Look, we get it, Tiger fans. We know the baseball
season can be a grind. Luckily, when you're ready
to trade hot dogs for tailgates, we've got you
covered with Litterbox, a Detroit Lions podcast.
It's the same unfiltered Detroit sports talk
you get here, just with more biting kneecaps
and fewer bullpen meltdowns. So when Sunday rolls
around, don't just pace around like AJ Hinch
waiting for a reliever. Fire up Litterbox, a
Detroit Lions podcast, wherever you're listening
now, and roar with us through the NFL season.
Billy P from The D and Chet here. Thank you all
for listening to Litterbox, a Detroit Tigers
podcast. If you enjoy the show, please make sure
you hit that subscribe button so that you never
miss an episode. We'd love hearing your thoughts
too. Leave us a rating or just drop us a comment.
Please let us know what you think and whatever
you want us to cover next. Your feedback really
helps us grow and keeps the Tigers talk rolling
all season long. Go Tigers and thank you. You're
listening to the Litterbox, a Detroit Tigers
podcast with your hosts, Chet West and Bill Patterson.
The Tigers finally won one. However, that changes
nothing for this pod co -hosts opinion. The two
losses to the guardians, five two on Tuesday
and five one on Wednesday. Basically, I think
the season ended there and I am as upset as I've
ever been. I'm going to use this platform to
vent a little. Chet, what are your thoughts?
Take the other side of this, Bill. And I had
to do a deep dive in my emotional toolbox here
to figure out how to be positive on this whole
entire situation. But there was a time not long
ago, prior to, well, let's just say July of 2024,
when late season baseball meant absolutely zero
to the Detroit Tigers organization and their
fan base. We had nothing. to look forward to.
We didn't have any players that had any redeeming
qualities, really. We didn't have much. There
was a gap there of about a six to seven year
period where things were just in the toilet.
And Detroit baseball was an afterthought. Now
we have a back to back Cy Young. We have. Cadre
of young players who show some promise and we
have some coming up through the pipeline I'm
gonna use that little pipeline thing there that
you know Scott Harris is probably gonna use at
the end of this season Regardless of the result.
So I'm a little more positive thinking let's
look at what we have not what we don't have Okay,
real quick. That's the second time on this pod.
You've brought up a back -to -back Cy Young winner
He hasn't won. He hasn't won the Cy Young this
year. You should okay, but he but he hasn't You're
right. He hasn't won it yet, but he should and
at least he's up there contending He'll be in
the top two race. Yes, you're gonna be the runner
-up or the Cy Young winner so I shouldn't say
back but but a a Potential back -to -back. Yeah.
No, I I think it's fair and you're right. You're
right in correcting me you bringing up you're
bringing up an excellent point and let me explain
my position and Feel free to poke holes as you
want. Okay. I just think that I'm coming slowly
down off this cloud. And if we, the cloud being
this magical run they've been on since August
of last year. I mean, it happened the middle
of August and it's been nothing short of amazing.
It's been nothing short of fun. And I still sit
here and can't help but wonder if the problem
isn't bigger than Scott Harris because I also
happened to be a pretty big hockey supporter
and fan of the Detroit Red Wings. And I'm starting
to draw parallels, whether that's fair or unfair,
Chad, to what this egregiously long rebuild is
going on with the Detroit Red Wings in looking
that, well, Chris Illich is the principal owner
for both these franchises. And were Scott Harris's
instructions at the trade deadline to dumpster
dive because He is, he being Chris Illich, is
not his dad willing to, let's say, operate maybe
not the same margins that would be the key level
of profitability. The Tigers have drawn well
this year. They've given the city something that's
long overdue to cheer about because last season
it was really only two months of, of meaningful
baseball. And I still think, no, there was no
magic rabbit there. But you and I have used the
term get creative. And I've not seen any creativity
from this tiger's front office. And if Scott
Harris gets up there and hides behind the, Hey,
the farm system, the farm system, the farm system,
you have wasted two great years of potential.
And let's hope he wins the Cy Young. I'm a huge
scubal fan. You've wasted two years of that chat.
Yeah. And his value. is now called that out in
our last show. I'm fully aware of that. I mean,
that was my, you know, it's like the lions with
Calvin Johnson and Barry Sanders wasting top
talent. But and but we've already decreased scoobles
value on the trade market, probably to what 80
cents on the dollar, unless they get rid of them
in the hot stove meetings this winter. If they
trade them at next year's deadline. I equate
that to 15 cents on the dollar, 10 cents on the
dollar. And if they just let them walk for nothing,
which maybe, maybe they'll sign them. I don't
think it's a good value to sign them. Let New
York or one of the East coast or West coast teams
pay him that money and focus your efforts elsewhere.
Again, I am going to cringe and feel like I'm
being gaslit if Scott Harris gets up there and
says, well, we made the playoffs. That shouldn't
have been the expectation this season. The expectation
in July in the all star break should have been
you get one of the two top seeds and you compete
for the world series this year with the best
pitcher in baseball in a deep lineup of young
talent. And they needed a leader to lead them
both on them. you know, the mound from the bullpen
standpoint, another starter, and they needed
a big bat that's reliable. I just don't know
that it was out there or that easily obtainable.
I agree with your creativity idea, and they needed
to be more creative. But you just don't know
what's out there. You know, this is part of,
like, as fans, we don't know the other side of
the tale here. Like, I can sit here all day long
and say, we need this, we need this, we need
this. Do you think the front office doesn't see
that? I mean, it's not like they don't want to
win. They want to win. They're just I think it
gets to the point where it's easier to say it.
It's harder to do it when you're in their situation
and they don't have ownership who's going to
go out there and buy winning teams. They're just
not the Dodgers. They're not the Yankees. And
I know you're you're picking on the owners more
here, probably a little more here than you are
the GM, because you want to see them back this
team financially the way that the that the elder
illich backed his teams back in the teens financially
yeah but that also that also created a you know
a quite a deficit in those latter teen years
that they had to dig out from underneath they
were in the red for a while it's been well reported
they lost money on the team. The Illiches didn't
lose any money, but the team lost some money.
I, you know, I think the construct of baseball
is a tough one for fans to wrap themselves around,
but wrap their heads around the business concept.
You know, you've got these no salary cap. So
teams that can can spend wildly. You've seen
what's happened to the twins with no television
revenue coming in. And it's our expectation that
these billionaire owners are just going to lose
money on one of their ventures. I keep going
back. They're not billionaires. They wouldn't
be billionaires if they were willing to lose
this kind of money. They're business people first.
They're smart people. They don't want to lose
money on a baseball team when they can make money
on a baseball team. That's the decision you're
being given. Make money or lose money. And we
can point to the New York Mets whose owner is
a billionaire running it like a fan and they're
struggling mightily. Their team is still bad
to a degree. I mean, they still do not run things.
It's just you're right. You're dead right. That's
a fantastic example. And then it comes down to,
well, do you want to lose money and not get to
the World Series or the playoffs? Because the
Mets are eyeballing that right now. Yes. I mean,
that's a that's a very real scenario. And there's
a team that traded for Ryan Halsey at the deadline.
And Ryan Halsey basically pooped the bed. Yes.
I mean, the guy didn't perform. And that's a
that's they gave up young talent. They've given
up money and they still aren't getting what they
want baseball is an imperfect sport where that's
concerned So coming back to my fandom there's
two two things can be true at once One, I don't
know the parameters that the illich family and
chris illich put on sure scott harrison company
There's a lot of unknowns for us. So we don't
know that. Number two, when I say get creative,
I'm still and we've brought it up ad nauseam,
but the Rafael Devers trade, like just thinking
outside the box. And I guess what I don't want
is the front office to get up in front of us.
And I'll use the gaslight again, get up there
and say, Hey, you know, it was an epic collapse.
We didn't see it coming. You know, these guys
are better than that. You know, Nobody stepped
up, so on and so forth. And Chet, the fact remains,
you and I documented this for months, that players
like Z -Mack, Matt Vierling, were playing so,
they were punching so far above their normal
weight. Claybar Torres, Javier Baez, or Javi
Baez, whatever we want to call him. And outside
of Riley Green and Dylan Dingler, there hasn't,
I guess, Torque, there hasn't been real reliable
offense. And I get the teams young, but boy,
oh boy, I just wish the Tigers had given us something
more than dumpster diving. And so my concern
is, is Scott Harris looking at metrics that are
not applicable or not accurate? Or was it, hey,
you don't have the budget to do it because we're
still paying this awful Javier Baez salary. And
this is the first year we've really drawn. in,
you know, almost almost a decade. And I'm different
than my dad. I'm not going to, you know, I'm
not a sports fan. I wasn't a Detroit Tigers farm
hand like my dad. I am going to run it is a smart
business person should have profits and losses.
And, you know, if we're not making 20 % on this
or whatever the number is, then no. And so I
think the days of yore when the owners put their
emotions behind a team, I think the money is
just too much these days. I think the investment
in the outlay is just so much that you have to
have a business mind to deal and run these teams,
or you have to say no and you have to have limits.
And I think baseball, of all the sports that
we have, I think baseball is so due for a salary
cap, it's ridiculous. And I will say this. And
I'm stealing this a little from a Friends podcast
called Roster to Rings. Listen to the Roster
to Rings podcast, the latest episode from this
past week they had Jason Garrett on. They talk
about the 2026 CBA that's coming up and how the
salary cap is going to be in huge focus coming
around the corner here. One of the solutions
or one of the offerings to this should be salary
floor likewise. And they deep dive it, they do
a much better job than you and I ever will discussing
the monetary, the finances around all these things.
But I think that the salary cap is necessary
in baseball to keep these teams in business,
A, but B, also to keep the competitive balance,
but put the floor in there too. I think a team
like the Pirates or a similar team that never
invests ever in their team monetarily, Finishes
in last place or second to last every season.
You know what if they don't Exceed a certain
amount in salary to show they're competing and
willing to compete on a year -in year -out basis
Don't give them their revenue sharing Don't give
them their money Penalize them, you know and
in European football we have relegation We have
penalties most teams get relegated to lower leagues.
They don't draw as well. They don't get the finances.
They don't get the the monies that come along
with being in the Premier League. Maybe that's,
you know, maybe we got to penalize some of these
teams for not trying hard enough. I couldn't
agree more. So if we're going to look at it holistically,
yes, baseball needs a salary cap. Yes, there
needs to be a salary floor. Baseball's biggest
issue we've talked about, though, is how hard
it is to access the game and that the Dodgers
have their own network. The Yankees have their
own network. The Red Sox have New England Sports
Network. The Cubs have marquee. And the problem
is you and I pay for MLB app and I'm blocked
or I'm blacked out of, you know, two of 30 teams.
Yeah. Yeah. So a whole nother business failure
of the LB. It's like you. Yeah, I get where you're
going with that. That's another thing that needs
to be worked out. OK, so let's talk about the
here and now. Yeah, I winning one of three, I
guess. What does it do for the Tigers? I'll tell
you what, they're back in first place. OK, but
they lost first place. They got it back. They
get they won a game. They really had to win.
But they still lose all tiebreakers. Yep. Because
the moment the Guardians have taken that series,
you know, for the year. So now we go to Fenway
Park, which is going to be fun. I mean, what
a great way to end it. Yeah. I mean, and this
goes back to my like Two years ago, two seasons
ago, we had nothing. I know, I know, I know.
I mean, what a great way to end a baseball season.
So we've got Mize on the bump tonight going up
against Harrison. Actually, I'd like the Tigers
chances in this one. Harrison's, it's Kyle Harrison.
He's 24 years old. He is a lefty and he's ERA.
This year is 3 .58. His whip is 1 .19. I still
think the Tigers, I give them a puncher's chance
now that they finally got the monkey off their
back. And I think they can win two of three.
The question is, is that going to be enough?
Given the other two things that we have to scoreboard
watch now. The Guardians are playing the Rangers.
Who are still, I believe, mathematically alive,
but hanging on life support. Right. Yes. Yes.
Okay. And that is in Cleveland. And then we also
have to pay attention to the Astros who are traveling
to Anaheim to play the angels. And so, yeah,
it's fun. Uh, first places. You know, back in
play, the Tigers are two and eight in their last
10. Nowhere to go but up. I certainly hope they
take two of three from the Red Sox. But at this
point, what worries me is they're sitting at
86 and 73, the same as the Guardians. The Red
Sox are a game ahead of them. 87 and 72 and have
not clinched a playoff spot. The Mariners clinched
the AL West with 90 wins. Uh, currently Toronto
has 91 wins. So did the Yankees. So getting one
of those top two seeds is completely off the
table. And then you've got the Houston Astros
who won yesterday against the athletics, a game
behind you at 85 and 74. So, uh, it's basically
three teams for two spots. And you back into
it if Houston just loses out Right. Yes, and
well for Boston is playing for something right
now So we got to go to boston to play a team
that's playing for something at the moment that
which it's That we might have to end up playing
one of these teams in a three game series next
week Who would you write? I mean it is it is
the question right now if the season ends today
You're playing cleveland in the first round of
the playoffs, which The last thing I want to
see is more of Stephen freaking Kwan. I don't
want to see any more of him. He, I'll tell you
right now. You've brought him into focus for
me. He is, he does all the right things. He's
awesome. If you want to look at the Cleveland
baseball team, they do all the things the Tigers
don't do. They play small ball. They, I mean,
hell, half their runs from this past week's series
were like bunts and moving guys over and doing
the little things. Yeah, I lost my belief in
this team and don't want them to back door in
because I think they'll have no momentum. I think
they'll be dead in the water. Sure. That all
being said, Chet, I actually would prefer they
play the Guardians in a three game set next week
because they can't play any worse against the
Guardians. Can they? I don't think they can.
As a matter of fact, I think it's there is some
upside to playing the Guardians to one degree
or another. I just there are like our unicorn.
We cannot solve them year in and year out. It
becomes very difficult to watch one team beat
you consistently and do it with like what amounts
to Chinese water torture. Basically drips and
drops here and there. It's not like they blow
us out. It's not like that You know, it's almost
like hey, we've got the hope and then it gets
ripped away in the sixth or seventh inning I
will I I'm just happy we're doing postseason
baseball and this goes back to my original theme
here I'm happy. We're in the postseason I'm happy
that these games are meaningful I do find it
interesting that we did something amazing last
year and we may do something even more amazing
in the other end of the spectrum this year. Yes
But it's it is what it is and I'd rather have
this than nothing and being uncompetitive in
September Agreed and it makes for good potting
for the fact that we can sit We can we can sit
here on opposite ends of the spectrum saying
similar things, but yet coming at it from different
angles people It's about the content. So here's
what worries me I think Mize is going to have
a good outing tonight. I think the Tigers, again,
that monkey off their back, I expect them to
win tonight. Going up against a lefty is going
to present its own challenges, but I think some
of our hitters are due. What concerns me is tomorrow
it's the 3 -10 game of the week in that Saturday
afternoon slot to be determined on every website
I'm looking at for our Detroit Tigers going up
against Connolly Early, who doesn't have a lot
of history, is one and one, 1 .88 ERA, 22Ks,
1 .12 whip. So there's not a lot of tape out
there. There's not a lot of, you know, anything
to go off of. And then Sunday, we've got Scoobal
on the bump again, and the Red Sox this time
are to be determined. So it's going to operate
like a playoff series, which Should hone the
Tigers fairly well for the postseason which I'm
gathering that you're expecting almost at this
point where I still think they could not make
it and Yeah, it there is definitely a chance.
They don't make it. Don't get me wrong I'm not
I'm not banking on anything. I'm just saying
a I love how exciting it is and B if they do
somehow get through this and get into the playoffs
They're battle -tested, baby. I mean, they're
ready to roll. There's no downtime. There's no
waiting around. They've been in the playoffs
for the past week, as far as I'm concerned. That's
what this has been like. So you've done a great
service to me, because you've pretty much talked
me off the tiger's ledge that I was on. That's
all I wanted to do today. Yeah. So not only are
you a good friend, you're a great co -host. and
getting me back on board, excited for what's
gonna happen tonight, excited for what's gonna
happen tomorrow, and watching with bated breath
on Sunday. So for that, I thank you, and I hope
the Tigers deliver on this, and agreed. It's
a lot more exciting now than it was five seasons
ago when we were looking at call -ups that are
no longer part of the organization. And people,
you could always be a Rockies fan. You could
always be a Pirates fan. You could always be
an Angels fan who have had one of the best baseball
players of our time and paired with the other
and still never getting to the playoffs. You
could be, you know, any one of these fan bases.
You could be an A's fan losing your team to another
city, but you're not. You're a Tigers fan. Your
team is in the mix in the final week of the season.
Don't take that for granted. We can go back the
other way real fast. Let's see what happens at
Fenway. Look. No expectations at this point,
other than I'm going to enjoy at least watching
a game or two of baseball one way or the other.
Hopefully it's enjoying watching three more games
of baseball in this season. It's going to be
done pretty soon. Six games totals. We're going
to come back next spring. The flowers will blossom
and we'll have hope renewed. Hope renewed. And
we'll do it all over again. Excellent. So let's
see what happens here in the final three games.
Go Tigers. Go Tigers. All right, that's gonna
do it for this episode of the Litterbox, a Detroit
Tigers podcast. Thanks for hanging out with us.
We're Bill and Chet. We'll be back soon with
more Tigers Talk. If you're enjoying the show,
be sure to follow or subscribe on Spotify, Apple
Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
And hey, if you got a minute, leave us a quick
review. Till next time, go Tigers.