And there's
only three oil companies at this time. You have
British Petroleum. You have Royal Dutch Shell.
And the Dutch bought Shell. And you had Standard
Oil. You had Caltex or whatever it was. So those
are really the three big oil companies. And so
we decided, and I say we, the CIA and the British
Secret Service, MI6, in 1953, we implement Operation
Ajax. And I love these names. And this is historical,
historical fact. So we now crush this secular
nationalist path for Iran and we bring in Shah
Mohammed Pahlavi. who his son is still considered
to be the royal crown prince. It was really just
some dude they put in there. All right, so now
you're going to have the power. So for two decades,
everything's going well. But the religious leaders,
and this includes Khomeini, they felt that this
had always been a betrayal by the Americans and
by the British. which quite honestly, it was.
We came in there, did some regime change because
we didn't like that they were democratizing.
So the Shah at a certain point launches what
was known as the White Revolution. And this was
not accepted by any of the religious leaders
in Iran. They kicked Khomeini out. He's in exile
for 15 years. But this builds and builds and
builds and builds. And then by 1978, 1979, the
Islamic revolution is about ready to kick off.
And so the first thing, well, not the first thing,
but one of the things they do is they, you know,
so they send the royal family goes on vacation.
They wind up in France. They've lived there for,
you know, forever, basically never to come back.
They were exiled. It's a whole big mess. And
then they go in, the students go in, it was a
student uprising, go into the U .S. embassy and
they, keep all these embassy workers, I think
it was about 50 or 60 of them, hostage for 444
days in total. You remember this. And why was
this? They were getting all the documents that
CIA had shredded. Embassies are always covered
for CIA. It's the CIA station. So the CIA had
shredded all these documents. that proved that
we had done Operation Ajax with the Brits. And
they took all these snippets, brought it over
to the schools and said to the kids, you like
puzzles, right? Put this together. And they spent
these hundreds of days putting it all together.
So there was proof positive that we had actually
done that. So Jimmy Carter, he was trying to
get the hostages out. The whole thing was still
such a mess because Ronald Reagan didn't want
those hostages to come out before the election
because he thought that Jimmy Carter would be
seen as a hero for getting the hostages free.
And no one really understood at the time what
it was about. We only know that in hindsight.
So our CIA actually actively worked with the
Islamists saying, can you just hold back just
a few more days until after November? And Carter
was actually trying up until January, you know,
whenever the handover was, he was still as president
actively trying to get that done. And then, of
course, Reagan gets into office, boom, it's all
taken care of. So this is really how the Mullahs
and the Ayatollah came to power. And this is
where all of the problems started, or the modern
day problems. So it was a puppet government.
That's literally what they called it. They called
it the puppet government. So now you know why
the so -called crown prince son is like, oh,
I should come back. But even that was the puppet.
His dad was the CIA MI6 puppet. And so really,
that's why I think President Trump is not interested
in him. because they know how to do a secular,
democratically elected government. And they were
a republic, just like the United States, a republic.
So this has always been about oil. And now you
just add to it that they were taking all of that.
And I would say in a way on behalf of the the
British system. It's not like King Charles is
personally responsible, but the banking system,
the shipping system, the insurance system, it
all runs through the City of London banking system.
And the estimate is that for every barrel of
oil that comes through the Straits of Hormuz,
$5 to $15 is just insurance premium, just extra
money that only has to be paid to Wall Street
banks, City of London banks, City of London insurance
companies are just banks. So they love this.
They love the problems in the Middle East. Keep
it going. And it's lucrative. Of course, the
problem is Israel. The Jews turned out to not
be so subservient. And so they smart and they
started fixing the country they had been given
that, you know, and this is where the argument
comes down to, or they deserve or they by covenant
should have. And this creates all of this tension.
The United States is allied, of course, with
Israel because that is our, as we call it, the
aircraft carrier in the sand. And this is where
in the past we have also continued to poke and
make sure stuff keeps. the tension goes on in
the region. I mean, and I could go into Kuwait
and Iraq and Saddam Hussein who we all loved
until we didn't love him. We are not good actors
in all of this historically. So let's just put
that in front. So at this point, we have Iran
using their power to fund all kinds of destabilizing
forces, not all necessarily just to get rid of
Israel, but to destabilize Lebanon, destabilize
Syria, destabilize Iraq, to some degree destabilize
Egypt. That has been the system that we just
needed that to keep that sweet sweet oil flowing
at a premium that really kind of the British
financial empire controlled. And why was that?
When the Brits converted from this global empire
of land to a global empire of finance. And they
were in the game way before Wall Street came
along. So those two are kind of symbiotic. Okay,
so that's the truth of what's happening. And
right now, President Trump, he did what every
president has every president since Roosevelt
has said, we need to take care of Iran. These
guys are a problem. And whether it was the Wall
Street people who said no, or whoever was saying
no, no president ever did it. And now we see
all the problems that have arisen from Iran being
able to do whatever they do. Could they actually
have nuclear weapons? I don't know. I've been
here next week for 10 years, maybe, maybe not.
It was a pretext. But the idea was we've got
to get it back to where it was. play fair with
them, we want to have real trade with them for
their oil, and this plays into what President
Trump set up in his first term, the Abraham Accords.
This is what even historians say, this would
be fantastic if we could have Israel as a part
of all of these different Arab nations and have
Saudi Arabia and the Iranians, Sunnis and Shia,
who historically hate each other. That's why
I'm always laughing if someone says, well, ISIS
was fighting because of Iran. No, ISIS is the
other side of Iran. So no, that's wrong. And
there seems to be motivation for that. And Saudi
Arabia, you've been doing all, this is what President
Trump did this term. You've been getting all,
you know, you've been doing oil business. We're
going to turn you into a data center, high tech.
center of the Middle East, and you'll participate
in the global AI race, et cetera, et cetera,
for whatever that means. But that's not the way
it's playing out in American politics. In American
politics, all you hear is, President Trump got
dragged into this by Israel because he needs
to blow up Iran to protect Israel. Nonsense.
It doesn't even make economic sense. So the cope
of grasping at Well, it's because he's being
blackmailed by Epstein. No. I mean, it's pathetic.
It's pathetic on his face where this is a game
about oil and resources and money and who controls
and who does not control and what's fair. And
isn't it always? Historically. It's always about...
We're done. That's right. Good night, everybody.
No, it's always about oil, turf and, you know...
There's always some personal stuff in there,
but that just is from leader to leader. So I've
been trying to figure out where this notion comes
from, that we have gotten into a position where
you have, there's really two camps, and I learned
recently, mainly through listening to you very
carefully, that there's three. One is Israel
is, is not important because according to the
New Testament and Jesus, the church is the New
Israel. Then you have the other side who says
we're really in the church age right now of the
seven different ages, dispensationalism, and
then there's a third that we'll get to. But what
this results in is a confusion for believers,
Christians. What am I supposed to do here? Am
I supposed to defend support Israel? Is Israel
the state, the region, the government, etc.?
Or do I denounce them for so -called genocide?
What is genocide? Or should I just shut up and
be really quiet, which I think is what most people
do? And this is a big problem because you're
missing a great opportunity to help people understand,
in my opinion, and I believe your opinion, what
God really intended and what He really said.
Now, this has come to a head with podcasters
who believe they are great theologians. I didn't
know Tucker Carlson was a Christian until recently,
and the same goes for many other people who have
at least expressed their faith openly. But I
knew this was a real problem in our community
when I hear our friend Matt Long on the Matt
Long show just this week, and it's a very short
clip, just to give you an idea of the confusion
of where we are as believers in this geopolitical
argument. about Israel. And so, well, that puts
us in a bizarre situation because is the state
of Israel, is the government of Israel, is that
who God made His promise to? Did He make it to
Jerusalem? Did He make it to the Jewish people
who descended by blood only to the Jewish people?
These are all questions that a lot of us have,
and many of us grew up with preconceived notions
on that. Okay. So when Matt... I heard this,
by the way. You played this on Hello Fred. As
a promo. Yeah, you're right. I heard it. I heard
the promo too. I'm like, wow, I got to grab that
out of the promo. That's a good bit. So I'm going
to try and boil it down and then we'll get to
the third option. But amongst a lot of people
who are saying, literally saying, the Christians
in America are Zionists. They're the problem.
They let Israel get away with everything. The
politicians are pro -Israel and they'll do anything
to defend Israel. They come from the school of
replacement theology. and we played some Nick
Fuentes a while back, I think that's probably
where we talked about it, where he said, oh no,
the church has replaced Israel, and that is replacement
theory. Now, I'm gonna play a couple clips, and
then we'll get into where this comes from. So
Tucker had on former Miss California, Carrie
Prejean Baller. And you may remember her from
like 20 years ago, She was a shoe in to win and
then go on to win Miss USA. But she said very
clearly, no, I believe marriage is between one
man and one woman. That's my faith. And so she
got burned, you know, excoriated, of course.
And that's when she became friends with President
Trump. And he kept in touch with her throughout
all these years because she definitely went through
some ups and downs in whatever career because
she was seen as a nut job. as one does, and she
winds up being asked to be on the Defending Christian
Faith Presidential Board. And this includes a
number of people, including Dan Patrick, who
was, is he our attorney general? Attorney general
in Texas? No, no, no. He's our lieutenant governor.
Lieutenant, right. Who was our attorney general?
Paxton. Paxton. Okay, yeah, so he's... It's easy
to get those names mixed up. Yes, and they're
going to get even more mixed up, I think, once
elections are over. And Paula White, who runs
the Office of Faith for the President, I believe
is his pastor, I'm not sure. But also, Dr. Phil
is on there. But it's a prestigious thing. And
she was asked to resign from the board, who?
the Carrie, the former Miss California, runner
-up Miss California, because she was posting
things about what Israel was doing in Gaza. And
it was clear that it was more about politics
than about faith. But as she sat down with Tucker
Carlson, this is where it really got interesting
for me, because you can hear exactly how the
programming has been shoved in and how it works,
this very binary choice, which is not ultimately
binary, about the support of Israel. So she says,
no, I'm not going to resign. Then she gets a
call from Paula White and Dan Patrick, and they're
saying, no, you really have to, or you have to
run all your tweets through us or, you know,
sound like a very untenable situation. Here's
her I have a couple clips of this. Here's her
takeaway as to how this happened in her conversation
with Tucker Carlson. Did either one of them explain
why a requirement of the Christian faith is supporting
the Netanyahu government? Did they explain the
theology there? You already see where this is
going, right? Because I don't understand it.
Yeah, no, they never explained it. They just
said, you can't have your theology. You can't
believe what you want. You have to submit to
ours. But their theology is that Christians are
required as a matter of faith to support the
government of Israel. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Do
you have any idea? Those who bless Israel will
be blessed. That's exactly what Ted told you.
Yeah, I mean, he had no idea where in the Bible
it was. Of course, that line is not actually
in the Bible. It doesn't say that. But whatever,
the leap between that, whatever that means, it
does mean something. and the moral, the religious
requirement to support the government of Israel.
I mean, those are just like completely two different
things. No, they don't think they are. A lot
of interesting things just to start this off.
I completely take at face value the belief that
she and Tucker think and have gotten the impression,
and it may be very true, that politicians who
believe in dispensationalism or whatever their
belief is that the 1948 creation of the state
of Israel was a prophetic fulfillment and we
have to defend that at all cost to have the end
times accelerate or whatever eschatological phase
we're in. I need you to comment on just where
we are so far. Dispensationalism would hold that
there's a place for Israel, there is prophetic
implications for both current Israel then, when
it was said back in the Old Testament under the
Old Covenant, but also for today. So it's both
now and for then, now and future. There's also
another view which is completely the opposite
of that, which would be replacement theology.
And by the way, no one person came up with replacement.
You can't go back to this person started that.
Well, the argument, and I've looked into this,
is that for 1 ,500, 1 ,800, 2 ,000 years since
Constantine... Right. I did hear that in Justin
Martyr and others. That that's when Constantine,
who of course made Christianity the official
religion, he could not have people believing
that Israel was still a thing in order to keep
power, and I believe that's probably been carried
over through the Church of England, like, no,
no, no, no, no, we are the new Israel, and that
was for political reasons, that you just couldn't
believe that. Does that sound feasible? So back
to replacement theology, yeah, it does sound...
It says that Israel is over and done, that the
Church is now the New Israel. It has replaced
Israel. So all the prophetic implications were
either fulfilled in the Old Covenant or in the
first century of the New Testament, the New Age,
so to speak, that now everything pertains to
the church. Everything's about the church. Problem
is we're doing this again. We're siloing these
things and saying it's either or again. You use
the word binary. Hold on. There's another way.
I know that's what I want to get at the end.
I'll let you have the punchline. No, you're going
to have the punchline, but I want to take us
through because you mentioned replacement and
fulfillment. That's exactly what comes up in
this next clip. Did Paula White or Dan Patrick
explain where you were wrong on doctrine? No.
No, they just said, I cannot hold firm to replacement
theology, which they don't know Catholics. It's
fulfillment theology. We believe that we are
the fulfillment. You know, it's not replaced.
They like to dig us and say, oh, you believe
in replacement theology. No, no, no. We're the
fulfillment. Christ is the fulfillment of Israel.
Well, that's what it says in the New Testament.
Yeah, exactly. I mean, it says it like on every
page. Okay, the theologian Tucker Carlson. Bless
Tucker's heart. So now there's kind of a little
nuance here, so replacement versus theology,
please. Well, she says we're not replacement
theology, we're fulfillment theology. I've never
even heard that term. It's not an official term,
but really what she's blending over into is what
I would call a hybrid theology, which brings
in covenant theology. And I would definitely
lean more towards covenant theology. We're gonna
get to covenant. Okay, we're gonna get to covenant
But she's pulling that in well as a piece, but
she's not the nuance, but she's not here I haven't
heard the whole no no no, it's it's mind -blowing
my brother pastor Jimmy It is mind -blowing because
this programming when I hear Tucker Carlson say
it's all over the Bible I'm like no page. It's
not it's like No, it's quite the opposite, and
that we'll get to, but now we get the explanation
from her. And this is just a mom. She was a beauty
queen, but she's a mom, and she's just trying
to do the right thing. And I have to be honest,
she sounds very bitter. She's got a bitter tone,
and maybe for good reasons, but she feels like
she's got... She's been screwed around her whole
life. She's very hurt. But this is the conversation.
This is what is driving the entire narrative.
And once we can get down to the basics of what
it is and what it isn't, then at least we can
feel good about defending whatever we want to
defend. So, but they're accusing you of believing
in something called replacement theology. For
people who don't follow this, and I'm kind of
one of them, I don't fully understand what that
means, what do they mean by that? They believe
that, so replacement theology, their claim is
that the church has replaced Israel. So, for
2 ,000 years, that's what all of the early church
fathers have taught, that we are the new Israel,
we're the spiritual Semites. They would literally
be rolling in their graves if they thought that
we were being told that 1948 Israel is some biblical
prophecy fulfillment. I mean, that alone is insane.
That they think that this political state of
Israel that was created in 48, mostly by atheists,
is some biblical prophecy being fulfilled. And
I mean, you're aware of Darby and Schofield,
and this is the fruit of that. And I have a feeling
that there are politicians who absolutely believe
that the 1948 Israel is fulfillment of prophecy.
And it may well be, but I'm like, whatever, God's
timing, God's deal, I don't know if we're supposed
to defend the government. I mean, there have
been a lot of bad governments in Israel, a lot
of bad kings, a lot of bad stuff has gone on
there. But this is the schism. And I don't think
all politicians believe this, but whether they're
using it as a reason to go along to get along
with the military industrial complex, and they're
hiding behind it, whether they fully believe
it, I'm not exactly sure. But this is what leads
to this this label of Zionism. So when you hear
Ted Cruz defending Genesis saying, well, trying
to defend, you know, if you bless Israel, you
will be blessed in sending money or supporting
militarily the Israeli army government, etc.
This is where the term Christian Zionism comes
from, which this good Catholic girl has never
heard of. Is there any other place in America,
I mean, in the world, rather, where you have
a big group of Christians who believe that 1948
Israel is a fulfillment of prophecy? No. In fact,
do you know, Tucker, that I asked my priest,
who I had several, I had about six priests guiding
me before this hearing, spiritually advising
me before this hearing, because I wanted to make
sure. I need to make sure that I know what I'm
saying and that it's actually accurate with what
the church teaches. The church. And I'll never
forget, he's from Spain. God bless him. He's
so, so sweet. And I said, Father, do you know
what Zionism is? He looked at me like I was an
alien. He's like, what's Zionism? I couldn't
believe it. I said, you realize in America that
these people like Paula White, Dan Patrick, Ted
Cruz, most of our politicians in government who
have power, who are in the White House praying
over the president, They're Zionists. They believe
that 1948 Israel is a biblical prophecy fulfillment.
He looked at me like I was crazy. He said, nobody's
ever taught that. So this made me think, do Catholics
in America, are they completely into fulfillment
and replacement? That's a good question. I can't
answer for Catholicism and their theology on
that. I know that when we were in Israel in 2005,
we were very connected to and involved with the
largest messianic church there. These were actual
Jewish people who had embraced Jesus Christ as
the Messiah, and there was a thriving church
up in the Haifa Bay area. Still there, going
strong, one of the largest congregations. They
believe that 1948 was a fulfillment of biblical
prophecy, that there would be a day where they
would be back in their land, and the land that
they believe God, by Scripture, promised them.
And so, when she says something so definitive
as, no one else believes this anywhere in the
world, I'm going, you're wrong. This is the enemy
speaking through her, obviously. I'm trying to
have some compassion too. I'm not trying to nail
her. I'm just saying when you say those nowhere,
nothing, no one, these definitive terms, you're
using a very wide paintbrush and you're brushing
these wide strokes. And I'm hearing that in the
rhetoric a lot. where not many people are actually
leaving room for the nuance to say, well, I may
not believe everything exactly the way you said
it, but yet I do see support for the truth or
the idea in the book of Romans that we as the
Gentiles have been grafted into the vine, which
makes us partners and brothers and sisters. And
then I look in Ephesians 2 and I find, wait,
the dividing wall has been broken down between
Jew and Gentile. They are now one new man. So
you can make a good case either way, but I think
you can make a gooder, a better case for the
C word. you wouldn't let me say earlier. This
is where it's open for you. It's the idea of
covenant theology, where God made covenants with
Israel. She used a word that I would use, that
we're in this long narrative. You look at the
narrative of the scripture, and a lot of prophecies
are now fulfilled now and fulfilled then. So
they're layered in nature. They don't always
have just one thing. They're typically stacked.
And so you'll see something happen then that
pertained to that prophetic word being spoken,
especially you hear Isaiah and all of them, Isaiah,
Ezekiel, but there's also future implications.
You get the book of Revelation and go, wow. He's
mirroring back to Ezekiel. He's mirroring back
to Isaiah. So it's both and, not either or. And
I think that's where I'm struggling to use the
word binary, where it makes this hard definition
between either or and no room for both and. Well,
that's what I had to discover. I thought it was
binary. I thought it was replacement theology,
dispensationalism. And the more I listen to you
and and the more we just had conversations, the
more I realized, oh, wait a minute, you heard
the key word here is Schofield study. They say
Schofield Bible, but we talked about the Schofield
study Bible. And so the conspiracy theory, and
this is my territory, you want to launch a conspiracy
theory, I'm going to look into it. So the theory
is that the whole Christian, everybody in Christianity
believes in the fulfillment and replacement theology
until this guy came along, and here it comes,
and he edited the Schofield Study Bible, which
technically, linguistically, yes, he edited a
study Bible. People take that as he edited the
Bible, and I'm not kidding, this is the genesis
of the problem, and created this hoax, this non
-truth, so that people would now be politically
motivated to defend the 1948 state of Israel
at any cost. And this is the reason we're in
the war and we'll pick up covenant theory right
after this short clip. Yeah, it's really scary.
Well, it's yeah. And especially since we just,
you know, wound up in a war thanks to this. I
mean, it's hard not to see this as all preparation
for for this war, which is resetting the world.
And they had to get rid of the the only dissenter
of that. of Zionism. They had to get rid of her
on this commission before the war. It was within
weeks. This is the enemy's best, best move ever.
He has made people believe that because of this
non -binary choice, because when I look at Schofield,
I had to go and look at the study Bible, Pastor
Jimmy, this became difficult for me. He actually
talks about covenant theory in there as well
and rejects it. out of whole cloth. No, no, no.
It can only be dispensationalism and it's these
periods. So I'm like, oh, hold on a second. So
he doesn't even think. So they may have actually,
that Bible, that study Bible may have been set
up for some reason, possibly, but nobody's talking
about covenant theology, which to me, It's right
there in black and white what God has, through
man, has written in there. This is not something
from the late 1800s. It's not from a study Bible.
This is from the original text. It's not somebody's
opinion about that. No. And for people now to
use this as the excuse, oh, this is why we're
going to war. Excuse my French, bullcrap. It's
about oil, and this is a sideshow which is hurting,
I think it's hurting believers who want to just,
like, and we learned this from our buddy Joe
who wrote in and said, what do you mean you support
Israel? Yeah, yeah, that was good. I'm glad he
did. It made us think it through. Yes, and I
think this was God bringing us to this point,
like, can we just discuss what is really going
on here and from your theological standpoint,
which I believe is the same as mine. I'm not
a theologian, but I'm a Jesus freak, and I can
read. Like, we pray for the peace of Jerusalem.
I pray for peace in the Middle East. If the 1948
Israeli state is part of fulfillment of Scripture,
hallelujah! That doesn't change my opinion of
war, or killing people one way or the other,
or a government. Do I even like my government
here in America? That has nothing to do with
it. Is that a correct way of saying it? Well,
eschatology, your viewpoint, and there's dozens
of them out there, but we talked about the top
three in terms of Israel. It does frame what
you say. It frames your worldview, but it doesn't
have to change your worldview. And here's the
thing is, We've got to be able to think and talk
about these things and have good conversations
about them as opposed to coming in, well, no
one does this outside of America or outside of
the White House is what she made it sound. They're
the only ones. I mean, just the broad stroke
language is completely what's been so frustrating
over the last few decades in America where if
you don't agree with me on every point, then
you hate me. It's more of that type of rhetoric.
But now it's been drug into theology, it's been
drug into Christianity, it's been into the faith
realm. So now faith becomes a weapon again, not
the first time. And I believe it's a weapon,
political weapon, to break apart the conservative
right, which is probably work of Satan itself.
Like, he has fingerprints all over this for 150
years. You know, at the end of the day, we need
to be honest about things. Does my theology,
and the word theology, all it means is logic
-ing about theos, theos, God, Greek word, Koine
Greek. Theology is the study of, or the logic
-ing of, the thinking about God. The Scripture
tells us we've been given the mind of Christ.
Now, it doesn't mean we're using it, but we've
been given it. You know what I'm saying? It doesn't
mean I'm always tapping into it. There are days
I'm not. There are weeks I'm not. But at the
end of the day, if we will pause and say, Lord,
Your Word says that I've been given the mind
of Christ, and it also says I've not been given
a spirit of fear, but of power and love and of
a sound mind, the ability to think well. Lord,
I want to apply these things. I want to apply
this truth to me as I think about, as I pray
about, as I read, as I study, as I ask questions.
And yet what we see are these, this bold bulldozer
type, it's not a conversation. These are just
a series of monologues that are out there, especially
on podcasts. Here we are. Instead of people being
humble and saying, you know what? Prove me wrong.
Help me understand. Maybe I'm not getting it.
Maybe I don't know the scripture. I'd love to
hear Tucker say, you know, I really don't know
the Bible. I'm new to this. I'm learning. But
for him to say blatantly out loud with passion,
it's on every page. I mean, it's just shocking
to me the lack of humility that we should be
approaching these things in. I see covenant theology
as, I don't even know if it's a blend or a hybrid,
but it's the middle ground of saying there's
this beautiful narrative of God coming to earth
in the form of his son Jesus to redeem the mistakes,
to redeem the sin, to redeem the mishaps and
missteps of mankind. Now how that impacts Israel,
how that impacts anybody, at the end of the day,
it impacts every human being on the planet. So
can we set some of this stuff aside and talk
about the real issues here? And it is this, is
Jesus Christ who he says he was? Is he the Messiah?
Is he the one they waited so long for? Well,
according to Simeon, the prophet who held up
baby Jesus like Mufasa, holding him up, I can
just hear the song, right? Waited his entire
lifetime to see the fulfillment of the Messiah
coming and he came and Can we focus on what needs
to be focused on but what these what I'm seeing
in podcast land and I heard a heard a pastor
say this recently on his platform is is They're
not building anyone up They're in the business
of tearing people down for likes and clicks and
sponsors and it's like what happened to being
a life -giving force on the air or in podcast
world on the internet of saying, let's build
something up. Let's build something good. And
that doesn't mean disparaging everybody who doesn't
agree with you. So that's where my struggle is
when we get into these arguments over which kind
of theology you're living in. But I hear what
you're saying because whatever that is, it frames
how you see the world. It frames how you interpret
a war where Israel and America seem to have partnered
up. A guy who did 11 tours in the Middle East
whose wife was killed by an IED in Syria, she
was also a military, he just quit his job because
he is convinced that Israel dragged us into a
war that we were supposed to fight for them.
This breaks my heart. That's the level that it's
come to. And so when Matt Long has a question
like that, how can we as believers address this
without showing a binary choice? And also I would
say to someone like Tucker, like if you know
the Bible so well, perhaps you need to look at
the you know, what's in your own eye when you're
trying to get the speck out of someone else's,
you know, it's like we can talk all day in proverbs
and different scripture about who's right or
who's wrong. The compassion has been thrown out
the window and it is the enemy who just wants
the world to hate Jews and Israel because that
is the result. So that has to be the mission
and that by itself tells me that prophecy is
underway and it's trying to be stopped by the
ongoing war in the heavenly realm. It actually
substantiates the prophetic narrative. Can I
just share something about covenant theology?
Covenant theology sees the whole Bible as one
unfolding story of God's promises to His people.
So there's continuity in this, often highlighting
continuity, like the church being grafted into
the family of faith. That's something that a
lot of people forget, is that we are not the
vine. We were grafted into it. And that puts
us not first, it puts us with. See the difference?
Replacement theology, though a controversial
label, suggests the church fully replaces Israel
in God's plan, meaning the promises to Israel
are now only fulfilled in the church. Covenant
theology, however, usually sees a role for both.
more of a grafting in rather than a replacement.
This is why if I had to identify and say, I'm
this, which I'd wrestle with that because I'm
all about definitions and nuances and it's almost
dangerous to say, I'm this. It's like buying
a prefabbed home. You didn't choose anything.
You just stepped into what somebody else built.
That's why I struggle with a lot of these labels.
But what I would say I'm more closely aligned
with is covenant theology. and it's because of
Romans, the book of Romans, about being grafted
into the vine, and that we're to be thankful
for that and thankful to the Jewish people for
that. There's a lot of things going on here.
I want to share a couple of things. Listen to
what—and this is out of 1 Peter chapter 2, and
it talks about this. It says this, but you are
a chosen people, a royal priesthood. a holy nation,
God's special possession. Now, you just read
that without any context, a lot of people are
going to say, oh, well, that's Israel because
that's from the book of Ezekiel. And then you
have to come back and say, actually, this was
written to the church. This was written to who
were both Jews and Gentiles. That's why in This
is why in Ephesians chapter 2, listen to this,
14, for he himself is our peace. Christ is our
peace who has made us both one. And he's talking
about Jews and Gentiles. He has made us both
one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing
wall of hostility. So to me, when I read that,
I don't see either or. That's the binary thing.
I see it as both and. That's the continuity of
covenant theology where, yes, God still has a
plan for His people. And will I continue to pray
for them? Absolutely. According to God's Word,
I'll stand on that and pray for them and ask
God to save them because it says until the time
of the Gentiles is fulfilled. Well, it hasn't
been fulfilled yet because evangelism is still
happening. The Great Commission is still happening.
So in the meantime, I pray for the redemption
and the salvation of Israel and Jerusalem, of
course, that they would come to know Jesus Christ
as Savior. I don't mean that to be offensive
to any Jewish person. It's from a heart of love.
It's from a heart of compassion. It's from a
heart of somebody who was not always a Christian.
A guy who, like you, later in life came to Christ
and was like, oh my goodness, this is amazing.
Then, as a new Christian, you're looking out
going, what are you guys fighting all about?
Why are you guys fighting all the time? We've
got business to do. We've got work to do. We
have a good message to share with everybody else,
but we're going to sit. You made a comment, this
side issue, this side thing or sidebar, whatever
you said, something earlier. That's really what
happens. These sidebar things become the main
thing which distracts us from the real main thing.
And that is sharing the love of God, sharing
the mercy of God, the grace of God, the heart
of God to the world. And my Jewish friends, Israeli
friends, I'm looking at you, Sir Brian. I love
that guy, by the way. What I love about him is
we can discuss, I can discuss Christ with him
and he'll just say, oh yeah, you know, just so
you know. we see him as an insurrectionist, he
wasn't the guy. And we can move on from there.
Exactly. And we can move on. It's not a hate
conversation. And it's not like I'm not praying
for him, he's praying for me. We are. And that's
what's beautiful. It's just so unfortunate that
our culture, particularly in America, but also
in Europe and other continents, is obsessed with
this. And unfortunately, I've seen the results
of how some of this ends up, and it's not pretty.
And then everyone is like, oh, that really sucked.
We shouldn't have done that. We should have killed
all these Jews. Let's reboot, and we won't do
that again. And it gets so bad where you get
restrictions on freedom of speech, which are
kind of creeping in very slowly, which I'm a
little nervous about. I mean, to say to a university,
you can't have this kind of speech going on,
or we won't fund you. It's like, that's borderline.
It's almost the problem in the opposite direction,
almost like overcorrection. It's like overcorrecting
wokeness. Like, no, no, no, we can't have that
either. So there's all these issues when ultimately,
and this won't happen in the next four years,
but I think we will see that President Trump
did a very courageous thing. If he pulls it off
and he believes he will, we could see an incredible
flourishing of peace in the Middle East. And
prosperity. Prosperity for all, including the
Iranian people. Exactly. And the Syrians, and
Jordanians, and Iraqis, and it really could get
to a great place. He did an amazing thing. I
just have to mention this. Did you see the State
of the Union? You probably saw the clip where
he said, if you think Americans should be supported
by their government over illegal alien stand
-up, Yes, and you know half of the Democrats
or more didn't get up Yeah, he in essence did
the same thing. He said anybody who thinks that
we should be Taking down this regime and opening
up the Straits of Hormuz and keeping that safe
send your ships over he said that on on Sunday
a Monday he said well There you go. You guys
are no good. We'll remember. What that was was
we're taking away that premium of $15 on a barrel
of oil. We're going to take that. We're going
to secure it. We're going to ensure shipping.
Now, he's not there yet. I'm just going to pray
for him that he gets there. He's systematically
deconstructing something that's been there. He's
pulling apart a very old worldwide financial
globalist system. And instead of seeing that
and praying for him and for our military men
and for everyone in the conflict, we're obsessed
with this one issue that is all... ultimately
meant to influence the midterm elections. Can
I settle something? Please do. Can I just kind
of go to the end of the story and pull a Paul
Harvey moment here? Yes, sir. Roman's 11, 25,
and 26. This is where, in these arguments, whether
it's Tucker and this lady or Tucker and whoever.
Everybody. It seems like Tucker and everybody
right now is always talking about this. No one
has ever pulled this passage up. Romans 11, 25
says this. This is the Apostle Paul in his completely
amazing epic work, theological work, Weight and
Gravity, the book of Romans. It's the greatest
theology. It is big. He says, I do not want you
to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and
sisters, so that you may not be conceited or
arrogant. Israel has experienced a hardening,
in part, until the full number of the Gentiles
has come in. Boom. So right there, God In his
plan, which is bigger than we can even wrap our
minds around, he puts a cap on Israel, not to
punish them, but to create an opportunity for
us to come into the same blessing. This is huge.
This goes back to the grafting and the vine,
but listen how he ends it. Verse 26, and in this
way, all Israel will be saved. As it is written,
the deliverer will come from Zion, that was Christ,
he came out of Israel, he will turn godlessness
away from Jacob. He's saying that because the
Israelites in a sense were forced to participate
in the fullness of the Gentiles, the Gentiles
coming in, he's saying because of that great
sacrifice, then they will be saved, they will
be redeemed. This is what Paul was trying to
help understand and that it was a mystery because
people didn't understand is why would why would
God turn the Israelites the Jewish people's face
away from Christ and It was in order that the
Gentiles would be able to come in and when that
time is up whatever then whenever that is all
the fullness of time Then he says all of Israel
will be saved. This is where I go back to when
people are just losing their minds over this
stuff. And I go, can we just read the end of
the book? Let's read the end of this treatise
of the Apostle Paul who declares both is going
to happen. The Gentiles are going to come in.
The fullness, that's us. You and I are reaping
that right now. But also the Jewish people, Israel
will be saved. It's all Igbok. It's going to
be okay. My favorite coffee mug. It's going to
be okay. God has a plan. He's working the plan.
We can split hairs on it all day long and get
mad and get upset and create 500 more podcasts.
You know what I mean? Yeah. And get sponsors
and clicks and lights and all that. But at the
end of the day, we're taking something that's
already been settled in Scripture and just pontificating
about it. Amen. And slaughtering one another
verbally. relationally. Families are divided
over this kind of stuff. That is not the intent
of Scripture, to divide. Although it does say,
Father, we turn against His Son. I mean, it does
divide just by its very nature. He came to divide.
By its very nature. And yet He's the Prince of
Peace. You know, for me, it's heavy. It's like,
I don't portend. Is that the right word? I don't
know what God's plan is. Jesus said he'd know
when it was all going to happen. Even the Son
of God does not know when it's going to happen.
So why would I even be bothered worrying about
it? I've got a job to do. That's one job. And
that is, you know, go out and make more disciples.
I think that's the only job. It's not my job
to argue about other stuff. And here's what we
know, and I'm sorry to interrupt. This is very
important. He is coming again. He's coming back.
And that was the primary driver of the first
century when they said of the disciples, these
men are turning the world upside down. That was
the driver. Jesus promised he would come back
and they lived into that promise. And because
he's tarried, because he didn't, that doesn't
diminish what it accomplished. And it should
be accomplishing the same thing in you and me.
we're 2 ,000 years closer to him coming back.
And tomorrow will be another day, 24 hours closer,
which means the further this goes down, the higher
the probability of that this could be the day,
this could be the year, and that should drive
us. What it should do is create guardrails on
our lives to say, I want to be ready. That's
what the whole point of eschatology is. It's
not to have charts and graphs and numbers and
all this stuff. But that makes for a great podcast.
Well, it sells books too. It sells books. It
makes movies. It does all kinds of stuff. There's
a whole industry built around this, but at the
end of the day, it is meant to be a driver for
us to give us guard rails so that we are ready
when he returns, whenever that is. I'm going
to end it on that, brother. I really appreciate
your insight on this. Of course. And I hope someone
Someone out there got something from this and
you can just calm down Calm down. It's gonna
be okay. Yes And with that we will land this
plane will be back next week with another episode
of we get to do this