This is the Litterbox, a Detroit Lions podcast
with your hosts, Chet West and Bill Patterson.
Welcome to the Detroit Lions Litterbox with your
co -hosts, Billy P from the D and Chet West.
We are talking Lions beating the Cowboys and
Chet. I'm going to give you a question here in
a moment, but my big thing is this. The Lions
held the Cowboys explosive offense to just two
touchdowns in one. Yeah, but that was that's
a success difference in the game. And I will
tell you this, as much as I love our field goal
kicker, he is not Brandon Aubrey. That guy is
automatic from. Anywhere yeah, he's he hits it.
He's pretty good, and I'm and that's nothing
against our guy, okay No, no, but I get what
you're saying. I get what you're saying. I think
Aubrey is like a future Morton Anderson on that
Lowry type of Hall of Fame Yeah, how are you?
Garo? Yuppie men or whatever that guy's arrow.
I think it's yarrow. I believe he is silent.
Yeah, I know you're premium. You're premium.
Thank you So anyhow, I think Brandon Aubrey might
be in the best there. I guess quick thoughts.
The Lions did what they needed to do to salvage
two out of three at home. Jermier Gibbs is the
best running back in the NFL. Anybody that wants
to debate that, send us a note because there
is no debate on that. In our Lord's year of 2025
of the NFL season, a CD lamb gets hurt early
in the second half. That hurts. Question for
you Chet, and this is where we're going to start
this. Did George Pickens get hurt on that first
catch where he came up a little gingerly, or
did George Pickens quit on his team? Let's say
you. Bold assumption you're making there of Mr.
Pickens. I don't, this isn't me Chet, Richard
Sherman called him out. Really? Yeah. I did not
see Sherman make this statement. Many people
have called him out on this. But your opinion
is what we really care about. So I want to tell
you what my situation was like for watching this
game. I could not hear the announcers through
most of it. I had to watch it on an iPad due
to the Amazon Prime broadcast because I was in
a hotel room in North Carolina where they did
not have Amazon Prime available for me to watch
on the television set. I could not also mirror
my iPad, so I had to just watch on a iPad screen
and I had other action going on, so I was sharing
a hotel room with my daughter who was doing some
other things in the background, so I was kind
of bouncing in and out of some, we were at a
function and I was bouncing in and out of some
things and so I did not, I watched the game,
but I watched the game. And I just watched what
was happening and I did not hear any of the announcers
or any of the halftime pundits or anything in
their analysis. What I saw was I, I thought he
was going to have a bigger day Pickens. Okay.
And the guys who actually had the big day was
the up and coming Flournoy and lamb had the 121
yards. So until he got hurt. So that Think you
were looting or your next question. Maybe it
was the lamb injury a turning point or something
in the game Well, I just wanted to deal with
Pickens. I mean, I think yeah, it's a matter
of I don't know. I don't know if he's given up
or not Alright, so our listeners I would advise
you to go back to his first catch and see how
he gets up My take is that he's injured Given
his history and the Steelers do not punt on guys
that they draft high that they like Clearly they
didn't like something about him and the head
coach Schottenheimer now had to have a meeting
because of cryptic tweets and social media presence
from one George Pickens. It's the Cowboys. If
they could ever eliminate the drama, they could
actually be a competitive team. Pickens has been
an injury. prone receiver to a degree in his
past. He's a little bit of a leg lamp, fragile.
So we want to be careful. You like that? Oh,
I love that Christmas reference. I don't know,
though, that he was quitting on his team. He
may have felt something and just backed it off
in the left. I think he either dislocated a shoulder
or was concussed, which leads me to my next question
that was not on our pre -show list. So I'm going
to give you a moment to think about this. OK,
please do. Because injuries were abundant. CD
Lamb, obviously the key to the game. So we're
talking about injuries, Chet, and your question
is going to be, I think the Ford Field Turf might
be the worst in the league. You think so? Not
named. Giant Stadium. I'm going to keep talking
while you digest this. Do we need to do a turf
analysis? Well, like when was that turf installed
and have they reinstalled since? Chet, I actually
did a little bit of legwork on this, and it is
not ranked in the bottom five. Really? In any
of the NFL PA Association reveals. However, those
mysteriously just went down because the NFL owners
asked the Players Association to take those down.
Interesting. But what I did dig up, it is not
a very good track. And you're going to hear it
first on this pod, Detroit Lions litter box.
Grow grass indoors, Fordfield. Like they did
for the World Cup in 1994. If you can do it at
the Silverdome, you can do it now. If you can
grow something at the Silverdome, you can grow
it anywhere. In your backyard, you have my alma
mater and many of our listeners' alma mater.
one of the, if not the finest turf grass management
schools in the country, Michigan State University.
Right down the road. You grow that track indoors
and you make it work because I agree and they
can roll that stuff in and out like they do it,
what do they do that in Arizona? Don't they roll
it in and out the end of the stadium? Do something
creative like that. Get Michigan State involved,
throw them some dockets to get things going.
Yeah. I agree with that wholeheartedly. I'd like
to see real turf indoors. And if they grew something
in the Silverdome, the Silverdome, nothing lived
in there. There was no living. There was no prospect
for life inside of the Silverdome as much as
we love the Silverdome. No, we didn't. No, we
remember. No, we did not love it. You're going
to tell me there wasn't a little romance to a
smoke filled interior stadium like that that
you could bear. If you were in the upper deck
during a Pistons game, you could barely see the
floor. And the curtains. It was like the world's
largest clam bake. It was incredible. OK, let's
go back to the curtains. Very sexy. The curtains
were super sexy. So Silverdome memories are as
foul as fun. Even if you showed up 15 minutes
before kickoff to an hour before kickoff. There
was already a smoke fill haze even after they
banned smoking. It was as if the guys like vacuuming
the turf in there were smoking just chain smoking
the whole day or something before you got there.
The turf was literally painted concrete and then
my other memory is this there were never enough
men's rooms and so we have listeners and friends
that are permanently scarred by the bathroom
lines at the silver dome. There are. I do remember
grown men peeing in the sink at the Silverdome,
which is absolutely disgusting, and I've never
seen that in all my visits to all the stadiums
elsewhere in this country and abroad. They don't
do that in Spain. They don't do that in England.
They don't do that in Scotland. It was a filthy,
awful place. My favorite part. But they grew
grass there in 94, and that tells me you can
do it anywhere. Exactly. One last Silverdome
thought. Yes. Your favorite thought in mine was
when you were a little kid, the wind pushing
you out of the stadium because of the inflation
of the dome. The turnstile doors. It was incredible.
You'd hit that and you'd get so excited. You're
like, I'm going to get thrown into the parking
lot from here. Yeah, it was awesome. That and
when the lion stunk. you would just take like
a quarter off and go outside and play football
on the hill outside the doors exactly exactly
that was i think i spent like an entire game
out there once because they were so bad anyhow
let's go back really good in and out privileges
yes for a pro stadium very much so you could
just kind of go in and out as you pleased all
right so i'm back to the turf monster this was
my question for you so cd lamb goes down that
clearly probably didn't hurt the Lions. It definitely
hurt the Cowboys. The Lions win, but the Lions
do not come out of this unscathed. Now Brian
Branch is injured. He snapped his Achilles. He
is done for the year. We also lost Thomas Harper,
second defensive play of the game to a concussion.
We don't have any safeties left, do we? I don't
think we have a whole lot of anything left at
this point. Our defense, I was thinking about
this today, are the injuries this season, the
injury dilemma this season worse than it was
last season? I think it is. I think we've lost
more key cogs and pieces and had more influx
in and out. Now granted, we lost Hutch last season.
That was awful. We lost Anzaloni for a couple
games last season. That was awful. I think Branch
was kind of in and out likewise at times. We've
lost more this season though in volume than we
did last season and I think it's making running
a defense very difficult. 100 % because last
year it was just on one side of the ball and
it was mainly the defensive line. However, when
Aileen McNeil got hurt and was lost for the season,
we'd already lost Hutch. But I feel the same
way now with Branch going out with Terryon Arnold
out. with the unknown question mark of is Kirby
Joseph going to be back ever? And now Thomas
Harper's played well for a backup second year
player from Notre Dame. He's been more than adequate.
And if he misses significant time, Chet, we don't
have, you're talking about Avante Maddox is like
our go -to safety. Matthew Stafford and Aaron
Rodgers and hell even JJ McCarthy are going to
feast on that. I have a feeling Shepard's only
game plan from here on out is going to be having
all out blitz all game long. Kind of. I don't
think you can do it. Like Aaron Glenn did last
season. He's gonna have to go to the all -out
blitz every play and hope to God that somebody
plays some sort of defensive backfield when they
are able to get rid of a ball because I don't
see a world where we are going to rely on these
D backs covering anybody going forward. It's
going to have to be putting pressure on slower
Older quarterbacks and getting them to make mistakes
that are just so egregious and or sacking them
It's just and and by the way, what will actually
somewhat help is getting that lead and just keeping
the offenses off the field Running at a lead
run the ball beat up the clock, keep the offenses
off the field, fewer opportunities to score,
yada, yada, yada. But yeah, we're in a situation
now where we're going to have to game plan around
this. So we're eight and five. We're on the outside
looking in for the playoffs. We got good news
yesterday, which is also why we deliberately
did this pod. The Packers beat the Bears. We
don't like the Packers ever winning. However,
somebody had to win the game and it actually
helps the Lions because they still have a game
to play against the Bears. So there's an opportunity
there for the Lions to get into the playoffs.
Here's where I'm going to go, Chad. I have a
few thoughts on what needs to happen and I'm
curious to hear your retort on some of this.
The injuries are widespread because it's on both
sides of the ball. You know, last year it was
just one side of the ball. Now we've got Laporta.
We've got Kalief Raymond, even though Go figure.
You've said this all season. Tom Kennedy, TK85's
a revelation in the return game. I'm going to
tell you right now. I have never been a huge
Khalifa Inman fan. I've not been against him
out there being out there. He's done some great
things. But I also was always kind of wondering
if he was the best at seeing those seams and
whatnot in the return game. Seems to always kind
of do a little too much. Tom Kennedy catches
a ball and it's like a bolt of lightning for
the first seam he sees. And he hits that seam.
A lot of the times in these past two games, he's
hit that seam. I have an appreciation for that
guy. And if you saw the post game, when, you
know, the Dan Campbell game ball situation, he
gave a game ball to TK 85 and the locker room
went absolutely crazy. These guys love that guy.
So these are the kind of I don't want to call
them a glue piece. OK, but these are the romantic
little stories that can get intertwined in a
season and pick a team up just a notch or two
as they're going through difficult times. These
injury things. I mean, it's like we're climbing
Everest. Every week we climb Everest we finally
get to the top and then you realize jeez I got
to do the Hillary step I got to do the most nuanced
piece of the climb just to get to the peak It's
like every injury is a Hillary step chat a great
analogy, but no, they're only at base camp They
are actually really having gotten up past. Okay.
Yeah, so as we wrap this up because Litterbox
lions listeners, we will give you a preview of
the Rams Full detail once we get injury reports
probably come late Thursday early Friday game
balls Obviously TK 85 if it's good enough he
gets one Campbell Yes, the other guy that got
one was our guy Bob Muhammad three sacks Bob
Came out all we had to do was call him out on
the pod for not doing anything three weeks ago
And the next thing you know he gets a sack two
back -to -back games. Hell three in this one.
Love it Sorry, we might lose our PGA rating on
that now It's just an AG double hockey stick.
It's Bob. It's Bob. It's Bob Ahmed. And by the
way, I want to call something else out that I
don't think that may have slid through the wickets
here. Our guy, Tylek Williams, is now starting
to get talked about as one of the top D tackles
in the league at the moment. Which is excellent.
He also gets a game ball, and I appreciate that.
Can we circle back to him in just one second?
Other two game balls are on the offensive side.
Jameer Gibbs from here on out gets a game ball
every game and Here's the guy that I would say
is the MVP of this team. Could barely walk before
the game. I don't know what they put in that
leg or an ankle. I don't know. If MCDC has a
player that represents grit, biting kneecaps,
it has to be the Sun God. And the Sun God playing
is what won that game for the Lions. And I just,
he also gets a game ball in a game. Any game
he plays he and Gibbs get it and then let's get
back to our guy Williams because gosh darn it
Brad Holmes has been getting beat up and he nailed
it taking him by this podcast at time, but Tyleek
is a top 12 de -tackle now per PFF. I mean, you're
doing a soft clap. You're doing an interesting
soft clap right now. It was weird. It looked
like you had flippers or something. But at the
same time, he's very, he kind of goes about his
work silently. You don't hear his name called
a lot during the game, but then you go back and
think about it. It's like, oh, Gervonta Williams,
I had 67 rushing yards in this game. Gervonta
Williams has been great all season long. against
very good D lines. Now you put McNeil and Tylek
in the middle there and Lopez has been doing
his share. As you said, he'll be gone end of
season. He's had a great season, too. I think
Tyleka is starting to get more opportunities,
though. I think he's working his way into that
lineup a lot more. I'll be curious to see how
he his development progresses. Can I actually
give you the key that I think led to his getting
a game ball? And we should also give like an
honorary nod. McNeil didn't have to be on the
outside. He actually got to play the position
that Bob did his job. And Hutch, fed off of that,
probably helped Bob do his job. I mean, when
they don't have to double an end and he's doing
a good job, he's going to get around. Like you
saw Bob was one -on -one almost all game long
and he was able to crush the guy. It also helped
having backup tackles. But anyhow, we digress.
All right. Last thing on this. And this is a
Hutch thought for you. I personally think and.
I'm not alone. I've heard other media sorts.
He plays every friggin snap. Yep. And you look
at Miles Garret. He rarely sits. He rarely sits.
If you look at Miles Garret. I know exactly where
you're going with this. If you look at Micah
Parsons. Yeah. And then let's talk about. They're
going two snaps every four downs, basically.
The Bosa's would. Well, the Bosa that's healthy
and then Max Crosby, right? Is that kind of our.
They're very situational. I think Crosby probably,
yeah, I think Crosby probably gets more snaps
than like Parsons and Garrett. But yeah, he's
also playing for a team that's won like three
games. Exactly. He's as mismanaged possibly as
Aiden is. But I was going to say this earlier
on when we were kind of giving Aiden some hell.
Aiden plays easily, easily three, if not four
downs a series. And he's on the field 80 % of
another team's possession. So these other guys
are out there half the time. I mean Parsons is
out there half the time. Garrett is out there
half the time. Crosby, probably a little over
half the time. These guys aren't being asked
to play four downs a series. They're asked to
play one or two. They come in situationally almost,
like a closer or something in a baseball game.
So, you know, you get in a third and eight, let's
bring Parsons in to put the heat on, but don't
leave them in there first and 10 and second and
five and all that. So maybe they do need to manage
Aiden a little more. Maybe that's the key here.
Do they manage him well enough? Do they keep
his engine fresh? I don't know. Does he want
it that way? He might like to be out there. Good
point, though. It's a great call out. All right.
So let's celebrate the victory. We have a 325
Central Standard Time, 425 Eastern Standard Time
tilt against the Rams. Expect a preview later
this week. Let's target Friday for that to be
published and out there. Lovely. Can't wait to
see you all. There we thank you for listening.
Go Honolulu blue and silver, go Lions. And thank
you for listening to the Detroit Lions litter
box.