Thank you. Welcome to episode 113 of The Card
Diary by Hobbyist Thompson. I'm your host, Denny
Cards, and this is a, I don't know, somewhat
of a cross -podcast format because I usually
try to keep my hobby podcast... Oh my gosh, is
my mic okay? Okay, here we go. So basically...
I like to keep the car diary a hobby kind of
like recorded. You know, I don't really do edits
to my podcast, but I like to keep them as recordings
that I do. And then the hobby hangout, I've been
trying to do this 9 p .m. live on Sunday nights,
Eastern time. But this is a. I don't know. I
think it's kind of like a dual episode that I'm
going to put up on both platforms because my
guest today was willing to go live Sunday at
9 p .m., which is today. Oh, of course, may the
4th be with you, Alyx, and with all of you listening
and tuning in. And yet, this is not a casual,
easy conversation. This is going to be a... pretty
it may get kind of deep for some folks so this
is kind of you know not a warning or hey this
isn't for kids because this could also be for
kids in the sense that anyone really can get
uh head uh in too deep into the hobby whether
you're a kid or an adult you know there i think
we all know that With breaking culture, there's
just a lot of money being spent and the gamblers
or the gambler adjacent folks can really be affected
hard by this hobby. So I am going to allow my
guest to introduce himself here in a moment.
But I did want to say on a positive or fun or
light, bright note. I did go to my local FedEx
Kinko's. I am going to have a YouTube video coming
out about this. And yet I did want to kind of
share with all of you. Today's sponsor is me.
It is me. I am hosting my own very own trade
night at the Garden ALX. The address is right
there. I'll put it in the chat as well. 5380
Eisenhower Avenue in Alexandria, Virginia. It
is going to be May 15th. That is two Thursdays
from now. And I am covering the time. It is going
to be 6 to 9 .30 p .m. So I paid myself a handsome,
a very large sum of money to promote myself on
my own podcast today. It's going to be giveaways,
family friendly. I'm going to have some hobby
companies do some things. So be on the lookout
for that. If you're in the DMV area, please.
I've had people in the past drive kind of far
to come to one of my trade nights. I would not
advise people to come all the way out on a Thursday
evening on a school night to come out to this.
But if you are in the area, May 15th, 6 to 9
.30 p .m., and it is free for everyone who attends.
So thank you for indulging me on that. Without
further ado, I really want to have my guest today
introduce himself and what he's trying to create,
and then we're going to really dive into it.
But I'm very supportive of what he is standing
for here. So Alyx, the floor is all yours. Denny,
thank you so much, man. Truly. Appreciate you
having me on, appreciate all of the support you've
given me over the last couple weeks since we
first got in touch. And hey everyone, my name
is Alyx Effron. I'm the founder of a new movement
in the hobby called Collectors MD. I've been
in the hobby for years as a collector, as a seller,
buyer, breaker, you name it. I've seen firsthand
how easy it is for passion. to spiral into something
a lot more complicated. I've experienced it firsthand.
I've spoken and met with other people who have
gone through the rigor. And so that's why I started
Collectors MD. We're a support -based movement
focused on helping people collect with intention,
not compulsion. We host peer support meetings,
publish daily reflections, basically journal
entries. We work with creators, breakers, influencers.
and platforms to push for real reform in the
space because let's be honest, the hobby's growing
super fast and there are no guardrails that have
caught up in time to help those that need them.
So today I'm here not just someone who loves
the hobby and is extremely passionate for sports
cards, sneakers, memorabilia. collectibles, you
name it. I have been involved in it my entire
life, but also as someone who wants to help reshape
it into something healthier, more sustainable,
and more human. That's really good. All of that,
I super, you know, 100 % endorse. One thing you
said that I actually didn't know about you, and
I really have only gotten to know you in the
past couple of weeks, you know, like in the month
of April is when I really got to really understand
what you're trying to do. And I am supportive
of it is I didn't realize that you were previously
a breaker. Can you talk on that? Can you kind
of talk about you? You're going to go there.
Yeah. So that's that's a great place to start.
In 2020, beginning of the pandemic, a buddy of
mine who I grew up with, very close with, reintroduced
me to the hobby. And he was on Facebook and Instagram,
basically hosting live breaks. And it was basically
the first time I had seen anything like it. And
I was, at first, a little bit hesitant, thought
it was a little bit cheesy. Like, what is this
guy doing? uh as a grown adult opening packs
of sports cards for other adults it just felt
like really strange right and as i engaged with
it more and more and started to join the breaks
myself to support him i got super addicted and
you know found a lot of interest in it and as
a collector as somebody who has been a sports
fan my entire life love being able to enjoy a
tangible item that holds value as opposed to
a digital asset like a stock or an NFT. I've
always loved the idea of investing in something
that you're passionate about, that you can own
and appreciate, enjoy, potentially pass down
to a future generation. it was like the perfect
match for me not to mention i grew up in the
90s and you know i collected pokemon cards and
basketball baseball cards as a kid so it was
awesome to sort of re -engage with a nostalgic
time in my life and um you know at the time it
was really exciting in the hobby because it was
um It was all about the 2019 -2020 basketball
class, right? There was Zion, Ja, and you had
like all those quarterbacks, Joe Burrow, Justin
Herbert, Tua, Hertz, Jordan Love. It's like one
of the best QB rookie classes of all time. And
this was all happening at once. And so the products
were coming out and the hype was there. Zion
base cards were selling for like hundreds of
dollars. I think a silver PSA 10 present at one
point was like. upwards of 2000, maybe more.
So anyway, you know, it was, it was very easy
to, to get sucked in. And I did. And, uh, my
buddy who I mentioned in reintroduce me to the
hobby invited me to, uh, start breaking with
him under his brand called Bogo breaks. His name
is Paul Bogosian. Uh, and the, the brand, uh,
is basically, you know, a play on his name, Bogo
breaks. And it was me, Paul and two other buddies
that grew up, uh, together. that were running
live breaks on Instagram, Facebook, primarily.
Towards the end, we also started to break on
Whatnot, but really focused a lot of our attention
on Instagram. And so I was doing that for the
better part of the pandemic between 2020 and
2021. When things started to return to a state
of normalcy, we all kind of slowed down with
it. you know we were basically alternating breaking
every night uh and then you know towards the
end of 2021 it was basically like once or twice
a week uh depending on you know what product
was coming out and you know who had time but
we were all kind of just you know refocused on
our careers and moving on and i was the one who
kind of uh still you know continued with it uh
you know from the other side of the fence where
i was participating in breaks other breaks other
breakers uh buying personals collecting watching
the you know the crates of cards pile up to the
ceiling and just eventually spiral out of control
and uh so you know we still post on there sometimes
we still like buy sell trade uh and engage with
um customers or people that we have done deals
with in the past. So that page does still exist,
but we no longer break on it. I should take that
back actually. Paul and one of the other guys,
Tony, I think they went live like a month or
two ago to open up WebC. One thing I'll ask you
before I get to the next question is could you
move maybe a couple of inches away from the microphone
because I'm getting a little bit too much. Somewhere
in between that. and where you were yeah kind
of like that that might help yeah awesome thank
you so um not that it matters too much i did
want to ask you though what what were you breaking
actually maybe it does matter because in the
sense of like uh what sports were you breaking
and were those the sports that you collect because
i know some people like to do just one type of
collecting but then they break another i mean
i've heard that from some folks but let me know
uh what What sports or what genres were you breaking
and who do you like or who do you PC and who
do you collect? Oh, no. Now I think you might
have disconnected your microphone because I can't
hear you now. What about now? Yes. Now I can.
Go ahead. I'm just posting real quick that we're
live on my story. Okay. And then I'll answer
your question. But I want to try to get some
of the followers in the room if we can. Okay.
As you do that, not my cat, this cat, this neighborhood
cat wants to come on my lap and is now messing
with me. Okay. So neighborhood cat. Yeah. Yeah.
Just cat likes to, as soon as I'm comfortable,
it's time to. want attention from me so that's
just kind of how it goes um but yeah i i did
post that we were live on my instagram as well
i was kind of looking for any questions if people
had any questions i don't see any roll in and
i don't see any questions in the chat um uh but
i'll kind of get to that in a moment but yeah
so who what what were you what were you breaking
and what do you collect So we were primarily
breaking basketball, football, baseball. I actually
started out as the baseball guy because they
were doing football and basketball. Paul was
doing football. Tony was doing basketball. Other
guy, Joe, was doing a little bit of both. And
then I was like the baseball guy. And then it
got to a point where all three of us were just
rotating and doing all three sports. This was
also before some of these secondary sports really
blew up and became... you know incredibly popular
in the hobby uh you know those sports being like
ufc wwe um f1 women's basketball uh of course
you know there's a whole other side of it with
tcg um i don't know like there's like marvel
and disney and uh all that sort of stuff fall
under the same umbrella as uh tcg or is it like
more so just like uh trading cards i guess like
somewhere in between you know the the term tcg
is the trading card game part and i think that
loricana would be a tcg because there's a trading
there's like a tournament aspect to it a game
gamification or gameplay and then marvel like
let's say uh you know the most recent i can't
remember what it's called like 19 um was it 1987
i see that i wish i wish i hadn't uh 1994 something
x -men top 94 that has no actual like say points
and uh they're they're not used in like tournament
play that's those are just kind of like characters
so i think magic gathering uh certainly pokemon
is a tcg because they have the the stats and
the combat points and all that stuff right so
it depends which which product yeah but yeah
i would say marvel you know i remember as a kid
marvel masterpieces was like a huge thing of
course back then the packs were like a dollar
or two dollars um the artwork was beautiful um
but it didn't break the bank i think that you
know uh before we get to maybe what you do collect
like back then like it was wax has always been
a gamble it's always been a gamble it's just
that gamble it went from penny slots to a thousand
dollar uh you know, swings of the jackpot of
the slot machine. Right. So that's the issue
I think a lot of people have. But so did you
become the baseball guy because you like baseball
more? Not really. I'm just knowledgeable. I think
I was like the only knowledgeable baseball guy.
But I do. I do like all three sports. I would
say pretty evenly. It's hard, right? Because,
like, it really depends on the season and, like,
the teams. Like, I'm a Yankee fan. I grew up
watching or, like, I grew up rooting for the
Miami Dolphins. But they're just, like, notoriously,
you know, not good. And then, like, for basketball,
I kind of lean towards the Knicks. But, like,
you know, as good as they are this year, this
team kind of, like. irks me a little bit i don't
know like i don't know why like i love brunson
but lately he's just been flopping so much and
like carl anthony towns is so obnoxious with
his like you know this whole zesty thing he's
got going on so just like you are you are a new
york city guy then yeah from the tri -state area
born and raised in north jersey I work in and
around Manhattan. My wife works in Manhattan.
We actually just moved from Jersey City, which
is a town right outside of Manhattan, to the
suburbs in Jersey. But yeah, born and raised.
You know, it's really not by design, but I have
such a string of New York City guests. I don't
know if it's because... I connect with them better
online on Instagram or whatever it is, but, you
know, so thank you for taking the time and, and,
you know, from your schedule with, you know,
coming from the tri -state area. So you are kind
of like a New York fan, a New York teams fan,
but somehow Miami dolphins, which, you know,
you don't have to explain. I mean, I don't know
if you're a nineties kid, but I know that. Even
post -Perfect season, you just had the Dan Marino,
Irving Fryer years and all this stuff. So maybe
not recently that they've been good, but I don't
know if they were good in your childhood. But
I know with a lot of kind of, I don't know, mental
health or kind of like improving yourself, it
does kind of go back to who you were or what
you were as a kid. Right. Yeah, no, I grew up
in the 90s. I was born in 89. I'm 35. you know
the chicago bulls era just like watching the
bulls jazz finals uh you know obviously the knicks
with ewing and alan houston and john stark's
like that's all like deeply rooted in my upbringing
okay so so that's the foundational base um you
know you pc kind of like the new york teams you
were a breaker with baseball and you have seen
i guess before we get to what we're current you
know the current state of things and and collectors
md yeah did you as a breaker um see like you
know how some bartenders uh some of the more
responsible ones where if someone is drinking
too much they they cut them off um i've heard
the similar analogy occur with breakers some
of the better uh or more socially responsible
breakers even as if it's against their own financial
benefit or gain. They'll just kind of say, hey,
love you. You're a great supporter. You spent
a lot of money. I just can't accept more of your
money. Have you ever gotten to that point with
some of your buyers? It's a great question, first
of all. And I have spoken to a handful of breakers
who have acknowledged that and have stated that
there are certain customers or circumstances
where they will cut off that person if they feel
like they're spiraling. And I think that's really
important. And it's a huge part of what we're
doing with Collectors MD to push reform. But as
far as from my perspective, as a breaker, when
I was breaking, and again, this was four or five
years ago, It was such a different landscape,
right? Like the environment now with like the
Whatnot and Fanatics Live streams, you know,
the breaker playing the role of the dealer, the
marketer, the hype man, and, you know, still
breaking the cards and like all like the overlays
and the music and the sound effects and everything
else. It's just, it has like casino written all
over it. i mean like the repacks it's like a
it's like a carnival right um when we were breaking
on instagram it was like so much more tamed man
like we were doing like one hobby box divisionals
80 bucks a spot like you know we would hop on
for like one or two of those and that was like
the extent of it you know we we did have nights
where like we would open personals for you know
one guy who we at the time considered like a
whale and we would like see that same person
spend a lot of money with other breakers but
like those people generally you you had a sense
that they just like had a lot of money because
of how they were spending it and it didn't seem
like it was a problem at the time Now it's like
the Wild West. I mean, you go in there and, like,
these spots are going for, and we're talking
about, like, one team or, like, one player. When
they're selling these spots, they're going for,
like, upwards of $2 ,000 to $3 ,000 to $4 ,000
to $5 ,000. I mean, I think I saw We The Hobby
selling spots in their repack break for, like,
$10 ,000 plus. I mean, it's just, like, it's
mind -boggling that, like, you know, but, like,
ultimately what it is is it's a... it's a $10
,000 spin on the roulette wheel, you know? Yeah.
There's no other, you know, way to go. Yeah,
it's not even, you know, roulette wheel is probably
a better analogy because I can't remember exactly
how many numbers on the roulette wheel, but,
you know, you got the zero, double zero, you
got the black and the red, and you have like
one, double zero, zero to one to 30, what, 36?
36, yeah. Right, so then you have like 32 NFL
teams, 30 NBA teams, this and that, and then
I forget, whatever, like 32 MLB teams. you really
do. If you buy one spot, it is like picking one
out of like the entire wheel. It's not a 50,
50 proposition. It is not a divisional. It's
not a one in four chance, one in each chance.
You really are like picking one spot and it's,
and not only do you have to hit, I mean, not
only do you have to get, yeah, you have to like
hit like the main auto in one box or the 12 autos
in a case. Like you have to have like the best.
you know quote unquote like hit what's so crazy
about that is like the roulette wheel before
a spin like every single number is pretty much
like even in the grand scheme of things i mean
you can look at like the history of like the
spins within that like wheel and like you know
in terms of the odds of the next number being
people think there's yeah but there's zero correlation
there's zero every single spin is a fresh spin
unless of course like the ball is weighted and
that's like you know a whole nother you know
conversation for another day ethics of casinos
and such but um the the irony is like you know
i was saying all those numbers are for the most
part equal to one another with these teams like
you know there are 36 numbers on a roulette wheel
there are 32 teams in the nfl uh so it's very
similar um and you're trying to get one of the
better teams right like when you put your money
on an on an inside number for roulette like you're
not trying to put a number you're you're not
trying to beat anybody to like get to a certain
number or like try to like right win you know
the chance at putting your your money on the
number 15 or something like that it's like the
the way that these breakers uh sell these spots
it's like if you get the washington commanders
in a 2024 product break it's like it's a win
if you get one of the the chasers as they call
them now uh it's like oh my god you got a chaser
like that you've already won and it's like the
the the irony the oxymoron is that like you didn't
win anything like you now have a chance at potentially
uh you know getting whatever players come out
of the box that are assigned to your team but
the chances of that actually happening are still
so marginal so it's like you first have to get
the team the right team then you have to make
sure or not make sure but like then you have
to get lucky enough to get the right box that
has the right cards and then that like the player
that comes out has to be the right parallel and
you know again it's like semantics and jersey
numbers and one -on -ones and short prints and
case hits it's like It's so exhausting to even
think about, but like the manufacturers, I hate
to say it, but like they just do such an incredible
job. Maybe incredible is the wrong adjective,
but they just do such a good job of marketing
this stuff and making it so that, you know, their
consumer just keeps coming back every single
week, every single month, every year, you know,
like. optic is like all the all the you know
um craze right now right the optic football because
it just came out and this is one of the best
uh rookie qb classes we've ever seen you know
we're just talking about 2020 but 2024 potentially
could be like right on that same level just in
terms of like the talent and like the volume
the number of quarterbacks that are you know
going to potentially start and be successful
um and you know uh it's it's just it's it's insane
how um uh we're seeing all of these new products
come out i was talking about optic and the case
hits the downtowns like most of the downtowns
on the checklist are veterans right and they're
the same players you see every single year on
those checklists right you see mahomes you see
josh allen you see burrow you see all of these
veterans Even the retired players like Dan Marino,
Joe Montana, Steve Young, John Elway, they always
have downtowns. They always have kabooms. They
always have the same short prints that all these
consumers are chasing. It's just slightly different
for that year. So how rare is it really? How
many one -of -ones of the same downtown, of the
same player? have they actually made it's so
oversaturated but Panini and Topps Fanatics they
do such a fantastic job marketing this stuff
that people will always come back they'll always
keep buying it doesn't matter how many they produce
people will still eat it up yeah no absolutely
so i i want to kind of die uh delve more into
this analogy with like either roulette or the
casino or the gambling aspect of the of the hobby
because Please correct me if you think otherwise,
but my understanding of, say, AA, Alcoholics
Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous, Gambling, Gamblers
Anonymous, is complete abstinence. It's do not
drink. You've had your last drink of. You can't
expect an alcoholic to socially drink. It's abstinence.
Same thing with... drugs narcotics same thing
with gambling my understanding is it's not hey
um hey uh urine gamblers anonymous you can still
participate in you know hey go to a sportsbook
and just hang out don't bet right but you guys
have positioned yourselves and we can get into
the whole md part of the collectors in a little
bit but collectors md that you're trying to create
is you're saying you're not anti -hobby so You
you are still kind of OK with people being in
the hobby, but not the breaking part of the hobby,
like the gambling part of the hobby, because
because my my my, you know, before I let you
answer, like buying singles is a gamble, too,
because these prices go up and down. The market
goes up and down. Player performance goes up
and down. So let's say you do buy, you know,
something that's steadily even as simple as,
you know, just, you know, a base Jaden Daniels
PSA 10. you know, rookie card, right? Not even
silver, but for like a low amount of money, that
card will fluctuate in price. So, you know, kind
of speak to that if you could, please. Yeah,
no, it's a great question. And it's something
that has come up time and time again over the
last, you know, six weeks or so since I launched
Collectors MD. It's like the biggest question
that I've gotten. And that is, you know, wait,
if this is like gambling, shouldn't the goal
be to quit collecting altogether? And it's a
totally fair question, especially when you compare
it to programs like GA and AA and NA, where full
abstinence, like you said, is the standard. But
here's the core difference. Collecting isn't
inherently destructive. It's not the act of buying
cards, comics, sneakers, memorabilia, whatever
collectible we're talking about. you know not
necessarily the problem it's the relationship
we develop with them so for some people that
relationship becomes obsessive compulsive harmful
for others it stays fun balanced and therapeutic
so there are layers to it right And everyone's
threshold is different. Some people can set a
budget, stick to it, occasionally rip and be
totally fine. Others might find that once they
start, they just can't stop and they just keep
chasing. They're hiding purchases from their
family, loved ones, significant others. They
feel guilty. They feel shame afterwards. And
for those individuals, the answer might be full
abstinence or at least a long committed break.
So we're not anti -collecting. We are, you know,
we are pro hobby, but what we are more importantly
is pro honesty. It's about helping people figure
out what kind of collector they are and whether
they can participate in the hobby in a way that's
responsible, sustainable and healthy. Right.
So at the end of the day, it's not like necessarily
a one size fits all solution. Recovery in this
space isn't about like rigid rules. It's about
reclaiming control. setting boundaries and finding
a relationship within the hobby that adds to
your life adds value to your life instead of
draining it yeah and uh thank you really well
said and j2 comics thank you for being in the
chat and uh watching live and he says you're
right it is a lot and it's important to set boundaries
so boundaries is like the operative word honesty
operative word um these are really important
things so i mean uh The, you know, we talked
about mental health and boundaries and all that
stuff. So the MD part of Collectors MD is, does
not stand for medical doctor. None of you and
the people who are helping run kind of Collectors
MD is not, you guys are not trained mental health
professionals, but can you kind of explain what
that part is about? Yeah. So the MD, you know,
when I. came up with the brand when i came up
with the the idea of collectors md it actually
originally was supposed to be collectors anonymous
but i wanted it to be uh more approachable i
wanted it to be uh you know something that anybody
can uh be involved with right it doesn't necessarily
have to be somebody who has a problem because
at the end of the day we all like the hobby is
all about community it's all about making building
relationships making new friends meeting new
people and eventually you're going to run into
somebody who might have a little bit of a problem
so it's about creating awareness for others um
you know to help others so when you see a gambling
ad and the bottom there's a disclaimer that says
if you or a loved one has a problem call 1 -800
-GAMBLER right that obviously doesn't exist right
now in the hobby and that's what we're trying
to change but they always add that you know um
additional if you know somebody or if a loved
one you know has a problem make sure to reach
out it's so so important for us in the hobby
collectively as a community to look out for one
another and so um That doesn't exactly answer
why I came up with MD, but again, I just wanted
it to be more approachable. Now, with that said,
after creating it and moving forward with it,
I realized that a lot of people would question
me and ask if I was a medical doctor or a trained
and licensed therapist, or if we're based in
Maryland, which none of the above apply. But
what I have turned it into. is a bit of a play
on words and so if you actually go to our website
and scroll to the bottom there's a disclaimer
and within that disclaimer it says the md and
collectors md is intended to be tongue -in -cheek
we're not medical doctors or licensed therapists
and we're definitely not based in maryland that
that does come up uh quite a bit actually in
when you go to like when i go to my search i
see maryland everywhere which is like a little
bit annoying but whatever but the MD it's a nod
to how real the struggle can feel. And our goal
is to help diagnose unhealthy habits and support
emotional wellness in the hobby. So we came up
with three MDs is what we're calling them. Mental
detox, money discipline. and or meaningful decisions.
So within the recovery guide that we've created
for our weekly meetings, there's actually a section
in it where we focus on those three MDs. And
basically what it says is we believe in practical,
sustainable change below our core tools and guiding
principles that support healthier spending and
hobby participation. The first one being mental
detox practices, and it outlines basically three
bullets that are associated with that. And then
there's money discipline strategies, same thing,
three bullets, and then making meaningful decisions,
again, three bullets. So we ended up turning
it into kind of like a core pillar of the brand
and something that we are focused on as a part
of the journey towards recovery. Hmm. Okay. So
I'm sharing it on the screen here for those of
you who are watching live or watching the replay
on video on YouTube or video podcast. So, you
know, really good testimonials in here. Certainly,
you know, there's. There's a lot of good information
on collectorsmd .com, and I'll put that in the
chat as well. Let me stop sharing the screen.
Let me come back to the chat and just say Collectors MD
.com. So here's a thing, okay? And I don't think
this is like the $64 ,000 question, but I mean,
maybe it's a good segue. So earlier today, so
I have collectorsmd .com up on the screen here,
but we have... Not anonymous, but he's in the
chat and he said this, but I'll just say his
first name for the audio. Michael says, what
are you talking about? I just joined. And then
he said, OK, never mind. Goodbye. So why do I
highlight? The reason I highlight that is. even
if you do make it seem as approachable as possible,
I mean, I think there are a lot of people who,
again, it's the stages of grief and all that,
but like they are in such denial. And again,
this is not about Michael, but I feel like much
like a lot of things that we have been told to
attend in life, the people who attend things
are the, usually the ones who, if you, if you
willfully go into something, you almost like
don't need it. Like. Let's say there's a free
training on diversity in your workplace, right?
And they're like, it's not mandatory. If you
want to go, you can go. The people who are open
-minded or who want to learn how to be, say,
you know, an ally will go to those. It's the
people who aren't allies, the people who are
the ones who maybe need that diversity training
the most who should be in that. classroom or
the virtual meeting, but they're the ones who
are not there. Right. So you, you created the
space, my concern, you know, and I know we can
talk about like the first meeting and the subsequent
meetings, but my, my worry is the people who
need it the most are going to be the most resistant
to even considering this either because one,
they think that they don't have a problem to,
they think, Oh, wow, I've been doing really well
in breaks. I don't need this. I'm actually making
money. And three, just kind of like, oh, it's
none of your business. You know, I don't need,
you know, who are you to tell me how to spend
my money? All three of those are rooted in denial.
It's denial of the actual reality of the situation.
And so, you know, this person just jumped in.
He's like, oh, what did I just come into? Oh,
it's about that. It's about that topic. It's
about gambling addiction. It's about, you know.
breaking culture and you know compulsive spending
like i don't want to hear that i want to i want
to the hobby's fun i just want to have a lot
of fun Alyx you're not the fun police tell me
what you think about what i just said yeah i
mean denial is everywhere and honestly you know
it's something that for a long time like i told
myself those same things like you know i'm super
passionate it's not that serious i can afford
this you know at the end of the day like i'll
just sell some more cards to make up for this
loss i even you know at one point framed it as
like a business and that's how i justified it's
like my wife it's like well i'm breaking i'm
profiting i'm you know uh buying and selling
and i'm being like i'm really savvy with it like
i know what i'm doing right with like the flippers
mentality uh so in my head like it felt justified
right but behind the scenes like i was overspending
i was hiding packages i was constantly chasing
that next big hit and it stopped being fun and
started feeling like something that you know
i just i had to do uh and even when people you
know close to me started to say like you're kind
of getting a little bit out of control you're
like how many more cards do you need it actually
started with the sneakers which you see behind
me at one point i had over 500 pairs of sneakers
um and the sneakers turned into cards as I got
older. But there were red flags and I just kind
of always brushed them off because I didn't want
to hear it. And that's the thing about denial.
It's not always dramatic. It sometimes can be
really quiet and it's rational sounding and it's
incredibly hard to break out of that until you're
ready to be open and honest with yourself. And
so. Personally for me, that's why I started Collectors MD.
Not because I figured it out or I'm on my high
horse acting like I saw the light at the end
of the tunnel and I am now fully healed. That's
not the case whatsoever. But it's because I personally
need the space too. It's cathartic. It's therapeutic
for me. And I knew that I couldn't be the only
one. So it allows me to help myself while also
giving back. If that makes sense. So, you know,
at the end of the day, like denial is human nature.
We all want to believe we've got it under control.
But for some people like that line between love
and loss gets super blurry. And those are usually
the folks that are most resistant to hearing
it. They don't want to be told they might have
a problem, especially when the hobby is, you
know, their escape. Right. And for me, the hobby
and gambling, those were like, that was my escape.
With Collectors MD, we don't come in with judgment
or shame. We don't tell people what they should
or shouldn't do. We talked about GA, where it's
like they tell you gambling is the devil and
you can never do it again a day in your life.
All we're trying to do is just share our own
stories, offer support, and create a space for
people to reflect at their own pace. Because
sometimes the first seed of change comes from
hearing someone say, I've been there too. So
you can't force recovery. Right, right. Okay,
so before we get into the recovery, you know,
first meeting and subsequent ones, I don't know
how many people in chat and people who are watching
this are going to know what's called the Dunning
-Kruger effect. So I'm just going to read the
AI overview of it. It says the Dunning -Kruger
effect describes a cognitive bias where individuals
of low competence in a specific area overestimate
their abilities while highly competent individuals
may underestimate their relative expertise. This
bias leads to overconfidence in the unskilled
and the lack of confidence in the skilled. I
knew about this fact. I thought it was more about
the individuals with low competence. I kind of
forgot about the second part, the latter half,
which is about the highly competent individuals
underestimating their relative expertise. But
when it comes to the Dunning -Kruger effect in
the hobby, the reason I bring up this, I don't
even know what to call it, a scientific theory
or some sort of bias. Again, I'm not well -versed
in all of this at all, but I do know of this.
But the reason I bring it up is because I feel
that a lot of people think that they are good
or can – because of the low barrier to entry
in every single freaking thing in this hobby,
whether – and I'm not just talking about collecting,
but I'm talking about flipping. repacking, breaking,
setting up as a vendor at a show, setting up
your own eBay account. Like my whole concept
of the card diary by Javier Thompson was. Hunter
S. Thompson was like, I'm just going to try a
lot of different things and see what, you know,
not what I'm good at or bad at, but he would
just embed himself into different situations
and try different things. You know, the master
of none, jack of all trades. So that's, you know,
we're at episode 113, like the original episode.
The whole reason for this podcast existing is
pretty much the Dunning -Kruger effect in full
display in the hobby. Me, myself, trying different
things. And so. I think that it is what I've
learned is what I like to do, what I don't like
to do, what I'm good at, what I'm not good at.
But it really is anyone who has a pulse and a
little bit of money feels like they can do really
anything in this hobby because no one really
can tell them no because of the whole wild, wild
west mentality or atmosphere that we currently
are in. We do have this. And people watching
things on YouTube thinking, you know, I've definitely
had people say, you've inspired me, Denny, to
try, you know, to try a podcast, to set up as
a vendor, to, you know, to do this or do that
and, you know, try my own YouTube. And I'm like
really flattered. It's really nice. It really
costs you nothing to create a podcast or YouTube
channel or to sell on eBay. But I think there
is a danger when. again if you spend too much
money in it so again if you are say not even
just a break or buying into breaks but if you're
a flipper and you just can't get your accounting
straight and you think you're a good flipper
but you are just underwater on cards or there
you've bought a lot of bricks or you're actually
not as good not as savvy from the on a business
transaction side of the hobby you are you you
have a cognitive bias you think you can do it
and you a lot of people are realizing you know
i can't or hey sports cards were hot it was easy
um to to transact in the hobby but now it's like
oh pokemon's hot so i better jump to pokemon
so i actually see a lot of people their vendor
tables are flipping from sports 100 zero pokemon
to 50 50 to now zero sports 100 pokemon yeah
this is like All really, really good points.
I love that you brought up something that's scientific
in nature, like an actual theory that ties to
this directly. And I mean, I think you really
hit the nail on the head, right? Like in the
context of collecting, someone starts ripping,
they're flipping cars, they're chasing slabs.
And after a few wins, they start thinking they've
got it all figured out. Like there's some sort
of expert. they're a market analyst like they're
a dealer now right like meanwhile they're drowning
in credit card debt they're stuck holding piles
of bulk that they can't move so you know it's
it's not about like being stupid it's not it's
about like not yet knowing what you don't know
if that makes sense yeah it's like you're super
dangerous right right like because in a hobby
that's in sorry my wife's calling me okay sorry
phone's blown up You know, it's crazy. You know,
the hobby is, like, designed to be fast and flashy
and full of FOMO. Hold on one sec. She's calling
me again. Let me text her. i should have told
her that yeah no uh why don't you go on pause
for just a minute and i'll just kind of talk
about this so about the whole people okay so
i'm reading off wikipedia here it says according
to psychologist robert d mcintosh and his colleagues
it is sometimes understood in popular culture
as the claim that and this is the quote stupid
people are too stupid to know that they are stupid
man that is A lot of the hobby. It is from the
transactional side. Again, not the collector
side. I mean, there is no stupidity in collecting.
I mean, you collect what you love, buy what you
love. But the thing about that whole mantra of
buy what you love is it really is this kind of
like nice way of just saying like, hey, don't
be in the transactional side of the hobby. But,
you know, my inverse to that is don't buy what
you love if you want to flip it. It's like. you
know, hate what you flip, right? It's almost
like, I don't love baseball and football as much
as I love basketball. So it's hard for me to
sell my Michael Jordan cards. It just is. I mean,
I'm high on them, or I don't have room on them.
I'm not flexible on them, because I'd rather
just keep it. So it would take more money for
someone for me to let go of my Jordan cards,
whereas a flipper would be like, Oh, I just need
to get at least uh margin like you know five
percent ten percent you know as long as i make
20 bucks off this transaction you know uh i'm
okay i don't care about the card so a lot of
people and and this is the flipper mentality
is like the cards are merely just the conduit
to uh financial success it's like they literally
do not care about cards and so that's why they're
okay moving to pokemon and they were previously
in sneakers where you know that were hot earlier
too so you know it is the whole stupid people
are too stupid to know they are stupid i'm gonna
put that in the chat too for people who come
up who come out later but uh i'm gonna stop sharing
screen and i'm gonna give you the the floor now
there we go i don't know if you heard me but
yeah i i heard everything you said yeah that
was weird when my wife facetimed me it was connected
to my computer so yeah like completely malfunction
but apologize for that yeah um yeah i mean it
all makes complete sense and you brought up a
a point before about how people are like flipping
from uh sports cards to pokemon because like
that's what's hot that's like what's hyped and
it's pokemon's always hyped right it's like that's
been um a pillar of collect the collecting world
for decades now uh to the point where like you
know talk about vintage cards like pokemon falls
in that mix with uh like the original you know
98 charizard whatever year it came out but uh
it's just like it kind of makes me sad to an
extent just like how much hype drives what people
are collecting it's like it's not about passion
or meaning or connection it's it's literally
just hype and again it just like it makes me
sad to see people buying whatever, cards, sneakers,
comics, you know, any type of collectible, not
just because they love them, but because they're
afraid of missing out. They have that sense of
FOMO because a YouTuber or an influencer or,
you know, Roth cards, I don't mean to like call
anybody out, but like, they're like, oh, this
is hot. You got to buy this now. You got to hop
on this athlete. Everybody's got to do it. Because
like at the end of the day, everyone on their
feed is ripping the same product, right? And
I get it. I've been there. We all have. But when
hype becomes the compass, you start losing sense
of why you started collecting in the first place.
And it becomes less about joy and more about
chasing the next big thing just to feel that
you're still in it. And so I was just going to
say to tie it all together, tie it back to Collectors MD,
one of the big reasons why I started it was to
help people reconnect with intention. collecting
for a purpose collecting in what you love what
you believe in to remind folks it's okay to sit
on the sidelines sometimes that it's okay to
collect for you not for the algorithm because
when all the hype fades and it always does you
know what's hot today is forgotten tomorrow what's
left should be something that still matters to
you and that's really really important to me
j2 says uh really really good thing and glad
earlier was like yeah are you guys talking about
the dunning crew Kruger Fact and says, what's
up? Thank you for being here. Glad. J2, flipping
cards sounds fun and easy, but finding a buyer
is sometimes harder than it looks. Absolutely.
And Brandon just now says, finding a way to replace
the dopamine rush. You know, it's really interesting
that former, and I've heard this, you know, again,
it's just allegorical, just, you know, just data
points, discrete data points and not like a general
trend, but. alcoholics um when they're in the
recovery they find something else to be addicted
to um gamblers we have a lot of people who stopped
gambling on you know going to sports books but
are now in the hobby there are people who have
done drugs who they don't they stop drugs but
they smoke up a chimney because they need something
to be addicted to yeah there's some something
to replace the dopamine rush you know go ahead
it's it's crazy how for me like i okay so A couple
of days ago, I met with the owner of a local
facility. It's called Right Choice Recovery.
It's here in Jersey. They're based in Dayton,
New Jersey, and they offer service and therapy
and recovery programs for people with all sorts
of addiction, alcohol, narcotics, gambling. And
we're talking about, you know, I don't want to
jump the gun, but we're talking about ways to
potentially partner and, you know, add this.
uh sort of division uh within what they what
they offer so um the guy who founded it his name
is rob sakowitz he's he's a great great guy um
really really cares about people and helping
them find purpose in life and and you know just
getting on the right path and he he himself was
a compulsive gambler and he was millions and
millions of dollars in debt and what he did was
he took the negative in his life and he turned
it into a positive and made it his best asset
right and that in a way like i i wasn't like
consciously thinking that when i started collectors
md but for me this has in a lot of ways replaced
that sort of itch that that dopamine rush that
my body is craving right because it's giving
me a sense of purpose and at the end of the day
like you can't control it like The dopamine is
real. It's a real chemical. And your brain starts
to literally crave it. And at the end of the
day, it's not about the cards anymore. It's not
about the packs. It's all about chasing that
feeling. And the danger is once your brain gets
used to those spikes, you need to feel it every
day. Otherwise, everything is dull. It's a drug.
It's quite literally a drug. you can't just tell
somebody like just to stop spending or to take
a break. It just, it doesn't work that way. Like
addiction is addiction. You're, you're not just
stopping a habit. You're removing a source of
like emotional stimulation. And so, you know,
that's why in recover, we talk so much about
replacing that rush. So I think everybody's just
has to find new ways to get that same reward.
Like for me, it was starting collectors MD. Like
it might be a movement or another movement, creativity,
community, helping someone exercise, you know,
progress towards a goal something that lights
your brain up in a healthier way some of these
like sound obviously some of that sounds like
kind of canned and cheesy but like you just have
to find what works for you that helps you and
doesn't harm you or those around you so because
if you don't replace it you're just you're eventually
just you're gonna feel empty so breaking a course
if you get into like a high you know, dollar
amount, it can get destructive if you're getting
crushed and you're, you know, racking up credit
card bills. If you have a money tree or if you're
super rich, yeah, it doesn't matter losing in
several thousand dollar breaks because that's,
you know, that's play money. That's, you know,
that's petty cash. But for the most of Americans
or people who are ever watching, because I know
I do have an international audience, is, you
know, my question to you is, What is another
way within the hobby, not exercise or, you know,
eating healthy or, you know, doing other things
that are therapeutic and good for you. But do
you have any suggestions of different ways to
replace the dopamine rush within the hobby? And
one example before I let you answer is, could
that be doing personal wax? Or is that just another
way of, again, like breaking culture just has
like. 32 teams, 36 spots on the roulette wheel.
You've got to hit the team if it's a random break.
If it's like pick your own team, then you're
just paying a lot for the commanders. But if
it's a random team, not only do you have to get
the commanders if it's 2024 because of Jaden
Daniels and the rookie class, and then you've
got to hit the downtown in order to justify the
amount spent. But what if you just buy a box
of Donruss Optic, which... I recently did. I
mean, I spent $250 on a fat pack box, but I know
I can, I know it's not irresponsible for me to
buy a box of that. So what, one, is buying your
own personal wax a way to replace dopamine rush?
And two, if it's not, what is? So it's, I mean,
it's such a tough question to answer because
Every person is different. And it's so, it's
like case by case, you know, for me personally,
I tried that exactly where you just suggested.
I tried to stop joining breaks and just opening
personals, but that ended up for me becoming
like an even worse habit because the personals
were so much more expensive. And these days,
like, you know, the way these cases are designed.
nine out of the 12 boxes are duds. And then like
maybe one or two, you might come close to breaking
even. And then like one might have like the big
hit. And in most cases, like if you count up
every single card within a case or like you value
every single card in the case, you're most likely
not going to find a card that even pays for one
box, let alone the entire case. So like I would
just chase, chase, chase, chase, chase to the
point where like, you know, by the time I hit
something that scratched that itch. i've already
dropped like thousands of dollars so again it
really depends on the type of person you are
and if you are able to control yourself and be
responsible if you can just go to walmart with
your kid or uh you know with some friends and
buy a few fat packs or mega boxes and just scratch
that itch by opening those packs regardless of
what you hit more power to you but for me like
that doesn't work because i'm not going to stop
until i hit something of note something that
like i can put in my pc or like marvel over and
that's just how i've always been um so it's tough
man it's tough to like figure out a replacement
or a solution within the hobby there are things
i think that you can try to do but you know you
know you mentioned like drug addicts smoke cigarettes
it it's such a diluted version of the actual
drug that it's, it's just, it's really hard to
replace. So if you are that deep and you feel
that, you know, you need that dopamine rush and
you know, you can't cope without it, it might
be more beneficial to you to just take a step
back and take some time away from the hobby completely.
I'm not saying like self exclude forever, because
obviously you can't even do that. Like you can
with gambling. But it might make more sense for
you to just like pause, take some time to yourself,
focus on other things that make you happy and,
you know, figure out a better solution for your
lifestyle. I mean, again, there's so many layers
to it. Because like on the other hand, if you
are, if you do have some control and you are
responsible, like you could do things like, you
know, just. organizing and cataloging the collection
you already have. You know, you could just focus
on like research and education and like, you
know, monitoring the newest releases and just
like being a bystander and watching the breaks.
You know, you can like trade the cards you do
have instead of buying new ones or ripping boxes.
You can create content, storytelling. There's
actually a young lady that has been a huge advocate
of Collectors MD from the start. and i've actually
been talking to her about potentially doing some
con uh you know collaborating on some content
together because i think she's really talented
um i'd actually love for you to bring up her
page if you don't mind but i think like she's
a perfect example of somebody who collects with
intent and it's clear that she doesn't like overspend
or like extend beyond her means but she curates
her collection in like such a beautiful way that
clearly like she's super passionate about it
and she's probably just as happy if not more
happy than those collectors that are chasing
the logo men or like you know the the six -figure
cards in the hobby and so her name is uh bullseye
breaks her name her name is maya um i've met
her over video and she has again she has a beautiful
page where she uh hones in on like the players
that she um PCs, it's bullseye underscore breaks.
So I think she PCs like Bobby Witt and like Shota
Imanaga and Seiza Zuki. And she photographs them
in like a very unique way that like really stands
out. And like, again, clearly like that is her
passion. Like she loves photography. She loves
curating. And you could do that without spending
your entire life savings. You know? Yes, thank
you for that. So I don't want to go into her
page, not because I'm like, no, she didn't pay
me to and got to sponsor this whole thing. It's
more of we're almost at an hour and I don't want
to go too much over an hour. And I want to read
some really good comments in the chat. That said.
As a reminder, this is the second sponsor read.
This is today's episode on the Car Diary by Hobbyist
Thompson slash Hobby Hangout, live on YouTube
and available on replay on YouTube and wherever
you get your podcasts is me. I am sponsoring
my own today. I have a trade night for sports
cards and Pokemon at the Garden ALX 5380. 5380
Eisenhower Avenue in Alexandria, Virginia. It's
hosted by me. I'm going to have some hobby companies
jump in and give some giveaways and have some
food. We're going to have a great time. Free
for all ages. Again, if you are within driving
distance. from Alexandria, Virginia and in the
DMV it is a Thursday night so it may not be so
great for kids who have school the next day uh
especially if they have to drive more than like
i don't know 40 minutes but it is may 15th it's
from 6 to 9 30 p .m that said i the snickerdoodle
crowd is out in full force orange slices says
is Pokemon packs gambling Connor says sorry for
being late Denny not a problem at all don't have
to apologize um before we get to orange slice's
question i wanted to kind of stay on this uh
this anal analogy or analog to you know the the
you know we've had some comparisons with gambling
comparisons with addiction of like you know say
cigarettes so brandon a really good uh uh back
-to -back comments he says Personal wax to me
feels like replacing cigarettes with vaping.
I spent just as much on personal wax rabbit holes.
Thank you for your honesty, Brandon, and great
analogy there. Really like that. He also says,
that said, spending time just talking in local
card shops and focusing on things that emphasize
the community aspect helped a lot. Thank you,
Brandon. That is a concrete, real example of
what maybe is not going to directly one -to -one
replace the dopamine rush. But again, the hype
machine, the chases, the roulette wheels, the
casino aspect of things, it's so hard to, you
know, it's marketing 101. It's capitalism 101.
It's easy to kind of get into all that, but just
appreciating what you have. And again, if we...
always and it's so sad a lot of these breakers
go the community i'm all about the community
i'm all for the people for the people they just
it's for the buying community that they don't
care about you if you're not spending money if
you're not a whale if they don't have your number
to text you and say hey uh jumping on this uh
break it's i'm having a hard time feeling filling
it or all these teams are going for too low they
have these big breakers have their big whales
who are able to jump in they have their numbers
and they text them and they say jump in so so
i don't get destroyed or killed and These whales
will oblige. Sure, I'll just, you're my friend.
You text me happy birthday because you know my
birthday and you read my comments out in the
chat and you laugh at my jokes in the chat. They're
just doing that. It's like the pretty girl bartender
who's flirting with you at the bar so you buy
more drinks. They don't care about you. They
just want your tips. So having said that, focus
on what you love, what you have, folks. That's
why buying what you love is important because
you don't want to look at a card and go, oh my
gosh, I remember I spent $1 ,000 on that break
to get a $500 card. But if you have that $500
card, it's great. It's nice to look at. So Brandon
here says, spending time just talking in local
card shops, that's actual community building.
LCSs, yes, they might have higher price wax online
or on breaks or whatever, but they actually have
the brick and mortar. It is a third space. It
is a place for you to go that is not your home
and it's not your office where you can actually
have. people who are like -minded such as yourself
and talk with them about sports, about collecting.
And so Brandon, like, thank you. That's, that's
really great. Before I move on to other questions
and comments, you know, anything you wanted to
touch on that with Alyx? Yeah. I dropped a few
comments in the chat while you were talking.
I think he, who was it? Brandon hit the nail
on the head. I think if you're trying to. step
down or like replace your addiction with another
habit, you're, you're just justifying it. You're,
you're basically just, you know, tricking yourself
into thinking that you're, you know, replacing
it with a, a better, healthier option. But at
the same day, it's, it's the same compulsion
just packaged slightly differently. Right. And
the same thing can, can be said about so many
different types of addictions. But, you know,
as far as like, cigarettes versus vaping like
that's so universal like anybody can understand
you know that they're neither are good for you
maybe one is better than the other slightly but
like you're just picking the lesser of two evils
right and and regarding community like communities
is everything like spending time in your local
shop talking to people sharing stories trading
building connections you know focusing on relationships
like that's what grounds you like that's what
we should be focused on not just the cardboard
you know what's incredible about this hobby is
that it brings people together you see the amount
of people that come together at trade shows card
shows the national Fanatics Fest and that's a
beautiful thing you know and we can do that now
in today's day and age with technology it allows
us to do it together and I just want to see a
community. I want to see a hobby that isn't just
all about dollar signs. Everything is a goddamn
dollar sign these days, right? It's like the
breaks, you get a big hit and all the breaker
talks about is how much the card is worth. Wow,
it's a nuke. It's worth, this customer turned
$10 into $10 ,000. Like at the end of the day,
why can't we just focus on? The beauty of the
hobby, the card itself, the athlete, let's celebrate
that athlete and their success on or maybe off
the field, you know, and maybe you're a fan of
that player or that team. Like, let's talk about
those things. It doesn't always have to tie back
to the monetary value. And I think that's a huge
reason why the hobby has been heading in the
direction it's been headed in. Right. And I don't
want to come across as like. overly vanilla like
you know i get it at the end of the day like
i mentioned this in the beginning of of the the
live like i love the idea of investing in something
tangible that you could take home and enjoy and
eventually pass down you know like if these cards
were completely worthless like would we still
collect like you know that's maybe a conversation
for another day, a paradox of sorts. But like
at the end of the day, like I just, I'm getting
so exhausted from seeing dollar signs everywhere.
Yeah. Yeah. So I totally agree. An orange slice
of says is Pokemon packs gambling. Cause I, you
know, collecting on Z I, my, my understanding
is, you know, maybe you did do some Marvel or
TCG, but I don't think you got. You're mostly
sports cards. Did you ever do Pokemon? Because
Pokemon is so different. There's no breaking.
The only... breaks you get into pokemon is is
ripping ships which is like doing personals but
you're just doing online with your favorite you
know person wearing a funny gengar hat or pikachu
hat and you know they fun and they talk in different
voices and you know they have personalities and
there's a there's a value to having someone rip
and ship but yeah i mean in my opinion before
i get Alyx's is Pokemon packs anything that again
i think orange slate who who wrote rng rng stands
for random number generator yes Since the beginning
of the hobby, since the beginning of sports cards
or TCG cards, we're literally talking about a
pack that has some cards in it that you do not
know what's in that pack. Whether it was cigarette,
tobacco cards, gum wrapper cards, Topps. We're
talking about the earliest of the early cards.
You did not know what you were getting. Literally,
as a consumer, Anything you buy at a grocery
store, you know what you're getting. You buy
milk, you know you're getting milk. You buy,
you know, let's not talk about the price of eggs
here, but if you buy eggs, you know you're getting
eggs. Not always. Okay. Yeah, maybe there's some
broken eggs or maybe someone stole some eggs.
No, but, you know. you're buying uncertainty
and you're hoping for something that's worth
the value of the box or more. So the random number
generator aspect of both the Pokemon and sports
cards side of the hobby, I think is, it can be
dangerous. Now there's a big difference between
a thousand dollar box, um, of prism. I'm not
even talking flawless and transcendence, which
are like five figure boxes or whatever, but,
or cases and cases. But, um, Orange Slices, if
you are literally buying one $5 pack or one Elite
Trainer Box for $60, I know some of them are
more with Prismatic and Surging Sparks and the
reprints and this and that and English versus
Japanese versus Korean and all these different
versions of Pokemon, but it's much more easy,
especially if you're a kid. If you're a kid who
gets their money or allowance from their mom
or dad and be like, hey, mom or dad, can I buy...
a 60 elite trainer box to the mom or dad that's
much more palatable and approachable and easy
than hey mom or dad can i buy that 500 box of
bowman chrome right so there's a big difference
i think what do you think Alyx uh you nailed
it i mean okay so let's let's just like define
gambling plainly right gambling is when you stake
something of value when you put money on the
table um on an outcome that's uncertain in hopes
of a reward. And by that definition, ripping
packs, whether it's Pokemon, sports cards, or
even digital collectibles is absolutely gambling.
You're putting up money. You don't know what
you're going to get. You don't know the contents
of the pack or the box. And you're hoping what's
inside is worth more or what you paid, right?
It doesn't matter if it's licensed by a card
company or wrapped in shiny foil. If the outcome
is unknown and there's a risk factor involved,
It's gambling in disguise. And manufacturers
are marketing that to children. Let's remember
that. And they have been for many, many decades
and even centuries. And here's the kicker. That
rush you feel when you open a pack, that's the
same dopamine system that's triggered by slot
machines, by the blackjack table, by roulette.
So whether it's Pokemon, sports cards, packs
at Target. you know even if it's just like two
dollar value packs it's not about the theme it's
about structure it's about the structure if you
don't know the contents of what you're paying
for the chance at something better that's gambling
period yeah you know like Denny said like you
know what you're buying when you're you're buying
uh you know a carton of eggs or even in other
hobbies like sneakers you know this is something
that um the guys over at sports card madness
uh asked me while i was when i was on um you
know how did like your sneaker collecting days
compared to sports card collecting days and the
answer is simple when i bought a pair of jordan
threes i knew i was buying a pair of jordan threes
i wasn't like buying a pair of mystery jordans
and then maybe getting like a pair of like you
know sketchers in the mail right like i knew
what i was getting right right and there was
one other thing i want to touch on sure and that's
that's gambling has been around for thousands
of years. Yeah, yeah. Right? Ancient dice games
betting on gladiators, lotteries in temples.
This is like nothing new. Yeah. and the reason
it's stuck around is simple it plays directly
into our psychology it's it's risk reward and
the illusion of control and as humans we're wired
to chase uncertain rewards for whatever whatever
reason i don't know what like why that is but
our brains light up more when we might win than
when we know we will win which is why people
are more attracted to joining breaks or buying
personals versus just buying the single that
they want from the associated product. That's
what keeps us coming back. It gives us hope.
It fuels the belief that this next one could
change everything. I can open that optic box
and hit the Jaden Daniels gold vinyl downtown
and my life will be forever different. right
gambling just it creates an illusion of control
we start to think about you know how can we beat
the odds that we have this strategy you know
that if we just play it the right way and use
logic we buy the right pack or pick the right
pack enter the right break hit the right team
we can come out ahead and for some that just
becomes super addictive not because they're weak
but because this system is literally designed
to just to keep us up so yeah i mean gambling
gambling's been around forever and it's it's
not because it's good for us but because it's
it's just something that's profitable and those
who run it um you know make it irresistible and
just you know basically mind f us into chasing
that next minute so yeah thank you for self -censoring
i i know the hobby hangout was meant to be more
kind of like you know people can curse if they
want to car diary i've been trying to keep more
kind of not family friendly, but not explicit.
So I didn't have to check that box in the podcast
when I published, but it's all good. Thank you
for all of this. I do have to try to land the
plane a little bit here. And I want to get to
some more chat. We've had quite a lively chat
and, and I do want you to kind of talk about,
you know, what, what the next steps are. Before
I do, I did want to ask you, because we just
on the whole temple and kind of like the, you
know, there have been religious organizations,
communities like, you know, it's so funny how
not funny, but it's sad that we as a society,
again, we're a white Anglo -Saxon Protestant
society still. bingo halls it's like hey bingo
bingo is safe and fun and okay but man people
can get crazy into bingo there's jackpots and
people spending money and like that's a whole
subculture i want to get into a lot of scratch
house people are okay hey um for the office you
know march madness pools like there's definitely
certain allowable amounts of gambling that we
accept as society and then of course now we have
sports books and now it's like much more of a
big you know it's big big bucks and billions
of dollars so um but when it comes to the aspect
of religion a a n a g a i think my understanding
is that there is a lot of the christianity kind
of uh um there's an aspect that ties around to
religion right gamblers anonymous you have in
front of you yeah right in front god grant me
the strength yeah or god god grant me the serenity
to accept the things i cannot change courage
to change the things i can and the wisdom to
know the difference yeah so does collectors md
do you guys have some religious uh you know kind
of uh influence or or been to it no not at all
um i'll be honest like i don't know why uh i
guess i do but like you know before every meeting
um or at the end of every meeting ga meeting
you would chant what i just uh yeah read from
the front of the yellow book and then on the
inside it says i sought my soul but could not
see i sought my god but he eluded me i sought
my brothers and sisters and found all three uh
and then you know god give me the strength i
forget the rest of it or god grant me the serenity
then you read the front but anyway like i get
it but not everybody is religious and that doesn't
necessarily resonate with every single person
and Frankly, some people might feel a little
bit intimidated by that. Or might have different
personal values or beliefs when it comes to religion.
So I don't want to get in the weeds with that.
I don't want to ruffle any feathers. I think
we have a really, really strong mission, and
it carries its weight with or without. faith
and religion if somebody comes to us and says
like you know i'd love to insert my personal
faith or religion into my personal recovery program
we'd be all ears like we wouldn't like shy away
from that but it's not something that we're like
building around or like is has become like a
core pillar of the movement got it thank you
and i i thought that was the answer but i definitely
wanted to give you the opportunity to kind of
say that in case anyone in the chat is like well
you know, it sounds like a gamblers anonymous
and I'm not, you know, I, I'm an atheist and
I don't like that stuff. Right. So I don't want
to kind of, I wanted them to know that you guys
are approachable. So I'm going to read some questions
and then we're going to talk about the meeting,
uh, that's coming up, uh, every, every, every
Wednesday night and all that. So, um, I told
myself with the hobby hanging out, I would read
every non -offensive, non -explicit, uh, comments
and orange slices. I know that snickerdoodle
crowd, uh, previously has asked me. 100 men versus
a silverback gorilla and kind of fun, silly stuff.
You know, today being kind of a more serious
subject, I won't get into all the silly stuff.
So I'm just going to read it. He asks, do you
think they should change the Brawl Stars ring
system? My understanding is Brawl Stars is a
supercell mobile game. I have played it in the
past. I do not currently play it. I do not play
Clash Royale, Clash of Clans. Have I in the past?
Have I been addicted to them in the past? I mean,
this is the first time I've ever actually even
said that out loud. said it in public but i mean
those games are meant to be addictive and i used
to be addicted to them i'm not now and i'm really
happy to say that but If there's a way to responsibly
play those addictive games, then, hey, more power
to you. But I do not have a response to that.
So maybe that was a good way, a good reason for
me to kind of ask that or read that question
out loud. But we're going to move on to Brandon,
who says this is awesome content. Denny, can
I just touch on that really, really quickly?
Brawl Stars Ring System. Here we go, Alyx. I
don't know that game. I actually have never heard
of it. But what I did want to talk about or what
I did want to quickly... caveat is that collectors
md isn't just about cards you know this kind
of compulsive behavior shows up across all hobbies
uh that's something i've mentioned throughout
uh the live here tonight um you know where anywhere
where money dopamine and identity kind of get
wrapped together and that definitely includes
gaming like gaming as a matter of fact might
end up becoming like the At the forefront of
what we're doing here, whether it's like loot
boxes or like micro transactions, there's like
in -game skins and aesthetics. So many modern
games are built on this same slot machine mechanics
we see in pack ripping. And it's the same dopamine
rush, the same chase, the same risk reward cycle.
And for some people, it's just as damaging. So
especially for kids like they're there. Oh, my
gosh. predatory honestly uh the the adult male
brain doesn't fully form until age 22 or something
like that or even even older what's what's mind
-boggling is that like you know the more and
more we talk about this the more and more animated
and passionate and to some extent frustrated
i get that this it's taken so long for people
to have a conversation about this yeah yeah So
I just want to briefly say that I earlier said
that I loved what you said about when hype is
your compass. I said that we will talk about
that in a moment. We just don't have enough time
to kind of delve into that. We're already longer
than I thought we would be. Again, thank you
for your time here. And I definitely want you
to kind of shout out the next meetings and all
that. Brandon, speaking about the being talked
about more, he says this is awesome content,
something that needs to be talked about more
in the hobby. Imagine if every top content creator
was encouraging responsibility in the hobby,
it would send shockwaves. man Brandon great point
it's just that there's so much money that and
people are happy and they're happy as pigs and
they don't want to send any pigs to slaughter.
I mean, it's just hard. I mean, I think I can
speak on stuff like this because no one, no one
controls my content or my voice in the hobby.
It's just much as I work with hobby companies,
I don't work for hobby companies. And so I think
it's, I'm able to do things like that, but I
mean, you know, collector, you know, Alyx, you
said bingo and all that. Thanks for saying it.
and then we have here brandon oh j2 says man
i would drive to four different stores looking
for buying cards wow i mean j2 i i i don't i've
never met you in person but i've seen your content
and i know you uh you're a great supporter of
mine um you know i I get that feeling. And, you
know, let's talk separately, but it's, it's,
you know, it doesn't mean that you're like a
compulsive gambling addict. It's just, I know
that desire to find, it's almost like scratching
an itch. It's like, wait, if this store is out,
if I just go to the next one, surely they have
something. So I get it. So thank you for sharing
that with me. There's a lot of people are being
very kind of open here and I love it. Even though
this is not. you know, a collector's empty meeting.
Brandon says there's a weird feeling of accomplishment
that comes along with breaking the card versus
buying a single for me, man. I hear that. Yeah.
I've worked on it and forced myself to get the
single. Yeah. Either you force yourself or a
loved one forces you yourself or your wallet
forces yourself. I mean, that's the way I think
I see it. And Brandon says it's helped for sure.
And Ziggy, Ziggy. Oh, man. Here we go. First
step in addiction is to admitting you have a
problem. One of the steps is accepting your humanity.
Well said. Most programs leverage a belief in
a higher power that goes to the whole religious
aspect. If addicted, you need to remove yourself.
i mean ziggy i i have such a you know you say
some amazing things in here and i really appreciate
your input um it's like you have different versions
yourself you're there's like this wonderful version
of yourself in this uh live chat and then there's
the social media part where i remember you talking
about maybe we shouldn't have kids in the hobby
i mean ziggy in my one of my content pieces where
i make him deal with a kid was like this is i
forget what he said but like i i was like i don't
think he's trolling me but it was like you know
i would never do that or this is that was awkward
and i'm like i kids like me and i i have kids
on my own and i i know what it's like to be in
a kid in the hobby and so i try to be nice to
them but um you know, he asked me, we shouldn't
have kids in hobby. I say we should. It's just,
it's hard when even the kids themselves, there
are affordable price points, you know, there's
retail and there's NBA hoops and top series one.
It's just that the kids don't want top series
one. They want flawless. They want transcendence.
They want top triple threads. They want the big
shiny, just like adults do. So Ziggy says polarizing.
I mean, yeah, man, totally. So I think. yeah
i met ziggy uh when i was on the real card show
with uh valor and uh cage Oh, yeah. He came on
and chatted with us. He's the man. Nice. Yes.
Yes. So thank you, Ziggy, for being in the chat.
He said I wouldn't. And he is a breaker. I mean,
he well, he owns a break. I mean, I won't get
into all this stuff, but he's he's out there
known to be part of the breaking culture. And
for him to say that is big. I mean, that's really
nice. Ziggy says I wouldn't do deals for hundreds
of dollars with a kid without a parent. I he
was he actually he was on camera, but his dad
was there and his dad is actually a good, decent
person. Someone who actually replaced wax that
was stolen from me from, you know, in that video
is coming out tomorrow. I have done editing it.
But Friday night, May 2nd, Orioles versus Royals
at Camden Yards. I made a joke about getting
a case of Tufts Transcendence stolen from me
that I was going to donate to a pack of Cub Scouts.
I mean, clearly I'm not donating $20 ,000 box
to. Eight -year -olds, that's silly. That's funny.
I thought it was funny because it sounds so ludicrous.
But did I actually get a box of 2024 Bowman stolen
from me as I was creating content in Canon Yards?
Yes, that actually did occur. And Jeff, shout
out to Jeff. He, as the store owner, replaced
that wax by giving me, gifting me a box from
his shop, from his hardware shop. He's not an
LCS owner. He's a hardware store guy. But he
made it right. to uh but shout out to you jeff
i don't know if you're watching this or if you'll
watch it later but happy belated birthday for
you to do that on your actual birthday yesterday
at the um silver springs civic center uh middle
at a car show was really big of you but that
was his kid ziggy just so you know and ziggy
does say i'm a fan i'm a critical i appreciate
your dialogue i mean you know what i appreciate
that there's there's there's a lot to be said
about communication dialogue just talking to
each other you know we can't just be so polarized
and so upset that we stop talking and i think
that's that's a big thing i think collectors
on these trying to do is they're not judgmental
they're not there to criticize they are there
to listen and they are there for dialogue right
right Alyx yeah nailed it Is that a good segue
to telling us all about your weekly meetings?
Because I attended the first one and I was there
to support because I know some people, they put
you on the, you know, nothing against sport,
part of madness, but they had you on as guests.
I mean, they weren't there at the meeting. I
mean, some people have you on and it's, you know,
it's onto the next thing, but I did want to be
not a man of my word because I. promise that
i'll be there but yeah um you know i i was talking
with you and i was very curious and i definitely
wanted to be there and i wanted to see what was
about and you know it wasn't the most attended
i won't say what the number was but it wasn't
i i was wondering if it was going to be kind
of like a low number just because of the whole
the shame the denial the you know to themselves
and sometimes people who go to aa were interventions
forced or coerced or or violent uh voluntold
by their fam friends and family ultimatums i'm
gonna divorce you if you don't get your alcohol
uh your alcoholism in check i'm gonna divorce
you know I feel like people may join Collectors MD
more if their spouse was like, and let's be real,
it's a wife to a husband. Hey, I'm going to divorce
you if you don't get your gamble, if you don't
get your sports card collection, hobby, breaking,
the credit card bills and all of this. If you
don't get that in check, I'm going to leave you.
So, I mean, yeah, I think much as the first meeting
was not well attended, and I'm not going to attend
every single one. I wish you the best of luck
and I hope that it's just a start because I know
how hard it is to start from zero. So yeah, no,
I appreciate that. Well, first of all, Denny,
thank you so much for having me on. This has
been an awesome 90 minutes of just, you know,
talking about really, really important things
that matter that I I'm passionate about and clearly
you are too. So your support is. I'm so grateful
that you're just giving me a platform and a stage
to talk about this. As far as our meetings, thank
you for joining as well. Our weekly peer support
meetings are one of the most important parts
of what we're doing at Collectors MD. And I'll
be real, like you said, the attendance was super
low in that first meeting. I'm not afraid to
say the number. I think the total was five of
us, maybe six. And that's kind of what I expected,
if I'm being honest. And that's okay. We're not
discouraged. We do want to talk about why that
might be happening or how we can potentially
get more people involved. And the truth is, showing
up... To say something like you said just isn't
easy. It takes a lot to admit that maybe you're
collecting habits or getting out of hand. Denial
is strong. We talked about that at a great length.
It tells you you're fine. You don't need to do
this. This is for people with real problems.
But the reality, if you have even thought about
joining one of these meetings, that's probably
your gut telling you something. And here's the
thing. These meetings aren't therapy. They're
not lectures. They're just honest, judgment -free
spaces to share, listen, and connect with others
who get it. Whether you're spending too much,
hiding purchases, feeling burnt out, or just
questioning your relationship with the hobby
or your collecting habits, this is your place
to unpack all of that. No shame, no pressure.
You can just show up and listen. You don't even
have to put your camera on. I do ask that, at
the very least, you just put in your initials
or your first name. the uh first letter of your
your last name but um you don't have to participate
you don't have to talk you could literally just
join and listen the hardest part is getting past
that first hump pushing through that denial the
hesitation the pride but once you're in the room
i'm telling you it will click because the same
thing happened when i started to go to ga meetings
for the first time you realize you're not alone
you're not broken and you don't have to carry
all of this in silence there are other people
out there just like you, who care, who want to
help you get through this. Again, this is a community.
We want to do this as a team. This isn't just
me leading the way. This is a group effort through
and through. So if you've been on the fence and
you're interested in checking it out, our next
meeting is this Wednesday, this coming Wednesday
night, which is, I believe, May 7th at 8 p .m.
Eastern. All that is asked is that you fill out
a basically like a screening form, just answering
a few questions and putting in your email so
that I can add you to the invite. Again, there's
no spotlight. There's no pressure, just a space
to breathe, reflect, and maybe start seeing things
a little bit more clearly. And it's free, right?
Just to be clear. And it's free. i i do want
to caveat one other thing with it um we just
released our official collectors md recovery
journal a recovery guide uh it's live on the
website when you go to collectorsmd .com it's
at the top it says recovery guide it's live it's
free and it's already become a core tool for
uh folks navigating compulsive collecting and
it's uh kind of our version of again the yellow
book uh that we use in ga but really tailored
for collecting in this community. So if you just
want to check that out, all the information is
there. If you have questions, feel free to reach
out. You can email, DM. I'm more than happy to
just have a conversation. If you are hesitant
about just joining the meeting, we could just
talk. Yeah. Okay, so this is why I shouldn't
be a pilot because I would be terrible at landing
planes. So Reddit story says I have a gambling
addiction. And so, I mean, you know, that's a
serious thing. I thank you for sharing that.
Even if it's an anonymous account, like, you
know, I hope you do go to collectorsmd .com.
I know the answer to this next one. He says,
Uncle Lester Cam says, will he sell our information
if we fill out a form? I know the answer is no,
but I'm going to let Alyx answer that. Sorry,
what was the question? Will we sell our information
if we fill out a form? No, we'll not sell your
information. If you would like to read our privacy
policy, that's on the website as well. If you
scroll all the way down to the bottom, you'll
see all the information that will protect your...
privacy and your information. Okay. Thank you.
Just to clear that. Uncle Esther, he said something
else I'm not going to read out loud because it's
a minorly offensive, but he does say - I can
answer that. Go ahead. I'm not in a dorm room.
This is actually my home office. My wife insisted
we stick a bed in here because we needed an extra
guest room. And this is my little curated collection
in the back. So I actually take that as a compliment.
would like to consider this a little bit of a
man cave i got some memorabilia hanging on the
wall and stuff but uh i appreciate that you know
it's nice that he said i apologize and says i
thought he was a college student now he is uh
35 36 what you said i'm 35 yeah wow how flattering
college student i would love to be in college
that's awesome to penn state so there you go
we we are We are, baby. Uncle Les says, hi, Tonto.
Tonto says, what's up, guys? We are going to
end this very soon. He says, you're always one
bet away from getting even. I mean, that is definitely
the gambler's mentality. It's what is it like?
You're just you're one step. You are one swing
away from just. hitting the the the jackpot right
or one one slot machine pull away from just you
know you left it you left it for the next person
and oh my god you know that's that's such a what
is it called like the gambler's fallacy maybe
you know it's just real real quick i remember
buying i think it was like five fat packs of
optic football a couple years ago from target
and as i was i was 100 sure i purchased five
of them As I was walking to the car, I somehow
managed to lose one of them. I don't know if
I dropped it or if I left it at the cash register,
but I ended up with four fat packs when I got
home. And I opened them. They were all duds.
And for the longest time, my mind just kept telling
me that there was a downtown in that pack. Yeah,
yeah. It's the exact same thing. It's your mind
playing tricks on you. absolutely it's it's not
realistic it's not thinking logically and that's
what you have to realize that's just what you
have to accept right absolutely and um r gordon
here says i am an addict too i mean really just
even typing that saying that out loud just Just
really, I mean, that's big. That's the first
step. And so our Gordon, whoever you are, like,
thank you. Thank you for putting that in the
chat. I mean, really, really fantastic. I applaud
you for, again, just having the thought in your
mind. and then having that thought go to your
fingers and to tap that out onto the screen or
the keyboard like thank you so much and brandon
great i mean he's like the mvp of this chat i
think he says what player and where did you drop
it oh my gosh brandon he might he says he might
have to go scour the parking lot what what player
it was uh maybe it was cj stroud or i don't know
a parking lot yeah it's it's long gone i mean
The full circle would be a young, healthy, and
happy 12 -year -old collector found it, opened
it, and is cherishing that downtown for the rest
of their life. What a silly farce. Your mind
goes in so many directions, and you just have
to be able to take a deep breath and collect
yourself. No pun intended. Call somebody. Reach
out. But like, I want to piggyback off what you
said, like our Gordon just saying there, you
know, I am an addict to like, that is so brave
and powerful and it takes so much, you know,
resilience to come to terms with that and not
just say it to yourself, but to admit it in a
public forum. So, you know, really, really appreciate
you for saying that. And we're here for you or
garden or Gordon. If you want to reach out, please
DM me. Collectors MD. We can get on a call tomorrow.
We could talk about what you're going through,
and we could talk about ways to help put you
in the right direction. Thank you. That's a great
way to end. The box that was stolen from me,
in my head, I kept thinking, what if there was
a super fractor in there? I got so upset, and
I didn't even get to open up the box. Of course,
my hope is that the box that Jeff... hardware
owner gifted me is the one that does have it
but again it's all rng random number generator
just you know my friend was like hey what if
the person who who stole it they it was a kid
and they Not that they're down on their luck,
but yeah, what if they were meant to just kind
of enjoy it? So just all good. Uncle Lester Kim
says, terrific life. Thank you guys so much for
being here. At one point, I think we had about
a dozen people in the chat. You guys were really,
really like, I mean, sometimes the hobby hangout
can get kind of silly, but you guys gave this
entire time, almost over an hour and a half,
the gravitas and the sincerity. sincerity that
it deserves. So Alyx, much applause to you for
doing what you're doing. The chat, you guys are
excellent. This is why I love doing this live.
The chat really provides a great value to the
proceedings. And so this is where I will finally
land the plane. It almost ran out of fuel flying
in the air, hovering around the airspace. But
Alyx, 30 second final words. Denny, thank you
so much again. Truly, this has been so powerful
and impactful. I think not just for me, but for
everybody who's been watching. If you're rewatching
this and you want to reach out and have a discussion
about anything, even if it's not you, if you
know somebody, if you have a loved one who might
be in a crisis, please reach out. Of course,
we are not licensed medical. doctors or therapists
so if you are truly in crisis mode please call
a crisis line please reach out to a licensed
mental health professional but if you just want
to have a conversation we're here for you Thank
you so much, Alyx. And Uncle Lester says, I like
going on eBay and just low -balling offers to
people. Man, I'm telling you, that's a great
way to participate in the hobby. And people may
get upset at you, but hey, someone might take
it. Someone might want to just get rid of a card,
but there's many different ways. And I don't
think it's trolling. It's just, hey, you just
never know. And some people highball, right?
I mean, there are offers on eBay that are like
astronomically high. So anyway, that's a good
way to end the live. Alyx, thank you so much
for your time. Chat, you guys are actually -
Absolutely awesome. And I don't like when people
say chat because it's the whole breaker vocabulary.
But it works here, and you guys are excellent.
And remember, breakers are not – if they have
your number and they text you saying, hey, how's
it going? Are you doing anything? Are you busy?
Can you jump in this live? They're not doing
that out of the goodness of their heart. They
want you to set the floor for their break. The
same thing as having a VIP host on DraftKings.
Exactly. Yeah, that's a sign. It really is, guys.
So just keep that in mind. So thank you so much,
everyone. I'm going to end the stream here and
hope you guys have a great week in the hobby.
Take care. Until the next time in the Hobby Hangout
and the Car Diary by Hobby S. Thompson. Thank
you so much.