WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.580 Have you been following all of the little nuggets? 00:00:03.740 --> 00:00:08.480 What are your thoughts with Scoobble, with Framber 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:12.740 Valdez? Are you feeling a little better? I'm 00:00:12.740 --> 00:00:14.660 feeling a lot better. And yes, I've been paying 00:00:14.660 --> 00:00:16.620 attention and I wouldn't say these are small 00:00:16.620 --> 00:00:19.559 nuggets chat. I'd say these are major implications 00:00:19.559 --> 00:00:22.339 for our Detroit Tigers heading into the 2026 00:00:22.339 --> 00:00:24.760 season. There's a little tongue in cheek. Yes, 00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:27.859 the scubal arbitration hearing went exactly as 00:00:27.859 --> 00:00:30.199 we thought it would. I love the fact that he 00:00:30.199 --> 00:00:33.380 got what was deservedly so his. I don't think 00:00:33.380 --> 00:00:36.600 it bodes well for baseball in 2027 and the lockout. 00:00:37.020 --> 00:00:39.820 That will be another podcast. I think the bigger 00:00:39.820 --> 00:00:42.100 headline for me, though, is the Tigers signal 00:00:42.100 --> 00:00:45.460 to me with the Valdez signing that they are not 00:00:45.460 --> 00:00:47.399 a small market team, not a mid -market team, 00:00:47.439 --> 00:00:50.619 but they are going to go all in and they have, 00:00:50.840 --> 00:00:54.409 I think, a one -two punch of left -handed pitchers 00:00:54.409 --> 00:00:57.149 that is as formidable as anything that you are 00:00:57.149 --> 00:01:01.890 going to see in the American League. You're listening 00:01:01.890 --> 00:01:05.849 to The Litterbox, a Detroit Tigers podcast with 00:01:05.849 --> 00:01:12.670 your hosts Chet West and Bill Patterson. Hello, 00:01:12.769 --> 00:01:16.530 Litterbox listeners, Detroit Tigers fans. Welcome 00:01:16.530 --> 00:01:19.500 back. to Litterbox, a Detroit Tigers podcast. 00:01:19.719 --> 00:01:22.700 We are so happy to be back with you for the 2026 00:01:22.700 --> 00:01:26.760 season. And what a way to start things off today 00:01:26.760 --> 00:01:30.299 on our show. We have a lot to cover for you. 00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:33.739 We'll be talking about the scubal arbitration 00:01:33.739 --> 00:01:37.700 result, the Framber Valdez signing. What does 00:01:37.700 --> 00:01:40.120 it signal? What does it mean? Do the Tigers keep 00:01:40.120 --> 00:01:42.920 scubal after all? Maybe give our thoughts on 00:01:42.920 --> 00:01:46.239 the WBC and then maybe it's effect on the players 00:01:46.239 --> 00:01:49.200 and we'll throw a few key dates at you for spring 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:52.420 to get you prepared for this spring training 00:01:52.420 --> 00:01:55.420 that is about to happen in the next week is about 00:01:55.420 --> 00:01:58.459 to begin in the next week. Bill, welcome back. 00:01:58.700 --> 00:02:00.739 It's been a long winter. It's been a long winter 00:02:00.739 --> 00:02:02.959 and it's great to be back in Minneapolis and 00:02:02.959 --> 00:02:04.859 Chicago. I think we've had three straight weeks 00:02:04.859 --> 00:02:09.259 of sub freezing weather, so I cannot wait for 00:02:09.259 --> 00:02:12.379 the most magical words. outside of Let's Play 00:02:12.379 --> 00:02:15.000 Ball, which would be pictures and catchers reporting 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:18.419 February 11th. Next Wednesday. It got over 38 00:02:18.419 --> 00:02:20.900 degrees here in the Twin Cities the other day, 00:02:21.159 --> 00:02:24.599 and it's been an eventful winter here, and it 00:02:24.599 --> 00:02:27.439 was a joyous occasion just to see some sunshine 00:02:27.439 --> 00:02:29.939 and some warmth in the air. With 38 degrees and 00:02:29.939 --> 00:02:31.939 it's warm in the air, you know you've got some 00:02:31.939 --> 00:02:34.300 issues. Almost put on my bathing suit and waddled 00:02:34.300 --> 00:02:36.659 outside into the backyard and just took in the 00:02:36.659 --> 00:02:40.400 rays. We got some stuff solved. Over the past 00:02:40.400 --> 00:02:42.580 week, Bill, I know a lot of Tigers fans have 00:02:42.580 --> 00:02:44.340 been sitting around all season long wondering, 00:02:44.939 --> 00:02:47.699 when are we going to get some answers to this 00:02:47.699 --> 00:02:51.219 puzzle that will be the 2026 Tigers? Inside of 00:02:51.219 --> 00:02:55.159 a 24 hour period, more happened in regard to 00:02:55.159 --> 00:02:57.840 answers than we've seen in quite some time. Let's 00:02:57.840 --> 00:03:01.539 start off with the Scubal Arb result. Do you 00:03:01.539 --> 00:03:05.680 have thoughts? I think that Tarek Scubal should 00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:08.189 be paid. That that amount of money. I know it's 00:03:08.189 --> 00:03:10.750 an obscene amount of money for the regular world 00:03:10.750 --> 00:03:12.990 But for baseball coming off the two seasons, 00:03:12.990 --> 00:03:16.469 he's had back -to -back Cy Young's the most dominant 00:03:16.469 --> 00:03:18.909 pitcher in the American League I think the Tigers 00:03:18.909 --> 00:03:22.810 made a I guess Somewhat decent offer. It would 00:03:22.810 --> 00:03:25.349 have been nice to have avoided arbitration But 00:03:25.349 --> 00:03:28.810 everything that I've heard post arbitration and 00:03:28.810 --> 00:03:31.590 read from Tarek scoobles camp is it doesn't sound 00:03:31.590 --> 00:03:33.409 like there's hard feelings I think he's happy. 00:03:33.409 --> 00:03:35.960 I think he's gonna be motivated and you teased 00:03:35.960 --> 00:03:38.340 this a little bit. Do we think the Tigers trade 00:03:38.340 --> 00:03:40.759 him? And at this point, I don't think so, Chet. 00:03:40.900 --> 00:03:44.080 I think you roll with that one -two punch of 00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:47.159 he and Valdez. And as I said in the intro, you 00:03:47.159 --> 00:03:50.759 have the top two left -handed pitchers in the 00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:54.419 American League. You can go up against any franchise. 00:03:54.620 --> 00:03:58.120 And I like their chances up until they play, 00:03:58.120 --> 00:04:00.219 you know, either the Phillies, the Mets or the 00:04:00.219 --> 00:04:03.479 Dodgers. Sure. Sure. I think it says a lot, right? 00:04:03.659 --> 00:04:06.000 You've got... a really good one -two punch, and 00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:08.020 we'll talk about Framber here in just a second, 00:04:08.080 --> 00:04:11.699 but I guess I'm split on the Arb case. It was 00:04:11.699 --> 00:04:14.599 a monumental decision. I mean, this is historic. 00:04:15.340 --> 00:04:19.579 The highest ever awarded. Yes. And a chunk over 00:04:19.579 --> 00:04:23.079 what Juan Soto got, but also this sets the stage 00:04:23.079 --> 00:04:25.959 for the CBA and the negotiations. I mean, I don't 00:04:25.959 --> 00:04:29.240 know if you know this or not, but the Players 00:04:29.240 --> 00:04:32.250 Union brought Bruce Mayer in. Bruce Meyer is 00:04:32.250 --> 00:04:34.910 the lead chief litigator for the MLBPA. So he 00:04:34.910 --> 00:04:38.370 was brought into this ARB hearing, which is, 00:04:38.389 --> 00:04:41.829 you know, I can see why it's a big deal. It's 00:04:41.829 --> 00:04:45.430 monumental. Yeah, exactly. So he's the chief 00:04:45.430 --> 00:04:47.610 litigator and he's kind of in charge of all that, 00:04:47.610 --> 00:04:50.569 you know, the player negotiation stuff from a 00:04:50.569 --> 00:04:52.829 contractual side, from the money side of things. 00:04:53.009 --> 00:04:55.149 Tony Clark's president, but then he's the guy 00:04:55.149 --> 00:04:57.350 that makes the business run right. And he was 00:04:57.350 --> 00:05:00.110 there. Apparently Scoobal brought his two Cy 00:05:00.110 --> 00:05:02.250 Youngs with him, a la Tim Lintzikum, from a few 00:05:02.250 --> 00:05:04.829 seasons past. Didn't have to pull them out, but 00:05:04.829 --> 00:05:08.410 had them there as firepower. I mean, these ARB 00:05:08.410 --> 00:05:10.350 cases are like, you know, each team kind of presents 00:05:10.350 --> 00:05:14.329 their case, and then you have backup and supporting 00:05:14.329 --> 00:05:16.730 people that may show up to kind of support one 00:05:16.730 --> 00:05:19.290 side or the other. And I think the two Cy Youngs 00:05:19.290 --> 00:05:23.889 were Scoobal's support. But I think this does... 00:05:23.899 --> 00:05:26.680 If I'm reading the tea leaves here, our CBA and 00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:30.240 the negotiations for that and the impending lockout, 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:32.519 I think is going to be brutal for baseball fans. 00:05:34.019 --> 00:05:37.060 Absolutely. It did irreparable damage to the 00:05:37.060 --> 00:05:40.560 two sides coming together any time. Yeah. Immediately. 00:05:41.139 --> 00:05:44.800 Did you know that two of the three arbiters were 00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:47.660 also present for the Soto case? So there was 00:05:47.660 --> 00:05:51.279 only one new person, which I found a little curious 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:53.500 to say the least. But moving from that, Chet, 00:05:54.180 --> 00:05:56.899 This is going to put Tony Clark and the Players 00:05:56.899 --> 00:06:01.540 Association and the owners complete at odds. 00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:06.819 And again, I had a lengthy discussion Thursday 00:06:06.819 --> 00:06:09.379 night with three neighbors. So I'm going to give 00:06:09.379 --> 00:06:11.279 a shout out to them now because they do listen. 00:06:11.420 --> 00:06:14.819 And we've come to the conclusion that the luxury 00:06:14.819 --> 00:06:17.160 tax obviously isn't as effective as it could 00:06:17.160 --> 00:06:20.779 be. You know, some teams are allergic to it, 00:06:20.779 --> 00:06:24.129 looking at you Chicago Cubs. Yeah. other teams, 00:06:24.329 --> 00:06:26.370 you know, like the Tigers, you know, have a target 00:06:26.370 --> 00:06:29.350 or a budget in mind and hold to that, but they 00:06:29.350 --> 00:06:32.829 completely rocked my opinion of the franchise 00:06:32.829 --> 00:06:34.910 to the positive with this Valdez signing. Within 00:06:34.910 --> 00:06:39.129 24 hours. Literally, my entire world changed. 00:06:39.329 --> 00:06:41.230 I mean, if you follow Reddit, Twitter, whatever, 00:06:41.269 --> 00:06:44.670 Tigers, on any of the social media outlets, everybody's 00:06:44.670 --> 00:06:47.589 done a 180 to a degree. Exactly, exactly. They 00:06:47.589 --> 00:06:49.810 showed me that they're serious about running 00:06:49.810 --> 00:06:53.550 the baseball operations, and it... I did a 180 00:06:53.550 --> 00:06:56.350 on Chris Illich. I have not gone out to Little 00:06:56.350 --> 00:06:58.389 Caesar's, but I did say that I would pick up 00:06:58.389 --> 00:07:01.949 a couple pies. You should buy a pizza in appreciation. 00:07:02.230 --> 00:07:04.649 Maybe it's our first food review of the season, 00:07:04.970 --> 00:07:07.290 Bill. Maybe this is what we have to get on here. 00:07:07.649 --> 00:07:08.990 I haven't had Little Caesar's pizza in a little 00:07:08.990 --> 00:07:11.069 while. Yeah, maybe I'll get like, I think they're 00:07:11.069 --> 00:07:13.129 doing like deep dish and sticks or something 00:07:13.129 --> 00:07:15.930 like that. It's like a new promo. So I'll get... 00:07:15.959 --> 00:07:19.120 I won't go, you know, the original bestest mostest 00:07:19.120 --> 00:07:22.360 or, you know, the crazy bread, all the usual 00:07:22.360 --> 00:07:24.899 suspects. I'll get the new items and I'll review 00:07:24.899 --> 00:07:27.660 them for you. They deserve to have a pizza but 00:07:27.660 --> 00:07:30.819 on the behalf of them signing the big deal. But 00:07:30.819 --> 00:07:33.920 let's back to Scoobble just for a second. Don't 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:35.860 you think they should have like a Scoobble special 00:07:35.860 --> 00:07:39.509 pizza? Oh my gosh. Why wouldn't they? Hello help 00:07:39.509 --> 00:07:43.470 us pay for Tarex jalapenos banana peppers and 00:07:43.470 --> 00:07:45.689 pepperoni or something like that, you know spicy 00:07:45.689 --> 00:07:48.750 So one of the aspects of this I learned about 00:07:48.750 --> 00:07:51.089 and listening to various podcasts I'll give like 00:07:51.089 --> 00:07:53.230 a shout out to baseball barbecues because I'm 00:07:53.230 --> 00:07:55.310 stealing a lot of the info that they Basically 00:07:55.310 --> 00:07:57.189 passed along there. They're good. They're good 00:07:57.189 --> 00:07:58.569 outlet there. Those guys know what they're talking 00:07:58.569 --> 00:08:02.250 about They do I mean Major League Baseball does 00:08:02.250 --> 00:08:06.959 have like a player contract You know pricing 00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:10.800 arm the the league has a group that suggests 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:13.480 Here's what a player should make this is what 00:08:13.480 --> 00:08:15.540 we should be offering in a negotiation And I 00:08:15.540 --> 00:08:18.139 think arbitration is far different than just 00:08:18.139 --> 00:08:21.579 signing a free agent. Okay, or or extending somebody 00:08:21.579 --> 00:08:24.279 It's a different process. You're setting precedent 00:08:24.279 --> 00:08:27.199 with it. And so they're gonna argue, you know, 00:08:27.240 --> 00:08:30.939 we can't go We don't want to break the Dane system 00:08:30.939 --> 00:08:33.240 ourselves. Like let's let's make the players 00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:36.019 force it to break for us, right? So they're going 00:08:36.019 --> 00:08:38.120 to go in there as low as they can. And I don't 00:08:38.120 --> 00:08:40.759 know how much the Tigers were influenced by that 00:08:40.759 --> 00:08:43.059 arm of the league, but the teams can do what 00:08:43.059 --> 00:08:45.980 they want, but they are going to go seek influence. 00:08:46.120 --> 00:08:48.519 They're going to go seek some opinions. So maybe 00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:51.039 they took the opinions of the league and took 00:08:51.039 --> 00:08:54.620 them to heart and went in real low. And it sounds 00:08:54.620 --> 00:08:56.659 to me like after that happened, there was no 00:08:56.659 --> 00:08:59.460 negotiation at the table. They, the Boris group 00:08:59.460 --> 00:09:02.500 said, Nope, we're going for the full Monte here. 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:07.299 32 mil and that's that and Clearly the Boris 00:09:07.299 --> 00:09:09.700 group is right. So going back to my neighbor 00:09:09.700 --> 00:09:13.799 going back to my neighbors the other night Again, 00:09:13.879 --> 00:09:15.940 we don't think the luxury tax or the salary cap 00:09:15.940 --> 00:09:18.740 is gonna solve issues because as you just mentioned 00:09:18.740 --> 00:09:21.730 so much of this is already in place How does, 00:09:21.750 --> 00:09:24.250 I guess you'd have to institute a floor to motivate 00:09:24.250 --> 00:09:27.769 the Marlins or the Bob McNulty - This is a very 00:09:27.769 --> 00:09:30.190 simple result to this whole thing, and that's 00:09:30.190 --> 00:09:32.230 a ceiling. You put a cap out there, you put a 00:09:32.230 --> 00:09:34.769 floor out there. Yeah. That's the negotiation 00:09:34.769 --> 00:09:38.529 right there. Okay. The bigger issue the neighbors 00:09:38.529 --> 00:09:42.610 and I came up with is television, and everybody 00:09:42.610 --> 00:09:45.169 at the table the other night subscribes to the 00:09:45.169 --> 00:09:47.789 Major League Baseball package. We are fortunate 00:09:47.789 --> 00:09:49.889 enough to live in a town that has two major league 00:09:49.889 --> 00:09:52.169 baseball teams. One of my buddies is a Dodger 00:09:52.169 --> 00:09:54.570 fan. One of my buddies is a Braves fan. They 00:09:54.570 --> 00:09:57.590 grew up in Atlanta and LA respectively. The other 00:09:57.590 --> 00:10:01.509 is a Cincinnati Reds fan. And what infuriates 00:10:01.509 --> 00:10:05.059 us... I've mentioned it before is you can subscribe 00:10:05.059 --> 00:10:08.679 out of market But then when the teams play in 00:10:08.679 --> 00:10:11.519 market you are being asked to get the marquee 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:13.919 network for say the Reds play the Cubs Braves 00:10:13.919 --> 00:10:16.480 play the Cubs get the Auxiliary package or whatever 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:19.139 you have to get Chicago sports Yeah, even worse 00:10:19.139 --> 00:10:21.799 for the whites just so you can watch six games 00:10:21.799 --> 00:10:24.639 a season or whatever Yeah, so I think the bigger 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:28.340 negotiation upcoming chat in if baseball really 00:10:28.340 --> 00:10:32.460 wants to solve this issue they meaning This disagreement 00:10:32.460 --> 00:10:35.299 between players, the Scott Boris camp and the 00:10:35.299 --> 00:10:37.320 owners. The owners have to come together, buy 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:40.379 out the yes network, buy out L .A. Sports Net, 00:10:40.799 --> 00:10:44.460 buy out the marquee network, and they need to 00:10:44.460 --> 00:10:47.500 institute not what the NFL has because the NFL 00:10:47.500 --> 00:10:50.740 is printing money, but they need to make it more 00:10:50.740 --> 00:10:53.720 worth our while in terms of selling the Major 00:10:53.720 --> 00:10:55.940 League Baseball package. It's just about another 00:10:55.940 --> 00:10:58.659 product, right, for the fans. I mean, give us. 00:10:58.840 --> 00:11:01.820 Give us a pipeline to this like give us an easy 00:11:01.820 --> 00:11:05.720 way to watch your games and no more roku friday 00:11:05.720 --> 00:11:10.740 night apple tv Uh at 11 10 on a sunday morning 00:11:10.740 --> 00:11:13.399 when the nfl started this stuff, too I mean, 00:11:13.539 --> 00:11:16.600 I gotta get a paramount plus plus. Yes. Yes. 00:11:16.600 --> 00:11:20.299 Yes. Yes subscription So I I think outside of 00:11:20.299 --> 00:11:22.940 the finances for our listeners the big thing 00:11:22.940 --> 00:11:25.539 to look at is what they decide to do regarding 00:11:25.539 --> 00:11:29.009 media rights and For whatever reason, let's say 00:11:29.009 --> 00:11:32.129 the owners and players do come to some type of 00:11:32.129 --> 00:11:35.529 agreement on a floor, a ceiling, whatever, they 00:11:35.529 --> 00:11:37.929 update the luxury tax. They create different 00:11:37.929 --> 00:11:41.669 slotting systems. They, you know, maybe don't 00:11:41.669 --> 00:11:44.809 have as much service time until, you know, the 00:11:44.809 --> 00:11:47.169 players get more control. If the media rights 00:11:47.169 --> 00:11:50.450 doesn't get resolved, I think baseball is really 00:11:50.450 --> 00:11:53.659 in a world to hurt. And that is really what I'm 00:11:53.659 --> 00:11:56.320 focused on going forward. It will. It'll get 00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:58.500 solved. They're going to figure something out. 00:11:58.580 --> 00:12:00.679 I don't know how messy it's going to be with 00:12:00.679 --> 00:12:04.580 the Yes Network and the West Coast teams. It'll 00:12:04.580 --> 00:12:07.080 eventually be a piece of this whole puzzle more 00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:09.539 than likely. Bill, let's shift gears here real 00:12:09.539 --> 00:12:12.460 quick to something maybe a little more positive. 00:12:12.899 --> 00:12:16.639 Framber Valdez. News was announced on the eve 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:19.779 of the arbitration hearing that the Tigers were 00:12:19.779 --> 00:12:22.659 no longer cheap. And we're going to go spend 00:12:22.659 --> 00:12:26.360 a bunch of money to the tune of 115 million for 00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:28.700 Vrambar Valdez over three years. Do you have 00:12:28.700 --> 00:12:31.740 thoughts on this little nugget? Absolutely love 00:12:31.740 --> 00:12:34.840 it. And I was one that was very upset after the 00:12:34.840 --> 00:12:39.480 Reds signed Eugenio Suarez to one year and basically 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:42.139 like an Alex Cobb type contract. Even though 00:12:42.139 --> 00:12:44.639 he strikes out a ton, his best days might be 00:12:44.960 --> 00:12:47.600 Behind him. I was also upset when the Mets signed 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:49.740 Bo Bichette and that the Tigers were nowhere 00:12:49.740 --> 00:12:52.220 to be found the Cubs signed Alex Bregman and 00:12:52.220 --> 00:12:54.620 then lo and behold some of the I didn't have 00:12:54.620 --> 00:12:57.399 and the tea leaves or My bingo card whatever 00:12:57.399 --> 00:13:00.659 you want to call it Framberval does signs and 00:13:00.659 --> 00:13:03.659 the Tigers get the best remaining starting pitcher 00:13:03.659 --> 00:13:07.580 that was a free agent He has been pitching in 00:13:07.580 --> 00:13:09.820 Minute Maid or whatever they're calling Houston's 00:13:09.820 --> 00:13:12.659 band box of a hitters park. As his home field 00:13:12.659 --> 00:13:15.539 forever, yes. He now goes to Comerica, which 00:13:15.539 --> 00:13:19.019 is a true pitchers park. He is a sinker ball 00:13:19.019 --> 00:13:22.519 pitcher. He is a left -hander that can be dominant. 00:13:22.700 --> 00:13:25.960 He goes seven innings routinely. I love this 00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:29.899 signing chat. I love it. Let me just throw a 00:13:29.899 --> 00:13:31.960 couple things at you here. First of all, the 00:13:31.960 --> 00:13:34.799 contract. For those of you that thought the Tigers 00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:38.779 were cheap, no. Three years, 115, 38 mill a year. 00:13:39.340 --> 00:13:43.879 That is the second largest average annual value 00:13:43.879 --> 00:13:46.259 for a contract ever handed to a pitcher next 00:13:46.259 --> 00:13:51.440 to Zach Wheeler. This is the largest annual value 00:13:51.440 --> 00:13:54.419 ever handed to a left -handed pitcher. This is 00:13:54.419 --> 00:13:57.519 the largest average annual value for a Latin 00:13:57.519 --> 00:14:00.779 player. Pitcher and you're looking at a situation 00:14:00.779 --> 00:14:02.580 here where a lot of people are calling it kind 00:14:02.580 --> 00:14:05.320 of absurd I mean, he has an opt -out after year 00:14:05.320 --> 00:14:08.659 two. Yeah, I don't see him taking that good or 00:14:08.659 --> 00:14:11.019 bad I guess if he does it's a good thing because 00:14:11.019 --> 00:14:13.200 he's probably you know, pitched his butt off 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:15.440 and done a great job It's a great there's he 00:14:15.440 --> 00:14:18.500 doesn't come without a little stink on him. Okay, 00:14:18.500 --> 00:14:21.759 of course There's there's some things floating 00:14:21.759 --> 00:14:23.080 around out there and you can watch it There's 00:14:23.080 --> 00:14:25.860 some pretty funny clips of him basically tattooing 00:14:25.860 --> 00:14:28.799 his catcher in the chest plate there. I believe 00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:33.360 it was a, it was billed as a mixed signals on 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:36.399 pitches, but I don't think that's that easy to 00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:38.080 do anymore. And his response to it looked like 00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:40.320 he meant it. His catcher wasn't too thrilled 00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:42.620 about it. I think he was expecting a sinker low 00:14:42.620 --> 00:14:44.700 and in and got one, got a heater right in the 00:14:44.700 --> 00:14:47.279 chest. So there've been a few memes out there 00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:49.559 of, you know, Dylan Dingler wearing Knight's 00:14:49.559 --> 00:14:52.990 armor out on the social media. landscape. But 00:14:52.990 --> 00:14:55.429 I think, you know, you look past it. He wanted 00:14:55.429 --> 00:14:57.590 the big deal. He wanted the big six, seven year 00:14:57.590 --> 00:15:00.190 deal. He's 32 years old. You know, he's two years 00:15:00.190 --> 00:15:03.649 older than Scoobal. He wanted the big deal. He 00:15:03.649 --> 00:15:06.549 didn't get it. Nobody flashed that six, seven 00:15:06.549 --> 00:15:09.830 year, five year thing. So the Tigers came in 00:15:09.830 --> 00:15:12.649 with one of the highest AAVs for a pitcher ever 00:15:12.649 --> 00:15:16.129 on a three year deal. I love the structure of 00:15:16.129 --> 00:15:19.169 the deal. I love what it means and signals. I 00:15:19.169 --> 00:15:22.649 do as well. And it lends to a few other questions 00:15:22.649 --> 00:15:26.090 as spring training is upon us. Now you have Framber 00:15:26.090 --> 00:15:28.750 Valdez, Tarek Scubal. Let me flip those around. 00:15:28.809 --> 00:15:31.950 Scubal Valdez is your one too. Flarey. You have 00:15:31.950 --> 00:15:36.370 two aces at the top of the rotation. Do the Tigers, 00:15:36.529 --> 00:15:40.350 are the Tigers now in your mind done with talking 00:15:40.350 --> 00:15:43.789 about trading Scubal? Or is this there's still 00:15:43.789 --> 00:15:46.549 a door open for that? Think the door will always 00:15:46.549 --> 00:15:49.370 be open and they'll listen preseason. Let's say 00:15:49.370 --> 00:15:53.769 But I think the hall I think the Tigers going 00:15:53.769 --> 00:15:57.909 into arbitration had lost all control in terms 00:15:57.909 --> 00:16:01.570 of the narrative and Whether they needed trade 00:16:01.570 --> 00:16:04.190 scubal whether they were gonna trade scubal and 00:16:04.190 --> 00:16:07.230 with one fell swoop And again, I can't tell you 00:16:07.230 --> 00:16:09.610 how much I love this signing 10 out of 10 a plus 00:16:09.610 --> 00:16:13.000 for Valdez They regained all control and all 00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:15.700 power on the situation. So the negotiations, 00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:17.679 if they were to trade them, are going to go a 00:16:17.679 --> 00:16:19.740 heck of a lot better now than they would have 00:16:19.740 --> 00:16:23.200 had they not signed fall debts. And you and I 00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:27.059 as tiger fans and listeners can rest easier knowing 00:16:27.059 --> 00:16:30.080 that they do have two aces now. And I don't want 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:32.019 to foreshadow too much, but let's talk about 00:16:32.019 --> 00:16:34.860 this lineup, Chet. We've always said, starting 00:16:34.860 --> 00:16:36.379 pitching, you can't have enough. You can't have 00:16:36.379 --> 00:16:38.179 enough. Well, and it was obviously a focus in 00:16:38.179 --> 00:16:39.980 the offseason this year. Yeah. So you've got 00:16:39.980 --> 00:16:42.340 those two that we mentioned. You follow that 00:16:42.340 --> 00:16:44.899 up with Flaherty. Then you still have Kasey Mize. 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:48.059 You still have Rhys Olsen. And you still... Melton 00:16:48.059 --> 00:16:49.980 is still floating around out there. I still want 00:16:49.980 --> 00:16:52.700 to see him. He was the one I was most excited 00:16:52.700 --> 00:16:54.980 for this season. Yeah. And so that's your six 00:16:54.980 --> 00:16:57.200 deep, and that's without even bringing it. And 00:16:57.200 --> 00:16:59.059 you've got the Keiter Monteros. I was just going 00:16:59.059 --> 00:17:02.220 to say Montero and some other. Yeah. So I think 00:17:02.220 --> 00:17:06.319 the days of Tyler Holton opening, you know, again, 00:17:06.920 --> 00:17:08.240 I'm hoping. You don't think we're going to see 00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:14.380 the starter by committee deal anymore? I can't 00:17:14.380 --> 00:17:16.240 promise you that because I promise there won't 00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:18.900 be any chaos. You never know. But just I can't 00:17:18.900 --> 00:17:21.440 get in AJ's noggin like that. Here's the thing. 00:17:21.880 --> 00:17:24.779 I'm still leaving open the possibility of him 00:17:24.779 --> 00:17:27.519 getting traded. However, when they basically 00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:30.480 told the Yankees to sit down and sit it out because 00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:33.019 they didn't have what they needed, I started 00:17:33.019 --> 00:17:35.619 realizing I don't think they're getting offered 00:17:35.619 --> 00:17:38.460 quite what they want from these teams. I don't 00:17:38.460 --> 00:17:43.920 know. I don't know that Tarek Scoobal holds the... 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:46.910 I don't know that he's as... Big a deal. I got 00:17:46.910 --> 00:17:48.549 to figure out how to phrase this because it's 00:17:48.549 --> 00:17:51.069 going to sound ridiculous after two Cy Youngs. 00:17:51.150 --> 00:17:53.009 I don't know that a lot of teams want to leverage 00:17:53.009 --> 00:17:55.470 themselves that heavily for him. Let's put it 00:17:55.470 --> 00:17:58.190 that way. I think you're spot on with that. I 00:17:58.190 --> 00:18:00.190 don't I don't know that he's going to get a six, 00:18:00.349 --> 00:18:02.170 seven year deal from somebody when he does go 00:18:02.170 --> 00:18:04.869 back to the negotiating table. I don't. It's 00:18:04.869 --> 00:18:08.089 a nice Arbwin for him. OK, but I think he's going 00:18:08.089 --> 00:18:10.630 to get like a Framber Valdez type deal offered 00:18:10.630 --> 00:18:14.140 up. Okay, you stole the next thought that I had. 00:18:14.140 --> 00:18:16.940 Okay. Right from my mind. Okay. And that is the 00:18:16.940 --> 00:18:20.000 question to you is did Valdez just reset the 00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:22.980 market and did the Tigers do themselves a huge 00:18:22.980 --> 00:18:25.740 favor? I think you're going to see for pitching. 00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:28.759 You're going to see shorter deals with much higher 00:18:28.759 --> 00:18:31.920 AAV on them, average annual value. I think that's 00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:34.240 the key to pitching these days for these teams. 00:18:34.900 --> 00:18:39.900 And so Boris may have won this battle. I think 00:18:39.900 --> 00:18:42.759 he might have lost the war though. Yeah, we'll 00:18:42.759 --> 00:18:45.240 see what Zach Galen and Bassett and these other 00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:47.660 guys that are out there sign for. We'll see what 00:18:47.660 --> 00:18:50.200 they end up getting. But I think the long term 00:18:50.200 --> 00:18:53.900 pitching deals are a thing of yesteryear. I do 00:18:53.900 --> 00:18:56.000 wonder. I mean, everybody starts talking, you 00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:57.900 know, and we're going to get on the WBC here 00:18:57.900 --> 00:19:00.880 in a second. But the comp for Schubel keeps coming 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:04.279 up as like Skeens, Skeens, Skeens. He's the NL 00:19:04.279 --> 00:19:06.299 version of Schubel. You know, he's the best pitcher 00:19:06.299 --> 00:19:09.279 in the NL. And everybody keeps saying like Skeens 00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:11.779 is better than Schubel. There was outrage this 00:19:11.779 --> 00:19:13.980 past week. We'll talk in a minute about where 00:19:13.980 --> 00:19:17.700 they are in the rotation for WBC. But I, I don't 00:19:17.700 --> 00:19:20.420 know. I, I do think Skeens may have a little 00:19:20.420 --> 00:19:23.480 bit more than Scoobal does. And I wonder if teams 00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:26.619 are saying like, he's not a Skeens. He may not 00:19:26.619 --> 00:19:29.619 even be a, you know, a Jacob Mizorowski. He may 00:19:29.619 --> 00:19:32.200 not even be. It's, he doesn't pitch deep into 00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:35.740 games. He's been criticized for that. I know, 00:19:35.900 --> 00:19:37.759 but don't worry. The Miz is going to be huge 00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:39.539 this year. I got him on the fantasy squad. I 00:19:39.539 --> 00:19:43.039 got big plans for him. But all right, but he's 00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:46.420 he doesn't pitch deep into games Okay, and he's 00:19:46.420 --> 00:19:48.559 he's only going five innings per outing these 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:51.539 are they these are all the pre arbitration arguments 00:19:51.539 --> 00:19:54.240 fans were making for why scubal isn't all world 00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:56.619 And he's gotten his to say youngs. What are the 00:19:56.619 --> 00:19:58.200 chances he's gonna repeat that? That's the one 00:19:58.200 --> 00:20:00.259 I keep saying is you're paying for the guys to 00:20:00.259 --> 00:20:01.660 say youngs You're not paying for what he's gonna 00:20:01.660 --> 00:20:06.380 do going forward So I'm just saying maybe teams 00:20:06.380 --> 00:20:09.660 were reluctant to flush the farm system for him 00:20:09.660 --> 00:20:12.480 That's what the Tigers were hoping to get or 00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:14.519 they were gonna roll into the season hoping to 00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:17.119 compete I think he's just more valuable as a 00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:20.099 Detroit Tiger this season then Potentially in 00:20:20.099 --> 00:20:22.759 the three or four prospects we may get that that 00:20:22.759 --> 00:20:25.660 they may get in return Chet. See what happens 00:20:25.660 --> 00:20:28.720 check. We still need another big boy bat in this 00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:33.079 lineup I know I Sincerely hope. A lot of preseason 00:20:33.079 --> 00:20:35.160 left and there's a lot of guys sitting out there. 00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:37.140 Yeah, I hope they're not done. I'm eyeballing 00:20:37.140 --> 00:20:39.000 like a Reese Hoskins or something like that. 00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:41.779 I can see that. Wouldn't that be tasty? Anyhow, 00:20:42.220 --> 00:20:44.700 let's save that for another day. I want to get 00:20:44.700 --> 00:20:47.680 your thoughts on WBC. So it's a WBC year. You 00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:50.140 don't care. I don't like the WBC. I think this 00:20:50.140 --> 00:20:53.740 is... I usually love these battles in country 00:20:53.740 --> 00:20:56.680 against country in sports. I like the World Cup. 00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:00.680 I do not like the WBC. No, the World Cup is a 00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:04.519 standalone amazing, awesome event. This, for 00:21:04.519 --> 00:21:08.859 whatever reason, feels contrived. Contrived, 00:21:09.099 --> 00:21:11.799 forced, fabricated. It hurts the Major League 00:21:11.799 --> 00:21:14.980 season in some way, shape, or form. I probably 00:21:14.980 --> 00:21:17.619 need to get data on that before we say it, but 00:21:17.619 --> 00:21:20.720 I'm not a fan. Chet, I just don't want... Any 00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:23.380 of our guys would I mean to get hurt exactly 00:21:23.380 --> 00:21:25.799 that's what I don't want and the big uproar now 00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:27.960 is you know They've got scoobal is number one 00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:30.920 the first the the top dog a starter in skeins 00:21:30.920 --> 00:21:34.200 is number two for team USA and Everybody's like 00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:37.240 that's wrong skeins should be one scoobal's two 00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:40.359 and the arguments all come out against scoobal 00:21:40.359 --> 00:21:42.880 I know a lot of Tigers fans are like now scoobal's 00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:46.000 the ace dog. He's number one out there. I've 00:21:46.119 --> 00:21:48.000 I just hope he comes out of it healthy. I don't 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:49.759 care where he pitches to be honest with you. 00:21:50.019 --> 00:21:51.779 I don't want to see anybody hurt. Javier Baez 00:21:51.779 --> 00:21:53.740 isn't going to play. Did you hear about this? 00:21:54.019 --> 00:21:57.440 Javi, somebody said it was a paperwork or documentation 00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:00.319 issue. Fairly, he failed a pot test. He's out 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:03.299 hitting the doobie and didn't get put on the 00:22:03.299 --> 00:22:05.880 team. So I didn't even know they tested for that. 00:22:06.460 --> 00:22:09.160 I had no clue. But apparently you can't smoke 00:22:09.160 --> 00:22:12.859 weed and play in the WBC. I'm sort of shocked 00:22:12.859 --> 00:22:15.019 that the rosters aren't slimmed down a little 00:22:15.019 --> 00:22:17.140 more. Hopefully Cody Bellinger isn't on any of 00:22:17.140 --> 00:22:19.420 the teams. He did an interview the other day 00:22:19.420 --> 00:22:22.279 where he looked completely toasted. Go look that 00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:24.319 one up and you tell me he was not high on the 00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:27.359 air. But at any rate, Javi won't be out there. 00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:28.980 He was supposed to be out there and he's not 00:22:28.980 --> 00:22:32.059 going to be now. So interesting tidbits there 00:22:32.059 --> 00:22:34.539 on WBC. But yeah, I could take it or leave it. 00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:36.619 Maybe he's saving it all so he can have another 00:22:36.619 --> 00:22:39.119 All -Star first half appearance and then fall 00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:41.819 off a cliff. Alright Bill, let's talk about the 00:22:41.819 --> 00:22:43.819 spring training. What are your thoughts here? 00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:46.019 We got key dates. Give them to me. What do you 00:22:46.019 --> 00:22:49.900 got? Pitchers and catchers report on the 11th. 00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:54.279 Wednesday. Next week. I am so excited on that. 00:22:54.779 --> 00:22:58.279 So Lakeland, Florida will be a buzz. And following 00:22:58.279 --> 00:23:01.819 Sunday we get full squad workouts. February 15th. 00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:04.279 Mark your calendars. If you're headed down to 00:23:04.279 --> 00:23:06.559 Florida for spring break, whatnot, they'll be 00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:09.839 there at Joker Marshawn. We've got first game. 00:23:10.299 --> 00:23:14.200 First game is coming up. First game is February 00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:18.480 21st against the Yankees. I feel like we always 00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:20.960 start with the Yankees. They must be like right 00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:22.920 around the corner. They are. Are they right there? 00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:24.740 Is it very convenient? I haven't been down there 00:23:24.740 --> 00:23:27.579 in a while. Yeah, they're all in that Tampa, 00:23:27.900 --> 00:23:30.859 greater area. Sure. Apparently, we've got a March 00:23:30.859 --> 00:23:33.420 3rd through 4th battle against the Dominican 00:23:33.420 --> 00:23:36.579 Republic of Santo Domingo. That must be a WBC 00:23:36.579 --> 00:23:39.380 primer of some sort for them. And then Team Panama 00:23:39.380 --> 00:23:41.940 after that. These are just some of the highlights, 00:23:42.019 --> 00:23:44.339 I guess. And the last spring training game then 00:23:44.339 --> 00:23:46.740 is March 21st. And it is against the Yankees. 00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:49.579 Well, a couple things on that. The Yankees have 00:23:49.579 --> 00:23:53.109 the most or the best field. And it's also the 00:23:53.109 --> 00:23:55.970 best from a broadcasting standpoint, George Steinbrenner 00:23:55.970 --> 00:23:58.950 Field. And so I think the Tigers, this is a sign 00:23:58.950 --> 00:24:01.369 of respect from MLB in terms of the scheduling 00:24:01.369 --> 00:24:05.289 to put it on TV and to get some eyeballs on it 00:24:05.289 --> 00:24:08.269 and get attention to baseball. So good point. 00:24:08.430 --> 00:24:10.529 Good point. They're doing a weird thing, though. 00:24:10.710 --> 00:24:12.549 Did you see this? I think it's because they're 00:24:12.549 --> 00:24:16.170 starting the season. First game of the opening 00:24:16.170 --> 00:24:19.150 day or the opening game of the year is in San 00:24:19.150 --> 00:24:23.630 Diego at Petco. March 26. Nothing like the worst 00:24:23.630 --> 00:24:26.369 hitters park in baseball to go play in for your 00:24:26.369 --> 00:24:29.430 first series of the season. They start Thursday, 00:24:29.430 --> 00:24:33.289 March 26. They'll play the Padres. They're playing 00:24:33.289 --> 00:24:37.029 an exhibition series March 23rd and 24th in Scottsdale 00:24:37.029 --> 00:24:41.210 against the Rockies. I imagine the lineup will 00:24:41.210 --> 00:24:43.950 be pretty thin with starters for that little 00:24:43.950 --> 00:24:47.369 series. So you will get a little exhibition series 00:24:47.369 --> 00:24:51.039 after the Tigers leave Florida. And then after 00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:53.839 the San Diego series, they go to the Diamondbacks. 00:24:54.119 --> 00:24:56.579 So it makes sense. They're just bouncing around 00:24:56.579 --> 00:24:58.359 the Southwest to start the year off, which isn't 00:24:58.359 --> 00:25:00.319 so bad. I mean, you're going to start your season 00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:02.660 off playing warm climate, right? Shet better 00:25:02.660 --> 00:25:06.380 that than starting. No kidding. Because March 00:25:06.380 --> 00:25:08.900 26, I'm excited for opening day. I know you are 00:25:08.900 --> 00:25:11.039 as well. But in our neck of the woods, the weather 00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:14.559 isn't great. The weather is not a comfortable 00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:16.680 setting. It is not going to cooperate. And if 00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:19.579 it does, God, I hope I'm wrong. Anyhow, with 00:25:19.579 --> 00:25:23.240 that, we appreciate it. We will also have a roster 00:25:23.240 --> 00:25:26.559 invitation and spring training preview as a separate 00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:29.339 standalone episode. Go Tigers. It's great to 00:25:29.339 --> 00:25:31.880 be back and warmer weathers around the corner. 00:25:32.299 --> 00:25:38.640 Go Tigers. All right. That's going to do it for 00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:41.079 this episode of the Litterbox, a Detroit Tigers 00:25:41.079 --> 00:25:43.779 podcast. Thanks for hanging out with us. We're 00:25:43.779 --> 00:25:46.180 Bill and Chet. We'll be back soon with more Tigers 00:25:46.180 --> 00:25:49.240 Talk. If you're enjoying the show, be sure to 00:25:49.240 --> 00:25:52.720 follow or subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, 00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:55.759 or wherever you get your podcasts. And hey, if 00:25:55.759 --> 00:25:59.059 you got a minute, leave us a quick review. Until 00:25:59.059 --> 00:26:00.680 next time, go Tigers.