This is the Litterbox, a Detroit Lions podcast
with your hosts, Chet West and Bill Patterson.
Lions Litterbox listeners, welcome back to the
Litterbox, a Detroit Lions podcast with your
hosts, Chet West and Billy P from the D Patterson.
We had an interesting game there against Cleveland,
took care of business. What I would say fairly
easily wasn't the cleanest game, and I think
Dan Campbell would agree with us. Offense at
times sputtered, defense at times looked beatable,
but Browns were just no match in the end, really.
Bill, any thoughts on last weekend's game? Yeah,
the final score probably wasn't as indicative.
You know, 34 to 10 is like the actual game was.
That being out there in the ether. What I would
say is the Browns defense is legit. Their front
four is as good as you're going to see in the
NFL. They drafted with the first pick in the
second round, a guy named Carson Swessinger,
who I'm seeing at the Jim Caldwell quarter poll
of the NFL season, in which our Honolulu Blue
Warriors and Silver Warriors are three and one
atop the NFC Norris division. Going back to my
point, Carson Swessinger is a great linebacker
who could be defensive rookie of the year through
the quarter pole and their cornerbacks, whether
it's in a nickel or a straight four or a dime,
play really well. So the Lions had tough sledding
on it, but again, the offensive line wore him
down. And I am convinced that Panay Sewell is
the best offensive lineman in the NFL. I'm pretty
sure he is at this point. And our PFF grades
are going to give you here in a little bit. I'll
prove that out too. I think it's one of these
things where you got the best defense in the
NFL coming into the game. Not sure where exactly
the Browns are ranked now after we tore them
apart, but best defense in the NFL coming into
the game. And they may have been the reason why
our offense just didn't look to be operating
at top. Level at times in this game. You're gonna
run into that I mean a great offense can make
a great defense look bad a Great defense can
make a great offense look bad at times. So I'm
chalking it up to that I have no we can go through
the PFF grades and I can show you that everything's
down a little bit for the offense So maybe that's
maybe that's telling maybe that's a piece of
it. It's kind of like baseball You know good
pitching can make a good offense look bad good
hitters look bad I go with it. I kind of went
with it on that. It seemed like a little bit
of a struggle of a game at times. We talked about
the Lions offense eventually wearing down the
Browns defense and how good the Browns defense
is. Let's talk about the other two phases of
the game, because that's really the keys to what
happened in the outcome of this fight away. So.
One, you know, since I'm Billy Special Teams,
I absolutely had to love... You and your special
teams. Kaleef Raymond had a huge punt return
for a touchdown that was absolutely awesome.
Every listener of our sister pod, the Detroit
Tigers litter box, knows my favorite play in
baseball is a triple. My favorite play in football
is a punt return for a touchdown. Really? That's
interesting. I did not know that. Love it. Love
it. Love... fab fabulous information. So I love,
I love something too. And then the Jake Jack
brothers were fantastic and Fox and Bates Bates
hit monster field goals and Fox. Every punt was
inside the 20 pinning the Browns and deep in
their area, their own, you know, zone. And then
let's talk about the Browns offense. This is
really where the Lions emerged victorious, despite
the fact that now in four straight games, our
Honolulu blue and silver warriors have given
up an opening drive touchdown. So if Dan Campbell.
picks to receive the kick to start the game one
more time, I'm going to be really upset because
they go three and out, allow a touchdown, and
I'm already miserable midway through the first
quarter. Almost like it's scripted at that point.
It really is such an oddity because I think the
Browns had some absolute record of futility this
year in the first quarter, like hadn't scored
any first quarter points or something crazy.
And here they go. They score on the very first
drive of the game, which is what the Lions just
seem to do. The announcer, I think it was Jonathan
Villamil, was like, get there slow starters this
season. I was like, okay, you think so? I wasn't
going to bring him up, but since you did, if
they don't fire him immediately, he is the worst.
I'm fine with him. I think I'm fine with him.
Oh my God. Go to bed. I know you don't like him.
I know. Chet, he made so many mistakes. He talks
about, he does no research. Like, nobody knows.
What team did he win a Super Bowl with? Do you
know? Was it the Saints? Okay, good for you.
So, like, but I bet most don't know that. Yeah,
he's the worst. Anyway, Marv Albert's kid isn't
much better. So, I just picture him, like, walking
in. Marv Albert's kid. That's who Kenny Albert
is. It's Marv Albert's kid. I know. He's got
a name. He's got a name. Kenny Albert. His dad
likes wearing women's undergarments and that's
his pops. So, anyway, offense. The Browns, terrible.
They've got a few pieces to build off and a couple
rookies, a rookie tight end. Out of Bowling Green,
number 44, I think is Harold Fanning. And then
they've got Quincyne Junkins. He had some drops
too. Bowling Green guy. Yeah. So, yeah, your
fellow Mack brethren. But Joe Flacco's best days
are long past. He has a statue. I think his career
is over. He is. He has a statue back there. And
Aiden Hutchinson feasted on him today. The Lions
were so confident that they started opposite
Hutch at the other edge position drum roll for
Pat O 'Connor. That's second week in a row O
'Connor started. Which is, I can't believe that
you start him two weeks in a row and get two
wins. I don't know. All right. Let's dive into
your PFF grades and then we'll preview the Cincinnati
Bengals. Sounds wonderful. All right. So I gave
you a little hint earlier already as it is, but
Penesul sits atop the Lions offensive grades
with an 81 .9 this week. So that's the highest
we capped out in the week. He had an 86 .9 run
block and a 68 .2 pass block. for this week's
effort. I believe he was going up against Miles
Garrett for a good portion of the game. Is that
correct? That is correct. Or was Garrett on the
other end? I couldn't remember. They mixed him.
They mixed him back and forth. But I know he
was going up against Garrett for a good bulk
of the game. I think he played close to 40 snaps
against Garrett. Yeah. So that grade. That sounds
about right. You can probably add 10 to 12 points
to that grade, given that he was going up against,
in my mind, and this is no disrespect to R97.
No, no. Giles Garrett is the best edge rusher
in professional football. I'm not going to debate
that with you. He's definitely up there. Number
two is Amon Ross St. Brown. Mon, 70 .2 this week.
Passing game grade was a 69 .7. So not what we
saw previous week from Mon Ra, but still up there
at a 70. And then third was Graham Glasgow at
a 70. You had Jared Goff at a 66 .8. And then
Laporta rounded out the top of the group with
a 62 .9. So just one thought from me. Great the
Graham Glasgow who was so guilty week one in
Green Bay at Lambeau You know just not having
great communication not having great snaps being
victimized by having essentially a second -year
player But two rookies on either side of him
and both guard spots and he has really Rided
the ship and I am really really happy that he
is a Detroit lion And I think thus far, if I
had to give a game ball on the offense, I think
he's getting it, even though Sewell's the best
player on the offense. He had a good game run
blocking this time. It was kind of odd, like
he did good run blocking, but his pass blocking
grade was down a little bit at 54. But either
way, a 70, that's all I really expect from Graham
Glasgow. How about you give me the bottom two
or three on offense, and let's move over to the
defense. Christian mahogany comes in at the very
bottom on offense. He had a 39 .4 overall He
had a 56 pass block and a forty four point two
run block that Sort of shocked me cuz I don't
remember him being that bad But what shocks me
even more is Taylor Decker second to last with
a forty point four Yeah, because Garrett was
kept lighting up over that. Yeah, so There you
go again with, you know, the great player makes
the other great player sometimes look bad. Pass
block for Taylor Decker was 25 .9. That is atrocious,
Taylor. I don't know what was going on out there.
Well, he's got, he still has a bum shoulder.
He's not practicing and he went up against, I
mean, we've stated that. So yeah. Yeah. So Montgomery
and then Ratledge were the bottom four, even
though I thought Tate Ratledge had a better game
than the guy I want to call out. that should
have been last on this is Jameson Williams. He
was targeted eight times and he had two catches
and he looked lost. J Mo running the wrong routes.
He was terrible. And now I understand like all
summer and off season. I was real confused chat
like Johnny Mo, you know, Johnny Morton. Trust
me to run more of the route tree. You know, he's
introducing it and I'm like, okay, you've been
a professional receiver now for this is his third
season, right? Yeah. And you played three seasons
at Alabama, which is basically like playing for
a pro program, pro team. Yeah. I'm saying that
they have route trees. It's not like he was in
a wishbone, you know, wing tee offense. I mean,
he was running a pro style offense. He must be
the dumbest person on that roster. Well, David
Montgomery only got 20 snaps and got a 44 .6.
And he did not have a great game, although he
did pass block quite well. Got a great grade
for that. Jameson Williams had a 47 overall,
which is terrible for a guy that you just gave
millions to over the next couple of years. There
seem to be games where he just disappears. Not
only just disappears, he just plays poorly. If
he just disappeared, it might be okay. At any
rate, yeah, we'll move on from there. Those are
your offensive grades. Let me grab you some defensive
grades. Things get somewhat interesting here.
Alright, so at the top of the defense is our
guy, Aiden Hutchinson. 92 .6. His pass rush grade
was a 94 .2. Jack Campbell came in at number
two. I think deservedly he seemed to be all over
the field this week. Kind of like we had Derek
Barnes last week was all over the field and got
a fairly high grade. This week it was Jack Campbell.
who was all over the field and got a high grade.
He had an 89 .3 overall, and his run defense
score was up there with an 81 .7, tackling an
82. And number three, this one shocked me, Bill,
because we didn't hear his name nearly as much
this week as we did last week. But Al -Qadim
Mohammed was the number three guy with an 86
.2 overall. But for him, he must have been doing
a lot in there that we didn't really realize.
His pass rush grade was an 82 .9, which is pretty
darn good. He only got 25 snaps this week. So
they didn't utilize him quite as much as the
previous. He was banged up. Yeah, I think he
must have been. And then Nowaski and DJ Reed,
unfortunately DJ Reed with the injury, rounded
it out at the top five there. All right. The
bottom. Give us the bottom. Tyleek Williams.
Tyleek had a 49. So he had a rough go, although
his pass rush grade was a 60 .9. So he improved
there. It was his run defense where he struggled.
It's down in the f***ies. And then you had Terry
and Arnold, was the second worst. He had a 58
.7. His run defense and his tackling grades have
always been kind of up there a little bit. He
does pretty well on that, but his coverage grade
was a 50. And I don't know if he's going to get
it. What are your thoughts along those lines?
Well, I do have thoughts on Terry and Arnold.
It's the same thing as my thoughts on Jameson
Williams is what's going on there with both those
guys because those are two guys that the Lions
have invested heavily in that we are not seeing
first round production out of whatsoever. And
I think it's a testament probably to how good
Nick Saban was and how good his assistant coaches
were. Quite possible. And no slight to MCDC.
I just think the magnifying glass is on it. And
so the Lions are 10 or 10 and a half point favorites
this week against the Cincinnati Bengals at Paycore
Stadium. Joe Burrow is not playing. He is out
long term. I still think this is going to be
a close game. Let's talk about the Cincinnati
Bengals. Okay. The Lions are 10 or 10 or 10 and
a half point favorites, depending which line
you see, as the visiting team at Paycore Stadium.
Joe Burrow is out, but so is DJ Reid. Yeah. And
clearly, as we just talked about, we're concerned
about Terian Arnold. Injury or no injury, he
has not played well to start this season. If
you're going to bet on this game, hammer the
Bengals. Higgins and Chase are going to have
themselves a field day. If you have either of
them fantasy, take them. I do think the saving
grace is that the Lions front four will be able
to rush Jake Browning. I don't think the Bengals
will have a real strong run game, but I do think
the Lions for the fifth straight game will give
up an opening drive touchdown. And I think it'll
be one of those two receivers that does it. What
are your thoughts on what I just shared? Well,
I'm going to tell you one thing that the Bengals
have going against them. They have a bad quarterback.
Okay. Right now in Browning, but they have a
worse offensive line. Their offensive line is
absolutely atrocious. Our defensive line, like
you're saying the Bengals receivers should tee
off on us. And I don't doubt that they probably
will get their chances because I think they're
going to be throwing a lot. Our D line. should
have a field day on Browning. I mean, this could
look like Flacco part two in a lot of ways, and
maybe better. Their interior line, their guards
and tackles, their guards especially, are absolutely
awful. Ted Karras is their center. He's about
the only redeeming quality they have on their
team. I watched some of the video from last week's
Gaming Against the Broncos. It was not a pretty
deal. And what it does make you wonder is how
much is Joe Burrow covering for? A lot. I think
he's in and out. He is the most valuable player
on his team for any team in the league. I think
he covers up every wart that they have on that
offense. I think you're dead right on that. I
do not think that this Bengals team is going
to be able to keep our defensive pass or our
pass rushing check. And Chase Brown's a dangerous
halfback. He's good. He's good. So if they can
block for him, which They don't, they don't have
great run block grades at all and haven't blocked
for him that well. He makes a lot on his own
though. So yeah, you're right. I mean, Higgins
and Higgins and Chase should have a day and they're
going to get a lot of chances. They're going
to be throwing the box. I think we're going to
get up on them. I don't think their defense is
very good at all either. No, it's secondary problem
for them. I mean, they've got Hendrickson and
a bunch of other dudes. Yeah, they got Hendrickson.
a whole bunch of other awful players starting.
I mean, their middle linebackers are bad. We
could have a field day running in this game.
We're going to. So can I do the human interest
story? Yeah. Give us a human interest story.
The Tom Rinaldi human interest story on the sidelines.
I love this. I love this. So give it to us. It's
Knuckles homecoming, David Montgomery. He is
from the Cincinnati area, was not recruited heavily
except by Iowa State, went there drafted by the
Bears. and signed with Alliance as a free agent.
There was a tragic and unfortunate accident involving
his sister where she was paralyzed I believe
from like the shoulders down and she has not
been able to see him play because she lacks the
ability to travel distances and he has yet to
play in his professional career in his hometown
of Cincinnati. That will happen at 325 Central
Standard Time this Sunday. He is gonna go off.
So I echo everything you said I I think he's
gonna get between he's gonna get two touchdowns
I just don't know how many more he's gonna get
them that and I also see Sonic almost having
the week off if you would in terms of I think
they're gonna let Montgomery have the start and
I think they're gonna give him the lion's shares
of the carries so if there's a fantasy guy in
the backfield to play and I would never sit Sonic,
but I'm just saying I think the picture click
For this one, the picture click might be Monty.
And then at this point, if you have St. Brown
on your roster and aren't starting him or having
him be a feature, you're... I don't know why
you wouldn't. He's Jerry Rice reincarnated. And
then Sam Laporte would be my other one outside
of that. I wouldn't touch JMO until this gets
straightened out. And you've been to this stadium
before, so you know what the Bengal football
atmosphere is like over there. I actually have
a good buddy of mine here in town. His cousin
is Zach Taylor. Oh, that's cool. The head coach.
Yeah. Except he's under a little bit of fire
right now. Things are not good in Cincinnati
right now. Things are rough. I mean, they have
a disproportion. They're the Cowboys of Ohio
because they have four players. Jamar chase T
Higgins, Joe burrow and Trey Hendrickson making
a disproportionate amount of their salary. So
when they hit on draft picks, they resemble a
playoff team or as far as Joe burrow can carry
them when one of the four or two of the four
aren't playing, which has happened the years
they don't make the playoffs. That's kind of
the story, but yeah, it's a turf grass field.
It's along the river. You can walk over all these
pedestrian bridges pretty much. whether you stay
on the Kentucky side or on the Ohio side, it's
easily walkable. The fans couldn't be nicer.
Everybody tailgates along the river. And so there's
beer vendors, food vendors. They do a good job.
I, I, you know, I would say as far as visiting
NFL stadiums, I'd probably give it like a 8 .5
or a nine. I mean, like no real weakness. Yeah.
So what, and you like Laporta too. Cause I want
to know, am I playing Laporta this week? Play
La Porta. He's had some middling weeks. We'll
just put it that way. Better last week probably
than previously, but I would play La Porta, I
think. And I wouldn't be surprised if Sonic has
more yards than Montgomery, but Montgomery is
going to get all the goal line looks. Yeah, so
I think you're right on that. You're going to
get Montgomery a Tuddy or two. And then one last
week. So and the game ball is going to go to
his sister if the Lions pulled us out. So I get
a story. So I'm going to do prediction time.
I agree with you on the defense. I'm going to
say 38 to 13 Lions. I do think they're going
to give up some yards. I'm worried just now that
DJ reads out. Uh, and I'll go through the injury
report real quick for you. Kahlil Dorsey's on
it. And so is Terry on Arnold. So is Kirby Joseph.
So you've got three stalwarts in that backend.
I agree with you. The Lions are going to put
pressure on Jake Browning. Who's not a good quarterback.
I still think if Terry on Arnold doesn't play
better than he has through the quarter poll this
year and if Dorsey. And Joseph are, you know,
a little banged up. No read. It puts our secondary
as the one weak spot on the field for your Detroit
Lions. And I want to talk about, you know, we've
talked a little about JMo. We've talked, you
know, somewhat about Arnold here. Do you think
Arnold, with him, it seems all or nothing. He
just doesn't have the ball skills. Like he goes
up, he either, it's either a flag because he
mugs the guy or he just completely blows the
coverage and the guy's off on his own somewhere.
I never see him just play a guy. In good man
-to -man coverage. I just don't think he's a
lockdown corner or ever will be no and the problem
is there were other players, we'll do it a different
episode because we're up against the clock that
were taken in that draft that are played much
better than he has. So why don't we do that a
follow up? Let's see how he does this week. We're
going to give him the benefit of the doubt. See
if he brings it around. But the two guys I'm
concerned about right now are he and Jamo for.
Because so much Jamo because we paid him so much
money. He's out there dropping footballs that
he should or running the wrong route or really
quick route. What's your prediction? I'm going
to go 42 14 lions. I'll take these real close
to yours. I just don't see field goals in this
one. I think it's going to be all Tuddy's here.
And I think I'm actually given probably giving
the Bengals a touchdown more than they're going
to get. I don't see this being a pretty day at
all. I see even maybe a defensive touchdown or
two for us. This thing could get ugly. And I
don't think things in Cincinnati are going to
look pretty when it's all said and done, but
it's the NFL any given Sunday. Who knows? Maybe
we struggle with a team we have no business in
the world struggling with. I don't know. I don't
know. But yeah, that's about what I've got on
that one. Anything else from you? Go Lions. Go
Lions.