Bill, would you have liked to be a fly on the
wall during the Taylor Decker contract negotiations
that just came to a close? Can we call it? Yes,
I would love to be that fly on the wall chat.
Can we call it a negotiation if there is no negotiating?
I don't think there was a negotiation. I don't
believe I believe a a situation was presented
and said players said, Nope, I'm going to free
agency and Please release me. Yeah. This is the
Litterbox, a Detroit Lions podcast with your
hosts, Chad West and Bill Patterson. Lions Litterbox
fans, welcome back. We're doing a little more
off season coverage here for you. We've got some
news. on a few players or former players. We're
going to give you some of these updates, some
restructuring of contracts that could potentially
come down the pike here. Say goodbye to David
Montgomery, Taylor Decker, Graham Glasgow. Give
our thoughts on that. And then a little free
agent outlook. Who's our guy? Who do we want
him to go after? And then we're going to give
you our thoughts on Brad Holmes and how much
we may trust him. and his ability to find and
fill these gaps with the correct players. Phil,
we've had some news in Lion Land over the past
couple of weeks. It would be our job to update
our listeners on a few of these items. What sticks
out to you the most over the last couple of weeks
here with all the restructuring and the deals
and the cuts? We're still waiting on a lot of
restructuring, namely Jared Goff's, potentially
St. Brown and potentially Sewell's contracts
being converted to more cash upfront, voidable
years, et cetera, which should free up a ton
of money for the Lions to be aggressive and free
agency. At the time of this recording, which
is Saturday, we still don't know anything about
that. There's been no news on that, but ahead
of the league year, I think we're all expecting
something like that to happen. So Mike Dissner
and Brad Holmes will sharpen the pencils and
get the Lions free and clear. With that being
out, Chet. I am going to miss Montgomery as a
player. I'm going to miss Decker as a player.
I think Glasgow's time had come to an end. I
think he maybe played one more year. I also think
that what the Lions did was really unfair. He
was a good left guard. He was never a great professional
center. And what the Lions did last year was
absolutely crazy trying to either slide him or
Tate Ratledge over and not... trying to backfill
the huge void left by Frank Ragnow's retirement.
I mean, in defense of that, Ragnow did kind of
leave them a little high and dry in that situation.
I don't know all of the facts around how long
they knew he was going to retire or when the
actual decision was made, but they can't really
act until it is, right? So they're kind of left
a little hanging there. So part of that was the
good faith. And that's one of the topics I want
to talk about today is the Lions have always
really under this current regime taking care
of their own. They've extended guys, a lot of
guys, probably prematurely. And some of those
make sense. You know, with St. Brown, Sewell,
and Jamo, they actually saved money against the
market rate. I think Goff's getting pretty fair
market value on that. But again, they've tried
to avoid like say what the Dallas Cowboys do
where they're paying an exorbitant amount for
CD -LAM, you know, top of the market for receivers.
Same thing for Dak Prescott. And essentially
that's why the Cowboys probably moved on from
Micah Parsons. Bringing us back to the Detroit
Honolulu Blue and Silver Lions check. My thoughts
are this. Having two running backs that are elite
was always a luxury that I don't think the Lions
Ever thought they'd find themselves in that situation
when they extended Montgomery after his initial
contract I thought it was one of the oddest things
they'd ever done It happened during the season
and it was not a matter of if but it was when
David Montgomery would get moved We joked in
the intro about the Taylor -Decker no negotiation
or very poor one -sided negotiation. Chet, the
fact is all we hear about is culture, culture,
culture, you know, the Lions culture. Guys want
to be here. Well, isn't it weird that Montgomery,
hey, I'm not getting enough carries. I don't
want to be here. Get me out. Hey, Decker, we
want you to take a reduced salary because we're
not sure you're going to make it through 17 games.
Nope. I'm not willing to do that. Release me.
And so What I'm curious to you and to the listeners
about is are we starting to see cracks in this
culture? Or are the Lions just doing what real
franchises do and that's moving off of guys before
they become like Graham Glasgow was last year?
I want you to stop right there because I think
that's the best point in all of that is are they
just acting like a real organization right now
and not getting hung up? On their guys that is
maybe this is the step forward that we're all
looking for in the maturation of the detroit
lions as a football club. That was really well
stated. It would be great if you could do that
again. That's like a quote we need on like a
t -shirt or something. I don't want to wear that
around town. The next step in the maturation
of the Detroit line. I think it may be. Now,
I agree. The other side of that is did we just
let go of a guy who's going to be a Pro Bowl
left tackle this year? No, I don't think we did.
I think those days for Decker are over, right?
I think those days for Glasgow are in the rear
view mirror. I'm sad to see them go like you.
David Montgomery, I still think has a lot of
I don't think since his knee injury two seasons
ago I don't think he showed quite the same grit
and determination in his runs that he did two
years ago now Running backs get beat up. They
get injured Okay, I am I'm not gonna sit here
and say that I expect David Montgomery, especially
the way he runs to stay healthy 24 7 365 he is
going to go to the Texans now and I believe get
used in that same role Who knows if he stays
healthy all season long. They've been trading
away offensive line pieces left and right. Who's
going to block for him at this point? But best
of luck to David Montgomery. I think it was probably
career wise, maybe the best move for him at this
moment. He was going to be behind Gibbs going
forward. What else? What do you think of some
potential cap conversions here, Bill? What do
you think we can do to restructure some contracts?
We look at golf, right? He's right off the bat.
First and foremost. He is due, his cap number
rises 69 .6 million next season. A simple salary
conversion plus two void years can open up a
much needed 42 .9 million of space per spo track.
So these conversions are basically, they're just
taking salary, turning it into a signing bonus,
restructuring a contract. The guy doesn't theoretically
lose money in the end. He's just getting more
of it up front. It comes off of our bottom line
towards the cap. We save space. And actually
it's a good thing for players for the fact that
you have the bird in hand is the signing bonus
and you're converting more of that to one time
lump sum payments opposed to having, you know,
in your game checks, which can also be null and
void, you know, when the team decides to release
you, et cetera. I read a really interesting article
today. A team that struggled mightily and refuses
to do this. happens to be the Las Vegas Raiders.
They do not convert. It's like a philosophy within
the Raiders. Really? Is it Al Davis philosophy?
No conversions? No conversions. I don't know
if it's passed on to him, to Mark, to whomever's
running the Raiders at this point. They've cycled
through, what, four general managers in the last...
And lo and behold, they're a terrible team and
have been for a while. Exactly, where you look
at the smartly run franchises, you know, the
Chiefs, Ravens, Broncos, you know, let's talk
about the Rams and 49ers. This is the secret
sauce. Well, you're taking unguaranteed money
and turning it into guaranteed money in a lot
of these situations, right? To some degree or
another. Which is how you play the cap game,
but also, Chet, you've got happy campers from
the fact you've never heard a player say... You
see how often players are willing to restructure.
You know it has to work well for them in the
end. Plus, they're thinking, I'm going to get
better players around me. We're going to be a
better team. Anybody who's a winner wants that.
So let's talk about this, Chet, because the key
thing is, if this is done, and you and I are
both in the belief, and so are others, that it's
not an if. It's going to be a win. Let's talk
about who are your guys and who do we want if
the Lions are going to be splashing free agency?
Now, Chet, we are hearing mixed reports on this.
Dave Burkett said that he talked to various agents.
at the scouting combine in Indianapolis in that
the Lions were not expected to be major players.
Then you hear a totally different report from
Colton Pouncy from the Athletic. He talked to
people that said the Lions were going to be major
players in this. Well, I would have thought that
honestly, Bill, I would have thought the former
I would have thought that we weren't going to
be that big of a player here. But all of a sudden
you hear all this cap space clearance and stuff
like they're making room to go get guys. And
I think their hand is being forced. I think they
have to be a player now. They need a left tackle.
They need a left guard. They need a center. I
mean, we're going, you know, and if they don't
need a center, they move ratlage over. They need
a right guard. They need three offensive linemen
who are starters. They don't have that on the
roster. outside of Penne and Tate, okay? They
gotta go get three offensive linemen. That's
very expensive. Very expensive. One of those
three is gonna be like Ju Scruggs or something.
We're gonna try and get by with that, right?
But you can't do that at two out of those three
positions. It'll be a nightmare. Plus we've got
defensive backfield issues. We gotta go get guys
there. We got holes to fill there. The draft
is only going to get you a guy or two that can
start at day one at best. If that. And the Lions
are currently sitting at eight draft picks. Hopefully
a ninth will come as a compensatory pick for
Kevin Zeitler signing with the Titans. I agree.
That's great, but I'm sorry. There's no way.
How often does a draft pick start on opening
as a starter at any point in this first season?
I mean, it's just so unlikely. Not, I mean, you
have to hit like you did with. How often do they
start and perform well and help the team? So
free agency's got to be part of this. And this
leads to, you know, I think Montgomery was a
luxury that we couldn't afford. The Texans have
already released Joe Mixon, so they are planning
to utilize David Montgomery. We got a fourth
round pick, Chet, out of it, and a seventh. It
was a great move, plus the salary relief. Taylor
Decker is a bigger problem, Chet. And I wish
the negotiations had gone better, because here's
the fact. I don't know that there's any savings
unless you draft right tackle. And so here's
the expectation, Chet. Penne Sewell moves from
right tackle to left tackle. They're paying him
like a left tackle. And Chet, it's easier to
find a right tackle and it's cheaper to find
a right tackle. How depressed would you be? I'm
throwing this question at you while you're on
this roll here and Penne came up. How depressed
would you be if they moved Penne to left tackle
and he just wasn't that great? Very, very, very
depressed. Would you be shocked? Yeah, because
he's arguably the best athlete in that. One of
the best athletes on the team and he can probably
handle it. He's the best player on the Lions.
It's whose jersey I rock. And you know from being
like a perennial all -pro at right tackle, we
put him in left tackle and he just struggles.
In season one would just be a bad seal. I don't
see it, but I would be really distraught to answer
your question. So talking about guys, we've already
seen some shakeup. at the center position, Chet.
A gentleman by the name of Garrett Bradbury was
traded from the Patriots to division rival Chicago
Bears. So they filled that because their center
that they signed last year in free agency, Drew
Dahlman, retired at age 27. Wish, again, Chet,
that we had known this about Frank Ragnow, and
Frank Ragnow will always kind of, I don't want
to say, time heals all wounds. He retired in
June, Chet, and he really left the Lions in a
bad position for it. And then even worse, they
tried to bring him back. And I heard a rumor,
unconfirmed, but from a former teammate of his
that he was so excited when he got the call that
he sprinted off the couch and that's where he
tore his hammy. Come on. I know. That's incredible.
So I... I'm in a situation now where I'm looking
at our own line and we are hurting and then you
see the Bears just go flip a trade like that.
They lose their center, bam, they got a new center.
A very good one at that. And the Chargers also,
the Reds, or excuse me, Commanders, that's one,
released their center and he was picked up like
that from the Chargers. And then also in the
division, Ryan Kelly retired after 10 season
the Viking Center. So now all of a sudden Chet.
Everybody needs a center. Everybody needs a center
and there's a couple guys in the draft like two
or three but are they day one starters to your
point and so now all of a sudden whatever cap
savings we got with between Glasgow, Decker and
Montgomery. I mean you're going to have to spend
that on a center and then that still means drafting
a right tackle. There's still the potential that
are that new right tackle and ratledge an area
of strength? How does Sewell do move into the
other side? He's going to have a new partner
next to him as a left guard unless it's mahogany.
So you're piling them all on here. They're all
stacking up. And this leads to a question. Yeah.
How much do you trust Brad Holmes to get this
thing done? Yeah, we put this in our notes today.
So I'm going to answer it. Immediately. And then
I'm going to give you my reasons why. Okay. He
is still at a nine out of 10 for me and hear
me out. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I know that DJ Reed
was not the cornerback that we hoped. He was
injured last year, but before that he signed
Carlton Davis, the third who was excellent. And
hindsight being 20, 20, who knew that Carlton
Davis would be a key contributor to the Patriots
Superbowl run. Yep. In addition to that, Chet,
Kevin Zeitler was nothing short of a master stroke.
You know, in 2025, the Lions had the best offensive
line in football. And he was the only non -homegrown
guy, and he was awesome. So I'm going to give
him credit on those two. He also signed Tim Patrick
that was really, really good as, you know, the
third wide out. So I do think there's value there.
Rakyasin is another guy that he just picked up
off the scrap heap. So I believe in Brad Holmes.
The drafts have not been as great as we've wanted.
And here's where I think Brad needs to get back
to his core beliefs. Draft best player available,
don't draft for need, and quit with the projects.
The Giovanni Manus, the Broderick Martins, the
Hendon Hookers are the blemishes on Brad's resume.
The Sioni Vachis, you know, drafting guys that
are the best available athlete. potentially,
but but also huge projects. Stop with that. And
in just get back to drafting Brian branches,
Laporte's, Eileen McNeils, and and we'll let
it handle itself. But yeah, Chad, I counted today.
There are eight holes on this roster that need
to be filled immediately. Eight, potentially
nine draft picks. So the Lions need to be active
and free agency to the tune of three to five
players. I think the draft is a tough one to
judge a GM on in a lot of ways because outside
of your first round pick and maybe your second
round pick, the rest are kind of a dice roll
to one degree or the other. But you're right.
He does seem to move up to get these guys that
he has his heart set on and they don't really
come out on top in the end. I mean, Manu was
a fourth, Vahki a fourth, Hooker a third. but
he traded additional capital on all three examples.
I get where you're going. I get where you're
going, but I don't want to pick on his drafting
as much as I would like to pick on his free agent
signings. Okay, so let's talk. I think it's less
so who they've signed and more so who they haven't
signed or how they haven't gone out and filled
voids with experienced veterans who were out
there to get. I think they are allergic to trading
draft picks, period. I don't think they like
to trade a draft pick for a free agent. I just
don't think they like doing it. That's that's
fair. It's opposite of less need. You know, his
mentor, you know, Los Angeles. Sure. So really
quick, Chad, let's talk about the misses. DJ
Reed would a reader. Excuse me. The defensive
tackle would be one. However, I would argue that
Roy Lopez was Scrapheap and was arguably one
of our best defensive linemen. Does he seem to
do better off the Scrapheap than he does off
of the big signing? Is this where we're going
with this? I would agree with that. I mean, he
finds the Carlton Davis, he finds the Roccasini,
he finds, you know, the... Alex Zaloni was a
great sign. Sure, I think he came with some understanding.
They had some knowledge of him. You know, Campbell
had a lot of knowledge of him from the Saints.
It worked in that example. It did not work with
Marcus Davenport. But when we go to sign the
big guy, you know, I start thinking about the
defensive end and he slipped my mind and I can't
believe he even slipped my mind because what's
his name? Trey Hendrickson. No, the defensive
end we signed and sat injured for two straight
years. Davenport Davenport Marcus Davenport.
We were just talking about Marcus Davenport was
a good disaster. Okay. Well, he's never healthy.
I look at him and it's just like, why are we
signing? Like these are terrible signs. These
are their big ticket signings. And I can't I
can't wrap my head around that. But then we can
go grab stuff off. It's like he's a good scout.
But when it comes to making the big deal, it
never seems to work out or they're trying to
get a certain type of player with that money,
like from a personality or a known quantity standpoint
in there. I don't know. I can't figure it out,
but he can't seem to hit a big signing. So what
is your belief? Where are you on the one through
10 scale on Brad? And then let's get back to
our wish list. I give him this point right now
due to the fact that he, in my opinion, he has
had successful drafts. He has brought quite a
few talented players to the team. I give him
an eight, but in free agency, I just haven't
seen anything. And then on top of that, it's
the lack thereof. the lack of activity in free
agency. I think he needs to do more and he needs
to gamble a little more. I would like to see
him gamble a little more. I would like to see,
look. Nobody in the world wants to trade two
firsts for Max Crosby. And we may say the Ravens
were an air of doing that, but we have somebody
to pair Max Crosby with that would make our defensive
line dominant. And Max Crosby wanted to come
here. I feel like that would have been a good
signing. I would have given two firsts for that
just to see him play great one year like that.
But I like to gamble. I would have given two
firsts for that as well. There's some people
that say you're crazy. I just don't know that
the, what do we have the ninth pick? What do
we have in this year's draft? The seventh pick?
Seventeenth pick. Is the seventeenth pick worth
that much? And maybe they offered it and the,
and you know, the Raiders were like, we don't
want the seventeenth pick. We need a top 10.
Maybe that was their deal. I don't know. I don't
know what they were going for. They got 14 from
the Ravens. So I feel like our seventeenth probably
would have worked if we had thrown in, you know,
next year's first, which hopefully it'll be below
20. And then maybe a sixth or something down
the road to cap it all off and get it done. I
don't know what we had to compete with. Maybe
we were in on it, but you go get a Max Crosby.
That would be a really, that would inject a lot
of energy into this team. Now, does it solve
our offensive line woes? No, it does not. So
we have a bunch of woes there too, that we have
to figure out. Here's my wish list and I see
the Lions doing one of two things. Either this
year is a gap year. They don't restructure all
the deals that we talked about. They focus heavily
on the draft and Brad goes back to the free agent
scrap heap or they do what I would like to see
them do, which is sign Connor McGovern. Center
from the Buffalo Bills. Sure. Dan Campbell said
at his presser he wants a veteran center, someone
to make that go. And then you sign a right tackle
free agent. I've got a name for you that I don't
think was on your bingo card, but I'm real high
on this guy. Trey Pipkins from the Chargers.
It wasn't on my bingo card. Here's why he's a
free agent. He played both right and left tackle
last year, so he's got good versatility. The
reason he played is because both of their tackles,
Rashaun Slater and Joe Ault got hurt early. Those
are their starting tackles. They're both former
first round picks. There's not a place for them.
They can't pay three tackles. And I think if
you got those two moves and then I've got a name
for you on defense, two names actually. One is
going to be more expensive, but he's a free agent
because he plays for a team nicknamed The Bungles,
or formerly played, and that is Trey Hendrickson.
He is Max Crosby Light. I would take him in a
heartbeat. No, I agree. But you don't have to
give up draft capital because he's a free agent.
The problem is he's from the Tampa area and apparently
that's where he might be headed. And then the
other one... It's not quite as exciting. He would
be like a Kevin Zeitler one -year rental And
that would be Khalil Mac again from the Chargers
to pair opposite hutch And then therefore you
have a real pass rush unlike anything Davenport
he who she'll be nameless Shows, what are your
thoughts on what I just shared like I like the
Trey Anderson I think he's the next best option
on the list. I just don't know if we're going
to get him because of what you said. I think
he does want to be down south somewhere in Florida
in your home, whatever. I would rather. I like
the offensive line selections that you made there.
I have no issues there. Do you think that center?
Is a more important selection right now for the
team as composed in a left tackle though? Again,
I don't go after a left tackle. I'm going after
a right. You're going after a right. You want
to move Sewell that bad, okay. So you're moving
Sewell. You're paying him and the only reason
that he didn't move there initially, I mean he
played left tackle. Then I'm going to say a center
is more important personally. Yes. So I'd like
to see them go after a center in free agency
and I would like to see probably We probably
need a guard too though. You could find a swing
tackle and a guard in the draft and you can find
a backup running back in the draft or you traded
all this draft capital to get Sion Vachy. He's
clearly not playing safety for the Lions. Chet,
you got to give him a go at some point. Again,
this is another one of these things that's like...
You see, you look at CEO Mvaki and how high he
was drafted. You want to get something out of
him more than a specialty. Exactly. I feel like
he would have been the guy instead of Craig Reynolds,
if that was the case, when Monty went down and
he's never really filled that role. So I'm I
just don't know what to. what to make of that
situation. And that leads back to, is it a gap
year? Like, do the Lions trot out Manu at one
of the tackle spots? You know, do they trot out
Vahki as the backup or RB2? And, you know, is
Coleslaw kind of... He's not a tight end chap,
but do they line them up closer to the line of
scrimmage and use him more like you'd use like
an Isaiah likely, you know, like a tight end
that's not putting his hand on the ground blocking,
you know. So there's all sorts of possibilities
with it, but I'm leaning more to the lions treating
this as a gap year. And then believing so going
all going all in in twenty seven. There you have
it, fans. This is a gap year. Enjoy the twenty
twenty six Detroit line. Bill has declared it.
We're going nowhere this season. There are too
many holes to fill. I still think they can win
10 games in a gap year chat. Maybe maybe they
could still go to the playoffs. They just got
to take care of their division. Right. But they're
going to have a weaker schedule. All right. Let
me ask you an honest question. Yeah. Yeah. Is
this team? On as it's constructed today. No a
Super Bowl team. No, okay Not a chance 10 wins
is probably so many ways as constructed at the
moment not taking into consideration any free
agent studies I think that's the point of our
whole show here. We we do not have key like in
10 integral pieces needed To get to the Super
Bowl or even the playoffs right now. We are missing
offensive linemen We are missing defensive backs.
You know, they're gonna sign like a a Jaquan
brisker or a Kobe Bryant, somebody to play in
the defensive backfield somewhere. They need
a safety. They probably need a corner. Who knows
what's going to happen now with Terry and Arnold.
Have we heard anything on that? That could go
up in smoke, too. So Tariq Wolin, Naishan Wright,
Jalen Watson, somebody like that, we're going
to end up landing one of those guys in our defensive
backfield, if not two of them, because he likes
signing free agent corners and safeties. And
then we're going to have to go out and find offensive
linemen, too. We're going to have it. I think
we're going to have a ton of signings. So key
dates, right? Monday. Monday is the illegal tampering
or the legal, excuse me, legal tampering period
can start this Monday. Two days from now. That's
what the NFL calls it, the legal tampering period,
which is hilarious. It's tampering, but it's
legal. And then Wednesday is when the free agency
officially starts, league calendar year turns
over, signings can begin. We're going to start
hearing stuff on Monday. Monday's usually a big
day. I always go back to the Kyle Vanden Bosch
deal when the Lions were sitting on his front
doorstep waiting for him that morning to wake
up, basically, and they were like, you're coming
with us. Love that. So maybe we'll get one of
those here on Monday or Tuesday. We'll hear some
news. But I have a feeling over the next... starting
Monday, that three day period's gonna be busy
for the Lions, or it should be. Or my grade for
Brad Holmes is going down to a six, right off
the bat, if we don't get something done. But
I believe we will. Final thoughts, Bill. Get
her done, Brad. Go Lions. Get her done, that's
it. Just get her done, Brad. Or it's a gap year,
one or the other. All right, Lions fans, that's
a little update. We'll be back more towards the
draft probably in about a week or two after free
agency settles down. We figure out what's going
on. Maybe if there's some really big news, we'll
hit you back on Wednesday. We'll see what happens
there. I'm taking off for a little while. Bill
has other things. We'll get back with some updates
as they come. Go Lions.