This is the Litterbox, a Detroit Lions podcast
with your hosts, Chad West and Bill Patterson.
Detroit Lions Litterbox listeners, you got your
season finale in the Windy City yesterday. Sunday,
January 4th, we are recording on Monday, January
5th, giving our reaction and our response to
what we saw a Lions 19 to 16 victory over what
will be the number two seed Chicago Bears coming
out of the NFC. We want it with field goals and
zone defense. Bill, I know you have thoughts.
Please give them to me. So Chet first and foremost
yesterday's game was as entertaining as or entertained
as I've been in two months watching the Lions
It was just a fun game Ben Johnson on one sideline
MC DC on the other Cold weather gray skies outdoor
football grass stains and Lions ended up winning
what? That's the good news Chet. That's the glass
half -full. Do you want to hear my real thoughts?
Please give it to us Why didn't we do this in
either Minnesota game because guess who'd be
going to the playoffs right now? It's it's fascinating
to think about and it's a little frustrating
But it was also bizarre to watch because you
watch a coach that brazenly Went for on fourth
down didn't kick field goals a defensive coordinator
who played Mandy with What was obviously not
enough talent on the defensive side of the ball
all season to do Mandy? Yet here we were getting
what we asked for and squeaking out a win against
the number two seed bill It frustrates me a little
bit but in all honesty It doesn't shock me because
they were kind of going with the game plan that
got them to where they've gotten to over the
last four seasons or three seasons Yeah, and
I guess how much stock do we put in also that
they did finish with a winning record? So that's
now four of the last five seasons in the MCDC
Brad Holmes era They're winners. They've built
a winning culture, and that's, I think, enough
that we have to hang our hat on. I do think we
need to be really, really frustrated, though,
because it was a season. Let's break it down
this way, Chet. Obviously, the Vikings games
are gonna be the two biggest in our craw. The
Steelers game was extremely upsetting for the
fact that they just couldn't stop the run with
third and fourth string tackles in there. Yeah.
Beyond that, I don't know that they were ever
really that in the Rams game after... the first
three and out in the second half. And then both
Packers games, I'm still going to chalk up his
losses, especially the week one. They just looked
overmatched, overwhelmed. They didn't have answers
for Green Bay's front seven. That was when you
and I knew that the offensive line started looking
really bad. Yes. And the injuries were starting
to show in that game. I mean, you and I said
this yesterday during the game a little bit.
the center position in Glasgow. Glasgow is an
below average center. We all know this, but so
much better than what we've had the last couple
of weeks and look how much of a difference it
makes. Exactly. So here's another weird one for
you. Yesterday, they ran the ball for 4 .5 yards
a clip. We should have seen more Monte and what
arguably is probably going to be his final game.
I don't see the Lions with the salary cap upcoming.
I know it's going to increase, but they can't
afford to have Top ten I think he's number seven
in in salary for cap it, you know next year So
I see him being a cap casualty, which is unfortunate
because I really enjoyed Monty's time here And
so yep, I guess if nothing else I'd like to give
a salute to him and of Sonic and Knuckles Yeah,
well which probably ended a couple weeks ago
really but it the true end Yeah, and then another
guy who he drew our our our ire at times, but
he also made a lot of plays I don't see Alex
Zaloni probably coming back. He was in Concussion
Protocol and didn't play yesterday and he was
nothing more than a Honolulu Blue and Silver
Warrior. Unlike some other guys like Marcus Davenport
looking at you, DJ Reader looking at you. Please
don't let the door hit you on the way out. Thanks
for your time and service. I have a question
for you. Now that the dust is settled, do you
know who was the second most productive D &D
duo in the NFL this season? I'm guessing it's
got to be Bob Muhammad and and Hutch after Denial
Hunter and everything. Will Anderson at Houston,
who might make a Super Bowl run because they've
got a fearsome foursome up front and get competent
quarterback play, run the ball just enough, et
cetera. I mean, Bob and Hutch had like 20 some
sacks between the two of them at 11. Bob had
11 and Hutch had 12 or 13. Yeah. Yeah. So another
thing My vote for comeback player of the year,
and I would give a game ball to Hutch. He did
really well yesterday. My other game balls got
to go to Amun Ra, the Sun God. He was everywhere
yesterday. If I had to give a diss, it would
be this real quick. Why is Gibbs out there so
much comparatively to Monte? And then let me
circle back to my question. How much money do
you think Bob Mohamed's made in his entire NFL
career? Because I don't know. But I think in
one season, it's probably going to eclipse that.
The next yeah, you're you're you're close that
entire figure 13 million and change is the actual
number made in his career So yeah, he is 30 years
old going into age 31, you know season next season
So here's my question for you If you could get
Bob on a three -year team friendly deal not that
I expect him to do it chat You have to pull the
trigger. You can't waffle on this. Yes or no.
What do you do? No, I don't I'm going all in
for Max Crosby at this point Really? Apparently
the Raiders are making him available. Okay. And
I cannot imagine being a team going up against
Max Crosby and Hutch. I can't either. If you
gotta make Bob like your bailout if you don't
get Max and somebody goes crazy and pays the
world for Max. But I got a feeling he could end
up in Detroit. Max just got extended so he's
on a three year extension. I know. The problem
with it is a big chunk of change. They'll have
to restructure multiple deals, get a bunch of
guys to agree to restructuring, namely Mr. Goff.
You know, they're going to have to do some work
to be able to fit that in. But from what I understand,
like Decker, if he doesn't come back and granted,
these are all other problems down the down the
way. Right. With our own line is we're probably
not going to get Decker back. I don't know if
Glasgow is coming back. Sounds like Dan Skipper
tackle eligible. Maybe done he gave a tearjerker
of an interview yesterday in the locker room
He's got back issues that he's had all season
long And he's got to wait to hear what doctors
have to say about that and these guys get beat
up and they keep playing and you know They just
become kind of fractions of themselves out there
on the field. I But back to the defensive end
question. I'm going after Max Crosby. I'm sorry
I know it sounds like a pipe dream, but I'm going
all in on that I'm figuring out how to restructure
to get that guy on the squad Okay, I like where
I'm starting Bob Muhammad's a great Consolation
prize if you will if we can't get anybody else
I'm going for Bob again, and I'm not to say Bob
didn't have a good season But nothing in his
repertoire tells me he can repeat that after
like he would be such a unicorn in the NFL to
such a unicorn to a Have his best season age
30 and then B to sign him to three years would
just be This is one I think you let some other
team bite the bullet. Yeah. You go with a more...
This is Jonah Jackson part two, but on the defensive
end side of things. Great analogy. Well done,
sir. Right. My next question for you, circling
back a bit, is this is what zone looks like.
And had we just run this against the Vikings,
we'd be in the playoffs right now. And Chet,
I'll be very frank with you. The Lions would
have... won the division had they beat the Vikings
twice. And so now they'd be hosting a playoff
game opposed to having to go on the road because
the Bears or someone else would have to come
to them. I haven't done all the math on that,
but you've got some garbage teams. Like, I'm
sorry, but the Panthers are garbage. I don't
understand why. I just don't understand what.
Shep's reluctance was, I mean, he had every excuse
in the world to shift off of his game plan or
Aaron Glenn's game plan, if you will, mid season
or earlier when the injuries started popping
up. And some of these guys want to ride their
plan, want to do their thing, to show that it'll
work, to prove they can do it, prove they can
get the job done. But they do it in the face
of failure. And I just don't understand why.
So this one flipped to this earlier. I don't
know the reason, but I blame this again on Johnny
Moe for the fact that if Johnny Moe had just
been competent in his job and Dan Campbell could
have actually been the CEO that he should be.
You think Dan would have reached over to Kelvin?
Well, I think the CEO was so busy with his glasses
and his face in the play calling sheet, which
if you look at how the Lions finished this year,
they scored a boatload of points. The problem
is they just couldn't get off the field at key
times. Yeah. I'm gonna go back, you know, I don't
wanna keep harping on it. Obviously the Viking
games, you know, are 1A and 1B in my, you know,
frustration for the 2025 season. Part two would
be that Steelers game where I still don't understand
how and why the Steelers did that. Given that
you knew, we knew, you and I, like two boobs
with a microphone and headphones knew that that's
what Arthur Smith's game plan was and it's still.
came to fruition. So let's transition off of
this. We talked about our wish list. I think
number one is getting an offensive coordinator.
Sure, sure. And a couple names are available
now that I think are somewhat interesting. And
I want to see what your thought is. Does Kevin
Stefanski just released and fired from the Cleveland
Browns do anything for you? He's a two time coach
of the year. Yep. However, the knock on him is
that he's not necessarily been the quarterback
whisperer that people think he could be. However,
what he does excel at is rejuvenating quarterback's
careers. Before I go making a choice on an OC
at this point, I need to see what I get to choose
from. We have an interesting situation here,
Bill. OK. The pool of potential head coaches
out there for this season is a little thinner
than it was last year, quite a bit thinner than
it was last year. Last year was like a gold rush.
And there's already six openings. So some of
these guys that were head coaches, the Dables,
the Stefanskis, that, you know, Raheem Morris,
whoever, whoever you want to go with that no
longer have had coaching jobs might get recycled
into another team system. as a head coach, they
may not be stepping back into a coordinator position.
I think we can say that safely, except for Pete
Carroll, who is probably heading my way off into
the sunset. He's either going to Cabo to play
golf or going to Hawaii to play. Maybe time for
Pete to just take a season off, see how retirement
settles with you. You know, do you think there's
a chance we'd ever see like a Gruden back in
the NFL? I think. Yeah, there's always a chance.
There's always a chance. I feel like this is
a type of year where it could happen. I wouldn't
want to be that franchise. So I'm thankful that
that's not an option. But there's a very, we're
in a real thin head coaching pool right now.
But when we talked about, you know, you brought
up three names there and they're all available
today. Yeah. If we couldn't, I guess Stefanski
would be my first choice. I think he's number
one. He's got to be number one. And then Deball
would be number two. And then, no offense, I
want nothing to do with Raheem Morris. Another
name for you that was let go that I actually
think he's an excellent coordinator. I just don't
think anybody can really go there and win. And
that is the Arizona Cardinals. You're looking
at, yeah. I know you're looking at that. That's
the defensive side of the ball. And right now,
offense and OC is so much more important. But
if Jonathan Gannon doesn't get picked up, you
think he's an interesting selection? I'm not,
I'm not, I'm not opposed. Let's put it that way.
I'm going to just say one final thing on this,
because obviously we do need to let the chips
fall. I want voices that have not been in Alan
Park or inside the building the last five years.
I want some new ideas. I want freshness. I want
Dan and Kelvin and whomever, Brad, to be challenged.
And I think, you know, when Jonathan Gannon was
hired, he was one of the young inspiring defensive
coordinator mind. Same with Kevin Stefanski.
They just happen to go to really bad, bad situations.
Wait, defensive coordinator? You said defensive
coordinator. No, no. Offensive coordinator. Defense
for Jonathan Gannon. Oh, okay. Alright. Offensive
for Stefanski. Yeah, so good clarification. I
think you'd be getting two young, bright minds
that would meld well, and then their next head
coaching gigs, because I fully expect both of
them possibly to get that opportunity, Why not
just stick with Dan for, you know, two, three
seasons, and then go to a good franchise? You
know, wait for the Eagles to come available,
or, you know, the Bills to come available. Well,
that's what I think some of these guys should
do. The Ravens. I think that's what some of them
should do. I mean, one of these guys might want
to sit it out for a year, do some coordinator
work for a year or two, and wait for a good gig
to pop open somehow. Because you and I both know
the Cardinals and Browns. Yeah, that's bad. If
you're Stefanski going to the Cardinals or going
to, you know, Tennessee, is that a good option
or going to Tennessee, Atlanta right now with
that whole situation? I wouldn't want to be going
into those spots. Can I give you some interesting
takes? Are you done? Do you want to talk about
the coordinator stuff anymore? No, I'm good.
You fire away your questions. So much questions,
but there's a couple of interesting statistics
that came out of this season, Bill. OK, great.
And I thought I'd fire a few of these things
at you. Please. So one thing right off the top,
and we talked about this, they had a winning
season. That's four straight, OK, consecutive
winning seasons. I don't think that's ever happened
in our lifetime. First time in more than 50 years.
That has happened for the Lions. Now, secondarily,
here's an odd one. The Lions finished last in
the division. The division had no losing teams,
by the way. Every team had a winning record,
which is out of my mind bizarre. When you look
at the NFC South and stuff like that, and you're
like, how is that even possible? They would have
won the North or the South. Listen to this. They
finished first in point differential. but finished
last in the division. That's stupid. OK, that's
dumb. And there was a tweet out there from Pride
of Detroit. Thanks, Brian Flores. Yeah. Last
in the division, first and point differential.
What a wacky, stupid season. That's what his
tweet was. I died laughing. The Bears. Bears.
Kevin Fishbane tweets this. The Bears are the
first division champ with a sub 500 record in
their division since the 2010 Chiefs. That is
unbelievable. And that 2010 Chiefs, AFC West
was I think somewhat maligned. It usually is
anyways. Bears went two and four in division
this year and won it with 11 wins and got the
number two seed in the NFC. Give me a break.
And here's the thing. We get two teams into the
playoffs. One of them's going home after week
one. We don't even have good representation in
the playoffs at this point because of that. That's
crazy. Unlike last season, when representation
was strong, three teams and still nobody went
beyond the opening weekend or their first weekend.
I mean, the Lions obviously had the bye, but
yeah, that's true. But yeah, we had the three
at the same time. The North just may be this
way for a while. Yeah, Vikings are one and done.
So are the Packers. Yeah. All right. Interesting
tidbits. Yeah, those are good. Hey, loyal litter
box listeners, we really appreciate you sticking
with us for the season. We will be back in as
more firings and job openings happen. So expect
some off -season tidbits. We'll probably do a
mock draft or two as well. Maybe talk a little
bit about, you know, who might be up and coming
for fantasy for next season. And we'll keep you
up to date on all that. So thank you and please
give our Detroit Tigers litter box a listen as
well as the hot stove starts to heat up in Chet.
It was a fun season. Litterbox listeners, thank
you very much. Have a great off season. Go Lions!