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and thank you. You're listening to the Litterbox,
a Detroit Tigers podcast with your hosts, Chet
West and Bill Patterson. Tiger fans, it's Bill
and Chet here, your Litterbox hosts. We are at
the end. We have about six games to figure this
thing out. We have a series coming up against
the Cleveland Indians that is extremely important
and we will cap it all off. Against a Red Sox
team that is still in the hunt looking for a
playoff spot We didn't get the best luck with
our end of season schedule this year. I will
say that I Would much rather be playing the lower
end of these divisions like maybe the twins or
Heck even give me the Royals from our division.
But at this point we get to challenge ourselves
And we are not living up to the challenge. Bill,
what are your thoughts? Luck has nothing to do
with it. This team's bad and Scott Harris should
not keep his job given what little was done to
try to help this team in whatever silly saber
metrics or algorithm he has going. Everything
should have told him that these players would
revert back to whom they were and have been their
entire careers. And I'm looking at a few players
in particular, but ZMAC, Matt Vierling, I know
he's hurt right now, and then Gleybar Torres.
It was unrealistic to think that they were going
to continue with the toured pace they were at.
What do you have to say about those three? So
I agree with you, actually, on all three of those
guys. I want to throw somebody else in there.
Where did Javier Baez go in the month of September?
Where he usually goes, he reverted from Javier
back to Javi. Can we can we talk about kind of
his? Dissent here, and I don't know. I mean we
gave We gave a lot of press to have your bias.
He deserved praise He did gave a lot of it. I
mean, I'm I'm still gonna give him one shout
No matter how bad his batting's gotten Chet the
fact that he played Not serviceable not good
But in an elite level center field, having never
played it before in the major leagues is still
nothing short of remarkable. If only baseball
had designated fielders, like they have designated
hitters, he could be ideal. He might have a career
until he's 42. Do you have, they do have designated
fielders. They're called AAA baseball players.
Do you have, so I'm curious. If they'd kept Javi
in center field, do you think his season would
have gone differently? At the plate? No. at the
plate. Okay, so you think this was doomed, this
wasn't some vibe or mojo he was working off of
in center field that he could have kept going
all season. No, I don't think that. I think that
we're seeing a reversion to the norm in the four
players we're talking about now. I should have
probably brought some scorched earth Javi's way,
but I didn't. I brought him to the fray because
he's been the worst hitter in the month of September
on the team. Yeah, and so I would love you to
start going through some of the metrics, and
if you don't mind, You know, after you give your
exclamation point, I'll weigh in on it. If I
can do one thing really quick. The Tigers obviously
were swept this weekend against the Atlanta Braves
team. They lost 10 to one on Friday. They lost
six to five on Saturday. They lost six to two
on Sunday. Quick math tells us that the Braves
scored 22 runs and the Tigers managed eight runs.
But if you amortize that they scored five Saturday.
And you're just not it's it's not they are playing
playoff baseball now Chet and I'm fired up and
here's why They were up 15 and a half games over
the Royals at that time and the twins believe
it or not the Guardians were in fourth place
on July 8th And if the Tigers do botch this it'll
be the biggest division lead lost in the history
of baseball You have to go back to 1914, the
year Wrigley Field was built, the year that the
friendly confines became a thing. If you're Scott
Harris right now, and you're sitting there at
the interview podium, season's over, and we don't
make the playoffs, what are you saying? Like,
what is your response to that whole entire thing?
How do you even answer what happened, Scott?
I don't even know how I would answer it other
than... We left the cupboard bare in too many
places and or we didn't think would be this good
again We thought the pundits were gonna be right
and we had no shot at getting to the postseason
Which either way is just a terrible indictment
on the management of this club He can't say that
when one week ago they had a 99 % chance But
then what's the excuse is it just rolling the
dice and hoping everything all you know? The
team keeps playing at a level that was well above
their mean I think his only out is to hide behind
the farm system and the value that's there and
that their assets Especially at eerie. Yeah were
so valuable that there was nothing out there
or anybody's asking price for Suarez who ended
up going to the Mariners outside of that I'm
still gonna say the Devers move was the single
biggest move in season this year And nothing
else really jumped out at me. You know, I actually
Kyle Finnegan has been fantastic. He allowed
his first run Saturday as a tiger outside of
that. Scott Harris did nothing. So I think the
again, answering your question, the only thing
he can hide behind is that there's so many assets
there that they have financial flexibility because
of Javier is the only major contract and that
maybe They exceeded expectations all season to
your point as well. And the pundits point. You're
going to hear, oh, well, you know, we lost free
salsa and we lost Jackson job. Well, the injuries
happen. You got to have a well -stocked squad
and we thought we did we remember we talked at
the beginning of the season We're like, wow,
I don't know if you know, we have enough opportunities
to go around for all these guys We got a good
problem here. We have seven starting pitchers.
We've got you know, remember this we're having
these conversations and Exactly. There are a
lot of guys that didn't pan out there were injuries
but only two We could have I think played those
scenarios differently. I've got a counterpoint
to this sure If I may, when Parker Meadows and
Matt Vierling were out, the Tigers played excellent
baseball at the beginning of the year. So the
injuries, you can't use it to your advantage.
You're not, I'm saying Scott Harris can't use
it both ways. And unfortunately, those of us
with short memories might not, but I hope the
beat writers hold him accountable. And I hope
the national media holds him accountable. If
this collapse does go through the way that you
and I, After a six game losing streak and the
teammate your heels has won 11 of 12 We have
every right to feel the way we're feeling I think
you're gonna hear a lot of kind of we crested
this hump way before we thought we were going
to or We feel we probably got lucky in the first
half of the season which a lot of people I think
think they did we did not expect to be competing
this early in the process And last year was we
figured was an aberration. And this year we were
going to be back down there and maybe agreeing
with what a lot of the pundits had said at the
beginning of the season that they didn't have
a postseason shot. But here they were competing.
Hell, one of the best teams in baseball in the
power rankings forever in the first two thirds
of this season. And how do you run a team not
expecting to compete? Scott, can I poke a hole
in your argument there? This is Dave, please
do catch Detroit Free Press. Why did you go all
in on Alex Bregman if you didn't think you could
compete this year? That's a great I see. That's
an excellent thought. And why what I don't understand
is you went kind of all in on one guy, but then
just back completely off of everything else.
So I don't really understand. I just don't understand
the gamesmanship here by the front office. What
was left, though, after that point? Because at
that point, there wasn't a whole lot out there.
Well, you know what? I'll go back to you. They
could have gotten creative at the start of the
season. A hundred percent. I mean, they could
have been creative at the trade deadline, too.
I just don't know that creativity is there anymore,
because I think creativity starts looking a little
like desperation, and you start throwing things
out there that maybe you shouldn't. It worked
for San Francisco, obviously. I don't know if
it would have worked as well for us. And it worked
for San Francisco because at the beginning of
the season, we thought that Rafael Devers wouldn't...
that he was going to be okay with Bregman being
at third base. Sure. Or at least not... do what
he did, which John Henry and company thought
was a toxin or a disease in the clubhouse. Maybe
they thought they had a third baseman in Jace
Young. Maybe they thought they had a third baseman
in him and that he was going to be the answer.
I don't know. Do you know that Young has now
been called up and how many home runs do you
think he's hit in his major league career? I
don't even know. I don't. I haven't even. Is
it a big zero? It's a goose egg, Chet. Yeah.
Well, he doesn't have that many at -bats, but
he's had enough. And so, if I can go through
this. Yeah. Parker Meadows regressed to his worst
mean, and we have our three big bats, Torque,
Green, and Carp. Do you know that they are all
within five to six points of having OPSs below
800? Yeah. Those are your big bats. Which is
out of nowhere now. Because that was our big,
you know. That was what we were leaning on for
months was, wow, the OPS is still up there. So
one last, this is going to be from, I don't know,
Chris Solari or, you know, with the Lansing State
Journal. What? Why could you justify trading
any type of asset to sign Charlie Morton, who
you knew had a really high ERA when you traded
for him, only to get him? Watch him promptly
assist in losing, by my count, three to four
games with bad starts, bad pitching, putting
the bullpen in awkward positions. You could probably
double that number, Chet. And then cutting him,
which they just cut him outright this past weekend.
Well, and the interesting thing about cutting
him, it could have been him. It could have been
Paddock. Paddock got the bullpen roll. I think
they see him as like a younger, more, you know.
Has maybe a little more possibility in front
of them, but like I don't you could cut either
one of them There's both their stats have been
terrible and those were our two big Acquisitions
during the whole trade deadline so non Kyle Finnegan
non Kyle Finnegan if you want to you know Say
non Kyle Finnegan, but neither one of those guys
belongs on a roster right now. It's amazing They
should both be designated so Morton got the designation
deserves it. I mean he's He's looked pretty pitiful,
especially in the last month. He gave us three
good starts back in August. So did Paddock, gave
us two or three good starts, but the rest of
their starts have been absolute blowups. The
other thing to call out here, what's a shame
is Parker has actually looked pretty good since
he came back from injury in September. He could
have been a good help down the stretch. Guy by
the name of Spencer Torkelson, I'm gonna fanboy
this guy a little more for you here. You know
he's batting like 297 this month? He has a crazy
batting average in the month of September right
now and he's got an off -the -charts babbitt.
It's like 405 or sport 50 He's getting lucky,
but he's getting hits and he's still hitting
He's been kind of one of the only guys Who has
kept an entire season of consistency together?
I look today in the in the stats and granted
he hasn't been incredible all the time He sits
right around that 240 245 kept his OVP up Above
800 the whole time. I think you know Spencer
deserves a little tip of the cap for his 2025
season It's not been incredible, but it's been
consistent and he has produced Riley green on
the other hand is striking out at a 30 % clip
in the month of September and His batting average
is in the toilet. It's below 200 right now for
the month Riley has you know look he's Team leader
and every offensive category in the season But
he decided to disappear at the most critical
time of the year and for a guy who already gets
railed on for his clutchness his ability to be
clutch Like this is yet another hit towards that
now. He's young. Did you know here's the craziest
thing? I was kicking around tiger stats trying
to make sense of what the heck's going on He
is the second youngest player position player
on our team Been making that argument behind
colt Keith. I've been making that argument all
year that he's still 24 Colt keys 23 Riley's
24 turns 25 at the end of this month in about
six days But he's still the youngest position
player. We've got right now and he's gonna believe
it He's been up for since he was 20. Yeah. Yeah,
he's been up for a couple years. So he's got
He's got a ways like, right? We're not even to
his peak yet. Whatever times on his side would
be the totally only argument you can make. And
we have control of him through the twenty twenty
eight season. So he starts our in twenty twenty
six. And if he delivers, then you pay him. And
if he doesn't, then it's an easy decision. So
and you still got some really good years. I mean,
he's still an above average ballplayer. He's
just not the guy you can. build this type of
franchise around because, unfortunately, the
previous regime decided that signing Javier or
Javi Baez was a great idea when his plate discipline
and his slug had been on the decline already.
So, all right, I think we've covered a lot of
what we think is terrible. We have three games
upcoming against the Guardians in Cleveland and
what I find fascinating, Chet, is I think the
Tigers hit the panic button officially because
Tarek Scoobal is starting tomorrow evening on
Tuesday, which means the Tigers bumped him up
even though they had an off day. So it's really
not that big of a deal, but they bumped up his
schedule start from Wednesday to Tuesday so that
he can pitch Tuesday against the Guardians and
Sunday against the Red Sox. Which means if the
Tigers have to be in the wild card round, he
will be unavailable for one of a three game series.
Going all in to get into the postseason right
now after we've had the dominant season that
we had up until the month of September. It's
quite interesting. So if you weren't all in to
win Scott Harris in company, yeah, that's another
hole we can point at you because you would delay
the guy that probably will not. Resign with you
after next season because he's been Eric Scoobel
the only tiger outside of I agree with your torque
props And then we've got to give a little more
Dylan Dingler love. Yeah, however There is an
alarming stat on Dylan Dingler. He does not walk
to do with strikeouts No, he doesn't walk. Yeah,
he strikes out quite a bit, too So he needs to
learn because if he doesn't learn how to take
pitches he is gonna get abused in the postseason
if they make it and he'll have a very short major
league career because they'll know how pitchers
will learn how to pitch to them. You can't hit
everything. So, all right. What's your prediction
for the upcoming series, Chet? I a couple of
things that I'll say here. I don't remember the
last time the Tigers blew a premium player in
his premium years like they. Like, they have
with Scubal two Cy Youngs in a row. This is almost
something out of, like, a Lions -esque thing,
with, like, Calvin Johnson or Barry Sanders at
this point. They still have an 85 % chance, but
they gotta get some work done here in the last
couple games of the season. I'm gonna say that
we get... This is a tough one. This is really
tough. I dread the Red Sox series more than I
actually dread this Cleveland series, in an odd
way. Even though it's just the perfect like the
Red Sox series sets up as the perfect letdown
for this team Like even if they go two out of
three against Cleveland here I don't think they're
sweeping them if they go two out of three against
Cleveland here and we come out of this thing
two games up I could just see him just getting
swept out of Boston and the thing ending with
giving odd giving it all up Just giving it all
up and won three games. Just giving it all back.
To end the season. I just hate to say it, but
I can see that happening. And this mirrors the
Twins' collapse last year in a lot of ways, too.
Yeah, it does. That we all mocked and made fun
of and then we enjoyed because it worked for
us. And now it's... It helped the Tigers' fortunes.
I don't know that... It did. The Twins have won
that division so many years with teams that you
knew would do nothing in the playoffs. Yes, and
now we've become instead of you know, the hunted
becoming the hunter The tigers like we're the
hunter all year and now they are Yeah, it's I
I get what you're saying and yeah, I get what
you're saying. Don't I I think we get one game
out of the next three against the Indians I'm
hoping for two. No way we I sweet They definitely
get two out of three. You think so? Okay, that's
I'm feeling pretty confident about that against
it And then we'll follow up with that, but go
Tigers. Those of you that are sticking with it,
stay true. Keep the faith. Go Tigers. All right.
That's going to do it for this episode of the
Litterbox, a Detroit Tigers podcast. Thanks for
hanging out with us. We're Bill and Chet. We'll
be back soon with more Tigers Talk. If you're
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