Today's guest on The Shallow End is Alyx Effron.
He's the founder of Collectors MD, a group that
provides support to people struggling with addiction
-like behavior around sports cards and other
collecting spaces. Since the group started a
few months ago, I've watched with admiration
as Alyx has addressed the elephant in the sports
card room. Addiction, secrecy, overspending,
loss of control. The discussion you're about
to hear might not be as enjoyable as hearing
about a big chase or a big pickup, but it also
just might be one of the most important pieces
of content you listen to this year. Do we control
sports cards or do they control us? And how do
we know or sense when that line has been crossed?
If this podcast makes you think about yourself,
or someone you know, I urge you to check out
collectorsmd .com. It's a great first step. My
name is Dave Schwartz. I would dave sports cards
on Instagram. This is The Shallow End. Thanks
for tuning in, and let's get started. Welcome
now to the podcast. This is Alyx. Alyx, I'm very
excited to... have you on we were chatting before
we hit record about some of the reasons for doing
what you're doing with Collectors MD first of
all thank you for being here and how are you
dave thank you so much for having me i really
appreciate you giving me the opportunity to come
on the show talk a little bit about what we're
doing at Collectors MD um it's been a little
over two months now so there's a lot to uh discuss
and some exciting announcements that we've been
working hard on. So yeah, man, thank you. Thank
you for having me. Before we get into what I
anticipate being an important and necessary conversation,
for those people who are listening or watching
and have not heard, can you explain what Collectors MD
is and what the mission is? Absolutely. So at
its core, the mission of Collectors MD is simple.
It's to bring support, awareness, and accountability
to a space that often blurs the line between
collecting and compulsion. We're not anti -hobby
by any means. We still love the hobby. That's
kind of something that comes up quite a bit.
It's not about shaming people for enjoying cards
or sneakers or comics or whatever they collect.
It's about recognizing when the lines get crossed,
right? When what used to bring joy starts to
cause stress, damage relationships, or drain
your finances. There are people out there who
are silently struggling with this, spending money
that they don't have, hiding purchases from their
loved ones, chasing hits, feeling that dopamine
crash the second the break ends, and no one's
really talking about it, at least not in a way
that feels safe or judgment -free, right? So
that's where Collectors MD comes in. That's what
we're here for. We host weekly support meetings.
We put out content that speaks honestly about
mental and emotional toll. the mental and emotional
toll collecting can take. We're building a space
where people can be real about their experiences
without feeling alone or ashamed. We're also
advocating for change within the hobby, within
the industry, things like better safeguards,
self -exclusion tools, transparency from platforms
and breakers, because if the hobby is going to
keep evolving, it has to do so responsibly. So
yeah, this isn't just a content brand or a passion
project. It's a full -fledged movement. It's
one rooted in personal experience, real conversations,
and the belief that you can love the hobby and
hold it accountable at the same time. And to
be clear, oftentimes what gets most associated
with addiction and gambling, in my mind, went
to Gamblers Anonymous when you first started.
And I know you've talked before about how that's
a corollary there between the two. Yeah. But
people consider the breaking side of collecting
to be more associated with gambling and addiction.
But really, it's not just that. It can also be
toward just the small purchases on eBay and ComSea
and just buying and buying and buying. Is that
correct? Yeah, that's 100 % correct. While breaking,
I think, mimics gambling more. more clearly uh
any form of purchasing something that you don't
know the contents of even if that's like a two
dollar value pack at target or walmart is technically
gambling it falls within that category so um
absolutely i mean gambling has existed within
collecting uh specifically with sports cards
for for decades uh pretty much ever since you
know it became popular it's just become more
and more glorified especially by the manufacturers
and the higher powers within the industry they're
creating mechanics they're creating features
within their platforms that mimic gambling to
such an extent that it screams you know uh for
reform i mean there there has to be something
that's put in place to protect the end consumer
That is, you know, ultimately super vulnerable
to falling down the wrong path. Before we get
too deep into the conversation, people might
want to know what your background is. So who
is Alyx and what are your ties in history with
the hobby? Yeah, so my name is Alyx Effron. I
have been a collector my entire life. Started
out really as sneakers. I was a big sneakerhead
and I still am to an extent for many, many years.
I, at one point, had over 500 pairs of sneakers,
somewhere around my mid to late 20s. When the
pandemic hit, I was reintroduced to the sports
card hobby by a friend that I grew up with. And
I was invited to basically join a break group
called Bogo Breaks, where we were breaking on
Instagram and Facebook on a daily basis. This
was early on in the pandemic, say like around,
started around like April or May of 2020. and
uh i got sucked in really fast you know having
that sort of collecting gene in me um i i just
have always loved to collect not just sneakers
but uh memorabilia i mean i collected trading
cards when i was younger i grew up in the 90s
so obviously pokemon and michael jordan and you
know upper deck fleer those were all deeply rooted
in in my childhood and so um The current state
of the hobby, or at least the state of the hobby
in 2020, was just so attractive to a collector,
especially someone who was collecting sneakers,
which take up a lot of space. As you can see
behind me, this is what's left of my collection.
But at one point, it just got so out of hand.
My wife, my girlfriend at the time, was scratching
her head, like, how are we going to... Did I
just lose you, Dave? No, I'm here. You mentioned
if you can see behind me, so I decided to make
you bigger on the screen. Got it. I was like,
where did he go? Yeah, so my wife would give
me a hard time. Every purchase, every week there
was a new release and I'd have boxes coming in
and the stacks were to the ceiling and I was
finding any and every crevice of... our home
to store sneakers. And it just, it started to
really get out of hand. So the idea of collecting
sports cards or replacing, not fully replacing,
but replacing the sneaker obsession with something
a little bit more accessible and I guess collectible
in terms of how much space it takes up was just
really attractive to me. So I got sucked into
the hobby first on the breaking side, but then
started to join breaks. Started to open personals,
you know, quickly found a few shops that I would
constantly break with or, you know, purchase
those personals from. And that started to spiral.
And, you know, I was also gambling, online gambling.
Blackjack was my kryptonite. So I think like
the sports card really fueled that behavior where,
you know, there were cycles where I was joining
two, three, four thousand dollar breaks. getting
skunked, and then going and playing blackjack
to try to recoup my losses and doing it all over
again. So it got out of hand pretty quickly.
And so over the last couple of years, you know,
I've been toying with this idea of Collectors
MD. I have experience going to GA meetings. I've,
you know, I've participated in outpatient treatment.
actually at a local facility here in Jersey called
Right Choice Recovery, where they focus on problematic
gambling and overcoming that addiction. That
was like an 18 -week program that I did about
a year and a half, two years ago. So I have the
experience, you know, through GA, through therapy.
I'm not an expert in the space. I'm not a licensed
therapist. or a doctor or a clinician or anything
like that. But I've experienced the highs and
lows of addiction firsthand. And I feel strongly
that this area is completely lacking within the
hobby, within the industry. And so I've been,
again, toying with this idea of Collectors MD
for some time now. And a little over two months
ago, I just decided to... bring it to life and
it's been a rocket ship ever since so so what
what led you to come to the conclusion that this
was something that needed to be within the hobby
so you you felt what you were going through and
i really commend you for for working through
it and getting help and that's that's incredible
what were sort of the motivating factors for
wanting to first identify the signs that this
was also happening within the hobby one and then
two to do something about it yeah so i think
i recognized it when i self -excluded from gambling
that's uh something that you can actually do
in uh very depending on where you live but uh
it's available in most states where gambling
online gambling that is is legalized so i self
-excluded in the state of new jersey First for
a year, because you have two options. You can
either do a year or five years. So this was back
in April of 2023. I self -excluded reluctantly
after a year or sorry, for a year after being,
you know, basically directed to or advised to
in these GA rooms by therapists, by, you know,
family members. It was just really hard for me
to sort of, you know, come to terms with that.
You know, it was a part of my identity, right?
It was part of my lifestyle, so it was hard to
let go. But I eventually did it and sort of refocused
my attention, my energy, my finances to the hobby
and the hobby, you know, exclusively. And as
I continued to, you know, join more breaks and
open more personals and started to spend money
that I shouldn't have been spending, was spending
beyond my means, I started to realize how many.
synergies there were between the hobby and gambling.
And the fact that I couldn't self -exclude myself,
right? I couldn't put myself in timeout or put
myself in a cool off period or take a break from
the apps. I still had access and I still to this
day have access was problematic to me. And it
sounds a little crazy, right? Because as a normal
adult, you would think, How does another adult
not have the wherewithal, not have the self -control
to avoid something that's toxic to them? But
the reality is addiction is a real thing, and
it affects more than just alcoholics and drug
addicts and gambling addicts. a gambling machine
of sorts. And so, you know, again, not having
these limitations in place poses a lot of risk,
a lot of issues for people like me who are susceptible
to, you know, falling into these traps and going
down these dark paths. It's such a slippery slope
in so many different ways. And so my hope, my
intention with Collectors MD is that we create
enough awareness for the hobby and the industry
to recognize that these guardrails, these limitations
need to be implemented in order to protect the
consumer. What has been the response over the
last couple of months to a Collectors MD from
people within the hobby community? It's been
received extremely well. I mean, I was, honestly,
taken aback a little bit, especially when I first
launched it. I had people reaching out who wanted
me to come on their podcast and talk about it.
I mean, this was like just a couple days in a
week or two in and I didn't quite realize what
I was getting myself into. Because this is, you
know, surprisingly, I think to a lot of people,
an area of focus that people have been talking
about, or at least thinking about for a very
long time. And whether it's, you know, kind of
a topic that people shy away from because they
don't want to be judged or perceived the wrong
way or associated with their brand for, you know,
a number of reasons. That could be part of the
reason why this hasn't really come into, you
know, the light where it needs to be. But I think
with Collectors MD, it's allowed for that. It's
allowed for people who feel like they've been
alone for far too long to have a sense of community.
And that's what we're doing with the weekly support
meetings. People now have a platform or a community,
I should say, that they can be a part of and
know that they're not alone. There are other
people out there who are struggling with the
same things as them. Say a little bit more about
that, if you would, about these weekly support
meetings. And if people want, if people sense
something happening with themselves that they're
not happy with, that they want to change, what
tools does Collectors MD offer to help people?
Absolutely. So we started. our weekly support
meetings about six weeks ago this coming wednesday
tomorrow actually tomorrow night today's tuesday
i know this is gonna go live friday uh but as
of the time of this episode going live we will
have uh conducted six meetings um those meetings
basically have been inspired by my experience
in GA, where we have a foundation called the
Collectors MD Recovery Guide, which is basically
an adaption of the Gambler's Anonymous Yellow
Book, which covers the 12 steps of recovery.
There are 20 questions in there for anybody to
read through to see if they potentially have
a problem. And it goes through a variety of parts
ranging from, you know, when spending turns to
the cycle, to momentum versus intention, to defining
recovery, and really just digs into all these
details about addiction and about how, you know,
people can fall into these cycles within the
hobby. a really, really positive turnout. There's
actually a Google Forms link that you can go
to and answer a handful of preliminary questions
so that we can collect your information and ultimately
add you to these meetings. But I think it was
the week before last, we had our biggest turnout
so far, which was 17 total participants, which
was really, really awesome. And it's helped a
lot of people. uh so far and i don't expect to
grow i understand how important privacy is obviously
um but just what are some of the broader general
topics that come up at the meetings you mentioned
you had 17 people a couple meetings ago what
are some of the broader things that come up there
subject wise that if you brought them up here
somebody Who is struggling and either they know
or they don't know, it might recognize something
in themselves saying, can we talk? Yeah, we've
talked about X, Y and Z or situation, something,
whatever you can say that still protects people's
privacy. Of course, that's still on a broader
spectrum might help somebody else down an easier
path. Absolutely. We do treat these meetings
like closed anonymous meetings. So we do respect
the privacy. excuse me, and confidentiality of
all of the participants, but I can absolutely
give you a high -level overview of what a meeting
looks like. We basically just start out going
through the guidelines, quick about Collectors MD,
and things like it's a confidential and judgment
-free space. Participation is optional. You only
speak if you're comfortable. Listening can be
just as powerful. We appreciate honest and respectful
sharing. We try to push for only offering advice
when requested. We want to offer support but
not solutions unless someone asks for guidance.
We support. We don't fix. Our focus is on understanding,
not solving. And so we make sure that everybody
is on the same page when it comes to the guidelines.
Then we go through the recovery guide. We spend
about 10 minutes just walking through it. And
then we reserve the majority of the meeting for
our share and support. So that's an opportunity
for members to share anything they want, anything
they're comfortable with, whether that be a recent
experience or something that resonated with them
that they maybe saw on social media. or just
something super general. We also include a discussion
prompt each week so that if people come in and
they don't really know what to talk about, we
have this on screen so that it kind of gets people's
brain juices flowing. So for instance, this week,
the discussion prompt will be the stories we
tell ourselves, how justification keeps us stuck.
So we basically will explore topics like what
are some of the most common justifications you've
used to excuse compulsive spending in the hobby?
Have you ever convinced yourself something was
an investment or harmless fun when deep down
you knew it wasn't? How do justifications show
up in your language, habits, or thinking? Are
there specific narratives like I deserve this?
I'll sell this later. This is my last one. that
you catch yourself repeating, and what would
it look like to replace these stories with more
honest, supportive truths. And the objective
here is really just to explore how the stories
we tell ourselves can either fuel the cycle or
help break it. And by recognizing the mental
scripts we use to justify compulsive behavior,
we can begin to rewrite them and reclaim a more
intentional, grounded relationship with the hobby.
So again, that's just there for people to...
you know, use as a crutch if they want to focus
on a specific topic and they're not sure what
to talk about. But again, we are very reformed
in that we allow any and everybody to talk about
whatever they want, as long as they're being
respectful to others within the space and are
being honest and open -minded. Great. For those
of you who are listening right now, I have up
on the screen the link for the meetings. The
Google form that Alyx mentioned is here. If you
go to the website for Collectors MD, at the top
is a resources link, and it can take you to this
form, among other things. So, Alyx, in your experience,
what are some signs that people... can maybe
sense or recognize in themselves that might begin
to suggest, maybe I'm not in control of my hobby
experience as much as I think I am. And maybe
this experience is more in control of me. Yeah,
it's a great question. And it's actually a part
of the Collectors MD recovery guide. When we
have new members join, we will go through these
20 questions that again are adapted from Gamblers
Anonymous and tailored for compulsive spending
and collecting. And basically, if you answered
yes to any of these questions, it's an indication
that you're in the right place. You're not alone
and we're here for you. So I could go down that
list real quick if. Sure. Yeah. So basically,
actually, you know what? I have an abbreviated
version just because and I'll quickly caveat
this. We've had. so many people joining and we
try to keep these meetings within one hour that
reading this recovery guide ends up taking more
time than we'd like it to while it's extremely
important and it's the foundation for our recovery
we want to make sure that we allow as much time
as possible for everybody to get a chance to
share so this week i've actually been working
on uh an abbreviated version of the guide for
group use so it's basically just simplified for
clarity reflection and pacing uh and so i'll
just read uh the 20 questions from that version
um one do you hide how much you spent two do
you overspend often three have you sold things
to fund your hobby four have you lied about purchases
five do you check apps constantly six have you
missed work or plans due to collecting Seven,
do you get anxious when not buying? Eight, have
you gone into debt over your hobby? Nine, have
you broken promises to stop? 10, do you justify
everything as investments? 11, do you feel a
high when buying and regret after? 12, do you
avoid looking at your finances? 13, do you compare
your collection to others? 14, do you spend to
cope with emotions? 15, have you set limits and
broken them? 16, do you buy things you don't
actually want? 17, has your behavior strained
your relationships or health? 18, does your hobby
feel like pressure instead of joy? 19, have you
felt out of control? 20, do you worry you have
a problem? And again, if you've answered yes
to any of these questions, that's probably an
indicator that you might want to just take a
step back and reevaluate why you're collecting
in the first place. And that's all it is. It
doesn't necessarily mean that you have a problem.
or that you've been diagnosed with some addiction
or some psychological issue. It's more so just
being self -aware, taking personal inventory,
and making sure that you are collecting with
intention and not compulsion. I'm glad you brought
that up because as I was listening to that list
of 20 things, a couple of them I checked off
myself, namely checking apps too often and sometimes
feeling more stressed out by the hobby than getting
an enjoyment from it. But I think it's worth
reinforcing that just because somebody maybe
sensed one or two or three things in themselves
with the list, that doesn't necessarily mean
or trigger addiction. Right. But at the same
time, it might. And so it's worth, it's worth
thinking about. Have you had people come to you
in the last couple of months saying that either
the guy that you wrote, Or the appearances that
you've made on things that you've written, other
people's podcasts you've appeared on, in which
they have begun to recognize certain behaviors
in themselves? Yeah, absolutely. As a matter
of fact, I'd love to read an email I received
from, I obviously won't name their name, but
I received an email on Monday morning. It really
hit home for me just because it sort of reinforced
why I'm doing this, right? It made me feel validated
in that Collectors MD is actually making a difference.
So I'll just, I'll read this email. Again, it
came through actually 2 a .m. on Sunday. Hey,
found your... Hey, found your resources through
some YouTube channels. This is definitely hard
to talk about, as I'm sure many collectors feel
the same way, but I do think I have a dependency
on buying sports cards, not only as a coping
mechanism, but also fulfillment. I guess my issue
is I really do think I enjoy the hobby from a
collector's perspective, but also I like the
investment angle. The idea that I can buy these
awesome cards that I can enjoy, but will also
hold their value potentially over time. I think
I'm a smart buyer now, more so than I was a year
ago. I don't really prospect on young players
so much. So I'm not into the gambling aspect
of it as much, but it just gets me going emotionally
sometimes. And it's messed up because I feel
like this should be a fun thing to do, but it
becomes stressful and sometimes financially detrimental
to me. I'm not in any serious debt from it, but
I definitely noticed the cycle of dopamine rush
from getting a card I love to the come down and
then back into needing to make a purchase to
make any negative feelings go away. Just wanted
to share this with you. And it's comforting to
know that other collectors feel this way. Thanks.
Yeah, there's a lot there. Yeah. That was really
powerful for me, right? Because it's, again,
like people don't necessarily realize that they
are falling into these cycles, that they might
be overspending or overextending beyond their
means or doing something that might be financially
detrimental, as he said. But because Collectors MD
exists and because people are starting to recognize
it and it's, you know, popping up on people's
feeds and, you know, as I join more and more
of these podcasts, more people are just talking
about it. You know, it allows for a sense of
awareness to come into play. People take a step
back and self -reflect and ask themselves, hey,
do I have a problem? I don't want people to go
crazy and suddenly have this hypochondriac type
of reaction where like, I don't know if I have
a problem or not. Do I need to get help? Do I
need to start seeing a therapist? That's not
what this is about. It's just more so about,
again, just creating awareness and a space for
people to feel like and know that they are not
alone. And I actually just want to quickly mention
something really, really important. And this
is something that I had brought up earlier is
that I'm not a licensed therapist, a doctor,
a clinician, anything like that. I don't have
any experience in the medical field. But what
I do have is experience as an addict. Right.
I mentioned that I had a gambling addiction.
I mentioned that I had an addiction to collecting.
Those were. two areas that became really problematic
for me and my family um that that you know had
a negative impact on my life and so with that
i want to make sure that people understand that
Collectors MD is intended to be a peer support
group uh and you know we're here to provide Support
and resources for collectors who feel overwhelmed,
out of control, or financially strained by the
hobby. We want to raise awareness, promote healthy
habits, and advocate for responsible participation,
not to shame or to criticize collectors or breakers,
but again, just to provide a sense of comfort.
With that, we just announced a partnership as
of yesterday, Monday, June 2nd. where we have
partnered with a licensed mental health provider
called Birches Health. So going forward, if we
have an individual that needs professional help
beyond the peer support that we can offer, we
can refer them and direct them to Birches Health,
which is again a facility that focuses on problematic
gambling and behavioral addiction. So that's
really important. It was a huge milestone for
us. And again, it cements the fact that there's
a need for this. It provides validity and credibility
for Collectors MD in this space. And I'm really
excited to see where that partnership takes us.
For sure. Congratulations on that partnership.
Thank you. And I apologize if I missed this from
one of your previous appearances. Do you still
collect at all? Do you have an involvement in
the hobby beyond Collectors MD? Yes. So I think
this is really important. And this is something
that I think comes up quite a bit, right? Because
I mentioned BOGO breaks, which I'm not active
on. We don't break anymore. I'm not a breaker
at all anymore. We stopped or I stopped doing
that in, say, 2021. But I also have several other
handles, one for my sneaker page. one for my
cards. I haven't posted on either in quite some
time, but as you can see behind me, you know,
still have a few pairs of sneakers, still have
a handful of cards in my collection. And, you
know, the contradiction, I guess you could call
it, is kind of the whole point, right? That duality
is my story. The blurred line between being a
passionate collector and falling into compulsive
behavior, that isn't theoretical for me. It's
personal. I was deep in it. I love the chase,
the thrill of the rip, the community, the culture,
all of it. But I also know how easily that passion
can tip into something darker, into something
that affects your mental health, your finances,
your relationships. And I think that's the part
that will resonate with people because so many
of us are walking that tightrope, whether we
realize it or not. So when people ask how I can
be both, how I can be at the forefront of this
movement and also be involved in collecting,
how can I love the hobby and want to challenge
the hobby? the way it's operating. I tell them
that's exactly why I started Collectors MD, not
to cancel collecting, not to cancel the hobby,
but to make space for conversations that the
hobby doesn't always allow. Conversations about
accountability, intention, and support. I'm not
standing outside the problem shouting in, I'm
speaking from the middle of it, just trying to
light the path forward for anyone who's ever
felt that same pull. Okay, so there are two last
things, not last, there are two things I want
to get to before. Before we let you go, the last
thing is I definitely want to have to talk about
the industry and things that are in place that
make it pretty hard for people to navigate in
certain ways. But before we get to the industry,
I want to talk about a part of the site that
talks about the three MDs. And you are on. Denny,
Denny Kars, Denny Kars podcast talking about
the three MDs and said, you know, you mentioned
you're not a doctor, but MDs, it's sort of a
play on word and it's mental detox, money discipline
and meaningful decisions. Money discipline strategies.
I think we kind of understand what's there. Meaningful
decisions. For those of you who are listening
to this right now, I have a page on the screen
that. that lists these three MDs. And Alyx has
meaningful decisions as making decisions based
on your values, not hype or external pressure.
One is ask, is this bringing me peace or pushing
me deeper into compulsion? And then third point,
reflect on whether the purchase aligns with your
long -term vision. Okay, so we have money discipline
as one MD, meaningful decisions as another MD.
The one I want to spend a few minutes on is mental
detox practices. I think this is really interesting.
And, and this is what I thought of personally
with this. I've mentioned on this podcast and
others before that the person who really got
me into sports was my mom. She died like 20 years
ago. Right. But in, in the weeks and months after
she passed, I've not mentioned this part before
as we were like cleaning out. her clothes and
helping my dad organize all her thousands of
books to donate that sort of a thing. And as
he was going through finances, he realized that
she had left him with tens of thousands in debt
because she loved to she was she was she was
an addicted gambler. She would go to the casinos.
We knew that we didn't know the extent to what
she was doing there. And because she also handled
the finances, she was able to find a way to hide
it. Right. Right. And so over the last 20 years,
me, like others in the family, I've been a little
bit more cognizant of our own behavior. Like,
wait a minute, you know, sometimes addiction
can be in genetic or inherited or whatever. Right.
And think I'm okay for the most part, right?
But this mental detox part. is where I got stuck.
It's where I froze on. This idea of meaningful
consumption, does this serve or just distract
me? Declutter your space and mostly take a break
from apps, influencers, notification, or product
drops. I've never been into a break. I don't
collect sites. I don't care any of that, but
it's the app part of it. Since I really got into...
Back into the hobby, 2020, I guess now, during
COVID, coming up on five years. I was looking
back on the screen time component of my iPhone,
which keeps track of how much time you spend
online per day. That can be scary. It's scary.
And as much as I'm on now, compared to where
I was before I got back into the hobby, it has
nearly doubled. Sheesh. And it is those apps.
And my spending is under control. I don't have
a big collection. I kind of align with what I
want, but just the amount of mental bandwidth
that I give over to the hobby is insane. Right.
And in the meetings that you have and in the
people that you talk to, is this something that
you were seeing with people saying, it's like,
I just can't unplug from the hobby. Like, I just
can't like stop checking, checking, checking,
checking for cards or sometimes even just. I
think it was I forget who, but someone else said
it's like hobby doom scrolling where you're just
going through Instagram. You're just going and
going is how much do you see this sort of a thing?
Yeah, no, I mean, it's it's a huge part of the
cycle that we talk about. And that's why we've
implemented it into these three pillars. Mental
detox being the first. Right. And when we talk
about mental detox in the hobby, we're not talking
about. quitting or deleting everything forever.
We're just, we're talking about intentionally
clearing up space bandwidth physically, digitally,
and emotionally. So you can actually hear yourself
think again, right? The hobby, the hobby bombards
us with noise. There's new drops almost every
day. Now flash sales, influencer takes hot lists,
breaker height, and it doesn't stop. It's designed
not to the more overwhelmed you are, the easier
you are. to manipulate. That's how marketing
works, right? So the first tool we encourage
is mindful consumption. That means asking yourself,
is this serving me or is it distracting me? And,
you know, am I watching this break because I
enjoy it or because I'm restless, anxious, or
feeling that sense of FOMO, you know, into thinking
like I need to be a part of this or, you know,
there are going to be consequences, right? We
kind of like trick ourselves into thinking that.
Another powerful piece of mental detox is decluttering,
not just your shelf, but also your phone, your
feed, your algorithm on following accounts that
might trigger you to spend. Muting breakers who
never stop selling or never stop hitting you
up. You don't owe them your peace of mind, right?
We also recommend taking breaks. So intentional,
time -bound breaks from platforms, from marketplaces,
from group chats where it's always, about the
next chase. You'd be surprised how much clarity
shows up when that noise starts to die down.
Because here's the truth. You can't make intentional
decisions when you're overstimulated. You can't
tell what you actually want when you're being
told what to want 24 -7. So mental detox is about
creating space between you and the stimulus so
you can respond instead of react. It's not about
punishing yourself. It's about creating peace.
for yourself. We detox not because we hate the
hobby or want to exit the hobby or push it away,
but because we care enough to engage with it
on our own terms versus the terms of the manufacturers,
the breakers, and the platforms. All right. So
let's now turn to the industry. And I purposely
wanted to save this as the last part of the discussion
because it can go any number of ways. Sure. When
we talk about the industry, we talk about pick
your company, right? But there's Fanatics, there's
Whatnot, there's PSA, there's a million others.
No, there's dozens of others. What sort of mechanisms
within the industry and what they do, do you
see that makes... I'm trying to phrase this carefully.
What do you see within the industry that makes...
addiction of sports cards and all that comes
with it that makes it harder to break the cycle.
Yeah. So, you know, I mentioned the synergies
between breaking these, not just breaking, but
the platform experiences, the user flow, if you
will, and how it mirrors gambling to a T, right?
So the hobby. has become the wild west that's
what we always say you hear people saying that
all the time and so we are pushing for industry
level reforms not because we want to ruin the
fun but because fun without safeguards turns
into harm really really fast and i learned that
the hard way with with gambling right we're advocating
for basic very very basic very rudimentary consumer
protections that already exist in these other
industries with similar psychological mechanics
things like deposit limits. Okay. So people can
cap what they're spending before it starts to
spiral. They can put in their settings on Whatnot
or Fanatics that they're only allowed to deposit
like $500 a week, something like that. Self -exclusion
tools. So if someone knows they need a break,
they can opt out and actually stay out. So if
you constantly feel that itch, if you feel like
you're not going to be able to control yourself
later this evening. Once your partner goes to
bed and you're tossing and turning and you can't
fall asleep, you don't have to worry about falling
into that trap where you're going to pick up
the phone, mindlessly start joining breaks and
wake up the next morning feeling that sense of
regret. Transparency around odds, really, really
important. If you're selling a randomized product,
The buyer deserves to know what their chances
are, just like you would at a casino or in a
loot box. We see this a lot in gaming. We see
checklists. Sometimes we see pack odds for manufacturers
like Topps. But when it comes to repacks, when
it comes to this gray area, these products that
are produced by breakers, by third -party companies.
There's no transparency whatsoever. We don't
get to see any sort of odds and everything is
engineered for the consumer to lose. Right. The
house is always going to win. This is all just
sort of under the guise of of a hobby. Next,
we have standardized language and disclosure.
So no one's getting baited. No one's getting
bait and switched by words like guaranteed hits.
high roller box without understanding the real
value proposition. And this is especially critical
when it comes to live breaking, because the way
it's set up right now, again, it is just a free
for all. It's the Wild West. There's no regulation.
There's no third party oversight. There is no
enforcement of ethical practices, just companies
and creators cashing in on behaviors that if
this were gambling or even gaming would be heavily
regulated. Imagine this. Imagine if a casino
let you gamble with no age verification, no spending
limits, no player protections, and no posted
odds. That's exactly what's happening here, except
instead of chips. Sorry, and that was one of
my questions, and I'm so ignorant when it comes
to breaking. What I'm going to ask is, are there
age checks at Whatnot in Fanatics Breaks or whatever
it's even called? Do they check ages on those
sites? You know what? I'm not 100 % certain if
it's... uh a part of this i know you have to
put in your age but there's no way for them to
really determine if a kid is going on there and
lying about his you know birthday right it's
not like walking into a casino where they can
check your driver's license right it's it's completely
unregulated so you do definitely have to uh put
in your birthday when you sign up but i'm not
sure how rigid the verification process currently
is because, candidly, I signed up for my Fanatics
Live and Whatnot accounts years ago. But I'm
sure it's very, very simple for a 12 -year -old,
11 -year -old to download the app on mom's device
and start using mom's credit card to join breaks.
uh and something that's happening quite a bit
you see chargebacks and all sorts of crazy stories
um on reddit and instagram and so on um but what
i was getting at is that you know uh with with
breaking Rather than chips, you're buying teams
or repacks or instant rips. And while the hobby
hides behind terms like entertainment and community,
the mechanics don't lie. These are 100 % gambling
adjacent systems being marketed to consumers
of all ages with zero guardrails in place. So
reform doesn't necessarily mean like the end
of the hobby. It just means the beginning of
a safer one. That's all it is. It's just more
transparency. A space where collectors don't
feel like they're being exploited for profit,
but they're actually being empowered to participate
with clarity and intention. So it's about protecting
the people who make the hobby what it is, which
is the collectors. And it's just it's long overdue.
And frankly, I'm shocked as I've done my research
and I continue to advocate for this. It's it's
mind blowing to me that Fanatics and Whatnot.
and even the manufacturers Panini Topps Upper
Deck none of these companies have taken any accountability
rev at the very least uh you know raised a few
points here and there hey like this is this is
something we should probably tighten up this
is probably something or an area that we should
um you know create some some rules for it's just
they continue to add new features just make it
more enticing more um you know attractive to
people who have these tendencies to overextend
themselves to participate and that's the scary
part and i mentioned this to you before we came
on the live but Fanatics Live just announced
today or i'm sorry yesterday this new uh feature
called instant rips which is basically uh their
version of offering uh buybacks on repack so
you purchase uh you purchase a repack for 800
bucks you hit a 500 card they'll give you 90
of that on the spot you get your money back and
you re -roll i mean if that isn't if that doesn't
scream gambling I don't know what does right
so it's fine that they add these elements like
gambling isn't illegal gambling you know is a
form of entertainment for a lot of people that
if they can do it within their means and they
have self -control uh and they're not you know
overstepping or doing anything um as far as like
lying to their partners or spending this month's
mortgage on it like More power to you. Do your
thing. But there needs to be regulations in place,
just like they exist for gambling. It's remarkable
to me that something like this can be introduced
by a company as big and impactful and game -changing
as Fanatics, but still not have to create a sense
of rules. guardrails protections like it's it's
crazy to me that that that just doesn't exist
so one last thing i'll say is like when you're
watching uh a sports game and you see um an ad
for a casino or a sports book right at the bottom
of the spot commercial generally there's some
sort of um messaging around responsible gaming
responsible gambling yeah disclaimer if you or
you know somebody who has a problem call 1 -800
-GAMBLER that's a part of their corporate responsibility
right that's that's a part of the the rules you
want to uh you know play in this space you got
to follow the rules that have been set by the
uh governing body why doesn't that exist within
the hobby when there's so many synergies it's
mind -boggling to me that there isn't some sort
of gaming commission that that is over seeing
all of this it's literally just Fanatics Panini
Whatnot eBay and you know we're basically uh
marketing slaves to those higher powers with
with nobody kind of keeping an eye on any of
this to make sure that it's happening fairly
and um in such a way that protects the consumer.
Yeah. And I think it's worth noting that what
you, Alyx, and what Collectors MD is trying to
do is not to get rid of it. It's to make it more
responsible, more accountable. And I would urge
people, when you hear outside factors, other
people defending it, saying we don't need regulation
or this or this or that. It's entertainment.
It's fun. It's like, oh, someone enters a break
because they can't get all the Oakland Raider
cards that they want. And this is how they get
it. Like, sure. I think it's worth asking what
they have to gain and what their incentive is
to not want to have regulation on it. And when
you dig deeper into what their motivations are
and what they get out of using you, you begin
to understand why they. why they are operating
that the way that they are. Now, we are starting
to run out of time here a little bit. So I think,
Alyx, my last question for you would be, what
would you say to someone or what would you make
open to someone who is feeling like maybe they're
a bit out of control or just worried about their
own behavior? What can their next steps be to
take back some of that control? Yeah, so what
I don't want to do is scare anybody into thinking
that they might have a problem. I personally,
you know, feel a sense of, what's the word, like
obligation, right? Because I have experienced
both sides. I know what it's like to chase the
high, the rush of a big pull, the late night
breaks, the dopamine hits that feel like dull.
never come fast enough. I've experienced the
spiral, the financial strain, the shame, the
mental toll. I've seen how something that starts
as a hobby can morph into something far, far
more dangerous. But I've also spent years in
this space, not just as a collector, but a student
of it. I understand the mechanics, the culture,
the psychology behind the platforms and the products.
I know what's broken and I know where the hope
lives. So that's why Collectors MD exists. Not
because I'm against the hobby. I'm not. I love
the hobby. I truly do. I'm passionate about the
hobby. But it's because I believe in its potential
to be something healthier, more sustainable,
and more honest. I feel like I bring a rare combination
of lived experience with addiction, deep industry
knowledge, and a genuine love for collecting.
So again, I really want to push the point. home
that I'm not here to tear it down. I'm here to
help build a better way forward for myself and
for everyone else who's ever felt like they've
lost control, but still love the card. So if
you feel that way, if you feel like you are on
a slippery slope and are starting to go down
that path where you're overspending beyond your
means, you're hiding packages, you're hiding
finances, then Collectors MD is here for you.
know that you are not alone and it's okay. And
you don't have to give up the hobby. You don't
have to quit. There are layers to it. Some people
might have to. Some people might have to take
a long break and then come back to it with a
different mindset. But we can identify that together.
We can figure that out. And again, with the help
of Birches Health, there are even more professional
tools and resources to identify those things.
So, you know, if you want to learn more about
Collectors MD, you can go to our website, Collectors MD
.com. You can check us out on social. We're on
Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, Facebook, Mantle,
Reddit, a few others. But we want to be wherever
the consumer is consuming their content. And
we want to make sure that we're providing a space
for people to feel that sense of safety, that
sense of comfort that they've been longing for
far too long. Alyx Ruffin, thank you for taking
the initiative to create Collectors MD. Thank
you for your leadership on this issue. Thank
you for sharing your story. And I hope that we're
able to talk again sometime soon. Dave, thank
you so much for having me, man. It was a pleasure
chatting with you. And thank you for your support.
It means the world. And looking forward to keeping
in touch and seeing where this thing goes. All
right, man. Take care. All righty.