WEBVTT

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you know actually why don't we do this um let's

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bring Alyx on because this is his specialty and

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uh i'd be it'll be great to have him join the

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conversation mike you're free you're welcome

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to stick around you know uh for as long really

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uh until we end this this Collectors MD addiction

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gambling discussion but let's bring on Alyx you

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ready to come on give me a thumbs up there it

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is Alyx, welcome to Sports Cards Live. How are

00:00:31.589 --> 00:00:33.869
you? Hey, Jeremy. Thanks for having me. You're

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welcome. Please meet Joe and Mike if you haven't

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yet. Joe, Mike, great to meet you both. What's

00:00:40.570 --> 00:00:43.549
up, Alyx? Hope you guys had a great Fourth. Thank

00:00:43.549 --> 00:00:45.950
you. Love what you're doing. Thank you from Canada.

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And a good Canada Day up here. So, you know,

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let's continue the discussion. And I do want

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to just a couple of comments. that, well, first

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of all, Mookie Chilson, what's up, Mookie, says,

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getting out of bed in the morning is a gamble,

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but so is going to bed at night. You know, people,

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you don't always wake up. So yes, crossing the

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street is a gamble. Everything is often a gamble

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in life. But Mike, to Mike again, I want to ask,

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there's been a lot of talk about this lately,

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Mike. I've done some talking about it myself

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on Instagram and on X. Alyx has been doing a

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bit of the podcast circuit lately and Collectors MD

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has really caught people's attention. Lots of

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talk about sports card addiction. Mike, was that

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also a part of what kind of sparked you to do

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your 11 ways that we gamble in the hobby video?

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No. So I do videos occasionally on sports card

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addiction. I did one. A couple of months ago,

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and I actually featured Collectors MD in the video

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where I talked about, hey, there is now health.

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Because when I did it a couple of years ago,

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a video on sports card addiction, there wasn't

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a sports card dedicated help for it. But there

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was a Reddit post a month or two ago where a

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woman posted about her husband. He had lost $300

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,000 of their money, and they were $100 ,000

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in debt because of it. And so I just talked through

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that. talked about Collectors MD being there

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and every time i do it i get a lot of comments

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from people or private emails or dms from people

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saying i'm a mess i need help and now i actually

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have a good place to send people appreciate that

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mike it's true you know it's it's something that

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and i haven't done this yet but i want to i want

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to i want to work into all of my sports cards

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live episodes sort of like at the beginning or

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at some point, just a quick spiel or a quick

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announcement, you know, that if you are having

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problems, if you find yourself running into financial

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relationship issues because you can't stop spending

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money, and maybe, Alyx, I'll get you to coach

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me on how to word this. Maybe you're the best.

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Maybe you can help me word it. And just make

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that announcement because... you know you go

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into you go into any casino and there are warnings

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and and helplines all over the place we don't

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see that in the hobby whether we're in the online

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casinos the Whatnots the Fanatics Lives uh eBay

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Live Loupe whatever other ones there are we don't

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see these at least i don't think we see them

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there we don't see them at the lcs when you're

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buying wax and I don't want to say perhaps we

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should because we're not regulated. I think a

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lot of people think we should. And I mean, it

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would be nice if we had that, but we're not there

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yet. Mike, what do you think of that? Do you

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think that we should be there? Do you think that

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the hobby has grown with the price of wax now

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that we should be there? Probably. I hate to

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think about. regulation coming into the hobby,

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but I also don't know that it would impact me

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in any way. But the hobby has gotten so big and

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there's really, I mean, the hobby is this huge

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umbrella or tent. And there are some portions

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of the hobby that probably should be regulated.

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You can get, anybody can get on Fanatics and

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sell. You've got 10 -year -old kids selling and

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there's nothing that's controlling what they're

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doing. or if they are scamming anybody you don't

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know it's uh it's it's difficult out there for

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a new consumer and i always get comments well

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new consumers should do the research first but

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shouldn't we make it easy for them to understand

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what they're getting themselves into yeah i mean

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you you put on a movie and you know you're gonna

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see the explicit language sexual drug references

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you know you get that before the movie starts

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to protect people to protect youth why don't

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we have that when you whenever a break starts

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online or before they start or when you go to

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check out for your spot you want you know you

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might lose all your money whatever it might be

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Alyx let's go to you what do you think of this

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and and bring us up to speed on your thoughts

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on these two points we've talked about so far

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yeah Jeremy first of all thank you so much for

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giving Collectors MD this platform in this stage

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i exactly I do not accept a thank you. This is

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my duty. It's all of our duty. So I appreciate

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it. I appreciate it, Alyx, but please don't thank

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me. You guys hit the nail on the head. I mean,

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we're talking about just very, very honest and

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high level awareness. That's all it is. You talked

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about creating some sort of general messaging

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before you. go live or right before you jump

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into the topic of discussions. That's all we

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need. And we need it across the board. We need

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to see it on the platforms. We need to see it

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on social media. Just a layer of support, a layer

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of awareness. If you or you know somebody who

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has a problem, which we're seeing more and more

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of in this hobby, there's a place for you. You

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do not have to feel alone. You don't have to

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feel a sense of isolation. Collectors MD is here

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to support you. no matter what you're going through

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in your hobby and your collecting journey. That's

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all it is. And we can get into it, but a lot

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of the higher powers, the platforms, the breakers,

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the manufacturers, they have looked the other

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way for far too long. And as the hobby, as collecting,

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continues to head in this direction that just

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shares so many synergies with gambling and gambling

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-like mechanics. i mean it's just so glaring

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that change and reform needs to happen and it

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needs to happen fast because like you said mike

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i mean we have 10 year old kids that have access

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now and there's no sense of education there's

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no sense of accountability where are the parents

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you know like we we just we need to look out

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for not just the hobby but the people in the

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hobby especially the next generation so that's

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what we're doing with Collectors MD and um you

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know again i'm just really grateful that uh people

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are um you know being so receptive and positive

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and helping spread such an important message

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because this message is way bigger than me and

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frankly it's bigger than Collectors MD it's it's

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something that um has been the missing link in

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this space for far too long so Alyx, in addition

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to doing what we can as a community to save lives,

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save marriages, save houses, save families, we

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are also trying to protect the future of the

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hobby at the same time, which is, I don't want

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to say which one's more important. The hobby

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is an important industry. It's an important lifestyle

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for so many of us. But kids with broken up...

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families because of sports card gambling addiction

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sports card addiction uh we want to save all

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that but like orlando here says we need to keep

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new collectors in the hobby not getting in a

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hole and leaving it all together i think that's

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an important part of it mike you did your video

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were you thinking about that at all think about

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that a lot um when new when new people come into

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the hobby first of all it is already confusing

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enough But they assume that they need to join

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in on breaks and they need to be buying expensive

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wax. And there's nothing that's preventing this,

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nothing that's educating them about those things.

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And people, it is straight up gambling, like

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I said, and not low risk gambling. You can buy

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hobby boxes for hundreds, thousands of dollars.

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And it's gotten to the point, it's very easy

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to say, well, you're not opening wax for the

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value. which for some of us should be the case,

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but the prices have gotten so outrageous that

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you feel the need to get value back. If you're

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opening a $500 box, which I've never done, by

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the way, you want to get a significant card or

00:09:29.850 --> 00:09:32.830
more in there. And if you don't, you just continue

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chasing and chasing and chasing, and eventually

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you end up in debt. A lot of people do. And that's

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very dangerous for a person, for a family. For

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life. You know, you mentioned a $500 box. Quick

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story about some of my personal firsthand experience

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going back to 2008. I predict the cup had come

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out. I went to a local LCS, bought a tin, a box,

00:10:00.169 --> 00:10:03.309
a pack, whatever for, you know, $600. Opened

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it. Was extremely disappointed. Felt like I just

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wasted $600. What did I do? I bought another

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one. I didn't leave the store. I bought another

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one. Opened it. Felt like I got, felt like I

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just flushed $600 down the toilet. Maybe I got

00:10:16.649 --> 00:10:19.429
80 bucks worth of value back, but nothing I wanted

00:10:19.429 --> 00:10:23.289
for my PC. So extra, you know, even double, double

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bad. What did I do? Opened another one. I did

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it until I opened up all six boxes from the case

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thinking eventually I'll get the case hit. Each

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box was a gamble. This was before Whatnot and

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Fanatics Live and the online. breaking casinos

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with all the glitz and glamour and the high pressure

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sales tactics and all that. And I drove home

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literally feeling like I just blew through almost

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$5 ,000 or four grand, whatever it was. And I

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was like depressed. I felt terrible. I felt embarrassed.

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I felt shame. I felt horrible. Now let's go back

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to when I'm 12 years old. Here's another story.

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12 years old, 1984. Opeche hockey sticker albums.

00:11:09.350 --> 00:11:11.549
You know, remember the albums you used to collect

00:11:11.549 --> 00:11:13.070
in the 80s if you're old enough to remember?

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I'm down to needing my very last sticker to complete

00:11:16.769 --> 00:11:18.570
the whole set so that I could go to school the

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next day and show all my friends I completed

00:11:20.850 --> 00:11:24.509
the album. Like, that was the goal. Every week,

00:11:24.529 --> 00:11:27.470
I'd get $2 a week allowance. I would go to the

00:11:27.470 --> 00:11:31.049
corner drugstore and I would, you know, drugstore.

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You know, they sold, I don't know if you have

00:11:32.289 --> 00:11:34.289
drugstores down in the U .S. or not, but anyway,

00:11:34.370 --> 00:11:36.700
went to the corner store. And I would buy eight

00:11:36.700 --> 00:11:40.000
packs of these stickers for $2. And I remember

00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:42.120
sitting there. I couldn't even get home first.

00:11:42.200 --> 00:11:44.919
I would open them at the cash register, at the

00:11:44.919 --> 00:11:49.100
counter, hoping to get that Ken Morrow. He won

00:11:49.100 --> 00:11:51.379
four cups with the Islanders. Hoping to get the

00:11:51.379 --> 00:11:54.559
Ken Morrow, a common sticker, to put in my book.

00:11:55.159 --> 00:11:58.220
And I'd spend my whole $2 allowance. And I'd

00:11:58.220 --> 00:12:00.759
walk home feeling like I just wasted my allowance.

00:12:00.799 --> 00:12:03.019
And I waited all week, did my chores to get,

00:12:03.159 --> 00:12:05.440
and I didn't get it. i didn't care if there was

00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:08.120
a gretzky in there or another great player i

00:12:08.120 --> 00:12:10.919
wanted that one card and i walked home every

00:12:10.919 --> 00:12:13.419
week it was i never actually never got it from

00:12:13.419 --> 00:12:15.659
opening packs probably did this for a month and

00:12:15.659 --> 00:12:17.519
a half six weeks in a row something like that

00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:21.019
it's a long time ago but every week i would walk

00:12:21.019 --> 00:12:23.960
home feeling like i just wasted my two dollar

00:12:23.960 --> 00:12:28.460
a week allowance then you know 2008 i'm doing

00:12:28.460 --> 00:12:31.179
it for 600 bucks a pack instead of 25 cents so

00:12:31.179 --> 00:12:35.860
you know there's been gambling in the hobby,

00:12:36.059 --> 00:12:39.080
even when you didn't care about hits, you wanted

00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:40.960
to get that last card for your set. And I would

00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:42.740
gamble every week to get it. What I ended up

00:12:42.740 --> 00:12:45.899
doing, went to the school one day and I had all

00:12:45.899 --> 00:12:48.879
my traders, a stack of them. One kid was willing

00:12:48.879 --> 00:12:51.159
to take the Ken Morrow and peel it out of his

00:12:51.159 --> 00:12:53.740
album, give it to me so I could stick it in mine.

00:12:53.879 --> 00:12:56.379
And I gave him all my traders for the one card.

00:12:56.960 --> 00:12:58.620
That's what I had to end up doing. But I spent

00:12:58.620 --> 00:13:02.299
weeks and weeks, $2 a week after $2 a week getting

00:13:02.299 --> 00:13:05.110
them. A couple of stories there for myself. Alyx,

00:13:05.289 --> 00:13:08.529
you are hosting these, you're having these meetings

00:13:08.529 --> 00:13:11.870
with the members of, I'm calling them members

00:13:11.870 --> 00:13:15.330
of Collectors MD. Are you hearing stories like

00:13:15.330 --> 00:13:18.590
this week after week? And maybe you have one

00:13:18.590 --> 00:13:20.830
or two that you can share with us, of course,

00:13:20.889 --> 00:13:24.669
without violating anybody's privacy. Yeah, these

00:13:24.669 --> 00:13:29.850
stories are, we're seeing so much going on, I

00:13:29.850 --> 00:13:33.059
mean, across the board. These weekly support

00:13:33.059 --> 00:13:36.240
meetings are intended to offer a space where

00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:39.379
collectors can talk openly about the emotional,

00:13:39.659 --> 00:13:42.220
financial and mental weight that can come with

00:13:42.220 --> 00:13:45.279
hobby and with collecting. It's not necessarily

00:13:45.279 --> 00:13:47.620
therapy, but it's real support from people who

00:13:47.620 --> 00:13:52.159
get it. So we have created a community that has,

00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:56.240
again, just been incredibly supportive. And each

00:13:56.240 --> 00:13:59.500
week we meet, it's Wednesday night, that probably

00:13:59.500 --> 00:14:02.690
is going to shift. most likely going to pivot

00:14:02.690 --> 00:14:06.429
to a couple of times a week to sort of cater

00:14:06.429 --> 00:14:08.570
or accommodate different types of collectors

00:14:08.570 --> 00:14:11.210
and different types of addiction. But we are

00:14:11.210 --> 00:14:14.710
seeing stories. And I think the biggest issue

00:14:14.710 --> 00:14:18.649
is that people have been afraid. People have

00:14:18.649 --> 00:14:22.909
been scared to share their stories either publicly

00:14:22.909 --> 00:14:25.289
or maybe even privately with their friends, with

00:14:25.289 --> 00:14:27.690
their loved ones, with their family members,

00:14:27.909 --> 00:14:32.370
with... other hobbyists and so again we are providing

00:14:32.370 --> 00:14:36.029
a sense of uh support and comfort so that people

00:14:36.029 --> 00:14:38.110
realize that they're not alone and isolated and

00:14:38.110 --> 00:14:41.730
so the types of stories we're seeing um you know

00:14:41.730 --> 00:14:45.269
are frankly really really scared uh there's one

00:14:45.269 --> 00:14:49.669
individual who has gotten in so incredibly deep

00:14:49.669 --> 00:14:52.190
that you know in order to sort of scratch that

00:14:52.190 --> 00:14:54.330
itch he needs to spend upwards of ten twenty

00:14:54.330 --> 00:14:57.269
thousand dollars a night on Whatnot and uh he

00:14:57.269 --> 00:15:01.860
got in so deep so far over his own head where

00:15:01.860 --> 00:15:07.399
you know he was using any and all means in order

00:15:07.399 --> 00:15:11.559
to you know scratch that itch and that you know

00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:14.480
meant whether it didn't matter if it was you

00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:17.100
know his own credit card wife's credit card his

00:15:17.100 --> 00:15:19.960
company credit card and he got to a point where

00:15:19.960 --> 00:15:22.940
you know he was millions of dollars in the hole

00:15:22.940 --> 00:15:25.600
and now he's you know on the other side of that

00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:29.580
just digging himself out trying to find a sense

00:15:29.580 --> 00:15:32.919
of relief and he's going through it on a number

00:15:32.919 --> 00:15:34.820
of different levels, obviously with his family,

00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:37.820
from a legal standpoint, with his former employer.

00:15:37.980 --> 00:15:40.019
I mean, there's a lot of things going on. And

00:15:40.019 --> 00:15:42.759
again, there's so much of this happening behind

00:15:42.759 --> 00:15:45.720
closed doors that people don't realize because

00:15:45.720 --> 00:15:48.320
again, most people keep these sort of things

00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:52.179
to themselves because perhaps they're ashamed.

00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:54.960
They're ashamed to admit, maybe not just to other

00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:56.759
people, but to themselves that they have a true

00:15:56.759 --> 00:16:00.600
problem. that they've fallen victim to compulsion.

00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:06.639
And so, you know, that's one story. Other story,

00:16:06.860 --> 00:16:12.139
similar sort of vein where one of the most well

00:16:12.139 --> 00:16:14.039
-known collectors in the hobby, and again, of

00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:18.000
course, we protect our members at all costs.

00:16:18.100 --> 00:16:19.899
Everything is completely safe and confidential.

00:16:20.259 --> 00:16:22.480
But this individual is very well -known in the

00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:24.940
hobby. The three of you would most likely know

00:16:24.940 --> 00:16:27.629
who this person is. he reached out to me a couple

00:16:27.629 --> 00:16:30.309
months ago and was like i can't believe i came

00:16:30.309 --> 00:16:32.990
across this you know this support group this

00:16:32.990 --> 00:16:35.850
is exactly what i needed he was like you know

00:16:35.850 --> 00:16:40.470
i look in the mirror and i'm disgusted with the

00:16:40.470 --> 00:16:42.529
amount of money that i've spent and that i throw

00:16:42.529 --> 00:16:44.629
to these breakers and these live streams these

00:16:44.629 --> 00:16:46.830
live platforms but there's a certain level of

00:16:46.830 --> 00:16:49.990
expectation not just from those those people

00:16:49.990 --> 00:16:52.149
that he spends money with but the whole community

00:16:52.149 --> 00:16:55.570
the hobby itself people expect this guy to show

00:16:55.570 --> 00:16:58.409
up every night and put on a show buy everything

00:16:58.409 --> 00:17:01.190
on the floor join every break buy all the you

00:17:01.190 --> 00:17:04.430
know five ten thousand dollar spots uh for the

00:17:04.430 --> 00:17:08.349
the wnba rookie royalty product that just came

00:17:08.349 --> 00:17:12.369
out i mean we're seeing this so much more and

00:17:12.369 --> 00:17:15.170
more and and we just you know again we need to

00:17:15.170 --> 00:17:17.490
to be there for one another we need to look out

00:17:17.490 --> 00:17:20.839
for one another uh and you know there just needs

00:17:20.839 --> 00:17:23.259
to be a space where people can come to to lean

00:17:23.259 --> 00:17:26.140
on when they're really in the thick of it yeah

00:17:26.140 --> 00:17:29.920
yeah well said and and you know i think what

00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:32.700
what you're doing is you're giving people a place

00:17:32.700 --> 00:17:36.500
to come and ears to listen to them and the support

00:17:36.500 --> 00:17:38.680
i think that's number one right talking it through

00:17:38.680 --> 00:17:41.700
knowing that you're not alone is huge and i love

00:17:41.700 --> 00:17:44.809
what you're doing with Collectors MD and uh uh

00:17:44.809 --> 00:17:47.509
so thank you you know for what you're doing of

00:17:47.509 --> 00:17:49.589
course Alyx i'm sure you're lots of thanks for

00:17:49.589 --> 00:17:51.710
you in the chat and we'll give you more i want

00:17:51.710 --> 00:17:53.630
to go to Joe for a moment because i was chatting

00:17:53.630 --> 00:17:56.750
with Joe and i i said you know i remember Joe

00:17:56.750 --> 00:17:59.230
a couple i don't know when it was maybe a couple

00:17:59.230 --> 00:18:01.970
of years ago you know you you'd send me a text

00:18:01.970 --> 00:18:04.609
message you're like yeah i just bought a first

00:18:04.609 --> 00:18:06.869
off the line you know like i don't i don't know

00:18:06.869 --> 00:18:09.130
what what were you going through when you were

00:18:09.130 --> 00:18:10.849
doing some of that i'm not like i don't think

00:18:10.849 --> 00:18:14.750
you have an addiction problem in terms of wax

00:18:14.750 --> 00:18:17.769
Joe but what is your experience in terms of having

00:18:17.769 --> 00:18:22.690
negative feelings about maybe wasting money feeling

00:18:22.690 --> 00:18:25.529
like i don't know that you necessarily have to

00:18:25.529 --> 00:18:30.170
have an addiction to in order to kind of have

00:18:30.170 --> 00:18:32.509
shame i don't know Alyx if that makes sense but

00:18:32.509 --> 00:18:35.210
like i don't feel like i'm i'm i was addicted

00:18:35.210 --> 00:18:37.490
to it but i certainly had had moments of feeling

00:18:37.490 --> 00:18:40.210
shame Joe what are some of your experiences with

00:18:40.210 --> 00:18:46.309
that Yeah, well, I didn't. I'm risk averse by

00:18:46.309 --> 00:18:50.349
nature and frugal. So I didn't really ever open

00:18:50.349 --> 00:18:54.549
any wax until maybe like 2019, 2020, when I actually

00:18:54.549 --> 00:18:58.809
pulled a couple like zions and jaws out of some

00:18:58.809 --> 00:19:01.029
target blasters and was like, whoa, that was

00:19:01.029 --> 00:19:03.829
pretty fun. And so you get that dopamine hit.

00:19:03.910 --> 00:19:06.029
Right. And then you're sort of, you know, you

00:19:06.029 --> 00:19:09.250
crave a little more. And so I started going on

00:19:09.250 --> 00:19:13.250
the panini. websites and looking for the uh the

00:19:13.250 --> 00:19:16.609
dutch uh auctions and and doing what i could

00:19:16.609 --> 00:19:20.210
to um you know kind of figure out what the best

00:19:20.210 --> 00:19:23.369
price point might be for say prism football i

00:19:23.369 --> 00:19:26.890
think i got four first off the line prism football

00:19:26.890 --> 00:19:31.529
boxes in 2020 which was the burrow the herbert

00:19:31.529 --> 00:19:36.069
year hertz um and and and maybe one of the worst

00:19:36.069 --> 00:19:39.450
things that could happen happened i hit a justin

00:19:39.450 --> 00:19:43.589
herbert blue ice um which was awesome um but

00:19:43.589 --> 00:19:46.609
the the drawback of that was i started to think

00:19:46.609 --> 00:19:51.109
okay wow roi is here in these boxes and so um

00:19:51.109 --> 00:19:57.509
from about 2020 to maybe 2022 um i did throw

00:19:57.509 --> 00:20:01.630
some money in all various um you know products

00:20:01.630 --> 00:20:06.539
from from megas and blasters online on eBay to

00:20:06.539 --> 00:20:10.819
you know more panini releases and yeah over time

00:20:10.819 --> 00:20:13.519
you know the house wins and like mike was saying

00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:17.420
earlier um the the prices jumped right around

00:20:17.420 --> 00:20:21.759
that time uh the the manufacturers sort of seized

00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:25.539
the moment of the frenzy that was happening and

00:20:25.539 --> 00:20:28.440
really amplified the prices to a point where

00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:32.599
it was it became um less and less a a even a

00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:35.799
reasonable gamble You factor in breakers on top

00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:38.279
of that, and I've never done a break, but that's

00:20:38.279 --> 00:20:42.079
where you get this exorbitant disconnect between

00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:47.079
playing the game, if you will, and then feeling

00:20:47.079 --> 00:20:51.059
pretty shoddy afterwards. So yeah, Jaylee, I

00:20:51.059 --> 00:20:55.940
think you know me. I agonize over every purchase

00:20:55.940 --> 00:20:59.200
and every hobby dollar that I deploy because

00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:01.940
I'm thinking about what else I can get. This

00:21:01.940 --> 00:21:04.750
might amount to... know a cool steph curry card

00:21:04.750 --> 00:21:08.710
or a cool standard caramel you know sam crawford

00:21:08.710 --> 00:21:11.130
or something and when i see those you know those

00:21:11.130 --> 00:21:13.930
hobby dollars um just you know vanishing between

00:21:13.930 --> 00:21:17.490
my fingers i i i felt pretty bad and you know

00:21:17.490 --> 00:21:20.410
i think it's probably been now you know two or

00:21:20.410 --> 00:21:23.710
three years um but one thing i'd like to maybe

00:21:23.710 --> 00:21:27.670
hear from Alyx and and all all the panel on is

00:21:27.670 --> 00:21:34.109
um eBay addiction, which I think you can manage

00:21:34.109 --> 00:21:37.890
maybe the financial output a little bit better,

00:21:37.990 --> 00:21:42.609
but the compulsivity and a similar perhaps dopamine

00:21:42.609 --> 00:21:46.490
rush when you're bidding in live time on a card.

00:21:46.589 --> 00:21:50.750
I'm curious, Alyx, if you work with clients even

00:21:50.750 --> 00:21:53.430
outside of the breaking category and maybe even

00:21:53.430 --> 00:21:56.509
more just in their... overall relationship to

00:21:56.509 --> 00:21:59.430
the hobby and and the amount of time right the

00:21:59.430 --> 00:22:02.589
time and energy and you know checking your watch

00:22:02.589 --> 00:22:05.410
list at two in the morning with your wife next

00:22:05.410 --> 00:22:07.710
to you and just like what am i what am i doing

00:22:07.710 --> 00:22:10.250
here so i'd be curious what you guys think about

00:22:10.250 --> 00:22:14.230
that component it's a good call out Joe uh i

00:22:14.230 --> 00:22:18.210
mean i suffer from eBay app addiction for sure

00:22:18.210 --> 00:22:20.750
you know the little blue light comes on and i

00:22:20.750 --> 00:22:23.579
have to clear them i have to clear them Regardless

00:22:23.579 --> 00:22:27.119
of what I'm doing, if I don't clear them, it's

00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:30.079
not good. It's not good. But let's hear from

00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:32.019
the other guys. Mike, what about you? Do you

00:22:32.019 --> 00:22:37.440
have that issue? Absolutely. eBay is a bad addiction.

00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:40.940
I had to move to a point a couple of years ago

00:22:40.940 --> 00:22:44.559
where I would not bid on anything on eBay unless

00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:47.180
I was doing a snipe bid through Gixxon at the

00:22:47.180 --> 00:22:49.559
end. Because what would happen was I would get

00:22:49.559 --> 00:22:52.519
fixated on winning the item. And I would end

00:22:52.519 --> 00:22:56.039
up just continuing to bid at the very end and

00:22:56.039 --> 00:23:00.460
would way overspend because I had to win it.

00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:03.799
And then afterwards, I would have spent $150

00:23:03.799 --> 00:23:07.839
on a card that I could have bought for $110 or

00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:09.619
whatever. And there's obviously somebody else

00:23:09.619 --> 00:23:11.200
on the other end of that with the same exact

00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:14.099
problem. And so now I just say, okay, I'm going

00:23:14.099 --> 00:23:17.720
to put a max bid in of $110, do that through

00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:21.000
Gixxon, which allows you to bid. before it's

00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:23.059
done, but you never see it. You're not part of

00:23:23.059 --> 00:23:27.240
it. You can put it in at any point and it makes

00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:30.720
it easier and it helps you control those urges.

00:23:31.079 --> 00:23:35.460
And I saw somebody has talked about cards can't

00:23:35.460 --> 00:23:37.359
be the only addiction. It's absolutely right.

00:23:37.500 --> 00:23:40.759
There's obviously something in you that becomes

00:23:40.759 --> 00:23:45.059
addicted to cards or whatever it is, buying on

00:23:45.059 --> 00:23:51.710
eBay, opening wax, whatever. I don't know. Yeah,

00:23:51.710 --> 00:23:55.349
fair comments for sure, Mike. And I think you've

00:23:55.349 --> 00:23:57.789
come up with somewhat a bit of a solve for yourself

00:23:57.789 --> 00:24:00.450
there. So that's good self -awareness and good

00:24:00.450 --> 00:24:03.890
execution. Now, Alyx, in your groups for yourself

00:24:03.890 --> 00:24:07.009
even, are you running into people with, nevermind

00:24:07.009 --> 00:24:09.730
breaking addiction, group breaks or personal

00:24:09.730 --> 00:24:11.690
breaks at the LCS, whatever it might be, are

00:24:11.690 --> 00:24:15.289
you running into people who are addicted to just

00:24:15.289 --> 00:24:18.049
buying singles at card shows, on eBay, wherever

00:24:18.049 --> 00:24:22.819
it may be, auction houses? Absolutely. I want

00:24:22.819 --> 00:24:26.319
to take a step back and bring up sort of a point

00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:28.880
you made earlier where gambling has been a part

00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:32.299
of the hobby. It's always had a presence since

00:24:32.299 --> 00:24:34.480
the very beginning, right? Whether it was buying

00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:36.759
packs and hoping to pull your favorite player,

00:24:36.859 --> 00:24:38.960
just chasing the big hit in the hobby box, that

00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:42.190
element of risk and reward is not new. But what's

00:24:42.190 --> 00:24:44.470
changed and what's made it more dangerous is

00:24:44.470 --> 00:24:48.509
this 24 -7 access, right? The shift. And so platforms

00:24:48.509 --> 00:24:52.029
like eBay and like these live stream breaking

00:24:52.029 --> 00:24:54.710
apps, they've taken something that used to be

00:24:54.710 --> 00:24:57.410
sort of occasional and turned it into something

00:24:57.410 --> 00:25:00.569
constant. So now you can chase auctions. You

00:25:00.569 --> 00:25:02.329
can enter breaks. You can place bids. You can

00:25:02.329 --> 00:25:04.910
rip packs all day, every day. There's no cool

00:25:04.910 --> 00:25:06.329
-off period. There's no built -in boundaries.

00:25:06.430 --> 00:25:09.839
And the dopamine loop. never ends all of these

00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:13.400
different platforms um or sort of uh different

00:25:13.400 --> 00:25:17.400
ways you can purchase cards whether it be buying

00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:20.680
singles or joining a break they all sort of um

00:25:20.680 --> 00:25:24.180
gravitate around the same dopamine centers in

00:25:24.180 --> 00:25:26.980
your brain right it's all about that dopamine

00:25:26.980 --> 00:25:30.779
rush getting that chase or chasing after something

00:25:30.779 --> 00:25:32.700
having something to look forward to receiving

00:25:32.700 --> 00:25:35.319
in the mail uh you're and you're always just

00:25:35.319 --> 00:25:38.259
one click away from that next rush so with eBay

00:25:38.259 --> 00:25:41.000
specifically it's the endless scroll right it's

00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:43.420
the thrill of the snipe the hunt for that that

00:25:43.420 --> 00:25:47.559
you know great deal with breaking it's live action

00:25:47.559 --> 00:25:49.720
the communal hype the illusion that you're next

00:25:50.269 --> 00:25:52.410
it's it's all gambling but now it's just dressed

00:25:52.410 --> 00:25:55.470
up as entertainment collecting and even investing

00:25:55.470 --> 00:25:58.390
i mean i saw people in the comments asking if

00:25:58.390 --> 00:26:01.789
uh stashing sealed wax is considered gambling

00:26:01.789 --> 00:26:05.470
again it all just feeds into the same dopamine

00:26:05.470 --> 00:26:08.029
centers in our in our brains and so the truth

00:26:08.029 --> 00:26:10.710
here is is most of us you know didn't see that

00:26:10.710 --> 00:26:13.150
shift happen it felt like evolution but what

00:26:13.150 --> 00:26:15.990
it really did was it amplified the compulsion

00:26:15.990 --> 00:26:18.319
that we talked about earlier with just going

00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:21.460
to your local store and buying a box of cards

00:26:21.460 --> 00:26:25.299
or a pack, it amplified that exponentially. And

00:26:25.299 --> 00:26:27.039
we're not chasing cards anymore. We're chasing

00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:30.119
feelings. And we're doing it on platforms designed

00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:33.220
to keep us hooked. They're all designed the same

00:26:33.220 --> 00:26:36.799
way. And I just want to say, it's not about shame.

00:26:37.289 --> 00:26:39.789
it's not about like putting anybody down or telling

00:26:39.789 --> 00:26:41.329
somebody they have a problem or that they're

00:26:41.329 --> 00:26:43.069
an addict it's just about creating awareness

00:26:43.069 --> 00:26:45.210
because once you see it for what it really is

00:26:45.210 --> 00:26:47.490
you can start to take back some of that control

00:26:47.490 --> 00:26:51.730
yeah the constant uh availability in your pocket

00:26:51.730 --> 00:26:55.630
the uh the lack of friction you know you don't

00:26:55.630 --> 00:26:57.250
have to get in the car and drive you don't even

00:26:57.250 --> 00:27:01.529
have to go to the website of a of a card seller,

00:27:01.710 --> 00:27:03.970
buy it and wait a couple days for the box to

00:27:03.970 --> 00:27:07.089
arrive, whether it's like a Tops Now or a Panini

00:27:07.089 --> 00:27:10.809
Instant or some reverse Dutch auction on Panini

00:27:10.809 --> 00:27:15.170
that you might buy from. There's no way. It's

00:27:15.170 --> 00:27:21.869
right there. It's very easy to just overspend,

00:27:21.869 --> 00:27:25.150
I suppose, if you don't have self -control. But

00:27:25.150 --> 00:27:31.119
this is not exclusive to the hobby. And like

00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:36.420
porn addiction is a real thing. You know, I don't

00:27:36.420 --> 00:27:38.839
know what you, what people, Playboy magazine,

00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:41.579
maybe was it, was it before you, the, you know,

00:27:41.579 --> 00:27:44.299
maybe there was some secret way to get VHS tapes

00:27:44.299 --> 00:27:47.220
of it. Now it's, it's on your phone. Like everything

00:27:47.220 --> 00:27:50.940
is easier now that we have our phones. I'm just

00:27:50.940 --> 00:27:53.619
saying it's that lack of that, that lack of friction

00:27:53.619 --> 00:27:59.259
makes anything that you, that is literally something.

00:28:00.129 --> 00:28:02.230
that you don't actually have to have in hand

00:28:02.230 --> 00:28:04.430
right away makes it that much quicker, right?

00:28:04.490 --> 00:28:07.049
You can just get it so much easier. So it's,

00:28:07.049 --> 00:28:09.589
again, it's not, this is the way the world is

00:28:09.589 --> 00:28:13.690
going. And I saw a comment myself and there's

00:28:13.690 --> 00:28:17.269
a couple, I think it's Stanley Gordon. I just

00:28:17.269 --> 00:28:19.769
want to read a couple of Stanley Gordon's comments

00:28:19.769 --> 00:28:23.230
here, you guys, because I see both sides of this,

00:28:23.289 --> 00:28:25.849
but I want to, so he says here, don't mean to

00:28:25.849 --> 00:28:28.180
be harsh. but a little self -discipline goes

00:28:28.180 --> 00:28:31.079
a long way. I highly doubt buying into breaks

00:28:31.079 --> 00:28:34.240
is the individual's only gambling addiction.

00:28:34.460 --> 00:28:39.720
Okay, maybe, maybe not, but it doesn't mean that

00:28:39.720 --> 00:28:44.500
people can't help, I suppose. He also says, I

00:28:44.500 --> 00:28:47.019
just don't feel it's the hobby's job to solve

00:28:47.019 --> 00:28:49.440
the issue of addiction. Every product can be

00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:51.920
consumed in an unhealthy way. And by every product,

00:28:51.980 --> 00:28:54.079
I don't think he means every card product. He

00:28:54.079 --> 00:28:57.740
means any product. From milk to fancy watches

00:28:57.740 --> 00:29:00.480
sort of thing. It's an interchangeable topic

00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:02.940
that's beaten to death, he says. And then he

00:29:02.940 --> 00:29:05.079
said, it's not the card's fault. The individual

00:29:05.079 --> 00:29:08.519
needs to look inward. Now, I'm just going to

00:29:08.519 --> 00:29:12.559
say one thing to all this, which is it doesn't

00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:14.579
sound to me like Stanley Gordon has ever had

00:29:14.579 --> 00:29:16.319
somebody close to him suffer from addiction.

00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:21.180
Because I have. I have to the extreme, extreme,

00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:26.200
extreme, extremist of situations. And and I went

00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:30.059
through a phase of my life where I had some similar

00:29:30.059 --> 00:29:33.839
sort of thoughts in my head to what Stanley Gordon

00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:37.759
has and he's sharing here with us. And it wasn't

00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:42.579
until it hit home that I started to realize that

00:29:42.579 --> 00:29:47.240
I was kind of being very limited in my view and

00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:54.480
unempathetic and just not. the way i want it

00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:58.640
to continue to be so uh but Alyx i know that

00:29:58.640 --> 00:30:00.400
this is something that's close to you and you'll

00:30:00.400 --> 00:30:02.819
probably do a better job of articulating kind

00:30:02.819 --> 00:30:06.000
of your response of that sort of outlook than

00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:08.539
maybe i have because i can get really emotional

00:30:08.539 --> 00:30:11.259
about this very quickly so i'm going to turn

00:30:11.259 --> 00:30:13.579
it over to you please yeah i mean Jeremy you

00:30:13.579 --> 00:30:15.660
brought up such a great point um i think a lot

00:30:15.660 --> 00:30:18.430
of people just don't necessarily realizing it's

00:30:18.430 --> 00:30:20.789
not Stanley's fault. It's not their fault that

00:30:20.789 --> 00:30:23.710
they don't understand, you know, the full scope

00:30:23.710 --> 00:30:26.210
of addiction and what addiction can do to an

00:30:26.210 --> 00:30:29.549
individual. And if you haven't had somebody close

00:30:29.549 --> 00:30:32.250
to you experience addiction, you haven't seen

00:30:32.250 --> 00:30:36.529
the pain, the suffering, the challenges that

00:30:36.529 --> 00:30:38.650
can come with different types of addiction firsthand,

00:30:38.910 --> 00:30:41.769
then, you know, you might just not necessarily.

00:30:42.619 --> 00:30:44.559
be able to wrap your head around how you know

00:30:44.559 --> 00:30:47.099
something like a childhood hobby sports cards

00:30:47.099 --> 00:30:49.940
could be considered addiction right so i totally

00:30:49.940 --> 00:30:52.039
hear where you're coming from stanley and i don't

00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:55.200
think you're being harsh uh i i just think self

00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:58.440
-discipline you know it is a big part of it but

00:30:58.440 --> 00:31:01.059
the reality is these systems are built to exploit

00:31:01.059 --> 00:31:03.960
the lack of self -discipline it's not just about

00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:07.119
willpower it's about constant exposure psychological

00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:10.000
design and the way these platforms are sort of

00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:12.700
engineered to trigger impulse loops. And you're

00:31:12.700 --> 00:31:15.839
right, that breaks might not necessarily be someone's

00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:18.279
only gambling struggle. But for a lot of people,

00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:20.779
it's the one that fuels the most socially acceptable.

00:31:21.140 --> 00:31:24.759
It's not necessarily a casino. It's fun. It's

00:31:24.759 --> 00:31:27.279
community. And so that makes it a lot easier

00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:30.579
to justify and way harder to recognize when it

00:31:30.579 --> 00:31:33.500
becomes a real issue. So this isn't about removing

00:31:33.500 --> 00:31:37.940
personal responsibility. As adults, I understand,

00:31:38.140 --> 00:31:40.779
trust me, it's very important for us to take

00:31:40.779 --> 00:31:42.579
a step back and self -reflect and make sure that

00:31:42.579 --> 00:31:46.180
we're taking personal inventory and, you know,

00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:49.019
doing things responsibly. But it's also about

00:31:49.019 --> 00:31:51.779
acknowledging how powerful these systems are

00:31:51.779 --> 00:31:54.960
and why real safeguards matter. And again, especially

00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:57.099
for the kids, especially for the next generation

00:31:57.099 --> 00:32:00.180
of individuals who just don't necessarily have

00:32:00.180 --> 00:32:02.720
the tools and resources or perhaps, you know,

00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:06.039
aren't properly educated on this. sort of stuff.

00:32:06.140 --> 00:32:08.440
So again, it's just, it's adding a layer of support.

00:32:08.539 --> 00:32:11.099
It's adding a layer of education and providing

00:32:11.099 --> 00:32:14.539
tools and resources to protect, you know, the

00:32:14.539 --> 00:32:17.400
people in this community. And those who might

00:32:17.400 --> 00:32:20.900
not have that level of self -discipline to pull

00:32:20.900 --> 00:32:24.119
away before it's too late for whatever reason.

00:32:24.359 --> 00:32:27.740
Mike, anything you would like to kind of say

00:32:27.740 --> 00:32:31.019
before you hop off? I know you got to go. I know

00:32:31.019 --> 00:32:33.279
it's late for you and you got big videos to put

00:32:33.279 --> 00:32:35.339
out tomorrow. uh but i want to give you a chance

00:32:35.339 --> 00:32:38.980
to kind of uh put a bow on your your uh inaugural

00:32:38.980 --> 00:32:41.460
appearance here on sports cards live and i do

00:32:41.460 --> 00:32:42.880
hope to have you back but anything you'd like

00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:46.099
to say before you hop off i appreciate the discussion

00:32:46.099 --> 00:32:49.519
the comments are fantastic too uh you know like

00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:53.240
greg midlife cards talking about kids uh being

00:32:53.240 --> 00:32:56.180
protected which is important i see ziggy who's

00:32:56.180 --> 00:32:59.079
always got good comments talking about breaks

00:32:59.079 --> 00:33:01.119
aren't the problem. And I don't think any of

00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:03.900
us ever said anything bad about breaks. You know,

00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:06.779
I think that there are a lot of things that are

00:33:06.779 --> 00:33:11.519
hobby specific that are addiction problems. And

00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:13.920
like, like we talked about, it's not specifically,

00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:16.680
or it may not be the only thing that you're addicted

00:33:16.680 --> 00:33:19.519
to, or maybe it just expanded your addiction

00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:23.920
problem. But yeah, there's just a lot of, a lot

00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:28.250
of things that go into this. And I don't think

00:33:28.250 --> 00:33:30.250
we can cover it in the half hour that we've had.

00:33:31.069 --> 00:33:35.450
Yeah, well, we'll continue. And again, I know

00:33:35.450 --> 00:33:36.849
you got to go. We'll continue chatting about

00:33:36.849 --> 00:33:40.950
it here with Alyx. And in about 40 minutes time,

00:33:41.089 --> 00:33:42.609
we're going to have Chris Hoj join the show.

00:33:42.710 --> 00:33:45.069
And we'll have a new topic by then. Josh Adams

00:33:45.069 --> 00:33:48.369
is, I think, going to surprise join as well at

00:33:48.369 --> 00:33:51.930
that point in time. But Mike, Junk Wax Hero,

00:33:52.049 --> 00:33:54.269
thank you for joining us. Look forward to seeing

00:33:54.269 --> 00:33:58.640
you at the National. here in 25 days so thanks

00:33:58.640 --> 00:34:01.119
again for joining us mike appreciate it thanks

00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:06.779
for having me see you guys all right so let's

00:34:06.779 --> 00:34:11.139
uh let's keep on talking Alyx and maybe um maybe

00:34:11.139 --> 00:34:14.420
i'll take a moment now at this guest well as

00:34:14.420 --> 00:34:17.119
as mike has left to read some comments from the

00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:20.519
chat that we haven't quite talked about yet i

00:34:20.519 --> 00:34:23.599
gotta just to add a little humor uh greg here

00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:26.000
says going to bed is a bigger gamble for mrs

00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:30.039
midlife uh sports fix says new wax is a double

00:34:30.039 --> 00:34:32.460
gamble you hope to get the hot rookie and you

00:34:32.460 --> 00:34:35.659
hope he has a hall of fame career right which

00:34:35.659 --> 00:34:38.820
reminds me of the comment uh about i think i

00:34:38.820 --> 00:34:41.360
have it marked to come but and you've raised

00:34:41.360 --> 00:34:45.380
that Alyx was is is holding unopened wax a gamble

00:34:45.380 --> 00:34:47.380
and right away i thought about the zion rookie

00:34:47.380 --> 00:34:50.219
class and people were stocking up on that And

00:34:50.219 --> 00:34:53.239
then it didn't work out. I mean, I think that

00:34:53.239 --> 00:34:57.599
is certainly a gamble. Chris C. says, the most

00:34:57.599 --> 00:35:00.460
gambling seems to be breaking plus opening wax.

00:35:00.920 --> 00:35:03.599
I don't disagree with that. Dan's Venture says,

00:35:03.719 --> 00:35:06.960
Alyx is a true hobby hero. I think we're all

00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:09.739
on that page. Fowlball, good evening. Welcome

00:35:09.739 --> 00:35:12.019
to the show. Fun Bobby says, pretty sure that

00:35:12.019 --> 00:35:13.599
if you buy a box of chocolates, you're going

00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:16.400
to get chocolates. Daniel Brown says, regulate

00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:19.699
breaking. Timepiece Esquire says, my name is

00:35:19.699 --> 00:35:21.480
Timepiece Esquire and I have an addiction to

00:35:21.480 --> 00:35:25.579
beautiful Pavel Bure cards. Justin Boat, it's

00:35:25.579 --> 00:35:27.400
been a while, buddy. He's checking in. I had

00:35:27.400 --> 00:35:29.599
to get a new girlfriend. Last one dumped me finally.

00:35:29.699 --> 00:35:32.760
Miss you too, Justin. I'm glad you're here. Dan's

00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:34.679
Vintage says, be smart with your money. Don't

00:35:34.679 --> 00:35:37.420
trust games of chance. Never use debt to fund

00:35:37.420 --> 00:35:41.280
a hobby. All great advice if you can execute

00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:44.010
upon it, which not everybody can. Cardboard and

00:35:44.010 --> 00:35:46.389
Plastics says, unfortunately, it is hard for

00:35:46.389 --> 00:35:48.389
us to influence new people in the hobby to not

00:35:48.389 --> 00:35:51.269
gamble when the biggest influencers are pushing

00:35:51.269 --> 00:35:53.809
mystery packs and it is supported by the biggest

00:35:53.809 --> 00:35:56.170
companies. Yeah, the only thing I'll say about

00:35:56.170 --> 00:36:00.369
that is, not that we've got to try, but if you

00:36:00.369 --> 00:36:03.210
want to try, try. I mean, not everybody is on

00:36:03.210 --> 00:36:06.349
YouTube. Not every new collector is on YouTube,

00:36:06.429 --> 00:36:08.619
but... That's also not something that we can

00:36:08.619 --> 00:36:11.059
count on. And Alyx, I'm going to ask you to take

00:36:11.059 --> 00:36:12.840
notes in your head to respond to a bunch of these

00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:15.980
after, okay? Yeah. Dan Brown says, Jeremy, you

00:36:15.980 --> 00:36:18.219
should have a breaker on and legit challenge

00:36:18.219 --> 00:36:20.019
them on this issue. That's going to be a real

00:36:20.019 --> 00:36:22.900
difference maker. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure I've

00:36:22.900 --> 00:36:25.099
had breakers on here before, and I'd be happy

00:36:25.099 --> 00:36:31.179
to have a breaker on. I know Ziggy's a breaker

00:36:31.179 --> 00:36:33.820
now, and he's always in the chat, and he's passionate

00:36:33.820 --> 00:36:36.380
about it. Maybe Ziggy's the guy. We'll see. Hockey

00:36:36.380 --> 00:36:39.139
Cardboard says, should card packs have warnings

00:36:39.139 --> 00:36:41.760
on them like cigarette packs? Alyx, I want you

00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:43.500
to talk about that one after I'm done going through

00:36:43.500 --> 00:36:46.420
comments. Sports Fix, is stashing wax gambling?

00:36:46.699 --> 00:36:50.000
I think it can be. Dan's Venture says, Jeremy,

00:36:50.059 --> 00:36:51.940
that is what the Goudy Gum Company did to kids

00:36:51.940 --> 00:36:55.539
in 1933 with a Napa Lajue. Yeah, I mean, they

00:36:55.539 --> 00:36:59.119
did it in 1923, the Patterson Chocolate Company.

00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:02.380
uh did it with the one guy whose name is escaping

00:37:02.380 --> 00:37:04.400
me right now it's a big hockey grail i don't

00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:07.599
give two poops about because he's uh not an important

00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:10.539
player thankfully brett miles says great topic

00:37:10.539 --> 00:37:13.400
hobby social content can point an unrealistic

00:37:13.400 --> 00:37:16.079
portrait of what's collecting is especially for

00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:18.980
someone starting out and or with limited funds

00:37:18.980 --> 00:37:22.699
big hit after big hit creates a skewed view high

00:37:22.699 --> 00:37:25.260
pop professor says casinos can regulate the payouts

00:37:25.260 --> 00:37:28.860
of their slot machines like 90 of the money that

00:37:28.860 --> 00:37:31.320
is put in, the value of cards is so volatile

00:37:31.320 --> 00:37:34.320
that no guarantee of value could ever be made

00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:37.280
as a regulation. It's a tough problem. I think

00:37:37.280 --> 00:37:39.300
that's such a smart comment. Hi, Pop. Thank you

00:37:39.300 --> 00:37:43.320
for that one. Midlife Greg says, this is such

00:37:43.320 --> 00:37:46.199
an important topic. Talking about it is crucial.

00:37:46.699 --> 00:37:49.980
Ziggy, no. So many people not participating in

00:37:49.980 --> 00:37:52.179
breaking are so concerned about breaks. It's

00:37:52.179 --> 00:37:54.460
the Catholic Church analogy. How about participate?

00:37:54.920 --> 00:37:57.360
or make your own breaks. I hear what you're saying,

00:37:57.400 --> 00:37:58.800
Ziggy. The only thing I'll say to that is that

00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:00.440
people, just because you're not participating

00:38:00.440 --> 00:38:02.539
doesn't mean you're not observing and seeing

00:38:02.539 --> 00:38:05.840
what is happening. It's not just the Catholic

00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:07.719
Church. It's also people going to sporting events

00:38:07.719 --> 00:38:10.420
and saying, you suck out there. Well, you're

00:38:10.420 --> 00:38:12.900
not playing. You suck worse than they do. Sancho

00:38:12.900 --> 00:38:15.500
says, it's safe to open all the boxes as long

00:38:15.500 --> 00:38:17.179
as you don't sell the cards. If you don't sell

00:38:17.179 --> 00:38:20.139
them, you don't lose. I have so many issues with

00:38:20.139 --> 00:38:23.909
this comment, Sancho. I think that to me is something

00:38:23.909 --> 00:38:27.889
that you tell yourself, but just because you're

00:38:27.889 --> 00:38:30.570
not locking in a loss doesn't mean that you're

00:38:30.570 --> 00:38:33.710
not losing, especially if you don't like the

00:38:33.710 --> 00:38:35.889
cards. If they don't give you any satisfaction

00:38:35.889 --> 00:38:38.630
from owning them, I just don't agree with that

00:38:38.630 --> 00:38:40.510
one. Alyx, I can see you've got a lot of thoughts

00:38:40.510 --> 00:38:42.250
brewing. Keep them brewing. Keep them brewing.

00:38:42.590 --> 00:38:45.409
Justin Bowe, Jay Lee, I also quit drinking 172

00:38:45.409 --> 00:38:48.880
days sober. love you baby justin and and congr

00:38:48.880 --> 00:38:53.039
172 buddy keep it going one day at a time uh

00:38:53.039 --> 00:38:55.039
dan's vinches says auction house addiction is

00:38:55.039 --> 00:38:57.920
also a thing mookie chilson says Joe is right

00:38:57.920 --> 00:39:00.440
your attention is a currency eBay loves stealing

00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:04.900
my attention uh ziggy no says singles are the

00:39:04.900 --> 00:39:07.039
biggest gamble you buy a card you expect it to

00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:09.500
go up for no reason except market no value i

00:39:09.500 --> 00:39:11.599
completely disagree with that ziggy at least

00:39:11.599 --> 00:39:14.019
you know what you're buying and you might have

00:39:14.940 --> 00:39:19.880
enough experience both in the hobby and in uh

00:39:19.880 --> 00:39:23.619
assessing players to to really mitigate that

00:39:23.619 --> 00:39:27.199
risk whereas opening a box or opening a whole

00:39:27.199 --> 00:39:30.219
box or buying a spot in a break uh you really

00:39:30.219 --> 00:39:33.380
may just get nothing for it especially when you're

00:39:33.380 --> 00:39:36.380
buying a spot in a break so i don't i think singles

00:39:36.380 --> 00:39:39.500
and i can i actually have like first -hand evidence

00:39:39.500 --> 00:39:44.480
at least if you have well at least like You know,

00:39:44.500 --> 00:39:46.380
I've been calling myself a sharpshooter since

00:39:46.380 --> 00:39:49.940
I really stopped opening product 15 years ago

00:39:49.940 --> 00:39:51.900
because I found that all I was doing was losing

00:39:51.900 --> 00:39:55.900
money. Now I buy singles and it's been financially

00:39:55.900 --> 00:40:00.980
extremely rewarding. So I just disagree. It can

00:40:00.980 --> 00:40:03.039
be, though, if all you're buying is the hottest

00:40:03.039 --> 00:40:05.579
rookie and they break an ankle. Fun Bobby says

00:40:05.579 --> 00:40:07.800
breakers are becoming filthy rich from gamblers

00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:10.340
with no self -control on a credit card. And Simon

00:40:10.340 --> 00:40:12.849
says. There's a reason why the Breakers Pavilion

00:40:12.849 --> 00:40:15.230
at the National feels like a casino. And after

00:40:15.230 --> 00:40:18.690
going through all those, I've got 50 unread comments.

00:40:18.769 --> 00:40:20.349
So, guys, I'm not going to get to them all, but

00:40:20.349 --> 00:40:22.929
I'm now going to turn it back over to Alyx. I

00:40:22.929 --> 00:40:24.429
hope you've been taking notes, Alyx. There's

00:40:24.429 --> 00:40:27.730
a lot. I want you to, Joe, keep eating that popcorn

00:40:27.730 --> 00:40:29.469
because Alyx is going to go off for a bit here,

00:40:29.530 --> 00:40:33.750
I think. Yeah, I'm not going to. Well, I am going

00:40:33.750 --> 00:40:35.150
to answer some of these questions specifically,

00:40:35.269 --> 00:40:37.250
but I'm going to kind of generalize a lot of

00:40:37.250 --> 00:40:41.079
this. First and foremost, this is a layered issue,

00:40:41.280 --> 00:40:44.440
and all of this deserves real conversation. So

00:40:44.440 --> 00:40:47.019
I'm going to start by saying gambling has always

00:40:47.019 --> 00:40:48.800
been a part of the hobby in some form. We were

00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:50.519
just talking about that. That's something that

00:40:50.519 --> 00:40:53.199
Jeremy has touched on several times, and I couldn't

00:40:53.199 --> 00:40:55.679
agree more. That thrill of the unknown, the chase

00:40:55.679 --> 00:40:59.000
for a rare pull, that's been there since the

00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:01.909
beginning. But what's changed is the access.

00:41:02.230 --> 00:41:06.690
Again, with these platforms, everything has just

00:41:06.690 --> 00:41:09.349
turned into 24 -7 exposure. You're no longer

00:41:09.349 --> 00:41:11.849
grabbing a packet at your local store once in

00:41:11.849 --> 00:41:14.610
a while. You're ripping at 2 a .m. on a Tuesday,

00:41:14.929 --> 00:41:20.130
bidding on auctions subconsciously, not even

00:41:20.130 --> 00:41:22.070
realizing that your thumb is hitting the bid

00:41:22.070 --> 00:41:24.510
button. You're joining breaks while half listening

00:41:24.510 --> 00:41:27.880
in a meeting at work. like the hobby went from

00:41:27.880 --> 00:41:31.739
casual to constant and that's when the line sort

00:41:31.739 --> 00:41:34.780
of started to blur right so with that when it

00:41:34.780 --> 00:41:38.539
comes to sealed wax or breaks there's a big difference

00:41:38.539 --> 00:41:41.739
stashing sealed product may not necessarily feel

00:41:41.739 --> 00:41:44.840
like gambling but the intent often mirrors it

00:41:44.840 --> 00:41:47.480
right you're holding it you're investing in something

00:41:47.480 --> 00:41:50.900
and you're hoping that it spikes in value at

00:41:50.900 --> 00:41:53.480
some point so you're you're keeping it sealed

00:41:53.480 --> 00:41:55.840
to avoid the guilt of ripping it all in one go

00:41:55.840 --> 00:41:58.699
perhaps it's like some sort of delayed gratification

00:41:58.699 --> 00:42:00.780
and you know you have some self -control that

00:42:00.780 --> 00:42:04.000
you didn't just you know rip it open but it's

00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:06.340
still sort of tied to that same dopamine loop

00:42:06.340 --> 00:42:10.679
and the ultimate goal right is to win is to profit

00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:14.179
on that so that hope for value and that on underlying

00:42:14.179 --> 00:42:17.780
sort of impulse is is gambling break specifically

00:42:17.780 --> 00:42:19.900
and again i mentioned there are layers to this

00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:24.019
breaks specifically are gambling in plain sight

00:42:24.019 --> 00:42:26.599
you're you're paying for a randomized chance

00:42:26.599 --> 00:42:31.260
and you most of the time 90 of the time you either

00:42:31.260 --> 00:42:33.480
walk away with nothing or you walk away with

00:42:33.480 --> 00:42:38.199
a fraction of what you invest in it right it's

00:42:38.199 --> 00:42:40.380
it's a slot machine just wrapped in shiny cardboard

00:42:40.380 --> 00:42:44.260
and a whole ton of influencer energy uh you've

00:42:44.260 --> 00:42:46.420
got the excitement you've got community you've

00:42:46.420 --> 00:42:48.519
got the pressure everything is sort of mixed

00:42:48.519 --> 00:42:51.500
together and that cycle just creates something

00:42:51.500 --> 00:42:54.320
that's that's really really dangerous and again

00:42:54.320 --> 00:42:57.239
especially for younger collectors who are more

00:42:57.239 --> 00:43:00.079
prone and more impressionable and vulnerable

00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:02.960
to addictive behaviors and predators and bad

00:43:02.960 --> 00:43:06.079
actors in the hobby so um going to the question

00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:11.389
where um somebody asked should packs have warning

00:43:11.389 --> 00:43:15.150
labels like cigarette boxes i mean honestly like

00:43:15.150 --> 00:43:17.170
it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world because

00:43:17.170 --> 00:43:20.110
whether it's like buying into breaks stashing

00:43:20.110 --> 00:43:23.309
sealed wax ripping packs by yourself when you're

00:43:23.309 --> 00:43:26.130
feeling down or like you're feeling that itch

00:43:26.130 --> 00:43:29.750
they're all addictive triggers like all around

00:43:29.750 --> 00:43:33.190
us even just like something very subtle like

00:43:33.190 --> 00:43:35.610
a message that says this product contains randomized

00:43:35.610 --> 00:43:38.590
content odds of pulling a high value card or

00:43:39.309 --> 00:43:42.469
Making your money back are extremely low. Please

00:43:42.469 --> 00:43:45.590
collect responsibly. Please rip responsibly.

00:43:45.670 --> 00:43:47.849
It doesn't really matter how we word it. We just

00:43:47.849 --> 00:43:49.449
need to make sure that that underlying message

00:43:49.449 --> 00:43:52.469
is consistent. And that can really, really go

00:43:52.469 --> 00:43:54.630
a long way. And it's not about killing the fun.

00:43:54.750 --> 00:43:57.469
It's not about canceling the hobby. We always

00:43:57.469 --> 00:44:00.050
say we're not anti -hobby. It's just about being

00:44:00.050 --> 00:44:02.630
more informed, making intentional decisions,

00:44:02.949 --> 00:44:05.050
collecting with purpose, collecting with clarity.

00:44:05.210 --> 00:44:07.409
And it's about giving people the tools to...

00:44:07.719 --> 00:44:11.059
pause self -reflect and sort of just take a step

00:44:11.059 --> 00:44:13.900
back and and make sure that again they're going

00:44:13.900 --> 00:44:17.440
about their hobby within their means because

00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:20.059
the truth is the hobby is no longer low stakes

00:44:20.059 --> 00:44:23.760
or kid -centered right it's it's fast it's loud

00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:26.099
it's expensive and it's designed to keep you

00:44:26.099 --> 00:44:29.539
hooked these these platforms have added in all

00:44:29.539 --> 00:44:31.679
of these bells and whistles to make it look like

00:44:31.679 --> 00:44:35.059
a casino and you know when i showed my dad recently

00:44:36.159 --> 00:44:38.940
the user experience on Whatnot, he was scratching

00:44:38.940 --> 00:44:41.139
his head. He was like, this is literally like

00:44:41.139 --> 00:44:45.099
being inside of a casino. I feel like I'm at

00:44:45.099 --> 00:44:48.199
Harrah's in Atlantic City right now. And it's

00:44:48.199 --> 00:44:50.420
crazy because we're also just like accustomed

00:44:50.420 --> 00:44:52.579
to it. We're almost numb to it. We see it all

00:44:52.579 --> 00:44:55.139
the time. So nobody's really like putting two

00:44:55.139 --> 00:44:58.079
and two together and realizing that this is what

00:44:58.079 --> 00:45:01.980
it is. It was designed this way to make more

00:45:01.980 --> 00:45:04.599
money. So, you know, with all that being said,

00:45:04.639 --> 00:45:06.780
we're not saying don't collect. We're just saying

00:45:06.780 --> 00:45:09.440
know what you're getting yourself into, because

00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:11.739
if we keep pretending that it's all just harmless

00:45:11.739 --> 00:45:13.219
fun, more people are just going to keep getting

00:45:13.219 --> 00:45:16.460
hurt. And the industry's silence, you know, won't

00:45:16.460 --> 00:45:20.440
be so easy to excuse. So, you know, I think we're

00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:22.360
sort of at that breaking point where if we don't

00:45:22.360 --> 00:45:25.099
act now, we don't make the changes and start

00:45:25.099 --> 00:45:28.880
to really aggressively push for industry reform

00:45:28.880 --> 00:45:32.909
as a collective community. where we're going

00:45:32.909 --> 00:45:35.510
to be doomed. The next generation is not going

00:45:35.510 --> 00:45:39.389
to be set up for success. Okay, well, thank you

00:45:39.389 --> 00:45:42.869
for all that, for responding to all that. I've

00:45:42.869 --> 00:45:44.829
got a lot of things to say. So I'm going to take

00:45:44.829 --> 00:45:47.630
a moment and gather my thoughts in my notes here

00:45:47.630 --> 00:45:51.670
and let Joe, if you don't mind, just share what

00:45:51.670 --> 00:45:53.849
you've been thinking, Joe, as you've been listening

00:45:53.849 --> 00:45:56.710
to all the comments I was reading and to Alyx's

00:45:56.710 --> 00:46:00.570
response, if you don't mind. Yeah, I mean, I

00:46:00.570 --> 00:46:03.750
would just underscore Alyx's point that, you

00:46:03.750 --> 00:46:07.909
know, this is this is very nuanced and complex.

00:46:08.070 --> 00:46:10.849
Right. There's a lot of different components

00:46:10.849 --> 00:46:14.369
to this from the industry to the individual.

00:46:14.869 --> 00:46:17.769
I tend to focus on the individual. And anytime

00:46:17.769 --> 00:46:21.750
I see individuals that, you know, are being hurt

00:46:21.750 --> 00:46:25.369
by a particular situation, if you know that that's

00:46:25.369 --> 00:46:30.239
concerning to me because I'm. I'm empathetic.

00:46:30.699 --> 00:46:35.920
And I guess, you know, to get to brass tacks,

00:46:36.079 --> 00:46:40.940
I've never been in a break, but, you know, I

00:46:40.940 --> 00:46:45.400
have ripped some wax. And I think where my brain

00:46:45.400 --> 00:46:50.619
goes as a practical person is what would be the

00:46:50.619 --> 00:46:55.559
right amount for breakers to charge, a more modest

00:46:55.559 --> 00:47:00.309
amount, I would think. to facilitate pack opening,

00:47:00.690 --> 00:47:05.429
the breaking of isolation, the thrill of the

00:47:05.429 --> 00:47:09.170
hunt, all the different things that this pursuit

00:47:09.170 --> 00:47:12.829
sort of is compelling, why it's compelling to

00:47:12.829 --> 00:47:16.929
people. I don't think breaking's going away,

00:47:17.269 --> 00:47:22.590
but I do think that safeguarding the ways in

00:47:22.590 --> 00:47:26.079
which it's conducted is important to all of us

00:47:26.079 --> 00:47:28.820
even if we're not breakers because it does it

00:47:28.820 --> 00:47:32.300
does create a healthier hobby ecosystem to have

00:47:32.300 --> 00:47:35.539
people not fleeing and also more importantly

00:47:35.539 --> 00:47:39.000
way more importantly human beings you know having

00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:43.420
their lives impacted um in in in critically negative

00:47:43.420 --> 00:47:47.039
ways um so you know my my question would sort

00:47:47.039 --> 00:47:49.820
of be along the lines you know i i i'd love the

00:47:49.820 --> 00:47:52.900
chat tonight the chat's been you know, I don't

00:47:52.900 --> 00:47:55.179
want to say on fire, but they've been very engaged.

00:47:55.820 --> 00:47:59.940
And I guess, you know, the question becomes,

00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:04.460
is there a sweet spot where people can be at

00:48:04.460 --> 00:48:07.900
least doing breaks, but without the massive markups

00:48:07.900 --> 00:48:12.559
that already are inherent to most ripping of

00:48:12.559 --> 00:48:16.269
wax, right? If we think of 30 % ROI. But then

00:48:16.269 --> 00:48:19.030
breakers are finding a way to sort of fractionalize

00:48:19.030 --> 00:48:22.030
the spots that make it even more and more and

00:48:22.030 --> 00:48:27.010
more of a leap. I guess that's one lever, right?

00:48:27.130 --> 00:48:29.769
But the most critical lever that I think Alyx

00:48:29.769 --> 00:48:33.230
is on the front lines with is helping the individuals.

00:48:33.429 --> 00:48:37.449
And that's, you know, that is essential. And

00:48:37.449 --> 00:48:39.849
there's all kinds of corollaries in the world.

00:48:39.869 --> 00:48:42.809
It's not just sports cards. But here we are.

00:48:42.869 --> 00:48:44.949
This is a sports card show. This is our hobby.

00:48:45.500 --> 00:48:48.139
And so we should be stewards for the greater

00:48:48.139 --> 00:48:51.079
good. Yeah. Yeah. We're not going to get into

00:48:51.079 --> 00:48:53.159
the boo -boo, unfortunately, because this is

00:48:53.159 --> 00:48:55.179
a sports card channel. But, you know, we have

00:48:55.179 --> 00:48:57.119
talked about some other things as well, of course.

00:48:57.179 --> 00:48:59.699
So a couple of things I wanted to say, and thank

00:48:59.699 --> 00:49:03.199
you, Joe. So I started talking about all this

00:49:03.199 --> 00:49:06.760
addiction stuff here on, well, myself on my various

00:49:06.760 --> 00:49:10.800
platforms, i .e. Instagram X and YouTube. After

00:49:10.800 --> 00:49:14.920
listening to an episode. of the shallow end podcast

00:49:14.920 --> 00:49:17.380
the iowa dave show one of my favorite podcasts

00:49:17.380 --> 00:49:22.260
out there and uh when he talked about the as

00:49:22.260 --> 00:49:25.800
and that's why i'm calling him the uh the the

00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:28.300
what does he call them the casino in your pockets

00:49:28.300 --> 00:49:30.500
the group break i forget exactly the words he

00:49:30.500 --> 00:49:33.380
used but the casino in your pocket era of the

00:49:33.380 --> 00:49:36.659
hobby and i was listening to the podcast and

00:49:36.659 --> 00:49:40.670
and i The next day, I put out a post on Instagram

00:49:40.670 --> 00:49:43.170
and Twitter that got a ton of engagement and

00:49:43.170 --> 00:49:46.570
a lot of pushback against me. I did mess up a

00:49:46.570 --> 00:49:48.710
part of the post where I kind of did get something

00:49:48.710 --> 00:49:53.349
wrong. But it was after listening to Iowa Dave.

00:49:53.570 --> 00:49:57.409
And before I put out my post, we got on the phone,

00:49:57.510 --> 00:50:00.570
Dave and I. And I said, hey, listen to your pod.

00:50:00.730 --> 00:50:02.449
And Dave and I are friends. We talked on the

00:50:02.449 --> 00:50:04.780
phone before. I said, Dave. Listen to your podcast.

00:50:04.840 --> 00:50:06.760
There's one thing, though, that I didn't agree

00:50:06.760 --> 00:50:08.599
with. And I want to make sure I understand it

00:50:08.599 --> 00:50:10.599
and just see if we can get on the same page,

00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:13.139
because it didn't make sense to me where he kind

00:50:13.139 --> 00:50:16.599
of in the podcast. And I'm paraphrasing. So,

00:50:16.619 --> 00:50:18.760
Dave, please forgive me if I'm not saying this

00:50:18.760 --> 00:50:21.659
right. But he kind of said that, you know, gambling,

00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:25.079
you can gamble on these online casinos like the

00:50:25.079 --> 00:50:27.079
Whatnots, Fanatics Lives, etc. But going into

00:50:27.079 --> 00:50:30.519
an LCS is not gambling. And I said, well, I think

00:50:30.519 --> 00:50:33.139
it is. not all the time but i think it can be

00:50:33.139 --> 00:50:35.820
so we had a long conversation we ended that conversation

00:50:35.820 --> 00:50:39.219
basically with agreeing that it's not that buying

00:50:39.219 --> 00:50:42.179
wax at an lcs isn't gambling it's what Alyx was

00:50:42.179 --> 00:50:44.400
saying before we've all agreed it's the ease

00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:47.420
of access and the lack of friction to buy cards

00:50:47.420 --> 00:50:50.380
to buy into breaks and break product online whether

00:50:50.380 --> 00:50:52.559
you're part of a group break or whether you are

00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:57.539
buying a personal uh a personal box for yourself

00:50:57.539 --> 00:50:59.679
as they call them percy's now i've come to learn

00:51:00.469 --> 00:51:03.289
So that's what triggered me to put up a post.

00:51:03.409 --> 00:51:04.650
And I'm going to put it on the screen right now

00:51:04.650 --> 00:51:07.769
for anybody who didn't see it. Right here it

00:51:07.769 --> 00:51:10.550
says, if Whatnot, this is me talking, if Whatnot

00:51:10.550 --> 00:51:12.989
and Fanatics Live are breaking casinos, and let's

00:51:12.989 --> 00:51:15.969
be honest, your LCS is one too. Ripping wax has

00:51:15.969 --> 00:51:18.630
always been gambling. I stand by all this to

00:51:18.630 --> 00:51:20.630
this day, and that has to do with my own real

00:51:20.630 --> 00:51:23.969
experiences and friends' experiences. I go on,

00:51:24.030 --> 00:51:25.829
and this is where I get it wrong. Same odds.

00:51:26.590 --> 00:51:29.920
That's wrong. And Rob. From Burbank said it's

00:51:29.920 --> 00:51:32.139
not the same odds because group breakers will

00:51:32.139 --> 00:51:35.719
mark up. He calls it the VIG, the markup. It'll

00:51:35.719 --> 00:51:39.539
be higher. I agree. The higher the price, the

00:51:39.539 --> 00:51:42.380
worse the odds. Now, getting something doesn't

00:51:42.380 --> 00:51:45.440
change, but it's like the risk is different.

00:51:45.599 --> 00:51:48.780
But so I agree that that's a bit that wasn't

00:51:48.780 --> 00:51:52.019
correct. i say same odds same risk i think that

00:51:52.019 --> 00:51:54.780
was incorrect now i go on to say different vibe

00:51:54.780 --> 00:51:58.039
different decor that's what Alyx was saying it's

00:51:58.039 --> 00:52:00.840
all it's it's the high pressure sales it's the

00:52:00.840 --> 00:52:03.360
trying to get people to spend more money it's

00:52:03.360 --> 00:52:06.760
and it's the it's almost like some not all great

00:52:06.760 --> 00:52:09.440
breakers do this but shaming people to spend

00:52:09.440 --> 00:52:12.079
more money on certain spots and i go on to say

00:52:12.079 --> 00:52:14.199
it's not about where you rip it's that you're

00:52:14.199 --> 00:52:17.289
ripping Now, I stand by this, but I did put out

00:52:17.289 --> 00:52:20.630
a follow -up post the next day, which I'll share

00:52:20.630 --> 00:52:22.789
with you right here, where I said, you know,

00:52:22.809 --> 00:52:24.969
I'm here for the passion. Respectful disagreement

00:52:24.969 --> 00:52:27.289
helps us all get sharper. My post yesterday sparked

00:52:27.289 --> 00:52:29.690
a great discussion. I'm glad it did. I added

00:52:29.690 --> 00:52:32.269
clarification after realizing I was wrong. About

00:52:32.269 --> 00:52:34.889
the odds part, that's on me. Most agree. There's

00:52:34.889 --> 00:52:36.769
a gamble in opening wax, whether it's at your

00:52:36.769 --> 00:52:39.690
LCS or through a live casino in your pocket break.

00:52:39.869 --> 00:52:41.550
The differences are in accessibility friction

00:52:41.550 --> 00:52:44.610
and, in many cases, high -pressure sales. and

00:52:44.610 --> 00:52:48.550
inducement now i again i think that all makes

00:52:48.550 --> 00:52:51.070
sense and Alyx and i had a good conversation

00:52:51.070 --> 00:52:57.449
about this the other day so uh and now excuse

00:52:57.449 --> 00:52:59.510
me Alyx i think we were on the same page is there

00:52:59.510 --> 00:53:01.550
anything that you want to add to any of that

00:53:01.550 --> 00:53:06.469
or comment on i mean it's obviously very subjective

00:53:06.469 --> 00:53:09.329
and there are layers to it and i like the way

00:53:09.329 --> 00:53:13.920
you phrased um Repeat what you said again regarding,

00:53:14.139 --> 00:53:17.679
you know, just the layer of friction. Yeah, I

00:53:17.679 --> 00:53:21.219
said right here, the differences are in accessibility.

00:53:21.719 --> 00:53:23.920
We've already talked about these types of friction.

00:53:24.079 --> 00:53:26.960
And in many cases, and not all cases, but the

00:53:26.960 --> 00:53:30.460
high pressure sales and the inducement to spend

00:53:30.460 --> 00:53:33.980
either your first penny or your last penny. Yeah,

00:53:34.039 --> 00:53:37.139
that is so well worded. So, you know, is ripping

00:53:37.139 --> 00:53:41.829
at an LCS still gambling? Yes. I mean, for all

00:53:41.829 --> 00:53:44.510
intents and purposes, yes. If you're paying a

00:53:44.510 --> 00:53:47.070
premium for a seal product where the outcome

00:53:47.070 --> 00:53:51.489
is unknown and the goal is to profit or hit big,

00:53:51.690 --> 00:53:55.250
however you want to word it, it's functionally

00:53:55.250 --> 00:53:58.030
gambling. That's just the basic definition of

00:53:58.030 --> 00:54:00.570
gambling, risking money on an uncertain outcome

00:54:00.570 --> 00:54:04.010
in hopes of a reward. So the fact that it's cardboard

00:54:04.010 --> 00:54:06.849
instead of cash doesn't change the psychology

00:54:06.849 --> 00:54:10.349
behind it. Just because, you know, you're you.

00:54:11.159 --> 00:54:13.579
made the concerted effort to drive to your local

00:54:13.579 --> 00:54:17.760
card shop and and purchase a pack of cards in

00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:20.780
person and and do it responsibly as opposed to

00:54:20.780 --> 00:54:23.739
you know passively on your phone at two in the

00:54:23.739 --> 00:54:28.980
morning it's all sort of still the same like

00:54:28.980 --> 00:54:31.480
experience at the end of the day so you know

00:54:31.480 --> 00:54:34.889
again ripping in person at your local car shop

00:54:34.889 --> 00:54:37.690
might feel more nostalgic or grounded compared

00:54:37.690 --> 00:54:40.190
to high stakes breaks on on a live streaming

00:54:40.190 --> 00:54:42.909
platform but the behavior is essentially the

00:54:42.909 --> 00:54:44.710
same you're chasing a result you're spending

00:54:44.710 --> 00:54:47.670
with hope and often you're risking more than

00:54:47.670 --> 00:54:51.730
you realize um the difference is visibility and

00:54:51.730 --> 00:54:54.730
frequency so live breaks add public pressure

00:54:55.260 --> 00:54:58.019
the social validation component, the rapid fire

00:54:58.019 --> 00:55:01.440
repetition. And even if you're just, you know,

00:55:01.440 --> 00:55:04.719
sitting quietly in an LCS parking lot or, you

00:55:04.719 --> 00:55:07.800
know, at home ripping a box or ripping box after

00:55:07.800 --> 00:55:09.500
box, because you just, you know, sort of have

00:55:09.500 --> 00:55:13.179
a feeling that that big hit is coming up. You're

00:55:13.179 --> 00:55:16.400
still in that same emotional loop. So it's not

00:55:16.400 --> 00:55:19.139
about sort of where you rip like the environment

00:55:19.139 --> 00:55:22.159
or the setting. It's why you're ripping, you

00:55:22.159 --> 00:55:24.579
know, asking yourself why joy versus compulsion.

00:55:25.070 --> 00:55:27.849
how often you're doing it whether it's like occasionally

00:55:27.849 --> 00:55:30.730
or obsessively and what you're risking right

00:55:30.730 --> 00:55:32.989
whether that's your money it's and it's not always

00:55:32.989 --> 00:55:35.289
about just your finances it's about your mental

00:55:35.289 --> 00:55:38.170
health your relationships so if you're not thinking

00:55:38.170 --> 00:55:41.289
about the outcome the cost or the consequences

00:55:41.289 --> 00:55:45.170
then chances are it's sort of crossed over into

00:55:45.170 --> 00:55:47.550
this gambling territory and the sooner we start

00:55:47.550 --> 00:55:50.030
to recognize these patterns the sooner we can

00:55:50.030 --> 00:55:52.889
bring mindfulness back into the hobby because

00:55:52.889 --> 00:55:54.869
at the end of the day collecting should be fun

00:55:54.869 --> 00:55:57.469
but we just you know we don't want to confuse

00:55:57.469 --> 00:56:03.449
fun with free reign right yeah you know makes

00:56:03.449 --> 00:56:05.929
me think of another story and i shared this one

00:56:05.929 --> 00:56:07.690
with you Alyx the other day i'll share it with

00:56:07.690 --> 00:56:11.090
the audience here uh this goes back to probably

00:56:11.090 --> 00:56:17.530
2007 in that in that era um a a friend of mine

00:56:17.530 --> 00:56:19.590
who's not in the hobby worked at a company and

00:56:19.590 --> 00:56:22.570
he had a guy in his company who was a card collector.

00:56:22.909 --> 00:56:26.429
And he said, oh, you collect cards? My buddy

00:56:26.429 --> 00:56:28.750
Jeremy, he collects cards too. I should introduce

00:56:28.750 --> 00:56:31.849
you. So he did. So I met this guy local. And

00:56:31.849 --> 00:56:34.429
I'd see him at the card shop after here and there,

00:56:34.449 --> 00:56:36.929
the trade nights and that sort of thing in 2007,

00:56:36.969 --> 00:56:42.289
8, 9. I get a phone call from him one day. And

00:56:42.289 --> 00:56:46.670
he says, I need you to come over and buy everything

00:56:46.670 --> 00:56:50.190
I have. i said what what's i said oh okay like

00:56:50.190 --> 00:56:51.550
you know i was just starting to get into the

00:56:51.550 --> 00:56:53.889
card show game setting up as a vendor i thought

00:56:53.889 --> 00:56:56.929
oh great i'm gonna get some new inventory sort

00:56:56.929 --> 00:57:01.929
of thing so i went over to his house and uh we

00:57:01.929 --> 00:57:04.130
start chatting and he starts telling me a story

00:57:04.130 --> 00:57:09.829
about how he's been buying wax at the lcs uh

00:57:09.829 --> 00:57:12.110
to the point where he you know on his way home

00:57:12.110 --> 00:57:14.150
from work he'd stop he'd spend thirteen hundred

00:57:14.150 --> 00:57:18.039
dollars His wife would ask him, what's this charge

00:57:18.039 --> 00:57:20.340
on the credit card? And he would say, oh, I had

00:57:20.340 --> 00:57:22.679
to get new tires put on the car sort of thing.

00:57:22.820 --> 00:57:24.559
I don't know how, you know, that's what he would

00:57:24.559 --> 00:57:27.579
tell her. And this happened to the point, it

00:57:27.579 --> 00:57:29.380
happened to him to the point where it was happening

00:57:29.380 --> 00:57:31.619
so much, he was running out of excuses where

00:57:31.619 --> 00:57:35.360
the family money was going. He finally came clean

00:57:35.360 --> 00:57:39.079
to his wife. And they agreed that in order to

00:57:39.079 --> 00:57:41.699
save their marriage, he had to sell everything.

00:57:41.860 --> 00:57:44.179
So he called me up, went over to his house again.

00:57:44.670 --> 00:57:47.090
He filled me in what was going on, looked at

00:57:47.090 --> 00:57:49.489
the stuff. We made a deal. He helped me load

00:57:49.489 --> 00:57:52.449
it into his car. Not just the cards, but like,

00:57:52.469 --> 00:57:56.650
you know, blaster tint, like tins of like upper

00:57:56.650 --> 00:57:58.789
deck hockey, the empty tins that had supplies

00:57:58.789 --> 00:58:02.090
in them. Everything that was hobby related had

00:58:02.090 --> 00:58:05.710
to go. He had an uncut sheet of the cup had to

00:58:05.710 --> 00:58:08.750
go. I had it on my wall for many, many years.

00:58:08.889 --> 00:58:11.429
I just sold that a couple of years ago, actually.

00:58:12.309 --> 00:58:15.849
The guy had to. literally leave the hobby altogether

00:58:15.849 --> 00:58:20.230
to save his marriage and that was my that was

00:58:20.230 --> 00:58:24.329
when I first had that was when I first realized

00:58:24.329 --> 00:58:26.510
that like yeah I've gone to the LCS and dropped

00:58:26.510 --> 00:58:29.289
four grand and drove home in shame like I would

00:58:29.289 --> 00:58:32.110
feel if I lost money at a blackjack table but

00:58:32.110 --> 00:58:34.230
this is the first time I saw somebody who was

00:58:34.230 --> 00:58:37.329
lying to his wife about it for months and months

00:58:37.329 --> 00:58:40.570
spent like I'm going to guess this is me guessing.

00:58:40.590 --> 00:58:42.210
I remember like call it a hundred grand. And

00:58:42.210 --> 00:58:43.570
back then that was a lot more money than it is

00:58:43.570 --> 00:58:47.750
now. And he had to, he had to sell to save his

00:58:47.750 --> 00:58:51.570
freaking marriage. So I just mentioned this because

00:58:51.570 --> 00:58:58.769
it's another example of what people are facing

00:58:58.769 --> 00:59:00.510
in this hobby. They're not talking about it.

00:59:00.530 --> 00:59:04.550
Now Alyx is providing a community and a service

00:59:04.550 --> 00:59:07.809
and a support group for people who might be able

00:59:07.809 --> 00:59:10.960
to, you know, If this guy's lucky, he saved his

00:59:10.960 --> 00:59:15.559
marriage. I felt a bit like I was providing a

00:59:15.559 --> 00:59:20.840
wonderful service. I almost felt like a counselor

00:59:20.840 --> 00:59:24.519
in a way that I came in and helped him save his

00:59:24.519 --> 00:59:26.179
marriage because he didn't know where else to

00:59:26.179 --> 00:59:27.980
go. I'm sure he could have taken it somewhere.

00:59:28.159 --> 00:59:30.559
But anyway, I felt really good that I was able

00:59:30.559 --> 00:59:35.239
to help him out. i tell that story it's also

00:59:35.239 --> 00:59:37.420
to emphasize this is before the days of Whatnot

00:59:37.420 --> 00:59:40.219
or any of these casino in your pocket kind of

00:59:40.219 --> 00:59:43.380
platforms this was just from Alyx this has nothing

00:59:43.380 --> 00:59:45.860
had nothing to do with ease of access on his

00:59:45.860 --> 00:59:48.179
way home from work every day he would just stop

00:59:48.179 --> 00:59:52.239
and drop you know whatever 300 1200 1500 until

00:59:52.239 --> 00:59:55.800
again he had to stop to save the marriage okay

00:59:55.800 --> 00:59:59.179
i want to mention that and then the other thing

00:59:59.179 --> 01:00:01.420
i wanted to mention and then we're gonna then

01:00:01.420 --> 01:00:06.619
we're gonna uh go back to you, Alyx, was, and

01:00:06.619 --> 01:00:08.599
it's in the comments here. So let's just do this

01:00:08.599 --> 01:00:09.980
first. We're going to read a few comments and

01:00:09.980 --> 01:00:11.519
I'm going to stumble into where I'm going. And

01:00:11.519 --> 01:00:12.599
then we're going to go back to you, Alyx. So

01:00:12.599 --> 01:00:14.760
Yelio Williams says, pulling a nice card out

01:00:14.760 --> 01:00:17.739
of a pack is an essential hobby experience, in

01:00:17.739 --> 01:00:20.320
my opinion. I don't know about that. I think,

01:00:20.360 --> 01:00:22.159
I don't know if it's essential myself, although

01:00:22.159 --> 01:00:25.000
I've done it. So I shouldn't say it isn't, but

01:00:25.000 --> 01:00:26.400
I don't know that it's essential. I think there

01:00:26.400 --> 01:00:29.000
are other ways to hobby, but I get it. Let's

01:00:29.000 --> 01:00:31.219
go. Jordan says, IPC, Babe Ruth and Michael Jordan.

01:00:31.300 --> 01:00:33.460
Do these count? as maybe he means as gambling.

01:00:33.539 --> 01:00:35.360
I don't think so. I think those are pretty darn

01:00:35.360 --> 01:00:40.659
safe. Mark Santucci says, I had Chad Blesnik

01:00:40.659 --> 01:00:43.699
on the show a while ago. He's a full -time gambler,

01:00:43.739 --> 01:00:48.480
but I don't know if he's a breaker himself. I

01:00:48.480 --> 01:00:50.019
know Bles is a breaker. I don't know if he is

01:00:50.019 --> 01:00:52.480
or not. Midlife says, I agree, Jeremy. Have Ziggy

01:00:52.480 --> 01:00:56.000
on. I want to hear both sides of this. Brett

01:00:56.000 --> 01:00:58.599
Miles says, breaking can be fun, 100%. Breaking

01:00:58.599 --> 01:01:00.760
to the point where you're in massive debt, not

01:01:00.760 --> 01:01:03.559
so much. a lot of conversation joe about what

01:01:03.559 --> 01:01:06.480
you were snacking on Jeremy says what is joe

01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:08.679
snacking on to which brett says the chat is so

01:01:08.679 --> 01:01:11.900
spicy spicy that joe got the popcorn out and

01:01:11.900 --> 01:01:15.019
midlife says looks like popcorn ziggy no says

01:01:15.019 --> 01:01:18.099
breaking needs a makeover too many negative images

01:01:18.099 --> 01:01:19.900
and this is the this is the comment i was waiting

01:01:19.900 --> 01:01:22.539
for i think this is a really insightful comment

01:01:22.539 --> 01:01:26.900
from ziggy and this is where i wanted to say

01:01:26.900 --> 01:01:32.159
that you know should break the makeover might

01:01:32.159 --> 01:01:37.699
be towards um responsible and integral breakers

01:01:37.699 --> 01:01:41.420
breakers who are showing integrity who are cutting

01:01:41.420 --> 01:01:44.900
people off who are maybe issuing warnings and

01:01:44.900 --> 01:01:47.900
that sort of thing if they're willing to uh should

01:01:47.900 --> 01:01:51.699
breakers like that be celebrated should they

01:01:51.699 --> 01:01:55.480
be propped up as leaders in the space instead

01:01:55.480 --> 01:01:58.860
of the ones who are doing the most revenue but

01:01:58.860 --> 01:02:04.190
are also doing the most damage and high -pressure

01:02:04.190 --> 01:02:07.409
sales and inducement and trying to get that last

01:02:07.409 --> 01:02:10.949
penny out of the addict in their breakers' rooms.

01:02:11.090 --> 01:02:12.690
I want to put that all over to you now, Alyx,

01:02:12.789 --> 01:02:15.849
please. Yeah, I mean, I think there are different

01:02:15.849 --> 01:02:21.010
types of breakers. There are different ways that

01:02:21.010 --> 01:02:23.690
these breakers go about engaging their audience.

01:02:24.449 --> 01:02:26.570
Ziggy also mentioned something else that I want

01:02:26.570 --> 01:02:31.659
to touch on. that comment was not uh all breaks

01:02:31.659 --> 01:02:34.519
Alyx refer Alyx refers to all breaks as gambling

01:02:34.519 --> 01:02:37.000
it's a method of purchasing too if there is no

01:02:37.000 --> 01:02:39.780
profit is it a gamble if it's free is it a gamble

01:02:39.780 --> 01:02:43.559
yes you can break at lower prices you can share

01:02:43.559 --> 01:02:45.539
risk but we watch one bad breaker overcharge

01:02:45.539 --> 01:02:48.809
and all breakers are not the same so you know

01:02:48.809 --> 01:02:50.389
i think that encompasses everything we're talking

01:02:50.389 --> 01:02:52.969
about here i totally get where ziggy is coming

01:02:52.969 --> 01:02:55.789
from and i appreciate him pulling over uh to

01:02:55.789 --> 01:02:58.090
send that message thoughtfully i know he was

01:02:58.090 --> 01:03:00.670
uh he was driving and then he stopped to uh to

01:03:00.670 --> 01:03:03.550
uh chime in so i i think ziggy is right in that

01:03:03.550 --> 01:03:06.530
not all breakers are are created equally and

01:03:06.530 --> 01:03:09.570
there are definitely formats that share risk

01:03:09.570 --> 01:03:12.449
more fairly or offered at more reasonable prices

01:03:12.449 --> 01:03:17.329
and i'm not here to paint every breaker as a

01:03:17.329 --> 01:03:20.760
bad actor um or you know somebody with with malicious

01:03:20.760 --> 01:03:23.900
intent there are honest community driven breakers

01:03:23.900 --> 01:03:25.940
out there that are doing it the right way there's

01:03:25.940 --> 01:03:28.239
no doubt about that but here's the distinction

01:03:28.239 --> 01:03:31.280
i'm trying to highlight right when the format

01:03:31.280 --> 01:03:34.940
mimics gambling behavior uncertain outcome monetary

01:03:34.940 --> 01:03:38.159
risk and a prize -based reward system it starts

01:03:38.159 --> 01:03:40.300
to mirror the mechanics of gambling even if the

01:03:40.300 --> 01:03:43.559
intention isn't malicious so even free breaks

01:03:43.559 --> 01:03:46.159
while obviously not financially risky they can

01:03:46.159 --> 01:03:49.039
still reinforce this sort of same dopamine loop

01:03:49.039 --> 01:03:51.760
and addictive behavior especially in younger

01:03:51.760 --> 01:03:54.019
participants who are being conditioned to crave

01:03:54.019 --> 01:03:57.039
that hit it can almost serve as a gateway honestly

01:03:57.039 --> 01:04:00.260
that's how like gambling platforms suck in a

01:04:00.260 --> 01:04:02.179
lot of their customers they send them a free

01:04:02.179 --> 01:04:04.710
bet Or they send them a deposit match. And it's

01:04:04.710 --> 01:04:06.389
like, oh, it's free. You know, it can't hurt.

01:04:06.510 --> 01:04:08.829
I'm just going to do it once. And then they watch

01:04:08.829 --> 01:04:11.510
the game and it's super close and it comes down

01:04:11.510 --> 01:04:15.349
to the wire. And they lose on a bad play or a

01:04:15.349 --> 01:04:17.269
missed shot or whatever the case may be. Next

01:04:17.269 --> 01:04:19.550
thing you know, you know, you feel like you just

01:04:19.550 --> 01:04:23.230
got, you know, screwed out of a couple hundred

01:04:23.230 --> 01:04:26.050
bucks. Right. So you take your own money and

01:04:26.050 --> 01:04:29.400
you. you double down. And that's exactly how

01:04:29.400 --> 01:04:31.900
you get sucked in. That's also how compulsive

01:04:31.900 --> 01:04:35.380
gamblers who are trying to sort of take a break

01:04:35.380 --> 01:04:38.940
or self -exclude or cool off, again, get sucked

01:04:38.940 --> 01:04:41.500
back in. They're like, ah, this time is different.

01:04:41.619 --> 01:04:44.980
I'm just going to use this deposit match once

01:04:44.980 --> 01:04:48.300
or use this free bet, and then I'll take a step

01:04:48.300 --> 01:04:51.719
back. No, that's not how all of this is designed.

01:04:52.159 --> 01:04:55.380
It's like it's literally set up as a trap to

01:04:55.380 --> 01:04:58.659
suck you in and spit you out. So sort of to tie

01:04:58.659 --> 01:05:01.159
it all together and to Ziggy's point, you know,

01:05:01.159 --> 01:05:04.239
profit isn't the only factor. It's not always

01:05:04.239 --> 01:05:07.440
about whether the value of what you got matches

01:05:07.440 --> 01:05:10.239
or exceeds what you paid. It's about how frequently

01:05:10.239 --> 01:05:12.539
you're engaging, what you're feeling when you're

01:05:12.539 --> 01:05:14.800
watching or buying in, and whether it's starting

01:05:14.800 --> 01:05:17.960
to impact your mindset or your behavior outside

01:05:17.960 --> 01:05:21.570
of the hobby. So I'm all for fair prices, shared

01:05:21.570 --> 01:05:23.469
risk and community first approach. But I think

01:05:23.469 --> 01:05:26.550
we just we need to shine a light on the structures

01:05:26.550 --> 01:05:29.030
that take advantage of people, especially when

01:05:29.030 --> 01:05:31.250
high pressure and lack of transparency are involved.

01:05:31.449 --> 01:05:34.489
Right. So, again, it's not about anti hobby,

01:05:34.610 --> 01:05:38.030
anti breaker, anti breaking. It's just about

01:05:38.030 --> 01:05:41.849
pro awareness and pro education. You know, educating

01:05:41.849 --> 01:05:44.969
these young consumers, these young customers

01:05:44.969 --> 01:05:46.909
who just frankly have no idea what they're getting

01:05:46.909 --> 01:05:52.550
themselves into. Yeah, yeah. Joe, thanks, Alyx.

01:05:52.690 --> 01:05:55.989
Joe, do you have any thoughts on this last little

01:05:55.989 --> 01:05:58.210
segment here? And then we'll go to some comments

01:05:58.210 --> 01:06:02.389
again. I really appreciated Alyx's breaking it

01:06:02.389 --> 01:06:05.070
down there. I hadn't thought about that, I guess,

01:06:05.090 --> 01:06:08.230
because I'm a little bit removed. I do think

01:06:08.230 --> 01:06:12.269
of ROI, but what you're getting at, Alyx, is

01:06:12.269 --> 01:06:15.250
just the whole behavior that's geared to kind

01:06:15.250 --> 01:06:18.090
of stimulate the limbic system in the ways that

01:06:18.090 --> 01:06:23.300
it does. And, you know, why should someone like

01:06:23.300 --> 01:06:27.539
I, you know, care about this? It's because I

01:06:27.539 --> 01:06:31.619
care about the hobby and I care about people,

01:06:31.760 --> 01:06:33.840
right? Getting back to that fundamental. But

01:06:33.840 --> 01:06:36.679
I know, you know, I'm not naive enough to think

01:06:36.679 --> 01:06:39.099
there's not a lot of other ways that, you know,

01:06:39.099 --> 01:06:41.719
people can ruin their lives out there or go down

01:06:41.719 --> 01:06:46.010
a dark hole that impacts their life. You know,

01:06:46.010 --> 01:06:50.489
all sorts of ways to tumble down. But in this

01:06:50.489 --> 01:06:53.989
space, which is, you know, a space I care about,

01:06:54.110 --> 01:06:58.469
it is unfortunate when you see people's experience

01:06:58.469 --> 01:07:03.710
kind of become something that not only doesn't

01:07:03.710 --> 01:07:05.809
keep them in the hobby, but impacts their life

01:07:05.809 --> 01:07:09.769
in a potentially negative way. And I guess what

01:07:09.769 --> 01:07:11.730
I'm taking away from this conversation, too,

01:07:11.829 --> 01:07:15.659
is just all things. the right proportion. I mean,

01:07:15.679 --> 01:07:19.300
I definitely have some compulsive behaviors in

01:07:19.300 --> 01:07:24.179
relation to how I hobby. And at various moments,

01:07:24.260 --> 01:07:27.219
I've been concerned about my own relationship

01:07:27.219 --> 01:07:31.659
to, you know, acquiring cardboard. And I think

01:07:31.659 --> 01:07:35.659
for that reason, I do have a lot of empathy for

01:07:35.659 --> 01:07:39.099
people that are, you know, putting their lives

01:07:39.099 --> 01:07:41.900
at risk, for lack of a better word. And it's

01:07:41.900 --> 01:07:46.440
also kind of, mirroring in my mind a little bit

01:07:46.440 --> 01:07:50.179
of the uptick in sports gambling. I mean, you're

01:07:50.179 --> 01:07:55.099
seeing legalized gambling emerge in all sorts

01:07:55.099 --> 01:07:58.880
of states now. It's probably never been easier

01:07:58.880 --> 01:08:04.539
to bet on sports. And you see it advertised in

01:08:04.539 --> 01:08:08.579
actual sporting events, which I find kind of

01:08:08.579 --> 01:08:11.980
amazing because you can't help but question.

01:08:12.650 --> 01:08:17.109
Is Scott Foster being put into the referee crew

01:08:17.109 --> 01:08:20.689
to extend the series? Scott Foster is a referee

01:08:20.689 --> 01:08:24.649
in the NBA, and there was a big commotion online

01:08:24.649 --> 01:08:29.289
about whether or not his refereeing of a critical

01:08:29.289 --> 01:08:34.329
game in the NBA Finals was tantamount to Adam

01:08:34.329 --> 01:08:38.649
Silver deciding or at least wanting the series

01:08:38.649 --> 01:08:41.920
to go. more than five or six games or a particular

01:08:41.920 --> 01:08:45.720
team to win so i yeah i think uh we've got a

01:08:45.720 --> 01:08:50.560
a large problem in the whole sports world and

01:08:50.560 --> 01:08:55.000
in the card world um i i do agree with what greg

01:08:55.000 --> 01:08:59.020
said in the chat earlier you know uh children

01:08:59.020 --> 01:09:01.600
whose brains have not fully developed have even

01:09:01.600 --> 01:09:03.199
less of a chance now i don't know if they're

01:09:03.199 --> 01:09:05.520
actually breaking or not i don't know how much

01:09:05.520 --> 01:09:07.680
that's actually happening but you do see kids

01:09:08.350 --> 01:09:11.130
in the showroom floors, going around, hunting

01:09:11.130 --> 01:09:14.369
for their kabooms, transacting in a way where

01:09:14.369 --> 01:09:17.189
they don't seem to really appreciate the cards

01:09:17.189 --> 01:09:20.850
themselves. And that's sad to me. As a hobbyist,

01:09:20.869 --> 01:09:25.609
a lifelong hobbyist, I really would love to shift

01:09:25.609 --> 01:09:30.810
the conversation out of these economic flipping

01:09:30.810 --> 01:09:33.909
kind of situations and a little bit more into

01:09:33.909 --> 01:09:38.439
the appreciation of the cards. Yeah, well said,

01:09:38.560 --> 01:09:42.319
Joe. And like O says, Joe is hitting it right

01:09:42.319 --> 01:09:44.699
on the head. Yeah, lots of great comments there,

01:09:44.779 --> 01:09:48.180
especially the parallel with sports gambling

01:09:48.180 --> 01:09:51.380
itself. We're going to go to some comments now,

01:09:51.520 --> 01:09:53.840
guys. And a lot of this will follow up on what

01:09:53.840 --> 01:09:55.800
we've been talking about. Triple V says, this

01:09:55.800 --> 01:09:58.220
topic would make a great hobby documentary. Interview

01:09:58.220 --> 01:10:00.859
those affected as well as the companies behind

01:10:00.859 --> 01:10:03.000
these breaks, which includes the manufacturers,

01:10:03.260 --> 01:10:05.779
then overlay percentages, odds, et cetera, in

01:10:05.779 --> 01:10:10.350
order. to drive home the point uh Chris C. says

01:10:10.350 --> 01:10:15.649
what not is the casino so is your local LCS except

01:10:15.649 --> 01:10:19.289
that the lcs has a lot of non -casino like you

01:10:19.289 --> 01:10:22.029
can go into an actual casino in vegas and you've

01:10:22.029 --> 01:10:24.090
got gift shops and you've got restaurants and

01:10:24.090 --> 01:10:26.949
you can get massages that's the non -gambling

01:10:26.949 --> 01:10:30.829
part uh an lcs has i think non -gambling aspects

01:10:30.829 --> 01:10:33.850
as well other services and that but certainly

01:10:33.850 --> 01:10:37.949
can act as a casino. Fun Bobby says, I lost 40K

01:10:37.949 --> 01:10:40.409
to breaking in the blink of an eye. It just adds

01:10:40.409 --> 01:10:43.550
up really fast. It's always on to the next break.

01:10:44.170 --> 01:10:46.770
Texas Ranger says, I think he's talking about

01:10:46.770 --> 01:10:50.109
my post as it triggered others too. Texas Rangers,

01:10:50.250 --> 01:10:52.029
I think that's what that was about. I'm sorry,

01:10:52.189 --> 01:10:54.569
not enough context there. Fun Bobby said, breaking

01:10:54.569 --> 01:10:57.649
is not entertainment if it affects people financially.

01:10:58.730 --> 01:11:00.829
Hobby Champ said, if you're going to become addicted

01:11:00.829 --> 01:11:02.789
to the hobby, become addicted to buying high

01:11:02.789 --> 01:11:04.909
-grade rookie cards of all -time greats from

01:11:04.909 --> 01:11:09.149
the 1910s to the 50s. 99 .9 % of ultra -modern

01:11:09.149 --> 01:11:12.529
will collapse in value. I agree with everything

01:11:12.529 --> 01:11:15.090
there, Hobby Champs, except the high -grade part.

01:11:15.590 --> 01:11:18.510
Low -grade, high -I appeal, I would add to that.

01:11:18.689 --> 01:11:21.050
Ziggy No says, I have reached out to other breakers,

01:11:21.069 --> 01:11:23.229
and I've reached out to Whatnot and Fanatics

01:11:23.229 --> 01:11:26.380
too. We all want the same, a better hobby. We

01:11:26.380 --> 01:11:28.699
need to stop attacking each other. I know, ironic

01:11:28.699 --> 01:11:33.539
coming from me. Ziggy, to me, it shows some growth

01:11:33.539 --> 01:11:36.220
as well, which I think is great. But thank you

01:11:36.220 --> 01:11:38.039
for the comment. Fowlball says, I'm addicted

01:11:38.039 --> 01:11:42.380
to sports cards live. I'll take it. 1956 Tops

01:11:42.380 --> 01:11:44.239
Guy. What's up, Matthew? Says, hey, oh, glad

01:11:44.239 --> 01:11:46.060
to be able to join the live. Glad to have you.

01:11:46.340 --> 01:11:48.699
Ziggy says, we need more positive transparency

01:11:48.699 --> 01:11:52.760
to help grow and make breaking better. Odds should

01:11:52.760 --> 01:11:54.680
be easier to find. Pricing should be transparent.

01:11:54.840 --> 01:11:56.539
And this ties into. what I was saying earlier,

01:11:56.899 --> 01:12:01.159
where breakers who are doing that maybe need

01:12:01.159 --> 01:12:04.079
to be celebrated. Not celebrated, but maybe propped

01:12:04.079 --> 01:12:07.239
up or at least leading the way, setting the example.

01:12:07.420 --> 01:12:10.300
Maybe that's a better way of saying it. Mid Atlantic

01:12:10.300 --> 01:12:12.760
says, I don't think it's right to blame the breakers

01:12:12.760 --> 01:12:15.000
when it all starts with the card manufacturer

01:12:15.000 --> 01:12:18.159
producing a product that can't possibly be consumed

01:12:18.159 --> 01:12:21.060
at a price point that can't be consumed any other

01:12:21.060 --> 01:12:25.800
way. Now, listen, okay, Joe is applauding. But

01:12:25.800 --> 01:12:28.300
I think there's another layer to that, guys.

01:12:28.460 --> 01:12:31.920
The manufacturers started doing this because

01:12:31.920 --> 01:12:35.579
of breakers. Breakers came in before manufacturers

01:12:35.579 --> 01:12:40.340
knew what breaking was. Breakers invented breaking.

01:12:40.680 --> 01:12:44.340
And it was manufacturers who caught on and started

01:12:44.340 --> 01:12:47.560
customizing products for breakers. And that's

01:12:47.560 --> 01:12:51.500
when the costs all started to go up. Dan's Vintage

01:12:51.500 --> 01:12:54.680
said the reason the boxes are overpriced is because...

01:12:55.579 --> 01:13:00.140
of Fanatics exploit is exploiting breaking well

01:13:00.140 --> 01:13:04.539
again it's deeper than that though really Fanatics

01:13:04.539 --> 01:13:08.779
bought tops because breaking was there breaking

01:13:08.779 --> 01:13:12.340
came before Fanatics guys they came because they

01:13:12.340 --> 01:13:15.420
saw what Fanatics was a what what tops was able

01:13:15.420 --> 01:13:19.699
to do and panini and upper deck for that matter

01:13:19.699 --> 01:13:23.079
right and leaf with the leaf and brian gray kind

01:13:23.079 --> 01:13:28.289
of invented the repack like Breakers came before

01:13:28.289 --> 01:13:31.750
the manufacturers realized what they were doing.

01:13:32.149 --> 01:13:37.430
If you witnessed the history, breakers came,

01:13:37.569 --> 01:13:41.210
the manufacturers customized around them. Just

01:13:41.210 --> 01:13:43.550
wanted to point that out. Dan says, thank you,

01:13:43.550 --> 01:13:45.250
Alyx, for your thoughtful approach and incredible

01:13:45.250 --> 01:13:49.949
knowledge of this problem. 100%, Dan. Curmudgeon

01:13:49.949 --> 01:13:52.689
in the house. What's going on, Curmudgeon? Fun

01:13:52.689 --> 01:13:54.789
Bobby said the hobby doesn't need breakers. The

01:13:54.789 --> 01:13:57.069
hobby needs lower wax prices. And to that, I

01:13:57.069 --> 01:14:01.670
say, I mean, either we're too late or the hobby

01:14:01.670 --> 01:14:06.069
has to go through another complete cycle or everybody

01:14:06.069 --> 01:14:08.569
has to stop buying for that to happen. Otherwise,

01:14:08.670 --> 01:14:11.810
it's like it's too late, unfortunately, or whatever.

01:14:12.130 --> 01:14:14.409
It's just too late. I think Ziggy knows that

01:14:14.409 --> 01:14:16.289
breaking has grown the hobby more in the past

01:14:16.289 --> 01:14:19.470
five years than collecting sets has. Sorry. I

01:14:19.470 --> 01:14:21.649
think he's completely right. The question is.

01:14:22.079 --> 01:14:25.039
uh what cardboard and plastic says is it growing

01:14:25.039 --> 01:14:28.439
the hobby in a good way though just because things

01:14:28.439 --> 01:14:30.500
are worth more doesn't mean that that growth

01:14:30.500 --> 01:14:33.220
is positive so i think that's a fair back and

01:14:33.220 --> 01:14:36.680
forth and i i i think ziggy is right but i think

01:14:36.680 --> 01:14:39.159
cardboard and plastic has a great kind of rebuttal

01:14:39.159 --> 01:14:42.560
to that foul ball says roi should not be in a

01:14:42.560 --> 01:14:46.939
hobby now to which i say then shut down eBay

01:14:46.939 --> 01:14:50.399
shut down all the auction companies shut it down

01:14:50.779 --> 01:14:54.260
This hobby doesn't exist without a potential

01:14:54.260 --> 01:14:57.060
of ROI for people. Unfortunately, not this hobby.

01:14:57.159 --> 01:14:59.460
Maybe another hobby does, but this one just doesn't

01:14:59.460 --> 01:15:01.579
at this point. Chris C. says, the main thing

01:15:01.579 --> 01:15:06.819
breaking has done is made breakers rich. I can't

01:15:06.819 --> 01:15:08.800
really speak to that too well. I'm not a breaker,

01:15:08.939 --> 01:15:11.619
but I've heard that that is the case. Mid Atlantic

01:15:11.619 --> 01:15:14.439
says, bravo, Joe. There is a direct parallel

01:15:14.439 --> 01:15:18.680
with sports betting. yes and dan says the modern

01:15:18.680 --> 01:15:22.000
hobby turning base cards into literal trash is

01:15:22.000 --> 01:15:25.180
one of the worst sins of the hobby and i mean

01:15:25.180 --> 01:15:28.279
it's funny because not so funny but i think dan

01:15:28.279 --> 01:15:33.039
is right and i remember again before breaking

01:15:33.039 --> 01:15:36.319
was really big guys i remember going to the lcs

01:15:36.319 --> 01:15:39.239
for trade night or other or whatever day seeing

01:15:39.239 --> 01:15:42.060
people opening up boxes looking for the hits

01:15:42.060 --> 01:15:44.159
and leaving the base on the counter behind and

01:15:44.159 --> 01:15:48.449
going home literal trash to the point where a

01:15:48.449 --> 01:15:51.350
lot of products have changed from being straight

01:15:51.350 --> 01:15:54.069
hit products like upper deck the cup you're getting

01:15:54.069 --> 01:15:56.510
six cars every card is numbered there's no real

01:15:56.510 --> 01:16:00.029
base the base is limited to 249. you know there

01:16:00.029 --> 01:16:02.949
are there are literal products that are only

01:16:02.949 --> 01:16:08.409
hits now so okay lots there go ahead joe well

01:16:08.409 --> 01:16:10.770
i just want to give the counterpoint to the breakers

01:16:11.239 --> 01:16:14.380
created i i it's it's sort of like the hand feeding

01:16:14.380 --> 01:16:18.199
the hand feeding the hand right i mean yes that's

01:16:18.199 --> 01:16:21.979
a good counterpoint jaylee like when the card

01:16:21.979 --> 01:16:25.239
manufacturers saw that they were sort of missing

01:16:25.239 --> 01:16:31.699
part of the opportunity to cash in they started

01:16:31.699 --> 01:16:35.640
to up the prices and the dance commenced but

01:16:35.640 --> 01:16:40.859
i i do think like i want the card manufacturers

01:16:40.859 --> 01:16:44.699
to have more integrity than at least some of

01:16:44.699 --> 01:16:47.539
the breakers i i don't want to lump all breakers

01:16:47.539 --> 01:16:50.220
together because i i do think there are more

01:16:50.220 --> 01:16:53.119
upstanding and less upstanding versions but i

01:16:53.119 --> 01:16:55.760
you know the the manufacturers don't have to

01:16:55.760 --> 01:16:58.520
cave do they do they really have to cave i mean

01:16:58.520 --> 01:17:01.260
there because there is some degree of relationship

01:17:01.260 --> 01:17:06.260
between what the what the retail price is and

01:17:06.260 --> 01:17:09.939
what the breakers do or else At some point, you

01:17:09.939 --> 01:17:11.720
know, there's going to be people not wanting

01:17:11.720 --> 01:17:13.220
to enter those breaks because they could just

01:17:13.220 --> 01:17:16.800
buy the boxes. So I mean, who do you want to

01:17:16.800 --> 01:17:19.420
be held responsible? Do you want Backyard's breaks

01:17:19.420 --> 01:17:22.100
to be the responsible one or do you want Topps

01:17:22.100 --> 01:17:24.180
to be the responsible one? I'd like to think

01:17:24.180 --> 01:17:27.880
Topps has more long term investment in that.

01:17:27.979 --> 01:17:31.039
And Alyx, I'm sorry, because this is in some

01:17:31.039 --> 01:17:35.659
ways immaterial to your work, which is, again.

01:17:36.090 --> 01:17:38.529
And the addictive nature of it all, it's all

01:17:38.529 --> 01:17:41.390
addictive and it can all ruin lives. We're just

01:17:41.390 --> 01:17:44.750
talking degrees over here. Yeah, no, of course.

01:17:45.409 --> 01:17:48.430
Yeah, Joe, you're 100 % right, or at least I

01:17:48.430 --> 01:17:53.489
should say I agree with you 100%. And some, there's

01:17:53.489 --> 01:17:55.930
a, yeah, here it is. Mid Atlantic says, Jay Lee,

01:17:56.109 --> 01:17:58.189
breakers may have come first, but the manufacturers

01:17:58.189 --> 01:18:01.810
are pouring kerosene on the fire. Of course they

01:18:01.810 --> 01:18:05.279
are. They are profit driven and they are often

01:18:05.279 --> 01:18:08.680
very short sighted. Right. They are looking to

01:18:08.680 --> 01:18:11.760
keep their jobs. They are looking to increase

01:18:11.760 --> 01:18:14.819
their annual bonuses. They are looking to deliver

01:18:14.819 --> 01:18:17.680
shareholder value in the near term to keep stock

01:18:17.680 --> 01:18:20.260
price up or at least shareholder value if it's

01:18:20.260 --> 01:18:24.500
a private company. So, yeah, they they are profit

01:18:24.500 --> 01:18:28.149
driven. Like, you know, Foulball says. You know,

01:18:28.149 --> 01:18:30.609
I don't use eBay or auction houses. And then

01:18:30.609 --> 01:18:33.729
James Wynn says, are you even collecting them?

01:18:33.890 --> 01:18:37.010
Like, you know, the thing is, is that this isn't

01:18:37.010 --> 01:18:43.229
a hobby, guys. Like, it's an industry. And Fowlball

01:18:43.229 --> 01:18:46.069
is very fortunate. He's found his hobby within

01:18:46.069 --> 01:18:48.470
it. He still comes here every Saturday night

01:18:48.470 --> 01:18:51.710
to watch and be a part of the show. And I think

01:18:51.710 --> 01:18:54.289
he's like, you know, frustrated because he doesn't

01:18:54.289 --> 01:18:57.159
like a lot of what he sees. But this is... This

01:18:57.159 --> 01:18:59.500
is a hobby that everyone experiences in their

01:18:59.500 --> 01:19:04.039
own unique way. And it lives within an industry.

01:19:04.520 --> 01:19:07.659
This isn't a hobby overall anymore, guys. It's

01:19:07.659 --> 01:19:10.479
an industry. You have to realize that. That might

01:19:10.479 --> 01:19:12.500
be the first thing to realize that everybody

01:19:12.500 --> 01:19:15.319
wants your money. Everybody, the grading companies,

01:19:15.579 --> 01:19:18.420
the supply companies, the breakers, the LCSs,

01:19:18.460 --> 01:19:22.279
the online casinos, everybody wants your money.

01:19:22.340 --> 01:19:25.359
The auction houses, everybody wants your money.

01:19:25.789 --> 01:19:29.189
It can be a hobby. It's a hobby if you make it

01:19:29.189 --> 01:19:32.250
a hobby. If you have the power to make it a hobby

01:19:32.250 --> 01:19:34.890
and not let it become an addiction, not let it

01:19:34.890 --> 01:19:38.170
become your financial ruin, enjoy it in your

01:19:38.170 --> 01:19:41.649
own way. Enjoy it as productively as well as

01:19:41.649 --> 01:19:46.329
you can. But guys, it's a hobby that exists in

01:19:46.329 --> 01:19:51.270
an industry that is profit -driven. The manufacturers,

01:19:51.770 --> 01:19:54.989
in many cases, I'd love to have a conversation

01:19:54.989 --> 01:19:57.829
with like a Michael Rubin or whoever the head

01:19:57.829 --> 01:20:01.489
of Panini is and ask like, you know, are you

01:20:01.489 --> 01:20:05.689
thinking long term the way a lot of us voices

01:20:05.689 --> 01:20:08.930
in the hobby are? We want this hobby to last

01:20:08.930 --> 01:20:12.630
for 100, 200 years or whatever indefinitely because

01:20:12.630 --> 01:20:14.909
we love it. We think other people will love it.

01:20:14.930 --> 01:20:17.909
But if all it is is a path to financial ruin,

01:20:18.050 --> 01:20:20.729
then people won't love it as much. Thankfully,

01:20:20.869 --> 01:20:24.569
many people, maybe most, have it under control

01:20:24.569 --> 01:20:29.029
and have found a way to not lose their relationships

01:20:29.029 --> 01:20:31.529
their financial well -being and all that in it

01:20:31.529 --> 01:20:34.369
but again i stress guys this is an industry we

01:20:34.369 --> 01:20:38.329
call it the hobby jokes on us jokes on us because

01:20:38.329 --> 01:20:41.710
it's an it's a it's an industry and we are the

01:20:41.710 --> 01:20:44.329
hobby within it but it's up to us to not let

01:20:44.329 --> 01:20:46.649
the industry get the better of us on an individual

01:20:46.649 --> 01:20:49.770
level Alyx i'd like you to kind of put some finishing

01:20:49.770 --> 01:20:53.199
touches on this if you will And then we're going

01:20:53.199 --> 01:20:58.359
to wrap up this part of the show. Yeah. Both

01:20:58.359 --> 01:21:00.720
of you guys just brought up so many great points.

01:21:01.079 --> 01:21:03.960
You know, one thing I want to touch on real quick

01:21:03.960 --> 01:21:07.279
before, you know, we sort of close up here is

01:21:07.279 --> 01:21:09.579
that one of the biggest problems in the hobby

01:21:09.579 --> 01:21:12.739
right now is that there is no real governing

01:21:12.739 --> 01:21:16.220
body overlooking what anybody's doing. Manufacturers,

01:21:16.260 --> 01:21:19.180
platforms, breakers, right? Unlike other industries.

01:21:19.800 --> 01:21:22.500
like gambling or investing which have oversight

01:21:22.500 --> 01:21:25.739
from like a gaming commission or the sec the

01:21:25.739 --> 01:21:28.319
card world operates in this sort of gray area

01:21:28.319 --> 01:21:31.619
right breakers marketplaces again manufacturers

01:21:31.619 --> 01:21:34.460
they basically can do whatever they want with

01:21:34.460 --> 01:21:37.000
zero regulation and zero accountability so that

01:21:37.000 --> 01:21:39.359
means no licensing requirements for breakers

01:21:39.359 --> 01:21:42.729
no consumer protections for buyers no rules around

01:21:42.729 --> 01:21:45.750
transparency odds of pricing and no consequences

01:21:45.750 --> 01:21:48.069
for predatory behavior all things we've been

01:21:48.069 --> 01:21:50.770
talking about right and because there's big money

01:21:50.770 --> 01:21:53.689
involved like you you said Jeremy no one at the

01:21:53.689 --> 01:21:56.609
top has much incentive to change it like why

01:21:56.609 --> 01:21:59.510
would michael rubin change anything when they're

01:21:59.510 --> 01:22:01.289
just breaking in the dough and nobody's saying

01:22:01.289 --> 01:22:03.810
anything everyone benefits from keeping the system

01:22:03.810 --> 01:22:06.689
as is especially when the system favors hype

01:22:06.689 --> 01:22:09.449
over honesty so until there's a structure that

01:22:09.449 --> 01:22:12.029
holds companies and creators accountable the

01:22:12.029 --> 01:22:15.710
same way we expect in gambling or financial industries

01:22:15.710 --> 01:22:18.649
like you said Jeremy this is an industry right

01:22:18.649 --> 01:22:21.949
collectors especially younger or more vulnerable

01:22:21.949 --> 01:22:25.369
ones are left unprotected and and another great

01:22:25.369 --> 01:22:28.569
point there are most people in the hobby most

01:22:28.569 --> 01:22:31.029
people in this space are responsible and are

01:22:31.029 --> 01:22:35.170
able to be accountable and control themselves

01:22:35.170 --> 01:22:38.920
but there's still going to be no matter how you

01:22:38.920 --> 01:22:42.460
slice it a handful of people you know we don't

01:22:42.460 --> 01:22:44.180
know exactly what that percentage looks like

01:22:44.180 --> 01:22:47.619
yet but there are enough people it's enough of

01:22:47.619 --> 01:22:51.279
a problem where we need to step up and do something

01:22:51.279 --> 01:22:55.460
about it so it's again it's like playing a game

01:22:55.460 --> 01:22:58.180
where where the house always win wins and there's

01:22:58.180 --> 01:23:01.319
there's just no referees and it's the uh the

01:23:01.319 --> 01:23:05.579
reality of it and and you know again like Until

01:23:05.579 --> 01:23:08.119
something changes, until there's real reform,

01:23:08.399 --> 01:23:11.100
we're just going to continue to see this hobby

01:23:11.100 --> 01:23:15.140
spiral in a negative direction. And one last

01:23:15.140 --> 01:23:18.079
thing I'll say there, it'll be much better suited

01:23:18.079 --> 01:23:20.699
for the big players, the platforms and the manufacturers

01:23:20.699 --> 01:23:23.859
and the breakers, for them to adapt to what we're

01:23:23.859 --> 01:23:29.340
trying to do here versus somebody like a governing

01:23:29.340 --> 01:23:31.439
body like an SEC or a gaming commission to come

01:23:31.439 --> 01:23:36.279
in and just completely... strip it of you know

01:23:36.279 --> 01:23:38.859
everything and just change it up however they

01:23:38.859 --> 01:23:41.340
see fit like nobody's gonna want that we don't

01:23:41.340 --> 01:23:43.779
i don't want that so we just need to be more

01:23:43.779 --> 01:23:47.680
proactive we being you know all of all of these

01:23:47.680 --> 01:23:50.880
higher powers so um you know there's there's

01:23:50.880 --> 01:23:54.779
a few things i just wanted to uh mention in terms

01:23:54.779 --> 01:23:58.880
of like what we offer before uh before i sort

01:23:58.880 --> 01:24:01.560
of close out and leave here um first and foremost

01:24:01.560 --> 01:24:04.279
we we mentioned this earlier we run weekly peer

01:24:04.279 --> 01:24:07.260
support meetings um if you're interested in joining

01:24:07.260 --> 01:24:10.439
one of those you can visit collectorsmd .com

01:24:10.439 --> 01:24:13.279
and then under resources you just click on weekly

01:24:13.279 --> 01:24:15.619
meetings and it'll take you to a google form

01:24:15.619 --> 01:24:17.699
where you fill out the information and from there

01:24:17.699 --> 01:24:20.279
we can add you to these these uh group discussions

01:24:20.279 --> 01:24:22.960
which again are really really helpful and really

01:24:22.960 --> 01:24:25.260
impactful especially for those that need it we

01:24:25.260 --> 01:24:27.380
also put out daily reflection and educational

01:24:27.380 --> 01:24:31.130
content on a daily basis uh this is bite -sized

01:24:31.130 --> 01:24:33.949
posts that sort of help you pause reflect and

01:24:33.949 --> 01:24:36.270
approach collecting with more intention it's

01:24:36.270 --> 01:24:38.829
not overly preachy it's just honest and it's

01:24:38.829 --> 01:24:42.140
stuff we sort of wish existed when you know we

01:24:42.140 --> 01:24:44.220
were going through the struggle ourselves we

01:24:44.220 --> 01:24:46.880
also i have our own podcast which Jeremy would

01:24:46.880 --> 01:24:48.659
love you know to have you on at some point in

01:24:48.659 --> 01:24:50.819
the future where we sit down with collectors

01:24:50.819 --> 01:24:53.640
industry voices mental health professionals to

01:24:53.640 --> 01:24:55.340
sort of unpack what's really going on in the

01:24:55.340 --> 01:24:57.180
hobby basically just more or less what we discussed

01:24:57.180 --> 01:24:59.899
tonight uh it's not about hype it's not about

01:24:59.899 --> 01:25:03.020
like highlight reels it's just real talk with

01:25:03.020 --> 01:25:06.859
real people um And we're also working with some

01:25:06.859 --> 01:25:10.439
really great partners. We partnered with a company

01:25:10.439 --> 01:25:12.760
called Burgess Health, which is a professional

01:25:12.760 --> 01:25:16.520
online clinic that offers support for people

01:25:16.520 --> 01:25:19.739
with gambling addiction. And so that sort of

01:25:19.739 --> 01:25:23.359
layers in a sense of professional therapy for

01:25:23.359 --> 01:25:26.600
people that might need it within our space, because

01:25:26.600 --> 01:25:29.579
I'm not a licensed therapist. We've also partnered

01:25:29.579 --> 01:25:34.380
with Gamban. They basically... allow you to block

01:25:34.380 --> 01:25:38.779
certain software on your phone and what has always

01:25:38.779 --> 01:25:40.619
been gambling for them they've now added what

01:25:40.619 --> 01:25:44.380
not Fanatics among several other apps that you

01:25:44.380 --> 01:25:47.140
know basically you can limit yourself in terms

01:25:47.140 --> 01:25:49.279
of how much time you're spending within those

01:25:49.279 --> 01:25:54.859
within those apps and so you know if you're a

01:25:54.859 --> 01:25:57.319
part of an aligned organization or platform and

01:25:57.319 --> 01:26:00.220
just want to help create a healthier hobby ecosystem

01:26:00.220 --> 01:26:03.939
where we're always open to conversations um and

01:26:03.939 --> 01:26:05.659
at the end of the day you know this is all about

01:26:05.659 --> 01:26:08.119
community accountability and healing and we're

01:26:08.119 --> 01:26:10.819
here to remind people that again you can still

01:26:10.819 --> 01:26:12.680
love the hobby and protect your peace at the

01:26:12.680 --> 01:26:15.199
same time Alyx what's what's your mantra i know

01:26:15.199 --> 01:26:17.899
you have a mantra at Collectors MD collect with

01:26:17.899 --> 01:26:21.880
intention not compulsion and uh collect with

01:26:21.880 --> 01:26:24.939
intention heal with support I love it. I love

01:26:24.939 --> 01:26:26.819
it. Before we let you go, and then we're going

01:26:26.819 --> 01:26:29.279
to bring on Chris Hoj and Josh Adams, I want

01:26:29.279 --> 01:26:31.579
to just get some more comments sort of out of

01:26:31.579 --> 01:26:34.619
the way that I've marked for inclusion here,

01:26:34.779 --> 01:26:37.340
Alyx. So hang tight. Josh and Chris, give me

01:26:37.340 --> 01:26:40.560
five more minutes. Joe, grab some more popcorn.

01:26:40.680 --> 01:26:43.479
Here we go. Mid Atlantic says, Jay Lee, breakers

01:26:43.479 --> 01:26:45.159
may have come first, but the manufacturer, oh,

01:26:45.159 --> 01:26:46.659
we did that one, but the manufacturer pouring

01:26:46.659 --> 01:26:49.539
kerosene on the fire. Yeah. Well, not only that,

01:26:49.619 --> 01:26:53.609
they're customizing products just for them. uh

01:26:53.609 --> 01:26:57.050
okay next up midlife says give the base cards

01:26:57.050 --> 01:26:59.449
to your local elementary school teachers can

01:26:59.449 --> 01:27:02.069
use them for math and for prizes yeah give them

01:27:02.069 --> 01:27:04.949
out on halloween also give chocolates and potato

01:27:04.949 --> 01:27:07.010
chips but give them out on halloween to kids

01:27:07.010 --> 01:27:08.250
in your neighborhoods i've been doing that for

01:27:08.250 --> 01:27:11.550
decades ziggy no says breaking started as friends

01:27:11.550 --> 01:27:14.229
and a recorded video wasn't even live i mean

01:27:14.229 --> 01:27:16.369
guys this was in the late 00s this wasn't even

01:27:16.369 --> 01:27:18.819
in the 2010s breaking has been around since like

01:27:18.819 --> 01:27:21.319
08 or so, if I remember correctly. Linda Spurs

01:27:21.319 --> 01:27:23.720
says, without breakers, singles collectors like

01:27:23.720 --> 01:27:25.800
myself would not have as many cards available.

01:27:26.199 --> 01:27:29.439
And I do agree with that, but the hobby would

01:27:29.439 --> 01:27:31.619
be so different. Who knows what we would be getting

01:27:31.619 --> 01:27:34.979
at that point? 1956 Tops Guy says, everyone wants

01:27:34.979 --> 01:27:38.899
your money, but some components leverage deficiencies

01:27:38.899 --> 01:27:41.800
of the human mind to push people into dangerous

01:27:41.800 --> 01:27:43.640
financial mental territory. That's where I have

01:27:43.640 --> 01:27:45.420
an issue. That's what this whole show has been

01:27:45.420 --> 01:27:46.899
about. So while this whole episode has been about

01:27:46.899 --> 01:27:49.060
so far, Matthew. Yeah, we all definitely agree

01:27:49.060 --> 01:27:52.119
with that. Dog Food Soup says, I love that name,

01:27:52.220 --> 01:27:55.319
has the proliferation of group breakers led to

01:27:55.319 --> 01:27:56.939
what seems like a huge increase in the amount

01:27:56.939 --> 01:27:59.760
of card shows? I was blown away by the number

01:27:59.760 --> 01:28:02.119
of local shows when I looked recently. And I

01:28:02.119 --> 01:28:04.060
do think there is a correlation there, but the

01:28:04.060 --> 01:28:06.899
overall growth is just a part of it. Chris from

01:28:06.899 --> 01:28:08.479
Missouri, welcome to the show and thank you very

01:28:08.479 --> 01:28:11.100
much. Brett Miles says, yeah, Jeremy well said,

01:28:11.159 --> 01:28:13.899
I get to control how I enjoy the hobby. The moment

01:28:13.899 --> 01:28:16.239
that you feel someone else. whether it's industry,

01:28:16.359 --> 01:28:18.439
breakers, shops, online, controls how you were

01:28:18.439 --> 01:28:21.359
involved in the hobby. That is a huge red flag.

01:28:21.840 --> 01:28:24.159
Dave H says, with the amount of info now, we

01:28:24.159 --> 01:28:26.960
can get the case prices, add up the team prices,

01:28:27.140 --> 01:28:29.159
see what a breaker is making. If you don't like

01:28:29.159 --> 01:28:31.640
it, don't do business with them. I stopped buying

01:28:31.640 --> 01:28:34.579
with some because of it. And that's where, you

01:28:34.579 --> 01:28:36.180
know, the odds are different based on how much

01:28:36.180 --> 01:28:38.060
you're spending for the same spot. Mid Atlantic

01:28:38.060 --> 01:28:40.180
says, baseball cards stopped being a kid's hobby

01:28:40.180 --> 01:28:42.539
many, many years ago. It's a big business wrapped

01:28:42.539 --> 01:28:45.899
in. Bro culture and devoid of oversight. Yeah,

01:28:45.979 --> 01:28:48.840
bingo. And Phoenix Rising says, Alyx, what's

01:28:48.840 --> 01:28:53.739
your YouTube channel? Go ahead. I dropped that

01:28:53.739 --> 01:28:59.020
in the chat, but it is youtube .com slash at

01:28:59.020 --> 01:29:02.619
Collectors MD. Appreciate that. There you go.

01:29:03.039 --> 01:29:07.340
Okay. Well, this has been great, Alyx. I want

01:29:07.340 --> 01:29:11.460
to thank you for coming on and continuing the

01:29:11.460 --> 01:29:13.520
discussion. I think that... I think that what

01:29:13.520 --> 01:29:18.000
you are doing is the most likely catalyst of

01:29:18.000 --> 01:29:21.619
seeing some sort of actual material effective

01:29:21.619 --> 01:29:25.399
change, even if it is simply warnings before

01:29:25.399 --> 01:29:29.520
you cash out on an app or on a website. Whatever

01:29:29.520 --> 01:29:31.600
it is you're doing, not whatever it is, what

01:29:31.600 --> 01:29:34.039
you are doing, I think it's important, guys.

01:29:34.600 --> 01:29:37.439
Like I said, I think it's important. I think

01:29:37.439 --> 01:29:41.720
it's important for our fellow hobbyists who are...

01:29:42.060 --> 01:29:46.600
who maybe lack the the strength to stop when

01:29:46.600 --> 01:29:48.659
they should and i think it's important for the

01:29:48.659 --> 01:29:51.800
longevity of the hobby overall as well so Alyx

01:29:51.800 --> 01:29:53.039
thank you for what you're doing thank you for

01:29:53.039 --> 01:29:55.739
your time tonight uh it's been great having you

01:29:55.739 --> 01:29:59.180
thank you both Jeremy joe this has been an absolute

01:29:59.180 --> 01:30:00.960
pleasure thank you to everybody in the chat too

01:30:00.960 --> 01:30:03.619
you guys were great um you know ziggy thanks

01:30:03.619 --> 01:30:06.760
as always uh just for being super uh insightful

01:30:06.760 --> 01:30:10.399
and sharing your um your opinions on everything.

01:30:12.159 --> 01:30:16.539
We appreciate all of the support. Again, if you

01:30:16.539 --> 01:30:18.659
want to learn more about Collectors MD, you check

01:30:18.659 --> 01:30:20.920
us out on social media or collectorsmd .com.

01:30:21.140 --> 01:30:23.619
We are here to help. That's all it is. It's all

01:30:23.619 --> 01:30:26.460
about spreading positive awareness and just reinforcing

01:30:26.460 --> 01:30:29.859
that the hobby is a great place. We just want

01:30:29.859 --> 01:30:31.819
to make sure that we are collecting with intention

01:30:31.819 --> 01:30:34.000
and not compulsion. I love it, Alyx. Are you

01:30:34.000 --> 01:30:36.380
going to be the national? I'm not this year,

01:30:36.439 --> 01:30:40.680
but we definitely are. talking about you know

01:30:40.680 --> 01:30:46.220
preparing uh to have presence at not just the

01:30:46.220 --> 01:30:48.699
national but Fanatics fest amongst other card

01:30:48.699 --> 01:30:51.699
shows in the future Alyx thank you again for

01:30:51.699 --> 01:30:53.539
your time thank you for what you were doing uh

01:30:53.539 --> 01:30:55.899
keep in touch we'll talk soon absolutely thanks

01:30:55.899 --> 01:30:58.960
guys have a good night take care carry on all

01:30:58.960 --> 01:31:00.659
right guys that was Alyx Joe