Hello and welcome to All in the Addicted Gambler's
Podcast. My name is Brian and I have not placed
a bet since July of 2014. However, some of you
know that I did go down a route with some baseball
cards a few years back. And that is relevant
today because we're talking to Alyx from Collectors MD.
Alyx is somebody with lived experience with gambling
harm as well as... a collector who discovered
that collecting can get a little like gambling
and behaviors. And he's here to talk about his
awesome, I mean, first one I know about, recovery
group, recovery website, recovery ecosystem for
not just card collectors, but collectors of all
kinds. Correct, Alyx? That is correct. Collectors
of all kinds. Alyx, thanks for doing this. How
are you? Why don't you share a little bit about
yourself and your background and how you got
to... to create Collectors MD because it's crazy
that I heard about it on a YouTube channel I
watch. And then you emailed, not because I reached
out, but because somebody else was like, oh,
you should talk to Brian. Yeah, that is crazy
how things work, especially on the internet.
And we can get into a little bit more of that
in a bit. But yeah, Brian, thanks so much for
having me. For those of you who are not familiar
with me, most of you probably aren't. My name
is Alyx Effron. Um, I come from both sides of
the conversation. I've been a lifelong, uh, collector,
uh, of all things, sports cards, sneakers, memorabilia,
um, jerseys, hats, you name it. I've, I've, uh,
when I was a kid, you know, uh, there were these
things called, are you talking about like figurines?
Uh, I, I'm talking about like anything like now,
what do they have? The Funko pops, but like back
in the day, like when we were, younger it would
have been like starting lineup figures i collected
horror figures yeah like michael myers and stuff
uh but i was just starting lineup figures did
you ever get those no i don't think so there
was a brand called mcfarlane mcfarlane oh yeah
yeah they did some horror ones too yeah yeah
they did like ultra sort of realistic uh figurines
um sports players pop culture icons um characters
and shows and movies so i got into that a little
bit as like a you know teenager high schooler
and then i kind of grew out of it my younger
brother was really destructive and he ruined
a lot of my things um so i kind of just like
lost interest and focused on you know what was
in the present but i had my funko pop um you
know oh okay for sure uh maybe for like a year
But yeah, you name it, I collected it. Watches
was huge for me for a long time. Professionally,
I've spent, well, I should say I'm a lifelong
collector, but I've also lived through gambling
addiction. I want to make that abundantly clear
right off the bat. Professionally, I've spent
years in marketing and brand development. And
personally, I know the highs, the lows, and the
consequences that can come with compulsive behavior.
And so out of that mix, I started Collectors MD.
And so what it is at its core, it's a support
-based community for people in the card and collectibles
hobby. And like you said, Brian, it could be
any sort of... collectible vertical. People get
hooked on any and everything these days. As we
know, it can even be as simple as just compulsive
spending, retail therapy, people who just can't
stop ordering crap on eBay or Amazon. And so
these people are quietly struggling with the
same cycles that you see in gambling, things
like chasing losses, chasing the next hit, losing
track of time, money, and mental health. And
so what we do is we host weekly peer support
meetings, very similar to Gamblers Anonymous,
but we also do quite a bit of other work. We
create... daily content. So we have these things
called daily reflections, which are essentially
journal entries that allow people to sort of
reflect and take a step back and reevaluate where
they are in their collecting journey. We publish
those every single day. We have a number of other
series like our collector spotlight, which features
a collector who collects with intention once
a month. We also have three podcasts, The Collector's
Compass behind the brakes and Collectors MD features
where, you know, similar to what we're doing
here, I've been doing kind of the podcast circuit
over the last couple of months. And so I've been
syndicating all of that content into one streamlined
platform, which we're calling features. But but
anyway, you know, we're doing a lot in this space
and, you know, we have a growing network of therapists
and recovery partners. We're going out our. um
referral network uh and we're trying to create
a space that um you know i wish had existed when
i was stuck in these cycles you know where people
can talk openly without shame and get real tools
and resources um and a community around them
right and the reason this matters is because
the collecting world the hobby whatever you want
to call it has shifted it used to be all about
nostalgia you know building sets telling stories
sharing stories it was legit collecting it was
like getting and hanging on to right right and
now it's turned into getting and flipping exactly
uh and then that's because of today's break culture
that's what we call it you know breaking we can
get into that in a bit um high -end products
and 24 7 marketplaces like Fanatics Live and
Whatnot and now mirrors gambling almost to a
T, right? So when you're ripping a pack, you're
essentially, you know, taking a bet. You're placing
a bet. You might get something like a life -changing
card or you might walk away with absolutely nothing.
And the dopamine hit is the same as pulling a
slot, you know, a slot lever or sweating a, you
know, 10 -leg parlay. And for kids, that's especially
dangerous, right? This next generation is who
we're really... um looking out for because it
conditions them to normalize risk reward chasing
at a really young age and so Collectors MD is
here to help the hobby evolve responsibly we
don't want to kill collecting we're not here
to cancel culture cancel collecting cancel break
culture we still want to be a part of it to an
extent right but what we want to do is make it
healthier, safer, and more sustainable. And that
means having these honest conversations about
risk, building guardrails, helping people remember
that collecting really should be about passion,
purpose, connection, right? Clarity, intention.
These are all adjectives that we use to describe
how we should be thinking about collecting as
opposed to what we're seeing a lot of in this
space, which is compulsion. So I'm really excited
about the direction that Collectors MD is headed
in. We've had a tremendous amount of support
in a very short time, doing some really, really
exciting things in the space. I've been fortunate
to be welcomed on a handful of podcasts that
are well -established and reach vast audiences.
And so we're growing the platform. You know,
it's more than just a weekly meeting. It's really
becoming a full -fledged movement with all these
different branches. I mentioned the content,
the referral network. The community, in addition
to the weekly meetings, we also have a group
chat. We have a discord so people can stay connected
in between these Wednesday night meetings. And
people are also contributing, which is really
great. So I mentioned the daily reflection. I'm
not the only one writing those. We have members
from our community contributing almost every
day. So that's been amazing to see. And we've
seen some incredible. stories you know both good
and bad in these weekly meetings and some of
them um you know get really really emotional
you hear some of the things that are happening
to people out there and it's it's mind -boggling
that you know sports cards pokemon cards you
know can have this type of impact on on people
the same uh sort of insidious um ways that that
things like gambling alcohol and substance abuse
and addiction can have. So it's a, it's a scary
place, but again, we're, we're doing what we
can to provide the people that need it with the
tools, resources, you know, and a safe space
for them to be able to turn to, because like
you said, nothing like this existed before collectors
MD. I want to, I'm, I want to hold, I have some
card collecting specific things I want to talk
about, but other than cards what some of the
people who are part of Collectors MD what other
than cards are people collecting that they have
found that they are running into harm with it's
really mostly been cards up to this point you
know like uh we are starting to explore these
other verticals and we're seeing it across other
verticals but there's something very unique about
sports cards tcg pop culture cards whatever you
want to call them because there's also the non
-sports cards that aren't technically tcg like
the marvel and the disney right that have become
insanely popular um but the the nature of it
right with uh the risk reward and not knowing
what you're getting which makes it mirror gambling
like to a t like i said before is what sucks
people in and spits them out right when you're
buying something like a watch or a pair of sneakers
you generally know what you're getting you know
you might have that impulsive itch to to buy
something maybe you can't afford or something
that you've had your eye on that you know you
probably shouldn't buy but you do it anyway like
that's a part of the cycle but it's not a one
-to -one as it relates to the cards right because
with the cards you're buying a hobby box you're
buying a pack maybe you're joining a break and
you don't know what you're getting you don't
know what your return is gonna look like, right?
And if we're looking at it from just a monetary
standpoint, a lot of people are just chasing
profits. People wanna spend. 100 bucks and get
back 200 bucks the same way you would sit down
at a blackjack table and start playing and you
know either winner you lose same thing when you
place a you know a sports bet last night the
eagles and cowboys played you know half the country
was on the cowboys the other half was on the
eagles half of them doubled their money half
of them didn't now of course you have things
like parlays and prop bets and odds and all these
other you know baked in um sort of uh extracurricular
uh type of of betting but um generally speaking
it's it's a 50 50 uh you know chance at profiting
and so what people don't realize is that with
with the cards you don't have a 50 50 chance
of doubling your money you don't even have a
50 50 chance of making back your money as a matter
of fact in most cases there's something like
uh five percent chance of making back your money
and maybe a two percent chance of profiting at
all right so um people who are new to the hobby
especially young kids just have this uh skewed
perception based on what they're hearing what
they're being fed in um on social media by the
breakers oh yeah popular videos are ones where
cards get pulled and so they see that oh i could
get that not knowing that there's thousands of
us like deeply regretting many of the purchases
we made of jumbo hobby boxes exactly so it's
yeah it's um it's a lot of just uh misinformation
being passed around um really really um what
adjective to use misleading marketing um that
these manufacturers the platforms the breakers
are using every day to lure these people in People
get sucked into these cycles. Maybe they have
beginner's luck and they hit big in their first
break or their first box. And suddenly they think
that this is the norm and they can do this again,
right? They can repeat what just happened. And
that's never the case. Nobody is going to be
able to open a box and 10X their money time and
time again. It just doesn't work that way, right?
Like it would be the equivalent of just hitting
on 10 leg parlays over and over and over again.
That doesn't happen. Right. Your odds are exponentially
lower or I should say astronomically lower than
that of a typical sports bet. Like I was saying,
unless you're looking at like, you know, these
long odds teasers and parlays that that people
also get get hooked on. It's like insane how
minimal your chances actually are. And so. um
people don't realize that and uh then there's
the whole nostalgic uh component of it where
it's like this you know activity that's rooted
in you know your childhood and you you did it
maybe with your your dad or your brother or friends
when you were a kid and you go to your local
hobby shop and opening a box is you know like
bringing you back to uh a really sentimental
time in your life people get sucked in that way
right um people get sucked in because maybe they're
chasing their their favorite athlete or player
on their team or um you know a specific set that
uh is nostalgic to them and so there's you know
a whole plethora of reasons why people get sucked
in but ultimately many of those reasons aren't
for sort of like the purity right of of collecting
and why we started collecting in the first place
and that's what we're trying to correct uh we
want to promote collecting with intention not
compulsion um and you know there's there's two
sides to this and this is something i actually
published yesterday um i published a daily reflection
called two lanes of recovery there's abstinence
or intention right and with gambling you know,
GA says you have to abstain completely. You can't
place a bet and go back. You can't go back. You
know, once you're an addict, once you've established
that you have a problem and you have this disease,
you can't go back to gambling. It's just not
possible with collecting. We're looking at it
through. Sort of a different lens. And I'm just
going to quickly read this article, if that's
okay with you, Brian. Just because I think it
might resonate with a lot of people. Yeah, definitely.
Again, the title is Two Lanes of Recovery, Abstinence
or Intention. I published this yesterday. It's
on collectorsmd .com forward slash daily dash
reflection. You can look at all of our daily
reflections there anytime you'd like. They live
in perpetuity. And again, we publish them every
day. All right. So this was yesterday's. In recovery,
there isn't just one path. For some, the only
sustainable way forward is complete abstinence.
For others, the goal is to rebuild a healthier
relationship by practicing intention, boundaries,
and clarity. This is true across many high -risk,
dopamine -driven activities. Gambling, day trading,
compulsive spending, and yes, collecting. Some
members of our community recognize that they
can never return to cards, or to any form of
leisurely spending or collecting for that matter.
For them, the hobby became toxic, a source of
compulsion rather than joy. Maybe they were never
truly in it for the purity of collecting, or
maybe the purity was stripped away by the insidious
side of the hobby, the endless chase for profit,
the constant pursuit of the next dopamine hit,
or impressing others. When the hobby reaches
this point, stepping away completely and perhaps
permanently may be the only safe option. Walking
away for good isn't weakness, it's wisdom and
courage. Others in our community don't necessarily
identify as having a problem. They still love
the hobby, but they want to be proactive about
collecting with intention before it takes control.
For them, it's about setting boundaries, practicing
mindfulness, and finding clarity so that collecting
remains a source of connection and joy, not compulsion
and regret. They understand and acknowledge that
the hobby has evolved into an ecosystem built
to pull people in, engineered to exploit excitement
rather than nurture passion, and if left unchecked,
to keep them trapped. This distinction isn't
unique to collecting. It mirrors other high -risk
dopamine -driven activities, gambling, day trading,
even shopping. Each operates on the same neurological
feedback loops. But if someone struggles with
gambling, does that automatically mean they can't
safely participate in other high -risk activities
like day trading or even something as seemingly
harmless and socially accepted as fantasy sports?
Then there's this little graphic. of a football
player. It says, is fantasy football gambling?
And the caption is, with football season officially
upon us and chatter and camaraderie around gambling
and sports cards everywhere, now is a good time
to take a step back, pause, and assess where
we stand in relation to it all. So is fantasy
football gambling? Or is fantasy sports gambling?
Some say yes, some say no. Gamblers Anonymous
defines it as gambling, and for some, it triggers
the same compulsions as a night at the blackjack
table or formulating a multi -leg teaser. But
for others, it feels more like casual competition
among friends and might not ignite the same fire.
The truth is, it depends on the person. Each
of us has a different threshold, a different
set of risk factors, and a unique relationship
to risk, reward, and control. What feels harmless
to one person can be destructive to another.
That's why these conversations matter, so we
can recognize when the line between fun and compulsion
starts to blur and adjust our habits accordingly
before things spiral. I'm almost done. I know
this is a little bit longer than I realized.
That's also why there's no cookie cutter approach.
Each person's circumstances are unique and every
individual's journey deserves to be treated as
such. For some, abstinence is freedom. For others,
intention is balance. Neither path is necessarily
better than the other. It's about finding the
lane that keeps you safe, grounded, and true
to yourself. And for some, it might be a hybrid
between the two or another line. another lane
entirely at the end of the day we don't have
all the answers and there's no perfect antidote
we can prescribe to cure addiction but at collectors
md we honor every lane what matters most is that
you find a path that works for you not one dictated
by the industry the market or even the people
around you the choice isn't one size fits all
it's deeply personal and whatever path you choose
you don't have to walk it alone we support you
wherever you are in your journey hashtag collectors
md The healthiest lane is the one that keeps
you free from compulsion and rooted in choice,
whether that means walking away entirely or collecting
with intention. Very nice. I would, I mean, gambling
is, as we define it, is risking something of
value for an uncertain outcome. Right. I mean,
if you're playing free fantasy and there's nothing
that you're risking, then go nuts. But if you're
putting that money, it's probably gambling. But
again, it doesn't matter if something's gambling
or not. If it's causing you harm and you continue
to do it, you're either lying to yourself because
you enjoy doing it, and that's fine. It's your
life. There's no right way. GA is not 100 % right.
It works for a lot of people. It's great. But
it doesn't mean that you have to live by those
rules. You're like, well, every time I play blackjack,
I lose and I overdo it. But every time I play
poker, I'm OK like that. It's your life. Like,
but are you really OK? I think a lot of people
just lie to themselves because they want to be
able to participate in that behavior that feels
good. Right. And you can't do that if you want
the healthy existence. You know, I used to laugh
at harm reduction. I mean, I still don't really
think that harm reduction in gambling. Because
you have to free your brain of that burden. And
if you don't free it, if you keep participating
in the activity and risking something, even if
it's less frequent with less money, you're still
giving yourself that boost. And you're never
going to heal if you keep participating in that
activity. So it's hard. I mean, listen, Alyx,
I'm sitting here because I've been trying to
get rid of these cards for the last year. And
I'm sitting here. My desk is covered in cards
that I've been trying to get rid of for the last
year. And I do, I list shit every day on eBay
and I, and I, I don't like, I'm not asking for
top dollar. I list this crap to get rid of it.
I, if I had bigger boxes, I'd probably have bigger
lots on eBay. But as I'm doing this, I'm like,
what the hell was wrong with me? What have I
done? This is insane. How many cards I have.
How many boxes I bought thinking I was going
to get something. I never got anything that was,
you know, those cards that they'll show you on,
on those, on the YouTube channels that they sell,
like on spitball. And those, they'll show you
like a $12 ,000 card or something that was, that
was sold. And they'll talk about a recent sale
of like a 12, like a 12 ,000. I've never gotten
a card that was, I think the highest one I ever
sold on eBay was like 600 bucks. And that was
not without trying by spending the money I spent.
So, yeah, I don't think people are ever going
to get their money back, especially now, like
the current product, the 2023, 4, 5. It's all
so overpriced. 2024 Chrome update went insane,
but it had a lot of people in it, and that's
why it went insane, right? The price has skyrocketed.
The price has skyrocketed. The product got watered
down by all these ridiculous. parallels and stuff
they stick in there so yeah you're getting more
parallels but instead of you know the nice parallel
out of 25 50 99 150 whatever you're getting a
non -numbered holiday parallel that the base
card is selling for 79 cents and this parallel
is selling for a buck 75 right so there's no
like yeah you get another otani but it's a it's
just a shitty copycat that you don't want. The
problem is oversaturation. It's insane. They
make an outrageous number of sets, subsets, parallels,
serial numbered cards, autos, patch autos. I
mean, it's been this way for... i mean they print
money that's what they're doing right they could
do whatever they want because they know people
will buy it but they could they could all of
a sudden next week be like oh we have an even
rarer thing than a one of one you know we have
a i don't know how you do that but you know they're
they just keep creating bullshit to sell us yeah
one of ones aren't even one of ones anymore right
because Not if they're Leaf, I'm sure. Jesus.
Yeah. Leaf. I mean, it's crazy. They have these
things, these things called black box or white
box. One of ones that Panini puts out as sort
of redemption replacements and redemptions is
a whole nother story that we could spend an hour
talking about. But basically when the national
rolls around every year, you have an opportunity
where you can sign up for an appointment with
Panini to. exchange a handful of, uh, open redemptions
that, you know, have yet to be redeemed, um,
for a black box or multiple black boxes. And
what they do is they essentially take, um, cards
that, uh, haven't gone through production or
like are duplicates. So for instance, uh, there
might be, um, um, a serial numbered run of like
25 cards of let's say, uh, Jameer Gibbs. Right.
In this one particular parallel from this one
particular set. In most cases, instead of printing
25, which actually will make it through production
or be circulated, as they say, they'll do 27.
Right. So they'll have two extra copies and they
usually do that in case somebody gets a damaged
one and wants a replacement or there's another,
you know, sort of circumstance beyond their control
that. you know, they would need a backup for,
right? And so most of the time those backups
don't get used, but they're still signed by the
player. Whereas like Jameer will sign 27 copies
instead of 25, right? And they'll take those
copies and they'll stamp, they don't have the
serial number on them, those two extra copies,
but they'll stamp black box one of one, right?
This little logo that Panini makes. And then
they'll put it into one of these black boxes
and then people get those as replacement. Usually
they're decent cards, like... They have nicer
ones than others. And unfortunately, Panini does
a really poor job of sort of tiering them out
and marking which ones are worth what. Like,
so for instance, you can go and you can get a
black box that's worth five grand based on the
redemptions that you have open. And then the
next person can go and exchange $300 worth of
redemptions and get a $300 box. But they both
look exactly the same. And then people are turning
around and reselling them. to uh the after that
like on the aftermarket for the same price across
the board so people don't know what they're actually
getting the only person who truly knows the value
is the original uh person who received it right
so anyway um those one of ones aren't even one
of ones because they were a part of another run
they may have been like a a red parallel from
whatever subset looks identical to the other
cards in that same set that are numbered to 25
the only difference is that panini stamped black
box one of one on the back and it doesn't have
a serial number so yeah it's crazy i mean some
of these rookies uh i think most recently it
was either justin herbert which was like five
years ago at this point or victor women yama
which was last year um there was a stat that
i saw that like They had close to 2000 one of
ones, you know, different products from their
from their rookie year across all these different
products. And that was just with Panini. Right.
We're not talking about the unlicensed cards
with Topps and Fanatics and Leaf and, you know,
whatever other manufacturers are putting the
junk out there. But what is really a one of one,
you know? collectors and hobbyists throw the
word true around a lot where it's like, this
is the true one of one or the true RPA or the
true black of a particular card. Like what is
the true who, who decides what the true is, right?
Like, is it Panini? Is it Fanatics? Is it the
collectors? Is it the community? Is it, you know,
the online forums? Is it eBay? Like, no, it's
the collector. It's whatever the value of something
is monetary, emotional, mental like whatever
value uh you are um sort of looking at and a
lot of times it's sentimental value should be
you know up to the owner of that particular card
right the value lies in the eyes of the beholder
this is what we try to say uh but unfortunately
the market and the platforms and the breakers
and the marketplaces everybody dictates what
a card is worth And so, you know, people just
get lost in the hype. They get lost in the shuffle
and they get lost in themselves. They don't know
what they're collecting anymore. Are they collecting
cards they like or are they just collecting what's
popular? Everybody was hooked on Caitlin Clark
for the last year, year and a half. Now she's
out for the season and her market is, you know,
slowly tanking. you know, Paige Beckers is up
next in the WNBA. Like how long is that going
to go on for? And it's, it's all, it's all hype.
It's that's what it is. It's all just manufactured
hype. Back when I participated in, in breaks
and I, I did way too many every now and I can't
remember the last time I participated in one,
but every now and then I will just look on eBay
to see what breaks are happening. Like what is
the product that people are breaking? And some
of this shit, like over the years, I've realized
is just so completely worthless. It doesn't matter
what cards you get from that. No one is paying
what they pay for the license product. You know,
if you're buying baseball panini, you know, if
you're getting a boys of summer, Jackson Churio
auto, you're not, you're not getting, it's not
going to be, you're getting like, you just hang
on to it. Cause it's more, it's, it's more of
used to you than that than, than it is on the
open market. But I, I, A specific break comes
to mind, and I bid on it because I thought they
had 10 boxes, and I misread it, and it was one
box. And I was like, why the hell would I sign
up for a one -box break? And it was a father
and his two sons. And I was like, oh, how adorable.
He's getting them into breaking early. And then
it got worse because they did exactly. So my
team, I had the angels. My team, I got the one
auto in the box. I did. My team. And it was Trey
cabbage. Okay. So maybe this was the beginning
of last year or something. I might've bought,
you know, I think it was like seven bucks or
something. Yeah. Was he a rookie in that? Yeah.
He was. Yeah. One of those nameless rookies that
you just, cause he's like, he's like 28. So instead
of, instead of like in my previous experience
with breaks, you know, people are like, Hey,
an auto good for you. You got an auto. They don't,
you know, they don't. shit on you for a shitty
audio the dad and his kids look up the auto start
making fun like oh three bucks that's all you
got three dollar auto what kind of that's crappy
cabbage and i'm like you're crapping on the guy
who just gave you money to participate in your
little break because that's not worth it how
do you know i'm not a huge trade cabbage fan
i'm just so happy to have his auto on a card
and so that right there how do they know you're
not trade cabbage himself this yeah Like this
dad is now teaching them, oh, only the money
matters. The product doesn't matter. It matters
what you can sell it for and get money for. And
so the collecting aspect to me at that point,
I was like, oh, this is all shit in the can.
And this is the society we live in now. That's
what we're seeing more and more of. And that's
the biggest problem is the associated value with
cards. People just only looking at profit. They
throw out paper. Yeah. We're not even going to
ship it. backyard breaks for instance is like
one of the uh biggest those great bags yeah a
lot of people they're very polarizing i'll just
leave it at that um i'll call them douchebags
they uh recently introduced a new sort of system
i guess you could call it where they would have
quick consign which is a um you know consignment
company that you know they'll sell your cards
for you basically post up at their you know hq
where they break and you can basically DM them.
You hit a card in a break, you DM them, quick
and sign, we'll sell it for you on the spot.
So it's like, you don't even get the card in
your physical possession ever, right? You're
just, you're joining a break. You're hoping you
hit a card that you can flip. The chances of
you actually hitting a card that's going to make.
you know, make your money back again are extremely
slim, but they're offering the service so that,
you know, if you want to make some of your money
back, you can. And people get sucked into that
and they start doing that. Next thing you know,
you start looking at the numbers and it's like,
all right, today I joined five breaks. I bought
five spots in each break. I spent 2 ,500 bucks.
I'm going to list all of my cards with quick
and sign because that's an option now. And I'm
going to get back $300. It's like, what, like,
what's the point of doing that? I just don't,
I don't, you're not, yeah, you're not even like,
at that point, you're not even collecting anymore.
There is no collecting. You are buying into a
break. You're literally handing cash over to
the middleman, which is the breaker. And they
are pulling cards out of a pack and then turning
around and handing them over to quick and sign
for them to list those cars on eBay. It's like,
it just doesn't make any sense. But you have,
you know, the characters over at Backyard Breaks
that are hyping this whole process up and posting
it on their story and making these posts about
why, you know, it's the best value and you've
got to join. And if you don't, then what they're
doing is they're creating a sense of FOMO. It's
this whole, like, sort of fraternity energy where
you got to, it's like an exclusive fan club.
Like, you want to be a part of this? You want
to hang out with us? You want to be hanging out
with the cool kids on the block? Join our break.
hand your cards over to quick and sign and you
know you're you're it's the the fast lane to
becoming popular i mean that's more or less what
it is right people like to hear their names called
out on the live streams with 500 1000 people
in the live people like uh that sort of attention
you know in a rare very rare case you actually
do hit a card that's that's noteworthy and usually
it's the same names being called out right like
because those people are just buying tons spots
in these breaks and so you throw enough crap
at the wall eventually some of it's gonna stick
but if you're spending 10 grand on a break and
getting back a thousand dollars worth of cards
yeah somebody's gonna like give you a shout out
because you hit that thousand dollar card but
you spent ten thousand dollars to hit that car
yeah so i mean and that's what we're seeing more
and more of the big whales the guys that are
going into these uh these lives and ripping thousands,
tens of thousands of dollars in wax and one sitting,
these guys are hitting big cards and like, you
know, they're getting shout outs and, you know,
attention from the breakers, from the manufacturers,
maybe even tops or panini or reposting, you know,
the video where the card was hit. But those are
the same people that are spending all of their
money and, you know, losing in the long run or
the short run for that matter. So it's all kind
of just a giant scam. I hate to call it that.
But breaking is, as somebody who was involved
on the other side, where like when I first got
back into the hobby in the early days of the
pandemic, I was breaking. I was in a break group
with three buddies that I grew up with called
Bogo Breaks. And we were ripping boxes on Instagram
and Facebook. Eventually, you know, we did. We
did, actually. yeah i could show you some some
old footage uh i i did wear gloves early on uh
when i was when i was doing breaks on facebook
they were like you know very uh sort of accessible
price point i mean like it would be like 50 bucks
to join a break and we do like three boxes and
you know you weren't like you weren't like forcing
people or like creating a sense of fomo or like
screaming into the mic To get people to join
or, you know, berating people because the auctions
aren't going for what they should or, you know,
whatever the breaker thinks they should. I mean,
what it looks like today versus what it looked
like five years ago is night and day. Now, I'm
not saying breaking was safe or healthy back
then. You know, there are sort of different levels
to it. But what it looks like today, this ecosystem
is a gambling machine with absolutely zero guardrails.
and um zero regulation and so that's where collectors
comes in and i kind of want to go back to uh
one thing that we um addressed briefly when i
was reading that uh daily reflection um one of
the big differences between gambling and collecting
is around abstinence right in gamblers anonymous
i mentioned this and you kind of confirmed it,
the message is very clear. Full abstinence is
the only way forward. And I personally get it,
right? For gambling, that makes sense. You can't
really place just one bet responsibly if you've
crossed that line before. It's a slippery slope.
It's way too dangerous. You're eventually going
to, you know, go full tilt like we all do as
compulsive gamblers. But collecting is a little
bit more complicated. It's a little bit more
of a gray area. And I'm going to preface saying,
that i'm not making excuses or justifying or
or saying that you know it's okay to collect
but for some people it really does need to be
full abstinence right cards or memorabilia become
so tied up with compulsion that the healthiest
choice is just to walk away completely but for
others collecting still does bring joy and this
is you know sort of like where i'm not trying
to make excuses for these people um but there's
there's nostalgia and there's connection. There
are things that exist here that don't exist in
the world of gambling. Like, you know, I mean,
you could try to tell me that you're a big sports
fan. And so placing a bet might make the game
more exciting for you. But when it comes to like
card games and casino, what are you going to
try to tell me that like a particular slot machine
makes you feel a certain type of way? Like, no,
it's very black and white. People are gambling
to. scratch an itch to chase that dopamine high
and to ultimately try to make some money so with
the sports cards um those people who are sort
of collecting with intention and you know it
still brings joy for the problem isn't the existence
of cards in their life it's how they interact
with them the boundaries the mindsets and the
triggers so that's where Collectors MD sort of
takes a different approach from ga where like
GA is effective, but it can feel sort of cookie
cutter, right? Same playbook for everyone. We're
not here to knock that because it's saved a lot
of lives. And I, you know, I attended GA meetings
for a number of years and I respect what they
do and the foundation and the yellow book and
all of that. I mean, we've taken the yellow book
and we've adapted it into the Collectors MD
recovery guide. Like GA is sort of the foundation
of what we're doing. But with that said, we look
at recovery in the hobby through sort of a more
holistic lens. We focus on the person, their
specific history, their triggers, their goals.
Like for one collector. abstinence might be wisdom
but for another it's about learning how to engage
intentionally again setting budgets defining
priorities and keeping the hobby a source of
joy instead of stress so again instead of saying
one size fits all we just we ask what's the lane
that actually keeps you safe and grounded and
and that's the heart of Collectors MD and i would
you know i agree with you like if you have a
team like i love the tigers and if if If you
if I was collecting every rookie the Tigers ever
had because I wanted to keep it and collect.
Right. Isn't that the collecting part? You collect
it to keep. Right. It's when you get into the
lotto ticket of it all of like, oh, I'm not.
And, you know, you might buy into a break to
collect because you might be like, oh, I can
get my specific team. And that's great. That's
an easy way to get it without paying the huge
price on the on the full box. Right. So I definitely.
I agree with you. I, I, I see that. And I think
there's ways like those spitballing guys talking
about, like, just by saying, like, if you want
a card, just go buy the card. You're not going
to magically get this one in a million card in
a box. Just go buy the card. And that makes sense.
And like, I, I, as a kid enjoyed collecting sets
and as an adult, after I bottomed out and just
completely was addicted to cards again. I started
realizing like, Oh, I can make a lot of sets
on all these cards that I bought. So I started
doing that. And that was fun. Like I enjoyed
the collating and the putting in order and the
sleeving and the putting in the box and having
the set. And like, I, I just, I, that part of
the collecting, I get, I will say if we take
a step back, all of this is built around some
cardboard with a baseball player or a sports
figures name on it. Yeah. Maybe that name is
in a different color and maybe that color has
a number on it. And maybe that number color has,
their handwriting but if you really take a step
back it is all very stupid like i love sports
right but it is all just a piece of cardboard
like it's a piece of cardboard that someone printed
and said this is worth something and we bought
into that and i would think to people who aren't
involved in like my friend adam collects magic
the gathering cards and he will tell you he was
fully addicted to collecting magic the gathering
cards whereas i see magic the gathering and i'm
like I don't want to play the game and these
seem useless. And he's like, I want to play the
game and there's valuable cards. So he started
as somebody, much like I did when I was younger,
collecting sports cards just to collect them
because I liked it. He was playing the game.
And then one day, you know, where all this kind
of shifted, like Pokemon and all that, oh, there's
value in some of the stuff I have. People want
this stuff. And so now he's more in the brain
of value in my cards and getting valuable cards.
But I mean, just again, taking a step back, I
see magic cards. I'm like, these are stupid.
Why would anyone spend money on this? Right.
But I'm sure people would say the same thing
about anything that anybody collects. I mean,
I'm guessing you don't have blue hairs in your
Collectors MD with Hummels, right? I see Hummels
and I'm like, I want to throw that against a
brick wall. Right. Because it would be fun to
break. But other people just love to have it.
And we like, that's fine. It's life. We're all
going to have little things that we like to have
around us. As I've gotten older and through this,
hopefully this final card thing moment, I mean,
I still from time to time like to complete sets
or do something like that. Nothing like I used
to. But I've kind of realized like why I want
less stuff. Like I just want less stuff in my
life. Like the collecting part is you get it.
Even the sets, like after I'm done building it,
the building is the fun part. And then I put
it in a box in the closet and it just sits there.
And 99 .9 % of the people on the planet don't
give a damn that I have it. Right. None of my
friends want to hear me talk about it. The other
collectors, they might appreciate that I have
it, but that conversation's two minutes. And
then it's, so it is like to take a step back
from it all. It is a strange thing to think about
of like, Oh, this person does a thing is on a
piece of cardboard. And I paid how much money
for that piece of cardboard. Right. Yeah. I mean,
at the end of the day, if you strip it all the
way back cards, like you said, they're literally
just pieces of cardboard with a photograph and
maybe if you're lucky, some ink on them. And
that's what makes the whole thing kind of wild.
And we attach all of this value, all of this
emotion, all of this financial pressure to something
that in its purest form is no different than
the paper in a notebook or, you know. There's
something very satisfying about looking at these.
Yeah. Even though I know it happens. That's where
I was going with that. There's the satisfaction
of going through and looking. I do like the stats
on the back, and I do like the pictures. It is
a beauty. When it's a good -looking card, and
it's colorful, and maybe a serial number, it
does look good. I don't know why that satisfies
me, but it does. Yeah. What it is, it's marketing.
The manufacturers know what they're doing. They've
spent years making the product feel more... than
just cardboard. They add things like jersey swatches,
you know, bat pieces, shoelaces, different types
of patches, on -card autographs, you know. They
experiment with different types of technology.
They call it refractors, holograms, chromium
finishes, all these sort of tech -forward materials
to make the card feel more innovative, more scarce,
more worth chasing, right? So I think on one
hand, like you're saying, it's definitely silly.
You're fighting over... a sliver of cardboard
but on the other hand they've engineered these
little pieces of cardboard into something that
really taps uh you know what we're talking about
here nostalgia identity and the gambler's rush
all at once and that combination is just so incredibly
powerful great explanation the marketing part
you're right i mean yeah it's it's marketing
man Fanatics now that Fanatics has basically
a monopoly in this in the space they are exhausting
all of their resources to keep the hobby growing
to keep the hobby moving forward you know not
just with advancing the sort of innovative technology
of the cards with the extra uh you know bells
and whistles that they're they're adding every
year for instance um this new card that they
have coming out next year is actually going to
have the ping pong ball that um you know uh i
guess coincides with the player and where they
were drafted right you know how they do the ping
pong balls in uh the nba draft lottery and then
the same thing with the the baseball they're
taking those ping pong balls they're putting
them inside of cards i literally plastic in my
card and i'm going to be told this is from draft
night 2022 well yeah it's literally an entire
it's not even just a piece of the ping pong ball
it's the entire ping pong ball sort of uh like
engulfed in the card it's like i i commented
on they used to throw them away and like don't
throw those away right i was like people are
actually going to play beer pong with these to
try to go viral they're going to take one of
these they're just going to start playing beer
pong with it or they're going to start playing
ping pong and uh they're going to try to make
a viral video with with one of the lower end
uh rookies or whatever um they're doing stuff
like that another thing that's I will admittedly
say it's pretty cool. I'm not overly cynical.
I still love the hobby. Excuse me. I still love
collecting. One thing that Fanatics is doing
that I think is pretty cool are these debut patches.
And not just the debut patches, but... There's
a small detail that I don't think a lot of football
fans might have noticed last night, and that
was Saquon Barkley, who was the Offensive Player
of the Year in 2024, the 2024 season, last season.
His NFL shield on his jersey, unlike all the
other players, was actually gold. And so what
they're doing is they're taking that shield,
and every game he plays this year, he's going
to have that unique shield, along with the Defensive
Player of the Year, the MVP. handful of other
players that were uh acknowledged as part of
like the nfl uh rewards or um awards or whatever
they're called you know these days but um they're
taking those pieces they're putting them into
cards and those are highly sought after uh pieces
right they actually carry some sort of legitimate
like value beyond just being uh you know a card
with a relic from like a not from a specific
gamer event like they so often use and like a
lot of times they use like player worn which
basically just means the player put the jersey
on and took it off in front of a rep from tops
and then they took that jersey and they cut it
up and they put it in a million different cards
these uh these shields or these debut patches
which is basically from a player's first game
ever um are being you know, manufactured into
the cards and then being placed in these sets
so that people can chase them. And that's why
they're so valuable. I think the Paul schemes
sold for like $1 .5 million to Dick sporting
goods last year. I don't know if you saw that,
but then they, they had it up for display at
Fanatics Fest this past summer. And, you know,
Olivia Dunn was there. I mean, they make a whole
ordeal. They make a whole circus out of it, right?
Olivia Dunn's walking around the floor. She's
looking for a Paul Skeen's card. She makes a
deal with a breaker. That video goes viral. Fanatics
reposts it. It's all premeditated. It's all premeditated
marketing. They know exactly what they're doing.
They're partnering with the right athletes. They're
partnering with the right influencers, and they're
printing money. hand over fist and that's and
they're creating I mean the same thing we look
for in recovery is connection and they are creating
connection because if you have a little piece
of a jersey that was worn in the game that you
watched you're like holy crap it's like I was
there and they give you that connection to the
athlete I guess that's why people like autographs
is it gives you that little like his hand touched
this right which is why I was that close to him
on card autographs versus sticker autographs
yeah which is another hot topic in the hobby.
Stickers are stupid. Right. The players just
sign these sheets of stickers and then they slap
the sticker on the card. And honestly, you know,
I was thinking about this popped in my head the
other day and I was like, none of us would have
any idea if it was just a random dude signing
that player. And Tops just slapped their authentic.
No one's, like you said, no one's regulating
them. No one's checking them. Oh, a Tops person
was there watching them sign it. Okay, I guess
that's all we have to go on because you told
us that. This was authenticated by them, maybe,
but we would have no idea, really. It's one of
the longest standing debates in the industry.
And there was actually a massive scandal that
came out earlier this year where one of the biggest
names or one of the biggest resellers in the
hobby when it comes to memorabilia was basically
found. to have been artificially producing like
something like 50 % of the autographs he was
selling. And so hundreds, if not thousands, tens
of thousands of fake autographs are, and these
are autographs that have been authenticated by
Fanatics and by PSA and Beckett. So it got by
them? Yeah, because he was using like these,
I would imagine AI would create a signature.
That's what I was going to say. He was using
these machines, these devices that could basically
hand trace the signature of the player and then
reproduce it on a jersey or a helmet. A lot of
times they resell cards that weren't originally
autographed cards. They were just non -auto cards
and then they would autograph them. He was using
devices like that. The story itself took a really
dark turn because while the FBI was investigating
him, he ended up putting out like a confession,
basically a confessional on like Facebook saying
like, yeah, I did this. All these autographs
are fake. They're floating around in cyberspace
on the app, like eBay, all these marketplaces,
like basically you guys have no idea what's real
and what's not. And so when they. came to arrest
him um you know they bashed down his door they
found him dead in his home he killed himself
um which is crazy but he was looking at a significant
amount of um time in jail yes fraud all sorts
i mean he was doing it for like felony fraud
and several decades and it was like hundreds
of millions of dollars worth of inventory yeah
i'll say decades Oh yeah. I, I would imagine
AI is going to call it like I, I heard about
the scanners this year and we got, I gotta, we
gotta wrap up here, but I wanted, I want to do
this again. Cause there's so like the convergence
of, of, of collecting and gambling is, is fascinating
to me. And here you are. So we might as well
have more conversations. Plus I want to talk
more of where gambling and cards converge in
talking about. perhaps grooming kids to get gambling
-like behavior to then be able to gamble later
in life. When we talked before, we talked a little
bit about that, but I want to talk about that,
but we don't have time today. I sent you the
link, by the way. I see it in the chat. I'll
grab that and look at it. Thank you. $350 million
in sales was the number over 20 years. Is there
a list of the cards that he was saying? They're
still sorting it out. I don't know the details,
but it says that... Maybe it's best we just all
don't know and keep assuming that it's real.
Right. I mean, people, it's like... And then
there were rumors that Luka Doncic's mother was
signing for him when he was a rookie. There were
rumors that... I think more players should refuse
to sign and just sign their own stuff and sell
their own stuff because they would make the money.
You're just making top money. It's in their player
contracts when they sign. I mean, they're going
to all strike eventually, right? And renegotiate.
Right. but they but they're they're required
to to do this stuff and like a lot of players
are just like no i'm not doing this and i gotta
tell you it would be annoying to sign 2 000 stickers
oh yeah for sure but they're who would want to
do that and i can't believe some of them look
spot on every time and i'm like mine would be
so different every time yeah i mean some of these
guys really respect the craft and uh appreciate
like you know that fans like good penmanship.
Like for instance, Trevor Lawrence signing for
a fan makes sense to me, but sitting down for
a corporate guy to sign 2000 stickers just seems
pointless. Yeah. What I'm saying is there are
players who, who care about that stuff and they
will sign perfectly every single time. Like Trevor
Lawrence, Justin Herbert, you know, like some
of the older guys, Mariano Rivera, Derek Jeter,
Ken Griffey, Andre Dawson. These are guys that.
you know are known to have really really beautiful
signatures and sign you know meticulously every
single time they take the time and effort to
uh make sure that all of their memorabilia that
you know i like that and i like the hands of
their fans look nice you know they've just they've
saturated it all and turned every i mean the
ping pong ball thing jesus yeah and that's just
that's just the tip of the iceberg man um well
i'm glad i'm not where i used to be because i'm
glad i'm not involved in any of this i did buy
one blaster of tops chrome 2025 okay and i'm
looking at that comparing it with 21 22 and i'm
going god these look like just the the card looks
bet like the edge like it's not as nice as other
chromes it looks like i don't like the design
this year personally 25 looks cheaper to me than
other years and i'm like why would anyone these
are how much in a jumbo no way i'm not a fan
of this year's design i liked last year's design
in the year before honestly 21 through 24 they
were all pretty solid i wasn't crazy about 2020
and then this year's a little bit funky but whatever
tops tops is gonna have all the sports the other
thing is i know we gotta wrap here but um you
know i mentioned that Fanatics is becoming a
monopoly and they already if they're if you know
they aren't already uh panini is on their way
out but they continue to kick the can in court
so we don't know on their way out meaning they
won't do the unlicensed cards like they won't
they won't have license I enjoy Panini baseball,
the prisms, not all the other bullshit. Well,
yeah, I don't mind them either. And half the
reason is because it's so much cheaper and accessible
than some of the stuff. I mean, it's all subjective,
but I agree. I think prism has a sharp look to
it. But like, you know, again, prism versus top
scrum is one of the longest standing debates
that will. i mean i could do without all the
other was it chronicles has the like 20 different
types of chronicles you can get yeah they don't
even make chronicles anymore but uh yeah basically
it would take all the leftover sets that they
didn't make that year and they would just put
them all in one set which was chronicles chronicles
chronicles spectrum right it was all like the
sort of uh mid -tier mid to low tier um sets
that they've made in the past or sort of paying
homage to an old set um that they were just put
in one giant set they haven't done that in a
while uh tops did something very similar last
year though with a set called composite where
they they basically were previewing all of the
um sets that would be coming out for the upcoming
cycle or the upcoming season for football and
basketball. They, they were testing out some,
some of the sets that have since come out as
standalone sets this year. It's very interesting
the way they go about that. Again, I could talk
about each one of these topics alone, you know,
for hours. I want to keep going, but I have an
appointment. I do. I mean, I. I get it with collecting
it. I'm very guilty of it. But I went down a
bad path with baseball cards because I got into
that gambling aspect. Not even the gambling.
I just got addicted to the process of looking
on eBay for a break and then participating in
that break. And, of course, I was chasing a player
at the time, too, which didn't help. And I got
in deep so quickly. I didn't even realize it
because I was spreading it out on credit cards.
And I was like, oh, I only spent this much. And
then when my wife found out, oh, no. It was like
double what I thought. Double. Because I wasn't
tracking it because I wanted to ignore it because
I didn't want to know what I was spending. And
when she found out, that shit became real. And
that's usually what happens. It's not an unusual
story. These are the stories that we hear every
single week in our weekly peer support meetings.
And tell you what, some of them are horrifying.
We literally have had people. join meetings.
And, you know, these are completely anonymous
and confidential meetings. So I would never share
names or refer to specific people, but just to
generalize, there are people who literally will
break down during their shares. You know, the
way we share therapy and GA, we do the same thing
with Collectors MD because their wives are, you
know, filing for divorce or they're in legal
trouble. Because, you know, they went too far
with the collecting and started using maybe a
company card or something like that. Like there's
a lot of really, really scary things going on.
And when you start peeling back the onion, it's
like this mirrors gambling, gambling addiction,
you know, to the fullest extent. And the fact
that there's no guardrails, no regulation, no
tools and resources for recovery or even any
sort of acknowledgement. Like when you see an
ad or a commercial for a casino or a sports book
and it says, if you or you know somebody who
has a problem, call 1 -800 -GAMBLER and they
provide you with the tools and resources. I mean,
it's minimal, but it's at least, you know, something
that they're doing to. help people that need
it, right? It's a part of their corporate responsibility
to do that. None of that exists in the hobby
space. None of that exists in sports cards, TCG.
Fanatics looks the other way, not looks the other
way. But yeah, that's what Collectors MD is all
about. And so we are looking to, we are pushing
to change that. Where can people find you? With
the right folks. You can find us at Collectors MD
.com. Yep, Collectors MD. I'll put it in the show
notes too. Totally. Appreciate that, Brian. It's
collectorsmd .com. We're also on, you know, pretty
much all social media platforms, Instagram, Facebook,
X, TikTok, YouTube. I mentioned we have two podcasts,
sorry, three podcasts now. LinkedIn, Discord,
working on getting our Reddit page back up. It
was banned for the dumbest reason, but hopefully
we can. fix that soon. Um, and we are also, um,
you know, active across the entire community,
the, the hobby industry. Um, you know, like I
said, I've been on a, on a handful of podcasts.
I'm actually going to be on the Geoff Wilson show
next week, which I'm really excited about. Um,
he is a well -known name in the hobby. Um, and
so mine is but a drop in the bucket for you.
His, his numbers will. That's not even what it's
about. It's just about having these conversations.
Well, no, that's good. You'll get a lot of eyes
on what you're doing. Right, exactly. I'm sure
there's a lot of people in his audience who could
use the group atmosphere that you provide. Right,
which I'm very grateful for. That's awesome.
That's amazing, actually, that you're doing that.
I do want to formally thank you, Brian, for having
me on your show and for having this conversation.
Well, formally, I'm happy to have you. Yeah.
No, but this - No, I think what you're doing
is amazing because I've been - talking about
this before on these and then all of a sudden
you like i said you popped up i was watching
spitball and they were talking about you and
i was like wow someone's doing that that's cool
i should reach out to that guy and then we're
like two three weeks later rob put us in touch
and i was like oh my gosh yeah So no, that was
awesome. I think what you're doing is great.
You're a good dude. And thank you so much for
doing this. But let's do this again. This was
invigorating for me because I haven't recorded
a podcast in a little bit. So this was nice for
me. So I appreciate it. Yeah, of course. Thank
you. I will let you know when this is up and
we'll talk on the other side. I got to run. All
right, Brian. Sounds good, man. Take care, Alyx.
Talk to you soon. Bye.