This is the Litterbox, a Detroit Lions podcast
with your hosts, Chad West and Bill Patterson.
Lions Litterbox fans, we got a little preview
for you guys today here for the commander's game
coming up this weekend in Washington, D .C. We
get the afternoon launch. The 325 game, I am
partial to the late game on a Sunday for one
reason or the other. Gives me a little time to
do a few things maybe early on in the day and
then come home, relax and watch some Lions football.
Bill, we got the commanders on tap. Do you have
any instant thoughts in regards to this team?
I have a feeling you have a few things on your
mind. Yeah, I do check. Good question. One of
the commanders have lost four games straight.
And they're dealing with a lot of media backlash
for the fact that they were getting smoked by
the Seattle Seahawks at home and left their second
year quarterback, Jaden Daniels in, and he ended
up dislocating his elbow. With that, all three
of their should be starting receivers are out
at this point. Noah Brown is on the injured reserve
list. Scary Terry McLaurin is taking some time
to get back. And Luke McCaffrey is also on the
injured reserve list. So it's going to be Debo
Samuel and a bunch of other guys. So I would
think the mismatch in this in advantage would
be the Lions secondary and the fact that the
Lions pass rush has been healthy this year. And
if they can get home on a backup quarterback,
Marcus Mariota, who doesn't have a full arsenal
of weapons, it would seem that the Lions defense
would have the advantage against the commander's
offense. I'm going to take a slightly different
approach here. Yeah, I don't disagree with you,
but I think if there was a game where the Lions
offense could get healthy, especially the passing
game. and I know we're focusing a lot on the
rush lately. The commanders have a terrible pass
defense. They're like 24th in the league. The
Lions apparently have the 10th rated passing
offense in the league, even though it wouldn't
look that way to you and I, especially over the
last couple of games. I think week two and three
blew that up. The Bears could have. Although
we've had good passer ratings, I mean, Goff's
passer ratings have been quite good. I mean,
you know, 108 .4 against the Vikings, 118 against
the Chiefs, 151 against the Bengals. I just think
you look at the commander's stats against passing
offenses, it is not good. And quarterback ratings
are through the roof and they haven't played
the strongest offenses. The Raiders had a 132
.7 quarterback rating. The Falcons had a 125
.9 quarterback rating. The Chargers, they beat
the Chargers. The Chargers struggled in that
game. That's their one win on their entire schedule
that's impressive. The other two teams they beat
were the Giants in week one, who was not good,
and the Raiders. The Chargers were without both
starting tackles. I believe they were. At that
point, that was week five. That's the secret
sauce there. Yeah. But they've lost to the Bears,
the Cowboys, the Chiefs, and the Seahawks. Not...
Pushovers by any stretch over the last four games
and I still do believe we're gonna get a fight
because unlike you I think they could Expose
our defensive backfield right now only because
of the fact that our D backs are just not if
we're running Arthur mullet out there And I'm
sure you're gonna have some injury updates here
in a little bit But if we're running Arthur mullet
and Amiko Robertson out there again I don't have
a lot of faith that we could defend anyone even
if they have their key receivers out for the
game my thoughts all right, I disagree completely
and Wash out your mouth. We do not diss on him.
He is dirt. He is a fabulous Nickelback. I appreciate
him, but I just don't know that he's the corner
that we, you know, you don't want him one on
one man, man coverage on a guy. I just don't
see it as he's working. He's the nickel slot
guy. I know being forced. I know, I know asked
to do something that I'm saying. No, you're exactly
right. You're right. At any rate. All right,
injuries. You want to move on to injuries? Give
me your injury talk. It's it's a brutal. You
wouldn't think having already had the Detroit
Lions by that it would be this bad. Kirby Joseph
is not practicing. He is at the facility in Ellen
Park, but his knee is still bothering him. Pat
O 'Connor, who's really more a depth piece on
the defensive line, is battling a knee injury
as well. He is not practicing. And then the last
player who is not practicing or participating
is Jacob Sailors, the running back. He's dealing
with a back injury of those three. Joseph is,
you know, a starter. He's a Pro Bowl player.
He's led the league in interceptions, you know,
from the safety position. So he's going to be
the biggest miss there. I think Roy Lopez will
be able to take some of Pat O 'Connor's snaps.
And Jacob Sailors has really only been performing
on kick returns and kick off coverage. And I
would like to think that Vahki is going to be
an upgrade over him in both those areas. Now
let's get to the meat on the bone a little bit
more. Taylor Decker is still dealing with that
shoulder. He's just going to play hurt. And good
news is that Miles Frazier, who I thought was
lost for the season, he was the fifth round pick
from Louisiana State. He can play guard and tackle.
His knee is rehabbing well, and he is on the
practice field. Whether that means we see him
this week or not is still to be determined. It's
good to see the clock running on him, right?
I mean, just want to see these guys get out there
and run around a little bit and see that they're
on their way back. Exactly. And then another
guy that we haven't seen this year that could
definitely help the defense is Joshua Pascal.
His back is healing nicely and he is practicing.
Craig Reynolds is back from that hamstring injury.
So come on, Craig. He can... He can take a little
bit of that. I mean, it is a Friday today, so
we have to say... Why not? Why not? Pay the homage.
Yeah, we got to get a little... Come on, Greg.
So he's back. Malcolm Rodriguez is back. He's
still battling a knee injury. All right, then
let's go a little bit deeper. Panay Sewell battling
a shoulder injury. Dan Skipper is battling a
back. Grant Stewart is battling a foot injury.
Tarian Arnold is battling a shoulder injury.
Ty Summers, a backup linebacker, has an injured
hand. and Daniel Thomas Backup Safety has a forum.
That is the biggest injury list I've seen since
we started this pod. Maybe we should just be
doing healthy lists. I feel like injury lists
are just so long. You wanna call the guys out
there healthy, there's like four. At any rate,
good coverage there. Thanks for that list. You
did a little more than meat on the bone. You
got down into the marrow a little bit there on
a few guys. What about the commanders? I know
Daniels will be out. He's gonna be out. for a
while. It sounds like Terry McLoran's gonna be
out for this one. Unfortunately, he's on both
my fantasy teams and I have not got much use
out of him this season. When he has been in there,
he's been good, but when he, he just doesn't
seem to stay healthy, especially this year. Any
other thoughts on the commanders besides those
two? Those are the main ones. Normally I would
say this is a crazy list for the commanders as
well, but the Lions just pales in comparison.
Yeah, I just had my jaw on the floor. Hopefully
we get better news today. Doing this pod Friday.
So happy Friday everybody Trey Amos cornerback
is dealing with a hip injury a jacory Kroski
merit their rookie running back has a tooth injury.
A tooth injury? But he's been a full participant,
but he's still listed. Is it a cavity? Do we
have the first ever running back missing a game
for a cavity? I don't know if he... I know that
we're supposed to see more of Chris Rodriguez,
which did spend a spell on my fantasy squad this
year. He is now gone, but he may get a look here,
and he's got a little bit of skill, but I don't.
I mean... You're running behind Laramie Gas Mask
Tunsel. I have no idea how that's going to work
out. Hold on. He's also on this list. He's dealing
with a hamstring. Oh, no. So they've lost him
to goodness. Well, I think he's going to play.
Yeah, he'll probably play, but he's ding. This
is kind of an insider one for you. Eddie Goldman's
their nose tackle. He was a full participant,
but he was limited earlier in the week, and he's
dealing with a concussion. He's kind of the bedrock
of their defensive line and what allows the commanders
to either stop the run or be run upon. It's concussion,
so he has to go through protocol. Chet, if he
doesn't clear protocol, clear advantage to the
Lions offense. And I think we see Monte and Gibbs
go crazy. They still have the Chase Youngs. They
still have a few guys that can cause some issues,
but they are not quite the pass rush we faced.
over the past couple weeks, at least in my estimation.
They will not blitz nearly as much as the Minnesota
Vikings and Brian Flores did. All right. Continuing
Quan Martin safety hamstring. Scary Terry's still
dealing with his quad. Gerson Newton, another
defensive tackle that occupies space and is tough
for let's say a Graham Glasgow to move out of
the way is dealing with an ankle injury. Okay.
Tyler Owens safety hamstring. Laramie Tunsel,
the gas mask himself. He's an offensive tackle.
He's dealing with a hamstring. Bobby Wagner,
their middle linebacker, is dealing with a broken
thumb and will probably have a cast on that.
And he is the quarterback of their defense. And
then the last guy - He caused havoc for us last
year in the playoffs. The divisional game. He
would have gotten a gimmick watching a 40 year
- is he like 40 or something? He's so old. The
guy has been in the league forever. Okay. And
then the last one is not their starting tight
end. He's kind of the commander's Brock Wright.
Colson Yankoff, easily my favorite name. On the
commanders Colson. That's a gem. That's a gem.
Yeah, that would be a Jersey. If I, you know,
were a commander's fan, I'd probably have to
get a yank off. Hey, yank off. Hey, yank off.
Get in there. He's dealing with he's dealing
with a hammy. The bad news for the Lions is that
if I go down the list for full participation
to these guys are practicing the ones that didn't
were Daniels and McLaurin. So and then Tyler
Owens had a limited and then Yankov's a little
bit limited. Kwon Martin's limited, but everybody
else is full participation. Do you... Okay, so
both teams dinged up. The last year after the
playoff, a lot of the Washington fans, it's been
kind of... Well documented, the Lions were making
some hay about their injury issues and now, you
know, they lost that playoff game due to injuries
and all the injuries we had to deal with and
a lot of the Washington fans were like, boohoo,
you got to play with injuries as part of the
NFL. Well, guess what, guys, you get to deal
with that now this season and you see what it's
like to lose half your team. But injuries are
no injuries. You got to play the games every
weekend. We've covered the injuries. Do we have
some thoughts on the trade deadline, Bill? Where
do you stand on this whole thing? don't think
Brad Holmes did enough. And here is my only point,
is that Brad Holmes has been very aggressive
in moving up the draft. And right now the plan
is working. The Lions draft, they develop and
they sign guys for low market deals. They're
avoiding free agency. Two years in a row, what
were their big free agent signings? DJ Reed and
Roy Lopez. And then they made a trade for Carlton
Davis with the Buccaneers. Outside of that they
really don't have to fray into the free agent
waters Which is a great way to run an NFL franchise
and a great way to run your business However,
if there is a chink in Brad Holmes armor and
you know I'm not gonna go too crazy on him because
I think the world of him but that he does trade
up for players that seem to be luxuries at times
and I'm gonna bring up our guy Isaac Tesla or
coleslaw And talk about the fact that we gave
up three third round picks to move up to get
him. We did get some picks in return, but the
fact is one of those third round picks could
have gone to Miami. for Jalen Phillips, who I
think, I don't know for sure, but the opportunity
for Jalen Phillips to come off the edge on third
down and help this team win is more likely than
Tesla. There's not enough balls on the offense
right now. Gibbs isn't getting what he needs.
Montgomery's not getting what he needs. St. Brown's
getting his and so is Laporta. But, you know,
we heard last week, you know, we need to get
Jamo involved in the offense. And then we heard
this week, we need to get Tesla involved in the
offense. There's not enough balls to go around
and I guess my icing on this - There isn't enough
time in the pocket. Yeah, to get to that third
read. My icing on this complaint cake would be
- Why would you draft Tesla knowing that you
were going to extend JMo? And so it seems like
it's an embarrassment of riches. And I'm also
frustrated that if Tesla really is the second
coming or someone that's going to be someone
we should get excited about, Caliph Raymond should
not be keeping him off the field. Yeah. Yeah.
And I actually don't think Caliph Raymond should
be keeping him off the field, period, right now.
But he is. But he is. So it's hard to determine
what it is they're looking at. I just don't know
how they're evaluating the situation and, you
know, we seem to be plagued with front offices
in our two big sports in Detroit between baseball
and football that do not want to make moves of
late. I do not know why. Maybe it's coincidental.
I'm sure it is, but We just don't seem to have
the ability to go out there and gamble on some
trades or gamble on some free agents or gamble
on talent period. We're signing our own guys.
You can't say the Lions aren't spending money.
They're putting a lot of money into their own
guys. So it's not a cheap thing. With the Lions,
it seems a little more like they're afraid to
upset the apple cart a little or deviate from
their path. slightly... Two schools of thought
here. One, it's not that Martha Firestone Ford's
being cheap. There's close to a billion dollars
in extensions. So the Lions are not the Cincinnati
Bengals. They are not. No. The Cleveland Browns
that just mismanage everything. What they are,
though, these are my two thoughts, and I hope
one of these is wrong. The one I hope is incorrect
is that, hey, we've got a waiting list for the
first time in franchise history. We've raised
ticket prices. We're the hottest ticket in town,
and we're pretty much in the mix to make the
playoffs, and should be for quite some time.
If that is what's coming down from Sheila and
Rod Wood to Brad Holmes and company, because
you know Dan Campbell doesn't think that way,
you know Chris Spielman doesn't think that way,
but if that's Brad Holmes' operating MO, then
we've got an issue. Otherwise, I think what really
could be happening is that Brad Holmes was a
scout by trade. He was never a GM before this.
He worked under less need the legendary GM for
the Rams. And I don't know that Holmes he trusts
himself so much in the draft process and the
evaluation and development process that he may
not pull every lever out there. And the other
thing is, I don't know, maybe Jalen Phillips
is a bad locker room guy. You know, there's some
other things we don't know. Philadelphia's always
willing to take those risks. I mean, look at
all the Georgia guys that had, you know, homicides
and speeding tickets and all that. Philly does
not care about the locker room whatsoever. I
mean, A .J. Brown throws a tantrum every other
week if he doesn't get his, you know, 10 looks.
So I think Howie Roseman, you know, is probably
who we're comparing Brad Holmes to. It's just...
he probably is a little more risk adverse on
that. And the fact that maybe he thinks getting
Pascal back, and I cringe to say this, but Marcus
Davenport should be back at some point, I'll
believe it when I see it, that maybe the reinforcements
are already there. Maybe the reinforcements are
better than what they could have got by giving
up anything at the trade deadline. And I'm willing
to buy into that a little. I tried it. I was
initially very disappointed we didn't make a
single deal. And then after I thought about it,
I was like, you know, I feel that there's got
to be a decent reason for it. I mean, they did
make a deal last year at the deadline. It wasn't
it didn't pan out to be something ground shaking
or earth shattering for the team or change the
trajectory of the team in the season. But it
provided an edge rush nowhere near what we had.
And it came at minimal cost. But this year, they
just didn't do a deal. And I think, as fans,
we look at, we want change, especially the timing
of it, right? Right after they lost to the Vikings
at home. The deadline hits two days later. So
we're all looking for change because we hated
what we saw last Sunday. And then the deadline
hits and nothing happens. It's like a thud. Yeah.
Number one, the only guys that moved that I would
have really wanted would have been Jalen Phillips
for a third or fourth round pick. And then Roger
McCreary, who the Rams picked up as a cornerback,
that's... pretty much washed up, but he was a
former second round pick. Those would be the
only two that I would say really moved the needle.
I mean, what the Colts gave up to get Sauce Gardner
is mind -blowing. There's no way Brad Holmes
would give up that kind of draft capital for
a guy that, so far this season, and it could
be just the Jets defense, but he's showing decline,
and Sauce has never been the biggest guy. I mean,
he's slightly framed. He's not a great tackler.
That's a lot of capital to invest in a... position
that I don't let's face it. You have to have
a quarterback first and foremost in the NFL.
You have to have an edge rusher second and then
you need protection for your quarterback. Hand
it to the Colts that they're going for it. Yeah,
hand it to them that they're going for it. They
see a real small window here. I'm sure they've
resurrected Daniel Jones. And so they're and
you know, I just don't know that the one D back
is going to get them there. The other thing is
we're not comparing apples to no oranges because
The Colts play in the most winnable division
in the NFL. When they have a soft schedule, right?
We have the toughest in the NFL right now. So
we're seeing that. We're five and three are the
toughest schedule in the NFL. And I told you
and I will tell anybody that I'm happy with the
five and three. I just wasn't happy. I didn't
have the Vikings loss at home on my bingo card.
So I think it's... 100%. It was a shock to the
system. It was a shock to the system. So did
I answer your free agent questions? No, you did.
I mean, the trade deadline happened. We didn't
do anything. I think everybody's just kind of
like, we're still willing to trust Brad Holmes.
It's rough to see that and the timing of it.
But if we'd won that Vikings game, we might have
said, maybe we don't need that much. Last year
was totally different. When Hutch went out, they
didn't. Davenport never emerged. So it was Josh
Paschal and... And that was it. Levi Onzerike
and Aleem McNeil generating a very meager pass
rush. They had to do something and Zedaria Smith,
I look at it more favorably than maybe some others,
you included, but it was out of much greater
necessity than what we have now. So let's take
a look at what's coming up in this game for a
spread. How do you feel? Vegas got us at seven
and a half right now. I saw eight and a half
in some lines. Where are you at on this game?
What do you feel here? It's an away game. We
get the commanders who I feel like we should
handle them, but I felt like we should handle
the Vikings. What are your thoughts here in the
spread? The line opened at three and a half.
And that's when they thought Daniels still might
play. It went to eight and a half, it settled
at seven and a half. Even the totals dropped
a point, so it's 49 and a half now. I would say
the Sharks and Sharps are begging you to take
the commanders. I think that's the smart money
in this play. You think they are, huh? Yeah.
And my initial reaction was 31 -14 Lions. Hedging
that in a big way. I'm gonna say something like
28 24 lions. I am gonna go 35 27 lions Okay,
I think we we we just either if it's seven and
a half We just covered if it's eight and a half.
We don't I think they over goes quite over I
have a feeling the defenses are gonna be struggling
here in this game now if we can get a pass rush
That all goes out the door and we'll know, we'll
know in the first couple drives how we're looking.
I get the feeling we're going to know how this
thing's going to go because lions don't come
out ready to, ready to rip somebody apart after
what happened last week. The fire just isn't
there and it's going to be, it'll be a close
one if that happens. Be a long afternoon. Who
are you taking for fantasy? Nobody on the Redskins
because You got nobody on the red skin. Look,
you just did it. I know. You just did what I
do. You just did what I do. All right. Nobody
in the commanders for you. You don't like any
of them. I mean, I guess Debo, if you had to
pick somebody would just maybe take Debo, maybe
dabble in some earths. We've struggled a little
with tight ends at times this year. I don't know.
Old man Hertz is getting there. And I can't figure
out if Rodriguez or the rookie is going to get
the bulk of the carries. Plus, with this four
game slide, the commanders are going through
their ability to run the ball yards per run is
just falling off the cliff. So I don't buy into
their run game at all unless they sneak up on
us. You know who I'm going to look at again?
And I keep pushing this guy for the Lions is
Laporta. Yeah, the commanders have not been good
against tight ends this year. They've given up
quite a few touchdowns and some decent yards
to some halfway decent tight ends so far. I jump
on maybe Laporta in this game. Hopefully they
decide to use him for longer than a drive this
time around. And I'm thinking possibly we see
a little St. Brown resurgence here. He's been
a little quiet. the last couple games, kind of
on and off, right? He's dropped his quota of
passes for the season. So I think he's going
to catch everything thrown his way. I know. And
then as far as running backs go, I think Monte
after that fumble, because that really was the
turning point in the Vikings game. I think he
comes on strong this game. So that meant Monte
fumble was rough. We were we had it and then
he fumbled and it all just sort of slid downhill.
OK, well, we've given you guys our thoughts.
on this upcoming game against the Commanders
in Washington DC. Enjoy the afternoon game on
Sunday. We'll be back for a recap shortly after.
Go Lions!