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You're listening to the Litterbox, a Detroit
Tigers podcast with your hosts, Chet West and
Bill Patterson. Detroit Tigers litter box listeners.
Welcome back to the Detroit Tigers litter box
for the first of our hot stove pods. It's your
cohost Billy P from the D with my cohost Chet
West, and I'm going to open this with, we have
some signings Chet, and I want to ask you, how
do you feel about one Drew Anderson being a Detroit
Tiger? I am bored with that. These So this is
Scott Harris. Again, like you've alluded to in
the past, trying to show everybody that he's
the smartest guy in the room. And they've gone
out and they've found some metric or they've
done some scouting in the Orient. In the KBO,
to be exact. And they've dug up this diamond
in the rough. Can you explain what the KBO is
to those that might not know, please? It's the
Korean baseball organization. It's the Korean
baseball league, professional league. You typically
don't see players going overseas and playing
in the KBO. They're usually playing in the, in
the Japanese league. They'll, you know, it's
not, it's not the first tier stop overseas, but
I'm just, I get tired of seeing these moves where
we're trying to convert relievers to starters.
We're trying to get these guys from the, you
know, I get it. His job is to look, look between
the lines, kind of, you know, dig something up
out of the weeds. This is just a flyer on a kind
of like a reclamation project deal. Okay, so
I gave it, in terms of our grades, listeners,
we do A, A +, B. I gave it a B because the ceiling
could be high on it and the cost was relatively
low. But again, this is Scott Harris looking
for a diamond in the rough as my co -host just
shared. And again, it goes back to my point that
why do you always have to be the smartest guy
in the room? We'll get more into that in a minute.
Chet Gleybar -Torres is back for his second season
as a Tiger. They offered him. Yeah, I think fully
expecting to get the one of the comp pick in
the first round, and they didn't think he was
going to accept. And guess what? His market value
was not there. So he's a Detroit Tiger. And here's.
I'll let you go. I know you've got a lot to say
on this, but this is where I'm going to pan Scott
Harris a little bit. He got up in front of all
the media this week and said, Hey, we're not
going to block any of our prospects. And then
he goes and signs a guy that will not play another
position outside of second base, which last time
I checked chat, we've got some prospects that
are pretty good middle infielders. I like the
signing on the surface level. I don't like the
messaging that, Hey, he's a guy we always wanted
and This is good for the team. The Tigers are
betting heavy on that sports hernia being the
reason that he declined so much in the last 60
games of last year. What say you? I think they
gambled on this and lost. I think they thought
for sure he'd turn it down. He was projected
to get offered three and four year offers because
he had a successful season last year. closed
out the season with the sports hernia. So his
numbers took a dip, but he had a, he had a very
good reason for it. Obviously he had cover for
that. So I think they were projecting, he'd get
like a three or four year deal and about 15 to
17 million a year. And he basically forego that
long -term deal, less AAV, average annual value,
and took the Tigers one year deal at 22 million.
I don't know that that was a, I don't know that
that was the best choice for him. He knows why
he did his agent knows why I did it. I don't
know why I did it I had taken the three or four
and 15 to 17 because if he comes out and goes
flat next year Nobody's paying him 15 to 17 million
over the next three years following. So he got
his 22 mil We didn't get our comp pick which
is what I think they were hoping for to begin
with I think Scott Harris values draft picks
like nobody's business he and Brad Holmes dine
together and talk about draft picks I think and
If I had my, if I had a guess, Brad Holmes trades
away his draft picks so that he can be the smartest
guy. He loves his draft picks too. He likes to
trade his picks when he has multiples and rounds
down, down draft, but he loves his first, second,
third. And they were looking for that first round
comp pick here. The Tigers were hoping they were
going to get it and they didn't. And now they're
stuck with Gleyber for another year. And I guarantee
you, I guarantee. to you, he does not perform
like he did this past year. He had a career season
going in the first half. First 100 games. First
100 games. And then then the hernia, he found
a cover for why he dropped off. We're going to
see a lot more of that second half from him.
And it gives you an idea of how important AAV
is to these players now. The average annual value.
is huge. Get used to that terminology, because
you're going to hear it in contract talks. And
it's one of the things that we're going to have
to worry about with somebody we're going to talk
about later in the pod. Let's talk about the
final signing. So overall, I'm going to give
Torres. I'm going to disagree with you. And I
think, OK, I'm going to be optimistic. Well,
no, I'm not disagreeing with why they signed
them, Chad. I think you just like the signing.
You're good on it. Well, I think it. For much
of last season, he was our best hitter. He was
our most patient hitter. If we get that ceiling
back, he's a valuable asset in a lineup that
strikes out way too much. And if he's taking
pitches and batting at the top of the order,
like he did the first hundred games, I would
give it a B plus. I think it could easily become
a D or D minus signing if the 60 games that we
saw the latter half of the year. is what rears
its head. And I'm 100 % with you, Chad. I think
Scott Harrison Company said, he'll call our bluff.
There's no way he's going to sign. And we get
a really good draft pick out of it. And that
didn't work. Let's get on to the final signing
and the one that I'm most excited about and actually
really happy that the Tigers did and that is
one Kyle Finnegan. I give this an A because we
have an arm that fit within our bullpen. He's
not the greatest swing and miss guy but given
how lacking the Tigers bullpen is in swing and
miss, he might be the best of the bunch and overall
I like it and I know I'm being a little bit generous
with my grades. I feel like the Tigers are just
rolling it all back out. And they're saying that
2025 was a success. And we'll get into Harris's
press conference and that those first hundred
games were the real team, not the last 60 games
where they fell flat on their face and limped
their way in without winning the division. I
think this Finnegan signing was great. I'm a
fan of I'm a fan of the signing. I have absolutely
no doubts that he's a quality reliever and the
type of reliever we need to be filling our bullpen
with. I would like a little more swing and miss.
You know this on my wish list. I would as well.
Yeah, one or two swing and miss guys, but Finnegan's
a good reliever. Santa Claus, are you listening
to Uncle Chat and Uncle Billy P here? We'd like
some swing and miss please. Let's lap up Santa.
I want swing and miss. So get me at least one
or two. One or two swing and miss guys for that
pen this year. There is some other now. Bill
those are the signings so far. Okay, that's all
we've done. That's it. That's this is this is
it so far we know that the offseason is long
and Sometimes you wake up in the morning and
a text hits your phone that something crazy has
happened and that Probably will happen a few
times in this offseason make us think about things
What are your thoughts on all the school bull
updates coming out of the general manager meetings?
Great question. I think the two sides are as
far apart as they've ever been or further apart
than they've ever been. Scott Boris, I'll say
this, Chet, when the pod blows up and we need
an agent representing us, Scott Boris, we have
to hire Scott Boris. I mean, using Scooby Doo
references, it's so annoying. He was so punny
and he read the room well and he really made
Scott Harris look like the 37 year old he is,
and a fool, quite frankly. And so I don't see
any way the Tigers come out of this winning,
A, the PR battle, B, actually signing the player.
And I unfortunately think at this point, Chet,
he will be traded at some point for far less
pennies on the dollar. Let's just say, or he
will pitch all of next year because the Tigers
will You know, they play in the AL Central, which
is the worst division in baseball, and they'll
limp their way into the postseason again. And
I think that Chris Illich and Scott Harris right
now think that is good enough. I think they think
is paying customers. that we aren't smart enough
to recognize what's going on. And I find that
absolutely insulting. But I don't know what kind
of choices they've got, Bill. And the Tigers.
And by the way, it's not just the Tigers. When
it comes down to Scubal and what he's going to
command contract wise, he's going to ask for
42 million plus a year. The highest contract
AAV. Per year is 42 million right now, and that,
I believe, is Zach Wheeler. He's going to ask
for more than that. He's going for more. He's
going for broke. And he should. He should try
to get the highest contract ever paid to a pitcher.
And he should get it. He's two years in a row,
Cy Young. The Tigers are in a really bad spot.
There's no way that they can resign him. They
can't afford it. You can tell me they can. They
can't. And 29 other teams, 28 to 29 other teams
in baseball can't either and won't. They just
won't leverage themselves to that degree on a
pitcher, on a guy who plays every five days.
I don't want him to sign him. I love Tarek Scoble.
Don't get me wrong. Love watching him pitch.
I do not think that he can repeat what he's done
the past two seasons. I don't think he can turn
that type of performance in again. If he gets
a third Cy Young award in a row, more power to
him, but I wouldn't gamble on it. And he is going
to end up hurt at some point in time. He'll end
up hurt. He'll end up doing something. He also,
by the way, for a guy who is a Cy Young, he's
been managed very well. His innings have been
so low. Somebody cranked out Verlander's Cy Young.
numbers the other day and how many innings he
pitched in his Cy Young season versus how many
innings were pitched by Scubal. It was like,
it was a crazy number. I get to go dig those
up, maybe post them on social media or something,
but it was nowhere near, Scubal was nowhere near
Verlander's numbers from his Cy Young. He's already
had two major surgeries, you know, so we have
that to consider and he has managed himself or
I don't know, Boris has managed him well. In
terms of pitch counts, I'm with you winning a
third Cy Young. I'm taking the field over that.
I mean, to win three Cy Youngs in a row is rarefied
error. And I just think there's too many other
guys out there. So I agree with you on that.
Somebody's going to pay him to do for what he's
already done. This is a problem with baseball
in a lot of ways. The guys get paid for what
they've done, not what they're going to do. And
I see a bidding war happening between the Yankees,
the Mets, the Dodgers, the Giants, the Phillies,
I don't know. I don't even think the Phillies
and Giants are going to be in there. I can see
you want to throw an exotic team in there, maybe
like a, I don't even know if the Mariners would
be involved. I have a trouble finding anybody
other than the Dodgers and the Yankees who are
willing to even go after them. Maybe the Mets
Dodgers Yankees Mets those three teams. Okay
Well, then that will be Scott Boris's, you know
sword to fall on if the markets not there What
I was gonna say finishing this thought is that
I think that the teams will bid against each
other a la Juan Soto and it will go from 400
million total package to 450 to hey, I'm gonna
offer you 475. I'm gonna offer you 480 I think
he's gonna get 10 and 450 and he's going to get
a $45 million a year deal. Most of it will be
deferred to pay him sometime in 2040. And that'll
be how the whole entire thing is structured.
So at any rate, I don't think I'm all for the
Tigers trading scubal. before the season starts
would be best. I don't really want it to linger
around through spring training. I don't particularly
want it to linger into the season. These things
get messy. They distract the team. They distract
Scoobble. They distract everybody else. And I
want them to be able to strategize with what
they're able to get back for Scoobble and then
go out and sign a few other guys to fill some
space. What are your thoughts there? I'd think
a smart organization would do exactly what you
just suggested and I hope that's the case. Yep
Well, and guys are getting signed that we could
have to with that money. We would exactly exactly.
Yeah, something needs to happen Before spring
training starts obviously, but well before string
in my opinion well before spring training I think
the trick here is any team trading the hall for
him that the Tigers are expecting. They also
have to negotiate with Scubal and see if they
can get him to sign the extension. So like the
Dodgers were rumored to have a deal in place
for him this past week. I'm betting that if there
was a deal in place, the holdup is they're trying
to get him to agree to a long term gig. And so.
There's a lot of money being shelled out there.
And if he ends up playing for the Dodgers, I
think the baseball might explode. I have no idea
how that'll shake out. But it just seems the
word unfair isn't correct. But it seems slightly
unjust in many ways that he would end up playing
for the Los Angeles Dodgers. I'm hoping it's
like the Mets or somebody else that will ruin
him. No offense. to school, but if he goes to
the Mets, he'll probably be ruined somehow because
they ruin everybody they touch. It's, you know,
it's maybe it'll be the Yankees, maybe the Yankees,
but I think some team is going to have to figure
out the extension before they give up all the
pieces the Tigers are going to be looking for.
And that could take some time, unfortunately.
Yeah. Let me, I guess, as we kind of wrap this
up, Scott Harris looked like he was sweating
through his suit and pants at the winter meetings
in Orlando. Maybe it was humid, but it didn't
seem like anybody else was sweating that bad.
And I think he doesn't know what to do with this
scubal situation. Who would? I mean, this is
a tough deal for these general managers. Like,
you're going to give away the pride of your organization.
And you got half your fan base screaming, you
better not do it or I'm never watching a game
again. This is just how it's going to be for
most fan bases. So then let him pitch it out.
You're still going to get a comp pick. And if
he does become a Dodger, there will not be baseball
in 2027 because to your apocalypse now scenario,
the sky's going to fall in and there's going
to need to be a salary cap or stronger luxury
tax. Because right now the Dodgers are rigging
the whole system on that. They'll lose, they
don't care. The way they're structured. They're
not losing. They're signing the best Japanese
players, they're signing the best Korean players,
they're signing the best Latin American players,
they're signing the best United States players.
Our revenue streams are massive. Until baseball
needs to borrow play from the NFL, get their...
The media writes under one umbrella and we've
talked about this on numerous pods how ridiculous
that we subscribe and yet don't have access.
I agree. To our local teams, you know, and that
happens to me twice a year when the Tigers play
the Cubs and the White Sox. A lot of things baseball
needs to fix. Unfortunately, we're not quite
there yet. No, no, we're not. And we're on the
precipice of losing at two times Cy Young because
we can't compete monetarily with these other
teams. We just can't. So, we will update you,
Tigers listeners, as more unfolds on this. If
anything pops, tune into us. Outside of that,
can't wait for pitchers and catchers to report.
Happy Holidays, and we're signing off. Go Tigers.
Go Tigers! That's going to do it for this episode
of the Litterbox, a Detroit Tigers podcast. Thanks
for hanging out with us. We're Bill and Chet.
We'll be back soon with more Tigers Talk. If
you're enjoying the show, be sure to follow or
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minute, leave us a quick review. Until next time,
go Tigers.