oh yeah my kid's just ripping pokemon cards oh
he's selling cards at a card show or online he's
learning how to you know transact he's learning
how to do business at a young age it's actually
a good thing when in reality they're just being
conditioned through influence through social
media that this is completely acceptable and
i wasn't the type of gambler that would you know
be able to lose a couple hundred bucks and then
walk away Anytime I started to lose, I would
double down. Hey, everyone. Welcome to another
episode of Evive Live. My name is Adam Lyons,
the host of the Modern Meeting Podcast. I am
here with Christina Cook from the Broke Girls
Society. Christina, how are we doing? We're doing
all right. We're doing all right. Yeah. I mean,
you know, if there's one thing that I love to
do, especially in the last four years of my recovery,
I love when I learn shit. I know that sounds
corny, but like I loved learning about. the world
of hobby breaking, ripping. Like it was, my head
is spinning, but it was, it was awesome to talk
to. We talked to Alyx Effron, the founder of Collectors
MD. Yeah. Yeah. I was absolutely fascinated by
the conversation because even though I've been
working in this space almost five years and I've
thought I've heard every story, it's just interesting
to see how gambling can translate into so many
different things. And it seems like it's just
so more acceptable, right? Like hobbies, hobby.
What is the definition of a hobby? Right. And
it's just like, so you never think about hobbies
being. Even though I will say I used to joke
that I should start a hobbies anonymous because
I but my version of that was just starting a
new hobby and then just moving on. But when I
would start that hobby, I'd buy everything I
needed for the hobby. I would get into it and
then build. I was just like, no, I need everything
to start it. And then I would never really get
into it. And then so like that's kind of my experience
with hobbies. But he really, really. opened that
book and showed us that no this is this is a
really really um serious topic yeah and and like
all I could think of was like you know because
I was coming into this conversation not knowing
a lot at all but by the end of it for me it was
just like it seems like it's been a perfect storm
of like social media gambling greed you know
money and you know like just like the immaturity
i mean the there's there's kids that are you
know there's no regular i mean this is the truly
the wild wild west when it comes to this this
whole this whole scene and it's just it's so
you know i said it on the interview i said in
the conversation with Alyx like it's just another
it seems like another thing that we ruined right
like i can remember growing up going to card
shows with my dad And, you know, like and then
I got the Beckett book and I would look up to
see how much my Cal Ripken rookie card was. I
mean, now it's just it's just a whole nother
world. And it's just it just seems chaotic the
way that it's the way that it's set up. Well,
if you think back to your own gambling harms
and when you were in that active addiction, like,
do you remember how chaotic? Oh, my God. So many
similarities. But even when he was kind of breaking
it down on the way that. that these places reach
out the emails that they send. It's very, it's
very gambling ask, you know, free incentives,
things like that, which very much mirrored the
spaces of like free bets, free play prizes, things
like that. If you spend so much money, you get
this. And it was just really fascinating for
him to kind of take us into that world and a
world that. And I'm going to be really honest.
I haven't really been too curious about until
hearing his side of things. And now, yeah, now
I'm in. It's like, now you can't not, not see
it. Like you, you see now it's just like, even
with my nieces and nephews, it's just like, now
I'm going to be hyper -focused on kind of what,
what they're doing. And, you know, we see things
like the little boo -boos and, and. I'll just
share this story and then we'll just get into
the episode. But I was at the mall recently with
my niece and she really wanted one of those little
boo -boos. I hope I'm saying them right. That
everybody was talking about. And they were like,
I didn't really know much about them because
I'm 47. But it really was like, we stopped at
this thing and he was like, you can buy one for
this amount or you can buy three for, basically
you get one free. Of course, my niece was like,
she just wanted one. And I was like, OK, I'll
get you one. But you don't know what it is like.
You don't know what one you're getting. There's
more that are more valuable or more desirable.
And it felt so much like gambling to me to buy
the three because you could get three of the
same things or whatever. And I said, I'll get
you one just because I'm I'm here to spoil you
today. Um, but it really kind of made me think
about the gambling aspect for me, like to buy
three, get two free. I mean, buy three, get one
free. And then, but you still don't know what
you're getting. So there's that element, right?
Yeah. My nephew, my nephews, my nephew does the
same thing. I remember, uh, we were at like a
family thing and he had told another one of my
nieces that he got a little boo -boo for Christmas
and the first thing they said was, Oh, which
one did you get? Did you get the special one
or did you get this one? And you, it's just hitting
me now that like, it's the same thing. God, same
thing. Well, I hope this, this conversation speaks
to you in the way that it did with us. It was
very informative and we appreciate Alyx coming
on. So let's get into this episode. Hey everyone,
another episode of Evive Live. This week we have
the founder of Collectors MD, Alyx Effron. Alyx,
welcome to Evive Live. Adam, Christina, thanks
so much for having me. Really excited to be here
and have this conversation. We've been doing
some amazing things with Evive and this has been
something I've been looking forward to for some
time. Yeah, so before we get into kind of your
story and everything, you got to tell us, because...
I had baseball cards when I was a kid and that's
about it. But give us the cliff notes of what
is Collectors MD and what is the problem that
you're trying to solve in the space? Yeah. So
I didn't start Collectors MD because I was anti
-hobby, anti -gambling, anti -collecting, anything
like that. I started it because I love collecting.
I love the hobby. I've been doing it my whole
life. I grew up, you know, with a grandfather
who was an avid watch collector. Like he loved
luxury watches and I would always marvel at them.
And, you know, it was always just kind of rooted
in my, I think my DNA. And so as I got a bit
older, I got into things like memorabilia and
sneakers, obviously watches too. Fast forward
to the pandemic, everybody was on lockdown, the
sports card hobby. absolutely exploded. And it
became this phenomenon of sorts where people
were able to sort of interact and connect with
one another virtually. And it was actually, you
know, in theory, a beautiful thing. There was
connection, camaraderie, excitement around shared
passion, things of that nature. And so, you know,
by becoming more involved in this hobby. I saw
firsthand how easily it can slip from that passion
into just unrelenting pressure. You know, so
through my collecting journey, I know the rush
of the chase, the satisfaction of, you know,
the hit or the purchase, the way timing, scarcity,
and community validation can really just, you
know, light up your brain. But I also live the
other side, the creeping normalization of overspending,
the rationalizations, the feeling of just, feeling
like you have to be in control while quietly
feeling like, you know, you're really out of
alignment. You know, nothing catastrophic had
to happen for it to be a problem. It was subtle,
it was quiet, and that's exactly why it became
so dangerous. And what I realized is that modern
collecting isn't neutral anymore, right? It's
fast, it's frictionless, it's algorithm driven.
And it's just increasingly built around gambling
mechanics. You have speed, you have randomness,
you have social pressure, you have constant access.
And when those systems collide with things like
stress and identity and loneliness or financial
vulnerability, the outcomes can be really harmful,
even if they don't look so dramatic from the
outside. When I went looking for support, there
was a gap. traditional gambling resources didn't
really fully fit. I would go to GA meetings and
I would just feel out of place. You know, I had,
I had a gambling problem too, a severe one, but
you know, the two sort of were intertwined and
they kind of fed, fed each other in a way. And
so I'd sit down in a GA room, I'd start talking
about joining breaks and just buying box after
box. And we're not talking about $30, $50. you
know, boxes that you see in Walmart or Target,
we're talking about high -end hobby boxes that
cost anywhere from a couple hundred bucks to
upwards of $10 ,000, a pop, like we're talking
about a pop, right? And, you know, people buy
them in high volume. They go one after another
the same way a compulsive gambler would just
keep gambling, right? And so, you know, hobby
spaces don't want to talk about harm. And collectors
who are struggling, you know, feel isolated and
ashamed and unsure whether their experience,
you know, counted or matters. And so Collectors MD
really exists to fill that gap. It's not about
shaming the hobby or telling people they need
to quit collecting. It's about giving collectors
language, support and structure, whether that
means learning to collect more intentionally,
stepping away entirely. Or just finally being
honest about what something is costing them emotionally,
financially or relationally. Right. With their
with their relationships at its core. MD is about
one thing. It's just helping people to stay connected
to themselves while navigating a system that's
just designed to pull them out of alignment.
Yeah. Yeah. And so forgive my ignorance. I know,
Christina, you probably know a little bit more
about collecting than I do, but there was at
least like. 10 or 12 words that you just said
that I kind of know what it is, but I don't know
what it is. So, you know, and I'm sure I'm not
the only one listening right now who is very
curious about this, especially like maybe some
of these parents out there that have young kids.
Cause so I guess let's start with, you know,
you were mentioned that it's like fast pace and
high pressure. So just, you know, explain to
us, like we're five years old, like what exactly
does that mean? Like, like what, what are, so
people are trading like on the internet. I know
I sound ignorant and stupid right now. I just
don't, I've never. I'm going to come in with
my thought and see if it kind of lines up, but
like the pressure of like a bid or, you know,
only having so much time to get that bid, make
sure you get the right amount of money in the
bid for whatever the, the box or that you're
doing that. That was my thought, but I'd love
to hear that explanation to see if I'm even on
the same. Yeah. Like what's a bid. What's a box,
like a box of what, a box of cards or a box.
okay okay yeah i'm gonna take a step back um
and talk about breaking because that's where
this is all uh sort of happening it's where the
a lot of the problems a lot of the harm is taking
place and so breaking in layman's terms is when
people um an individual or you know a card shop
opens sealed boxes of trading cards we're talking
about You know, anything from sports cards to
TCG, which includes like Pokemon and Magic the
Gathering and Yu -Gi -Oh! And then there's, you
know, franchises that have trading cards now.
Think Disney, Marvel. I mean, SpongeBob has a
product of its own now that's become incredibly
popular. And so these individuals are basically
opening up these high -end, expensive sealed
boxes live on a stream. and then selling spots
to viewers ahead of time. So instead of buying
an entire box by yourself because it can be so
incredibly expensive, you're basically buying
a piece of it. And it's usually tied to something
like a team or a player or a random slot. And
when the cards get opened, when the box gets
opened on camera, whatever hits from your spot
belong to you or assigned to you, the breaker
then sends them to you. Oh, okay. Let's say you
buy the Knicks or you buy a random team in a
break and you get assigned the Knicks, right?
The New York Knicks. You're only going to get
Knicks cards from that particular box. If nothing
good comes out for your team, if there are no
Knicks cards at all, you still paid, but you
don't get anything back. If a big card does get
hit, it feels like a huge win, right? And so
that's why people compare breaking to gambling.
It's one in the same. I mean, that literally
is gambling from what you're telling me. Well,
the definition of gambling is when a person stakes
something of value on the outcome of an event
or a thing and with the hope of winning something,
right? So when we look at the definition, that's
exactly what it is. You know, the consideration,
right? What you're putting up for to get something
of value, right? The chance, the chance of getting
something valuable. Right. And then the prize.
Exactly. Yeah, you're paying for uncertainty.
The excitement is all in the reveal and the outcome
is completely out of your control. It's fast
paced. It's social. It can feel harmless because
it's, you know, really disguised as this nostalgic
childhood hobby. But it can also, you know, spiral
out of hand very, very quickly, especially because
it's designed to keep people engaged and just
chasing the next hit. Christina, you brought
up the whole concept of auctions. We're talking
about eBay. There are a handful of other platforms
that utilize the auction style transactions to
purchase a product. Now, a lot of these live
streaming platforms have adopted the auction
style. So when a breaker or an individual is
filling a break, they're usually selling the
teams at auction. So you have all of the teams
on the board. Hoping you get one of the better
teams for, you know, the respective products.
So, for instance, you know, today's latest Topps
Chrome Basketball 2025 -26 edition, the big chase
is Cooper Flagg because he's the hottest rookie
in the NBA right now. So you want to get the
Dallas Mavericks, right? And so in a random team
break, if the Dallas Mavericks are still available,
people are going to be paying a premium at auction.
For a random team or a chance to get the Maverick.
So it's like you're gambling before you even
get to the actual, you know, gamble. Right. And
so there's another thing that I want to touch
on real quick. And that's sudden death auction.
And that means that the clock doesn't reset after
somebody bids. And that's usually what happens
in a traditional auction. When the time runs
out, it's over. Right. Instantly. That creates
this constant fear that any pause. means you're
going to lose. There's no breathing room. There's
no recalibration. There's no moment to, you know,
sort of step back and ask if the bid, you know,
still makes sense or if it aligns with your purchasing,
you know, decisions. And so this triggers a panic
response, a panic response, right? Not a buying
decision. The brain shifts from like a valuation
to complete survival mode. It's like bid now
or it's gone forever. And so that urgency just
overwhelms boundaries that might exist in much
calmer environments. Right. And then they also
kind of punish restraint. Right. Waiting, thinking
or trying to stay disciplined actually increases
the chances that you lose. So the system rewards
impulsivity and really just like penalizes intention.
And so over time, this kind of. it trains people
it conditions them to act faster and just think
less so you mentioned that you know you grew
up collecting so like growing up collecting like
this was not a thing you go to card shows right
and you just like like but so when this started
who started it like is this independent people
that are just buying something or is it now like
companies that are that are organizing these
these streams That's a great question. And it's
something that comes up a lot. People are like,
how did breaking come about? Honestly, I think
I don't know exactly who started it. I can't
tell you who the founding father was of break
culture or the pioneer. But it started out as
like a concept, right? You have these expensive
boxes. And this was probably around, I would
say like 2009, maybe early like 2010s. Where,
you know, you have these expensive boxes at the
time people were chasing, like, you know, rookie
LeBron James or maybe Kobe Bryant or, you know,
some of the players that were relevant and sought
after them. And so they just, you know, decided
like, hey, what if we came up with this concept
where people can share a box and buy into a portion
of it as opposed to having to buy the entire
box? Somebody came up with the idea. It was.
increasingly popular i would say over the span
of a decade and then like i said before when
the pandemic hit that was really when breaking
organically just caught steam and became again
a phenomenon and so these apps capitalized on
that momentum and so Whatnot was formed Fanatics
got involved they bought tops they um entered
sort of the hobby space i mean they were already
into collectibles it just sort of made sense
for them um from a business standpoint now there's
Fanatics Live which is a dedicated live streaming
platform just for card breaks there are a handful
of others eBay has one now it's called eBay Live
so it's quite literally everywhere uh but it
really happened you know organically i think
you know because of the pandemic and now it's
a mainstay it's it's the way people you know
purchase cards these days. Yeah. And I think
it's interesting before we jump on, before we
jumped on to record, we were kind of talking
about podcasts and you had mentioned Brian Hatch,
which is a good friend of mine. And it's interesting
because he did an episode where he talks about
what he considers a relapse because of his card
buying and very similar kind of what you were
talking about and how he kind of really connected
that with his own. recovery from gambling and
that behavior. And then you were talking about
how it correlated, right, with your own gambling
behavior. And of course, this is, it might look
like a different behavior, but it's still the
same kind of, it belongs in the same circle.
And it's interesting how just compulsion in general
sometimes can belong in the same circle. Like
I get people who reach out to me, not necessarily
for, because I work mainly in the women. you
know, with women in this space, like other things
like jewelry and very, very similar where they
spend so much time and money, like even bath
bombs. I had somebody reach out to me and I'm
not comparing what you're talking about to bath
bombs. I'm just comparing kind of the compulsiveness
of like how things can in collecting. And so
they would do these auctions of these bath bombs
and you would dissolve the bath bomb. And there
could be, I know Adam's like, what? There could
be the potential. of a real jewelry piece like
a real like uh sapphire ring in the thing so
it's like you but this this particular woman
who reached out she had spent thousands of dollars
trying to get like it's mostly costume jewelry
but then you get like a really real gemstone
ring right and but you but she was on like tech
talk and Facebook forums, and she was spending
her paycheck on the compulsiveness of this thing.
And she was like, I don't fit in anywhere. I
don't know where to go. That's why I'm reaching
out to you. And it just really hit me that when
you said you came into this space, because I
imagine just hobby stuff in general always kind
of feels safe. Oh, that's a hobby, right? Or
that's something. And so it's like when you go
and the hobby turns into harm. not being able
to find spaces that meet those needs is a very
real thing. Yeah, Christina, you're absolutely
on point, right? People love the element of excitement
and chance because it taps into something very
human, right? We're talking about anticipation
and possibility and, you know, this brief escape
from reality, from certainty, right? And so that
moment before the outcome lands is is just really
powerful and it's where the hope and the potential
and the anticipation really you know thrive and
um you know i think it's like the imagination
sort of filling the gap in a way and so the unknown
creates this emotional lift even if the result
result itself is is smaller fleeting right our
brains are just wired to respond to this you
know maybe Right. The possibility that something
special could happen that this time could be
different. Right. And so I think excitement and
chance also kind of compress time. They pull
us fully into the moment, you know, and it kind
of dulls some of the harder parts of life like
stress or boredom or doubt or depression or,
you know, loneliness. Right. And for a few seconds,
like the world narrows to. whatever outcome you're
seeking. And that focus can feel like relief,
which is why I think it's so compelling and why
it shows up in so many different places, right?
The games and the sports and the entertainment
and the collecting and the bath bombs. I mean,
the key distinction isn't whether excitement
and chance are, you know, inherently good or
bad. It's how often they're used, how fast they
repeat and whether they're supported by somebody's
boundaries. Right. Without friction or the opportunity
to take a step back, pause and reflect, take
personal inventory. What starts as fun can can
very quickly shift into something that just runs
on compulsion instead of like real choice, real
intention. You know, people don't love chance
because they want to lose control. They love
it because it's just it offers like that that
possibility, that excitement. And, you know,
I think the work is just making sure, you know,
people are aware of this. Right. So that they
don't quietly become dependent on it because
it can happen without you even realizing. And
that's a huge part of this. A lot of these activities
like something as, you know, something as small
as buying a bath bomb on TikTok can very quickly
sort of manifest into. a real addiction. And
I'm not saying that applies to every single person,
but there are a lot of people that, you know,
they find themselves in a situation where they
didn't think that they were addicted or that
they have had an addictive personality. And next
thing they knew, all their savings is gone. Their
lives are being compromised. You know, divorce
is on the table. They're having to sell their
belongings or their homes. They're looking at
bankruptcy. These are real life stories that
we see every single week in our peer support
meetings over cardboard, right? It's one thing
to lose yourself in something like gambling,
which has been around forever, where like, you
know, you hear the story is as old as time. Somebody,
you know, goes on tilt and throws away everything
on, you know, blackjack or through sports betting.
But like, we're talking about opening up packs
of Pokemon cards, right? Things that children.
are involved with. And that in itself creates
a sense of guilt and shame. People have a really
hard time admitting they have a problem with
something like that because they don't want to
look in the mirror and say, wow, I became addicted
to a toy, right? So it's all about just spreading
positive awareness, letting people know that
there are other people out there just like you
who are experiencing these very problems. And
rather than struggling alone in isolation, you
can heal in community. And so that's why this
space is so important. Yeah, we know all about
that. Yeah, we do. So I want to talk about the
warning signs that you've observed in your time.
But also, I want to go back. You alluded to it.
If you don't mind, tell us a little bit about...
your experience both with this and with your
gambling and you said that they kind of intersected
and at what point did you realize oh like this
this might be an actual problem yeah it was around
um the fall of 2022 where right before i got
married i got married in november of 2022 actually
on my birthday um so Quick sidebar, I no longer
get to celebrate my birthday. It's been replaced
by my anniversary. She ensured that you would
never forget the anniversary. That's exactly
right. Smart lady. Brilliant. Anyway, around
that time, I was living life in the fast lane.
I was gambling. I was winning. I had a ton of
money that I was making on the side from. playing
live blackjack. And, you know, I was also doing
well in my career. So I felt this sense of entitlement,
I felt like, you know, I had earned the right
to buy nice things and shower myself with gifts.
And, you know, given the fact that I've always
been kind of a compulsive person, in terms of,
you know, just becoming overly excited or overly
passionate about specific things. You know, at
one point in my 20s, I had over 500 pairs of
sneakers. No single person should ever own that
many sneakers. But I was so, you know, enthralled
by sneaker collecting, I just lost myself. And
so that was an issue in itself. But again, fast
forward to 2022, I was gambling, but I was also
joining these high -end breaks and buying. you
know, these expensive boxes for myself on live
streams and just sort of, it became a cycle where
I would buy into, let's say a $2 ,500 break.
I then feel like I needed to recoup that money,
whether I hit a card, work that or not. And so
I would hop onto live blackjack on one of the
apps, win the money back that way. And I wasn't
the type of gambler that would, you know, be
able to lose a couple hundred bucks and then
walk away anytime i started to lose i would double
down and it would just you know happen over and
over again where i put myself in these situations
where i'd run out of money and you know a particular
sitting i'd lose thousands of dollars upwards
of ten thousand dollars and there were times
where i would just keep going until everything
was just completely gone and you know i hit these
rock bottom moments throughout my uh you know,
the throes of my addiction where finally it came
to a halt and I realized that I had a serious
problem. It was actually a weekend in April of
2023 where my wife was on a bachelorette party
and I just went like balls to the wall, all out,
a 48 hour bender where I just was nonstop gambling.
And I lost more money than I had ever lost in
one particular sitting. we don't necessarily
like to talk about the amounts you know it's
kind of arbitrary everybody's financial situation
is different different amounts affect different
people but i could tell you it was a lot of money
and so i thought it was all over that that i
think it was like a friday morning at 6 a .m
where i had basically gambled away a last dollar
to my name i had extended into you know um uh
cash advances through credit cards and maxed
out credit cards just you know to try to um fuel
the cycle and it did not end well and so i called
my dad just in this like state of panic and um
he came scoop me up from my apartment in jersey
city where i was living at the time and i was
quite literally paralyzed to the recliner in
their living room for that entire weekend just
anticipating what I was going to tell my wife
when she got home from this trip that following
Monday. And it was hell. I was beside myself.
I didn't know what to do. And so at that point,
you know, my parents helped me in finding an
outpatient facility here in New Jersey called
Right Choice Recovery. And I got into that program.
I self -excluded. I stopped gambling. You know,
I started to slowly pick back the pieces. But
the reality is you can't self -exclude from collecting
or from buying, right? Unless somebody cuts you
off completely financially or you turn over your
finances to a loved one, right? And so I was
still buying the cards. I was still joining breaks
and I wasn't really getting better. It just seemed
like I was getting better because I was going
to this outpatient facility and going to GA meetings
and things of that nature. And so it really just
got to a point where I decided so many people
are being affected the same way that I am. I
need to create a space that I wish existed when
I was really at the lowest of my lows. And so
that's how Collectors MD was born. I'm just,
I'm smiling because, you know, the first three
quarters of that sentence is exactly how I felt
after, you know, once I entered recovery. So
that's awesome. Same. I wasn't seeing myself
in the rooms and I wasn't hearing, I wasn't seeing
women experiences in the room. So it was like
very much of, let me try and create a space where
I feel welcomed and where my story can be somebody
else's story. You know what I mean? Like, even
though. I think anybody who struggled with addiction,
we can all connect on this level of it's taken
over our life. It's rewired those pathways in
our brain to, to focus on the, the reward center,
everything like that. We can all focus on like
those types of things, but there are so many
individual parts of our story that sometimes
is more relatable to women or more relatable
to men or more relatable to somebody who's in
the collectible world. Right? Like, and so I
think. spaces that match our own experiences
are very very helpful along with just broadening
out and being curious about other people's experiences
as well just like this is a fascinating conversation
for me because like yeah i knew Hatch's story
and kind of what he struggled with but i don't
think i really understood it you know and kind
of the connectedness and the way that you're
explaining it really opens that up absolutely
Yeah, you brought up some really great points
there, Christina. And there is one other component
that I'd be remiss not to share where it really
came full circle for me. And so while I was working
on building Collectors MD, let's say about six
months ago, I went back to Right Choice Recovery
to connect with the owner, Rob Sackowitz. And
let him know what I was doing, really, you know,
just taking my addiction and sort of turning
it on its head to help other people. Really,
that's step 12 of the 12 -step program is paying
it forward and, you know, helping other people
who are suffering with compulsive gambling overcome
their addiction too. And so, you know, we were
talking about ways we could potentially collaborate.
And, you know, after meeting with him several
times, he was like, you know what? I'd really
love for you to... lead some group meetings here
if you're open to it. And so since September
of last year, I've been running two meetings,
Monday and Tuesday nights at Right Choice Recovery,
leading, you know, groups for around gambling
addiction. And so it's kind of like a full circle
moment going from being a client there to now,
you know, leading group meetings. And again,
it's just, I've dedicated my life, my career
to this journey, to this world where I just,
feel this unrelenting urgency to grow Collectors MD,
to help spread the message, not to, you know,
make money or, you know, gain followers or grow
like a company or a brand, but more so because
there are tens of thousands of people struggling
with this type of addiction that have zero idea
that real tools, resources, and support are available
for free. Yeah, so we're not people who bash
industry or whatever, but I'm curious where the
exploitation happens on this side of the collectibles
industry. Like, where are the things that really,
like, we can name the things on the gambling
side where it's obvious, right? So kind of give
us some ideas of what that looks like on the
collectible side and how they kind of compare.
You know, collecting, I was talking about this
before. Collecting used to be slow. You know,
you would save up. You would go to a local card
shop. You would trade cards or, you know, items
with your friends. And, you know, maybe you would
buy a card or two here and there. Today, collecting
happens online in real time with constant notifications,
instant payments, and live auctions running around
the clock, right? The hobby didn't. just move
online, it adopted the same mechanics used in
gambling, gaming, and social media. And so what
that means in plain terms is this. People are
no longer just collecting. They're chasing, they're
reacting, they're spending faster and more often
than they plan to. Sometimes without even realizing
how far it's gone until it's too late and real
damage has been done. And so, you know, Collectors MD
exists to say something very simple and very
important. collecting itself isn't the problem
it's the way the modern system is built so we
focus on three things the first thing is education
we want people to understand why the hobby feels
so you know hard to control now the speed and
the randomness and the you might win big this
time type of feeling and the constant 24 7 access
all these things push the brain into impulse
mode and once people start to understand that
the shame starts to lift and clarity really comes
back. The second is support. We run weekly peer
support meetings for collectors who feel stuck,
overwhelmed, or out of control. You know, some
people do want to stay in the hobby, but with
structure and boundaries. Others need distance
from it entirely. And so we make room for both
lanes, intentional collecting and abstinence.
Intentional collecting is basically our version
of harm reduction. And then third, accountability
and prevention. We work with platforms, shops,
and community leaders to talk about real guardrails,
things like, you know, age protections and moderation
and transparency and slowing systems down so
that fewer people are getting hurt in the first
place. And so the key idea is that, you know,
people shouldn't have to hit rock bottom to realize
something is off, something is wrong. So I want
to illustrate to you some of the stuff that is
going on in the hobby. And again, I say this,
I want to preface by saying Collectors MD, we're
not a watchdog organization. We're not here to
call out manufacturers, platforms, individuals,
breakers who are doing things maliciously or
are preying on collectors or using exploitative
messaging. However, it is important to address
some of these things. So again, as part of that
educating, that awareness, people have a better
idea, a better sense of what's really going on
behind the scenes. And so there are a few platforms
and manufacturers that really take a page out
of the playbook of traditional gambling. And
so I'm not going to say the platform that sent
this message out to people. For those in the
hobby, in the collecting world, they might be
able to connect the dots. But I'm just going
to read you a marketing message that I received
from one of these hobby platforms. Hey, it's
the guy that does all the emails at said platform.
You probably think this is some automated email
trying to get you to come back and rip a slab
pack, huh? Well, you're absolutely right. Except
I wrote this email myself with a bit of help
from ChatGPT. I wanted to give you a 25 % discount
to get you back into the action. Specifically
use the word action. The code will only work
on gold, ruby, emerald, diamond, or legendary
packs. It would be really cool if you came back
and got a pack so that I can tell my boss I'm
doing a good job. If you don't want to, it's
all good. I'll start updating my resume now.
Click here to rip a pack. Oh, wow. I mean, that
just makes me so... Like manipulation. Angry.
Oh, my God. I thought it was like... tongue in
cheek and somebody you know uh signed off on
that and was like yeah that's totally totally
fine totally kosher to send out to our entire
you know email listserv um are there any age
regulations though like no because i mean i can
see a kid reading that and like oh my gosh this
person's gonna lose their job if i don't do this
or whatever and so like like most of us can read
that for what it is right Yeah. I'm sorry. Can
we just take a moment to pause? Because I think
sharing my screen here would be monumental. Like,
I really think it would help paint this picture.
I literally don't think we can. Can we? There's
a share button on the bottom. Try. Try it. Click
it and see what it, see what it, yeah, because
there is a share button. So. There we go. Oh,
look at that. There we go. Look at that. He's
teaching us something here. Yeah, go ahead. This
is a first on Evive Live. Here we go. Yeah, it
is. So it's Big Justice and AJ. AJ and Big Justice.
Oh, I hate these guys so much. They are brand
ambassadors for the brand I was talking about.
And at this point, I'm just going to go ahead
and show you. But yeah, they're exploiting the
child to promote this product. I mean, it's all
over. You can see here, here. I'll just show
the most recent one. to tell us which one is
the best. First Emerald Pack, here we go. Patrick
Bell with the red shiver. PSA 10. We got him
a Holmes right from the start. I'm not even joking.
This is a chase card. This was at the very top,
Dad. Wow. Oh, that's awesome. Color match. That
is a good first pack. One more Emerald. from
the elite series is that variation wow that is
sick rookie patrick mahomes and now the diamond
I mean, at least he's a good actor, I guess.
It feels scripted. Oh, yeah, I mean, it's...
So that happens, people can open virtual packs?
Yeah. You can get 20 % off your first part of
the Slap Pack purchase right now on Arena Club
by visiting arenaclub .com forward slash boom
and entering the code boom at checkout. Arena
Club gets a big boom! Why do I feel like I need
a shower? Like, that just felt gross. And that's
running rampant across the hobby. So that is
like a company then. So somebody's gone from...
Here's the saddest part about, and I'm only going
to call out Arena Club because they're, you know,
they're a huge part of the problem. I grew up
a diehard Yankee fan and Derek Jeter is one of
my favorite athletes of all time. Honestly, like
an idol to me. He is one of the co -owners of
Arena Club. And when that news came out, it really
just broke my heart because It made me realize
that this is so much bigger than anybody, you
know, ever fathomed it would become, right? Because
you have athletes and celebrities that are endorsing
this type of behavior without taking a moment
to pause and think like, I have a massive platform
and influence. Why don't I leverage that to help
people who really, you know, could use help?
You see the same thing with the traditional gambling
ads, all the celebrities endorsing these casinos.
The one caveat, though, is that with traditional
gambling, there's regulation and there's oversight.
And it's a part of the corporate responsibility
of these casinos and sportsbooks to provide tools
and resources, whether they want to or not, to
organizations or, you know, platforms like 800
Gambler and, you know, basically promote responsible
gambling. Right. That does not exist in. the
hobby environment whatsoever. There's zero regulation,
there's zero oversight, there's zero age gates,
there's zero guardrails. Anybody can just log
in, create an account, and just, you know, go
crazy on these repacks or joining breaks or whatever,
you know, whatever it is. And so kids are being
groomed and conditioned at such a young age that
this type of behavior is the norm, is socially
acceptable. I mean, you heard the kids say, like,
if Drake May wins the Super Bowl, This is a big
card. Now, I want to add one more note here.
When I first caught wind that they were creating
these ads, this was almost a year ago when I
first started Collectors MD, they were including
the value of the cards at the bottom of the screen.
So he'd like hit that card and it would say like,
you know, $500. And they had this ticker that
would show how much money they were up or down
based on their investment. And I left a comment
from the Collectors MD account saying something
along the lines of this is not okay. This is
conditioning children to think gambling is acceptable,
yada, yada. They stopped. I think that comment
got a couple hundred likes, a bunch of people
just supporting, endorsing the message. They
stopped doing it. And then on the following video
where they took that out, I commented again and
I said something along the lines of, you know,
glad to see that. this has been adjusted, but
still the message here is an issue. Anyway, AJ
and big justice and arena club liked the comments.
So, you know, I'm not going to sit here and say
that we were the reason why they stopped doing
that, but pretty, pretty. Yeah. It didn't hurt.
Yeah. We, I mean, I've, I have so many more questions,
but you know, we're, we're heading towards the
end here. Like a couple of like rapid fire things
real quick. Like, So where does the money go?
If, if I, if I don't get my team pulled, that
money just goes to the person who's running the
break. Yep. And, and so there's no like legalities
or they're not paying to, I mean, so Whatnot
requires, uh, the dealer, the, the breaker to
ship anything purchased. So a label is automatically
generated. If you don't hit any cards at all,
what they'll usually do. And I've seen, cases
where a completely empty package just shows up
at the door um but they'll take stacks of base
cards cards that are worthless that get thrown
in the garbage or donated and they just send
them to the individual so kind of a slap in the
face actually it's like it's like going on full
tilt losing a ton of money and then two weeks
later something shows up at your door to remind
you about it and then The other thing I had written
down was like, as far as like content creators,
like, like, like right now in gambling space,
like we have these YouTubers who, you know, have
all these sponsorships from the casinos and they're
not using their real money. Is that happening
in, in the hobby side of things where people
are starting to, you know, cause I know that
there's all these and I'm going to sound like
an old man, but like, you know, the discords
and the, and the things, you know, the people
are on Twitch and it's just them watching them
do other things, watching other people. You know
what I mean? Like, it's it's like you couldn't
imagine it's worse it's honestly worse than than
the gambling industry in terms of uh these influencers
that are opening boxes on stream this is just
like an opportunity for the manufacturers and
the platforms to get free ads right they send
them there's there's uh conspiracies that they
get at loaded boxes they open them up on screen
They hit the big card, and then the average collector
is seeing that and saying, wow, I want to hit
that card. So, yeah, it's a major problem, and
it's been going on for years. There are a lot
of watchdog creators, influencers that call out
this type of behavior all the time, but it's
not nearly as big in terms of the scale, the
number of people watching and following. compared
to like the number of individuals that are consuming
the content that's being called out. Yeah, it's
interesting because I was just filming a podcast
the other day and this kind of even reminds me
of what she was talking about on the social casino
side where she could go on these social platforms
like TikTok and Clapper and they would have these
live gambling sessions where you can... throw
money and, you know, they can gamble your number
or whatever, whatever the behavior is, or even
like pull tabs or like, and it's just so interesting
how social media has now, from what you're talking
about, from what she was talking about, from
what we see from influencers, just how much social
media is influencing. All of these different
spaces and really contributing to the harm and
the fact that there is no real regulation, there
is no like when we're talking about kids being,
you know, we know that in gaming kids are highly
shown gambling behaviors, skins in the game,
those types of things. And I certainly don't
want to talk about things I don't really know
that much about. But it's just really, really
interesting how even even in this space or all
these different spaces where social media really.
really impacts and really creates the space to
to experience more harm can we talk about that
for a second and then we'll we'll close out yeah
it's it's a great point i'm kids are so impressionable
and they're like sponges right they consume any
and everything around them and so when you have
these environments that you know on the surface
are are painted to seem normal like this is just
normal child behavior the biggest problem is
that the parents don't see it and i think the
industry kind of uses the whole childhood nostalgia
component to their advantage right because they
know that most parents are looking the other
way they're like oh yeah my kids just ripping
pokemon cards oh he's selling cards at a card
show or online he's learning how to you know
transact he's learning how to do business at
a young age it's actually a good thing When in
reality, they're just being conditioned through
influence, through social media, that this is
completely acceptable. Yeah, without any conversation
around the potential harms. And that's the thing,
too. It's like the kids are so much more technology
advanced. Like the kids coming up now just know
so much more. I mean, I was waiting for Adam
to say the Facebook. You know, these kids go
to the Facebook. Because that's, you know, that's
our age. It's just interesting how much we have
to stay ahead of that for the generations to
come and to be more aware of it. And it's just
like, and I know this sounds super Debbie Downer,
but it's like, what else can we fucking ruin,
right? Like, we're ruining social media. We're
ruining trading cards and collecting. Like, ah,
man, it's just so frustrating. What's the common
denominator, Adam? Yeah, it's this. It's this
and social media, right? It's just greed. Like
Derek Jeter, you really need to be the owner
of that. Right. I mean, oh, it's so, it's so,
it's so sad, but it brings me, let's, let's,
let's try to end on a high note. Let's come in,
let's come into the end. And Alyx, give us, give
us what gives, what gives, what gives you hope?
I want to show you, I want to show you one more
thing and maybe you can squeeze this in with
the email that I sent to Arena Club. And I apologize
if this is getting like choppy or confusing.
But again, I have to share this. This is really
important because it's another exploitative marketing
email that was sent out to customers around October.
We can't get in trouble for this, right? For
like showing all this stuff? No. Because I'm
not showing the name of the provider, but I'll
just say that they are the biggest in terms of...
having equity in the industry uh so this is the
email i personally received mind you i i stopped
buying on this platform you know a long time
ago i can't even access this account that they
sent this email to because i you know um i either
deleted it or i asked them to you know ban me
or whatever the case may be anyway it says you've
earned this an exclusive offer built for our
top collectors spend rip get rewarded from wednesday
october 22nd through Saturday, October 25th.
Keep in mind that's only three days. Spend at
least $10 ,000 on live breaks and you'll receive
$1 ,000 in rewards. That's for doing what you
already love. No opt -in needed, no hoops to
jump through. How it works, make purchases or
rips totaling $10 ,000 or more during the promotion
period. Check your order history to track your
progress. Receive your $1 ,000 reward code via
email on Monday, October 27th. Important. This
offer is exclusive to you as a recipient of this
email and is not transferable. All purchases
made during the promotional period will count
towards the offer. Orders made before or after
the promotional window will not count. So when
I first saw this and I saw the important, I'm
thinking to myself, please be a disclaimer. Please
be a disclaimer. Please be like a warning sign
or something. And of course it's not. Anyway,
who in their right mind is spending $10 ,000
on live breaks in three days? You know, Adam,
you laughed, but this is the norm. There are
people that spend upwards of $50 ,000 a night
on Whatnot. It just takes me back to the days
of like spending hundreds and hundreds and thousands
of dollars at a casino just to get a free air
fryer. Like that you could have gone to Walmart
and bought for 40 bucks. Like that's how that
math is math into me, right? The company that
sent that email also owns a casino and sports
book. So to my knowledge, what they did was.
they tapped into that marketing team and just
repurposed it right what's so funny to me too
is that everything that we've talked about today
the person then has to like resell that card
right it's not like they're winning money right
it's way more complicated than that it's yes
you're right it's not liquid at all um but yes
you the whole process is first you have to hit
the card and and we're talking about layers and
layers and gambling somebody recently called
it gambling inception uh which i really liked
because there's so many layers to actually finally
getting the card but then you get it and forget
about the card you hit it has to be in good condition
because if it's not in good condition it's not
going to grade well and if it doesn't grade well
you're not going to maximize your return on it
and the whole grading process takes It takes
weeks, sometimes months to get the card back
from PSA or Beckett or wherever. And then once
you finally do get it back, you now have to sell
it on a platform, whether it be eBay or Goldin
or Heritage or all these different auction houses,
or you go to a card show. But yes, it's a very,
very complicated process. And no, it is not liquid.
And what I always say is if you're in the hobby,
because you think it's an opportunity for you
to make money or win money, find another hobby.
Card collecting should be for people who are
passionate about card collecting, who enjoy the
cards, who enjoy the players, who enjoy, you
know, whatever category it is, if it's Pokemon
or Magic the Gathering, whatever it is. If you're
just in it because you think a Drake May rookie
card is going to sell better after they win the
Super Bowl on Sunday, find another hobby. knock
on wood yeah um yeah no Alyx this has been amazing
but really quick you just gotta tell us you got
we gotta end on a high note like based on the
last year of you building Collectors MD from
the ground up what are some things in the space
that gives you hope what gives me hope is the
support and partnerships that we've created within
the hobby not just on the recovery side you know
we've partnered with 800-GAMBLER and PGCC and
of course Evive and Gamban and open recovery
all these you know uh treatment centers and and
organizations that support us on the recovery
side within the traditional gambling space that's
incredible and i'm so grateful for that but within
the hobby we have a handful dozens of brands
that endorse our message And so we started a
movement, an initiative called Rip Responsibly.
And through Rip Responsibly, we're basically
spreading awareness around why it's important
to pause before you spend. Rip Responsibly, collect
responsibly, collect with intention, not compulsion.
These are all things that, mantras that we use.
And we've had some of the biggest brands in the
hobby. back it and buy into what we're building.
And so we actually have a whole program where
you could buy co -branded mats with your hobby
logo along with Collectors MD with the
#RipResponsibly. Those have been rolling out across
the hobby ecosystem. And my goal, my hope is
that as more and more hobby brands get behind
this and push this message forward, it will spread
like wildfire and it'll become a standard instead
of an option. Love that. Yeah. Love it. Thank
you so much. You really taught me a lot and I
really appreciate this conversation. Yeah, this
was great. Thanks so much for having me on. Any
opportunity to spread the message and just reach
more people that we can help, that's what this
is all about. Absolutely. Great. Thank you. All
right, Alyx. Thanks a lot. Thanks for being on
Evive Live. Thanks for having me.