WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.660 Let's do it. You want to pray today? No, I'm 00:00:02.660 --> 00:00:05.799 not ready for that yet, but I will in the near 00:00:05.799 --> 00:00:09.699 future. All right. Father, in Jesus' name, what 00:00:09.699 --> 00:00:12.560 a privilege it is to be before you. We truly 00:00:12.560 --> 00:00:16.219 do get to do this. It's not just a moniker. It's 00:00:16.219 --> 00:00:20.660 not just a saying or a slogan. It is a truth. 00:00:20.839 --> 00:00:23.460 We get to do what we do. And so thank you that 00:00:23.460 --> 00:00:26.640 we're here today. and to converse and talk about 00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:29.780 you, about the world, about other things, whatever 00:00:29.780 --> 00:00:32.000 it is Holy Spirit that you'd bring to our mind. 00:00:32.679 --> 00:00:35.479 And our heart's desire is that the things we 00:00:35.479 --> 00:00:39.460 talk about, maybe perhaps the things that are 00:00:39.460 --> 00:00:42.280 anointed and appointed for such a time as this, 00:00:42.859 --> 00:00:46.159 would help those who are listening to navigate 00:00:46.159 --> 00:00:50.420 and deal with this crazy life in this world. 00:00:50.570 --> 00:00:53.070 And so we pray, pray for everyone who hears this, 00:00:53.170 --> 00:00:54.990 that you would take this where it needs to go. 00:00:55.070 --> 00:00:59.929 In Jesus' name, amen. Amen. It's Wednesday, October 00:00:59.929 --> 00:01:03.729 1st. We get to do this. This is episode number 00:01:03.729 --> 00:01:23.319 four. We get to do this. Yes, we do get to do 00:01:23.319 --> 00:01:27.260 this. We do and it's our privilege and it's our 00:01:27.260 --> 00:01:29.560 joy to do so. Absolutely. How you doing, brother? 00:01:29.819 --> 00:01:32.959 Hey, I'm doing great. It's been a hot minute. 00:01:33.480 --> 00:01:35.859 It's been a wild week. Like two weeks. What is 00:01:35.859 --> 00:01:38.180 today, by the way? October 1st. There you go. 00:01:38.260 --> 00:01:42.000 We missed one because you were off in Nashville? 00:01:42.180 --> 00:01:44.340 Nashville. You got to tell us about Nashville, 00:01:44.379 --> 00:01:46.379 about the Nashville trip. So the Nashville trip 00:01:46.379 --> 00:01:49.500 was we took Pastor Brian and Naomi and Nomers, 00:01:49.599 --> 00:01:51.879 as I call her. I've called her that for 20 years. 00:01:53.260 --> 00:01:57.719 So their folks live there, Pastor Brian's. parents 00:01:57.719 --> 00:01:59.540 live there, and they're dear friends of ours. 00:01:59.620 --> 00:02:02.359 We've known them for decades. And so anytime 00:02:02.359 --> 00:02:04.379 we go back to Nashville, it's kind of a homecoming 00:02:04.379 --> 00:02:06.560 to get together with the Mandels, to get together 00:02:06.560 --> 00:02:10.419 with my kids and my newest grandbaby. Also in 00:02:10.419 --> 00:02:12.639 Nashville. They're in Nashville as well. But 00:02:12.639 --> 00:02:15.939 we were going for a conference that Alan Jackson 00:02:15.939 --> 00:02:18.340 puts on every year. It's called Culture and Christianity. 00:02:19.099 --> 00:02:22.080 And the unique thing about it this year that 00:02:22.080 --> 00:02:24.840 made it really, I guess, special, you'd say, 00:02:24.960 --> 00:02:28.800 or just different, is that Charlie and Erica 00:02:28.800 --> 00:02:31.180 Kirk were scheduled to be the keynote speakers. 00:02:31.460 --> 00:02:32.960 Yeah, that definitely didn't happen, I guess. 00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:36.360 That didn't happen, but it put a different tone 00:02:36.360 --> 00:02:40.240 and spin on the whole thing. The atmosphere was 00:02:40.240 --> 00:02:42.479 absolutely electric. The place was packed to 00:02:42.479 --> 00:02:47.939 the rafters. It was a sellout. and they house 00:02:47.939 --> 00:02:50.900 about 15 ,000 people. It's crazy. Really? That's 00:02:50.900 --> 00:02:52.039 how big the church is? Oh, it's huge. The church 00:02:52.039 --> 00:02:56.319 is 15 ,000. That's crazy. And growing. Wait, 00:02:56.500 --> 00:02:58.520 does Alan Jackson have his own jet? Because that's 00:02:58.520 --> 00:03:01.139 always what people think of. They think of mega 00:03:01.139 --> 00:03:04.319 church jet. I actually don't think he does. By 00:03:04.319 --> 00:03:06.259 the way, I was offered a jet. I didn't get to 00:03:06.259 --> 00:03:08.460 tell you this. What? I know. Hold on a second. 00:03:08.500 --> 00:03:10.099 I know, right? You're not going to tell me you 00:03:10.099 --> 00:03:12.719 turned it down. No, I just haven't. I talked 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:14.840 to the guy last week and said, let's talk about 00:03:14.840 --> 00:03:18.560 it. I know it's crazy. Can I fly it, please? 00:03:18.580 --> 00:03:20.860 So here's the deal. He heard, he heard me talking 00:03:20.860 --> 00:03:23.139 from him. Hey, we had to make a dash over here. 00:03:23.180 --> 00:03:25.659 I was on the airplane. When I got the news that 00:03:25.659 --> 00:03:27.800 Charlie Kirk had been shot, we were coming back. 00:03:27.800 --> 00:03:31.520 You're on Southwest. Cattle car. Herb's cattle 00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:34.430 car. Absolutely. And so, you know, we're watching 00:03:34.430 --> 00:03:38.389 other people, we're all grabbing our iPads and 00:03:38.389 --> 00:03:40.569 phones. But anyway, he heard me tell that story. 00:03:40.650 --> 00:03:42.830 And he was like, man, he said, you shouldn't 00:03:42.830 --> 00:03:45.990 have to take a three hour flight from, you know, 00:03:46.250 --> 00:03:49.949 San Antonio. Well, right. From Dallas Love, basically. 00:03:50.030 --> 00:03:53.069 Of course, you got to stop in love and to get 00:03:53.069 --> 00:03:56.129 here from Nashville. And he really felt bad about 00:03:56.129 --> 00:03:59.129 that. But he's an entrepreneur and he's got international 00:03:59.129 --> 00:04:02.650 businesses. And he just wrote me and said, hey, 00:04:03.199 --> 00:04:05.419 Man, I'm not trying to make any money here. I 00:04:05.419 --> 00:04:08.539 mean, if you just cover fuel and the pilot. That's 00:04:08.539 --> 00:04:12.479 what it costs. He said, man, I'd be glad to make 00:04:12.479 --> 00:04:14.780 sure you have dibs on that plane when you need 00:04:14.780 --> 00:04:17.240 to go. Wow. And so, yeah, I was going to tell 00:04:17.240 --> 00:04:19.899 you about that. That's actually how the big boys 00:04:19.899 --> 00:04:21.620 do it. It's like you want my plane, just got 00:04:21.620 --> 00:04:24.860 to pay for the pilot and the fuel. Yeah. So I 00:04:24.860 --> 00:04:26.740 guess technically you could say Pastor Jimmy 00:04:26.740 --> 00:04:29.079 has a plane. So let's, come on haters. Let's 00:04:29.079 --> 00:04:31.939 use it. Let's grab all the haters. Just pile 00:04:31.939 --> 00:04:34.370 on. because as long as I go, I'll pay for it, 00:04:34.649 --> 00:04:38.230 then it's good. So anyway, that opportunity awaits. 00:04:38.610 --> 00:04:41.149 So that was a really cool thing. I've never had 00:04:41.149 --> 00:04:43.629 anyone offer me a plane before. Except for me. 00:04:43.949 --> 00:04:46.310 Well, you, and that's different because we're 00:04:46.310 --> 00:04:48.670 besties, but I mean, you know, just somebody 00:04:48.670 --> 00:04:51.509 in the congregation who's got that kind of access 00:04:51.509 --> 00:04:55.819 and says he wants to help us out and yeah. Anyway, 00:04:56.060 --> 00:04:57.519 so I interrupted you about that. I don't own 00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:01.160 one, but so yeah. Believe me, owning aircraft 00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:03.579 is way overrated, I can tell you. It's like owning 00:05:03.579 --> 00:05:08.639 a boat. Worse. So we were there for that conference. 00:05:08.819 --> 00:05:10.500 The tone was different, as I mentioned. So what 00:05:10.500 --> 00:05:15.399 they did, they brought in Eric Metaxas in place, 00:05:15.399 --> 00:05:17.720 you know, to fill that slot. Eric is just such 00:05:17.720 --> 00:05:20.939 a, he's just really has a finger on the pulse 00:05:20.939 --> 00:05:24.300 of things. And so I loved what he brought. Every 00:05:24.300 --> 00:05:30.300 speaker knew Charlie personally. So there was 00:05:30.300 --> 00:05:32.540 a lot of weight in the room. I mean, you could 00:05:32.540 --> 00:05:35.439 feel the gravity of mourning, the gravity of 00:05:35.439 --> 00:05:39.459 grief in the room. And yet at the same time, 00:05:39.560 --> 00:05:43.379 there was this incredible electricity. Like there 00:05:43.379 --> 00:05:45.920 was... When we went into worship, Matthew West 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:48.759 and his daughter came out and that was really 00:05:48.759 --> 00:05:51.399 cool and led worship. She was phenomenal, by 00:05:51.399 --> 00:05:53.720 the way, and she's young, but wow, I think she's 00:05:53.720 --> 00:05:56.259 18. But they came out and led worship. The first 00:05:56.259 --> 00:05:58.959 time he came out with the band, second session, 00:05:59.160 --> 00:06:02.160 it was her and him with a spotlight on each of 00:06:02.160 --> 00:06:04.939 them and just him with his guitar. I love the 00:06:04.939 --> 00:06:09.139 band, obviously, but that was actually more worshipful. 00:06:09.620 --> 00:06:12.350 They did some of his songs. Of course. You know 00:06:12.350 --> 00:06:16.339 the he did the song. Unashamed? Yeah, unashamed. 00:06:16.779 --> 00:06:19.939 But he did the version where Matt, by the way, 00:06:20.019 --> 00:06:22.860 Matt Munt, our buddy, he's the one who grabbed 00:06:22.860 --> 00:06:24.899 all the pieces out of that. Did he have those 00:06:24.899 --> 00:06:28.819 pieces in that? It's on Hello Fred right now. 00:06:28.839 --> 00:06:31.660 Yeah, I love it. When it comes on, I get chill 00:06:31.660 --> 00:06:33.240 bumps. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, so when I was 00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:36.160 with Matt Munt in Tennessee doing his podcast, 00:06:36.339 --> 00:06:39.620 that's another story I'm going off. But anyway, 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:43.000 so I asked Matt, because he works with Matthew 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:46.569 West, I said, Did you do the, you know, bites 00:06:46.569 --> 00:06:48.129 or the music or the editing? He said, I didn't 00:06:48.129 --> 00:06:49.990 do the editing, but I did pull off the clips 00:06:49.990 --> 00:06:52.709 for that. Like, that's so awesome. It's so good. 00:06:52.870 --> 00:06:55.889 And Matt's such a great guy. But it is, the song 00:06:55.889 --> 00:06:58.310 is fantastic. I mean, he does, it seems like 00:06:58.310 --> 00:07:00.829 every year he comes out with an anthem. Yeah. 00:07:00.829 --> 00:07:03.029 Yeah. Just kind of a big anthem. Yeah. Let's 00:07:03.029 --> 00:07:06.290 pray, you know, don't stop praying. I'm unashamed 00:07:06.290 --> 00:07:08.589 with the gospel of Jesus Christ. Just solid. 00:07:08.589 --> 00:07:11.009 It's perfect. Solid. Perfect. So yeah, so they 00:07:11.009 --> 00:07:13.680 interjected Charlie's... some quotes and stuff, 00:07:13.860 --> 00:07:15.600 and somebody else, a couple other people. I wasn't 00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:17.920 sure who it was. There's a couple other voices 00:07:17.920 --> 00:07:21.240 in there. But anyway, it was very powerful. So 00:07:21.240 --> 00:07:23.899 yeah, so I could spend time. So we did that conference. 00:07:24.079 --> 00:07:27.959 It was, like I said, electric. We go out there 00:07:27.959 --> 00:07:30.459 because it fills our tanks, fills our buckets. 00:07:30.759 --> 00:07:34.319 And it's really a lot of what we've been talking 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:38.149 about just as friends for many years is Bringing 00:07:38.149 --> 00:07:40.589 culture and Christianity together and speaking 00:07:40.589 --> 00:07:43.569 outside the walls of the church, which is is 00:07:43.569 --> 00:07:45.970 just I'm so proud of our church I'm so proud 00:07:45.970 --> 00:07:48.569 of the the staff and everybody here because it 00:07:48.569 --> 00:07:50.889 really it resonates so well and that you see 00:07:50.889 --> 00:07:53.250 it's filling up We got people are parking in 00:07:53.250 --> 00:08:01.069 my spot passage. You mean We had people showing 00:08:01.069 --> 00:08:04.110 up early this week because that very reason I 00:08:04.110 --> 00:08:06.959 was unreal. I've never seen this before There 00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:08.980 is a phenomenon going on. I was listening to 00:08:08.980 --> 00:08:15.199 Josh Howerton and Jason McPherson, several mega 00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:17.019 church pastors, but they're all young. These 00:08:17.019 --> 00:08:20.579 guys are in their 30s and 40s, and they're mega 00:08:20.579 --> 00:08:23.180 church pastors. There's five of them. They're 00:08:23.180 --> 00:08:24.899 all talking back and forth about the Charter 00:08:24.899 --> 00:08:27.759 Kirk effect, what happened, the impact, what 00:08:27.759 --> 00:08:29.600 it's doing to their churches. Of course, they 00:08:29.600 --> 00:08:32.120 have mega churches. Most of their churches are 00:08:32.120 --> 00:08:35.289 non -denominational, large churches. you know, 00:08:35.330 --> 00:08:37.250 we're talking tens of thousands of people in 00:08:37.250 --> 00:08:39.450 these churches. Josh Howerton, I mean, he's in 00:08:39.450 --> 00:08:44.029 his 40s, early 40s. His church runs 27 ,000 people 00:08:44.029 --> 00:08:47.090 in person. Wow. Not just online, not just, I 00:08:47.090 --> 00:08:50.490 mean, 27 ,000. Where is his church? He's in Rockwall, 00:08:50.529 --> 00:08:53.870 Texas, just east Dallas, east of the lake. That's 00:08:53.870 --> 00:08:57.190 insane. I know. What an amount of people. Amazing. 00:08:58.160 --> 00:09:00.059 Phenomenal young pastors. These are kind of the 00:09:00.059 --> 00:09:01.840 up -and -coming voices. Do you think at some 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:04.059 point it's too big? Can a megachurch be... I 00:09:04.059 --> 00:09:06.480 mean, what is... Because for Fredericksburg's 00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:08.519 population, we have a megachurch. Yeah, we would 00:09:08.519 --> 00:09:09.480 be considered that. You know, like a thousand 00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:13.379 people. Is there a point where it's too big? 00:09:13.779 --> 00:09:15.539 Have you ever thought about these things? Oh 00:09:15.539 --> 00:09:17.379 yeah, I've thought about it a lot. I mean, it 00:09:17.379 --> 00:09:20.419 kind of depends on your personality as a leader. 00:09:21.019 --> 00:09:23.700 I've never aspired for that. That's not something 00:09:23.700 --> 00:09:27.320 that makes me get excited. wanting to have 15 00:09:27.320 --> 00:09:30.600 campuses and 30 ,000 people. Sounds like a job. 00:09:30.940 --> 00:09:34.879 Sounds like a big J -O -B, right? But I'm very 00:09:34.879 --> 00:09:38.159 relational and very personal, so I like to know 00:09:38.159 --> 00:09:41.700 who's in the church and I like to have friends 00:09:41.700 --> 00:09:44.179 in the church. I was sitting with a group of 00:09:44.179 --> 00:09:46.419 pastors. I'm going to just go chase this little 00:09:46.419 --> 00:09:48.639 rabbit because I'm going to talk about this tonight. 00:09:50.340 --> 00:09:51.879 A couple of weeks ago, I was sitting with some 00:09:51.879 --> 00:09:55.070 young pastors. And they're all having a hard 00:09:55.070 --> 00:09:56.950 time. They're kind of struggling in their churches. 00:09:57.129 --> 00:09:59.409 They're small churches and they can't get a lot 00:09:59.409 --> 00:10:01.330 of traction. I've talked to them about engaging 00:10:01.330 --> 00:10:03.129 culture and they're like, oh, we can't do that. 00:10:03.210 --> 00:10:05.570 They would fire me next week. I mean, these guys, 00:10:06.789 --> 00:10:09.490 but they have 80 people, 50 people, 40. I mean, 00:10:09.549 --> 00:10:13.090 it's hard. I remember being young and doing all 00:10:13.090 --> 00:10:16.009 that, paying my dues. This is how you get your 00:10:16.009 --> 00:10:20.389 reps in. And so I was talking to them and one 00:10:20.389 --> 00:10:24.009 of the guys, Somehow the topic came up about 00:10:24.009 --> 00:10:27.049 having friends in the church and he goes, oh 00:10:27.049 --> 00:10:30.850 no, I have no friends. I will never have friends 00:10:30.850 --> 00:10:35.129 in the congregation. I mean, first of all, the 00:10:35.129 --> 00:10:37.370 look on my face probably gave me away because 00:10:37.370 --> 00:10:39.649 I'm just like, oh, Pastor Jimmy doesn't agree 00:10:39.649 --> 00:10:42.309 with that. You're all 40 years old and you're 00:10:42.309 --> 00:10:44.690 telling me, he said, because you got to maintain 00:10:44.690 --> 00:10:47.889 your authority. They got to know you're the pastor. 00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:50.600 And I'm sitting there going, there's a reason 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:53.299 why you only have 30 people in your church. Yeah. 00:10:53.519 --> 00:10:55.779 You didn't say that out loud. No, but I certainly 00:10:55.779 --> 00:10:59.039 thought it. Because I didn't want to come back 00:10:59.039 --> 00:11:03.220 and say something cutting. I didn't want to disparage 00:11:03.220 --> 00:11:07.639 him. But the way he said it was with such conviction. 00:11:07.940 --> 00:11:09.860 And I just thought, even if I said something, 00:11:09.940 --> 00:11:11.720 it wouldn't have been gone. It's not really the 00:11:11.720 --> 00:11:13.759 pastors, but their elders or their board won't 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:15.519 let them do that. That's what it sounds like. 00:11:15.690 --> 00:11:18.389 Are you talking about culture or having friends 00:11:18.389 --> 00:11:20.029 in the church? Well, both, maybe. Let's talk 00:11:20.029 --> 00:11:22.970 about, yeah, those are separate issues. A lot 00:11:22.970 --> 00:11:27.350 of churches that are elder -led or we'll call 00:11:27.350 --> 00:11:32.029 them deacon -possessed. I know, right? They are 00:11:32.029 --> 00:11:35.070 hard on their pastors. They put a lot of restrictions 00:11:35.070 --> 00:11:37.629 around them. And so if you're a congregational 00:11:37.629 --> 00:11:39.889 -led church, that means the church votes on everything. 00:11:39.929 --> 00:11:42.350 Right. You can get in some hot water. Yeah, I 00:11:42.350 --> 00:11:44.429 can see. So it really depends on your government 00:11:44.429 --> 00:11:47.350 structure. We built a structure where, you know, 00:11:47.690 --> 00:11:51.009 the staff and then we have lay elders, but we 00:11:51.009 --> 00:11:54.710 have staff elders. So we do the day to day. We're 00:11:54.710 --> 00:11:56.710 boots on the ground. Right. And we get to make 00:11:56.710 --> 00:12:00.070 those decisions. But then we defer to our board 00:12:00.070 --> 00:12:02.250 of directors, which is like the apostolic council 00:12:02.250 --> 00:12:05.769 of Acts 15. So we built on that model. What it 00:12:05.769 --> 00:12:08.149 allows us to do is get things done. We're not 00:12:08.149 --> 00:12:10.250 sitting in red tape and waiting for everybody 00:12:10.250 --> 00:12:16.389 to vote and then seeing people do mutinies and 00:12:16.389 --> 00:12:21.169 voter registration to get that guy out. I've 00:12:21.169 --> 00:12:23.149 seen that ugly stuff in churches before. That's 00:12:23.149 --> 00:12:25.049 how you get a church split. We didn't build that 00:12:25.049 --> 00:12:27.909 way. Neither do these churches that are growing. 00:12:28.029 --> 00:12:30.049 The churches that are growing and moving the 00:12:30.049 --> 00:12:32.549 needle in the world right now are churches that 00:12:32.549 --> 00:12:34.549 are getting it done and they've got a structure 00:12:34.549 --> 00:12:37.960 that allows them to do that. As far as the culture 00:12:37.960 --> 00:12:41.200 thing, a lot of these young pastors feel restricted. 00:12:41.419 --> 00:12:43.700 You know, when I made the decision to go full 00:12:43.700 --> 00:12:47.000 speed ahead, I had to count the cost because 00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:50.740 I did not know what would happen. It was an act 00:12:50.740 --> 00:12:53.480 of faith, but it was also an act of conviction 00:12:53.480 --> 00:12:55.980 before the Lord that I felt like as a pastor, 00:12:56.139 --> 00:12:59.899 I have a responsibility to speak the truth because 00:12:59.899 --> 00:13:03.299 of love. Speak the truth in love, speak the truth 00:13:03.299 --> 00:13:08.220 because of love. And to hold back, God had moved 00:13:08.220 --> 00:13:10.539 me into a place where it would be sin for me. 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:13.679 The scripture says that for a man to know what 00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:16.519 to do and not do it to him, it is sin. That's 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:18.159 the scripture. Do you know which one it is by 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:20.580 any chance? I can tell you. It's not that important. 00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:22.759 It's in the Bible. It's in the New Testament. 00:13:23.460 --> 00:13:25.620 It's at the end. It is in the New Testament. 00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:27.720 I do know it's in the back half of the Bible. 00:13:27.919 --> 00:13:35.129 See, that's me. So anyway. I felt like to not 00:13:35.129 --> 00:13:37.909 begin to address these things and really go there 00:13:37.909 --> 00:13:41.789 would be sin for me because once you have truth 00:13:41.789 --> 00:13:43.950 and you have a revelation or understanding of 00:13:43.950 --> 00:13:46.789 something, you're now responsible for it before 00:13:46.789 --> 00:13:51.129 God. As a pastor, that weighs heavy because I'm 00:13:51.129 --> 00:13:52.990 not only responsible to God, I'm responsible 00:13:52.990 --> 00:13:56.090 to hundreds of people or maybe even thousands, 00:13:56.269 --> 00:13:59.250 depending on your scope and reach. And so anyway, 00:14:00.190 --> 00:14:03.940 these guys are scared. And maybe they don't have 00:14:03.940 --> 00:14:06.539 the same level of conviction I do about culture 00:14:06.539 --> 00:14:09.899 because they love their Bible studies and they 00:14:09.899 --> 00:14:11.440 talk about their preaching and their sermons 00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:13.879 all the time. I never talk about my preaching 00:14:13.879 --> 00:14:16.700 and my sermons. I talk about the message. The 00:14:16.700 --> 00:14:19.019 sermons come and go. It's the message that we 00:14:19.019 --> 00:14:21.559 carry that matters because the message is the 00:14:21.559 --> 00:14:26.399 one thing. It's the bullet. It's the shot, hopefully 00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:29.960 heard around the world. And so anyway, Walking 00:14:29.960 --> 00:14:31.799 with these guys is interesting, but to hear a 00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:34.500 young pastor say, I don't have friends in the 00:14:34.500 --> 00:14:36.759 church. I will never have friends in the church 00:14:36.759 --> 00:14:39.279 because they need to know who the authority is. 00:14:39.539 --> 00:14:43.860 And I'm like, whoa, I didn't say this, but you 00:14:43.860 --> 00:14:45.980 know me. I like to play on the worship team. 00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:49.059 Yes, you do. And it's not just because I like 00:14:49.059 --> 00:14:51.519 to play music. That's there. Of course, I love 00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:54.019 playing guitar and I've done it for my whole 00:14:54.019 --> 00:14:56.659 adult life as a Christian. But the other piece 00:14:56.659 --> 00:15:00.009 of it, it allows me to be a church member. It 00:15:00.009 --> 00:15:02.210 allows me to contribute something that's not 00:15:02.210 --> 00:15:06.289 preaching, that's not leading. I'm submitted 00:15:06.289 --> 00:15:09.490 to Pastor Russ, our worship pastor. And if he 00:15:09.490 --> 00:15:12.490 tells me he doesn't like that lick or tone that 00:15:12.490 --> 00:15:14.929 down... How could he, Pastor Jimmy? Your licks 00:15:14.929 --> 00:15:20.230 are the best. I say, yes, sir. Yes, sir. I remember 00:15:20.230 --> 00:15:22.450 I didn't tell Russ this ever, but it'll be a 00:15:22.450 --> 00:15:25.470 joke if he hears this about five years ago. I 00:15:25.470 --> 00:15:27.940 mean, I'd only been here a few years ago. He 00:15:27.940 --> 00:15:30.899 was a little more temperamental back then. And 00:15:30.899 --> 00:15:33.240 he turned and snapped at me one time in rehearsal 00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:36.039 and he did not like what I played. And he made 00:15:36.039 --> 00:15:40.000 a snarky comment, I quit for six months. I was 00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:42.419 like, okay, I don't need another headache in 00:15:42.419 --> 00:15:46.019 the church. So I stepped off the team for six 00:15:46.019 --> 00:15:47.779 months and that's not why I took a break this 00:15:47.779 --> 00:15:50.320 last year. That's a whole different thing. I 00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:54.210 just really just focused. So yeah, I quit because 00:15:54.210 --> 00:15:56.830 he made me mad. We got into a tuss. You rage 00:15:56.830 --> 00:15:59.669 quit the worst team. I took my toys and went 00:15:59.669 --> 00:16:04.289 home. Obviously, Charlie Kirk dominates our world, 00:16:04.350 --> 00:16:10.370 dominates the world of faith of the church. I 00:16:10.370 --> 00:16:11.970 have a couple of things that I brought with me 00:16:11.970 --> 00:16:14.269 today because you know me. I'm doing my prep. 00:16:15.029 --> 00:16:17.990 First of all, you blew my mind this past week. 00:16:18.190 --> 00:16:22.110 You blew my mind. Read the Bible. I've read it 00:16:22.110 --> 00:16:25.289 twice. Every day I'm in it for an hour. I'm reading 00:16:25.289 --> 00:16:29.230 things over and over again. And you sent me a 00:16:29.230 --> 00:16:31.950 scripture that I'm like, how did I never see 00:16:31.950 --> 00:16:39.669 this before? And it is Isaiah 812. And I love 00:16:39.669 --> 00:16:42.450 this so much because there's so much, right now 00:16:42.450 --> 00:16:45.450 particularly, where the whole world, and it doesn't 00:16:45.450 --> 00:16:48.240 matter how many times I... I go through it. The 00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:51.299 whole world is in Charlie Kirk, death conspiracy, 00:16:51.879 --> 00:16:57.080 the magic bullet is the catapact. And so, this 00:16:57.080 --> 00:16:59.379 scripture fits it so well. I think that's why, 00:16:59.500 --> 00:17:01.539 again, we text several times a day, so I think 00:17:01.539 --> 00:17:03.399 that's why I sent it to you. Actually, I'm going 00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:07.279 to read 11 through 17, because even in my Bible, 00:17:07.420 --> 00:17:10.819 it's indented, which I think means something. 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:15.359 And it has a heading in my Bible, a call to trust 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:19.539 the Lord. So it starts with 11. The Lord has 00:17:19.539 --> 00:17:22.000 given me a strong warning not to think like everyone 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:24.619 else does. He said, and this is Isaiah who received 00:17:24.619 --> 00:17:27.680 this word, don't call everything a conspiracy. 00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:31.160 Hello. Wow. Boom, got my attention. Drop the 00:17:31.160 --> 00:17:34.240 mic. Like they do. And don't live in dread of 00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:36.740 what frightens them. Make the Lord of heaven's 00:17:36.740 --> 00:17:38.960 armies holy in your life. He is the one you should 00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:41.880 fear. He is the one who should make you tremble. 00:17:41.980 --> 00:17:44.240 He will keep you safe, but to Israel and Judah, 00:17:54.139 --> 00:18:08.759 So, I went, I read like five different translations, 00:18:08.859 --> 00:18:12.180 went back to King James conspiracy using King 00:18:12.180 --> 00:18:15.640 James. Wow. And I was like, wow, this is amazing. 00:18:16.859 --> 00:18:19.700 But I also pulled up the message version. And 00:18:19.700 --> 00:18:21.740 so there it says, a boulder blocking your way. 00:18:22.140 --> 00:18:24.940 It's a little more. Now, interestingly, the message 00:18:24.940 --> 00:18:28.039 Bible doesn't use the term conspiracy, which 00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:32.250 I found unfortunate. But God spoke strong to 00:18:32.250 --> 00:18:34.289 me, grabbed me with both hands, warned me not 00:18:34.289 --> 00:18:40.250 to go along with this people. And so I take it 00:18:40.250 --> 00:18:44.490 not as, you know, there aren't conspiracies. 00:18:44.549 --> 00:18:49.529 It's like, don't bother with that. Don't what 00:18:49.529 --> 00:18:52.009 these people say. He makes a clear distinction. 00:18:52.589 --> 00:18:55.049 These people are doing conspiracy stuff. That's 00:18:55.049 --> 00:18:57.329 fine. Doesn't mean there's not conspiracies and 00:18:57.329 --> 00:19:00.130 things going on, but trust in the Lord. which 00:19:00.130 --> 00:19:06.609 comes right back to put down your screens, pick 00:19:06.609 --> 00:19:11.910 up your Bible. That's really where my thinking 00:19:11.910 --> 00:19:19.809 is going. But I do have a bit of a conspiracy 00:19:19.809 --> 00:19:25.309 to discuss. Right after it says don't call everything 00:19:25.309 --> 00:19:28.710 a conspiracy. Five words. Not everything. But 00:19:28.710 --> 00:19:32.009 what's happening is, so on one side, and unfortunately 00:19:32.009 --> 00:19:34.769 there's sides here, we're all obsessed with who 00:19:34.769 --> 00:19:38.450 killed Charlie, all of these wild things, body 00:19:38.450 --> 00:19:41.730 armor, ricochets, on and on and on and on. Holograms. 00:19:42.650 --> 00:19:47.190 Holograms. CGI, AI, on and on and on and on. 00:19:47.630 --> 00:19:50.430 And I understand it, I understand why people, 00:19:50.589 --> 00:19:54.329 we've been raised on TV shows where it all gets 00:19:54.329 --> 00:19:56.869 resolved in 22 minutes minus the commercials, 00:19:56.869 --> 00:20:01.049 you know But I have been studying a lot about 00:20:01.049 --> 00:20:05.190 the true enemy of America and and obviously the 00:20:05.190 --> 00:20:09.289 devil is the enemy but when I look historically 00:20:09.289 --> 00:20:12.349 as we come up on a 250th, there's still a lot 00:20:12.349 --> 00:20:17.609 of Old world that does not like what we did which 00:20:17.609 --> 00:20:22.519 is you know, we left England we said hey King, 00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:24.539 you're the church, you're the boss of the Church 00:20:24.539 --> 00:20:26.579 of England, you're not letting us pray how we 00:20:26.579 --> 00:20:29.519 want to, not worship the way we want to. We're 00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:30.819 going to start our own thing, we're going to 00:20:30.819 --> 00:20:33.940 do it over here in this new land, and all of 00:20:33.940 --> 00:20:35.920 the United States, all of America was founded 00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:38.059 on the Bible. Just look at the Founder's Bible 00:20:38.059 --> 00:20:41.839 to understand that and see all the original documents 00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:44.740 from the Mayflower Compact. Actually, when they 00:20:44.740 --> 00:20:46.839 put the cross before the Mayflower Compact, that 00:20:46.839 --> 00:20:48.960 was... Where was that? They made that declaration. 00:20:49.240 --> 00:20:51.160 I've got that actually. Bedford, but it wasn't 00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:54.420 Bedford. No, it was... They put the cross up. 00:20:54.440 --> 00:20:56.859 It's called the Dedication Prayer of 1607 in 00:20:56.859 --> 00:20:59.000 Jamestown. Jamestown, that's it. Right. And so 00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:01.220 they said, hey man, this is it. We're here to 00:21:01.220 --> 00:21:02.839 spread the gospel. We're going to build this 00:21:02.839 --> 00:21:07.779 new land. But it's not like the East India Company 00:21:07.779 --> 00:21:11.140 from the Netherlands or... the bloodlines of 00:21:11.140 --> 00:21:16.079 all these countries that have monarchies really 00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:18.680 went away. And we don't want to go too deep into 00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:22.119 it, but I've always thought, is this really just 00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:24.779 ceremonial? Well, no, of course it's not. So 00:21:24.779 --> 00:21:27.319 I think there's a lot coming out of the monarchies, 00:21:27.579 --> 00:21:29.539 and they have their own deep state and everything 00:21:29.539 --> 00:21:33.640 that is really... What nation doesn't? True. 00:21:33.829 --> 00:21:36.609 that is very, that is messing with us. And I 00:21:36.609 --> 00:21:39.369 think that we are blessed by God with President 00:21:39.369 --> 00:21:43.609 Trump, who is literally fighting against that. 00:21:43.609 --> 00:21:45.390 And I think it's being overlooked, it's being 00:21:45.390 --> 00:21:48.269 missed. And I just want to play one background 00:21:48.269 --> 00:21:51.589 clip of that. This is from two ladies, they're 00:21:51.589 --> 00:21:54.490 called Prometheus Action. And they actually come 00:21:54.490 --> 00:21:56.289 out of the Lyndon LaRouche camp. I don't know 00:21:56.289 --> 00:21:58.839 if you remember Lyndon LaRouche. classic guy. 00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:01.859 I mean, you know, for years, he's dead now, but 00:22:01.859 --> 00:22:04.900 for decades, he was always trying to uncover, 00:22:04.900 --> 00:22:06.940 you know, the truth of what's really going on 00:22:06.940 --> 00:22:10.859 in government, etc. And so they're older, our 00:22:10.859 --> 00:22:13.859 age, to be honest about it. And here's just a 00:22:13.859 --> 00:22:17.839 little clip. They do they do shows like podcasts, 00:22:17.859 --> 00:22:20.180 I think every every other day or every two days. 00:22:20.440 --> 00:22:22.720 And I like a lot what they're saying. So I just 00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:24.940 wanted to set up our conversation with this on 00:22:24.940 --> 00:22:28.960 Sunday at the Charlie Cook Memorial. Our chronic 00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:32.759 infection with British foreign policy diseases 00:22:32.759 --> 00:22:36.240 began to be cured. Our founder's vision of the 00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:39.960 United States was revived. Contrary to the British 00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:43.339 agent Henry Kissinger, we were again a sovereign 00:22:43.339 --> 00:22:45.839 nation living and building and creating according 00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:49.799 to God's laws, freeing ourselves from the empire's 00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:52.779 foreign wars. But you wouldn't know that from 00:22:52.779 --> 00:22:55.599 the media. The New York Times and others imply 00:22:55.599 --> 00:22:58.980 that the Kirk event weirdly joined religion with 00:22:58.980 --> 00:23:02.980 Donald Trump's America first, worker first economic 00:23:02.980 --> 00:23:06.700 policies. They said this had never happened before 00:23:06.700 --> 00:23:10.420 at this scale. Here's the key quote. Perhaps 00:23:10.420 --> 00:23:14.259 never before at such a grand scale has such a 00:23:14.259 --> 00:23:17.970 fusion taken place in a public display. More 00:23:17.970 --> 00:23:20.650 than just a tribute to the style of Mr. Kirk's 00:23:20.650 --> 00:23:23.710 evangelical tradition, this service represented 00:23:23.710 --> 00:23:26.849 a pinnacle event reflecting the degree to which 00:23:26.849 --> 00:23:30.089 conservative Christianity has melded with Republican 00:23:30.089 --> 00:23:34.609 politics in the Trump era. But prior to the most 00:23:34.609 --> 00:23:37.869 recent run of total control of our foreign policy 00:23:37.869 --> 00:23:41.109 by the British Foreign Office, we were always 00:23:41.109 --> 00:23:44.769 like this. All our founding documents and all 00:23:44.769 --> 00:23:47.670 our founders' foreign policies insisted We were 00:23:47.670 --> 00:23:50.970 guided by God in a continuous mission to find 00:23:50.970 --> 00:23:54.769 truth. We fled here to escape the forever wars 00:23:54.769 --> 00:23:57.529 of Europe's oligarchs. I'm Barbara Boyd, and 00:23:57.529 --> 00:23:59.930 I've been investigating and documenting the modern 00:23:59.930 --> 00:24:02.410 British financial empire's subversion of our 00:24:02.410 --> 00:24:06.210 country since 1973. So I play that just so they 00:24:06.210 --> 00:24:08.329 don't just hear it from me, that, you know, this 00:24:08.329 --> 00:24:10.009 is true. And you hear what the New York Times 00:24:10.009 --> 00:24:12.910 writes like, this is crazy. What's going on in 00:24:12.910 --> 00:24:16.680 order for us as believers as people who want 00:24:16.680 --> 00:24:19.400 to speak into culture, if we want to address 00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:22.180 it, because we can't just go out hating everybody 00:24:22.180 --> 00:24:24.700 or like, you're over there, I'm over here. If 00:24:24.700 --> 00:24:27.559 we have to understand the other side to be understood, 00:24:27.960 --> 00:24:31.720 you have to first understand. And so, wow, the 00:24:31.720 --> 00:24:33.960 media, which most people won't listen to this. 00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:36.619 I'm the guy that listens to NPR. I'm the guy 00:24:36.619 --> 00:24:41.000 that watches MSNBC. It's really getting pretty 00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:44.269 insane. And so this next clip is from what I 00:24:44.269 --> 00:24:47.289 call middle management of the North Sea Nexus 00:24:47.289 --> 00:24:50.690 of, you know, I think the Clintons, they are. 00:24:50.859 --> 00:24:53.059 the kind of the middle management kind of totally. 00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:55.940 Are you going to play her? Yes. Oh, I know what 00:24:55.940 --> 00:24:59.079 clip this is. Here it is. We haven't gotten to 00:24:59.079 --> 00:25:01.640 the more perfect union and we fought a civil 00:25:01.640 --> 00:25:04.720 war over part of it. And people have been protesting, 00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:08.039 you know, for hundreds of years that, you know, 00:25:08.180 --> 00:25:11.319 things were not as they should be given our ideals 00:25:11.319 --> 00:25:15.559 and how we should be moving toward them. So I 00:25:15.559 --> 00:25:19.220 think that's what makes us so special as a country. 00:25:19.660 --> 00:25:22.940 And the idea that you could turn the clock back 00:25:22.940 --> 00:25:27.880 and try to recreate a world that never was dominated 00:25:27.880 --> 00:25:31.640 by, you know, let's say it, white men of a certain 00:25:31.640 --> 00:25:34.599 persuasion, a certain religion, a certain point 00:25:34.599 --> 00:25:37.539 of view. I take that, by the way, as straight 00:25:37.539 --> 00:25:40.559 white Christian men. You got it. That's exactly 00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:45.200 conservative. Just imagine anyone saying, Oh, 00:25:45.500 --> 00:25:48.000 black men. I mean, you'd be run out of town, 00:25:48.099 --> 00:25:50.720 but no, that's okay. It's okay to say this. A 00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:53.720 certain persuasion, a certain religion, a certain 00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:56.880 point of view, a certain ideology is just doing 00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:01.240 such damage to what we should be aiming for. 00:26:01.259 --> 00:26:03.180 And we were on the path toward that. I mean, 00:26:03.380 --> 00:26:05.819 imperfectly, lots of, you know, bumps along the 00:26:05.819 --> 00:26:08.299 way. But I agree with you. We were on the right 00:26:08.299 --> 00:26:11.079 trajectory. And we know what the Clintons brought 00:26:11.079 --> 00:26:13.819 in. We do. I was thinking, let's define what 00:26:13.819 --> 00:26:17.099 that trajectory is. Well, the trajectory she's 00:26:17.099 --> 00:26:19.700 talking about is gay marriage, abortion, trans, 00:26:20.259 --> 00:26:22.680 et cetera, et cetera. That's what she and Bill 00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:26.440 Clinton always stood for. And a larger covering 00:26:26.440 --> 00:26:30.279 of that would be Marxism 101. Amen. Exactly. 00:26:30.660 --> 00:26:33.579 Exactly. There's your rule book for radicals. 00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:37.650 Exactly. It's right there. So we don't have to 00:26:37.650 --> 00:26:42.210 worry too much about Hillary Clinton, but I know 00:26:42.210 --> 00:26:47.009 that the left, I'll just call it the left, they 00:26:47.009 --> 00:26:50.690 listen to NPR religiously, and NPR spins them 00:26:50.690 --> 00:26:55.250 up to just an incredible degree. And one of my 00:26:55.250 --> 00:26:58.430 favorite podcasts, it's on the radio as well, 00:26:58.450 --> 00:27:01.049 to listen to is On the Media, where they discuss 00:27:01.049 --> 00:27:02.970 the media, but they really don't discuss the 00:27:02.970 --> 00:27:06.549 media, they just hate Trump. But in this case, 00:27:07.190 --> 00:27:11.029 they brought on a guy who is from, it's actually 00:27:11.029 --> 00:27:16.029 in the intro, he's a scholar, mind you, the Institute 00:27:16.029 --> 00:27:20.529 for Christian Jewish Islamic Studies, I believe, 00:27:20.609 --> 00:27:23.089 which is like, well, that's quite a lot of study 00:27:23.089 --> 00:27:26.029 you got to do. That's a span. And they discussed 00:27:26.029 --> 00:27:29.150 the Charlie Kirk Memorial and what they believe 00:27:29.150 --> 00:27:32.369 Christians are doing and believe. And I think 00:27:32.369 --> 00:27:35.470 they're saying it's dangerous. So I wanted to 00:27:35.470 --> 00:27:38.230 run through a couple of these clips. And if you're 00:27:38.230 --> 00:27:41.009 bored of it, let me know. Oh, no. Let's talk. 00:27:41.009 --> 00:27:44.049 Because even I have questions about what they're 00:27:44.049 --> 00:27:47.450 confidently saying is the truth. So they start 00:27:47.450 --> 00:27:50.829 off with an introduction of this guy, a little 00:27:50.829 --> 00:27:54.150 bit of background of Charlie Kirk, and then quickly 00:27:54.150 --> 00:27:58.670 they get into the seven mountains, which is something 00:27:58.670 --> 00:28:01.029 that, you know, We'll discuss it after you play 00:28:01.029 --> 00:28:04.150 the clip. Matthew D. Taylor is the senior Christian 00:28:04.150 --> 00:28:06.990 scholar at the Institute for Islamic Christian 00:28:06.990 --> 00:28:10.250 and Jewish Studies in Baltimore. He's been exploring 00:28:10.250 --> 00:28:14.349 the phenomenon that was and is Charlie Kirk and 00:28:14.349 --> 00:28:17.569 his movement. He says Christianity wasn't always 00:28:17.569 --> 00:28:21.170 a central part of Turning Point USA or of Charlie 00:28:21.170 --> 00:28:24.390 Kirk's public persona. If you had asked me circa 00:28:24.390 --> 00:28:27.609 2018, what are the most influential religious 00:28:27.609 --> 00:28:29.329 right or even Christian organizations in the 00:28:29.329 --> 00:28:31.490 country, Turning Point would not have been anywhere 00:28:31.490 --> 00:28:34.789 on that list. Today, it's probably number one. 00:28:35.650 --> 00:28:38.109 Do you believe that to be true? I thought Charlie 00:28:38.109 --> 00:28:40.750 really always came from a Christian believer 00:28:40.750 --> 00:28:42.829 background, and they're going to claim something 00:28:42.829 --> 00:28:45.410 else here. He did, but if you think about 2018, 00:28:45.569 --> 00:28:48.769 how old was Charlie Kirk? He was a child. He 00:28:48.769 --> 00:28:52.900 was a kid. So he was coming out with a different 00:28:52.900 --> 00:28:55.119 tone. I mean, he was like straight out of the 00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:58.299 Patriot Academy kind of thing, young, wet behind 00:28:58.299 --> 00:29:02.440 the ears, figuring it out. And so yeah, he's 00:29:02.440 --> 00:29:06.779 definitely morphed over the years more into, 00:29:07.220 --> 00:29:10.819 I'm an evangelist who happens to comment on political 00:29:10.819 --> 00:29:15.559 issues. We'll continue. So Christianity was not 00:29:15.559 --> 00:29:19.609 a prominent feature of Charlie Kirk's conservative 00:29:19.609 --> 00:29:22.930 advocacy organization Turning Point USA. But 00:29:22.930 --> 00:29:27.289 that did change in 2019, right? He met a California 00:29:27.289 --> 00:29:31.960 pastor named Robert McCoy. Yeah, Rob McCoy, who 00:29:31.960 --> 00:29:34.680 featured fairly prominently in the memorial service, 00:29:34.900 --> 00:29:37.859 is a pastor with an evangelical denomination 00:29:37.859 --> 00:29:41.299 called Calvary Chapel. And McCoy is a pastor 00:29:41.299 --> 00:29:44.099 of a church called Godspeak outside of Los Angeles, 00:29:44.180 --> 00:29:45.799 has been very involved in local politics, and 00:29:45.799 --> 00:29:49.240 he actually was the first church to invite Charlie 00:29:49.240 --> 00:29:53.059 Kirk to speak there. Godspeak exploded in popularity 00:29:53.059 --> 00:29:57.059 during the pandemic because he flouted the church 00:29:57.059 --> 00:30:01.109 closure rules. He also introduced Kirk to the 00:30:01.109 --> 00:30:04.650 Seven Mountains mandate, which we've spoken about 00:30:04.650 --> 00:30:07.990 before, but give us a refresher. So, before we 00:30:07.990 --> 00:30:11.910 get to the refresher, do you know Pastor Rob? 00:30:12.190 --> 00:30:16.509 I do. Yes. Wonderful. So, I mean, I wasn't even 00:30:16.509 --> 00:30:18.849 saved when all this went down. But so he was 00:30:18.849 --> 00:30:20.990 really one of the the forerunners of, hey, you 00:30:20.990 --> 00:30:23.369 can't shut us down. Yes. There was a handful. 00:30:23.589 --> 00:30:25.730 Jack Hibbs was another one. John MacArthur was 00:30:25.730 --> 00:30:29.390 another. There were several several Calvary Chapels. 00:30:29.470 --> 00:30:31.789 Now, John MacArthur was not Calvary Chapel, but 00:30:31.789 --> 00:30:35.670 he was he was a large, large, influential church, 00:30:35.829 --> 00:30:38.089 probably the most influential. So, yeah, they 00:30:38.089 --> 00:30:42.839 all they all said, we're not closing. Now, the 00:30:42.839 --> 00:30:45.099 Seven Mountains, a refresher. Before you say 00:30:45.099 --> 00:30:48.140 that, I've just got to call out the nuances here. 00:30:48.700 --> 00:30:53.259 Oh, you heard it. Oh, the seven mountains. Oh, 00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:59.059 the emphasis on the right, syllables. Wow. That's 00:30:59.059 --> 00:31:02.019 Brooke Gladstone. Makes $400 ,000 a year doing 00:31:02.019 --> 00:31:05.400 this show. Which she can make all she wants, 00:31:05.720 --> 00:31:09.509 but yeah, it's so... Not national public radio. 00:31:09.509 --> 00:31:12.210 It's so one -sided public rate But that's why 00:31:12.210 --> 00:31:14.049 I listen to it because I want to know what people 00:31:14.049 --> 00:31:16.750 are thinking. Yeah, here we go So the the seven 00:31:16.750 --> 00:31:19.569 mountain mandate is a concept that comes out 00:31:19.569 --> 00:31:23.130 of charismatic evangelical circles It's it's 00:31:23.130 --> 00:31:26.400 sometimes framed as a strategy for cultural conquest. 00:31:26.839 --> 00:31:29.700 It's also a prophecy that people believe was 00:31:29.700 --> 00:31:32.839 revealed by God to a prophet named Lance Wallnau. 00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:35.619 And the idea... I think Lance would love being 00:31:35.619 --> 00:31:37.440 called a prophet, don't you? I think he'd say, 00:31:37.940 --> 00:31:40.259 wow, thank you very much. I didn't know I was 00:31:40.259 --> 00:31:43.460 a prophet. It was revealed by God to a prophet 00:31:43.460 --> 00:31:47.059 named Lance Wallnau. And the idea is that every 00:31:47.059 --> 00:31:50.160 society can be divided up into seven arenas of 00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:53.650 cultural influence. education, family, religion, 00:31:53.890 --> 00:31:57.369 government, arts and entertainment, media, business, 00:31:57.509 --> 00:32:00.490 and commerce. Each of those sectors of society 00:32:00.490 --> 00:32:03.750 is imagined as a mountain. And in this prophecy, 00:32:03.990 --> 00:32:07.329 the top of those mountains is either controlled 00:32:07.329 --> 00:32:10.710 by Satan and the demons or by God and the Christians, 00:32:10.730 --> 00:32:13.049 and there's no in -between. And so the mandate 00:32:13.049 --> 00:32:16.269 part is for Christians to take over the seven 00:32:16.269 --> 00:32:18.910 mountains, to rise to positions of cultural influence, 00:32:19.309 --> 00:32:23.539 to try to target those specific areas of influence 00:32:23.539 --> 00:32:26.720 in society, and then to let Christian influence 00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:29.319 flow down from the tops of the mountain. They'll 00:32:29.319 --> 00:32:32.400 use democracy if it works for them, but the mandate, 00:32:32.500 --> 00:32:35.059 which they claim is from God, is for Christians 00:32:35.059 --> 00:32:38.819 to take over society. Hence this vision of merging 00:32:38.819 --> 00:32:42.180 religion and politics that resonated with Kirk. 00:32:43.039 --> 00:32:46.140 So while I don't think he's incorrect in his 00:32:46.140 --> 00:32:48.319 description, Right. Yeah, there's a lot I agree 00:32:48.319 --> 00:32:50.819 with. It drips with, they're going to take over 00:32:50.819 --> 00:32:53.940 no matter what, despite democracy, we're going 00:32:53.940 --> 00:32:56.759 to go for it. The nuances. Yeah, it's all in 00:32:56.759 --> 00:33:00.079 the nuances. Inflections. Because what he's saying 00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:02.920 in terms of content, I'm going, yeah, yeah, I'm 00:33:02.920 --> 00:33:05.819 in line with that. But the way he's saying, it's 00:33:05.819 --> 00:33:08.420 not what you say, it's how you say. So, give 00:33:08.420 --> 00:33:10.900 me the Pastor Jimmy version of the seven mountain 00:33:10.900 --> 00:33:13.930 mandate. Yeah, I mean the seven mounds education 00:33:13.930 --> 00:33:17.230 religion slash faith family business government 00:33:17.230 --> 00:33:19.930 Arts and entertainment media. So those are just 00:33:19.930 --> 00:33:23.390 all these are this is just a simple way to categorize 00:33:23.390 --> 00:33:27.569 culture. That's it Yeah, if if we have a cultural 00:33:27.569 --> 00:33:30.289 mandate what we call the apostolic mandate or 00:33:30.289 --> 00:33:33.650 the Great Commission is a cultural mandate and 00:33:33.650 --> 00:33:37.069 that is to go out and Disciple Jesus said make 00:33:37.069 --> 00:33:39.930 disciples of all nations not just one nation 00:33:39.930 --> 00:33:42.869 or not a handful of people all every nation. 00:33:43.250 --> 00:33:46.470 So as a Christian, I have a mandate, I have orders 00:33:46.470 --> 00:33:49.890 from my commanding officer to go and do this. 00:33:50.809 --> 00:33:53.589 But you have to categorize things. I mean, in 00:33:53.589 --> 00:33:56.630 order for us to even metric something, you have 00:33:56.630 --> 00:33:58.970 to say, this is that, you have to define it. 00:33:59.710 --> 00:34:01.910 So Lance Wallnau, there were others, Bill Johnson 00:34:01.910 --> 00:34:05.190 was another one out of California, Bethel Redding, 00:34:05.470 --> 00:34:09.019 and there were many others who landed on these 00:34:09.019 --> 00:34:11.500 seven categories and all they are categories 00:34:11.500 --> 00:34:14.219 and there's nothing actually real about them. 00:34:14.219 --> 00:34:17.940 They're just names to say this is a segment of 00:34:17.940 --> 00:34:20.320 society. That's a good point because they make 00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:24.880 it sound so cut and dry like here's these defined 00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:31.579 places. There's this conspiracy to go after these. 00:34:31.820 --> 00:34:34.619 That's exactly what they're trying to present. 00:34:35.159 --> 00:34:38.570 There's no secrets here. There are books on this 00:34:38.570 --> 00:34:43.030 saying, we've chosen these labels so that we 00:34:43.030 --> 00:34:45.789 know what we're shooting at. It's like as a hunter. 00:34:46.309 --> 00:34:49.269 When I was growing up, I hunted rabbits, squirrels, 00:34:49.769 --> 00:34:53.610 dove, quail, you name it, birds and stuff. You 00:34:53.610 --> 00:34:56.849 can't shoot a target that you can't see. You 00:34:56.849 --> 00:34:59.829 can't hit a target you can't see. So all this 00:34:59.829 --> 00:35:04.409 is is giving labels to categories so you understand 00:35:04.409 --> 00:35:07.139 these are the seven mountains of culture. Another 00:35:07.139 --> 00:35:09.659 way to say it is these are the seven categories 00:35:09.659 --> 00:35:13.340 of culture. It's not that complicated. Do you 00:35:13.340 --> 00:35:16.139 Agree with the or what's your that's not a fair 00:35:16.139 --> 00:35:19.320 question. What what's your feeling on? It's either 00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:22.780 run by God or by the devil well Because that's 00:35:22.780 --> 00:35:24.679 pretty black and white the way they the way they 00:35:24.679 --> 00:35:29.480 put that Okay, so you've got levels here, I mean 00:35:29.480 --> 00:35:34.489 in the most simplistic terms you've got God, 00:35:34.610 --> 00:35:36.670 and you do have the devil. The thing about it 00:35:36.670 --> 00:35:40.070 is they're not equal foes. You've got gods over 00:35:40.070 --> 00:35:41.769 everything. You've got the devil who's just trying 00:35:41.769 --> 00:35:44.590 to hang on until he gets cast into the lake of 00:35:44.590 --> 00:35:48.909 fire. So he's sort of struggling. So if you take 00:35:48.909 --> 00:35:52.130 C .S. Lewis's approach, he wrote this amazing 00:35:52.130 --> 00:35:54.650 book called The Screwtape Letters, where it was 00:35:54.650 --> 00:35:57.969 just getting into the mind of the dark enemy, 00:35:58.389 --> 00:36:03.280 Satan. and say, basically, the old thing that 00:36:03.280 --> 00:36:05.599 Paul Harvey did, if I were the devil, remember 00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:09.579 that? It's classic. That'd be a great clip to 00:36:09.579 --> 00:36:12.300 play. But yeah, I mean, if I were the devil, 00:36:12.460 --> 00:36:14.300 boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. So this is similar. 00:36:15.900 --> 00:36:18.800 So yes, at one level, you do have God and you 00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:21.539 do have the devil. But at the end of the day, 00:36:22.460 --> 00:36:26.429 Jesus gave us authority as believers. We have 00:36:26.429 --> 00:36:30.110 an apostolic or a dominion mandate in Genesis 00:36:30.110 --> 00:36:33.429 chapter 1 that we're to govern the earth. We're 00:36:33.429 --> 00:36:36.349 told that. This is what we're supposed to do. 00:36:36.730 --> 00:36:40.989 I created this earth. I created it for you. now 00:36:40.989 --> 00:36:43.889 go govern it. Now, if you use that language, 00:36:43.889 --> 00:36:46.550 it may mean something different to somebody in 00:36:46.550 --> 00:36:50.510 2025 than it did in the Garden of Eden. Can you 00:36:50.510 --> 00:36:53.150 see how it scares people when they hear this? 00:36:53.409 --> 00:36:55.590 Oh, well, they think about, oh, they're trying 00:36:55.590 --> 00:37:00.070 to create a theocracy. And that's not the case. 00:37:00.590 --> 00:37:04.949 I can see how someone who doesn't have any context 00:37:04.949 --> 00:37:08.570 would see that. But actually, it's not about 00:37:08.570 --> 00:37:11.659 creating a theocracy. That's what Augustine did. 00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:15.059 That's what Constantine did. Not Augustine, Constantine 00:37:15.059 --> 00:37:17.739 did. And we saw where that led. That did not 00:37:17.739 --> 00:37:20.940 end well, nor is it continued to go well. So 00:37:20.940 --> 00:37:23.059 that's not what we're talking about because we're 00:37:23.059 --> 00:37:26.599 talking about in America, freedom of faith, freedom 00:37:26.599 --> 00:37:29.480 of religion, whatever your religion is, as long 00:37:29.480 --> 00:37:32.739 as you don't kill each other and you're not a 00:37:32.739 --> 00:37:36.139 danger to yourself and others. We want and welcome 00:37:36.139 --> 00:37:40.300 people of other faiths. But we also understand 00:37:40.300 --> 00:37:43.000 there was a dominant religion, a dominant faith, 00:37:43.159 --> 00:37:46.820 and that is Christianity. And so while Hillary 00:37:46.820 --> 00:37:49.320 thinks we can't return to these silly ideals 00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:53.480 that never were, that was a real nice caveat 00:37:53.480 --> 00:38:00.179 she added on that. The next part, which is about 00:38:00.179 --> 00:38:03.420 Charlie Kirk as a martyr and martyrdom in general, 00:38:03.719 --> 00:38:05.519 and things do take a turn here, of course. The 00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:08.659 rhetorical frames around martyrdom, they're not 00:38:08.659 --> 00:38:11.420 just limited to inspiring a lot of conversions. 00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:16.860 They can also spur some real violence. Yeah, 00:38:16.860 --> 00:38:20.059 and this is the dual nature of a martyr narrative, 00:38:20.380 --> 00:38:23.039 right? On the one hand, people like Stephen are 00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:26.210 seen as models in that they do not provoke, they 00:38:26.210 --> 00:38:29.550 do not fight back, but instead they accept the 00:38:29.550 --> 00:38:31.869 persecution, right? And Jesus had taught his 00:38:31.869 --> 00:38:34.289 followers to bless the persecutors, to love their 00:38:34.289 --> 00:38:36.510 enemies. So that's the one track. And I think 00:38:36.510 --> 00:38:40.650 we saw that in Erica Kirk's declaration of forgiveness. 00:38:41.369 --> 00:38:46.289 My husband, Charlie, he wanted to save young 00:38:46.289 --> 00:38:52.070 men, just like the one who took his life. That 00:38:52.070 --> 00:39:01.230 man. I forgive him. I mean, I don't know a Christian 00:39:01.230 --> 00:39:03.090 who was steeped in the teachings of Jesus who 00:39:03.090 --> 00:39:05.449 would say that was the wrong choice, right? Jesus 00:39:05.449 --> 00:39:08.449 taught us to forgive. Now, I think Stephen Miller 00:39:08.449 --> 00:39:11.789 and Donald Trump and the memorial service really 00:39:11.789 --> 00:39:15.690 embodied the other side of the martyr narrative. 00:39:16.150 --> 00:39:19.869 I hate my opponent. And I don't want the best 00:39:19.869 --> 00:39:24.139 for them. I'm sorry. I am sorry, Erica. But now 00:39:24.139 --> 00:39:26.300 Erica can talk to me and the whole group, and 00:39:26.300 --> 00:39:28.420 maybe they can convince me that that's not right, 00:39:28.440 --> 00:39:31.539 but I can't stand my opponent. See, I wanted 00:39:31.539 --> 00:39:34.800 to believe that in there because President Trump 00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:38.920 leaves something open. We have to believe that 00:39:38.920 --> 00:39:42.940 he is a new believer. He has certainly said that 00:39:42.940 --> 00:39:45.300 he believes God saves him so he can save America. 00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:48.960 And that could very well be true. And he says, 00:39:49.210 --> 00:39:52.070 I'm not like Erica. I hate my opponent. He doesn't 00:39:52.070 --> 00:39:54.389 say opponents. But then after that, he says, 00:39:54.769 --> 00:39:56.969 Erica and the group can certainly come and try 00:39:56.969 --> 00:40:00.630 to convince me otherwise. I really, that made 00:40:00.630 --> 00:40:03.809 me hopeful. Because even I forgot what he had 00:40:03.809 --> 00:40:05.530 said. I thought he had said the enemy, but it 00:40:05.530 --> 00:40:09.449 was the opponent. And that last bit, I think 00:40:09.449 --> 00:40:11.829 that's really quite extraordinary. Let me just 00:40:11.829 --> 00:40:14.670 play that again. And I don't want the best for 00:40:14.670 --> 00:40:26.400 them. I'm sorry. I am sorry, Erica. There's room 00:40:26.400 --> 00:40:28.539 there. There's room there. What's your feeling 00:40:28.539 --> 00:40:30.920 on that in general? Well, when I saw it roll 00:40:30.920 --> 00:40:33.050 out, you know, my first thought was... Please 00:40:33.050 --> 00:40:36.769 go back to the teleprompter. Get back on script. 00:40:37.230 --> 00:40:39.969 Come on. Cause I mean, we've watched Donald Trump 00:40:39.969 --> 00:40:42.170 since, you know, since the early days. His first 00:40:42.170 --> 00:40:44.250 go around, every time he'd go off script, it'd 00:40:44.250 --> 00:40:46.190 be like, kind of like Biden going off script. 00:40:46.550 --> 00:40:50.829 Yeah, that was awesome fun. So, but also if you 00:40:50.829 --> 00:40:53.170 watch the video, it's so different hearing it 00:40:53.170 --> 00:40:55.940 with no context. when you've watched the whole 00:40:55.940 --> 00:40:59.300 service roll out. And he said it in a very tongue 00:40:59.300 --> 00:41:01.559 in cheek way. He was grinning. He was kind of 00:41:01.559 --> 00:41:05.780 laughing. He was just making, he was being Donald 00:41:05.780 --> 00:41:10.019 Trump, being an old New York curmudgeon. I mean, 00:41:10.019 --> 00:41:13.760 so when I hear it, it doesn't sound offense. 00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:15.840 I wish he hadn't said it, of course, because 00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:18.719 my first thought was there's ammo for people 00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:21.579 who hate him. Because I like him. I want to protect 00:41:21.579 --> 00:41:25.010 him, right? I don't just see him as the president 00:41:25.010 --> 00:41:26.889 of the United States. I see him as a new brother 00:41:26.889 --> 00:41:31.809 in Christ and I want to help him. I'm for him. 00:41:32.309 --> 00:41:35.690 Forget policy. Forget all this stuff. One of 00:41:35.690 --> 00:41:37.190 the things that we're commanded in scripture 00:41:37.190 --> 00:41:39.889 to do is pray for those who are in leadership. 00:41:39.929 --> 00:41:42.230 That's coming up. I've prayed for Joe Biden. 00:41:42.369 --> 00:41:44.829 I've prayed for Hillary. After that clip, I'm 00:41:44.829 --> 00:41:47.369 really going to pray for Hillary. She needs lots 00:41:47.369 --> 00:41:49.610 of prayer. I've prayed for all of them by name. 00:41:50.550 --> 00:41:54.829 It's truly. So I'm for Trump, but boy, to hear 00:41:54.829 --> 00:41:59.690 him do that. But I saw that I was watching, were 00:41:59.690 --> 00:42:02.070 we four or five hours in at this point? Because 00:42:02.070 --> 00:42:04.489 this was at the end. So it was probably five 00:42:04.489 --> 00:42:08.829 hours in. And in the context, in the tongue and 00:42:08.829 --> 00:42:11.510 cheek way he said it, because he was grinning, 00:42:11.510 --> 00:42:14.090 he was laughing, he said it like, but he said 00:42:14.090 --> 00:42:17.510 it like old Trump just popping off, he would 00:42:17.510 --> 00:42:20.809 say. But of course, everybody camps out on it. 00:42:20.969 --> 00:42:23.570 And they just go there. They go for the jugular, 00:42:23.730 --> 00:42:26.309 so to speak. Well, and again, I just felt that 00:42:26.309 --> 00:42:29.289 last bit is like, hey, I'm open. I'm open. Convince 00:42:29.289 --> 00:42:31.530 me. Because who's the group? Eric, it's not Turning 00:42:31.530 --> 00:42:34.050 Point USA. It's the office of faith. It's all 00:42:34.050 --> 00:42:36.469 the people surrounding him. So I pray that that 00:42:36.469 --> 00:42:40.170 takes place. Me too, brother. And now we get 00:42:40.170 --> 00:42:43.519 into... historical stuff, which is just like, 00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:47.780 what are you doing, NPR? When Pope Urban II proclaims 00:42:47.780 --> 00:42:50.460 the First Crusade in 1095 CE... So now they're 00:42:50.460 --> 00:42:55.260 still on martyrdom and violence. This is the 00:42:55.260 --> 00:42:58.440 big one. When Pope Urban II proclaims the First 00:42:58.440 --> 00:43:02.719 Crusade in 1095 CE, his rationale for why Christians 00:43:02.719 --> 00:43:05.519 need to go and slaughter Muslims and also Jews 00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:08.079 was that they have devastated the Kingdom of 00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:10.469 God. They are killing... our brothers and sisters, 00:43:10.690 --> 00:43:12.690 our fellow Christians in the East, and we need 00:43:12.690 --> 00:43:15.690 to go and rescue those Christians. But then again, 00:43:15.710 --> 00:43:18.030 we also need to take back the Holy Land. We need 00:43:18.030 --> 00:43:19.489 to take back Jerusalem, because it's the city 00:43:19.489 --> 00:43:21.909 of Jesus, right? And then there's the story of 00:43:21.909 --> 00:43:24.829 Simon of Trent. And yeah, Simon of Trent was 00:43:24.829 --> 00:43:27.210 a young man who disappeared in the medieval period, 00:43:27.510 --> 00:43:30.030 and the Christians blamed the Jews. I know this 00:43:30.030 --> 00:43:32.389 is crazy stuff, but they put it in there, and 00:43:32.389 --> 00:43:35.170 I presume they had a reason for it, because I 00:43:35.170 --> 00:43:38.369 think the only reason is, hey, Be careful, Christians 00:43:38.369 --> 00:43:40.869 can be violent. That's what I'm hearing. They're 00:43:40.869 --> 00:43:43.269 building it. The young man who disappeared in 00:43:43.269 --> 00:43:45.750 the medieval period, and the Christians blamed 00:43:45.750 --> 00:43:48.349 the Jews, and this was part of the blood libel 00:43:48.349 --> 00:43:52.349 idea of Jewish communities secretively drinking 00:43:52.349 --> 00:43:55.050 the blood of Christian children as part of their 00:43:55.050 --> 00:43:59.420 ritual ceremonies. And so the disappearance of 00:43:59.420 --> 00:44:02.599 Simon of Trent leads to pogroms and attacks and 00:44:02.599 --> 00:44:05.860 becomes part of the conspiracy theory narratives 00:44:05.860 --> 00:44:08.699 and the vilification of Jews by Christians, right? 00:44:08.719 --> 00:44:12.440 Because a martyr is both a member of the community 00:44:12.440 --> 00:44:14.619 who is treasured and valued, but a martyr is 00:44:14.619 --> 00:44:18.260 also a symbol that can be wielded for great violence. 00:44:18.780 --> 00:44:21.420 It is one of the most potent forces in the Christian 00:44:21.420 --> 00:44:25.880 tradition. This is not merely another celebration 00:44:25.880 --> 00:44:29.179 of life. that we witnessed in the memorial or 00:44:29.179 --> 00:44:32.659 in the collective grieving over Charlie Kirk's 00:44:32.659 --> 00:44:37.519 death. This is a step change in the role of the 00:44:37.519 --> 00:44:40.539 religious right in American society and not just 00:44:40.539 --> 00:44:42.639 in the United States, but around the globe. I 00:44:42.639 --> 00:44:46.159 believe this is the devil conjuring up stuff. 00:44:46.519 --> 00:44:50.380 Absolutely. And specifically, anti -Semitism, 00:44:50.920 --> 00:44:54.079 the Jews, the Jews, Israel killed Charlie, etc., 00:44:54.079 --> 00:44:57.679 etc. They're conjuring this. This to me was pure 00:44:57.679 --> 00:45:00.260 enemy that got into this so -called scholar. 00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:02.480 I don't know what you want to comment on. Well, 00:45:02.480 --> 00:45:05.159 as I'm listening to that, I'm thinking, why did 00:45:05.159 --> 00:45:08.079 they make this jump to violence? Where is the 00:45:08.079 --> 00:45:10.400 violence coming from right now? From the left. 00:45:10.679 --> 00:45:13.380 And you look at where, I mean, you look at all 00:45:13.380 --> 00:45:15.800 the Charlie Kirk memorials that have been desecrated, 00:45:15.860 --> 00:45:19.460 who were they desecrated by? The left. over and 00:45:19.460 --> 00:45:21.719 over and over. Who rode through on a bike yelling 00:45:21.719 --> 00:45:26.960 F -U? I mean, who is creating chaos and havoc? 00:45:27.079 --> 00:45:30.000 It's not the religious right. This is Jacuz. 00:45:30.679 --> 00:45:34.139 You are what you say I am. This is very typical. 00:45:34.860 --> 00:45:40.320 But it's dangerous speak. It is. I mean, there 00:45:40.320 --> 00:45:44.519 was no reason to do this, and yet they're doing 00:45:44.519 --> 00:45:48.739 it. And it just concerns me that, you know, this 00:45:48.739 --> 00:45:51.340 is out there because now, and it affects everybody. 00:45:51.760 --> 00:45:54.280 Anybody who hears this, you know, oh yeah, it's 00:45:54.280 --> 00:45:56.900 the religious right. And already now, it's the 00:45:56.900 --> 00:46:00.800 religious right, the religious far right. Which 00:46:00.800 --> 00:46:04.079 sounds very extremist. Well, the extremist part 00:46:04.079 --> 00:46:07.980 comes next. Oh, okay. Benny Johnson goes on to 00:46:07.980 --> 00:46:12.000 say that God establishes the rulers of nations. 00:46:12.460 --> 00:46:15.159 In the audience right now, there are rulers of 00:46:15.159 --> 00:46:19.219 our land. This is the part where I know non -believers 00:46:19.219 --> 00:46:23.280 lose it. And it's understandable that if you 00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:25.880 don't believe that God is in control of everything, 00:46:27.079 --> 00:46:30.059 then I mean, if you haven't just submitted to 00:46:30.059 --> 00:46:34.539 that, then you won't get it. And it sounds kooky. 00:46:35.099 --> 00:46:38.260 I can say this as a relatively new believer. 00:46:38.360 --> 00:46:40.760 I know how people think about this. Flip the 00:46:40.760 --> 00:46:43.559 script. We've been subjected to the last four 00:46:43.559 --> 00:46:46.719 years of pure kookiness from the other side, 00:46:46.880 --> 00:46:49.440 and yet we're supposed to sit there and drink 00:46:49.440 --> 00:46:53.380 their poison and be okay with it. But now when 00:46:53.380 --> 00:46:56.599 the pendulum swings and the momentum's the other 00:46:56.599 --> 00:46:59.440 way, and we're making declarations just like 00:46:59.440 --> 00:47:02.360 they did, and they continue to, but just like 00:47:02.360 --> 00:47:05.869 they did, suddenly... We're extremists. We're 00:47:05.869 --> 00:47:08.590 violent. We're prone to violence now. That's 00:47:08.590 --> 00:47:10.070 what they're saying. And what's interesting, 00:47:10.230 --> 00:47:12.829 did you ever see the juxtaposition of the BLM 00:47:12.829 --> 00:47:15.989 riots and the Antifa riots juxtaposed to the 00:47:15.989 --> 00:47:18.650 memorial of Charlie Kirk saying, this is how 00:47:18.650 --> 00:47:21.650 we respond. This is how they respond. I mean, 00:47:22.110 --> 00:47:25.010 you could go down the line on a lot of those. 00:47:25.170 --> 00:47:28.150 Now, are there going to be occasional guys who 00:47:28.150 --> 00:47:31.570 are Now, mind you, I believe if there was ever 00:47:31.570 --> 00:47:35.289 a conspiracy in Adam's mind, what we saw recently 00:47:35.289 --> 00:47:40.349 with these shootings, the church in the Latter 00:47:40.349 --> 00:47:42.809 -day Saints Church. I mean, I'm just going to 00:47:42.809 --> 00:47:45.710 say that it's very easy to make people crazy 00:47:45.710 --> 00:47:48.190 these days. There's enough pharmaceuticals in 00:47:48.190 --> 00:47:50.590 people's systems. There's all kinds of platforms 00:47:50.590 --> 00:47:54.610 that people get on. This is not an unthinkable 00:47:54.610 --> 00:47:57.829 thing to get people to do the weirdest possible 00:47:57.829 --> 00:48:01.889 stuff. veterans are always perceptible to PTSD. 00:48:02.309 --> 00:48:04.570 I mean, it's all very... Heartbreaking is the 00:48:04.570 --> 00:48:06.929 term. We'll continue with what they think is 00:48:06.929 --> 00:48:09.550 crazy. The State Department, the Department of 00:48:09.550 --> 00:48:13.349 War, the Department of Justice, the Chief Executive, 00:48:13.929 --> 00:48:19.230 God has instituted them. And what does the Apostle 00:48:19.230 --> 00:48:22.489 Paul in Romans say about a godly leadership? 00:48:23.690 --> 00:48:27.909 Rulers wield the sword. for the protection of 00:48:27.909 --> 00:48:35.630 good men and for the terror of evil men. May 00:48:35.630 --> 00:48:40.190 we pray that our rulers here, rightfully instituted 00:48:40.190 --> 00:48:44.389 and given power by our God, wield the sword for 00:48:44.389 --> 00:48:47.889 the terror of evil men in our nation. Well, I 00:48:47.889 --> 00:48:50.329 mean, I don't think anybody summarized the dual 00:48:50.329 --> 00:48:52.650 martyr narratives better than Benny Johnson in 00:48:52.650 --> 00:48:55.730 that service, right? That on the one hand, Charlie 00:48:55.730 --> 00:48:59.690 Kirk could be an innocent Stephen, but then, 00:48:59.809 --> 00:49:04.050 right, the turn is now the godly government needs 00:49:04.050 --> 00:49:06.829 to go after our enemies. And this takes me to 00:49:06.829 --> 00:49:09.530 something that the Christian nationalism scholar 00:49:09.530 --> 00:49:12.989 Bradley Onishi mentioned in his recap of Kirk's 00:49:12.989 --> 00:49:16.630 memorial. He said that some MAGA factions subscribe 00:49:16.630 --> 00:49:22.449 to a two kingdoms theology. So, wow. So of course, 00:49:22.699 --> 00:49:25.860 We knew Benny Johnson and I think Jack Brasovic 00:49:25.860 --> 00:49:28.659 and even Stephen Miller that this was going to 00:49:28.659 --> 00:49:37.260 cause misunderstandings. I love doing this podcast 00:49:37.260 --> 00:49:39.800 with you because I pray that people who are not 00:49:39.800 --> 00:49:42.760 believers listen to it, who may have a different 00:49:42.760 --> 00:49:45.670 view of things that they can just hear. how we 00:49:45.670 --> 00:49:48.389 view this and not how it's presented because 00:49:48.389 --> 00:49:51.969 yeah, that can sound crazy and kooky and dangerous 00:49:51.969 --> 00:49:54.230 if you don't know where it's coming from. And 00:49:54.230 --> 00:49:56.730 also the presentation, you know, it's like, yeah, 00:49:56.929 --> 00:49:59.030 you got to have that crowd of what, how many 00:49:59.030 --> 00:50:02.110 thousand eight, 70, 80 ,000. You're a little 00:50:02.110 --> 00:50:04.150 fired up. You got a little adrenaline flowing 00:50:04.150 --> 00:50:08.460 into that. Yeah, you get into that. So how about 00:50:08.460 --> 00:50:10.800 that? So now the two kingdom, have you heard 00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:13.059 of two kingdom theology? I want to hear what 00:50:13.059 --> 00:50:15.599 they're saying because I'm curious about that. 00:50:15.820 --> 00:50:18.179 Buckle up. They believe there's a kingdom of 00:50:18.179 --> 00:50:21.059 God. And in that kingdom of God, you are going 00:50:21.059 --> 00:50:25.400 to see God who operates according to peace and 00:50:25.400 --> 00:50:28.679 justice and love. But there's also the civil 00:50:28.679 --> 00:50:30.679 kingdom. When it comes to the political realm, 00:50:30.719 --> 00:50:34.599 the civic realm, it's really about a friend, 00:50:34.599 --> 00:50:37.789 enemy distinction. It's either you or them. It's 00:50:37.789 --> 00:50:39.949 either dominate or be dominated. And when it 00:50:39.949 --> 00:50:44.269 comes to the two kingdoms theology, we want a 00:50:44.269 --> 00:50:47.150 woman who forgives the man that murder her husband. 00:50:47.510 --> 00:50:50.269 And we want a president who's going to hate him 00:50:50.269 --> 00:50:52.730 enough to execute him. Let's just stop it right 00:50:52.730 --> 00:50:55.630 there. Wow, man. He just, this is, this is a 00:50:55.630 --> 00:50:57.989 scholar. He just ran down the hill on that. You 00:50:57.989 --> 00:51:00.469 know, it's one thing to take a few steps, but 00:51:00.469 --> 00:51:02.400 if you ever start running downhill, Have you 00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:04.260 ever done that as a kid? Yeah, and then it ended 00:51:04.260 --> 00:51:06.639 badly, didn't it? It does. You end at the bottom, 00:51:06.800 --> 00:51:09.340 bruised and broken. Exactly. Covered in dirt. 00:51:09.900 --> 00:51:12.179 So I feel like that's what he did, you know. 00:51:12.320 --> 00:51:16.039 And this is what happens about commentary that's 00:51:16.039 --> 00:51:18.119 going to be negative or you've got an agenda 00:51:18.119 --> 00:51:20.119 with your commentary. Clearly. You're going to 00:51:20.119 --> 00:51:23.019 take a few steps. You get some momentum and then 00:51:23.019 --> 00:51:25.340 you can't stop. And that's what I'm hearing here. 00:51:25.820 --> 00:51:28.500 Openly that hate is a way to love God. When we 00:51:28.500 --> 00:51:32.909 see a political coalition, built around antipathy, 00:51:33.329 --> 00:51:35.949 aggressive politics, castigating people who disagree 00:51:35.949 --> 00:51:38.949 with them, fighting with their enemies. When 00:51:38.949 --> 00:51:43.650 that names itself as Christian and also embraces 00:51:43.650 --> 00:51:47.329 some of the rhetorical styles and vocabulary 00:51:47.329 --> 00:51:51.570 of Christianity, it becomes very hard to disentangle 00:51:51.570 --> 00:51:54.929 those things. And I think Trump has played this 00:51:54.929 --> 00:51:58.949 dual role for American Christians over the last 00:51:59.130 --> 00:52:02.309 10 years. Isn't he just playing on the second 00:52:02.309 --> 00:52:07.250 string? No, Donald Trump will sometimes mouth 00:52:07.250 --> 00:52:09.989 the pieties, especially since the assassination 00:52:09.989 --> 00:52:13.489 attempt in Butler, Pennsylvania. God saved me 00:52:13.489 --> 00:52:17.389 so that I could save America. Right. That's a 00:52:17.389 --> 00:52:18.829 message that a lot of American Christians want 00:52:18.829 --> 00:52:22.349 to hear. But that's also not about Jesus. Right. 00:52:22.449 --> 00:52:25.489 And so Trump can present himself as a Christian. 00:52:26.039 --> 00:52:30.460 but he does not always conform to Christian morality. 00:52:31.820 --> 00:52:34.320 And the Christians give him a pass because they 00:52:34.320 --> 00:52:36.179 want to say, well, he's the one God has put in 00:52:36.179 --> 00:52:39.340 office. He is there to punish our enemies. So 00:52:39.340 --> 00:52:42.239 we can say that we love our enemies and celebrate 00:52:42.239 --> 00:52:44.880 their demise at Donald Trump's hands. Now, I 00:52:44.880 --> 00:52:47.260 thought this was important because I know many 00:52:47.260 --> 00:52:50.619 believers, many Christians who are very wary 00:52:50.619 --> 00:52:52.739 of President Trump say, well, he hasn't declared, 00:52:52.900 --> 00:52:55.860 he doesn't... declared Jesus. And so he's not 00:52:55.860 --> 00:53:00.179 real. He's an op. He's not the real deal. And 00:53:00.179 --> 00:53:03.440 I'm like, wow, this is hurting us, hurting all 00:53:03.440 --> 00:53:06.860 sides, this particular view of President Trump. 00:53:07.079 --> 00:53:10.880 Yeah, agreed. Again, this running downhill thing. 00:53:11.099 --> 00:53:14.400 I'm hearing this, like, this gathering of men, 00:53:14.579 --> 00:53:18.440 but then making these leaps. And this is sequential 00:53:18.440 --> 00:53:21.260 in the broadcast. I mean, I took out some non 00:53:21.260 --> 00:53:23.079 -seculars, but this is exactly how it went. It's 00:53:23.079 --> 00:53:25.500 fascinating because they start off with almost 00:53:25.500 --> 00:53:28.380 something that we could go, yeah, I can kind 00:53:28.380 --> 00:53:31.519 of see that. But then they make this leap, you 00:53:31.519 --> 00:53:34.139 know, 80 feet down the hill instead of another 00:53:34.139 --> 00:53:36.639 foot. And it's like, so I'm hearing that. But 00:53:36.639 --> 00:53:39.860 again, if you have an agenda, of course you're 00:53:39.860 --> 00:53:43.360 going to fabricate a narrative to support what 00:53:43.360 --> 00:53:45.780 you want to believe or what you already believe. 00:53:46.190 --> 00:53:50.849 I was listening to Josh McPherson talk to Mark 00:53:50.849 --> 00:53:54.190 Driscoll on Charlie Kirk's podcast yesterday. 00:53:54.750 --> 00:53:56.070 I just heard this clip. I didn't listen to the 00:53:56.070 --> 00:53:57.929 whole thing yet, but I just heard this clip. 00:53:58.090 --> 00:54:00.989 I like Josh McPherson. Pastor's a big church. 00:54:01.090 --> 00:54:03.730 He's young, and they're going back and forth. 00:54:03.989 --> 00:54:09.309 Josh was reading a book that talked about some... 00:54:09.309 --> 00:54:11.409 This will come back into what we're talking about, 00:54:11.429 --> 00:54:14.679 so I want you to hear me out for a sec. So from 00:54:14.679 --> 00:54:21.239 basically the 50s, 60s into the 90s, the early 00:54:21.239 --> 00:54:26.980 90s, there was a season in American history and 00:54:26.980 --> 00:54:30.639 politics and popular culture where it was okay 00:54:30.639 --> 00:54:32.440 to talk about your faith. In fact, you couldn't 00:54:32.440 --> 00:54:34.159 get elected if you didn't declare your faith. 00:54:34.179 --> 00:54:37.869 Right. And celebrities would often get up at 00:54:37.869 --> 00:54:41.309 the Grammy, thank God for this. God gave me the 00:54:41.309 --> 00:54:43.809 song. Yeah, exactly. I mean, this was popular. 00:54:44.130 --> 00:54:47.329 And so it was very trendy and popular and okay 00:54:47.329 --> 00:54:50.190 to declare your faith. And then you had a period 00:54:50.190 --> 00:54:55.909 through the late 90s, roughly 94 on, and there 00:54:55.909 --> 00:54:58.710 were some things that precipitated that, where 00:54:58.710 --> 00:55:01.980 faith became neutral. Became the Netherlands, 00:55:02.199 --> 00:55:04.519 you know, is this we're not gonna know Switzerland 00:55:04.519 --> 00:55:06.719 Switzerland. Thank you. My bad Thank you for 00:55:06.719 --> 00:55:08.659 the correction somebody who lived there and grew 00:55:08.659 --> 00:55:11.659 up. So Switzerland, you know, we're not gonna 00:55:11.659 --> 00:55:14.000 you know We're not gonna go either way and it 00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:16.440 was still okay to talk about it But it was okay 00:55:16.440 --> 00:55:19.320 not to talk about it and those in politics didn't 00:55:19.320 --> 00:55:22.199 have to declare I mean it just there was a shift 00:55:22.199 --> 00:55:29.699 of ambivalence so then you move into up to 2014 00:55:30.440 --> 00:55:34.519 And we see another shift. This shift now goes 00:55:34.519 --> 00:55:38.860 to, don't you, no, not 2014, up till recently. 00:55:40.179 --> 00:55:43.800 You don't talk about your faith. In fact, now 00:55:43.800 --> 00:55:48.059 we are the enemy. It's scary. It's scary for 00:55:48.059 --> 00:55:50.840 people. It's become a scary thing to talk about 00:55:50.840 --> 00:55:53.199 your faith. If you're an actor, celebrity, you're 00:55:53.199 --> 00:55:56.300 in the Hollywood, you know, the circle, you know, 00:55:56.340 --> 00:55:58.860 don't you dare talk about your faith. But not 00:55:58.860 --> 00:56:02.780 even that. Pastor Jimmy, when I came out on Joe 00:56:02.780 --> 00:56:05.800 Rogan and as I continued to profess my faith 00:56:05.800 --> 00:56:09.480 in my regular conversation, more and more people 00:56:09.480 --> 00:56:12.300 who I've known, not personally, but personally 00:56:12.300 --> 00:56:15.920 through email and feedback on my podcast, now 00:56:15.920 --> 00:56:18.840 they're coming out and they're saying, hey, I 00:56:18.840 --> 00:56:20.719 feel more comfortable. So it's not just celebrities, 00:56:20.960 --> 00:56:24.380 it's normal everyday people and people who I've 00:56:24.380 --> 00:56:27.280 known for seven years. Hey, by the way, brother, 00:56:27.559 --> 00:56:29.400 just if you have any questions about Latter -day 00:56:29.400 --> 00:56:31.099 Saints, I've been a card carrying member all 00:56:31.099 --> 00:56:33.179 my life. Didn't even know the guy was a believer 00:56:33.179 --> 00:56:36.059 at all. Right. You know, this is, this is amazing 00:56:36.059 --> 00:56:38.300 things that are happening. So it's not just Hollywood. 00:56:38.500 --> 00:56:40.820 Of course, Hollywood drives it and, you know, 00:56:41.300 --> 00:56:44.280 media. That's just one mountain I was talking 00:56:44.280 --> 00:56:47.260 about. But you can go down in politics, you can 00:56:47.260 --> 00:56:51.820 go anything. So now we have this, this, you know, 00:56:52.119 --> 00:56:55.079 Trump gets reelected. in his inaugural speech 00:56:55.079 --> 00:56:57.340 and you captured that clip beautifully and you 00:56:57.340 --> 00:56:59.099 played on the Godcaster. We will not forget our 00:56:59.099 --> 00:57:01.079 country, we will not forget our constitution, 00:57:01.099 --> 00:57:03.619 and we will not forget our God. And you added 00:57:03.619 --> 00:57:06.219 a nice echo to that little reverb. That's actually, 00:57:06.360 --> 00:57:09.440 that's how it was recorded. No way! That was 00:57:09.440 --> 00:57:11.780 on there? That was literally the way it was. 00:57:12.139 --> 00:57:14.000 That's the way I have it recorded, yeah. That's 00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:17.260 a bit cooler. I mean, that's awesome. So he green 00:57:17.260 --> 00:57:21.340 -lighted faith. Yes, yes. But now, you know, 00:57:21.340 --> 00:57:23.789 but it's been a war. I mean, it's People are 00:57:23.789 --> 00:57:26.469 coming out. But what's happening is we're getting 00:57:26.469 --> 00:57:28.650 this division. We're getting a chasm between 00:57:28.650 --> 00:57:31.190 the two worlds. This is really interesting because 00:57:31.190 --> 00:57:35.769 you say 1994. When was Bill Clinton president? 00:57:36.210 --> 00:57:41.530 I don't remember. 92 to 2000. Wow, that's making 00:57:41.530 --> 00:57:45.539 sense. And Bill Clinton, the president... I mean, 00:57:45.699 --> 00:57:48.480 we know what he stood for. Right. He made certain 00:57:48.480 --> 00:57:52.159 sexual acts not sex anymore. Exactly. Also, 1994 00:57:52.159 --> 00:57:55.539 is just when the internet started to blast through 00:57:55.539 --> 00:57:58.599 to homes everywhere, dial -up, we could get on 00:57:58.599 --> 00:58:01.860 the internet. These two things happen concurrently. 00:58:02.199 --> 00:58:05.380 Interesting. You got 9 -1 -1, 2001. That's right. 00:58:05.500 --> 00:58:08.360 You've got George W., who was just elected, and 00:58:08.360 --> 00:58:11.420 then he's coming out claiming to be a card -carrying 00:58:11.420 --> 00:58:15.050 Christian. Looking back on things, I'm beginning 00:58:15.050 --> 00:58:20.250 to think otherwise. So you have these shifts 00:58:20.250 --> 00:58:23.150 that happened. There are these seasons and these 00:58:23.150 --> 00:58:26.170 movements. Well, then you've got JD Vance just 00:58:26.170 --> 00:58:29.010 a day or two ago on a podcast straight up saying, 00:58:29.590 --> 00:58:32.329 I will never be quiet about my faith again. I 00:58:32.329 --> 00:58:35.070 will never shut up about my faith. I will honor 00:58:35.070 --> 00:58:38.190 my God. I'll honor Jesus and I'll honor my friend 00:58:38.190 --> 00:58:43.500 Charlie by not being. another level. And you're 00:58:43.500 --> 00:58:45.760 seeing this, people that are not just motivated, 00:58:45.960 --> 00:58:49.340 they are inspired. And now we're moving into 00:58:49.340 --> 00:58:51.320 a new season. Now we know what happens when that 00:58:51.320 --> 00:58:54.139 happens. Well, the enemy starts to strike, try 00:58:54.139 --> 00:58:57.679 to do undermine, do anything he can. NPR, NPR, 00:58:57.840 --> 00:59:00.880 NPR. Hillary coming out. Hey, let me remind you 00:59:00.880 --> 00:59:02.800 about these people. The middle management comes 00:59:02.800 --> 00:59:05.639 out, which who are just middle management. They're 00:59:05.639 --> 00:59:07.659 nothing, nothing. You know, it's like they're 00:59:07.659 --> 00:59:09.559 not even the manager of the restaurant, you know. 00:59:09.599 --> 00:59:12.199 I heard Josh Howerton, he pastors a very large 00:59:12.199 --> 00:59:15.699 church, Lake Point, 27 ,000 people in Rockwall, 00:59:15.699 --> 00:59:18.840 Texas, right outside of Dallas. And he was on 00:59:18.840 --> 00:59:21.699 with Josh McPherson and several other guys. Oh, 00:59:21.699 --> 00:59:23.739 I saw this. You sent me this clip. Yeah, it was 00:59:23.739 --> 00:59:25.679 fantastic. Super good. These guys are amazing 00:59:25.679 --> 00:59:27.119 young men. They're all pretty young, aren't they? 00:59:27.219 --> 00:59:29.920 They're sharp. Yeah. 40s. It's next -gen leaders 00:59:29.920 --> 00:59:32.059 coming up. They all kind of look like you, Pastor 00:59:32.059 --> 00:59:35.139 Jimmy. They're all buff. You know, they got their 00:59:35.139 --> 00:59:37.989 muscles out. They do not have gray hair. These 00:59:37.989 --> 00:59:40.690 guys, they're young. With time, with time. It's 00:59:40.690 --> 00:59:44.329 coming, it's coming. I think guys like you and 00:59:44.329 --> 00:59:48.070 I don't have many, Pastor Darren, Tyler, I mean, 00:59:48.630 --> 00:59:50.849 you've been a great example for all of these 00:59:50.849 --> 00:59:53.309 new pastors. I mean, I really love seeing it. 00:59:53.610 --> 00:59:56.610 I'm seeing pastors now, you know, we got, who's 00:59:56.610 --> 01:00:00.690 the one in, there's another bridge, the bridge. 01:00:00.960 --> 01:00:03.219 There's another church in like a little east 01:00:03.219 --> 01:00:06.400 of Fredericksburg, young pastor, I'm forgetting 01:00:06.400 --> 01:00:09.039 the name of the town. They also, they have a 01:00:09.039 --> 01:00:11.059 Godcaster as well. And he's got a beard, you 01:00:11.059 --> 01:00:13.380 know, he's like drives his truck. And this is 01:00:13.380 --> 01:00:17.239 like, I love the, this is, this was when I, the 01:00:17.239 --> 01:00:21.400 first time in Austin, I went to Austin stone 01:00:21.400 --> 01:00:23.280 church and Tina and I had just been dating and 01:00:23.280 --> 01:00:27.480 she was kind of interested. And I remember going 01:00:27.480 --> 01:00:29.650 there, I was, You know, I was being kind, like, 01:00:29.730 --> 01:00:31.849 this is a date. OK, so I'd just done my show, 01:00:31.869 --> 01:00:34.670 so I was tired. And I'm like, OK, everything 01:00:34.670 --> 01:00:37.150 sounds like you two. And the guys are wearing 01:00:37.150 --> 01:00:39.429 dockers. I'm like, you know. The worship team, 01:00:39.469 --> 01:00:42.670 a .k .a. The band. Yeah. But they were, you know, 01:00:42.849 --> 01:00:45.389 wearing docker pants and, you know, the button 01:00:45.389 --> 01:00:48.110 down shirt. And it's it's different now. And 01:00:48.110 --> 01:00:51.250 I think, you know, pastors like you really brought 01:00:51.250 --> 01:00:53.489 up a whole new generation, which I'm just super 01:00:53.489 --> 01:00:56.309 excited to see. Appreciate that. There seems 01:00:56.309 --> 01:00:59.190 to be a generation now that are much more real 01:00:59.190 --> 01:01:02.869 down to earth. Relatable. They're relatable. 01:01:03.429 --> 01:01:08.070 They're not polished and typical briefcase short 01:01:08.070 --> 01:01:11.650 hair and dockers, just like you said. I had my 01:01:11.650 --> 01:01:13.449 fair share of dockers back in the day. I'm sure 01:01:13.449 --> 01:01:14.969 you did. I'm sure you did. I'm not real proud 01:01:14.969 --> 01:01:17.389 of that, but that was the early days. Nothing 01:01:17.389 --> 01:01:19.489 against dockers. When you're young, you're trying 01:01:19.489 --> 01:01:21.289 to fit in, right? No, I never wore dockers. I 01:01:21.289 --> 01:01:23.909 was never a dockers kind of guy, but still not. 01:01:24.360 --> 01:01:29.980 But I love what's happening with this next generation. 01:01:30.059 --> 01:01:32.559 These guys are talking about what's happening 01:01:32.559 --> 01:01:36.179 in the culture. And they're doing some great 01:01:36.179 --> 01:01:38.699 deconstruction of some of these clips you just 01:01:38.699 --> 01:01:40.940 played, especially the one with Hillary. But 01:01:40.940 --> 01:01:44.360 they're bringing something fresh to the table. 01:01:44.880 --> 01:01:48.320 And they're saying, just like JD Van, we will 01:01:48.320 --> 01:01:51.579 not apologize for who we are. And this is catching 01:01:51.579 --> 01:01:54.579 a lot of traction right now. But it's not because 01:01:54.579 --> 01:01:57.039 we're trying to beat somebody. Right. There's 01:01:57.039 --> 01:02:00.960 only one enemy that's truly an enemy. And I just 01:02:00.960 --> 01:02:03.599 got totally roasted on social media. I mean, 01:02:03.719 --> 01:02:06.280 my my thing went, you know, you now have forty 01:02:06.280 --> 01:02:08.739 four thousand views. Well, that's all evil, mean 01:02:08.739 --> 01:02:11.619 people sending it to each other and bots and 01:02:11.619 --> 01:02:16.369 then. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Some ugly stuff. But. But 01:02:16.369 --> 01:02:19.070 there's a sense where there's no longer a fear 01:02:19.070 --> 01:02:22.409 of this, because the enemy isn't a person. And 01:02:22.409 --> 01:02:24.010 the reason I got castigated is because I used 01:02:24.010 --> 01:02:28.250 the word enemy, the enemy. So people who don't 01:02:28.250 --> 01:02:30.309 know anything about Christianity, they thought 01:02:30.309 --> 01:02:32.210 I was talking about the left. They thought I 01:02:32.210 --> 01:02:34.309 was talking about people. Which is probably what 01:02:34.309 --> 01:02:38.210 most people would think. Here's my thank you 01:02:38.210 --> 01:02:42.269 to 44 ,000 people who slice and dice me on social 01:02:42.269 --> 01:02:45.630 media. is, oh, I need to clarify my terms a little 01:02:45.630 --> 01:02:47.750 bit. Yes. If we're going to send this stuff out 01:02:47.750 --> 01:02:51.429 to the worldwide web, I need to clarify terms 01:02:51.429 --> 01:02:53.190 a little bit. Wow, you just dated yourself by 01:02:53.190 --> 01:02:55.710 saying worldwide web, brother. That's like, hello, 01:02:55.909 --> 01:02:57.849 1995, want this term back. It's like saying the 01:02:57.849 --> 01:03:02.030 YouTube. The YouTube. Well, this is a good point, 01:03:02.269 --> 01:03:04.869 because it does, I mean, even as a newbie, you're 01:03:04.869 --> 01:03:07.750 like, the enemy, the enemy. It took me not long, 01:03:07.750 --> 01:03:09.150 obviously, but it took me a little bit. It's 01:03:09.150 --> 01:03:11.150 like, OK, who is the enemy? What is the enemy? 01:03:11.269 --> 01:03:16.170 Yeah. It is a clarification in terms. It really 01:03:16.170 --> 01:03:21.010 is. Lucifer. So I'm going to be more clear about 01:03:21.010 --> 01:03:24.449 that. Not because I don't want to be slice and 01:03:24.449 --> 01:03:26.510 dice in media. It's going to happen anyway because 01:03:26.510 --> 01:03:29.250 of where I stand. But if I'm going to be slice 01:03:29.250 --> 01:03:32.909 and dice, I want it to be with clarity. I wasn't 01:03:32.909 --> 01:03:35.010 talking about people. I wasn't talking about 01:03:35.010 --> 01:03:37.269 a political movement. I was talking about the 01:03:37.269 --> 01:03:40.489 very real enemy of our souls, the devil. Do you 01:03:40.489 --> 01:03:44.400 ever feel like when you post on Instagram, Facebook, 01:03:44.539 --> 01:03:46.840 that's the main thing. Do you think it really 01:03:46.840 --> 01:03:50.420 makes a difference? Is it just reaffirming people 01:03:50.420 --> 01:03:54.659 who already believe? Do you think you win any 01:03:54.659 --> 01:03:59.320 souls? Does the discipleship online really work? 01:03:59.500 --> 01:04:02.719 I think it builds up those who are already in 01:04:02.719 --> 01:04:05.860 your persuasion. The algos are going to make 01:04:05.860 --> 01:04:08.199 sure that happens, right? It's going to land 01:04:08.199 --> 01:04:10.880 unless you boost, which that's kind of bypasses 01:04:10.880 --> 01:04:13.059 some things because you pay for it. You pay for 01:04:13.059 --> 01:04:15.639 it. You pay to get out into other arenas outside 01:04:15.639 --> 01:04:19.179 the algo. And my daughter who runs our media, 01:04:19.400 --> 01:04:22.880 she'll boost our reels. they'll end up in places 01:04:22.880 --> 01:04:25.320 they normally wouldn't. That's where we get the, 01:04:25.840 --> 01:04:27.900 you're a pig. You're going to hell. I hope you 01:04:27.900 --> 01:04:30.139 burn in hell. I'll never go to church. You're 01:04:30.139 --> 01:04:31.880 the reason I won't go to church. There's one 01:04:31.880 --> 01:04:33.880 thing we know. We know you're not going to hell. 01:04:35.000 --> 01:04:37.980 I'm pretty cool on that. Yeah, I'm all good there. 01:04:39.360 --> 01:04:41.119 Here's what's fun about getting that kind of 01:04:41.119 --> 01:04:43.420 stuff. You've talked about this too, is it gives 01:04:43.420 --> 01:04:46.739 me a name to pray for. Oh yeah, a lot of them. 01:04:46.739 --> 01:04:48.360 This guy, because it's all their names, especially 01:04:48.360 --> 01:04:51.539 on Facebook, you just see who they are. All right, 01:04:51.619 --> 01:04:54.219 Mr. Rodriguez, I'm going to pray for you. All 01:04:54.219 --> 01:04:56.440 right, Mr. Schnell, I'm going to pray for you. 01:04:56.599 --> 01:04:58.880 Thank you. Now, have a target. Just pray for 01:04:58.880 --> 01:05:02.960 me. early on to reply saying, I'm going to pray 01:05:02.960 --> 01:05:07.000 for you. Big mistake. You might as well just 01:05:07.000 --> 01:05:09.539 throw gasoline on the fire. Like, I'm going to 01:05:09.539 --> 01:05:12.659 pray for you, man. That will come back a million 01:05:12.659 --> 01:05:14.980 times like, oh, I prayed for you. You know, you 01:05:14.980 --> 01:05:16.920 can even, I'm doing the voice just because I 01:05:16.920 --> 01:05:20.739 can hear it in text. So we don't have any people 01:05:20.739 --> 01:05:23.119 enemies. And this is the thing about, we're not 01:05:23.119 --> 01:05:25.500 trying to create a theocracy where it's us and 01:05:25.500 --> 01:05:29.800 them. That's the mistake. But I can see if you 01:05:29.800 --> 01:05:33.920 heard Benny Johnson's speech or pro -Civic, either 01:05:33.920 --> 01:05:36.119 of those guys, they were like - Or Stephen Miller. 01:05:36.199 --> 01:05:38.800 Or Stephen Miller, like, we're ready to go. I 01:05:38.800 --> 01:05:42.880 was like, whoa, whoa, damn boy. But you're always 01:05:42.880 --> 01:05:45.099 going to have that on all sides. You're going 01:05:45.099 --> 01:05:47.460 to have your guys who are ready to go fight. 01:05:48.380 --> 01:05:53.690 But it's just rhetoric. I'm sad. That's not the 01:05:53.690 --> 01:05:55.869 stuff I wanted to hear in the memorial. I want 01:05:55.869 --> 01:05:57.769 to hear, hey, let's get back to Charlie. Well, 01:05:57.889 --> 01:06:01.829 there was six hours of other stuff. Yeah, of 01:06:01.829 --> 01:06:05.550 wonderful, amazing, God -honoring, Charlie -honoring, 01:06:05.849 --> 01:06:10.449 young life, well -lived. But of course, people 01:06:10.449 --> 01:06:12.829 or critics are going to jump on the stuff, and 01:06:12.829 --> 01:06:15.909 it's okay. To me, it just is part and parcel 01:06:15.909 --> 01:06:19.119 of what we do here. But it's sad that it's become 01:06:19.119 --> 01:06:23.800 such a us versus them. My heart, I don't have 01:06:23.800 --> 01:06:27.900 enemies. I just don't. I have one. But the people 01:06:27.900 --> 01:06:30.079 that sit on another side of the aisle, they are 01:06:30.079 --> 01:06:32.440 not my enemies. And when they try to make it 01:06:32.440 --> 01:06:36.039 personal, I just don't let it be personal. So 01:06:36.039 --> 01:06:40.800 what can we give believers who want what advice, 01:06:41.699 --> 01:06:46.320 what tips and tricks? who want to speak boldly 01:06:46.320 --> 01:06:49.639 about their faith, who don't want to be unashamed 01:06:49.639 --> 01:06:52.099 of the gospel of Jesus Christ. And they're going 01:06:52.099 --> 01:06:55.199 to be doing this within the realm of people who 01:06:55.199 --> 01:06:57.800 are here. This is their media diet. This is what 01:06:57.800 --> 01:07:00.739 they're hearing. Should we just shut up? Or can 01:07:00.739 --> 01:07:04.159 we say things? How do we approach it? Any thoughts? 01:07:04.679 --> 01:07:06.340 It's like I'm interviewing you. What's going 01:07:06.340 --> 01:07:08.800 on here? This is actually me with real questions. 01:07:08.880 --> 01:07:11.039 This is actual questions that I have. Let me 01:07:11.039 --> 01:07:13.340 start with just a scripture here, and it comes 01:07:13.340 --> 01:07:16.719 out of Proverbs 15 .1, and it's really simple. 01:07:16.860 --> 01:07:21.019 It says, a soft word turns away wrath. And I've 01:07:21.019 --> 01:07:23.400 learned because, you know, when I start getting 01:07:23.400 --> 01:07:27.530 all that stuff, my first response is, Oh, well, 01:07:27.650 --> 01:07:32.150 where's my keyboard? Even you, even you. Oh man, 01:07:32.329 --> 01:07:34.269 it's a human thing, right? Because it hurts. 01:07:35.989 --> 01:07:37.929 If it doesn't hurt, I don't ever want to get 01:07:37.929 --> 01:07:39.929 to where things don't hurt anymore. I don't want 01:07:39.929 --> 01:07:42.570 to get that hard. I don't want my skin to get 01:07:42.570 --> 01:07:44.969 that thick. It's kind of like the guy saying, 01:07:44.969 --> 01:07:46.909 I don't have any friends in the church. I'm like, 01:07:47.090 --> 01:07:50.130 dude, you don't have a church. I don't know what 01:07:50.130 --> 01:07:52.409 you have. You get some people meeting, but it's 01:07:52.409 --> 01:07:54.670 not the Church of Jesus Christ. It's not the 01:07:54.650 --> 01:07:57.710 faith community, a spiritual family, but I apply 01:07:57.710 --> 01:07:59.769 that thing to anything. I don't ever want to 01:07:59.769 --> 01:08:02.989 get that hard where it just rolls off my back. 01:08:03.590 --> 01:08:05.869 That's when you cease to feel. When you cease 01:08:05.869 --> 01:08:09.889 to feel, you cease to miss the human condition. 01:08:10.789 --> 01:08:13.849 There are reasons why people are angry. Let's 01:08:13.849 --> 01:08:15.610 get a little deeper. Let's go a little behind 01:08:15.610 --> 01:08:19.350 the veil and go, okay, what's creating that response? 01:08:20.090 --> 01:08:23.289 Why is that person so, why does he suddenly declare, 01:08:23.600 --> 01:08:25.800 I'm going to hell. I'm the reason they'll never 01:08:25.800 --> 01:08:28.880 go back to church. And, you know, you're a pig, 01:08:29.079 --> 01:08:32.640 you know, just crazy stuff. What's behind that? 01:08:33.560 --> 01:08:39.260 Frustration, fear, pain, you know, trauma. I 01:08:39.260 --> 01:08:41.579 mean, you go down a list. And no way to deal 01:08:41.579 --> 01:08:45.100 with it. No way to deal with it the way I certainly, 01:08:45.380 --> 01:08:47.939 you know, I... talk to God, I talk to Jesus, 01:08:48.039 --> 01:08:50.399 I give it to God, like, got to give you this 01:08:50.399 --> 01:08:53.159 God, I just got to get this off my chest. So 01:08:53.159 --> 01:08:55.960 if you're hurting, crushed, mad, and then you 01:08:55.960 --> 01:08:59.119 see some guy standing in a pulpit with a microphone 01:08:59.119 --> 01:09:04.140 and he's joyful, confident, standing and believing, 01:09:04.359 --> 01:09:07.060 you know, it made it just sounds arrogant. It 01:09:07.060 --> 01:09:09.720 sounds like, I remember when I was at a really 01:09:09.720 --> 01:09:12.500 down place and I had friends that were doing 01:09:12.500 --> 01:09:16.890 great and there was a part of me Even as a Christian, 01:09:17.130 --> 01:09:18.970 I was like, man, I just wish they wouldn't tell 01:09:18.970 --> 01:09:21.029 me how great they're doing so much. I'd kill 01:09:21.029 --> 01:09:23.289 it. You know what I mean? The human side of you 01:09:23.289 --> 01:09:25.510 just goes, man, well then what's wrong with me? 01:09:26.010 --> 01:09:28.430 So there's so many human dynamics that play into 01:09:28.430 --> 01:09:31.409 this. Besides spiritual, there's that. Born into 01:09:31.409 --> 01:09:34.689 a world of war, John Eldridge. Besides all that, 01:09:35.109 --> 01:09:38.489 there's the human condition of people are hurting 01:09:38.489 --> 01:09:42.649 and they're looking for things to hang it on. 01:09:42.750 --> 01:09:45.199 Where's a hook? Oh, you're a hook, Adam Curry, 01:09:45.359 --> 01:09:47.579 because you call yourself a Jesus freak. Well, 01:09:47.840 --> 01:09:49.640 let me tell you about those Zionist masochists. 01:09:50.840 --> 01:09:52.680 They're taking over the world. Here's a hook. 01:09:52.960 --> 01:09:55.819 It's so true. People just jump to these things, 01:09:56.079 --> 01:09:57.979 and they're looking for people to be mad at. 01:09:58.079 --> 01:09:59.859 They're looking for a face. And we're putting 01:09:59.859 --> 01:10:01.479 ours out there, right? We're putting our voice 01:10:01.479 --> 01:10:03.720 out there. Putting our face out there. I'm okay 01:10:03.720 --> 01:10:06.560 with it. Hang in on me. I'm okay. You're right. 01:10:06.880 --> 01:10:09.130 As long as I got your name. I can do something 01:10:09.130 --> 01:10:11.569 for you. So there we go. So you asked a really 01:10:11.569 --> 01:10:14.430 good question. What can people do, you know, 01:10:14.649 --> 01:10:16.909 to come out of the closet, so to speak, to come 01:10:16.909 --> 01:10:19.890 out of the darkness into the light. First of 01:10:19.890 --> 01:10:23.449 all, don't go out looking for fights. I think 01:10:23.449 --> 01:10:27.029 what's happened is so many people I know, and 01:10:27.029 --> 01:10:28.729 I'm not going to name any organizations that 01:10:28.729 --> 01:10:31.970 I'm clearly good friends with and what, but, 01:10:32.310 --> 01:10:35.270 but there is a sense where I see some friends 01:10:35.270 --> 01:10:37.210 of mine going on social media, posting their 01:10:37.210 --> 01:10:40.039 victories. Here we were at the school board meeting 01:10:40.039 --> 01:10:42.840 down here and so on this place place boy We showed 01:10:42.840 --> 01:10:47.380 them and we won and and I'm like guys Is that 01:10:47.380 --> 01:10:51.100 the point to win? What does winning mean? Yeah, 01:10:51.619 --> 01:10:54.460 if we don't win a human heart, have we really 01:10:54.460 --> 01:10:57.979 won anything? You know, maybe we move the needle 01:10:57.979 --> 01:11:01.239 on Getting some books out of school and that's 01:11:01.239 --> 01:11:04.359 not a bad. I'm not disparaging that but that's 01:11:04.359 --> 01:11:10.460 not the win the win is shifting culture, shifting 01:11:10.460 --> 01:11:16.859 hearts, to embrace not only Jesus, but the fruit 01:11:16.859 --> 01:11:19.800 of the Spirit, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, 01:11:20.039 --> 01:11:22.960 goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, self -control. 01:11:23.140 --> 01:11:25.140 Patience and self -control are the big ones for 01:11:25.140 --> 01:11:27.579 me. All of those. All of those. All of the above. 01:11:27.680 --> 01:11:32.420 Those nine fruit of the Spirit. So I think what's 01:11:32.420 --> 01:11:34.819 tempting to do when you're ready to come out, 01:11:34.960 --> 01:11:37.550 you want to come out big. We tend to like to 01:11:37.550 --> 01:11:41.489 grandstand things. And then we post it. We slash 01:11:41.489 --> 01:11:45.649 it. Yeah, we throw it on IG. Whatever. Here's 01:11:45.649 --> 01:11:48.909 my victory. And I've been watching this, and 01:11:48.909 --> 01:11:52.390 you're helping me do this, whether you intend 01:11:52.390 --> 01:11:55.569 to or not. Just the more we talk about it, I'm 01:11:55.569 --> 01:11:59.130 backing away from it. I'm stepping back. And 01:11:59.130 --> 01:12:01.310 Eddie even made a comment like, wow, you didn't 01:12:01.310 --> 01:12:03.630 even post anything about our retreat online. 01:12:03.710 --> 01:12:07.850 I go, why should I? Whose business is it? We 01:12:07.850 --> 01:12:10.890 had a great retreat. It was amazing. But you 01:12:10.890 --> 01:12:14.409 know, why would I feel the need to throw that 01:12:14.409 --> 01:12:16.729 out there? To float it? I personally believe 01:12:16.729 --> 01:12:18.710 that's all prideful. It's all pridefulness. It 01:12:18.710 --> 01:12:22.170 can be. Because what are you doing it for? What 01:12:22.170 --> 01:12:25.170 are you actually doing? I mean, is it to confirm 01:12:25.170 --> 01:12:28.229 to the staff who see that? You confirm that. 01:12:28.689 --> 01:12:31.050 They'll know. You have another staff meeting 01:12:31.050 --> 01:12:33.789 this week. Everyone will agree. I wrote a DG 01:12:33.789 --> 01:12:36.579 about them. how much I love them and appreciate 01:12:36.579 --> 01:12:39.899 and value, but having to like take a bunch of 01:12:39.899 --> 01:12:43.000 pictures, make sure I get photo ops with all 01:12:43.000 --> 01:12:45.840 my friends. It's all idolatry, brother. That's 01:12:45.840 --> 01:12:49.979 the way I see it. You're messing me up in a good 01:12:49.979 --> 01:12:54.439 way because I'm beginning to look beyond just 01:12:54.439 --> 01:12:59.859 the initial photo of why. So when it comes to 01:12:59.859 --> 01:13:03.600 coming out, I don't think social media is the 01:13:03.600 --> 01:13:05.479 platform. I got to tell you a story which just 01:13:05.479 --> 01:13:08.979 came to mind. In the very, very early days of 01:13:08.979 --> 01:13:11.859 weblogs, this is the precursor to social media 01:13:11.859 --> 01:13:15.079 and news feeds, blogs. It was even before they 01:13:15.079 --> 01:13:18.279 were called blogs. And I was one of the early 01:13:18.279 --> 01:13:23.579 adopters. We're talking 2002, 2003. And I was 01:13:23.579 --> 01:13:25.699 living, I think I was living in Belgium at the 01:13:25.699 --> 01:13:28.779 time. And I might have even had a reality show. 01:13:28.800 --> 01:13:30.920 So it was kind of a part of, you know, I'm going 01:13:30.920 --> 01:13:36.140 to post stuff about what I'm doing. And there 01:13:36.140 --> 01:13:40.760 were two bosses at the television radio company 01:13:40.760 --> 01:13:43.699 that I'd really got my first start at, at Veronica 01:13:43.699 --> 01:13:46.859 Television and Radio. And my good friend Lex, 01:13:46.899 --> 01:13:49.279 who just turned 80, went to his birthday. And 01:13:49.279 --> 01:13:52.220 the other guy was a guy named Rob, Rob Out, funny 01:13:52.220 --> 01:13:56.939 enough. And he passed away. And he sent me, I 01:13:56.939 --> 01:14:00.720 think we had text at the time, he sent me a text 01:14:00.720 --> 01:14:04.340 message, hey, Rob Out just passed away. And I 01:14:04.340 --> 01:14:07.960 went ahead and put it on my blog. But that wasn't 01:14:07.960 --> 01:14:10.079 the family's wish. And I remember him calling 01:14:10.079 --> 01:14:14.260 me up and said, I don't understand this necessity 01:14:14.260 --> 01:14:17.140 to put your life and everything. He was mad. 01:14:17.479 --> 01:14:19.479 Put your life and everything out there on the 01:14:19.479 --> 01:14:23.039 internet. What's the point? Wow. And that just 01:14:23.039 --> 01:14:26.079 came to mind because I remember thinking, yeah, 01:14:26.079 --> 01:14:29.100 what was the point? That was me being breaking 01:14:29.100 --> 01:14:33.750 news. It was all. All ego at that point. And 01:14:33.750 --> 01:14:36.590 that has stuck with me for so long. And of course, 01:14:37.850 --> 01:14:40.869 now the medium is the message. The whole point 01:14:40.869 --> 01:14:44.949 is look at me. Look at how awesome my life is. 01:14:48.180 --> 01:14:51.579 It seems like it's not a God thing. Brother, 01:14:51.800 --> 01:14:54.680 my heart's there with you. And man, that had 01:14:54.680 --> 01:14:56.840 to be painful when you got the reality that... 01:14:56.840 --> 01:14:59.020 Particularly from him. Because you care about 01:14:59.020 --> 01:15:04.000 these people. And also, he was like my dad. He 01:15:04.000 --> 01:15:06.720 was in a way a surrogate father for me. He was 01:15:06.720 --> 01:15:09.800 scolding me correctly. And I was like, I'm a 01:15:09.800 --> 01:15:12.560 grown man. What am I doing? What was that about? 01:15:13.659 --> 01:15:16.920 So there you go. When we talk about... having 01:15:16.920 --> 01:15:20.039 your voice heard or being vocal, starting to 01:15:20.039 --> 01:15:23.199 come get back in the public square. The question 01:15:23.199 --> 01:15:26.439 is, why are you doing it? Are you doing it because 01:15:26.439 --> 01:15:28.359 everybody else is doing it? Because you think 01:15:28.359 --> 01:15:30.859 about it, we get caught up in waves. We get caught 01:15:30.859 --> 01:15:33.159 up in movements. We get caught up in trends. 01:15:34.260 --> 01:15:37.020 And am I doing, is this just another TikTok dance 01:15:37.020 --> 01:15:39.819 video of, you know, you know, middle America 01:15:39.819 --> 01:15:42.119 wife, you know, doing her little dance, you know, 01:15:42.180 --> 01:15:44.539 to a Chico, you know, Chico outfit, you know? 01:15:44.720 --> 01:15:48.640 I mean, it just, it's like, Or am I coming out, 01:15:48.680 --> 01:15:51.460 not on social media, but showing up to a school 01:15:51.460 --> 01:15:54.659 board meeting? It's one thing to just come on 01:15:54.659 --> 01:15:57.659 and give your opinion about everything. It's 01:15:57.659 --> 01:15:59.699 way different to actually show up at a school 01:15:59.699 --> 01:16:03.479 board meeting, not looking for a fight. But how 01:16:03.479 --> 01:16:06.079 about lacing the atmosphere with the Word of 01:16:06.079 --> 01:16:08.699 God and prayer? I'm not saying out loud, make 01:16:08.699 --> 01:16:10.539 yourself look weird. You can pray with your eyes 01:16:10.539 --> 01:16:12.039 open. You don't have to look weird when you're 01:16:12.039 --> 01:16:15.800 praying. where you're actually inviting and invoking 01:16:15.800 --> 01:16:18.920 the presence of God into that space. And it works. 01:16:19.319 --> 01:16:22.159 It really works. And doing really something crazy 01:16:22.159 --> 01:16:24.619 like going up and introducing yourself to school 01:16:24.619 --> 01:16:28.760 board members as an ally instead of an adversary. 01:16:29.060 --> 01:16:31.760 And I think some of the things that I'm seeing 01:16:31.760 --> 01:16:36.119 of people I love and care about is that they're 01:16:36.119 --> 01:16:41.420 adversarial from the get -go. Now mind you they're 01:16:41.420 --> 01:16:44.520 getting training all day long online the training 01:16:44.520 --> 01:16:47.579 is there every single day the training to be 01:16:47.579 --> 01:16:52.659 adversarial to be prideful to be Make sure you 01:16:52.659 --> 01:16:55.279 post your pictures of your victory Yeah, and 01:16:55.279 --> 01:16:57.720 and I get it because when we win we want other 01:16:57.720 --> 01:17:00.699 people to cheer and we want we're excited about 01:17:00.699 --> 01:17:02.840 it By the way, I stumble over this all the time 01:17:02.840 --> 01:17:06.140 myself. I'm not like mr. Perfect over here far 01:17:06.140 --> 01:17:11.800 from it. I get it. I get it I've had opportunities 01:17:11.800 --> 01:17:15.239 to get pictures with famous people, and I don't. 01:17:15.659 --> 01:17:18.800 I just don't. I've just stopped it. This is the 01:17:18.800 --> 01:17:22.600 worst, and I'm susceptible to it as well. Celebrity 01:17:22.600 --> 01:17:24.979 dies. Look, here's me with that dead celebrity 01:17:24.979 --> 01:17:31.939 in 1987. Why am I doing this? It's crazy. I think 01:17:31.939 --> 01:17:34.449 there's points where you're like, I really want 01:17:34.449 --> 01:17:37.329 to eulogize this guy. And there's a good side 01:17:37.329 --> 01:17:39.550 to that. So I don't want to just sound like I'm 01:17:39.550 --> 01:17:41.829 just throwing buckets of cold water on everybody. 01:17:42.350 --> 01:17:44.250 But I think we need to think about these things. 01:17:44.590 --> 01:17:47.529 So your question was, how do we come out? And 01:17:47.529 --> 01:17:53.310 I just think that's not the way. I've seen that 01:17:53.310 --> 01:17:56.810 work go badly for friends of mine who came out 01:17:56.810 --> 01:18:00.210 too quickly with a victory and it turned on them. 01:18:00.300 --> 01:18:04.100 because they posted it on public online. I can 01:18:04.100 --> 01:18:06.699 name names, but I want to protect my friends. 01:18:07.039 --> 01:18:10.159 And the guilty. And both, yes. So anyway, come 01:18:10.159 --> 01:18:14.000 out by showing up. There you go. Come out by 01:18:14.000 --> 01:18:17.090 attending. a meeting, a school board meeting. 01:18:17.270 --> 01:18:20.789 Go to a city council meeting. Go to the chamber 01:18:20.789 --> 01:18:22.989 of commerce meetings, all kinds of stuff. County 01:18:22.989 --> 01:18:24.890 commissioner meetings are fascinating, actually. 01:18:25.210 --> 01:18:26.289 Those are interesting. Those are very interesting. 01:18:26.489 --> 01:18:28.369 There's a lot of stuff happening there. Yeah. 01:18:28.569 --> 01:18:30.710 I mean, but people don't even think about it. 01:18:30.930 --> 01:18:32.449 You know, there's library committees. There's 01:18:32.449 --> 01:18:36.489 all kinds of things that you can do. I think 01:18:36.489 --> 01:18:39.609 the thing I would try to resist is getting in 01:18:39.609 --> 01:18:42.750 a gaggle of people, like on a text chain and 01:18:42.750 --> 01:18:47.350 just constantly revving each other up. About 01:18:47.350 --> 01:18:49.569 the conspiracies that we just read, that awesome 01:18:49.569 --> 01:18:52.670 scripture. This is a big deal. It is. A lot of 01:18:52.670 --> 01:18:55.270 that, a lot of that. I just go silent. I'm on 01:18:55.270 --> 01:18:58.289 a few, even with just a few people and I just 01:18:58.289 --> 01:19:02.029 go silent and I just let it pass. I don't jump 01:19:02.029 --> 01:19:04.810 in. It takes people down and what it does, it 01:19:04.810 --> 01:19:07.010 gives, like we were listening to those, was it 01:19:07.010 --> 01:19:09.729 NPR? NPR, yeah. Listening to them and what we 01:19:09.729 --> 01:19:13.949 do is we give them ammo with this rhetoric. With 01:19:13.949 --> 01:19:18.170 this dark combative river rhetoric. Yeah You 01:19:18.170 --> 01:19:20.909 know the most classy athletes ever played sports 01:19:20.909 --> 01:19:23.909 with were the quiet ones. Mm -hmm. He would just 01:19:23.909 --> 01:19:28.810 show up No flash no victory dance, but they'd 01:19:28.810 --> 01:19:31.050 kick your butt on the ball field Yeah, and then 01:19:31.050 --> 01:19:32.909 they'd come over and help you up and it's all 01:19:32.909 --> 01:19:36.170 any gun. I remember the name It's always the 01:19:36.170 --> 01:19:39.710 people who speak quietly. Yes infrequently who 01:19:39.710 --> 01:19:41.470 get the most attention to what they're saying. 01:19:41.829 --> 01:19:46.920 Yes Yes. And I think we should leave it there. 01:19:49.659 --> 01:19:52.260 We ended up back at social media. You notice 01:19:52.260 --> 01:19:55.859 this seems to be a common theme. Because we see 01:19:55.859 --> 01:20:02.819 the danger. We see the temptation, the danger, 01:20:03.199 --> 01:20:07.899 and the nonsensical nature of it. It just doesn't 01:20:07.899 --> 01:20:14.100 necessarily help. It reveals our flesh. It reveals 01:20:14.100 --> 01:20:17.079 where we're weak, not where we're strong. And 01:20:17.079 --> 01:20:20.100 where we're strong is we're supposed to bless 01:20:20.100 --> 01:20:23.279 our enemies. We're not supposed to curse them. 01:20:23.300 --> 01:20:27.560 We're supposed to bless them. That isn't popular 01:20:27.560 --> 01:20:30.180 right now. That would not go over well in some 01:20:30.180 --> 01:20:33.819 of my circles. It's right there in the book. 01:20:34.079 --> 01:20:36.000 It's right there in the book. Let's bring out 01:20:36.000 --> 01:20:39.359 the book. This is a conversation you and I would 01:20:39.359 --> 01:20:42.079 have had in a restaurant at your house, at my 01:20:42.079 --> 01:20:44.560 house. I want everyone to know that we enjoy 01:20:44.560 --> 01:20:47.859 this. I hope you enjoyed listening to it. We 01:20:47.859 --> 01:20:50.140 enjoy it even more because we're uninterrupted. 01:20:50.239 --> 01:20:52.079 There's an on -air light outside your door, which 01:20:52.079 --> 01:20:54.640 people seem to respect. We didn't get set at 01:20:54.640 --> 01:20:57.760 opposite ends of the table. Exactly. In a big 01:20:57.760 --> 01:21:00.039 group. Brother, thank you so much. I really appreciate 01:21:00.039 --> 01:21:03.380 it. Love you too, brother. We will be back hopefully 01:21:03.380 --> 01:21:05.859 next week. We get to do this, everybody.