This is The Litterbox, a Detroit Lions podcast
with your hosts, Chad West and Bill Patterson.
Detroit Lions Litterbox listeners. Well, another
game played, another game lost. The Lions are
now your last place. Detroit Lions in the NFC,
Norris or North and Chet yesterday, six turnovers
for the Lions five by Jared Goff. I definitely
put a bow on the season and say it's over. My
question to you is I am ready to move off of
Jared Goff and start the rebuild. And here's
why I take my nephews to a Broncos game this
time every year. Three years ago, we were at
Ford Field when yard Detroit lines and dismantled
the Broncos and essentially ended Russell Wilson's
career. Last year I took them and they, we saw
the Joe burrow led bangles in Cincinnati, best
the Broncos in overtime. Okay. And you know where
I'm going. Last night I was in arrowhead and
we saw a Broncos team that was resilient, not
playing their best football, beat the chiefs
in Travis Kelsey's last home game. They did all
this moving off of a cap hit of $85 million for
Russell Wilson at the end of 2023. Going back
to my question, I am ready to move off of Jared
Goff. What say you? I think the Russell Wilson,
Jared Goff comparison is a little rough. Russell
was not in his prime at all when he took the
position with the Broncos, and it showed only
so much more when he couldn't sustain anything
with the Giants. Am I'm not ready to move on
from Jared Goff yet. I think quarterbacks, you
know, you don't know what you got till it's gone
Quarterbacks are hard to freaking come by in
the NFL good quarterbacks. You can ask Viking
fans that question right now I mean, oh you mean
the Vikings that are gonna finish ahead in the
division. Yeah quarterback Yeah, you can ask
but what they've we don't have are so many other
things now You want to get a new quarterback
in there? I mean, again, we have so many holes
in the boat right now to fill that I would rather
restructure golf's contract, which they will
this coming season. He's a 70 million dollar
cap hit coming up in 2026. They're going to restructure
that deal. OK, that's going to happen along with
maybe a couple other deals to go out and get
some players to help them win. I get where you're
going. I want a little more in the Mobility department
I think in modern football with all these fast
edge rushers He's done and rushers. You need
a guy who can run out of the pocket and throw
Our old line was so bad yesterday. They almost
turned golf into a running quarterback But that
that looked ugly a couple times, but it's I'm
not ready to let him go yet We have other things
we need we have other Pieces bigger pieces you
put a running quarterback back there Don't know
who you're gonna go get but you put one back
there and they're gonna get destroyed too with
with what we have on that offensive line right
now this season Disintegrated so quickly Because
of the fact that we are running I mean I'm looking
at the guys that got snaps yesterday and this
isn't a meaningful game and it wasn't very it
wasn't much different for the Steelers game and
I can't believe some of the names that I would
rattle off that got significant playing time
I mean, it's, it's amazing. It's like a third,
three or four deep out there on our offense in
some spots and in our defense too, but now in
our offense. And I think what's taught me is,
you know, I miss there's certain things that
I missed or I just took for granted in years
past that I don't think I'll take for granted
going forward. So my point would be this and
not ready. To restructure Jared Goff means you're
stuck with him for another four years. And I
don't want Jared Goff for four more years. I've
seen enough. You cannot win a Super Bowl with
Jared Goff. Well, it depends on how they do the
deal, right? But I'd like them to be creative.
But I'm telling you right now, you're going to
a new quarterback next season. There's nobody
coming out in the draft. And don't even try to
sell me on any of them because none of them are
good enough. Next year is going to be a terrible
year for quarterbacks in the draft. So where
are you going to go out and get a quarterback
that's going to be better? and get us to the
promised land next year, because we need to keep
the window open, go next year. Otherwise, you
are closing that window if you go to a new QB.
Well, I'm not uncertain that the window is not
already closed. I don't buy that. Too much talent
left on this roster. I don't buy that. I'm not
going down that path. Yeah. I mean, I'm just
thinking you're going to have to tear it down
to the studs at some point. And why not move
Jamo and Gibbs while you can? You know, you've
got, I mean, let's talk about free agents that
we will not have in all likelihood. No Amique
the Freak, no Anne Zaloni, no DJ Reader, no Ray
Lopez, no Khalifa Raymond. And then Glasgow and
Decker are both question marks. I don't think
Glasgow has anything left in the tank. And I
don't know if Decker is going to be healthy enough
to play again. It'll be a very interesting offensive
line next season. It's either gonna be Glasgow,
Decker come back, Ragnar comes back, Glasgow
moves back to guard. It's, you know, one of those
types of deals where everybody's coming back
or nobody's coming back. I don't see Ragnar coming
back if Decker and Glasgow are gone. I just don't
know if that's gonna happen. So, I agree with
you, man. We got a problem on the anti -offensive
line and it isn't gonna solve itself tomorrow.
I don't want, Frank. Rag now back either that's
not gonna get us to the Super Bowl I Fine that
what do you want to do? There's too many holes
to fill right now and you want to go ditch the
quarterback So now you want to lose for another
two or three seasons? Now you're just gonna burn
Brad Holmes and and no because another couple
see no because if they follow the Broncos blueprint
They too could be winning their division What
was the Broncos blueprint? They went out and
got what the Broncos always do, which is have
a great defense and don't worry about the offense.
The Lions have a number one offense and that
doesn't get you anywhere. I don't know. They
play in the AFC West, too, and until Kansas City
decided to completely fold up shop and Kansas
City. Now, there's a team. If you want to talk
about retooling, there's a team that's going
to need to retool. I mean, obviously they're
going to keep my homes around, but they're going
to lose Kelsey. They're going to have to do something
to add another receiver probably. They're going
to have to do something to get a running game
going because their running game was terrible.
Their offensive line fell apart too. They were
the same as us. They went from being AFC one
seed to nothing this year, just like we went
from the NFC one seed to nothing. But we saw
this. We saw hints of this at the end of last
season. The injuries take too much of a toll.
We played. I'm not willing to say scrap it and
start over because of this season. We played
this season with three and four deep guys for
most of the season. And that's when we really
started losing. You can't succeed with that.
You have to have starters in there. You have
to have your starters in. There's no way you
can judge this team right now based on that.
Now, Brad Holmes has got to learn getting there
is one thing. Staying up there is a whole other
thing. He does have to start building depth.
And you've made comments throughout the season
about us not being deep enough. We definitely
have nothing past our one like our starters are
too deep is super weak and it shouldn't be that
weak We should have guys that can at least slot
in there and look like they can perform So I
agree with you there. He needs to work on depth,
but we have questions answer on that offensive
line It's hard to build an offensive line, but
I'm not getting rid of quarterbacks yet. I'm
not going down that road yet If something came
up and something was great, I'm not turning it
down, but I we don't need to replace the QB yet
You listed off all those free agents. I'm pretty
sure most of those guys will be gone Maybe save
like one. Maybe somebody will come back. What
do you think of guys? Like I know we have DJ
Reid for another season Do you feel like he's
the answer is our number one corner? Or do you
feel like Terry and Arnold is a number one corner?
What do you think about on the defensive side
of the ball? You're asking me to pour kerosene
on fire. I mean, Brad Holmes has missed on that
side of the ball as well. Actually, he's missed
more on that side than he has on the offensive
side. You're right. So the third round pick plus
picks that were added to get the pick. on Broderick
Martin looks terrible now. The pick on Levi Owens
-Ricke looks worse now, okay? He was hurt in
college. He was hurt. They're not gonna be able
to make these reaches anymore. They're gonna
have to start going with the best player available
mindset for a lot of these draft picks going
forward. Yes, which is awesome. You know, Marcus
Davenport never panned out as a lion. So, you
know, and then... He re -signed Derek Barnes,
or extended Derek Barnes, and that was just a
guy. And then, okay, DJ Reid, I agree, probably
isn't the number one, but then the guy you drafted
to be the number one, Terryon Arnold can't stay
on the field. The nickel you drafted, Enis Rake
-Straw was hurt in college, can't stay on the
field. And Brian Branch will not probably play
next year because of the severity of his Achilles
tear. And in defense of this, we had 10 All -Pros.
It's just that six of them were injured for most
of the season. So that's incredible. Five starters
and five back and five rotation guys. And I share
your side of the argument. If I can make mine
though. Yeah. You, Brad went all in on resigning
the core. Okay. And right now, let's just talk
about the defensive side of the ball. Your core
is Eileen McNeil. Hutch, Barnes, and Kirby Joseph.
Kirby Joseph may not be back. Brian Bra - You
know, we don't know that. Sure. Barnes is just
a guy, and that leaves you McNeil who hasn't
registered to tackle in four games, and Hutch.
So you're one for four on that? If Joseph comes
back, you're batting 50%. And these are the guys
that you wanted to sign. You know, we believe
in our guys. These are the guys that are going
to win a championship for us. Sure, but they
got hurt. If I go to the offensive side of the
ball, Montgomery, he's a free agent and probably,
or he's not a free agent, but he'll probably
leave. He's disgruntled. Jamo is not a difference
maker. You extended him. St. Brown, awesome.
Yes, he's the heart and soul of the team. Sewell,
heart and soul of the team. Great moves there.
Jared Goff, we can share our differences on that,
but yeah, you need a quarterback to win in this
league. All of that being out there, there's
no way I want 60 million committed to one player
with a roster with this many holes, and that
is Jared Goff. I think you could get, put it
this way, Chet. You could win nine games next
year, 10 games, 11 games. with a Baker Mayfield,
a Gino Smith, a Jacoby Bessette. Like, I don't
think that the fallout from Jared Goff to, you
know, replacement level quarterbacks. I'm assuming
those guys are available. Yeah. So one of them
will be, someone will be available. And then
You ramp up the defense. You get edge. You get
another partner for hutch at edge. You shore
up that defensive tackle linebacker. You probably
don't touch because it's not that important of
a position anyway. And then you commit any other
resources to the secondary. That's kind of my
rebuild and my fear. My fear is they're going
to sit on the fact that, hey, we've got Glasgow
and Ragnow and Decker coming back. We don't need
to touch the O -line and Ratledge won't be a
rookie anymore. And, you know, and so you're
going to get in like mahogany is going to be
one more year down the road. And we'll have Iguacun
back there with some experience now and Awasiko
with some experience. My fear is they're going
to hold Pat on that offensive line and not do
something about the guys that are that are beat
up, aging. And maybe they'll go all in on like
let's get hutch another edge rusher to rush with
in tandem or Let's go sign another Cornerback
that's available on the market guys that are
available on the market We aren't that good when
it comes to defensive backs you got a trade for
them You got to get rid of some stuff for them.
What do you let me ask? I'm gonna throw something
else at you a Earlier this week There was a pundit.
I can't remember his name now. I don't really
care Somebody on one of the shows talking about
trading a mon raw st. Brown for a haul Where
do you stand on making a crazy deal like that
like taking a mon raw and trading him for a haul
or taking? Jmo, I don't know if you can get rid
of Jmo based on his contract for a haul or or
Gibbs even and trading him for a haul like do
you think trading any one of those position guys?
Because they're the guys who are gonna get you
something I don't know how much golf is going
to get you. You know what I mean? I just mentioned
two of them. No, I'm saying you cut your losses.
You can't trade any of these guys. No, you cut
your losses with golf. And I would trade all
of them. The only untradable guys, I think there's
three untradable lines right now. Who are they?
St. Brown, Sewell, and then the organization
says Hutch. I don't know that I say Hutch. Outside
of that, I think anybody could go on the block.
So St. Brown, Sewell, and Hutch are your untouchables.
If you could get that much for St. Brown, I didn't
read this article, so I don't know what the hall
is. They need more than seven picks next year,
and they need significant free agent help, and
they're gonna have to shop, a la Detroit Tiger
Scott Harrison, the bargain bid on this. Your
picks aren't gonna get you there. I mean, your
draft picks are great. One of those guys might
be somebody who produces in year one, maybe two
of those guys, but just because you have seven
picks, you're not going to get seven productive
players out of that. You're going to get like
two, maybe. And so it's going to be in trades.
You're going to need veterans. You're going to
need veterans. So it's going to be in trades.
You're going to have to be very aggressive and
free agency. I don't know if we have the cap
space for that. I mean, we're a quandary right
now. I don't even know that tearing down is feasible
because they're going to have to keep pieces
because they aren't going to be able to replace
them with anything. And I don't know that they're
going to get trade value in trade for some of
these guys at this point in time. So there's
a lot of question marks. around how are they
going to figure this out? And I think they are
going to lean on like, oh, we're going to get
these offensive linemen back. Let's not dwell
on the line right now, which I think the offensive
line is the single most important part of this
team. It is the single most important. Nothing
else that that really. you know, should be. I
can go without another edge rusher if we can
shore up that offensive line. I definitely could,
but I just don't. It's also very difficult. It's
hard to get offensive linemen who are accomplished
or good offensive linemen. So we'll see what
happens with that. Do you have any thoughts on?
I was reading the free press this morning. They
were talking about Morton and his offensive game
plan coming in this season and the difference
between he and Ben Johnson and what they do differently.
And Morton was going for these explosives, these
plays down the field those plays require you
to hold on to the football longer and they require
a deeper drop back do you do you think golf in
Ben Johnson's offense it was two -step drop fire
it was a very quick everything was simple you
know you guys ran the same routes they just moved
around into different places and ran those routes.
It was a very simple offense, and Goff was able
to hit guys left and right, you know, and with
quick passes, and then they made a lot out of
them with their legs. Do you think Morton's scheme
kind of ruined things from the word go? Do you
think it complicated things unnecessarily? It
definitely complicated things. The offense will
be better next year. Save. Unless they run back,
you know, the the the Veterans Association or
administration for offensive line But if they
put some effort into that with a new Depending
on the coordinator hires and it can't be Johnny
mo part two. Yeah, you got to figure that's an
upgrade And we've already touched on that on
other pods I think there's some scheme blocking
too in that John in Johnny Mo's offense that
just wasn't great Let's just scheme was bad.
I mean Did he overrule Hank Freely? Do you think
this? I don't know. That's a good question. Or
if one of them didn't jive with the other, I'm
not sure. I mean, again, you're you're judging
coaches and you can do the same thing with Calvin
Shepard. And I know you have questions about
him, too. You're judging coaches and coaching
guys who are third and fourth strainers or practice
squad guys trying to come in and play. That's
very difficult to do. Calvin Shepard's only doing
that. He had his line back his front sevens been
healthy all he had it He did have his front seven
his defensive backfield was pretty okay, and
and he was missing a detail here there Yeah,
he's had reading yacres. Yeah, yeah rock. Yes,
in so really he's only missing his safety like
rock Yes, in is not a starter in the league understood
Yeah, I'm not willing to give Kelvin Shepard
Total pass on this no, I don't give a total pass
but I if the offensive coordinators have more
importance But obviously I'm talking about making
bigger wholesale changes because I personally
think That Rod Wood and Sheila will not stand
for this another year. They've tasted success
They know what it's like to have a wait list
now for season tickets and be able to jack up
prices Brad and MC DC are gonna be coaching and
managing for their jobs next year I do feel like
that's healthy though bill Like we all came in
with pretty good ego this year, right? Everybody
was pretty high on themselves and Brad hasn't
had to do. You know, he got everything up there
to where it's a competitive team, but staying
up there seems to be the problem, like keeping
them up there year in, year out. I mean, we have
only had one bad now. He had two great seasons,
one bad season. Ending of last season wasn't
exceptional, but whatever. I think overall on
the season it was good. I think getting there,
he now needs to show that he can build the depth
and go out and get those pieces and be aggressive.
Can he do that? Can he be aggressive or is he
gonna keep trying to? Be the smart guy in the
room and out think everybody we do the impossible
That's we will say scares that living daylights
out of me if he keeps trying to do that I just
don't see success and so listeners We're gonna
wrap it here and let you know that Merry Christmas
again Sorry for this Boxing Day episode where
we're putting nothing but coal in your stock
just a cathartic This is cathartic for us. We
have to get this out That's not Chet and I, that's
the Lions deciding to be beaten by a backup third
string quarterback. We all need to express ourselves
a little. Who threw for 51 yards and beat the
Lions. Six turnovers will do that to you. I know.
Six turnovers. We'll expect a Bears preview and
much more jovial times upcoming. Yeah, let's
go take a breath. Thank you. loyal Lions litter
box listeners, go Honolulu Blue and Silver. Go
Lions!