Have you been following all of the little nuggets?
What are your thoughts with Scoobble, with Framber
Valdez? Are you feeling a little better? I'm
feeling a lot better. And yes, I've been paying
attention and I wouldn't say these are small
nuggets chat. I'd say these are major implications
for our Detroit Tigers heading into the 2026
season. There's a little tongue in cheek. Yes,
the scubal arbitration hearing went exactly as
we thought it would. I love the fact that he
got what was deservedly so his. I don't think
it bodes well for baseball in 2027 and the lockout.
That will be another podcast. I think the bigger
headline for me, though, is the Tigers signal
to me with the Valdez signing that they are not
a small market team, not a mid -market team,
but they are going to go all in and they have,
I think, a one -two punch of left -handed pitchers
that is as formidable as anything that you are
going to see in the American League. You're listening
to The Litterbox, a Detroit Tigers podcast with
your hosts Chet West and Bill Patterson. Hello,
Litterbox listeners, Detroit Tigers fans. Welcome
back. to Litterbox, a Detroit Tigers podcast.
We are so happy to be back with you for the 2026
season. And what a way to start things off today
on our show. We have a lot to cover for you.
We'll be talking about the scubal arbitration
result, the Framber Valdez signing. What does
it signal? What does it mean? Do the Tigers keep
scubal after all? Maybe give our thoughts on
the WBC and then maybe it's effect on the players
and we'll throw a few key dates at you for spring
to get you prepared for this spring training
that is about to happen in the next week is about
to begin in the next week. Bill, welcome back.
It's been a long winter. It's been a long winter
and it's great to be back in Minneapolis and
Chicago. I think we've had three straight weeks
of sub freezing weather, so I cannot wait for
the most magical words. outside of Let's Play
Ball, which would be pictures and catchers reporting
February 11th. Next Wednesday. It got over 38
degrees here in the Twin Cities the other day,
and it's been an eventful winter here, and it
was a joyous occasion just to see some sunshine
and some warmth in the air. With 38 degrees and
it's warm in the air, you know you've got some
issues. Almost put on my bathing suit and waddled
outside into the backyard and just took in the
rays. We got some stuff solved. Over the past
week, Bill, I know a lot of Tigers fans have
been sitting around all season long wondering,
when are we going to get some answers to this
puzzle that will be the 2026 Tigers? Inside of
a 24 hour period, more happened in regard to
answers than we've seen in quite some time. Let's
start off with the Scubal Arb result. Do you
have thoughts? I think that Tarek Scubal should
be paid. That that amount of money. I know it's
an obscene amount of money for the regular world
But for baseball coming off the two seasons,
he's had back -to -back Cy Young's the most dominant
pitcher in the American League I think the Tigers
made a I guess Somewhat decent offer. It would
have been nice to have avoided arbitration But
everything that I've heard post arbitration and
read from Tarek scoobles camp is it doesn't sound
like there's hard feelings I think he's happy.
I think he's gonna be motivated and you teased
this a little bit. Do we think the Tigers trade
him? And at this point, I don't think so, Chet.
I think you roll with that one -two punch of
he and Valdez. And as I said in the intro, you
have the top two left -handed pitchers in the
American League. You can go up against any franchise.
And I like their chances up until they play,
you know, either the Phillies, the Mets or the
Dodgers. Sure. Sure. I think it says a lot, right?
You've got... a really good one -two punch, and
we'll talk about Framber here in just a second,
but I guess I'm split on the Arb case. It was
a monumental decision. I mean, this is historic.
The highest ever awarded. Yes. And a chunk over
what Juan Soto got, but also this sets the stage
for the CBA and the negotiations. I mean, I don't
know if you know this or not, but the Players
Union brought Bruce Mayer in. Bruce Meyer is
the lead chief litigator for the MLBPA. So he
was brought into this ARB hearing, which is,
you know, I can see why it's a big deal. It's
monumental. Yeah, exactly. So he's the chief
litigator and he's kind of in charge of all that,
you know, the player negotiation stuff from a
contractual side, from the money side of things.
Tony Clark's president, but then he's the guy
that makes the business run right. And he was
there. Apparently Scoobal brought his two Cy
Youngs with him, a la Tim Lintzikum, from a few
seasons past. Didn't have to pull them out, but
had them there as firepower. I mean, these ARB
cases are like, you know, each team kind of presents
their case, and then you have backup and supporting
people that may show up to kind of support one
side or the other. And I think the two Cy Youngs
were Scoobal's support. But I think this does...
If I'm reading the tea leaves here, our CBA and
the negotiations for that and the impending lockout,
I think is going to be brutal for baseball fans.
Absolutely. It did irreparable damage to the
two sides coming together any time. Yeah. Immediately.
Did you know that two of the three arbiters were
also present for the Soto case? So there was
only one new person, which I found a little curious
to say the least. But moving from that, Chet,
This is going to put Tony Clark and the Players
Association and the owners complete at odds.
And again, I had a lengthy discussion Thursday
night with three neighbors. So I'm going to give
a shout out to them now because they do listen.
And we've come to the conclusion that the luxury
tax obviously isn't as effective as it could
be. You know, some teams are allergic to it,
looking at you Chicago Cubs. Yeah. other teams,
you know, like the Tigers, you know, have a target
or a budget in mind and hold to that, but they
completely rocked my opinion of the franchise
to the positive with this Valdez signing. Within
24 hours. Literally, my entire world changed.
I mean, if you follow Reddit, Twitter, whatever,
Tigers, on any of the social media outlets, everybody's
done a 180 to a degree. Exactly, exactly. They
showed me that they're serious about running
the baseball operations, and it... I did a 180
on Chris Illich. I have not gone out to Little
Caesar's, but I did say that I would pick up
a couple pies. You should buy a pizza in appreciation.
Maybe it's our first food review of the season,
Bill. Maybe this is what we have to get on here.
I haven't had Little Caesar's pizza in a little
while. Yeah, maybe I'll get like, I think they're
doing like deep dish and sticks or something
like that. It's like a new promo. So I'll get...
I won't go, you know, the original bestest mostest
or, you know, the crazy bread, all the usual
suspects. I'll get the new items and I'll review
them for you. They deserve to have a pizza but
on the behalf of them signing the big deal. But
let's back to Scoobble just for a second. Don't
you think they should have like a Scoobble special
pizza? Oh my gosh. Why wouldn't they? Hello help
us pay for Tarex jalapenos banana peppers and
pepperoni or something like that, you know spicy
So one of the aspects of this I learned about
and listening to various podcasts I'll give like
a shout out to baseball barbecues because I'm
stealing a lot of the info that they Basically
passed along there. They're good. They're good
outlet there. Those guys know what they're talking
about They do I mean Major League Baseball does
have like a player contract You know pricing
arm the the league has a group that suggests
Here's what a player should make this is what
we should be offering in a negotiation And I
think arbitration is far different than just
signing a free agent. Okay, or or extending somebody
It's a different process. You're setting precedent
with it. And so they're gonna argue, you know,
we can't go We don't want to break the Dane system
ourselves. Like let's let's make the players
force it to break for us, right? So they're going
to go in there as low as they can. And I don't
know how much the Tigers were influenced by that
arm of the league, but the teams can do what
they want, but they are going to go seek influence.
They're going to go seek some opinions. So maybe
they took the opinions of the league and took
them to heart and went in real low. And it sounds
to me like after that happened, there was no
negotiation at the table. They, the Boris group
said, Nope, we're going for the full Monte here.
32 mil and that's that and Clearly the Boris
group is right. So going back to my neighbor
going back to my neighbors the other night Again,
we don't think the luxury tax or the salary cap
is gonna solve issues because as you just mentioned
so much of this is already in place How does,
I guess you'd have to institute a floor to motivate
the Marlins or the Bob McNulty - This is a very
simple result to this whole thing, and that's
a ceiling. You put a cap out there, you put a
floor out there. Yeah. That's the negotiation
right there. Okay. The bigger issue the neighbors
and I came up with is television, and everybody
at the table the other night subscribes to the
Major League Baseball package. We are fortunate
enough to live in a town that has two major league
baseball teams. One of my buddies is a Dodger
fan. One of my buddies is a Braves fan. They
grew up in Atlanta and LA respectively. The other
is a Cincinnati Reds fan. And what infuriates
us... I've mentioned it before is you can subscribe
out of market But then when the teams play in
market you are being asked to get the marquee
network for say the Reds play the Cubs Braves
play the Cubs get the Auxiliary package or whatever
you have to get Chicago sports Yeah, even worse
for the whites just so you can watch six games
a season or whatever Yeah, so I think the bigger
negotiation upcoming chat in if baseball really
wants to solve this issue they meaning This disagreement
between players, the Scott Boris camp and the
owners. The owners have to come together, buy
out the yes network, buy out L .A. Sports Net,
buy out the marquee network, and they need to
institute not what the NFL has because the NFL
is printing money, but they need to make it more
worth our while in terms of selling the Major
League Baseball package. It's just about another
product, right, for the fans. I mean, give us.
Give us a pipeline to this like give us an easy
way to watch your games and no more roku friday
night apple tv Uh at 11 10 on a sunday morning
when the nfl started this stuff, too I mean,
I gotta get a paramount plus plus. Yes. Yes.
Yes. Yes subscription So I I think outside of
the finances for our listeners the big thing
to look at is what they decide to do regarding
media rights and For whatever reason, let's say
the owners and players do come to some type of
agreement on a floor, a ceiling, whatever, they
update the luxury tax. They create different
slotting systems. They, you know, maybe don't
have as much service time until, you know, the
players get more control. If the media rights
doesn't get resolved, I think baseball is really
in a world to hurt. And that is really what I'm
focused on going forward. It will. It'll get
solved. They're going to figure something out.
I don't know how messy it's going to be with
the Yes Network and the West Coast teams. It'll
eventually be a piece of this whole puzzle more
than likely. Bill, let's shift gears here real
quick to something maybe a little more positive.
Framber Valdez. News was announced on the eve
of the arbitration hearing that the Tigers were
no longer cheap. And we're going to go spend
a bunch of money to the tune of 115 million for
Vrambar Valdez over three years. Do you have
thoughts on this little nugget? Absolutely love
it. And I was one that was very upset after the
Reds signed Eugenio Suarez to one year and basically
like an Alex Cobb type contract. Even though
he strikes out a ton, his best days might be
Behind him. I was also upset when the Mets signed
Bo Bichette and that the Tigers were nowhere
to be found the Cubs signed Alex Bregman and
then lo and behold some of the I didn't have
and the tea leaves or My bingo card whatever
you want to call it Framberval does signs and
the Tigers get the best remaining starting pitcher
that was a free agent He has been pitching in
Minute Maid or whatever they're calling Houston's
band box of a hitters park. As his home field
forever, yes. He now goes to Comerica, which
is a true pitchers park. He is a sinker ball
pitcher. He is a left -hander that can be dominant.
He goes seven innings routinely. I love this
signing chat. I love it. Let me just throw a
couple things at you here. First of all, the
contract. For those of you that thought the Tigers
were cheap, no. Three years, 115, 38 mill a year.
That is the second largest average annual value
for a contract ever handed to a pitcher next
to Zach Wheeler. This is the largest annual value
ever handed to a left -handed pitcher. This is
the largest average annual value for a Latin
player. Pitcher and you're looking at a situation
here where a lot of people are calling it kind
of absurd I mean, he has an opt -out after year
two. Yeah, I don't see him taking that good or
bad I guess if he does it's a good thing because
he's probably you know, pitched his butt off
and done a great job It's a great there's he
doesn't come without a little stink on him. Okay,
of course There's there's some things floating
around out there and you can watch it There's
some pretty funny clips of him basically tattooing
his catcher in the chest plate there. I believe
it was a, it was billed as a mixed signals on
pitches, but I don't think that's that easy to
do anymore. And his response to it looked like
he meant it. His catcher wasn't too thrilled
about it. I think he was expecting a sinker low
and in and got one, got a heater right in the
chest. So there've been a few memes out there
of, you know, Dylan Dingler wearing Knight's
armor out on the social media. landscape. But
I think, you know, you look past it. He wanted
the big deal. He wanted the big six, seven year
deal. He's 32 years old. You know, he's two years
older than Scoobal. He wanted the big deal. He
didn't get it. Nobody flashed that six, seven
year, five year thing. So the Tigers came in
with one of the highest AAVs for a pitcher ever
on a three year deal. I love the structure of
the deal. I love what it means and signals. I
do as well. And it lends to a few other questions
as spring training is upon us. Now you have Framber
Valdez, Tarek Scubal. Let me flip those around.
Scubal Valdez is your one too. Flarey. You have
two aces at the top of the rotation. Do the Tigers,
are the Tigers now in your mind done with talking
about trading Scubal? Or is this there's still
a door open for that? Think the door will always
be open and they'll listen preseason. Let's say
But I think the hall I think the Tigers going
into arbitration had lost all control in terms
of the narrative and Whether they needed trade
scubal whether they were gonna trade scubal and
with one fell swoop And again, I can't tell you
how much I love this signing 10 out of 10 a plus
for Valdez They regained all control and all
power on the situation. So the negotiations,
if they were to trade them, are going to go a
heck of a lot better now than they would have
had they not signed fall debts. And you and I
as tiger fans and listeners can rest easier knowing
that they do have two aces now. And I don't want
to foreshadow too much, but let's talk about
this lineup, Chet. We've always said, starting
pitching, you can't have enough. You can't have
enough. Well, and it was obviously a focus in
the offseason this year. Yeah. So you've got
those two that we mentioned. You follow that
up with Flaherty. Then you still have Kasey Mize.
You still have Rhys Olsen. And you still... Melton
is still floating around out there. I still want
to see him. He was the one I was most excited
for this season. Yeah. And so that's your six
deep, and that's without even bringing it. And
you've got the Keiter Monteros. I was just going
to say Montero and some other. Yeah. So I think
the days of Tyler Holton opening, you know, again,
I'm hoping. You don't think we're going to see
the starter by committee deal anymore? I can't
promise you that because I promise there won't
be any chaos. You never know. But just I can't
get in AJ's noggin like that. Here's the thing.
I'm still leaving open the possibility of him
getting traded. However, when they basically
told the Yankees to sit down and sit it out because
they didn't have what they needed, I started
realizing I don't think they're getting offered
quite what they want from these teams. I don't
know. I don't know that Tarek Scoobal holds the...
I don't know that he's as... Big a deal. I got
to figure out how to phrase this because it's
going to sound ridiculous after two Cy Youngs.
I don't know that a lot of teams want to leverage
themselves that heavily for him. Let's put it
that way. I think you're spot on with that. I
don't I don't know that he's going to get a six,
seven year deal from somebody when he does go
back to the negotiating table. I don't. It's
a nice Arbwin for him. OK, but I think he's going
to get like a Framber Valdez type deal offered
up. Okay, you stole the next thought that I had.
Okay. Right from my mind. Okay. And that is the
question to you is did Valdez just reset the
market and did the Tigers do themselves a huge
favor? I think you're going to see for pitching.
You're going to see shorter deals with much higher
AAV on them, average annual value. I think that's
the key to pitching these days for these teams.
And so Boris may have won this battle. I think
he might have lost the war though. Yeah, we'll
see what Zach Galen and Bassett and these other
guys that are out there sign for. We'll see what
they end up getting. But I think the long term
pitching deals are a thing of yesteryear. I do
wonder. I mean, everybody starts talking, you
know, and we're going to get on the WBC here
in a second. But the comp for Schubel keeps coming
up as like Skeens, Skeens, Skeens. He's the NL
version of Schubel. You know, he's the best pitcher
in the NL. And everybody keeps saying like Skeens
is better than Schubel. There was outrage this
past week. We'll talk in a minute about where
they are in the rotation for WBC. But I, I don't
know. I, I do think Skeens may have a little
bit more than Scoobal does. And I wonder if teams
are saying like, he's not a Skeens. He may not
even be a, you know, a Jacob Mizorowski. He may
not even be. It's, he doesn't pitch deep into
games. He's been criticized for that. I know,
but don't worry. The Miz is going to be huge
this year. I got him on the fantasy squad. I
got big plans for him. But all right, but he's
he doesn't pitch deep into games Okay, and he's
he's only going five innings per outing these
are they these are all the pre arbitration arguments
fans were making for why scubal isn't all world
And he's gotten his to say youngs. What are the
chances he's gonna repeat that? That's the one
I keep saying is you're paying for the guys to
say youngs You're not paying for what he's gonna
do going forward So I'm just saying maybe teams
were reluctant to flush the farm system for him
That's what the Tigers were hoping to get or
they were gonna roll into the season hoping to
compete I think he's just more valuable as a
Detroit Tiger this season then Potentially in
the three or four prospects we may get that that
they may get in return Chet. See what happens
check. We still need another big boy bat in this
lineup I know I Sincerely hope. A lot of preseason
left and there's a lot of guys sitting out there.
Yeah, I hope they're not done. I'm eyeballing
like a Reese Hoskins or something like that.
I can see that. Wouldn't that be tasty? Anyhow,
let's save that for another day. I want to get
your thoughts on WBC. So it's a WBC year. You
don't care. I don't like the WBC. I think this
is... I usually love these battles in country
against country in sports. I like the World Cup.
I do not like the WBC. No, the World Cup is a
standalone amazing, awesome event. This, for
whatever reason, feels contrived. Contrived,
forced, fabricated. It hurts the Major League
season in some way, shape, or form. I probably
need to get data on that before we say it, but
I'm not a fan. Chet, I just don't want... Any
of our guys would I mean to get hurt exactly
that's what I don't want and the big uproar now
is you know They've got scoobal is number one
the first the the top dog a starter in skeins
is number two for team USA and Everybody's like
that's wrong skeins should be one scoobal's two
and the arguments all come out against scoobal
I know a lot of Tigers fans are like now scoobal's
the ace dog. He's number one out there. I've
I just hope he comes out of it healthy. I don't
care where he pitches to be honest with you.
I don't want to see anybody hurt. Javier Baez
isn't going to play. Did you hear about this?
Javi, somebody said it was a paperwork or documentation
issue. Fairly, he failed a pot test. He's out
hitting the doobie and didn't get put on the
team. So I didn't even know they tested for that.
I had no clue. But apparently you can't smoke
weed and play in the WBC. I'm sort of shocked
that the rosters aren't slimmed down a little
more. Hopefully Cody Bellinger isn't on any of
the teams. He did an interview the other day
where he looked completely toasted. Go look that
one up and you tell me he was not high on the
air. But at any rate, Javi won't be out there.
He was supposed to be out there and he's not
going to be now. So interesting tidbits there
on WBC. But yeah, I could take it or leave it.
Maybe he's saving it all so he can have another
All -Star first half appearance and then fall
off a cliff. Alright Bill, let's talk about the
spring training. What are your thoughts here?
We got key dates. Give them to me. What do you
got? Pitchers and catchers report on the 11th.
Wednesday. Next week. I am so excited on that.
So Lakeland, Florida will be a buzz. And following
Sunday we get full squad workouts. February 15th.
Mark your calendars. If you're headed down to
Florida for spring break, whatnot, they'll be
there at Joker Marshawn. We've got first game.
First game is coming up. First game is February
21st against the Yankees. I feel like we always
start with the Yankees. They must be like right
around the corner. They are. Are they right there?
Is it very convenient? I haven't been down there
in a while. Yeah, they're all in that Tampa,
greater area. Sure. Apparently, we've got a March
3rd through 4th battle against the Dominican
Republic of Santo Domingo. That must be a WBC
primer of some sort for them. And then Team Panama
after that. These are just some of the highlights,
I guess. And the last spring training game then
is March 21st. And it is against the Yankees.
Well, a couple things on that. The Yankees have
the most or the best field. And it's also the
best from a broadcasting standpoint, George Steinbrenner
Field. And so I think the Tigers, this is a sign
of respect from MLB in terms of the scheduling
to put it on TV and to get some eyeballs on it
and get attention to baseball. So good point.
Good point. They're doing a weird thing, though.
Did you see this? I think it's because they're
starting the season. First game of the opening
day or the opening game of the year is in San
Diego at Petco. March 26. Nothing like the worst
hitters park in baseball to go play in for your
first series of the season. They start Thursday,
March 26. They'll play the Padres. They're playing
an exhibition series March 23rd and 24th in Scottsdale
against the Rockies. I imagine the lineup will
be pretty thin with starters for that little
series. So you will get a little exhibition series
after the Tigers leave Florida. And then after
the San Diego series, they go to the Diamondbacks.
So it makes sense. They're just bouncing around
the Southwest to start the year off, which isn't
so bad. I mean, you're going to start your season
off playing warm climate, right? Shet better
that than starting. No kidding. Because March
26, I'm excited for opening day. I know you are
as well. But in our neck of the woods, the weather
isn't great. The weather is not a comfortable
setting. It is not going to cooperate. And if
it does, God, I hope I'm wrong. Anyhow, with
that, we appreciate it. We will also have a roster
invitation and spring training preview as a separate
standalone episode. Go Tigers. It's great to
be back and warmer weathers around the corner.
Go Tigers. All right. That's going to do it for
this episode of the Litterbox, a Detroit Tigers
podcast. Thanks for hanging out with us. We're
Bill and Chet. We'll be back soon with more Tigers
Talk. If you're enjoying the show, be sure to
follow or subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. And hey, if
you got a minute, leave us a quick review. Until
next time, go Tigers.