Chet, it's good to see you again after a little
time away. It's good to see you. Give me back
on the show here. Who is Drew Petzing? And why
should I be excited about this? I don't think
we're in the minority when we say that nobody
really knew who Drew Petzing was prior to this
hire. I don't think any Lions fans knew who he
was. This is The Litterbox. a Detroit Lions podcast
with your hosts, Chad West and Bill Paxton. Litterbox
listeners, welcome back to Litterbox Detroit
Lions podcast. We've got a whole host of things
to discuss today for you. We're going to cover
this question you just heard. Who is Drew Petzing
and what are the Lions doing with this OC position?
And we're going to cover a little bit of the
sprinkle there that you just heard this past
week. The hiring of Mike Kafka, which I think
is a bigger deal than just a small thing. We're
going to go through the free agents, unrestricted
free agents for the Lions. We're going to talk
about how we feel about re -signing them, what
we need, who we may need to bring back. And that
list may be kind of short. And then we're going
to talk a little bit about kind of the DC equivalent,
the defensive coordinator equivalent as well
coming post Super Bowl. And maybe a who's on
our wish list for that. Stick with us. We're
going to be right back. So Bill, Drew Petsing,
not a name that rolls off the tongue in OC circles
in the NFL. I don't think you or I had ever said
his name before in conversation about how, oh,
I hope we get Drew Petsing as our OC. He's a
he's a run first guy. He's a running back guy.
So I think they're thinking he will bring David
Montgomery back to life and expand on what Gibbs
is capable of. We also got a little a little
signing there this past week of Mike Kafka as
a high ranking offensive staff role. And I put
air quotes around that. I think he's there to
make sure the passing game and the creativity
in the offense sticks around. What are your thoughts?
On let's go to the offensive coordinator. I'm
extremely happy that a they didn't promote from
within or go the Johnny Morton route. So I'm
just happy it's somebody new from a different
system, a different tree chat that is going to
bring new ideas to the Detroit Lions. I am going
to say this very concerned for Dan Campbell's
future. If this hire doesn't go right. And that
leads me to Mike Kafka, who torched the Lions
with Jameis Winston that day at Ford field. That
was the beginning of the end of the season, or
maybe I guess it was the Vikings game before
that, but still he torched that defense. So the
good news is Kafka can teach Kelvin Shepherd
everything that went wrong. Yep. Going back to
MCDC though, this is going to be his fourth go
around at this. And I don't think you get four
cracks at this as the CEO type in the NFL. And
so the pressure I think is firmly on Brad Holmes
now to get the draft and free agency right. But
should the offense be stagnant at all this year,
Chet, he can't he be an MCDC afford to make a
quick hook or a fire like he's done with Anthony
Lynn and Johnny Morton in the past. I don't disagree.
But I don't think this means his job. I think
there's a there's an element to this where a
healthy team, you can judge your coaches when
they have their full cadre of healthy players
out there on the field. They're starting, you
know, they're starting offense, starting defense,
special teams, etc. We have not had this was
one of the we've gone through two injury laden
seasons back to back. OK, I am not judging people.
Based on what we saw this past season especially
the last half of the season where we were rolling
out third and fourth string tight ends We were
rolling out third and fourth string offensive
lineman centers I mean you got D backs that are
coming in off the street I there was we just
kept going down and down and down and the quality
of player on the field and Yeah, they had some
magic moments. Don't get me wrong. They make
great bench guys. Okay, they're not starters
I wanna see and judge Dan with a healthy group
of players on the field. That's where I'm at.
I start looking at this stuff and I don't know
how much coaches really matter at this point.
I think it's like a tripod. You have to have
the players first and foremost. You gotta have
the talent. Secondarily, you have to have the
health. And then third on the list, then you're
talking about the strategy, the play calls, OC
and the DC and everything working in harmony
as far as that goes. I don't think the coaches
and the strategy are at number one. I think you
have to have the first two to get to the third
and make it even worth it. So that's my take.
I've, you know, kind of been going around looking
at where teams were ranked at the start of the
season, where they finished. I mean, we're not
experts, Bill. Amin Rah will tell you to shut
up. that you're not an expert. I don't know if
you caught that on his podcast, but he's kind
of like, what do you people know? We got Drew
Petzig. We're going to do everything we can to
win. You're smarter than Brad Holmes and Dan
Campbell. I don't blame him. I don't blame him.
I don't think you and I know squat personally.
So, you know, we're fans and we just got to wait
and see. We just got to wait and see. So hopefully
you're going to send out the diagram of your
tripod to our listeners. I will send a tripod
diagram out on social media. There's a lot to
unpack there, pal. Let's do this. First and foremost,
Aman walked that back so quickly because his
brother's face, if you looked at the live stream
or YouTube of the pod, was aghast when he said
that. He was basically... He can't talk trash
about the fans. Don't talk trash about the fans,
man. Next up, what's better than having one outside
voice in the offensive meeting rooms? Two offensive
voices. And what I like about Kafka, former quarterback,
uh, former offensive coordinator for the New
York Giants, uh, and you know what? He was an
interim head coach and he gave the Lions fits
as we talked about. So coupled that with Drew,
uh, we've got two freshly shorn bald headed offensive.
Co -ordinators there is slash something going
on on this team with heads of hair and I lack
thereof I Think it's to offset Kelvin Shepard's
glowing law. You think that's yes. I do He doesn't
fit in he needs to shave his head. No, no, we
balance the hair balance the hair chat It's like
run pass. All right with that this all remains
to be seen, but I think two voices the other
plus chat I'll say for the season upcoming is
that it frees Dan Campbell to be the CEO. I think
some of the fourth down calls, he really wasn't
looking at the clock. He wasn't managing down
in distance. His fingers weren't, I'm doing the
doctor when they take your pulse on your wrist,
two fingers. He was too occupied doing Johnny
Moe's job to do the job that he really needs
to do, which is be the CEO. With that, again.
Well, it's chemistry, right? Like he's in charge
of being the, he's the chemist, he's the chemistry.
He keeps things all flowing and moving in the
right direction. When he's got to do two jobs,
it's harder to do that. Look at the bottom of
Chet's diagram when it's sent out. Everybody,
he'll explain this algorithm as well. So, yes.
All right. Let's go through unrestricted free
agents as promised. We're going to do this this
way, Chet. It's keep, drop, debate. Okay. I'm
going to tell you right now, I don't have a lot
of guys that I have to keep on this list. Guess
what, Chet, we're in agreement then. And it's
all going to come down to cost to keeping the
ones that I want to keep. So quarterback Kyle
Allen, I could care less. We'll get another one
of that. We can get another one of him. All right.
This one's more important. Alex Zaloni. For the
right price. Yes. I'd put him on a one year deal.
I don't know how much he's got left. I certainly
don't think I'd want to extend him to two. I
think he'll get two from somebody. He will. That
needs a linebacker. He'll get a two year deal
with a nice little price tag on it. I don't know.
I mean, you know, it depends on which Anzaloni
we're getting. Is it last year Anzaloni before
the injury or this year Anzaloni? You know what
I'm getting. I think he retires in New Orleans.
Yeah. That's my prediction. Okay. Offensive lineman,
Coyote Awasika. You know, I don't think he's,
I think we need to see a little more of him.
I wouldn't mind having him as a backup guy, right?
As depth. But I don't really want to see him
play center again. When he played center this
past season, that one game, it was an ugly affair.
So if you want to sign him as backup, as depth,
that's fine. I hope they would not sign him thinking
he's going to start anywhere. Well, hold on.
Let me rephrase this. More interesting question.
The next guy is basically the same player. Yeah,
Tristan Colon. Yeah. So you can only pick one.
What do you do? I think, and this is just a pedigree
thing because he's supposed to be a little better
as Cologne. But again, his injuries kept us from
seeing much of him this past season. Take one
for depth. If you get two for depth, great. But
they got to come cheap. Otherwise, I don't care,
to be honest. They're depth pieces. The only
thing is, I was sick as played in 49 games. Yeah.
For Detroit total Cologne. made starts in Baltimore
and Arizona beforehand. Articles I've read, articles
you've read, say that Cologne has some familiarity
with Coach Bald Drew. And maybe there's that
edges. Maybe there's something there. It's a
coin flip for me. I don't really care. Yeah,
that's what I'm saying. I wouldn't mind. Pick
one of them up, but let the other go. Yeah, whoever's
cheaper. All right. Zach Cunningham can go. I
could care less. Yeah. I don't know. Although
you got to start looking at linebacker if Anzaloni
is walking. But there's other guys on this list
that I might be more This is a position I want
to talk about as we continue through the offseason.
Anthony Fursker or Ferk Sir, tight end. I would
say skip because I think this is one position
group on the offense. The one outside of center
guard tackle that also needs upgrading beyond
Sam Laporta. I would say move on. You? I'm fine
moving on. We do have to keep an eye on how many
tight ends we've got. I don't know if Sam projected
to come back at the start of next season. He
is. Okay. So I think you can get rid of the Ferxer
because I think there are going to be many Ferxers
out there for us to grab like there were this
year. And Brock Wright's under contract, so that's
good. All right. Jermarco Jones didn't play Who
Cares. Let him know. No clue. He was always hurt.
This one's interesting. Roy Lopez, defensive
lineman. I hate this. This is a no for me and
I'll tell you why. This is the classic. He went
off to get his contract. You're gonna sign him
and he's not gonna be as good as even reader.
So just just it's a no. That's a no for me I
like what he did for us in the one year. We caught
lightning in a bottle now We gotta let the lightning
go Well, is it also indicative of how poor the
defensive line play was that he was could have
been it could have been So two things might be
true. Yeah once at the same time. This is one,
you know where I'm gonna go Avante Maddox, I
think you sign him Sign him. I like okay. Well,
we agree that yeah, we're in agreement on this
and we did not talk about this before before
this No, no. No, I I think of everybody we've
gone over He's the only one I rance D back getting
old but it's personal back versatile plays multiple
positions We're probably gonna have injuries
there next year of some sort because we just
can't have a defensive backfield to stay healthy
Knock on wood all you want. All right, next up
Arthur mullet Yeah, I'm a no on Arthur. I'm pretty
much done there. Jalen Mills, safety, no. Didn't
get to see much of him, to be honest. I don't
remember much of what he did, but I'm a no there,
too. I feel like guys like Mollet and Mills will
be available somewhere. Yeah, yeah. And they
were the villains when we got Desperate 2. I
mean, Desperate, yeah. All right, this one's
an interesting one. The next two are interesting.
Edge, Bob Muhammad. Bob Muhammad, he kind of
falls into that Anzaloni. If he wants a one year
and he's cheap, we'll do it, but he won't be.
He had a great season. He's going to command
like a two or three year deal somewhere probably
and get some money. He kind of falls. He may
even fall more into that Lopez category where
he had an incredible season contract year and
now he's going to go cash in and who knows what
happens after that. He fits my. Bad description,
which is contract year, wrong side of 30, career
year, forget about it. The next guy I'm decisively
no on, Levi Owens -Rike. Are you just sick of
him being injured? Levi, you're no on Levi then?
I'm a no on Levi. Yeah. I just don't, you know,
when he's healthy, he was good. But it was so
rare. It was kind of like Mark is Davenport in
a lot of ways. Like just the two of them just
seem to be injured more than they were ever healthy.
Yeah, I would say let him go to the Raiders or
Cardinals and if he turns out to be a pro bowler
there then Yeah, we were wrong. All right. This
one's interesting Khalifa Raymond. He's getting
up there However, I think he does so many little
things that we don't see that at the right price
and if he's willing to take a home team discount
I sign him at all costs. That's this is what
I was saying some of these guys as long as the
price is right I have no problem bringing them
back. He's one of them Okay, he basically will
be a four receiver next year number four receiver
if they bump Tisla up to third Finally, but he
plays that number three role and he does kick
returns which he does adequately But yeah, it
comes down to cost for me. What's he gonna cost
us? I just don't know at his age and how familiar
he is with the line system He's getting up there
that he would be that lucrative or enticing to
another franchise, but you never know There's,
we've talked about eight good franchises and
24 dumb ones, so someone will probably overpay
him. Which leads us to our next guy that's going
to get overpaid and has been a bum, DJ Reader.
So DJ Reader, the final sentence of this little
caption that you and I have been reading up on
these free agents. He was solid against the run,
but didn't offer a lot in terms of interior pass
rush. Yeah. 17 hurries. He didn't have a sack
all season. Four QB hits. We had very little
pass rush up the gut. I wouldn't mind a D tackle
that puts a little pressure on the quarterback
that can get that surge. I know Reeder does a
lot of his work in the run game, but I would
like somebody that puts a little pressure up
the gut on the quarterback personally. So would
I, and that's what I think Tyleke Williams was
drafted for is to be that big run stuffer. Yeah.
And when we need somebody to empower up, when
we get to draft previews and all that, we can
talk about some D tackles that can bring pressure.
All right. Next one, you, you know, cause I even
have a nickname for him. Amique the freak Robertson.
I would resign him again. He goes back to the
Avanti Maddox. He's versatile. He can play safety.
He can play nickel. He can play outside corner.
He's not a number one. He's not a number two,
but guess what? Guys get hurt. You need guys.
I would sign him. I agree. And he's one that
I would overpay for just because I don't know
that I'd pay overpay for a meek, but I will pay
market rate for a meek. I don't expect a deal,
but I would pay market. Well, hold on. I guess
what I'm saying in free agency is overpaying
would be allowing the guy to leave. in getting
somebody else's free agent that's not as good
or something along. I gotcha. Similar player
on a different team you're overpaying for. So
I'm saying if you pay him a little more to stay
in house, I would do it. Next one, Rodriguez,
Malcolm, linebacker, no. You know, I'm not a
no on him, but I don't need to make him a starter.
Let's put it that way. Again, he's a nice special
teams guy. He is a nice backup linebacker. I'm
okay there, but I'm not paying him starter money.
Dan Skipper was next up. He retired. And word
I'm hearing today out of Detroit is that he might
be in a coach. It sounds like he aspires to a
coaching role, which may be a good role for Mr.
Skipper. I don't think he's ready to leave the
sideline yet. I think he wants to be down there
with the squad. So if you can bring him in and
get him to help out down there, I'm all for it.
Perfect. And there is no limit on coaching hires
in the NFL, unlike college football. So go nuts,
lions, keep them in house. Grant Stewart linebacker
slash special teams ace. I don't need to pay
them, but as special teams, maybe. I mean, you
let our special teams attack. Well, we didn't
have that special of a special teams this season.
If you remember early in the season, we had a
little problem letting people score touchdowns
on kick returns. So I'm okay with it, but depth
piece better be cheap. Safety Daniel Thomas.
No, no, I don't he was injured. I barely remember
him. He only played two games Yeah, linebacker
Ezekiel Turner. No again. I've heard not. Yep.
All right Two guys we've got two debates coming
up. Yep, rock. Yes in yes. I'm bringing rock
back Don't bring in rock back. I want to see
what a year two of rock looks like Well, here's
the thing. It's really easy to say I'm bringing
back defensive backs because you know how badly
we just need all of them and They're hard to
find so we know what we're getting with Maddox.
We know what we're getting with a meek We know
what we're getting with rock. I'm bringing I'm
bringing rock. Yes in back I Agree for all the
reasons you said which is boring potting So I'll
get into a good pod debate with you on the next
guy, which is Shane Zylstra, tight end. I just
don't think we need him. Damn it. OK, you're
not. I'm sorry. We're not going to have a debate.
I don't think we need. I just don't look at Shane
Zylstra. He's a practice squad guy. We cannot
was at the start of the season when we are at
a full cadre of tight ends. We can not grow.
OK. Yeah. Alright, that goes for your unrestricted
free agents going to restricted Tom Kennedy It
doesn't matter what Chet and I think they will
resign him. He's don't he I don't think he's
allowed to wear another jersey I think he saw
I don't know Sheila squad starting yeah in the
shower doing something Yeah, why he's got dirt
on somebody Trevor Nowaski the pride and joy
I believe of a small college in Michigan somewhere
Saginaw State maybe He was a good special teamer.
Fine. Bring him back. Cheap. Don't do anything
crazy. Tyra Sweet, I think the future is... I'm
not. I mean, I think more sacks than DJ Reader
did, isn't it, Rush? I don't know if that matters,
but... I'd say, you know, bring him back. Yeah.
And then exclusive rights, Jake Bates. Come on,
our kicker's going nowhere. We love that guy.
You know, I think Jake Bates, 54 -56 on extra
points, 27 -34 on field goals. He's a worthy...
He's a worthy kicker. I think we bring him back.
We don't need to go shopping for a kicker with
everything else. And he's a kicker. He hits some
big field goals. He can make the field goal in
the big moment. So I say we bring him back mainly
because I don't want to do the effort of going
and looking for it. Can I sidebar? Yeah. I've
always wanted to have a kicker jersey and John
Palmer, our good friend Adam. Palmer's son actually
has a Jake Bates jersey. You're kidding me. And
I just don't... So he's the guy that bought it.
Yeah, I just don't want, you know, my buddy Adam
and his son John to have to go get a new kicker
jersey because that's unfair. Yeah. Then what
do you do with a kicker that leaves your team?
Like you can't move that jersey. You can't give
that to somebody. eBay's full of expired kicker
jerseys. Is there an Ali Haji Sheikh jersey out
there somewhere I can get? Oh, that would be
wonderful. I got two things I wanna call out
for you, Bill. Interesting facts. We're gonna
move along here. Do you know the week one NFL
.com rankings, power rankings, okay? Can you
guess who the top five teams in the NFL were
in week one? This season or next season? This
season, this season, this past season. The top
five. Who do you think they were? Some combination
of Chiefs, Bills, Ravens, Lions, Eagles. You
got them all. Some combination of. Eagles were
one, Ravens were two, Bills three, Chiefs four,
Lions five. Of those teams, three didn't make
the playoffs out of the top five teams in week
one. Do you know where our Super Bowl teams were
ranked in the power rankings in week one? I'm
going to guess the Patriots were like 18 to 25.
three, and the Seahawks are probably like 11
to 14. Seahawks were 19th. Okay. The Patriots
were 22nd. Not bad. They came in the season 19th
and 22nd and made the Super Bowl. This is just
parody in the NFL. I mean, any team can win any
given season. You can have the Jaguars go to
the Super Bowl next year. I'm just saying we
don't know what's going to happen with the Lions.
Actually, I'll make you a gentleman's wager right
now. Boy, here we go. The Jaguars, you can pick
any one of 31 other teams. The Jaguars are never
good in back to back years. So just Florida Marlins
of baseball. It's something about Florida. They
just I'm sure can't string two seasons together
Whatever you want a wager like food. Whatever
will do it. I'm telling you I don't know if they'll
be last place I'm just saying they will not win
the Super Bowl or even go to the Super Bowl I
will say it's not the Jaguars names and Saints
the Jets Browns and Saints were the bottom three
So if you end up in the bottom three, you're
gonna be awful probably but other than that it's
kind of a toss -up the Colts who were What they
did with Daniel Jones, they were on top of the
world five weeks into the season We're 28th in
the power rankings in week one. Who knew? Who
knew at any rate fun stuff that I figured I'd
look up because I was curious as to where those
guys were and what people thought they were gonna
do at the very start of the season. All right,
so I personally think Dan Campbell is kind of
Insulating himself via Teflon getting Kafka in
just in case for some reason ball, ball drew,
frustrates him. Okay. He's going to have two
options as offensive coordinator this coming
season. He doesn't have to fire anybody. He's
going to tell these guys to work together. Yeah.
Or it's going to be a, yeah. And that way he's
going to say, look, I hired two, one guy who's
considered very intelligent. The other guy is
considered a kind of a run game master. So I'm
kind of attacking it with two guys. Yeah. Taking
that angle. I don't know if they'll both be there
in the second season the next season after in
the 2027 season, but I think ceiling says that
one gets promoted you think so Probably that's
probably probably Kafka becomes a full -time
offensive coordinator. I wanted him to go after
him for oh, yeah I know you did so when I found
out that they got him as the special specialty
offensive guy was like, oh wow, okay he's the
He's like Dwight K. Schrute to Michael Scott.
He's like the assistant to the assistant regional
manager type thing. You know what I'm saying?
What did you want to talk about with the defensive
coordinator stuff? This threw me. Guys, Bill
throws me notes as to what he wants to talk about
that day. And he's got a DC thing on him. I'm
like, we have, Calvin, we're not going anywhere.
So if we're willing, the Lions willing to do
this on offense. Who would you like to be? You
know the ying to Kelvin Sheppard's Yang because
I think as a first -year defensive coordinator
Down the stretch last four or five games Kelvin
Sheppard looked a little bit overwhelmed. I'm
gonna discount the last game of the year's the
Bears game. I don't know why you want. Do you?
You're asking you want a situation like Mike
Kafka for the defensive side of the ball to chat.
They're like a specialist. Yes, because they're
great. You want to keep Calvin on staff chat.
I would hire Brian Flores tomorrow. OK, as assistant
head coach. Is he available? He's out of contract
with the Vikings. True. That's a good point.
And the question is, are the cardinals? Raiders
or Brown's gonna hire him. I believe nobody else
has a job opening now that he's got some stink
on him You know, he's got some issues. He's got
some stink on him. Yeah, cuz he's amy fallout
He sued the NFL for racial discrimination, which
yes Have we looked at that coach? I hires like
there's talk. I don't know outside of Robert
Salah They haven't hired anybody of I'd like
Robert Salah if he was available that'd be great,
but he's not okay So let's talk in reality. Yeah
Would give him whatever he wants. It's a one
-year. He's just gonna come in Flores Oh, yeah,
I would give him I would I would pay him I would
make him the highest paid assistant in the history
of the NFL Okay, knowing that he won't be around
for long And if he's as good as advertised as
he has been with the Vikings, you know, guess
what best scenario he stays so That is my I do
think Kelvin Shepard is not going to be long
for this organization. He interviewed with the
Dolphins. Do I think he's that good? No, but
because, you know, opportunities are going to
arise. Yeah. And I'm good with it. I have one
more for you. Okay. Jim Schwartz. I mean, he's
the only man that wants the Brown's job. Again,
bring him in. Special. He's Dwight K. Schrute
too. Michael Scott MCDC and he can dictate, you
know what I like Sala I like Available I'm fine
with all three of those guys. I know but I wish
we would have I wish he would have been our D
Courtney I wish I wanted him to hire him as head
coach back in the day when he was available,
but That's I like his he's got a ball dumb too.
So now he would completely fit with Wait a second
rest of the crew. There's not enough hair there
Not enough hair? Now you need hair? Now you need
somebody with hair to fill in. Hence, Florence.
So our D coordinators have to have hair is basically
your rule. Okay, very good. Chet Ying Yang. Folks,
we're gonna leave you there for this wonderful
episode. This little ketchup pod for the lion's
litter box. Thanks for listening. We'll keep
you guys posted if anything incredible happens
between now and the draft. But, yep, keep an
eye out for the sister podcast, the Litterbox
Detroit Tigers. We'll be back for a new season
with that. We'll give you some updates there
likewise. Until then, so long and go Lions in
the offseason. Go Lions.