This is the Litterbox, a Detroit Lions podcast
with your hosts, Chad West and Bill Patterson.
Lions Litterbox listeners, welcome back. We are
back with another episode of the Litterbox, a
Detroit Lions podcast. thought we would keep
everybody abreast of current events here in the
offseason, with the draft rapidly approaching
in a couple months. We have a few things, some
housekeeping items coming up. We're going to
talk a little bit about Rod Wood's retirement.
We're going to talk about Mike Disner being the
next guy up. Decker coming back. Some injury
news on Kirby Joseph, Monty and the plight with
Monty as a running back number two. But first.
I want to get into a term here that Bill taught
us about an episode or two ago, and I've already
forgot the definition tolling and why that matters
with Aleem McNeil and Paschal. Bill, tell us
what's going on with tolling. So, Chet and listeners,
the word of the day is NFL contract tolling.
That's T -O -L -L -I -N -G. It's a mechanism
that pauses a player's contract delaying the
expiration by one year. Typically or usually
when a player is in the final year of their deal
spends the season on the reserve or physically
unable to perform the pup list or the non football
injury NFI list. So basically it behaves just
like a medical redshirt and why this is significant
chat and why I think we might need to give Brad
Holmes a few bouquets on this is because Essentially,
Levi Onzerike and Josh Pascal are now Detroit
Lions opposed to being unrestricted free agents
because of being on the PUP or the NFI list.
And so it was just a matter of paperwork and
now the Lions have depth. Which I'm going to
let you argue that we bought a year with these
two guys. Exactly. Exactly. Now they're going
to have to renegotiate and probably put them
on incentive -laden contracts. Both of them have
been historically hurt their entire careers.
However, Chet, we're looking at a few key things
outside of this. One, this gives defensive tackle
an edge depth, you know, which is nothing more,
nothing less. And with Taylor Decker saying that
he does not want to retire. provided the Lions
medical staff clears him and that all parties
agree that he's good to go. I think this changes
the Lions draft strategy greatly, Chad. Opposed
to needing a tackle potentially in the first
round or maybe even the second round, the tackle
might be able to be pushed on down the line and
defensive tackle probably isn't as big of a priority.
I still think edge is, but their positions might
creep up there like center, safety, some others
on, you know, Sure, no stratosphere. We have
a lot of needs. We still have a lot of needs.
A lot of needs. It's nice to know a couple of
them have been filled due to some contract hijinks.
Yeah, yeah, basically. And again, you know, if
we get the best Levi -Onserike, which is the
one that was signed, you know, to the extension
or the one -year contract after 2024, that's
a great piece to have. And if Josh Pascal can
ever emerge healthy again. Ever. Yes. Another
nice piece. Yeah. Going forward on that while
we stay on injury news. Yeah. Brad Holmes and
the Danimal MCDC both spoke at Indianapolis this
week where they're down for the NFL draft combine
and the injury news on Joseph Kirby, that is
starting free safety is murky to say. You can't
seem to get a good, good update. Just not a good
update. It's just been. It seems to be going
more the negative route as to whether he'll be
able to ever play again. at this point. So my
question to you is, does this sound like, I know
we're reading tea leaves and we're reading between
lines, we're making hypotheses here. Is it like
a degenerative issue with his knee that it's
bone on bone or it does tendons that won't heal?
Yes. Okay. It sounds like it's just been beat
up so much to this point. And there may be just,
you know, he may have some weakness in there
and that joint that's just never coming back.
to the point where he can perform on it. But
it does sound like the, I believe it's the knee,
if I'm not mistaken. It's the knee. With Kirby.
And it's the, I can't remember if it's the left
knee or the right knee, but it is quite beat
up. And they said he's torn just about everything
in there, and it's not healing, it's not coming
back to a healed state, so. Kirby's probably
gonna struggle with his walking even in the future.
Who knows? It doesn't sound like it can take
much of a pounding. You know, I don't have half
my meniscus and it's not comfortable. The bone
-on -bone can get a little, can get quite frustrating
and flare up. Now, I'm a fat man who tears his
ligaments getting up off the couch. I'm not tearing
my ligaments running, you know, 4 -4 -40 and
chasing down wide receivers. So I don't need
my knee that much just to get me from A to B,
you know? He needs to run all over, cut. stick
his foot in the ground. I just don't think his
knee is up to handling that. We'll see what happens.
You know, we won't give up on him. I certainly
don't want to because he's a great player and
I'm very sad if it ends his career. Well, likewise,
and just on behalf of the listeners and on behalf
of your co -host, we thank you for playing Hurt,
by the way. Yes. Yeah, play Hurt, guys. You don't
have an excuse. You're not Kirby Joseph. You
chat. You're talking about me. It's hard to get
into the stool and bend my knee for the 20 to
30 minutes it takes, Bill. It's very difficult.
But I do some exercises to make sure I can sit
properly for extended periods of time. Yeah,
it's a rough life. Rod Wood. Let's talk about
Rod Wood. What is Rod Wood bring to the table?
Well, he retires and it's kind of an interesting
case. He was the Ford family's accountant and
he was promoted into this role. When he took
the job, his introductory press conference, which
I rewatched just to share with you and the listeners,
he said he was not a football guy. He knew nothing
about football and wouldn't intervene whatsoever.
And oddly enough, his first football move was
chasing down Megatron in the hallways of Allen
Park after Megatron decided to retire and say
that he owed part of his signing bonus back,
which then... As accountants do. I mean, he's
a bean counter, right? He caused a divorce in
a rift between Megatron, Kelvin Johnson, and
the franchise, which has since been mended, and
they paid him what was owed, but it was an ugly
situation that didn't need to be there, and he...
clearly was talking out of both sides of his
mouth. The other memory I have is Rod Wood, multiple
recent drafts, fist bumping and high -fiving
MCDC and Brad Holmes in the draft room, which
is completely the opposite of a, as you said,
a CFO account encounter. And so he grew into
the role. I will have to give Sheila Fordham
credit on this that like she did promote a guy
that was really great. He in terms of assisting
the Lions in making that the successful franchise
they are today and has turned Alan Park into,
you know, if you read these NFL player. representative
and union reports it's one of the best facilities
both practice indoor outdoor food weight room
nutrition medical staff in the NFL and a lot
of that was Rod Wood's design and doing with
Sheila's approval next man up is the capologist
and the guy that's basically been running the
salary cap, which is Mike Disney. So I had a
funny joke about this. OK, I just want to tell
you, when we got into Disney, I was going to
be like, you know, we went from an accountant.
I was like, what is Disney an economist? He is
here in a degree in economics from Williams College,
where he played baseball. I love it. I love it.
I did not know that he did interview for the
Falcons. Atlanta Falcons president and GM job
that went to Matt Ryan and then the Falcons hired
or Matt Ryan hired the Bears assistant GM, which
is kind of an odd one because Mike Disney is
infinitely more qualified than either of those
individuals. But that's probably why the Falcons
are the Falcons. And I hope that Mike Disney
gets his fair crack at this. In an interesting
note, the Lions did hire a search firm for their
next president, which interesting, a little bizarre
to me, given that the guy that potentially should
be the successor, could be there in the building
or could be in NFL circles. A name to also watch
for would be Chris Spielman's brother Rick, former
general manager of the Minnesota Vikings, who
has been consulting and sitting on the sidelines.
So just... Well, Disney has apparently got a
very good reputation around the league. Really
good reputation. It's kind of like a salary cap
guy. And I know that, you know, the Falcons...
Requested an interview for president football
operations not but a couple months back. So he's
he's wanted by others Well, and this won't be
the first time the Falcons make a really curious
choice on things Remember that Bill Belichick
was their first choice and they right they were
courting him hot and heavy and decided at the
end of the day No, Raheem Morris could is our
guy. So we'll see if I don't know Arthur blank
He is not. That's the Falcons owner to listeners
that might not be familiar. He of Home Depot,
fame and CEO, principal shareholder. He hasn't
been the same since that Super Bowl collapse
against the Patriots. So we've covered the front
office, Bill. We've covered the front office.
Let's get into the players a little bit. What
do you think? Well, Big news yesterday. Taylor
Decker just said that he is willing to give it
another go. My question to you, Chet, is where
does this sit with you? Are you excited? Are
you happy? Are you frustrated? I already read
something about this the other day that Decker
is willing to give it a go. I read something
yesterday about this. Yes, Decker is willing
to give it a go. However, even Brad Holmes was
saying, like, we know his current condition.
We know he's getting up there, you know, his
health is. Not a friend to him at this juncture.
So they know they have to have another option
there. And it sounds like they are going to concentrate
on finding another option there to at least spelldecker
when necessary. It could be a draft pick. I mean,
I don't know how excited Lions fans are going
to be if they take a left tackle in the draft.
We have other needs. Everybody wants to see some
flashy edge rusher, although there are a couple
on the market. that we could go after there.
But it does sound like they know that yes, he's
coming back. This is great. This is not a permanent
option. We're not putting all our eggs in that
basket. That's all you can really ask for. But
I do look at all the needs on this team. Anybody
coming back helps because it trims down what
we have to go after. Brad Holmes needs to step
up and figure this thing out. This is going to
be where we're going to find out. Rubber hitting
the road for Brad Holmes. Can he make the magic?
He's drafted fairly well. Free agent signings
hit and miss. I need to see Brad Holmes put the
players on the field that need to be out there
for us to be a championship team next year. We
can't blow Amun Ra, Jameer Gibbs, Jared Goff,
everybody else. We can't blow Hutch. We can't
blow these guys and their time with the team
and not get at least a Super Bowl appearance
out of it. And so he needs to figure out how
to put a complete team out on the field, which
means filling a lot of holes. It looks like he's
Still going after a left tackle. What are your
thoughts? I agree with you wholeheartedly. It
gives depth. It's basically the same thing as
the Levi answer. It's like a depth piece, right,
at this point? Like, Decker has become a depth
piece at left tackle, but I can't see him the
overall answer at this point. The thing is, though...
Just because of health. But he played... a lot
last year, every game. He didn't practice at
all. And if his shoulder heals, he wasn't one
of the problems on the offensive line last year.
You know, given that Sewell and everybody else
struggled or was injured at times, including
Decker, I think he's a good depth piece coming
back. I think in a game or two he was out. It
was evident. Like it was toward the end of the
season. It wasn't working out, but you're like,
like I said, do we have other problems along
that line when he's in there that are, you know,
he's not one of the major problems. So let's
talk about solutions. Okay. David Montgomery
apparently had a very tense or terse conversation
with management in his exit interview. Yeah.
Apparently, he felt a little bit more revitalized
with the hiring of one Drew Petsing and utilization.
But apparently, he and Brad Holmes and his agent
have been in conversations this week. Yes. And
if they're in conversations, that leads me to
believe that a trade is about to happen. He signed
a two -year extension, okay? And next year would
have been the first year of that extension. Yet,
it sounds like he's disgruntled. It sounds like
he doesn't feel like he's going to get enough
opportunities. Petsing says it's going to be
the balance between him and Gibbs. What do you
think? I mean, is it, is, is this just posturing
to make sure he gets his time on the field or
do you actually think we got a trade coming?
I'd like to see him use them to trade up. I think
there's going to be a trade coming and I think
that you and listeners probably need to brace
themselves. I mean, I think if he gets you a
fifth round pick, I think that's probably fair
or equitable. Yeah, I'm worried he's not better
than a fourth at this point. Yes, unfortunately.
Yeah. And so then that changes again the landscape.
You know, let's just go through the lines currently
have seven picks. Let's say this goes to eight.
You know, if they get an additional pick on that.
Sure. I imagine a running back would be a late
pick. I think a tight end will be a late pick.
I think there'll be a safety as a late pick.
I think there'll be a cornerback as a late pick.
And so your early picks are probably going to
be left tackle, edge, and best available wherever
that might be. Pray it's not wide receiver. I
still think they're going to get a free agent
edge. I think they're going to get one of these
edge guys. There's a couple of them available.
I hope they do. I don't know that that's going
to be a draft. I think the draft will center
around line. So we did have a question from a
loyal listener. Okay. The new league date starts
March 11th. So listeners know that Chet and I
will be back with you talking about salary cap
and reposition that. Meaning they're going to
have to restructure deals because currently they're
over the cap. Okay. And there's a lot that could
go to assist that restructuring Jared Goff, restructuring
Ammon Roth St. Brown, restructuring Hutch, you
know, is Somebody like Derek Barnes a cap casualty
is Monty a trade bait is Chamo which leads me
to loyal listener Andy Roberts has a question
Okay, Brad Holmes loves his guys says Andy Okay,
what are you to meaning you and I think are the
odds that he resigns? Everybody meaning he extends
Gibbs. He extends Jack Campbell. He extends Branch
on down the line and what are your thoughts and
opinions on that if that does happen? Well, the
timing of it is difficult staying under the cap
as we just said a minute ago about the cap Like
you've got all these guys came into the team
within a year or two of each other and they're
all gonna be getting Big contracts. They don't
know that he can keep everybody There's gonna
be a couple guys that aren't gonna make it things
like health with Brian Branch would be something
to keep an eye on To see what what you know a
driver for his contract Don't think he'll keep
them all but I do feel like he's right and thinking
like these are their guys These are guys that
they evaluated they trusted they do seem to have
this desire to keep their guys around I just
don't think they'll be able to keep them all
no and they won't and I guess if we had to go
hierarchy on that one through four they all came
from the same draft and Essentially, this is
the bounty from so you're looking at branch Laporta.
Laporta. Campbell. Campbell. And who's the fourth?
Gibbs. Gibbs. Well, see, now you're wading into
how much and for how long. I mean, Gibbs would
be my number one. He's number one in the hierarchy.
OK. Right. So. Our loyal listener and I both
agreed on this. He would be my four as he sees
your four. So he's your last. Well, you want
for a running back in the NFL, they have a short
shelf life. You want their first two to 2000
carries or thousand carries or touches, whatever
you want to say. Sure. You don't want to pay
for what happened those first thousand carries.
So if they extended him. it would be like a franchise
tag for a year if he was in good health and still
performing well. Laporta's coming off back surgery.
Branch is coming off a complete and total. Both
he and Laporta have health issues and a back
for a tight end isn't the greatest thing on the
face. Tornachiles. So at this point, the quarterback
of the defense is Campbell, even though I think
that outside of running back is probably the
easiest position to replace. He's the one that
I think is the most heart and soul, and I also
think he'd be the least cost prohibitive to re
-sign or extend. If Campbell can have a season,
this coming season, like he just had, come out
and have anything close to this past season,
in the coming season, I think they're going to
extend him. He's probably the easiest to make
a decision on, because he'll be the cheapest,
and he's at a position where we don't have great
linebackers. Like, we kind of need Jack Campbell
right now. Yes. Your other options are like Derek
Barnes and I don't know who who else are you
putting out there? I mean, Rodriguez Rodriguez.
I mean, no, no, no, he's an unrestricted free
agent. He's gone. Yeah. So there's only they're
they're balking at him. They're not they're not
jumping to resign him. I mean, I think Campbell's
probably your best shot. I would say Gibbs is
like the, from a talent aspect, would be the
tier one. I thought you were kind of asking about
that. I thought, and I didn't think you were
asking about who would you resign. So I think
Campbell's probably one, but I would put Gibbs
at like two. I'd give him like a two year deal
or something if he'd take it, but he may get
something bigger from somebody else. If that's
the case, I don't know. I don't like these long
-term deals. But then again, in football, nothing's
guaranteed past a certain amount. And then La
Porta. Love La Porta, but back injuries for a
tight end. You're a blocker receiver. I just
don't know how he's going to come back from that.
Yeah. I mean, I would go tier one. Uh, I think
we're in agreement on Campbell and then tier
two would be if branch and or Laporta can come
back from injury to anything resembling their
former selves, then those are bad injuries though.
Yeah. AC are, uh, uh, Achilles and back. And
then the Lions are unlike, you know, our friends
down in Dallas, the Cowboys that love to franchise
players. Lions rarely do it, and I think it would
be a good move potentially if Gibbs is still
efficient. You franchise him once. I wonder if
that's like a locker room harmony thing. They
don't want the grumpy franchise guy hanging around.
You think? Well, you think about the franchises
that do it though, and there's never harmony.
I mean, look what the commanders did with Kirk
Cousins. I mean... They greatly overpaid him
by just not signing him when they should have,
partially because of stubbornness of ownership
and management for the fact that they couldn't
believe that they got the RG3 pick wrong and
that Cousins was the guy. And then the Cowboys
do it seemingly more often than almost any other
team. And yet, name another team in the NFL that
has more players going to the press than the
Cowboys, demanding new contracts. I mean, Brandon
Aubrey today was... I didn't see that. He wants
he wants more involvement. Yeah. So anyway, be
thankful that's not us. Other guy that was a
distant conversation is JMo someone that we would
have trade bait with or someone that you'd be
willing to part with. In my short answer, what
can you get for him? Do you think he's got a
huge contract right now? Well, they extended
him. So he's actually underpaid for his value.
Really? I thought he got a pretty big deal. He
did, but he's not he's not Jamar Chase, Justin
Jefferson. You know, he's not like a crazy. He's
also nowhere near them. And I know, but but they're
not paying him like a top 10 receiver. And you
want to talk about a guy that vanished this past
season. He was nowhere to be found for half the
season. I don't feel like he was that great.
We'll second half of that season. Let's dive
into his numbers next episode. OK, we'll give
you time to prep on that. I disagree because
the games. Aman Ra did not have his best season.
They're two vastly different receivers and we
still need somebody to take the top off. Yeah.
I will agree with you that under Johnny Moe's
offense, they didn't know how to utilize JMO
whatsoever. And that could have been the problem.
Maybe he just didn't have the consistency throughout
the season. get the mojo going. Oh, and speaking
of talk about a lucky or unlucky penny, Johnny
Moe is now the passing game coordinator with
your Denver Broncos. He's right back where he
came from. Anyhow, on that note, let's leave
you March 11th is a big date for the NFL season
starting, if any significant retirements, injury
news, restructuring of contracts. Listen here,
loyal. Lions Litterbox listeners will break it
down for you. Sounds good, Bill. Go Lions. Go
Lions.