Hi, I'm Professor Iqbal Akhtar here at Florida
International University and here with the Interfreights
Project as part of our courses here at Florida
International. And we are honored today to have
Haridas, who's here from Sacred Vedic Arts. He'll
talk to us a little bit about his... where he
grew up and kind of his spiritual journey. We'd
love to learn more about you as a person, and
then we'll talk about kind of the work that you're
doing here in Miami. Thank you. First, thank
you so much for having me. I'm really honored.
So I'm the secretary for the Sacred Vedic Arts
Temple, and we're actually a pretty small, independent
temple. We've now been in existence for four
years, and we mostly focus on... the arts aspect
of our practice. A woman who founded our center,
she has been a painter and a monk for nearly
60 years. So we really work on promoting the
arts as well. Okay, so talk to us, before we
get into that, you said your temple, you're part
of the Hindu tradition, right? Yeah. Okay. So
should I give you some personal background first?
Yeah, please. Okay, so I was actually born into
a Jewish family. I was not born as a monk. I
was not born into a Hindu family. We were relatively
religious, especially for most Jewish families
in a more secular role. We were somewhat conservative,
but we went to shul during the weekends. We actually
didn't follow the Sabbath, which was interesting,
but we did our best to keep kosher. Went most
weekends. My dad served on the temple board.
That was a large part of my childhood until about
13 after my bar mitzvah. My parents got divorced
and my dad was the one who really kept the Judaism.
So afterwards, the Judaism and the religion really
kind of wasn't so strong and prominent within
my family. But I still really kept to it, especially
from a cultural side. So growing up on Long Island,
growing up in New York, you were either Italian
or you were Jewish. And that was it. And so I
knew everybody who I knew was Jewish. And so
I went to college. I went to Philadelphia. I
went to Drexel University. And all my friends
who I started hanging out with were also Jewish.
In fact, I joined a Jewish fraternity. So it
had no religious aspects to it. Like maybe we
would do Shabbat, but it was pretty rare. It
was much more of a cultural thing. I became much
more interested. in spirituality and religion
in general as I was preparing to leave college.
I was seeing around me, oh, my friends are leaving.
And, you know, we had these relationships, but
they weren't so deep. And so I started really
seeking an understanding of who I am, where can
I find meaning? And so I initially started going
to the local Chabad, which I just started on
campus. And I found actually a pretty nice connection
there. And what I'd really craved was to deeply
understand what we were doing. Even though I'd
been going to school, like the temple school
when I was young, I still didn't really understand
what it was about. And so I started seeking out
a rabbi to say, okay, who can I learn from? Who
can I learn Torah from? But nobody was available.
And eventually I was actually ready to leave
my job. and go to israel and go learn to be a
rabbi and thankfully i had a friend who looked
at me and said i think you're just running away
from your problems you need to actually confront
your problems and i was like oh you're right
i was experiencing a lot of anxiety you know
i'm suddenly out in the world working responsible
and couldn't behave like i did when i was in
college and was trying to understand who am i
and what am i doing in this world and so because
of that i said okay let's actually take it easy
And explore more of who I am. So because I hadn't
made a deep connection with the teachings of
the faith or really understood what it meant
beyond ritual, I didn't develop a deep connection.
And through the demands of work, I really started
losing that connection. But I really needed some
sort of practice. I was... I had a lot of anxiety.
I had a lot of stress. I was also depressed since
I was young, so I really needed something. And
from there, I started practicing yoga. And I
actually became very atheist because the yoga
practice was really about the body, really about
just deep, deep, deep meditation. And also looking
around at the world, I could see there were so
many problems in the world, but nothing was really
resolving. And to me, religion was ritual, at
best ritual. And then there was a lot of negative
connotations, especially in the media in those
days, and probably still pretty prevalent today.
Now, it's been four years as a monk, so I'm pretty
far from the media. And so as I started doing
this yoga practice, I reached pretty deep states
of meditation. And I'd actually really thought
that was the thing for me. I was really thought
like, okay, I'm just going to do this yoga practice,
do deeper, deeper meditation until, I guess,
until death. I didn't even really think that
death was a thing that could happen. But then
one day, I just suddenly started having these
thoughts of, I need something more. And at the
same exact time, a friend of mine in Philadelphia
was starting a yoga studio specifically for Bhagavad
Gita and Kirtan. I said, okay, I'm going to go
check that out. And the first kirtana really,
which is singing and chanting, especially the
Hare Krishna mantra. And as a group, it really
just struck me in the heart. It struck me in
the heart and I just kept going. Something about
it was just like so perfectly aligned with everything
also who I was, what I'd wanted from life. I
really connected, especially like even the way
it was packaged. The person who was doing the
kirtan was this ex -punk rocker. And I loved
punk rock. I loved all of it. And so it was just
so perfect. And we formed a little kirtan group.
So we would just go to this yoga studio once
a week. We would sing. We would chant. And it
was a lot of fun. So we'd all experiment. Most
of us had no idea what we were doing playing
instruments. It was incredibly DIY, but we laughed,
we joked, it was fun, and the community really
came together around it. Additionally, we studied
Bhagavad Gita, but at this point, I was still
pretty standoffish to any concept of God. In
fact, when I first started reading it, I remember
I just thought, God, what is this? What year
is this? Who's here looking at me and saying,
this is the way, this is the way, this is the
way? I said, this isn't for me, okay. But I still
liked the singing and chanting so much. I would
do it at home. I would go to our group. And that
became my spiritual practice. Then around 2016
was a major change. It really called everything
into question for my life, especially like what's
happening in the world and what part do I have
to play in it. And it felt like I couldn't really.
uh that i didn't know what my port my part was
and i didn't have power within that so i really
started exploring more and more who i was i started
traveling to asia more my friend and i would
get motorcycles and just travel we took a lot
of risks and i also started chanting a lot more
uh and i actually ended up leaving my job after
seven years and after continuous steady promotion,
to go to India. I thought I could teach yoga.
I'd been practicing for a while. I'd been teaching
for a while. Okay, I can always rely on this
if I need to make money. And I mostly went to
religious places. I wasn't really intentionally
religious. In fact, I laugh now because I don't
know, didn't know any of the culturally religious
things, but I just happened to be going. to the
religious sites and staying there and when i
left i actually left on a like a not great note
i'd actually had a pretty bad mental health crisis
while i was there and that forced me to come
back i started along the way i'd had a lot of
spiritual experiences to really make it clear
that okay something is really there And there
really is something for me to understand and
connect with. But when I left, I didn't really
know what it was. And I came back to Philadelphia
in 2019. And the groups weren't the same. The
relationships weren't the same. Things were changing.
Of course, then COVID happened. And even though
that was really difficult, I could tell something
really stupendous was happening for me. kind
of unfortunately gone back to doing the thing
I never wanted to do, which was work in an office
again. Interestingly, I'd gotten a much higher
pay raise. I was working many less hours, a much
less stressful job, but still I wasn't finding
satisfaction. And I really didn't want life to
be about you go to college, you get a job, you
have a family, you have kids, you get a promotion,
they go to college, you have grandkids, then
you die. Really, I wanted there to be something
more. And I really didn't want to just feel like,
okay, I'm sitting behind this desk waiting for
death. And so I had actually begun exploring
my Jewish roots again. But again, I never really
connected with a teacher. And I've been really
praying deeply for a teacher to come. And I was
open to whatever tradition. I eventually went
down to Guatemala, went to a kirtan and bhakti
yoga retreat. And there I really connected with
the followers of the faith who were there. They
were my age. They were fun. And something about
it was so vibrant, inspiring, and fulfilling
that I ended up telling my job, okay, I'm going
to take another week off. I was working at a
place where it was, you had unlimited paid vacation
days. It was one of those tech companies. And
when I was there, they said, if you're serious
about growing your spiritual practice, you should
go meet this woman, Shamarani Didi. She's opening
a temple in Miami. And so that was August. In
October, I flew down to see her. The temple had
opened two weeks before. And the whole time down,
I'm thinking, you know, will I have a spiritual
name? Maybe I'll get like spiritual initiation.
You know, maybe this is what I've been praying
for. This is the community I've wanted to live
in. Things that I had thoughts I hadn't had before.
And it was a really, it was a really mystical
experience for me meeting her. I'd also been
reading a lot of the books of the followers from
of Neem Karoli Baba, especially Krishna Das,
who's now a famous Kirtania. I was inspired by
how when he had met his guru, he was able to.
give up everything and just go and be with them.
And when I met her, I had this feeling of like,
wow, such a great energy just being around. And
I felt so much at home just walking into the
temple. And one of the first things she did is
she said to me, would you like a name? I said,
okay. She said, okay, your name's Haridas. And
I've learned now that it's rare that she gives
a person a name that quickly. And what does Haridas
mean? Haridas means servant of God. Hari is a
name for God. Hari means he takes things that
we think are good for us but are actually getting
in our way so that we can then get the thing
that we truly want. And Das means servant. I'm
actually technically Haridas Das. Haridas refers
to a saint who lived in India in the 1500s. So
then she asked me when I'm moving down. It was
literally the first question she asked me. And
I ended up moving down two months later. I got
home, told my job, either you move me to Florida
or I quit. They said, okay. They gave me a huge
raise, huge promotion, transferred me down. And
still six months later, I left my job so that
I could serve the temple full time. To me, it
was a deep answering of my prayers. of this was
a person who was really following the path a
person who i could tell had all the great qualities
in full and didn't have like lust anger greed
pride jealousy or illusion i remember when i
like as i was leaving she was praying in front
of uh the altar and i've just felt such power
that i've never felt from another person praying
before and so being around her just inspired
me so much to be able to actually start letting
go of the things that weren't serving me like
i i didn't like holding on to so much money i
didn't like uh having to i didn't like working
a job that wasn't giving me any sort of fulfillment
i really wanted to serve this temple especially
uh to help it grow to me it was like steve jobs
steve jobs was working in a garage. Him and Steve
Wozniak building it to computers and thinking
these people, they were willing to do it for
an ideal to make money, make technological advancement.
Why can't we do this for spirituality? And so
I figured like that was a good enough reason
to take the risk. I left my job. I eventually
gave all of the money I had in savings and my
car as well. And now I wear pink. This means
I've taken a vow of renunciation. It means I'm
vowing that for the rest of my life, I will be
celibate, no drugs, no intoxication, no meat
-eating, no gambling, and will commit myself
to developing spiritually. I'm what's called
a brahmachari, which means that I'm the student
of the guru. So I live purely just to learn.
and to learn through service to that bonafide
medium of spirituality. Interesting. Have you
tried to explore your Jewish heritage at all
since you've taken three of ours? Not since,
but I did beforehand. You did beforehand, okay.
I did the whole, like, ancestry. Yeah, yeah.
Went to every single little town that we came
from. Okay. Do you still feel Jewish? Kind of,
I think. I think a large part of our philosophy
is that we aren't these bodies, we're spirit
souls. So culturally, yes, I still feel Jewish.
And I also still have these thoughts. Like, wow,
it would have been so much easier for my parents
if I had been able to go the Jewish route. But
it just didn't manifest. And my parents and I
now actually have the best relationship we've
ever had. So in a way, I culturally still feel
Jewish. But not too much. Okay. Why the color
pink? It stands for saturation in love of Godhead.
Okay. So our lineage specifically is devoted
to Krishna. From our understanding, Krishna is
the supreme personality of Godhead. God has many
names. Many names, but still one in truth. And
so we're worshiping Krishna. Krishna is like
God when he's on his day off or when he goes
back to his family. You know, he isn't necessarily
a CEO. He still has all the capacity, but he's
actually with his friends and family. And so
his most dear beloved is Radha. And so this color
has to do with Radha and her love for him. I
know you have an interest in interfaith dialogue
and sort of connecting across religious traditions.
Talk to us a little bit about that interest and
sort of how that, I know you talked a little
bit about your background, but what is your community's
interest and sort of connection with other religious
traditions? Well, from what I've learned from
our books, there's, we don't see it as like,
hey, we're, it's a different God. It's a different
thing. It's one moon, different phases, different
angles of vision. He appears in different time,
places and circumstances for people in order
to grow in the way that's most fit for their
heart. And so to me, it's where we're in the
same family. We're striving towards the same
goal. And for me, what I saw in 2016 and 2020
really calls for a need for some place of sanity
and some place of... regular conversation. Like
we can have regular conversation. We can come
together and we don't have to fight despite having
differences. And that's to me, I see a major
place for us as faith leaders to, to guide, guide
the next generation forward and how just we can
engage with one another. So through the sacred
video cards, what are, what type of effect are
you trying to have here? in in miami through
sacred video guards they've tried our main goal
is really to awaken uh the dormant love of godhead
within each person okay not necessarily not to
convert into like say now you're part of our
faith but to uh kind of be a space and be a container
and be a vehicle for one to have their natural
propensity for love arise And so being here,
living in this society, what do you see as the
major obstacles to that happening? What are the
major challenges that people have in order to
be able to come to that realization? The bodily
conception of life. The conception that I am
this body and everything in relation to this
body is I, me, and mine keeps us from being able
to... live deeper on the level of the heart.
It's also like it creates so much tension and
fight when I'm thinking, hey, I'm the Jewish
guy. You're the Muslim guy. Can we get along?
Whereas when we're really fixed in our own practice,
we can see through that and understand the person
who's in front of us. There are real things,
real tangible things that need to be crossed.
But as we can develop the understanding of who
we are at our core, it naturally releases the
feelings of lust, anger, greed, pride, envy,
and jealousness from one's being. So we can at
least engage with one another from a platform
of understanding. Have you found resistance to
that message here as you kind of have? try to
engage with other people in Miami? Honestly,
I don't think we've put the message forward enough.
Okay. We're so grassroots. Okay. We're just now
getting like, hey, we're settled as a temple.
Okay, we can do it. Okay. Versus we're just getting
into how do we develop our messaging, how to
develop our programming, how do we best reach
people. Okay. Wonderful. I mean, when you were
doing your, you know, when you were kind of doing
your spiritual search, did you look into any
other religious traditions aside from these versions
of like either Judaism or sort of Hinduism? I
mean, like Buddhism or other faith traditions
either? Little bits into Buddhism. Like, especially
like Tibetan Buddhism seemed pretty cool. Sure.
fun to read i didn't i didn't totally get the
tibetan book of the dead okay from what i understand
it's kind of books of book of prayers right um
i did a little bit with like south american shamanism
because i was like the cool thing to do sure
um but i didn't get so such a deep understanding
so i mean do you feel that you're um do you think
that this is your final phase of spirituality
or do you think that there might be another phase
that comes after this i hope so i mean i i did
take the vow for like lifetime okay uh so i'm
hopeful what i like also about our philosophy
about our practice is that it's there's like
a spiritual science to it there's like a there's
progressive stages to it and then thankfully
it isn't like a closed box like you must do this
right but it's like hey if you do this this is
what you should expect. Right, right. Yeah, because
even within Judaism, I know there's like Kabbalah
and there's some other sort of mystical sort
of sciences as well, spiritual sciences. I don't
know much about it, to be honest with you. But
that's something that I saw. Because I was recently,
I had taken a trip to Israel and sort of, it
was very interesting to see kind of like the
diversity of... religious experiences there it
was just it was really mind -boggling honestly
like the types the variations of Judaism that
exist and that's been very interesting you know
also doing this sort of interfaith dialogue so
we have this interfaith project between Muslim
and Jewish students here on campus after October
7th and trying to create new connections I think
and one of the things that we're trying to do
with the students is trying to get them to connect
with each other on their lived reality and spiritual
practice so what does it mean to be a person
of faith living in a secular society what are
the challenges that you have you know vis -a
-vis the majority things like that and those
are also ways to be able to find commonalities
rather than getting right into the heart of the
political situation which has to be very very
divisive and very challenging so i think well
that's kind of one of the things that we're trying
that's one part of it the other part is trying
to work with communities so trying to have communities
or groups of people connect with each other and
kind of having a long -term relationship with
each other as a way of being able to affect change
and sort of openness to other religious traditions
I think one of the things that's remarkable about
Hinduism also is that it's, as a religious tradition,
I know your tradition has its own perspective,
but I think Hinduism, kind of more broadly speaking,
it tends to, I don't know how to put it, it tends
to be, and this is kind of paradoxical, But it
kind of embraces everything. And then there's
also a nothingness as well. And that allows a
lot of space for, historically at least, for
engaging with other religious traditions as well.
So I think it's kind of one of the reasons why,
for instance, you know, like Christianity, when
there was missions during the colonial period
to India, and there were no major conversions.
Because people are like, all right, that's fine.
You want another person? All right, we'll just
add Jesus to the group. And that wasn't a threat
to the religious tradition. It has the ability
to encompass so much over millennia. So I think
it's quite a powerful tradition. I like that
there are people in India who, there's churches
and they just do puja to Jesus. It's the same.
Right. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's one of
the powerful things about the Hindu tradition
at its best. I mean, there's also kind of the
political version that's not so kind to people,
unfortunately. But especially, I think, the spirituality,
you know, it also goes along with, like you were
talking about a little bit earlier, it goes along
with people's own... inclinations and so it's
not like there's a one law for everybody but
it could be that you know you are inclined towards
religion through through academic learning or
sort of through sort of the that you know and
so there's a whole path of non sort of meditation
or if you're interested more in sort of the popular
devotional you have the bhakti sort of tradition
so there are many different traditions that exist
and um and so there's a lot of adaptation that's
sort of possible according to one's own sort
of personal inclinations as well you know yeah
what i what i find interesting within hinduism
is that the the conception of the transmigration
of the soul is so key to understanding the progression
of one's soul in its development and so like
in bhagavad -gita there's karma yoga, gyan yoga,
and bhakti yoga. And the understanding that we
receive in our lineage is that it's not that
it's one or the other, it's that it's progressive
steps along the way. For us, so we're technically
Gaudiya Vaishnavas, which means that we believe
in a supreme person and we follow the precepts
from the golden avatar, Gaudiya. And so... What
we learn is that our goal, really actually our
process to achieve our goal is shudha bhakti,
the pure bhakti. The goal itself is pure love
for the Supreme. And the process we enact to
get there is shudha bhakti. And it's that not
every person is qualified or ready. to perform
shuddha bhakti so that's why we have karma gyan
and bhakti because some of us like i need to
be doing work in the world i'm from new york
my parents literally it's work is life you live
to work and so thankfully thankfully our center
and our teacher and our tradition having been
uh having really been born in the west through
uh this great saint shuddha prabhupada he just
started engaging people in this massive global
movement that our tradition is really one of
just engaging the person where they are and then
the process itself naturally removing what's
called anarthas or unwanted things, unwanted
habits from the heart. Sure. How are, I mean,
I don't know enough about kind of the whole cosmology
of the Hindu tradition, but how are, Traditionally,
Hinduism has also been an ethnic religion. You're
generally born into it. How are people seen?
Like, how are you seen by other Hindus within
the tradition? We're actually like really good
friends with the more traditional Hindus. Okay.
Like within our group, the Gaudiya Vaishnavas
are actually probably now predominantly Indian.
It was like the movement really started in...
really be like burst open that is in the west
in the 1960s so there are a lot of westerners
uh they actually like really well then mixed
with the indians in india and then the movement
bursted in india as well so at this point there's
more uh ethnically indian folks who are godia
vaishnavas uh and what i'm finding here is actually
most in like they still actually really respect
me as though i'm like a renunciate within within
the order and um what i what i appreciate about
hinduism as i'm as i'm learning is that even
though you know i'm a godia vaishnav whereas
they might be a shy white it's still an understanding
of like wow you were a sadhu you are devoting
yourself to god yeah that's very um yes it's
very interesting to see um So is your movement
the same as the Hare Krishna movement? Yeah.
I mean, it is, right? So it's like a part of
that larger movement. We're the same branch,
different branch, same creed. Okay. All right.
Okay. What is the ultimate vision for the world
from your tradition? So I know, like, for instance,
like, the Buddhist tradition would be, you would
have, like, you know, the, at least from the
Mahayana tradition, we have kind of Avalokiteshvara
as kind of one of the bodhisattvas, and this
idea is that ultimately we aim towards the liberation
of all beings, right? What is the ultimate aim
in your tradition? Your hope for humanity. Our
hope for humanity on a... It's a return to God
consciousness. Not necessarily to our path. What
we understand is that we're in something called
the Kali Yuga. The last age, yeah. It's a cycle.
It's the age of quarrel and hypocrisy. We just
started. It lasts another 427 ,000 years. The
idea is also that the world ends and then it
begins again. Right. We also happen, our faith
as Gaudias, we happen to believe that this is
actually the Danya Kali. So actually the very
fortunate age of Kali where the Lord himself
incarnated to give this, the holy name, not just
as the mantra, but he actually deeply infused
it with all the potencies available, including
extremely deep. loving relationship. So in all
Kali Yugas, the process for deliverance of one's
soul, of transcending the material platform,
is the chanting of the holy name. But chanting
the holy name doesn't necessarily always have
the potency and the devotional sentiment, devotional
mood in it. This age of Kali happens to be a
special one for that. It only happens once every
8 .6 million years. Yeah, it's once every 8 .6
million years. And so our vision is that every
person will be, and our understanding is that
because of his appearance, at some point within
this age of Kali, everybody will be just naturally
awakening to their love of God. In your tradition,
then also, is there a, in awaiting of a final
avatar, like a Kalki avatar at the end of time?
For us Goryas, no. Like we actually, I think,
I don't know if we actually think Kalki is or
isn't coming in this Kali Yuga because of the
appearance of... lord chitanya the golden avatar
okay but typically in in a typical kali yuga
the understanding is at the end kalki comes and
obliterates right but uh from my understanding
that's not supposed to happen in this age of
kali i'm pretty far from like the like that levels
of knowing we're also like we're very focused
on one point of devotion okay because that's
yeah we're so I know, but I also, at least I
have some sort of intellectual understanding,
but actual knowledge, that's a bit beyond me.
Yeah, no problem. And what do you hope to do
in the next few years with regards to this temple
and interfaith work more generally? Well, with
this temple, I hope to do a lot more promotion
of Didi's artwork. We did the first exhibition
of hers ever. It's been 60 years. She's literally
like extremely renowned. And it's the first time
she ever did a gallery exhibition. So really
amazing exhibition. We want to do it more often.
We also want to expand into... modern experiences
like immersive art experiences. That is a pretty
large goal. And then as far as interfaith work
goes, I'd like to see more connection with students
on an emotional level. You and I are planning
this panel, and what I see is if it goes well
and continues to grow, so we do more and are
able to talk more on personal experience. For
example, when I talk to students, they talk about
the importance of death and how death has affected
their lives. And my thinking is, how great would
it be for people in the cloth to be able to speak
about how death shaped their lives? Not about,
this is what I believe about death. That's what
he believes about death. But like, how have I
personally been affected? Yeah, death is a shared
experience. Absolutely. And it's a very, you
know, I think it's one of the things that...
American culture tends to be very uncomfortable
with, but it's something that it's very grounding,
I think, to the human experience. So, yeah, I
think that's birth, death. These things are very,
very powerful ways of connecting us across traditions.
Yeah, absolutely. Wonderful. Well, thank you
so much, Haridas Das, for your time and for coming
on our series. And we look forward to working
with you on the projects in the future.