WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.160 Indeed, God is beautiful and he loves beauty. 00:00:04.099 --> 00:00:07.540 That is a quote that hits you right at the very 00:00:07.540 --> 00:00:09.880 beginning of the material we're diving into today. 00:00:10.060 --> 00:00:12.599 It really does. It's a hadith, a saying attributed 00:00:12.599 --> 00:00:16.600 to the Prophet Muhammad. And honestly, it feels 00:00:16.600 --> 00:00:19.039 less like a strict religious instruction and 00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:21.839 more like, well, a universal key. It kind of 00:00:21.839 --> 00:00:24.059 unlocks this entire conversation we are about 00:00:24.059 --> 00:00:26.420 to have. Yeah, I completely agree. It sets the 00:00:26.420 --> 00:00:29.039 stakes immediately. Because when you hear that 00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:32.409 The idea that God actually is beauty. it fundamentally 00:00:32.409 --> 00:00:35.030 changes how you approach the physical world around 00:00:35.030 --> 00:00:36.609 you. Right, because making something beautiful 00:00:36.609 --> 00:00:39.270 isn't just, you know, interior decoration at 00:00:39.270 --> 00:00:40.829 that point. Exactly. It's an act of worship. 00:00:40.950 --> 00:00:43.329 It's an act of reaching out to the divine. And 00:00:43.329 --> 00:00:46.429 today we're going to see how that very specific 00:00:46.429 --> 00:00:49.810 drive for beauty actually managed to bridge one 00:00:49.810 --> 00:00:52.390 of the most hostile divides in human history. 00:00:52.630 --> 00:00:54.549 And hostile is definitely the operating word 00:00:54.549 --> 00:00:56.649 there. Because when most of us think about the 00:00:56.649 --> 00:00:58.429 history of the Mediterranean, specifically the 00:00:58.429 --> 00:01:00.890 Middle Ages, let's say from the 10th to the 16th 00:01:00.890 --> 00:01:03.549 century, We have a very specific, almost like 00:01:03.549 --> 00:01:06.340 a Hollywood movie playing in our heads. Oh, for 00:01:06.340 --> 00:01:08.700 sure. Lots of chainmail and dramatic speeches. 00:01:08.920 --> 00:01:11.920 Right. We see the Crusades. We see the Reconquista 00:01:11.920 --> 00:01:16.079 in Spain. We picture these glorious, bloody naval 00:01:16.079 --> 00:01:19.400 battles. Basically, we see a massive clash of 00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:21.739 civilizations. We are so conditioned to view 00:01:21.739 --> 00:01:24.439 the medieval relationship between Islam and Christianity 00:01:24.439 --> 00:01:28.840 as this perpetual binary state of war. Us versus 00:01:28.840 --> 00:01:31.700 them. Cross versus Crescent. Fortress Europe 00:01:31.700 --> 00:01:34.280 against the Islamic East. And look, I am not 00:01:34.280 --> 00:01:36.230 going to sit here and say, The wars didn't happen. 00:01:36.349 --> 00:01:38.209 Right. I mean, the violence was very real. It 00:01:38.209 --> 00:01:39.969 was absolutely real. But if you only look at 00:01:39.969 --> 00:01:42.310 the battlefields, you completely miss the actual 00:01:42.310 --> 00:01:45.109 texture of life. You miss the story of how people 00:01:45.109 --> 00:01:47.709 actually lived, how they traded, and how they 00:01:47.709 --> 00:01:49.689 created things together. And that is exactly 00:01:49.689 --> 00:01:51.569 the mission of this deep dive. We're digging 00:01:51.569 --> 00:01:54.730 into a really fascinating, incredibly dense collection 00:01:54.730 --> 00:01:57.290 of research titled The Medieval Mediterranean 00:01:57.290 --> 00:02:00.650 Between Islam and Christianity, Cross -Pollinations 00:02:00.650 --> 00:02:03.969 in Art, Architecture, and Material Culture. It's 00:02:03.969 --> 00:02:06.129 edited by... Sammy Luigi de Josa, and Nicolaus 00:02:06.129 --> 00:02:08.129 Frazidis. And let me tell you, this is not about 00:02:08.129 --> 00:02:10.729 how sultans fought kings. No, it really isn't. 00:02:10.729 --> 00:02:14.069 This is about how a bowl, a carpet, a bottle 00:02:14.069 --> 00:02:16.669 of oil, or even a stone column moved between 00:02:16.669 --> 00:02:19.810 these two supposedly separate worlds. It is about 00:02:19.810 --> 00:02:22.750 a concept the editors call the aesthetic space. 00:02:23.310 --> 00:02:25.909 I love that term, aesthetic space. It sounds 00:02:25.909 --> 00:02:28.090 almost sci -fi, but it is actually very grounded. 00:02:28.229 --> 00:02:30.349 Let's unpack this immediately before we even 00:02:30.349 --> 00:02:32.830 get into the physical objects. What does aesthetic 00:02:32.830 --> 00:02:35.319 space actually mean? mean in this context so 00:02:35.319 --> 00:02:38.759 think about it this way dogma you know religious 00:02:38.759 --> 00:02:41.740 rules strict theology political allegiance all 00:02:41.740 --> 00:02:44.539 of that creates borders right it creates walls 00:02:44.539 --> 00:02:47.180 it very clearly defines who is in and who is 00:02:47.180 --> 00:02:52.370 out but beauty art material refinement That creates 00:02:52.370 --> 00:02:54.849 what scholars in the source material call effective 00:02:54.849 --> 00:02:57.789 proximity. Effective proximity, meaning it brings 00:02:57.789 --> 00:03:00.349 people closer emotionally. Exactly. The core 00:03:00.349 --> 00:03:02.629 argument here is that the appreciation of beauty 00:03:02.629 --> 00:03:05.310 allowed these two rival faiths to intermingle 00:03:05.310 --> 00:03:07.449 in ways that politics just never would have permitted. 00:03:07.669 --> 00:03:09.889 Like a Christian could look at an Islamic textile 00:03:09.889 --> 00:03:12.729 and admire the weave, the color, the sheer luxury 00:03:12.729 --> 00:03:15.189 of it without necessarily converting to Islam 00:03:15.189 --> 00:03:17.900 or feeling like a traitor. Yeah. The aesthetic 00:03:17.900 --> 00:03:20.580 space is essentially this zone where judgment 00:03:20.580 --> 00:03:23.659 is suspended in favor of admiration. So beauty 00:03:23.659 --> 00:03:26.360 transcends all the heavy baggage. It's like a 00:03:26.360 --> 00:03:29.919 demilitarized zone for the eyes. That is a perfect 00:03:29.919 --> 00:03:33.919 analogy. A demilitarized zone for the eyes. And 00:03:33.919 --> 00:03:36.159 to see this zone in action, the researchers use 00:03:36.159 --> 00:03:39.340 a methodology called Microhistory. Microhistory. 00:03:39.340 --> 00:03:41.039 That sounds like we're taking a microscope to 00:03:41.039 --> 00:03:43.900 the historical timeline. We basically are. Instead 00:03:43.900 --> 00:03:46.580 of macrohistory, which deals with the grand rise 00:03:46.580 --> 00:03:49.219 and fall of empires and these broad, sweeping 00:03:49.219 --> 00:03:51.939 generalizations, we are looking at the story 00:03:51.939 --> 00:03:55.280 of specific, tangible objects. We're tracing 00:03:55.280 --> 00:03:58.139 individual choices. Like tracking a single package 00:03:58.139 --> 00:04:00.780 across the world, but in the 12th century. Precisely. 00:04:00.780 --> 00:04:02.780 We're asking questions like, why did a priest 00:04:02.780 --> 00:04:04.580 in Italy want a book that looked like it came 00:04:04.580 --> 00:04:06.900 from Cairo? Or why did a Muslim soldier... and 00:04:06.900 --> 00:04:09.599 built his own tomb using stones that had hardcore 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:11.780 Christian theology carved right into them. That 00:04:11.780 --> 00:04:14.560 is wild. Right. When you zoom in that close, 00:04:14.639 --> 00:04:16.740 the hard borders on the map just start to dissolve. 00:04:17.100 --> 00:04:19.540 I feel like we are conditioned to think of these 00:04:19.540 --> 00:04:23.500 medieval borders as rigid iron curtains. You're 00:04:23.500 --> 00:04:25.980 on this side, you're safe, you cross the line, 00:04:26.100 --> 00:04:29.000 you are deep in enemy territory. But the medieval 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:31.250 Mediterranean was just not like that. It was 00:04:31.250 --> 00:04:33.470 a fluid network. It was a sea of connectivity. 00:04:34.069 --> 00:04:37.439 As we go through these sources today, I want 00:04:37.439 --> 00:04:39.600 you to really try to imagine a world where a 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:42.439 Christian church is decorated with Islamic bowls 00:04:42.439 --> 00:04:45.360 and the holiest Christian relics are wrapped 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:48.240 in Muslim silks. OK, it sounds like we need to 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:51.259 completely reorient our mental maps for this. 00:04:51.339 --> 00:04:53.220 So let's just jump right into the first segment. 00:04:53.240 --> 00:04:55.120 Let's talk about this aesthetic space and the 00:04:55.120 --> 00:04:57.259 flow of objects, because you mentioned bowls 00:04:57.259 --> 00:04:59.839 in churches just now. And that sounds, well, 00:04:59.920 --> 00:05:01.600 to a modern ear, it sounds like someone made 00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:03.740 a huge mistake. It really does, doesn't it? But 00:05:03.740 --> 00:05:05.779 it was surprisingly common. We are looking at 00:05:05.779 --> 00:05:07.930 research. here by Maria Bourne -Poudaki, specifically 00:05:07.930 --> 00:05:11.110 focusing on Venetian Crete. Okay, Crete. Right. 00:05:11.250 --> 00:05:14.009 Now keep in mind, Crete is this massive island, 00:05:14.230 --> 00:05:16.290 strategically smack in the middle of all the 00:05:16.290 --> 00:05:18.389 major trade routes. It's a Venetian colony at 00:05:18.389 --> 00:05:21.209 this time, so it is Catholic ruled, but the local 00:05:21.209 --> 00:05:24.670 population is largely Greek Orthodox. And on 00:05:24.670 --> 00:05:27.230 top of all that, it's trading constantly with 00:05:27.230 --> 00:05:29.730 the Islamic world. So it's the ultimate crossroads, 00:05:29.850 --> 00:05:33.029 a total melting pot. A total melting pot. And 00:05:33.029 --> 00:05:35.069 in the late medieval period, Bourne -Poudaki 00:05:35.069 --> 00:05:37.220 found... something fascinating in the local church 00:05:37.220 --> 00:05:40.019 architecture. They call them immured bacini. 00:05:40.779 --> 00:05:42.819 Immured bacini. Okay, I have to be honest, that 00:05:42.819 --> 00:05:44.879 sounds like a delicious pasta dish, but I know 00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:47.250 it's not. What exactly are we looking at? No 00:05:47.250 --> 00:05:49.610 pasta involved, unfortunately. Amir just means 00:05:49.610 --> 00:05:52.009 embedded in a wall. And Bacini refers to ceramic 00:05:52.009 --> 00:05:54.670 bowls. Got it. So picture a Christian church, 00:05:54.709 --> 00:05:56.970 could be Orthodox or Catholic. It has the stone 00:05:56.970 --> 00:05:59.990 facade, very solemn, very sturdy. But embedded 00:05:59.990 --> 00:06:02.029 right into the exterior walls, high up where 00:06:02.029 --> 00:06:04.589 everyone can see them, are these incredibly colorful, 00:06:04.910 --> 00:06:08.149 glazed ceramic bowls. And here's the kicker. 00:06:08.209 --> 00:06:11.649 Many of them are Islamic ceramics. Wait, so they're 00:06:11.649 --> 00:06:14.800 taking bowls like... literal dinnerware made 00:06:14.800 --> 00:06:17.740 by Muslims, often featuring Islamic styles and 00:06:17.740 --> 00:06:20.139 patterns, and they are cementing them into the 00:06:20.139 --> 00:06:22.779 holy walls of a Christian church. That is exactly 00:06:22.779 --> 00:06:25.279 what they are doing. That is crazy. We have to 00:06:25.279 --> 00:06:28.540 ask the obvious question then. Why? Why on earth 00:06:28.540 --> 00:06:30.980 would you put the supposed enemy's dinner plates 00:06:30.980 --> 00:06:33.980 on your literal house of worship? Was it some 00:06:33.980 --> 00:06:36.339 kind of power statement like we conquered you 00:06:36.339 --> 00:06:39.040 so we are taking your bowls as trophies? Or was 00:06:39.040 --> 00:06:41.339 it some progressive, hey, we're all the same 00:06:41.339 --> 00:06:44.100 message? It's a great question, but the research 00:06:44.100 --> 00:06:46.860 suggests it wasn't really theological synchronization. 00:06:46.860 --> 00:06:49.379 They definitely weren't trying to say Islam and 00:06:49.379 --> 00:06:51.819 Christianity are one. And it wasn't necessarily 00:06:51.819 --> 00:06:54.660 a triumphalist conquest thing either. It was 00:06:54.660 --> 00:06:56.600 far more practical than that. And it goes right 00:06:56.600 --> 00:06:58.279 back to that concept of the aesthetic space. 00:06:58.579 --> 00:07:01.019 Practical is what way? It was about the glazed 00:07:01.019 --> 00:07:04.199 versus plain aesthetics. See, local pottery in 00:07:04.199 --> 00:07:06.579 Crete or mainland Greece at the time was often 00:07:06.579 --> 00:07:09.040 unglazed. It was plain terracotta. Like a standard 00:07:09.040 --> 00:07:11.660 flower pot. Exactly. It was functional, matte, 00:07:11.879 --> 00:07:14.459 and usually just brown or dull red. But these 00:07:14.459 --> 00:07:17.540 Islamic bowls coming from Mamluk Egypt or later 00:07:17.540 --> 00:07:20.420 coming from Spain, they were glazed. They were 00:07:20.420 --> 00:07:23.560 incredibly shiny. They had vivid colors, deep 00:07:23.560 --> 00:07:26.879 blues, bright greens, and lusterware that just 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:30.329 caught the Mediterranean sun perfectly. Oh. So 00:07:30.329 --> 00:07:32.170 it was about the bling. It was about catching 00:07:32.170 --> 00:07:35.310 the light. In a way, yes. It was entirely about 00:07:35.310 --> 00:07:38.230 visibility and status. If you are building a 00:07:38.230 --> 00:07:40.490 church, you want it to be beautiful. You want 00:07:40.490 --> 00:07:42.689 it to shine. You want it to reflect the light 00:07:42.689 --> 00:07:46.529 of God literally and metaphorically. These Islamic 00:07:46.529 --> 00:07:49.149 bowls provided color and reflection that local 00:07:49.149 --> 00:07:51.709 Greek materials simply could not match at the 00:07:51.709 --> 00:07:54.069 time. That is so interesting. Right. Because 00:07:54.069 --> 00:07:56.910 when that bowl crossed the sea, it lost its specific 00:07:56.910 --> 00:07:59.149 religious identity. People stopped seeing this 00:07:59.149 --> 00:08:00.930 as a Muslim bull, and it gained a completely 00:08:00.930 --> 00:08:03.430 new identity. This is a beautiful, expensive, 00:08:03.750 --> 00:08:06.149 exotic object that reflects the sun. It's like 00:08:06.149 --> 00:08:08.250 the object gets laundered of its ideology just 00:08:08.250 --> 00:08:10.730 by moving geographically. The Islamicness of 00:08:10.730 --> 00:08:12.870 the bull evaporates, and only the beautifulness 00:08:12.870 --> 00:08:15.009 remains. That's a really great way to put it. 00:08:15.050 --> 00:08:17.189 The aesthetic quality completely neutralizes 00:08:17.189 --> 00:08:20.170 the political origin. And Bourn -Poudaki's research 00:08:20.170 --> 00:08:22.970 really highlights Crete's role here. It wasn't 00:08:22.970 --> 00:08:25.730 just a Venetian outpost, it was a massive hub 00:08:25.730 --> 00:08:29.079 connecting Mamluk Egypt, Muslim Spain and the 00:08:29.079 --> 00:08:32.399 rest of Europe. These bowls are physical, cemented 00:08:32.399 --> 00:08:35.100 proof of a trade network that frankly did not 00:08:35.100 --> 00:08:37.700 care about religious wars. They cared about supply 00:08:37.700 --> 00:08:40.519 and demand. If the Mamluks make the shiniest 00:08:40.519 --> 00:08:43.039 bowls, the Christians are absolutely going to 00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:44.919 buy them for their churches. And I assume this 00:08:44.919 --> 00:08:47.059 intense trade wasn't limited to just ceramics. 00:08:47.480 --> 00:08:49.120 I mean, if they're embedding bowls and walls 00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:51.159 for the shine, what else are they trading for 00:08:51.159 --> 00:08:53.480 the sake of luxury? Textiles. And this is a huge 00:08:53.480 --> 00:08:55.960 one. We have a fascinating chapter by Anna Cabrera 00:08:55.960 --> 00:08:59.419 Lafuente that looks at Andalusi textiles. Now, 00:08:59.460 --> 00:09:02.080 Andalusi refers to Al -Andalus, which is Muslim 00:09:02.080 --> 00:09:04.460 Spain. Okay, Muslim Spain. High quality stuff, 00:09:04.559 --> 00:09:07.039 I imagine. I feel like Andalusi's silk was probably 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:09.610 the Italian leather of the 13th century. It was 00:09:09.610 --> 00:09:11.870 the absolute gold standard. Literally, they were 00:09:11.870 --> 00:09:15.470 often woven with actual gold thread. But La Fuente 00:09:15.470 --> 00:09:18.049 points out a massive misconception in the history 00:09:18.049 --> 00:09:21.210 of all this. For a very long time, historians 00:09:21.210 --> 00:09:23.809 and museum curators would find these high -quality 00:09:23.809 --> 00:09:26.389 silks in European churches and just automatically 00:09:26.389 --> 00:09:29.049 assume, oh, it's nice, it must be from Muslim 00:09:29.049 --> 00:09:33.049 Spain. They labeled everything Andalusi. So they 00:09:33.049 --> 00:09:35.549 were giving the brand name to everything, regardless 00:09:35.549 --> 00:09:37.250 of whether it was actually from there or not, 00:09:37.309 --> 00:09:40.169 like calling every tissue a Kleenex. Exactly 00:09:40.169 --> 00:09:42.049 like that. It just became a generic term for 00:09:42.049 --> 00:09:44.659 high quality. But new research using carbon dating 00:09:44.659 --> 00:09:47.379 and deep technical analysis of the weave itself 00:09:47.379 --> 00:09:51.059 shows it is a much more complex web. These textiles 00:09:51.059 --> 00:09:53.299 were moving along pilgrimage routes, not just 00:09:53.299 --> 00:09:56.480 standard trade lines. But here is the most striking 00:09:56.480 --> 00:09:58.299 part of her research, and this really challenges 00:09:58.299 --> 00:10:00.320 that clash of civilizations narrative we talked 00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:03.299 about. These textiles were often used to wrap 00:10:03.299 --> 00:10:05.539 Christian relics. Relics? Wait, we're talking 00:10:05.539 --> 00:10:07.320 about the bones of saints, pieces of the true 00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:09.639 cross, like the holiest of the holy objects. 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:12.200 The absolute holiest objects in Christianity. 00:10:12.200 --> 00:10:15.559 Take the San Isidoro Church in Leon, Spain, for 00:10:15.559 --> 00:10:18.360 example. You have these ornate reliquaries containing 00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:20.620 the physical remains of saints' objects that 00:10:20.620 --> 00:10:22.639 believers thought could literally channel divine 00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:26.080 power, and they are swathed in silks woven by 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:29.120 Muslim artisans. Wow. And here is the detail 00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:31.879 that really gets me. These silks are often covered 00:10:31.879 --> 00:10:34.360 in Arabic calligraphy. That seems, I mean, it 00:10:34.360 --> 00:10:37.019 seems wildly contradictory. Did the Christians 00:10:37.019 --> 00:10:39.519 know? Could they read the Arabic? Sometimes yes, 00:10:39.580 --> 00:10:41.679 sometimes no, but often it just didn't matter. 00:10:42.029 --> 00:10:44.690 Again, enter the aesthetic space. The sheer quality 00:10:44.690 --> 00:10:47.210 of the fabric, the undeniable luxury of it, is 00:10:47.210 --> 00:10:49.889 what signaled reverence. You don't wrap a revered 00:10:49.889 --> 00:10:52.730 saint in cheap burlap. You wrap them in the absolute 00:10:52.730 --> 00:10:55.769 finest silk available on the market. And if the 00:10:55.769 --> 00:10:58.629 finest silk comes from a Muslim workshop in Granada 00:10:58.629 --> 00:11:01.370 or Baghdad, then that is exactly what you use. 00:11:01.509 --> 00:11:04.090 The sanctity of the relic required the highest 00:11:04.090 --> 00:11:06.590 aesthetic honor, completely regardless of who 00:11:06.590 --> 00:11:08.649 wove the cloth or what language was written on 00:11:08.649 --> 00:11:11.309 it. So the material quality completely trom - 00:11:11.340 --> 00:11:14.139 the religious origin it implies that being holy 00:11:14.139 --> 00:11:17.019 has a specific look and that look was entirely 00:11:17.019 --> 00:11:19.460 shared across the mediterranean that is the key 00:11:19.460 --> 00:11:22.279 takeaway here it challenges the whole conquest 00:11:22.279 --> 00:11:24.740 narrative it wasn't just we beat them and took 00:11:24.740 --> 00:11:27.759 their stuff it suggests a deeply shared culture 00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:31.379 of luxury A Christian king and a Muslim sultan 00:11:31.379 --> 00:11:34.340 shared the exact same taste. They both agreed 00:11:34.340 --> 00:11:37.460 on what power and holiness look like. And that 00:11:37.460 --> 00:11:40.580 look was very often Islamic in origin. The visual 00:11:40.580 --> 00:11:42.539 language of power in the medieval Mediterranean 00:11:42.539 --> 00:11:46.259 was, in many ways, an Islamic visual language. 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:48.259 That connects perfectly to the next segment of 00:11:48.259 --> 00:11:50.759 the research. Because it's not just about pretty 00:11:50.759 --> 00:11:52.860 objects or luxury goods for the rich. It is about 00:11:52.860 --> 00:11:55.259 deeply shared knowledge. It's about the literal 00:11:55.259 --> 00:11:57.139 stuff you need to actually practice your religion 00:11:57.139 --> 00:11:59.769 on a daily basis. And this brings us to a story 00:11:59.769 --> 00:12:01.629 that I honestly found mind -blowing when I was 00:12:01.629 --> 00:12:04.809 reading the sources. The balsam of Mataria. Ah, 00:12:04.870 --> 00:12:07.610 yes. Hani Hamza's research. This is an absolute 00:12:07.610 --> 00:12:10.710 classic example of pragmatism beating dogma. 00:12:10.750 --> 00:12:12.730 This is where the rubber meets the road, or rather 00:12:12.730 --> 00:12:15.250 where the oil meets the forehead. So, set the 00:12:15.250 --> 00:12:18.610 scene for us. What exactly is this balsam, and 00:12:18.610 --> 00:12:21.029 why is it so incredibly important? So, we are 00:12:21.029 --> 00:12:23.450 talking about a specific type of plant, a balsam 00:12:23.450 --> 00:12:26.289 tree, that produced a very specific resin or 00:12:26.289 --> 00:12:29.230 oil. In the Christian tradition, specifically 00:12:29.230 --> 00:12:31.750 the Coptic and other Eastern churches, this oil 00:12:31.750 --> 00:12:34.190 was absolutely essential. It was used to make 00:12:34.190 --> 00:12:36.690 chrism, which is the holy anointing oil. Okay. 00:12:36.789 --> 00:12:39.539 You need chrism for baptism. You need it for 00:12:39.539 --> 00:12:41.940 the ordination of new priests. You need it to 00:12:41.940 --> 00:12:44.860 consecrate new churches. Basically, without this 00:12:44.860 --> 00:12:47.059 specific oil, legally speaking, within the church, 00:12:47.159 --> 00:12:49.659 you cannot perform the sacraments. The entire 00:12:49.659 --> 00:12:52.539 mechanism of Christian salvation literally grinds 00:12:52.539 --> 00:12:55.080 to a halt without it. OK, so incredibly high 00:12:55.080 --> 00:12:57.700 stakes. This isn't just nice perfume. This is 00:12:57.700 --> 00:13:00.419 the literal fuel for the religious engine. Very 00:13:00.419 --> 00:13:03.809 high stakes. But here is the massive catch. By 00:13:03.809 --> 00:13:06.029 the medieval period, this specific plant only 00:13:06.029 --> 00:13:08.409 grew effectively in one single garden in the 00:13:08.409 --> 00:13:12.000 entire world. Let me guess. Not in Rome. Yeah, 00:13:12.019 --> 00:13:14.139 no. And not in Constantinople. Not in Rome, not 00:13:14.139 --> 00:13:16.480 in Constantinople. It grew in Mataria, which 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:19.019 was a suburb of Cairo down in Egypt. Which was 00:13:19.019 --> 00:13:22.019 under? Mamluk rule. Muslim rule. So the Christian 00:13:22.019 --> 00:13:25.419 church, in order to perform its most sacred fundamental 00:13:25.419 --> 00:13:29.340 rites, was entirely dependent on a supply chain 00:13:29.340 --> 00:13:31.759 that was totally controlled by the Muslim sultan. 00:13:31.940 --> 00:13:34.360 Precisely. And the Mamluks absolutely knew it. 00:13:34.539 --> 00:13:36.940 They controlled the production of a substance 00:13:36.940 --> 00:13:40.649 vital for Christian salvation. Now, if you stick 00:13:40.649 --> 00:13:43.250 to the traditional clash of civilizations script, 00:13:43.409 --> 00:13:45.450 you would think, oh, the sultan would just burn 00:13:45.450 --> 00:13:47.809 the garden to the ground or cut off the supply 00:13:47.809 --> 00:13:49.929 to cripple the Christian faith. Right. Strike 00:13:49.929 --> 00:13:51.889 a massive blow against the enemy. But they didn't 00:13:51.889 --> 00:13:53.889 do that at all. They monetized it. They absolutely 00:13:53.889 --> 00:13:56.090 monetized it. And they used it as a brilliant 00:13:56.090 --> 00:13:59.169 diplomatic tool. It became a legend. The balsam 00:13:59.169 --> 00:14:01.529 of Mataria was famous throughout Europe and the 00:14:01.529 --> 00:14:04.110 Middle East. And what is really fascinating is 00:14:04.110 --> 00:14:06.850 the blend of lore surrounding this garden. The 00:14:06.850 --> 00:14:15.700 Christians believed the garden was. Right. So 00:14:15.700 --> 00:14:18.220 for Christians, this is deeply sanctified ground. 00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:21.840 It's a major holy site. Exactly. But the Mamluks, 00:14:21.960 --> 00:14:24.860 the Muslim rulers, were the caretakers of this 00:14:24.860 --> 00:14:27.340 Christian holy site. They actively maintained 00:14:27.340 --> 00:14:29.539 the garden. They organized the harvesting of 00:14:29.539 --> 00:14:32.480 the oil. Hani Hamza's research shows that this 00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:34.639 wasn't just a simple commodity being traded. 00:14:34.820 --> 00:14:38.399 It was heavy diplomacy. Sultans would gift small, 00:14:38.580 --> 00:14:41.679 precious vials of this oil to European kings 00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:44.679 or even directly to the pope. Wow. It shows such 00:14:44.679 --> 00:14:47.179 a complex, layered relationship. It's like the 00:14:47.179 --> 00:14:49.379 sultan is saying, you are my enemy. technically, 00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:52.320 but I control the literal keys to your religious 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:54.940 rituals and I am going to use that leverage to 00:14:54.940 --> 00:14:56.820 keep you talking to me. But I'm also going to 00:14:56.820 --> 00:14:58.720 protect the site because it's valuable to me 00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:01.110 too. It is the... ultimate frenemy situation. 00:15:01.769 --> 00:15:04.090 I hate you, but I desperately need your holy 00:15:04.090 --> 00:15:06.309 oil. I hate you, but I really like your diplomatic 00:15:06.309 --> 00:15:08.610 gold. It proves that the economic and ritual 00:15:08.610 --> 00:15:10.850 ties were so much stronger than the ideological 00:15:10.850 --> 00:15:13.450 divide. And it goes even deeper than just trade 00:15:13.450 --> 00:15:15.970 and ritual. It goes to the very look of knowledge 00:15:15.970 --> 00:15:18.570 itself. We have another incredible case study 00:15:18.570 --> 00:15:21.570 here by Alison Oka about book bindings. Now, 00:15:21.590 --> 00:15:23.090 this is something that actually affects us even 00:15:23.090 --> 00:15:26.169 today when we think about books. Being a massive 00:15:26.169 --> 00:15:28.169 book lover, this one really resonated with me. 00:15:28.429 --> 00:15:31.190 Because we all think of the classic old scholarly 00:15:31.190 --> 00:15:34.029 book. You picture dark leather, gold tooling, 00:15:34.250 --> 00:15:36.649 maybe a protective flap on the edge. It just 00:15:36.649 --> 00:15:40.149 screams old world Europe to us. Right. If you 00:15:40.149 --> 00:15:42.549 picture a quintessential Renaissance book sitting 00:15:42.549 --> 00:15:45.149 in a beautiful library in Florence or Venice, 00:15:45.370 --> 00:15:47.370 you are actually picturing something that looks 00:15:47.370 --> 00:15:50.809 very, very Islamic. Really? Still? Yes. Because 00:15:50.809 --> 00:15:53.769 before this period. European books, what we call 00:15:53.769 --> 00:15:56.269 Gothic books, were extremely heavy. They had 00:15:56.269 --> 00:15:58.549 thick wooden boards for covers. They were clunky. 00:15:58.730 --> 00:16:01.669 They had big heavy metal clasps to keep them 00:16:01.669 --> 00:16:04.230 shut. They were basically meant to sit on a heavy 00:16:04.230 --> 00:16:06.789 wooden lectern and just stay there. Like a chained 00:16:06.789 --> 00:16:09.620 library book. Exactly. But in the Islamic world, 00:16:09.659 --> 00:16:12.259 specifically the Mamluk and Ottoman empires, 00:16:12.340 --> 00:16:14.059 they had developed an entirely different, much 00:16:14.059 --> 00:16:16.399 more advanced technology for books. They used 00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:18.720 pasteboards, which are layers of paper glued 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:20.899 together instead of thick wood. It was so much 00:16:20.899 --> 00:16:24.379 lighter. They used incredibly fine leather. They 00:16:24.379 --> 00:16:27.220 pioneered gold tooling, which is stamping intricate 00:16:27.220 --> 00:16:30.620 gold geometric patterns directly into the leather. 00:16:30.759 --> 00:16:33.299 And they used the envelope flap that folds over 00:16:33.299 --> 00:16:36.100 the front to protect the pages. And the Italians 00:16:36.100 --> 00:16:38.409 saw this and just said, We want that. Exactly. 00:16:38.490 --> 00:16:41.450 As the Italian humanists started reviving classical 00:16:41.450 --> 00:16:43.669 knowledge, you know, translating Plato and Aristotle, 00:16:43.970 --> 00:16:46.730 they wanted a completely new look for this new 00:16:46.730 --> 00:16:49.549 wave of learning. They did not want the clunky, 00:16:49.610 --> 00:16:51.669 heavy Gothic style that was heavily associated 00:16:51.669 --> 00:16:53.830 with what they saw as the Dark Ages. They wanted 00:16:53.830 --> 00:16:56.649 sophistication. And to them, the high culture 00:16:56.649 --> 00:16:59.330 of the East, the Islamic world, visually represented 00:16:59.330 --> 00:17:02.059 that intellectual sophistication. That is so 00:17:02.059 --> 00:17:03.820 interesting. So the physical vehicle for the 00:17:03.820 --> 00:17:05.759 European Renaissance, the actual physical book 00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:08.400 itself, was technologically and aesthetically 00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:10.680 an Islamic import. The container of the knowledge 00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:13.440 was Islamic, even if the text inside was Latin 00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:16.500 or Greek. Allison Ota traces exactly how these 00:17:16.500 --> 00:17:18.640 specific bookbinding techniques migrated across 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:21.480 the sea from Cairo and Istanbul straight into 00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:24.220 Venice. It's just another amazing example of 00:17:24.220 --> 00:17:27.019 how the aesthetic... the cool factor, if you 00:17:27.019 --> 00:17:29.819 will, completely overrode any religious prejudice. 00:17:30.180 --> 00:17:32.599 To be modern, to be seen as a true intellectual 00:17:32.599 --> 00:17:35.200 in Renaissance Italy, meant holding a book that 00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:36.920 looked like it came straight out of the Sultan's 00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:39.559 personal library. I love that so much. It's literally 00:17:39.559 --> 00:17:41.960 like buying the latest tech today. It's entirely 00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:44.539 about the design language. You want the sleekest, 00:17:44.539 --> 00:17:47.339 most advanced design completely regardless of 00:17:47.339 --> 00:17:48.980 where it was invented or who manufactured it. 00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:51.740 It really is. And sometimes this intense mixing 00:17:51.740 --> 00:17:54.019 of design languages creates something that is 00:17:54.019 --> 00:17:56.799 truly baffling to historians, a hybrid object 00:17:56.799 --> 00:17:59.279 that completely defies simple categorization. 00:17:59.579 --> 00:18:02.440 Which perfectly brings us to segment three, the 00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:05.579 hybrid object. When three hands touch one artifact, 00:18:05.819 --> 00:18:07.740 we're looking at a very specific artifact found 00:18:07.740 --> 00:18:10.599 at Mount Athos, specifically at St. Paul's Monastery. 00:18:10.700 --> 00:18:12.819 And this thing sounds like a complete puzzle. 00:18:13.210 --> 00:18:15.650 It is a massive puzzle. This is research done 00:18:15.650 --> 00:18:18.910 by Nikolaos Frisidis and Pascalis Ingroudis. 00:18:19.230 --> 00:18:22.410 This object is, well, the best word for it is 00:18:22.410 --> 00:18:25.069 a survivor. It's a composite object. Describe 00:18:25.069 --> 00:18:26.789 it for the listener. What does it actually look 00:18:26.789 --> 00:18:29.630 like? So imagine a metal candlestick. The base 00:18:29.630 --> 00:18:32.269 of it is beautifully worked metal. It features 00:18:32.269 --> 00:18:34.670 a prominent double -headed eagle and various 00:18:34.670 --> 00:18:38.329 astrological symbols. Now this base is seljuk. 00:18:38.410 --> 00:18:40.970 It comes from Muslim Anatolia, probably made 00:18:40.970 --> 00:18:43.670 in the 12th or 13th century. Okay, so a Muslim 00:18:43.670 --> 00:18:46.190 -made candlestick base. Right. But attached firmly 00:18:46.190 --> 00:18:48.990 to the top of it is a cross, a distinctly Venetian 00:18:48.990 --> 00:18:51.650 Catholic cross. Okay. And the whole composite 00:18:51.650 --> 00:18:54.009 thing is currently sitting in a strict Orthodox 00:18:54.009 --> 00:18:56.490 monastery on Mount Athos, and it was used in 00:18:56.490 --> 00:18:59.650 Greek liturgy. That is absurd. A Muslim base, 00:18:59.869 --> 00:19:02.829 a Catholic top, and an Orthodox home. It is like 00:19:02.829 --> 00:19:05.700 the turducken of... religious artifacts that 00:19:05.700 --> 00:19:08.019 is well that's a very vivid image but yes yeah 00:19:08.019 --> 00:19:10.960 it physically embodies the micro history of the 00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:13.720 entire region this object isn't just one thing 00:19:13.720 --> 00:19:16.900 it is a literal collision of three distinct cultures 00:19:16.900 --> 00:19:18.599 how does that even happen practically do they 00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:20.740 just find a base weld across onto it and call 00:19:20.740 --> 00:19:24.160 it a day essentially yes but the analysis goes 00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:26.720 so much deeper than the physical joining the 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:29.950 real question is why did they keep the base Why 00:19:29.950 --> 00:19:32.750 didn't the Christians just melt it down and forge 00:19:32.750 --> 00:19:35.930 a properly Christian base for their cross? And 00:19:35.930 --> 00:19:39.650 the answer lies in that symbol on the base. The 00:19:39.650 --> 00:19:42.329 double -headed eagle. Now wait, I know the double 00:19:42.329 --> 00:19:44.829 -headed eagle is a distinctly Byzantine symbol. 00:19:45.319 --> 00:19:47.759 It represents the Roman Empire looking both east 00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:50.339 and west. You still see it on flags in the region 00:19:50.339 --> 00:19:52.720 today. That is the Byzantine and Orthodox interpretation, 00:19:53.079 --> 00:19:55.400 yes. It is imperial. It represents the divine 00:19:55.400 --> 00:19:58.240 authority of Constantinople. But in the Seljuk 00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:00.400 context, the Islamic context where the base was 00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:02.119 originally made, the double -headed eagle was 00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:04.920 also a very common symbol. But there it was cosmological. 00:20:05.180 --> 00:20:09.099 It represented power, sure, but often in an astrological 00:20:09.099 --> 00:20:11.839 or talismanic sense. It was viewed as a protector 00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:14.000 figure. Oh, so you have a symbol that easily 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:16.839 passes. in both cultures. Exactly. This is the 00:20:16.839 --> 00:20:20.220 absolute key to its survival. The visual overlap 00:20:20.220 --> 00:20:22.599 allowed the object to survive the transition 00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:25.640 between religions. A Christian monk looks at 00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:28.160 this candlestick base and sees the Byzantine 00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:32.319 eagle, his own imperial heritage. A Muslim artisan 00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:35.519 looks at the exact same base and sees a Seljuk 00:20:35.519 --> 00:20:38.500 cosmological symbol. because the symbol was completely 00:20:38.500 --> 00:20:41.299 ambiguous, or rather, because it held a shared 00:20:41.299 --> 00:20:44.119 yet different meaning for both TDs. The object 00:20:44.119 --> 00:20:46.640 could be seamlessly repurposed rather than destroyed. 00:20:46.859 --> 00:20:49.660 It could just pass. It is like linguistic code 00:20:49.660 --> 00:20:51.640 switching, but for physical objects. It speaks 00:20:51.640 --> 00:20:53.680 whatever visual language the viewer happens to 00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:56.240 speak. Perfectly said. And that ability to code 00:20:56.240 --> 00:20:58.500 switch visually is the only thing that saved 00:20:58.500 --> 00:21:01.519 it. It allowed a Seljuk object to literally hold 00:21:01.519 --> 00:21:04.460 up a Venetian cross on a Greek altar. It proves 00:21:04.460 --> 00:21:06.299 that these cultures were not hermetically sealed 00:21:06.299 --> 00:21:19.099 by... Speaking of things being misunderstood, 00:21:19.339 --> 00:21:21.839 and this is honestly my favorite story in the 00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:24.220 entire collection of sources we read that we 00:21:24.220 --> 00:21:26.779 have to talk about the marble slabs. This story. 00:21:27.339 --> 00:21:29.160 I mean, of all the stories we've covered, this 00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:31.700 one feels the most ironic. It feels like a comedy 00:21:31.700 --> 00:21:33.799 scriptwriter wrote it. Oh, this is the ultimate 00:21:33.799 --> 00:21:36.460 historical irony. This is the story of the marble 00:21:36.460 --> 00:21:39.640 slabs of 1166. Segment four, misunderstanding 00:21:39.640 --> 00:21:42.660 is preservation. Let's dive in. What exactly 00:21:42.660 --> 00:21:45.660 are these slabs? These are massive, incredibly 00:21:45.660 --> 00:21:48.480 heavy marble inscriptions. Originally, they were 00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:51.460 set up inside the Hagia Sophia in Constantinople 00:21:51.460 --> 00:21:53.980 during the height of the Byzantine era. And they 00:21:53.980 --> 00:21:56.579 contain the text of a very specific, incredibly 00:21:56.579 --> 00:21:59.279 dense theological decree. It's from a church 00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:02.660 council held in 1166 that was furiously debating 00:22:02.660 --> 00:22:04.819 the meaning of a phrase from the Gospel of John. 00:22:04.980 --> 00:22:07.799 My father is greater than I. My father is greater 00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:11.150 than I. OK, that is heavy theology. Extremely 00:22:11.150 --> 00:22:13.250 heavy. It is fundamentally about the nature of 00:22:13.250 --> 00:22:15.670 Christ. Is he totally equal to God the Father? 00:22:15.809 --> 00:22:18.589 Is he somehow subordinate? The council ultimately 00:22:18.589 --> 00:22:20.829 decided on a specific orthodox interpretation 00:22:20.829 --> 00:22:23.910 that Christ is equal in his divinity but inferior 00:22:23.910 --> 00:22:26.690 in his humanity. Now, the minute details don't 00:22:26.690 --> 00:22:28.549 matter as much as the fact that this text is 00:22:28.549 --> 00:22:31.849 hardcore, uncompromising Christian dogma. It 00:22:31.849 --> 00:22:34.569 is explicitly Trinitarian. It rigidly defines 00:22:34.569 --> 00:22:36.789 the nature of Jesus as the Son of God. Okay, 00:22:36.829 --> 00:22:40.289 so massive Christian text carved into marble 00:22:40.289 --> 00:22:43.289 on a wall in the Hagia Sophia. Standard Byzantine 00:22:43.289 --> 00:22:46.950 stuff. Standard. Until the year 1453, the Ottomans 00:22:46.950 --> 00:22:50.170 conquer Constantinople. The Hagia Sophia is converted 00:22:50.170 --> 00:22:52.769 into a mosque. Now, usually you would expect 00:22:52.769 --> 00:22:54.789 the new Islamic rulers to smash these slabs to 00:22:54.789 --> 00:22:57.029 dust, right? Yeah. The text completely contradicts 00:22:57.029 --> 00:22:59.109 Islamic theology, which views Jesus strictly 00:22:59.109 --> 00:23:01.309 as a mortal prophet, not the literal son of God. 00:23:01.430 --> 00:23:03.890 God has no partners. That is the absolute central 00:23:03.890 --> 00:23:06.029 tenet of Islam. Right. So technically, to the 00:23:06.029 --> 00:23:08.869 new rulers, this marble slab is pure blasphemy. 00:23:08.950 --> 00:23:12.119 But they didn't smash it. Fast forward a century 00:23:12.119 --> 00:23:15.319 or so. These massive slabs are moved from the 00:23:15.319 --> 00:23:18.500 Hagia Sophia. And where do they end up? They 00:23:18.500 --> 00:23:21.259 end up decorating the mausoleum, the grand tomb 00:23:21.259 --> 00:23:23.640 of Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent. Wait, wait, 00:23:23.700 --> 00:23:25.660 wait, wait. Let me process this. You're telling 00:23:25.660 --> 00:23:28.480 me the tomb of one of the absolute greatest Muslim 00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:32.480 sultans in history is decorated with huge Byzantine 00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:35.480 slabs proclaiming the literal divinity of Christ. 00:23:35.930 --> 00:23:38.869 Yes, the longest lapidary Byzantine inscription 00:23:38.869 --> 00:23:41.670 in existence ended up protecting the body of 00:23:41.670 --> 00:23:44.279 the Caliph of Islam. How? Why would they do that? 00:23:44.299 --> 00:23:46.319 That seems completely impossible. That is exactly 00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:48.539 the question the researchers asked. Forik Bilici 00:23:48.539 --> 00:23:51.039 and Helene Fregaki call this phenomenon misunderstanding 00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:53.759 as preservation. The most likely explanation 00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:55.940 is that the Ottoman architects simply could not 00:23:55.940 --> 00:23:58.799 read the Byzantine Greek theology. Or, perhaps 00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:01.359 more accurately, they just didn't care what the 00:24:01.359 --> 00:24:03.359 words actually meant. They cared deeply about 00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:04.859 what the words looked like. They just really 00:24:04.859 --> 00:24:07.380 liked the font. In a way, yes. They viewed the 00:24:07.380 --> 00:24:10.279 script as deeply ancient. There is this widespread 00:24:10.279 --> 00:24:13.859 medieval concept of talismanic power. The sheer 00:24:13.859 --> 00:24:16.599 otherness of the text, the fact that it was ancient, 00:24:16.759 --> 00:24:19.759 incomprehensible Greek, beautifully carved into 00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:22.440 high -quality marble, gave it a profound sense 00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:25.859 of magic, of lingering power. They likely saw 00:24:25.859 --> 00:24:28.400 it as spolia -reused material that carried the 00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:31.299 baraka, the divine blessing or power of the ancient 00:24:31.299 --> 00:24:33.579 conquered city. So they looked at it and thought, 00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:35.819 this looks incredibly powerful, it looks magical, 00:24:36.039 --> 00:24:38.099 let's put it on the sultan's tomb to protect 00:24:38.099 --> 00:24:40.849 him. Even though if they had bothered to translate 00:24:40.849 --> 00:24:43.150 it, it would be a total heresy to them. Exactly. 00:24:43.230 --> 00:24:45.930 The aesthetic space trumped the theology completely 00:24:45.930 --> 00:24:48.829 and totally. The stones were preserved and elevated 00:24:48.829 --> 00:24:51.009 because they were impressive artifacts of power, 00:24:51.130 --> 00:24:53.230 not because of the actual message they conveyed. 00:24:53.390 --> 00:24:56.170 The visual awe completely silenced the theological 00:24:56.170 --> 00:24:59.089 conflict. Now there is a story in the notes here 00:24:59.089 --> 00:25:02.710 about a mufti. Is this a legend or did this actually 00:25:02.710 --> 00:25:05.119 happen? It's a bit of both, but it's a great 00:25:05.119 --> 00:25:07.220 little anecdote recounted in the sources that 00:25:07.220 --> 00:25:10.220 illustrates the mindset. The legend goes that 00:25:10.220 --> 00:25:14.039 Sultan Selim II, Suleiman's successor, eventually 00:25:14.039 --> 00:25:17.779 noticed these weird stones and asked a mufti, 00:25:17.779 --> 00:25:20.839 a high -ranking religious scholar, what the Greek 00:25:20.839 --> 00:25:23.650 words actually said. Put yourself in that mufti's 00:25:23.650 --> 00:25:25.150 shoes. You probably don't know ancient Greek. 00:25:25.250 --> 00:25:27.430 Or if you do, you know it says something intensely 00:25:27.430 --> 00:25:29.589 Christian. You cannot look the sultan in the 00:25:29.589 --> 00:25:32.390 eye and say, hey, just so you know, your dad 00:25:32.390 --> 00:25:35.009 is buried under a massive monument to Christian 00:25:35.009 --> 00:25:37.710 dogma. Oh, my God. That is a career ending move 00:25:37.710 --> 00:25:40.190 or honestly a life ending move. Right. So the 00:25:40.190 --> 00:25:42.089 mufti thinks fast and claims they are the mysteries 00:25:42.089 --> 00:25:44.630 of Ali, referring to Ali, the cousin and son 00:25:44.630 --> 00:25:46.849 in law of the prophet Muhammad. He basically 00:25:46.849 --> 00:25:48.630 tells the sultan, oh, it's deep secret Islamic 00:25:48.630 --> 00:25:50.329 mystery, your majesty. Don't worry about it. 00:25:50.390 --> 00:25:53.109 He improvised. He completely. bluffed. He claimed 00:25:53.109 --> 00:25:55.950 the Christian text was esoteric Islamic wisdom 00:25:55.950 --> 00:25:58.950 just to protect the stones or, more likely, to 00:25:58.950 --> 00:26:01.960 protect his own neck. But it is a perfect historical 00:26:01.960 --> 00:26:05.160 example of how meaning is entirely malleable. 00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:08.339 The physical object stays exactly the same, but 00:26:08.339 --> 00:26:10.640 the story we tell ourselves about it changes 00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:13.400 to fit our current political or aesthetic needs. 00:26:13.579 --> 00:26:15.640 That is just, I love that so much. It perfectly 00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:18.160 shows that people will just bend reality to fit 00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:20.140 the aesthetic they want. If they want to keep 00:26:20.140 --> 00:26:22.460 the pretty powerful looking stones, they will 00:26:22.460 --> 00:26:24.960 invent a theological reason to justify keeping 00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:27.259 the pretty stones. And that bending of reality, 00:26:27.420 --> 00:26:29.690 that negotiation, brings us right into... To 00:26:29.690 --> 00:26:33.130 segment five, the idea of identity and architecture, 00:26:33.470 --> 00:26:36.470 how individual people actively use these aesthetic 00:26:36.470 --> 00:26:39.269 choices to define who they were. It's about blurring 00:26:39.269 --> 00:26:41.829 the lines. It's about how minority groups navigated 00:26:41.829 --> 00:26:44.130 this deeply mixed up visual world. Right. And 00:26:44.130 --> 00:26:45.630 we're talking about tiras again, but this time 00:26:45.630 --> 00:26:48.529 specifically Coptic tiras. Right. We touched 00:26:48.529 --> 00:26:50.910 on luxury textiles earlier, but this is a very 00:26:50.910 --> 00:26:53.539 specific political application of them. This 00:26:53.539 --> 00:26:56.960 is Arielle Winnick's research. Tiras were highly 00:26:56.960 --> 00:27:00.019 specific inscribed textiles, usually taking the 00:27:00.019 --> 00:27:02.640 form of robes of honor. In the Islamic world, 00:27:02.819 --> 00:27:04.859 they were officially distributed by the caliph 00:27:04.859 --> 00:27:07.819 himself. They had the caliph's name and titles 00:27:07.819 --> 00:27:10.099 prominently embroidered right onto the bands 00:27:10.099 --> 00:27:12.660 of the fabric. If you wore one in public, it 00:27:12.660 --> 00:27:15.200 meant you were in with the in crowd. You actively 00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:18.180 had the ruler's favor. Okay. So it's like getting 00:27:18.180 --> 00:27:20.519 a varsity jacket from the popular team captain. 00:27:20.700 --> 00:27:22.900 Right. Or wearing a branded hoodie from a really 00:27:22.900 --> 00:27:25.759 exclusive tech company. Exactly. It was a highly 00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:28.359 visible marker of political loyalty and status. 00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:31.960 But here is the fascinating twist. Coptic Christians 00:27:31.960 --> 00:27:34.579 living in Egypt, who were obviously living as 00:27:34.579 --> 00:27:37.339 a religious minority under Muslim rule, adopted 00:27:37.339 --> 00:27:39.839 this exact aesthetic form. They started making 00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:42.460 their own tiras. But they couldn't possibly wear 00:27:42.460 --> 00:27:44.059 the caliph's name if they were doing their own 00:27:44.059 --> 00:27:45.819 separate religious thing, right? That would defeat 00:27:45.819 --> 00:27:48.490 the purpose. Well, they kept the entire visual 00:27:48.490 --> 00:27:51.069 language. They kept the distinct bands of writing 00:27:51.069 --> 00:27:53.230 on the sleeves. They kept the exact layout and 00:27:53.230 --> 00:27:56.230 colors. But instead of naming the Muslim caliph, 00:27:56.470 --> 00:27:59.589 their inscriptions named God or Christ, or they 00:27:59.589 --> 00:28:03.130 use specific Coptic Christian prayers. So from 00:28:03.130 --> 00:28:06.430 10 feet away in the street, you look exactly 00:28:06.430 --> 00:28:09.789 like a loyal, wealthy subject wearing the trendy, 00:28:09.809 --> 00:28:12.130 officially sanctioned Islamic court fashion. 00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:15.359 But up close, you are actually reading a Christian 00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:18.200 prayer. Precisely. It is all about fitting in 00:28:18.200 --> 00:28:21.019 while simultaneously standing out. Winnick argues 00:28:21.019 --> 00:28:23.259 that these Christians were basically inscribing 00:28:23.259 --> 00:28:25.460 their bodies. They were actively adopting the 00:28:25.460 --> 00:28:27.680 dominant visual culture because, well, that's 00:28:27.680 --> 00:28:29.700 just what power and success look like in that 00:28:29.700 --> 00:28:32.079 society. But they were subtly subverting the 00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:34.759 text to assert their own specific minority religious 00:28:34.759 --> 00:28:37.500 identity. It's a brilliant survival strategy. 00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:40.240 You don't retreat into a cultural shell. You 00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:42.259 put on the camouflage of the ruling class, but 00:28:42.259 --> 00:28:44.079 you tweak it just enough for your own community 00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:46.779 to recognize. That is so incredibly smart. It 00:28:46.779 --> 00:28:48.640 is visual code switching again, just like the 00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:50.990 candlestick. And the sources show it wasn't just 00:28:50.990 --> 00:28:52.809 happening on their clothes. It was happening 00:28:52.809 --> 00:28:54.869 in their massive public buildings, too. We have 00:28:54.869 --> 00:28:57.230 a whole section here on Mucornis. Mucornis, yes. 00:28:57.630 --> 00:29:00.190 If you have ever seen pictures of the Alhambra 00:29:00.190 --> 00:29:02.990 in Spain or really any great medieval mosque, 00:29:03.170 --> 00:29:05.910 you know what Mucornis is. It's that incredibly 00:29:05.910 --> 00:29:09.869 complex geometric honeycomb vaulting in the domes 00:29:09.869 --> 00:29:12.690 and arches. It almost looks like stone stalactites 00:29:12.690 --> 00:29:15.950 hanging down. It is arguably the single most 00:29:15.950 --> 00:29:19.609 distinctive, recognizable feature. Islamic architecture. 00:29:19.769 --> 00:29:21.430 You see a picture of that, you immediately say 00:29:21.430 --> 00:29:23.849 Islam. But Richard Peer and McCleary's research 00:29:23.849 --> 00:29:27.670 found them inside Christian churches. Yes, inside 00:29:27.670 --> 00:29:30.349 Armenian churches and in other Christian buildings 00:29:30.349 --> 00:29:33.130 in Mosul and across Anatolia. A great example 00:29:33.130 --> 00:29:35.170 he uses is the Church of the Holy Apostles at 00:29:35.170 --> 00:29:37.880 Anani. Now, why on earth would a Christian architect 00:29:37.880 --> 00:29:42.079 consciously choose to use the literal brand logo 00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:44.720 of Islamic architecture for their church? Because 00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:47.319 to them, it wasn't the brand logo of Islam. It 00:29:47.319 --> 00:29:49.720 was just the modern style. To be contemporary 00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:53.480 in the 12th or 13th century, to show your congregation 00:29:53.480 --> 00:29:55.799 and your rivals that you were on the absolute 00:29:55.799 --> 00:29:58.440 cutting edge of building technology and high 00:29:58.440 --> 00:30:02.579 fashion, you used Muqarnas vaulting. So it wasn't 00:30:02.579 --> 00:30:04.519 viewed as Muslim architecture at all. It was 00:30:04.519 --> 00:30:06.819 just viewed as... as modern architecture. Exactly. 00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:09.720 We modern people are the ones projecting the 00:30:09.720 --> 00:30:12.359 strict religious label onto the geometry today. 00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:16.720 Back then, it was just the incredibly cool, structurally 00:30:16.720 --> 00:30:19.579 brilliant new way to hold up a roof. It shows 00:30:19.579 --> 00:30:21.619 that architectural forms were treated as neutral 00:30:21.619 --> 00:30:24.940 technology, as fashion trends, not strictly as 00:30:24.940 --> 00:30:27.319 loaded religious symbols. If the engineering 00:30:27.319 --> 00:30:29.420 works well and it looks beautiful, we are going 00:30:29.420 --> 00:30:31.579 to use it no matter who invented it. If it works, 00:30:31.619 --> 00:30:33.609 use it. That honestly seems to be the overarching 00:30:33.609 --> 00:30:36.589 motto of this entire era we're looking at. Which 00:30:36.589 --> 00:30:39.130 brings us to our final major case study in this 00:30:39.130 --> 00:30:43.130 segment, esoteric spolia in Cairo. And this one 00:30:43.130 --> 00:30:45.049 involves actual magic, doesn't it? It really 00:30:45.049 --> 00:30:47.730 does. This is Sami Luigi de Jus' research focusing 00:30:47.730 --> 00:30:50.250 on the mosque of Sultan al -Nasir Mohammed in 00:30:50.250 --> 00:30:53.210 Cairo. So the sultan is building a massive new 00:30:53.210 --> 00:30:55.980 mosque. And he goes out of his way to import 00:30:55.980 --> 00:30:58.779 very specific columns, ancient, often Christian 00:30:58.779 --> 00:31:01.319 or pre -Christian columns, from completely different 00:31:01.319 --> 00:31:03.619 historical sites to hold up his mosque. Right. 00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:05.240 Now, typically, older historians would look at 00:31:05.240 --> 00:31:07.180 that and say, oh, he is physically conquering 00:31:07.180 --> 00:31:09.339 the past. He is taking their ancient columns 00:31:09.339 --> 00:31:11.700 and stepping on them to show Islamic dominance, 00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:15.460 standard empire stuff. But De Giza argues it 00:31:15.460 --> 00:31:17.339 is much more nuanced than that. He connects this 00:31:17.339 --> 00:31:21.119 specific architectural choice to... Hermeticism. 00:31:21.460 --> 00:31:24.200 Hermeticism. Like Hermes, the Greek god. Yes. 00:31:24.319 --> 00:31:27.000 But specifically how he was viewed in the medieval 00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:30.420 Islamic mind. Hermes Trismegistus was a legendary 00:31:30.420 --> 00:31:33.079 figure often directly associated with the Quranic 00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:35.599 prophet Idris. He wasn't just a myth. He was 00:31:35.599 --> 00:31:38.039 seen as a profound sage, the ultimate source 00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:41.319 of ancient wisdom, early science, and yes, esoteric 00:31:41.319 --> 00:31:43.960 magic. So reusing these very specific ancient 00:31:43.960 --> 00:31:46.599 columns wasn't just cheap recycling to save stone. 00:31:47.049 --> 00:31:49.130 Not at all. It was a highly deliberate attempt 00:31:49.130 --> 00:31:51.769 to harness that ancient wisdom, to physically 00:31:51.769 --> 00:31:55.109 harness Baraka, which means blessing or spiritual 00:31:55.109 --> 00:31:58.769 power. By incorporating these specific ancient 00:31:58.769 --> 00:32:01.549 stones into the very fabric of the mosque, the 00:32:01.549 --> 00:32:03.849 sultan was trying to tap into a continuous lineage 00:32:03.849 --> 00:32:07.230 of power that went back way before Islam, way 00:32:07.230 --> 00:32:10.029 before Christianity, to the very mythological 00:32:10.029 --> 00:32:13.329 roots of wisdom itself. It shows that the aesthetic 00:32:13.329 --> 00:32:15.589 space wasn't just about collecting pretty things. 00:32:15.690 --> 00:32:18.089 It was about curating powerful things. It was 00:32:18.089 --> 00:32:20.250 about surrounding yourself with objects that 00:32:20.250 --> 00:32:23.410 had a poppable esoteric charge to them. It really 00:32:23.410 --> 00:32:25.190 changes how you look at a historic building. 00:32:25.609 --> 00:32:27.710 You aren't just looking at a pile of dead rocks. 00:32:27.950 --> 00:32:30.450 You're looking at a carefully constructed battery 00:32:30.450 --> 00:32:33.450 of spiritual power, assembled from whatever potent 00:32:33.450 --> 00:32:35.730 parts they could find across the world. A battery 00:32:35.730 --> 00:32:37.890 of spiritual power. I really like that phrasing. 00:32:37.890 --> 00:32:39.829 That is exactly what they believed it was. So 00:32:39.829 --> 00:32:41.589 let's take a breath and look at everything we've 00:32:41.589 --> 00:32:44.250 covered. We have looked at ceramic bowls, silk 00:32:44.250 --> 00:32:48.329 textiles, holy oil, book bindings, a hybrid candlestick, 00:32:48.369 --> 00:32:51.609 misunderstood marble slabs, and magically charged 00:32:51.609 --> 00:32:54.900 architecture. And the one glaring common thread 00:32:54.900 --> 00:32:56.940 through all of it is that none of these things 00:32:56.940 --> 00:32:59.180 stayed in their assigned lane. None of them. 00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:02.079 And that perfectly brings us to the synthesis 00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:05.220 of this whole deep dive, the concept of the New 00:33:05.220 --> 00:33:07.019 Mediterranean. Let's bring it all together for 00:33:07.019 --> 00:33:09.720 the listener. What is the big overarching takeaway 00:33:09.720 --> 00:33:12.299 from all this microhistory? The big takeaway 00:33:12.299 --> 00:33:14.539 is that we fundamentally have to stop looking 00:33:14.539 --> 00:33:17.200 at maps of battles if we want to actually understand 00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:20.420 human history. The historians Horden and Purcell 00:33:20.420 --> 00:33:23.119 talk about this paradigm of fragmentation and 00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:25.819 connectivity. Yes, the politics of the Mediterranean 00:33:25.819 --> 00:33:28.200 were deeply fragmented. The religious dogmas 00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:31.359 were distinct and often violently opposed. But 00:33:31.359 --> 00:33:34.259 the connectivity, the relentless trade, the shared 00:33:34.259 --> 00:33:37.019 art, the unstoppable flow of beautiful objects 00:33:37.019 --> 00:33:40.319 was intense and constant. It's like looking at 00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:42.960 a huge dysfunctional family that violently argues 00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:45.180 at the dinner table about politics, but they 00:33:45.180 --> 00:33:47.180 still pass the salt and share the same food. 00:33:47.299 --> 00:33:50.549 Yes. That's exactly it. Islam and Christianity 00:33:50.549 --> 00:33:53.670 in the medieval Mediterranean were not just distant 00:33:53.670 --> 00:33:56.109 neighbors who occasionally waved or shot arrows 00:33:56.109 --> 00:33:58.390 across a tall fence. They were roommates. They 00:33:58.390 --> 00:34:00.250 literally shared the furniture. They wore each 00:34:00.250 --> 00:34:02.130 other's luxury clothes. They ate off each other's 00:34:02.130 --> 00:34:04.769 shiny plates. I am realizing that. It really 00:34:04.769 --> 00:34:07.670 humanizes the past, doesn't it? It strips away 00:34:07.670 --> 00:34:10.510 the grand, impersonal narrative of holy war. 00:34:10.670 --> 00:34:12.969 It does. It reminds us that looking closely at 00:34:12.969 --> 00:34:15.829 a single object, a bowl and a wall, a book on 00:34:15.829 --> 00:34:18.789 a desk, tells a much truer, more intimate story 00:34:18.789 --> 00:34:21.809 of human interaction than any royal treaty or 00:34:21.809 --> 00:34:24.949 grand declaration of war ever could. War is an 00:34:24.949 --> 00:34:28.409 event, but trade is a life. Art is a life. War 00:34:28.409 --> 00:34:31.559 is an event, but art is a life. That is profound. 00:34:31.719 --> 00:34:33.360 And I think we really need to highlight the significance 00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:35.139 of this research. Why does this matter for the 00:34:35.139 --> 00:34:37.340 field of religious studies today? It matters 00:34:37.340 --> 00:34:40.420 immensely because it absolutely proves that religions 00:34:40.420 --> 00:34:42.780 do not exist in hermetically sealed vacuums. 00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:45.900 They never have. We co -construct our visual 00:34:45.900 --> 00:34:48.820 and spiritual worlds. Christian art in this period 00:34:48.820 --> 00:34:51.000 looks the way it does directly because of Islamic 00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:54.880 art and vice versa. You cannot untangle the threads 00:34:54.880 --> 00:34:56.800 of one from the other without destroying the 00:34:56.800 --> 00:34:59.840 whole tapestry. It forces interfaith understanding. 00:35:00.110 --> 00:35:02.489 by showing that at our core, we've always been 00:35:02.489 --> 00:35:04.329 borrowing from each other to define ourselves. 00:35:04.690 --> 00:35:06.849 So if we look at the world today, we see a lot 00:35:06.849 --> 00:35:09.510 of incredibly rigid boundaries. We see a lot 00:35:09.510 --> 00:35:12.389 of intense us versus them rhetoric everywhere 00:35:12.389 --> 00:35:15.940 we look. We do. But this deep dive, to me, raises 00:35:15.940 --> 00:35:18.460 a really provocative final thought. Think about 00:35:18.460 --> 00:35:21.320 what we just learned. If a dense Byzantine theological 00:35:21.320 --> 00:35:24.519 decree literally defining the Trinity can end 00:35:24.519 --> 00:35:27.000 up lovingly protecting a Muslim sultan's tomb, 00:35:27.199 --> 00:35:29.940 and if a distinctly Muslim style of vaulting 00:35:29.940 --> 00:35:31.699 can be used to hold up the roof of a Christian 00:35:31.699 --> 00:35:34.400 church just because it looked cool, what modern 00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:36.139 boundaries that we currently think are rigid 00:35:36.139 --> 00:35:38.000 and permanent might actually be just as fluid? 00:35:38.219 --> 00:35:40.860 That is the ultimate question. If we looked at 00:35:40.860 --> 00:35:43.679 our own object today, You know, our phones, our 00:35:43.679 --> 00:35:46.500 clothes, our food, the media we consume instead 00:35:46.500 --> 00:35:49.860 of our angry politics. Would we see divided enemies 00:35:49.860 --> 00:35:52.500 or would we just see roommates sharing the same 00:35:52.500 --> 00:35:55.019 space? I think if we look close enough, we'd 00:35:55.019 --> 00:35:57.239 see a whole lot of roommates. I think so, too. 00:35:57.579 --> 00:35:59.980 We're far more connected by what we find beautiful 00:35:59.980 --> 00:36:02.840 than we are divided by what we believe. Expert 00:36:02.840 --> 00:36:05.199 speaker, thank you so much for guiding us through 00:36:05.199 --> 00:36:07.960 this material. This has been an incredible trip 00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:09.739 through history. It was my pleasure entirely. 00:36:10.159 --> 00:36:12.940 Indeed, beauty is a remarkably powerful thing. 00:36:13.139 --> 00:36:15.860 It truly is. Yeah. And to you, the listener, 00:36:16.039 --> 00:36:19.239 the next time you see a piece of art or an old 00:36:19.239 --> 00:36:21.119 building or even just a complex pattern on a 00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:23.880 rug in your house, take a second to look closer. 00:36:24.300 --> 00:36:27.260 Ask yourself, where did this actually come from? 00:36:27.750 --> 00:36:29.929 And who might have loved this exact same design 00:36:29.929 --> 00:36:32.590 centuries before me? You might be very surprised 00:36:32.590 --> 00:36:35.110 by the answer. Thanks for joining us on the Deep 00:36:35.110 --> 00:36:36.710 Dive. We will see you next time.