What's up? It's Boston Card Hunter. I'm here
with my boy, Alyx. We are going to talk about
sports card breaking and whether it's gambling
or not. And Alyx is well positioned for this
discussion. I wouldn't even say debate because
we'd probably agree on most points because he
is the founder of Collectors MD and what Collectors MD
does. is provides an outlet for people who are
struggling with gambling problems related to
sports cards and breaking and they provide meetings
and that sort of thing and we're going to talk
about that as well we're going to debate just
all of this stuff like gambling breaking sports
cards Alyx welcome man Yeah. First off, Nick,
thank you so much for having me back on. It's
kind of wild thinking about when we first connected
almost a year ago, you were like literally one
of the first people to reach out to me. I think
literally on day one of Collectors MD and, you
know, without hesitation. You invited me on the
show. And just a couple of weeks later, you know,
we had that conversation and it really served
as this springboard and, you know, allowed me
to kind of come out of my shell a little bit
and speak honestly and openly about a lot of
the struggles. And, you know, it was it was one
of the first spaces where I could really. have
this sort of conversation. So fast forward a
year and Collectors MD has grown into this movement,
you know, hosting weekly peer support meetings,
putting out content. And, you know, it's been
a rocket ship. So I can't thank you enough for
your support. Cool, cool, cool. Well, I'm going
to try. I'm getting a lot of feedback that I'm
a New Englander and a Bostonian and I interrupt
a lot. So I'm going to try not to interrupt you
today. That's all right. I can't help it. All
right. I can't help it. All right. First thing
is sports card breaking, actually gambling and
or people just being dramatic about it. Yeah,
I think the problem is that people hear the buzzword
gambling and immediately just assume accusation.
like you're calling someone reckless or irresponsible
right and that's not what it is this is about
the mechanics not just the morality of it all
so breaking really sits in this gray area you're
paying money for a randomized outcome where chance
determines the value and the emotional high is
tied to whether you hit or miss so That's not
traditional collecting. That's not what collecting
looked like when I was growing up, when you were
growing up. But it's also not a slot machine
either. It's something sort of in between. And
pretending that it isn't doesn't protect anyone.
Some people can engage with that casually and
just walk away and be totally fine losing out.
And unfortunately, others just can't. And the
fact that different people experience the whole...
activity differently doesn't mean the mechanism
isn't real. It just means risk isn't evenly distributed.
So calling this out isn't being dramatic. It's
being honest about the product actually functioning
or how it functions and how the human brain is
wired and how it works. Let's talk about the
human brain, because I think that's a really
interesting point there. I do wonder if it isn't
gambling or if it is gambling. Does this trigger
the same dopamine cycle as blackjack or slots,
do you think? Yeah, so dopamine doesn't care
what label, you know, labels look like, right?
It doesn't care if you label yourself an addict
or a degenerate. It responds to patterns. And
live breaks are built on things like anticipation,
suspense, the near miss, the social reinforcement.
the countdown timers, the instant gratification,
the instant feedback. Those are the exact ingredients,
the exact formula that casinos use because they
reliably light up the reward system. And the
spike actually happens before the card is revealed,
not after, which is a common misconception. And
that's why people end up chasing, right? One
more break or one more box, one more rip, even
after. you know, going through a bad run. And,
you know, dopamine isn't about enjoyment. It's
about the pursuit, the chase, as we call it in
the hobby. And it teaches your brain that relief
is just one action away. So when people say something
like, you know, it's just sports cards, it's
a childhood hobby, they're skipping the part
where the nervous system is being trained in
real time. This isn't a willpower issue. It's
literally brain chemistry. And the industry,
whether intentionally or not, is using those
mechanics to their advantage to ultimately fill
their pockets at the expense of a lot of customers.
Yeah, I did consulting in my past life for a
lot of different companies, everything from South
American governments to consumer companies. One
of them was a casino. And you guys would not
believe how optimized that experience is. It's
like a department store. I mean, everybody knows
you can't find your way out of a casino. You
don't know what time of day it is at a casino.
They've got it engineered. The pans that are
at slot machines, those things are engineered
to create a very specific sound. Like they actually
will, you know, like cater the sound to you to
try to get more like you're winning. Even if
it's just nickels hitting that tin and it sounds
amazing. There is scents. People have actually
tested aromas in casinos. There's a reason there
are drinks. Breaking is a little bit different,
but you have to always just look around at how
breaking has evolved to keep you as a captor.
Right. And that's that's kind of the next question,
you know. There are some breakers, I think, who
do it right. I'm not going to name anybody today.
There are some who do it right. There are some
who are more predatory. It's a predatory scale,
I guess, right? And some are high on the predatory
scale and some are very low and doing it right.
And then there's like everything in between.
And it depends on the product too and stuff like
that. But do you think... That there's lies breakers
tell themselves like, you know, hey, there's
some skill to this. You know, you need to know
a checklist. You need to know what team is popping
or do some research. Like, what do you think
are some of the lies breakers tell themselves?
Yeah. Why break anywhere else? My favorite line
in the hobby. Yeah. No, I mean, the most common
lie breakers tell themselves is, I'm just providing
entertainment. And look, I'm not saying, like
you just said, Nick, every breaker or not every
breaker is evil. or a bad actor. But that phrase,
you know, we're just providing entertainment,
it can become a shield of sorts. Because if you
call it entertainment, you don't have to sit
with the reality that you're essentially operating
a high speed, variable reward system where the
customer pays for uncertainty, and it's essentially
chasing upside. A lot of breakers, I think, are,
you know, kind of in denial about what they really
are in this ecosystem. You know, they're not
just personalities. They're not just rippers.
They're not just breakers. They're dealers. They
are the distribution point. They're the ones
pulling the lever over and over on behalf of
the audience, on behalf of the customers with
hype, urgency, the countdown timers, the sudden
death auctions, the wheel spins, and using language
like, you know, last call or, you know, one more
or you're due or, you know, we're heating up.
Like, that's not neutral language. That's behavioral
influence. Yeah, this is holding, too. Oh, I'm
sorry. I interrupted and I said I wouldn't interrupt.
You're good. You're good. I think, you know,
the lie, like, we're calling it a lie here. It's
not always intentional. It's, you know, it's
a product of this system. And so... because of
that it's psychological because the moment a
breaker admits and says something like to them
to themselves or to their you know internal team
you know i'm basically running a mini casino
on a phone the next question is you know brutal
what responsibility do i have for the downstream
damage so instead they tell themselves you know
they chose it they being the customer or it's
their money i'm not forcing anyone i'm just opening
product and on paper yeah that is true but in
real life The breaker is also shaping the environment
that makes impulsive decisions a lot easier,
a lot more frictionless. And for some people,
that environment doesn't just cost them money.
It costs them relationships, mental health, self
-worth, sleep, peace of mind. So, yeah, the most
common line is, you know, the common lie is I'm
just an entertainer because the truth is like,
you know, a lot heavier than that. They're the
operators of a system that can really hurt people,
even if it was never intentional. Yeah, and I
want to pause here for a second before the next
question, just let you guys know, there's a reason
Alyx founded this company. We didn't get into
that in the beginning. It's a long story, and
I think we'll sprinkle it in through these questions,
especially the next one. Alyx has actually experienced
this personally, some of these challenges being
on the other end of it. It's funny, I did a video
on here a couple of days ago about blame. It's
so interesting. It's like, do you blame yourself
or do you blame the system? The answer really
is both, you know, there's accountability both
ways, but you know, what do you think, and you've
experienced this, so you can actually talk to
this personally, but at what point does having
fun in the hobby cross the line into addiction?
Yeah. So I, like you said, Nick, I learned this
the hard way, but it really crosses the line
when the hobby stops being additive, like adding
value as an additional layer of your lifestyle
and it starts becoming regulatory where it's
like, The focal point every day, you know, your
plans, your agenda, your work, your family, everything
revolves around it. And that's happening more
and more. And so when breaking becomes how you
deal with things like stress, boredom, loneliness,
anxiety, depression, frustration, when it becomes
really emotional management instead of this form
of entertainment, which is what it should be,
the relationship with collecting, with the hobby.
starts to shift. And that's exactly what happened
with me. You know, another big signal is what
happens when you try to stop. If pausing creates
this sort of agitation or restlessness or fear,
that's, you know, not about missing out on the
fun and excitement. That's what we call dependence,
right? Addiction isn't defined by how much you
spend. It's defined by why you spend and what
it's costing you emotionally, financially, and
relationally. So, yeah, I mean, we can get into
more of my lived experience as we as we progress
here. But yeah, I saw it firsthand. And there's
so many other people that are struggling with
the exact same thing that have zero idea that
there are resources out there that can help them.
All right, we'll get into the resources towards
the end of this. guys because i i never like
to present a problem without a solution i think
that's just a terrible way to go through life
is to just point out problems without solutions
so we we will take some steps at the end here
like maybe you're watching this and you're like
oh crap maybe i am addicted maybe you think this
is all stupid and he's like an industry plant
or something like that, which, by the way, I
assure you he's not because we talked on day
one. But I think maybe you want some help at
the end and I will make sure he has time to share
that. But so let's say you do want to help somebody.
What are some of the red flags a spouse or family
member can watch out for? Yeah, this is a really
important one because, again, this hobby, this
idea of collecting, especially with cards, sports
cards, Pokemon cards, what's really considered
juvenile. by the outside looking in, people don't
really recognize it as a problem. So a lot of
what happens right off the bat is secrecy. Secrecy
is usually the first one. The hiding the purchases,
the minimizing costs, the lying by omission,
the mood swings that track directly with breaks
or box openings or eBay purchases. It's really
financial stress without clear expectations.
We'll also see a lot of, you know, defensiveness,
irritability, just when being questioned, like,
hey, why you been on your phone for so long?
Or like, you know, you didn't go to bed last
night till two or three in the morning. Like,
what were you doing? Right. And then people justify,
they make justifications to make themselves feel
better. They say things like, I deserve this,
or it'll even out, or you just don't understand
the hobby. And so addiction doesn't show up as
like. chaos at first it shows up as confidence
wrapped around avoidance and the longer it stays
unchallenged or unchecked the harder it can become
to sort of take a step back unwind or you know
like we were talking about before rewire the
brain yeah i know um one of my degrees is psychology
and uh you know we talk you know, a lot of the
coursework was around addiction is very difficult
to cure. You have to actually parlay that. You
have to change the addiction into something that
doesn't hurt you as much. And so a lot of the
popular choices are religion, fitness, music,
you know, stuff like that. Because it's hard
to just turn a light switch off. You need to
turn something else on to take the brunt of that
emotion. So, you know, And people do have a lot
of success as long as they find something else
to replace that addiction. It's very interesting.
The whole thing's interesting. Yeah, I was a
psychology minor in college. And what's interesting
is I was in advertising sales for 13, 14 years
before I started Collectors MD and never really
had the opportunity to apply some of what I learned
in college. Granted, it's been a long time. But
yeah, some of this stuff is really, really interesting
how the human brain works. Right. You know, I
guess I have a different view on this because
I live sort of like a libertarian, but like,
you know, do breakers and platforms have a moral
responsibility to protect people or is this just
personal accountability? Yeah, this is one that
comes up all the time. Right. Especially, you
know, people in the comments, the naysayers,
the folks that are like, you know, you're an
adult, you know, just just make an adult decision.
Just stop. If you're doing something harmful,
not just to you, but those around you, stop the
behavior. So it's really both. It's always both.
Individuals are 100 % responsible for their choices,
especially adults. That doesn't go away. But
the systems are designed around things like urgency
and scarcity and constant access. And so those
things don't get to pretend to be neutral. Platforms
know exactly what drives engagement. They have
the best of the best marketing teams putting
together these promo messages and the product
itself and how to market it in a way that will
pull the heartstrings of collectors. It's not
by coincidence. And so breakers also know exactly
how to hype any product. They understand how
hype influences behavior. And when design...
you know, choices, intentionally reduce friction
and increase impulse. This whole idea of responsibility
doesn't just go away just because the transaction
is optional. We can ask people to be accountable
and ask systems to stop pretending they don't
shape outcomes at the same time. They can coexist.
That's not anti -business. That's not anti -hobby.
That's just having a mature adult conversation.
Well, it's like, I don't know, alcohol, right?
Like you have kids and If you're a good parent,
you talk to them about, you know, you're going
to go to college, you're going to high school,
parties, things are going to happen. This is
how you can be responsible, right? Don't drink
15 beers your first day, you know, something
like that. And there's a little bit of accountability.
Watch where your kids go. Make sure they're not,
I don't know, drinking six packs in the basement
or something like that. But also, you know, you
don't want that alcohol company like... catering
to kids you know like advertising and kids commercials
which obviously isn't allowed and it might seem
crazy but back in the day cigarettes and stuff
were in sports illustrated and and things like
that so it is it's always both and it always
will be both with any activity like that um so
yeah it's a good take on it now have you have
you seen somebody personally lose their life
savings through breaking or have you heard any
stories like that Yes. So this none of this is
theory for me. And this is where we can come
back a little bit to my lived experience. I didn't
wake up one day and just lose everything in like
one dramatic moment or, you know, because of
one break or one tilt session at the casino.
It really happened slowly. And, you know, it
was like one break, one rip, one purchase at
a time. And, you know, it wasn't like I wasn't
thinking like I felt like I was using logic,
you know, but I was justifying. I was always
believing that that next hit, that next big card
would fix the last. And it happened. So there
was that false sense of hope. There was an illusion,
right? Because there were times where I hit a
massive card and was able to sell it for five
figures and then recoup a lot of my losses. But
instead of just stopping, I would just keep going.
And so I would tell myself that I was in control.
I was in the driver's seat until I just wasn't.
And so watching money disappear while convincing
myself it made sense is a feeling I wouldn't
wish on anyone. And so beyond myself, now every
week in our peer support meetings, we hear these
anonymous versions of the same story. People
who chase losses. People who hid debt from spouses.
People who didn't realize how far it went until
the damage was already done. People who have
lost everything because of sports cards. Not
just their life savings, but their homes, their
cars, their spouses, their kids, their jobs.
These aren't rare horror stories anymore. They're
patterns. And pretending that they don't exist
doesn't protect the hobby. It protects denial.
Yeah, I think, to be fair, I've not as many,
but I have heard story, bad stories for collectors
too. They just like buy stuff that, you know,
they just, I don't know. They bought something
for no reason, some prospect or whatever, and
it doesn't pan out. They lose a ton of money.
You can lose money that way too. Absolutely.
And maybe they don't even intend to flip, but
they all of a sudden now they have an illiquid
asset. That's tied up a lot of money and that
can cause stress to the whole, the whole industry.
It's just so fascinating. Which leads to this,
you know, what do you think is more dangerous?
You got a casino, a brick and mortar casino.
Now, I'm aware that you can place bets on your
phones now. I did myself for the Super Bowl.
Or a phone in your pocket with Whatnot notifications.
Yeah, so a brick and mortar casino, it has walls,
right? You have to physically get in a car and
make the concerted effort to drive to a physical
destination. And so because of that, there's
a sense of physical friction. You have to go
through several steps in order to get to the
table, right? Your phone doesn't have any of
that. It follows you everywhere into work, into
bed, into moments of vulnerability. And so these
push notifications manufacture this sense of
urgency. They collapse, you know, the space between
impulse and action. And so when access is just.
24 -7, constant, in your face, that opportunity
to pause and reflect just completely disappears.
And without being able to pause and reflect,
even the smartest, most disciplined people can
end up making decisions they would have never
made otherwise. So that's really the inherent
risk. Yeah, you know, casinos post very clearly.
You can go look up roulette odds, house advantage
in five seconds. You can just Google that or
chat to you or whatever. Same thing with roulette.
Poker is a bit more of a game of skill. So, you
know, obviously there's a rake there at the casino.
And I feel like I'm a half intelligent guy. I
haven't really, I've broken a couple of times
just for fun. I don't fully understand the odds
of serial number breaks and pick your player,
pick your team breaks. I can't. I can't get that
in my head in five seconds. Now, yeah, if I sat
down with a pad and was like, you know, I spent
like a couple of days on it, I could probably
come up with the VIG. But I have spoken to breakers
about their margins and some are quite honest.
Some say 20%. I think the repackers are making
80 % in my opinion. But I don't know. It's like
a societal thing, right? It all changed in, I
hate to go all sociology on this, but in 2007.
The iPhone came out, man. And a lot of things
changed. One funny graph I like to show people
is the iPhone release and the iPhone usage. It's
a curve going like this. And then another one
I like to show is hemorrhoid use. Googling hemorrhoids
and usage. It's the exact same curve because
everybody's sitting with their phone in the bathrooms
or they're hooked to their phones. And I bet
you there's probably correlations with accidents.
and texting and, um, a hundred percent, we've
just turned into cyborgs and, uh, we're not meant
to be a hive mind like that. We're primates,
you know? Yeah. Just, just to piggyback off that,
Nick, think about where we are in today's day
and age with technology, with smartphones, with
access now, AI being on the cutting edge of,
of everything. Yeah. What is the world going
to look like? in five years from now, in 10 years
from now, in 20 years from now, right? I firmly
believe that technology, now that AI especially
is involved, is just going to continue to expand
at an exponential rate. Well, let's talk about
that. Yeah, what kind of impact does that have
on the hobby? Let's talk about the world. We'll
talk about the hobby in five years. I think AI
is going to be the end of society. I mean, I
have a lot of people agree. I've lived through
a lot of the Internet 1 .0, 2 .0 social media.
I've never seen anything like this. I've met
people that literally don't think for themselves
at all. There's somebody I won't name him on
IG, but he's got over 10 ,000 followers. Every
single thing he does is AI. When he DMs you,
it's AI. And when he has a conversation, it's
AI. And I am. I am actually worried about our
ability to critically think going forward. And
man, it's going to be interesting. But then people
probably said that about the car, the train,
the nuclear bomb, you know, everything else.
But sports cards. Right. Like if you're using
AI, that's not cheating. I think if you're using
it to, you know, be more efficient, to help you.
with certain activities, operations, whether
it be work -related, personal, you're more or
less just taking advantage of the technologies
that are available to you. The same way people
started using typewriters back in the day instead
of writing with a pen. It's more efficient. And
so if you use it correctly, if you use it the
appropriate way, then... That's fantastic. But
if, yeah, to your point, if you're just using
it for quite literally everything and no longer
putting together your own thoughts or words or
opinions or beliefs, I mean, you know, it's subjective.
It's not healthy. It's not healthy. So what do
you think the hobby looks like in five years
if this really isn't kept in check and people
continue to have problems like you've outlined?
You know, what do you think our industry looks
like? Yeah, so I think burnout, the burnout that
we're seeing across the board, just starts to
accelerate more. You know, the trust erodes.
The more people join breaks and leave, they end
up just walking away, but not just, you know,
with their tail between their legs. They're ashamed
and they're feeling all of these different emotions,
right? And so I think this sense of churn. that
we're seeing across these platforms will eventually
slow down and the hobby will end up in a really
dark place if we don't start to make proactive
changes. And so I also think that regulation
will eventually come. I don't know when that
will be, but if we, again, aren't proactive,
it's not going to be thoughtful or hobby friendly.
It's going to be reactive to the harm that's
being done. And so. Yeah. And then like even
worse than that, if nothing changes publicly,
if there is no regulation and the damage just
ends up staying hidden, you know, people will
disappear while everybody, you know, in the industry
who are sort of on the other side, breakers,
platforms, manufacturers just sort of tell themselves
that it's all it's all fine. And so, yeah, like
hobbies don't collapse from criticism. They collapse
from denial. And addressing this doesn't weaken
the hobby. It's really the only way it survives
long term. And just to be clear, this isn't about
being anti -hobby or pessimistic. It's actually
the opposite. This is just realism rooted in
real care, real passion. I really genuinely care
about the hobby. And we want the hobby to survive
long -term. We want it to be healthy, sustainable,
and something that people can actually participate
in without quietly hurting or losing themselves.
And not just adults, kids too. Because if we
continue to normalize a lot of this unchecked
hype, a lot of the behavior around urgency and
FOMO and the lack of guardrails, we're teaching
this next generation that risk without reflection
is just part of the fun. It's just... par for
the course so real reform and real accountability
aren't threats to the hobby they're how it grows
up they're how it earns trust you know and protects
people and build something that's meaningful
and and lasts so if we actually love this space
then pretending everything is just fine isn't
you know um loyalty it's it's avoidance so yeah
i mean if we um If we don't keep this in check,
I'm going to be a little bit more grim here.
I'm pretty good at forecasting industries. I
did that for a living for a while. I'd say in
five years, if this doesn't get under control,
you're going to see two -thirds of breakers go
out of business. And you'll see that last third
consolidate into a few big companies that will
always be here. And that's going to change things
a lot. It's going to change the liquidity of
the slabs you're sitting on. It's going to change.
The repack companies, it's going to change everything
because what's going to happen is, you know,
people are just going to smoke 200 bucks and
they could be like, what did I get for this?
And then even worse, you're going to have 16
year olds doing it. That'll be the first regulation
that comes. We're going to see some state. There's
just too many lawsuits going on. There's one
for Whatnot right now in Utah. You'll see an
age restriction in some state and then Whatnot.
It's just once they're forced to do it in one
state, they'll just do it everywhere. And then
everybody else will do it. And that's probably
a good thing, but I don't know. We'll see, man.
We shall see. So this is really gloomy, really
gloomy stuff. That's not, that's not what it's
intended to be, but it's, which is again, we're
being realistic. Yeah. Now, if you, if you're
watching this and you're like crap, okay, I'm
addicted to this or I'm, or. I'm trending towards
a problem. Or maybe you're totally fine and you're
just a collector and don't care, but you know
somebody who might be dealing with this stuff.
What are some of the resources that Collectors MD
has and how can you find them? Yeah, if any of
this resonates with you, it doesn't matter if
you're a breaker, you're on the industry side,
you're a collector, or you're just someone who's
starting to question their relationship with
the hobby. What we always say is you can't...
get through tough times in isolation, right?
You have to lean on your peers. You have to lean
on community. And so that's what Collectors MD
is here to offer. And so you can reach out anytime.
We have a website, collectorsmd .com. You can
email info at collectorsmd .com. We have social.
We're on pretty much every social platform. We
have tools and resources on our website. You
can see all of our social channels at bio .collectorsmd
.com. And beyond all that, we offer education,
open conversation, and peer support, right? Not
judgment, not mandates, and not, hey, you have
to quit in order to heal. Everybody's different.
Everybody has a different journey and a different
path. And so we meet folks where they are. So,
yeah, we just we have it's a place to slow things
down, be honest. And ultimately, our mantra is
collect with intention, not compulsion. I got
one last question for anybody that's still listening.
The brake mats that you've got. I know Rip Hamilton
uses one. I texted him and I said I was like,
actually quite proud of him for doing that. I
gave him a lot of crap in my early days, but
we get along well now. Danny's my boy. What do
you say about. People saying like, oh, well,
that just makes it okay. Like this break is just
going to put a break mat down and that makes
it okay. Yeah, it's a totally fair question.
And I get why people would ask that. The short
answer is, you know, the mat doesn't magically
make everything okay. What it does is it changes
the tone and it introduces things like an opportunity
to pause. It creates awareness. accountability,
maybe curiosity within a space that historically
hasn't had any of those things. So the whole
RIP responsibly message, and this is part of
our initiative that we've rolled out in the hobby.
And, you know, RIP Hamilton is not the only big
breaker that's leveraging the message to, you
know, ultimately create a healthier and safer
space for their customers. But using it isn't
like a hall pass. It's a signal. It says we acknowledge
this can be risky for some people and we're not
pretending otherwise. You know, what actually
matters is what comes with the mat. You know,
are there limits? Are those limits encouraged
or are they ignored? Is language responsible
or hype driven? Are people pressured to chase
or supported to, you know, pause, slow down and,
you know, really like make purchases intentionally?
Is there transparency when someone says? I need
to step away. So the mat alone, again, isn't
the solution. It's intended to be a layer of
awareness so that people can ultimately change
their behavior. And so we've never claimed a
disclaimer solves everything. It's about harm
reduction, not harm denial. You can enjoy breaking.
You can enjoy collecting and be honest about
the risks. Those two things can coexist. So that's
the whole point of Rip Responsibly. I just had
a great idea for a follow -up episode. I am going
to get a behavioral psychologist that deals with
addiction on this channel. And I think that would
be dope because it may not, you may have no addiction
with sports cards whatsoever. And you just collect
wax from the eighties, but maybe you're addicted
to something else. You know what I mean? And
I actually think that's going to be a cool discussion.
So that's on my, that's on my, thanks to you.
That's all my checklist for today. Brilliant
idea. Alyx, this has been awesome, man. I appreciate
you always do always. give you a platform here,
you know, to talk to me and stuff like that.
Cause I love what you're doing. If you guys want
to hit him up, I've got his Instagram under his
name there. Feel free to DM him, check out the
website and jump on a meeting if you need it,
or at least tell somebody about it. But thanks.
Thanks so much, Nick. Appreciate you.