WEBVTT

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Hello and welcome to All in the Addicted Gambler's

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Podcast. My name is Brian and I have not placed

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a bet since July of 2014. However, some of you

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know that I did go down a route with some baseball

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cards a few years back. And that is relevant

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today because we're talking to Alyx from Collectors MD.

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Alyx is somebody with lived experience with gambling

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harm as well as... a collector who discovered

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that collecting can get a little like gambling

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and behaviors. And he's here to talk about his

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awesome, I mean, first one I know about, recovery

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group, recovery website, recovery ecosystem for

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not just card collectors, but collectors of all

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kinds. Correct, Alyx? That is correct. Collectors

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of all kinds. Alyx, thanks for doing this. How

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are you? Why don't you share a little bit about

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yourself and your background and how you got

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to... to create Collectors MD because it's crazy

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that I heard about it on a YouTube channel I

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watch. And then you emailed, not because I reached

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out, but because somebody else was like, oh,

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you should talk to Brian. Yeah, that is crazy

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how things work, especially on the internet.

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And we can get into a little bit more of that

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in a bit. But yeah, Brian, thanks so much for

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having me. For those of you who are not familiar

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with me, most of you probably aren't. My name

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is Alyx Effron. Um, I come from both sides of

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the conversation. I've been a lifelong, uh, collector,

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uh, of all things, sports cards, sneakers, memorabilia,

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um, jerseys, hats, you name it. I've, I've, uh,

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when I was a kid, you know, uh, there were these

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things called, are you talking about like figurines?

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Uh, I, I'm talking about like anything like now,

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what do they have? The Funko pops, but like back

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in the day, like when we were, younger it would

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have been like starting lineup figures i collected

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horror figures yeah like michael myers and stuff

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uh but i was just starting lineup figures did

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you ever get those no i don't think so there

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was a brand called mcfarlane mcfarlane oh yeah

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yeah they did some horror ones too yeah yeah

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they did like ultra sort of realistic uh figurines

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um sports players pop culture icons um characters

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and shows and movies so i got into that a little

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bit as like a you know teenager high schooler

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and then i kind of grew out of it my younger

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brother was really destructive and he ruined

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a lot of my things um so i kind of just like

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lost interest and focused on you know what was

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in the present but i had my funko pop um you

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know oh okay for sure uh maybe for like a year

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But yeah, you name it, I collected it. Watches

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was huge for me for a long time. Professionally,

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I've spent, well, I should say I'm a lifelong

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collector, but I've also lived through gambling

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addiction. I want to make that abundantly clear

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right off the bat. Professionally, I've spent

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years in marketing and brand development. And

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personally, I know the highs, the lows, and the

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consequences that can come with compulsive behavior.

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And so out of that mix, I started Collectors MD.

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And so what it is at its core, it's a support

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-based community for people in the card and collectibles

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hobby. And like you said, Brian, it could be

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any sort of... collectible vertical. People get

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hooked on any and everything these days. As we

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know, it can even be as simple as just compulsive

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spending, retail therapy, people who just can't

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stop ordering crap on eBay or Amazon. And so

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these people are quietly struggling with the

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same cycles that you see in gambling, things

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like chasing losses, chasing the next hit, losing

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track of time, money, and mental health. And

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so what we do is we host weekly peer support

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meetings, very similar to Gamblers Anonymous,

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but we also do quite a bit of other work. We

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create... daily content. So we have these things

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called daily reflections, which are essentially

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journal entries that allow people to sort of

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reflect and take a step back and reevaluate where

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they are in their collecting journey. We publish

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those every single day. We have a number of other

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series like our collector spotlight, which features

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a collector who collects with intention once

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a month. We also have three podcasts, The Collector's

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Compass behind the brakes and Collectors MD features

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where, you know, similar to what we're doing

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here, I've been doing kind of the podcast circuit

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over the last couple of months. And so I've been

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syndicating all of that content into one streamlined

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platform, which we're calling features. But but

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anyway, you know, we're doing a lot in this space

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and, you know, we have a growing network of therapists

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and recovery partners. We're going out our. um

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referral network uh and we're trying to create

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a space that um you know i wish had existed when

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i was stuck in these cycles you know where people

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can talk openly without shame and get real tools

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and resources um and a community around them

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right and the reason this matters is because

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the collecting world the hobby whatever you want

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to call it has shifted it used to be all about

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nostalgia you know building sets telling stories

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sharing stories it was legit collecting it was

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like getting and hanging on to right right and

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now it's turned into getting and flipping exactly

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uh and then that's because of today's break culture

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that's what we call it you know breaking we can

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get into that in a bit um high -end products

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and 24 7 marketplaces like Fanatics Live and

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Whatnot and now mirrors gambling almost to a

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T, right? So when you're ripping a pack, you're

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essentially, you know, taking a bet. You're placing

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a bet. You might get something like a life -changing

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card or you might walk away with absolutely nothing.

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And the dopamine hit is the same as pulling a

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slot, you know, a slot lever or sweating a, you

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know, 10 -leg parlay. And for kids, that's especially

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dangerous, right? This next generation is who

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we're really... um looking out for because it

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conditions them to normalize risk reward chasing

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at a really young age and so Collectors MD is

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here to help the hobby evolve responsibly we

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don't want to kill collecting we're not here

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to cancel culture cancel collecting cancel break

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culture we still want to be a part of it to an

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extent right but what we want to do is make it

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healthier, safer, and more sustainable. And that

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means having these honest conversations about

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risk, building guardrails, helping people remember

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that collecting really should be about passion,

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purpose, connection, right? Clarity, intention.

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These are all adjectives that we use to describe

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how we should be thinking about collecting as

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opposed to what we're seeing a lot of in this

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space, which is compulsion. So I'm really excited

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about the direction that Collectors MD is headed

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in. We've had a tremendous amount of support

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in a very short time, doing some really, really

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exciting things in the space. I've been fortunate

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to be welcomed on a handful of podcasts that

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are well -established and reach vast audiences.

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And so we're growing the platform. You know,

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it's more than just a weekly meeting. It's really

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becoming a full -fledged movement with all these

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different branches. I mentioned the content,

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the referral network. The community, in addition

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to the weekly meetings, we also have a group

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chat. We have a discord so people can stay connected

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in between these Wednesday night meetings. And

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people are also contributing, which is really

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great. So I mentioned the daily reflection. I'm

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not the only one writing those. We have members

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from our community contributing almost every

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day. So that's been amazing to see. And we've

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seen some incredible. stories you know both good

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and bad in these weekly meetings and some of

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them um you know get really really emotional

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you hear some of the things that are happening

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to people out there and it's it's mind -boggling

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that you know sports cards pokemon cards you

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know can have this type of impact on on people

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the same uh sort of insidious um ways that that

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things like gambling alcohol and substance abuse

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and addiction can have. So it's a, it's a scary

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place, but again, we're, we're doing what we

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can to provide the people that need it with the

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tools, resources, you know, and a safe space

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for them to be able to turn to, because like

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you said, nothing like this existed before collectors

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MD. I want to, I'm, I want to hold, I have some

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card collecting specific things I want to talk

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about, but other than cards what some of the

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people who are part of Collectors MD what other

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than cards are people collecting that they have

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found that they are running into harm with it's

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really mostly been cards up to this point you

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know like uh we are starting to explore these

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other verticals and we're seeing it across other

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verticals but there's something very unique about

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sports cards tcg pop culture cards whatever you

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want to call them because there's also the non

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-sports cards that aren't technically tcg like

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the marvel and the disney right that have become

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insanely popular um but the the nature of it

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right with uh the risk reward and not knowing

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what you're getting which makes it mirror gambling

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like to a t like i said before is what sucks

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people in and spits them out right when you're

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buying something like a watch or a pair of sneakers

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you generally know what you're getting you know

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you might have that impulsive itch to to buy

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something maybe you can't afford or something

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that you've had your eye on that you know you

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probably shouldn't buy but you do it anyway like

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that's a part of the cycle but it's not a one

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-to -one as it relates to the cards right because

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with the cards you're buying a hobby box you're

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buying a pack maybe you're joining a break and

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you don't know what you're getting you don't

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know what your return is gonna look like, right?

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And if we're looking at it from just a monetary

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standpoint, a lot of people are just chasing

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profits. People wanna spend. 100 bucks and get

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back 200 bucks the same way you would sit down

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at a blackjack table and start playing and you

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know either winner you lose same thing when you

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place a you know a sports bet last night the

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eagles and cowboys played you know half the country

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was on the cowboys the other half was on the

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eagles half of them doubled their money half

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of them didn't now of course you have things

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like parlays and prop bets and odds and all these

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other you know baked in um sort of uh extracurricular

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uh type of of betting but um generally speaking

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it's it's a 50 50 uh you know chance at profiting

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and so what people don't realize is that with

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with the cards you don't have a 50 50 chance

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of doubling your money you don't even have a

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50 50 chance of making back your money as a matter

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of fact in most cases there's something like

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uh five percent chance of making back your money

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and maybe a two percent chance of profiting at

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all right so um people who are new to the hobby

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especially young kids just have this uh skewed

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perception based on what they're hearing what

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they're being fed in um on social media by the

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breakers oh yeah popular videos are ones where

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cards get pulled and so they see that oh i could

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get that not knowing that there's thousands of

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us like deeply regretting many of the purchases

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we made of jumbo hobby boxes exactly so it's

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yeah it's um it's a lot of just uh misinformation

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being passed around um really really um what

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adjective to use misleading marketing um that

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these manufacturers the platforms the breakers

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are using every day to lure these people in People

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get sucked into these cycles. Maybe they have

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beginner's luck and they hit big in their first

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break or their first box. And suddenly they think

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that this is the norm and they can do this again,

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right? They can repeat what just happened. And

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that's never the case. Nobody is going to be

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able to open a box and 10X their money time and

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time again. It just doesn't work that way, right?

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Like it would be the equivalent of just hitting

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on 10 leg parlays over and over and over again.

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That doesn't happen. Right. Your odds are exponentially

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lower or I should say astronomically lower than

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that of a typical sports bet. Like I was saying,

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unless you're looking at like, you know, these

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long odds teasers and parlays that that people

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also get get hooked on. It's like insane how

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minimal your chances actually are. And so. um

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people don't realize that and uh then there's

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the whole nostalgic uh component of it where

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it's like this you know activity that's rooted

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in you know your childhood and you you did it

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maybe with your your dad or your brother or friends

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when you were a kid and you go to your local

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hobby shop and opening a box is you know like

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bringing you back to uh a really sentimental

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time in your life people get sucked in that way

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right um people get sucked in because maybe they're

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chasing their their favorite athlete or player

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on their team or um you know a specific set that

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uh is nostalgic to them and so there's you know

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a whole plethora of reasons why people get sucked

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in but ultimately many of those reasons aren't

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for sort of like the purity right of of collecting

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and why we started collecting in the first place

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and that's what we're trying to correct uh we

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want to promote collecting with intention not

00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:46.580
compulsion um and you know there's there's two

00:14:46.580 --> 00:14:48.820
sides to this and this is something i actually

00:14:48.820 --> 00:14:53.840
published yesterday um i published a daily reflection

00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:56.200
called two lanes of recovery there's abstinence

00:14:56.200 --> 00:15:00.009
or intention right and with gambling you know,

00:15:00.029 --> 00:15:03.629
GA says you have to abstain completely. You can't

00:15:03.629 --> 00:15:07.990
place a bet and go back. You can't go back. You

00:15:07.990 --> 00:15:09.950
know, once you're an addict, once you've established

00:15:09.950 --> 00:15:12.889
that you have a problem and you have this disease,

00:15:13.049 --> 00:15:15.590
you can't go back to gambling. It's just not

00:15:15.590 --> 00:15:19.169
possible with collecting. We're looking at it

00:15:19.169 --> 00:15:21.559
through. Sort of a different lens. And I'm just

00:15:21.559 --> 00:15:24.019
going to quickly read this article, if that's

00:15:24.019 --> 00:15:26.460
okay with you, Brian. Just because I think it

00:15:26.460 --> 00:15:28.539
might resonate with a lot of people. Yeah, definitely.

00:15:29.220 --> 00:15:32.259
Again, the title is Two Lanes of Recovery, Abstinence

00:15:32.259 --> 00:15:34.759
or Intention. I published this yesterday. It's

00:15:34.759 --> 00:15:37.559
on collectorsmd .com forward slash daily dash

00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:39.720
reflection. You can look at all of our daily

00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:43.009
reflections there anytime you'd like. They live

00:15:43.009 --> 00:15:45.289
in perpetuity. And again, we publish them every

00:15:45.289 --> 00:15:48.049
day. All right. So this was yesterday's. In recovery,

00:15:48.309 --> 00:15:50.929
there isn't just one path. For some, the only

00:15:50.929 --> 00:15:53.210
sustainable way forward is complete abstinence.

00:15:53.330 --> 00:15:55.809
For others, the goal is to rebuild a healthier

00:15:55.809 --> 00:15:58.529
relationship by practicing intention, boundaries,

00:15:58.669 --> 00:16:01.440
and clarity. This is true across many high -risk,

00:16:01.539 --> 00:16:04.480
dopamine -driven activities. Gambling, day trading,

00:16:04.759 --> 00:16:07.799
compulsive spending, and yes, collecting. Some

00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:09.799
members of our community recognize that they

00:16:09.799 --> 00:16:12.240
can never return to cards, or to any form of

00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:14.179
leisurely spending or collecting for that matter.

00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:17.679
For them, the hobby became toxic, a source of

00:16:17.679 --> 00:16:20.320
compulsion rather than joy. Maybe they were never

00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:22.600
truly in it for the purity of collecting, or

00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:24.860
maybe the purity was stripped away by the insidious

00:16:24.860 --> 00:16:27.159
side of the hobby, the endless chase for profit,

00:16:27.340 --> 00:16:29.500
the constant pursuit of the next dopamine hit,

00:16:29.620 --> 00:16:32.460
or impressing others. When the hobby reaches

00:16:32.460 --> 00:16:35.100
this point, stepping away completely and perhaps

00:16:35.100 --> 00:16:38.679
permanently may be the only safe option. Walking

00:16:38.679 --> 00:16:41.539
away for good isn't weakness, it's wisdom and

00:16:41.539 --> 00:16:44.509
courage. Others in our community don't necessarily

00:16:44.509 --> 00:16:47.669
identify as having a problem. They still love

00:16:47.669 --> 00:16:49.730
the hobby, but they want to be proactive about

00:16:49.730 --> 00:16:52.389
collecting with intention before it takes control.

00:16:52.690 --> 00:16:55.450
For them, it's about setting boundaries, practicing

00:16:55.450 --> 00:16:58.149
mindfulness, and finding clarity so that collecting

00:16:58.149 --> 00:17:01.070
remains a source of connection and joy, not compulsion

00:17:01.070 --> 00:17:03.759
and regret. They understand and acknowledge that

00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:06.200
the hobby has evolved into an ecosystem built

00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:09.099
to pull people in, engineered to exploit excitement

00:17:09.099 --> 00:17:12.420
rather than nurture passion, and if left unchecked,

00:17:12.420 --> 00:17:15.380
to keep them trapped. This distinction isn't

00:17:15.380 --> 00:17:17.819
unique to collecting. It mirrors other high -risk

00:17:17.819 --> 00:17:20.720
dopamine -driven activities, gambling, day trading,

00:17:20.920 --> 00:17:24.019
even shopping. Each operates on the same neurological

00:17:24.019 --> 00:17:27.279
feedback loops. But if someone struggles with

00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:29.640
gambling, does that automatically mean they can't

00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:31.880
safely participate in other high -risk activities

00:17:31.880 --> 00:17:34.440
like day trading or even something as seemingly

00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:38.380
harmless and socially accepted as fantasy sports?

00:17:39.059 --> 00:17:42.049
Then there's this little graphic. of a football

00:17:42.049 --> 00:17:44.150
player. It says, is fantasy football gambling?

00:17:44.390 --> 00:17:46.730
And the caption is, with football season officially

00:17:46.730 --> 00:17:49.789
upon us and chatter and camaraderie around gambling

00:17:49.789 --> 00:17:51.910
and sports cards everywhere, now is a good time

00:17:51.910 --> 00:17:53.950
to take a step back, pause, and assess where

00:17:53.950 --> 00:17:56.910
we stand in relation to it all. So is fantasy

00:17:56.910 --> 00:17:59.789
football gambling? Or is fantasy sports gambling?

00:18:00.150 --> 00:18:03.319
Some say yes, some say no. Gamblers Anonymous

00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:05.900
defines it as gambling, and for some, it triggers

00:18:05.900 --> 00:18:08.160
the same compulsions as a night at the blackjack

00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:11.259
table or formulating a multi -leg teaser. But

00:18:11.259 --> 00:18:13.480
for others, it feels more like casual competition

00:18:13.480 --> 00:18:16.160
among friends and might not ignite the same fire.

00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:19.450
The truth is, it depends on the person. Each

00:18:19.450 --> 00:18:21.250
of us has a different threshold, a different

00:18:21.250 --> 00:18:23.250
set of risk factors, and a unique relationship

00:18:23.250 --> 00:18:26.210
to risk, reward, and control. What feels harmless

00:18:26.210 --> 00:18:28.109
to one person can be destructive to another.

00:18:28.609 --> 00:18:30.730
That's why these conversations matter, so we

00:18:30.730 --> 00:18:33.430
can recognize when the line between fun and compulsion

00:18:33.430 --> 00:18:36.309
starts to blur and adjust our habits accordingly

00:18:36.309 --> 00:18:38.910
before things spiral. I'm almost done. I know

00:18:38.910 --> 00:18:40.650
this is a little bit longer than I realized.

00:18:41.630 --> 00:18:43.769
That's also why there's no cookie cutter approach.

00:18:44.029 --> 00:18:46.630
Each person's circumstances are unique and every

00:18:46.630 --> 00:18:48.609
individual's journey deserves to be treated as

00:18:48.609 --> 00:18:51.910
such. For some, abstinence is freedom. For others,

00:18:52.029 --> 00:18:54.509
intention is balance. Neither path is necessarily

00:18:54.509 --> 00:18:57.210
better than the other. It's about finding the

00:18:57.210 --> 00:18:59.410
lane that keeps you safe, grounded, and true

00:18:59.410 --> 00:19:02.150
to yourself. And for some, it might be a hybrid

00:19:02.150 --> 00:19:05.509
between the two or another line. another lane

00:19:05.509 --> 00:19:08.369
entirely at the end of the day we don't have

00:19:08.369 --> 00:19:10.509
all the answers and there's no perfect antidote

00:19:10.509 --> 00:19:12.869
we can prescribe to cure addiction but at collectors

00:19:12.869 --> 00:19:16.190
md we honor every lane what matters most is that

00:19:16.190 --> 00:19:19.029
you find a path that works for you not one dictated

00:19:19.029 --> 00:19:21.009
by the industry the market or even the people

00:19:21.009 --> 00:19:23.950
around you the choice isn't one size fits all

00:19:23.950 --> 00:19:26.789
it's deeply personal and whatever path you choose

00:19:26.789 --> 00:19:29.390
you don't have to walk it alone we support you

00:19:29.390 --> 00:19:31.930
wherever you are in your journey hashtag collectors

00:19:31.930 --> 00:19:34.369
md The healthiest lane is the one that keeps

00:19:34.369 --> 00:19:36.670
you free from compulsion and rooted in choice,

00:19:36.910 --> 00:19:39.609
whether that means walking away entirely or collecting

00:19:39.609 --> 00:19:46.390
with intention. Very nice. I would, I mean, gambling

00:19:46.390 --> 00:19:49.089
is, as we define it, is risking something of

00:19:49.089 --> 00:19:53.529
value for an uncertain outcome. Right. I mean,

00:19:53.529 --> 00:19:55.369
if you're playing free fantasy and there's nothing

00:19:55.369 --> 00:19:58.029
that you're risking, then go nuts. But if you're

00:19:58.029 --> 00:19:59.869
putting that money, it's probably gambling. But

00:19:59.869 --> 00:20:02.289
again, it doesn't matter if something's gambling

00:20:02.289 --> 00:20:05.049
or not. If it's causing you harm and you continue

00:20:05.049 --> 00:20:07.390
to do it, you're either lying to yourself because

00:20:07.390 --> 00:20:09.829
you enjoy doing it, and that's fine. It's your

00:20:09.829 --> 00:20:14.250
life. There's no right way. GA is not 100 % right.

00:20:14.430 --> 00:20:17.190
It works for a lot of people. It's great. But

00:20:17.190 --> 00:20:19.390
it doesn't mean that you have to live by those

00:20:19.390 --> 00:20:23.599
rules. You're like, well, every time I play blackjack,

00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:25.440
I lose and I overdo it. But every time I play

00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:28.700
poker, I'm OK like that. It's your life. Like,

00:20:28.740 --> 00:20:30.720
but are you really OK? I think a lot of people

00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:32.980
just lie to themselves because they want to be

00:20:32.980 --> 00:20:34.880
able to participate in that behavior that feels

00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:39.420
good. Right. And you can't do that if you want

00:20:39.420 --> 00:20:43.400
the healthy existence. You know, I used to laugh

00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:45.779
at harm reduction. I mean, I still don't really

00:20:45.779 --> 00:20:49.769
think that harm reduction in gambling. Because

00:20:49.769 --> 00:20:51.869
you have to free your brain of that burden. And

00:20:51.869 --> 00:20:53.450
if you don't free it, if you keep participating

00:20:53.450 --> 00:20:55.849
in the activity and risking something, even if

00:20:55.849 --> 00:20:58.190
it's less frequent with less money, you're still

00:20:58.190 --> 00:21:01.109
giving yourself that boost. And you're never

00:21:01.109 --> 00:21:03.609
going to heal if you keep participating in that

00:21:03.609 --> 00:21:09.869
activity. So it's hard. I mean, listen, Alyx,

00:21:09.950 --> 00:21:11.250
I'm sitting here because I've been trying to

00:21:11.250 --> 00:21:12.710
get rid of these cards for the last year. And

00:21:12.710 --> 00:21:15.019
I'm sitting here. My desk is covered in cards

00:21:15.019 --> 00:21:16.319
that I've been trying to get rid of for the last

00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:18.319
year. And I do, I list shit every day on eBay

00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:20.859
and I, and I, I don't like, I'm not asking for

00:21:20.859 --> 00:21:23.420
top dollar. I list this crap to get rid of it.

00:21:23.819 --> 00:21:26.279
I, if I had bigger boxes, I'd probably have bigger

00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:31.920
lots on eBay. But as I'm doing this, I'm like,

00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:34.579
what the hell was wrong with me? What have I

00:21:34.579 --> 00:21:39.640
done? This is insane. How many cards I have.

00:21:40.349 --> 00:21:42.450
How many boxes I bought thinking I was going

00:21:42.450 --> 00:21:45.190
to get something. I never got anything that was,

00:21:45.210 --> 00:21:47.150
you know, those cards that they'll show you on,

00:21:47.150 --> 00:21:49.190
on those, on the YouTube channels that they sell,

00:21:49.230 --> 00:21:51.650
like on spitball. And those, they'll show you

00:21:51.650 --> 00:21:54.109
like a $12 ,000 card or something that was, that

00:21:54.109 --> 00:21:56.230
was sold. And they'll talk about a recent sale

00:21:56.230 --> 00:21:59.990
of like a 12, like a 12 ,000. I've never gotten

00:21:59.990 --> 00:22:03.170
a card that was, I think the highest one I ever

00:22:03.170 --> 00:22:08.130
sold on eBay was like 600 bucks. And that was

00:22:08.130 --> 00:22:10.329
not without trying by spending the money I spent.

00:22:11.150 --> 00:22:15.490
So, yeah, I don't think people are ever going

00:22:15.490 --> 00:22:17.049
to get their money back, especially now, like

00:22:17.049 --> 00:22:22.150
the current product, the 2023, 4, 5. It's all

00:22:22.150 --> 00:22:25.329
so overpriced. 2024 Chrome update went insane,

00:22:25.470 --> 00:22:27.289
but it had a lot of people in it, and that's

00:22:27.289 --> 00:22:30.769
why it went insane, right? The price has skyrocketed.

00:22:30.769 --> 00:22:33.630
The price has skyrocketed. The product got watered

00:22:33.630 --> 00:22:36.750
down by all these ridiculous. parallels and stuff

00:22:36.750 --> 00:22:38.950
they stick in there so yeah you're getting more

00:22:38.950 --> 00:22:43.049
parallels but instead of you know the nice parallel

00:22:43.049 --> 00:22:48.750
out of 25 50 99 150 whatever you're getting a

00:22:48.750 --> 00:22:52.250
non -numbered holiday parallel that the base

00:22:52.250 --> 00:22:54.730
card is selling for 79 cents and this parallel

00:22:54.730 --> 00:22:58.390
is selling for a buck 75 right so there's no

00:22:58.390 --> 00:23:01.789
like yeah you get another otani but it's a it's

00:23:01.789 --> 00:23:06.700
just a shitty copycat that you don't want. The

00:23:06.700 --> 00:23:11.240
problem is oversaturation. It's insane. They

00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:16.740
make an outrageous number of sets, subsets, parallels,

00:23:17.259 --> 00:23:21.680
serial numbered cards, autos, patch autos. I

00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:24.059
mean, it's been this way for... i mean they print

00:23:24.059 --> 00:23:26.359
money that's what they're doing right they could

00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:28.400
do whatever they want because they know people

00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:30.319
will buy it but they could they could all of

00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:32.200
a sudden next week be like oh we have an even

00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:35.119
rarer thing than a one of one you know we have

00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:38.339
a i don't know how you do that but you know they're

00:23:38.339 --> 00:23:42.279
they just keep creating bullshit to sell us yeah

00:23:42.279 --> 00:23:45.000
one of ones aren't even one of ones anymore right

00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:48.559
because Not if they're Leaf, I'm sure. Jesus.

00:23:48.660 --> 00:23:52.119
Yeah. Leaf. I mean, it's crazy. They have these

00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:54.339
things, these things called black box or white

00:23:54.339 --> 00:23:57.420
box. One of ones that Panini puts out as sort

00:23:57.420 --> 00:23:59.460
of redemption replacements and redemptions is

00:23:59.460 --> 00:24:02.299
a whole nother story that we could spend an hour

00:24:02.299 --> 00:24:05.819
talking about. But basically when the national

00:24:05.819 --> 00:24:09.059
rolls around every year, you have an opportunity

00:24:09.059 --> 00:24:11.579
where you can sign up for an appointment with

00:24:11.579 --> 00:24:16.029
Panini to. exchange a handful of, uh, open redemptions

00:24:16.029 --> 00:24:18.250
that, you know, have yet to be redeemed, um,

00:24:18.450 --> 00:24:22.150
for a black box or multiple black boxes. And

00:24:22.150 --> 00:24:25.410
what they do is they essentially take, um, cards

00:24:25.410 --> 00:24:28.650
that, uh, haven't gone through production or

00:24:28.650 --> 00:24:31.970
like are duplicates. So for instance, uh, there

00:24:31.970 --> 00:24:36.789
might be, um, um, a serial numbered run of like

00:24:36.789 --> 00:24:40.500
25 cards of let's say, uh, Jameer Gibbs. Right.

00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:43.440
In this one particular parallel from this one

00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:46.619
particular set. In most cases, instead of printing

00:24:46.619 --> 00:24:49.119
25, which actually will make it through production

00:24:49.119 --> 00:24:53.400
or be circulated, as they say, they'll do 27.

00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:55.740
Right. So they'll have two extra copies and they

00:24:55.740 --> 00:24:59.920
usually do that in case somebody gets a damaged

00:24:59.920 --> 00:25:02.779
one and wants a replacement or there's another,

00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:06.720
you know, sort of circumstance beyond their control

00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:08.680
that. you know, they would need a backup for,

00:25:08.759 --> 00:25:10.839
right? And so most of the time those backups

00:25:10.839 --> 00:25:12.619
don't get used, but they're still signed by the

00:25:12.619 --> 00:25:16.519
player. Whereas like Jameer will sign 27 copies

00:25:16.519 --> 00:25:19.200
instead of 25, right? And they'll take those

00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:21.059
copies and they'll stamp, they don't have the

00:25:21.059 --> 00:25:23.799
serial number on them, those two extra copies,

00:25:23.900 --> 00:25:26.779
but they'll stamp black box one of one, right?

00:25:26.900 --> 00:25:29.119
This little logo that Panini makes. And then

00:25:29.119 --> 00:25:30.599
they'll put it into one of these black boxes

00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:34.240
and then people get those as replacement. Usually

00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:38.579
they're decent cards, like... They have nicer

00:25:38.579 --> 00:25:42.700
ones than others. And unfortunately, Panini does

00:25:42.700 --> 00:25:45.299
a really poor job of sort of tiering them out

00:25:45.299 --> 00:25:47.500
and marking which ones are worth what. Like,

00:25:47.500 --> 00:25:49.539
so for instance, you can go and you can get a

00:25:49.539 --> 00:25:52.039
black box that's worth five grand based on the

00:25:52.039 --> 00:25:54.259
redemptions that you have open. And then the

00:25:54.259 --> 00:25:57.700
next person can go and exchange $300 worth of

00:25:57.700 --> 00:26:00.140
redemptions and get a $300 box. But they both

00:26:00.140 --> 00:26:03.480
look exactly the same. And then people are turning

00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:07.049
around and reselling them. to uh the after that

00:26:07.049 --> 00:26:09.190
like on the aftermarket for the same price across

00:26:09.190 --> 00:26:11.410
the board so people don't know what they're actually

00:26:11.410 --> 00:26:13.549
getting the only person who truly knows the value

00:26:13.549 --> 00:26:17.029
is the original uh person who received it right

00:26:17.029 --> 00:26:21.390
so anyway um those one of ones aren't even one

00:26:21.390 --> 00:26:24.750
of ones because they were a part of another run

00:26:24.750 --> 00:26:28.490
they may have been like a a red parallel from

00:26:28.490 --> 00:26:31.049
whatever subset looks identical to the other

00:26:31.049 --> 00:26:33.130
cards in that same set that are numbered to 25

00:26:33.130 --> 00:26:35.670
the only difference is that panini stamped black

00:26:35.670 --> 00:26:38.329
box one of one on the back and it doesn't have

00:26:38.329 --> 00:26:42.230
a serial number so yeah it's crazy i mean some

00:26:42.230 --> 00:26:46.730
of these rookies uh i think most recently it

00:26:46.730 --> 00:26:48.990
was either justin herbert which was like five

00:26:48.990 --> 00:26:51.410
years ago at this point or victor women yama

00:26:51.410 --> 00:26:55.569
which was last year um there was a stat that

00:26:55.569 --> 00:26:59.940
i saw that like They had close to 2000 one of

00:26:59.940 --> 00:27:03.619
ones, you know, different products from their

00:27:03.619 --> 00:27:05.680
from their rookie year across all these different

00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:07.940
products. And that was just with Panini. Right.

00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:10.000
We're not talking about the unlicensed cards

00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:13.640
with Topps and Fanatics and Leaf and, you know,

00:27:13.640 --> 00:27:17.579
whatever other manufacturers are putting the

00:27:17.579 --> 00:27:20.720
junk out there. But what is really a one of one,

00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:23.329
you know? collectors and hobbyists throw the

00:27:23.329 --> 00:27:26.009
word true around a lot where it's like, this

00:27:26.009 --> 00:27:29.049
is the true one of one or the true RPA or the

00:27:29.049 --> 00:27:32.190
true black of a particular card. Like what is

00:27:32.190 --> 00:27:35.170
the true who, who decides what the true is, right?

00:27:35.269 --> 00:27:37.670
Like, is it Panini? Is it Fanatics? Is it the

00:27:37.670 --> 00:27:40.829
collectors? Is it the community? Is it, you know,

00:27:40.829 --> 00:27:44.670
the online forums? Is it eBay? Like, no, it's

00:27:44.670 --> 00:27:48.589
the collector. It's whatever the value of something

00:27:48.589 --> 00:27:53.049
is monetary, emotional, mental like whatever

00:27:53.049 --> 00:28:00.089
value uh you are um sort of looking at and a

00:28:00.089 --> 00:28:02.269
lot of times it's sentimental value should be

00:28:02.269 --> 00:28:05.589
you know up to the owner of that particular card

00:28:05.589 --> 00:28:08.230
right the value lies in the eyes of the beholder

00:28:08.230 --> 00:28:11.390
this is what we try to say uh but unfortunately

00:28:11.390 --> 00:28:14.569
the market and the platforms and the breakers

00:28:14.569 --> 00:28:17.670
and the marketplaces everybody dictates what

00:28:17.670 --> 00:28:22.180
a card is worth And so, you know, people just

00:28:22.180 --> 00:28:24.559
get lost in the hype. They get lost in the shuffle

00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:28.000
and they get lost in themselves. They don't know

00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:30.460
what they're collecting anymore. Are they collecting

00:28:30.460 --> 00:28:32.599
cards they like or are they just collecting what's

00:28:32.599 --> 00:28:34.940
popular? Everybody was hooked on Caitlin Clark

00:28:34.940 --> 00:28:38.019
for the last year, year and a half. Now she's

00:28:38.019 --> 00:28:40.579
out for the season and her market is, you know,

00:28:40.599 --> 00:28:44.730
slowly tanking. you know, Paige Beckers is up

00:28:44.730 --> 00:28:47.230
next in the WNBA. Like how long is that going

00:28:47.230 --> 00:28:49.930
to go on for? And it's, it's all, it's all hype.

00:28:50.009 --> 00:28:54.109
It's that's what it is. It's all just manufactured

00:28:54.109 --> 00:28:57.750
hype. Back when I participated in, in breaks

00:28:57.750 --> 00:29:00.710
and I, I did way too many every now and I can't

00:29:00.710 --> 00:29:02.069
remember the last time I participated in one,

00:29:02.130 --> 00:29:05.650
but every now and then I will just look on eBay

00:29:05.650 --> 00:29:07.970
to see what breaks are happening. Like what is

00:29:07.970 --> 00:29:10.690
the product that people are breaking? And some

00:29:10.690 --> 00:29:12.730
of this shit, like over the years, I've realized

00:29:12.730 --> 00:29:14.730
is just so completely worthless. It doesn't matter

00:29:14.730 --> 00:29:17.490
what cards you get from that. No one is paying

00:29:17.490 --> 00:29:19.869
what they pay for the license product. You know,

00:29:19.890 --> 00:29:22.690
if you're buying baseball panini, you know, if

00:29:22.690 --> 00:29:24.529
you're getting a boys of summer, Jackson Churio

00:29:24.529 --> 00:29:29.970
auto, you're not, you're not getting, it's not

00:29:29.970 --> 00:29:31.849
going to be, you're getting like, you just hang

00:29:31.849 --> 00:29:34.069
on to it. Cause it's more, it's, it's more of

00:29:34.069 --> 00:29:35.890
used to you than that than, than it is on the

00:29:35.890 --> 00:29:38.980
open market. But I, I, A specific break comes

00:29:38.980 --> 00:29:42.720
to mind, and I bid on it because I thought they

00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:45.579
had 10 boxes, and I misread it, and it was one

00:29:45.579 --> 00:29:47.440
box. And I was like, why the hell would I sign

00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:50.539
up for a one -box break? And it was a father

00:29:50.539 --> 00:29:53.859
and his two sons. And I was like, oh, how adorable.

00:29:54.039 --> 00:29:56.720
He's getting them into breaking early. And then

00:29:56.720 --> 00:30:01.279
it got worse because they did exactly. So my

00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:04.660
team, I had the angels. My team, I got the one

00:30:04.660 --> 00:30:08.950
auto in the box. I did. My team. And it was Trey

00:30:08.950 --> 00:30:12.829
cabbage. Okay. So maybe this was the beginning

00:30:12.829 --> 00:30:14.410
of last year or something. I might've bought,

00:30:14.509 --> 00:30:16.130
you know, I think it was like seven bucks or

00:30:16.130 --> 00:30:19.410
something. Yeah. Was he a rookie in that? Yeah.

00:30:19.509 --> 00:30:21.470
He was. Yeah. One of those nameless rookies that

00:30:21.470 --> 00:30:25.589
you just, cause he's like, he's like 28. So instead

00:30:25.589 --> 00:30:29.369
of, instead of like in my previous experience

00:30:29.369 --> 00:30:32.089
with breaks, you know, people are like, Hey,

00:30:32.089 --> 00:30:34.109
an auto good for you. You got an auto. They don't,

00:30:34.109 --> 00:30:36.700
you know, they don't. shit on you for a shitty

00:30:36.700 --> 00:30:41.339
audio the dad and his kids look up the auto start

00:30:41.339 --> 00:30:43.359
making fun like oh three bucks that's all you

00:30:43.359 --> 00:30:46.539
got three dollar auto what kind of that's crappy

00:30:46.539 --> 00:30:50.039
cabbage and i'm like you're crapping on the guy

00:30:50.039 --> 00:30:52.200
who just gave you money to participate in your

00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:55.339
little break because that's not worth it how

00:30:55.339 --> 00:30:56.880
do you know i'm not a huge trade cabbage fan

00:30:56.880 --> 00:30:58.740
i'm just so happy to have his auto on a card

00:30:58.740 --> 00:31:01.079
and so that right there how do they know you're

00:31:01.079 --> 00:31:04.630
not trade cabbage himself this yeah Like this

00:31:04.630 --> 00:31:06.630
dad is now teaching them, oh, only the money

00:31:06.630 --> 00:31:09.529
matters. The product doesn't matter. It matters

00:31:09.529 --> 00:31:11.650
what you can sell it for and get money for. And

00:31:11.650 --> 00:31:13.569
so the collecting aspect to me at that point,

00:31:13.650 --> 00:31:15.009
I was like, oh, this is all shit in the can.

00:31:15.170 --> 00:31:18.190
And this is the society we live in now. That's

00:31:18.190 --> 00:31:19.650
what we're seeing more and more of. And that's

00:31:19.650 --> 00:31:24.450
the biggest problem is the associated value with

00:31:24.450 --> 00:31:27.750
cards. People just only looking at profit. They

00:31:27.750 --> 00:31:32.230
throw out paper. Yeah. We're not even going to

00:31:32.230 --> 00:31:35.009
ship it. backyard breaks for instance is like

00:31:35.009 --> 00:31:38.910
one of the uh biggest those great bags yeah a

00:31:38.910 --> 00:31:40.849
lot of people they're very polarizing i'll just

00:31:40.849 --> 00:31:43.890
leave it at that um i'll call them douchebags

00:31:43.890 --> 00:31:49.509
they uh recently introduced a new sort of system

00:31:49.509 --> 00:31:52.150
i guess you could call it where they would have

00:31:52.150 --> 00:31:55.609
quick consign which is a um you know consignment

00:31:55.609 --> 00:31:58.130
company that you know they'll sell your cards

00:31:58.130 --> 00:32:01.990
for you basically post up at their you know hq

00:32:01.990 --> 00:32:06.799
where they break and you can basically DM them.

00:32:06.819 --> 00:32:08.859
You hit a card in a break, you DM them, quick

00:32:08.859 --> 00:32:10.519
and sign, we'll sell it for you on the spot.

00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:12.740
So it's like, you don't even get the card in

00:32:12.740 --> 00:32:15.559
your physical possession ever, right? You're

00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:17.859
just, you're joining a break. You're hoping you

00:32:17.859 --> 00:32:20.640
hit a card that you can flip. The chances of

00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:22.880
you actually hitting a card that's going to make.

00:32:23.359 --> 00:32:25.660
you know, make your money back again are extremely

00:32:25.660 --> 00:32:28.220
slim, but they're offering the service so that,

00:32:28.220 --> 00:32:29.799
you know, if you want to make some of your money

00:32:29.799 --> 00:32:32.519
back, you can. And people get sucked into that

00:32:32.519 --> 00:32:33.920
and they start doing that. Next thing you know,

00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:35.440
you start looking at the numbers and it's like,

00:32:35.559 --> 00:32:38.599
all right, today I joined five breaks. I bought

00:32:38.599 --> 00:32:42.099
five spots in each break. I spent 2 ,500 bucks.

00:32:42.539 --> 00:32:44.559
I'm going to list all of my cards with quick

00:32:44.559 --> 00:32:47.839
and sign because that's an option now. And I'm

00:32:47.839 --> 00:32:50.900
going to get back $300. It's like, what, like,

00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:53.019
what's the point of doing that? I just don't,

00:32:53.019 --> 00:32:56.160
I don't, you're not, yeah, you're not even like,

00:32:56.259 --> 00:32:58.900
at that point, you're not even collecting anymore.

00:32:59.099 --> 00:33:01.079
There is no collecting. You are buying into a

00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:04.019
break. You're literally handing cash over to

00:33:04.019 --> 00:33:07.640
the middleman, which is the breaker. And they

00:33:07.640 --> 00:33:10.619
are pulling cards out of a pack and then turning

00:33:10.619 --> 00:33:13.220
around and handing them over to quick and sign

00:33:13.220 --> 00:33:16.740
for them to list those cars on eBay. It's like,

00:33:16.759 --> 00:33:19.880
it just doesn't make any sense. But you have,

00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:22.440
you know, the characters over at Backyard Breaks

00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:25.420
that are hyping this whole process up and posting

00:33:25.420 --> 00:33:28.039
it on their story and making these posts about

00:33:28.039 --> 00:33:30.220
why, you know, it's the best value and you've

00:33:30.220 --> 00:33:32.480
got to join. And if you don't, then what they're

00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:35.299
doing is they're creating a sense of FOMO. It's

00:33:35.299 --> 00:33:38.440
this whole, like, sort of fraternity energy where

00:33:38.440 --> 00:33:41.960
you got to, it's like an exclusive fan club.

00:33:42.039 --> 00:33:44.079
Like, you want to be a part of this? You want

00:33:44.079 --> 00:33:46.000
to hang out with us? You want to be hanging out

00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:47.940
with the cool kids on the block? Join our break.

00:33:48.619 --> 00:33:51.019
hand your cards over to quick and sign and you

00:33:51.019 --> 00:33:54.599
know you're you're it's the the fast lane to

00:33:54.599 --> 00:33:57.099
becoming popular i mean that's more or less what

00:33:57.099 --> 00:33:59.339
it is right people like to hear their names called

00:33:59.339 --> 00:34:02.339
out on the live streams with 500 1000 people

00:34:02.339 --> 00:34:05.299
in the live people like uh that sort of attention

00:34:05.299 --> 00:34:09.360
you know in a rare very rare case you actually

00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:11.840
do hit a card that's that's noteworthy and usually

00:34:11.840 --> 00:34:13.880
it's the same names being called out right like

00:34:13.880 --> 00:34:17.489
because those people are just buying tons spots

00:34:17.489 --> 00:34:20.090
in these breaks and so you throw enough crap

00:34:20.090 --> 00:34:21.710
at the wall eventually some of it's gonna stick

00:34:21.710 --> 00:34:24.070
but if you're spending 10 grand on a break and

00:34:24.070 --> 00:34:25.809
getting back a thousand dollars worth of cards

00:34:25.809 --> 00:34:29.150
yeah somebody's gonna like give you a shout out

00:34:29.150 --> 00:34:31.070
because you hit that thousand dollar card but

00:34:31.070 --> 00:34:32.809
you spent ten thousand dollars to hit that car

00:34:32.809 --> 00:34:35.250
yeah so i mean and that's what we're seeing more

00:34:35.250 --> 00:34:37.670
and more of the big whales the guys that are

00:34:37.670 --> 00:34:41.389
going into these uh these lives and ripping thousands,

00:34:41.489 --> 00:34:44.429
tens of thousands of dollars in wax and one sitting,

00:34:44.530 --> 00:34:47.030
these guys are hitting big cards and like, you

00:34:47.030 --> 00:34:49.170
know, they're getting shout outs and, you know,

00:34:49.170 --> 00:34:51.610
attention from the breakers, from the manufacturers,

00:34:51.610 --> 00:34:55.449
maybe even tops or panini or reposting, you know,

00:34:55.469 --> 00:34:58.210
the video where the card was hit. But those are

00:34:58.210 --> 00:35:01.530
the same people that are spending all of their

00:35:01.530 --> 00:35:05.349
money and, you know, losing in the long run or

00:35:05.349 --> 00:35:08.980
the short run for that matter. So it's all kind

00:35:08.980 --> 00:35:11.320
of just a giant scam. I hate to call it that.

00:35:11.900 --> 00:35:15.559
But breaking is, as somebody who was involved

00:35:15.559 --> 00:35:17.380
on the other side, where like when I first got

00:35:17.380 --> 00:35:19.500
back into the hobby in the early days of the

00:35:19.500 --> 00:35:24.420
pandemic, I was breaking. I was in a break group

00:35:24.420 --> 00:35:25.940
with three buddies that I grew up with called

00:35:25.940 --> 00:35:30.059
Bogo Breaks. And we were ripping boxes on Instagram

00:35:30.059 --> 00:35:33.820
and Facebook. Eventually, you know, we did. We

00:35:33.820 --> 00:35:36.829
did, actually. yeah i could show you some some

00:35:36.829 --> 00:35:41.130
old footage uh i i did wear gloves early on uh

00:35:41.130 --> 00:35:43.550
when i was when i was doing breaks on facebook

00:35:43.550 --> 00:35:47.650
they were like you know very uh sort of accessible

00:35:47.650 --> 00:35:49.929
price point i mean like it would be like 50 bucks

00:35:49.929 --> 00:35:52.929
to join a break and we do like three boxes and

00:35:52.929 --> 00:35:56.969
you know you weren't like you weren't like forcing

00:35:56.969 --> 00:36:00.210
people or like creating a sense of fomo or like

00:36:00.210 --> 00:36:03.460
screaming into the mic To get people to join

00:36:03.460 --> 00:36:07.639
or, you know, berating people because the auctions

00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:10.320
aren't going for what they should or, you know,

00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:12.380
whatever the breaker thinks they should. I mean,

00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:14.219
what it looks like today versus what it looked

00:36:14.219 --> 00:36:16.800
like five years ago is night and day. Now, I'm

00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:19.300
not saying breaking was safe or healthy back

00:36:19.300 --> 00:36:22.460
then. You know, there are sort of different levels

00:36:22.460 --> 00:36:27.119
to it. But what it looks like today, this ecosystem

00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:31.599
is a gambling machine with absolutely zero guardrails.

00:36:32.199 --> 00:36:35.820
and um zero regulation and so that's where collectors

00:36:35.820 --> 00:36:38.559
comes in and i kind of want to go back to uh

00:36:38.559 --> 00:36:41.960
one thing that we um addressed briefly when i

00:36:41.960 --> 00:36:45.380
was reading that uh daily reflection um one of

00:36:45.380 --> 00:36:47.780
the big differences between gambling and collecting

00:36:47.780 --> 00:36:51.079
is around abstinence right in gamblers anonymous

00:36:51.079 --> 00:36:54.239
i mentioned this and you kind of confirmed it,

00:36:54.280 --> 00:36:57.000
the message is very clear. Full abstinence is

00:36:57.000 --> 00:37:00.320
the only way forward. And I personally get it,

00:37:00.340 --> 00:37:02.639
right? For gambling, that makes sense. You can't

00:37:02.639 --> 00:37:05.880
really place just one bet responsibly if you've

00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:07.719
crossed that line before. It's a slippery slope.

00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:11.059
It's way too dangerous. You're eventually going

00:37:11.059 --> 00:37:14.719
to, you know, go full tilt like we all do as

00:37:14.719 --> 00:37:18.039
compulsive gamblers. But collecting is a little

00:37:18.039 --> 00:37:19.760
bit more complicated. It's a little bit more

00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:22.380
of a gray area. And I'm going to preface saying,

00:37:22.940 --> 00:37:27.619
that i'm not making excuses or justifying or

00:37:27.619 --> 00:37:31.000
or saying that you know it's okay to collect

00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:35.119
but for some people it really does need to be

00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:39.059
full abstinence right cards or memorabilia become

00:37:39.059 --> 00:37:41.679
so tied up with compulsion that the healthiest

00:37:41.679 --> 00:37:43.980
choice is just to walk away completely but for

00:37:43.980 --> 00:37:47.159
others collecting still does bring joy and this

00:37:47.159 --> 00:37:48.980
is you know sort of like where i'm not trying

00:37:48.980 --> 00:37:51.980
to make excuses for these people um but there's

00:37:52.639 --> 00:37:55.000
there's nostalgia and there's connection. There

00:37:55.000 --> 00:37:58.000
are things that exist here that don't exist in

00:37:58.000 --> 00:38:00.460
the world of gambling. Like, you know, I mean,

00:38:00.460 --> 00:38:02.239
you could try to tell me that you're a big sports

00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:04.980
fan. And so placing a bet might make the game

00:38:04.980 --> 00:38:07.019
more exciting for you. But when it comes to like

00:38:07.019 --> 00:38:09.480
card games and casino, what are you going to

00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:11.699
try to tell me that like a particular slot machine

00:38:11.699 --> 00:38:14.619
makes you feel a certain type of way? Like, no,

00:38:14.699 --> 00:38:16.579
it's very black and white. People are gambling

00:38:16.579 --> 00:38:19.960
to. scratch an itch to chase that dopamine high

00:38:19.960 --> 00:38:24.059
and to ultimately try to make some money so with

00:38:24.059 --> 00:38:26.840
the sports cards um those people who are sort

00:38:26.840 --> 00:38:30.380
of collecting with intention and you know it

00:38:30.380 --> 00:38:32.559
still brings joy for the problem isn't the existence

00:38:32.559 --> 00:38:35.480
of cards in their life it's how they interact

00:38:35.480 --> 00:38:37.920
with them the boundaries the mindsets and the

00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:40.639
triggers so that's where Collectors MD sort of

00:38:40.639 --> 00:38:43.210
takes a different approach from ga where like

00:38:43.210 --> 00:38:45.769
GA is effective, but it can feel sort of cookie

00:38:45.769 --> 00:38:49.349
cutter, right? Same playbook for everyone. We're

00:38:49.349 --> 00:38:51.630
not here to knock that because it's saved a lot

00:38:51.630 --> 00:38:55.429
of lives. And I, you know, I attended GA meetings

00:38:55.429 --> 00:38:59.409
for a number of years and I respect what they

00:38:59.409 --> 00:39:01.809
do and the foundation and the yellow book and

00:39:01.809 --> 00:39:03.570
all of that. I mean, we've taken the yellow book

00:39:03.570 --> 00:39:06.010
and we've adapted it into the Collectors MD

00:39:06.010 --> 00:39:08.889
recovery guide. Like GA is sort of the foundation

00:39:08.889 --> 00:39:12.480
of what we're doing. But with that said, we look

00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:15.699
at recovery in the hobby through sort of a more

00:39:15.699 --> 00:39:19.059
holistic lens. We focus on the person, their

00:39:19.059 --> 00:39:21.980
specific history, their triggers, their goals.

00:39:22.300 --> 00:39:25.320
Like for one collector. abstinence might be wisdom

00:39:25.320 --> 00:39:27.820
but for another it's about learning how to engage

00:39:27.820 --> 00:39:30.699
intentionally again setting budgets defining

00:39:30.699 --> 00:39:33.320
priorities and keeping the hobby a source of

00:39:33.320 --> 00:39:36.219
joy instead of stress so again instead of saying

00:39:36.219 --> 00:39:39.579
one size fits all we just we ask what's the lane

00:39:39.579 --> 00:39:42.239
that actually keeps you safe and grounded and

00:39:42.239 --> 00:39:45.059
and that's the heart of Collectors MD and i would

00:39:45.059 --> 00:39:49.139
you know i agree with you like if you have a

00:39:49.139 --> 00:39:52.679
team like i love the tigers and if if If you

00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:54.559
if I was collecting every rookie the Tigers ever

00:39:54.559 --> 00:39:58.119
had because I wanted to keep it and collect.

00:39:58.239 --> 00:40:00.199
Right. Isn't that the collecting part? You collect

00:40:00.199 --> 00:40:03.159
it to keep. Right. It's when you get into the

00:40:03.159 --> 00:40:06.000
lotto ticket of it all of like, oh, I'm not.

00:40:06.320 --> 00:40:09.239
And, you know, you might buy into a break to

00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:10.679
collect because you might be like, oh, I can

00:40:10.679 --> 00:40:12.699
get my specific team. And that's great. That's

00:40:12.699 --> 00:40:15.219
an easy way to get it without paying the huge

00:40:15.219 --> 00:40:19.800
price on the on the full box. Right. So I definitely.

00:40:21.230 --> 00:40:23.610
I agree with you. I, I, I see that. And I think

00:40:23.610 --> 00:40:25.170
there's ways like those spitballing guys talking

00:40:25.170 --> 00:40:26.469
about, like, just by saying, like, if you want

00:40:26.469 --> 00:40:28.469
a card, just go buy the card. You're not going

00:40:28.469 --> 00:40:31.030
to magically get this one in a million card in

00:40:31.030 --> 00:40:34.030
a box. Just go buy the card. And that makes sense.

00:40:34.110 --> 00:40:36.670
And like, I, I, as a kid enjoyed collecting sets

00:40:36.670 --> 00:40:41.349
and as an adult, after I bottomed out and just

00:40:41.349 --> 00:40:46.480
completely was addicted to cards again. I started

00:40:46.480 --> 00:40:47.880
realizing like, Oh, I can make a lot of sets

00:40:47.880 --> 00:40:49.960
on all these cards that I bought. So I started

00:40:49.960 --> 00:40:51.679
doing that. And that was fun. Like I enjoyed

00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:53.440
the collating and the putting in order and the

00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:55.179
sleeving and the putting in the box and having

00:40:55.179 --> 00:40:58.320
the set. And like, I, I just, I, that part of

00:40:58.320 --> 00:41:01.400
the collecting, I get, I will say if we take

00:41:01.400 --> 00:41:05.460
a step back, all of this is built around some

00:41:05.460 --> 00:41:07.860
cardboard with a baseball player or a sports

00:41:07.860 --> 00:41:10.500
figures name on it. Yeah. Maybe that name is

00:41:10.500 --> 00:41:12.559
in a different color and maybe that color has

00:41:12.559 --> 00:41:15.320
a number on it. And maybe that number color has,

00:41:15.929 --> 00:41:18.170
their handwriting but if you really take a step

00:41:18.170 --> 00:41:22.250
back it is all very stupid like i love sports

00:41:22.250 --> 00:41:24.949
right but it is all just a piece of cardboard

00:41:24.949 --> 00:41:27.409
like it's a piece of cardboard that someone printed

00:41:27.409 --> 00:41:29.710
and said this is worth something and we bought

00:41:29.710 --> 00:41:33.389
into that and i would think to people who aren't

00:41:33.389 --> 00:41:36.710
involved in like my friend adam collects magic

00:41:36.710 --> 00:41:38.969
the gathering cards and he will tell you he was

00:41:38.969 --> 00:41:40.969
fully addicted to collecting magic the gathering

00:41:40.969 --> 00:41:44.210
cards whereas i see magic the gathering and i'm

00:41:44.210 --> 00:41:46.550
like I don't want to play the game and these

00:41:46.550 --> 00:41:49.090
seem useless. And he's like, I want to play the

00:41:49.090 --> 00:41:51.889
game and there's valuable cards. So he started

00:41:51.889 --> 00:41:54.409
as somebody, much like I did when I was younger,

00:41:54.510 --> 00:41:56.349
collecting sports cards just to collect them

00:41:56.349 --> 00:41:58.530
because I liked it. He was playing the game.

00:41:58.929 --> 00:42:01.750
And then one day, you know, where all this kind

00:42:01.750 --> 00:42:04.269
of shifted, like Pokemon and all that, oh, there's

00:42:04.269 --> 00:42:06.250
value in some of the stuff I have. People want

00:42:06.250 --> 00:42:09.070
this stuff. And so now he's more in the brain

00:42:09.070 --> 00:42:12.750
of value in my cards and getting valuable cards.

00:42:13.980 --> 00:42:16.119
But I mean, just again, taking a step back, I

00:42:16.119 --> 00:42:17.860
see magic cards. I'm like, these are stupid.

00:42:18.079 --> 00:42:19.619
Why would anyone spend money on this? Right.

00:42:19.980 --> 00:42:21.539
But I'm sure people would say the same thing

00:42:21.539 --> 00:42:23.760
about anything that anybody collects. I mean,

00:42:23.780 --> 00:42:26.719
I'm guessing you don't have blue hairs in your

00:42:26.719 --> 00:42:30.659
Collectors MD with Hummels, right? I see Hummels

00:42:30.659 --> 00:42:31.860
and I'm like, I want to throw that against a

00:42:31.860 --> 00:42:34.260
brick wall. Right. Because it would be fun to

00:42:34.260 --> 00:42:36.639
break. But other people just love to have it.

00:42:36.659 --> 00:42:38.219
And we like, that's fine. It's life. We're all

00:42:38.219 --> 00:42:39.739
going to have little things that we like to have

00:42:39.739 --> 00:42:42.980
around us. As I've gotten older and through this,

00:42:42.980 --> 00:42:46.380
hopefully this final card thing moment, I mean,

00:42:46.380 --> 00:42:49.280
I still from time to time like to complete sets

00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:51.539
or do something like that. Nothing like I used

00:42:51.539 --> 00:42:57.559
to. But I've kind of realized like why I want

00:42:57.559 --> 00:42:59.980
less stuff. Like I just want less stuff in my

00:42:59.980 --> 00:43:02.880
life. Like the collecting part is you get it.

00:43:03.039 --> 00:43:06.300
Even the sets, like after I'm done building it,

00:43:06.300 --> 00:43:08.219
the building is the fun part. And then I put

00:43:08.219 --> 00:43:11.260
it in a box in the closet and it just sits there.

00:43:11.800 --> 00:43:14.340
And 99 .9 % of the people on the planet don't

00:43:14.340 --> 00:43:16.699
give a damn that I have it. Right. None of my

00:43:16.699 --> 00:43:19.099
friends want to hear me talk about it. The other

00:43:19.099 --> 00:43:21.019
collectors, they might appreciate that I have

00:43:21.019 --> 00:43:22.960
it, but that conversation's two minutes. And

00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:26.039
then it's, so it is like to take a step back

00:43:26.039 --> 00:43:28.760
from it all. It is a strange thing to think about

00:43:28.760 --> 00:43:32.059
of like, Oh, this person does a thing is on a

00:43:32.059 --> 00:43:34.199
piece of cardboard. And I paid how much money

00:43:34.199 --> 00:43:37.380
for that piece of cardboard. Right. Yeah. I mean,

00:43:37.400 --> 00:43:39.300
at the end of the day, if you strip it all the

00:43:39.300 --> 00:43:41.400
way back cards, like you said, they're literally

00:43:41.400 --> 00:43:44.860
just pieces of cardboard with a photograph and

00:43:44.860 --> 00:43:47.380
maybe if you're lucky, some ink on them. And

00:43:47.380 --> 00:43:51.400
that's what makes the whole thing kind of wild.

00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:53.900
And we attach all of this value, all of this

00:43:53.900 --> 00:43:56.380
emotion, all of this financial pressure to something

00:43:56.380 --> 00:43:58.699
that in its purest form is no different than

00:43:58.699 --> 00:44:02.539
the paper in a notebook or, you know. There's

00:44:02.539 --> 00:44:04.860
something very satisfying about looking at these.

00:44:04.980 --> 00:44:08.019
Yeah. Even though I know it happens. That's where

00:44:08.019 --> 00:44:09.539
I was going with that. There's the satisfaction

00:44:09.539 --> 00:44:12.199
of going through and looking. I do like the stats

00:44:12.199 --> 00:44:15.199
on the back, and I do like the pictures. It is

00:44:15.199 --> 00:44:17.519
a beauty. When it's a good -looking card, and

00:44:17.519 --> 00:44:19.719
it's colorful, and maybe a serial number, it

00:44:19.719 --> 00:44:23.039
does look good. I don't know why that satisfies

00:44:23.039 --> 00:44:27.500
me, but it does. Yeah. What it is, it's marketing.

00:44:28.059 --> 00:44:30.739
The manufacturers know what they're doing. They've

00:44:30.739 --> 00:44:34.519
spent years making the product feel more... than

00:44:34.519 --> 00:44:38.159
just cardboard. They add things like jersey swatches,

00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:43.420
you know, bat pieces, shoelaces, different types

00:44:43.420 --> 00:44:46.840
of patches, on -card autographs, you know. They

00:44:46.840 --> 00:44:49.719
experiment with different types of technology.

00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:53.019
They call it refractors, holograms, chromium

00:44:53.019 --> 00:44:55.760
finishes, all these sort of tech -forward materials

00:44:55.760 --> 00:44:58.960
to make the card feel more innovative, more scarce,

00:44:59.059 --> 00:45:02.400
more worth chasing, right? So I think on one

00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:04.440
hand, like you're saying, it's definitely silly.

00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:07.670
You're fighting over... a sliver of cardboard

00:45:07.670 --> 00:45:09.829
but on the other hand they've engineered these

00:45:09.829 --> 00:45:12.090
little pieces of cardboard into something that

00:45:12.090 --> 00:45:15.489
really taps uh you know what we're talking about

00:45:15.489 --> 00:45:18.489
here nostalgia identity and the gambler's rush

00:45:18.489 --> 00:45:21.269
all at once and that combination is just so incredibly

00:45:21.269 --> 00:45:24.510
powerful great explanation the marketing part

00:45:24.510 --> 00:45:26.289
you're right i mean yeah it's it's marketing

00:45:26.289 --> 00:45:30.829
man Fanatics now that Fanatics has basically

00:45:30.829 --> 00:45:34.750
a monopoly in this in the space they are exhausting

00:45:34.750 --> 00:45:40.179
all of their resources to keep the hobby growing

00:45:40.179 --> 00:45:42.719
to keep the hobby moving forward you know not

00:45:42.719 --> 00:45:46.639
just with advancing the sort of innovative technology

00:45:46.639 --> 00:45:51.239
of the cards with the extra uh you know bells

00:45:51.239 --> 00:45:52.960
and whistles that they're they're adding every

00:45:52.960 --> 00:45:56.639
year for instance um this new card that they

00:45:56.639 --> 00:45:58.440
have coming out next year is actually going to

00:45:58.440 --> 00:46:03.769
have the ping pong ball that um you know uh i

00:46:03.769 --> 00:46:06.070
guess coincides with the player and where they

00:46:06.070 --> 00:46:08.389
were drafted right you know how they do the ping

00:46:08.389 --> 00:46:10.989
pong balls in uh the nba draft lottery and then

00:46:10.989 --> 00:46:13.050
the same thing with the the baseball they're

00:46:13.050 --> 00:46:14.630
taking those ping pong balls they're putting

00:46:14.630 --> 00:46:18.750
them inside of cards i literally plastic in my

00:46:18.750 --> 00:46:20.610
card and i'm going to be told this is from draft

00:46:20.610 --> 00:46:24.389
night 2022 well yeah it's literally an entire

00:46:24.389 --> 00:46:26.269
it's not even just a piece of the ping pong ball

00:46:26.269 --> 00:46:30.219
it's the entire ping pong ball sort of uh like

00:46:30.219 --> 00:46:34.000
engulfed in the card it's like i i commented

00:46:34.000 --> 00:46:36.659
on they used to throw them away and like don't

00:46:36.659 --> 00:46:39.239
throw those away right i was like people are

00:46:39.239 --> 00:46:43.179
actually going to play beer pong with these to

00:46:43.179 --> 00:46:44.780
try to go viral they're going to take one of

00:46:44.780 --> 00:46:46.099
these they're just going to start playing beer

00:46:46.099 --> 00:46:47.380
pong with it or they're going to start playing

00:46:47.380 --> 00:46:50.280
ping pong and uh they're going to try to make

00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:52.500
a viral video with with one of the lower end

00:46:52.500 --> 00:46:55.599
uh rookies or whatever um they're doing stuff

00:46:55.599 --> 00:46:58.969
like that another thing that's I will admittedly

00:46:58.969 --> 00:47:01.510
say it's pretty cool. I'm not overly cynical.

00:47:01.610 --> 00:47:04.610
I still love the hobby. Excuse me. I still love

00:47:04.610 --> 00:47:07.289
collecting. One thing that Fanatics is doing

00:47:07.289 --> 00:47:09.889
that I think is pretty cool are these debut patches.

00:47:10.130 --> 00:47:13.940
And not just the debut patches, but... There's

00:47:13.940 --> 00:47:16.980
a small detail that I don't think a lot of football

00:47:16.980 --> 00:47:19.239
fans might have noticed last night, and that

00:47:19.239 --> 00:47:22.139
was Saquon Barkley, who was the Offensive Player

00:47:22.139 --> 00:47:25.699
of the Year in 2024, the 2024 season, last season.

00:47:26.179 --> 00:47:30.139
His NFL shield on his jersey, unlike all the

00:47:30.139 --> 00:47:33.000
other players, was actually gold. And so what

00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:34.880
they're doing is they're taking that shield,

00:47:35.099 --> 00:47:37.039
and every game he plays this year, he's going

00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:39.239
to have that unique shield, along with the Defensive

00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:44.170
Player of the Year, the MVP. handful of other

00:47:44.170 --> 00:47:46.489
players that were uh acknowledged as part of

00:47:46.489 --> 00:47:51.070
like the nfl uh rewards or um awards or whatever

00:47:51.070 --> 00:47:53.409
they're called you know these days but um they're

00:47:53.409 --> 00:47:55.409
taking those pieces they're putting them into

00:47:55.409 --> 00:47:59.489
cards and those are highly sought after uh pieces

00:47:59.489 --> 00:48:03.690
right they actually carry some sort of legitimate

00:48:03.690 --> 00:48:09.429
like value beyond just being uh you know a card

00:48:09.429 --> 00:48:12.679
with a relic from like a not from a specific

00:48:12.679 --> 00:48:16.099
gamer event like they so often use and like a

00:48:16.099 --> 00:48:18.159
lot of times they use like player worn which

00:48:18.159 --> 00:48:19.880
basically just means the player put the jersey

00:48:19.880 --> 00:48:22.760
on and took it off in front of a rep from tops

00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:24.460
and then they took that jersey and they cut it

00:48:24.460 --> 00:48:25.900
up and they put it in a million different cards

00:48:25.900 --> 00:48:29.719
these uh these shields or these debut patches

00:48:29.719 --> 00:48:31.719
which is basically from a player's first game

00:48:31.719 --> 00:48:35.739
ever um are being you know, manufactured into

00:48:35.739 --> 00:48:37.800
the cards and then being placed in these sets

00:48:37.800 --> 00:48:40.460
so that people can chase them. And that's why

00:48:40.460 --> 00:48:42.000
they're so valuable. I think the Paul schemes

00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:46.699
sold for like $1 .5 million to Dick sporting

00:48:46.699 --> 00:48:49.000
goods last year. I don't know if you saw that,

00:48:49.000 --> 00:48:54.320
but then they, they had it up for display at

00:48:54.320 --> 00:48:58.159
Fanatics Fest this past summer. And, you know,

00:48:58.360 --> 00:48:59.980
Olivia Dunn was there. I mean, they make a whole

00:48:59.980 --> 00:49:02.360
ordeal. They make a whole circus out of it, right?

00:49:02.739 --> 00:49:06.300
Olivia Dunn's walking around the floor. She's

00:49:06.300 --> 00:49:08.619
looking for a Paul Skeen's card. She makes a

00:49:08.619 --> 00:49:13.219
deal with a breaker. That video goes viral. Fanatics

00:49:13.219 --> 00:49:18.179
reposts it. It's all premeditated. It's all premeditated

00:49:18.179 --> 00:49:20.179
marketing. They know exactly what they're doing.

00:49:20.460 --> 00:49:22.719
They're partnering with the right athletes. They're

00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:26.139
partnering with the right influencers, and they're

00:49:26.139 --> 00:49:31.329
printing money. hand over fist and that's and

00:49:31.329 --> 00:49:33.349
they're creating I mean the same thing we look

00:49:33.349 --> 00:49:35.650
for in recovery is connection and they are creating

00:49:35.650 --> 00:49:37.789
connection because if you have a little piece

00:49:37.789 --> 00:49:39.510
of a jersey that was worn in the game that you

00:49:39.510 --> 00:49:41.610
watched you're like holy crap it's like I was

00:49:41.610 --> 00:49:44.409
there and they give you that connection to the

00:49:44.409 --> 00:49:46.750
athlete I guess that's why people like autographs

00:49:46.750 --> 00:49:49.110
is it gives you that little like his hand touched

00:49:49.110 --> 00:49:52.150
this right which is why I was that close to him

00:49:52.150 --> 00:49:55.130
on card autographs versus sticker autographs

00:49:55.130 --> 00:49:59.840
yeah which is another hot topic in the hobby.

00:50:00.019 --> 00:50:03.019
Stickers are stupid. Right. The players just

00:50:03.019 --> 00:50:04.679
sign these sheets of stickers and then they slap

00:50:04.679 --> 00:50:06.639
the sticker on the card. And honestly, you know,

00:50:06.679 --> 00:50:08.059
I was thinking about this popped in my head the

00:50:08.059 --> 00:50:10.019
other day and I was like, none of us would have

00:50:10.019 --> 00:50:13.119
any idea if it was just a random dude signing

00:50:13.119 --> 00:50:15.739
that player. And Tops just slapped their authentic.

00:50:15.980 --> 00:50:17.260
No one's, like you said, no one's regulating

00:50:17.260 --> 00:50:20.300
them. No one's checking them. Oh, a Tops person

00:50:20.300 --> 00:50:22.619
was there watching them sign it. Okay, I guess

00:50:22.619 --> 00:50:23.940
that's all we have to go on because you told

00:50:23.940 --> 00:50:26.530
us that. This was authenticated by them, maybe,

00:50:26.670 --> 00:50:30.070
but we would have no idea, really. It's one of

00:50:30.070 --> 00:50:33.070
the longest standing debates in the industry.

00:50:33.170 --> 00:50:37.630
And there was actually a massive scandal that

00:50:37.630 --> 00:50:40.150
came out earlier this year where one of the biggest

00:50:40.150 --> 00:50:47.190
names or one of the biggest resellers in the

00:50:47.190 --> 00:50:53.110
hobby when it comes to memorabilia was basically

00:50:53.110 --> 00:50:58.190
found. to have been artificially producing like

00:50:58.190 --> 00:51:02.170
something like 50 % of the autographs he was

00:51:02.170 --> 00:51:07.309
selling. And so hundreds, if not thousands, tens

00:51:07.309 --> 00:51:12.230
of thousands of fake autographs are, and these

00:51:12.230 --> 00:51:14.269
are autographs that have been authenticated by

00:51:14.269 --> 00:51:18.010
Fanatics and by PSA and Beckett. So it got by

00:51:18.010 --> 00:51:21.630
them? Yeah, because he was using like these,

00:51:23.090 --> 00:51:26.869
I would imagine AI would create a signature.

00:51:26.909 --> 00:51:28.449
That's what I was going to say. He was using

00:51:28.449 --> 00:51:32.090
these machines, these devices that could basically

00:51:32.090 --> 00:51:35.849
hand trace the signature of the player and then

00:51:35.849 --> 00:51:41.510
reproduce it on a jersey or a helmet. A lot of

00:51:41.510 --> 00:51:43.929
times they resell cards that weren't originally

00:51:43.929 --> 00:51:48.210
autographed cards. They were just non -auto cards

00:51:48.210 --> 00:51:51.269
and then they would autograph them. He was using

00:51:51.269 --> 00:51:54.309
devices like that. The story itself took a really

00:51:54.309 --> 00:51:58.010
dark turn because while the FBI was investigating

00:51:58.010 --> 00:52:01.130
him, he ended up putting out like a confession,

00:52:01.369 --> 00:52:05.929
basically a confessional on like Facebook saying

00:52:05.929 --> 00:52:08.909
like, yeah, I did this. All these autographs

00:52:08.909 --> 00:52:11.869
are fake. They're floating around in cyberspace

00:52:11.869 --> 00:52:14.449
on the app, like eBay, all these marketplaces,

00:52:14.510 --> 00:52:18.769
like basically you guys have no idea what's real

00:52:18.769 --> 00:52:23.219
and what's not. And so when they. came to arrest

00:52:23.219 --> 00:52:26.460
him um you know they bashed down his door they

00:52:26.460 --> 00:52:28.280
found him dead in his home he killed himself

00:52:28.280 --> 00:52:33.780
um which is crazy but he was looking at a significant

00:52:33.780 --> 00:52:40.820
amount of um time in jail yes fraud all sorts

00:52:40.820 --> 00:52:43.420
i mean he was doing it for like felony fraud

00:52:43.420 --> 00:52:46.400
and several decades and it was like hundreds

00:52:46.400 --> 00:52:48.820
of millions of dollars worth of inventory yeah

00:52:48.820 --> 00:52:55.480
i'll say decades Oh yeah. I, I would imagine

00:52:55.480 --> 00:52:57.659
AI is going to call it like I, I heard about

00:52:57.659 --> 00:52:59.360
the scanners this year and we got, I gotta, we

00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:01.500
gotta wrap up here, but I wanted, I want to do

00:53:01.500 --> 00:53:03.260
this again. Cause there's so like the convergence

00:53:03.260 --> 00:53:06.639
of, of, of collecting and gambling is, is fascinating

00:53:06.639 --> 00:53:09.400
to me. And here you are. So we might as well

00:53:09.400 --> 00:53:11.139
have more conversations. Plus I want to talk

00:53:11.139 --> 00:53:18.039
more of where gambling and cards converge in

00:53:18.039 --> 00:53:22.400
talking about. perhaps grooming kids to get gambling

00:53:22.400 --> 00:53:24.199
-like behavior to then be able to gamble later

00:53:24.199 --> 00:53:28.420
in life. When we talked before, we talked a little

00:53:28.420 --> 00:53:30.340
bit about that, but I want to talk about that,

00:53:30.380 --> 00:53:33.619
but we don't have time today. I sent you the

00:53:33.619 --> 00:53:36.000
link, by the way. I see it in the chat. I'll

00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:40.880
grab that and look at it. Thank you. $350 million

00:53:40.880 --> 00:53:46.260
in sales was the number over 20 years. Is there

00:53:46.260 --> 00:53:50.039
a list of the cards that he was saying? They're

00:53:50.039 --> 00:53:52.079
still sorting it out. I don't know the details,

00:53:52.300 --> 00:53:54.239
but it says that... Maybe it's best we just all

00:53:54.239 --> 00:53:55.920
don't know and keep assuming that it's real.

00:53:56.260 --> 00:53:58.280
Right. I mean, people, it's like... And then

00:53:58.280 --> 00:54:02.000
there were rumors that Luka Doncic's mother was

00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:05.239
signing for him when he was a rookie. There were

00:54:05.239 --> 00:54:07.300
rumors that... I think more players should refuse

00:54:07.300 --> 00:54:09.099
to sign and just sign their own stuff and sell

00:54:09.099 --> 00:54:10.639
their own stuff because they would make the money.

00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:13.659
You're just making top money. It's in their player

00:54:13.659 --> 00:54:15.900
contracts when they sign. I mean, they're going

00:54:15.900 --> 00:54:18.300
to all strike eventually, right? And renegotiate.

00:54:18.340 --> 00:54:20.650
Right. but they but they're they're required

00:54:20.650 --> 00:54:22.769
to to do this stuff and like a lot of players

00:54:22.769 --> 00:54:24.829
are just like no i'm not doing this and i gotta

00:54:24.829 --> 00:54:27.389
tell you it would be annoying to sign 2 000 stickers

00:54:27.389 --> 00:54:29.469
oh yeah for sure but they're who would want to

00:54:29.469 --> 00:54:31.309
do that and i can't believe some of them look

00:54:31.309 --> 00:54:33.550
spot on every time and i'm like mine would be

00:54:33.550 --> 00:54:36.570
so different every time yeah i mean some of these

00:54:36.570 --> 00:54:40.289
guys really respect the craft and uh appreciate

00:54:40.289 --> 00:54:43.699
like you know that fans like good penmanship.

00:54:43.760 --> 00:54:46.780
Like for instance, Trevor Lawrence signing for

00:54:46.780 --> 00:54:49.239
a fan makes sense to me, but sitting down for

00:54:49.239 --> 00:54:52.500
a corporate guy to sign 2000 stickers just seems

00:54:52.500 --> 00:54:55.280
pointless. Yeah. What I'm saying is there are

00:54:55.280 --> 00:54:58.099
players who, who care about that stuff and they

00:54:58.099 --> 00:55:00.239
will sign perfectly every single time. Like Trevor

00:55:00.239 --> 00:55:03.880
Lawrence, Justin Herbert, you know, like some

00:55:03.880 --> 00:55:06.980
of the older guys, Mariano Rivera, Derek Jeter,

00:55:07.039 --> 00:55:10.659
Ken Griffey, Andre Dawson. These are guys that.

00:55:11.119 --> 00:55:13.079
you know are known to have really really beautiful

00:55:13.079 --> 00:55:16.360
signatures and sign you know meticulously every

00:55:16.360 --> 00:55:18.860
single time they take the time and effort to

00:55:18.860 --> 00:55:22.239
uh make sure that all of their memorabilia that

00:55:22.239 --> 00:55:25.300
you know i like that and i like the hands of

00:55:25.300 --> 00:55:28.739
their fans look nice you know they've just they've

00:55:28.739 --> 00:55:31.599
saturated it all and turned every i mean the

00:55:31.599 --> 00:55:34.380
ping pong ball thing jesus yeah and that's just

00:55:34.380 --> 00:55:38.539
that's just the tip of the iceberg man um well

00:55:38.539 --> 00:55:40.840
i'm glad i'm not where i used to be because i'm

00:55:40.840 --> 00:55:43.199
glad i'm not involved in any of this i did buy

00:55:43.199 --> 00:55:47.539
one blaster of tops chrome 2025 okay and i'm

00:55:47.539 --> 00:55:52.659
looking at that comparing it with 21 22 and i'm

00:55:52.659 --> 00:55:56.400
going god these look like just the the card looks

00:55:56.860 --> 00:55:59.440
bet like the edge like it's not as nice as other

00:55:59.440 --> 00:56:01.559
chromes it looks like i don't like the design

00:56:01.559 --> 00:56:04.340
this year personally 25 looks cheaper to me than

00:56:04.340 --> 00:56:06.619
other years and i'm like why would anyone these

00:56:06.619 --> 00:56:09.440
are how much in a jumbo no way i'm not a fan

00:56:09.440 --> 00:56:11.539
of this year's design i liked last year's design

00:56:11.539 --> 00:56:17.000
in the year before honestly 21 through 24 they

00:56:17.000 --> 00:56:19.880
were all pretty solid i wasn't crazy about 2020

00:56:19.880 --> 00:56:24.559
and then this year's a little bit funky but whatever

00:56:25.579 --> 00:56:29.679
tops tops is gonna have all the sports the other

00:56:29.679 --> 00:56:33.119
thing is i know we gotta wrap here but um you

00:56:33.119 --> 00:56:34.980
know i mentioned that Fanatics is becoming a

00:56:34.980 --> 00:56:37.900
monopoly and they already if they're if you know

00:56:37.900 --> 00:56:40.679
they aren't already uh panini is on their way

00:56:40.679 --> 00:56:43.099
out but they continue to kick the can in court

00:56:43.099 --> 00:56:45.860
so we don't know on their way out meaning they

00:56:45.860 --> 00:56:48.380
won't do the unlicensed cards like they won't

00:56:48.380 --> 00:56:53.190
they won't have license I enjoy Panini baseball,

00:56:53.349 --> 00:56:55.409
the prisms, not all the other bullshit. Well,

00:56:55.409 --> 00:56:57.989
yeah, I don't mind them either. And half the

00:56:57.989 --> 00:57:01.570
reason is because it's so much cheaper and accessible

00:57:01.570 --> 00:57:07.369
than some of the stuff. I mean, it's all subjective,

00:57:07.510 --> 00:57:11.329
but I agree. I think prism has a sharp look to

00:57:11.329 --> 00:57:14.789
it. But like, you know, again, prism versus top

00:57:14.789 --> 00:57:18.030
scrum is one of the longest standing debates

00:57:18.030 --> 00:57:21.599
that will. i mean i could do without all the

00:57:21.599 --> 00:57:25.719
other was it chronicles has the like 20 different

00:57:25.719 --> 00:57:28.239
types of chronicles you can get yeah they don't

00:57:28.239 --> 00:57:30.840
even make chronicles anymore but uh yeah basically

00:57:30.840 --> 00:57:32.880
it would take all the leftover sets that they

00:57:32.880 --> 00:57:35.179
didn't make that year and they would just put

00:57:35.179 --> 00:57:37.699
them all in one set which was chronicles chronicles

00:57:37.699 --> 00:57:40.760
chronicles spectrum right it was all like the

00:57:40.760 --> 00:57:45.809
sort of uh mid -tier mid to low tier um sets

00:57:45.809 --> 00:57:48.170
that they've made in the past or sort of paying

00:57:48.170 --> 00:57:51.690
homage to an old set um that they were just put

00:57:51.690 --> 00:57:53.570
in one giant set they haven't done that in a

00:57:53.570 --> 00:57:56.250
while uh tops did something very similar last

00:57:56.250 --> 00:57:59.289
year though with a set called composite where

00:57:59.289 --> 00:58:01.650
they they basically were previewing all of the

00:58:01.650 --> 00:58:05.099
um sets that would be coming out for the upcoming

00:58:05.099 --> 00:58:08.340
cycle or the upcoming season for football and

00:58:08.340 --> 00:58:10.860
basketball. They, they were testing out some,

00:58:10.880 --> 00:58:13.900
some of the sets that have since come out as

00:58:13.900 --> 00:58:16.519
standalone sets this year. It's very interesting

00:58:16.519 --> 00:58:20.199
the way they go about that. Again, I could talk

00:58:20.199 --> 00:58:23.639
about each one of these topics alone, you know,

00:58:23.639 --> 00:58:25.460
for hours. I want to keep going, but I have an

00:58:25.460 --> 00:58:30.469
appointment. I do. I mean, I. I get it with collecting

00:58:30.469 --> 00:58:33.289
it. I'm very guilty of it. But I went down a

00:58:33.289 --> 00:58:35.630
bad path with baseball cards because I got into

00:58:35.630 --> 00:58:37.570
that gambling aspect. Not even the gambling.

00:58:37.570 --> 00:58:40.210
I just got addicted to the process of looking

00:58:40.210 --> 00:58:43.409
on eBay for a break and then participating in

00:58:43.409 --> 00:58:45.530
that break. And, of course, I was chasing a player

00:58:45.530 --> 00:58:47.630
at the time, too, which didn't help. And I got

00:58:47.630 --> 00:58:49.610
in deep so quickly. I didn't even realize it

00:58:49.610 --> 00:58:51.429
because I was spreading it out on credit cards.

00:58:51.570 --> 00:58:53.530
And I was like, oh, I only spent this much. And

00:58:53.530 --> 00:58:56.730
then when my wife found out, oh, no. It was like

00:58:56.730 --> 00:58:59.360
double what I thought. Double. Because I wasn't

00:58:59.360 --> 00:59:01.000
tracking it because I wanted to ignore it because

00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:03.219
I didn't want to know what I was spending. And

00:59:03.219 --> 00:59:05.840
when she found out, that shit became real. And

00:59:05.840 --> 00:59:11.119
that's usually what happens. It's not an unusual

00:59:11.119 --> 00:59:14.019
story. These are the stories that we hear every

00:59:14.019 --> 00:59:16.159
single week in our weekly peer support meetings.

00:59:16.400 --> 00:59:19.019
And tell you what, some of them are horrifying.

00:59:20.099 --> 00:59:23.130
We literally have had people. join meetings.

00:59:23.369 --> 00:59:25.110
And, you know, these are completely anonymous

00:59:25.110 --> 00:59:28.170
and confidential meetings. So I would never share

00:59:28.170 --> 00:59:31.250
names or refer to specific people, but just to

00:59:31.250 --> 00:59:34.150
generalize, there are people who literally will

00:59:34.150 --> 00:59:36.329
break down during their shares. You know, the

00:59:36.329 --> 00:59:38.449
way we share therapy and GA, we do the same thing

00:59:38.449 --> 00:59:41.550
with Collectors MD because their wives are, you

00:59:41.550 --> 00:59:44.510
know, filing for divorce or they're in legal

00:59:44.510 --> 00:59:47.219
trouble. Because, you know, they went too far

00:59:47.219 --> 00:59:48.980
with the collecting and started using maybe a

00:59:48.980 --> 00:59:51.019
company card or something like that. Like there's

00:59:51.019 --> 00:59:53.239
a lot of really, really scary things going on.

00:59:53.320 --> 00:59:55.579
And when you start peeling back the onion, it's

00:59:55.579 --> 01:00:00.639
like this mirrors gambling, gambling addiction,

01:00:00.739 --> 01:00:06.199
you know, to the fullest extent. And the fact

01:00:06.199 --> 01:00:08.860
that there's no guardrails, no regulation, no

01:00:08.860 --> 01:00:13.539
tools and resources for recovery or even any

01:00:13.539 --> 01:00:16.539
sort of acknowledgement. Like when you see an

01:00:16.539 --> 01:00:20.500
ad or a commercial for a casino or a sports book

01:00:20.500 --> 01:00:22.920
and it says, if you or you know somebody who

01:00:22.920 --> 01:00:25.019
has a problem, call 1 -800 -GAMBLER and they

01:00:25.019 --> 01:00:26.760
provide you with the tools and resources. I mean,

01:00:26.800 --> 01:00:31.639
it's minimal, but it's at least, you know, something

01:00:31.639 --> 01:00:35.400
that they're doing to. help people that need

01:00:35.400 --> 01:00:37.260
it, right? It's a part of their corporate responsibility

01:00:37.260 --> 01:00:39.739
to do that. None of that exists in the hobby

01:00:39.739 --> 01:00:43.019
space. None of that exists in sports cards, TCG.

01:00:43.679 --> 01:00:45.920
Fanatics looks the other way, not looks the other

01:00:45.920 --> 01:00:48.659
way. But yeah, that's what Collectors MD is all

01:00:48.659 --> 01:00:51.239
about. And so we are looking to, we are pushing

01:00:51.239 --> 01:00:53.840
to change that. Where can people find you? With

01:00:53.840 --> 01:00:57.199
the right folks. You can find us at Collectors MD

01:00:57.199 --> 01:01:00.159
.com. Yep, Collectors MD. I'll put it in the show

01:01:00.159 --> 01:01:04.230
notes too. Totally. Appreciate that, Brian. It's

01:01:04.230 --> 01:01:08.389
collectorsmd .com. We're also on, you know, pretty

01:01:08.389 --> 01:01:11.710
much all social media platforms, Instagram, Facebook,

01:01:11.989 --> 01:01:15.070
X, TikTok, YouTube. I mentioned we have two podcasts,

01:01:15.349 --> 01:01:19.090
sorry, three podcasts now. LinkedIn, Discord,

01:01:19.469 --> 01:01:22.489
working on getting our Reddit page back up. It

01:01:22.489 --> 01:01:26.250
was banned for the dumbest reason, but hopefully

01:01:26.250 --> 01:01:31.599
we can. fix that soon. Um, and we are also, um,

01:01:31.880 --> 01:01:35.079
you know, active across the entire community,

01:01:35.219 --> 01:01:38.179
the, the hobby industry. Um, you know, like I

01:01:38.179 --> 01:01:40.679
said, I've been on a, on a handful of podcasts.

01:01:40.860 --> 01:01:42.940
I'm actually going to be on the Geoff Wilson show

01:01:42.940 --> 01:01:44.960
next week, which I'm really excited about. Um,

01:01:45.119 --> 01:01:49.460
he is a well -known name in the hobby. Um, and

01:01:49.460 --> 01:01:51.480
so mine is but a drop in the bucket for you.

01:01:51.519 --> 01:01:54.570
His, his numbers will. That's not even what it's

01:01:54.570 --> 01:01:56.269
about. It's just about having these conversations.

01:01:56.329 --> 01:01:57.750
Well, no, that's good. You'll get a lot of eyes

01:01:57.750 --> 01:01:59.469
on what you're doing. Right, exactly. I'm sure

01:01:59.469 --> 01:02:01.010
there's a lot of people in his audience who could

01:02:01.010 --> 01:02:04.829
use the group atmosphere that you provide. Right,

01:02:04.889 --> 01:02:07.590
which I'm very grateful for. That's awesome.

01:02:07.650 --> 01:02:10.269
That's amazing, actually, that you're doing that.

01:02:10.929 --> 01:02:13.230
I do want to formally thank you, Brian, for having

01:02:13.230 --> 01:02:15.610
me on your show and for having this conversation.

01:02:16.070 --> 01:02:18.949
Well, formally, I'm happy to have you. Yeah.

01:02:19.230 --> 01:02:21.789
No, but this - No, I think what you're doing

01:02:21.789 --> 01:02:23.219
is amazing because I've been - talking about

01:02:23.219 --> 01:02:24.639
this before on these and then all of a sudden

01:02:24.639 --> 01:02:26.500
you like i said you popped up i was watching

01:02:26.500 --> 01:02:28.139
spitball and they were talking about you and

01:02:28.139 --> 01:02:31.360
i was like wow someone's doing that that's cool

01:02:31.360 --> 01:02:33.059
i should reach out to that guy and then we're

01:02:33.059 --> 01:02:35.039
like two three weeks later rob put us in touch

01:02:35.039 --> 01:02:38.559
and i was like oh my gosh yeah So no, that was

01:02:38.559 --> 01:02:40.039
awesome. I think what you're doing is great.

01:02:40.099 --> 01:02:42.460
You're a good dude. And thank you so much for

01:02:42.460 --> 01:02:44.199
doing this. But let's do this again. This was

01:02:44.199 --> 01:02:46.079
invigorating for me because I haven't recorded

01:02:46.079 --> 01:02:47.579
a podcast in a little bit. So this was nice for

01:02:47.579 --> 01:02:49.940
me. So I appreciate it. Yeah, of course. Thank

01:02:49.940 --> 01:02:51.760
you. I will let you know when this is up and

01:02:51.760 --> 01:02:53.679
we'll talk on the other side. I got to run. All

01:02:53.679 --> 01:02:55.980
right, Brian. Sounds good, man. Take care, Alyx.

01:02:56.699 --> 01:02:58.039
Talk to you soon. Bye.