WEBVTT 00:00:02.729 --> 00:00:06.349 Welcome to the Streamlined Podcaster, a podcast 00:00:06.349 --> 00:00:08.789 that shows you how to put the right systems in 00:00:08.789 --> 00:00:12.269 place so you can stop spinning your wheels, focus 00:00:12.269 --> 00:00:15.130 on making great content and see your show grow. 00:00:15.750 --> 00:00:17.850 Because there's nothing worse than putting a 00:00:17.850 --> 00:00:20.750 ton of effort into your show to see very few 00:00:20.750 --> 00:00:24.530 benefits and even fewer downloads. My name is 00:00:24.530 --> 00:00:27.109 Joe Casabona and I know you're strapped for time. 00:00:27.390 --> 00:00:31.719 So let's get into it. I have been thinking a 00:00:31.719 --> 00:00:37.759 lot about podcast formats lately. You know, for 00:00:37.759 --> 00:00:42.280 a long time it was, oh, it's always host, co 00:00:42.280 --> 00:00:46.079 -host or it's interviews. Most people who come 00:00:46.079 --> 00:00:51.600 to me want to start an interview podcast. There 00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:53.899 is a number of people or there are a number of 00:00:53.899 --> 00:00:59.079 people who consider starting a solo show. I do 00:00:59.079 --> 00:01:03.359 a mix of both. This show is all solo episodes. 00:01:03.719 --> 00:01:05.900 Take note of that, people who are going to eventually 00:01:05.900 --> 00:01:12.040 pitch me to be on this show. But my other show, 00:01:12.980 --> 00:01:16.180 The Streamline Solopreneur, is a mix of solo 00:01:16.180 --> 00:01:20.400 episodes, interviews. And so I've been thinking 00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:23.480 a lot about podcast format lately because podcasting 00:01:23.480 --> 00:01:28.790 is changing fundamentally, unavoidably. We've 00:01:28.790 --> 00:01:33.010 seen it in the news with like Wondery downsizing 00:01:33.010 --> 00:01:37.750 or shutting down and other story driven podcasts, 00:01:37.750 --> 00:01:42.730 right? Like these highly produced fictional podcasts 00:01:42.730 --> 00:01:46.790 that are shutting down. Serial, which is one 00:01:46.790 --> 00:01:54.310 of the podcasts that has really catapulted podcasting 00:01:54.310 --> 00:01:57.090 like into the first wave of the mainstream, I 00:01:57.090 --> 00:02:01.670 would say. is, you know, publishes like fewer 00:02:01.670 --> 00:02:04.950 episodes further between since they've been acquired 00:02:04.950 --> 00:02:07.510 by the New York Times. The New York Times still 00:02:07.510 --> 00:02:09.750 puts out a bunch of podcasts, but they are news 00:02:09.750 --> 00:02:13.689 based podcasts. And so. I've been trying to think 00:02:13.689 --> 00:02:21.610 about. In an age where our tools, AI take a shot, 00:02:21.610 --> 00:02:26.729 you know, the AI in 2025 drinking game. Our tools. 00:02:28.060 --> 00:02:32.159 have enabled us more than ever to be able to 00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:41.419 focus on creating really good content. But there 00:02:41.419 --> 00:02:44.979 is, and I should say I'm not qualified to talk 00:02:44.979 --> 00:02:47.520 about this. I've never done an audio drama. I 00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:50.599 have talked to very few people who have done 00:02:50.599 --> 00:02:56.000 an audio drama, but is the audio drama format 00:02:56.819 --> 00:03:01.780 the right one for a podcast. Audiobooks are a 00:03:01.780 --> 00:03:04.099 thing. In fact, Spotify is like doubling down 00:03:04.099 --> 00:03:06.500 on audiobooks, right? They just added a new tier 00:03:06.500 --> 00:03:11.280 where you can buy more hours for audiobooks. 00:03:11.560 --> 00:03:13.699 I can't imagine that they would have done that 00:03:13.699 --> 00:03:20.199 if the first introduction of audiobooks to their 00:03:20.199 --> 00:03:25.919 audience was failing. So is it like, you know, 00:03:26.080 --> 00:03:30.259 Our audio drama is like a short run podcast, 00:03:30.340 --> 00:03:32.479 which is perfectly fine, right? Like TV shows 00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:37.860 don't go on forever. So, like, do podcasts have 00:03:37.860 --> 00:03:41.340 to go on forever? I would say no. I think that 00:03:41.340 --> 00:03:43.960 people think it's like you got to do it weekly, 00:03:43.979 --> 00:03:45.439 you got to show up, but you don't necessarily 00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:48.639 have to. You do a 10 episode audio drama and 00:03:48.639 --> 00:03:52.280 you've told a story for a fixed budget. And great. 00:03:52.560 --> 00:03:58.689 Good job. That's evergreen content. But I also 00:03:58.689 --> 00:04:01.189 think that, like, most people, if you're listening 00:04:01.189 --> 00:04:03.009 to this, you're probably thinking, oh, I have 00:04:03.009 --> 00:04:06.030 an interview podcast. That seems like the easiest 00:04:06.030 --> 00:04:09.430 type of content to create, right? Which it's 00:04:09.430 --> 00:04:13.349 not. Sorry to break it to you. There's a lot 00:04:13.349 --> 00:04:17.649 of work that goes into doing a good interview. 00:04:17.850 --> 00:04:23.149 A good interview. In a previous episode, I talked 00:04:23.149 --> 00:04:26.050 about, like, don't make your guest provide questions 00:04:26.050 --> 00:04:32.870 to you. That is your job as the host. But, like, 00:04:32.930 --> 00:04:37.129 similarly, do research, right? Don't just, like, 00:04:37.350 --> 00:04:39.370 don't just say we're going to have a casual conversation. 00:04:39.990 --> 00:04:42.509 Control the story, right? I have a document with 00:04:42.509 --> 00:04:45.389 all of my interviews and I go over it with my 00:04:45.389 --> 00:04:48.699 guests before we record and... We don't strictly 00:04:48.699 --> 00:04:51.360 stick to the script, try saying that ten times 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:57.920 fast, but we do have a thread that we try to 00:04:57.920 --> 00:05:03.139 pull on and get back to. And I have been a little 00:05:03.139 --> 00:05:06.579 more heavy -handed in my edits lately to trim 00:05:06.579 --> 00:05:09.540 out some of the extra stuff, especially when 00:05:09.540 --> 00:05:12.800 I interview friends and we kind of go off tangent. 00:05:12.819 --> 00:05:14.439 I used to keep those in, I used to call them 00:05:14.439 --> 00:05:19.019 side quests, but I have to evolve, right? You 00:05:19.019 --> 00:05:23.699 know, I always think about the movie The Grand 00:05:23.699 --> 00:05:27.959 Hotel. Came out in like 1932. It's like, I think 00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:29.959 it's like Universal Pictures, like first great 00:05:29.959 --> 00:05:33.600 film. It's just people talking in a hotel, as 00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:36.199 far as I'm like, I'm not like a cinephile. I 00:05:36.199 --> 00:05:38.800 like movies, but I'm not, you know, I'm sorry 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:42.120 if I'm like offending you by saying that. But 00:05:42.120 --> 00:05:47.120 my point is like, A good movie in 1932 was basically 00:05:47.120 --> 00:05:51.800 just like synchronized video and audio. That 00:05:51.800 --> 00:05:57.420 movie is boring today. Mediums evolve. And so 00:05:57.420 --> 00:06:01.360 like, back when I first started podcasting, the 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:05.240 fact that I had a decent conversation with great 00:06:05.240 --> 00:06:10.860 audio was all I needed to do because most podcasts 00:06:10.860 --> 00:06:16.399 sounded terrible. or we're meandering, or like 00:06:16.399 --> 00:06:20.139 we're about Apple. I feel like most podcasts 00:06:20.139 --> 00:06:25.160 were about Apple. And so like, you know, we need 00:06:25.160 --> 00:06:30.019 to evolve. And so what is like, what does a good 00:06:30.019 --> 00:06:33.500 podcast look like in 2025? I think if you're 00:06:33.500 --> 00:06:35.879 going to do a good interview, that could be good, 00:06:35.879 --> 00:06:40.399 right? But I'm starting to wonder if like the 00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:47.220 host, co -host format the best format. And I 00:06:47.220 --> 00:06:51.060 think it's because of the banter. It's easier 00:06:51.060 --> 00:06:55.519 to form a relationship, even if it's a parasocial 00:06:55.519 --> 00:07:01.319 relationship, with a host when they're doing 00:07:01.319 --> 00:07:03.100 more than just what I'm doing right now, which 00:07:03.100 --> 00:07:05.720 is talk at you, right? Because I'm not doing 00:07:05.720 --> 00:07:07.860 like an audio vlog. I'm not telling you about 00:07:07.860 --> 00:07:14.000 my day. I'm trying to stay focused on the topic. 00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:19.259 Which is, is host -co -host the best format? 00:07:21.639 --> 00:07:24.180 And so it's maybe harder for you to form a bond 00:07:24.180 --> 00:07:27.120 with me. Let me know. I mean, right at streamlinedfeedback 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:28.980 .com and be like, no, you're wrong about that. 00:07:29.079 --> 00:07:32.839 I'm happy to hear that. But with a host -co -host 00:07:32.839 --> 00:07:36.500 format, there's more opportunity to get personal, 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:41.339 to do... side quests, quote unquote, without 00:07:41.339 --> 00:07:44.160 it seeming distracting because it is part of 00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:48.180 the lore of the show. And I have a few examples 00:07:48.180 --> 00:07:50.779 here, right? You know, there's a show I really 00:07:50.779 --> 00:07:53.959 like called Upgrade. It's with Jason Snell and 00:07:53.959 --> 00:07:57.100 Mike Hurley. It's from Relay. Relay .fm is the 00:07:57.100 --> 00:08:01.519 website. And they have banter, but they stay 00:08:01.519 --> 00:08:06.139 generally focused. Mike is on another show, which 00:08:06.139 --> 00:08:09.579 is I should say that upgrade is technology, mostly 00:08:09.579 --> 00:08:14.540 Apple News. Connected, Mike is also on, also 00:08:14.540 --> 00:08:18.740 primarily tech slash Apple News. And he is on 00:08:18.740 --> 00:08:22.939 it with Federico Vettici and Stephen Hackett. 00:08:23.939 --> 00:08:27.420 And they are less focused. There's a lot of they 00:08:27.420 --> 00:08:29.540 say there's a lot of japs, right? There's a lot 00:08:29.540 --> 00:08:34.600 of tomfoolery and horsing around. But that's 00:08:34.600 --> 00:08:37.100 like part of the lore of the show. You listen 00:08:37.100 --> 00:08:42.179 for that because they are all experts in this 00:08:42.179 --> 00:08:48.240 field, but it's fun. It's a fun version of what 00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:49.840 they're doing. It's a fun spin on what they're 00:08:49.840 --> 00:08:54.419 doing. Now, all of those guys are long time podcasters. 00:08:55.120 --> 00:08:59.549 They've been at it for a while. But let's look 00:08:59.549 --> 00:09:01.929 at a more recent trend, right? Which I think 00:09:01.929 --> 00:09:05.029 probably happened with The Office Ladies, which 00:09:05.029 --> 00:09:08.769 is like a rewatch podcast or maybe West Wing 00:09:08.769 --> 00:09:12.669 Weekly. But there are three rewatch podcasts 00:09:12.669 --> 00:09:16.490 that I listen to. Well, two I listen to. One, 00:09:16.490 --> 00:09:19.509 I'll tell you why in a minute. But of some of 00:09:19.509 --> 00:09:24.049 my favorite shows, right? So one is Fake Doctors 00:09:24.049 --> 00:09:26.149 Real Friends with Zach Braff and Donald Faison. 00:09:27.170 --> 00:09:30.570 the Lonely Island Seth Meyers podcast and How 00:09:30.570 --> 00:09:35.350 We Made Your Mother. The two I listened to are 00:09:35.350 --> 00:09:37.909 the Lonely Island Seth Meyers podcast and How 00:09:37.909 --> 00:09:41.710 We Made Your Mother. I stopped listening pretty 00:09:41.710 --> 00:09:47.289 quickly to Fake Doctors Real Friends. Now this 00:09:47.289 --> 00:09:49.389 like predates both of those shows by a while. 00:09:49.429 --> 00:09:51.669 So like it came out, I think it was pandemic 00:09:51.669 --> 00:09:55.470 era. I admittedly haven't listened to it in a 00:09:55.470 --> 00:09:59.370 while. But I gave it the old college try and 00:09:59.370 --> 00:10:02.250 I just like couldn't do it. Even though Scrubs 00:10:02.250 --> 00:10:05.649 is one of my favorite shows. Now I just checked 00:10:05.649 --> 00:10:08.230 and as I'm recording this three days ago they 00:10:08.230 --> 00:10:11.570 put out an episode called Our Last Hurrah. And 00:10:11.570 --> 00:10:13.730 before that it was basically like Real Friends 00:10:13.730 --> 00:10:16.250 classics. I scrolled back it looks like they 00:10:16.250 --> 00:10:19.509 did make it through the entire series. And that 00:10:19.509 --> 00:10:22.230 includes the spinoff right Scrubs Med School. 00:10:22.889 --> 00:10:25.250 But I stopped watching somewhere in season one. 00:10:25.709 --> 00:10:28.110 Because the show quickly got off the rails and 00:10:28.110 --> 00:10:32.009 they were focused more on the lives of Zach Braff 00:10:32.009 --> 00:10:35.769 and Donald Faison than on the actual show. And 00:10:35.769 --> 00:10:37.350 that's fine if that's how you're going to bill 00:10:37.350 --> 00:10:40.049 it. Now they cursed a lot. And while I curse 00:10:40.049 --> 00:10:42.889 a lot in my real life, I try not to curse a lot 00:10:42.889 --> 00:10:44.830 on podcasts, especially because I like to listen 00:10:44.830 --> 00:10:47.669 to podcasts in the car with my kids. That's neither 00:10:47.669 --> 00:10:53.720 here nor there. But... The banter went from banter 00:10:53.720 --> 00:10:58.500 to tangents that distracted. If we look at the 00:10:58.500 --> 00:11:00.580 Lonely Island Seth Meyers podcast and How We 00:11:00.580 --> 00:11:02.200 Made Your Mother, let's look at How We Made Your 00:11:02.200 --> 00:11:04.740 Mother first. I think this is the most focused 00:11:04.740 --> 00:11:08.899 show of all of them. Just by virtue of it being 00:11:08.899 --> 00:11:12.379 two people. Maybe sometimes three when they bring 00:11:12.379 --> 00:11:16.460 on a guest, which they don't do every episode. 00:11:17.420 --> 00:11:19.899 It's focused. They walk through the episode. 00:11:19.940 --> 00:11:22.080 They talk a bit about it. I don't know if there's 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:26.000 an outline. It seems really casual, but I think 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:29.759 they created a mission for the show and they 00:11:29.759 --> 00:11:31.480 are sticking pretty strictly to that mission, 00:11:31.500 --> 00:11:35.460 at least in this first few months of the show. 00:11:37.779 --> 00:11:39.919 Now, the Lonely Island Seth Meyers podcast, there's 00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:42.960 a lot of banter. There's a lot of inside jokes, 00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:48.279 but it's kind of... It's part of the lore of 00:11:48.279 --> 00:11:51.240 the show, like I was saying with Connected. You 00:11:51.240 --> 00:11:54.059 know, they got an inside joke and they call their 00:11:54.059 --> 00:11:56.379 listeners the Quaid army. And, you know, you 00:11:56.379 --> 00:11:59.480 say Quaid army and they respond righteous kill. 00:11:59.559 --> 00:12:03.279 And there's a whole bunch of nonsense. But ultimately, 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:07.799 the show is mostly about their time at SNL and 00:12:07.799 --> 00:12:09.600 they're walking through all of their shorts, 00:12:09.860 --> 00:12:13.080 like the digital shorts that they did. They'll 00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:16.899 sometimes... diverge and talk about current projects 00:12:16.899 --> 00:12:21.100 and things like that, but I listen to get a behind 00:12:21.100 --> 00:12:24.419 the scenes look at what it was like working at 00:12:24.419 --> 00:12:26.740 SNL, what it was like creating digital shorts, 00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:29.399 and an inside look at their creative process. 00:12:30.340 --> 00:12:35.539 And I get that, right? I'm listening to How We 00:12:35.539 --> 00:12:39.360 Made Your Mother because that show told such 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:42.620 an incredible story, regardless of how you feel 00:12:42.620 --> 00:12:46.139 about the last season. So told such an incredible 00:12:46.139 --> 00:12:51.159 story which with such continuity That I want 00:12:51.159 --> 00:12:53.799 to know how it happened and like how they put 00:12:53.799 --> 00:12:56.840 it all together and that's what I was curious 00:12:56.840 --> 00:13:01.480 about with fake doctors real friends, but it 00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:04.539 quickly turned into like The thing I remember 00:13:04.539 --> 00:13:09.259 most about listening to that show was them talking 00:13:09.259 --> 00:13:13.690 about going to Cabo and like Johnny C. McGinley, 00:13:13.809 --> 00:13:16.769 who played Dr. Cox, trying to get them back on 00:13:16.769 --> 00:13:23.730 track. And so like, I would love, maybe they 00:13:23.730 --> 00:13:26.470 changed this, maybe they got feedback and they 00:13:26.470 --> 00:13:29.490 course corrected. I'll have to listen again. 00:13:30.210 --> 00:13:33.409 But that's how they lost me. And so I'm telling 00:13:33.409 --> 00:13:36.190 you all this because I think a host -co -host 00:13:36.190 --> 00:13:41.259 format could be really good. The banter is really 00:13:41.259 --> 00:13:45.519 important, but don't let the banter distract 00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:49.279 from the mission of the show. Don't let your 00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:52.299 show turn into a bunch of inside jokes with a 00:13:52.299 --> 00:13:56.980 friend at the risk of alienating the audience. 00:13:58.220 --> 00:14:02.240 A little bit of banter is good. A show that's 00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:06.940 mostly banter and not core content is a show 00:14:06.940 --> 00:14:10.389 killer. So that's what I'm thinking. I'd love 00:14:10.389 --> 00:14:13.809 to hear your thoughts on this. Let me know over 00:14:13.809 --> 00:14:15.889 at streamlinedfeedback .com. What kind of show 00:14:15.889 --> 00:14:18.409 do you have? Interview? Host, co -host? Are you 00:14:18.409 --> 00:14:21.049 thinking about starting a show? Do you like solo 00:14:21.049 --> 00:14:23.509 episodes? Again, that's over at streamlinedfeedback 00:14:23.509 --> 00:14:26.090 .com. Thanks so much for listening. And until 00:14:26.090 --> 00:14:28.990 next time, I hope you find some space in your 00:14:28.990 --> 00:14:29.190 week.