WEBVTT

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This is the Litterbox, a Detroit Lions podcast

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with your hosts, Chad West and Bill Patterson.

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I think in spirit, we are probably done for.

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Too many things will have to happen to get us

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to the postseason in this in this 2025 -26 season

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here. Bill, have you seen a worse quarter of

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football in the Dan Campbell era than our third

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quarter against the Steelers yesterday? No, Chet,

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I mean short answer. That was absolutely awful.

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Watching it with family and loved ones. And the

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question kept coming up. Have the Lions had the

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ball? Yeah, for three total plays in one quarter

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of football. So everything you and I have been

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stating, Chet, for the last, let's say, eight

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weeks came home to roost yesterday. The offensive

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line was absolutely abysmal. You know, you and

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I have both wondered what this offensive line

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would look like without Graham Glasgow and Chet.

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It was far worse than I ever could have thought

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it. would ever be. And Christian Mahogany probably

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came back from his injury too soon because he

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was whiffing on blocks all over the place. Kingsley

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undrafted free agent. Iguacun was brought on,

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but then also Iguacun not going to be here anymore.

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He got a quick hook. And, you know, I'd love

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to say the defensive line was better, Chet, but

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they weren't. They got gouged by the 28th ranked.

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rushing offense in the NFL by your Pittsburgh

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Steelers to the tune of 8 .5 yards per carry.

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Chet, it was as ugly as a game as I've ever seen,

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and my question to you is, what do you want for

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Christmas for this Lions team first? A new offensive

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coordinator, a new defensive coordinator, or

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10 new players? I think it's a combination of

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the above. I'm not ready to give up on our defensive

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coordinator yet. I'm fine with the D coordinator

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sticking around for another year. I think we're

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good there. I think this is more of personnel

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injuries. How many times yesterday did Tony Romo

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break down how Harper, who's a second year safety.

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And I can't remember who was playing next to

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Harper yesterday for most of the game. Was it

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Maddox? I don't think it was Maddox because Maddox

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was hurt like half the time at least. They had

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somebody else running around out there with him.

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At any rate, the fact that I can't remember the

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name should tell you a lot. They had two safeties

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getting sucked up into the middle on every run

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play. And the Steelers saw this happen. They

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knew that we did not have safety depth and they

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knew that we had inexperienced safeties. What

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is the name of their offensive coordinator, Bill?

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Arthur Smith? Arthur Smith. He was He was painting

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with oils yesterday. That man was an artist.

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He knew exactly how to attack us and where and

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just beat the daylights out of our defense. And

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to be honest, that third quarter, I think they

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were just flat tired. They were on the field

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so much in the third quarter. They just looked

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like they couldn't get to a ball to save their

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lives. They couldn't get to a guy carrying the

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ball to save their lives. It was an absolute

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disaster for the defense. And honestly, we talked

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about how, oh, they aren't going to run on us.

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I didn't pick. Jalen Warren as the fantasy running

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back for that game. He blew up. He had a good

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game, but so did Kenneth Gainwell, who I decided

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to start Tyrone Tracy instead of that, which

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every fantasy expert agreed with me on, but I

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might lose this week because of that move. And

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you were correct. Avante Maddox started yesterday

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at strong safety. He did, but he didn't play

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much because he got hurt like five times. Yeah.

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Daniel Thomas is also Daniel Thomas. Thank you.

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It's Harper and Thomas back there and they were

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getting sucked up in the middle on every run

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play and they would just dart right out to the

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side. We had no safety coverage there. They blow

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right past everybody. I think the game plan was

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to try and get pressure up the middle on Rogers

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and we couldn't do it. Our guys just couldn't

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get up the middle. The problem with all that

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is Arthur Smith's offense hasn't changed since

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he first became a head coach with the Atlanta

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Falcons. Everybody should have known exactly

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what was coming and that's why I put defensive

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coordinator on this list. Chet, this is the fifth

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straight week the Lions have given up more than

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27 points. I don't know that the Kelvin Shepherd

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experiment is still... viable in any way shape

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or form. If Shep is gone, I'm fine with it. If

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he's gone, I'm fine. I'm not going to lose sleep

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over Shep being gone. But I do think in the pecking

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order of needs, I think this is somewhere in

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the bottom, to be honest with you. We've got

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to get an OC first. First, we need an OC. And

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we need an OC that can game play not just to

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score, but to control the clock and keep the

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offense on the field. We can't seem to do that.

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And I think what we're seeing is MCDC spread

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far too thin. in terms of... Wait, way too thin.

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He can't manage the game anymore because he's

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so worried about, you know, just calling offensive

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plays. The other part of this, I think John Morton's

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tenure in the NFL is done. Do you think he's

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even giving any input at this point? What do

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you think his role really is at this point? I'm

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sure he, like, reviews... the play sheet or he

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chirps in mcdc's ear and says like hey maybe

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we should get a run play in here every once i

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don't know that he has voting power anymore i

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think he might have been officially he might

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have gotten voted off the island officially and

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it's been a dead man walking for a while I mean,

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I think when he was demoted, Dan was like, you

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don't have to put the house for sale now, but

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you might want to talk to your real estate agent

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because you're not going to be here next year.

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I have a feeling it was a keep a seat warm thing.

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And if we, you know, high upside deal for Morton,

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like if we do really well, maybe you spin this

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into another deal or you get to stay for another

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year or so. But I don't think I, one thing, one

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positive I will pull out of all this is the Lions

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don't make the playoffs. And knowing what they

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need so early, mathematically we're not there

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yet, but knowing what they need so early in the

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season at this point, Brad Holmes has time to

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go out and find the right guy. He's going to

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have his pick of the litter here. There's nobody

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that's not going to want to be on that staff.

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There's nobody that's not going to want to work

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the lines. The lines have a good culture going.

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They're going to be able to figure this out and

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get the guy they want. The question is, will

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they choose the right guy? Don't know that they

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totally chose. I mean, yes, we can we were left

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with Morton last year They were left with Morton.

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Thank you. You put the words right in my mouth

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Ben Johnson left so late and even though it was

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a foregone conclusion the other good viable candidates

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had been gobbled up and They did it wasn't that

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they didn't have an idea who they wanted They

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just couldn't go hire somebody they couldn't

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sit there and be like, hey Ben's I guess they

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could say like hey You know, you might have a

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gig with us, but Ben hasn't left yet. So think

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about that before you take anything else. But

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guys are, you know, offensive coordinators are

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like bird in hand. I'm going where, you know,

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if I get an offer, I'm not waiting around for

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you guys to figure out if Ben's leaving or not.

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So let's talk about a couple names then. I know

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you've got a couple that intrigue you. I actually

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don't. I haven't dove into this. I haven't wanted

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to think about it too much. Outside of like a

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Mike McDaniel type guy that if he gets dumped

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from Miami, I would take him in a heartbeat.

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But I do feel In that, and you give me your ideas

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here in a minute, but I feel like in that mold,

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we need a guy that's like a proven quantity as

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an offensive coordinator that also fits what

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Campbell wants to do. Because it's very obvious

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to me, if you aren't doing what Campbell wants

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to do, he's going to take over. So I like Mike

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McDaniel. I don't know that he's as committed

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to running the ball as MCDC would be and Brad

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Holmes would be. The name. that I think we should

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keep a close eye on is because who knows what's

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going to happen in Pittsburgh. I mean, they're

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probably going to win the division. They're probably

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going to make the playoffs. Hats off to the Steelers

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yesterday. In our preview chat, we said there

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was one thing they could do to win the game,

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and that was control the clock, win the turnover

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battle, and run the ball. And guess what? Check,

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check, check. So, Arthur did it. What I was going

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to say is Arthur Smith would be a dream hire

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for me. I think he would. I don't think he's

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going anywhere. I don't think he is either. He's

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like one of those guys is like the career OC

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and just stays put and is happy where he is.

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Do you know who his dad is? Fred Smith that started

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FedEx. Really? He's a trust fund baby. That's

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fascinating. Yeah. Has worked his way. Does he

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have any money? No, no, he doesn't. But let's

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just say, hypothetically, if Tomlin's gone and

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the Steelers decide to clean house or if... The

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Steelers put pressure on Tomlin to make some

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changes. I mean, Arthur Smith would go to the

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top of the list for me. I don't know about you,

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but he... No, I'm there. We need, like, the mic

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-matics of offensive coordinators. We need a

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guy that has no ambition to be a head coach,

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but just wants to be an O .C., because he loves

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the art of the offense. I want a guy who has

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authored a book called The Art of the Offense.

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Yeah. So, the keys to the game, I guess if we're

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gonna recap really quick here, wasn't the bungled...

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You know, Aman, Ross, Saint, Brown. Pass interference

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that ended the game when... That was terrible,

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by the way. Tesla got blocked into that guy.

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And I don't want to find excuses. There's a million

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reasons we lost this game and it never should

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have gotten to that. But you saw that happen,

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like his guy cut him off and bounced him right

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into the receiver. There was no pick -play on

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there. There was nothing close to what Washington

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did to our guy. at the other end of the field

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when he just flat ran dead into him. So I've

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not, I don't, that last play, I get that. That

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I understand. That was a push off. I mean, Amon

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Ra got a push off. Five grabbed a little, Amon

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Ra pushed off. It was a physical play. They call

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that like 10 % of the time. But they got Amon

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Raw for it right there, because he was right

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out in the middle of nowhere. Very hard to question.

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So if I had said to you the Lions would have

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run the ball 12 times for a total of 15 yards

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and 1 .3 yard average, what would you have predicted

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the final score to be? A loss, period. I don't

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know what the score would have been, but we would

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not win a game running the ball that much. And

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Jared Goff threw for 350 and three touchdowns,

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no interceptions. Jared Goff, I'm going to tell

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you, and Romo said this earlier on in the broadcast,

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like he could be up for MVP strictly because

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he has literally, I think, held that offense

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together. Yeah, I think it's him and his precision

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and his ability. to pick apart a defense. Yes.

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And he did it under duress almost every time.

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And you saw him start to get frustrated yesterday

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in the second half. It was interesting. Like

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Rogers has one failed play and he looks like

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he's gonna rip everybody's head off, right? Like

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he's just like, oh, everybody's terrible around

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me. What the hell's going on? Goff is this patient,

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positive, kind of like smack you on the butt

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when you do wrong. But yesterday, he had this

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look on his face, like, what are you guys doing?

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Now granted. He was on his, like, third or fourth

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center. And it was like, what? I mean, he couldn't

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even get a snap back with the laces in the right

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spot. This is the NFL. He snapped the ball with

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the laces in the right spot. It was unbelievable

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to watch. Like, I can't imagine his frustration.

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I can't either. I think he deserves a team MVP

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for the season. Don't give it to Gibbs because

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Gibbs has disappeared. Yeah, he gets the game

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ball, the only game ball for yesterday. Nobody

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on the defense deserves anything. Before we,

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I guess, round out this and say goodbye, what

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happened to the defensive line yesterday? I feel

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like Neal had one play. Williams didn't play.

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Reader is done. He's quit on the team or quit

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on the NFL. Roy Lopez shows up whatever our D

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line inside of and and by the way Davenport has

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been a non -factor to Waiting for him to be something

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has been a huge disappointment. I started thinking

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about yesterday Watching plays some of those

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guys were getting up kind of slow kind of get

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like I think some of them are just playing dinged

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up and hurt And I know every NFL player does

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by this time this season, but I'm wondering if

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McNeil's all the way back. I'm wondering if Reeder

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is in good health. I'm wondering if Davenport

00:12:31.009 --> 00:12:33.370
is in good health. Davenport got up off the ground

00:12:33.370 --> 00:12:34.870
yesterday at one point and had to be helped up

00:12:34.870 --> 00:12:36.950
by two guys and shook his head and got back in

00:12:36.950 --> 00:12:39.129
the huddle. And I'm going, dude, if you're hurt,

00:12:39.350 --> 00:12:41.730
you're not helping us at all. Get out of there.

00:12:42.850 --> 00:12:45.090
And I don't want to hammer it home again, but

00:12:45.090 --> 00:12:48.730
the lack of depth on both sides of the lines.

00:12:48.990 --> 00:12:52.029
is just or choosing the wrong guys. I think it's

00:12:52.029 --> 00:12:54.610
choosing the wrong guy Williams and Davenport.

00:12:54.950 --> 00:12:57.629
I think you've got guys that should be rotational

00:12:57.629 --> 00:13:02.230
pieces coming in as starters. In other parts,

00:13:02.309 --> 00:13:04.710
we've lost guys down to where we're in our three

00:13:04.710 --> 00:13:06.850
and four deep. Yeah. So you've got guys that

00:13:06.850 --> 00:13:08.490
probably shouldn't be starting, don't have a

00:13:08.490 --> 00:13:10.870
lot of upside in their career right now, and

00:13:10.870 --> 00:13:12.570
guys that are third and fourth stringers on the

00:13:12.570 --> 00:13:14.490
backside of them. But the only guy on the defense

00:13:14.490 --> 00:13:17.409
this year I'll give a hats off to is Hutch and

00:13:17.409 --> 00:13:19.370
yeah, Campbell and Hutch. They have been they've

00:13:19.370 --> 00:13:22.110
been there healthy, playing every game, busting

00:13:22.110 --> 00:13:25.049
their hump. The rest of those guys like Amik

00:13:25.049 --> 00:13:28.279
is like 50 -50. You rock your scene is fine until

00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:31.320
he mugs somebody to death. It's a very, you know,

00:13:31.419 --> 00:13:34.720
they're it's those guys that don't quite have

00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:37.899
it do other things to make up for it and usually

00:13:37.899 --> 00:13:41.299
get flagged for doing it right. And it's or overcommit

00:13:41.299 --> 00:13:43.700
or something. You kind of watch like that's why

00:13:43.700 --> 00:13:46.299
you're back up. So I'm gonna wrap this up the

00:13:46.299 --> 00:13:50.399
Lions lost 29 to 24 at home to go five and three

00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:52.960
at Ford Field this season Their playoff hopes

00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:55.059
are hanging by fingernails essentially They need

00:13:55.059 --> 00:13:57.220
to win out and the Packers need to lose out and

00:13:57.220 --> 00:13:59.600
that is how they can make the playoffs Last thought

00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:02.279
for you Chet is this and I'm gonna give our loyal

00:14:02.279 --> 00:14:04.620
litter box listeners a little early Christmas

00:14:04.620 --> 00:14:07.460
present and that is this the Philadelphia Eagles

00:14:07.460 --> 00:14:09.980
experienced something very similar when Shane

00:14:09.980 --> 00:14:13.289
Steichen and Jonathan Gannon were both hired

00:14:13.289 --> 00:14:15.370
by the Arizona Cardinals and Indianapolis Colts.

00:14:15.450 --> 00:14:17.870
Both coordinators gone. They got the hires complete.

00:14:17.950 --> 00:14:20.759
They whiffed. Completely whiffed on it. Then

00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:23.600
they didn't win the division, and then they signed

00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:26.740
Saquon, got competent coordinators in, and they

00:14:26.740 --> 00:14:28.580
won the Super Bowl last year. So there's still

00:14:28.580 --> 00:14:31.840
hope. This window's still open and alive. I just

00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:35.279
don't feel very good about it in 2025. With that,

00:14:35.500 --> 00:14:37.759
go Honolulu Blue and Silver. We'll preview the

00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:40.220
Vikings game later this week. Happy holidays

00:14:40.220 --> 00:14:42.539
to all of you, and thank you for listening. Go

00:14:42.539 --> 00:14:42.840
Lions!