This is the Litterbox, a Detroit Lions podcast
with your hosts, Chad West and Bill Patterson.
Litterbox Lions listeners, we have a tilt against
America's team this week. Our Lions will be home
at Ford Field. taking on the Dallas Cowboys.
And I am I've started diving into some of the
stats and some of the nuances to the Lions season
here. And Bill, I'm seeing a few things that
are interesting. I'm starting to dive into things
like schedules and matchups. And it's starting
to become very evident that the Lions have had
a rough road up till now. They've had a lot of
injuries. But today we learned that they might
might be able to pick up some help. Off the old
waiver wire. I won Darius Slay. Has become available.
Has made himself available. He's asked, he has
requested his release from the Pittsburgh Steelers.
Probably not big play Slay anymore, right? But
maybe medium play Slay? Better than probably
what we got back there right now. What do you,
what do you say? Would you, are you willing to
take a flyer on Darius Slay? All right. Darius
Slay was not on my bingo card to open the show
today. However, I would say that - I sprung this
on you. I sprung it on you. He's not big place
slay anymore, but he's somewhere between Diet
Coke and Tab, which is still an upgrade over
what we have. When I get to the injury news,
none of it's good, although I just got - Was
Tab the one that has the saccharine warning?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay, all right. I always
wondered what that was all about. That and squirt
were my grandmother's favorite drinks. Anyway,
where we're going on this is Yes, Chet. Any help
would be welcome in the secondary now. You're
drinking the squirt if it's offered. Yeah. Or
the tab. So, uh, America's team, how about them
Cowboys? Uh, this week, Thursday night, it's
going to be the, you know, only tilt on. I'm
looking forward to it. And I think what we need
to do is probably start with our injury report
to kind of walk through and then let's get over
to your statistics and matchups. Cause I agree
with you. The Lions are dealing with some tough
sledding. So Do you want me to kick things off
with go for it? Give me give me the sad long
drawn out story of our lion's injury report.
Why big play or tab slay might be needed is because
of this. Teran Arnold injured his shoulder. He
got two opinions, one that said he needed surgery,
the other that said he could give it a go. He
gave it a go and guess what happened? He now
needs surgery. He is out for the season. So that
is bad news on the Lions injury front. Number
one, number two, who did not practice. Khalif
Raymond is still dealing with his ankle issues.
Aman, St. Brown, the Sun God, is still dealing
with ankle issues. Brock Wright has a neck issue,
and I read today, Chet, that it is out. I think
he's out for the season. It's a fractured trachea.
What's going on with the throats and tracheas
and whatnot on this team? I don't... Lions need
better face masks or something, or like some
protection. Do they need those chin, those like
throat protectors goalies wear? Yes, yes. Something
dangling down from their face mask. This is the
same injury that one Frank Ragnow had. I didn't
know you could fracture your trachea. A trink
fracture. Yeah, I know it's happened twice to
two lions. It's it's horrible. It sounds terrible.
Yeah, so I don't expect Brock Wright to play.
Dan Campbell talked about among Ross St. Brown
yesterday and said it's game time, but we don't
know. But anyway, those are the four that did
not practice for obvious reasons. Limited practice.
Brian Branch, he's still dealing with his toe
and his ankle. Taylor Decker, limited, but he's
going to be limited probably for the rest of
the year. He's been limited since basically like
since week two. Graham Glasgow, good news. His
knee, he was limited. More good news. Kirby Joseph
was limited. That's the first time he has been
limited in seven weeks. So that is great news.
More on that if we get any updates, we'll we'll
try to include those maybe in a bonus Sion Vake
Now is dealing with a thumb injury He was limited
still not sure if he can return kicks and then
we lose a tight end and then we gain a tight
end back Shane Zylstra from the flying Zylstra
Brothers. Yes is back from his knee injury and
was limited so bonus question while you're on
it Would you take Shane Zylstra or Brock Wright
given the choice with or without a fractured
throat? Without the throat. Both are perfectly
healthy. Brock Wright all day. Really? Over Zylstra.
I always liked what Zylstra brought to the field.
To some degree or another. But I also kind of
like what Brock Wright brought to the field.
I mean, we're missing Sam Laporta in a big way.
We will miss Terryon Arnold as we have in a big
way. Let me know your thoughts and then I can
move on to the Cowboys. Laporta's injury, he's
out for the season likewise. So we're missing
guys like Taryn Arnold, Sam Laporta, you know,
you've got this whole Ragnow thing fell apart.
Ragnow's got, apparently tore his hammy on the
way over to the practice facility or something.
I have no clue how you discover a grade three
hamstring in flight to coming back from retirement.
That's odd to me. You've got Glasgow, looks like
he's on the way back, although... MCDC. did say
that he thought Frank worked out too hard to
get back and tore his hammy and is so tough that
he just showed up and was like, well, let's see
what happens for for next season. But he's back
on the retirement list now. That's interesting,
though. That's good info. I didn't know that.
I just don't. We're missing a lot of guys for
the whole season. Arnold, you know, Laporta.
You're going to have these guys falling out.
You get who knows if we get Amun Rabak. These
aren't. bit players. These are key players. These
are stars. These are stars at their position.
And then maybe we get Kirby back this week, but
did you hear that he deleted all his social media?
Yeah, he said something happened. No, he's trying
to focus. I read that up today as well. He's
trying to focus just on recovery and didn't want
any distractions. And apparently there were some
Twitter wars and other social wars going on and
he made a few cryptic posts or something. Yeah.
So he's just trying to take the high road on
it and go radio silent. I hope all is well on
that. And that's all I can do. Let's do some
stats. Let's do some matches. Are you ready to
get off the depressing news of injuries? Well,
we need to do cowboys as well. Oh, gosh. Yeah.
And then this will make us happier, right? Well,
hold on. I have one more for you. Okay. If I
tore my hamstring or you tore your hamstring,
I don't know that I could pod, let alone... show
up to do a physical. It would be rough. It would
be rough. I mean, you were in a boot for a while
in potting. You did okay with that. I can play
her. I can play her. You did pretty well. There
were a couple of drugged out days where you were
on some painkillers, but you did pretty well.
Yeah. Acetomedophon. Really knocking it out.
Anyway, Jadavian Clowney, their edge is dealing
with a hammy. He did not practice. Tyler Guyton,
they're starting offensive tackles dealing with
an ankle. He did not practice. Hakim Adinje is
the other offensive tackle. He is also dealing
with a knee injury. He was limited. Now we're
going to go to the secondary. Trevion Diggs or
Trevon Diggs, excuse me. Cornerback dealing with
a knee limited. Their other edge. dealing with
a shoulder, limited. Malik Hooker, free safety,
back, limited. James Houston. We remember him,
Lions fans. He's not much of an edge. He's dealing
with a foot and ankle, limited. This is a name
for you, Chet. George Pickens, dealing with a
calf and a knee, limited. Donovan Wilson, safety,
dealing with a neck. Non -fracture, trachea,
but he's still limited. And then we've got four
full practices. Daron Bland, who is one of their
starting corners. Kailene Carson dealing with
a hammy full participant OSA O DZ away Defensive
tackle dealing with an elbow. He's not really
gonna be much of a difference maker He's a depth
piece full practice and full participant and
then Cavante turpin their number three receiver
is dealing with a shoulder injury He was a full
participant, but he looked pretty gimpy from
the video I saw so they're dealing with a host
of injuries. So It is basically week 14 in the
NFL and that is our injury report. Let's get
into some stats and matchups. Let's do that.
Now I would like you to tell me. What the Lions
are going to have to prepare for with this Cowboys
offense? An explosive offense that is currently
ranking amongst the top in the NFL. Right now,
the Indianapolis Colts are averaging the most
points per game at 29 .8. Number two is going
to be your Dallas Cowboys at 29 .3. And then
tied for third place is going to be your Detroit
Lions at 29 .2 with the Seattle Seahawks. Now
let's talk a little bit about yards per game.
That's where the edge is decisively in the Cowboys'
favor. They lead the league in 4 ,1717 yards.
That's an average of just under 400 yards a game.
That's 393 .1. Our Lions are total for the season
4 ,515 for an average of 376 .3. Where we want
to get into the weeds chat is this Dallas does
their damage through the air three thousand two
hundred and fifty five yards for an average of
two seventy one point three a game Detroit Also
does some damage through the air, but not nearly
as much as Dallas does twenty eight hundred fifty
eight for an average of two thirty eight point
two The opposite can be said for rushing the
Lions 1657 yards, which comes out to 138 .1 a
game. The Cowboys 1462 for 121 .8. So if anything,
you're looking at two explosive offenses, but
the Cowboys are going to want to do their damage
through the air against our beat up secondary.
I think the Lions are going to want to run the
ball to establish play action and then pick on
some of those injuries that I talked about both
at the safety spots and at the starting cornerback
spots for the Cowboys. I'm going to throw some
defensive stats in here here that stick out to
me. They're pretty incredible. First of all,
for as successful as the Cowboys offense is their
defense is an atrocity. And with all those injuries,
I can't imagine it's going to be any better for
total Defense, total team defense. Defensive
yards on average allowed. The Cowboys are 29th
out of 32 teams. They allow 376 .2 yards per
game. 41 touchdowns they've allowed so far, which
is by far in the bottom three or four. So those,
the whole correlation meets there. Lions, if
you want to kind of compare the Lions, we do
our share of shredding their defense apart. The
Lions are right in the middle of the pack. They're
ranked 14th in defensive yards. allowed per game
at 316 .2. They've allowed 33 touchdowns. That's
a little high for the middle of the pack, but
it's still the middle of the pack. I was shocked
to see that they actually rated that high. I
did not think that they had as good a team defense.
Now, passing defense. You want to get into this?
The Cowboys are 30th out of 32 in passing. They
allow 251 .2 on average per game, 28 touchdowns.
The Lions sit at 17, so their passing defense
is their weakness on their defense, and it's
still trending to middle of the pack level there.
25 touchdowns, 212 .5 yards. There is a weakness
for the Lions coming up. I'm going to mention
here in a minute, but let's get to it. Rushing
defense. The Lions are 11th. OK, they've almost
got a top 10 rushing D. Only allowed eight touchdowns
there. Cowboys. This is their biggest strength
and their 20th. Ranked in the still, in the bottom
third, 124 .7 a game, they give up 13 touchdowns.
Okay, so still a whole 10 spots lower than the
Lions there likewise. Then we have scoring defense.
This is where things get pretty ugly for the
Cowboys. 31st out of 32 teams. 28 .5 points allowed
per game. 41 touchdowns allowed. The Lions, dead
smack in the middle again at 15th. 22 .8 points
per game allowed. 33 touchdowns. So you're starting
to see this trend. The Lions defense is pretty
average for the league statistically. The Cowboys
are in the bottom three to four in almost every
category. Red zone defense, the Cowboys are awful.
31st out of 32. They allow 71 .1 % of red zone
opportunities to score. The Lions on the other
hand, this is their Probably their biggest weakness
is red zone defense. They're at 27th. They allow
sixty three point two percent to score. So that
would be a lion's weakness. I think you and I
have seen that man coverage in the red zone.
They struggle a little bit, especially against
a passing game and third down defense. I was
shocked to see this. The Cowboys are the worst.
So, Dan, feel free to go for it on third and
fourth down. tomorrow or on thursday at will
they are the worst as far as third down defense
goes the lions actually sit up at 11th we have
a pretty good third down d i don't know how that's
possible But we do. So that's kind of the tale
of the tape on the defenses there. I was a little
shocked to see the Lions actually did rank in
the top half or in the middle of the pack and
most of this stuff. But then I went back and
I started looking at some of the schedules and
I'm like, how do the Cowboys have so many wins?
And you kind of skewered me for this, Bill. I've
been looking at schedules a lot this year and
the opponents. because of the fact, probably,
because any year when we play a weak schedule
and the Lions are winning, we think they're the
greatest thing in the world. Then they get bounced
out in the first round of the playoffs. This
year, they got the toughest schedule in the NFL,
and it's been a little difficult. They're seven
and five. They haven't had their way with everybody.
But then I go look at the Cowboys. Their wins
have come against both New York teams, both not
good, Washington, Las Vegas. Philadelphia and
KC. So their last two wins are their most impressive
against teams that are kind of reeling at this
point. And Philly, we know about Philly reeling.
And KC, who hasn't had the best season on the
face of the earth. Still good, good wins for
them. Don't get me wrong. They're both home games.
Okay. So those two wins took them to six, five
and one. They got that lone tie. You know that
familiar with that because it was against the
Packers back in week four. So that... You know,
they tied the Packers 40 to 40, again, at home,
and they beat Philly by three and beat KC by
three at home. So the rest of the teams they
beat really aren't much. And they've lost to
teams like the likes of Carolina, Arizona, Chicago,
Philly, all beat them. So these are, I don't
think they're that great at this point. I know
they're trending up great. They're very beatable
for us. Great research. And so basically in the
immortal words of Lloyd Christmas, you're saying
there's a chance. I'm saying there's a chance.
You're saying there's a chance. Yes. I'm saying
there's a chance. One more X factor for you on
statistics before we bounce over to fantasy and
Vegas. Let's talk about turnover margin. The
Lions are plus five for the year. They've got
13 takeaways and they've given it away. opposite
tail of the tape for the Cowboys. They're negative
five. They've caused 10 turnovers, but they've
given it away 15 times. If the Lions are going
to win this game, which I think you and I are
both leaning that they're going to, turnovers
are going to play a part in it. I think Jared
Goff is going to play Uh, he's going to play
the role of a maestro, uh, dissecting this defense
that is awful, as you mentioned on third and
fourth downs. And I think there's going to be
the opportunity for the lions to set up the play
action with Monte and Gibbs running well, and
then getting some big chunk plays to Jamo and
hopefully Isaac Tesla gets going and shows America's
team what he and what every Detroit fan is hoping
he can become. You and I both took the Cowboys
in our preview the other day. I mean, we were
beat up. We were reeling from that Thanksgiving
game. I don't think we thought the Lions had
any hope. But after I've gone and look at the
stats and the schedule now, I am starting to
churn a little here. I'm starting to drink the
Kool -Aid, a little bit of the Blue Kool -Aid,
the Honolulu Blue Kool -Aid. I'm starting to
warm to a Lions victory here in this game. They
need it. their backs are against the wall. So
I can see it being, I know this, we're going
to get to the fantasy and we're going to get
to the point spreads. The over is going to be,
if you're not hitting the over on this one, as
they say, you're not doing it right. All right,
fantasy, who do you have for me? I love, I'm
going to take somebody I didn't think I'd be
taken, but I'm going to take a one Jared Goff.
I think Jared is going to be able to throw on
these guys at will. And I'm going to couple him
with Jamir Gibbs. I think the two of them could
have a day through the year in a very odd way.
It's going to be the quarterback running back
tandem. Gibbs is going to get some receiving
yards out of this whole thing. Maybe a tutty
in there. I think Goff's going to be able to
throw a little more. Their edge rush is injured.
They don't have the greatest defense as it is.
And it's very possible that we could just run
all over him. So take Gibbs. He's your first
probably. And then I'm taking off in this one.
I'm rolling with him. You're not buying into
the rebuilt Cowboys defensive line of Quinan
Williams and Kenny Clark. Not enough. OK. Not
enough. All right. Not enough. Who do you have
on the Cowboys side for us? Anybody that is catching
a pass. George Pickens, Dak Prescott throwing
to him probably isn't a bad pick. George Pickens,
Javante Williams has been a strong runner all
year, but I'm going to lean on the fact that
the Detroit run defense is not broken. yet. But
I think anybody catching a pass out there, you
know, you got to be looking at Pickens. You got
to be looking at those guys. So I think those
guys are going to have a field day. So I'm taking
the quarterbacks on both sides of the ball and
then I'm taking Gibbs on the Lions side and I'll
take Pickens on the Cowboys side. All right.
Good, good stuff there. It's not fantasy related.
I do think one of the difference makers in this
game though is going to be our guy, Jack Fox.
Really? booming punts when the Lions have to
punt, which won't be often, but I think he is
going to have one of his good special teams days.
Okay. Let's talk about the Vegas on this. It
opened it. Lions favored by negative three and
a half. It's now lane three, which means, you
know, half million dollars has gone the Cowboys
way. You talked about the over under 54 and a
half. That's what it opened at as well. And since
we are always wrong on this, I'm going to say
Take the lions and go under because just fade
opposite of whatever I'm saying and you're sure
to win. Whatever you feel like putting down as
probably if you're listening to this pod for
your gambling advice, you're in trouble That's
a problem for you. That might be that might be
your your first one is probably admitting that
you've got a problem gambling Your second one
is listening to us for advice, but I want to
put a caveat on a few things here, too I normally
don't do fantasy with guys on a Thursday night
game because Thursday night games are just such
a mess offensively Too much. It was short week.
They have a short week to prep It's he's usually
kind of ugly because of that and a little slow
every almost every position player cd lamb george
pickens jamison williams both golf and dac Plus
you've got gibbs are all in the top five for
positions in fantasy football from most outlets
right now And that's that's incredible. I mean
that for a thursday night game. That's incredible
jake ferguson is seventh in tight end rankings
right around there for uh For the Cowboys, he
could do some damage to us, too. So if you need
a tight end, just drop in there. Drop old Fergie,
Jake in there. Other than that, yeah, that's
I think there's going to be an offensive explosion
this week. OK, you know, the interesting part
about this is typically Thursday night weeks.
I mean, both teams typically play in the same
time slot before and after. But this one's interesting
for the fact that both teams had a full week
to prepare since they're both the traditional
teams. So this would kind of be a neat one if
it could continue season after season to be the
Thursday following the Thanksgiving. Follow the
Thanksgiving and drop these two guys on the Thursday.
I like playing the Cowboys. And that's that's
where I'm going to begin. I mean, I like that
idea. Plus, it's kind of like having Maction
in the NFL. We get a Thursday night game. I like
it. We like it. Yeah. All right. And they're
playing in a sort of field. So I'm going to take
the Lions. I am going to go. something to the
effect of 38 to 24 Lions, and it's turnovers
that are going to be the difference in this.
I guess that puts me on the over so sorry. But
that's that's just what I'm doing off the top
of my head. What do you have to say? I think
it's going to be a tie. 5656. It's going to end.
We'll end at 35 all but they'll just keep scoring
touchdowns on each other. And so the time just
runs off the clock and overtime. I love it. I'll
tell you what. I'll take the Lions forty five
Cowboys forty two. They miss a field goal to
tie it at the end from like 60 yards. Nice. All
right. Field's going to be loud. Let's go. Honolulu
blue and silver. Thank you for listening to the
Detroit Lions litter box. I'm your co -host Billy
P with my co -host Chet West. We thank you for
listening and go Lions. Go Lions.