This is the Litterbox, a Detroit Lions podcast
with your hosts, Chad West and Bill Patterson.
I think in spirit, we are probably done for.
Too many things will have to happen to get us
to the postseason in this in this 2025 -26 season
here. Bill, have you seen a worse quarter of
football in the Dan Campbell era than our third
quarter against the Steelers yesterday? No, Chet,
I mean short answer. That was absolutely awful.
Watching it with family and loved ones. And the
question kept coming up. Have the Lions had the
ball? Yeah, for three total plays in one quarter
of football. So everything you and I have been
stating, Chet, for the last, let's say, eight
weeks came home to roost yesterday. The offensive
line was absolutely abysmal. You know, you and
I have both wondered what this offensive line
would look like without Graham Glasgow and Chet.
It was far worse than I ever could have thought
it. would ever be. And Christian Mahogany probably
came back from his injury too soon because he
was whiffing on blocks all over the place. Kingsley
undrafted free agent. Iguacun was brought on,
but then also Iguacun not going to be here anymore.
He got a quick hook. And, you know, I'd love
to say the defensive line was better, Chet, but
they weren't. They got gouged by the 28th ranked.
rushing offense in the NFL by your Pittsburgh
Steelers to the tune of 8 .5 yards per carry.
Chet, it was as ugly as a game as I've ever seen,
and my question to you is, what do you want for
Christmas for this Lions team first? A new offensive
coordinator, a new defensive coordinator, or
10 new players? I think it's a combination of
the above. I'm not ready to give up on our defensive
coordinator yet. I'm fine with the D coordinator
sticking around for another year. I think we're
good there. I think this is more of personnel
injuries. How many times yesterday did Tony Romo
break down how Harper, who's a second year safety.
And I can't remember who was playing next to
Harper yesterday for most of the game. Was it
Maddox? I don't think it was Maddox because Maddox
was hurt like half the time at least. They had
somebody else running around out there with him.
At any rate, the fact that I can't remember the
name should tell you a lot. They had two safeties
getting sucked up into the middle on every run
play. And the Steelers saw this happen. They
knew that we did not have safety depth and they
knew that we had inexperienced safeties. What
is the name of their offensive coordinator, Bill?
Arthur Smith? Arthur Smith. He was He was painting
with oils yesterday. That man was an artist.
He knew exactly how to attack us and where and
just beat the daylights out of our defense. And
to be honest, that third quarter, I think they
were just flat tired. They were on the field
so much in the third quarter. They just looked
like they couldn't get to a ball to save their
lives. They couldn't get to a guy carrying the
ball to save their lives. It was an absolute
disaster for the defense. And honestly, we talked
about how, oh, they aren't going to run on us.
I didn't pick. Jalen Warren as the fantasy running
back for that game. He blew up. He had a good
game, but so did Kenneth Gainwell, who I decided
to start Tyrone Tracy instead of that, which
every fantasy expert agreed with me on, but I
might lose this week because of that move. And
you were correct. Avante Maddox started yesterday
at strong safety. He did, but he didn't play
much because he got hurt like five times. Yeah.
Daniel Thomas is also Daniel Thomas. Thank you.
It's Harper and Thomas back there and they were
getting sucked up in the middle on every run
play and they would just dart right out to the
side. We had no safety coverage there. They blow
right past everybody. I think the game plan was
to try and get pressure up the middle on Rogers
and we couldn't do it. Our guys just couldn't
get up the middle. The problem with all that
is Arthur Smith's offense hasn't changed since
he first became a head coach with the Atlanta
Falcons. Everybody should have known exactly
what was coming and that's why I put defensive
coordinator on this list. Chet, this is the fifth
straight week the Lions have given up more than
27 points. I don't know that the Kelvin Shepherd
experiment is still... viable in any way shape
or form. If Shep is gone, I'm fine with it. If
he's gone, I'm fine. I'm not going to lose sleep
over Shep being gone. But I do think in the pecking
order of needs, I think this is somewhere in
the bottom, to be honest with you. We've got
to get an OC first. First, we need an OC. And
we need an OC that can game play not just to
score, but to control the clock and keep the
offense on the field. We can't seem to do that.
And I think what we're seeing is MCDC spread
far too thin. in terms of... Wait, way too thin.
He can't manage the game anymore because he's
so worried about, you know, just calling offensive
plays. The other part of this, I think John Morton's
tenure in the NFL is done. Do you think he's
even giving any input at this point? What do
you think his role really is at this point? I'm
sure he, like, reviews... the play sheet or he
chirps in mcdc's ear and says like hey maybe
we should get a run play in here every once i
don't know that he has voting power anymore i
think he might have been officially he might
have gotten voted off the island officially and
it's been a dead man walking for a while I mean,
I think when he was demoted, Dan was like, you
don't have to put the house for sale now, but
you might want to talk to your real estate agent
because you're not going to be here next year.
I have a feeling it was a keep a seat warm thing.
And if we, you know, high upside deal for Morton,
like if we do really well, maybe you spin this
into another deal or you get to stay for another
year or so. But I don't think I, one thing, one
positive I will pull out of all this is the Lions
don't make the playoffs. And knowing what they
need so early, mathematically we're not there
yet, but knowing what they need so early in the
season at this point, Brad Holmes has time to
go out and find the right guy. He's going to
have his pick of the litter here. There's nobody
that's not going to want to be on that staff.
There's nobody that's not going to want to work
the lines. The lines have a good culture going.
They're going to be able to figure this out and
get the guy they want. The question is, will
they choose the right guy? Don't know that they
totally chose. I mean, yes, we can we were left
with Morton last year They were left with Morton.
Thank you. You put the words right in my mouth
Ben Johnson left so late and even though it was
a foregone conclusion the other good viable candidates
had been gobbled up and They did it wasn't that
they didn't have an idea who they wanted They
just couldn't go hire somebody they couldn't
sit there and be like, hey Ben's I guess they
could say like hey You know, you might have a
gig with us, but Ben hasn't left yet. So think
about that before you take anything else. But
guys are, you know, offensive coordinators are
like bird in hand. I'm going where, you know,
if I get an offer, I'm not waiting around for
you guys to figure out if Ben's leaving or not.
So let's talk about a couple names then. I know
you've got a couple that intrigue you. I actually
don't. I haven't dove into this. I haven't wanted
to think about it too much. Outside of like a
Mike McDaniel type guy that if he gets dumped
from Miami, I would take him in a heartbeat.
But I do feel In that, and you give me your ideas
here in a minute, but I feel like in that mold,
we need a guy that's like a proven quantity as
an offensive coordinator that also fits what
Campbell wants to do. Because it's very obvious
to me, if you aren't doing what Campbell wants
to do, he's going to take over. So I like Mike
McDaniel. I don't know that he's as committed
to running the ball as MCDC would be and Brad
Holmes would be. The name. that I think we should
keep a close eye on is because who knows what's
going to happen in Pittsburgh. I mean, they're
probably going to win the division. They're probably
going to make the playoffs. Hats off to the Steelers
yesterday. In our preview chat, we said there
was one thing they could do to win the game,
and that was control the clock, win the turnover
battle, and run the ball. And guess what? Check,
check, check. So, Arthur did it. What I was going
to say is Arthur Smith would be a dream hire
for me. I think he would. I don't think he's
going anywhere. I don't think he is either. He's
like one of those guys is like the career OC
and just stays put and is happy where he is.
Do you know who his dad is? Fred Smith that started
FedEx. Really? He's a trust fund baby. That's
fascinating. Yeah. Has worked his way. Does he
have any money? No, no, he doesn't. But let's
just say, hypothetically, if Tomlin's gone and
the Steelers decide to clean house or if... The
Steelers put pressure on Tomlin to make some
changes. I mean, Arthur Smith would go to the
top of the list for me. I don't know about you,
but he... No, I'm there. We need, like, the mic
-matics of offensive coordinators. We need a
guy that has no ambition to be a head coach,
but just wants to be an O .C., because he loves
the art of the offense. I want a guy who has
authored a book called The Art of the Offense.
Yeah. So, the keys to the game, I guess if we're
gonna recap really quick here, wasn't the bungled...
You know, Aman, Ross, Saint, Brown. Pass interference
that ended the game when... That was terrible,
by the way. Tesla got blocked into that guy.
And I don't want to find excuses. There's a million
reasons we lost this game and it never should
have gotten to that. But you saw that happen,
like his guy cut him off and bounced him right
into the receiver. There was no pick -play on
there. There was nothing close to what Washington
did to our guy. at the other end of the field
when he just flat ran dead into him. So I've
not, I don't, that last play, I get that. That
I understand. That was a push off. I mean, Amon
Ra got a push off. Five grabbed a little, Amon
Ra pushed off. It was a physical play. They call
that like 10 % of the time. But they got Amon
Raw for it right there, because he was right
out in the middle of nowhere. Very hard to question.
So if I had said to you the Lions would have
run the ball 12 times for a total of 15 yards
and 1 .3 yard average, what would you have predicted
the final score to be? A loss, period. I don't
know what the score would have been, but we would
not win a game running the ball that much. And
Jared Goff threw for 350 and three touchdowns,
no interceptions. Jared Goff, I'm going to tell
you, and Romo said this earlier on in the broadcast,
like he could be up for MVP strictly because
he has literally, I think, held that offense
together. Yeah, I think it's him and his precision
and his ability. to pick apart a defense. Yes.
And he did it under duress almost every time.
And you saw him start to get frustrated yesterday
in the second half. It was interesting. Like
Rogers has one failed play and he looks like
he's gonna rip everybody's head off, right? Like
he's just like, oh, everybody's terrible around
me. What the hell's going on? Goff is this patient,
positive, kind of like smack you on the butt
when you do wrong. But yesterday, he had this
look on his face, like, what are you guys doing?
Now granted. He was on his, like, third or fourth
center. And it was like, what? I mean, he couldn't
even get a snap back with the laces in the right
spot. This is the NFL. He snapped the ball with
the laces in the right spot. It was unbelievable
to watch. Like, I can't imagine his frustration.
I can't either. I think he deserves a team MVP
for the season. Don't give it to Gibbs because
Gibbs has disappeared. Yeah, he gets the game
ball, the only game ball for yesterday. Nobody
on the defense deserves anything. Before we,
I guess, round out this and say goodbye, what
happened to the defensive line yesterday? I feel
like Neal had one play. Williams didn't play.
Reader is done. He's quit on the team or quit
on the NFL. Roy Lopez shows up whatever our D
line inside of and and by the way Davenport has
been a non -factor to Waiting for him to be something
has been a huge disappointment. I started thinking
about yesterday Watching plays some of those
guys were getting up kind of slow kind of get
like I think some of them are just playing dinged
up and hurt And I know every NFL player does
by this time this season, but I'm wondering if
McNeil's all the way back. I'm wondering if Reeder
is in good health. I'm wondering if Davenport
is in good health. Davenport got up off the ground
yesterday at one point and had to be helped up
by two guys and shook his head and got back in
the huddle. And I'm going, dude, if you're hurt,
you're not helping us at all. Get out of there.
And I don't want to hammer it home again, but
the lack of depth on both sides of the lines.
is just or choosing the wrong guys. I think it's
choosing the wrong guy Williams and Davenport.
I think you've got guys that should be rotational
pieces coming in as starters. In other parts,
we've lost guys down to where we're in our three
and four deep. Yeah. So you've got guys that
probably shouldn't be starting, don't have a
lot of upside in their career right now, and
guys that are third and fourth stringers on the
backside of them. But the only guy on the defense
this year I'll give a hats off to is Hutch and
yeah, Campbell and Hutch. They have been they've
been there healthy, playing every game, busting
their hump. The rest of those guys like Amik
is like 50 -50. You rock your scene is fine until
he mugs somebody to death. It's a very, you know,
they're it's those guys that don't quite have
it do other things to make up for it and usually
get flagged for doing it right. And it's or overcommit
or something. You kind of watch like that's why
you're back up. So I'm gonna wrap this up the
Lions lost 29 to 24 at home to go five and three
at Ford Field this season Their playoff hopes
are hanging by fingernails essentially They need
to win out and the Packers need to lose out and
that is how they can make the playoffs Last thought
for you Chet is this and I'm gonna give our loyal
litter box listeners a little early Christmas
present and that is this the Philadelphia Eagles
experienced something very similar when Shane
Steichen and Jonathan Gannon were both hired
by the Arizona Cardinals and Indianapolis Colts.
Both coordinators gone. They got the hires complete.
They whiffed. Completely whiffed on it. Then
they didn't win the division, and then they signed
Saquon, got competent coordinators in, and they
won the Super Bowl last year. So there's still
hope. This window's still open and alive. I just
don't feel very good about it in 2025. With that,
go Honolulu Blue and Silver. We'll preview the
Vikings game later this week. Happy holidays
to all of you, and thank you for listening. Go
Lions!